Military Review

Marine stories. How Admiral Nimitz saved Admiral Doenitz from the gallows

107
Marine stories. How Admiral Nimitz saved Admiral Doenitz from the gallows

History, which will be discussed, ended in 1946 in the city of Nuremberg, during the international Tribunal, which tried the Nazi elite.


One of the defendants was the Grandadmiral, the commander of the submarine fleet Reich (1939-1943), Commander-in-Chief of the German Navy (1943-1945), Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the German Armed Forces from April 30 to May 23, 1945 Karl Doenitz.

The gallows really shone on Doenitz, since the German submariners did their best during the war. Plus, the fact that the Grand Admiral held such, to put it mildly, delicate posts at the very end of the war. It is clear that for an incomplete month of Germany's rule, he could not do anything wrong, especially since the war ended in fact the day after Hitler's successor took office.

But the main complaint against Karl Doenitz was the so-called order "Triton Zero" or "Order" Laconia ". The British prosecutor considered that this order was a proven crime, since, according to his submarine crews, it was charged with deliberately destroying the crews and passengers of sunken ships and ships.

A very serious charge, however, this item was not included in Doenitz's list of crimes. And instead of the expected gallows, Doenitz received only 10 years in prison.

The main reason is believed to be the intercession of US Navy Admiral Chester Nimitz, who was summoned as a consultant witness on submarine warfare.


Nimitz was really smart in submarines, but his performance at the Tribunal was amazing.

Nimitz said that Doenitz did not see anything like this in the act, since the American submarine forces in the Pacific Ocean adhered to exactly the same tactics of unlimited submarine warfare as the Germans. The tribunal took into account the unexpected statement of the American admiral and Doenitz received 10 years.

However, if you dig deeper, the participation of the Americans in the fact that Doenitz issued his order "Triton Zero" is far from being so chivalrous. Rather, on the contrary, it is very unsightly.

Let's go into history.

1942 year. The war really engulfed the whole world and it became World War by this year. They fought in all oceans and on almost all continents. The only exception was North America. The surface war with large ships at the Kriegsmarine did not work out, therefore, according to the experience of the First World War, the Reich decided to strike at Britain with the help of raiders and submarines.

It was the right decision. The number of sunk ships was in the tens a month, and the tonnage was hundreds of thousands of tons.

It should be noted that at the beginning of the war, the submariners of the participating countries still adhered to the knightly rules of the First World War and international codes of practice.

However, the case, which we will now consider, put a fat point in the history of sea chivalry. Despite the fact that submarine warfare is one of the most brutal battlefields of that war, even in its history there were moments, let's say, that did not quite fit into the general framework.

On September 12, 1942, at 22.07, the German submarine U-156 under the command of Werner Hartenstein attacked an armed transport under the British flag and hit it with two torpedoes. The attacked transport sent the message "SSS" - a code meaning "attacked by a submarine." This transport was RMS Laconia.


According to the documents, there were more than 2 people on board, including 700 crew members, 63 civilians, including women and children, 80 British soldiers, approximately 268 Italians prisoners and 1 people from a convoy consisting of Poles.

After the torpedo explosions, the ship received a strong list, which did not make it possible to lower all the boats into the water. If this succeeded, there would be enough places for everyone, even for prisoners. By the way, prisoners of war also had the right to salvation in accordance with all international rules.

However, the captured Italians were simply thrown in the holds. When the guards ran to flee, some of the Italians somehow managed to knock out the windows and crawl through the ventilation shafts.

Some were shot, some were stabbed to death with bayonets and knives. Thus, the noble sea gentlemen from Britain and their assistants from Poland protected themselves from problems with overloading boats. The Italians were not given the opportunity to even get close to the boats, driving away some with shots, some with blows.

The blood and movement in the water, as expected, attracted sharks. The Atlantic coast of Africa is, you know, a paradise for sharks who welcomed an unexpected lunch.

In general, the attitude of the British sailors to the opponents in that war could sometimes be compared with the actions of the Japanese.

Further, when the Laconia plunged into the water, U-156 appeared on the surface. At that time, the German submariners had an order to take captains and chief engineers prisoner.


IXC series boat of the same type as U-156

The captain of the German submarine Walter Hartenstein did not know that the captain of the "Laconia" Rudolf Sharp remained on the sinking ship, but it was possible to try to follow the instructions of the headquarters, since many people plus boats were floundering on the surface of the water.

Actually, Hartenstein might not have done that. "Lakonia" went in an anti-submarine zigzag, with extinguished lights and was armed. Two 120-mm guns, three 25-mm anti-aircraft machine guns and six 12,7-mm machine guns. So U-156 could follow on to Cape Town and no one would be in the claims.


Guns on "Laconia"

But the German captain gave the command to ascend, and ascending, he suddenly heard Italian speech. And then a strange thing happened: the German captain turned out to be an incomplete brute, reported to the headquarters and decided to conduct a rescue operation.

It is clear that the submarine is least of all adapted for operations to rescue a large number of people. And then Hartenstein made a very extraordinary decision: he went on the air on an open frequency and told everyone that “If any ship wishes to help the crew of the Laconia, I will not attack it, provided that I myself am not attacked from the sea or from the air. I have 193 rescued on board. 4 degrees 52 minutes South, 11 degrees 26 minutes West. "

The Kriegsmarine command approved the rescue operation. U-156 was approached by U-506 and U-507, and the Italian submarine "Comandante Cappellini". In addition, the government of occupied France (Vichy), at the request of the commander-in-chief of the Kriegsmarine, Grossadmiral Raeder, sent three more ships from Casablanca.

In general, by September 15, German and Italian submariners actually lifted all the living out of the water and began to move on the surface, towing the boats behind them. It is clear that in this position the boats were very vulnerable in any scenario, and the slightest threat of an attack would be reflected on the rescued.


The threat arose the next day, September 16. An American B-156 Liberator from the patrol force based on Ascension Island flew over U-24, which was towing four boats and in addition had more than a hundred rescued Italians on board.


When the plane appeared from the submarine, a searchlight signaled that "An Air Force officer is speaking from a German submarine, on board the survivors of the Laconia: soldiers, civilians, women, children."

In addition, the boat showed the crew of the V-24 the Red Cross flag measuring 2 x 2 meters. The Americans were supposed to see.

The crew of the plane did not react in any way and the "Liberator" flew away.

Returning to his base on Ascension Island, crew commander James Harden reported what he saw to his commander, base chief, Robert Richardson.


Robert Richardson

According to the rules of war, written, however, in peacetime, ships flying the Red Cross flag, conducting rescue operations, could not be attacked.

Richardson later claimed that he did not know that the submarine was involved in the rescue operation. And therefore, believing that the boat could shell the island and destroy the base, thereby endangering a very important supply route for Great Britain.

So-so excuse, to be honest. The IXC type submarine's armament consisted of a 105 mm gun and 110 rounds of ammunition. The destruction of an entire airfield with such "powerful" artillery weapons is poorly presented in real time, since at the first shots airplanes can rise and make the boat a "fun" life.

However, Richardson sends Harden back with orders to sink the boat. At 12.32 "Liberator" Harden attacks U-156. The bombs explode near the boat, but cause minimal damage. But he turns over and smashes two boats to pieces, killing and maiming the sailors and passengers who were in them. Note - British sailors and passengers, since there were no Italians in the boats.

What could Captain Harenstein do in this situation? Naturally, start diving. That he ordered, ordering the people on the deck to jump into the water and swim from the boat, so as not to be sucked into a whirlpool from the submerging boat.

Harden's B-24, having used up all the bombs, flew to the base. The plane's crew was awarded medals for the murder of British citizens. Well, in general, for the sinking of a German submarine, but the damage was repaired very quickly on the U-156, and the boat independently came to base.

It remains to think that the American Harden perfectly understood what was happening below, because he so obscenely threw bombs at a crawling boat, which was a very easy target. In more difficult conditions, the Americans sank both German and Japanese submarines. I'd like to think that Harden was thinking about honor and conscience, and the first call, when he hit the boats, was really accidental.

The Liberator carried eight 1100 lb (500 kg) bombs in the bay. Bombs were thrown in pairs, that is, four rounds. Apparently Harden's crew was a good crew.

U-156 sank. Hartenstein advised the people in the boats to stay in the same area and wait for the French ships. He had information that the light cruiser Gloire and the patrol ships Dumont Durville and Annamit had already left.

But in the boats they decided that with such a rescue operation it would be possible not to live at all until the next day. And two boats, taking water and provisions from the Italians from the Capellini submarine, set off towards Africa. It was a cruel campaign.

The first boat reached the African coast after 27 days. Of the 56 people on board, 16 survived. The second boat was picked up by a British trawler 40 days later. Out of 52 people, 4 survived there ...

And at the headquarters of the Kriegsmarine, learning that U-156 was attacked, they gave the order to the commanders of U-506 (commander Lieutenant Commander Erich Würdemann) and U-507 (commander corvette captain Harro Schacht) to land the British and Poles on boats and leave.

Interestingly, both German captains did not obey the order! And they continued to go towards the French ships on the surface, covered with people on the deck.

And Richardson kept trying to sink the boats. And the B-24 was joined by five B-25 bombers. The five spotted and attacked U-506, carrying 151 people, including 9 women and children.

The attacks of the five B-25s were also unsuccessful!

In general, everyone was lucky, French ships appeared in the area and Richardson finally calmed down. He decided that the French were going to attack his base (he probably had paranoia and a broken radio), the commander of the American base withdrew the planes to prepare to repel the attack from the sea.

The French ships took in all those rescued by the Germans and Italians.

What is the bottom line. The result is sad. Of the 2732 people on board the Laconia, 1113 survived, of the 1619 who died, 1420 were Italian prisoners of war.

But this incident had very far-reaching consequences. Including the order "Triton Zero" or as it was also called, "Order of Laconia", which Karl Doenitz, who appreciated his submariners, issued already on September 17, 1942.

There is no point in citing the text here, it is easy to find it on the Internet, if anyone is interested, the point is that from now on, submarine crews were prohibited from providing assistance to the crews and passengers of sunken ships.

One has only to regret that the knightly concepts of the rules of warfare are a thing of the past. After all, literally some twenty years ago, during the First World War, such behavior was quite normal. But the further, the more ruthless the opponents became in relation to each other and the more merciless the war became.

It is simply stupid to be surprised that the Americans, the British, the Japanese, and the Germans - all of them have become hostages of bitterness today. The Second World War changed a lot in the minds of people and those claiming this title.

But Grossadmiral Doenitz, in fact, was saved by this very thing.

By the way, no one saw Captain Richardson, who ordered the attack on the boats with the rescued, in the dock. Despite the fact that, according to all international standards, the order to attack a boat under the Red Cross flag is the most that neither is a war crime.

The history, of course, is written by the winners.

Submarine U-156, Commander Lieutenant Commander Walter Hartenstein, was sunk on 8 March 1943 by a Catalina attack east of Barbados. The entire crew (53 people) was killed.

Submarine U-506, commander Lieutenant Commander Erich Würdemann, sunk on 12 July 1943 in the North Atlantic west of Vigo by depth charges from the US Navy B-24 Liberator. 48 crew members were killed, 6 were rescued.

Submarine U-507, commander of the corvette captain Harro Schacht, sunk on 13 January 1943 in the South Atlantic northwest of Natal by depth charges from the US Navy Catalina. All 54 crew members were killed.

The conclusions are as follows:
- not always and not all Germans were beasts in human form.
- Americans were not always the saviors of humanity.
- American pilots knew how to sink the submarines of the Germans and Japanese.
- The "misses" of the American crews on the boats participating in the rescue operation "Lakonia" were caused not by a lack of combat experience, but by the presence of conscience.
- Karl Doenitz was incredibly lucky that his colleague Chester William Nimitz also had a conscience.
- The Second World War finally forced the military to part with such concepts as chivalrous behavior towards the enemy.

The author deliberately excluded the Soviet side from the enumerations and comparisons for obvious reasons.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka April 30 2021 04: 59
    +9
    ... They fought in all oceans and on almost all continents. The only exception was North America.

    Probably Antarctica after all. In Grenada, the Germans at least tried to organize meteorological observation.
    By the way, the Germans suffered losses there.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 30 2021 05: 19
      +8
      The Japanese tried to bomb the continental United States with balloons. 6 people were killed.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 30 2021 06: 53
        +7
        Hello Anton. smile
        They also bombed from the Ayagumos airplane delivered to the shores of the United States by a submarine.
        On August 15, 1942, the I-25 left the base in Yoko for the next campaign and on September 1 approached Oregon. On September 9, the ship's commander, Captain 3rd Rank M. Tagami summoned pilot Fujita to the conning tower.
        The I-25 surfaced, the seaplane was removed from the hangar and placed on a catapult. Fujita and Observer Okuda donned overalls, climbed into the cockpit, and were soon in the air. Fujita headed for the Cape Blanco lighthouse, crossed the coastline and headed northeast.
        They flew two sorties and dropped four bombs, resulting in fires that the Americans dealt with safely. There were no casualties among the population. The Japanese returned to the boat and she went back to the base. In general, "much ado about nothing." laughing

      2. wlkw
        wlkw April 30 2021 13: 43
        +3
        Moreover, a part of America was "occupied" by the Japanese islands. The Americans found out about this the truth later, when the Japanese had already left them :-))))
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins April 30 2021 06: 17
      +6
      By the way, I saw not a bad feature film about the described history. The name seems to contain the name of the ship "laconia". I advise you to look.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 30 2021 06: 42
        +10
        Hello my friend. smile

        The film is really very good, by the way, a real participant in those events played there - an Englishman, a steward from "Laconia", if I'm not mistaken, he played himself.
        The film is called "The Downfall of Laconia" (2011).

        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins April 30 2021 06: 45
          +8
          Exactly! I saw him for a long time, but the movie, as they say, "hooked"!
          Good morning.
        2. CastroRuiz
          CastroRuiz April 30 2021 13: 34
          0
          Not bad because it wasn't filmed by the idiots from Holywoodu.
      2. ZAPOROZHAN. 1959
        ZAPOROZHAN. 1959 2 May 2021 13: 02
        0
        A good one is written together.
    3. Catfish
      Catfish April 30 2021 06: 33
      +11
      Vlad, hello and good morning. smile
      Again "clinging to you with my comment. This is about the protagonist of the incident with" Laconia. "

      Corvette Captain Werner Hartenstein.


      Date of birth February 27, 1908
      Place of Birth
      Plauen, Zwickau [d], Kingdom of Saxony, German Empire
      Died 8 March 1943 (age 35)
      A place of death
      Atlantic Ocean [1]
      Affiliation Weimar Republic, Third Reich
      Arm of troops Reichsmarine
      kriegsmarine submarine
      Years of service 1928-1943
      Rank captain 3rd rank
      Commanded U-156
      Battles / wars
      Spanish Civil War
      The Second World War
      Battle of the Atlantic


      Spanish cross in bronze (June 6, 1939)
      Iron Cross (1939)
      Iron Cross 2st Class (16 November 1939)
      Iron Cross 1st Class (27 April 1940)
      Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross (17 September 1942)
      Destroyer military badge (24 December 1940)
      Submariner's badge (March 17, 1942)
      German Cross in Gold (February 2, 1942)
      Mentioned in the Wehrmachtbericht (6 June 1942)
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 30 2021 07: 22
        +7
        Hello Uncle Kostya! The rank of corvette captain was awarded to Hartenstein posthumously. However, like Shakhtu.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 30 2021 07: 32
          +7
          We commemorate everyone according to the last rank. smile

          Gartenstein among the rescued.
          1. Richard
            Richard April 30 2021 16: 00
            +7
            Dönitz was released on October 1, 1956 from Spandau prison in West Berlin. He settled in the small village of Aumüle, in Schleswig-Holstein in northern West Germany, where he lived the rest of his life in comparative obscurity. Dönitz received a pension from the West German government with the rank of "captain-zur-see", which refused to pay admiral, since Dönitz received admiral ranks after the outbreak of World War II
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 30 2021 16: 01
              +2
              Interestingly, I have not heard of this. Thank you. drinks
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine April 30 2021 09: 04
          +4
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          The rank of corvette captain was awarded to Hartenstein posthumously.

          I wonder why in the photo Hartenstein has the insignia of the corvette-captain.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 30 2021 09: 29
            +6
            I do not know. I practically do not understand this topic. I read information on personalities in Wiki. I decided to blather. If you screwed up, I apologize.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine April 30 2021 10: 01
              +4
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              If you screwed up, I apologize.

              Yes, they did not screw up, just many articles and books were written by people far from the fleet, but who consider themselves experts. Better to read the memoirs of Herbert Werner "Steel Coffins", from the beginning of WWII served on the submarine and since 1943 was the commander of the submarine. Of the 86 submarine commanders who fought in the Atlantic, he is one of three survived. Memoirs without political overtones.
              Of all the active participants in the Kriegsmarine submariners, 90% died.
              1. Bagatur
                Bagatur April 30 2021 16: 46
                +3
                Officially, the Germans admitted 28 submariners from the 000 personnel of the Kingsmsrine submarine were killed. This is the largest percentage of irretrievable losses of all branches of the German army 40-000.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Catfish
          Catfish April 30 2021 09: 26
          +8
          Posthumously, you say?
          By the way, it is in this photo that Hartenstein is in the uniform of a corvette captain. smile
          (I don't mean this picture, of course)
        4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 10: 04
          -2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Hello Uncle Kostya! The rank of corvette captain was awarded to Hartenstein posthumously. However, like Shakhtu.

          Don't carry crap. Hartenstein was promoted to June 1, 42nd, and died at Barbados on March 8, 43rd.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 30 2021 10: 11
            +12
            Are you, Mr. Y, always so harsh or only on Fridays?
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 10: 27
              0
              Harro Schacht posthumously awarded the title frigate captain, not KK.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish April 30 2021 21: 47
              +4
              This usually happens with chronic malnutrition. I noticed it for a long time. request
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 30 2021 21: 52
                +6
                Yes, no, "Paragraph", he is - a good character, but suddenly, in my address "vystebutsya" decided, not understanding that it is fraught.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish April 30 2021 22: 41
                  +4
                  I'm not saying that he is bad, he has sensible and venomous comments, but here he clearly spoke in the wrong way.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave April 30 2021 22: 52
                    +5
                    On that, Uncle Kostya, on that. But there is a moment: I, always trying to be polite, is still a bastard.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 1 May 2021 14: 39
                      +1
                      I wonder what else politeness can affect?
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 30 2021 07: 56
        +4
        It suddenly became interesting whether among the German submariners there were boat commanders with a rank higher than the corvette captain? Or did the next rung on the career ladder involve a transfer to another position?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 30 2021 09: 03
          +6
          Wolfgang Lute - Captain zur see.
          Erich Toop - Fregatten Captain.
          Heinrich Liebe - Captain Fregatten.
          Viktor Schütze - Captain zur see.

          This is offhand one of the most productive. Kretschmer and Guggenberger would certainly have received new titles if they had not been captured. But both of them became admirals in the Bundesmarine.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 30 2021 10: 38
            +2
            Thank you, Uncle Kostya! hi
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 30 2021 10: 46
              +2
              You're welcome. smile
              Epitaph of the Kriegsmarine.
              1. WapentakeLokki
                WapentakeLokki April 30 2021 20: 35
                +1
                If this is an EPITAPH OF KRIGSMARINE, what kind of Yamato is depicted in the picture ???
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish April 30 2021 21: 03
                  +2
                  Curved and striped. Find a similar drawing with "Bismarck", I will love it.
                  1. WapentakeLokki
                    WapentakeLokki 1 May 2021 18: 11
                    0
                    .if you muddied the topic with the Kriegsmarine, then what kind of .. here they inserted Japan and .. your present to me .. funny .. muddied themselves and I am in charge ... bravo encore !!!
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 1 May 2021 18: 19
                      +4
                      And I didn’t think to present you with anything, there were no worries. If you are not familiar with the concept of allegory, then this is not my problem. request
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 12: 00
            0
            Quote: Sea Cat
            This is offhand one of the most productive.

            How can we not recall Bruno Man, the oldest "field" submariner of the Kriegsmarine. At 55, he took his grandfather on a military campaign on a captured Dutch boat. 75 days at sea and a sunken trough at 7K brt. Then he received KzS.
            Herman Rigele (52 years old) also rose to FrK from the old-timers-veterans of WWI. Grandpa went as many as three trips on a captured Dutch woman (103 days) and drowned the Norwegian in 5K brt
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 30 2021 12: 19
              +1
              , the oldest "field" submariner ...


              Nonsense, fifty dollars is not an age for a man. laughing



              Unlike Bruno Man, whose photo could not be found, several photos of Hermann von Rigele survived, like this one from the First World War.
              http://www.edition-wh.at
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 12: 42
                +1
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Nonsense, fifty dollars is not an age for a man.

                Yes, unless this guy is in command of the SP. The average age of the Kriegsmarine commanders was 27 years.
          3. Richard
            Richard April 30 2021 16: 51
            +2
            Kriegsmarine officer ranks
            1. Richard
              Richard April 30 2021 16: 57
              +5
              In my opinion, the most prominent form was that of the Kriegsmarine boatswain. Precisely, you can't confuse with anyone





              the demobilization of the sewing troops nerno smoke aside from envy smile
              1. Catfish
                Catfish April 30 2021 17: 17
                +5
                demobilization of the sewing troops


                Now they will urgently begin to sew buttons - roosters. laughing
        2. Catfish
          Catfish April 30 2021 09: 32
          +9
          Found another one. Werner Hartmann - rose to the rank of captain zur see, continued to fight: Indian Ocean, Mediterranean. After the war, Rear Admiral Bundesmarine.
        3. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine April 30 2021 10: 09
          +5
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          It suddenly became interesting whether among the German submariners there were boat commanders with a rank higher than the corvette captain?

          They did not have time to get a higher rank, because they were dying. Only a tiny fraction remained alive.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 30 2021 10: 13
            +3
            And thank you! hi
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine April 30 2021 11: 01
              +3
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              And thank you!

              This is not thanks to me, but to those who drowned them in "iron coffins".
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 10: 37
            +4
            Quote: tihonmarine
            They did not have time to get a higher rank, because they were dying.

            That's right - the qualification for getting FrK is 18 months.
      3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka April 30 2021 21: 41
        +1
        Konstantin, no problem - a very valuable addition.
  2. antivirus
    antivirus April 30 2021 05: 28
    +3

    about red cross stitching:

    28.3.17.
     antivirus 2 Today, 19:36 ↑ 
    On the issue of starched shirts and honor.
    Yakov Mikhailovich Glazunov, captain of the Volga Shipping Company, father-in-law of my friend, born in 1928.
    “They call him, in the summer, to the shipping company’s department, to Gorky (perhaps Kuibyshev?), They say:
    - "go to Stalingrad, everyone who can be evacuated there"
    Loaded at the pier. A raid began, they were quickly kicked out of the pier.
    He went along the shore.
    - "If you get, then swim to the shore, and others who survive"
    And the second ship went in the middle and drowned,
    children injured.
    They laid out white sheets with red crosses on the deck.
    "The fascist threw, threw, but missed. I kept dodging, and left."
    "Every time I spoke with a cry"
  3. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 05: 37
    +5
    > Of the 6 people on board, 16 survived
    Very unusual) You, Roman, have a lot of typos in this article, haste spoils success, with all due respect.
    1. Richard
      Richard April 30 2021 16: 14
      +3
      By and large, the Kriegsmarine uniform was no different from the uniform worn in other navies of the countries of the world. At the same time, the German submariners had unique overalls. There were a great many combinations of items of work clothes for German submariners. Let's try to describe only those clothes that were found on bodies more often than others. It is necessary to understand a simple thing - there were no two crews of two submarines dressed identically, and in one crew it was not so easy to find two organisms equally dressed.


      Photo: insignia at the emblem, clothing, accessories. From left to right: shoulder straps of lieutenant commander (1), chief lieutenant (2), lieutenant zur see (2), chief lieutenant engineer (4), oberstiumann (5), staff officers (6), machinist (7).
      The sailors wore simple oval sleeve insignia, reflecting their occupation, from top to right: engine crew 98), torpedo operators (9), radio operators (10), sailors (11).
      The next row shows the combined sleeve insignia of foremen: sanitatsobermaat (12), mechanicobermaat (13), torpedo obermaat (14), oberbotsman (15), stormmansmaat (16), funkmaat (17), unterwasserorcher (18), U-botstaucher (19) ... Each German conscript had his own document - Wehrpass (20), and after conscription - a soldier's book, Soldbuch (21). After the end of its service life, Soldbuch changed back to Wehrpass. The soldier's book contained the personal data of its owner, awards, incentives, penalties, medical data, sizes of clothes and shoes, information on salaries.

      Each soldier in the Reich had his own "dog badge" - a medallion with a personal number (22). There are many variants of medallions, different in shape and style. In the navy, medallions were often gilded. This medallion has a blood type stamped, the letter "N" stands for Nordsee - the North Sea fleet (option - "O", Ostsee or Baltic). The medallion broke into two parts. In the event of the death of a sailor, one part of the medallion remained on the body, the second was removed for registration. The most popular garment for submariners was the short jacket (23), very similar in cut to British military jackets. Submariners wore insignia and awards on jackets in every way. There are officer's shoulder straps and a metal breast eagle. A light work jacket is shown in Figure 24. The sleeve chevrons on such jackets may or may not have been.

      The tropical form was used during long voyages to the South Atlantic. Shorts (25) were worn more often than long pants, but together with a tropical shirt (26). The tropical uniform was sewn from light fabric of golden sand color. Shoulder straps for the tropical form are also details of sand-colored cloth, but they were rarely worn by submariners. More often, regular shoulder straps from a dark blue uniform were attached to the tropical uniform (27). The caps of the tropical set (28) were also cut from sand-colored fabric. The style of the cap is practically similar to the style of the caps of the soldiers of the German "Africa" ​​corps. An alternative version of a tropical headdress is a beta-colored garrison cap (29). There was almost always a heat in the compartments, so the sailors wore cotton T-shirts with an image of an eagle with a swastika on the chest (30). The plaque of a standard naval belt was made of steel and painted in a dark gray-blue color (31), the belt was leather or cloth.
      German submariners, like any other submariners, favored leather jackets that well protected the body from wind and moisture. The cut of leather jackets has practically not changed since the days of the Kaiser submarine. Leather jackets were available in black and dark brown, although some dudes with U-bots made custom-made jackets in gray leather. The "spirits", mechanics, had single-breasted jackets, with two side pockets and one more left breast pocket. Since 1937, they also began to produce double-breasted leather jackets with wider lapels. It was these jackets that were preferred by officers and foremen who served on the upper deck and on the bridge.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 30 2021 07: 00
    +7
    Laconia's order. The British prosecutor considered this order a proven crime, since, according to his submarine crews, it was purposefully destroy crews and passengers of sunken ships and ships.
    there are no instructions to destroy in that order.

    There was an instruction not to provide assistance to the victims, guided precisely by the safety of the submarine. Whatever happens, as is the case with Laconia.

    the order was given in 1939 and canceled in 1940 g

    Doenitz received a well-deserved 10 years on charges of "war crimes"

    According to the rules of war, written, however, in peacetime, ships under the red cross, conducting rescue operations, could not be attacked


    in this situation, in fact, everything is so, but, according to the rules, the red cross courts cannot have any weapons.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 30 2021 07: 24
      +7
      Hi Andrew. smile

      You are right on both counts, no one ordered the shooting of the crews of torpedo ships and, yes, the red cross and weapons are not compatible. But with "Laconia" the situation was special, out of the ordinary, so to speak.
      By the way, Nimitz did not speak at the trial, the telegram from him to the court was read by the lawyer Doenitz. At one time I read Boris Polevoy's book "In the End" (Polevoy was among our correspondents accredited for the trial), so he writes that this telegram shocked the Soviet delegation, but did its job.
      1. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki April 30 2021 20: 43
        -1
        .. our judges on Nuremberg should have remembered the North, where the Doychev submariners surfaced after the attack and stupidly shot our Soviet MGs ... and they were in no hurry to tell Carlos D about this ... offhand it seems G. Broda's cap cU- boat became famous but there were other knights .. Angles for their Laconia drowned and ours .. as always the language in .. ooo ???
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 23: 43
          0
          Quote: WapentakeLokki
          and ours .. as always the language in .. ooo ???

          The right place. Brodd did not shoot anyone with machine guns. Lawyers dictated testimony from 'eyewitnesses' about the 'massacre' and machine guns would have been smashed to dust. It is true that this incident was not brought before the tribunals. Because they themselves have a stigma in the cannon with this caravan.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish April 30 2021 20: 59
        +1
        Yes, Heinrich Brodda, U-210. Sank an unprotected convoy in the Barents Sea with artillery fire. The ships were unarmed. The Sh-500 lighter, the P-4 barge and the Komiles tugboat were sunk. The tugboat "Komsomolets" caught fire and washed ashore. The steamer "Nord" managed to get away. Of the 328 people who were on the ships of the destroyed caravan, 305 drowned or died in the course of artillery shelling. Of the 328 people who were on the ships of the destroyed caravan, 305 drowned or died in the course of artillery shelling.
        This submarine had no other "victories".

        The boat went missing with the entire crew on May 7, 1943, the Canadian pilots on the Catalinas, in general, and finished with this boat. So there was no one to judge.
        1. bubalik
          bubalik April 30 2021 22: 57
          +1
          Konstantin hi
          Brodda, submarine U-210
          u-209.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 May 2021 10: 35
            +2
            Hi Sergey, it's good that I corrected it, but I was mistaken. smile
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 23: 03
          0
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Yes, Heinrich Brodda, U-210

          U-209.
        3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 23: 31
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          So there was no one to judge.

          Judge for what?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 May 2021 10: 38
            +2
            Judge for what?


            Not my idea, this comrade complains about our justice:


            WapentakeLokki (WapentakeLokki)
            Yesterday, 20: 43
            .. our judges on Nuremberg should have remembered the North, where the Doychev submariners surfaced after the attack and stupidly shot our Soviet MGs ... and Carlos D was in no hurry to tell something about it ..
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine April 30 2021 10: 20
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      Doenitz received a well-deserved 10 years on charges of "war crimes"

      Very much "not deserved" if we proceed from the fact that Erich Raeder received a life sentence, but he himself asked to be replaced by shooting (they did not replace him), Alfred Jodl was hanged. And these two deserve less than Doenitz. Although my opinion is completely different.
  5. depressant
    depressant April 30 2021 07: 23
    +4
    The Japanese tried to bomb the continental United States with balloons. 6 people were killed.


    Anton, not only. On the part of the Japanese, attempts were indeed made to exert military influence on the west coast of the United States, but the Americans themselves, in comparison with the scale of the war, assessed these attempts as ridiculous.
    Here, for example, how the attack of the Japanese submarine I-17 on Elwood ended in the evening in February 1942.
    Initially, the shots fired by the I-17 were ignored by the Americans. The time was late, and there was almost no one at the factory. The explosion of the first projectile was mistaken by the facility workers for the internal combustion of oil vapors at the facility. So the first shots of the I-17 took place in an atmosphere of complete disregard. But a little later, one of the workers discovered in the dark a silhouette of a submarine against the background of the ocean.
    The first to recognize the enemy in the shooting ship was an oilman named J. Brown, although at first he mistook the submarine for a destroyer or even a cruiser that had penetrated the shores of California. But later, by the frequency of shots, he determined that he was firing no more than one gun, and identified the enemy as a submarine. He and several others immediately reported the attack to the Santa Barbara County Sheriff. The sheriff responded by assuring that the airplanes were on their way and would protect the city. But when the sheriff contacted the base, he found out. that in fact there are simply no planes available. able to take off immediately.
    The results of the I-17 attack can be safely considered completely insignificant. Having fired about 20 shells (very poorly targeted), the crew managed to damage one tower, a pumping station and a structure. The total damage was not even $ 1000! The plant's performance has not been impaired.
    However, I-17 also managed to find salvation without losing a single person.


    Well, further attacks by Japanese submarines on the United States were of about the same nature.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 30 2021 09: 45
      +4
      However, I-17 also managed to find salvation, ...


      Not for long. laughing The boat was sunk on August 19, 1943 by the joint efforts of the New Zealand minesweeper Tui and the aircraft of the 57th US Air Force Reconnaissance Squadron Vought OS2U Kingfisher.
      1. depressant
        depressant April 30 2021 10: 04
        +3
        Another Japanese submarine, namely I - 26, was also anecdotally noted in an attempt to destroy the lighthouse.
        On June 20, 1942, submarine I-26, sneaking ashore in North America, targeted Eastvan Point on Vancouver Island. Commander Yoketa Minora masterfully guided the boat through the difficult fairway, bringing the shot at a distance.
        But the perfection of the helmsmen was fully compensated for by the complete inability of the Japanese gunners. Having fired 30 shells, they did not achieve a single hit, even on such a clearly visible target as the lighthouse. The sub did not dare to stay on the enemy shores any longer, and hastily fled, retreating to the Japanese shores.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 30 2021 10: 43
          +3
          Good morning, Luda. love
          Here he did not feel any respect for the Japanese sailors, they apparently decided that after Tsushima everyone would be afraid of them, and the "American drunks" drove them into the coffin. Only and the exploits of the sons of Yamato, that the murder of unarmed people.
          1. depressant
            depressant April 30 2021 10: 53
            +1
            Good morning, Kostya! ))))
            It can be seen that the courage and skill of the Japanese is inversely proportional to the distance from their native shores. The farther, the "weaker" and nips at the end.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 30 2021 11: 03
              +3
              I’m not about bravery, but about what they did with the prisoners.
              The commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hess, at least did not eat the liver of the prisoners he killed. True, they hanged it all the same.
              In prison he wrote the book "Death is my trade", I had a chance to read it in my youth.
              1. depressant
                depressant April 30 2021 12: 18
                +3
                Kostya, I've been reading about Detachment 731 for a long time, I can't remember the author of the book. But it seems it was one of two Murakami. There are two of them - Ryu and Haruki. Rather, the latter, he is older. I admit that the author is someone else. Unable and unwilling to savor perversions in the form of insane, cold cruelty, I did not finish reading to the end. In general, for all my admiration for Japanese culture, these people are alien to me. However, as well as their own sadists.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish April 30 2021 12: 30
                  +3
                  Yes, I read about Detachment 731, but today I meant only Japanese sailors. The atrocities of the submarine crews, when the japa survivors after the sinking of ships were chopped into small crumbs with their wicked swords.
                  After the war in Tokyo, in addition to the main trial, there was also a separate trial over the COMMANDS (!!!) of two heavy cruisers "Aoba" and "Tone". They were judged by their allies for what they did during their so-called. "free" raid. You can imagine what it was necessary to get up to judge the teams as a whole, several hundred people. I can't, I don't have enough imagination.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant April 30 2021 12: 59
                    +5
                    Naturally, I also miss her, and went to read the top 15 atrocities committed by the Japanese during World War II. I wish I hadn't. Animals don't behave like that. Animals are killed just to eat. They kill, that's all. And I saw a lot of videos in which it is shown how wild animals of one kind come to the rescue of animals of a different kind. And these ... something outrageous. Judging by their strange literature, they are crazy, everything. Suffice it to say that all natural objects are still endowed with demonic properties. And they have thousands of demons! And they know them all. Apparently, because they themselves are part of the demonic essence of a person, skillfully hidden under an anthropic appearance. We are different with them, we also have it, but so far it is crushed.
                  2. WapentakeLokki
                    WapentakeLokki April 30 2021 20: 47
                    +1
                    and when the amerovsky cap Dudley Morton ... after the sinking of the Japanese transport surfaced and summoned the sailors with Thompson to the bridge and stupidly shot the survivors. or speaking in modern terms ... THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUSINESS .. because history is made by the winners ...
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish April 30 2021 21: 24
                      +1
                      And the fact that the Japanese from boats fired small arms at sailors who were openly standing on the deck of a surfaced boat is nothing, yes, do the rules of war at sea allow this?
                      And Morton, by the way, was an excellent submariner and before his death he did a lot to defeat the common enemy.
                      And it really is ANOTHER BUSINESS.
                      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 30 2021 23: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        And it really is ANOTHER BUSINESS.

                        Of course. Eck's lawyers at the trial in Hamburg also tried to squeeze through as a precedent the shooting by the British in the water of German sailors from the destroyer Z (I don't remember the number offhand). It turned out - yes, this is different. The victor's justice is ruthless in hot pursuit. And to the defeated, the stump, grief and lifelong etsikh with nails are clear.
                        By the way, both lawyers in the U-852 case passed away very quickly. One was hit by a British military truck, the other ... I won't lie - I don't remember.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 1 May 2021 10: 41
                        +2
                        By the way, both lawyers in the U-852 case passed away very quickly. One hit by a British military truck


                        It's like Kamo hit the only car in the city at one time. And, which is typical, it belonged to the head of the local police. laughing
                      3. bubalik
                        bubalik 1 May 2021 12: 39
                        0
                        the other ... I won't lie - I don't remember.
                        ... "hanged himself".
            2. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 16: 46
              +1
              Rudolf Höss, many associate Hess with another famous Nazi
              1. Catfish
                Catfish April 30 2021 17: 15
                +1
                They are not only namesakes, but also namesakes. And how to pronounce it, Hess or Hess, is a matter of taste, we speak Russian here. hi
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 17: 28
                  +1
                  Also true) Although not quite, the commandant of Höß, the envoy of Höß, clarified. That is, one Hess, the other Hess, is probably more correct.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish April 30 2021 18: 08
                    +2
                    Perhaps so, in my opinion it is not important. smile
                    1. Victor Tsenin
                      Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 18: 10
                      0
                      It doesn't matter that one shit is doggy, that the other. He suggested it purely from the observance of the Soviet tradition of writing the names of these creatures.
                    2. Catfish
                      Catfish April 30 2021 18: 14
                      +2
                      Well, at that time we also gave out in every way. Somewhere Nelson was called, I remember, Horeishio, no, it may sound like that in pronunciation, but in Russian, Horatio is still more euphonious, although it's all to the dead man's window. laughing drinks
                    3. Victor Tsenin
                      Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 18: 19
                      0
                      Thunderbolt - Thunderbolt and all that)
                    4. Catfish
                      Catfish April 30 2021 18: 21
                      +1
                      Yes something like that. smile
            3. Doliva63
              Doliva63 April 30 2021 18: 31
              +1
              Quote: Victor Tsenin
              Also true) Although not quite, the commandant of Höß, the envoy of Höß, clarified. That is, one Hess, the other Hess, is probably more correct.

              But Hoess and Hoss would be right. I do not remember that the Germans read H as G.
              1. Victor Tsenin
                Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 18: 35
                0
                He argued with the Soviet tradition of writing, but it is correct, apparently, yes, exactly so.
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine April 30 2021 07: 29
    +8
    Not thrilled with Nimitz as an admiral, but I have always respected this decision.

    There is one more, I think, important nuance. In Nuremberg, among other things, there was the following: politicians were tried, including the military, for the crimes of other politicians. Naturally, in the interests of the military - of any country - it was possible to prevent such a development of events. Naturally, only Nimitz figured it out, American sailors have always been smarter than land ones.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 30 2021 13: 19
      +5
      Well, to hell with them all, let them dream of the Kuril Islands, I hope they get a shish. negative
    2. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin April 30 2021 20: 52
      -4
      Here the message, I believe, is that everything in Hitler's Germany has grown so closely together that anyone is to be judged - anyone is to blame. Reading the postscripts of these persons does not leave the desire to kill their family in the bud.
      Criminal cannibalistic state = criminal nation.
      I will add this, I was visiting Kaliningrad, I met a German guy who was saying forever that we should repent, my answer was this - you geeks will be to blame forever (11 out of 23 brothers laid down their heads in one of the lines of my family in the war) , one of the survivors, Colonel Derevyankin, personally met the respected Yuri Gagarin, there is a photo of his grandfather, Gagarin, Korolev (now considered a so-called Ukrainian by Ukrainian idiots). I saw a German shobla in the same Kaliningrad and, demonstratively, with voice acting shot her like from Volmer, all this muck got scared and retreated.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 1 May 2021 09: 24
        +3
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        Here the message, I suppose, is that in Hitler's Germany everything has grown so closely together

        A totalitarian state implies the participation of the overwhelming majority of citizens in the affairs of the regime. That's why it is totalitarian. By the way, this does not apply to the Reich to the maximum extent.
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        Criminal cannibalistic state = criminal nation.

        If you were born in the USSR, then the statement is very bold.
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        the guy who was saying forever that should we repent

        The idea of ​​repentance for the Reich, as far as I understand, began to force sharply under Brandt, who thus fought the CDU in general and Kiesinger, the 3rd chancellor of the FRG and a member of the NSDAP since the 33rd year, in particular. I have no doubt that this topic is deeply anti-German, like almost everything that Brandt did. So far, this is very far away, but sooner or later the Germans will return to the position that they were just a little unlucky with the dictator. This thought about themselves does not cause any doubts among the rest of the Axis participants, both the Japanese and Italians, and the former inhabitants of the Reich - Bohemians and Austrians.

        Because this is the correct thought. The idea that grandmother Merkel, who was born in Hamburg in 10 years after the war and lived for half her life in the GDR (yes, she was unlucky with her parents), bears some kind of blame for Hitler, is completely insane and would have long been rejected if Merkel for its Soviet years are not rotten through and through.
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 4 May 2021 16: 14
          -1
          > in the affairs of the regime
          In business, yes, in cannibalism, in which Hitler's entire war machine is involved, no.

          > If you were born in the USSR, then the statement is very bold.
          I do not consider the USSR a cannibalistic country and identical to the Reich (by the way, it is this idea that is now being pushed by Western agents of influence, right?).

          > like the Japanese
          Yes, it is for this position that they are adored in the PRC and Korea.

          And I emphasize, they are not guilty for Hitler, they are guilty, like a bloodthirsty nation that industrially exterminated my ancestors in general and my relatives in particular. I will explain this position as convincingly and persistently as possible to any representative of the German people I met.

          P.S. There is an interesting journalist, the leading TG channel fuck you thats why, he met in Germany at the summit of an elderly German who began to broadcast that his father died in Stalingrad. When asked what my father had forgotten in Stalingrad, the German swelled up, turned purple and did not speak anymore. It is very symptomatic and requires action, in my humble opinion.

          P.P.S. 13 brothers were sealed, just noticed)
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 4 May 2021 22: 28
            -1
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            in cannibalism, in which the entire war machine of Hitler is involved, no.

            The Wehrmacht, like the SS troops, is not a criminal organization.
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            I do not consider the USSR a cannibalistic country and identical to the Reich

            Certainly not identical. There has never been such a carnival as in the USSR in the Reich. Maybe they just didn't have time, of course.
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            it is for this position that they are adored in the PRC and Korea.

            The PRC and the DPRK have their own atmosphere, there would not be thinking about the Japanese. In the South Caucasus, everything is fine with this, they live on.
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            I will explain this position as convincingly and persistently as possible to any representative of the German people I met.

            Well, I would like to know when they just start to beat you. Keep in touch.
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            When asked what daddy had forgotten in Stalingrad, the German swelled, turned purple and did not speak anymore.

            Actually, the correct answers were given in due time. But the German left did their best to be forgotten.
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 4 May 2021 22: 38
              -1
              I do not argue with you from the word at all, but having read from cover to cover the book-CC in action, I will not agree on anything. Did you read? If you read it, we will continue communication, not earlier.

              In order to beat me you have to try)
              I am indifferent to the left and right, there is me, there is my people, I hope we understand each other.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 4 May 2021 22: 44
                -1
                Quote: Victor Tsenin
                Did you read? Read

                A reprint of the GDR edition of the 58th year? No, I try not to read the work of political instructors.
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin 4 May 2021 22: 48
                  -1
                  There is no talk about political instructors, there is talk about the extermination of my people. Yours, whoever you are, is not exterminated in the same way. Uman pit, slaves, so-called honey experiments? What do you want to squeeze out of yourself?

                  True, no, I'm lying, the Chinese, the ugly Japanese, exterminated even more.
  • bubalik
    bubalik April 30 2021 09: 20
    +4
    British military transport "Nova Scotia", on board which were 800 prisoners of war and internees Italians. Fearing a repeat of the Laconia incident, the BdU ordered the submarines not to undertake rescue operations. The U-177 attack on November 28 killed 858 of the 1052 on board.
    ",, The German crew was shocked by the scenes in the water, when the survivors tried to climb aboard the submarine to escape the sharks in the water."

    At 12.32 "Liberator" Harden attacks U-156

  • depressant
    depressant April 30 2021 10: 49
    0
    The problem of manifesting humanism towards the defeated enemy in different historical periods was solved in different ways. The idea to introduce relations in the war into some at least decent framework belongs to Nicholas II. On his initiative, the first peace conference was convened in The Hague in 1898, and then, in 1907, the second.
    There, in particular, in the "Convention on the conversion of merchant ships to military courts" has found its place Article 2. Merchant ships, converted to military, must wear the external distinguishing marks of military courts of their nationality.
    But this is the first thing that raiders and smugglers did!

    According to the convention "On the Setting of Underwater, Automatically Exploding
    from Contact Ming "it was forbidden to place anchored, automatically exploding mines from contact, which are not made safe as soon as they fall off their mines.

    Or here's another: It is forbidden to place mines automatically exploding from contact near the enemy's coasts and ports with the sole purpose of interrupting merchant shipping.
    Has anyone followed through?
    The Convention on the Bombing of Coastal Objects by Ships prohibited shelling civilians and refraining from damaging cultural and historical sites and monuments.

    With regard to the actions of submarines, an annex to the London Protocol of November 6, 1936, was developed at the same time, which was ignored by almost everyone both during the First World War and during the Second World War. According to this appendix, "a submarine can sink an enemy's merchant ship (after proper warning), but under the obligatory condition - first deliver passengers, crew and ship papers to a safe place."

    Therefore, the case described in Roman's article is almost out of the ordinary. And it was possible because the aviation radars that drove the boats to the depth were not yet in use. But it is all the more indicative that anti-submarine aviation often drowned, including its submariners.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim April 30 2021 11: 23
      +4
      The idea to introduce relations in the war into some at least decent framework belongs to Nicholas II. On his initiative, the first peace conference was convened in The Hague in 1898, and then, in 1907, the second.

      This is not his idea.

      Very selective - some points.
      The first documented ideas to introduce relationships in war into some at least decent framework are found in the Mahabharata and the Old Testament.
      De jure belli ac pacis libri tres ("Three books on the law of war and peace") is a treatise by Hugo Grotius on the legal foundations of war, which was published in 1625 in Paris with a dedication to Louis XIII and formed the basis of modern international law. Further, his ideas were developed by Samuel Pufendorf, Christian Thomasius, Emer de Vatel.
      First Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field - 1864
      1874 Draft International Declaration on the Laws and Customs of War (Brussels Declaration). Signed in Brussels on 27 August. This agreement never entered into force, but formed the basis for the codification of the laws of war at the Hague Peace Conference of 1899. Initiated by Russia (Alexander II). Participants - Germany, Austria-Hungary, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, USA, France, Great Britain, Iran, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Turkey, Sweden.
      In the same 1874, the Institute of International Law appointed a committee to study the Brussels Declaration and submit to the Institute its opinion and additional proposals on this matter. The work of the Institute led to the adoption of the Manual in 1880, which later became part of the basis for the codification of the laws of war at the 1899 Hague Peace Conference.
      Nicholas II got everything ready.
      1. depressant
        depressant April 30 2021 13: 05
        +2
        Victor Nikolaevich, dear, who would doubt your erudition! )))
        Thank you for the clarification. Frankly, I myself was somewhat surprised: Nicholas II, an inveterate killer of stray cats and birds, and suddenly - such a humanist! I also thought: what was it, why would it suddenly.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim April 30 2021 13: 13
          +2
          who would doubt

          And you have to doubt!
          Doubt is a fundamental difference between thinking and non-thinking nature, philosophical doubt is, in fact, the initial stage of creative revision of old knowledge or opinion. It is an obligatory, albeit transient, stage in the ascent of the human mind to the discovery of higher truths.
          1. depressant
            depressant April 30 2021 13: 23
            +1
            You're right! But, strange to say, in some matters doubts come to me after a fairly long period of time and they do it themselves. I forgot about the phenomenon, and they, doubts, are like living entities: "Do you remember? So this is all wrong!"))))
            1. Undecim
              Undecim April 30 2021 13: 26
              +2
              This suggests that you have scientific and philosophical thinking.
        2. Obliterator
          Obliterator April 30 2021 21: 55
          +2
          Quote: depressant
          Frankly, I myself was somewhat surprised: Nicholas II, an inveterate killer of stray cats and birds, and suddenly - such a humanist! I also thought: what was it, why would it suddenly.

          Nobody forced him to do this anyway. He was a humanist, often even to the detriment of the state.
          1. depressant
            depressant April 30 2021 22: 58
            0
            I suppose, colleague, is this humor? )))
            It turns out strange, right? Here lived such a kind of nice person, an exemplary family man, in fact, none, without any special signs, but he launched a new round of the historical spiral. To achieve this, one had to try hard, and no special efforts are visible. But this is exactly how it turns out - I did not do this, this, the tenth, and the spiral of history straightens out, jumps out and hits. Scary from associations.
            1. Obliterator
              Obliterator 1 May 2021 00: 06
              0
              Quote: depressant
              I suppose, colleague, is this humor? )))

              Nope. The fact of the matter is that if he were not a humanist, and thus Bloody, no one would have thrown him off.
  • Undecim
    Undecim April 30 2021 11: 45
    +5
    The main reason is believed to be the intercession of US Navy Admiral Chester Nimitz, who was summoned as a consultant witness on submarine warfare.

    The author, according to his habit, composes on the go.
    Nobody invited Nimitz anywhere. Doenitz's lawyer, Dr. Otto Kranzbühler, insisted on obtaining evidence that the unrestricted submarine war was waged by both Britain and the United States.
    Relevant inquiries were sent, to which written replies were received from the British Admiralty and from Nimitz, as Commander-in-Chief of the US Pacific Fleet, confirming that both Britain and the United States had acted accordingly.
    On July 2, 1946, Dr. Kranzbühler read out the responses of Nimitz and the Admiralty as evidence.
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash April 30 2021 14: 25
    0
    An interesting article, of course, I did not know such details. Not too surprised by the behavior of the allies, the bombing of the cities of Germany and Japan with incendiary bombs is worth a lot.
    Correctly noted by the author, the winner writes the story.
  • NF68
    NF68 April 30 2021 16: 48
    +1
    As far as I know, Charles Lockwood was the first to intercede for Doenitz - from the beginning of 1943 he commanded the American submarine fleet in the Pacific Ocean, offering to hang him, Lockwood as one with Doenitz, since American submariners largely repeated how the German submariners fought. And Nimitz openly supported Lockwood.