Military Review

Victory Price. Losses of the Great Patriotic War

106
Victory Price. Losses of the Great Patriotic War

The stories about the disproportionately large losses of the Red Army in 1941-1945 have long become a kind of base on the basis of which myths about the inferiority of the Soviet people in general and the state in particular are piled up. And these myths are dangerous. The stories about the filling up of corpses are not hitting the communist ideology, not Stalin, they are hitting the Russian people. What to call people who allow themselves to drive on machine guns with a rifle for three? What should you call such a nation? This is not to mention the fact that it was not the Martians who drove?


And yet even ordinary everyday logic says - all this is impossible purely physically. It is impossible to drive more than ten million armed people to certain death, it is easier for them to turn around and tear up the beaters. But there were no riots in the Red Army, and there could not have been. Because there were no detachments with machine guns (in the form shown in agitation). There were no commissars with moronic orders and other horrors of the perestroika era. There was a war and there were casualties. But which ones are a matter of statistics.

Losses


To begin with, it's worth thinking - what are losses in general?

They are different. Here are prisoners of war - this is also a loss. But captivity does not mean that a person is dead? Major General Mikhail Ivanovich Potapov was captured, returned, commanded the army and the district, rose to the rank of colonel-general, died 20 years after the war. And he's not the only one. There were many of them.

There are also sanitary losses. And they don't have to be wounded. For example, life in a wet stinking pit called a trench does not add health, a person gets nephritis or pneumonia, he is sent to a hospital and, as expected, is included in the list of sanitary losses. And then there are injuries, there are clean wounds. Some front-line soldiers were wounded three or four times. And if we count the total losses, then we can reach tens of millions, or even more.

Again, there are losses of servicemen, and there are losses of civilians. And don't be confused. The latter have nothing to do with hostilities. They are connected with the infamous Ost plan. We did not exterminate the Germans, so they have overall losses and less. They also waged a war with the aim of destroying the Soviet people.

And then there are direct losses, and there are demographic ones. And these are also different things. Demographic is when we count how many people should have been by the end of the war, given a normal birth rate. To put it simply - the registration of unborn children.
There are a lot of all these nuances. And you can play with these details as you like. Here comes the wild numbers. If you wish, of course.

We consider, for example, demographic losses, coupled with sanitary and plus losses of the civilian population. And we write - 50 million. Here are the bastards-communists of the people put something ... But this is a deception. Moreover, a deception that has long been refuted. There are studies by Krivosheev. There are data from the Ministry of Defense and Rosstat.

It's just that the numbers are small and boring, it's easier to read something like that. Moreover, the number of losses was constantly floating.

Accounting problems


And the problem of accounting for combat losses in 1941-1942 was. And it is caused by purely objective reasons.

How is the roll-by-name record of losses kept? Unit commanders are sending casualty reports upstairs. There they summarize, send even higher. And so on until the People's Commissariat of Defense. But if the unit was surrounded and died, then the papers also perish, which are saved in the last turn. Consequently, loss reports also perish.

In 1941-1942, boilers were rather the norm. And dozens of dead armies could not send any reports for purely technical reasons.

There remains an approximate method: there were so many, so many broke through ... But it does not say anything. Some of the encircled people joined the partisans, some settled in the villages. There were prisoners. And all these people remained alive and fought further. Again, where to carry the wounded killed by the Germans in hospitals? Militias, policemen, partisans?

And it is very difficult to put things in order in this kind of accounting, especially on the issue of prisoners of war. How many died? The question is complex. The Germans did not bother observing the conventions. Soviet prisoners of war were not considered people. They were fed to a minimum, they were practically not provided with medical care, hence the increased mortality.

As a result, the loss of prisoners was approximately:

“In total, 4059 Soviet servicemen were held captive, and about 500 died in the battles, although according to reports from the fronts, they were counted as missing. In addition, in the initial period of the war, the enemy captured about 500 thousand persons liable for military service, called up for mobilization, but not enlisted in the troops. "

4,5 million prisoners of war are not only military personnel. The Germans had a habit of placing detained civilians in the category of prisoners ... with all that it implies.

According to German data:

3,3 million Soviet prisoners of war died in German captivity (Streit C. Keine Kameraden: Die Wehrmacht und die sowjetischen Kriegsgefangenen. 1941-1945).

And this, again, the figure is inaccurate, because the dead in the camps are taken into account. And at least half a million prisoners did not make it to the camps, they were killed just on the way. The figure of 3,8 million people killed by the Germans prisoners, it is creepy. But it does not work to attribute it to the art of war. By the end of the war, we also had millions of prisoners. It's just that we, being human beings, did not kill them.

Combat losses


They are known more or less precisely - 6329,6 thousand people.

According to Krivosheev, the total loss of the Red Army 11441000 people. There are alternative figures, some amount to 12 million, but no more. You have to understand that this is all - those killed in battles and from accidents, shot (160 thousand), died in captivity, missing.

The figure is scary. But the enemy has:

the irretrievable human losses of fascist Germany on the Soviet-German front amounted to about 7 million people (including Austria, Luxembourg, Alsace, Lorraine, Sudeten Germans, voluntary formations from other states) and its allies (Hungary, Italy, Romania and Finland) - more than 1,7, XNUMX million people.

Which is quite comparable to our losses. And this is quite logical. We had 1941-1942, the Germans had 1944-1945.

There is controversy about the missing. But for the war, this, alas, is a common thing. Here you need to understand that in conflicts of such a scale, both demographic and geographical, it will never be possible to count to a person. Neither we nor them.

For understanding. The rifle division of the Red Army in 1941 is 14500 people in the state. And only our losses on the battlefield - more than 400 rifle divisions in four years. And the total losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht are twice as high as all losses in the First World War. If we add that the citizens of the USSR were not considered people for the Germans, and they normally did not bury the same bodies of Soviet servicemen, and often did not bury them at all, then the disputes will go on for a very long time, if not forever.

And it's good if these are scientific disputes, in the style of Zemskov's dispute with Krivosheev's data. But usually it slides into anti-Russian propaganda with fantastic numbers, sucked out of thin air.

Meanwhile, the level of our losses clearly shows only one thing - the strength of our state and the strength of our people.

Having lost a cadre army and a huge territory, we did not surrender, we did not arrange the collapse of the state. They got to their feet and won. And those who fell into millions of losses died precisely in order for us to reach Berlin.

And we still will not be able to fully evaluate the feat of rebuilding the army during the war practically from scratch, while restoring the lost part of the industry, in the face of the enemy's offensive on all fronts. Simply because - you can understand this, but realize - no. The task was too overwhelming, on the verge of impracticable.

And our grandfathers, great-grandfathers, coped with that task. Even at this price. Taking a comparable price from the aggressor.
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  1. SERGE ANT
    SERGE ANT 9 May 2021 05: 24
    +30
    Eternal memory and eternal glory. No one is forgotten, nothing is forgotten.
    1. depressant
      depressant 9 May 2021 05: 37
      +24
      Dear colleague, Happy Holidays! love )))
      It hurts a lot today. Previously, this was not the case on this day. I remembered my departed.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 9 May 2021 05: 54
        +21
        Happy Victory Day!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 May 2021 06: 01
          +18
          I join the guys and girls! Truly a holiday with tears in your eyes.
          Regards, Vlad!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 9 May 2021 06: 08
            +19
            One of those holidays that unite everyone.
            1. SERGE ANT
              SERGE ANT 9 May 2021 09: 09
              +13
              Quote: Korsar4
              One of those holidays that unite everyone.

              As for me, he is the only one of all ...
              1. Civil
                Civil 9 May 2021 09: 25
                +9
                Happy Victory Day, comrades! I do not congratulate the gentlemen and their servants, for the gentlemen, the fighters of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army did not fight. For obvious reasons.
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 9 May 2021 10: 58
                +8
                New Year is also for everyone.
                1. Vladimir Mashkov
                  Vladimir Mashkov 10 May 2021 18: 03
                  +2
                  A wonderful article with a minimum of the necessary numbers! The losses of the USSR are so great that they fought with by the fascists! The idea is simple, but somehow many have forgotten about it!
                  1. Zakirov Damir
                    Zakirov Damir 10 May 2021 22: 31
                    +3
                    Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                    A wonderful article with a minimum of the necessary numbers! The losses of the USSR are so great that they fought with by the fascists! The idea is simple, but somehow many have forgotten about it!

                    The losses are comparable, at least the military losses. It is depressing that no one really understands Krivosheev's data.
            2. Alien From
              Alien From 9 May 2021 13: 15
              +7
              I join in all the congratulations! Eternal memory to all soldiers and home front workers! hi hi hi
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 9 May 2021 11: 38
          +6
          I join, with the Holiday of all, dear friends! soldier
      2. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 9 May 2021 06: 34
        +11
        And our grandfathers, great-grandfathers, coped with that task.
        There is also my daddy's contribution ...
        Happy Holiday!
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 9 May 2021 07: 36
          +10
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          And our grandfathers, great-grandfathers, coped with that task.
          There is also my daddy's contribution ...
          Happy Holiday!

          Happy Holidays! My grandfather left to fight at the age of 16. Sidorov Pyotr Mikhailovich, Kaluga region, village Makarovo
        2. Khibiny Plastun
          Khibiny Plastun 9 May 2021 08: 25
          +11
          My great-grandfather from my mother’s side left with 8 brothers, not one did not return, he was buried in a brother’s room near Veliky Novgorod. His paternal grandfather went through the entire War, from 44 to 46 he crumbled Bandera's underdogs, his brother died in Silesia.
          And so many people from the former Soviet Union.
          1. Artyom Karagodin
            Artyom Karagodin 9 May 2021 15: 50
            +9
            I heard that Rasul Gamzatov wrote his "Cranes" about one of these families where all his sons died. And when the last funeral was handed over to his father, his heart could not stand it.

            One of my grandfathers burned down in a tank near Moscow, the other fought the whole war in artillery. He was in 1900, fought in the Civil War, so he went to the front in 41. He defended the Caucasus, reached Berlin, was wounded and shell-shocked. I never told anyone about the war. Only got upset in response to questions.

            "There is no family in Russia where your hero would not be remembered ..."
            1. Uncle lee
              Uncle lee 10 May 2021 07: 27
              +4
              Quote: Artyom Karagodin
              I never told anyone about the war

              My dad too, so, a few words ... We retreated, advanced ... hi
              1. alstr
                alstr 10 May 2021 13: 05
                +4
                My grandfather was a submariner in the Baltic. He rarely told me that either. He told me more that he ran on dances on leave.
                My grandmother as a nurse at 16 volunteered for the front. And only at the end of her life she began to tell at least something. And then only my sister. She practically didn't tell us anything.
        3. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 10 May 2021 18: 05
          +1
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          There is also my daddy's contribution ...
          Happy Holiday!

          Happy last holiday! Both my father and father-in-law fought. And ten more relatives.
      3. Cheshire
        Cheshire 9 May 2021 07: 20
        +4
        Quote: depressant
        It hurts a lot today. Previously, this was not the case on this day. I remembered my departed.

        love
        Happy holiday, dear! Over time, with age, you especially understand that a holiday with tears in your eyes. Kind, eternal memory of our grandfathers and grandmothers, God grant everyone the strength to become at least somewhat like them.
        hi
        1. depressant
          depressant 9 May 2021 07: 57
          +10
          Thank you, dear colleague! hi
          Happy holiday to all those present!
          The past year has been sad, difficult, and with it something important has gone, the remnants of some illusion, replaced by understanding, such that does not lead to the development of correct decisions, but only takes away mental strength. How I loved the Victory Parade - my main holiday! And today I look out the window, and the sky is gray dregs. I want the sun! Look out, break the veil of thin clouds!
          And now, right now, as soon as these lines crawled out from under my sleepy fingers, the sun seemed to hear me, blinked with a searchlight, turned on for a few seconds, and again wrapped itself in a gray opaque veil ...
          Look out, finally! Look out and shine, we all need your bright, warm light so much.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 May 2021 09: 22
            +10
            I will share the sun.

            First time after ten days of rain.
            Happy Victory Day, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
            Happy Victory Day, friends!
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 9 May 2021 10: 59
              +7
              Share more. Suddenly it will reach us, without delay.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 9 May 2021 11: 08
                +6
                Come, come! We promise +25 on Tuesday.
          2. BAI
            BAI 9 May 2021 17: 36
            +4
            In any case, in the spring, in any weather, it is better than this:

            Here the girls really had a hard time. One piece of clothing weighs.
      4. SERGE ANT
        SERGE ANT 9 May 2021 09: 05
        +10
        Such is he, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, This holiday ... with tears in his eyes ... Ours have long gone all who fought - both grandfathers, and our uncles with my brothers, and brothers and cousins ​​of parents ... We will live in memory of them .And we have the sun in the morning, the sky is clear, clear, the weather is extremely wonderful - one pity that the Immortal Regiment will not be ... Happy Great Holiday of all!
    2. Finches
      Finches 9 May 2021 06: 12
      +3
      Happy Victory Day !!! The memory of the fallen heroes is eternal!

      The falsification of losses in the Second World War, which began with Khrushchev, was picked up by Solzhenitsyn, who generally played with numbers, as God put it on his soul, calling at first 40 million, then, apparently, someone suggested that it was painfully implausible, he reduced it to 31 ... Then the liberals joined - revisionists of all stripes, who did not wait for a "white" European man on the streets of Moscow! Like an offended Kovalev with his sabotage nonsense about millions of German women raped by soldiers of the Red Army! To blacken the Soviet system, to spit their poisonous liberal saliva into the heroic generation, to accuse the people of their inability to rule the country and fight, they overestimate the irrecoverable losses of the USSR. .Here the author correctly noted. And then all this is picked up by national traitors from the upper echelons of power, such as Gorbachev, and lies are already broadcast at the state level ... As a result, the Great Red Empire goes into oblivion of history! Today they continue their dirty work calling the Great Day the dirty word "victory", with the same purpose - to destroy Russia to please their overseas masters! Tough measures are required here - you consider May 9 to be "victorious" I ask you to spend 25 years in Kolyma! Otherwise, tomorrow we will start hanging poppies on the 8th, as in some adjacent territories, which have become Anglo-Saxon colonies, which sold memory and their own honor for lace panties!
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 9 May 2021 06: 47
        +7
        Quote: Finches
        "Pobedobesie", with the same purpose - to destroy Russia to please its overseas masters! Tough measures are required here - you consider May 9 to be "victorious" I ask you to spend 25 years in Kolyma! Otherwise, tomorrow we will start hanging poppies on the 8th, as in some adjacent territories, which have become Anglo-Saxon colonies, selling memory and their own honor for lace panties

        So don't give in to them. Everyone, around him, patiently tell the truth, expose the lie, preserve our Fatherland. And the Victory Day - as it is celebrated now - is a great help in this.
        Happy Victory Day!
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 9 May 2021 08: 09
          +5
          "... patiently tell the truth .."
          That's right!
          It is necessary to give a "shock" to all sorts of villains - the current enemies of Russia
          Losses in battles are really great, but sometimes they were unjustified.
          But ... losses alone cannot win a war.
          We need the heroism of the people, the art of war, and the government of the country, which will make it possible to create a single military camp and ensure the material defeat of the enemy.
          With all this, there is no need to varnish, as G.K. said. Zhukov and bring the history of the war to those who do not understand why, nevertheless, we have lost so many of our people in the battles of the Second World War.
      2. oracul
        oracul 9 May 2021 06: 50
        +5
        The greatness of an empire, a nation is determined not by their detractors, but by the memory of the people, future generations. The Internet, with all its possibilities, is not a memory of the people, but an opportunity to express a personal opinion, unfortunately, including by subhumans who live only thanks to the heroic deed of the people. But they cannot understand this.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 9 May 2021 08: 04
          -5
          About "adequate" losses and how we treated the fallen soldiers, can be well told by members of the search teams and "black diggers" ... "" Comparable, "" adequate "losses ... well, well .. Now that's enough published "real" memoirs of those who fought on different sides of the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, it is well described who, how and what fought. I recently read "Blood-red snow of the eastern front. Notes of a German machine gunner "- so, just went nuts ... Read it - informatively.
          1. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 9 May 2021 08: 22
            +8
            Quote: Snail N9
            Blood red snow on the eastern front. Notes of a German machine gunner "- so, just went nuts ... Read it - informatively.

            Well, they, such supermen, lost the war? I read both tankers and pilots. Memories of Hartman and Rudel. If we add up the number of victories of the German aces, there were already 3 times less aircraft in the Red Army. Throughout the war ... And the tankers! Why did the Russian tanks mow in vain, mowed-mowed ... Again, it turned out a bit too much ... And the result is known ... And you read, read ... There is only truth, in the memoirs of the losers. wassat
            1. nnm
              nnm 9 May 2021 09: 32
              +14
              Yeah, colleague. When I read Rudel I was directly surprised - how he alone did not defeat us. Probably only amputation prevented. But then I had not yet read Otto Kariuss - that's who almost drove his tanks into Moscow alone.
              Of all the German memoirs, only one author (in my opinion, Guy Sawyer) had a completely different "truth." I remembered his lines about how on 22.6.41 they captured our machine-gun point with a platoon, at which our soldiers, even without legs, fired back. And then, on the morning of the 22nd, their old sergeant-major told them - "that's it, we have already lost this war" and was mocked by the young ...
          2. nnm
            nnm 9 May 2021 09: 24
            +12
            Colleague, that's why memoirs are not considered historical documents.
            It's like with that Finnish sniper who reported on his "exploits", stating such a number that three times exceeded all the losses of our units in this area, it's like Vitman talking about how he knocked out KV-2, which in general the site was not. And if you read Rudel, then decide that he alone almost defeated us.
            Colleague, yes, 41-42 years old were insanely heavy in terms of losses. But the Germans then had their 44-45s.
            And the figures derived by the Krivosheev commission were eventually recognized in historiography as the most objective, no matter how hard they tried to refute them.
            Yes, there were errors with the return from hospitals, etc., but all this has been clarified.
            And about the honesty of German memoirs .... tell me, at least in some of them have you read stories about how their author killed children, raped, burned civilians? Not? That is why memoirs are not considered historical documents.
          3. Aleksey Kuznetsov
            Aleksey Kuznetsov 3 September 2021 04: 57
            0
            I recently read "Blood-red snow of the eastern front. Notes of a German machine gunner" - so, just went nuts ...

            Of course, it’s no wonder to go nuts from that cranberry and wampukka crap that these surviving “ubermenschs” are pouring on the heads of gullible readers like you. laughing And it seems that it was not in vain that you wrote "" real "memoirs", on a subconscious level you still understand that nothing real has ever spent the night there. lol
      3. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 9 May 2021 07: 56
        +4
        And where does "Khrushchev's falsification" have to do with it? Under Brezhnev, the numbers of losses were called no less, if not large.
      4. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 9 May 2021 13: 03
        +7
        Quote: Finches
        Falsification of losses in the Second World War, which began with Khrushchev,

        I cannot answer the question - why did not and do not believe in these inflated figures of losses. Maybe because, looking at my father, uncle, father-in-law, I was sure that they took an adequate price from the enemy for their losses. Despite the fact that it is very important, they did not finish off the wounded opponents, they did not kill the prisoners. They took tribute from the enemy in an honest open battle. And they brought us VICTORY!
        Eternal memory and glory to them!
        And no weather will darken this day.
        HAPPY to everyone!
    3. seti
      seti 9 May 2021 09: 05
      +6

      You can't look without tears.
      1. depressant
        depressant 9 May 2021 12: 24
        +2
        Yes ... And after all, I saw many of these frames more than once or twice, but today for some reason it is especially painful to watch these chronicles. Probably because it is cloudy, and as if the clouds hanging over the Moscow region are an image of the danger imperceptibly hanging over my Motherland, over each of us. Overcome! To overcome everything! Let's be together, dear colleagues! We shall be together.
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 10 May 2021 23: 24
      0
      Quote: SERGE ant
      Eternal memory and eternal glory. No one is forgotten, nothing is forgotten.

      Eternal speak! I have just returned from the Pskov region. The remains of 98 soldiers were buried in Staritsa - the overwhelming majority of the nameless. We got into a conversation with a local resident, an old-timer: in 44, during the burial, she collected 2 buckets of medallions, copied all the addresses into a notebook. And after 45, she went to the military registration and enlistment office, so she was promised camps for her work. This is how some more missing persons appeared. And over the past 10 years, about 500 remains were buried, which simply lay in the forest, swamp. So much for "eternal memory" and "no one is forgotten"!
  2. paco.soto
    paco.soto 9 May 2021 06: 10
    +2
    what to call such a nation? Not to mention the fact that the Martians weren't driving?
    I read it before. My neutral opinion: just remember!
  3. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 9 May 2021 06: 20
    +5
    A number of falsifiers carry out a political order to distort history.
    It is surprising that the more absurd the fabrications, the faster they find their niche in the public consciousness.
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has repeatedly harshly suppressed such fabrications. He urged not to leave unanswered the open promotion of misanthropic ideas of racism and anti-Semitism, as well as attempts to distort the truth about the Second World War. Putin said this in Jerusalem at the opening of the "Candle of Memory" - a monument to the heroes of the blockade of Leningrad and at the Holocaust memorial forum at the Yad Vashem memorial complex, stressing that Russia is systematically and consistently working in this area.
    At the same time, the main position in the fight against false fabrications is based on his thesis that
    "... attempts to rewrite and falsify history can only be resisted with well-reasoned truth."


    Happy Victory Day, people of the same land!
    God bless you!
    1. Professor
      Professor 9 May 2021 07: 11
      +3
      Quote: A. Privalov
      "... attempts to rewrite and falsify history can only be resisted with well-reasoned truth."

      To do this, at least it is necessary to declassify the archives of the Second World War. Lack of access to documents gives rise to myths from two sides. One of these was voiced by the author himself in this article.

      Happy Victory Day. soldier
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 9 May 2021 08: 07
        +6
        Quote: Professor
        To do this, at least it is necessary to declassify the archives of the Second World War.

        Exactly. There, they keep secret and hide those undeniable arguments from someone. hi
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 9 May 2021 11: 54
          0
          Quote: A. Privalov
          Quote: Professor
          To do this, at least it is necessary to declassify the archives of the Second World War.

          Exactly. There, they secret and hide from someone the very undeniable arguments

          Nobody kept secret it in a new way. They simply restricted access to "everyone". The system is approximately the same as in Germany - you write a request for access to documents on a topic of interest. And you are waiting for an answer.
          The MO knows by name all historians and researchers of the events of both World War II and the Great Patriotic War. None of them complained about the lack of access to the archives. As always, "liberda" groans, like "sent Cossacks from Memorial" who are scouring the archives in search of evidence of "Stalin's crimes."
          We are making "patriotic films" about the Great Patriotic War without any secrecy. That "Rzhev", then "Devyatayev". As you look, you wonder how we won ...
          We are the entire Soviet people, and those who consider themselves their heirs.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 9 May 2021 12: 13
            +6
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Nobody kept secret it in a new way. They simply restricted access to "everyone". The system is approximately the same as in Germany - you write a request for access to documents on a topic of interest. And you are waiting for an answer.

            I have to argue with you. I have some experience of working with the archive of the Ministry of Defense located in Podolsk near Moscow, although the Ministry of Defense does not know me by name.

            Serdyukov's order opened up the opportunity for researchers to work in military archives with documents, including those related to the losses of the Red Army and Navy in 1941-1945. All researchers were already waiting for the inclusion of those related to military tribunals and courts in the list of declassified cases, but ...

            Back in 2011, Rosarkhiv announced its intention to create a specialized archive from declassified documents from the Great Patriotic War, since the period of departmental storage of such files, designated for the Ministry of Defense at 75 years, was close to expiration. Now it is covered. crying
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 9 May 2021 12: 31
              +1
              Quote: A. Privalov
              Back in 2011, Rosarkhiv announced its intention to create a specialized archive from declassified documents from the Great Patriotic War, since the period of departmental storage of such files, designated for the Ministry of Defense at 75 years, was close to expiration. Now it's covered up too

              I will not dispute ...
              Perhaps .. Perhaps in the light of the next confrontation between the "civilized West" and Russia, the Defense Ministry leadership is guided by the Hess case, and others like them?
              Quote: A. Privalov
              Serdyukov's order opened up the opportunity for researchers to work in military archives with documents, including those related to the losses of the Red Army and Navy in 1941-1945. All researchers were already waiting for the inclusion of those related to military tribunals and courts in the list of declassified cases, but

              And this is the most speculative topic today ...
              It is, of course, difficult to refer to the precedent of the "Nobel laureate" who "gave the world" the wonderful world of the GULAG, announcing "two hundred millions" of citizens who perished in camps, prisons and transfers. But anyway...
              Madame Aleksievich is also inclined to multiply the losses of the Soviet people both during the Great Patriotic War and in other "Stalinist" (and not only) times.
              And if you listen to Allochka Gerber, or other interested parties from Rain or Echo, then the doors to the archives will never open, since such people go to the archives for their "truth", but not the truth ...
              About the expired orders of the Serdyukov period.
              If one order is considered invalid, it means that another order comes into force, this is a regulatory issue.
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 9 May 2021 12: 57
                +3
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                And this is the most speculative topic today ...

                I do not delve into internal showdowns, I do not listen to "interested parties", I do not bother with "truth" and "truth", because:
                Truth is knowledge of a specific, factual episode of reality. ...
                True subjectiveand the truth objective.
                Truth is one, and truth is only the point of view of a particular person on any event or fact.
                You can try to dispute any truth, but the truth does not lend itself to doubt, since it is absolute.

                And by this, I am not interested in people who go somewhere or do not go.

                I work with historical materials reflected in monographs of the corresponding direction of specialists and available copies of archival documents. Point. hi
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 9 May 2021 13: 16
                  +3
                  Quote: A. Privalov

                  I work with historical materials reflected in monographs of the corresponding direction of specialists and available copies of archival documents. Point.

                  Give references to your monographs. It is extremely interesting to get acquainted ...
                  You can in a personal ...
                  hi
                  1. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 9 May 2021 13: 46
                    +1
                    Quote: stalkerwalker
                    Give references to your monographs. It is extremely interesting to get acquainted ...

                    Please reread the phrase from my comment carefully:
                    "I work with historical materials that are reflected in monographs of the corresponding direction of specialists". There is no speech here. about my monographs.
                    Yes, you do not need them, especially since they are highly specialized and are not in the public domain - your compatriots for more than 30 (thirty!) Years have not wanted to remove the stamp “For official use” from them and do not allow their free publication. I think it's more out of the habit of secreting everything, creating jobs for retired military personnel. I am not in the claim. hi
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 9 May 2021 12: 37
            +4
            "the entire Soviet people, and those who consider themselves their heirs" for these words.
            I consider it nonsense when the manifestation of anti-Sovietism is compared with Russophobia.
            The fascists called it all Soviet people: "russish"
          3. Professor
            Professor 9 May 2021 13: 47
            -1
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Nobody kept secret it in a new way.

            1. Access to archives was previously restricted.
            2. Now they are even more classified.
            3. What are they hiding?
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 9 May 2021 16: 15
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              What is hidden

              The question is not for me ...
              One can only guess.
              Although the question can be rephrased "From whom they hide?"
      2. vlad.baryatinsky
        vlad.baryatinsky 9 May 2021 12: 59
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        To do this, at least it is necessary to declassify the archives of the Second World War.

        Will not open.
        The authorities believe it is premature to know the TRUTH!
        Quote: Professor
        Lack of access to documents gives rise to myths from two sides. One of these was voiced by the author himself in this article.

        Relevant, based on the realities of the present time.
        With a great VICTORY!
      3. Black lotos
        Black lotos 9 May 2021 16: 09
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        To do this, at least it is necessary to declassify the archives of the Second World War. Lack of access to documents gives rise to myths from two sides

        need to be declassified with full access and preservation of documents. For there is a practice of not saving archives with the signature removed.
      4. alstr
        alstr 10 May 2021 13: 10
        0
        Unfortunately, after the war, there was no strength to collect all the fallen and transfer them to common graves. More precisely, there was an order, but there was a problem with the implementation. Moreover, in the 60s, an order was given to destroy the primary documents and leave only documents after reburials. As a result, one person could be listed as buried in three different places, and in fact remain where he was originally buried.
        This also creates a lot of loss confusion.
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 9 May 2021 07: 43
      +2
      Privalov, I will slightly correct you: Lord, save us all
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 9 May 2021 07: 58
        +1
        Quote: Astra wild2
        slightly correct

        Please explain. hi
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 9 May 2021 12: 17
          +2
          It's simple: you wish peace and good to us, and I wish the same to you.
          I do not divide people by ethnicity. For me, after nationality: Jew or Ukrainian there is no sign = Byaka
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 9 May 2021 13: 07
            0
            Quote: Astra wild2
            You wish peace and good to us, and I wish the same to you.

            Are you confusing anything?
            I called on the Almighty to take care of mine single-earthlings, that is, all those who live today on the same planet with me - the Earth. Not Martians and not clever mold from Alpha Centauri.
            As for the byak on a national basis, then "We swam, we know." (C) hi
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 9 May 2021 16: 31
              +2
              If you look at my comments, I NEVER claimed that Ukrainians or you are byaks
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 9 May 2021 16: 52
                0
                Quote: Astra wild2
                I have NEVER stated that Ukrainians or you are byaki

                And thanks for that. hi
      2. Snail N9
        Snail N9 9 May 2021 08: 11
        +4
        For reference, just for reference:
        [Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu canceled the order of his predecessor Anatoly Serdyukov to declassify military archives during the Great Patriotic War and ordered them to be classified again. The corresponding document has been published on the Internet portal of legal information.]
        yes
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
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          2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Khibiny Plastun
      Khibiny Plastun 9 May 2021 08: 02
      0
      The state is a body, and an abscess of a leberd, like a boil with iron, must be removed, and not stated a fact, they are working for a western owner, spitting on the graves of our grandfathers, and we wipe ourselves off, then we will come after the ukrami. If-from-Urengoy will climb like toadstools. Just what am I talking about, the main leberoid sits and lives in the Kremlin. At this rate, Victory Day will be celebrated in the Yeltsin Center. And films about the war for the state account are filmed one-to-one, a vile vulgarization of the feat of the Red Army. So that for the liberoid evil spirits or lead, or airing in the area of ​​the southern coast of the Arctic.
  4. Uran53
    Uran53 9 May 2021 06: 36
    +1
    At the initial stage of the war, the cadre army was destroyed not only by the Germans, but also by the betrayal of some "Soviet" generals who surrendered entire armies to the Germans. Which is hardly a German military genius. From there, losses in the Red Army in defense were greater than those of the attackers. But we survived! And we won! All with the holiday of the Great Victory!
    1. Aleksey Kuznetsov
      Aleksey Kuznetsov 3 September 2021 05: 08
      0
      The fact is that the cadre army was NOT destroyed, and the author of the article, saying this, is making a serious mistake. belay She suffered serious losses, yes, but by no means was she destroyed.
  5. Ian_Kummer
    Ian_Kummer 9 May 2021 07: 11
    +7
    Heroes are never forgotten.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 9 May 2021 11: 54
      +2
      Yes Yes. Now I see that a new "justifying" trend has begun to gain fashion: to blame some "betrayal" of "individuals" for the defeats of 1941-1942, and not a general hatred, incompetence, inability and unprofessionalism.
      1. Ian_Kummer
        Ian_Kummer 9 May 2021 13: 26
        +2
        Not at all! Compare this to the American and British defeats in 1944, such as Operation Market Garden. Celebrate then the bravery of the soldiers, not the incompetence of the commanders.
      2. Aleksey Kuznetsov
        Aleksey Kuznetsov 3 September 2021 05: 04
        0
        Yes Yes. Now I see that a new "justifying" trend has begun to gain fashion: to blame some "betrayal" of "individuals" for the defeats of 1941-1942, and not a general hatred, incompetence, inability and unprofessionalism.

        Yes, yes, for a long time, I see, there is a different trend in fashion: to forget - or it is convenient to pretend that you are forgetting - that you fought not with boys from grammar schools, but with a ready for war, experienced and trained enemy. Why, with this approach, it is convenient to write off the defeats of 1941-1942 only on
        general hatred, incompetence, inability and unprofessionalism
        , who came to kill Soviet people "kulturtragers" seem to have nothing to do with it, huh? No.
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 May 2021 07: 16
    +9
    All, all with the biggest holiday
    of all the existing ones - with VICTORY DAY!

    As for the level of losses, let everyone take a lookabout your family-How much left and how many returned, it is known for sure .. Such ordinary families are the vast majority. In a small village, this is also clearly visible, by the number of names on the monument.

    Today we go to the Immortal Regiment-with portraits of our grandfathers-Glory to all the participants of the Great Patriotic War-winners!
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 9 May 2021 08: 18
      +8
      My family is probably not quite ordinary. During the war, both grandfathers were drafted (more precisely, one of them served on the battleship Parizhskaya Kommuna (Sevastopol) from 1936 to 1946), brothers of grandfathers, several other relatives. All survived, all have awards. Sailor, tanker , infantrymen, a signalman. His paternal grandfather, a tankman, was wounded. He had problems with his hand all his life. But after the war he worked on a tractor, was a foreman in the MTS. One of the maternal grandfather's brothers, a signalman, took part in the war with Japan. Another brother of my grandfather, shortly before the war, received a short term for leaving his village to study at the FZO school without permission, missed his native place, but went to the front as a volunteer, fought, was awarded. The aforementioned husband of my grandmother's sister, an infantryman, was captured, was in a concentration camp, returned, was not subjected to any reprisals. then among the second cousins ​​and fourth cousins ​​were the victims. I do not know for sure.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 9 May 2021 08: 59
        +7
        Quote: Sergej1972
        All survived, they all have awards.



        Thank God!

        My grandfather (he was wounded and shell-shocked, died early), both brothers died, an aunt died from a bomb in the blockade, another aunt, an anti-aircraft gunner survived there. Another grandfather is disabled Finnish.

        In the village of my mother (Smolensk region), of the many men who had left, fellow villagers returned alone without an arm.
  7. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 May 2021 07: 39
    +7
    Colleagues, everyone with the Great Victory Day!
    The victory came at a high price, and therefore it is especially dear
  8. Khibiny Plastun
    Khibiny Plastun 9 May 2021 07: 49
    +5
    Happy Victory Day! Bow to the veterans of the front and rear, who worked two shifts at the machine and in the field. Each in his place, by work or with a bayonet, brought Victory closer.
  9. north 2
    north 2 9 May 2021 08: 05
    +4
    Saying the well-known phrase "Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten", it is always worth adding three more words "No one is forgiven". That Bandera or his forest brother had "forgotten nothing" before, they don't give a damn about it, they again become fascists in the system and drag their young successors into this system. But the words "No one is forgiven", would oblige again and again and again to punish those who, it turns out, were not helped by the post-war Stalinist camps to punish the accomplices of fascism. And so on until they either die or re-educate their fascist heads in Babi Yar, in the IX Fort, in Khatyn and in thousands of places of their crimes in Russia.
    I mean that the victims of the soldiers and commanders of the Red Army in battle are one thing. But the victims during the war of civilian unarmed people on their own land at the hands of their own armed executioners, this is completely different. It's not enough not to forget about this. Here it is obliged not to forgive!
    In one row, like today's followers of those fascist executioners, there are those who distort the History of Russia, the USSR, the history of the Second World War. These are those, from those warmed by the Khrushchev slush to the current mouthpieces of Echo of Moscow, Dozhd, Meduza and RTVi, who invented lies about the barrage detachments, who slander the Red Army about the mass rapes in Prussia and Berlin, to whom Kosmodemyanskaya propaganda is generally a fiction to whom to distort the statistics by the loss of the Red Army is to eat well, because they are well paid for by the heirs of those whom the Red Army did not finish off near Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk and in Berlin.
    Everyone, Happy May 9th. Happy Victory Day of the Soviet People in the Great Patriotic War!
  10. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 9 May 2021 08: 14
    +11
    "They are connected with the notorious plan" Ost ". We did not exterminate the Germans, so they have total losses and less. They also waged a war with the aim of destroying the Soviet people."
    --------------
    It is very timely for the 76th anniversary of the Victory of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War ... Today
    Nice post! Facebook twice blocked the account of VGTRK journalist Andrei Medvedev for his post on speaking in the Bundestag. The text is excellent and in a very good way Russian, so it deserves to be read.

    “If I had to speak in the Bundestag as a boy, Kolya, I probably said these words:
    - Dear deputies. Today I saw a miracle. And this miracle is called Germany. I went to you and looked at the beautiful streets of Berlin, at people, at wonderful monuments of architecture, and now I stand here and look at you. And I understand that all this is a miracle. That you were all born into the world and live in Germany. Why do I think so? Because, given what your soldiers did here, in the occupied territories, the Red Army fighters had every moral right to destroy the entire German people.

    Leaving a burnt field in place of Germany, ruins, and only paragraphs of textbooks would remind us that there was once such a country. You probably do not remember all the details of the occupation, but this is not necessary. I just remind you of what the soldiers of the Wehrmacht and the SS did with Soviet children. They were shot. Often in front of parents. Or vice versa, at first they shot at dad with mom, and then at the children.

    Your soldiers raped the children. Children were burned alive. Sent to concentration camps. Where they took blood to make serum for your soldiers. Children were starved. Your shepherds ate the children to death. Children were used as targets. Children were brutally tortured just for fun.

    Or here are two examples for you. Wehrmacht officer prevented the baby from sleeping, he took his leg and broke his head on the corner of the stove. Your pilots at the Lychkovo station bombed a train on which they tried to take the children to the rear, and then your aces chased the frightened kids, shooting them in a bare field. Two thousand children were killed.

    Only for what you did with the children, I repeat, the Red Army could completely destroy Germany with its inhabitants. She had full moral right. But didn’t.
    Do I regret it? Of course not. I admire the steel will of my ancestors, who found some incredible strength in themselves, so as not to become the same cattle as the soldiers of the Wehrmacht.

    On the buckles of German soldiers it was written "God is with us." But they were the offspring of hell and brought hell to our land. The soldiers of the Red Army were Komsomol and Communists, but the Soviet people turned out to be much more Christians than the inhabitants of enlightened religious Europe. And they did not take revenge. They could understand that hell cannot be defeated by hell.
    You should not apologize to us, because personally you are not to blame for anything. You cannot be responsible for your grandfathers and great-grandfathers. And then, only the Lord forgives. But I will tell you honestly - for me the Germans are forever a stranger, an alien people. This is not because you are personally bad. This in me screams the pain of children burnt by the Wehrmacht. And you have to accept that at least my generation - for whom the memory of the war is the rewards of his grandfather, his scars, his front-line friends - will perceive you like that.

    What will happen next, I do not know. Perhaps after us come mankurts who forget everything. And we have done a lot for this, we have done a lot of things for ourselves, but I hope that not everything is lost for Russia.

    Of course we need to cooperate. Russian and Germans. We need to solve problems together. Fight ISIS and build gas pipelines. But you have to accept one fact: we will never repent for our Great this war. And even more so for the Victory. And even more so in front of you. In any case, I repeat, my generation. Because then we saved not only ourselves. We have saved you from ourselves. And I don’t even know which is more important. ”
    --------

    Happy Great Victory Day !!!
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 9 May 2021 10: 40
      +1
      Quote: Tank jacket
      Happy Great Victory Day !!!

      An excellent post was posted! Sent to friends.
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 9 May 2021 11: 48
        0
        Happy Victory, Mountain Shooter! hi Friends are our associates.
      2. depressant
        depressant 9 May 2021 11: 48
        +4
        Not that word!
        So the journalist Medvedev ... it really needs to be sent out. Because nothing stronger has happened to be read or heard. Thank you!
        Happy Victory Day, dear colleagues Tank jacket and Mountain shooter! love love love
        Let's wish each other that this does not happen again.
        1. Tank jacket
          Tank jacket 10 May 2021 08: 43
          +1
          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I also congratulate you on Victory Day! love Yesterday I worked, I didn't have time ...
          1. depressant
            depressant 10 May 2021 09: 09
            +2
            Thank you very much, dear colleague! love )))
            Yes, we still have the pillars that unite the overwhelming majority of us.
    2. nikon7717
      nikon7717 10 May 2021 01: 06
      +1
      Great text. The author would make it into a separate article on the site. In the meantime, add a link to the original
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 10 May 2021 06: 47
        +1
        https://ria.ru/20171124/1509481182.html
        ---------
        https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=162294271182776&id=100022066126311
  11. Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 9 May 2021 08: 19
    +1
    Happy Holidays everyone! Let us remember the feat of our grandfathers!
    1. depressant
      depressant 9 May 2021 11: 54
      +4
      And Happy Victory Day to you, dear colleague! love
      I watched the Parade, and somehow it became easier on my soul. There was a young, beautiful and strong Russia. We must value each other. Appreciate everyone, no matter who they are. We need to be together. The only way.
  12. Poetry
    Poetry 9 May 2021 08: 21
    +3
    Those who returned, they returned with Victory.
    And what is the cost of all this? Tell us about that.
    How much vitality was then given.?
    How many of ours did that heavy fire mow?

    This War then returned home a few,
    She took the healthy, returned the legless, legless.
    But even like this, the relatives were so glad.
    War! .. From the first to the last day.

    We will carry on further, your Battle Banners!
    We will always remember you all by name.
    Over and over again, we will cry for you.
    Just to let you know. That no one is forgotten! ..

    The white light did not yet know such a war,
    Drops of red blood spilled in the river.
    The smoke from these conflagrations hid the sky behind it,
    But it is you! They were chosen by Destiny.

    You did not fall then, carrying this heavy cross.
    Did you know. It was impossible to lose this War.
    Yes, it's very scary. Wars have a harsh law.
    Too much, if not all, was at stake.

    Those who survived then returned home.
    Families waited for their heroes, every one of them.
    There were also bitter tears. Mothers, children and wives ...
    Those ... Who remained on the field to lie smitten.

    They stayed there. Those who fell under the flurry.
    Those who were killed on the spot in a dagger attack! ..
    They remained with brothers in mass graves ...
    Thank you, our relatives. For those nights and days.

    No erasers will erase this in any way.
    We remember your courage, your hard work ...
    What a heavy bitter share you got,
    To the people of the Country, which never surrendered! ..

    This pain about the War lives in my heart.
    I do not know. Where does all this in me come from? ..
    They tear their souls into small pieces.
    As if I was killed in mortal combat ...

    S.N.Smirnov-Vyatsky. 2017 Nov.
    1. depressant
      depressant 9 May 2021 12: 02
      +5
      Thank you too, dear colleague!
      Thank you for bringing this poignant poem. It was like that today, I burst into tears, typing congratulations in the News, it was already crumpled. The Victory was won many decades ago, but I remember it as if it were a personal memory.
      Happy Holidays! love
      1. Poetry
        Poetry 9 May 2021 13: 21
        +2
        Thank you for your kind words. I wrote this 3 years ago, when I returned from the Victory Parade, impressed. One for all...
        1. depressant
          depressant 9 May 2021 13: 51
          +3
          Dear Poet, I have long noticed your short humorous comments in poetic form, noted your wit. And now - this is a magnificent poem. But in the future I would like to call you by name and patronymic. I am Lyudmila Yakovlevna, and you? ...)))
          1. Poetry
            Poetry 9 May 2021 14: 52
            +3
            Sergey Nikolaevich Smirnov. Vyatsky because there is another poet in my city, Sergei Smirnov. Sincerely.
            1. depressant
              depressant 9 May 2021 15: 02
              +2
              It was nice to meet you! Once again, happy holidays! hi )))
  13. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 9 May 2021 08: 49
    +4

    -------
    Only Red Flag !!!
  14. Compasure
    Compasure 9 May 2021 10: 22
    +3
    Happy Holidays! Happy Great Victory! Eternal memory to the heroes!
  15. Niko
    Niko 9 May 2021 11: 42
    +3
    When will these writers stop annoying with their fabrications? The feat of the people is not in the ability to fight and not in the fact that everything was no worse than that of the Germans. SACRIFICE distinguishes the USSR from all the winners of that war. Thanks to everyone who left and did not return, and to everyone who was ready not to return when leaving, but survived.
  16. BAI
    BAI 9 May 2021 15: 40
    +3
    There is controversy about the missing.

    There is nothing to argue about here. Missing person = deceased. The remains of the soldiers are still found in huge quantities. Even in the suburbs.
  17. Black lotos
    Black lotos 9 May 2021 16: 18
    +3
    The price of Victory is very high. Tens of millions to lose to the then young state (which recently recovered from other, no less bloody wars) is a very difficult test.
    And only the Iron generation of those Soviet people withstood all the tests, paid this exorbitant price with their destinies and lives and won. They are truly iron people.
    I congratulate them, victorious and living, victorious and resting in peace, we mourn for all those who died in this bloody and cruel war.
    Happy Victory Day to all!
  18. Charlie
    Charlie 9 May 2021 19: 21
    -8
    Quote: nnm
    Yeah, colleague. When I read Rudel I was directly surprised - how he alone did not defeat us. Probably only amputation prevented. But then I had not yet read Otto Kariuss - that's who almost drove his tanks into Moscow alone.
    Of all the German memoirs, only one author (in my opinion, Guy Sawyer) had a completely different "truth." I remembered his lines about how on 22.6.41 they captured our machine-gun point with a platoon, at which our soldiers, even without legs, fired back. And then, on the morning of the 22nd, their old sergeant-major told them - "that's it, we have already lost this war" and was mocked by the young ...

    Have you shot back without legs? Believe it yourself? Did this author write in Soviet times? And he did not live for an hour in eastern Germany to write under the dictation of communist propagandists? There, from a painful shock, a person will no longer have time for shooting. In addition, from loss of blood, he will lose consciousness in ten minutes, and then life itself
    1. Sergio66
      Sergio66 10 May 2021 00: 20
      0
      Well, your Rudel flew like that, with a torn off leg ...
  19. Andrey1966
    Andrey1966 10 May 2021 07: 52
    +1
    About losses. I am quoting a post from one of the forums. The author is a military man (retired). A knowledgeable person, covered in gold (well, you get the idea).
    "The losses of the USSR during the Great Patriotic War - about 27 million people. The official latest version - 26.6 million.
    But the structure of human losses is monstrous! And for some reason little is said about her.
    But about the same number of Soviet servicemen died as the Nazis, if you count not only the Germans, but the entire fascist bloc.
    Let's take data from the Internet as the most accessible.

    We have killed about 8.6 million servicemen and they have 8.6 million servicemen.
    Sometimes Germany is singled out, in comparison with her our losses are higher, about 1.3 versus 1.0.
    At the same time, the captured Soviet servicemen were killed by the Nazis or ours died there, almost 60%, and the Nazis died in our captivity, about 14%.

    The rest of the military losses of the USSR are civilians.
    In the zone of occupation, the Nazis killed, often brutally, 13 684 700 people! Just think about it - 13.6 million old people, women, children, babies and the men who remained there were tortured and killed!
    Of these, about 7.42 million people were deliberately killed on the territory of the USSR!
    Killed in Germany in forced labor - about 2.2 million people!
    Perished from hunger and disease, including your brother - about 4.1 million people!

    We must constantly talk about this, we must trumpet about it at every step.
    And that is why Victory Day must be celebrated and the parade must be held.
    And at the parade to voice these figures every year and poke, poke their noses at them who have forgotten what they have done. "©
    1. Charlie
      Charlie 10 May 2021 07: 58
      -4
      Why isn't the victory over Napoleon celebrated? Or victory in the Northern War. It lasted for 20 years and the victory there was very impressive. They do not remember and are no longer proud
      1. Andrey1966
        Andrey1966 10 May 2021 08: 26
        +1
        We must celebrate.
  20. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 May 2021 09: 06
    +1
    For understanding. The rifle division of the Red Army in 1941 is 14500 people in the state. And only our losses on the battlefield - more than 400 rifle divisions in four years.

    Still not to forget that even the divisions of the border districts were not staffed in such a state, and even those who fought to the east ... Often the division numbered no more than 5-6 thousand people
    1. Walking
      Walking 10 May 2021 12: 31
      +1
      Andrey, you are completely right during the war, there were no divisions with staff on the front line. The divisions of the Red Army were inferior in number to the divisions of the Wehrmacht.
  21. Alexander Koshkin
    Alexander Koshkin 18 June 2021 18: 27
    +1
    It is indecent to refer to Krivosheev! Immediately after his research, he went from major general to lieutenant general. The bias in his calculations is obvious. His calculations do not take into account the loss of parts of the militia, partisans, and those mobilized in the liberated territories.
  22. zenion
    zenion 1 July 2021 23: 06
    0
    Could present-day Russia at that time have done the same thing that the USSR did ?!