Military Review

The concept of the anti-aircraft complex "Kilchen" (Ukraine)

80

The Ukrainian industry has begun the development of a promising long-range anti-aircraft missile system for use in object air defense. The "Kilchen" project offers a number of interesting solutions and ideas that can positively affect the combat qualities of the complex. However, there is every reason to doubt the possibility of a successful implementation of such a project.


New development


The Kilchen air defense system project is an initiative development of the Yuzhnoye design bureau. Several other companies are also involved in the work. The first materials on this project were published a few days ago and predictably spread across the Ukrainian media, receiving high marks.

It is alleged that the proposal to create a new air defense system appeared two years ago. Then he was presented to the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine and even received a positive decision. However, the real order was never received, and funding was not opened. Probably, after two years of waiting, Yuzhnoye Design Bureau decided to remind about its project.

The development organization has revealed the appearance of a self-propelled launcher and an anti-aircraft missile. The structure of the system in a combat position is shown. Also announced are some characteristics and capabilities. In addition, estimates of an economic and operational nature are provided: such issues are also taken into account at the current stage of the project.


According to the published data, the "Kilchen" system should repeat the main proven solutions in the field of anti-aircraft complexes. At the same time, fundamentally new approaches to the organization of units and to the implementation of management are proposed. Due to this, it is planned to increase the flexibility of the organization of defense and ensure the growth of resilience.

System appearance


Design Bureau "Yuzhnoye" showed the possible appearance of a self-propelled launcher from the new system - so far in the form of a three-dimensional image. The sketched SPU is "built" on a foreign four-axle chassis. The machine is equipped with a platform with target equipment for various purposes. The main element is a lifting launcher for four transport and launch containers with vertical launch missiles. It is equipped with a gas shield with supports for installation on the ground, which indicates a "hot" method of launching the rocket.

Also shown are several tools of the complex of other types and other purposes. Radars with different missions, command posts, etc. are also self-propelled using different chassis. The use of several radars of different ranges with different functions is envisaged. Due to this, they plan to provide reliable detection and tracking of any targets, including inconspicuous ones.

Shown is a promising missile defense system, both assembled and in the form of an explosion diagram. A single-stage solid-propellant rocket in a cylindrical body with an ogival head fairing is proposed. Outside on the body there are two sets of planes. It is proposed to equip the missile with an active radar homing head and a high-explosive fragmentation warhead with ready-made striking elements. Estimated firing range - 280 km.


The standard composition of the Kilchen air defense system provides for the use of several radars and command posts, and also includes six combat vehicles with four missiles each. The complex will be able to deal with aerodynamic and ballistic targets. The possibility of simultaneous shelling of 16 aerodynamic targets with the guidance of two missiles at each is declared. It is also possible to attack 12 targets, incl. 6 ballistic. Each ballistic object can be simultaneously attacked by 4 missiles.

The possibility of obtaining an acceptable cost of the complex is declared. It is argued that the "Kilchen" will be three or four times cheaper than the American-made Patriot air defense system. Thus, with the same costs for the purchase of equipment, the air defense will be able to cover a larger front.

New guidelines


The Kilchen project offers several interesting ideas in the field of defense organization and management. It is proposed to use the principles of network centricity and automatic equipment with the possibility of self-learning. First of all, this will reduce the load on the calculation and increase the performance of all system components.

The concept of a "werewolf system" is proposed. The air defense system should not have a constant composition and structure. It is proposed to change them in accordance with the current tasks and needs of the air defense. First of all, this will be implemented by changing the number of launchers on duty under the control of one command post.


The control loops of the system should be built using “real” command posts and cloud technologies. The authors of the project believe that such a control system will be distinguished by increased stability: it cannot be disabled by traditional methods.

Benefits and problems


The proposed project of the Kilchen air defense missile system is interesting, at least, for the tasks set. Design Bureau Yuzhnoye plans to create the first Ukrainian long-range anti-aircraft complex, which fully meets the current requirements and compares favorably with the existing foreign designs. The successful implementation of such a project will have obvious positive consequences for the Ukrainian army.

The composition and appearance of the promising complex were formed on the basis of worked out ideas. This is expressed in the use of self-propelled chassis, several radars for different purposes, SPU with vertical launch, etc. At the same time, completely new principles with good potential are being proposed.

However, there are a number of objective problems of various kinds, due to which the Kilchen project runs the risk of remaining at the concept or early design stages. First of all, the prospects for new developments are negatively affected by the general economic, organizational and other problems of modern Ukraine. Because of them, many projects, despite the most daring plans, could not be brought to series and operation.


It should be recalled that the Yuzhnoye design bureau has never dealt with anti-aircraft systems. Accordingly, before the necessary experience is gained, various difficulties may arise that will negatively affect the overall course of the project. Related companies may have similar problems. There are also risks in the context of creating cooperation.

With all this, very difficult tasks are set before the Kilchen air defense system. So, at the moment, only a few countries in the world can independently build the entire range of modern air defense systems. The development and production of long-range missiles is also available only to developed countries. Whether Ukraine will be able to enter this "club" is a big question.

The proposed concept of a "cloud" control system is quite interesting and, in theory, really allows you to increase the combat qualities and survivability of the complex. However, this is a fundamentally new idea, which has not yet been implemented even in developed countries. It is unlikely that Ukrainian enterprises with limited experience and modest capabilities will be able to create such systems that fully correspond to the current ambitious plans.

Perspective without perspective


The Yuzhnoye design bureau came up with an initiative to create a promising anti-aircraft complex several years ago and even received the approval of a potential customer - but not financial and organizational support. Such events can be considered a clear hint of the future fate of the Kilchen project. The Ukrainian army shows no real interest in this development - and the completion of the project turns out to be impossible.

The organization-developer is trying to remind about a promising project through the press and it has managed to attract public attention. Perhaps such measures will give the desired result, and the Ministry of Defense will be forced to order and pay for the full development of the project. However, in this case, success is not guaranteed due to design difficulties and due to the likely lack of funding.

Thus, the Kilchen project has every chance to add to the list of failures of the Ukrainian defense industry. Once again, the most daring and interesting ideas are proposed, the implementation of which turns out to be impossible for a number of objective reasons. And this will not be the last such case - there are no prerequisites for a change in the overall negative situation.
Author:
Photos used:
KB "Yuzhnoe" / "Apostrophe TV"
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  1. Revolver
    Revolver 5 May 2021 04: 29
    +5
    Against whom and what do they mean to use IT? LPR and DPR, as far as I know, do not have aviation, except for drones sold online. And Russia has not yet come to the war and, as far as I know, has no plans to come. And if it does appear, then the only question is where the border between Russia and Poland will be, along the line of 1938 or along the line of 1945.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 May 2021 04: 35
      +7
      Quote: Nagan
      Against whom and what do they mean to use IT?

      Here it is more important WHEN it will be "created", when the Outskirts will bend or when the "Yuzhnoye" will be covered. Donkey or padishah? laughing
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 5 May 2021 04: 37
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Donkey or padishah?

        The main thing is that you do not rush ahead of the donkey and the padishah, and so one hell who is the first of them.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 May 2021 04: 40
          +2
          Quote: Nagan
          The main thing is that you do not rush ahead of the donkey and the padishah

          Thank you for your concern, but I will not develop an air defense system and do not plan to do so in the near future. laughing
    2. m.voron
      m.voron 5 May 2021 11: 21
      0
      "DPR and DPR, as far as I know, do not have aviation" - were tanks, hailstones, air defense systems found in the mines? The planes will also be dug up there.
      1. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 21 May 2021 12: 05
        0
        The Vsushniki have practically no aviation, so they won't be able to dig it out
    3. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 5 May 2021 12: 18
      +1
      First of all, against Russia, and one should not think that this Ukrainian air defense system will be ineffective and in which case we will easily destroy it. Russia lost about a dozen aircraft in the war with Georgia, which had a couple of BUK battalions modernized in Ukraine. And if Ukraine implements this project, then taking into account the already existing air defense systems and fighters + operational intelligence from the West, all this will create problems for our aviation, if we are forced to use it when, for example, Ukraine moves troops to Donbass.

      Let's hope that the economic problems of Ukraine will not allow the implementation of this project.
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 5 May 2021 15: 07
        +4
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        Russia lost about a dozen aircraft in the war with Georgia

        Firstly, 5, not "ten", and secondly - these were precisely beeches, developed and manufactured in the USSR, according to the standards of that time, and moreover, Russia had provided some assistance in their maintenance and service before that. "Neptune" is a banal old Soviet X-55, which could have been produced anyway. But how effective these complexes will be is a big question. The question is whether they will be able to create them at all, otherwise it may happen that there will be old Soviet missiles inside again.
        1. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 5 May 2021 19: 30
          +2
          ... ... "Neptune" is a banal old Soviet X-55, which could have been produced anyway.

          Only the X-35 anti-ship missile system, not the X-55 anti-ship missile system.
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 5 May 2021 20: 48
            0
            I beg your pardon, beguiled repeat
            1. Peak
              Peak 6 May 2021 04: 51
              +1
              The Kilchen air defense system project is an initiative development of the Yuzhnoye design bureau

              And the name, then ... the name what ... Hybrid quivers с flail ?
        2. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 21 May 2021 12: 07
          0
          It will turn out as with the "promising" tank Oplot
  2. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 5 May 2021 04: 53
    +7
    The main thing is to "crow"; and "dawn" is not necessary! It is important to score the "territory"! And whoever wants to work there ... let him pay! Let Russia then stammer for "cloud" technologies! angry Figurines to her! Ukraine "patented" everything! negative
    1. Bacha
      Bacha 5 May 2021 05: 37
      +4
      Transcendental technologies of the Square are transcendental ideas in the absence of a material and production base. But they really mastered the graphics very well!
      1. m.voron
        m.voron 5 May 2021 11: 26
        -3
        "in the complete absence of material and production base" - this is all there is, there is not enough finance, but this is a matter of time. Not so long ago, they laughed here about the barrels for tanks and artillery - the production was established, in the sequel they laughed for the lack of blades for helicopters so well? They are already producing.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 5 May 2021 15: 12
          +5
          Quote: m.voron
          that's all there is

          Not everything is there - a lot of everything came from Russia, and buying Western goods was hefty expensive.
          Quote: m.voron
          not enough finances, but this is a matter of time.

          Yes - the longer - the less finance)))
          Quote: m.voron
          Not so long ago, it was ridiculed about the barrels for tanks and artillery - production is established

          Is this the production that recently closed due to the extremely low quality of the products? 200 shots barrel life for a tank is an achievement ...
          Quote: m.voron
          in the sequel they laughed at the lack of blades for helicopters and so? They are already producing.

          Only the turntables do not fly from something))))
          And the quality there will be clear what, looking at the quality of mortars and tank barrels)))
          Oh yes - I forgot about the "production" of shells on Turkish equipment, which was never bought and instead sold old shells from warehouses in Europe ... the SBU was very much sorted out later)))

          So the advice - leave the mriyas, and attack Russia openly - you can surrender and Russia, you look - will begin to restore your production and improve the economy wink
        2. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 5 May 2021 19: 32
          +4
          Quote: m.voron
          "in the complete absence of material and production base" - this is all there is, there is not enough finance, but this is a matter of time. Not so long ago, they laughed here about the barrels for tanks and artillery - the production was established, in the sequel they laughed for the lack of blades for helicopters so well? They are already producing.

          Do not read Ukrainian newspapers in the morning.
        3. House 25 Sq. 380
          House 25 Sq. 380 6 May 2021 03: 28
          +2
          "the production of barrels for tanks" in Ukraine "closed" without opening, due to the transfer of the criminal case to the court by the main military prosecutor's office of Ukraine, since the "production" turned out to be a scheme in the spirit of Koreiko to cannibalize tanks from storage ....
      2. psiho117
        psiho117 6 May 2021 10: 00
        +2
        Quote: Bacha
        They really mastered Rafik perfectly!

        Graphics, at the modern level of graphic editors, can be muddied by one person in a week.
        But to create a modern air defense system of the s-400 level - only a few countries around the globe. And UkroReich, of course, is not included in this number.

        In Russia, there is just a fundamentally opposite problem - air defense systems of excellent quality, but there is no one to make videos wassat Any Korean-Chinese-Hindu student will do better than what our MO shows in the presentations.
        However, it suits me, even if it is better than in Ukraine.
    2. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 5 May 2021 11: 52
      +2
      So you can change the name and slightly change the decision. And make a new patent.
  3. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 5 May 2021 05: 21
    +3
    BMPT, tank, air defense system, let the aircraft of the 5th generation draw more and all together they will be adopted smile
  4. aleks neym_2
    aleks neym_2 5 May 2021 06: 45
    +4
    The usual thing - there is an idea, but there is no sponsor and is not observed in the near future ... for that, they are going to train space specialists with an empty treasury.
  5. Toucan
    Toucan 5 May 2021 06: 55
    +8
    In my opinion, the article is unnecessarily prolonged, there is a minimum of information, a lot of transfusion "from empty to empty".
    As for this:
    Estimated firing range - 280 km
    - then it is not so easy to realize such a launch range, even for large, high-altitude targets. In Ukraine, there are no technologies for creating anti-aircraft missiles with a specified range. Much more realistic is the creation of a missile defense system based on the R-27 aviation missile launcher, the production of which was mastered in Ukraine during the Soviet era. But in this case, it is unlikely that it will be possible to achieve a firing range of more than 80 km.
    1. Shiden
      Shiden 5 May 2021 07: 49
      +8
      In general, the article is written as an informative developer laid out his vision of the performance characteristics of the complex being developed. About the Ukrainian "Neptune" and "Alder" they also commented here that they have technologies and industries, there are no designers, but several years have passed and they have appeared in metal.
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 5 May 2021 15: 14
        +1
        Quote: Shiden
        About the Ukrainian "Neptune" and "Alder" they also commented here that they have technologies and industries, there are no designers, but several years have passed and they have appeared in metal.

        And how many are produced? And what are their characteristics? "Neptune" has already turned out to be the order of the Soviet X-55, so this development may well turn out to be something similar ... Or not at all, which is more likely ...
        1. Shiden
          Shiden 5 May 2021 16: 55
          -1
          First, look at how many "Armat, Kurgansev, Su57" are produced with such a defense budget, then you may not ask such questions. The X55 is a cruise missile analogue of the "Tomogavka" "Caliber" and yet it was produced in Ukraine. "Neptune" analogue x35 "Uranus" documentation was produced in Russia. "Alder" was developed from scratch, as missiles for rocket artillery were not produced in Ukraine.
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 5 May 2021 20: 52
            +2
            Quote: Shiden
            First, look at how many "Armat, Kurgansev, Su57" are produced with such a defense budget, then you may not ask such questions.

            Why should they be produced? These are untested samples. About 50 pieces have already been manufactured. Here you need to look at how Iskander, S-400 and calibers are produced - but they are produced very well)
            Quote: Shiden
            The X55 is a cruise missile analogue of the "Tomogavka" "Caliber" and yet it was produced in Ukraine. "Neptune" analogue x35 "Uranus" documentation was produced in Russia.

            Yes, I realized that I was confused. And as for "not produced" - before the collapse of the Union in Ukraine, they were just going to establish their production and everything was ready.
            Quote: Shiden
            "Alder" was developed from scratch, as missiles for rocket artillery were not produced in Ukraine.

            This is also a very open question - then it turns out that the same old Soviet missile in a new "wrapper".
            1. Shiden
              Shiden 5 May 2021 21: 46
              -3
              Quote: Albert1988
              Why should they be produced? These are untested samples. About 50 pieces have already been manufactured. Here you need to look at how Iskander, S-400 and calibers are produced - but they are produced very well

              That is, you want to say that these samples of the Russian military-industrial complex are a cut of the budget, so you need to understand your statement. You know, before the Second World War, the T-35 also made about 50 pieces in parades, they certainly looked formidable, but they did not show anything in battle. "Iskander", S-400 and "Caliber" legacy of the USSR and production and design bureaus were located in Russia.
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 5 May 2021 22: 55
                +2
                Quote: Shiden
                That is, you want to say that these samples of the Russian military-industrial complex are a cut of the budget, so you need to understand your statement.

                You will learn to read - I write that these are samples that not accepted for service by reason of unfinished tests! Until they pass ALL tests and all the identified shortcomings are eliminated, no one will produce them in large quantities. Is that clear to you? Although almost more machines based on armata have already been produced than the same strongholds in Ukraine ...
                And with the T-35, an example from another opera - then no one understood. what a heavy tank should look like, so both the T-35 and the SMK with the T-100 (and then the KV-1) were created in parallel.
                As for the T-14, Kurgan, etc. - now there are very clear ideas of how BMP, OBI and other vehicles should look like in order to perform normally in a modern conflict.
                Quote: Shiden
                "Iskander", S-400 and "Caliber" legacy of the USSR and production and design bureaus were located in Russia.

                The Iskadirs, although they are the heirs of the Oka, have gone very far from it - there the range has doubled, and the ability to maneuver has appeared. The S-400 is already a completely Russian development - the legacy of the USSR is the S-300. Calibers can be considered with an interference, but under the USSR they had just begun to be developed, and they were brought to working condition already in modern Russia with decent modifications.
                As for production and design bureaus, Ukraine retained industrial potential for the production of ALL types of weapons, plus, before the collapse of the Union, documents were transferred there and conditions were created for the production of many previously unproduced types of weapons, including the X-35. But svidomye almost destroyed everything during the period of "nezalezhnosti".
                1. Shiden
                  Shiden 6 May 2021 00: 31
                  -1
                  Excuse me, but what then, at parades and on TV, they have been showing experimental samples for how many years, they have been testing something for a long time.
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  And with the T-35, an example from another opera - then no one understood. what a heavy tank should look like, so both the T-35 and the SMK with the T-100 (and then the KV-1) were created in parallel.

                  Well then, just tell me why they buy the T-90 and not put the "Armata" on the stream, because they were also developed in parallel.
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  As for the T-14, Kurgan, etc. - now there are very clear ideas of how BMP, OBI and other vehicles should look like in order to perform normally in a modern conflict.

                  And this, in your opinion, is not a cut when they order, develop, make samples, but the Ministry of Defense does not know how to use it.
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  As for production and design bureaus, Ukraine retained industrial potential for the production of ALL types of weapons, plus, before the collapse of the Union, documents were transferred there and conditions were created for the production of many previously unproduced types of weapons, including the X-35. But svidomye almost destroyed everything during the period of "nezalezhnosti".

                  Straight after all, I’m wondering about the Ukraine paritsa with combat aircraft and air defense, because all the documentation and production is only necessary to restore.
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 6 May 2021 00: 54
                    +2
                    Quote: Shiden
                    Excuse me, but what then, at parades and on TV, they have been showing experimental samples for how many years, they have been testing something for a long time.

                    You will study the question first! In the 15th, they showed samples that had literally been made half a year before! Naturally, then a cycle of tests began, which in our modern realities takes at least 5-7 years.
                    Quote: Shiden
                    Well then, just tell me why they buy the T-90 and not put the "Armata" on the stream, because they were also developed in parallel.

                    Oh, you look very "competent" in this matter - the T-90 was created in 93, for a minute. If we are talking about the T-90M with a new turret and new filling, then it worked much earlier. Well, the comparison is excellent - the modernization of an already used machine and a completely new product, these are, of course, absolutely the same things! What else is smart to say?
                    Quote: Shiden
                    And this, in your opinion, is not a cut when they order, develop, make samples, but the Ministry of Defense does not know how to use it.

                    And who told you that the Ministry of Defense "does not know"? Did Shoigu call you just now? The Ministry of Defense closely supervises these projects. Now, by the way, the first batch is being manufactured for trial military operation (approximately 140 fittings) - modified taking into account the identified defects.
                    Quote: Shiden
                    Straight after all, I am now interested in the fig Ukraine betto be with combat aviation and air defense, after all, all the documentation and production are there only to be restored.

                    It is necessary to take a steam bath because everything was plundered and destroyed, many factories remained walls, and the rest cannot even bungle a simple mortar or weld the armored personnel carrier hull so that it does not crack later when the temperature drops. They have been making 50 tanks for almost 10 years, taking into account that the initial capacity of their factories is 3000 tanks per year! So soaringtsya

                    Py. Sy .: Pull up literacy! Both technical and language)))
                  2. House 25 Sq. 380
                    House 25 Sq. 380 6 May 2021 03: 37
                    +1
                    Why are you arguing, comrades ... You will tell you the number of the military unit equipped with "Neptune", in response to you the number of the military unit equipped with, say, s-400 ...
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 6 May 2021 20: 46
                      0
                      Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                      in response to you the number of a military unit equipped with, say, s-400 ...

                      To do this, it is enough to surf around the VO - there were many articles with the numbers of some parts.
                      Quote: House 25 Sq. 380
                      You will call the number of the military unit equipped with "Neptune",

                      But this, I'm afraid, will not be called by anyone yet ...
                      1. Shiden
                        Shiden 8 May 2021 10: 37
                        -1
                        And now take and find when the weapons systems officially passed state tests and were put into service and it will immediately become visible to write and declare and fantasize that somewhere abroad this is a cut and in Russia it is not. After all, how nice it is to discuss others, but criticism in your address is not pleasant to hear.
                      2. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 8 May 2021 14: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: Shiden
                        Now take it and find when the weapons systems officially passed state tests and were put into service

                        Neptune is already "in service with a number of parts" such as it is worth)))) Armata is being tested absolutely officially. But again, this is the height of technical "literacy" to compare fundamentally new machines with, in fact, a reproduction of an old and well-known product ...
                        Quote: Shiden
                        it will immediately become visible to write and declare and fantasize that somewhere abroad this is a cut, but not in Russia.

                        And where did I talk about the "cut"? It is you, dear, with manic stubbornness you use this word everywhere. I was talking about Ukraine's inability to produce even these types of weapons normally ("neptune" is the same) for a number of reasons, not to mention any "projects". And yes - if you want to compare with armature - take "Tirex" for comparison, which did not go so further than pictures. For comparison with the T-90M, you can take the T-84! Oplot "and BM" Oplot ", which Ukraine cannot produce ...
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 6 May 2021 00: 26
            +2
            Quote: Albert1988
            Alder was developed from scratch ...

            This is also a very open question - then it turns out that the same old Soviet missile in a new "wrapper".

            With "Alder" the situation is "more difficult"! The ammunition uses some innovative design solutions that were not in the "Smerch" ... But this is still not Ukrainian "know-how"! The Statesmen helped!
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 6 May 2021 00: 55
              0
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              But this is still not Ukrainian "know-how"! The statesmen helped!

              That is, the components for this "know-how" are also US-made? And they stand in a state way, I suppose))))
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 6 May 2021 03: 26
                +2
                I don't remember such details now; that is, where the components come from ... but in "Alder" gas-dynamic control with a transverse thrust is used ... The same principle and scheme were used by the staff in the newest anti-missile ...
                We are talking about equipping guided rockets "Alder-M" not only with nose blocks of aerodynamic rudders, but also with "gas-dynamic belts" of transverse / momentary control engines (DPU) of impulse action, placed in front of the centers of mass of the rockets.

                These "gas-dynamic belts" DPU are represented by 90 nozzle modules, "powered" from one or more gas generators by means of 90 capillary gas ducts, each of which is equipped with a high-speed gas distribution micro-valve with a programmable electromagnetic throttle valve drive. Filigree precise commands received by drives of certain groups of throttle valves from the inertial navigation unit of Alder-M rockets with a frequency of 1000 Hz ensure the implementation of lightning-fast transverse throws on the trajectory with its immediate correction.
                It is obvious that the employees of the Ukrainian GKKB "Luch" did not have the appropriate critical technologies and the proper experience to develop a high-performance on-board computer that would ensure the precise functioning of such a complex unit as the "gas-dynamic belt" of the DPU.
                The program for the development of the above-described "gas-dynamic belt" DPU for Ukrainian rockets "Alder-M" with 100% probability was attended by specialists from the corporation "Lockheed Martin", who had previously carried out the project and launched a more complex "gas-dynamic belt" nozzle blocks) to equip super-maneuverable anti-aircraft interceptor missiles MIM-180F PAC-104MSE, included in the ammunition of the Patriot PAC-3MSE anti-missile systems.
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 6 May 2021 20: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  in "Olkha" gas-dynamic control with a lateral thrust is used ... The same principle and scheme were used by the Shtatovites in the newest anti-missile ...

                  Well, ours use it in many places, including Iskander's mechanism for maneuvering))
                  1. Nikolaevich I
                    Nikolaevich I 6 May 2021 23: 06
                    0
                    A different type of "gas-dynamic control" is used in Iskander! Please note that in addition to the gas-dynamic transverse control (method with DPT), there is a method with OVT, which is subdivided into a method with a deflected nozzle and a method with gas-dynamic (gas-jet) rudders at the nozzle "cut"! Iskander uses the latter ... Disadvantage: gas-dynamic control works ... as long as the rocket engine is running! The DPT method is used in the 9M96 SAM ("super-maneuverability" mode ...) But in this case, it is a "short-term" mode ... technologically simpler! "Lockheed Martin" uses a technologically more complex version of gas-dynamic lateral control ...
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 7 May 2021 20: 46
                      0
                      You understand, the question then - how is this implemented on Ukrainian missiles with their collapsed industry. I am inclined that the components are state-of-the-art
  6. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 5 May 2021 11: 50
    +1
    Do not get 80 from the word at all. This range is obtained when launched from a fighter at altitude and speed. When launched from the ground and displaced, the range will be reduced significantly.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 5 May 2021 15: 14
      +2
      Is there no way to use an additional upper stage?
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 5 May 2021 15: 34
        +1
        That is one more step. Of course it is possible. But this will be a slightly different rocket.
  • Angry Alt-Right
    Angry Alt-Right 5 May 2021 07: 21
    0
    And why from the very beginning of reading the article, I had a suspicion that "someone" is trying to clone an American Patriot? laughing
  • Ingvard chijoff
    Ingvard chijoff 5 May 2021 07: 33
    0
    Basically, Russians, they can do anything. It remains to deal with moronic Ukrainians and overthrow the fascist government.
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 5 May 2021 07: 38
    +1
    For the last twenty years, UKRALina has only been doing what draws and uploads interesting pictures, no more. It is clear that they have a good computer modeling specialist, I am not sure, however, that with a Ukrainian surname and the fact that they live on the territory of UKRALIN is also not a fact. .. Well, in reality, not possessing the technologies for the production of an air defense system, any attempt to create it looks like only a good reason to cut the dough and no more ..
  • Hey
    Hey 5 May 2021 08: 11
    +3
    Design Bureau "Yuzhnoye" will most likely cope with the creation of the rocket, but with the rest, in the near future, it is unlikely.
  • BAI
    BAI 5 May 2021 08: 31
    0
    So, at the moment, only a few countries in the world can independently build the entire range of modern air defense systems. The development and production of long-range missiles is also available only to developed countries. Whether Ukraine will be able to enter this "club" is a big question.

    Why does she need everything? NATO will help in cooperation.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 5 May 2021 15: 15
      +2
      Quote: BAI
      NATO will help in cooperation.

      Are you laughing? Why NATO? They need to sell their trash, and not help develop something local ...
  • Grognag
    Grognag 5 May 2021 09: 18
    0
    Zrs from scratch, right together with the apl for the non-rail fleet
  • prior
    prior 5 May 2021 09: 20
    +3
    Oh, how the South wants government funding.
    For money and not so much you can promise. yes
    1. Thorvlobnor IV
      Thorvlobnor IV 5 May 2021 18: 07
      -2
      Design Bureau "Yuzhnoye" has quite tangible international authority: it makes rocket engines and stages of space rockets, satellites for the West; a tactical missile system is being created for the Saudis. Before the start of the conflict with the Russian Federation, they jointly operated Zenit, Dnepr and Cyclone launch vehicles. They design an air-to-ground missile, purchase the latest equipment, and use metal 3D printing technologies. So, rumors about the death of the company are slightly exaggerated.
      1. prior
        prior 6 May 2021 08: 23
        +1
        No matter how great a politician is, this does not mean that he can be a good gynecologist.
        Yuzhnoye was engaged in space, yes. Air defense for him is absolutely "another space". And in this "other space" KB Yuzhnoye is like an agronomist in metallurgy.
        And I also made rockets as a child, out of gunpowder. Maybe I'm a rocket scientist too?
        1. Thorvlobnor IV
          Thorvlobnor IV 6 May 2021 18: 00
          0
          What does politics, gynecology, agronomy and metallurgy have to do with it? Yuzhnoye is a design bureau that designs missiles and everything connected with it. The concern "Yuzhmash" includes Pavlograd chemical and mechanical plants, which ate the dog on solid fuel engines. The Radionix company makes guidance heads: radar, passive and active, as well as a bunch of other military electronics. The Arsenal plant makes laser gyroscopes. On the Alder rockets, a system of a belt of impulse disposable rocket motors for trajectory correction has been worked out (and can this be done in Russia?). almost everything that is needed to create an anti-aircraft complex is already there. How long will we underestimate a potential adversary?
      2. psiho117
        psiho117 6 May 2021 10: 13
        0
        Quote: Torvlobnor IV
        Design Bureau "Yuzhnoye" has quite tangible international authority

        That was a long time ago and not true - before the war.
        Now, after a bunch of employees fled from the design bureau, when cooperation ties with Russia have been severed, and there has been no funding for years, this is a completely different Yuzhnoye ...
        1. Thorvlobnor IV
          Thorvlobnor IV 6 May 2021 18: 05
          -2
          5200 employees as of 2019. Few?
          1. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 21 May 2021 12: 19
            0
            And how many of them are parasites?
  • APASUS
    APASUS 5 May 2021 09: 41
    +1
    The organization-developer is trying to remind about a promising project through the press and it has managed to attract public attention. Perhaps such measures will give the desired result, and the Ministry of Defense will be forced to order and pay for the full development of the project.

    The real goal is to allocate funds from the budget, this is a worked-out scheme for the Americans, and then like for Kh Nasreddin:
    Either the shah dies, or the donkey dies!
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 5 May 2021 11: 38
    0
    No, the owner will not understand. There is no money for the Patriot, but will it be financed? We scattered.
    First, three four democratic complexes and one hundred fighters. And then maybe they will.
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 5 May 2021 12: 12
    0
    There is no such word, which this bandervaflu was called, in the Ukrainian language. You have to understand this Banderasty surzhik. As the saying goes: "What do you call a yacht, so it will float))))
    1. markant1970
      markant1970 5 May 2021 17: 04
      0
      Smiled, I have not heard such nonsense from you. For reference: -a very clean river with excellent fishing in the Novomoskovsk region, a tributary of Samara, the name is borrowed from the Tatar language.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 5 May 2021 17: 53
        0
        Do you think I should know all the Banderland rivers? small rivers, there is "a dime a dozen"))) I was talking about the Ukrainian language.
        1. markant1970
          markant1970 5 May 2021 18: 12
          0
          Here I am about the language.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 5 May 2021 21: 31
            0
            So what are you talking about? About Tatar or Ukrainian? I don't speak Tatar, so I won't argue.
            1. markant1970
              markant1970 5 May 2021 22: 50
              -1
              You have identified the Tatar name of the Ukrainian river as Banderasty surzhik laughing
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 5 May 2021 23: 01
                0
                Yes, because there is no such word in the Ukrainian language. But the Zapukryan surzhik, which consists of Polish, Romanian and hell knows what other words, may well include such an abracadabra. Once in Genichesk, Lviv residents were resting in a neighboring house. I am fluent in normal Ukrainian, but some of their words were a mystery to me.
                1. markant1970
                  markant1970 6 May 2021 17: 51
                  -2
                  You haven't been to Transcarpathia yet laughing
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 6 May 2021 17: 54
                    0
                    I used to, but those with whom I had a chance to communicate spoke excellent Russian)))
  • YOU
    YOU 5 May 2021 13: 28
    +1
    Alder and Neptune have already been mentioned. But this is still the Soviet groundwork. It remains to wait until these systems appear in "sufficient" quantity, not for the parade. Ideas can be correct and NATO can theoretically help in development. But that's why they need it. It is easier for them to sell something of their own on credit, but why a competitor with their own development. And then there is really little data. And it is quite interesting for several radars of 6 launchers. 24 rockets. And they declare the possibility of hitting 16 aerodynamic targets, 2 missiles per target. Or 12 ballistic missiles, as many as four missiles per target. This means defeat by some kind of compound of several fire units. Or is it one firing unit, then 6 launchers are clearly not enough for such firing tasks. Something here is clearly all too theoretical. At least for today.
  • Old26
    Old26 5 May 2021 14: 00
    +5
    Quote: Nagan
    Against whom and what do they mean to use IT? LPR and DPR, as far as I know, do not have aviation, except for drones sold online.

    An interesting line of reasoning. That is, if there is no one to use against whom, it is not necessary? But this is from our point of view of Ukraine. Now each country, if it wants to stand out from the crowd of others, considers it necessary, if not to create its own, then to produce weapons. And Ukraine is no exception. This is, if you will, a kind of "pass" to the club of elite arms-producing countries. And Ukraine has potential, although it has already been largely lost.

    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Quote: Nagan
    Against whom and what do they mean to use IT?

    Here it is more important WHEN it will be "created", when the Outskirts will bend or when the "Yuzhnoye" will be covered. Donkey or padishah? laughing

    We, if we do not "dream" about the "Yuzhnoye" being covered, then we have been talking about it for 20 years already. And it, "Yuzhnoye", is not covered. The question is different - "where is the money, Zin". There will be stable financing - and the complex will be created, and the design bureau "will not be covered."

    Quote: Herman 4223
    Do not get 80 from the word at all. This range is obtained when launched from a fighter at altitude and speed. When launched from the ground and displaced, the range will be reduced significantly.

    Ukraine has (or rather, remained) developments in solid fuel engines. So the issue of reaching a range of 80 kilometers or more is by no means a technical issue. It is difficult to create a missile defense system, but for Ukraine it is not something impossible. There are design schools, as well as industrial potential. The only question is the question of financing

    Quote: Grognag
    Zrs from scratch, right together with the apl for the non-rail fleet

    Not from scratch already. They have developments, albeit based on Soviet designs. The same "Sapsan" in addition to OTK and anti-ship missiles was planned to use the "Dnepr" missile defense system. Don't underestimate your opponent. Here on "V.O" they laughed a lot about both "Alder" and "Neptune", claiming that even in metal the Ukrainians would not be able to make them. Now many have stopped, realizing that even if imperfect such systems will cause a lot of harm, they will become a source of grief and suffering if they are applied to the civilian population in Donbass.
    1. bk316
      bk316 6 May 2021 14: 05
      0
      There will be stable financing - and the complex will be created, and the design bureau "will not be covered".

      No, there is such a parameter - the time of loss of competencies. 20-30 years if you don't finance it is already easier to create from scratch
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 5 May 2021 16: 55
    0
    How much is paid for funny pictures?
  • Nord11
    Nord11 5 May 2021 20: 01
    0
    When will the models go on sale? Garnie yaks, I would take ..
  • Sergey Kulikov_3
    Sergey Kulikov_3 6 May 2021 09: 47
    0
    It is not good for the great-Ukrainian designers to waste their time on sketches of the air defense system, it is better to immediately develop the "Death Star", there are drawings, however, it is necessary to modify a little, with the fat storage there is not very good, and the tanks for vodka are too small. The commander is already there, it remains only to throw in sms for construction. For a small fraction of the fees for this project, I will tell you where the drawings are :)
  • lelik613
    lelik613 6 May 2021 11: 00
    0
    It is not very smart to console yourself with humoresques like "when the Outskirts will bend". The attitude towards non-brothers must be changed fundamentally, as well as the attitude towards the local "Edison".

    Mohsen Fakhrizadeh's story has left many questions. But no less questions have been raised by a series of ... Iranian nuclear physicists over the past 10 years. Like the heroes of the Ten Little Indians, they teleport under mysterious circumstances.
    (tm)
  • Old26
    Old26 6 May 2021 13: 43
    +2
    Quote: PiK
    The Kilchen air defense system project is an initiative development of the Yuzhnoye design bureau

    And the name, then ... the name what ... Hybrid quivers с flail ?

    EMNIP - the right tributary of the Samara River, which in turn is the left tributary of the Dnieper? We also have the Neva complex named after the river. And "Angara" (offhand). Everyone calls what he wants. Well, they called it the name of the river in that region ... Name, as a name
  • alexvmar
    alexvmar 6 May 2021 14: 52
    0
    I wonder on what element base it will all be, as it were (it is clear that these are only pipe dreams) to be fulfilled? Or maybe a microwave oven, or even worse, an air conditioner next door, will disable these fantastic systems?
  • monster
    monster 7 May 2021 07: 51
    +1
    Only today and only with us! Deadly number! Svidosvyni and Mriya! laughing laughing laughing
  • super.ias
    super.ias 8 May 2021 06: 21
    0
    "Kilchen"