The Great Eight vs. Bonnie and Clyde

206
The Great Eight vs. Bonnie and Clyde
The M8 rifle that shot Bonnie and Clyde's car. Waco Museum, Texas

Miscellanea weapon - different fates. It is possible that, had it not been in the hands of the hunters for Bonnie and Clyde M8, they might have gone out of the hands of the law this time too. And maybe they would have lived a little more. And they killed someone else ...
"... for with what judgment you judge, you will be judged."
(Matthew 7: 2)

Weapons and firms. Last time we told VO readers about the life and death of Bonnie and Clyde. Today, in continuation of this topic, there will be a story about what role the weapon created by John Browning played in their fate, namely his "Great Eight" or the M8 automatic rifle.


Here they are, M8 and M81 - of different caliber and release time

And it so happened that long before even the very concept of modern assault rifles appeared, a company from St. Joseph, Missouri, modified the Remington M-8 rifle to help law enforcement officers. They needed a weapon capable of giving them significant superiority over criminals. At that time, newspapers wrote a lot about the use of Thompson submachine guns by gangsters, and law enforcement officials themselves faced this. Therefore, in the 1930s, many government services and departments were simply forced to take up their weapons arsenal in order to have superiority in the event of a shootout with bandits. The Peace Officer Equipment Company also thought about it, which can be translated as "Equipment for peacekeepers", and presented a specially modified model of the M8 rifle, designed specifically for use by law enforcement agencies. While the M8 was not originally intended for military or police service, it turned out to be just perfect for extended gunfights. The "peacemaker" shooter could fire "fifteen crushing aimed shots - plus additional range, penetration and shock" without reloading, the advertisement for this enterprise said. The usual M8 rifle had a five-round magazine.



So, the designers from "Peace ..." put on it a replaceable magazine of three times the capacity, which made it possible to conduct a fairly long fire battle. Of course, the Thompson submachine gun had tremendous firepower, but ... its bullets had low penetrating power, and it was ridiculous to talk about the accuracy of its shooting. So the advantage of these new M8s, in addition to magazine capacity, was that they fired .35 Remington rounds. This cartridge fired a 9,1 mm caliber bullet and weighing 13 g at a speed of 635 m / s per second, which was more than enough to pierce through the steel bodies of the then cars.

If the recoil of this model seemed too strong to someone, then for this case there were rifles chambered for .30 Remington: 7,8 mm caliber. A bullet weighing 10 g had a speed of 647 m / s, which, by the way, also guaranteed it a fairly good armor penetration. Although it was noted that she showed all her good qualities (including a small tendency to ricochets) only at a distance of 150 m. But this was quite enough for the same police when she chased gangster cars.


M8, appearance

The police models M8 and M81 might never have appeared had it not been for the insight of Newton S. Hillard, founder and president of the Hillyard Chemical Company in St. Joseph, Missouri. Moreover, he received about 50 patents before his death. By the way, his company, founded by him in 1907, continues to operate as a family business today. However, Newton was also fond of weapons and, being a very entrepreneurial person, in the 1920s he founded the Peace Officer Equipment Company. The company's main product was the Flash Commander, a car warning light that allowed police officers to identify each other in the dark. He also sold various items to law enforcement such as handcuffs, tear gas grenades, etc.

Back in 1929, Peace Officer Equipment Co. (or POE for short) was busy redesigning the Remington Model 8 so that it could use a replaceable multi-charge magazine. In addition, the firm ditched a factory-made forend in favor of a custom-made one that was longer and wider. A modified M8 model by Peace Officer Equipment Co. proved to be convenient and quickly gained popularity in and around Missouri.

The heart of these new rifles is the store. Whether in .30 Remington or .35 Remington calibers, the magazines were made of steel (including sidewalls, arcuate walls and end plate) and were highly durable. The slightly curved magazine had double guide ribs, one on each side, to keep the cartridges in a central position as they were fed into the chamber. Perhaps one of the most notable features of this store was that each had its own latch, built directly into the store itself. In other versions of removable magazines, such as the Krieger magazine, the latch was located in the trigger plate.


15-cartridge magazine patent

Newton Hillard applied for a patent for this store on October 8, 1934. By May 25, 1937, he was granted US patent No. 2081 235. The magazine capacity was 15 rounds, but it was considered sufficient.

In 1934, the company held a demonstration of its weapons in a pasture in Kirksville, where the chief of the local police, the sheriff, the chief of the city fire department and the banker, whose bank had recently been robbed by armed bandits, were invited. The rifle was represented by NS Hillard himself, the owner and director of the company.

“Look, gentlemen,” he said, “how easy it is to hit the target with our rifle. Take a look at the destructive effect of her bullets on the engine block of this car (a car from a junkyard was specially brought for this demonstration), and you will appreciate its undoubted advantage when chasing a gangster car or a criminal wearing a bulletproof vest. Look, our police rifle is about to hit a half dollar target in the air. "

After that, Hillard asked for half a dollar, but since no one responded to his request, he took out a coin from his own pocket, his assistant threw it into the air, a shot rang out and ... she fell, shot through and through, right at the feet of the excited spectators. The banker, faithful to his profession, was the first to grab this coin and put it in his pocket. After that, the rifles began to sell very well. And especially after Hillard also proved to the head of the local police that they would shoot even at 30 degrees below zero. During his demonstration, he then fired at cans of tomato juice, which exploded into clouds of frozen red dust.


Receiver М81

In recognition of the exceptional firepower of the POE's M8, Remington also wanted a piece of police pie. In 1938, the company began production of a modified rifle, called the "Special Police", intended specifically for sale to law enforcement agencies. The M11 and M31 shotguns were also included in this lineup, and after working with POE, the Model 81 was also included.

The M81 "especially for the police" rifle, like its predecessor, the M8, was excellent for close range work. With a 15-round magazine, the policeman no longer had to worry about slow reloading or lack of firepower over armed Thompson gangsters. The main market for the "special police" were law enforcement agencies.

But at the outbreak of World War II, the Remington Company offered it to arm the National Guard. Such rifles in the hands of trained shooters, in her opinion, could come in handy, for example, in the fight against paratroopers. They could be destroyed with a semi-automatic in a short time of their release, while a soldier with a bolt action rifle would waste precious seconds to reload after each shot ”(Chicago Daily Tribune, May 6, 1940).


Photo "hunters for Bonnie and Clyde"

Interestingly, in addition to 15-round magazines, 10-round and even 5-round magazines of a similar design were also produced. Moreover, it is worth noting that a 10-round magazine cost $ 1 more than a 15-round magazine.

And finally, the most important thing: it was from the police model M8 that Bonnie and Clyde were killed.

In the 1968 documentary film The Other Side of Bonnie and Clyde by Larry Buchanan, Frank Hamer Jr., son of Frank Hamer, one of the participants in the ambush on a country road in Bienville, was interviewed and talked about the weapons his father was then using. It was an M8 rifle with a 15-round magazine. Although Hamer Jr. said in this interview that he was 20, they just weren’t released!


And this is how they shoot from the M8 today

At first he wanted to take the Thompson. And took. But, having fired from him at the car in the junkyard, I realized that his Ford V8 bullets would not pierce. And then he took the 9mm Remington M8. And he succeeded in everything with him! So in stories In the fight against banditry in the United States, this Browning weapon has played a very special role!

PS


The author and the site administration would like to thank Cameron Woodall for the permission to use his materials.
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206 comments
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  1. +15
    28 May 2021 18: 10
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Interesting as always. By the way, after the beginning of publications about Bon and Clyde, I revisited the Hollywood film of 2013.
    1. +6
      28 May 2021 19: 42
      Just think, the bandits were soaked
      Carcano M91 / 38 carbine is cooler, from which presidents are pissed off
      (but seriously, thanks for the interesting article)
      1. +2
        29 May 2021 06: 48
        Which presidents?
        Kennedy or what?
        Curiously, in some photos the front door windows are completely lowered, in others they are half-lowered.
        Probably, at the time of the assassination attempt, the main task was to lift the windows of the front doors.
        No wonder, in the US sector of the Internet, the theory that Kennedy and Carter are one person is very popular.
    2. +6
      28 May 2021 22: 18
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the interesting article!
      Informative, as always.

      With drawings, good photos and competent technical information. The history of weapons is something that VO is sometimes sorely lacking. An outlet in the endless stream of news ...
      I love news, but my soul curiously demands interesting stories that you skillfully find and give us.
  2. +5
    28 May 2021 18: 17
    After reading the title, I thought that another article was about these utyrki, but I was mistaken. Interesting material, a well-deserved plus for the author!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +11
      28 May 2021 19: 16
      Quote: ASAD
      thought that another article about these utyrk

      I just think that about the utyrk is still almost missing.
      I would love to read a forensic report with a detailed description of the passage of bullets through obstacles - how many, which hit where, what they did along the way, where they stopped. Such a spectacular finishing touch to the description of the life path of two bloody scoundrels. Since the site is still 18+, it is also possible with photos. smile
      Thanks to the author for the great material. hi
      1. +11
        28 May 2021 19: 25
        Such a spectacular finishing touch to the description of the life path of two bloody scoundrels.
        Michael! hi
        Here's just the same thirst (!) To read the story of Robin Hood in your presentation. laughing
        1. +7
          28 May 2021 20: 16
          Ha! The story of Robin Hood, as I play it, will be nothing more than a short chapter in the story of Sir Guy of Gisborne and the Sheriff of Nottingham. With a finale similar to the finale of these comrades.
          1. +3
            28 May 2021 21: 01
            This is "Ha!", And I would like to read!
            Interesting "enticement"?
        2. +7
          28 May 2021 20: 58
          And now what is Walter Scott and Vysotsky to do? And to everyone who read and listened?
          1. +6
            28 May 2021 21: 13
            Quote from Korsar4
            And now what is Walter Scott and Vysotsky to do?

            What has changed for them? smile
            Quote from Korsar4
            to everyone who read and listened to

            Well ... Let's just say it never hurts to have an alternative view of events. smile
            1. +4
              28 May 2021 21: 18
              Probably they have stability.
              But, there is a popular expression that provides for the rotation of something that usually does not rotate.
              1. +5
                28 May 2021 22: 07
                They will look at Chapaev with his orderly and say: we were lucky in general. smile
                And the rotation itself is not so bad if the rotation is not on the one on which we rotate each other during life. smile
                1. +4
                  28 May 2021 22: 20
                  We do not treat each other so badly.
                  And the stone ax is not always required to give back.
                  1. +4
                    28 May 2021 22: 30
                    Quote from Korsar4
                    We do not treat each other so badly.

                    I can't sit with you all my life -
                    I need to kill somebody!

                    smile
                    And yes, we are okay.
                    1. +4
                      28 May 2021 22: 34
                      No controversy. Sustainability through diversity.
                      1. +5
                        28 May 2021 22: 41
                        Yes, the question is what is considered the norm.
                      2. +5
                        28 May 2021 22: 43
                        But this is also changeable.
                        Probably the criterion is life.
                        But not the only one.
      2. +4
        28 May 2021 20: 33
        Misha, good evening. How would Astra react to your desire?
        She is a little straightforward in her emotions.
        1. +7
          28 May 2021 20: 52
          Hello, Glory.
          I don’t know, maybe Astra works with her girls in the anatomical and sees this every day, or even worse ... smile
          In any case, if you don't want to - don't read, if you can't - don't look. And the younger generation needs to be educated. They will see how death really looks like, you look someone will not want to jump out of the window from unhappy love, someone will think once more before going on a crime ... And then there is such a case - love, romance, blood, money, freedom , a challenge to society ... People should not only know how it all ends, but also see with their own eyes exactly how.
          1. +2
            28 May 2021 21: 01
            I think she said that she works in the clinic in such a way that she hardly saw something like that.
            As for the young, I generally agree with you. Some clown will look at what will turn his carcass, think twice: do I need it?
      3. 0
        5 August 2021 19: 20
        there is something unhealthy about it.
        With respect.
  3. +7
    28 May 2021 18: 34
    But the army or the USMC was not interested in such weapons?
    The cartridges were of the wrong system? Or was it based on the unit price?
    1. +5
      28 May 2021 18: 58
      Hi Aleksey! hi
      They (the army) already had a self-loading "Garand M1" and there was no need to change an awl for soap, but they knew how to count money.
      1. +6
        28 May 2021 19: 30
        and they knew how to count money.
        This is the whole point. There was a more successful development, but the "guarantor" joined the "stream".
        1. +4
          28 May 2021 19: 34
          Hello Anton! smile
          What kind of development do you mean?
          1. +6
            28 May 2021 19: 48
            I do not remember. Shpakovsky wrote in a series about rifles. There was a model, on the eve of the war, better than a "guaranty", but did not go to the troops.
            1. +4
              28 May 2021 20: 14
              A Johnson M1941 case?
              1. +8
                28 May 2021 22: 47
                The competitor to the .30 Garand, which is known as the M1 Garand, was the .276 Garand, which won by clear advantage.

                However, the War Department, referring to the fact that there is a very large stock of. 30, banned work on the .276 Garand and the .30 Garand went into production.
                1. +4
                  28 May 2021 22: 59
                  Garand competed with Garand - he lost to himself and won from himself. Well, America ... request
        2. +6
          28 May 2021 19: 46
          "Garand" started up in 1936. And the M8 with 15 cartridge "horn" was already in 1934. Rather, it was in the cartridge and the ability of the design to withstand its power.
          1. +3
            28 May 2021 20: 10
            There is generally a different model, from a different manufacturer. Alas, I don’t remember.
      2. +2
        28 May 2021 20: 09
        Kostya, Kostya, I don't know much about the performance characteristics of Garand. Looks like 32 caliber, 10 rounds magazine? Have the GXNUMX also used a rifle cartridge?
        1. +7
          28 May 2021 20: 39
          About "Garanda": Cartridge .30-06 Springfield (7,62 × 63 mm)
          .276 Pedersen
          7,62 × 51 mm NATO post-war use by the US Navy
          Caliber, mm 7,62
          Loading - a pack of eight rounds.


          About cartridges for the "eight: today this ammunition is denoted by different names: .35 Remington, 9x48 Browning, 9x49 mm. This cartridge has a high stopping effect, but low speed and, therefore, was only suitable for firing at short distances, up to about 150 m .To bring the rifle's aiming range closer to the "military models", later Remington Model 8 rifles were released .32 (8 mm), .30 (7, 62 mm) and even .25 (6,35 mm ) calibers.

          Shop for the "eight.
          1. +4
            28 May 2021 20: 56
            Kostya, I'm not a gunsmith, but a "teapot" and I could be wrong.
            So I remember approximately from Two: the 32nd is 7,62,38th is 9 mm. Where is my Beetle, I do not remember, somewhere is, but in Vick to climb into the "scrap"
            1. +1
              28 May 2021 21: 41
              I have a Beetle lying next to me, but also poking around in scrap. smile
          2. +2
            28 May 2021 21: 36
            And 7,62 for how long is the sleeve?
            1. +3
              28 May 2021 21: 40
              Alexey, frankly, is too lazy to go looking, but I don’t remember. request
              1. +5
                28 May 2021 21: 42
                Laziness is the engine of PROGRESS.
                1. +5
                  28 May 2021 21: 47
                  A clear stump, so the wheel was born. laughing
          3. +3
            28 May 2021 21: 41
            The Americans had a rifle cartridge with probably the longest case. 63mm against Russians 54. Finns shortened to 51.
            The Germans have 57. French Lebel -50.
            1. +1
              31 May 2021 16: 45
              The problem with the quality of gunpowder and barrel steel, in fact. That is why the first version of the cartridge - Cartridge, ball, caliber .30, М1906 gave out on a standard 610-mm barrel length ndul energy of only 3200 Joules.
              The .30 M1 ball of the 1926 model already delivered a muzzle energy of 3600 Joules (similar to the muzzle energy of the later 7,62x51mm NATO cartridge) on the same barrel.
    2. +1
      31 May 2021 16: 39
      But the army or the USMC was not interested in such weapons?
      The cartridges were of the wrong system?

      And why did the army have a self-loading rifle with an effective firing range of 150-200 meters, while weighing 3,6 kilograms (for comparison, the M1903 Springfield weighed 3,9 kg)?
      More precisely ... it's even more interesting here. As a result, weapons created according to a similar concept did find their niche in the armament system of the US Armed Forces. Now, of course, I'm talking about the M1 Carbine.
      1. +1
        31 May 2021 18: 07
        That's just the point - there is no trace of an attempt to alter it under the standard cartridge of the American army .30. It turns out that the design of the M8 itself was not designed for cartridges of such power. And already in the process of WWII, the Americans were looking for their own version of lightening self-loading weapons with a cartridge less powerful than a standard rifle.
        The Germans created their own Kurzpatron and a series of Sturgevers. Americans - Carbin M1.
  4. +5
    28 May 2021 18: 35
    Informative article. Interestingly, such a powerful ammunition as 35 Remington is used in hunting big game? Bullet 9 mm. weighing 13 g, flying at a speed of 635 m / s has an energy of more than 2600 J. Even at a distance of 100 meters from the place of the shot, it will have enough kinetic energy to knock the bear down.
  5. +9
    28 May 2021 18: 55
    Vyacheslav hi , thanks for the unexpected joy! smile
    Even if you are staring at night, it is still nice, the article is, as always, at a high level, for which we are grateful to you. good
    I decided to shove in a couple of photos of the Remington Model 8., the rifle, indeed, is very good.


  6. +4
    28 May 2021 19: 04
    The M8 is the "Model 8".
    The birthday of the "Model 8" rifle is October 16, 1900. It was on this day that John Moses Browning received US patent N 659786 for a self-loading rifle, in which the automatics operated on the principle of a dyno stroke, that is, on the recoil of the barrel under the action of the recoil from the shot. Later, the M8 was sold as a development to the Remington company, which was the beginning of its mass production, starting in 1906.
    It was the world's first semi-automatic rifle! And among civilians it was a resounding success.
    1. +7
      28 May 2021 20: 03
      Good evening, Luda. smile
      For the sake of justice, we must remember the Mexican General Mondragon.
      The Mondragon rifle is the world's first self-loading rifle, developed in Mexico by General Manuel Mondragon. History. The development of the Mondragon rifle began in 1882, and was patented by him in 1887. Mondragon began work on the creation of rifles with manual reloading at the end of the 19th century, and until 1896 he patented the first self-loading rifle of his design for the original small-caliber high-power cartridge 5,2 × 68 by Major Eduard Rubin.
      During the First World War, these rifles, called "Fliegerselbstladekarabiner Model 1915" (FSK.15), a 1915 model light aviation carbine, were issued to the crews of German reconnaissance aircraft, airships and balloons. In Mexico, the rifle served until the early 1950s [2].
      1. +5
        28 May 2021 20: 43
        Kostya, good evening! )))
        With the priority of justice - I agree! But, you see, the Americans did not agree with their powerful production of weapons products in comparison with Mexico)))
        1. +4
          28 May 2021 20: 48
          And America before the First World War was just a rotten backwater, they didn't need it. But in Europe, among the Nemaki, the rifle went "with a bang."
          1. +3
            28 May 2021 20: 58
            Is this rifle the M8? )))
            1. +3
              28 May 2021 21: 07
              No, Mexican Mondragon smile
              1. +3
                28 May 2021 21: 20
                Interesting ... Is it possible that Kehler and Koch have risen so high on the basis of this rifle over time? But it was formed in 1949.
                1. +5
                  28 May 2021 21: 34
                  Luda, Heckler and Koch have absolutely nothing to do with it.
                  Since there was practically no arms industry in Mexico itself, the production of rifles was transferred to the Swiss company SIG, from which the Mexican army acquired them. But in 1911, purchases stopped, a revolution began in Mexico. After that, the SIG firm sold very cheaply a batch of 3 thousand rifles in Germany. These rifles were put into service with the German infantry as light machine guns, for which drum magazines for 30 rounds were developed.

                  1. +3
                    28 May 2021 22: 07
                    Evil tongues say that from Mondragon there is only a name, and the development itself is Saurer and Co.
                    As if there was a beautiful corruption scheme, where Mondragon ensured the victory of the system in the competition and received a kickback as an "author".

                    I don’t know how true it is in this case, but this is exactly the scheme he used with the Hotchkiss rapid-fire cannons.
                    1. +1
                      28 May 2021 22: 18
                      Interestingly, I haven't heard anything about it. And what happened to the Hotchkiss?
                      1. +3
                        28 May 2021 22: 50
                        A classic of Latin American gun corruption.

                        Sequence of events:
                        1) the Saint-Chamond company, a subsidiary of the Hotchkiss corporation, is developing a 75-mm light rapid-fire field gun (general designer - Emile Rimayo)
                        2) Mexico announces a competition for a 75 mm rapid-fire field gun with very similar characteristics
                        3) Colonel Mondragon, Assistant Inspector of Artillery of Mexico, registers a patent for a 75-mm rapid-fire (in fact - the Saint-Chamond cannon with cosmetic changes)
                        4) this patented system wins a crushing victory in the competition, as the only "national" model, and not inferior to other competitors
                        5) since there is nowhere to produce it in Mexico, a competition is announced for the production of the system, at a fixed price, with a strict delivery time limit
                        6) Saint-Chamond wins in this competition, because even if the price is attractive to many, no one else has _ ready_ production equipment
                        7) Colonel Mondragon receives patent royalties from each gun, and after a few years he receives the rank of general and the position of inspector of artillery.

                        However, I didn’t finish very well: decisiveness in shooting rioters sometimes badly affects popularity.
                        Yes, and the execution of political opponents is best heralded as a "tragic accident", without being smeared personally.
                      2. +2
                        28 May 2021 22: 58
                        Great story, thank you! good And how did the gallant general finish, did the guerillas really screw up?
                      3. +2
                        29 May 2021 21: 40
                        No, his dictator Victoriano Huerta, who was enthroned by him, pushed him into exile in Spain, like a toxic asset, head over heels in his blood.
                      4. 0
                        29 May 2021 21: 42
                        Well, on Huerth's part, it is quite a prudent move.
                  2. +4
                    28 May 2021 22: 07
                    And Germany bought it?
                    But they had their own M-88 rifle, which was put into service in 1888, and in 1905 and 1914. two modifications were carried out, Gewehr 88/05 and Gewehr 88/14. In addition, China released an unlicensed copy under the designation Hanyang 88 (here I fell out - I had a clear idea that China at that time was just a hole and could not release anything). The rifle was produced by Ludwig Loewe, Haenel, Steyr-Mannlicher, Imperial Arsenals of Amberg, Danzig, Erfurt, and Spandau, Hanyang Arsenal. A feature of the rifle was the magazine, which was loaded with a pack of cartridges. During firing, a pack of cartridges was in the store until the last cartridge, after which it fell out through the hole in the lower part of the store. This made reloading faster.
                    So why did the Swiss buy what they themselves had?
                    But I mentioned Kehler and Koch just because they undertook to modify the descendants of M8)))
                    1. +2
                      28 May 2021 22: 27
                      These rifles, unlike the Mondragon, were not self-loading, ordinary bolt-action screws.
                      Gewehr 1888
                      1. +2
                        28 May 2021 22: 39
                        That is, it was necessary to juggle?
                      2. +3
                        28 May 2021 22: 50
                        Well, yes, reloading was done manually. As on the Three Line.
    2. +9
      28 May 2021 20: 41
      It was the world's first semi-automatic rifle! And among civilians it was a resounding success.

      Oh, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I did not notice such a craving for militarism in you before.
      This was not the world's first semi-automatic rifle.
      It was the world's first commercially successful semi-automatic rifle.
      And the world's first semi-automatic rifle, the automation of which worked on the principle of barrel recoil with its long stroke, was developed by Ferdinand Mannlicher in 1885.

      Unfortunately, the black powder cartridges did not allow the rifle to go beyond the prototypes, and the military then did not at all seek to acquire rapid-fire rifles.
      1. +5
        28 May 2021 20: 56
        Viktor Nikolaevich, you just haven't read all my comments. I am still a militarist! wassat )))
        1. +5
          28 May 2021 21: 22
          Yes? Wow.
          A woman's heart is a dark book; no matter how you read it or reread it in various and numerous editions, you will never finish reading everything.
          1. +5
            28 May 2021 21: 52
            I am the dark water in the clouds ...
            "And he made the darkness his cover, the darkness around him, the darkness of the waters, the clouds of the air."
            Yeah)))
          2. +4
            28 May 2021 22: 24
            Multivolume.
  7. +6
    28 May 2021 19: 16
    And especially after Hillard also proved to the head of the local police that they would shoot even at 30 degrees below zero.
    If we consider that the Americans at that time used the Fahrenheit scale to determine the temperature, then the result does not seem to be a technical achievement: -1,1 Celsius.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +5
      28 May 2021 19: 32
      We counted a little incorrectly. Not + 30 ... but -30 Fahrenheit: (-30 ° F - 32) × 5/9 = -34,44 ° C
      1. +4
        28 May 2021 19: 42
        Yes, I messed up "not childishly"! feel crying
        On the other hand, I'm a jester, what can I get from a fool? wassat
        On the third, where is Missouri, and where is -35 Celsius?
        1. +4
          28 May 2021 20: 01
          Anton, who doesn't care about Fahrenheit and Celsius! And also with miles and kilometers, feet and pounds there are some))))
          The cans were shot with frozen tomatoes. I don't think the experiment is clean wassat
          1. +3
            28 May 2021 20: 38
            And what to replace the tomato with.

            When in high school we were taken to the nearest fields to harvest, the girls in the school bus sang:
            "America, America, tomato juice" (c).
            1. +4
              28 May 2021 20: 46
              I suppose the experiment should have been carried out in the Arctic - there the rifle is cold, and the air, and the target, all three test factors under the same conditions)))
              1. +2
                28 May 2021 21: 13
                I agree: it would be interesting to see both the rifle and the southerner in the Arctic. I'm afraid that the southerner shooter will turn into an icicle
                1. +2
                  28 May 2021 21: 42
                  So judge for yourself, Svyatoslav.
                  We tested a bunch of weapons in Syria - one that proved to be excellent in mid-latitudes, that is, at Russian training grounds. And in Syria it failed. Because the heat, the finest dust suspension, and just sand, different atmospheric pressure, humidity. Therefore, it was not necessary to shoot at a can of frozen tomatoes, but to test the weapon in real frost conditions. But who in those days really thought about such things. However, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the experience of using depending on the climate has already been.
                  By the way, electronic products are very sensitive to climate.
          2. +3
            28 May 2021 20: 40
            I don't think the experiment is clean
            So I think it's better - by "blacks"
            1. +4
              28 May 2021 20: 52
              Well, Anton, you and your thinking do not fit into the modern Western ideology of universal tolerance wassat
              1. +3
                28 May 2021 21: 05
                What to do, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! request The "white man's burden" weighs on my mind ...
                1. +3
                  28 May 2021 21: 13
                  It, this burden, comfortably places you in that dimension, which probably all white men in America dream of getting into, but so far they are only hoarding their dream in reserve. But when it accumulates ... It will be interesting to read the news wassat ))))
                  1. +3
                    28 May 2021 21: 21
                    I, unlike most white men in America, read Farnham Freehold.
                    1. +2
                      28 May 2021 21: 48
                      I'm not a white Russian man, and maybe that's why I haven't read Farnham Freehold. As the name suggests, this is a farm where the owner freed the black slaves, and they ... Um ... I can't even imagine. Any horror?
                      1. +3
                        28 May 2021 21: 55
                        Robert Heinlein, classic of American fiction.
                      2. +2
                        28 May 2021 22: 25
                        I heard about this, but did not read it. I am ashamed of my ignorance. We'll have to postpone rereading the Strugatskys and plunge into the creation of the classic you are proposing. It's difficult. You need to overcome yourself. When someone offers me something, I experience a state of strong inner resistance. Probably, the subconscious, trained by life experience, suggests that something is being imposed on me to the detriment of me. You can't live like that! wassat )))
                      3. +2
                        28 May 2021 22: 02
                        white russian man
                        Russian is not a nationality or skin color. Russian is a state of mind.
                  2. 0
                    29 May 2021 05: 59
                    I wish I could read this
                2. +2
                  28 May 2021 21: 55
                  "To the service of the half-wild
                  Gloomy tribes "(c).
                  1. +2
                    28 May 2021 22: 32
                    Sergei ... Well, you know how to say it! Laughed for a long time))) I liked this - "gloomy". It seems that Anton is ready to take up his duties. I don't seem to. Even though I am white, but the burden is something of a white man. And I still cannot solve the question: is a woman a man?
                    1. +2
                      28 May 2021 22: 39
                      Why did the quote from Kipling make you laugh?
                      And what kind of neighborhood fell out - nothing can be done.

                      But, to be honest, yes - I can be a master of artistic words.
                      1. +2
                        28 May 2021 23: 00
                        Not so much a quote as a contrast to Anton's remark. Doom for "gloomy" tribes. Why have you doomed yourself?)))
                        On occasion, I put them, the tribes, in their place. Were put! And doom leads to the fact that they put the doomed in their place. Which is what happens.
                      2. +2
                        28 May 2021 23: 13
                        If Kipling's lines respond, we can still fight and achieve good luck. No matter how pretentious it sounds.
                      3. +2
                        28 May 2021 23: 15
                        yes - I can be a master of artistic words.
                        "Damn smart and terribly humble"
                      4. +3
                        28 May 2021 23: 19
                        But at least on Friday night you can.
                        Whoever wishes can dispute. I will listen.
                      5. +3
                        28 May 2021 23: 24
                        Who wants to - can listen,
                        Who does not want - I will dispute.
                      6. +3
                        28 May 2021 23: 26
                        Yeah. And the uttered maxims should be written down as homework.
                      7. +3
                        28 May 2021 23: 45
                        "I did it - write it down, I didn't do it - write it down twice" (C)
                        So one traumatologist told me, remembering how he was taught the profession.
                      8. +3
                        28 May 2021 23: 50
                        This is familiar. Can not argue with that.
                        Again, you can't hide from crazy work programs.

                        But every job has its own pitfalls.
            2. +3
              28 May 2021 23: 09
              which is better - on "blacks"
              good +++ good answer.
          3. +4
            28 May 2021 21: 51
            However, some American measures may differ from generally accepted ones. For example, the Americans "lowered" the altitude of the spacewalk for their spacecraft. And what is considered by everyone to be a layer of the atmosphere, then they already have a near-earth orbit.
  8. +4
    28 May 2021 19: 21
    And members of the forum express their gratitude to the author! hi You know how to present the material so that the novel reads! And what about the accuracy and range of the M8? Was it possible not to put, in theory, a telescopic sight, and what about the accuracy of the successes?
    1. +1
      30 May 2021 19: 16
      Quote: Thrifty
      Was it possible not to put, in theory, a telescopic sight, and what about the accuracy of the successes?

      Thank you. But I cannot answer your question 100%. Optical sights were rare then. It was easier to buy a Tommy-gun than such a sight. And the accuracy ... those authors that I read about it were not. Well, everyone praises the gun.
  9. +2
    28 May 2021 19: 45
    "she fell shot through" Hilad was a good shooter, but what if he was a mediocre shooter?
  10. +1
    28 May 2021 19: 55
    But the years passed, decades passed, the weapon thought did not stand still, and now the assault automatic rifle began to be called the assault complex, on which a lot of fancy things were done.
    The German company Heckler & Koch became the best manufacturer of assault automatic systems.
    Together with this company, the American weapons ATK (Alliant Techsystems) based on the HK G36 has developed the now distant descendant of the semi-automatic M8, namely the XM8 assault complex, to replace the M16 and M4A1 assault rifles, compared with which it has less weight and greater reliability. Using new chucks with a lightweight composite reinforced plastic sleeve, the XM8 achieves 20% weight savings over the M16.
    The peculiarity of the "descendant" in comparison with the indicated previous modifications consists in the automation with a short stroke of the gas piston located above the barrel, and locking by turning the bolt, which has 7 lugs. Receiver and forend are made of high-strength plastic. The buttstock is a five-position telescopic adjustable in length, easily removable, also made of plastic. Above the pistol grip is a double-sided fuse-translator of fire modes, which allows firing single shots and continuous bursts. The barrel has increased survivability - (more than 20 rounds). The modular configuration allows the use of barrels of various lengths, adapting the weapon to specific conditions.

    The start of production of this weapon was scheduled for about 2006. In 2004, the assault rifles underwent extensive testing in the US military, earning positive reviews. Despite this, in October 2005 the project was officially closed. At the same time, based on the press releases of the American branch of the manufacturer (January 2011), it can be concluded that the project, in one form or another, will continue.
    In the yard 2021 year.
    But no information can be found about whether the XM8 is manufactured in the United States. It looks like Heckler & Koch has supplanted the XM8 with its own assault complex, which is considered the best in the world.
  11. +3
    28 May 2021 20: 01
    What a fine fellow Hillard: he correctly promoted the rifle, not show-off, but in the case.
  12. +2
    28 May 2021 20: 41
    "compared to armed:" Thomsons of "gangsters" I would become with an inflection point: "Thomson", he is good at a distance of no more than 40 m, and the "eight" together with the car will turn him into a drushlag
  13. +5
    28 May 2021 21: 12
    Tired of putting pluses! Excellent article + kind company, a distinctive feature of Friday reading from Vyacheslav Olegovich and comrades !!! Thanks everyone !!!
    1. +2
      28 May 2021 23: 23
      Vladislav, shake your hand! The company is really uncommonly warm, it was nice to talk to everyone love )))
  14. +2
    28 May 2021 21: 51
    Quote: Nikkon
    Informative article. Interestingly, such a powerful ammunition as 35 Remington is used in hunting big game? Bullet 9 mm. weighing 13 g, flying at a speed of 635 m / s has an energy of more than 2600 J. Even at a distance of 100 meters from the place of the shot, it will have enough kinetic energy to knock the bear down.

    So what? Slow-moving mortar. The same good old 308 has 3,5 kJ at the muzzle. I am silent about 30-06. And bullets for 30-k are produced in large weights. For example, the same flat-backed round-headed sledgehammer Sierra Pro Hunter RN or Hornady SP RN weighing 220 UAH = 14,5 gr. I do not understand the enthusiasm of the squadrons with these overgrown revolving cartridges. A very highly specialized ammunition for shooting exceptionally short-term. This is apparently from the same opera as the fascination with revolvers.
    In the 308, you can fit a very long-range match bullet and a hunting one with a narrowed rear end for a longer shot.
    Shl By the way, for "making holes in the cylinder blocks of automobile engines" the 308th is more suitable, as well as the 30-06. bully
    1. 0
      31 May 2021 16: 56
      The same good old 308 has 3,5 kJ at the muzzle. I am silent about 30-06.

      The .30-06 type M1 ball of the 1926 model had the same 3,5-3,6 kilojoules at the muzzle as the 7,62x51mm NATO.
      Modern hunting and sporting cartridges based on the .30-06 cartridge are already a slightly different story - there is initially a much higher parameter of the ultimate pressure in the chamber when fired.
      these overgrown revolving cartridges. A very highly specialized ammunition for shooting extremely short-term.

      .35 Remington - weltless cartridge. So for the role of a revolver, he is somehow not very good. This is a perfectly normal rifle cartridge. He's just not a military man, but a hunting one. It's simple - for a hunting cartridge, a firing range of more than three hundred meters is actually simply not needed. Otherwise, the hunter will then start looking for prey. Usually, the firing range for such weapons is even less - within 150-200 meters.
      But a hunting cartridge needs a high stopping effect. Therefore, a blunt-nosed bullet is not the best from the point of view of ballistics.
  15. +1
    29 May 2021 22: 20
    Why didn't they come up with a two-row store, I wonder?
    1. +1
      31 May 2021 16: 59
      Why didn't they come up with a two-row store, I wonder?

      Perhaps the reason is that the cartridge supply system in the weapon itself is not designed to work with a double-row magazine.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  16. 0
    31 May 2021 17: 42
    Quote: Terran Ghost
    Why didn't they come up with a two-row store, I wonder?

    Perhaps the reason is that the cartridge supply system in the weapon itself is not designed to work with a double-row magazine.

    Duc at the double-row store on issue, then there is still one cartridge
  17. 0
    5 August 2021 19: 14
    What cannot be taken away from the Americans - they can inflate any ordinary episode to the skies. Two raiders who were shot dead, killed in a purely American manner - for some reason they were riddled, as if they were some kind of undead. That is, this "magnificent eight" was apparently afraid to death of them. Either they are terrible non-professionals and did not know how much and where a person needs lead, so that he would not get up.

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