Military Review

American organization UCS: Hypersonic weapons are not suitable for a full-fledged existential threat

101

In the West, they cannot decide in any way in their attitude to hypersonic arms... While the Pentagon intelligence report identifies Russia's hypersonic weapons as a direct threat to the United States, publications in individual magazines say that hypersonic weapons are more of a "hype".


The American organization UCS ("Union of Interested Scientists") publishes material in which it is stated that hypersonic weapons are today presented as a revolutionary technology, but claims about the characteristics of hypersonic missiles are rarely confirmed by objective data.

From the material of the aforementioned Union, which includes both professional scientists and popularizers of science:

These technologies began to develop back in the Cold War era, when the United States was solving issues of countering the USSR's anti-missile defense system. Today one can hear statements that hypersonic missiles are capable of hitting over-the-horizon targets in a matter of seconds, being practically unattainable for missile defense systems.

The UCS calls this kind of hypersonic weapon claim "nothing more than hyperbole" - "an exaggeration of the properties that this kind of weapon actually possesses."

From the article:

If the US is to develop a sensible and cost-effective hypersonic weapons policy, it must first address several key issues.

The following are the same questions:

"Do hypersonic weapons have strategically important advantages over existing missile technologies?"

"Are the current costs of these weapons commensurate with their strategic benefits?"

"Will US participation in the hypersonic arms race keep the nation safe?"

The authors of the material believe that modern hypersonic weapons can provide the performance of certain tasks, but only in the "niche" (narrow) segment. The UCS believes that such a weapon is not suitable for a full-fledged existential threat.

From the article:

Hypersonic weapons are so named due to their ability to move at least 5 times faster than sound. But this is misleading. After all, individual ballistic missiles, which are available from the United States and other countries, at certain stages of the trajectory are capable of developing a speed that is more than 5 times higher than the sound one.

Further, the authors point out that hypersonic weapons are often associated with gliding blocks - with the ability to fly at low altitudes and maneuver. But such functions, as the members of the said Union write, are also possessed by ordinary cruise missiles. And such missiles can hardly be called an existential danger for an entire state.

The authors talk about the Russian Avangard and the Chinese Dongfeng-17.

At the same time, as noted, the probable motives for their possible use are constantly changing, which the UCS considers "confirmation" of the fact that there is still more noise around hypersonic weapons than there are unambiguous reasons for discussing its effectiveness.
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  1. Prisoner
    Prisoner 5 May 2021 12: 11
    +9
    laughing "Green grapes" (c). Oh well.
    1. Installer
      Installer 5 May 2021 12: 15
      +6
      She flies much faster than they will discuss and decide everything)))
      1. NIKN
        NIKN 5 May 2021 12: 17
        +6
        but claims about the characteristics of hypersonic missiles are so far rarely supported by objective data.

        Well, gentlemen, for confirmation it is necessary to use them (against whom you don’t guess?), "Objective" data and ICBMs with nuclear fillings have not been confirmed.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 5 May 2021 12: 27
      +7
      Quote: Captive
      "Green grapes" (c). Oh well.


      1. ironic
        ironic 6 May 2021 14: 56
        0
        Why not on donkeys? Because they don't fly?
    3. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 5 May 2021 12: 48
      +5
      Quote: Captive
      "Green grapes" (c). Oh well

      Exactly! When combat-ready samples appear in the United States, they will change their equipment in a jump.
    4. Thrifty
      Thrifty 5 May 2021 13: 28
      +2
      Evono how! Now there is an "American hypersound" equal to 2/3 of the usual hypersound, which is at least 6 SIX !!! times the speed of sound in the atmosphere. If there is no mind to create such a weapon, a demogical conclusion is drawn about its ineffectiveness and uselessness!
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 5 May 2021 14: 01
        +3
        Namely, and after all, 10 years ago, the Americans declared that the hypersound of the wunderwaffle would allow creating a system of a global disarming strike ... and then they did not shmogl .. and now they declare that "oh, we don't need it for nothing"
        1. ironic
          ironic 6 May 2021 15: 05
          0
          They do not declare this, they declare that the solutions are niche and develop mainly the tactical direction.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 6 May 2021 16: 18
            0
            They ALREADY do not declare, but before very much even declared ..
            1. ironic
              ironic 6 May 2021 20: 42
              -1
              What? Can I have an example?
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 6 May 2021 21: 06
                0
                laughing lazy to look, honestly
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Alex777
    Alex777 5 May 2021 12: 17
    +4
    The opinion of scientists is very important. What about the opinion of the military?
    And happiness is not in hypersound, but in the number of such missiles.
    When there are enough of them, it is undoubtedly a threat. hi
    1. dauria
      dauria 5 May 2021 13: 40
      +1
      And happiness is not in hypersound, but in the number of such missiles.


      What kind of missiles? This article is about this. The word "hypersound" has been turned into a kind of "trademark". Ah, "dolce gabana".
      Range, trajectory or altitude, speed on trajectory sections, engine type, weight, dimensions, warhead mass, guidance system. What are we discussing?
      Say "secret, none of our business"? Then it's different. What exactly are you
      would you like to see it in a "hypersonic" rocket? At least the conversation will not be about the magic lamp of Aladdin.
      1. lucul
        lucul 5 May 2021 14: 04
        +2
        Range, trajectory or altitude, speed on trajectory sections, engine type, weight, dimensions, warhead mass, guidance system. What are we discussing

        Rockets, which can exceed the speed of sound, fly outside the atmosphere along a ballistic trajectory, their trajectory (and the point of impact) can be easily calculated almost from the start. And to fly them for at least an hour - during this time you can do a lot.
        And hypersonic missiles do not fly along a ballistic trajectory - that is why they are dangerous, their trajectory cannot be calculated in advance, the chances of being shot down are zero.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 5 May 2021 14: 31
          +4
          Russian and American conventional ballistic ICBMs
          fly to targets for about 25-35 minutes.
          Hypersonic strategic glider Avangard will fly deliberately
          longer due to braking in the upper atmosphere.
          Even very thin air slows down the warhead, especially
          planning.
          Yes, the trajectory will not be ballistic, and it will not be possible
          calculate in advance. But on the other hand, the device itself will be clearly visible due to
          a long train behind him.
          So there are pros and cons.
          1. lucul
            lucul 5 May 2021 14: 56
            0
            American conventional ballistic ICBMs
            fly to targets for about 25-35 minutes.

            If you launch it from the Baltic Sea, then yes, but if you launch it from the territory of America, then one hour.
            During this hour, you can fly off on a supersonic plane to a safe distance from the point of impact. And in this hour, you can focus several Nudol anti-missiles, against this missile, which can shoot it down at an altitude of 200-300 km from the earth's surface.
            Hypersonic strategic glider Avangard will fly deliberately
            longer due to braking in the upper atmosphere.
            Even very thin air slows down the warhead, especially
            planning.

            What is the shortest distance between two points? Straight or parabola? ICBM missiles were forced to fly along a ballistic trajectory only due to the physical destruction of the missile during flight in the atmosphere, this nuance in the hypersonic missiles of Russia has been overcome.
            Yes, the trajectory will not be ballistic, and it will not be possible
            calculate in advance. But on the other hand, the device itself will be clearly visible due to
            a long train behind him.

            Well, yes, you can beautifully admire your death.
            1. ironic
              ironic 6 May 2021 15: 04
              0
              Over the Moscow region so far ...

              But only so far these missiles are not in service for some reason. The avant-garde is a glider that glides along the upper boundary of the atmosphere.

              You can also admire the approaching tracks of the so far known warheads. Also death. Moreover, it is also highly accurate.

              PS Depending on the launch point and before target location, Minuteman III takes 35-45 minutes.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 6 May 2021 15: 48
        +1
        What kind of missiles? This article is about this. The word "hypersound" has been turned into a kind of "trademark".

        We can only discuss Zircons specifically.
        Normal rocket. Instead of Onyx, it will be fine.
        And for ships, and the coastal complex, and for the army.

        Range, trajectory or altitude, speed on trajectory sections, engine type, weight, dimensions, warhead mass, guidance system. What are we discussing?

        For Zircon, almost everything has already been announced. hi
    2. ironic
      ironic 6 May 2021 14: 57
      0
      This applies to any missile.
    3. Antipatr
      Antipatr 2 June 2021 12: 32
      0
      Scientists are more honest.
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 2 June 2021 12: 57
        0
        The question is, how informed are they?
  4. Machete
    Machete 5 May 2021 12: 19
    +2
    Hypersound with a nuclear warhead is not a threat?
    Moreover, they like them, they can intercept ordinary missiles ...
    Oh well....
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 5 May 2021 12: 29
      +1
      Ballistic missile nuclear warheads are now on hypersound.
      The article is actually about this.
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 May 2021 13: 09
        -2
        Quote: Alex777
        Ballistic missile nuclear warheads are now on hypersound.

        When flying horizontally in the atmosphere?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 5 May 2021 14: 35
          0
          The vanguard does not fly horizontally in the atmosphere.
          It does not have a sustainer jet engine like the KR. Only maneuverable gas.
          He plans from space into the thin layers of the atmosphere,
          and over the target it goes to a steep dive with strong braking.
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 May 2021 14: 43
            -1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            The vanguard does not fly horizontally in the atmosphere.

            The vanguard is not a rocket. Zircon flies. And the nuclear warhead does not fly, but falls vertically from space. YABCH too
            there is no sustainer jet engine, like the KR. Only maneuverable gas.

            however, this does not prevent some from calling nuclear warheads hypersonic weapons.
            1. ironic
              ironic 6 May 2021 14: 59
              +1
              Zircon is still being tested. It flies when in combat equipment and industrial version.
              1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 May 2021 15: 06
                +2
                Quote: ironic
                It flies when in combat equipment and industrial version.

                And now what, a plywood model is carried on a cart, and sea targets are hit only in reports?
                1. ironic
                  ironic 6 May 2021 15: 31
                  0
                  Not plywood and not a mock-up, but laboratory copies for testing.
                  1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 May 2021 15: 34
                    +2
                    In this case, how do you think "laboratory" samples differ from "industrial" ones? This is not a prototype or a technology demonstrator.
                    1. ironic
                      ironic 6 May 2021 20: 41
                      0
                      Have you ever created a multidisciplinary device from scratch in a design office / startup?
                      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 May 2021 20: 51
                        +2
                        That is, do you think that Zircons created from scratch flew in 2020?
                      2. ironic
                        ironic 6 May 2021 21: 01
                        0
                        Of course, Zircon, as a product, was created from scratch, even if it borrowed some developments from Onyx or some other earlier projects. A multidisciplinary project is rarely created without borrowing certain developments, in any area.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 5 May 2021 14: 56
        0
        When flying horizontally in the atmosphere?

        And what does horizontal flight have to do with it?
        UCS didn't talk about him. Only about the speed.
        From the article:
        Hypersonic weapons are so named due to their ability to move at least 5 times faster than sound. But this is misleading. After all, individual ballistic missiles, which are available from the United States and other countries, at certain stages of the trajectory are capable of developing a speed that is more than 5 times higher than the sound one.
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 May 2021 15: 00
          -1
          Quote: Alex777
          And what does horizontal flight have to do with it?

          Moreover, it has never occurred to anyone, except for the inhabitants of the VO and American scientists, to call ICBMs a hypersonic weapon. Whereas Zircon is a hypersonic anti-ship missile.
          What is the maximum height of the Zircon? Really, like ICBMs, thousands of kilometers?
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 5 May 2021 15: 02
            +1
            You are confusing. I did not call ICBMs hypersonic weapons.
            Just commenting on the level of understanding in the UCS organization mentioned in the article.
            Well, you, apparently, want to shine with knowledge. You are welcome. wink
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 5 May 2021 12: 21
    -13%
    All this hypersonic hysteria carries 2 tasks: propaganda and enrichment of military-industrial complex enterprises. The practical sense is minimal, as we fought with subsonic missiles and will continue. Hypersonic weapons, as they were before, remain, they carry limited tactical and strategic tasks. The FAU-2 was the first hypersonic missile, like all its other descendants.
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 May 2021 13: 00
      +1
      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
      The FAU-2 was the first hypersonic missile, like all its other descendants.

      The V-2 flew entirely at hypersonic speed?
      1. ironic
        ironic 6 May 2021 15: 14
        0
        Not entirely, but in a certain section of the trojectory flew.
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 May 2021 15: 27
          0
          Quote: ironic
          Not entirely, but at a certain part of the trajectory it flew.

          Not flying, but falling. Then it would be more fair to call hypersonic gravity.
          Suppose you climb onto some roof, throw off a coin from there, which, when falling, picks up a speed of 2 m / s. Do you think this will give you the right to call yourself a person capable of moving at a speed of 2 m / s?
          1. ironic
            ironic 6 May 2021 15: 30
            -1
            So I agree that it cannot be considered hypersonic, especially since it was falling in the atmosphere at a lower speed.
    2. KCA
      KCA 5 May 2021 13: 30
      +2
      We are urgently removing from service "Onyx", "Daggers", "Iskander", and "Tochka-U" is long overdue, why did they fight subsonic and will fight the United States, and they are a decree and an example for us to follow ???
      1. ironic
        ironic 6 May 2021 15: 09
        +2
        So the Caliber in the anti-ship missile version and so the future of this type of missile is with you, not the Onyx. The dagger is Iskander's already aerobalistic development. Point Y is really out of date. And yes, subsonic Gauges and Axes, as well as air X-s are more effective, albeit slower.
        1. KCA
          KCA 6 May 2021 15: 55
          +1
          The Onyx anti-ship missile system is our present and future, supersonic, not subsonic, Zircon is completing state tests, the X-32 air-launched anti-ship missile system was overclocked to 1994MAX back in 8 and was told that this is not the limit, there is no serial data, but you pray for axes, which out of a hundred issued 76 do not reach anywhere at all
          1. ironic
            ironic 6 May 2021 19: 14
            -1
            Well, how BRAMOS is driven into the water by a blow from top to bottom Hindus are already aware. And supersonic does not help to avoid this. So far, the tests are being completed on the only aircraft with a laboratory alteration for it. And the only M3M has not yet acquired state acceptance. What was in 94th is the past, and the present - according to open sources, its speed varies from 3.2 to 4.6M, depending on the marching section. That's all for now. And we pray to Axes is disgusting, because this is idolatry, besides we do not have them in service with Axes, but you can pray to the idols that the uryaks write to you about missiles that do not reach / do not reach anywhere, but for some reason all the targets are hit. what you personally actually do.
          2. 3danimal
            3danimal 6 May 2021 19: 59
            0
            Air-launched anti-ship missiles Kh-32 back in 1994 was dispersed to 8MAX

            You can easily guess the recipe for the record: the lack of warheads when it is reached. The thrust remains the same, and the mass has decreased by almost 20%.
            Serial anti-ship missiles flies with 900kg warheads, and you also need to hit the target with something.
            As a result, it is slower.
            An important difference: despite the rocket engine and the need to carry an oxidizer on itself, the mass of the warhead is as much as 20% of the mass of the rocket.
            For the same Onyx - only 10%.
            It is explained by the fact that Onyx has a ramjet engine that works until it hits the target (the final section is low-altitude), and the Kh-22 / 32s fly only along a quasi-ballistic trajectory (its peak is the same 40 km).
            The engine works only a little more than half the way when it is launched at maximum range, and after it is turned off, the speed and height of the rocket begin to gradually decrease (up to 30 km and below).
            Instead of a 5 ton X-32, you can take 3 subsonic 3m54E1 Caliber, with a low-altitude flight profile.
            1. KCA
              KCA 7 May 2021 04: 52
              +1
              For SBCH X-32, 200kt 900kg of mass is excessive, and it makes no sense to put more than one, the warhead is monoblock, they accelerated it to hypersound in the dive site on the target, from a height of 40 km or higher, I don't know if the engine was running, or only due to the acceleration of free fall too I do not know, the Germans know, with whom they were kissing on the gums at that time, and the GosMKB "Raduga" had a joint project to study hypersonic movement, incidentally, a little after this crazy cooperation, the development of hypersonic X-90 and GELA with a scramjet engine was officially closed, which is unofficial I don’t know how, in your authoritative opinion, "Caliber", and even the export version with a range of 280 km, can be suspended on the SU-24 or TU-22M3? Are you friends with your head? And again, there is no official data on the 3M54 anti-ship missiles XNUMXMXNUMX of various versions of submarines, NK and, possibly, ground, only for Club-K, which was never in service with the Armed Forces / Navy, but was only offered for export
              1. 3danimal
                3danimal 7 May 2021 06: 31
                -1
                The main warhead of the X-32 is conventional, but it is heavy.
                Caliber ", and even an export version with a range of 280 km can be suspended on the SU-24 or TU-22M3

                Non-export will have a long range, I believe, of the order of 500+ km.
                Aircraft - modify or use new ones. The same Su-34 is quite capable of taking 2pcs 3m54E1 (weighing 1,3-1,5t).
                1. KCA
                  KCA 7 May 2021 07: 13
                  +1
                  Again you write about a product with the letter "E", which unobtrusively hints that this is an export version, about products without an "E" even for "Caliber" there is nothing specific, and what they write on the Internet is based either on "E" or on data about ancestor of "Caliber" "Garnet", which is more than forty years old, and it was developed for use only with SBS, no conventional options were supposed, no need to tie a penis to grandmother, grandfather will not work
                  1. 3danimal
                    3danimal 7 May 2021 08: 51
                    -1
                    But what about the 3m14, which was launched in ISIS sheds / warehouses?
                    There is a GOS for anti-ship missiles based on it (but information about them was removed on the manufacturer's website, "Radar-MMS"), there is a warhead.

                    I’m still talking about 3m541, a subsonic anti-ship missile.
                    1. KCA
                      KCA 7 May 2021 09: 13
                      +1
                      Hospidia, well, again you are citing export performance data, you have data on all versions of the Caliber and the supersonic Onyx, and not the export Yakhont or Bramos, no, but what are we talking about then? Don't you see the words "export version" on your nameplate? Spies and traitors have always been and will always be, they were caught and caught, but if it was so easy to find out the data on weapons not for yesterday, but for today or tomorrow, no one would fuss, in Russia the VKR (special departments) work for a decent level, and they catch, and the slag is launched, here is "Petrel" and "Poseidon", what is it, a cartoon, a real weapon or even a deepfake? Due to my lack of education, I can not even imagine what the RC did with a direct-flow nuclear reactor, well, just how they treated radioactive contamination in the USSR (when they fully realized what it was) and in Russia I know, I have you can see the pipe above the reactor from the window, and I can't even see the reactor open directly over the entire territory of the country in a nightmare, then what is the "Petrel"? Look in the performance of "E" (sarcasm overt)
                      1. 3danimal
                        3danimal 7 May 2021 09: 21
                        -1
                        what the CD did with a direct-flow nuclear reactor, well, that's exactly how they treated radioactive contamination in the USSR (when they fully realized what it was)

                        There was an accident in the Arkhangelsk region, a radioactive release, the dead.
                        https://novayagazeta.ru/amp/articles/2019/08/10/81560-burevestnik-unes-sem-zhizney

                        Now NOT the USSR. For example, there was no “we can repeat” rhetoric in it.
                        The generation of veterans is gone, people who have never fought on a WWII scale came to power.

                        PS I didn't talk about Petrel at all.
                      2. KCA
                        KCA 7 May 2021 09: 55
                        +1
                        You are mistaken, and it is strong what happened at the landfill, was there an outburst, no one will ever tell, and to believe everything that is written on the Internet is not respecting yourself, hiley like, so now the evidence base looks like? Negritos Colin Powell, I remember, waved a test tube with something that very much resembled seminal fluid before the US Congress, and then, being a pensioner, admitted that the mess was complete, and there was no real information about the presence of chemical weapons and a tank of weapons in Iraq was not, and then they did not find anything at all
                        Don't tell me about safety, I know and saw how this is done, employees of the radiation safety department every day check special cans for collecting precipitation located around the reactor, while picking mushrooms and berries during the season. There will never be more wars on the scale of WW2, even one missile from a small, hunted DPRK can claim more American lives than WW1 and WW2 combined
                      3. 3danimal
                        3danimal 7 May 2021 10: 03
                        -1
                        even one missile from a small, hunted DPRK can claim more American lives than WW1 and WW2 combined

                        One or two GMBD must handle.
                        But no one wants to risk it, it's not worth it.
                        Don't tell me about safety, I know and saw how this is done, employees of the radiation safety department check special banks for collecting precipitation every day,

                        We remember that the first noise due to radiation (Chernobyl) began to raise not in the USSR, but its neighbors. Secrecy, everything is "in the fist" ...
                      4. KCA
                        KCA 7 May 2021 11: 23
                        +1
                        They did not raise a noise, they simply took out all residents from Pripyat and from the infected area within 400 hours, but quietly, there was no Internet yet, but during the accident in Fukushima, the Internet was already there, but it was easier there - why would they take people out, let us raise the permissible radioactive background XNUMX times, maybe you don’t know, during the accident on Trimale Island in the USA, but maybe you don’t know, there was no Internet either, the contamination of the area, to be honest, is less than during the Chernobol accident, so people were taken out there , whites, and the blacks were left to live on, well, first of all, who the hell needs them, and secondly - they are the same blacks, who will count them and follow them
                      5. 3danimal
                        3danimal 7 May 2021 12: 10
                        -1
                        There was a crowd of journalists on Three Mail Island that day.
                        And the accident is immeasurably less serious: no destruction of the reactor vessel, melting of part of the fuel rods and the ingress of radioactive substances into the coolant, some contamination of the air in the ventilation system.
                        The activity of radioactive iodine emissions calculated for the period from March 28 to May 8 was about 15 Ci

                        The maximum radiation level recorded at the outlet of the ventilation system was 3 x-rays / h.

                        In Chernobyl, the explosion turned everything out.
                        The total activity of the release, including inert radioactive gases, was, according to the UNSCEAR and the IAEA, up to 14⋅1018 Bq (approximately 38⋅107 Ci)
                        On the roof of the reactor, Max level reached 10000-12000 roentgen / h.


                        The first message about the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant appeared in the Soviet media on April 27, 36 hours after the disaster. The announcer of the Pripyat radio broadcasting network announced the collection and temporary evacuation of residents of the city [47].

                        After assessing the scale of radioactive contamination, it became clear that the evacuation of the city of Pripyat, which was carried out on April 27, would be required.

                        The accident itself occurred at 01:23 on April 26.
                      6. KCA
                        KCA 7 May 2021 12: 27
                        +1
                        And how about the export of the population? Negroes were left in the contaminated territories or not? Let's remember then Bhopal at UCIL, where the owners were shareholders from the United States, the accident was recognized as the largest man-made in the number of deaths immediately, the deaths from the consequences were not counted and no one counts, about 200 people, how many inferior people will be born is not known, pesticides are such an unpredictable Chernobyl is resting, everything is fine there in the exclusion zone, animals breed like in paradise, mutants have not been found for all the time, everyone is healthy and vigorous, people also live and do not sweat
                      7. 3danimal
                        3danimal 7 May 2021 12: 43
                        -1
                        Negroes were left in the contaminated territories or not?

                        Infection is less than 25 million times, if anything (25 333 333)
                        Too lazy to read about the accident before writing.
                        Let's remember then UCIL's Bhopal, where the owners were shareholders from the United States, the accident was recognized as the largest man-made in the number of deaths at once, the deaths from the consequences have not been counted and no one counts, about 200 people

                        Well, we decided to jump to a more convenient example.
                        Shareholders can be from anywhere. You can too, or me.
                        Indians, this is why I'm not surprised.

                        In Chernobyl, it turned out that the slovenliness widespread in our country concerns not only everyday life and non-hazardous industries. It is found everywhere.
                        There were no protective clothing at the station, the firefighters did not, nor were they normal devices for measuring radiation.
                        A portable dosimeter showed its maximum - 5 roentgens, a larger one locked in a safe - its maximum, 200. The one that was mined for 1000 quickly broke down (no wonder). Before the arrival of the military, they could not find out what they were dealing with belay
                      8. KCA
                        KCA 8 May 2021 04: 18
                        +1
                        Do you even know that the common name dosimeter is complete bullshit? The only type of dosimeter is a photographic film in a capsule, which was worn by employees who have contact with fissile elements, and the level of received ionizing radiation was determined by its light, and what "measures radiation" is called an ionizing radiation detector, alpha, which will delay even a sheet of paper. Beta, here it is a little thicker, a dozen sheets of paper are needed, and gamma, here even a ton of waste paper will not help, the ionizing radiation detector cannot break, the old Soviet one, with an arrow, digital, maybe one scientist, the investigation proved that without malice, just a woodpecker, in a briefcase he took out a radioactive isotope from the territory of JINR, well, he automatically shoved papers and test tubes off the table, a siren at the entrance raised the floor of the city, and the isotope was not very bright, the smart guy worked with him even without a suit in his office, but the detector worked, and in Chernobyl, straight some dolboyas worked, especially in the protection, do not read the Internet in the morning, especially anti-Soviet
                      9. 3danimal
                        3danimal 8 May 2021 05: 15
                        -1
                        and in Chernobyl, some dolboyas were working, especially in security, do not read the Internet in the morning, especially anti-Soviet

                        I am interested in facts, but they are "sovetsk" or "anti-soviet" - all the same.
                        The evacuation was delayed for too long, none of the arriving firefighters knew about the danger and did not know about the threats and symptoms of high doses of radiation. In the city where the nuclear power plant operated.
                        Once again: at first, no one imagined the degree of danger.
                        A dosimeter with an arrow can show the intensity of ionizing radiation. But it, designed to indicate such a high level, simply did not exist.
                        Well, a separate topic is the reports of the late 80s, where it turns out that such a responsible object was built with violations of technology (the building itself), due to irresponsibility of supply and in order to be on time: for a bonus, vouchers.
                        Maybe nothing will happen.
                        It becomes creepy when you realize that everyday slovenliness takes place in such dangerous industries (you can also recall the accident at the nuclear submarine "Komsomolets" in 1989).
                        By the way, an important achievement (in relation to the accident) of the Soviet system was the ability to classify inconvenient (including for officials) information.
                        And the data on the critical vulnerability of RBMK reactors known since the beginning of the 80s (a sharp increase in reactivity at the moment the moderator rods entered) were ... classified. As a result, the reactor, brought to its "handle", exploded when it had to stop (according to the instructions) when inserting the rods.
                        There were figures that the thermal power of the reactor before the explosion exceeded 320 GW, with a nominal value of 3,2.
                        We got a super-powerful "dirty bomb", a world record.
                      10. KCA
                        KCA 8 May 2021 07: 39
                        +1
                        Are you friends with your head? 320GW would send the reactor lid directly to America, or somewhere else, to Australia or Antarctica, do you have any idea of ​​this figure? This is about 20 megatons of thermonuclear ammunition, what would be there to eliminate and extinguish? It would have blown away everything and everyone, all the more there was a thermal explosion, the reactor lid was clearly not designed for an energy of 320 GW, flew away at 10 more. It so happened that I live in Dubna, we have an international scientific center of JINR here, many employees were sent to Chernobyl during the accident, I know them, so they would laugh at your conjectures, yes, everyone is alive, my friends, but I do not exclude that there are also those who died during and after the liquidation of the accident
                      11. 3danimal
                        3danimal 8 May 2021 11: 12
                        -1
                        Are you friends with your head? 320GW would send the reactor lid directly to America, or somewhere else, to Australia or Antarctica, do you have any idea of ​​this figure? This is about 20 megatons of thermonuclear ammunition.

                        Are you friends with physics? And do you have enough responsibility to check the numbers before a categorical statement?
                        320 GWh (energy released per hour at this power) is the equivalent of an explosion of 0,275 MT of TNT.
                        In our case, the process took less than 1 s, say 0,2 s (the process before the explosion).
                        Divide 275 kT by 3600 (seconds per hour) and another 5, we get 15,2 tons of TNT.
                        The power of the explosion itself is called from 75 to 225 tons of TNT.
                        seismic stations in Norinsk and other nearby cities recorded weak shocks three seconds before the accident, equivalent in force to an explosion of 225 tons of TNT.

                        xenon isotopes could get into the vicinity of Cherepovets in three to four days only if they were thrown to a height of about two to three kilometers. And there, according to scientists, they could have been thrown only by a small nuclear explosion with a capacity of 75 tons of TNT equivalent in two or three nuclear fuel elements.

                        https://nplus1.ru/news/2017/11/20/Chernobyl-fission/amp

                        https://ria.ru/20171117/1509054346.html
                      12. KCA
                        KCA 8 May 2021 14: 36
                        +1
                        Isotopes of xenon, well, PPC you are a woodpecker, xenon is one of the most rare gases, well, here it is in the atmosphere of 0,000000 and many more zeros, you were not confused with radon, from a big mind?
                      13. 3danimal
                        3danimal 8 May 2021 14: 58
                        -2
                        About the isotope quote from the article. Read on.
                        And you are no longer "splashing megatons"? wink
                      14. KCA
                        KCA 9 May 2021 05: 23
                        0
                        If the article is impregnated with fuflomycin, why should I read it? To obtain one cubic meter of xenon, it is necessary to process 11 million cubic meters of atmospheric air, but was it thrown out in bags in Chornobyl? Where did it come from? Xenon isotopes are formed during the fission of uranium in fuel assemblies, but it is very difficult to catch it, the amount is scanty, and for sure, after the accident, it was not xenon that was detected, but isotopes of iodine, potassium, calcium, well, and the most disgusting cobalt
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 5 May 2021 13: 33
    +4
    Fiery cat - well, nonsense! Hypersound is not a panacea, but the possibility of defeat, and a guaranteed defeat due to its difference from supersonic, or subsonic missiles, one or another often, a strategic target that will be well protected, disguised, will not demote itself with anything.
    1. ironic
      ironic 6 May 2021 15: 13
      0
      This is nonsense, guaranteed. The real advantage of hypersonic weapons is a high-speed strike at a distance, just on the target unmasking itself, which is not able to quickly retreat.
  • lucul
    lucul 5 May 2021 13: 44
    -3
    The practical sense is minimal, as we fought with subsonic missiles and will continue. Hypersonic weapons, as they were before, remain, carry limited tactical and strategic tasks

    Don't make people laugh - hypersonic targets will be the highest priority targets - air defense radars, headquarters, power plants, military factories.
    A hypersonic missile is so dangerous that its trajectory cannot be calculated in advance.
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 5 May 2021 14: 03
      0
      more precisely, it is very difficult to intercept ... and after the air defense and air force facilities have been destroyed, conventional missiles can be used ... although I personally think that the development of Hermes is more important for Russia
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 5 May 2021 14: 32
    0
    bully That's it. As subsonic fought and will be ... those who do not have hypersonic. The whole question is how long they will have enough desire to fight. Ps6120 km / h is not hypersonic yet. hi
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 15: 10
    +1
    You will not be understood because it is not patriotic and because there is not a single hurry in your text.
  • ABC-schütze
    ABC-schütze 5 May 2021 12: 21
    +1
    And said "bye" is the key word. Hypersonic launch vehicles are an absolutely natural and logical, further stage in the DEVELOPMENT of rocket technologies. Moreover, across the entire spectrum of their use "in terms of range" of destruction (from operational-tactical to strategic (intercontinental)), according to the platforms used, the carriers and environments in which (of which) they affect the target. And those who do not realize this in time and "delay" at the start will find themselves in a strategic loss ...
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 5 May 2021 12: 23
    +2
    union interested scientists

    You can already end on the name. Here from this union on the site - half of Israel and the entire outskirts. Only scientists are like scientists parrots
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 May 2021 12: 31
    +6
    "Union of Interested Scientists"
    Interested in what? It seems that if the United States was armed with hypersonic weapons, the conclusions of these "scientists" would be diametrically opposite.
    1. Rusticolus
      Rusticolus 6 May 2021 18: 57
      0
      Why would they них They have hidden planes over there. We will have hyper missiles. Whoever got up first got the slippers.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 5 May 2021 12: 35
    -1
    Well, yes, the Chinese missile, developed against aircraft carriers and other large ships, is just stupid speculation, and inoperative mock-ups rolled around the square in the parade, because no one launched them right there. The logic is iron.
  • Troll
    Troll 5 May 2021 12: 36
    0
    What kind of scientists are they if they do not know that the main difference between hypersonic and ballistic ones is not speed, but height. Hypersonic missiles fly much lower than ballistic missiles and air defense simply does not have time to intercept them.
    ..
    But of course, no one forbids them to write pseudoscientific articles.
  • YOU
    YOU 5 May 2021 12: 42
    -1
    And with them everything is like that. Now Russia is a gas station, now a threat to the whole world. Here is the same thing, there is a threat to knock money out of the budget, but to reassure the public and justify your lagging behind, it's okay.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 5 May 2021 12: 43
    +1
    Well, yes, so far the amers do not have their own hypersound, so they have doubts about its applicability and other such contradictions, but as soon as it appears, the expediency of spending and tasks and so on will instantly be drawn by itself and no doubts either.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 5 May 2021 12: 47
    0
    In the West, they cannot decide in any way in their attitude to hypersonic weapons. While the Pentagon intelligence report identifies Russia's hypersonic weapons as a direct threat to the United States, publications in individual magazines say that hypersonic weapons are more of a "hype".
    Okay, keep making noise .... the more expensive the better!
  • O. Bender
    O. Bender 5 May 2021 13: 02
    0
    Well uzbagoytesya comrades "partners", and do not jerk. Everything will be fine! laughing
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 5 May 2021 13: 20
    +3
    Yes, the fact that we infected them with hypersonic disease is a big victory. (((Let them spend money.

    But in real life, it rather belongs to the category of "friend, help Trump knock money out of Congress for rearmament."

    A bunch of ZR models are already flying with hypersound. Ballistic missiles fly with hypersound (only earlier it was called the 1st cosmic speed, 27 declared M - just like it is).
    Warheads and decoys fall with hypersonic sound.

    And about hypersound near the ground, everyone is modestly silent. He is always somewhere where Gagarin used to fly ...

    The only difference is that earlier, let's say, 8 warheads and 8 targets fit into the rocket, but now only 2-4, but hypersonic ...
    1. lucul
      lucul 5 May 2021 13: 32
      -5
      A bunch of ZR models are already flying with hypersound. Ballistic missiles fly with hypersound (only earlier it was called the 1st cosmic speed, 27 declared M - just like it is).
      Warheads and decoys fall with hypersonic sound.

      What is hypersound is the ability to fly at a speed of at least Mach 5 in the atmosphere.
      All the previous missiles developed this speed and higher outside the atmosphere (otherwise they will burn up), and only at the final stage the trajectories fall vertically on the target, entering the atmosphere for a short time. What's wrong with such a rocket trajectory? Yes, because it can be calculated in advance, which increases the chances of shooting down. And the trajectory of a hypersonic missile cannot be calculated in advance, and it is dangerous.
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 5 May 2021 15: 04
        +1
        "What is hypersound is the ability to fly at a speed of at least Mach 5 in the atmosphere"
        it is as if yes, it is common knowledge. Thank you.

        Here are a number of ZRs flying "at a speed of at least Mach 5 in the atmosphere." No hypersound hype.

        Here Iskander, 2006, speed over 2000m / S (6M), maneuvers, altitude - over 100 km can (space) - but there was no hype about hypersonicity and there is no.
        But "Dagger", the same Iskander, 2017. already "hypersonic" - but only at the height.

        How would you find the difference (except, of course, the features of the modification for the aircraft, etc.)
        1. lucul
          lucul 5 May 2021 15: 09
          0
          Here are a number of ZRs flying "at a speed of at least Mach 5 in the atmosphere." No hypersound hype.

          Russian hypersonic missiles can fly in the atmosphere at an altitude of 18 km. All other high-speed rockets overcome the atmosphere along the shortest path.
          But I see that this is too difficult to understand - you need to chew everything.
          1. Maks1995
            Maks1995 5 May 2021 15: 30
            -1
            Since you are trying to get nasty, it means that you cannot explain it more sensibly.
            And what you say, and so everyone knows.
            1. lucul
              lucul 5 May 2021 17: 18
              +1

              And what you say, and so everyone knows.

              It is known, yes, but not everyone can understand.
  • Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 5 May 2021 15: 14
    0
    I read the reviews and realized that the American organization UCS ("Union of Interested Scientists") is illiterate mediocrity, well, probably still poorly studied at school, well, poor students, what to take from them. But our commentators are almost all clever - they understand hypersonic and rocket technologies, they take pride in such people, and they don't even consider themselves scientists, but they know what and how.
    1. lucul
      lucul 5 May 2021 17: 19
      -2
      I read the reviews and realized that the American organization UCS ("Union of Interested Scientists") is illiterate mediocrity, well, probably they still studied poorly at school

      Well, what mediocrity? There are ordinary Izzy and Abram ...
      1. ironic
        ironic 6 May 2021 14: 55
        -1
        As usual, low-error anti-Semitism with an eye to the inevitable future Nazism.
  • Fedorov Ivan
    Fedorov Ivan 5 May 2021 15: 33
    +1
    ... in publications in individual magazines, it is said that hypersonic weapons are more of a "hype".

    In theory, this kind of propaganda in the enemy media is an ideal means for preparing for the massive use of weapons of mass destruction on its territory, based, among other things, on technologies whose effectiveness assessment has been specially adjusted up or down.
    The principle is simple - to publish on enemy territory in the enemy's native language more articles about "inefficiency" or, conversely, about the "absolute efficiency" of our technologies, and on our own - to steadily increase the number of combat units and build up combat coordination. On enemy territory, it will look like farce, populism or even outright sabotage - the main thing is to correctly submit everything that cannot be hidden through your own media.
    If the propaganda strategy is built correctly, this will inevitably lead to incorrect assessments on the part of the enemy - our actual successes and achievements in building battle formations will be perceived as mistakes, and our strategic advantages as miscalculations and vulnerabilities.
    If everything works out, then time will begin to work for us and, accordingly, against the enemy's defense. As a result, a situation will inevitably come when one single command "Start" with a very high probability will lead to the fact that the existence of an entire state, no matter how high-tech it may be, will be forever erased from history by one massive and, at the same time, absolutely unexpected blow ...
  • xorek
    xorek 5 May 2021 16: 52
    -1
    In the West, they cannot decide in any way in their attitude to hypersonic weapons.

    They don't have that, so they think what it threatens them Want to check gentlemen, well, risk your health
  • lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 5 May 2021 17: 51
    -1
    I’ll say more simply, the kinetic energy from such a projectile is thousands of times greater than TNT, and if you can’t shoot down the ruminants of the ships !!!
    ps there it is impossible to understand what it was.
    all their auks are resting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    All of their NATO is built on 6 Aukas, where will they be when there are zero carriers?
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 5 May 2021 19: 49
    0
    Typically American approach - we will speak disparagingly about what we do not have. But when the USA gets hold of this, the speech will be strictly opposite)
  • Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich 5 May 2021 21: 08
    0
    huh ... a hypersound with a nuclear warhead?
  • faterdom
    faterdom 5 May 2021 22: 06
    0
    That's right! Stop wasting American taxpayers' money on hypersonic chimeras!
    We must give all the money to Floyd's family, and what remains - to Hunter Biden! Because they were unlawfully offended during the tyranny of Trump - Putin's spook!
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 14: 52
    +1
    Well, in general, these are common thoughts that have already been expressed at VO by adequate people. What's wrong? It's like that. Niche weapon for a specific range of tasks.
  • Evgeny I.
    Evgeny I. 6 May 2021 15: 58
    0
    Like a fagot, the penguin is a proud bird. Until you kick, it won't fly. But they are asking to check Putin's cartoons in action, oh, they are asking.
  • Egor53
    Egor53 7 May 2021 01: 46
    0
    UCS ("Union of Interested Scientists") are those "scientists" who can be interested (in money) to make any kind of application.
    Just recently, such British scientists EXPERIMENTALLY proved that meeting with a black cat leads to trouble ... ... Experiments were carried out on laboratory mice.
    I know what I am talking about, I am a British scientist myself, since I have both an advanced degree and a British passport.
    In order not to mislead anyone - I am Russian and a citizen of the Russian Federation.
  • limaps2014
    limaps2014 18 May 2021 11: 42
    0
    This piece is most likely a recommendation on where to invest. And from this point of view, it is correct. Since they themselves have a complete collapse with this type of weapon, and Russia will not be the first to use it, it is possible to focus on other promising types of weapons.