EDAM: Without F-35 fighters, not received due to the acquisition of the S-400 from Russia, the Turkish Air Force is rapidly becoming obsolete

The forces lobbying for the refusal by Turkey to deploy Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems are increasing their pressure on the Turkish authorities.

The Istanbul Center for Research in Economics and Foreign Policy (abbreviated in Latin - EDAM) issued a report stating that the Turkish Air Force is "rapidly becoming obsolete" without purchasing American fifth-generation fighters. At the same time, it is recalled that Turkey could not receive the contracted F-35s, since Washington imposed anti-Turkish sanctions due to Ankara's acquisition of the S-400 Triumph air defense system from the Russian Federation.

The report of the said center says that in one or two decades, the Turkish Air Force will face serious problems due to the fact that only 3rd and 4th generation fighters will remain in their armament.

From the report:

F-4 and F-16 aircraft will remain in the Turkish Air Force. They were created during the Cold War. Their resource is either already exhausted, or is about to run out. Fighters of this type will have to be written off, since it is infinitely impossible to upgrade them.

Jan Kazapoglu, head of the EDAM military programs department, said that "Turkey missed the opportunity to re-equip with American F-35 fighters, and the likely adversaries in the region - Greece and Israel - are doing it successfully."

Turkey with the acquisition of the S-400 has come to a state of lagging behind the Greek and Israeli air forces

Research Center Management Representative:

The acquisition of the S-400 air defense system from Russia was a mistake for Turkey. The air defense-based doctrine does not meet Turkish national security requirements.

EDAM states that the S-400 "is characterized by a network architecture, and therefore the complexes in Turkey will not be able to operate with maximum efficiency."

Kazapoglu says that in such a situation, the Turkish authorities "need to abandon the S-400 in order to still get the F-35."

Such statements by the leadership of the aforementioned Istanbul Center suggest that the report prepared by EDAM is a manifestation of the American lobby in order to make a new attempt to disrupt military-technical cooperation between Ankara and Moscow.

Comments

[Pavlos Melas]

Turks will buy yurofighters from the Britons, so the butcher's son worries in vain)))

[XXXIII]

Quote: Pavlos Melas

Turks will buy yurofighters from the Britons, so the butcher's son worries in vain)))

Yes, that's right, the market is large, China will also be happy to provide assistance in the Turkish military-industrial complex market. Yes, and Russia is putting up its samples for sale. So the choice is great, just pay.

[lis-ik]

Quote: XXXIII

Quote: Pavlos Melas

Turks will buy yurofighters from the Britons, so the butcher's son worries in vain)))

Yes, that's right, the market is large, China will also be happy to provide assistance in the Turkish military-industrial complex market. Yes, and Russia is putting up its samples for sale. So the choice is great, just pay.

We do not have fifth generation fighters either for sale or for ourselves, but what we have are the same fourth generation fighters.

[Shurik70]

1) Why Turkey F-35?
Such aircraft are needed against opponents with modern effective radars. Who will Turkey fight with? Countries in Africa and some countries in the Middle East. Turkey will not climb either to Israel or Iran, and if there are conflicts with Greece, they will be purely local, such as two Greek boats met with three Turkish frigates and bravely fled, having received a couple of "warning" bullet holes. That is, they do not need the F-35 for the next couple of decades, and then it will become outdated.
2) Turkey has shown a powerful scientific potential in military technology.
They know how to make their own UAVs, and even successfully compete with leading developers. The USA themselves made their F-35 on Turkish components. So they already have some of the F-35 technologies. And they will make their own analogue, purely to show the fact to the Americans. The United States punished itself - lost money, components, quarreled with an ally and convinced him to start competing with the United States

[XXXIII]

Quote: lis-ik

Quote: XXXIII

Quote: Pavlos Melas

Turks will buy yurofighters from the Britons, so the butcher's son worries in vain)))

Yes, that's right, the market is large, China will also be happy to provide assistance in the Turkish military-industrial complex market. Yes, and Russia is putting up its samples for sale. So the choice is great, just pay.

We do not have fifth generation fighters either for sale or for ourselves, but what we have are the same fourth generation fighters.

Let's say not, but there are fighters that are not inferior to the capabilities of fighters of other states. See things right, not magazine covers. Russia builds planes from scratch, and does not buy them under Langlese.

[Revolver]

Quote: XXXIII

China will also be happy to provide assistance in the Turkish military-industrial complex market. And Russia also puts up its samples for sale. So the choice is large, just pay.

This is the only way the Turks can fly out of NATO. Here the Greeks will be delighted, and the Armenians too.

[Pavlos Melas]

This is the only way the Turks can fly out of NATO. Here the Greeks will be delighted, and the Armenians too.

If the Turks fly out of NATO, it will be a plus for us, but for the Armenians, there may not be benefits.

[Revolver]

Quote: Pavlos Melas

This is the only way the Turks can fly out of NATO. Here the Greeks will be delighted, and the Armenians too.

If the Turks fly out of NATO, it will be a plus for us, but for the Armenians, there may not be benefits.

If the Turks, after leaving NATO, have a conflict with the Greeks (and, as a result, with the rest of NATO), and the Greeks do not even have to try very hard to make it appear, the Armenians will not fail to cling to it. How successful is, of course, a question.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Nagan

If the Turks, after leaving NATO, have a conflict with the Greeks

Turkey will leave NATO if this organization ceases to exist. Greece and France can easily leave, they have an independent policy. In principle, both countries have already done this.

[Revolver]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Turkey will leave NATO if this organization ceases to exist.

They themselves are unlikely to come out, but they can very well expose them. The Turks are dissatisfied with the republicans, and shitcrats, and gayropeans. While they are suffering, but patience is not rubber.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Nagan

they can even expose them.

Can not. They are a key member of NATO, along with the United States and Britain, these 3 countries (+ Poland) are NATO, all other passengers.
Britain and Turkey have become very close lately, the Anglo-Saxons have taken full control of the Turkish economy, the Turks are performing tasks for Britain. They are fighting together against France. In fact, France and Greece are their only opponents in Europe.

[Revolver]

The Germans don't seem to like them either. And the Germans in Europe are by no means passengers.

[OgnennyiKotik]

They adore them, but an alliance with France is more valuable. So they rush between 2 chairs. It seems like they are not supplying weapons, but submarines please, and they will not refuse critical technologies. As with Russia, it seems like there are sanctions, but gas is needed.
The Germans are no longer the same. From a military point of view, they are somewhere on the level of Spain. But their economy is advanced.

[Albay]

There was always mutual understanding with the Germans and the Turks. In the world wars they were allies, after the war the Turks were given the opportunity to participate in the reconstruction of Germany. Hundreds of thousands of Turks moved to live in Germany in the 60-80s.

[Albay]

Turkey cannot be fielded. In terms of numbers, it is the second NATO army.

[Albay]

Quite right. In order to return Greece to NATO at that time, the United States had to persuade Turkey for a long time so that Turkey would agree and only after a military coup could they reach an agreement.

[paul3390]

Interesting - do the Turks really believe that they can use penguins without the permission of the owners? For some reason, I doubt that the Ottoman F-35 will be able to work at all in, say, Israeli ..

[Alex777]

IMHO, the Turks are well aware of this.
KF-X will be bought from Koreans and will settle down.
The tank has already been taken, and now the fighter.
With an aircraft carrier, yes - a complete bummer.
But no one, except the Turks, will be saddened.

[XXXIII]

Quote: Nagan

Quote: XXXIII

China will also be happy to provide assistance in the Turkish military-industrial complex market. And Russia also puts up its samples for sale. So the choice is large, just pay.

This is the only way the Turks can fly out of NATO. Here the Greeks will be delighted, and the Armenians too.

Not unlikely, a second army in NATO, and an active army, not a staff one. The industrial complex is actively developing, although it is borrowed, but it also develops its own. These small countries, obviously, will not go to Turkey than they ended the recent conflict with nothing. NATO will not wage an open war against Turkey under the current conditions. Here is to undermine politically or financially to squeeze, yes, this is their favorite weapon.

[Liam]

Quote: XXXIII

second army in nato

Is that in terms of numbers. In terms of technical equipment and training, not even in the top ten. The level of Egypt plus or minus. 80% of the strength of the Turks is integration into the systems and structures of NATO.

Quote: XXXIII

The industrial complex is actively developing, although it is borrowed, but it also develops its own.

Economically and in terms of scientific and technological development, beyond the twenty. Turkey is a developing country.

[Albay]

The financial pressure did not work. The alliance with Qatar neutralized the possibility of financial losses. Qatar has made and is making billions of dollars in investments in the Turkish economy.

[IL-18]

Quote: Nagan

Armenians too.

If they themselves join NATO. If Turkey leaves NATO, the latter will be at least one less lever of pressure. Do the Armenians need it?

[Kaman]

As an Israeli, I hope to continue with Turkey's purchases of Russian aircraft and air defense systems.

[IL-18]

Quote: Kaman

As an Israeli, I hope to continue with Turkey's purchases of Russian aircraft and air defense systems.

MiG-21, 23 and Su-22 with S-200? Even with the mutual desire of Russia and Turkey, it will not work. And with the rest of the domes, etc. may just be useless

[Maz]

Quote: Kaman

As an Israeli, I hope to continue with Turkey's purchases of Russian aircraft and air defense systems.

As an Israeli, you should hope that the Sultan will not turn on the nuclear weapons program.

[Vlad Pervovich]

+1 or something from the Chinese

[Maz]

There will be a movie if the Turks order Sushki or Su-57 from us ... and cheaper and quality. And America has a lump in the throat

[Revolver]

Quote: Maz

There will be a movie if the Turks order we Drying or Su-5

writes Maz while on permanent residence in Israel

[Maz]

Turks need a universal project - a railway road from China and India to Europe, for example.

[marchcat]

The report of the said center says that in one or two decades, the Turkish Air Force will face serious problems.

Well, as they say, either a donkey or a padishah. In two decades, it is not clear what may happen to Turkey in general.

[OgnennyiKotik]

There, the main irritant is Egypt, with the purchase of Rafals and FREMM parity with the Turkish Armed Forces disappears. The Egyptian Army and Navy is technically beginning to outnumber the Turkish.
They will agree on the F-35, but the delivery is 25-28 years minimum; at the beginning of the 30s TF-X will go into series, at the end of this decade the parity will return, in the middle there will be a drawdown.

[Revolver]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

in the early 30s TF-X will go into production

So far, it exists in plywood layout and computer graphics. There are two big differences between this and the flying model, and even more so the serial one.
And the real experience of the Turks in the development of combat aircraft is, of course, more than zero, but less than one. "Bayraktar" is certainly good in its class, but even half of the fourth, let alone fifth generation fighter will not pull. And where will they get the motors? For "Bayraktar" they tried to make their own, but in the end they put on a Canadian one.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Nagan

certainly greater than zero, but less than one.

This is what TAI does with BAE and RR. they supply half of the components for the F-35 for three.

Quote: Nagan

And where will they get the motors?

Engines specifically for this project are (re) designed by the RR. I think the descendant of EJ200 will be.

Quote: Nagan

For "Bayraktar" they tried to make their own, but in the end they put on a Canadian one.

On the contrary. First, they installed the Austrian Rotax 912 (you can buy it at any store where they sell ATVs, snowmobiles), then they installed your RD-170

[spirit]

The Turks will not last long! With such an approach as Erdogan's to the economy, which constantly removes the heads of the Central Bank, the lira is flying with acceleration to the bottom, the discontent of both the military and ordinary citizens is growing. I think the Sultan will not be finished off by agents of the State Department, but by his own ignorance and desire to impose his economic strategy in which the Sultan does not particularly understand

[voyaka uh]

Erdogan may simply lose the presidential election due to a slowdown in the pace of development
and public discontent.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Not really clear. All Turks have been banned here, you will not get information from first hand. need to be analyzed more deeply.
On the one hand, a lot of loans were issued, the reserves of the Central Bank are empty, the lira is falling and inflation on the other, PPP GDP is growing, exports are increasing. The ruble and the yuan are depreciating their entire existence, this does not interfere with China.

[voyaka uh]

Everything is relative. In general, Turkey is still on the rise.
But macroeconomics has been disrupted. Currency, inflation (16%)
Although there are many large European countries where the situation is much worse.

[IL-18]

Quote: voyaka uh

Currency, inflation (16%)

There is even significant gains in export gains in terms of expansion. So from the point of view. macroeconomics is not yet a fact that it will get worse.

[Albay]

Turkey recently signed a Free Trade Agreement. After Brexit, this is especially important, since before that, trade relations between Turkey and the World Bank were regulated by a free trade agreement between Turkey and the EU.

The WB is an important partner, this year Turkey's exports to the WB amounted to about 1/10 of its total exports.

Despite the global economic crisis related to Covid-19, exports from Turkey have not declined.
This is facilitated by the rather low exchange rate of the Turkish lira, which fell by almost 40% over the year in relation to the $. Which, on the other hand, is certainly not gut.
True, in recent times, after personnel changes, it has strengthened somewhat and is now holding at the level of 7,5 lira per dollar, but still it is 25% higher than the rate at the beginning of the year, which still benefits exporters, although it accelerates inflation in the country ... Recent increases in the Central Bank's discount rate can bring the rate to 7 lira per $ 1.

[voyaka uh]

"The WB is an important partner, this year Turkey's exports to the WB amounted to about 1/10 of its total exports." ///
---
It is interesting. Maybe Rolls-Royce will supply the engines for the new Turkish fighter?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: voyaka uh

Maybe Rolls-Royce will supply the engines for the new Turkish fighter?

So they do BAE and RR + Leonardo (I might be wrong) make this plane.

From an interview at the end of March:

Director of the defense company TUSAŞ Temel Kotil:

Today, our company is simultaneously developing 3 aircraft projects, 6 helicopters and 2 UAVs. The most important project is the fifth generation fighter TF-X, which has 3.000 of our employees and the same number of employees from other companies with which we cooperate.

TF-X will be equipped with artificial intelligence, which will act as a co-pilot. If the pilot loses consciousness, the aircraft will be able to autonomously return to its base.

As for other companies [British and Italian], with whom we are developing an engine for a 5th generation fighter, our main condition is full rights to the engine. The aircraft must be fully owned by Turkey.

As a result of the implementation of the TF-X project, we will receive not only a fifth generation fighter, but a large number of experienced aircraft designers.

[Albay]

A warrior, I think one cannot discount the multibillion-dollar investments from Qatar in the Turkish economy.
I think these infusions in exchange for a military-political alliance are mutually beneficial. Qatar protected itself from Saudi Arabia and the Arab coalition they created against themselves, and Turkey, thanks to this, easily finances the military projects it needs and can easily send as many letters as the EU wants.

[voyaka uh]

Qatar is not the most pleasant country, of course, but
very, very rich. And with huge investments in England, by the way.
Half of London - new construction - Qatari money.
Qatar has a mutually beneficial symbiosis with Turkey

[Maz]

Quote: voyaka uh

Erdogan may simply lose the presidential election due to a slowdown in the pace of development
and public discontent.

I don’t know I don’t know, but a third of the cars sold in Israel are assembled in Turkey ... draw conclusions,

[Anar]

You are wrong, Turkey for the last 4 years I have been one of the leaders of the country that provides humanitarian assistance to others. In 2019 it was in first place. She gave over 7,5 billion to poor countries. In second place is the United States. A country with economic problems would not do that. Read less envious semi-mystical articles, and instead of that, look at the official data of leading economic publications.
And by the way, she does all this with practically no minerals and buys 95% from outside, while being included, like the world powers, in the G20. So its economy is much better and more comprehensively developed than the economy of most European and even world oil and gas countries.
For this reason, they are afraid to let Turkey into the European Union. They understand that if she is given free rein, it will strangle both by the population and influence and after a while by the economies of countries such as France, Austria and even Germany. Small countries are not against Turkey, and the leaders of Europe, for fear of mixing up the axis, do not want to see Turkey there.

[Pavlos Melas]

You are wrong, Turkey for the last 4 years I have been one of the leaders of the country that provides humanitarian assistance to others. In 2019 it was in first place. She gave over 7,5 billion to poor countries.

Somehow, the USSR also gave a lot of things to someone, but alas, the USSR does not.

So its economy is much better and more comprehensively developed than the economy of most European and even world oil and gas countries.
For this reason, Turkey is afraid to be admitted to the European Union.

Turkey is not allowed into the EU, not because they are afraid, but because there are rules and conditions under which all countries join the EU. Turkey wants to enter on its own terms, no matter how useful it would be to the EU, but Turkey simply physically cannot fulfill the conditions for accession.

[IL-18]

Quote: Pavlos Melas

Somehow, the USSR also gave a lot of things to someone, but alas, the USSR does not.

Quote: Pavlos Melas

weight . Turkey wants to enter on its own terms,

Well, kind of softer ...
Not certainly in that way.

[Thrifty]

The Turks will even buy Chinese or our fighters. The losers will be the Yankees, because in the long term this is the loss of the Turkish arms market, where Turkish companies are actively fighting to make import substitution in Turkish. That is, to make weapons and ammunition as much as possible at home and by ourselves. The Turks have problems in microelectronics, optics, engines for tanks, but with their assertiveness, they will eventually solve these problems, perhaps with the help of "foreign specialists". Although, it will take many years. An economically stronger China is not even able to create a modern competitive aircraft engine on its own, due to the lack of the necessary technologies and knowledge.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Thrifty

The Turks will even buy Chinese or our fighters.

As a last resort, Eurofighters, as well as on the F-35, will agree. Under Erdogan or after him, the second question.

Quote: Thrifty

with the help of "foreign specialists" and these problems. Although, it will take many years.

Well, these years began in the 80s and 90s. Now we see the results, not the beginning. Almost all of their military, political, technical elite have the formation of the United States and Britain, now 2-3 generation has gone.

Baykar Makina is a Turkish aircraft manufacturer founded in 1984 year as an entrepreneur Ozdemir Bayraktar.
In the first years after its foundation, the company was engaged in production of parts for engines, pumps and automobile transmissions.
Since 2000, Baykar Makina began work in the field of aircraft construction, in particular, in the development and production of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). These works were actively attended by sons Ozdemir Bayraktar - Haluk, Selcuk and Akhmet Bayraktary.
The research team of the company consists of 800 people, engineers and technicians.
Selcuk Bayraktar graduated from Istanbul Technical University in 2002. Has a master's degree The University of Pennsylvania and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Doctorate holder Georgia Institute of Technology

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Thrifty

engines for tanks

By the way, a video of the launch of their engine for Altai has just been released.

[Wedmak]

for the S-400 "network architecture is typical, and therefore the complexes in Turkey will not be able to operate with maximum efficiency"

I didn’t understand what they wanted to say with that ... in general. That network infrastructure is bad? Or that Turkey will not be able to use this opportunity for itself? Or does an air defense system absolutely need to interact with the F-35 for maximum efficiency? Or is the S-400 bad? Or what?
As if the network infrastructure operates in Western weapons ...

[Thrifty]

We are talking about the incompatibility of approaches to the creation of a network infrastructure by us and the West. ..

[Wedmak]

Come on, if you wanted to - you would make a converter in a year and a half. It's just that hundreds of words are annoying when you can say a dozen. (Turkey, you cannot buy weapons in the Russian Federation, only American ones. Even when we promise you it for several years, but we do not sell it!)

[Pete mitchell]

At one time, when South Korea was offered the S-300, the Americans motivated the refusal in the same way - you will not be able to integrate them into your control system: the Koreans smiled and kept silent, but the deal did not work out for various reasons. The air defense system is integrated and ensures the flow of information in both directions: the Turks, having secured their air defense, made a huge hole in this information field, plus, of course, they took part of their space out of control; plus give them the F-35 - oh, the embarrassment can come out

[Egoza]

Quote: Wedmak

Or is the S-400 bad?

They bought the S-400, they will also buy the planes from Russia. And the dog will be all right.

[xorek]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: Wedmak

Or is the S-400 bad?

They bought the S-400, they will also buy the planes from Russia. And the dog will be all right.

Similarly, Elena, the Turks know something about the capabilities of the Russian air defense and keep quiet .. And the Amers are torn and thrown))))

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: xorek

the Turks know something about the capabilities of the Russian air defense and keep quiet ..

That's right: the Americans are shaking so that the Turks do not open their mouths and publicize features of American trade And it seems to me that the Turks remember very well how they were "twisted" during the tender for attack helicopters - in the east, the Sultan cannot afford a second time step on a rake - will lose respect. I agree with a colleague

Quote: Thrifty

The Turks will even buy Chinese or our fighters. The losers will be the Yankees, because in the long term this is the loss of the Turkish arms market, where Turkish companies are actively fighting to make import substitution in Turkish

[xorek]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Exactly so: the Americans are shaking so that the Turks do not open their mouths and publicize the peculiarities of American trade.

Do not say, even went to the disadvantages, you see from the Israeli "tovaischey" they are very interested in the sale of the F-35 .. And try to say something against them, such a howl begins

[Pete mitchell]

We have already said - I will not ignore the merits of the F-35, but we will not compare the Lighting II and the Adir - the sons of Israel are not so stupid to acquire a naked Penguin, even at amerov's expense - their machine is more advanced.
For any reason, the Americans could not allow a situation in which the 35th would fall under the 400th review - there is a risk of embarrassment. The fact that the Adirs carry out raids in the SAR is an agreement most likely

[xorek]

Thank you, there is something to think about ... the software there development speaks them.
So they are pressured to buy differently ..
Business!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: xorek

.On there developments say them ... Business!

There is not just software, there is an architecture open to them - they themselves determine the final product, which is not allowed for everyone.

[Wedmak]

features of American trade

.. everyone already knows very well. Only either there is nowhere to go, or they themselves are involved - bribed, or the dreamers of wunderwaves. Who to relate to whom, I think, is not difficult to distribute.
Only a few can simply buy what they need, without looking back at the US pressure.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Wedmak

either there is nowhere to go, or they themselves are involved - bribed ... Just a few can buy themselves what they need, without looking back at the US pressure.

Bribed - what is not a democratic word in accordance with the concepts airpean values - probably "loyal" would be more correct which translates to us understandable - they are kept for Faberge

[Revolver]

Quote: Egoza

They bought the S-400, they will also buy the planes from Russia.

To buy them, they must be. And yet they are not even for themselves, not that for sale. How many Su-57 squadrons are there in the Aerospace Forces? And even the Su-35 and MiG-35?

[voyaka uh]

"Is network infrastructure bad?" ///
---
Not bad, but difficult.
This means that the S-400 is a long-range system. But the complex itself is necessary
cover from enemy attacks with Bukami and Armor.
That is, it is necessary to create a network with a single avionics and, played by a team of operators and
a whole fleet of various launchers, antennas and radars.

[Wedmak]

And they would have bought it for their complex ... It's not dozens, like ours. Considering that one S-400 will easily close the sky over Istanbul, protecting it from any terrorists flying by.

[NF68]

In this case, Russia can sell its Su-57 to the Turks. The US will clearly not improve this mood. Although selling the Su-57 to the Turks is also risky.

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Wedmak

for the S-400 "network architecture is typical, and therefore the complexes in Turkey will not be able to operate with maximum efficiency"

I didn’t understand what they wanted to say with that ... in general. That network infrastructure is bad? Or that Turkey will not be able to use this opportunity for itself? Or does an air defense system absolutely need to interact with the F-35 for maximum efficiency? Or is the S-400 bad? Or what?
As if the network infrastructure operates in Western weapons ...

I will simply say - money = policy * price (now this is the formula for the cost of goods)
ps of any product

[smart fellow]

Buy from South Korea. T-155 Fırtına based on South Korean K-9, Altay based on South Korean K2 Black Panther. Rather, they even slap their own project based on the South Korean KF-21 Boramae. Moreover, the South Koreans are going to upgrade it to a 5th generation heavy fighter. In just 10 years, the South Koreans will be ready to sell it.

[Cowbra]

We'll have to buy Su)))) Say so yourself. By the way, judging by the flight of the S-200 missile through all of Israel, which was shot down by 10 Petriot missiles and 2 Oak Kumpol, the US air defense and satellites are outdated at birth. Greetings from the S-400)))

[xorek]

Turkey with the acquisition of the S-400 has come to a state of lagging behind the Greek and Israeli air forces

Or maybe, on the contrary, Turkey exhaled and glory to Allah said that it didn’t buy these expensive fighters when it tested the Russian S-400s. But they modestly keep quiet about this and thank Putin ..?

[Oleg Aviator]

There is an option to buy in Russia ...

[TermNachTer]

Or maybe the Turks were lucky that they flew past the F - 35? It has not yet demonstrated its real effectiveness. There is no need to talk about Israel, it has its own specifics)))

[tatiana korzhenko]

What is "our"? It has been tested in combat conditions and has shown excellent efficiency.

[Wedmak]

showed excellent efficiency

Throw rockets from behind the mountains, using the relief, from the territory of another country? At the same time, clearly knowing that you will not be shot down, even if you are in the affected area? And not because he is not so noticeable, but because they quietly agreed ...

[tatiana korzhenko]

And where did you get the idea that he is throwing missiles “from behind the mountains?” Just because the Syrian agitprop reports so? Well, then they definitely did not agree with the Syrians. They are trying, but it doesn’t work out very well, they end up in Cyprus, then to Bedouins.

[TermNachTer]

Where did he show? In countries where the word air defense is not known at all?

[tatiana korzhenko]

In Syria, they do not know the word air defense? This is news! What is it that your Supreme is deceiving everyone?

[TermNachTer]

I have already spoken about Israel. But I will repeat myself. First, the Jews do not touch Russian objects, and the Syrian air defense system is in a "killed" state. Because since 2012, the main thing for them is the ground forces. Secondly, there is a very convenient terrain, for aviation operations - I jumped out from behind the mountain, fired a homing missile and again over the mountain. Thirdly, to ensure the departure, the Jews will use all forces and means. RTR, electronic warfare, satellite and agent intelligence - for the "killed" Syrian air defense, this is a lot. Give an example where the F - 35 was used against a normal air defense system and not in an ideal environment?

[tatiana korzhenko]

And, now the Syrian air defense is “abnormal” and “killed?” So, your Supreme Commander is still lying?

[TermNachTer]

I do not have commanders-in-chief at all, I live in Ukraine, we have an acting chief. clown, pretending)))

[3danimal]

Give an example where the F - 35 was used against a normal air defense system and not in an ideal environment?

But where to find such conditions?
Did they use one of the modern Russian aircraft?

[TermNachTer]

So after all, no one is shouting to the whole planet that Russian planes are the best, as mattress toppers do)))

[3danimal]

By the totality of characteristics:
AFAR radar, good range, built-in sighting equipment for work on the ground, infrared cameras on the body, in stealth competes only with the F-22. There are 650+ built.
The F-35A has a very high maneuverability for an aircraft without OVT.
How many planes are there in the world with such a set?
And there is the F-35V, which has no analogues at all.

[TermNachTer]

Very mentally, touched to tears))) when and where mattress "invisible" were used against real (serious) air defense. All their advantages, so far, are only a rough theory, not tested by practice. That's when they demonstrate their advantages in a real battle, then we will judge whether they are worth the money that has been poured into them and continue to be poured into them))) or perhaps much better 4 +, three times cheaper.

[3danimal]

All their advantages, so far, only a pure theory, not proven by practice

Following your logic, are the designers of the Su-57 purely theoreticians?
Reduced ESR / EOP gives a tactical advantage, reducing the detection / capture and guidance range of the aircraft.

That's when they demonstrate their advantages in a real battle, that's when we will judge whether they are worth the money.

The same can be said about our Su-57.
Why radar in the wing? Some kind of bombers ..
There are F-35A maneuvers on video, publicly available.
It is superior to the Su-27/30 without OVT.

they are worth the money that they have been vbuhivat and continue to vbuhivat))) or perhaps much better 4 +, three times cheaper.

And even cheaper for 3 generations, or 4 "no plus". Flood the sky with kamikaze ..
If the gigantic military budget is enough, why not invest? The pace of production is solid.

[TermNachTer]

With modern computer technology, the average hand of a specialist, such cartoons will draw - you will sob with emotion. There were a lot of terrible videos from NKAO, and then somehow it turned out that they were mainly Turkish and Jewish advertisements. Again, a real battle with a real air defense or a fighter will show how good they are.

[3danimal]

https://youtu.be/MJLoW1ClNE0

This is not a drawing.
No wonder:
The aircraft appeared 30 years later than the Su-27.
More information about him on English-language resources, NOT on avia.pro

[Zaurbek]

A far-fetched problem .... there is F16Viper, EF, Rafal .... Su30, Su35 ..... J10.

[Basarev]

Turkey could bare the sky ... Or it could buy our planes.

[Kaw]

Kazapoglu says that in such a situation, the Turkish authorities "need to abandon the S-400 in order to still get the F-35."

Or build the Su-57 together with Russia.

[voyaka uh]

For Russia, that would be a great success, by the way.
The Turks learned how to make avionics, they have a very modern machine tool
the park. They have mastered many of the complex technologies of the F-35.
They have young, energetic engineers and enthusiasm. They work quickly.
But Russia will have to quit pretending to be such a "big brother"
"experienced teachers".

[no better place for]

It's nice to read adequate comments. There are so few of them here.
I completely agree with you. In the place of Ukraine, there could be a Russian Federation, and from this cooperation everyone was more useful

[Keyser soze]

The Turks now have about 40-50 F16 Block 52, all other utter junk. And they locked their pilots in jails.

Let's see what the Greeks have new .... 24 Raphales, perhaps the Americans will let them out of turn 24 F35s, and 70 F16s will be upgraded to Block 72. So at the end of next year, air superiority will be, if not now. And until the end of Erdogan, nothing shines for them from Western equipment. And the transition to Russian fighters is impossible, like money - changing the entire infrastructure, retraining pilots, mechanics, new repair plants, buying ammunition ... and when will Russia be able to make a hundred Su 57? And how much will it cost? Where can you get a light, single-engine fighter like a workhorse like the F16? The Turks will not pull this .... they have an economy in the priest and so on.

[rocket757]

EDAM: Without F-35 fighters, not received due to the acquisition of the S-400 from Russia, the Turkish Air Force is rapidly becoming obsolete

... The question of questions ... how is the sultan going to get out ???

[And Us Rat]

The air defense-based doctrine does not meet Turkish national security requirements.

And it serves it right, but it is quite in line with the Russian financial and security interests of the countries of the region.
The F-35 is an offensive weapon, and the S-400 is a defensive one.
The bully Erdogan does not need to be given a new baton, he was given a new shield, so let him sit with him, it will be more whole.

[Skif]

Ltd! This edamu has not been weak greenfinches.

[Prisoner]

"According to the head of the military programs department of EDAM, Jan Kazapoglu," Turkey missed the opportunity to re-equip with American F-35 fighters, and the likely adversaries in the region - Greece and Israel - are doing it successfully "..." (c) This Jan Kozupopolu looks like an F-35 fan. Let Turkey buy another S-400 and then the purchases of Greece and Israel will not bother so much.

[AC130 Gunship]

My 2 pennies:
1) It is very doubtful that Turkey, as a NATO member, will want to buy Russian planes. On the other hand, the Luftwaffe flew excellently for 15 years on 2 Mig29 squadrons, which they transferred from the GDR. This means that the problem of friend or foe is solvable
2) Turkey is very close to Frg. Ever since the 1st mtrovoy war. Almost every 4th German has relatives there. Therefore, if necessary, the Germans will always help the Turks. Both money and iron ...

[Peaceful SEO]

Everything is just like a broom. Buy su35 and su57

[trahterist]

Quote: Tatiana Korzhenko

In Syria, they do not know the word air defense? This is news! What is it that your Supreme is deceiving everyone?

There, the F-22, too, "successfully completed the tasks."
True, which specific and which results are silent.
Another high-ly-like, and no more.
Another question in Lob-Khmeimim or Tartus were attacked by F-35s ??
Shot down at least one unit of the RF Aerospace Forces ??
The bolt floated there, dully as in a tank.
And an agreement between the Aerospace Forces and the sons of Israel is also not excluded.
But there is only one fact - against the Russian systems of motion, there has never been and is not (and is unlikely to be).
And so, What can you not think of, so that the vassals sell an openly "raw" product, we read it, we know
Goodbye.

[trahterist]

Quote: TermNachTER

I have already spoken about Israel. But I will repeat myself. First, the Jews do not touch Russian objects, and the Syrian air defense system is in a "killed" state. Because since 2012, the main thing for them is the ground forces. Secondly, there is a very convenient terrain, for aviation operations - I jumped out from behind the mountain, fired a homing missile and again over the mountain. Thirdly, to ensure the departure, the Jews will use all forces and means. RTR, electronic warfare, satellite and agent intelligence - for the "killed" Syrian air defense, this is a lot. Give an example where the F - 35 was used against a normal air defense system and not in an ideal environment?

Will not.
There are some emotions "ftritspyatsuchiyvmirrestelstelstels" and nothing more, textures Zero.

[Curious Katya]

It's time to buy the Su-35

[Narak-zempo]

That's what I understand, mnogohodovochka.
Received money from the Sultan for the air defense system, deprived him of planes and quarreled with mattresses