Military Review

The Great Eight vs. Bonnie and Clyde

251
The Great Eight vs. Bonnie and Clyde
The M8 rifle that shot Bonnie and Clyde's car. Waco Museum, Texas


Miscellaneous weapon - different fates. It is possible that, had it not been in the hands of the hunters for Bonnie and Clyde M8, they might have gone out of the hands of the law this time too. And maybe they would have lived a little more. And they killed someone else ...
"... for with what judgment you judge, you will be judged."
(Matthew 7: 2)

Weapons and firms. Last time we told VO readers about the life and death of Bonnie and Clyde. Today, in continuation of this topic, there will be a story about what role the weapon created by John Browning played in their fate, namely his "Great Eight" or the M8 automatic rifle.


Here they are, M8 and M81 - of different caliber and release time

And it so happened that long before even the very concept of modern assault rifles appeared, a company from St. Joseph, Missouri, modified the Remington M-8 rifle to help law enforcement officers. They needed a weapon capable of giving them significant superiority over criminals. At that time, newspapers wrote a lot about the use of Thompson submachine guns by gangsters, and law enforcement officials themselves faced this. Therefore, in the 1930s, many government services and departments were simply forced to take up their weapons arsenal in order to have superiority in the event of a shootout with bandits. The Peace Officer Equipment Company also thought about it, which can be translated as "Equipment for peacekeepers", and presented a specially modified model of the M8 rifle, designed specifically for use by law enforcement agencies. While the M8 was not originally intended for military or police service, it turned out to be just perfect for extended gunfights. The "peacemaker" shooter could fire "fifteen crushing aimed shots - plus additional range, penetration and shock" without reloading, the advertisement for this enterprise said. The usual M8 rifle had a five-round magazine.

So, the designers from "Peace ..." put on it a replaceable magazine of three times the capacity, which made it possible to conduct a fairly long fire battle. Of course, the Thompson submachine gun had tremendous firepower, but ... its bullets had low penetrating power, and it was ridiculous to talk about the accuracy of its shooting. So the advantage of these new M8s, in addition to magazine capacity, was that they fired .35 Remington rounds. This cartridge fired a 9,1 mm caliber bullet and weighing 13 g at a speed of 635 m / s per second, which was more than enough to pierce through the steel bodies of the then cars.

If the recoil of this model seemed too strong to someone, then for this case there were rifles chambered for .30 Remington: 7,8 mm caliber. A bullet weighing 10 g had a speed of 647 m / s, which, by the way, also guaranteed it a fairly good armor penetration. Although it was noted that she showed all her good qualities (including a small tendency to ricochets) only at a distance of 150 m. But this was quite enough for the same police when she chased gangster cars.


M8, appearance

The police models M8 and M81 might never have appeared had it not been for the insight of Newton S. Hillard, founder and president of the Hillyard Chemical Company in St. Joseph, Missouri. Moreover, he received about 50 patents before his death. By the way, his company, founded by him in 1907, continues to operate as a family business today. However, Newton was also fond of weapons and, being a very entrepreneurial person, in the 1920s he founded the Peace Officer Equipment Company. The company's main product was the Flash Commander, a car warning light that allowed police officers to identify each other in the dark. He also sold various items to law enforcement such as handcuffs, tear gas grenades, etc.

Back in 1929, Peace Officer Equipment Co. (or POE for short) was busy redesigning the Remington Model 8 so that it could use a replaceable multi-charge magazine. In addition, the firm ditched a factory-made forend in favor of a custom-made one that was longer and wider. A modified M8 model by Peace Officer Equipment Co. proved to be convenient and quickly gained popularity in and around Missouri.

The heart of these new rifles is the store. Whether in .30 Remington or .35 Remington calibers, the magazines were made of steel (including sidewalls, arcuate walls and end plate) and were highly durable. The slightly curved magazine had double guide ribs, one on each side, to keep the cartridges in a central position as they were fed into the chamber. Perhaps one of the most notable features of this store was that each had its own latch, built directly into the store itself. In other versions of removable magazines, such as the Krieger magazine, the latch was located in the trigger plate.


15-cartridge magazine patent

Newton Hillard applied for a patent for this store on October 8, 1934. By May 25, 1937, he was granted US patent No. 2081 235. The magazine capacity was 15 rounds, but it was considered sufficient.

In 1934, the company held a demonstration of its weapons in a pasture in Kirksville, where the chief of the local police, the sheriff, the chief of the city fire department and the banker, whose bank had recently been robbed by armed bandits, were invited. The rifle was represented by NS Hillard himself, the owner and director of the company.

“Look, gentlemen,” he said, “how easy it is to hit the target with our rifle. Take a look at the destructive effect of her bullets on the engine block of this car (a car from a junkyard was specially brought for this demonstration), and you will appreciate its undoubted advantage when chasing a gangster car or a criminal wearing a bulletproof vest. Look, our police rifle is about to hit a half dollar target in the air. "

After that, Hillard asked for half a dollar, but since no one responded to his request, he took out a coin from his own pocket, his assistant threw it into the air, a shot rang out and ... she fell, shot through and through, right at the feet of the excited spectators. The banker, faithful to his profession, was the first to grab this coin and put it in his pocket. After that, the rifles began to sell very well. And especially after Hillard also proved to the head of the local police that they would shoot even at 30 degrees below zero. During his demonstration, he then fired at cans of tomato juice, which exploded into clouds of frozen red dust.


Receiver М81

In recognition of the exceptional firepower of the POE's M8, Remington also wanted a piece of police pie. In 1938, the company began production of a modified rifle, called the "Special Police", intended specifically for sale to law enforcement agencies. The M11 and M31 shotguns were also included in this lineup, and after working with POE, the Model 81 was also included.

The M81 "especially for the police" rifle, like its predecessor, the M8, was excellent for close range work. With a 15-round magazine, the policeman no longer had to worry about slow reloading or lack of firepower over armed Thompson gangsters. The main market for the "special police" were law enforcement agencies.

But at the outbreak of World War II, the Remington Company offered it to arm the National Guard. Such rifles in the hands of trained shooters, in her opinion, could come in handy, for example, in the fight against paratroopers. They could be destroyed with a semi-automatic in a short time of their release, while a soldier with a bolt action rifle would waste precious seconds to reload after each shot ”(Chicago Daily Tribune, May 6, 1940).


Photo "hunters for Bonnie and Clyde"

Interestingly, in addition to 15-round magazines, 10-round and even 5-round magazines of a similar design were also produced. Moreover, it is worth noting that a 10-round magazine cost $ 1 more than a 15-round magazine.

And finally, the most important thing: it was from the police model M8 that Bonnie and Clyde were killed.

In the 1968 documentary film The Other Side of Bonnie and Clyde by Larry Buchanan, Frank Hamer Jr., son of Frank Hamer, one of the participants in the ambush on a country road in Bienville, was interviewed and talked about the weapons his father was then using. It was an M8 rifle with a 15-round magazine. Although Hamer Jr. said in this interview that he was 20, they just weren’t released!


And this is how they shoot from the M8 today

At first he wanted to take the Thompson. And took. But, having fired from him at the car in the junkyard, I realized that his Ford V8 bullets would not pierce. And then he took the 9mm Remington M8. And he succeeded in everything with him! So in stories In the fight against banditry in the United States, this Browning weapon has played a very special role!

PS


The author and the site administration would like to thank Cameron Woodall for the permission to use his materials.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 28 May 2021 18: 10
    +15
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Interesting as always. By the way, after the beginning of publications about Bon and Clyde, I revisited the Hollywood film of 2013.
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 28 May 2021 19: 42
      +6
      Just think, the bandits were soaked
      Carcano M91 / 38 carbine is cooler, from which presidents are pissed off
      (but seriously, thanks for the interesting article)
      1. unknown
        unknown 29 May 2021 06: 48
        +2
        Which presidents?
        Kennedy or what?
        Curiously, in some photos the front door windows are completely lowered, in others they are half-lowered.
        Probably, at the time of the assassination attempt, the main task was to lift the windows of the front doors.
        No wonder, in the US sector of the Internet, the theory that Kennedy and Carter are one person is very popular.
    2. RealPilot
      RealPilot 28 May 2021 22: 18
      +6
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the interesting article!
      Informative, as always.

      With drawings, good photos and competent technical information. The history of weapons is something that VO is sometimes sorely lacking. An outlet in the endless stream of news ...
      I love news, but my soul curiously demands interesting stories that you skillfully find and give us.
  2. Asad
    Asad 28 May 2021 18: 17
    +5
    After reading the title, I thought that another article was about these utyrki, but I was mistaken. Interesting material, a well-deserved plus for the author!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 19: 16
      +11
      Quote: ASAD
      thought that another article about these utyrk

      I just think that about the utyrk is still almost missing.
      I would love to read a forensic report with a detailed description of the passage of bullets through obstacles - how many, which hit where, what they did along the way, where they stopped. Such a spectacular finishing touch to the description of the life path of two bloody scoundrels. Since the site is still 18+, it is also possible with photos. smile
      Thanks to the author for the great material. hi
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 25
        +11
        Such a spectacular finishing touch to the description of the life path of two bloody scoundrels.
        Michael! hi
        Here's just the same thirst (!) To read the story of Robin Hood in your presentation. laughing
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 20: 16
          +7
          Ha! The story of Robin Hood, as I play it, will be nothing more than a short chapter in the story of Sir Guy of Gisborne and the Sheriff of Nottingham. With a finale similar to the finale of these comrades.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 21: 01
            +3
            This is "Ha!", And I would like to read!
            Interesting "enticement"?
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 28 May 2021 20: 58
          +7
          And now what is Walter Scott and Vysotsky to do? And to everyone who read and listened?
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 21: 13
            +6
            Quote: Korsar4
            And now what is Walter Scott and Vysotsky to do?

            What has changed for them? smile
            Quote: Korsar4
            to everyone who read and listened to

            Well ... Let's just say it never hurts to have an alternative view of events. smile
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 28 May 2021 21: 18
              +4
              Probably they have stability.
              But, there is a popular expression that provides for the rotation of something that usually does not rotate.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 22: 07
                +5
                They will look at Chapaev with his orderly and say: we were lucky in general. smile
                And the rotation itself is not so bad if the rotation is not on the one on which we rotate each other during life. smile
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 20
                  +4
                  We do not treat each other so badly.
                  And the stone ax is not always required to give back.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 22: 30
                    +4
                    Quote: Korsar4
                    We do not treat each other so badly.

                    I can't sit with you all my life -
                    I need to kill somebody!

                    smile
                    And yes, we are okay.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 34
                      +4
                      No controversy. Sustainability through diversity.
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 22: 41
                        +5
                        Yes, the question is what is considered the norm.
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 43
                        +5
                        But this is also changeable.
                        Probably the criterion is life.
                        But not the only one.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 28 May 2021 20: 33
      +4
      Misha, good evening. How would Astra react to your desire?
      She is a little straightforward in her emotions.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 28 May 2021 20: 52
        +7
        Hello, Glory.
        I don’t know, maybe Astra works with her girls in the anatomical and sees this every day, or even worse ... smile
        In any case, if you don't want to - don't read, if you can't - don't look. And the younger generation needs to be educated. They will see how death really looks like, you look someone will not want to jump out of the window from unhappy love, someone will think once more before going on a crime ... And then there is such a case - love, romance, blood, money, freedom , a challenge to society ... People should not only know how it all ends, but also see with their own eyes exactly how.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 28 May 2021 21: 01
          +2
          I think she said that she works in the clinic in such a way that she hardly saw something like that.
          As for the young, I generally agree with you. Some clown will look at what will turn his carcass, think twice: do I need it?
    4. ecolog
      ecolog 5 August 2021 19: 20
      0
      there is something unhealthy about it.
      With respect.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 28 May 2021 18: 19
    +7
    This cartridge fired a 9,1 mm caliber bullet and weighing 13 g at a speed of 635 m / s per second, which was more than enough to pierce through the steel bodies of the then cars.
    This is still more than enough for the body of a modern car ...
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 28 May 2021 18: 28
      +9
      Modern cars are really "cans".
      Eighty years ago (and our "constipation" too) was made of steel XNUMX mm thick.
      And some models are even thicker.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 28 May 2021 18: 44
        +8
        Eighty years ago (and our "constipation" too) was made of steel XNUMX mm thick.
        on this model 410, more than 1 mm., body, in his youth almost took it on the cheap, from a neighbor in the garage sector, grandfather was selling in almost perfect condition and with a normal engine, while he was thinking what to turn it into
        .., and the owner of that .. did not take it, now I regret it ... crying
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 28 May 2021 19: 34
        +5
        Even the 21st had a powerful body, and those cars did
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 18: 31
      +12
      This is still more than enough for the body of a modern car ...


      Yes, now they are generally made of cardboard, but then at least serious iron went on them. laughing As a child, I saw in Vilnius how a man on the wing of a captured Horch used a hammer to straighten nails - this is a machine, and it was not an army model.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 28 May 2021 18: 36
        +7
        Yes, now they are generally made of cardboard, but then at least serious iron went on them
        Konstantin, welcome! hi
        Hmm, they did it before .., but now management, sales and advertising, everywhere:
        1) The thickness of the metal from the factory on the VAZ-2101 car was: from 0,7 mm to 1 mm. The rear fenders, trunk lid and hood were thin. Thicker were: bottom and sills;
        2) The thickness of the metal on LADA Granta, Vesta, and in general all modern cars produced by AvtoVAZ: from 0,6 mm to 0,8 mm.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 May 2021 18: 47
          +7
          Hi Denis! hi
          So I say. smile Can you imagine the collision of that very "Horch" with any modern passenger car? Personally, I would prefer to sit in the Horch. laughing
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 28 May 2021 18: 55
            +5
            Can you imagine the collision of that very "Horch" with any modern passenger car?
            Well, most likely ...:
            what
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 28 May 2021 19: 00
              +8
              Well yes! So if there is no armored car, then something retro is better. smile
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 28 May 2021 19: 25
                +4
                Well, maybe not quite retro, I'm thinking about the next personal car, I like this model with a frame, only a large-displacement engine, you have to think about what to change - up to 2,4 / 2,6 liters:

                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 19: 36
                  +3
                  What kind of model? The frame is great, but what about the iron?
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 28 May 2021 21: 36
                    +3
                    What kind of model?

                    Chevrolet SSR LS, engine: VORTEC 5300 V8 SFI (so I'm thinking of replacing it with a smaller volume, otherwise it eats a lot, infection .., produces 300 hp of power and 441 Nm. Of traction. With an automatic, four-speed gearbox, such a machine gains a hundred for 7.7.c.
                    In 2005, they plugged in the LS2 engine from the Chevrolet Corvette C6. With a displacement of 6.0 liters, this V8 produces 390 hp and 549 Nm. traction. Powered by an LS2 engine, the SSR is able to accelerate to 100 km / h in just 5 seconds), and at the heart of this body is a Trailblazer frame (made by hydroforming), a front suspension made of Camaro components, and a Corvette! In a racing fashion, the rear wheels are not only wider than the front ones, but also larger in diameter: 255/45 R19, versus: 295/40 R20,
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 39
                      +3
                      I understand that this is something like a pickup truck, but what kind of drive?
                      1. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 21: 52
                        +3
                        that this is something like a pickup truck, and what kind of drive?
                        pickup convertible yes , the drive is rear, so I'm thinking of leaving the roof without cleaning, so that the volume of the body does not take up, there the elementary mechanism can be removed and welded tightly, I'm not for show-off stop , air conditioning is still available on board!
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 56
                        +2
                        Well, this is a master's business, but with a breeze you can ride with the window open. smile
                      3. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 10
                        +4
                        and with a breeze, you can ride with the window open.
                        In Russian California, they say: "Mexican air conditioner" ... the window is open in motion, at 40 degrees, Celsius! good My wife reminds me of this every time, I don't like letting cold air into the cabin from him, my knees begin to ache ...
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 20
                        +3
                        "Mexican air conditioner"? laughing Thank you, I'll take it on board. good
                      5. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 24
                        +2
                        Thank you, I'll take it on board.
                        It's my pleasure... hi
            2. CastroRuiz
              CastroRuiz 31 May 2021 20: 03
              0
              A montaneer's dream. :)
        2. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 29 May 2021 09: 16
          +1
          Quote: Intruder
          only a large displacement engine, you have to think about what to change

          Why change the engine when you can stick a sticker like this:

          And everyone will see that a successful person who can afford not to worry at all about the fuel consumption of his wheelbarrow.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 35
        +6
        So if there is no armored car,
        Uncle Kostya, do you still dream about tanks? laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 May 2021 19: 38
          +8
          No, I dream of a neighbor's "Horch" with four-wheel drive and a leather top, and his seats were also not wrapped in a rag.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 53
            +6
            It's funny
            And to me, "and the wife of the French ambassador." laughing
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 28 May 2021 19: 58
              +5
              I haven’t tried the wife of the French ambassador, I can’t say anything, but I rode this Horch in Vilnius, my friend’s father didn’t forbid to take a car, provided that we don’t go to the city, so we drove along country roads in the suburbs. And I already knew how to drive in an amateurish way, my father's chauffeurs taught, first at the "Victory", and then at the "ZiM" e.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 May 2021 20: 01
                +4
                I know a little about your mother. I'm embarrassed to ask about my father ...
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 04
                +3
                I'll write in a personal later. smile
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 May 2021 20: 07
                +3
                Well I will wait.
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 28 May 2021 21: 00
          +2
          And you share your dreams - a complete gentleman's set will be assembled.
        3. Intruder
          Intruder 28 May 2021 21: 27
          +4
          "and the wife of the French ambassador"
          And I dream of mine when on a business trip wink, and the wives of the ambassadors, eh ... have not been removed for a long time ... laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 21: 47
            +4
            Judging by the "avatar", business trips to Schiaparelli crater? laughing
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 00
            +5
            business trips to Schiaparelli Crater?
            As a child, I just dreamed of becoming a Soviet cosmonaut and so that our apples bloom on Mars, and not American drones fly ... but it didn't work out in fate, neither with apples, not with astronautics! bully
          3. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 22: 12
            +2
            Yes, good! I dreamed too. drinks
          4. Intruder
            Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 17
            +2
            About apples !? Or .., as there is above in the comments ??? (joke...) drinks
          5. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 22: 31
            +2
            About "The Long Way to Amalthea".
          6. Intruder
            Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 40
            +3
            About "The Long Way to Amalthea".
            well, not bad from the classics .. but my favorite: Pavlova - "Moonlight Rainbow"!
          7. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 22: 52
            +3
            Excellent dilogy! Especially the first part.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 28 May 2021 19: 37
    +5
    Kostya, hello. I would prefer :: "ZiM" - there was a real tank.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 19: 41
      +6
      Hello, Glory. hi
      "ZiM" is a whole bus smile , he was a staff member of his father. Good for everyone, but on the intersection all the bumps clings backwards, this car is only for the city.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 28 May 2021 20: 27
        +6
        Kostya, and at: "Horch" was wrong? "ZiM" I remember, an acquaintance came to the godfather in a "ZiM" and rolled me along a rural road.
        As I remember the conversation: there was no "native" engine and stood: "lawn". The speedometer seems to be junk. He drove at low speed. Approximately 25-30 km / h. Why is that? Perhaps he is already old, he is a participant in the Second World War
  • bk0010
    bk0010 28 May 2021 20: 06
    +8
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Can you imagine the collision of that very "Horch" with any modern passenger car?
    They told me about Pobeda: an accident, the cars looked intact, but inside - everyone was dead. By the way, in Mexico, taxi drivers loved our Volga for a thick body: minor accidents are frequent there, and when they collided with the Volga, the opponent hesitated.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 28 May 2021 20: 31
    +9
    So I’m talking. smile Can you imagine the collision of that very "Horch" with any modern passenger car? Personally, I would rather sit in Horch

    You have lost badly. Modern machines are specially designed with pre-programmed destruction zones. When collapsing, the body absorbs the impact energy, which makes it possible to save the lives of passengers under certain conditions.
    And "Horch", of course, will suffer less, but the passengers - soft-boiled. This car would not pass a single crash test today.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 45
      +8
      This car would not pass a single crash test today.

      But she went through the whole war and lived to the sixties. request

      Hello Victor. hi
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 May 2021 20: 51
        +9
        Hello, Konstantin!
        Times change, concepts change. It is unlikely that such "longevity" will comfort passengers in the event of a collision. And the fact that this car has survived is solely due to a favorable coincidence of circumstances. If you create modern out-of-garage storage conditions for him with driving on saline winter solutions, he will rot in a year, regardless of the thickness of the metal.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 06
          +3
          Most likely you are right, but I am not a motorist, I never had my own car, so I cannot judge myself. smile
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 28 May 2021 21: 15
            +4
            And I had to work in the automotive industry, including the homologation of cars in different countries.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 21: 54
      +4
      Modern machines are specially designed with pre-programmed destruction zones. When collapsing, the body absorbs the impact energy, which makes it possible to save the lives of passengers under certain conditions.
      Brakes and parachutes - cowards were invented, they do not save fate from evil fate, even pillows and catapults ... hi
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 May 2021 22: 06
        +5
        Brakes and parachutes - cowards were invented, they do not save fate from evil fate, even pillows and catapults ...

        What people usually call fate is, in essence, just a set of stupidities they have committed.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 23
          +2
          What people usually call fate is, in essence, just a set of stupidities they have committed.

          We are prisoners of a common and dark fate between the whirlwinds of the Universal blizzard, And our heroes are just slaves, the myth has ideas and goals.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 28 May 2021 22: 32
            +6
            Between Hubermann and Schopenhauer, I am on the latter's side.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 38
              +1
              Huberman and Schopenhauer, I am on the side of the latter
              For an amateur, both ... I like it, one Roman politician
              A person should not be afraid of death, he should be afraid never to start living ...
              I remember when it strongly props up ... in life !!!
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 22: 23
        +3
        Uh-huh. When I found out that in connection with the pandemic people began to wash their hands more often, I thought: what should happen to start turning on the "turn signals" ???
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 28
          +3
          I thought: what should happen to start turning on the "turn signals" ???

          Well .., this is already something of the beyond ... and very Dark and Terrible !!! drinks
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 22: 46
            +2
            So it became creepy for me. From your own greatness. Where am I (!!!), and where is some Stephen King! negative laughing
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 48
              +2
              From your own greatness. Where am I (!!!), and where is some Stephen King!
              But it's better, all the same, just turn on the "turn signals" before the maneuver, otherwise it will be ... like you plus with King ... crying
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 May 2021 23: 12
                +2
                I turn it on. The incident here was unpleasant at the end of February. In the left lane, I caught a curb with liquid mud, well, and carried me to the right through the lane ... I managed with the "Euro-protocol", but having already turned off the "emergency gang", I found the right turn signal turned on.
              2. Intruder
                Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 20
                +1
                In the left lane I caught a curb with liquid mud, well, and carried me to the right through the lane
                Well, it happens ... what else can I say! recourse
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 May 2021 23: 31
                +1
                It happens, of course. But to be honest, I don't remember such disgusting work of "snowkillers" as this winter.
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 28 May 2021 23: 27
      +1
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Uh-huh. When I found out that in connection with the pandemic people began to wash their hands more often, I thought: what should happen to start turning on the "turn signals" ???

      In Soviet times, everything was turned on. Obviously, the collapse of the USSR happened, a catastrophe enough to stop. Perhaps the restoration of the USSR will force it to be turned on.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 23: 39
        0
        During the Soviet era, there were no hydraulic boosters. That's all, shifting hands on the steering wheel, inadvertently, and turned on.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 28 May 2021 20: 28
    +4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    the man on the wing of the captured "Horch" with a hammer straightened the nails
    Also say that even the paintwork is not damaged. wassat
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 44
      +4
      His car went through the whole war and was painted and repainted a hundred times, so I won't say anything about the varnish.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 28 May 2021 21: 59
        +4
        Now such a Horch, if suitable for restoration to the original, can cost tens of thousands of dollars.
      2. your1970
        your1970 1 June 2021 07: 24
        0
        I was with a relative of the "Opel-Captain" (as he called it) - he periodically, once a year, painted it with a brush in green ...
        He said that the pre-war, he was given as the head of the mine in 1950.
        A relative died 40 years ago - and the Opel was dragged to the backyard and 5 years ago it was still alive
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 1 June 2021 17: 04
          0
          Refurbish, it's worth it. smile
          1. your1970
            your1970 1 June 2021 23: 39
            +1
            Are you serious? There will be a lot of money to invest - for a start + a bunch of non-native hardware / equipment + time ...
            Don't pull ....
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 1 June 2021 23: 40
              +1
              It's a pity, but for this, of course, you need both funds and a workshop, but then everything will pay off.
              1. your1970
                your1970 1 June 2021 23: 58
                +1
                For me, investments of the level of 2-3-5 pieces of bucks will no longer pay off - my wife will dig in a row with Opel lol right there on the spot - in the backyard ...

                And I'm not sure that he was not cut into metal yet
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 2 June 2021 00: 03
                  +1
                  Clear. smile Well, good luck.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 28 May 2021 18: 20
    +5
    To the author, bravo ... great article !!! good
  • hohol95
    hohol95 28 May 2021 18: 34
    +7
    But the army or the USMC was not interested in such weapons?
    The cartridges were of the wrong system? Or was it based on the unit price?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 18: 58
      +5
      Hi Aleksey! hi
      They (the army) already had a self-loading "Garand M1" and there was no need to change an awl for soap, but they knew how to count money.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 30
        +6
        and they knew how to count money.
        This is the whole point. There was a more successful development, but the "guarantor" joined the "stream".
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 May 2021 19: 34
          +4
          Hello Anton! smile
          What kind of development do you mean?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 48
            +6
            I do not remember. Shpakovsky wrote in a series about rifles. There was a model, on the eve of the war, better than a "guaranty", but did not go to the troops.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 14
              +4
              A Johnson M1941 case?
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 28 May 2021 22: 47
                +8
                The competitor to the .30 Garand, which is known as the M1 Garand, was the .276 Garand, which won by clear advantage.

                However, the War Department, referring to the fact that there is a very large stock of. 30, banned work on the .276 Garand and the .30 Garand went into production.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 59
                  +4
                  Garand competed with Garand - he lost to himself and won from himself. Well, America ... request
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 28 May 2021 19: 46
          +6
          "Garand" started up in 1936. And the M8 with 15 cartridge "horn" was already in 1934. Rather, it was in the cartridge and the ability of the design to withstand its power.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 20: 10
            +3
            There is generally a different model, from a different manufacturer. Alas, I don’t remember.
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 28 May 2021 20: 09
        +2
        Kostya, Kostya, I don't know much about the performance characteristics of Garand. Looks like 32 caliber, 10 rounds magazine? Have the GXNUMX also used a rifle cartridge?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 39
          +7
          About Garand: Cartridge .30-06 Springfield (7,62 × 63mm)
          .276 Pedersen
          7,62 × 51 mm NATO post-war use by the US Navy
          Caliber mm 7,62
          Loading - a pack of eight rounds.


          About cartridges for the "eight: today this ammunition is denoted by different names: .35 Remington, 9x48 Browning, 9x49 mm. This cartridge has a high stopping effect, but low speed and, therefore, was only suitable for firing at short distances, up to about 150 m .To bring the rifle's aiming range closer to the "military models", later Remington Model 8 rifles were released .32 (8 mm), .30 (7, 62 mm) and even .25 (6,35 mm ) calibers.

          Shop for the "eight.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 28 May 2021 20: 56
            +4
            Kostya, I'm not a gunsmith, but a "teapot" and I could be wrong.
            So I remember approximately from Two: the 32nd is 7,62,38th is 9 mm. Where is my Beetle, I do not remember, somewhere is, but in Vick to climb into the "scrap"
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 41
              +1
              I have a Beetle lying next to me, but also poking around in scrap. smile
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 28 May 2021 21: 36
            +2
            And 7,62 for how long is the sleeve?
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 40
              +3
              Alexey, frankly, is too lazy to go looking, but I don’t remember. request
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 28 May 2021 21: 42
                +5
                Laziness is the engine of PROGRESS.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 47
                  +5
                  A clear stump, so the wheel was born. laughing
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 19
                    +3
                    so the wheel was born.
                    and even a throwing one with a firearm, just for all sorts of lazy, and then still run after the thief through the bushes and if, chop and cut him screaming all over the neighborhood !? laughing
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 30
                      +3
                      That is what the Pope once banned the crossbow. laughing
                      1. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 34
                        +3
                        at one time the crossbow banned
                        exactly, a fitness lover was visible!? ... wink
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 36
                        +3
                        Probably, or maybe he just didn't want to breed lazy people. yes
                      3. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 50
                        +3
                        maybe he just didn't want to breed lazy people. yes
                        or tried to optimize medieval health care, in the controlled territory ... and then all sorts of cholera, etc.!?
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 01
                        +2
                        Or maybe Mom just got him, Roman, of course, and he took his soul away with the unfortunate crossbowmen? wassat laughing
                      5. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 09
                        +3
                        Or maybe Mom just got him, Roman, of course, and he took his soul away with the unfortunate crossbowmen?
                        Well, I don’t know how their family hearth was doing, laughing but the fact that he humiliated my former colleagues is already a historical fact, he parted with his crossbow last year ... so to speak, he closed the personal page of this story, now the lazy firearm is only ... good
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 21
                        +2
                        And I didn’t dabble in a crossbow, it didn’t work out somehow. All my life with a firearm. smile
                      7. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 35
                        +2
                        And I didn’t dabble in a crossbow, it didn’t work out somehow
                        and I even tried to hunt with him, on a small ungulate, only this is a troublesome business and there may not be a second attempt, it's good when there is a second number, do it ... until you find it ... you will lose it in a day !!! And the adjustment of the shoulders, especially if the blocker, and the recursive with its own specifics ... it takes a lot of time if you do everything yourself, even from books!
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 44
                        +3
                        In general, I have not gone to the shots for a long time, the shooting range is far away, there are cops on the roads, in the forest there are huntsmen. So I sit back at the computer. request
                      9. Intruder
                        Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 46
                        +3
                        In general, I have not gone to the shots for a long time, the shooting range is far away, in the forest of the huntsmen. So I sit back at the computer.
                        No, I'm getting out! Even on last year's lock-down, I went to nature in compliance with safety measures, of course, I shot at my own targets ...
                      10. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 56
                        +2
                        A happy man, not long ago the guys and I were doing this too, but now we have tightened all the screws, and the shooting range, as I said, is far away, you can't get there on a quad, again, the cops. request
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 52
                    +3
                    A post-graduate student used to hunt from a bow.
                    Then he made bows on a professional basis.
                  3. Intruder
                    Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 58
                    +1
                    A post-graduate student used to hunt from a bow.
                    And how does it feel !? winked
                  4. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 29 May 2021 00: 06
                    +3
                    He is different from the average person. He took his wife and three children with him to the forest. And capable of feeding.
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 30 May 2021 22: 08
          +3
          Perhaps ... But Innoentius II forbade the use of the crossbow and bow by Christians against Christians. But against all sorts of eritics and various non-Christians there, it was not forbidden to use such a thing!
        3. Catfish
          Catfish 30 May 2021 22: 10
          +1
          You could just as well have prohibited your flock from intercourse. laughing
        4. hohol95
          hohol95 30 May 2021 22: 12
          +1
          Until 1987, Iceland had a "communication day". The television did not work ... Those born before 1987 were joking - they were conceived on Thursday!
        5. Catfish
          Catfish 30 May 2021 22: 15
          0
          Funny, I haven't heard of it. smile
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 30 May 2021 22: 15
        +2
        At the same time, Catholic monks and priests in the German lands drank beer during the post - beer was not recognized as alcohol! They called him - BREAD WATER!
      4. Catfish
        Catfish 30 May 2021 22: 16
        +1
        And here vodka was called "bread wine".
      5. hohol95
        hohol95 30 May 2021 22: 18
        +2
        But still - with wine ... And in fasting there are only certain days for drinking wine. And the Germans whipped beer daily and in large quantities.
      6. Catfish
        Catfish 30 May 2021 22: 20
        +1
        You can’t forbid to live beautifully. laughing drinks
  • hohol95
    hohol95 28 May 2021 21: 41
    +3
    The Americans had a rifle cartridge with probably the longest case. 63mm against Russians 54. Finns shortened to 51.
    The Germans have 57. French Lebel -50.
    1. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 31 May 2021 16: 45
      +1
      The problem with the quality of gunpowder and barrel steel, in fact. That is why the first version of the cartridge - Cartridge, ball, caliber .30, М1906 gave out on a standard 610-mm barrel length ndul energy of only 3200 Joules.
      The .30 M1 ball of the 1926 model already delivered a muzzle energy of 3600 Joules (similar to the muzzle energy of the later 7,62x51mm NATO cartridge) on the same barrel.
  • Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 31 May 2021 16: 39
    +1
    But the army or the USMC was not interested in such weapons?
    The cartridges were of the wrong system?

    And why did the army have a self-loading rifle with an effective firing range of 150-200 meters, while weighing 3,6 kilograms (for comparison, the M1903 Springfield weighed 3,9 kg)?
    More precisely ... it's even more interesting here. As a result, weapons created according to a similar concept did find their niche in the armament system of the US Armed Forces. Now, of course, I'm talking about the M1 Carbine.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 31 May 2021 18: 07
      +1
      That's just the point - there is no trace of an attempt to alter it under the standard cartridge of the American army .30. It turns out that the design of the M8 itself was not designed for cartridges of such power. And already in the process of WWII, the Americans were looking for their own version of lightening self-loading weapons with a cartridge less powerful than a standard rifle.
      The Germans created their own Kurzpatron and a series of Sturgevers. Americans - Carbin M1.
  • Nikkon
    Nikkon 28 May 2021 18: 35
    +5
    Informative article. Interestingly, such a powerful ammunition as 35 Remington is used in hunting big game? Bullet 9 mm. weighing 13 g, flying at a speed of 635 m / s has an energy of more than 2600 J. Even at a distance of 100 meters from the place of the shot, it will have enough kinetic energy to knock the bear down.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 19: 00
      +5
      Bullet 9 mm. weighing 13 g, flying at a speed of 635 m / s has an energy of more than 2600 J. Even at a distance of 100 meters from the place of the shot, it will have enough kinetic energy to knock the bear down.
      It’s not a pity for Mishka that he did you bad things ... so that these - 2600 J. - flew into the carcass for him !? crying


      Bipedal and bipedal, more dangerous predators, in their anthill cities !!!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 28 May 2021 18: 55
    +9
    Vyacheslav hi , thanks for the unexpected joy! smile
    Even if you are staring at night, it is still nice, the article is, as always, at a high level, for which we are grateful to you. good
    I decided to shove in a couple of photos of the Remington Model 8., the rifle, indeed, is very good.


  • depressant
    depressant 28 May 2021 19: 04
    +4
    The M8 is the "Model 8".
    The birthday of the "Model 8" rifle is October 16, 1900. It was on this day that John Moses Browning received US patent N 659786 for a self-loading rifle, in which the automatics operated on the principle of a dyno stroke, that is, on the recoil of the barrel under the action of the recoil from the shot. Later, the M8 was sold as a development to the Remington company, which was the beginning of its mass production, starting in 1906.
    It was the world's first semi-automatic rifle! And among civilians it was a resounding success.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 03
      +7
      Good evening, Luda. smile
      For the sake of justice, we must remember the Mexican General Mondragon.
      The Mondragon rifle is the world's first self-loading rifle, developed in Mexico by General Manuel Mondragon. History. The development of the Mondragon rifle began in 1882, and was patented by him in 1887. Mondragon began work on the creation of rifles with manual reloading at the end of the 19th century, and until 1896 he patented the first self-loading rifle of his design for the original small-caliber high-power cartridge 5,2 × 68 by Major Eduard Rubin.
      During the First World War, these rifles, called "Fliegerselbstladekarabiner Model 1915" (FSK.15), a 1915 model light aviation carbine, were issued to the crews of German reconnaissance aircraft, airships and balloons. In Mexico, the rifle served until the early 1950s [2].
      1. depressant
        depressant 28 May 2021 20: 43
        +5
        Kostya, good evening! )))
        With the priority of justice - I agree! But, you see, the Americans did not agree with their powerful production of weapons products in comparison with Mexico)))
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 May 2021 20: 48
          +4
          And America before the First World War was just a rotten backwater, they didn't need it. But in Europe, among the Nemaki, the rifle went "with a bang."
          1. depressant
            depressant 28 May 2021 20: 58
            +3
            Is this rifle the M8? )))
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 07
              +3
              No, Mexican Mondragon smile
              1. depressant
                depressant 28 May 2021 21: 20
                +3
                Interesting ... Is it possible that Kehler and Koch have risen so high on the basis of this rifle over time? But it was formed in 1949.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 21: 34
                  +5
                  Luda, Heckler and Koch have absolutely nothing to do with it.
                  Since there was practically no arms industry in Mexico itself, the production of rifles was transferred to the Swiss company SIG, from which the Mexican army acquired them. But in 1911, purchases stopped, a revolution began in Mexico. After that, the SIG firm sold very cheaply a batch of 3 thousand rifles in Germany. These rifles were put into service with the German infantry as light machine guns, for which drum magazines for 30 rounds were developed.

                  1. deddem
                    deddem 28 May 2021 22: 07
                    +3
                    Evil tongues say that from Mondragon there is only a name, and the development itself is Saurer and Co.
                    As if there was a beautiful corruption scheme, where Mondragon ensured the victory of the system in the competition and received a kickback as an "author".

                    I don’t know how true it is in this case, but this is exactly the scheme he used with the Hotchkiss rapid-fire cannons.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 18
                      +1
                      Interestingly, I haven't heard anything about it. And what happened to the Hotchkiss?
                      1. deddem
                        deddem 28 May 2021 22: 50
                        +3
                        A classic of Latin American gun corruption.

                        Sequence of events:
                        1) the Saint-Chamond company, a subsidiary of the Hotchkiss corporation, is developing a 75-mm light rapid-fire field gun (general designer - Emile Rimayo)
                        2) Mexico announces a competition for a 75 mm rapid-fire field gun with very similar characteristics
                        3) Colonel Mondragon, Assistant Inspector of Artillery of Mexico, registers a patent for a 75-mm rapid-fire (in fact - the Saint-Chamond cannon with cosmetic changes)
                        4) this patented system wins a crushing victory in the competition, as the only "national" model, and not inferior to other competitors
                        5) since there is nowhere to produce it in Mexico, a competition is announced for the production of the system, at a fixed price, with a strict delivery time limit
                        6) Saint-Chamond wins in this competition, because even if the price is attractive to many, no one else has _ ready_ production equipment
                        7) Colonel Mondragon receives patent royalties from each gun, and after a few years he receives the rank of general and the position of inspector of artillery.

                        However, I didn’t finish very well: decisiveness in shooting rioters sometimes badly affects popularity.
                        Yes, and the execution of political opponents is best heralded as a "tragic accident", without being smeared personally.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 58
                        +2
                        Great story, thank you! good And how did the gallant general finish, did the guerillas really screw up?
                      3. deddem
                        deddem 29 May 2021 21: 40
                        +2
                        No, his dictator Victoriano Huerta, who was enthroned by him, pushed him into exile in Spain, like a toxic asset, head over heels in his blood.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 29 May 2021 21: 42
                        0
                        Well, on Huerth's part, it is quite a prudent move.
            2. depressant
              depressant 28 May 2021 22: 07
              +4
              And Germany bought it?
              But they had their own M-88 rifle, which was put into service in 1888, and in 1905 and 1914. two modifications were carried out, Gewehr 88/05 and Gewehr 88/14. In addition, China released an unlicensed copy under the designation Hanyang 88 (here I fell out - I had a clear idea that China at that time was just a hole and could not release anything). The rifle was produced by Ludwig Loewe, Haenel, Steyr-Mannlicher, Imperial Arsenals of Amberg, Danzig, Erfurt, and Spandau, Hanyang Arsenal. A feature of the rifle was the magazine, which was loaded with a pack of cartridges. During firing, a pack of cartridges was in the store until the last cartridge, after which it fell out through the hole in the lower part of the store. This made reloading faster.
              So why did the Swiss buy what they themselves had?
              But I mentioned Kehler and Koch just because they undertook to modify the descendants of M8)))
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 27
                +2
                These rifles, unlike the Mondragon, were not self-loading, ordinary bolt-action screws.
                Gewehr 1888
                1. depressant
                  depressant 28 May 2021 22: 39
                  +2
                  That is, it was necessary to juggle?
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 22: 50
                  +3
                  Well, yes, reloading was done manually. As on the Three Line.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 28 May 2021 20: 41
    +9
    It was the world's first semi-automatic rifle! And among civilians it was a resounding success.

    Oh, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I did not notice such a craving for militarism in you before.
    This was not the world's first semi-automatic rifle.
    It was the world's first commercially successful semi-automatic rifle.
    And the world's first semi-automatic rifle, the automation of which worked on the principle of barrel recoil with its long stroke, was developed by Ferdinand Mannlicher in 1885.

    Unfortunately, the black powder cartridges did not allow the rifle to go beyond the prototypes, and the military then did not at all seek to acquire rapid-fire rifles.
    1. depressant
      depressant 28 May 2021 20: 56
      +5
      Viktor Nikolaevich, you just haven't read all my comments. I am still a militarist! wassat )))
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 May 2021 21: 22
        +5
        Yes? Wow.
        A woman's heart is a dark book; no matter how you read it or reread it in various and numerous editions, you will never finish reading everything.
        1. depressant
          depressant 28 May 2021 21: 52
          +5
          I am the dark water in the clouds ...
          "And he made the darkness his cover, the darkness around him, the darkness of the waters, the clouds of the air."
          Yeah)))
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 03
          +4
          A woman's heart is a dark book; no matter how you read it or reread it in various and numerous editions, you will never finish reading everything.
          Precisely, after two volumes with King's nightmares, I settled on lyric poetry with the third !!! yes
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 26
            +4
            So the experience is worth something. Although, there is an opinion that the water on different sides of the boat is the same.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 30
              +4
              Although, there is an opinion that the water on different sides of the boat is the same.
              taste, as well as felt-tip pens !!! lol
        3. Korsar4
          Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 24
          +4
          Multivolume.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 31
            +5
            Multivolume.
            Loved to read different books before repeat , although the horrors are in my fifties, I can't stand it anymore .., my heart is clearly worn out! yes
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 36
              +5
              As the doctor summed up from the "Formula of Love": "And our business ... sit in the sun, bask."
              1. depressant
                depressant 28 May 2021 22: 51
                +2
                Yes, in the fifth ten - a young man!
                The times are now such that you were born, and you already need a doctor: either the syndrome of distracted attention, or hyperactivity. Both are falling out of reality, bad times. So the generation of those who are in their fifties is the healthiest and most viable one.
                1. Intruder
                  Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 59
                  +2
                  Yes, in the fifth ten - a young man!
                  Madam, my respect to you !!! hi
                  Both are falling out of reality, bad times.
                  This happens, one of my nephews has fallen out of reality for 4 months ... he does not talk to me, I tried to return him (using my heavy right hand a little ...), but apparently it’s not destiny ... to come back like that , into our reality! what
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 28 May 2021 23: 12
                    +1
                    Dear colleague Intruder, I see strange children all the time! She wanted to help one mother: she speaks to the child, but he does not answer her, does not pay attention to her, is not angry, not offended, just busy with his own. I spoke to him, but he paid no attention to me either. The boy is 4 years old, his mother said that he knows only a few words. And all the children cry a lot for some reason. Somehow I don’t remember from my childhood that my generation roared so amicably and a lot, literally choking on tears.
                    1. Intruder
                      Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 24
                      +1
                      I see strange children all the time!
                      There is, this ... there are, still strongly in the "fifth point" kissed in the sphere: overprotection of others from childhood, and then such a body - 116 kg. weight, at the age of 16, begins to show his character, in front of the uncle in his house ... and then he is surprised that he has little "steel" somewhere ... below lol !!!
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 03
                  +2
                  Fifth decade ... Kindergarten, pants with straps. laughing
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 15
                    +2
                    Kindergarten, pants on the straps.
                    Precisely, when you feel yourself at the age of 19 inside ... and so, sometimes with one eye and with a smile on young animals! wink
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 23
                      +1
                      Eh, where are my seventeen years ... smile
                3. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 09
                  +2
                  Kukin has a song:

                  “And then you start to descend,
                  Weighing each step carefully.
                  50 is kind of like 20.
                  Well, 70 is kind of like 10 "(c).
              2. Intruder
                Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 52
                +3
                "And our business ... sit in the sun, bask."
                Well, it is possible with a book, is it even more interesting, stroking it on the left side of the hardcover !? laughing
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 04
                  +2
                  Occasionally distracted from stroking, in order to take a bottle of cold beer in this hand. wink
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 10
                    +3
                    "Now I am the Pope and the Sultan" (c).
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 25
                      +3
                      "If I were a sultan and had three wives ..." (c)

                      Most likely, he would have hanged himself. wassat
                    2. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 29
                      +3
                      During the last year's coronavirus confinement, the Network gave out fragments from the life of Suleiman the Magnificent. There is a lot to learn. But this is brought up from childhood. And it doesn't always end well.
                    3. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 42
                      +3
                      Did not see. And why was this Suleiman so magnificent that he earned the personal attention of the Network?

                      "- Abdula, you have affectionate wives, I feel good with them."
                      - Now I will light oil, and you will be very good. "(C)

                      Anything about this?
                    4. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 46
                      +3
                      Long series "The Magnificent Century". There is a lot of nonsense, but there are interesting moments (as far as I can judge from the excerpts).
                    5. Catfish
                      Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 53
                      +3
                      I don’t watch TV shows at all, and new films are not very good either. I put something from antiquity in the mood. New several times tried to look - it does not cling.
                    6. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 29 May 2021 00: 03
                      +2
                      Now I have you and Anton as sources of recommendations. By the way, I read The Sea Eagle. Thank you.

                      But "Carmen" on a tip from Lexus and did not finish. Although I like it at first.

                      “Liquidation” still deserves attention.
                    7. Catfish
                      Catfish 29 May 2021 00: 04
                      +2
                      "Elimination", I hope, not a series?

                      By the way, how do you like "Eagle"?
                    8. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 29 May 2021 00: 09
                      +3
                      Series. Got me 5 years ago. I didn’t drop it.
                      I pushed myself away from the songs of Polina Agureeva.

                      Eagle is very good. Deserves careful re-reading.
                    9. Catfish
                      Catfish 29 May 2021 00: 55
                      +2
                      I'll try to see if it works.

                      And I re-read "The Eagle" several times. We shot a film in 1963 "The End and Beginning" just about the same time and the capture of Crete by the Germans. But not for this book. I liked the film very much, it was shot by a Greek director. Try to find and see.
                    10. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 29 May 2021 05: 51
                      +2
                      Didn't think that the name of the film could be different. It's more difficult with the film.

                      "He will try" (c).
                    11. Catfish
                      Catfish 29 May 2021 14: 48
                      +1
                      Sergei, the film is not based on Eagle, but the time and place are the same.

                      At night I started watching "Liquidation" and immediately captured it, thanks for the tip. smile
                    12. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 29 May 2021 14: 53
                      +2
                      Still, they can. And it was the same with me. True, all the conditions were met.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 53
      +2
      And why was this Suleiman so magnificent that he received the personal attention of the Network?
      The type is stereotyped, or ...!?
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 29 May 2021 00: 02
      +3
      These "sultans" are more to my liking. smile
  • Intruder
    Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 40
    +4
    Most likely I would have hung myself
    well, I somehow survived these unequal battles, although the ending of the second volume reminded me of the Kursk Bulge at the age of 4 and three years of Vietnam after ... wink Only last year, I learned to perceive and remember the past with a smile ... readings !!!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 59
    +3
    No, I have never lived with more than one woman in my entire life, but with some it was enough, however, for the most part I was lucky with them. smile
  • Intruder
    Intruder 29 May 2021 00: 02
    +3
    but with some it was enough, however, for the most part I was lucky with them.
    Duc, and I was lucky, if not a union love - then long bloody battles ... but then I realized ... that luck has different potentials ... wassat
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 May 2021 00: 03
    +3
    ... luck has different potentials ...

    That's for sure. smile
  • Intruder
    Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 13
    +3
    Occasionally distracted from stroking, in order to take a bottle of cold beer in this hand
    and I go down to the basement (I exchanged beer here for juices and mineral, I follow the carbohydrates), there I pull all sorts of pieces of iron and make it quietly, while my august "volume" flutters around the kitchen, or bakes pies in the evening on weekends!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 May 2021 23: 25
      +4
      I, too, have already drunk my barrel of beer; request
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 10
    +3
    Apparently - an expert.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 43
      +2
      Apparently - an expert.
      simple, humble connoisseur of beauty and elasticity ... laughing
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 16
    +6
    And especially after Hillard also proved to the head of the local police that they would shoot even at 30 degrees below zero.
    If we consider that the Americans at that time used the Fahrenheit scale to determine the temperature, then the result does not seem to be a technical achievement: -1,1 Celsius.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first 28 May 2021 19: 32
      +5
      We counted a little incorrectly. Not + 30 ... but -30 Fahrenheit: (-30 ° F - 32) × 5/9 = -34,44 ° C
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 19: 42
        +4
        Yes, I messed up "not childishly"! repeat crying
        On the other hand, I'm a jester, what can I get from a fool? wassat
        On the third, where is Missouri, and where is -35 Celsius?
        1. depressant
          depressant 28 May 2021 20: 01
          +4
          Anton, who doesn't care about Fahrenheit and Celsius! And also with miles and kilometers, feet and pounds there are some))))
          The cans were shot with frozen tomatoes. I don't think the experiment is clean wassat
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 28 May 2021 20: 38
            +3
            And what to replace the tomato with.

            When in high school we were taken to the nearest fields to harvest, the girls in the school bus sang:
            "America, America, tomato juice" (c).
            1. depressant
              depressant 28 May 2021 20: 46
              +4
              I suppose the experiment should have been carried out in the Arctic - there the rifle is cold, and the air, and the target, all three test factors under the same conditions)))
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 28 May 2021 21: 13
                +2
                I agree: it would be interesting to see both the rifle and the southerner in the Arctic. I'm afraid that the southerner shooter will turn into an icicle
                1. depressant
                  depressant 28 May 2021 21: 42
                  +2
                  So judge for yourself, Svyatoslav.
                  We tested a bunch of weapons in Syria - one that proved to be excellent in mid-latitudes, that is, at Russian training grounds. And in Syria it failed. Because the heat, the finest dust suspension, and just sand, different atmospheric pressure, humidity. Therefore, it was not necessary to shoot at a can of frozen tomatoes, but to test the weapon in real frost conditions. But who in those days really thought about such things. However, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the experience of using depending on the climate has already been.
                  By the way, electronic products are very sensitive to climate.
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 28 May 2021 22: 07
                    +2
                    By the way, electronic products are very sensitive to climate.
                    without thermoregulation and waterproofing, very much ...
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 May 2021 20: 40
            +3
            I don't think the experiment is clean
            So I think it's better - by "blacks"
            1. depressant
              depressant 28 May 2021 20: 52
              +4
              Well, Anton, you and your thinking do not fit into the modern Western ideology of universal tolerance wassat
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 May 2021 21: 05
                +3
                What to do, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! request The "white man's burden" weighs on my mind ...
                1. depressant
                  depressant 28 May 2021 21: 13
                  +3
                  It, this burden, comfortably places you in that dimension, which probably all white men in America dream of getting into, but so far they are only hoarding their dream in reserve. But when it accumulates ... It will be interesting to read the news wassat ))))
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 28 May 2021 21: 21
                    +3
                    I, unlike most white men in America, read Farnham Freehold.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 28 May 2021 21: 48
                      +2
                      I'm not a white Russian man, and maybe that's why I haven't read Farnham Freehold. As the name suggests, this is a farm where the owner freed the black slaves, and they ... Um ... I can't even imagine. Any horror?
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 28 May 2021 21: 55
                        +3
                        Robert Heinlein, classic of American fiction.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 28 May 2021 22: 25
                        +2
                        I heard about this, but did not read it. I am ashamed of my ignorance. We'll have to postpone rereading the Strugatskys and plunge into the creation of the classic you are proposing. It's difficult. You need to overcome yourself. When someone offers me something, I experience a state of strong inner resistance. Probably, the subconscious, trained by life experience, suggests that something is being imposed on me to the detriment of me. You can't live like that! wassat )))
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 28 May 2021 22: 02
                      +2
                      white russian man
                      Russian is not a nationality or skin color. Russian is a state of mind.
                2. vladcub
                  vladcub 29 May 2021 05: 59
                  0
                  I wish I could read this
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 28 May 2021 21: 55
                +2
                "To the service of the half-wild
                Gloomy tribes "(c).
                1. depressant
                  depressant 28 May 2021 22: 32
                  +2
                  Sergei ... Well, you know how to say it! Laughed for a long time))) I liked this - "gloomy". It seems that Anton is ready to take up his duties. I don't seem to. Even though I am white, but the burden is something of a white man. And I still cannot solve the question: is a woman a man?
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 May 2021 22: 39
                    +2
                    Why did the quote from Kipling make you laugh?
                    And what kind of neighborhood fell out - nothing can be done.

                    But, to be honest, yes - I can be a master of artistic words.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 28 May 2021 23: 00
                      +2
                      Not so much a quote as a contrast to Anton's remark. Doom for "gloomy" tribes. Why have you doomed yourself?)))
                      On occasion, I put them, the tribes, in their place. Were put! And doom leads to the fact that they put the doomed in their place. Which is what happens.
                    2. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 13
                      +2
                      If Kipling's lines respond, we can still fight and achieve good luck. No matter how pretentious it sounds.
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 28 May 2021 23: 15
                    +2
                    yes - I can be a master of artistic words.
                    "Damn smart and terribly humble"
                  3. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 19
                    +3
                    But at least on Friday night you can.
                    Whoever wishes can dispute. I will listen.
                  4. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 28 May 2021 23: 24
                    +3
                    Who wants to - can listen,
                    Who does not want - I will dispute.
                  5. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 26
                    +3
                    Yeah. And the uttered maxims should be written down as homework.
                  6. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 28 May 2021 23: 45
                    +3
                    "I did it - write it down, I didn't do it - write it down twice" (C)
                    So one traumatologist told me, remembering how he was taught the profession.
                  7. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 May 2021 23: 50
                    +3
                    This is familiar. Can not argue with that.
                    Again, you can't hide from crazy work programs.

                    But every job has its own pitfalls.
          3. Intruder
            Intruder 29 May 2021 00: 17
            +2
            Devilishly smart and terribly humble. "

            I hate Life - I am fighting in it!
            I hate Death - I will disappear into it,
            But I love Them - in themselves, not so much without interest !?
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 28
        +1
        And I still cannot solve the question: is a woman a man?
        Madam, is there really a problem with that !? lol
        1. depressant
          depressant 29 May 2021 08: 38
          +2
          They were created up the branch by doubting my absolute superiority and exclusivity. wassat )))))))
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 29 May 2021 08: 44
          +1
          in my absolute excellence and exclusivity
          well, it also happens ... love
  • bubalik
    bubalik 28 May 2021 23: 09
    +3
    which is better - on "blacks"
    good +++ good answer.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 28 May 2021 21: 51
    +4
    However, some American measures may differ from generally accepted ones. For example, the Americans "lowered" the altitude of the spacewalk for their spacecraft. And what is considered by everyone to be a layer of the atmosphere, then they already have a near-earth orbit.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 23: 57
      +1
      For example, the Americans "lowered" the altitude of the spacewalk for their spacecraft.
      What's better !? To raise it to the orbit of the Moon, so the thermosphere enters the layers of the Earth's atmosphere and the ISS is located there ... drinks
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 May 2021 19: 21
    +4
    And members of the forum express their gratitude to the author! hi You know how to present the material so that the novel reads! And what about the accuracy and range of the M8? Was it possible not to put, in theory, a telescopic sight, and what about the accuracy of the successes?
    1. kalibr
      30 May 2021 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      Was it possible not to put, in theory, a telescopic sight, and what about the accuracy of the successes?

      Thank you. But I cannot answer your question 100%. Optical sights were rare then. It was easier to buy a Tommy-gun than such a sight. And the accuracy ... those authors that I read about it were not. Well, everyone praises the gun.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 28 May 2021 19: 45
    +2
    "she fell shot through" Hilad was a good shooter, but what if he was a mediocre shooter?
  • depressant
    depressant 28 May 2021 19: 55
    +1
    But the years passed, decades passed, the weapon thought did not stand still, and now the assault automatic rifle began to be called the assault complex, on which a lot of fancy things were done.
    The German company Heckler & Koch became the best manufacturer of assault automatic systems.
    Together with this company, the American weapons ATK (Alliant Techsystems) based on the HK G36 has developed the now distant descendant of the semi-automatic M8, namely the XM8 assault complex, to replace the M16 and M4A1 assault rifles, compared with which it has less weight and greater reliability. Using new chucks with a lightweight composite reinforced plastic sleeve, the XM8 achieves 20% weight savings over the M16.
    The peculiarity of the "descendant" in comparison with the indicated previous modifications consists in the automation with a short stroke of the gas piston located above the barrel, and locking by turning the bolt, which has 7 lugs. Receiver and forend are made of high-strength plastic. The buttstock is a five-position telescopic adjustable in length, easily removable, also made of plastic. Above the pistol grip is a double-sided fuse-translator of fire modes, which allows firing single shots and continuous bursts. The barrel has increased survivability - (more than 20 rounds). The modular configuration allows the use of barrels of various lengths, adapting the weapon to specific conditions.

    The start of production of this weapon was scheduled for about 2006. In 2004, the assault rifles underwent extensive testing in the US military, earning positive reviews. Despite this, in October 2005 the project was officially closed. At the same time, based on the press releases of the American branch of the manufacturer (January 2011), it can be concluded that the project, in one form or another, will continue.
    In the yard 2021 year.
    But no information can be found about whether the XM8 is manufactured in the United States. It looks like Heckler & Koch has supplanted the XM8 with its own assault complex, which is considered the best in the world.
  • bk0010
    bk0010 28 May 2021 20: 01
    +3
    What a fine fellow Hillard: he correctly promoted the rifle, not show-off, but in the case.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 28 May 2021 20: 41
    +2
    "compared to armed:" Thomsons of "gangsters" I would become with an inflection point: "Thomson", he is good at a distance of no more than 40 m, and the "eight" together with the car will turn him into a drushlag
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 May 2021 21: 12
    +5
    Tired of putting pluses! Excellent article + kind company, a distinctive feature of Friday reading from Vyacheslav Olegovich and comrades !!! Thanks everyone !!!
    1. depressant
      depressant 28 May 2021 23: 23
      +2
      Vladislav, shake your hand! The company is really uncommonly warm, it was nice to talk to everyone love )))
  • KSVK
    KSVK 28 May 2021 21: 51
    +2
    Quote: Nikkon
    Informative article. Interestingly, such a powerful ammunition as 35 Remington is used in hunting big game? Bullet 9 mm. weighing 13 g, flying at a speed of 635 m / s has an energy of more than 2600 J. Even at a distance of 100 meters from the place of the shot, it will have enough kinetic energy to knock the bear down.

    So what? Slow-moving mortar. The same good old 308 has 3,5 kJ at the muzzle. I am silent about 30-06. And bullets for 30-k are produced in large weights. For example, the same flat-backed round-headed sledgehammer Sierra Pro Hunter RN or Hornady SP RN weighing 220 UAH = 14,5 gr. I do not understand the enthusiasm of the squadrons with these overgrown revolving cartridges. A very highly specialized ammunition for shooting exceptionally short-term. This is apparently from the same opera as the fascination with revolvers.
    In the 308, you can fit a very long-range match bullet and a hunting one with a narrowed rear end for a longer shot.
    Shl By the way, for "making holes in the cylinder blocks of automobile engines" the 308th is more suitable, as well as the 30-06. bully
    1. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 31 May 2021 16: 56
      0
      The same good old 308 has 3,5 kJ at the muzzle. I am silent about 30-06.

      The .30-06 type M1 ball of the 1926 model had the same 3,5-3,6 kilojoules at the muzzle as the 7,62x51mm NATO.
      Modern hunting and sporting cartridges based on the .30-06 cartridge are already a slightly different story - there is initially a much higher parameter of the ultimate pressure in the chamber when fired.
      these overgrown revolving cartridges. A very highly specialized ammunition for shooting extremely short-term.

      .35 Remington - weltless cartridge. So for the role of a revolver, he is somehow not very good. This is a perfectly normal rifle cartridge. He's just not a military man, but a hunting one. It's simple - for a hunting cartridge, a firing range of more than three hundred meters is actually simply not needed. Otherwise, the hunter will then start looking for prey. Usually, the firing range for such weapons is even less - within 150-200 meters.
      But a hunting cartridge needs a high stopping effect. Therefore, a blunt-nosed bullet is not the best from the point of view of ballistics.
  • Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 29 May 2021 22: 20
    +1
    Why didn't they come up with a two-row store, I wonder?
    1. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 31 May 2021 16: 59
      +1
      Why didn't they come up with a two-row store, I wonder?

      Perhaps the reason is that the cartridge supply system in the weapon itself is not designed to work with a double-row magazine.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 31 May 2021 17: 42
    0
    Quote: Terran Ghost
    Why didn't they come up with a two-row store, I wonder?

    Perhaps the reason is that the cartridge supply system in the weapon itself is not designed to work with a double-row magazine.

    Duc at the double-row store on issue, then there is still one cartridge
  • ecolog
    ecolog 5 August 2021 19: 14
    0
    What cannot be taken away from the Americans - they can inflate any ordinary episode to the skies. Two raiders who were shot dead, killed in a purely American manner - for some reason they were riddled, as if they were some kind of undead. That is, this "magnificent eight" was apparently afraid to death of them. Either they are terrible non-professionals and did not know how much and where a person needs lead, so that he would not get up.