Military Review

The Russian army in the battles at Tarutino and at Maloyaroslavets

208

E. V. Kamynina. "To battle"


In September 1812, having completed its famous flanking march, the Russian army found itself on the territory of the modern Kaluga region. The state of the army was by no means brilliant. And it was not only the big losses that were natural for such a battle. The morale of the Russian soldiers and officers was difficult. Until the last minute, no one wanted to believe that Moscow would be surrendered to the enemy. And the movement of troops through the empty city before our eyes left the most difficult impression on all its participants.

In a letter to Alexander I dated September 4, Kutuzov reported:

"All the treasures, the arsenal, and almost all property, both state-owned and private, have been removed from Moscow."

In fact, the values ​​that were left in the city can shake any imagination. It just hurts to read the endless list weapons and equipment, which included 156 guns, 74 974 guns, 39 846 sabers, 27 119 gun shells. The situation was even worse with the priceless military relics. The French got 608 old Russian banners and more than 1 standards, which, of course, was a terrible shame. The amount and value of food, industrial goods, treasures and works of art left in the city is impossible not only to calculate, but even to imagine. But most of all, the army was shocked by the fact that about 000 thousand wounded were left in the city (many said they were abandoned). A.P. Ermolov recalled:

"My soul was torn apart by the groan of the wounded, left at the mercy of the enemy."

But before that Barclay de Tolly, in his retreat from the western borders of the empire, "on his way he did not leave behind not only a single cannon, but not even a single cart"(Butenev) and"not a single wounded"(Caulaincourt).

It is not surprising that Kutuzov left Moscow "so that, as long as possible, not to meet with anyone"(Testimony of A. B. Golitsyn). He already knew that the troops called him “The darkest prince"(FV Rostopchin and A. Ya. Bulgakov write about this). He also knew that many

"They rip off their uniforms, not wanting to serve after the vilified surrender of Moscow." (certificate of S.I.Maevsky - chief of Kutuzov's office)

It is difficult to remember this, however, as L. Feuerbach, now half-forgotten, said,

"A look into the past is always a prick in the heart."

The words of General P.I.Batov will also be in place:

«History do not need to correct, otherwise she will have nothing to learn. "

As Publius Cyrus rightly remarked,

"Today is a pupil of yesterday."

And Vasily Klyuchevsky liked to say:

"History is not a teacher, but a warden ... She does not teach anything, but only punishes for ignorance of the lessons."

The situation in the Tarutino camp


After the battle at Borodino, Kutuzov sent the news of the victory to St. Petersburg. And therefore, instead of reinforcements, they sent him a field marshal's baton and 100 thousand rubles from the capital. Kutuzov still had 87 thousand soldiers under his command, 14 thousand Cossacks and 622 guns, but their combat effectiveness raised doubts: “Troops in decay", - stated NN Raevsky sadly.

The situation at the headquarters of the commander-in-chief was no better. A. P. Ermolov writes about “endless intrigue", N. N. Raevsky - about"intrigues of parties, envy, anger and selfishness”, DS Dokhturov - about the disgust that inspired him with everything that happened in the camp. It was about this time that A. K. Tolstoy hinted in his parody "History of the Russian State from Gostmysl to Timashev":

"Seemingly, well, lower, you can't sit in a hole."

But the general situation was that time worked for the Russians. Napoleon was inactive, hoping for an early peace negotiation, and the French army was decaying before our very eyes, looting in Moscow.


D. Kardovsky. The French in Moscow abandoned by residents in September 1812

And the mobilization system of Russia finally started working, and new units began to approach Kutuzov's army. A month later, the number of Russian troops increased to 130 thousand. The regiments of the militia also approached, the number of which reached 120 thousand. However, everyone understood that it was possible to use the formations of the militia in the battle against the Great Army of Napoleon only in a very desperate situation. The outcome of their clash with veterans Ney or Davout was too predictable. And therefore, these hastily assembled, poorly organized and practically useless in military terms, the detachments were used only for economic work or carried out rear service.

One way or another, both the soldiers and officers of the Russian army gradually calmed down, the bitterness of retreat and despondency subsided, giving way to anger and a desire for revenge. The headquarters remained a weak spot, where the generals continued to squabble among themselves. Kutuzov could not stand Bennigsen and was jealous of Barclay de Tolly, Barclay did not respect both, calling them “weak old people”And Ermolov did not like Konovnitsyn.

Precisely because of the general squabbles, the battle near the Chernishna (Tarutinskoye) river did not end with a complete triumph of the Russian army. If you look at events objectively, you will inevitably have to admit that this was a day of wasted opportunities. Due to the intrigues of the top military leadership, the Russian troops were unable to build on their success and achieve complete victory. General P. P. Konovnitsin (future Minister of War) believed that Muratu was “given the opportunity to retreat in order with little loss" and that's why "no one deserves a reward for this deed". Bennigsen then sent a letter to Alexander I, in which he accused Kutuzov of passivity and inaction. The emperor, by the way, did not understand and forwarded this report ... to Kutuzov. He gladly read it to Bennigsen, and the relationship between these commanders deteriorated completely and irrevocably.

But the Battle of Tarutino was the first breath of fresh air that made the Russians believe in themselves and the possible success of the campaign. After this, in general, insignificant victory, the Russian army, like a phoenix, rose from the ashes. The French, on the other hand, for the first time doubted the successful completion of this campaign, and Napoleon came to the conclusion that instead of peace offers he would receive a difficult war far from home.

But let's not get ahead.

Tarutino battle



Peter von Hess, Battle of Tarutino on October 6 (18), 1812, 1847

So, the Russian command knew that the vanguard of the Great Army of Napoleon, under the command of Joachim Murat and numbering about 20-22 thousand people, came to Chernishna on September 12 (24) and camped by this river. The place for the camp was chosen quite well, on both sides it was covered by the rivers (Nara and Chernishna), on the third - by the forest. Both armies were well aware of the whereabouts of the enemy, and, according to Yermolov, the officers of the sides often talked peacefully at the front posts. The French were complacent, confident in the imminent end of the war and a triumphant return home. The Russians, being inactive after the loss of Moscow, also did not rule out the possibility of concluding a peace.

But in Petersburg they expected decisive action from Kutuzov, and therefore it was decided to test their strength by striking a blow at the obviously weaker parts of the French avant-garde. Moreover, they were too far from the main forces of their army, and there was nowhere to expect help. The disposition of the attack was made by Generals Leonti Bennigsen and Karl Toll.

Many people know about Bennigsen - a participant in the assassination of Emperor Paul I and the commander of the Russian army in the battle that ended "in a draw" with Napoleon's troops at Preussisch-Eylau. Let's say a few words about Karl Fedorovich Tolya. This was an "Estlandian German" who turned out to be the only colonel admitted to the famous Council in Fili (9 more generals were present). True, there was also Captain Kaisarov, but he did not have the right to vote and performed the functions of a secretary.


A. Kivshenko. "Military Council in Fili in 1812", 1882

KF Toll voted for the abandonment of Moscow - together with Barclay de Tolly and Count Osterman-Tolstoy (Kutuzov's nephew). He is also known for his description of the Battle of Borodino, in which for some reason he shifted all events by about 2 hours ahead. Later, he would become famous for his decisive actions in favor of Nicholas I during the Decembrists' speech, and on September 7, 1831, he would replace the wounded Paskevich during the storming of Warsaw. Will become the count and chief manager of the railways. So he was an adequate, experienced and well-deserved military commander. There are no grounds to suspect him of dishonest performance of his official duties.

The Russian army in the battles at Tarutino and at Maloyaroslavets
Karl Wilhelm von Toll, portrait by George Doe from the War Gallery of the Winter Palace

Russian troops were to strike in two columns. It was assumed that the first of them, led by Bennigsen, would bypass Murat's left flank. The second, which Miloradovich was appointed to command, was supposed to attack the right flank of the French at this time.

On October 4 (16), Kutuzov signed the disposition of the upcoming battle. But then the oddities began. Ermolov (chief of staff of the army) suddenly left the camp in an unknown direction. Later it turned out that he went to a dinner party at one of the surrounding estates. Many contemporaries believed that in this way Ermolov tried to "substitute" the General Konovnitsyn, whom he did not like. As a result, command and control of the troops was disrupted, and many formations did not receive the necessary instructions in time. The next day, not a single Russian division was found in the designated places. Kutuzov was furious and "let off steam", insulting the first two officers that caught his eye. One of them (Lieutenant Colonel Eichen) then left the army. Ermolova Kutuzov ordered “expel from service”, But immediately canceled his decision.

Thus, the battle began a day later. However, this was for the best. The fact is that Murat learned in time about the plans of the Russian commander-in-chief, and on the day of the alleged attack, his troops were brought to full readiness. Not waiting for the attack of the Russians, the French lost their vigilance.

So, on October 6 (18), only the Life-Cossack units of Adjutant General V.V. Orlov-Denisov appeared at the French camp.


V.V. Orlov-Denisov, portrait by George Doe from the Military Gallery of the Winter Palace

On this occasion, Kutuzov later told Miloradovich:

"You have everything on your tongue to attack, but you do not see that we do not know how to make difficult maneuvers."

Without waiting for other formations of his column, Orlov-Denisov made an independent decision to attack the enemy.

This is how the Battle of Tarutino began, which is sometimes called the "Battle of Chernishny", and in French literature one can find the name Bataille de Winkowo ("the battle at Vinkovo" - after the name of the nearest village).

The French were taken by surprise, and this blow came as a complete surprise to them.

Many have read about this attack in Leo Tolstoy's novel War and Peace:

“One desperate, frightened cry of the first Frenchman who saw the Cossacks, and everything that was in the camp, undressed, sleepy, threw guns, rifles, horses, and ran anywhere. If the Cossacks had pursued the French, not paying attention to what was behind and around them, they would have taken Murat and everything that was there. The bosses wanted this. But it was impossible to budge the Cossacks when they got to the booty and prisoners. "

As a result of the loss of the pace of the attack, the French came to their senses, lined up for battle and met the approaching Russian jaeger regiments with such dense fire that, having lost several hundred people, including General Baggovut, the infantry turned back. This was the end of the Tarutino battle. In vain L. Bennigsen asked Kutuzov for troops for a massive attack of the retreating enemy. Field Marshal said:

"They did not know how to take Murat alive in the morning and arrive at the place on time, now there is nothing to do."

Moreover, Kutuzov also stopped the movement of Miloradovich's column, which could take part in the pursuit of the retreating French. As a result, the swing turned out to be "a ruble", and the blow - "half a penny": of the entire Russian army, only 12 thousand people participated in the battle (7 thousand cavalry and 5 thousand infantry), Murat in perfect order withdrew his units to Voronovo. Nevertheless, it was a victory, the losses were significantly less than the French, there were prisoners and trophies. The army was inspired and returned to their camp to the music of the bands and songs.

The retreat of Napoleon's army from Moscow


Moscow, which had burned out by that time, had long been of no value to the Great Army. Napoleon's marshals tried to persuade the emperor to withdraw the rapidly degrading and losing discipline troops to a more convenient position. Napoleon refused, arguing that Moscow was the best place for peace negotiations, the proposal of which he was eagerly awaiting from Alexander I. Finally, he made a principled decision on the withdrawal of troops, but hesitated with the choice of the date. Upon learning of the attack of his vanguard, Napoleon realized that there would be no negotiations. After that, he announced the decision to return to the plan of a two-stage war, which he himself had developed earlier, which envisaged, after defeating the Russian army in a general battle, retreating to winter positions and continuing the campaign next year.

On October 8 (20), the French army began its movement from Moscow. At Kutuzov's headquarters, they found out about this only on October 11 (23).

Most of all, Kutuzov then feared that Napoleon would go to Petersburg. The same was very much feared in the capital of the empire. In a letter dated October 2 (old style), Alexander I wrote to Field Marshal:

"It will remain your responsibility if the enemy is able to dispatch a significant corps to Petersburg ... for with the army entrusted to you ... you have every means to ward off this new misfortune."

Therefore, Kutuzov "shed tears of joy"Not because Napoleon left Moscow (there was not the slightest doubt that the French would leave Moscow sooner or later), but because he learned the direction of his movement - to Maloyaroslavets.

Battle of Maloyaroslavets


The battle at Maloyaroslavets on both sides was an improvisation of pure water, took place without a plan and was a cruel "meat grinder". The result was the almost complete destruction of this city and heavy losses of both the Russians and the French.


Peter von Hess. "The battle on October 12 (24), 1812 at Maloyaroslavets." 1851 g.

On October 9, Kutuzov received a message from the commander of one of the partisan detachments, Major General I.S.Dorokhov, with a request to send reinforcements to attack the French units that entered the village of Fominskoye (now the city of Naro-Fominsk). They were the cavalry units of Philippe Ornano and the infantry of Jean-Baptiste Brusier. That day, no one suspected that these were only the vanguard units of the entire French army. Dokhturov's corps was sent to help Dorokhov, who after a long journey came to the village of Aristovo (Kaluga region). On the night of October 11, the commander of another partisan detachment, Captain A.N.Seslavin, arrived at Dokhturov's location. On the eve he was taken prisoner by a French non-commissioned officer, who reported that the French had left Moscow and the entire Great Army was moving towards Maloyaroslavets. But Seslavin did not know that Napoleon himself was in Fominsky at that time.


"An important discovery of the partisan Seslavin." Painting by an unknown artist, 1820s

Dokhturov sent a courier to Kutuzov and moved his corps to Maloyaroslavets.

On October 12 (24), the combat units of this corps entered the battle with the Delzon division (which was the first of the French to start the Battle of Borodino). In this battle, Delson died, and the already familiar partisan, Major General I. S. Dorokhov, received a serious wound, from the consequences of which he later died.

Napoleon at that time was in Borovsk, from where, having learned about the battle of Maloyaroslavets, he arrived in the village of Gorodnya, located a few kilometers from this city.

In the afternoon, they approached Maloyaroslavets and immediately brought into battle the corps of General Raevsky and two divisions from the corps of Davout, a fierce battle ensued, in which about 30 thousand Russians and 20 thousand French participated. The city passed from hand to hand, according to various sources, from 8 to 13 times, out of 200 houses only 40 survived, the streets were littered with corpses. The data on the losses of the parties vary in the reports of different authors, but we can safely say that they turned out to be approximately equal.

As a result, the city remained with the French, and Napoleon sent a message to Paris about a new victory. Kutuzov, however, withdrew his troops 2,7 km to the south, took up a new position - and also sent the news of the victory to St. Petersburg.


V. Vereshchagin. "In Gorodnya - to break through or retreat?"

On October 14, both the Russian and French armies almost simultaneously retreated from Maloyaroslavets: like balls with the same mass, which received impulses of equal magnitude, but with different directions in a collision, the enemy armies rolled back in different directions.

The Russian army withdrew to Detchin and Polotnyanoy Zavod. People from Kutuzov's entourage claimed that he was ready to retreat further. His words convey:

"The fate of Moscow awaits Kaluga."

And Napoleon issued a strange order, which contained the following lines:

"We went to attack the enemy ... But Kutuzov retreated in front of us ... and the emperor decided to turn back."

Russian and French historians still argue about the Battle of Maloyaroslavets. Russian authors say that Kutuzov managed to block the enemy army's path to Kaluga or even further to Ukraine. Some French argue that while part of Napoleon's troops fought at Maloyaroslavets, the rest of the army continued to move towards Smolensk, and thus managed to break away a considerable distance.

Kutuzov then really "lost" the French army (like Napoleon the Russian after the Battle of Borodino). It was possible to catch up with her only at Vyazma, when Miloradovich's detachment went to the Old Smolensk road, but he did not have enough forces to prevent the movement of the troops of Davout, Beauharnais and Ponyatovsky. He nevertheless entered the battle and sent a messenger to Kutuzov asking for help. But the field marshal, faithful to the tactics of the "golden bridge", again refused to send reinforcements. This is how the famous "parallel march" began, which ultimately destroyed the French army, but at the same time completely weakened and literally brought the Russian army to exhaustion and loss of fighting qualities. F. Stendhal had the right to say that

"The Russian army arrived in Vilna not in better shape than the French."

And the Russian general Levenstern directly stated that his soldiers “misery no less than the enemy».

Returning to the battle for Maloyaroslavets (which Kutuzov put on a par with the Battle of Borodino), we can say that it did not bring a decisive victory to either side. But it was about him that Segur later told the veterans of the Great Army:

"Do you remember this ill-fated battlefield, where the conquest of the world stopped, where 20 years of continuous victories crumbled to dust, where the great collapse of our happiness began?"

At Maloyaroslavets, Napoleon for the first time in his entire career as a commander did not dare to give a general battle. And for the first time he retreated from the unbroken enemy. Academician Tarle had every reason to assert that the true retreat of the French army began not from Moscow, but from Maloyaroslavets.
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  1. gsev
    gsev 12 May 2021 04: 41
    +4
    The data on the losses of the parties vary in the reports of different authors, but we can safely say that they turned out to be approximately equal.
    Didn't Napoleon's headquarters report to him about the losses at Maloyaroslavets?
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 May 2021 09: 02
      +9
      gsev, you can report something like this: "the enemy has big losses, but we also suffered losses. According to preliminary data, the following were killed: Colonel S. Captain V, sergeants such and such. When we will clarify and report separately."
      They say that Napoleon knew precisely his veterans with whom he began his career as a commander, and after the battles he was primarily interested in them.
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 05: 13
    +9
    ... Kutuzov hated Bennigsen

    The most surprising thing in this story is that Mikhail Illarionovich personally asked the latter to return to the active army.
    Yours!
    1. depressant
      depressant 12 May 2021 11: 17
      +7
      Dear Vladislav! Happy Birthday! love
      Please accept my sincere wishes --- endless well-being in your home and lasting family happiness! love good drinks )))))
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 12: 18
        +3
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, thank you very much for your kind words, I'm flattered!
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 12 May 2021 11: 27
      +8
      Vlad, hello and my congratulations on the DR! Best wishes from me and all the cats in our area! smile love drinks drinks drinks
      1. VLR
        12 May 2021 11: 34
        +6
        Vladislav, I also wish you happy birthday, I wish you happiness, good luck and health.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 12: 24
          +3
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you very much!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 15: 43
            +3
            Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you very much!

            You answered Valery, but we counted ... laughing We are here with Mikado sideways to the bowl .. (here, he even looked up from the assembly of Fieseler Storch, in order to congratulate you!) ... Vladislav, Happy Birthday! drinks Happiness and health to you and your whole family! Special greetings to Sonya! yes And yet I remind you about the sewn shoulder straps! wink
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 18: 44
              +1
              Hi Mikado too!

              Nikolay, thank you too! I answer in fits and starts, I blundered a little!
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 18: 43
          +1
          Valery thank you very much for your congratulations and forgive that comrades turned around with "gifts" in the comments to your article!
          Regards, Vlad!
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 12: 23
        +3
        Best wishes to the Sea Cat from the Land Cat !!!
        Thank you Uncle Kostya !!!!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 12 May 2021 12: 24
          +2
          Always happy! smile soldier drinks
      3. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 12: 31
        +4
        This is the best greeting card I've ever seen! )))
        Ears, ears - butterfly wings! And the elves flutter! It is from such cuteness that the quiet happiness of our everyday life is formed. I, of course, do not mean elves, but the joy that a worthy person has a Birthday ...
        Vladislav, I raise a glass of coffee to your health! Prosit! drinks ))))
    3. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 12 May 2021 13: 07
      +2
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      ... Kutuzov hated Bennigsen

      The most surprising thing in this story is that Mikhail Illarionovich personally asked the latter to return to the active army.
      Yours!

      Lots of love and money!
      Happy Birthday! fellow
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 16: 31
        0
        Thank you very much Alebert!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 12 May 2021 18: 08
          +1
          Dear Vladislav, and now in person, and ... hopefully, nice !?

          Best wishes buddy.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 May 2021 18: 46
            +1
            Thank you very much !!!
    4. Tavrik
      Tavrik 12 May 2021 17: 45
      +2
      Mikhailo Larionych is an old apparatchik and a courtier ... why does he need extra enemies at court?
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 12 May 2021 05: 26
    +8
    But it's true, the aphorism about a prick in the heart is good.

    And at the same time, "What will pass will be nice."

    And Teffi and the team successfully reported: “Napoleon suffered Victories. In the end, Napoleon suffered his last victory at the Berezina and rode off to Paris "(c).
  4. VLR
    12 May 2021 07: 25
    +11
    Have you ever wondered how this campaign would have gone if Kutuzov continued to wait and did not attack Murat at Chernishny? If Napoleon left Moscow later, would his army die before reaching the Berezina? Or, on the contrary, would have crossed the frozen river on ice, avoiding disaster?
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 12 May 2021 08: 04
      +8
      Too many subjunctives.

      This month of the French in Moscow is extremely interesting.
      When does an army stop being structured? Was there a chance that Moscow would avoid the fires?

      Even if the river stood up, the fighting efficiency of the French army on this campaign would not be restored. Only the details could change.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 12 May 2021 12: 18
        +4
        Hello, Sergey. smile
        Was there a chance that Moscow would avoid the fires?

        This is in no way possible, the city caught fire in several places at once, like the famous "Crow Slobodka", and no one will ever know who set it on fire and for what reason. Each of their arsonists might have their own reasons.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 May 2021 12: 32
          +3
          I think so too. And according to today's conversation, the road from Filey to Maloyaroslavets is represented. And I want to reread the pages of War and Peace.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 12 May 2021 13: 21
            +3
            ... the road from Filey to Maloyaroslavets appears.


            Well, this road ultimately led to what Segur later summed up:

            "Do you remember this ill-fated battlefield, where the conquest of the world stopped, where 20 years of continuous victories crumbled to dust, where the great collapse of our happiness began?"


            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 12 May 2021 15: 46
              +3
              Yes. They just imagine the place where Troitsk is now, which has entered New Moscow, and Mozhaisk, and Maloyaroslavets.

              “I will put a silver cross on my chest,
              I will cross myself and quietly set off on my way
              Along the old road along Kaluzhskaya "(c).
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 12 May 2021 16: 00
                +3
                "The shot will strike, the bullet will whistle,
                Your friend is not alive in the weeds. "(C)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 12 May 2021 21: 43
                  +1
                  “Wait, wipe away your tears, we are Russian frosts.
                  Let us freeze it, notice it with melancholy, beckoning Moscow "(c).
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 12 May 2021 22: 24
                    +1
                    "The West wanders here, pulling the guides,
                    The collective farmers are looking at the Metropol ... "(c)
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 13 May 2021 03: 22
                      +1
                      “Along the longest street in Moscow,
                      Along the quietest street in Moscow "(c).
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 May 2021 12: 10
                        +1
                        "Streets-boxes" (c)
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 12 May 2021 08: 25
      +9
      Quote: VlR
      have you ever wondered how this campaign would go

      I have a question. Why did Napoleon come to Moscow, a district town, and not take the capital, St. Petersburg? Didn't the generals tell him where the Russian capital was?
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 12 May 2021 09: 44
        +9
        Perhaps, in the Napoleonic headquarters, there were geographical maps before the time of Peter the Great, even without St. Petersburg, but ask, where is the capital of Ingushetia? No one or no time?
        PS. It seems to me that this is the main mystery of the "company of 1812". After all, Napoleon always attacked the capital, and then the devils carried him in a completely different direction.
        Napoleon knew well where St. Petersburg is, but he sent secondary parts there.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 12 May 2021 09: 58
          +3
          Quote: vladcub
          ask where is the capital

          Perhaps the Poles prompted them to ask Susanin for directions. laughing

          There is an opinion that the social capital of merchant Moscow (candy bars) did not allow the development of a private British bank (Bulkokhrusta) in St. Petersburg. The social capital of merchants (managers assigned by the society to manage the common money) won in all tenders. They tried to solve these problems with the hands of the French.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 13: 08
        +7
        Quote: Boris55
        Napoleon came to Moscow - a district town, and did not take the capital - St. Petersburg?

        But tell me - what for him St. Petersburg surrendered?
        Try to get to it, this is not the Smolensk-Moscow Upland, but the Ingermanland swamps - who has been that knows. laughing
        Well, let's say he got there, leaving behind the unbroken armies of Barclay and Bagration. The capital of the Russian Empire was taken. So what? Literally: so what?
        Imagine yourself in the place of Napoleon. The picture is as follows.
        Winter Palace, chambers of Emperor Alexander. Rain is beating on the window, torn clouds are hovering over the gray Neva, a kind of fresh breeze from the bay along the embankment ... It's already chilly at night, at the beginning of September it can be plus three or five, easily. Provisions are even less than in Moscow, because the districts are much poorer, the north, after all, and food is running out. The Gulf of Finland is dominated by the Russian fleet based on Kronstadt and Helsingfors. From the south and west, Barclay and Bagration stand, licking predatoryly, intercepting all the routes from the city, of which there are only five - Arkhangelsk (east), Moscow (southeast), Warsaw (south), Vyborg (north) and Revelsky (west ) paths.
        The roads to Moscow, Arkhangelsk and Vyborg are open - go, I don't want to.
        And so you jumped on the royal feather bed, tried on your backside to the imperial throne (if it was not taken away, of course), spat out of the window on Palace Square, noting to yourself that in the center of some monument there was not enough - it was empty - and then something what will you do?
        To Moscow? To Arkhangelsk? Or visit the traitor Bernadotte? Or back home? Through the battle formations of the Russian army, which is growing by leaps and bounds ... Yes, through forests and swamps, but in the rain ... And the vile Alexander with his family and courtyard moved to Moscow and calmly continues to send out manifestos about the fight against the evil enemy-Antichrist from there ...
        Well, what are you deciding? laughing
        Quote: Boris55
        There is an opinion

        There was a quiet sound of "py!" and a light amber of pseudo-history spread ...
        But still he is a great rogue, tell me what is his name?
        Py! tara-ta-ta-ta-there!
        Live! tara-ta-ta-ta-there!
        Cove! tara-ta-ta-tata-there!
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 15: 21
          +4
          And the vile Alexander with his family and court moved to Moscow and calmly continues to send out manifestos on the fight against the evil enemy, the Antichrist, from there.

          And defiantly drinks tea from the balcony. With buns. yes In the company of Rostopchin and Arakcheev.
          Or visit the traitor Bernadotte?

          Then he was still ... mmm ... not exactly a traitor! repeat He will declare war on Bonaparte only next year. lol What will not prevent his wife from spending this whole war in Paris, chatting with her friends - the wives of her husband's former colleagues, and now his enemies! wassat Generally sur!
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 15: 47
            +2
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Then he was still ... mmm ... not exactly a traitor!

            Well, I see ... he was a little pregnant. laughing
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            And defiantly drinks tea from the balcony. With buns.

            Yes, in this situation, and in Berlin to Louise's grave, he could quite have time to hit the road. smile
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 15: 55
              +2
              Well, I see ... he was a little pregnant.

              Until the end of 1812, he was "sharply disagreeing" and a quiet crap-player in Bonaparte leggings. wink I mean, he announced to Alexander that the Russian forces from Finland could be transferred to Pskov - the Swedes would not interfere. As a result, we have beaten Oudinot and Saint-Cyr, and Sweden - a country with a two-hundred-year dynasty, which has not fought for a long time, and has a high standard of living. And, in many ways, this is the merit of Jean-Baptiste and Alexander Pavlovich! soldier But already in 1813 he popped against the former patron. laughing
              Yes, in this situation, and in Berlin to Louise's grave, he could quite have time to hit the road.

              The lucid ones would not give it. Even if I went through Poltava. wassat
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 16: 06
                +2
                In any case, if I were Napoleon, I would have been careful not to visit him. smile
                And as for the clairvoyants, no one would ask them. Alexander would take with him a "squadron of flying hussars" with Denis Davydov, and Vasilisa Kozhin in addition, and that's it - the road is free! I am sure that if Louise had been alive by then, he would have done so. He would hardly get to Josephine, and to Louise - easily, while Napoleon would chill out on the St. Petersburg Riviera. Literally.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 16: 26
                  +2
                  Alexander would take with him a "squadron of flying hussars" with Denis Davydov, and Vasilisa Kozhin in addition, and that's it - the road is free!

                  Yeah, but the Radziwills and others who joined would immediately fled to the corners. fellow
                  He would hardly get to Josephine, and to Louise - easily, while Napoleon would chill out on the St. Petersburg Riviera. Literally.

                  Checkmate, as under Austerlitz - cut off through the Ukraine. laughing And to threaten the indistinct Schwarzenberg with a big slingshot! angry You can write althistori, Mikhail! drinks
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 16: 53
                    +2
                    I can, but I won't. I'm too talented for that - people will think that this is how it was. Even if on each page on the diagonal in red letters write "fake".
                    laughing wassat
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 17: 00
                      +2
                      I'm too talented for that - people will think that this is how it was.

                      And modest! And good! lol
                      Even if on each page on the diagonal in red letters write "fake".

                      Remember the film "Poor Poor Pavel"? Kutaisov's story. Like, they put a stamp on someone's face - "thief". And then they found out that he was innocent. How to be? request They put one more stigma - it turned out "NOT a thief". wassat
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 18: 17
                        +2
                        Nobody praises me - you have to do everything yourself ... laughing
                        I watched the film about Paul for a long time. But I believe you. smile
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 13 May 2021 07: 30
          0
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          But tell me - what for him St. Petersburg surrendered?

          Because the center of government is located in the capitals. Don't you know? That is why the capture of Berlin and the signing of the surrender on 9/05/1945 meant our Victory. That is why all revolutions take place in the capitals.

          If Napoleon wanted to conquer Russia, he would have gone to the capital, this is how he conquered all of Europe.

          What did Napoleon expect while sitting in Moscow - when the Russian Tsar would bring him the keys to Russia from St. Petersburg? Do not make me laugh. Sheer absurdity. Napoleon's goal was quite different. I gave one of the opinions, and you - nothing in essence.

          Question to you.
          Why are we celebrating Borodino Day and not celebrating the day of France's surrender?
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 13 May 2021 10: 32
            +3
            Quote: Boris55
            Because the center of government is located in the capitals.

            You think like a child. I was thinking at this level that way in elementary school, and with just such examples. To win the war, you need to take the capital of the enemy. Hitler failed to take Moscow, but we took Berlin - our victory. And although Napoleon took Moscow, the capital was in Petersburg!
            Remember: no one is obliged to give up if they lost their capital. There is no universal law that everyone obeys. No one is obliged to surrender at all, and as long as there is strength to fight, he has the right to do so. Peace negotiations or surrender occur when one of the parties or both have exhausted all means to continue the struggle - the armies are defeated, the economy is depleted, and human resources are exhausted. Well, or when one of the parties lacks political will, this also happens. And the capital itself has nothing to do with it.
            Unlike you and those like you, Napoleon understood these simple truths two hundred years ago, so he tried first of all to deprive the enemy of the means to resist, and not to capture the "control point".
            Of the strategically important facilities in St. Petersburg, there was only a seaport, well, maybe a gunpowder factory, besides, it was always completely dependent on the delivery of food. Moscow, on the other hand, was an equally important political and economic center, and a much more important center of internal logistics. Therefore, it was Moscow, as a more vulnerable target, that Alexander defended in the first place, and Napoleon attacked in the first place.
            Quote: Boris55
            the social capital of merchant Moscow (candy bars) did not allow a private English bank (bulkokhrust) in St. Petersburg to develop.

            In general, think about what you are saying: the British, with the hands of Napoleon, with the consent of Alexander, struck Moscow capital in the interests of St. Petersburg ...
            That is, the British are opening a bank in St. Petersburg and are terribly eager to invest in the Russian economy. But Moscow patriots do not allow them to do this, investing their money here. Then the British come to Napoleon (with whom they have been fighting for more than a decade) and ask him:
            - Listen, let’s burn Moscow. We are good, and you are pleased.
            - And let's - Napoleon agrees - Alexander just thinks about this? As it were, his city ...
            - Alexander agrees. We have agreed to.
            - Well, no question. Even though we are at war with you, I will always burn Moscow. It's in your interests ... Well, to make the war more fun.
            So what do you think it was all about?
            And now specific questions.
            What is a private English bank? Name?
            What kind of "capital of merchant Moscow"? Is this some kind of association? Bank? Guild? Criminal common fund? What was the name?
            And finally, what specific "tenders" did Moscow win against the British? Who announced? When? For what? What's the bottom line?
            Try to back up the allegation with facts.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 13 May 2021 10: 56
              0
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Remember: no one is obliged to give up if they lost their capital.

              The capital is government. Whoever owns the management, he owns everything. Everyone knows what happens when Moscow "lost" control in the 90s.

              An individual may think that he can do something, but the reality is that if you lose control, you lose everything. If your ideas about your possibilities are illusory, then the consequences of these illusions are quite specific.

              Quote: Trilobite Master
              And finally, what specific "tenders" did Moscow win against the British? Who announced? When?

              The construction of the railway from St. Petersburg to Tsarskoe Selo was financed by a private joint stock company.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 13 May 2021 11: 26
                +1
                Quote: Boris55
                The capital is government.

                What is "governance" at the beginning of the XNUMXth century? Specifically - what? I will tell you. This is the emperor, his court and the bureaucratic apparatus. In other words, they are people whose location is not difficult to change. It is much more difficult to change the location of industrial and infrastructure facilities. Here is the loss of Moscow - a real violation of management, since in those days it was a huge transport hub, as well as an industrial and cultural center with centuries-old traditions. Petersburg, despite its status as a capital, depended on Moscow, since it was on the edge of the Empire and it was through Moscow that its communications with the rest of Russia were mainly carried out. To understand this, it is enough just to look at the map of Russia.
                Quote: Boris55
                The construction of the railway from St. Petersburg to Tsarskoe Selo was financed by a private joint stock company.

                What year?
                We are talking, I think, about 1812.
                I repeat the questions:
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                What is a private English bank? Name?
                What kind of "capital of merchant Moscow"? Is this some kind of association? Bank? Guild? Criminal common fund? What was the name?
                And finally, what specific "tenders" did Moscow win against the British? Who announced? When? For what? What's the bottom line?

                I would like to draw your attention to the fact that both the "English bank" and "Moscow capital" and "tenders" must take place BEFORE 1812, otherwise your whole structure acquires an absolutely opposite meaning.
      3. Ulrih
        Ulrih 12 May 2021 14: 20
        +2
        Therefore, you do not understand that you are writing nonsense about Nap.wars (that Napoleon wanted to conquer Russia and claim the royal throne - one of the most luxurious).

        Napoleon was looking for the main Russian army to defeat in battle and force the tsar to observe the Tilsit agreements again. The Russian army retreated to Moscow, Napoleon pursued it. I would retreat to Peter, I would take Peter. It was after Borodin that Moscow got at least something in addition to the peace negotiations. All the same, the ancient capital and economically important city (in 2nd place after St. Petersburg).
      4. bk0010
        bk0010 12 May 2021 15: 33
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        Why did Napoleon come to Moscow, a district town, and not take the capital, St. Petersburg?
        Because he was chasing our armies (he wanted to break it up in parts), but they were not going to Petersburg. To Petersburg, Napoleon sent two corps (Marshals MacDonald and Oudinot), they captured a piece of the Baltic, then they were stuck with the corps of Lieutenant General Wittgenstein and the militias near Oudinot, after which the campaign to Petersburg ended. Reinforcements in the form of General Saint-Cyr's corps allowed the French to withdraw.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 16: 39
          +2
          To Petersburg, Napoleon sent two corps (Marshals MacDonald and Oudinot), they captured a piece of the Baltic, then they were stuck with the corps of Lieutenant General Wittgenstein and the militias near Oudinot, after which the campaign to Petersburg ended. Reinforcements in the form of General Saint-Cyr's corps allowed the French to withdraw.

          Let me add a little. drinks At the same time, MacDonald languidly lingered around Riga throughout the war, pretending to be besieging. With the approach of the corps, Oudinot Wittgenstein found himself in a very dangerous position - he went to his rear, cutting off the road to Pskov. The consequence was the battle of Klyastitsy. And then there were already two battles at Polotsk. In the second, Wittgenstein defeated Saint-Cyr and Oudinot. soldier The bridge in the center of Polotsk is still called Red because of the abundance of blood spilled.
          When retreating from Russia, Macdonald's troops closed the corps of the Prussians of York. It was cut off by Diebitsch, after which a kind of "convention" was concluded, according to which the Germans were declared .. "neutral"! fellow As soon as King Frederick Wilhelm declared war on Bonaparte, the same corps joined the allied forces. A tricky plan! good Apparently, it was not for nothing that Diebitsch was one of the four awarded with all four degrees of the Order of St. George! drinks With respect, Nicholai
      5. Tavrik
        Tavrik 12 May 2021 17: 49
        +2
        Because Napoleon's task is to defeat the Russian army and quickly sign a peace, and not seize the capital, overthrow Alexander, free the peasants, etc.
        After two defeats of Russia in 1805 and 1807, given its active preparation for an offensive war in 1811, Napoleon decided to act preemptively and for the third time "click on the nose" of Alexander and for the third time to sign a peace treaty with Russia.
        Therefore, he went after the Russian army, and not to the capital.
      6. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 12 May 2021 18: 02
        +3
        Napoleon did not go to Moscow, he pursued the main part of the Russian army, destroying which, one could achieve success in the campaign.
        Moscow is a county town

        At the same time, the population of Moscow and St. Petersburg in 1812 was approximately the same. This is a county town.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 May 2021 19: 34
          +1
          The county town in 1812 was simply cut. This is how much in the centuries it turned out to be missed.
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 12 May 2021 12: 14
      +6
      Valery, good afternoon. hi
      If Napoleon left Moscow later ...

      As practice shows, senseless sitting in the cities captured from the enemy has a corrupting effect on the troops, looting, women, drunkenness, and the loss of discipline. In my opinion, the longer the French stayed in Moscow, the worse it was for them.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 12: 34
        +4
        It would have been better not.
        You can't guess.
        You can wait out the storm, but our winter is difficult.
    4. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 13: 19
      +3
      Valery, confess, why do you dislike Mikhaila Illarionych so much? Directly, this is not the first time I notice that you have some kind of irrational hostility towards him, giving off, literally, as a kind of personal person.
      Darling sybarite, ladies' man, ruthless intriguer, subtle diplomat, far-sighted strategist, brave warrior, "crafty courtier" ... There were even worse characters, why Kutuzov?
      1. VLR
        12 May 2021 13: 43
        +6
        In my opinion, I'm just objective. But, given that Kutuzov is officially declared the "savior of the Fatherland" and they write about him traditionally "with an enthusiastic aspiration", any information that goes at least a little bit contrary to the established opinion (even 100% confirmed and easily verified) is perceived by some as "blackening". A similar situation with Alexander Nevsky.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 12 May 2021 14: 00
          +5
          Quote: VlR
          In my opinion, I'm just objective. But, given that Kutuzov is officially declared the "savior of the Fatherland" and they write about him traditionally "with an enthusiastic aspiration", any information that goes at least a little bit contrary to the established opinion (even 100% confirmed and easily verified) is perceived by some as "blackening". A similar situation with Alexander Nevsky.

          Bravo!
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 14: 44
          +3
          Quote: VlR
          In my opinion, I'm just objective.

          I just don't think so, alas.
          If you were objective, or at least tried to seem, you would certainly have mentioned in the article other points that testified about Kutuzov as a talented commander, an outstanding diplomat and just a charming person - there are a lot of them, both among the assessments of contemporaries and descendants, who evaluated his activities. But you prefer one side - the vile side. I am not against criticism of historical figures, but I absolutely do not understand the approach when the author takes sides, completely oblivious to those qualities in his heroes that do not fit into his concept.
          Where are those qualities of Kutuzov that allowed him to make a dizzying career, win many military and diplomatic victories, receive a huge number of awards and, in the end, destroy an unprecedentedly huge army led by one of the most talented military leaders in the history of mankind? The image of Kutuzov that you are trying to create here, in my opinion, is completely inconsistent with such a career and such achievements, don't you think?
          Of those qualities that I listed in my previous commentary, and which I personally have no doubts about, you are left with only a "ruthless intriguer" and "crafty courtier", at best. This is not good, unfair to the reader.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 12 May 2021 15: 49
            +4
            It's just that if a person achieves something, it is easier to explain something by a miracle.
            And there is always someone behind a miracle.

            Lev Nikolaevich Tolstoy is a man with a critical mind. But in vain I didn’t often give compliments.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 16: 11
              +3
              Yes, it seems to me that Valery was in vain to take up arms against Kutuzov. In the bank of spiders in which he existed and felt relatively at ease, he was far from the most vile character. And he fully deserved his fame and the memory of his descendants.
              1. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 12 May 2021 18: 17
                +4
                Well, just a man of Troitsky once read it. An image has formed.

                Kutuzov, in extremely unfavorable conditions, won two wars in one year for the complete extermination of the enemy's field armies + he signed a profitable peace treaty in a completely impossible situation. The efficiency is unprecedented.

                Mikhail Illarionovich was also disliked by his contemporaries for very simple reasons: 1. they felt that he was an order of magnitude smarter than them (at the level of adults and children); 2. does not hesitate to live for his own pleasure and does not hide it (romantic nonsense was absolutely alien to him, yes); 3. Consistently carries out its decisions in life and achieves success (there, poor Langeron as a man).
                Actually, the author himself wrote about Kutuzov's motives in the 1812 campaign and either did not understand, or pretended not to understand the main thing: Mikhail Illarionovich did not want to destroy Napoleon at all and considered the war with him an openly stupid and harmful measure.
                Because he was smarter than those who like to wave a saber and understood what it would lead to (and led). Oddly enough, the Serene One is not so much a military man as a statesman.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 12 May 2021 19: 37
                  +1
                  One of the Chinese stratagems:

                  “They will erect a monument to him,
                  As unnecessary as his
                  A heroic gesture.
                  And another, whose name will not be remembered,
                  Will not go right through
                  And by laying siege to Wei, he will save Zhao
                  Thanks to the change of places ”(c).
                2. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 10: 49
                  0
                  Oddly enough, the Serene One is not so much a military man as a statesman.

                  Exactly, exactly! And only such - the wisest - could achieve diplomatic success ... hi
        3. Tavrik
          Tavrik 12 May 2021 17: 51
          0
          The author writes objectively about Kutuzov. I also respect him very much, but I do not consider him a genius commander. By the way, what major battles did Kutuzov win?
          1. albert
            albert 12 May 2021 21: 32
            +2
            Quote: Tavrik
            By the way, what major battles did Kutuzov win?

            Well, Ruschuk, for a start.
            1. Tavrik
              Tavrik 13 May 2021 15: 46
              0
              Is accepted.
              The fact that after the victory we retreated, we refer to the corporate identity of Kutuzov.
              Still?
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 15: 26
        +4
        Sybarite dear, ladies' man, ruthless intriguer, subtle diplomat, far-sighted strategist, brave warrior, "crafty courtier" ...

        And one of those who attended Pavel Petrovich's last dinner ... what
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 15: 55
          +2
          And he also loved to eat deliciously. smile
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 16: 06
            +4
            And he also loved to eat deliciously.

            So he loved the opposite sex very much, if even the Soviet writer Rakovsky in his novel "Kutuzov" casually, with a hint, mentions this ... wink In general, a very harmonious personality, living in harmony with itself, and succeeding in everything! bully
            1. Ryazan87
              Ryazan87 12 May 2021 18: 18
              +3
              Including 14-year-olds (he had such a sweet relationship with Wallachia). What to do, a man of the 18th century, lived for his own pleasure.
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 12 May 2021 08: 15
    +6
    everything is clear now: Kutuzov lost to Borodino, in the headquarters of intrigue and bacchanalia, Russian victories are accidental and happened on their own, Napoleon SAM left Russia, and the Russian army was almost destroyed. All this is "proved" by the "testimonies" of contemporaries.

    But, the truth is still evidence contemporary:
    Before the tomb of the saint
    I stand with a drooping head ...
    Everything is asleep all around; some icon lamps
    In the darkness of the temple
    Pillars of granite bulks
    And their banners are overhanging a row.

    Under them lies this ruler,
    This idol of the northern squads
    The venerable guard of the land of sovereign,
    The subduer of all her enemies,

    This rest of the glory
    Catherine eagles.

    В delight lives on your coffin!
    He gives us a Russian voice;

    He repeats us about that year
    When the popular faith voice
    Appealed to your holy graying:
    "Go, save!" YOU GOT UP AND SAVE! ...

    Listen to our true voice today
    Rise and save the king and us
    O formidable elder! For a moment
    Appear at the door of the grave
    Appear, breathe enthusiasm and zeal
    The shelves left by you!

    Appear and kiss your
    Point us in the crowd of leaders
    Who is your heir, your chosen one!

    But the temple is immersed in silence,
    And be quiet of your grave
    An unflappable, eternal dream ...


    A.S. Pushkin

    yes, and more:

    great army almost fully remained in Russia. But that's all, now it's clear by itself happened ..

    And the Russian army "disappeared" to Vilna in 1813 by oneself beat the French already in Europe (very much disappeared, you can see it right away), besieged fortresses, forced rivers, etc. victories there she persuaded Prussia and others to an alliance against Napoleon.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 12 May 2021 08: 23
      +6
      And "The Wolf in the Kennel" is also remembered:

      "You are Ser,
      And I am a friend - gray ”(c).
    2. VLR
      12 May 2021 08: 33
      +5
      No need to juggle. No one denies the heroism of Russian soldiers and officers, who, just like the French, suffering from cold and hunger, and suffering heavy non-combat losses, pursued the retreating Napoleonic troops. But, facts are a stubborn thing. There were general squabbles, alas. Regardless of the results of the Borodino battle (even a victory, even a draw), Moscow was abandoned in it because of the criminal negligence of the authorities - huge reserves of food, fodder, weapons, and a huge amount of valuables. And the losses of the Russian army during the "parallel march" were very serious - from illness and hypothermia. The Grand Duke Constantine was horrified when he saw in Vilna instead of the former brilliant regiments a crowd of some armed half-frostbitten hungry ragamuffins. Another army, replenished from reserves, crossed the border. Kutuzov, by the way, categorically objected
      against further war in Europe.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 12 May 2021 10: 15
        +4
        Scorched earth tactics as ancient as the world.
        Throwing the wounded in the Battle of Borodino in Moscow to death and loading carts from under the wounded with fire equipment so that the French have nothing to put out the fires ... war is a cruel thing.
        And we also need to erect a monument to European "humanism" on Kudrinskaya Square. On this square, next to the high-rise is the "Widow's House", during the occupation of Moscow by the French, in this almshouse there were 5 thousand wounded. On the contrary, the French were quartered in the so-called Rostov estate now. At some point, it seemed to the French that they were being shot from this almshouse. Without thinking twice, they pulled out a cannon for direct fire and began to shoot, the almshouse caught fire from the shooting and many wounded died in the fire.

        Photo from the side of the estate.
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 10: 16
        +5
        Kutuzov, by the way, categorically objected to further war in Europe.

        I agree.
        the already familiar partisan - Major General I.S.Dorokhov received a serious wound, from the consequences of which he later died.

        Dorokhov resembles Kulnev in type - externally. Well, it is understandable, both are dashing hussars.

        Here is what the website of the Verey Museum reports about his death:
        http://vereyamuseum.ru/pamyatnik_dorohovu_i.s.
        Shortly before his death, which followed in Tula on April 25, 1815, Ivan Semenovich Dorokhov expressed his wish to be buried in Vereya. In a letter addressed to the Vereians, he wrote: “If you have heard, respected compatriots, about General Dorokhov, who liberated your city from the enemy of our Fatherland, then I expect you to give me three arshins of earth in return for my eternal reassurance at the church where I took the enemy's fortification by storm, destroying it completely, for which my children will be grateful to you. "
        Paying tribute to the patriotic general, the townspeople greeted his remains 30 miles away, carried him in their arms to Vereya and buried him in the Cathedral Church of the Nativity of Christ.
        On July 5, 1837, the future Russian Emperor Alexander II honored the general's grave with his visit.
        In 1913. a monument to I.S. Dorokhov was erected on the site.

        Monument to him:

        Then it was ... how it was!
        Vereysky local historian Sergei Alexandrovich Pospelov wrote: “On August 16, 1918, after a rally of troops leaving to fight the White Czechs, and the adoption at this meeting of a resolution to demolish the monument to the Tsar's General Dorokhov, that is, almost 103 years after the burial of the body of Ivan Semenovich, to the cathedral Nativity of Christ, a group of people in army clothes came, armed with rifles, revolvers and grenades. They acted quite openly and even insolently. We went into the basement. A heavy tombstone was pushed aside and thrown to the floor. A deep burial niche was opened, at the bottom of which a coffin with the remains of the hero rested. Those who came talked about a golden saber with diamonds and a family ring on the hand of the deceased. With the help of ropes, they lifted the coffin from the niche. Immediately, they hastily opened its lid and froze in surprise: a man lay in front of them, who seemed to be just asleep ... Then one of those who came decided to unfasten the golden epaulette from the uniform of the deceased. The very first touch of the hand to the clothes of the deceased was fatal - all of it and the dried tissues of the body crumbled to dust, exposing the bones of the human skeleton. They began to dig in the humus: they were looking for a ring, a pectoral gold cross, a precious saber, orders. No orders were found. The saber was found, but it turned out to be not an award, but a combat one. The ring and the pectoral cross were also found and taken away. The remains of the "tsarist general", guided by an inflamed self-consciousness, were carried out of the basement and thrown from a high slope above Protva. The bronze monument on the rampart was fired upon at the same time, and then demolished ... It is noteworthy that, as people saw, during the shooting of the monument to the hussar-general, one of the bullets beat off a bronze spur and a cast heel of a boot ...
        At the pedestal of the monument to Dorokhov, as an integral part of the composition, the creators placed a cast eagle. At the same time, in August of the eighteenth, the metal bird was dragged to the old carriage house and thrown into a deep well. On the night following the destruction of the general's grave, two elderly Vereian women gathered the remains of Ivan Semyonovich lying on the slope and, as rumor claims, secretly buried them in a secret place. But where exactly, no one can say now ... "

        Before World War II, a huge white plaster head of Karl Marx was installed on the pedestal. The square where the Nativity Cathedral is located was also named after Karl Marx. On the granite rock were carved the words of the creator of the "Manifesto ...": "The workers have nothing to lose except their chains, and they will conquer the whole world." This inscription can still be seen when the cement is chipped.
        On October 12, 1941, when German divisions attacked the city, the statue was torn from its place by a shock wave from an explosion or an aerial bomb or an artillery shell. The plaster head was blown to smithereens. Local residents whispered that, apparently, it was not for good that they had put “someone else's head” on the consecrated place.
        After the liberation of the city, a small pyramid with a star with the inscription "In memory of the Patriotic War of 1812 to Lieutenant General I.S.Dorokhov who liberated Vereya from the French on October 11, 1812" was erected on an artificial rock, which turned out to be very strong.
        The monument to I.S. Dorokhov was erected again in 1957.
        On the eve of the celebration of the 2000th anniversary of the Nativity of Christ, one more serious event was being prepared in Verey: the reburial of the ashes of General Dorokhov, whose grave in 1918. has been desecrated.

        As a result, Dorokhov was reburied, and his monument looks like this:
        1. VLR
          12 May 2021 10: 25
          +6
          Then there will be articles about guerrilla warfare - peasant, "people's" and "flying detachments" of regular troops. Including about Dorokhov.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 10: 32
            +5
            Then there will be articles about guerrilla warfare - peasant, "people's" and "flying detachments" of regular troops. Including about Dorokhov.

            And about the outrageous Figner? This one was still that Figaro!
            And what about Benckendorff? More than a well-deserved comrade! soldier
            Vladimir Kachan (the Kingdom of Heaven for him), even in an idiotic series, managed to play a wonderful, sagacious Alexander Khristoforovich! good
            1. VLR
              12 May 2021 10: 35
              +4
              Yes of course. And about others too. Figner is probably the most colorful character.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 10: 36
                +3
                Figner is probably the most colorful character.

                Perhaps I agree - an adventurer of the highest brand. yes Although I would like to read more about him! We are waiting, sir! drinks
            2. Konnick
              Konnick 12 May 2021 11: 00
              +7
              Beckendorf, cheated by history, but a real patriot of Russia. He did not participate in the "alliances of salvation", but simply freed his serfs without ransom.
              And about Vladimir Kachan, you can say a great artist and singer. So to sing "The cavalry guard is a short century ..." is worth a lot, we will remember.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 13: 07
                +4
                Beckendorf, cheated by history, but a real patriot of Russia. He did not participate in the "alliances of salvation", but simply freed his serfs without ransom.

                Nikolay, hello! I don’t know about serfs, but the fact that young Benckendorff was a dashing officer is still true. In 1812-14 he fought in the flying cavalry units. Yes, and the story about his relationship with the actress Georges is also true! wink good
                Order of St. George, 3rd degree (on the neck) - a military award! (film "The Monk and the Devil").

                And his sister was Daria (Dorothea) Lieven - as they say, "the first Russian woman diplomat"! drinks With respect, Nicholai

                And about Vladimir Kachan, you can say a great artist and singer. So to sing "The cavalry guard is a short century ..." is worth a lot, we will remember.

                He was a great artist, although he did not particularly shine. Bright memory...
              2. Richard
                Richard 12 May 2021 13: 17
                +4
                Beckendorf, cheated by history, but a real patriot of Russia. He did not participate in the "alliances of salvation", but simply freed his serfs without ransom.

                And when did Beckendorf release them, and where? Do not share a link?
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 13: 22
                  +2
                  ... And I'm thinking .... and Nikolai Pavlovich was generally the greatest humanist - knowing that "some kind people" wanted to kill you (I think, together with his family and brother!), He hanged only the main instigators ... hi
                2. Konnick
                  Konnick 12 May 2021 13: 27
                  +1
                  This is from the book of Alexander Bashkuev. But there is some truth. Many Decembrists also released the serfs. Lunin and Volkonsky were also released, but they were tried anyway.
                  1. Richard
                    Richard 12 May 2021 13: 54
                    +2
                    This is from the book by Alexander Bashkuev. But there is some truth

                    What is the truth? laughing Isn't it funny for you to refer to art books in the "history" section? There is no need to spread a fake about a backendorf-liberator, especially since he has long been refuted and ridiculed.
                    link https://korobok12.livejournal.com/557979.html
                    1. Richard
                      Richard 12 May 2021 14: 03
                      +3
                      Konnick (Nikolay): Many Decembrists also released the serfs. Lunin and Volkonsky were also released, but they were tried anyway.

                      I don't know about Volkonsky, but Lunin would not let his serfs go. This is the second fake in a row.
                      link:https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/154251.html
                      Are you tired of it?
                      1. Konnick
                        Konnick 12 May 2021 15: 14
                        0
                        Interesting links you have on LJ, the Internet will endure everything. And serfdom in the Baltic was abolished in 1816, and Beckendorf had an estate there, only it was possible to let go in different ways, with or without land, etc.
                      2. Richard
                        Richard 13 May 2021 05: 41
                        +2
                        Interesting links you have on LJ, the Internet will endure everything.

                        They are also the most "tolerant" in relation to the distributors of fakes about "Beckendorf the Liberator". Search for "Beckendorf and the Serfs" and enjoy the rest laughing
                        Serfdom in the Baltics was abolished in 1816

                        Lies again. Not in 1816, but in 1819.
                        Moreover, the serfs were freed without land. And Benckedorff has absolutely nothing to do with this. It was an experiment of the Emperor Alexander Pavlovich, which he developed, but which his father Pavel Petrovich did not dare to do in due time, because feeding an individual family required 4 dessiatines at its disposal, and Paul the 1st did not have the opportunity to provide land in such volumes yes
                        And serfdom in the Baltic was abolished in 1816, and Beckendorf had an estate there

                        Remember - A.H. Benckendorff never had his estate in Livonia in 1816. The Fall estate in the Baltics appeared after the execution of the Decembrists. yes
                        And the family estates in the Tambov region A.Kh. Benckendorff simply could not dispose of at all - for one simple reason - they were owned by his father (in half with the Golitsyn), who died on 11.06.1823/30/XNUMX. And even after the death of Christopher Ivanovich Beckendorf, Aleksapndr's personal share in his father's heritage was only XNUMX% - joint with his brother Konstantin Benckendorff and sisters Maria Benckendorf (married Shaevich), and Dorothea Benckendorff (married Lieven). yes
                        Therefore, he, not having a sufficient amount of his own land, he had to, as he himself writes about it:
                        "to build factories, receive state orders and drive their serfs there from the land ..."
                        link: Benckendorf A. Kh. Notes. Memoirs, 1802-1837; in the publication. A. A. Litvin.

                        By the way, he was a pretty tough business executive. I’m not saying whether this is good or bad, but the fact remains.
                        PS But minus is not nice, I don’t minus you. It is better to provide links confirming your pseudo-historical statements, but please, not from the fantasy literature of Alexander Bashkuev

                        laughing
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 12 May 2021 11: 02
      +2
      Quote: VlR
      No need to juggle. No one denies the heroism of Russian soldiers and officers, who, just like the French, suffering from cold and hunger, and suffering heavy non-combat losses, pursued the retreating Napoleonic troops. But, facts are a stubborn thing.

      that's it: the stubborn fact is that Victory came with KUTUZOV, the commander-in-chief of the slave them Russian army.
      Quote: VlR
      Moscow was abandoned in it because of the criminal negligence of the authorities - huge reserves of food, fodder, weapons, and a huge amount of valuables.

      under a completely different commander, huge reserves of food, wine, fodder, without which the offensive on Moscow simply would not have taken place, were left in Vyazma and Dorogobuzh,
      Quote: VlR
      seeing in Vilna, instead of the former brilliant regiments, crowds of some armed half-frostbitten hungry ragamuffins... Already crossed the border another army - replenished from reserves.

      Both armies suffered terrible losses from the cold. But the Russian army remained precisely amia and with the will to win, in contrast to the enemy, whom the Russians brought to mass cannibalism.

      The date of the liberation of Vilna is November 28, 1812.

      Already 4 days later, the "ragamuffins" liberated Kovno, Mitava, 2 weeks later Memel (this is already abroad), just 3 weeks later, Konigsberg, Friedland were taken, Pillau was besieged, etc.

      By the way, have order it was Kutuzov in the army on December 21, 1812, where he congratulated the troops on the expulsion of the enemy from the borders of Russia and called on their "to complete the defeat of the enemy in his own fields".
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 12 May 2021 14: 02
        +1
        the stubborn fact is that Victory came with KUTUZOV, the commander-in-chief of the Russian army led by him.

        Correlation is not causal.
  6. vladcub
    vladcub 12 May 2021 10: 08
    +4
    "in the headquarters of intrigue and orgy", and it is: Benegsen writes slander to the capital, like "and Mishka sleeps or farts in class." And those below, in turn, begin small showdowns: I am smarter, and you are a fool.
    What kind of discipline does Ermolov want to visit? Kutuzov had the right to throw Ermolov out of the army, but he changed his mind. Ermolov or some other general will say, but he is afraid or everything is purple to him. This is a real orgy
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 12 May 2021 14: 02
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    A.S. Pushkin

    Pushkin and Nicholas I glorified and how, and he, by the way, hung up his friends. When you are a card player and in debt, as in silks, you will write something else!
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 14: 29
      +3
      Pushkin and Nicholas I glorified and how, and he, by the way, hung up his friends. When you are a card player and in debt, as in silks, you will write something else!

      Forgot to add - a loving player with a bunch of children. At the same time, for me personally, it's a mystery where and how Pushkin, forgive me, have worked. request But he was definitely listed as an official, and had the court rank of chamber junker!
      From the wiki: On June 25, 1834, the titular councilor Pushkin resigned with a request to retain the right to work in the archives, which was necessary for the execution of the "History of Peter". Family affairs and the impossibility of a permanent presence in the capital were indicated as the motive. The petition was accepted with a refusal to use the archives, since Pushkin was formally an official at the Archives of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs [81]. Thus, Pushkin was deprived of the opportunity to continue working. Following Zhukovsky's advice, Pushkin withdrew the petition [83]. Later, Pushkin asked for leave for 3-4 years: in the summer of 1835 he wrote to his mother-in-law that he was going with his whole family to go to the village for several years. However, he was denied leave, in return Nicholas I offered a six-month vacation and 10 rubles, as it was said, "for help." Pushkin did not accept them and asked for 30 rubles with the condition of deduction from his salary, he was granted leave for four months. So for several years in advance, Pushkin was associated with the service in St. Petersburg [84]. This amount did not cover even half of Pushkin's debts., with the termination of the payment of salaries, one had to rely only on literary income, which depended on the reader's demand.
      You can, if you wish, look at these links - they inspire confidence.
      In general, the Afro-Russian poet is well settled! good Very good! And he made debts even better, curly gingerbread ...
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 12 May 2021 15: 00
        0
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        At the same time, for me personally, it's a mystery where and how Pushkin, forgive me, worked.

        Nikolay, something like this:

        With a glass ... drinks
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 15: 12
          0
          With a glass ...

          Seducing, Sergei ... repeat And I still have to work! wink drinks
          Nikolay, something like this:

          - I, too, are different vaudeville ... I often see writers. With Pushkin on a friendly footing. Sometimes, I often say to him: "Well, brother Pushkin?" - "Yes, so, brother," he answered, it happened, "because somehow everything ..." Great original. (Khlestakov, "The Inspector General").
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 12 May 2021 15: 22
            0
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            You seduce, Sergei ... feel And I still have to work!

            And who will work?
            Pushkin? drinks
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 13 May 2021 07: 31
        -2
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        Afro-Russian sonneteer, curly gingerbread
        !


        Poem, a, m. (Colloquial. despise.). Mediocre poet, poet, one who weaves poetry.

        Source: "Explanatory Dictionary of the Russian Language" edited by D. N. Ushakov

        Poem, -a, m. Razg. neglected Poor, mediocre poetry writer; rhymer, rhymer.


        What are you, Nobody, allow, gingerbread? negative
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 10: 00
          +2
          What are you, Nobody, allow, gingerbread?

          Nobody is Me? laughing Strange ... It seems that we have known each other for five years already .. Do you want to discuss? wink
          Have you read my comment? Andrey (sorry, I don’t know about my father!), You know, on that kind of money, for which the curly-haired "our all" made debts, it was possible to buy several villages along with the staff. And he .. lived .. in nothing to deny himself! Not in cards, not in broads. hi Also constantly challenging those who did not like them to a duel. It is a pity that Repnin-Volkonsky could not be summoned - that grunt was a good one, he participated in the famous attack of the cavalry guards at Austerlitz, he would have chopped off which part to the cocky poet, and that's it. bully
          SONNETEER

          Take the "Bronze Horseman" or "Poltava" better. hi We have already discussed once - the "Pushkin effect" is that he freely changes words for the sake of rhyme, adjusting them to the desired size.
          With respect, Nicholai
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 13 May 2021 11: 08
            -1
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            Nobody is Me? Strange ... It seems that we have known each other for five years already .. Do you want to discuss?

            Excuse me, of course, for the harshness, but what is it:
            neglect. Bad, talentless writer poetry;
            in relation to "our everything" was to cause?

            Flared up and there was a reason for that.

            .
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            And he .. lived .. in nothing to deny himself! Not in cards, not in broads.


            Well, let him! And what's wrong with that?

            And he is, after all, Pushkin!

            With all respect, Andrew
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 11: 14
              +1
              Well, let him! And what's wrong with that?

              He lived as he lived. request Although the amount of debt is, of course, prohibitive ... what Now the collectors would have knocked politely! yes
              And he is, after all, Pushkin!

              Exactly! As an iconic figure in Russian culture! Great original, you will not say anything ... hi Well, who was not original then, on the other hand? Yes, everything, each in its own way.
              Excuse me, of course, for the harshness

              Empty. All right. I, probably, very sharply walked around Alexander Sergeevich (I beg your pardon generously), although I personally do not like his image very much ... request But, how many people, so many opinions! drinks
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 13 May 2021 11: 31
                -1
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                I, probably, very sharply walked through Alexander Sergeevich (I beg your pardon generously), although his image personally I'm not too bad like... But, how many people, so many opinions!

                Your right.

                wherein
                ..And for a long time I will be so kind to the people,
                That I awakened good feelings with my lyre ...

    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 13 May 2021 07: 11
      -2
      Quote: kalibr
      When you card player and in debt, as in silks, also not that you will write!

      so write better, you are our virtuous!

      Can't you?

      Then leave genius at rest.

      By the way, how did the debts affect the attitude towards ... Kutuzov? What is it that has to "click" to think like that? belay
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 13 May 2021 07: 29
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        so write better, you are our virtuous!

        Can't you?

        Then leave the genius alone.

        Descendants are quite capable of separating genius in literature from immorality in life. Explained easily? Nobody encroaches on the genius of Pushkin's literature. I better not write here. Right. But in normal life, not literary, I will give Pushkin a decent head start. So distinguish flies from cutlets!
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 13 May 2021 08: 12
          -2
          Quote: kalibr
          separate genius in literature from immorality in life. Available explained?

          Of course not: what is "immorality in life"? belay

          What are you carrying?
          Quote: kalibr
          I'll give Pushkin a head start a decent

          It is you personally identified? Let me define, for example.
          Quote: kalibr
          But how could he praise Nikolai like that? And he praised. Both of them. So ... was flexible in judgment. And what is he could benefit

          On himself measure. By its career.

          And he is not you, yes. Absolutely. He did not bend in accordance with the curves of the party .. Therefore, you will not understand him.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 13 May 2021 08: 43
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            It did not bend to match the curves of the party.

            But he was bent in front of the needs of his wallet! He put his mother-in-law's diamonds on the line and lost. Not your own! So the difference is not big!
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 May 2021 09: 50
              -2
              Quote: kalibr
              But he bent before the needs of your wallet!

              what did you serve? To satisfy a spiritual need?
              And what does the game have to do with it?
              Quote: kalibr
              So the difference is not big!

              here I agree: "we are all human, we are all human" (c) yes
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 13 May 2021 10: 48
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                And what does the game have to do with it?

                Well, I didn't lose my mother-in-law's diamonds at cards ...
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 May 2021 11: 11
                  -3
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Well, I didn't lose my mother-in-law's diamonds at cards

                  do you think this is a plus?
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 13 May 2021 14: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    do you think this is a plus?

                    Sure. Drug addicts and gambling addicts by and large are not people ... Although among them there may well be talents. Who can argue ...
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 May 2021 14: 54
                      -1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      do you think this is a plus?

                      Sure. Drug addicts and gambling addicts by and large are not people ... Although among them there may well be talents. Who can argue ...

                      No one has yet called Pushkin a maniac and a non-human.

                      about the loss / non-loss, there is Uzhi, and there is a Falcon ...
                    2. kalibr
                      kalibr 13 May 2021 15: 36
                      0
                      And where did I call him an inhuman? There is simply such a point of view. Drug addiction is being treated. There is no cure for gambling addiction. Consciousness changes so much. Do you like people with altered consciousness? They are disgusting to me. And what about literature? So Hitler built good roads, and Mussolini. So you can get good from bad too!
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 May 2021 09: 40
                      -1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And where did I call him an inhuman?

                      it
                      Drug addicts and gambling addicts are by and large not people.
                      you wrote about Pushkin.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Do you like people with altered consciousness? They are disgusting to me.

                      Geniuses -always Not normal.

                      But they are the face, pride and definition of the nation, not mediocrity
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And what about literature? So Hitler built good roads, and Mussolini. So you can get good from bad too!

                      and "warm" is useful, but what does this have to do with ... "soft"?
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And smart people also know that a person should not build his happiness on the misfortune of others.

                      and who called these people ... "smart"? Ah, they ... themselves lol laughing .
                      Quote: kalibr
                      The foolish admire the talents of immoral and unprincipled people and elevate their talents to the absolute, forgetting how much suffering and grief they brought to their loved ones

                      Mediocrity, imagining themselves as "clever", never created and will not create either "Eugene Onegin", or "Ruslan and Lyudmila", or "Gavriliada", etc. Mediocrity without geniuses is degeneration.
                  2. kalibr
                    kalibr 13 May 2021 15: 47
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    about losing / not losing, there is Uzhi, and there is a Falcon ..

                    And smart people also know that a person should not build his happiness on the misfortune of others. It is immoral and unprincipled. The foolish admire the talents of immoral and unprincipled people and elevate their talents to the absolute, forgetting how much suffering and grief they brought to their loved ones.
  8. kalibr
    kalibr 13 May 2021 07: 31
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    By the way, how did the debts affect the attitude towards ... Kutuzov?

    I do not know. But how could he praise Nikolai like that? And he praised. Both. So ... he was flexible in his judgments. And how could he benefit from the praise of the Most Serene Prince? Yes, go and ask for debt! How can you refuse such a thing?
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 10: 10
      +1
      Yes, go and ask for debt! How can you refuse such a thing?

      Uh, no! stop It was useless to ask Kutuzov for a loan, Vyacheslav Olegovich! request He was "fabulously lucky" with his wife. belay I mean, she loved to live well. Moreover, a bunch of daughters, everyone needs clothes, balls and "get married" ... what As a result, the debts of the family of Mikhail Illarionovich, after his death, were ordered to be paid by the emperor himself - at the expense of the state ... hi
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 13 May 2021 10: 49
        +1
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        It was useless to ask Kutuzov for a loan,

        Didn't know that! But in life everything happened ...
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 11: 00
          +1
          Didn't know that! But in life everything happened ...

          From the wiki: The emperor retained the full support of her husband for Kutuzov's wife, and in 1814 ordered the Minister of Finance D.A. Guryev to issue more than 300 thousand rubles to pay off the debts of the commander's family.
          There is a monumental historical novel by the Soviet writer Rakovsky - "Kutuzov". It is freely available on the "militer". The author also alludes to the embezzler-spouse there. hi
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 13 May 2021 11: 16
        0
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        ... Moreover, a bunch of daughters, everyone needs clothes, balls and "get married" ...

        as many as FIVE daughters and not a single son.

        Not everyone can master this ...
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 12: 18
          +3
          as many as FIVE daughters

          The girls, by the way, turned out to be very cute. Exactly what - "breed", some common features are visible. But his wife was also a beauty. And from his son-in-law Leo Tolstoy wrote off the feat of Andrei Bolkonsky (with a banner) at Austerlitz. The book character has just survived, but Fyodor Tiesenhausen has not ...
      3. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 13 May 2021 11: 33
        +2
        By the way, you are in vain. Kutuzov was distinguished by a fair amount of hospitality, and it was in the style of the 18th century: he loved to gather a large company at dinner:
        "... He was kind, moderately condescending to others and generous; distinguished by hospitality, hospitality and cordiality, which is why he often needed funds. Although his disposition was cheerful, but secretive and distrustful." The parodist was also not bad, for which he suffered in his youth)
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 12: 00
          +2
          The parodist was also not bad, for which he suffered in his youth)

          EMNIP, blurted out something about Rumyantsev-Zadunaisky? That, by the way, in his youth was also distinguished by intricacy. hi
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 13 May 2021 12: 15
            +1
            yes, he mimicked him, the story is well-known). Actually, why did I get to the Crimea.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 13 May 2021 12: 16
              +2
              yes, he mimicked him, the story is well-known). Actually, why did I get to the Crimea.

              In principle, in the novel by Rakovsky it is also said approximately so. drinks
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 May 2021 08: 42
    +6
    It turns out that Kutuzov is a "eyewitness"?
    Colleagues, hello. Again, because of Valeria, she did not have time to say hello.
    We have a big holiday today: Valery twice. I have 20 minutes, and then I'll give it to the girls to read
  • depressant
    depressant 12 May 2021 09: 19
    +8
    I have a fair amount of magazines "Secrets of the XX century". At one time I bought, unable to do anything with my passion for information on paper. But it turned out that now it is difficult to find information in them, because for a long time. What am I doing?
    In one of the numbers, I could not remember in which one, the abandonment of Moscow by Napoleon was discussed. And also how I entered. There were 10 wounded Russian soldiers there. Abandoned. After reading it, I could not believe it. She suffered terribly, realizing that everyone died - killed, burned, subjected to bullying. And now, it turns out, the left wounded were 22, 7 thousand.
    The heart grows callous in the understanding that yes, there was no way to take it out, but the mind is bubbling. With the passage of time, I am increasingly not inclined to forgive the death of people, all the more so - such a death.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 12 May 2021 09: 22
      +4
      Every life is priceless.
      Now we are talking relatively calmly about the fire in Moscow.
      1. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 10: 13
        +3
        And life almost every day throws up new "mini-fires", and its quiet joy disappears, at least in the fact that today is as quiet as yesterday. And no longer attracts to jokes, and if you meet them, then out of politeness you say “ha-ha!”, But the gloominess of the planted victims forces them to pretend on themselves. What has changed since Napoleon's "visit" to Moscow? After all, I always try on historical events today. If a fact is given, then it should be interpreted, adapted to one's own needs. It's like trying on an old dress. And every time, for some reason, it turns out that the hard whalebone is surprisingly fit.
        1. Richard
          Richard 12 May 2021 11: 17
          +4
          It's like trying on an old dress. And every time for some reason it turns out that the hard whalebone is surprisingly fit.

          I loved the wrong ones
          Sharing your arms.
          I wore my sin
          Like a brocade dress.
          Everything is overgrown with reality
          Everything is covered with snow ...
          But that dress is mine
          Still not worn out. (C)
          1. depressant
            depressant 12 May 2021 11: 31
            +3
            Well, Dmitry, it doesn't look like you! I mean the style of the comment. But the times are such that you cannot say otherwise.

            This is what happens to me:
            my old friend doesn't come to me
            and go in the small vanity
            various wrong ones.
            And he doesn’t go around with anyone
            and also understands this
            and our discord is inexplicable
            and we both suffer with him.

            Almost Aesopian language, but this is Yevtushenko! wassat
            But where did you get "I loved none of those" with this annoying "neither", did not report on the charter. laughing ))))
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 May 2021 11: 57
          +2
          It is a little harder to find quiet joy in the city, but it is also possible.

          And in the forest, snakes crawl, birds sing.
          1. depressant
            depressant 12 May 2021 12: 00
            +2
            And Sergei crawls among the snakes and sings like a bird good ))))
            And further (((( wassat drinks ))))
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 12 May 2021 12: 30
              +2
              Why crawl? I just greeted and admired.
              1. depressant
                depressant 12 May 2021 12: 47
                +2
                Oh, Sergei ... Such a gloomy reaction ...
                Well, what can you do - the philosopher is offended!
                But I would agree to sing like a bird, and even tweet like a sparrow or a black crush! Yes, the Lord did not give the vocal cords the skill. And our ravens, the other day conferred and dumped. So are the sparrows. Tits are still there, but not enough. And suspicion crept in: kites! I saw it. Circling in the sky, mastering the area. And how the plum blossomed! The trees under the window are covered with white!
                1. Richard
                  Richard 12 May 2021 14: 31
                  +4
                  And how the plum blossomed!

                  Cape you fellow countrymen, and our plum blossoms. In the middle of May, so it has always been and will be.
                  In my yard, the grape nests have already come out of hibernation, the leaf has been released
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 12 May 2021 14: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: Richard
                    In my yard, the grape nests have already come out of hibernation, the leaf has been released

                    People are lucky: the grapes are growing!
                    It's the second day, as soon as the first leaves have generally climbed, it's already very late spring this year. hi
                  2. depressant
                    depressant 12 May 2021 15: 15
                    +1
                    And there is one tree by the path through the clearing. Or maybe it's a tall bush. When everyone else was still sprouting buds, it was already completely covered with leaves, as if it had not dropped them since last summer, and now it is covered with white inflorescences. Bird cherry?
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 12 May 2021 15: 42
                      +2
                      Most likely. The smell cannot be confused with anything.
                      The smell of a torn leaf is the same.
                      And then - black fruits.
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 12 May 2021 15: 50
                        +1
                        Yes, the fragrance is already everywhere. And I remember black little fruits from last summer. The children plucked them and ate them. Life goes on, interspersed with the blinding sun with soft clouds and rain. Here, I just knocked on the windowsill, and he is gone. But the stuffiness was gone.
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 12 May 2021 15: 51
                        +2
                        Rain and warmth. All in growth. And also blue honeysuckle blooms. Story.
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 12 May 2021 15: 54
                        +1
                        The bird cherry blossoms for a week and a half.
                        While it blooms, nothing beats it!
                        She spread her tents and tents
                        She raised her canopy, she is bright and white-faced. (C)
                2. Richard
                  Richard 12 May 2021 16: 05
                  +3
                  Judging by your description, it looks like a viburnum.
                  Here's mine.

                  The Terek Cossacks, according to ancient customs, have a viburnum - a symbol of love. She is usually planted at the house of a dear person, or on the graves of loved ones
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 12 May 2021 16: 11
                    +3
                    Quote: Richard
                    Judging by your description, it looks like a viburnum.
                    Here's mine.

                    Is this a bulldanesh?
                  2. Richard
                    Richard 12 May 2021 16: 12
                    +4
                    That's right, Your Excellency soldier
                    Kalina is a bulldane.
                  3. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 12 May 2021 16: 15
                    +3
                    Quote: Richard
                    Yes sir ,

                    I also have this growing, only of a more modest size: we still have the north.
                    Do you not eat her aphids? Last year I ate everything, to the last leaf, she really loves viburnum.
                  4. Richard
                    Richard 12 May 2021 16: 31
                    +3
                    I share the time-tested great-grandmother's recipe. To get rid of aphids on viburnum, you need to cut off the growth that grows closest to the roots at the end of the autumn period. It is in that place that eggs are laid for the winter. With the arrival of spring, when the bush has already begun to bloom, you need to shed the earthy space around the plant with hot, boiled and clean water.
                    After Easter, do not throw out the broth of onion peels, where the eggs were painted. And spray them with viburnum. Aphids hate this smell
                    She also made some kind of solution from ash, soap, and like tobacco. But, unfortunately, I don't remember how.
                    Best regards
                    Dmitriy
                  5. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 12 May 2021 16: 39
                    +3
                    Quote: Richard
                    I share the time-tested great-grandmother's recipe

                    Thank you, I sent the information to my wife.
                    And in principle, you can probably spray the bulldanesh with some kind of aphid chemistry? it is not edible, an ornamental plant, for beauty. hi
                  6. Richard
                    Richard 12 May 2021 16: 56
                    +3
                    How is it not edible? Very edible. Only very few berries. But we collect for a half-liter jar of jam. We have an ordinary bulldozer. And there is also a decorative variety, EMNIP-Rosium. Beauty is said to be indescribable, but the buds are sterile there, and they do not form ovaries.
                  7. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 12 May 2021 17: 01
                    +3
                    Quote: Richard
                    There are very few berries. But we collect for a half-liter jar of jam. We have an ordinary bulldozer. And there is also a decorative variety, EMNIP-Rosium.

                    There were no berries on it, probably we have a purely decorative version, we did not plant it ourselves, we got it from the previous owners of the site. But it blooms very beautifully.
                    There are berries on an ordinary viburnum, but we still have it small, there are not many berries. hi
                  8. depressant
                    depressant 12 May 2021 17: 28
                    +4
                    Viburnum grew in my grandmother's estate in the Kuban. The bunches were cut, and the formed bunches were hung in a large storage room under the ceiling. Kalina did not spoil! In winter, compote was cooked from it. For some reason, very sour. Did not love. And a couple of years ago, having found such bundles on sale, I nostalgically cooked compote - sweet! And the flat bones are still bitter.
                    Hmmm, it was ...
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 17: 15
        +3
        It looks like a boule-de-nej variety. It blooms beautifully, but there are no fruits.
      3. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 18: 48
        +3
        Much in life is beautiful, but fruitless. And the ugly, gray has increased vitality due to fertility.
      4. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 19: 28
        +3
        This is already a man. For nature, for example, terry lilac is a failure. For Lemoine, it's beautiful.

        By the way, he has many varieties named in honor of the military leaders.
      5. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 20: 04
        +2
        Going against nature, Lemoine created numerous lilac masterpieces.

        Digging into the roots of history with subsequent conclusions is an example of fruitless selection to develop a favorable image of the present. What's the catch?
      6. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 20: 41
        +3
        There is no catch. The laws are general. The person does not change that much.
      7. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 21: 05
        +2
        You think so?
        And in my opinion, we are like a tree - what is grafted, it grows. I looked at its historical roots aspen, and then there was an oak tree.
      8. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 21: 10
        +2
        You can graft on something similar. And the hand should be light.
        And "oranges will not be born from the aspen."

        Oak tastes good.
      9. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 21: 29
        +2
        That is, you are proposing a different model. They grafted an orange into the aspen. An aspen branch has grown, smelling of an orange. I looked for my roots, found aspen ones. No, the branch cried, there must be the roots of an orange tree, the origin of the aspen is shameful! And the aspen answered her, give, they say, a harvest of oranges with seeds, those seeds will sprout into fragrant orange trees, then they can be told that they originated from oranges. But no matter how much the aspen branch, smelling of orange, did not strain, it did not bloom with orange blossom. The gardener looked at this case and cut it down. So that there is no reminder of a failed experiment.
        So?
      10. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 21: 38
        +3
        Vaccinated on relatives. Common lilac can be grafted onto Hungarian lilacs and even privet.

        Siberian or Korean cedar pine can be grafted onto Scots pine. Only the scion will begin to grow in diameter faster than the rootstock, and will not live at all for a long time. But the cones can have time to grow.


        I'm not sure that the concept of "shame" is widespread in the world of animals and plants.
      11. depressant
        depressant 12 May 2021 22: 43
        +2
        I don't know about plants, but animals, living next to humans for thousands of years, gradually developed "facial features", as well as vocal signals that help them express emotions that are understandable to humans with facial expressions and voice. So far, they are doing poorly, but they are trying. For example, adult cats do not talk to each other using "meow" - only to humans. Foxes have been domesticated recently, their muzzles, even when living in a family, do not express anything, only open their mouths. Dogs are able to voice a complaint to an understanding person about the injustice of fate.
      12. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 May 2021 03: 27
        +3
        I believe in the facial features of the domesticated. But, as you said yourself, it was not without a person.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 12 May 2021 15: 40
    +2
    If a philosopher is offended - so-so a philosopher.

    The bird cherry blossoms.
    "And I will break off the lilac too" (c).
    1. depressant
      depressant 12 May 2021 15: 56
      +2
      Oh, we broke lilacs before. We drove them. She took part in the persecution. They stopped.
    2. Richard
      Richard 12 May 2021 17: 11
      +3
      The bird cherry blossoms.
      "And I'll break off the lilac too" (c)

      Sergey, hello. wink
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 May 2021 17: 16
        +3
        Okay. I will shear with pruners. Carefully.
        1. Richard
          Richard 12 May 2021 17: 19
          +3
          To the very root laughing
        2. depressant
          depressant 12 May 2021 18: 50
          +2
          And the root will sprout. Hence the concept of "uprooting".
        3. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 May 2021 19: 26
          +3
          Lilacs are well renewed in growth.
        4. depressant
          depressant 12 May 2021 20: 22
          +2
          Uprooted? Even lilacs will not grow without a root. Therefore, everyone is looking for their historical roots. The roots are found, there are few overgrowths.
        5. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 May 2021 20: 44
          +3
          Of course not. Dmitry answered.

          Growth regeneration in different species is: pneumatic shoots, Root suckers, layering and rhizomes.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 12 May 2021 09: 57
    +3
    There were 10 wounded Russian soldiers there. Abandoned. After reading it, I could not believe it. She suffered terribly, realizing that everyone died - killed, burned, subjected to bullying. And now, it turns out, the left wounded were 22, 7 thousand.

    Without denying the fact itself, the numbers raise doubts. The victims of the Second World War cannot still be counted, and the further from the war, the greater the loss. And in Chechnya, it is not known how many died, several thousand unidentified corpses were buried in unmarked graves.
    And here, after 200 years, they give out numbers with an accuracy of hundreds of people. Where did it come from?
    Historians did not come to a consensus, how many people came together in the battle at Borodino, how can you count how many wounded were there?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • BAI
    BAI 12 May 2021 09: 23
    +5
    Traces of the battle in Maloyaroslavets still remain.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 12 May 2021 11: 58
      +1
      In general, this road is very "talking".
  • vladcub
    vladcub 12 May 2021 09: 35
    +5
    "on his way he did not leave behind not only a single cannon, but not even a single cart," and it was no less difficult for Barclay than for Kutuzov ..
    In the Russian army there was an unwritten rule: when retreating, the convoy and the wounded, if possible, do not leave
    1. depressant
      depressant 12 May 2021 10: 55
      +2
      Napoleon no longer chased the retreating Russian army, and the French army was greedily mired in looting, entangled in a fire. The Russian troops who had gone outside Moscow could no longer leave the wounded, those who could be taken out. And a few days later a circle of large radius with the center in Moscow was drawn - a circle almost completely devoid of provisions. And then Napoleon faced a difficult question: in Moscow, the French had time to gobble up and drink everything, and also to the eyeballs were loaded with good, who could do anything - good that every soldier was sorry to abandon, and the army carrying "good" with them - is it capable? And if you move after the retreating Russian, then you need to throw the loot and then go east through the hungry desert within the boundaries of the outlined unfavorable circle, starve and freeze. And having approached its borders, to meet a less hungry and already mobilized army. The decision to go back in a radius to the west gave a head start on the flight. So they moved back, carrying "good" with them. They say that ethnographers and archaeologists still find small valuable items that the French carried away from Moscow along the retreat path. In excavations and rural houses.

      But why did Napoleon not immediately go to St. Petersburg? Because the task was to defeat the Russian army. Where she is, there he is. The Russian army, retreating in front of superior enemy forces, moved towards Moscow, leading the enemy away from the capital.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 May 2021 10: 49
    0
    The girls "left in the power of the enemy" were interested in the main question: what is the fate of the wounded left behind? And another question: "and not one wounded", perhaps Barclay de Tolle's army did not have military clashes?
    1. VLR
      12 May 2021 11: 08
      +3
      Clausewitz wrote about Barclay's movement to Vitebsk:
      “It is difficult to understand why General Barclay made his march to Vitebsk so slowly. Then they said that it was for the purpose give time for the baggage trains to go ahead; this is the reason, as well as, perhaps, the vague idea of ​​proportioning your march with the enemy's march and not clearing the territory to a greater extent than is necessary. "
      And, of course, there were clashes. On July 25, for example, Murat attacked the rearguard of Ostermann-Tolstoy. And others, smaller ones.
    2. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 12 May 2021 16: 05
      0
      left the wounded under Barclay, of course. In Smolensk, many were abandoned, for example, and quite a few people were burned to death.
      However, the main threat to the wounded of that time was the lack of medical assistance and care, food ... If you are lucky enough to find a place with relatives or just compassionate owners - good.
      There was no system of sanitary evacuation as such (although the system of hospitals already existed). In addition, carrying a wounded person tens of miles on a peasant cart along a broken road is practically tantamount to ruining him.
      Nevertheless, many survived and returned to the ranks (you can judge from the formal lists - there are unique ones with a dozen wounds and contusions).
      Leaving the wounded at the mercy of the enemy is a fairly common practice in the 18-19th century. With European armies, this could work just fine. Suvorov, after the Alpine campaign, also left the wounded and sick with the freed French prisoners - just in order to give them a chance to survive.
  • nonsense
    nonsense 12 May 2021 11: 41
    +2
    The Battle of Maloyaroslavets is a complete copy of the Battle of Borodino. In it, the Russian army demonstrated the same lack of control, the inability of the officers to command the units and subunits entrusted to them. The headquarters of the Russian army are sanatoriums for noble dons where everyone was just having fun and no one was responsible for anything. And what is most important is the officer did not want to learn anything! The Russian army of the 1812 model does not differ in any way from the Russian army of the 1854-55 model. And if in 1812, thanks to solely courage (and huge losses, but not the ability to fight), the Russian army was still able to win, then forty years later, with the improvement of weapons, this became impossible - there were continuous defeats in wars ... ...
    PS: the author mistakenly points out that, like, during the "Moscow sitting" the French army was decomposing and the Russian was getting stronger. Not at all! The Russian army, during its time in Tarutino, disintegrated in the same way! Its soldiers were looting in the vicinity, and desertion reached enormous proportions. The officers drank and played "politics" ... It is enough to read the memoirs of these same officers and generals ...
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 12: 19
      +6
      Quote: nespich
      The Battle of Maloyaroslavets is a complete copy of the Battle of Borodino.
      Reread your comment. Highlight the facts with which you operate. Check them again. Draw conclusions, drink the poison. fool
      That's all I wanted to say. request
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 12 May 2021 14: 21
        +4
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Draw conclusions, drink the poison.

        You can still run against the wall ...
      2. nonsense
        nonsense 12 May 2021 14: 47
        -3
        Turn on the brain. The facts are as follows: both at Borodino and at Maloyaroslavets, the Russian army demonstrated its corporate style of fighting in the 18-19 centuries - a complete loss of command and control on the battlefield and command to all and sundry. As a consequence of this "art of war" - huge losses in any battle above the level of the division.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 14: 54
          +5
          The facts are as follows: both battles developed according to one of the possible scenarios envisaged by the Russian commander-in-chief, who responded in time to changes in the situation, without losing control of the battle.
          As a result, in neither case did the enemy army fulfill the tasks assigned by their commander-in-chief.
          And you really, probably better against the wall. laughing
          1. nonsense
            nonsense 12 May 2021 15: 03
            -4
            funny ... The Russian commander-in-chief all Borodino just chilled - old age (read the memoirs of the participants). And under Maloyaroslavets, there was no Kutuzov at all ...
            And it's too late for you to turn on your brain ...
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 15: 18
              +4
              Do not talk about what you don’t know, don’t know how, and didn’t try. I mean turn on the brain.
      3. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 12 May 2021 19: 09
        +2
        Michael, however, you "caring" recommend poison, and the "sailor" is easier to run against the wall. I would suggest: drowning is the most affordable and painless
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 12 May 2021 20: 06
          0
          I changed my mind - I agreed with my older friend. smile
          I'm afraid I won't be able to drown myself in front of this frame. request
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 13 May 2021 15: 09
            0
            It is all the more doubtful that he wants his head against the wall.
  • Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 12 May 2021 13: 38
    -1
    True, there was also Captain Kaisarov, but he did not have the right to vote and performed the functions of a secretary.

    True, Paisiy Kaisarov was a major general.
    For the rest - well, Troitsky's synopsis and a set of quotes from contemporaries is better, of course, than just Wikipedia.
    However, the author will start charging Gumilevism there, you will see.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 14: 04
      +3
      True, Paisiy Kaisarov was a major general.

      Nikita, I did not find his track record, except for the one who finished the service. At the time of his arrival in the army, along with Kutuzov, according to Barclay, he was a colonel. drinks
      "Soon after the prince's arrival, he was surrounded by a crowd of idle people, including many of those who had been sent by me from the army. I saw him only when the Grand Duke sent me with some kind of assignment); he was followed by Colonel Kaisarovthinking that as a confidante and pimp he had no less right to command the army. " (Barclay, "Image of military action ...")
      Members of "Kutuzov's working team" pissed off Mikhail Bogdanovich! hi
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 12 May 2021 14: 29
        +5
        If you are interested, please:
        "... He entered the service as a sergeant in 1791, April 21, in the L.-Guards Preobrazhensky regiment;
        promoted to ensign, in the fourteenth year of age, 1797, January 22;
        transferred to the Yaroslavl Infantry Regiment;
        determined as a parade-de-camp in Moscow in 1798, May 6;
        promoted to second lieutenant in 1798, October 5;
        lieutenant 1800, September 19;
        staff captain 1803, January 12;
        voluntarily dismissed from service 1805, January 9; appointed at the same time to the department of the Ministry of Commerce, for the foreign part;
        accepted into the Izyum hussar regiment as staff-captain and appointed adjutant to Prince Golenishchev-Kutuzov, who was at that time in St. Petersburg, 1805, August 14;
        for the difference shown in the battles during the campaign of 1805, he was transferred to the L.-Guards. Semyonovsky regiment as a lieutenant in 1806, January 30;
        promoted to staff captain 1807, December 11;
        captain 1809, June 2;
        Colonel 1811, October 5;
        major general 1812, August 26;
        appointed chief of the Sevastopol infantry regiment, 1812, October 5;
        commander of the 2nd brigade of the 23rd Infantry Division, 1815, October 11;
        Chief of Staff of the 1st Infantry Corps, 1819, April 6;
        transferred to the retinue of His Imperial Majesty in the quartermaster department 1819, April 22; appointed chief of the 14th Infantry Division, 1821, September 20;
        promoted to lieutenant general in 1826, January 1;
        appointed senator 1826, December 6; Consisting in the army, he was appointed chief of the main staff of the army in 1829, March 22;
        transferred to the general staff in 1829, March 29;
        appointed commander of the 3rd Infantry Corps 1831, March 13;
        appointed commander of the 5th Infantry Corps 1831, October 6;
        promoted to general of infantry 1833, December 6;
        appointed commander of the 4th Infantry Corps 1835, May 12.
        Formulary list for 1841. (Book of form lists No. 5733.)
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 14: 34
          +1
          Major General 1812, August 26

          It turns out that he became a general already under the commander - Kutuzov. Which, in principle, is logical! what Thank you! drinks
          1. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 12 May 2021 14: 50
            +3
            Yes, although in fairness I will note that some sources give the date of production to the rank of major general - February 1813. In any case, he was not a captain, and he could not be, correcting the post of general on duty.
            As for the wounded, their abandonment is a real and regrettable fact. However, a centralized evacuation service simply did not exist, and many of them were not transportable. A significant part of the wounded left survived (the officers were more fortunate, of course). Moreover, the French then did the same. Here is an excerpt from the memoirs of Warrant Officer Norov of the Guards Artillery: "... At about noon the doors of the neighboring chamber opened, and a whole procession of Frenchmen in dressing gowns and on crutches, who could only get out of bed, appeared in front of us. One of them came out in front and said us: “Messieurs, jusgu'a present vous eties nos prisonniers; nous allons bientot devenir les votres. Vous n'avez pas sans doute, messieurs, a vous plaindre du traitement que vous avez essuye; permettez-nous d'esperer la meme chose de votre part "(Gentlemen, until now you have been our captives, soon we will be yours. You, of course, cannot complain about us, let us hope for mutual relations). The war of 1812 was a very brutal conflict, but the brutality and bestiality of the 20th century was still far away.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 15: 09
              +3
              Gentlemen, until now you have been our captives, soon we will be yours. You, of course, cannot complain about us, let us hope for mutual relations

              A stupid, reasonable act! hi However, there were cases of executions of our prisoners on the march. Moreover, this was done not only by the French, but also by the Germans, and the executions themselves were organized ... On the other hand, our partisans and flying detachments also did not bother too much about prisoners from the Napoleonic army. We will not disassemble the aforementioned Figner, I hope such an opportunity will appear soon! drinks
              The war of 1812 was a very brutal conflict, but the brutality and bestiality of the 20th century was still far away.

              Perhaps the only relatively humane was the Russian-Japanese ... what
              warrant officer of the guards artillery

              Guards artillery originates from the Bombardier Company of the Preobrazhensky Regiment, founded by Peter the Great. During the 18th century, the company was either expelled from the regiment, then added back. Pavel Petrovich finally resolved the issue, transferring her to the Life Guards Artillery Battalion, on the basis of which the artillery guards brigade later grew.
              In general, the more I try to understand about the "evolution" of our guard in the 18th century, the more I understand - the devil himself will break his leg ... recourse
              1. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 12 May 2021 15: 48
                +3
                We will not disassemble the aforementioned Figner, I hope such an opportunity will appear soon!

                I highly recommend the recently published Notes of Nikolai Muravyov-Karsky. Very well written and full of little appetizing details, memories of 1812. This is another very modest episode:
                "... Our Cossacks amused themselves with the dead: they stuck them with their heads in the snow, feet up, apart, put them on top of each other, put them in rows against the walls of buildings, made groups of them, harnessed frozen bodies to the French guns left on the road, seated them by several people in abandoned carriages and droshky. Passing through Oshmyany, I saw one house on two floors without window frames and without doors, but in every window stood, leaning on the edge, four frozen Frenchmen ... "
                Where there is still.
                In general, the more I try to understand about the "evolution" of our guard in the 18th century, the more I understand - the devil himself will break his leg ...

                It's just that the guard in the 18th century is not so much a fighting force as a personnel and political one.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 16: 03
                  +4
                  I highly recommend the recently published Notes of Nikolai Muravyov-Karsky.

                  Incidentally, they can also be found in the Russian Archive. Website: https://runivers.ru/ They exist for 1885. There were three volumes, in which Karsky's notes - I don't remember, but too lazy to leaf through. But last week I enjoyed the "brainchild" of Karsky's brother - Muravyov-Vilensky. I mean, I visited Staraya Russa, and drank mineral water ... drinks good
                  This is another very modest episode:

                  We had fun as best we could ... No.
                  It's just that the guard in the 18th century is not so much a fighting force as a personnel and political one.

                  This is understandable. yes According to the formations-re-formations continuous confusion, each new tsar changed something! request
                2. vladcub
                  vladcub 12 May 2021 17: 00
                  +3
                  What is one: "label company". At one time, under Peter 1, they were normal soldiers, and under Elizabeth they completely lost their lives.
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 17: 16
                    +3
                    At one time, under Peter 1, they were normal soldiers, and under Elizabeth they completely lost their lives.

                    So, under Peter, they, in the main, fought. Although "Vika" writes that the guard detachment also took part in Minich's campaigns.
                    What is one: "label company".

                    The grenadier company of the Transfiguration, with the help of which Elizabeth bloodlessly took power into her paws. Participants received a bunch of buns, and non-nobles - hereditary (!) Nobility. Her nephew then dispersed the life company, but Catherine had already assigned the former employees of the company to the cavalry guards.
                    Svyatoslav, here's another interesting sketch. wink Life Guards Izmailovsky and Horse Regiments were created on the advice of wise Minich - as an alternative to the two "Petrovsky" regiments, just in case of fire - read, coup. yes
                    But ... the rebellion of Catherine, EMNIP, began precisely in the Izmailovsky regiment? laughing And the chief of the Horse Guards, the uncle of the unfortunate emperor, Georg Holstein-Gottorp, pulled them up so much that they broke into his palace, took away the sword, broke all the mirrors (simultaneously opening the wine cellar), and beat the "dearest patron" himself so that he recalled a very long time... angry Here she is .. "the throne support"! And there was no need to annoy! request
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 13 May 2021 15: 11
      +1
      I like Gumelev as a poet.
  • Ulrih
    Ulrih 12 May 2021 14: 11
    +1
    What a mess ...
    Firstly, where did the data come from that the Russians did not leave the wounded to Moscow (unfortunately, the normal practice of those times for any army)? In the same Smolensk, there are a lot of references in the memoirs of the French that it was scary to enter the city, since everywhere on the road were burned wounded who were trying to escape from the Smolensk fire.
    Secondly, at Maloyaroslavets, Napoleon was not going to give general battles. He had to throw back the Russian army in order to retreat more calmly to Smolensk, where he was going to spend the winter (this is clearly evidenced by the orders given by Napoleon back in Moscow). As a result, initially this happened because Kutuzov after Maloyaroslavets retreated further and did not disturb the French for several days.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 12 May 2021 16: 52
    0
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you very much!

    Probably sorted out the valens?
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 May 2021 17: 16
      +1
      Probably sorted out the valens?

      Catnip ... wink drinks
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 12 May 2021 20: 27
        +1
        I did not pay attention to mint, but valerian is yes. I also know that cats are crazy about Bulldonezh, more precisely from the juice of a flower
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik 12 May 2021 17: 53
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    the great army remained almost entirely in Russia.

    And who else did you fight in Europe for a year and a half? With pitiful leftovers?
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 12 May 2021 20: 29
      +3
      Quote: Tavrik
      Quote: Olgovich
      the great army remained almost entirely in Russia.

      And who else did you fight in Europe for a year and a half? With pitiful leftovers?

      Olgovich so wants Kutuzov to subdue the whole army in Russia
    2. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 13 May 2021 11: 40
      -1
      Napoleon recreated the Grand Army for the main campaign of 1813 using the following elements:
      1. Operational recruitment of recruits (see "concription") - this made it possible to restore the number of infantry, however, with a noticeable drop in its quality. With the cavalry, this trick did not work - the training cycle is longer;
      2. Attracting soldiers from among the garrisons and rear units (one division was formed from parts of, so to speak, the coast guard);
      3. Units transferred from Spain (there were about 1812 thousand French soldiers there in 250, by the way, there were almost more Frenchmen there than in the group that invaded Russia).
      4. Attracting contingents of European allies, mainly small German states (the Saxons brought him under the monastery near Leipzig).
  • kalibr
    kalibr 13 May 2021 08: 44
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    Therefore, you will not understand it.

    How to understand a person suffering from gambling addiction?
  • Lieutenant
    Lieutenant 20 May 2021 11: 54
    0
    Napoleon's soldiers were strong guys, they knew how to fight. In the French army there was no corporal punishment, everything was done so that everyone from officer to private felt a sense of their own dignity, unlike Russian recruits - flogged serfs. The officer corps was not class-based. It was about the French army that they said that each soldier in his knapsack carries a marshal's baton. And the military art of Napoleon generally stands at an unattainable height for the tsarist generals-lackeys. All this suggests that the campaign of 1812 was unsuccessful for the French emperor due to a combination of circumstances.