Military Review

The "terrible secret" of Russian swords and Oakeshott's typology in miniatures

117
The "terrible secret" of Russian swords and Oakeshott's typology in miniatures
The sword was weapons and for settling the scores of the nobility, whether two-handed or one-handed, he helped protect "honor and right." Not without reason, who entered the knightly brotherhood, was girded with a sword. A still from the film "Secrets of the Burgundian Court".


“And what were the swords in Russia? They say a lot about the Europeans, but they are silent about the Russians.
- It's a conspiracy! We, the authors, have sworn this secret not to reveal to anyone!
If we describe swords in terms of typology, then yes, boring, monotonous and uninteresting.
- Vyacheslav Olegovich! Subterfuge will not help !!! We are waiting, sir !!! "
(From the correspondence on the site)

"... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
(Matthew 10: 38)

History weapons. I'll start with a small lyrical digression. Such writings as the very first, taken into the epigraph, about Russian swords were always surprising. It would seem that in the age of the Internet, this is generally impossible. Well, you, type in the search engine "Russian swords" or "articles and books about Russian melee weapons", or "dissertations on Russian melee weapons", or A. N. Kirpichnikov "Russian swords of the XI-XIII centuries", or A. N Kirpichnikov, AF Medvedev "Armament". And you will have so many things that you can not contradict to read. But - no, it is necessary to write obvious stupidity, just to write.

Personally, I am not interested in this topic and here's why.

At one time, back in the 70s of the last century, I read many works of authors of that time about ancient Russian weapons. Written in heavy, purely scientific language. I made my way through their jungle, and made a number of conclusions for myself, one of which is not to write on this topic. And to give links to these fundamental, "Soviet", extremely reliable research. Because ... Whoever needs it, he can do it. And those who are used to jumping on the tops do not need this: they will open and close.

By the way, I can say the same about myself. I am interested in interesting (funny pun - interested in interesting) topics that are little known to our reader, information on which does not require hard work. And so that there is a beautiful, visual visual series that pleasantly enlivens any dry text. There is no such thing - in front of you, dear, the Internet. And it contains dissertations, monographs, and articles in the journal "Soviet Archeology" - you go there!


This is nothing more than in a very generalized form (and we don’t need more in a popular essay!) A diagram of the typology of swords by Ewart Oakeshott, taken from the book by Thomas Laible “Sword. Great Illustrated Encyclopedia ". M .: Omega, 2011. S. 26. It is good because it allows you to very clearly imagine the evolution of European swords from the XNUMXth to the XNUMXth century.

The fact is that there is actually a lot of information on Russian swords.
Archaeologists have excavated 30 thousand kurgan complexes (!) And compiled a detailed card index of all the complexes in which armor and weapons of the 1300th – 120th centuries were discovered. And there are 40 burials and 7000 more settlements in it. Moreover, 500 domestic and some foreign museums have finds from them: in total, more than XNUMX items of weapons and military equipment of the XNUMXth - first half of the XNUMXth centuries, found during excavations in more than XNUMX settlements.

The weapons found on the territory of Russia are documented by at least 85–90%. In total, the same Kirpichnikov recorded artifacts and their fragments (now there are more): swords - 183, scramasaxes - 10, daggers - 5, sabers - 150, spearheads - 750, almost tips of sulits - 50, battle axes - 570 and about 1000 workers, maces (and six-fighters) - 100, 130 flails, thousands of arrowheads and about 50 crossbow bolts. And also parts of complex bows, quivers and other accessories for a bow or crossbow. Of the armor, 37 helmets, 112 chain mail, separate parts of 26 plate and scale armor (270 elements in total) are cataloged. And also bracers and knee pads. And 23 fragments from shields. Horse equipment: bit - 570, individual parts - 32 headbands (700 parts), horse mask, the remains of 31 saddles (130 parts), 430 stirrups, almost 590 spurs, 50 parts of whips.

Well, those interested can read about all this in the most detailed way in the following works:

Kirpichnikov A. N. "On the beginning of the production of swords in Russia" // Proceedings of the VI International Congress of Slavic Archeology. T.4., M., 1998.S. 246–251
Kirpichnikov A. N. "Old Russian weapons". Issue 1. Swords and sabers of the 1th – 36th centuries (SAI. Issue E1966–XNUMX), M.–L., XNUMX
Kirpichnikov A. N. The most ancient Russian signature sword // Soviet archeology, 1965, no. 3.


There are interesting dissertations, and not Soviet times, but today:

"History of research of the technology of production of weapons in Medieval Russia" - thesis and abstract of the HAC RF 07.00.10, Candidate of Historical Sciences Petrakov, Timur Valerievich, Moscow, 2016
"The development of weapons in Russia in the X - early XVI century: main trends and features" - thesis and abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Grubin, Ilya Valentinovich, Moscow, 2008.


So it is not necessary, flaunting your own ignorance, to write that "no one writes." You ... With the Internet you need work and you will be happy! Moreover, all this is in Russian. I can agree that working with foreign-language websites of museums, libraries and universities is much more difficult.


"Viking sword". Dating of the British Royal Arsenal 875-1030. Moreover, the sword is for children, and the surviving medieval European children's swords are very rare. This artifact, possibly the earliest known, was found in the Seine River near Rouen. It may have belonged to one of the descendants of the Vikings, perhaps one of the Normans who controlled the city in 911. At that time, boys of noble birth were encouraged to play with swords. Nine-year-old Henry VI received eight swords at once in 1430, "some more and less to teach the king to play at his tender age." But it wasn't just the game. Edward III was 14 when he fought the Scots in 1327, while Edward, the "Black Prince", "won his spurs" at the Battle of Crecy in 1346 at the age of 16. And it wasn't just boys: Joan of Arc fought and was wounded in Orleans in 1429 at the age of about 17. Children's weapons are difficult to identify with certainty, but the short blade and, most importantly, the hilt make this sword just such an item.

Swords in the mounds of the XI-XII centuries. found rarely. Kirpichnikov explains this by the fact that not a sword, but a spear and an ax were the main weapons of battle. In doing so, he refers to sources such as miniatures and chronicles. And to this it is impossible to add anything new. In total, seven swords were found in the burials, some were found by chance, and most of them were found during excavations of southern Russian cities that perished during the Mongol invasion (for example, only in Kiev, 8-9 swords were found). This means that this weapon belongs to the XIII century.

In addition, the finds show that swords of all types were known in Russia, which were used at that time in Western Europe, and swords with a disc-shaped pommel prevailed. The sword in the burial is also rare because of the Christian burial rite. Only pagans endow the dead with household items. As for the photographs of all these, then ... on them we can mainly see rusty scrap metal, which is not at all interesting to a layman.

Such is the "fundamental" entry turned out.

And now it makes sense to talk about the typology of Ewart Oakeshott and its reflection in medieval miniatures. The most interesting thing is that by profession he was not a historian, but an amateur and amateur. But he began to collect and study medieval swords and succeeded in this business. Became a specialist! He published many articles and three monographs, which became the foundation for all subsequent work in this area. But most importantly, he created a typology of swords, which is based on the features of the shape of the blade and its proportions, that is, on the ratio of the size of the blade and the handle. It is clear that it is quite complex scientifically. It has its own "formula", types, subtypes and families. But in general, it is quite simple: swords from 1050 to 1350 are for cutting, swords from 1350 to 1550 are for thrusting. The first are against chain mail. The second are against lat. At different times, the blades differed in their cross-section, and the handles - in the length and shape of the pommel. And… that's it!


Sword 1000-1200 Royal Arsenal. The blade is straight, double-edged, with a wide fuller on each edge, extending from the handle almost to the point. Crosshair made of square bars; the shank tapers to a heavy hive-shaped pommel. The sword is highly corroded and is obviously a dug item. Dimensions: length: 965 mm, blade length: 805 mm. Weight: 1275 g. For details see: E. Oakeshott, Archeology of Weapons, reprint 1st ed. 1960 [with additions, including tables], Boydell Press, Woodbridge, 1994, pp. 34.

Now let's turn to miniatures from medieval manuscripts. And let's see what they can tell us?

Here is a miniature from the famous Stuttgart Psalter. On it are warriors with swords very similar to ... the swords of the Vikings, although we have typical Franks in front of us. And the thing is that, although such swords are called "by the people" "the swords of the Vikings," they appeared in the Frankish empire during the Carolingian era. It's just that these swords in Christian France of the VIII century disappeared from the funeral inventory, but the bulk of Frankish-made blades of this time was found in the pagan burials of the Viking age in Scandinavia. But in continental Europe, these are accidental finds mainly in river beds. E. Oakeshott classifies them as "type X", although their pommels, of course, could be different.


Miniature from the Stuttgard Psalter, dated to 801–850. Paris, France. State Library of Württemberg

Under Charlemagne, the price of such a sword (traditionally called "spata" or "long sword"), together with the scabbard, cost seven solidi (today about 1300 US dollars). That is, it was a relatively expensive weapon, although not as exclusive as in the days of the Merovingians. Charlemagne pointed out in his capitularies that as soon as a man could keep a war horse, then he should also have armor and a sword. That is, by the end of the XNUMXth century, the sword became a rider's weapon along with a spear.


"David kills Goliath." Here, the sword is clearly visible, and how the scabbard was arranged and how it was worn. Miniature from the Stuttgard Psalter, dated to 801–850. Paris, France. State Library of Württemberg

Many swords of the 90th century, belonging to the "type X", were issued with an inscription on the blade "Ulfbert". Typically, these swords are 77 cm long. The blade is about 1,3 cm long and weighs about XNUMX kg.


This picture is from the Lamentation of Jeremiah manuscript 1150–1200. Austria, also represented by the sword "type X". But he is already clearly a transitional form to later swords. And most importantly, note that the author of the miniature painted inscriptions on the blades. They were very popular at the time. Walters Museum of Art, Baltimore, Maryland Headquarters, USA


The iconic miniature "Killing of Babies" from the "Psalter of Ingeborg", 1195. North of France. Here is the "type Ha" sword. Condé Museum, located in the Chantilly castle in the commune of Chantilly (Oise department), 40 kilometers north of Paris

The "Ha" swords became longer, the valleys were narrower, and they were made from the 112th to the 1,4th century. Some swords are very long (you can see it in the miniature too!) And reach a length of XNUMX cm. Weight is about XNUMX kg. According to Oakeshott, it is a sword of the transition period from the Viking Age to the "knightly sword".

We now turn to the classics of images of the medieval war of the XIII century - "The Bible of the Crusader", it is the "Bible of Saint Louis" (or as they used to say: "Holy Father") or "The Bible of Matsievsky". Apparently, the author of the miniatures was a warrior himself, knew military affairs in detail and did his best. He even painted the wounds on the horses' sides, caused by spurs, and even then he painted all the weapons and armor in his miniatures and could not count. Moreover, there are very original copies. However, our main thing today is swords. And here they are in front of us in the illustrations from this manuscript ...


This miniature shows a "Type XI" sword. The sword's effectiveness is, of course, amazing. Chain mail is cut by them only in this way ... "The Bible of Matsievsky", 1224–1254. Paris, France. Pierpont Morgan Library

Oakeshott's XI blade is 85–95 cm long and has a distinct edge. It belongs mainly to the XNUMXth century. But ... "the main one." That is, if not "main", then they could be applied later.


This miniature (the leftmost figure) shows "type XIa". As you can see, it is somewhat lighter and shorter. Has narrower valleys. The blades themselves are shorter but wider. "The Bible of Matsievsky", 1224-1254 Paris, France. Pierpont Morgan Library


Sword 1250-1300 "Type XII", middle of the XIII century. The handle of this sword has a small disc-shaped copper alloy pommel. The crosshair, also of copper alloy, has cracked bell ends. Both the inner and outer edges of the ends of the cross are decorated with curls and reliefs. The short, double-edged blade ends in a sharp point. Sword length: 806 mm, blade length 658 mm. Weight 730 g. Royal arsenal. Leeds

Let us emphasize that all these swords are chopping. Departure from this destination would start with Type XII.

But we will tell about them and all that followed next time.

To be continued ...
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 May 2021 05: 36
    +13
    Thank you Vyacheslav, otherwise I have already poked my head into the heading of history and felt sad - getting ready to "suck a paw" !!!
    But the moderators and you have corrected my sadness! Thanks again!!!
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 4 May 2021 06: 47
      +8
      "And reread" The Marriage of Figaro "" (c).
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 4 May 2021 10: 35
      +5
      Hello, hello! smile
      Here, side by side, is an excellent article by Sergei Linnik about the Japanese anti-aircraft artillery. So there is sho to read and the moderators did not leave us with attention. And in history - yes - the kingdom of the Samsonovs. drinks
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 4 May 2021 15: 00
        +4
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Hello, hello! smile
        Here, side by side, is an excellent article by Sergei Linnik about the Japanese anti-aircraft artillery. So there is sho to read and the moderators did not leave us with attention. And in history - yes - the kingdom of the Samsonovs. drinks

        To summarize: scientific history was transferred to the arms section drinks
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 4 May 2021 15: 33
          +2
          They are always there, like potatoes and onions. smile
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 4 May 2021 18: 29
            +1
            Well Duc ... all periods of history are divided not by scientific discoveries, but by revolution and wars negative
            1. dauria
              dauria 5 May 2021 01: 24
              +1
              .all periods of history are not divided by scientific discoveries,

              Come on. There is also an "era of great geographical discoveries", "an era of renaissance." This is the scale of the entire planet, the history of mankind. And little things like "cut off the queen's head" or "showed a fig to our tsar" are interesting to a particular country. The rest don't give a damn about who was the king or the president.
              The whole world knows the Beatles, and who was before and after President Nixon?
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 4 May 2021 05: 37
    +4
    Judging by the numbers, the club was popular smile
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 4 May 2021 12: 16
      +4
      Of course - it's cheap and angry: the sword is still open, but the club can be found at every step
  3. Sibguest
    Sibguest 4 May 2021 06: 20
    +2
    "... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
    It was not like this: "... I did not come to bring peace, but a dream to the world."
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 4 May 2021 15: 03
      +1
      Quote: Sibguest
      "... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
      It was not like this: "... I did not come to bring peace, but a dream to the world."

      Only it was said in Aramaic or Hebrew request It doesn't work that way in these languages laughing
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 4 May 2021 06: 36
    +8
    I would never have thought that we also have such a variety of them (swords)!
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
  5. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 4 May 2021 06: 47
    +7
    Quote: Sibguest
    "... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
    It was not like this: "... I did not come to bring peace, but a dream to the world."

    Do you know the Holy Scripture?
    1. Puzoter
      Puzoter 4 May 2021 14: 33
      +4
      In the original language, it seems. You need to have a rich imagination to turn a sword into a dream.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 4 May 2021 15: 04
        +2
        Quote: puzoter
        In the original language, it seems. You need to have a rich imagination to turn a sword into a dream.

        Herev (sword), Halom or Khazon (dream) - somehow it’s not right repeat
  6. Korsar4
    Korsar4 4 May 2021 06: 54
    +4
    The solida course interested in our time. The middle class may well strum in their pockets.

    As for interest, they are all different. Someone is interested in thoroughness, someone - funny anecdotes.

    But you can't write a book without long-term interest - you can only pull it off.
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 10: 54
      +4
      Quote: Korsar4
      But you can't write a book without long-term interest - you can only pull it off.

      Sergey! You just need a clear plan and write two pages a day. True, if this is a work of fiction, it does not always help. The heroes begin to live their own lives. But in this case, 2 pages a day is obligatory. And you will have a book!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 4 May 2021 11: 33
        +4
        I rarely get more than a page. And then you cross it out.

        Once the incentive was that he met his student. He says: “I have a challenge. Write a poem and a drawing to it on the day. "

        Attached to myself. He began to write on the page.
        Only still have to correct and cross out.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 4 May 2021 13: 32
          +5
          Hi Sergey! * Challenge * in modern slang, what is this? Sorry in advance for being old-fashioned.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 4 May 2021 15: 02
            +3
            Hello Seryozha! This is a challenge to yourself - to do what you have planned, and no nails. Let the youth correct, if not.
        2. kalibr
          4 May 2021 15: 19
          +3
          That's why you need two. Better yet, take 8000 characters as a rule!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 4 May 2021 19: 03
            +3
            This is already a craft. At least 4 hours are needed, without distraction.
            1. depressant
              depressant 4 May 2021 19: 49
              +1
              This is the truth: "not being distracted by anything." And the heroes will heal, just have time to write down after them. For example, "not being distracted" for me personally is possible only after 12 at night. I envy those who are free for creativity. Alas, alas!
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 4 May 2021 20: 06
                +1
                Pliny the Elder and Olesha: "Not a day without a line." They did it.

                Here is the question of what can be convincingly said.
                1. depressant
                  depressant 4 May 2021 20: 30
                  +1
                  And there is also a manner of presentation and methods of adding the necessary knowledge in a row. They are developed when there is not a day without a line. And then not a day without a line, so as not to lose them.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 4 May 2021 20: 48
                    +1
                    Yes. There is simply a stage of material accumulation, processing.
                    And when there is a deadline, and it is approaching, it's time to write.

                    However, a notebook in your bag will always come in handy.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 4 May 2021 20: 58
                      +2
                      That's right, notepad! )))
                      There was a period when I had to wander a lot to the regional center and fiddle with documents. And, imagine, Sergei, I’m standing in line to the right door, and then there were long queues at those doors, which now are not - no doors, no queues, and it was at this moment that enlightenment descended, there is a handle, and, besides documents, there is another no paper. And the reverse side of one of the photocopies was used, then I had to run, additionally shoot - they did not accept the paper, they saw it! I was ready to give it up, there was mathematics, which I naturally remembered, but the state ladies did not agree with her)))
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 4 May 2021 21: 03
                        +1
                        Habit with chess games.

                        In the field, of course, with you.

                        And then I drive for the train.
                        I wrote three diaries relatively quickly.
                        The fourth is not in a hurry.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 4 May 2021 21: 21
                        +2
                        I used to buy diaries the size of a book, good ones, in real leather bindings, I took them with me in order to follow my own instructions and as reminders, but I quickly discovered that I don’t care about dates, the need to make plans for the day, the week did not arise, dates cheered, and these diaries went into business as drafts, gradually replaced by thick packs of expensive office paper, and then - "Consumer paper, 500 sheets", cheap. I will tell you this, incredible convenience, a couple of folded sheets and a pen - always in my pocket, wherever I go.
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 4 May 2021 22: 05
                        +1
                        And there is.
                        Only paper is a draft. And the diary (the fewer dates, the better) is not just a draft.

                        And a pen in your pocket - like an agronomist.
                      4. depressant
                        depressant 4 May 2021 22: 31
                        +1
                        Do agronomists carry pens with them? Dont know )))
                      5. depressant
                        depressant 4 May 2021 22: 49
                        +1
                        That is:

                        The agronomist wandered around the field -
                        All spikelets in the notebook!
                        The storm of his wing hmm ... darkness,
                        The field was ripe with melancholy.

                        Written in the margins of the draft on the topic "Extraneous equality of connectivity" - that is still a bloodletting topic! wassat
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 5 May 2021 01: 36
                        +1
                        It's good that the darkness. And then there could be options.

                        Is there an article out?
                        I find it difficult to assess how "equality of connectivity" is interpreted.

                        And in general, to arithmetic - with respect.
                        Probably, I can understand the statistics of variation.
                        And the rest is a dark forest.
                      7. depressant
                        depressant 5 May 2021 08: 25
                        +1
                        Mighty forests rustle, hiding the truth from the people ...
                        Good morning Sergey! Greetings to all!
                      8. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 5 May 2021 08: 35
                        0
                        Good morning, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
                        Sure. Is it possible for the uninitiated into the mysteries of mathematics?
                      9. depressant
                        depressant 5 May 2021 08: 47
                        +1
                        Doubts do not color the philosopher! )))
                        Life is best practice. She shows - everyone can do anything!
                      10. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 5 May 2021 08: 54
                        0
                        “I go to master's degrees, to doctors,
                        And I've been driving by the nose for ten years
                        Students, like a literary expert,
                        Interpreting this and that thing.
                        But this knowledge cannot give.
                        And this conclusion gnaws at the heart "(c).
                      11. depressant
                        depressant 5 May 2021 09: 14
                        +1
                        Even though I'm smarter than many grips
                        Doctors, priests and lawyers,
                        They were as if all were beguiled by a devil
                        Well, I will not be taken aback by the devil, -
                        But I also know the value of myself,
                        I am not amused by an arrogant thought,
                        That I am the light of the human race
                        And the world is entrusted to my departure.
                        I have not gained honor and goodness
                        And I did not taste what life is sharp. (C)
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 5 May 2021 01: 31
            0
            I am convinced.

            Of course, O'Henry had an example, when the farmer remained a farmer in his heart.
          3. depressant
            depressant 5 May 2021 08: 52
            +1
            The story was not read. O'Henry's book was read many times in childhood. Either I did not understand the story, or that book was published at the time of the agrarian at the top of power. So that, without a hint.
          4. Korsar4
            Korsar4 5 May 2021 08: 56
            +1
            "Entertainment of the modern village". And in the movie it was shown well.
          5. depressant
            depressant 5 May 2021 09: 16
            +1
            And the film has not been watched. Taking up life makes you lose a lot in it.
          6. Korsar4
            Korsar4 5 May 2021 11: 37
            +1
            Life is definitely more important. You can take the book with you. And the films were at school age. Then life began in many forms.
          7. depressant
            depressant 5 May 2021 12: 06
            +2
            It began and began to rapidly pass by. You just focus on a moment, so that you can realize it with a slow human brain, but it is no longer there - a moment. Yes, and the removed brain - too))).
            I am amazed at the knife fighting specialists.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 4 May 2021 07: 41
    +8
    Good morning . I accidentally opened it: "Armament", and here is Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    Swords do not matter to me, but companionship attracts
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 4 May 2021 08: 43
    +4
    Thanks for your time with us. Extremely interesting and informative. At the same time, it is laconic and to the point.
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 08: 48
      +6
      It paid off completely, Aaron! You would know how many interesting materials I have looked at ... This is only the first article, and two more will follow. That's for sure. And more ... I don't know yet, but it will be.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 4 May 2021 08: 48
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        It paid off completely, Aaron! You would know how many interesting materials I have looked at ... This is only the first article, and two more will follow. That's for sure. And more ... I don't know yet, but it will be.

        Thanks again. hi
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 4 May 2021 10: 40
        +5
        Hi, Vyacheslav! hi
        To be honest, I've always been quite moderately interested in "ancient hardware", but it's (traditionally) interesting to read you, and a selection of high-quality and efficient illustrations always gives your articles a special charm. good
        Thank you. drinks
        1. kalibr
          4 May 2021 10: 51
          +5
          Dear Konstantin! I thought for a long time about the second material, how to make it as "charming". And he came up with - you will see next time ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 4 May 2021 10: 54
            +2
            We will wait and thanks in advance. smile
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 4 May 2021 11: 58
            +4
            Q. Oh, you are good at filing material. This cannot be taken away from you.
            I would like to know: what is the material about? Then it would be possible to prepare, otherwise I am in the position: "naked among the wolves"
            1. kalibr
              4 May 2021 12: 05
              +4
              Look what you are! Tell you everything ... It will not be interesting. But so be it. The material, of course, is about the miniature swords. There will be many beautiful miniatures from medieval manuscripts.
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 4 May 2021 12: 19
                +4
                Thank you, maybe I will find or remember something related to the topic
  • Operator
    Operator 4 May 2021 09: 00
    +2
    There are few swords in East Slavic burials dating back to the 13th century, not only because of the predominance of foot soldiers armed with axes, but also because of the value of any metalwork during this period.

    The work of Russian historians should not end with paper monographs - a spectral analysis of swords and other metal products is also required to establish the geography of iron ore mining, as well as DNA analysis for the belonging of bone remains to a particular haplogroup and subclade.

    With 30 thousand excavated burials, the work of domestic researchers of metal and DNA is clearly endless.
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 09: 49
      +9
      There is a laboratory of metallographic analysis at the Russian Academy of Sciences RAF. Previously, it was led by the famous scientist Cherny, who now I do not know. DNA is not always found with swords, and in the 50s they were not interested in this at all. There are a lot of random finds that have not been cataloged.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 4 May 2021 15: 10
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      It also requires a spectral analysis of swords and other metal products for establishing the geography of iron ore mining, as well as DNA analysis for the belonging of bone remains to a particular haplogroup and subclade.

      With 30 thousand excavated burials, the work of domestic researchers of metal and DNA is clearly endless.

      Quite right - Black Sea Coens - Aryans are waiting for the truth, blatantly refuted by the standard genetic tests of this subgroup laughing
      1. Operator
        Operator 4 May 2021 17: 19
        -4
        You will jinx it someday: you will be sent to Tel Aviv to study the Coens in nature on the coffin of life bully
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 4 May 2021 18: 01
          +1
          While studying the Black Sea lol
  • vladcub
    vladcub 4 May 2021 11: 45
    +4
    "Jean d, Ark fought and was wounded in Orleans" 17 year old and wielding a sword. This is something.
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 12: 08
      +4
      When the armor was made for her, she wore it for two weeks without taking off. I even slept in them (at least that's what her biographer writes), but then I didn't even feel their weight. And her sword was found in some cathedral with three crosses on the blade. Well, rumor immediately attributed to him a wonderful power that this is the same sword with which Karl Martell expelled the Arabs from France!
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 4 May 2021 12: 32
        +3
        "I even slept in them" is a very reasonable approach .. But all the same, the girl, by the way, is not the largest, 17 and she wields a sword.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 4 May 2021 16: 59
        +2
        "to whom Karl Martell expelled the Arabs from France" if possible in more detail: who is Martell, when did this happen?
        1. Richard
          Richard 4 May 2021 19: 59
          +1
          Greetings, dear Vera. hi type in the search engine - Reconquista Chronology. It will be interesting.

          Here something else is more curious - it seems that tolerant Europeans are again stepping on the same rake. Indeed, by and large, then the Arabs did not invade Europe by force of arms. This happened only later, when they gained enough strength. And initially the Europeans brought them to themselves. History apparently teaches them nothing:
          710g. Aguila, the son of Vititsa, deposed from the throne by Roderich, asks for help from the Arab governor of Ifriqiya, Musa ibn Nusair. Oppa (Archbishop of Seville and Agila's uncle) and Count Don Julian, Governor of Ceuta serve as intermediaries. The latter provides the Arabs with their ships. Berbers land on the European coast of the Strait of Gibraltar.
          A detachment of Arabs was commanded by Tarif ibn Malluk.
          711, April (end of month). Tariq bin Ziyad, leaves Tangier (Tangja - Arab.) At the head of an army of 7000 people (almost all Berbers and about 300 Arabs), which is soon joined by another detachment of 5000. Count don Julian (governor Ceuta (Septum - visa.). Tariq lands in Gibraltar (Jabal al-Tariq - Arab.) (Mount Tariq), where he sets up a camp and establishes a small fortress, which he plans to make a stronghold (the future city of Al-Jazeera Al-Hadri, Green Island, present-day Algeciras.) Troops of Vititsa's sons and Gothic nobles join the army of Tariq and begin to move towards Toledo (Tulaytula - Arab.) After a week of continuous skirmishes, the Visigothic army escapes in disorder. King Roderich is missing (possibly drowned) The Berbers receive their reward for helping Vitica's sons, but they flatly refuse to leave Europe. swarm of Arabs Mukhrit ar-Rumi capture Cordoba.
          713, April. "Teodomiro Agreement" (Tudmir - Arab.). The Gothic Count Teodomiro, ruler of a region in southeastern Spain (the area around present-day Alicante), negotiates with Abd al-Aziz. In the treaty they sign, Teodomiro accepts the power and protection of the new rulers with a corresponding tax obligation, and also on the condition that he and his people are guaranteed the freedom to practice Christianity. The agreement unites seven cities and ends with the clarification of taxation figures. Under the same treaty, Egilon, the widow of the Vesigoth king Roderich, was transferred to the harem of Abd al-Aziz. Declaring that Egilon is now his wife, Abd al-Aziz makes claims on the entire Visigoth state. Jaen (Jaen - Arab.), Granada (Garnatu - Arab.), Sagunto, Sevilla, Osilis, Zaragoza (Medinasel) are seized under the rule of the Arabs. An Arab state appears in Europe. New Arab troops arrive on the European continent. The conquest of Portugal, Andalusia, and the southeast of Spain takes place.

          ... So Vera, be careful, and tell all your friends, with whom you read VO together, so that you do not invite Arabs into your house - then you will be tortured to expel yes
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 5 May 2021 11: 11
            +1
            Thank you for the advice, but we, regardless of nationality (now we have 4 nationalities: Russians, Armenian, Moldovan, Adyghe) least of all want such guests.
            We are still friends with our heads
      3. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 4 May 2021 20: 40
        0
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, probably the armor of Jeanne d, Ark disappeared without a trace? She was immediately a prisoner of the Duke Karl of Burgundy and could they sell them?
        At the same time: Jeanne was too famous to disappear without a trace
        1. kalibr
          4 May 2021 21: 12
          0
          Quote: Astra wild2
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, probably the armor of Jeanne d, Ark disappeared without a trace? She was immediately a prisoner of the Duke Karl of Burgundy and could they sell them?
          At the same time: Jeanne was too famous to disappear without a trace

          I don't know anything about it.
  • Mark kalendarov
    Mark kalendarov 4 May 2021 14: 05
    +3
    Typology is very informative. But will it be said about production ?? !!
    After all, the difference between a sword that was in service in Russia and a sword made in Russia is enormous ...
    All the best to everyone!
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 15: 14
      +2
      It will also be about production. You saw the link to the dissertation ...
  • Basarev
    Basarev 4 May 2021 14: 10
    +1
    Clickbait again. No terrible secrets, no Russian swords. One classification tediousness with annalistic miniatures.
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 15: 16
      +3
      Quote: Basarev
      no Russian swords

      Are you not literate? The article says it all. References to literature are given. EVERYTHING! Then you open the Internet and read MEDVEDEV AND KIRPICHNIKOV. Scan the title of the job with one click, then drag, paste and click "Search". And it will open to you!
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 4 May 2021 15: 27
        +2
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, there is another form of material presentation. type:
        Sensation! According to the finds of the Ra1 gallogroup, according to the RUS marker, the ancestor of the katana was derived a sword-kladinets!
        Genetic traces of Ilya Muromets, the founder of Ken-do, have been found in Kyoto!
        Subscribe to our Telegram Channel - Bogatyr-san.tzargrad fellow
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 4 May 2021 19: 05
          +2
          Bent on the road?
          Or will there be a natural typological series depending on the continentality of the climate?
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 4 May 2021 19: 25
            +2
            Sword kladenets - use from minus 50 to plus 60 Celsius. Climate-independent, compact to carry, organ-preserving, including mini invasive resections! Technology of joint development of x'Aryans and Rasens! WiFi, Blue Tous, 4G port!
            And now there is a discount - for only 3 thousand unsecured US dollars, a blade signed by Viy Perunovich Svarog himself! Don't miss - limited addition. Used in battle, in the kitchen and in the bedroom, decoration of any brit are cute, a great gift for Barmitsva (included with Shelom with Barmitsa)!
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 4 May 2021 19: 36
              +3
              According to the modern course of solida, it is completely for nothing.

              Is steel Damascus or Valarian?
              Do you have a certificate?
              Will they be fed?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 4 May 2021 19: 56
                +1
                "And when will the candy be given?" (FROM)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 4 May 2021 20: 10
                  +2
                  "Oh, okay, and so it will do!" (from).
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 4 May 2021 20: 18
                +1
                Dothraki, certified by Rosstandart, fed at Bar Mitzvah.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 4 May 2021 20: 45
                  +1
                  It is better to stay away from any khals.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 5 May 2021 09: 15
                    0
                    Far away from the Khvls, closer to the Khaleesi .. hi
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 5 May 2021 11: 35
                      +1
                      Andriy finished badly.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 May 2021 11: 45
                        0
                        His Poles did not help him repeat
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 May 2021 19: 54
              +3
              Used ...., in the kitchen
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 4 May 2021 20: 07
                +2
                Providing food for dogs? Or the hosts?
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 4 May 2021 19: 49
          -3
          Quote: Krasnodar

          Genetic traces of Ilya Muromets, the founder of Ken-do, have been found in Kyoto!
          Subscribe to our Telegram Channel - Bogatyr-san.tzargrad

          Krasnodar, why are you acting like a fool today? Critical days?
          Does a cold shower no longer work? It's sad.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 4 May 2021 20: 19
            +2
            Do you associate advertising with critical days? lol You are an excellent family man - are you even allowed to watch football? recourse
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 4 May 2021 20: 37
              0
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Do you associate advertising with critical days?

              Advertising of what?
              Quote: Krasnodar
              You are a great family man

              Why do you think so?
              Quote: Krasnodar
              football at least allowed to watch?

              Never watched it. I played myself, it is not interesting to watch others play.
              What's the matter with you? A set of words about nothing. I'm starting to worry about you. recourse
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 4 May 2021 20: 39
                +1
                I am touched by your experiences. hi
                Well, and boxing there, an action movie, do they give you to watch at home?
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 4 May 2021 20: 54
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Well, and boxing there, an action movie, do they give you to watch at home?

                  Yes, exactly - critical days. I'll wait when they pass.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 4 May 2021 21: 08
                    +1
                    Family man in matriarchy hi Do not forget to keep the money stash for yourself, do not give everything to them and remember - you have the right to choose your friends according to your own taste yes
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 4 May 2021 22: 57
                      +1
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Family man in matriarchy hi Do not forget to keep the money stash for yourself, do not give everything to them and remember - you have the right to choose your friends according to your own taste yes

                      Hmmm. How everything started. I hope for your speedy recovery.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 May 2021 01: 16
                        +1
                        Thank you, I'm not sick hi
                      2. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 5 May 2021 08: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Thank you, I'm not sick hi

                        Well, thank you, you know who. This means that the critical days, or, even worse, the wild boar was accepted. Otherwise, why would they be so foolish yesterday? wassat
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 May 2021 09: 12
                        -1
                        Well, you again about your own, family - have suffered from the critical days of those around you at home? Remember - you can always say no too. You have the right. Know - a man is a man too repeat
                      4. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 5 May 2021 10: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Well, you again about yours,

                        No, it's all about yours. From what foolishness? What was the cause? I, of course, have an answer to this question, but I am interested in your answer. And if you cannot find the answer to it, then it turns out that my guess is correct.
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 May 2021 11: 43
                        -1
                        laughing
                        Guess about critical days? Well, who hurts about what request
                        What do you mean, being a fool? Advertised Klesov's theory fellow
                      6. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 5 May 2021 12: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        What do you mean, being a fool? Advertised Klesov's theory

                        And if I start to "advertise" in this way? I give 200% - you accuse me of anti-simitism. Sometimes you have to think about how your words will respond. Your "ad" turned out to be as moronic as any other.
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 May 2021 12: 32
                        -2
                        Are you saying that laughing at Klesov is Russophobia? lol Well, if anti-Semitism was mentioned ..
                      8. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 5 May 2021 12: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Are you saying that laughing at Klesov is Russophobia?

                        Do not play around. You weren't laughing at Klesov. Once again, think about how your words will respond.
                        And then, I, too, can offend.
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 5 May 2021 15: 16
                        -2
                        Over Ilya Muromets? laughing
                      10. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 6 May 2021 17: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Over Ilya Muromets? laughing

                        Above oneself tongue
                        To paraphrase Krylov's grandfather a little - "Oh, Pug, she's smart if she laughs at Klesov."
                        In my understanding, polemics between opponents and Klesov should take place in this format, - uv. Mr. Klesov, you say that it is a waste, but this statement is not true, because it is a waste, arguments are given. In response, Klesov gives his arguments. Etc. What do we see in reality? - This cannot be, because it cannot be, and all this is pseudoscience.
                        Proceeding from this, I HAVE REASONS to trust Klesov more, he shows arguments, in contrast to his opponents, than to his opponents.
                      11. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 6 May 2021 19: 31
                        0
                        Is the moon cheese because it is yellow, porous and round?
                        These are my arguments. fellow
                        You will argue with me in the spirit of “Dear Krasnodar, your arguments are not correct, because:
                        a) unmanned aerial vehicles landed on the moon
                        b) People landed;
                        c) took samples
                        d) it has a hard, rocky surface
                        e) .... "
                        Or tell it like a joke - Cricket claims the moon is cheese what
                        I would never argue with Klesov about biochemistry, inhibitors of signaling pathways of cancer cells, mechanisms of blocking the angiogenesis of malignant neoplasms, etc. this is his profession. With regard to his hobby - for a chela with my rather small set of knowledge - is already an anecdote. about popularizing some kind of bullshit for dummies based on what dummies would like to believe. For people with a scanty set of knowledge and a poor outlook - a revelation yes
                      12. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 6 May 2021 21: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Is the moon cheese because it is yellow, porous and round?

                        What a wretched analogy. I didn’t have another kettle. Expected.
                      13. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 7 May 2021 08: 14
                        0
                        But the most intelligible yes
  • Richard
    Richard 4 May 2021 22: 45
    +4
    Do you associate advertising with critical days?

    Albert hi
    Your namesake - the world-renowned political consultant guru and the father of modern advertising Albert Lasker - opened to the general public tomato juice, condensed milk, semi-finished products, Pepsi Cola, shaving foam, condoms, political election technology, taught women to smoke and use pads. He made big money on this, but at the insistence of his sick wife Flora, he basically refused money for advertising women's pads. For all the royalties received from them, after the death of the "angel of pads" Flora, he established the Mary and Albert Lasker Foundation, which funds still finance medical research in gynecology all over the world.
    riceLasker's most famous advertising works recognized as advertising standards:
    likes strike

    cotex pads
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 5 May 2021 01: 30
      +2
      Greetings! hi This man is a legend)). He knocked off 45 million cans from advertising (today they "cost" about half a lard), only from advertising, and his father was one of the few Jews who joined the board of several American commercial banks, starting from scratch (arrived in the States at the age of 16).
      He revived the nearly collapsed American Cancer Foundation (Cancer Society), a very extraordinary type.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 4 May 2021 16: 00
    +3
    Why do you need such an article, which does not have its own words on this subject, only links? I can google Medvedev and Kirpichnikov without this article.
    1. kalibr
      4 May 2021 16: 06
      +2
      That is, did you know what to google and what will be there? Then why ask? We would google right away! Without waiting.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 4 May 2021 16: 26
        +1
        There is also too much irrelevant tediousness. I only care about one question: what was the original Russian sword. This is how the katana in Japan arose completely independently of European swords, the Chinese jian, the Filipino campilan ... And I am sure that the original Russian sword existed in the same way.
        1. kalibr
          4 May 2021 16: 33
          +3
          Quote: Basarev
          And I am sure that the original Russian sword existed in a similar way.

          Not found yet!
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 4 May 2021 19: 29
            +2
            The original sword was reforged by Yarilo himself as a gift to Mokosh after the first Oral
          2. Richard
            Richard 4 May 2021 20: 28
            +4
            So not found? But what about the sword of "Ludota's farrier"?
            The sword of Koval Ludota is an archaeological find from the times of Kievan Rus, dating from the end of the 1890th century - the first half of the XNUMXth century. The sword was found in XNUMX during chores in the village of Khvoshchevo, now it is kept in the National Museum of the History of Ukraine.
            The sword is a blade 85,3 cm long and 5 cm wide. Both the blade and the handle are atypical enough for that time

            Anatoly Kirpichnikov:
            Its handle consists of five parts, separately cast from bronze, with a relief ornament in the form of intertwined monsters in the style of gravestone runestones of the XNUMXth century.
            It is such a handle with a curved crosshair and a rhomboidal head that is depicted on the Swedish runestone from Ramtund in Södermanland (King Sigurd pierces the snake Fafnir - an episode from Edda songs). X. Arbman believes that the sword from Foschevataya was made outside Scandinavia, since the handle tube is decorated in a different style than the crosshair and the head.
            For purely northern things, he excludes such "diversity". This prompted us to look for the origin of the sword somewhere in the Southeast Baltic region. Nowadays, the area of ​​manufacture of the handle can be attributed even further south. The main thing is that a signature stamp was revealed on the Foshchevat blade, which not only did not confirm its Scandinavian origin, but also turned the previous ideas about ancient Russian swords upside down.
            The inscription opened in the upper third of the blade, it is double-sided and guided by a damask wire inlaid in metal.
            The technique of its execution does not differ from the Carolingian swords of the 6th century known to us. The inscription consists of statutory Slavic Cyril letters. On one side of the blade reads "KOVAL", on the other - the partially preserved name of the blacksmith, most likely of XNUMX letters (the second "U" and the final "A" are distinguishable; the first letter, judging by its acute-angled ending, could be "L" or "D ", In the third and fourth places were, perhaps," D "and" O "). Old Russian male names, including" U "and ending in" A ", are known, and experts, apparently, will be able to read this name. As probable, we put forward the name "LYUDOTA" or "LYUDOSHA", but I will not undertake to justify. The general meaning of the inscription leaves no doubt - this is a production mark that certifies the creator of the product.
            By paleographic features, the inscription can be attributed to the XNUMXth century. and is closest to the monuments of Cyril's writing of the late XNUMXth - first half of the XNUMXth century.
            The linguistic, typological and ornamental dates on the site under consideration coincided approximately. Most likely, this is 1000-1050 years.
            If the latter is true, then the real inscription is the oldest Russian inscription on metal and conveys the oldest surviving name of a craftsman and precisely a blacksmith.
            The Foshchevat sword definitely proves that the local production of swords by the forces of literate mechdels was organized in our country no later than the first half of the 1000th century, perhaps around XNUMX BC.
            The singularity of the find and the fragmentation of the name of the master do not shake these statements. The name of the master, affixed to the product, testifies to the existence of a specialized weapons workshop long before written sources report it.
            The oldest Russian signature sword (new finds of this kind are not excluded) was the result of crossing a number of European technical knowledge and skills:
            Carolingian (inscription technique),
            Scandinavian (ornamental headdress)
            Russians (blade and partly the shape of the handle).
            1. Richard
              Richard 4 May 2021 20: 44
              +3

              The Ludwig Sword is not the only find of this kind. Also known is the sword "... glory" from the same National Museum of the History of Ukraine.

              It is in extremely poor condition, but its shape also does not fit into the typology of Ewart Oakeshott's swords.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 4 May 2021 17: 07
    +1
    Colleagues, usually at lunchtime I had time to re-read or go to the site, but today everything is on the other hand: in the morning they read, and in the afternoon ... do not breathe.
    How will it be tomorrow? I do not know
  • Obliterator
    Obliterator 4 May 2021 22: 48
    +1
    I did not find anything about specifically Russian swords in the article. Of course, it is no secret that swords from Western Europe were mainly used in the Russian principalities, but only the fact of their discovery on the territory of Russia does not make them "Russians" yet. In the next articles I am waiting for information about swords of Russian manufacture and their features.
  • Gunther
    Gunther 24 May 2021 23: 56
    0
    The share of imported swords was small; wealthy people bought them not because of their quality, but because of the so-called. "show-off".
    In 805, Charlemagne, under pain of death, banned the import of swords into the Slavic lands, but despite the policy of sanctions of the then European Union, there were enough swords in Russia, indeed, our great Russian people could not join such expanses being armed with stones and sticks.
    No later than the 10th century, workshops appeared in Russia, in which their own weapons, including swords, were produced in abundance.
    For example, the sword of the blacksmith Ludota, found in 1890 in the village of Khvoshchevoe in the Poltava region, was mistakenly designated as Scandinavian - for the sake of the "Norman theories".
    In 1966, this sword was named the Sword of the Blacksmith Ludota based on the work of the Russian archaeologist Kirpichnikov, who proved the Russian origin of the sword and the inscription on it - Koval Ludota.
    Now, the alternatively gifted Sumerians, offended by the fact that lithospheric plates did not disperse under the Crimean bridge, are trying to suck from their finger the proof of the opposite - Ludota's Norman sword)))
    An example of such a resentful Sumerian is the director of the National Museum
    stories Fedor Androshchuk, but not looking at the efforts of 3 kopecks did not work out 3 rubles - the Russian archaeologist Kirpichnikov in a fundamental scientific article (in the Collection of the USSR Academy of Sciences) indicated 417 sources, against 27 sources from the offended Sumer Fedi Androshchuk)))

    So it goes...
  • Gunther
    Gunther 24 May 2021 23: 57
    0
    The share of imported swords was small; wealthy people bought them not because of their quality, but because of the so-called. "show-off".
    In 805, Charlemagne, under pain of death, banned the import of swords into the Slavic lands, but despite the policy of sanctions of the then European Union, there were enough swords in Russia, indeed, our great Russian people could not join such expanses being armed with stones and sticks.
    No later than the 10th century, workshops appeared in Russia, in which their own weapons, including swords, were produced in abundance.
    For example, the sword of the blacksmith Ludota, found in 1890 in the village of Khvoshchevoe in the Poltava region, was mistakenly designated as Scandinavian - for the sake of the "Norman theories".
    In 1966, this sword was named the Sword of the Blacksmith Ludota based on the work of the Russian archaeologist Kirpichnikov, who proved the Russian origin of the sword and the inscription on it - Koval Ludota.
    Now, the alternatively gifted Sumerians, offended by the fact that lithospheric plates did not disperse under the Crimean bridge, are trying to suck from their finger the proof of the opposite - Ludota's Norman sword)))
    An example of such an offended Sumer is the director of the National Museum of History Fedor Androshchuk, but despite the efforts of 3 kopecks, 3 rubles did not work out - the Russian archaeologist Kirpichnikov indicated 417 sources in a fundamental scientific article (in the Collection of the USSR Academy of Sciences), versus 27 sources from the offended Sumer Fedi androshuka)))

    So it goes...