Military Review

The United States proposed to create barges with missile units on board

117

Sea Hunter, an American unmanned warship


Three words: the barge-robot-missile, and the US Navy will have the best option to increase its missile power at a minimum cost. Forbes author David Ax is convinced of this. He believes that instead of building an expensive manned ship that could cost the federal budget about a billion dollars, a cheap unmanned ship could be developed that would be nothing more than a floating platform to house missile blocks.

The missile barges would be able to enter the war zone with the help of auxiliary vessels that would tow them. Once out to sea, they would be connected to a network of manned and unmanned ships currently being developed by the naval forces. At the same time, as the author writes, a variant of “rocket barges” with the function of their own motion at low speeds - for maneuvering, can be considered.

Targets for missile strikes will be determined from other ships, which will have operators controlling the fire. Dozens of rockets can be fired at the push of a button. And this will not require those colossal sums that would have to be spent on the construction of missile ships and on their manning with crews. If such a barge had been hit by the enemy, then it would have been possible to avoid the human casualties inevitable in the event of a strike on a ship with a crew.

As David Ax writes, the proposed concept of the "rocket barge" is not such a new idea: back in the 1990s, the US Navy developed a plan for an "arsenal ship", which, although it was supposed to be manned, was essentially perform the same functions as a robotic missile barge, namely to carry hundreds of missiles at a minimal cost.

However, in the 1990s, such a ship never left the drawings of American designers. But more than a decade later, their projects have inspired a new initiative - the modernization of four old ballistic missile submarines into cruise missile carriers.


Submarine USS Michigan. Photo: Wikipedia / US Navy photo by Brian Nokell

At present, the most armed ships of the US Navy are precisely submarines with cruise missiles, each of which is capable of carrying XNUMX Tomahawk missiles.

But there is one serious problem - all four submarines with cruise missiles are about 40 years old. They are able to withstand only a certain number of dives, and nuclear reactors used on submarines are not eternal. The US Navy expects to decommission all submarines of this type between 2026 and 2028.

The consequence of the "retirement" of missile submarines, together with the parallel decommissioning of 22 obsolete ships, would reduce by one-fifth the capabilities of the American fleet on the placement of missile blocks. Currently, about 300 US Navy ships have a combined total of approximately 10 missile assemblies. This is much more than the fleet of any other country. So, the Chinese Navy has only 000 blocks, that is, three times less. However, by 3300, the missile power of the American fleet may be reduced to 2030 blocks, and the power of the Chinese fleet will only grow, given the ambitious plans of Chinese President Xi Jinping.


Sea Hunter, unmanned ship

David Ax writes that the way out of this situation could be the construction of new destroyers, frigates and submarines. However, the construction of just one destroyer costs about $ 2 billion, and another $ 80 million a year requires its operation. The creation of new missile units, meanwhile, does not at all imply the need to build new destroyers, says another military expert, Eric Wertheim.

The solution to the problem lies in the development of unmanned missile ships, which is what the US Navy is doing now. Two projects are currently under development. The first is a "medium unmanned surface ship" which can be 150 feet (about 46 m) long, the second is a "large unmanned surface ship" twice as long.

But even these ships, according to the Western author, can be too expensive and difficult to quickly install missile units. Therefore, a much more correct solution would be to build simple vessels such as barges to accommodate missile units on them. These rocket barges can be disposable, but carry many missiles. Their appearance in the US Navy would definitely increase the firepower of the US Navy and its combat capabilities.
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  1. APASUS
    APASUS 4 May 2021 10: 34
    +11
    We have already proposed this to Club-K. The Americans, as always, comprehended the idea and offered their own vision of the system.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 4 May 2021 10: 40
      +10
      So have our idea been implemented or is everything left in the project?
      1. Shurik70
        Shurik70 4 May 2021 11: 22
        0
        Instead of "robot" put a commercial container ship, and you will get the Russian system of an adequate response.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 4 May 2021 11: 57
          +3
          This is understandable, they have shown it more than once ...
          The question is, is it implemented or postponed until better / worse times?
          However, this is a secret !!! soldier
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 4 May 2021 16: 21
            +7
            One of the most important characteristics of a rocket ship is the ability to use weapons in rough seas of (?) Points.
            Therefore, they have Berks, with their ability to do this up to 7 points inclusive (they are simply the best in this indicator). Therefore, the Premier League.
            RTOs are effective only in our river-sea conditions.
            The states, on their shores, do not need such RTOs for nothing. hi
            To have a flock of RTOs near foreign shores - so who will guard them?
            1. ironic
              ironic 6 May 2021 01: 03
              0
              Sumvolt is even better in this indicator, but it turned out to be expensive even for the States.
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 6 May 2021 09: 16
                0
                Sumvolt is even better in this indicator, but it turned out to be expensive even for the States.

                That "this is" was it expensive?
                An unfinished railgun for which the series was being built?
                More expensive, due to the reduction of the series, the shells for the guns?
                Not developed, due to the reduction of the series, missiles for the increased PU Mk-57?
                Or truncated, due to attempts to save at least something, the functionality of the radar?
                With stealth and constructive PTZ everything is in order there.
                By the way, Zamvolt was developed in the same application concept with littoral ships.
                Apparently, plans to contain China were being developed at that time.
                If you meant the high cost of containing China, then I'm ready to agree. This is an expensive pleasure. bully
                1. ironic
                  ironic 6 May 2021 11: 40
                  +1
                  The railgun was completed, but it turned out that for the money that was available for this project, it was possible to get a lower rate of fire than was required and more wear on the barrels than was required. I agree with the shells. Not exactly missiles, but rather the entire development cycle of new-generation tactical missiles in the United States has been delayed. They simply did not install one radar, so far they refused the idea of ​​using the CM-3 from it, but it is possible to optionally return such functionality.
                  Yes Sumvolt was originally meant as a support ship for littorals and a violator of coastal and quay communications. As well as the coordinator of local hostilities.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 6 May 2021 12: 40
                    0
                    The railgun was completed, but it turned out that for the money that was available for this project, it was possible to get a lower rate of fire than was required and more wear on the barrels than was required.

                    Now it called completed ???

                    I agree with the shells.

                    Well, fine.

                    Not exactly missiles, but rather the entire development cycle of new-generation tactical missiles in the United States has been delayed.

                    I showed you the reason. 3 media is not 32.
                    And the Mk-57 was not installed on any other ships.
                    This means that new missiles are not needed for them either. Absolutely.

                    One radar was simply not installed

                    This "just" killed all perspectives of the ship.

                    it is possible to optionally return this functionality.

                    Yes, yes, yes ... Are you well aware of the rules of military procurement in the States? Nobody will ask for a dime more for Zamwalt. Although theoretically anything is possible ... bully

                    Yes Sumvolt was originally meant as a support ship for littorals and a violator of coastal and quay communications. As well as the coordinator of local hostilities.

                    Without a second radar, it will not really solve any of these tasks. IMHO.
                    1. ironic
                      ironic 6 May 2021 13: 11
                      0
                      Yes, but they did not take into service. The efficiency did not satisfy the receivers. What else is it called? He did not rush in, he gave the required energy to the projectiles. Couldn't reach rate of fire in 10 rounds. It was considered too costly to change barrels at the same frequency. Those. the project was completed with the understanding that for X money will not receive U TTX. It’s a failure, but it’s not a project thrown in the middle.

                      The reason for the missiles you indicated is not entirely correct in my opinion, I have explained to you my point of view.

                      The 57th installation was created not only for greater capacity, but most importantly as a near-board, external installation that protects the ship from an explosion of ammunition when it is destroyed by enemy fire.

                      Why this killed the prospects of the ship is not clear from the word at all. I hope you know the purpose of SM-3?

                      Military procurement rules are military procurement rules. But the States needed to allocate money to change the project for the 3rd Seawolf and allocated both money and time.

                      This is where it comes from. Which weapon, besides the CM-3, cannot be successfully used without it?
                      1. Alex777
                        Alex777 6 May 2021 14: 57
                        0
                        Now it's called finished ???
                        Yes, but they did not take into service. The efficiency did not satisfy the receivers. What else is it called?

                        Failure is called. Epic fail. yes
                        If there was just a separate project, this is one thing.
                        But the development that was at the heart of Zamwolt's concept failed.
                        And the failure of this particular development led to the abandonment of the construction of the DDG-1000 series. bully
                        Otherwise, Zamwalt is quite good for himself.
                        But no one needs a railgun.
                        Even 57 mm guns were not made for him. wink
                      2. ironic
                        ironic 6 May 2021 20: 34
                        0
                        Failure - agree, epic fail - disagree.
                        No, I didn't. The railgun was supposed only for the third and instead of one of the guns, i.e. into trial operation. This was not the stumbling block, but the price of even the serial Zumvolt. The same thing happened with Seewulf, although there were no failures with weapons development.
                        57-mm cannons were also cut off from the requirements for reduction in cost, since they did not go into a large series. They put them on littoral areas, but there is a large series.
                      3. Alex777
                        Alex777 6 May 2021 21: 03
                        0
                        This was not the stumbling block, but the price of even the serial Zumvolt. The same thing happened with Seawulf, although there were no failures with weapons development.

                        lol
  2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 May 2021 12: 08
    +6
    Quote: rocket757
    So have our idea been implemented or is everything left in the project?

    Not implemented, and there are big doubts that there was such a project. There was a "caliber" in a container version (it was not purchased by the RF Ministry of Defense), but the idea of ​​installing such missiles on a dry cargo ship is the work of Internet strategists. There is no information that such an installation was ever planned in our country. And the container installation itself could be created for the former fashionable "modular" direction of warships
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 4 May 2021 12: 32
      0
      So, not so .... the idea is voiced and, if necessary, can be implemented.
      Those. there is also a benefit from cartoons, a lot of people, responsible persons, looked and, as they say, reeled on a mustache.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 May 2021 12: 50
        +1
        Quote: rocket757
        So, not so .... the idea is voiced and, if necessary, can be implemented.

        And who voiced it? :)))
        Quote: rocket757
        Those. there is also a benefit from cartoons, a lot of people, responsible persons, looked and, as they say, reeled on a mustache.

        Victor, I don’t understand at all what you just wrote about.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 4 May 2021 13: 07
          +3
          How well. About the Club complex, they even showed on TV ... a cartoon, but they talked about it, more than once or twice. They mentioned the option of transportation / basing on dry cargo ships, this is in addition to the possibility of modular application on warships of a suitable displacement.
          It is clear that conversations in general and almost nothing, in particular, but, since conversations are going on, it means that anyone needs it.
          If there is no order from the MO, this does not mean that at some point they will not decide that this is also necessary.
          I don’t know, I just don’t give up, because this will never happen ...
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 May 2021 13: 32
            +2
            Quote: rocket757
            How well. About the Club complex, they even showed on TV ... a cartoon, but they talked about it, more than once or twice.

            The "caliber" container complex was presented for the first time at IMDS-2011, moreover - in iron. Cartoons - yes, there were, but later
            Quote: rocket757
            They mentioned the option of transportation / basing on dry cargo ships, this is in addition to the possibility of modular application on warships of a suitable displacement.

            So I'm asking you - who mentioned? :))) In fact, the developers announced the possibility of using it from any ships and vessels, but no official of the RF Ministry of Defense spoke about plans to equip dry cargo ships.
            Quote: rocket757
            If there is no order from the MO, this does not mean that at some point they will not decide that this is also necessary.

            Someday, maybe, they will decide, and our Ministry of Defense did not such miracles, but such projects were not announced and calibers were not purchased for them
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 4 May 2021 22: 21
              -2
              the Ministry of Defense generally has difficulties with the adoption of any strategies for the development of the army ... and taking into account that there is a rocket launcher on the tractor, just put a rocket launcher ... they have nausea and migraine headaches
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 4 May 2021 12: 35
      0
      Except as an experimental laboratory ...
      But how boring and uninteresting it will be to drown these platforms with drones - they are so clearly visible from above, and they cannot be high-speed by definition - like an opponent - a frigate with a pair of helicopters and a regiment of drones. Combat radius - 1,5 Kmil. Together with AWACS prices will not be such a defensive system.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 May 2021 12: 52
        +3
        Quote: hydrox
        But how boring and uninteresting it will be to drown these platforms with drones - they are so clearly visible from above, and they cannot be high-speed by definition - like an opponent - a frigate with a pair of helicopters and a regiment of drones.

        There will be no such thing. Such barges will never operate independently, only under cover or as part of the AUS. This is, in fact, just an arsenal of active fleet formations, and nothing more.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 5 May 2021 18: 43
          -2
          Poor seaworthiness and low speed are an obstacle to the introduction of such platforms as squadron units ...
          And poor mobility also means poor maneuverability of the AUG.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 May 2021 06: 15
            -1
            Quote: hydrox
            Poor seaworthiness and low speed are an obstacle to the introduction of such platforms as squadron units ...

            These are not squadron units, but a means of enhancing the AUS operating on foreign shores. That is, the AUS "works" along the shore in the manner and likeness of "Storm in a Glass", for example, and such a barge is "dragged" to it
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 6 May 2021 19: 39
              0
              Good: come on, adjust the US AUS to any sea coast of Russia - we will look at its effectiveness and combat capability ... laughing
              At the same time, I ask you to bring the composition of the guard squad of such barges on the route to the Russian coast. laughing
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 May 2021 21: 02
                +1
                Quote: hydrox
                Good: go ahead, adjust the US AUS to any sea coast of Russia - let's look at its effectiveness and combat capability ..

                You won't watch, that's why you are writing this. Those who watched know that today we do not have the means, not like AUS - a single AUG to resist
                Quote: hydrox
                At the same time, I ask you to bring the composition of the guard squad of such barges on the route to the Russian coast.

                Null. It is not needed - there is no threat to the barges
  • Artemion3
    Artemion3 4 May 2021 10: 48
    +3
    Well, the club is still mounted on a manned barge, it's more like an unmanned ship
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 4 May 2021 12: 00
      0
      Basically, it looks like. And the options for transportation / basing, at choice, at the request of the customer.
    2. Reiter
      Reiter 4 May 2021 13: 04
      -1
      In the commercial fleet, the prospects for the near future are precisely in the commissioning of unmanned suzogruzov. They are already testing everything. So containers on such barges could be quite like an unmanned version very soon.
  • knn54
    knn54 4 May 2021 10: 38
    +1
    In fact, the "mosquito fleet".
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 4 May 2021 10: 51
      -5
      In fact, the "mosquito fleet".
      A crewless fleet!?, Plus its autonomy is different, if you also stick modern sailing equipment and submersible generators on such a self-propelled barge, you can get ocean range on the go, but there is no crew - hmm, a convenient idea, and it is economically expedient to exclude the presence of live ballast, which still needs to be fed and placed on the ship ...
      1. Shurik70
        Shurik70 4 May 2021 11: 23
        +3
        Quote: Intruder
        eliminate the presence of live ballast

        Hi Skynet!
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 4 May 2021 11: 40
          -2
          Hi Skynet!
          [Telecommunication protocols are outdated .. system update required! Access denied ...] and other "funny" things, with these rocket barges, can be after several months of autonomy even at their native shores, and then a failure of the PU security system, with a full rocket salvo across a peaceful city and in everything, as now - Russian / Chinese / Iranian and other hackers are to blame ... wink
      2. Murmur 55
        Murmur 55 4 May 2021 11: 40
        +1
        And how to manage if the satellite system suddenly "dies", now all long-range unmanned systems are kept on it?
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 4 May 2021 12: 01
          -2
          And how to manage if the satellite system suddenly "dies", now all long-range unmanned systems are kept on it?
          According to ideas ... they should be offline (without communication with the outside world, with the loss of remote control), return to their base or self-destruction if it is impossible to move, etc.
          1. Murmur 55
            Murmur 55 4 May 2021 12: 59
            +1
            And how will you position yourself in space ??? What landmarks will be ???
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 4 May 2021 14: 24
              -1
              Well .., for now - INS, gyro and magnetic compasses, plus radio navigation (radio bearing) and radar have not been canceled for the sea !?
            2. Maikcg
              Maikcg 4 May 2021 21: 56
              0
              To look at the sun and the stars, if the ancestors have mastered the sextant, then the piece of iron can do the same. Yes, not gps, but enough to crawl to the base.
      3. Reiter
        Reiter 4 May 2021 13: 07
        +1
        Yeah, and there will be a temptation for any pirates and terrorists to seize such an unmanned barge and then blackmail the whole world, or just jump on whoever they want.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 4 May 2021 14: 34
          -2
          Yeah, and there will be a temptation for any pirates and terrorists to seize such an unmanned barge and then blackmail the whole world, or just jump on whoever they want.
          So directly and will be captured ??? And who will let them into the lower deck, through a locked hatch by the internal access system ??? Yes, and how to manage, then how, not everyone has the knowledge and experience, especially those very "guests": from the naked pirates with rusty AK and terrorists of all stripes (you will have to take the tug, then the barge, and then self-destruction will help, along with the evil Aboriginal people on deck to the world will provide a different road, effectively provide ...), plus equipment / appropriate software to control such systems from the deck of a captured missile barge and even more control of the launcher and provide access / gain the ability to work .., and this is already it costs money for the capture team in a green crispy uniform, and the prices there are with such zeros that these pirates are unlikely to have .. bully , a big fiction for the layman ..., Hollywood has released a new film, as the title, honestly ... maybe you overlooked the latest new items ...?
          1. Reiter
            Reiter 5 May 2021 11: 10
            +1
            Well, the ram and then the Twin Towers were also just a Hollywood script for a while. In addition, not necessarily pirates with fat Kalash, sabotage groups of states. Recently, the Chinese have taken an underwater vehicle from America, Iran has planted drones. So here, if you wish, you can find an option. And self-destruction, well, yes, it's also not bad, albeit a barge, but if there are hundreds of other missiles, then the missiles themselves cost a lot of money, it's already good, Iran can use suicide bombers by jizadists to neutralize such a US fleet, even if it is destroyed by the Iranians for health.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 5 May 2021 12: 46
              -1
              And self-destruction, well, yes, it's also not bad, albeit a barge, but if there are hundreds of other missiles, then the missiles themselves cost a lot of money, it's already good, Iran can use suicide bombers by jizadists to neutralize such a US fleet, even if it is destroyed by the Iranians for health.
              Well, here you need to calculate how much the suicide bomber grows up to the required age ... 12-15 years, minimum, and how many cheap rocket barges can be set up during this time, plus not every teenager will become a suicide bomber, there are also great risks if they are massively to throw at such complexes? And why the Iranians are not so sorry - they have a genome, or blood of a different color, or their mothers cry differently! ??? belay
              1. Reiter
                Reiter 5 May 2021 19: 00
                +1
                So I don’t feel sorry for this one, this is their religion, and their state is religious now. In addition, they do not have to send their citizens there, there are enough other tribes allied with them, which are capable of a lot for the sake of jihad.
                1. Intruder
                  Intruder 5 May 2021 20: 01
                  -1
                  and they have a religious state now. In addition, they do not have to send their citizens there, there are enough other tribes allied with them, which are capable of a lot for the sake of jihad.
                  And what is wrong with their religion, what is worse than others and among other peoples, or is God there, such from another Universe !? Or holy books, protecting perverts and gay marriage, and other dark things ...?
                  Maybe it's not about the allied tribes and their religion to the heap, but simply in the elementary economic conditions of the life of the simple population, stupidly in the number of grandmothers per capita and total poverty, in those points of land ...?
                  1. Reiter
                    Reiter 6 May 2021 10: 45
                    +2
                    Did I write something about something wrong with their religion? People for the Faith in different religions of the world sacrificed themselves and in Islam now it is, it is just a fact.
                    1. Intruder
                      Intruder 6 May 2021 10: 57
                      -1
                      Did I write something about something wrong with their religion? People for the Faith in different religions of the world sacrificed themselves and in Islam now it is, it is just a fact.
                      You wrote about:
                      and they have a religious state now.
                      that is, if we continue, it is about jihad, which is condemned in the Koran, by the way (especially in terms of violence, against gentiles - Christians and Jews ...), I can even find suras for sure, point by line, if there are jihadists in an Islamic state , then with religion they are not as smooth as it might seem, and if they are still a religious state, not a secular state ... like others !? Although this is a philosophical absurdity, we have an actual merger with state structures and admiration for religious structures for centuries in the very mass consciousness of peoples, all over the world!
                      1. Reiter
                        Reiter 6 May 2021 13: 59
                        +2
                        They can use third-party jihadists, which hinders them. Yes, not necessarily jihadists, you rightly noted, the point is poverty, and some son from the fighting under the Syrian or Iraqi or some other adjacent territories will want to provide for his family with many children and can volunteer for such a thing, again get an afterlife with the gurias.
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 4 May 2021 10: 53
      -3
      The US "mosquito fleet" may have limited use. They have main goals and objectives in the oceanic zone. We need normal Frigates and Destroyers there.

      The Turks are building an unmanned mosquito fleet. There are plans to purchase several hundred such ships / boats. In various modifications. This is dangerous for the Black and Mediterranean Seas.

      Launched and tested the ULAQ strike boat

      The PLO version was presented.


      Features:
      Type: Rigid boat
      Length: 11 m
      Speed: 65 km / h
      Range: 400 km
      Capacity: 2000 kg
      Armament:
      4x Roketsan Cirit,
      2x L-UMTAS
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 4 May 2021 11: 46
        -1
        Launched and tested the ULAQ strike boat

        In the second video, you show a cable reel in the stern, he also carries the GAK on board or what is there, more precisely for what and what equipment !? Just wondering, the cross-section of the cable line, something very serious ... wink
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 4 May 2021 12: 05
          -2
          So I understand sonar, there are subtitles in English. I don’t know more than what is written there))
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 4 May 2021 12: 51
            -1
            So I understand sonar, there are subtitles in English

            Thank you colleague, my subtitles were not displayed on this browser, hmm ... sonar, and this is already for a drummer of such a displacement, significantly expands his combat capabilities in the future (they swung at PLO in a small class ???) ... everything is more interesting, there the Ottomans go in terms of sea weapons - uninhabited and unmanned platforms ...
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 4 May 2021 13: 02
              -2
              Quote: Intruder
              at PLO swung in a small class?

              Yes, so I wrote about it. Ideal for puddles around Turkey. There will be versions with radar, sonars, RTR, electronic warfare, decoys, communication systems, etc.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 4 May 2021 10: 39
    +2
    The United States proposed to create barges with missile units on board
    ... Well, this is not feng shui! Deshovka, some sort, it turns out ...
    1. NIKN
      NIKN 4 May 2021 11: 23
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Well, this is not feng shui! Deshovka, somehow, it turns out ...

      Really. Anyway, there must be a control center with a clear crew (which can be destroyed, which is tantamount to the incapacitation of the entire strike potential). Further, what is the seaworthiness of a barge without an engine, who will tow it? Here the fleet serving this barge is not much cheaper than traditional solutions. And in the end, if we are fighting for cheapness, then why cut? This is definitely not American Feng Shui. winked smile
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 4 May 2021 12: 04
        +2
        Yankees want to spend money on complete automation of control ... you can do that.
        Towing is their option .... until you try it, it is difficult to compare ... although a barge is not a sea option, as a rule. Their deeds, their ideas.
        1. NIKN
          NIKN 4 May 2021 12: 20
          +3
          Quote: rocket757
          Yankees want to spend money on complete automation of control ... you can do that.

          Well, from some point you need to manage, enter goals, etc., a lot of things won't work in the machine. There must be a command post in this flotilla. This requires a whole grouping of means to provide air defense, anti-aircraft defense, etc. One protection from electronic warfare equipment to ensure communication with drones is worth something. hi
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 4 May 2021 12: 35
            +1
            Quote: NIKNN
            There must be a command post in this flotilla.

            Prospective variant of Independence (LCS-2). Large internal volumes and take-off deck, low visibility, modular design. Such a mini UDC, but more mobile and secretive. A sufficient number of UAVs and unmanned over / submarines, control systems and operators can be accommodated. They can safely catch out ones that are out of order.
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 4 May 2021 12: 48
            +2
            They want to make a "barge version" according to Feng Shui .... and a flag in their hands.
            There are probably no purely technical problems that cannot be solved, more organizational and costs, perhaps, will be higher .... but this still needs to be looked at, counted. I don’t presume to judge, not an accountant by profession.
          3. Reiter
            Reiter 4 May 2021 13: 09
            +1
            In addition, such a barge can easily be captured by a diversionary group of some kind of combat swimmers. So just the exchange is not enough here, you will need to equip it with a bunch of systems for at least some survivability and combat stability.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 5 May 2021 12: 49
              -1
              In addition, it is easy to capture such a barge with a sabotage group of some kind of combat swimmers.
              Capture on the move, or against the wall !? Do not feel sorry for the swimmers, for the sake of a piece of metal ... to spend such personnel ...? winked
              1. Reiter
                Reiter 5 May 2021 19: 05
                0
                Lovingly, a video was published here as the British Marine Corps seized the ship on backpack individual rocket propellers. They just flew in and sat on the deck. Their job is to take risks and capture something. But this does not mean that the capture is done bluntly in the forehead. Before that, technologies for neutralizing and deceiving security systems are being worked out. Specialists know all this. In addition, you can already send robots-avatars there, if it is very risky.
                1. Intruder
                  Intruder 5 May 2021 20: 08
                  0
                  how the British Marine Corps hijacked the ship in backpack individual rocket propellers. Just flew in and sat on deck
                  Like, this is something:
                  If then, but for now it's more likely - the first advertising pancake with butter laughing As the founder of the company himself, old Richard, says, he is still such a "magician - entertainer", before we closely communicated with him on a number of technical works, in the framework of the creation of these types of flying systems! wink
                  1. Reiter
                    Reiter 6 May 2021 10: 47
                    0
                    Yes, he meant it. Wow, what have you come to? Do you think the topic has no prospects?
                    1. Intruder
                      Intruder 6 May 2021 11: 25
                      0
                      Wow, what have you come to? Do you think the topic has no prospects?
                      Well, I can, so to speak yesterday, by the way, I talked about one topic personally with Richard, he says that for now, the OVT system on the sleeve modules of the turbojet engine, in the scheme: 2x2 + 1, is very good for training in his network of piloting schools created under his organization (small insider , now I give it publicly laughing ), and for the very advertising of the movement on light micro-flying by this, all over the world, although I am his opponent here, I believe that this is,
                      Firstly:
                      - it is not practical even in flight, both hands are busy and the shoulder girdle after 30 minutes of flight, experiences critical loads of the shoulder and elbow joints / muscles and tendons, and talk about the subsequent use of the pilot's hands - a small arms weapon when seizing a ship or building by such a shooter, no longer necessary;
                      Secondly:
                      - the system is basic for him, very fat, lifting-sustainer engine in the spinal module and 4 with a deflected thrust vector - with the help of hands, they eat - up to 20 liters of kerosene (with the maximum weight equipped on the pilot already - up to 50 kg., more precisely I cannot say - for a commercial secret, sorry), so it only lasts for 20-25 minutes of a guaranteed flight ... up to a speed of 90-100 km / h, without maneuvers and hovering at an altitude ... Plus, if you watch his videos well, there where he sits down or takes off in the wind and on the water, you can see the complexity of the implementation of OVT, for a pilot, even with his many years of experience, a beginner will not be able to do it as steadily as he does for a year, although these are greenhouse conditions, and if a combat the situation is difficult, plus a vertical target - the pilot himself, excellent growth rate ???
                      the problem of stability at a high flight speed has not yet been solved, he several times last year and earlier, he used a membrane as a stabilizer between the lower limbs, from a suit on sky freestyle, it is on youtube! So it has not yet been decided, and this is also ...
                      I myself, a supporter of small-area aeroelastic surfaces made of reinforced polymer with composite inserts in the side projection of the spinal module with a different propeller, may ... still need to be addressed with avionics, and this is already a question of the safety of the pilot and inhabitants on the ground, if he flies in in a car or an office building ... and Richard understands this very accurately and seriously thinks ... a person can not always cope with control on the ground at 100 km / h, but here in three-dimensional space ... Maybe I will write an article here about it all, with a view from the backend (a), if I have time and desire from dear readers on VO, on this topic !?
                      1. Reiter
                        Reiter 6 May 2021 14: 11
                        +1
                        Very interesting, thanks! But, at least, your friend has an entertainment market even with such control, now he needs to lower the price for such an aero suit. And, probably, the question is with flight permits and management rights?
                      2. Intruder
                        Intruder 6 May 2021 14: 57
                        0
                        And, probably, the question is with flight permits and management rights?
                        There is also such, if you have a range over: 60 mil. for California, I don’t know about other states, I already need a private pilot’s license ...
                        If you are interested in this topic, here are links to competitors:
                        https://jetpackaviation.com (это более зрелый продукт, на мой взгляд)
                        https://www.zapata.com (сплошная развлекуха, но по теме данной laughing )
                        and his website: https://gravity.co
                      3. Intruder
                        Intruder 6 May 2021 14: 59
                        0
                        Very interesting, thanks!
                        Thank you drinks , not every day are interested in such technologies ... and people have been working on this for years! Therefore, if there is a desire - you can write in a personal!
                      4. Reiter
                        Reiter 6 May 2021 19: 14
                        +2
                        drinks Thanks for the offer, I'll take a look. Yes, this is just an interest as a techie and not only to everything new and, I would say, even technically beautiful, I’m unlikely to dig deeply, I’m not going to dig deeply for all the time, but it’s interesting to know the horizons of technology development, not even my profile. And so there would be money, it would be possible to invest in something similar
  • Murmur 55
    Murmur 55 4 May 2021 11: 43
    +1
    hi If only we had such an offer, it would have started right away, everything would have disappeared, they loved everything, there was no one to serve, they would have remembered the oligarchs' yachts.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 4 May 2021 12: 06
      0
      There would be empty moaning ... although such complexes are a high degree of automation !!! What could be wrong?
      1. Murmur 55
        Murmur 55 4 May 2021 13: 03
        0
        hi Well, we have enough people who think that since we do not build BIG ships of the ocean zone, then we have nothing to talk about.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 5 May 2021 12: 52
      -1
      remember about the yachts of the oligarchs.
      Some Russian respected businessmen, even with underwater vehicles, such as walking mini-submarines, can and should also be nationalized and sent to serve the Fatherland !? laughing
  • Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 4 May 2021 10: 39
    -2
    The author, or the translator - the crew on the ship, not the pilots, respectively, the ship without a crew will be unmanned, or uninhabited, if we are talking about an underwater vehicle.
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 4 May 2021 10: 59
      +4
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      on the ship there is a crew, not pilots, respectively, a ship without a crew will be unmanned, or uninhabited, if we are talking about an underwater vehicle.

      This is pure literalism. The term "underwater / surface drone" has been around for a long time. Let's not call him a "surface crewless" ...
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 4 May 2021 16: 26
        -2
        This is not literalism, but illiteracy.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 5 May 2021 12: 55
        -1
        The term "underwater / surface drone" has been around for a long time. Let's not call him "a surface crewman
        Aircraft are piloted by pilots, namely, as part of the crew of an aircraft, and surface ships are driven by crew members, and there are underwater vehicles: inhabited or uninhabited ... categories, so and so ...! laughing
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 4 May 2021 10: 44
    -2
    What missile armament? Harpoons, helpers, RIM-7 still have some sense. Tomahawks, SM-6 makes no sense. In addition to technical issues, you need to take into account the sea waves. The greater the tonnage of the vessel, the greater the excitement possible the use of weapons.

    For the USA, I see two main cases

    For PLO, the Navy ordered the development of a promising medium surface vessel (MUSV, Medium Unmanned Surface Vessel), optionally armed. 40 of them are planned for purchase. Autonomous unmanned submarines are also tested. They plan to deploy a network of unmanned surface and submarine ships in the coming years.

    In a recent exercise, Interaction during active hostilities was practiced. When the drones carried out communications, reconnaissance and command control. In general, it is possible to transfer all active radar equipment, sonars, RTR, electronic warfare, decoys, communication systems, etc. to them.
    Gathering KUG / AUG, the main ships go into radio silence or disguise themselves as civilian ships. A swarm of UAVs, unmanned sub / surface ships are actively working on reconnaissance, detection and control of the enemy forces, mine action. Their work is supervised, for example, by LCS Independence. Accordingly, the main group of ships KUG reveals itself only when striking, but immediately after it hides behind false targets that completely imitate their work.
    1. Genry
      Genry 4 May 2021 12: 11
      -3
      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
      For the USA, I see two main cases

      Minus the word "case". negative
      You cannot say in Russian "in case", "option" ...
      Or memory problems?
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      2. Intruder
        Intruder 5 May 2021 13: 53
        -1
        Minus the word "case". negative
        You cannot say in Russian "in case", "option" ...
        Or memory problems?
        Hmm, a strange phenomenon, but in your life, you always use only Russian words, without these: border, amlet, appetite, gilet, jacket, balloon, banknotes with ATMs and other borrowings from that very Europe, with its values ​​??? laughing ... Maybe I should have just write to you, comrade OgnennyiKotik : two main directions, or segments of applications, just like that, ... and not point to these same cases and with the identification on the sofa, his memory problems!? ... laughing
    2. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 4 May 2021 13: 32
      0
      Complete bullshit. Particularly amused by the disguise as civilian courts. Are you a fan of pirate fiction?
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 4 May 2021 10: 44
    +3
    Even I associate a barge with river navigation, otherwise they muddle something. We can also muddy barges, since there are many rivers.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 4 May 2021 10: 59
      -2
      Even my barge is associated with river shipping
      not true, there are / have been such self-propelled "vessels" in the seas:

      Project 431 Self-propelled sea-going dry-cargo barge with aft MO, cargo crane with a lifting capacity of 5 t; designed for transportation of general and bulk cargo.
      Ltot = 36,0 m; B = 6,9m; H = 3,0m; Tav = 1,87m;
      Empty displacement = 149t, Dpoln = 310t, lifting capacity 150t. Power plant: 1 diesel 300 hp, V = 9 knots, range 500 miles. Crew of 10 people, autonomy - 15 days.
      From 1954 to 1958 commissioned to the Navy - 17 units. Designer: TsKB-51. Project 431 PU Marine self-propelled floating installation for unloading spent and loading a clean chemical lime absorber onto submarines with a single engine (Project 615).
      Lnaib = 36,0 m; B = 6,9m; H = 3,0m; T = 1,95; Dpor = 221,0t, Dpol = 323,7t.
      Carrying capacity - 75t; V = 8,5 knots The rest of the data on Project 431.
      From 1955 to 1958 delivered to the Navy - 5 units. Designer: SPMBM "Malachite" (TsKB-16).


      In 1955, submarines with a single engine operating under water - EDKhPI - joined the Navy. To service these submarines (projects 615 and A615) TsKB-16 on the basis of the self-propelled barge of project 431, a project 431-PU of a self-propelled floating installation was developed for unloading spent and loading a clean chemical lime absorber (KhPI) on submarines of project 615. Total displacement 303 tons, empty - 200 tons, capacity - 75 tons. Has two holds. Under hold No. 2, a superstructure was made, which houses vacuum pumps and other equipment for unloading spent KhPI from the submarine's gas filters. For loading fresh KhPI, a hoist crane with a lifting capacity of 2 tons is provided. Due to the complexity of the installation, in agreement with the Central Design Bureau, the responsible deliverer of the head order was appointed a deputy. Chief Designer Maria Petrovna Rempel. The head unit was launched in June 1955, in September of the same year it passed state tests and on September 30.09.1955, 196, it was accepted into the Navy. In the course of state tests, the actual unloading of the KhPI from the bunkers of the submarine was carried out and then the loading of the clean KhPI. The work was carried out at the berth of the plant No. 1955 ("Sudomekh") in Leningrad on a new submarine that returned from trials. The bunkers of the submarine were freed from the KhPI within an hour, and the personnel previously performed such an operation manually with buckets and bags, dragging the KhPI inside the submarine. Mechanized loading was also quick. From 1958 to 5 XNUMX units of this project were delivered.
  • Vova Serov
    Vova Serov 4 May 2021 10: 57
    -3
    xoposchaj nowost
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 4 May 2021 10: 58
    -1
    On the one hand - right, why is there a crew on board if it is American? It all ends with a collision with another container ship. On the other hand, did they say they were for the American military-industrial complex? They have the word "cheaper" - no one knows, they will glue you instead of Zyama - Robozama, by the way, is again without weapons
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 4 May 2021 11: 08
      +3
      Quote: Cowbra
      It all ends with a collision with another container ship.

      In any case, "dozens of missiles" on one barge are more convenient to sink
  • Pandiurin
    Pandiurin 4 May 2021 11: 35
    +1
    The decision to set up cheap troughs with a lot of rockets may be due to:
    - the desire to quickly build up shock capabilities for the planned confrontation with, for example, China.

    - to place the INF missiles near the borders of Russia

    These things are clearly not suitable for long patrols. For a diesel installation, a diesel operator is needed, a diesel operator needs a cook, they need a full-time doctor, three people are already a team, a captain is required, well, then already a boatswain and sailors, well, the number of people must be multiplied by three to organize the watch.

    Without an attendant, such a pelvis without a crew, just tow it, and already in place it can maneuver a little on its diesel engine.
    1. Rusticolus
      Rusticolus 4 May 2021 12: 16
      +2
      And also, what about the law of the sea без A vessel without a crew, drifting in neutral waters ... The Chines stole the towed station on the move, as if the cable accidentally broke off, and here is such a freebie.
  • Artemion3
    Artemion3 4 May 2021 12: 05
    0
    It's high time for us to develop unmanned tanks, planes, ships and unmanned submarines with our demographics and economy.
  • Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 4 May 2021 12: 14
    0
    Dear, really no one remembers, because this has already been proposed back in the days of the USSR. The Americans had a project of an ocean-going self-propelled barge for 600 Tomohawks, with a side height of about a meter, i.e. with the help of anti-ship missiles it will not sink And from submarine torpedoes, they could provide sufficient protection.
    As far as I remember, then we agreed not to do this, since we could also make dozens of such barges and drag them along the Volga, the Caspian, the Sea of ​​Azov, even on Ladoga and Onega, although there is ice there in winter, but this is not a big problem.
    1. SpbGenn
      SpbGenn 4 May 2021 12: 25
      0
      This is the understanding of the question !!!
  • SpbGenn
    SpbGenn 4 May 2021 12: 23
    0
    This is an obvious decision on the surface. Did it take so many years to come up with it. ?? !! Dyabyly ....
    1. bk0010
      bk0010 4 May 2021 13: 07
      0
      Quote: SpbGenn
      This is an obvious decision.
      This is a bad decision. Rockets are not cheap to throw around like that. This is not even done with household appliances in containers.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 4 May 2021 12: 46
    -1
    The barge is not a solution due to its poor seaworthiness.
    Will sink in a medium storm along with expensive cruise missiles.
    And the project will be closed with a scandal.
    Such a ship must be able to cross the ocean.
    Trimarans like the larger Sea Hunter are more suitable.
    1. URAL72
      URAL72 4 May 2021 13: 31
      +1
      The barge is not a solution due to its poor seaworthiness.
      Will drown in the middle storm "

      I agree. But it is not difficult to make a sealed vessel of the type of semi-submerged vessels. Will not drown. In general, Russia, with its geographic location, should not build such ships in a large series. They are more suitable for local conflicts like the Syrian one. After all, a cheap barge cannot have air defense, or anti-aircraft missile defense, or a modern BIUS. It is expensive and will increase the crew. And he is needed. Otherwise, you will not live long in the northern latitudes. We have a defensive doctrine, and this is a barge for the first strike. It is easier to disperse ground-based launchers - they will be more integral. There will be enough for Europe, China, Japan and ground complexes, the INF Treaty has died and this is not our fault.
    2. Maikcg
      Maikcg 4 May 2021 22: 01
      0
      So not to take a river barge, but a Panamax :) the place is a hell of a lot, tenacious (according to the results of a tanker war).
  • Basarev
    Basarev 4 May 2021 12: 48
    0
    And the next step is a surface strategic missile carrier.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 4 May 2021 22: 15
      0
      As soon as a lot of missiles are loaded onto any large vessel, it becomes a priority target for the enemy.
      And they will try to spank her first. Although people will not die (drone), they are also reluctant to ditch many missiles, each one a million dollars.
      Therefore, a reasonable solution is a ship, like a corvette with improved seaworthiness (floats). And a dozen CDs.
      He pushed him forward, he was not noticed, he shot out - and is no longer needed.
  • vvnab
    vvnab 4 May 2021 13: 25
    0
    And what? The idea is "on the surface" ...
    And this will not require those colossal amounts that would have to be spent ...

    Immediately - no! Who is interested in this at all? )
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 4 May 2021 13: 30
    0
    Such rocket barges can be disposable, but carry many missiles. Their appearance in the US Navy would definitely increase the firepower of the US Navy and its combat capabilities.

    Another chapter from the manual: "How to rake in the heat with someone else's hands" ...
    The purpose of this manual is to learn how to "defeat" the enemy using the armed forces of other countries and weapons of dubious quality.
  • alexey2073
    alexey2073 4 May 2021 14: 09
    0
    Projects of ships-arsenals intended primarily for destruction of ground targets have been going on in the USSR since the beginning of the 70s. Its first incarnation was the thoroughly worked out project of the Nevsky Design Bureau of the Project 1080 missile cruiser. There were other projects as well.
    Competitors ("partners") started similar projects much later.
    As a truncated version of a similar project 1144 aircraft carrier "Orlan".
  • Siegfried
    Siegfried 4 May 2021 14: 15
    -1
    In Russia, the topic of rocket trains could be developed. Container wagons with calibers. For greater stability, you can even attach such wagons to conventional freight trains during a conflict and thus disperse the entire arsenal, making it invulnerable to air damage. One carriage, how many calibers? 30-50? With 20-40 calibers capable of immediate concentration in the western (or eastern) direction, the RF Armed Forces will have a trump card in their sleeve, capable of de-energizing (depriving of electricity) half if not all of Europe. How much electricity infrastructure (generating, transporting and distributing) needs to be destroyed for a month's power outage in a country like Poland, for example?
    If it comes to that, it would be possible to first hit the air defense missile defense system and radars with hypersonic sound, and then launch. It is a zoono to blow up a couple of Poseidons on communication cables in the Atlantic and, in the end, start shooting down all satellites in a row.
    1. Maikcg
      Maikcg 4 May 2021 22: 09
      +1
      I'm sorry but this
      Here in warlike excitement
      Governor Palmerston
      It affects Russia on the map
      Forefinger.
      Only in the opposite direction.
      40000 calibers. Five thousandth volleys. At whose expense is the banquet?
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 4 May 2021 15: 46
    0
    The idea is certainly interesting. It's bold / fresh / dynamic!
    But 46 meters ... Gentlemen ...
    This is hardly an ocean steamer.
    With a group of ocean tugs.
    Which presumably will be pilot.
    The devil only knows what the sea cannot bear with the surf ...
    Pulling an unmanaged barge across half the world in storms ... I don't know ... I don't know ... request
    1. Maikcg
      Maikcg 4 May 2021 22: 04
      0
      The tug will be an aircraft carrier.
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 5 May 2021 19: 39
        0
        Yes, well ...
        And how will this event take place!
        1. Maikcg
          Maikcg 5 May 2021 20: 39
          0
          Throw the end and drag for it. Just like the diesel generator in the Tesla trailer.
          1. Petrol cutter
            Petrol cutter 6 May 2021 17: 45
            0
            I'm afraid this is a utopia.
            How to drag it when there is a storm in the sea / ocean?
            And yon - without a command and immobilized in general?
            This parasite will drill extra holes in the board. Diameter (as Uncle Vova would say, that you can't close a hat).
            If it doesn't fall to the bottom before that, of course.
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 4 May 2021 16: 16
    0
    I will not talk about amers. But the very idea of ​​placing missiles on a dry cargo ship seems ridiculous. The military will never hand over weapons to civilians. It's not even a question. Those. if (theoretically) imagine that missiles appeared on a dry cargo ship, then a military crew should appear on it. Which needs to be maintained, provided with food, etc. Suddenly, a tense situation has arisen and the military needs to swim closer to some shore in order for the missiles to reach their target. And the owner of the dry cargo ship urgently needs containers from China to Finland. Dry cargo ships have owners who count money. This is a dead end situation.
    1. alstr
      alstr 4 May 2021 17: 54
      +1
      Easy and casual. In WWII, how many ships were mobilized?
      What about the use of civilian courts in the Falklands Conflict?

      Yes, and all our ships had a dual purpose.
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 5 May 2021 19: 46
        0
        But the comrade understands!
        Indeed, with us, in general, everything had a dual purpose. Down to bicycles. What to do? It was such a time ...
        Tellingly, perhaps it will also return.
  • filalex79
    filalex79 4 May 2021 16: 58
    0
    Why barges? Let them build rafts. What about? Cheap and from any city ... you can build.
  • ironic
    ironic 4 May 2021 20: 05
    +1
    About the barge some kind of garbage. David seems to have been writing with a drink.
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter 5 May 2021 19: 51
      0
      What the hell are barges?
      This is so much nonsense that even too lazy to waste time on explanations ...
      1. ironic
        ironic 6 May 2021 01: 00
        0
        Or maybe he smoked ... Well, artists, writers ... science fiction writers again .... did not disdain. But SovAr238A is right, why translate, arrange, post this?
  • SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 4 May 2021 20: 43
    0
    Oh my God...

    Well, why pull out as a full-fledged news "from the USA" the words of some American forum dweller?

    We have such "projects" on this site draws each "marshal and general" ...
    Well, the Weasel with Romario Agro with the Operator and others, "flying in their alternative universe" ...

    So what?
    Should their opuses be considered government decisions?
  • KSVK
    KSVK 4 May 2021 21: 05
    +1
    Would purcua not be pa?
    Not as an independent unit, of course.
    The cost of the pelvis will be low relative to the destroyer, but the cost of missiles on board .... And all this splendor can be easily gouged by any patrol boat from 630-ok.
    But in the composition of the Aug / Kug it is quite possible. 2-3 hundreds of launchers can be placed in Burke's displacement.
    The destroyers are engaged in missile defense / air defense and for strikes along the coast a barge.
    Norm. IMHO.
  • Maikcg
    Maikcg 4 May 2021 22: 02
    0
    Aircraft carrier with a trailer.
  • SVD68
    SVD68 5 May 2021 06: 18
    0
    A very sensible proposal. I think the US Navy urgently needs to switch to such barges. And also for small aircraft carriers and submarines with Stirling engines.