Military Review

Russian navy in a prospective future war

96
Russian navy in a prospective future war
Photo: mil.ru


Scenarios


As a person who is poorly competent in matters fleet, I still venture to express my opinion based on a common understanding of the political situation. It seems that the tasks that the fleet solves should be set on the basis of four possible scenarios that are likely to flow into one another.

The first scenario is a limited war with neighboring states.

The second scenario is a limited war with a coastal country (or paramilitary force), separated from Russia by significant water areas.

The third scenario is a war with a great power using non-nuclear weapons.

The fourth scenario is a war with a great power with nuclear weapons.

Obviously, all of these scenarios can potentially spill over into one another. However, I have separated them. For the reason that they require a fundamentally different approach to the formation of ship groupings.

In the first scenario, given the assumed superiority of the Russian Federation over the enemy, the fleet is essentially redundant. The matter will be decided on land, and the possibility of launching missile or artillery strikes from the sea, as well as the landing of troops will be a pleasant addition to the actions of the ground forces. So, scenario number 1 - the fleet is absent, if necessary, forces that are already available to carry out other scenarios are used.

The second scenario assumes the possibility of using force against remote objects, which, no doubt, is useful in the implementation of foreign policy tasks, but, obviously, is not a task of strategic survival for the Russian Federation. It seems that, ideally, the optimal ship for autonomous operations would be a nuclear cruiser, escorted by several frigates, an escort aircraft carrier and a pair of amphibious assault ships and support ships.

If such a grouping is recognized as too expensive and redundant (and, it must be understood that in conflicts with great powers, it will most likely be practically useless), then you can limit yourself to developing a project for an ocean-going frigate capable of presenting a flag, conducting reconnaissance, carrying out an evacuation, to fight pirates, to carry out a blockade of ports of states that do not have effective aviation and the fleet, or disembark commandos.

Optimally, it seems to me, if such a frigate is also atomic. Another option is to make such a sailing ship. For example, 2-3 such frigates, one of which cruises continuously across the world's oceans, will fully support Russia's status as a world power.

With the fourth scenario, everything is more or less clear - maintaining an effective grouping of strategic missile submarines capable of inflicting unacceptable damage on the enemy.

It seems that the third scenario may be the most threatening - a war with an adversary superior in conventional weapons, not spilling over into a nuclear one.

There can be several options for such operations.

1. Direct confrontation with a great power, which undertakes not to use nuclear weapon.

2. Clash with a coalition of non-nuclear states, which, with the support of a great power, gain military superiority.

3. Clash with internal insurgents, supported by a great power - by various means, up to direct actions of the aviation and navy in the interests of the insurgents.

This scenario seems hypothetical, but it carries a huge danger for Russia if it comes to fruition. It is possible that such a war could be protracted, potentially endless. It seems that in such conditions, the main task of the fleet will be to protect the coastal waters of the Russian Federation in order to prevent the actions of enemy strike forces there, to conduct its own landing operations and counteract enemy landing operations, and to support ground forces from the sea.

Ideas


It should be understood that the creation of a high seas fleet of such strength that it could on equal terms oppose the modern fleet and aviation at a distance from its bases requires huge costs, which seems irrational to go for, at least until the economy of the Russian Federation is comparable with the economy of China or the United States. The high seas fleet in the collision of the great powers could act as an integral part of the allied forces.

However, so far a close "cordial union" with the United States or China has not been seen.
It seems to me that in such a situation one should be guided by the experience of the Great Patriotic War and understand that the actions of the fleet will be characterized by the following features:

1) the fleet will operate from an area reliably covered by air defense means, conducting raiding operations. Actions far away from such areas will always be risky;
2) covering the base area with air defense means will not always be reliable;
3) enemy operations against our fleet will often be successful;
4) some closed sea areas may be lost;
5) the enemy satellite grouping will not be suppressed;
6) many of the tasks of the fleet will be solved by the aviation of the fleet.

It seems that for such actions, the optimal characteristics of the vessels will be:

- small size, allowing effective camouflage of ships;
- low draft, allowing to operate outside the fairways;
- the possibility of transportation disassembled or unassembled by rail - at least for most of the "mosquito" fleet;
- high speed;
- sufficient seaworthiness.

To solve these problems, I consider it necessary to launch mass production of the following boats:

1. Small landing ship capable of transporting and landing 1 MBT.
2. Minesweeper.
3. Anti-submarine ship.
4. Ship of artillery support.
5. Air defense ship.
6. Strike missile ship.
7. Attack torpedo ship.
8. Mine layer.
9. Underwater minelayer.
10. Small torpedo submarine.
11. Armored assault boat.

For the northern regions, it is important to have hovercraft to operate on ice.

I see multihull ships in their optimal shape.

I also consider it necessary to create a fleet service for heavy vehicles and unloading equipment capable of quickly transferring such a fleet from one reservoir to another in off-road conditions.

An extensive network of single basing sites should be created to provide room for maneuver.

Particular attention should be paid to the aviation and air defense of the fleet.

The Marine Corps must not so much train desperate professionals who are ready to storm enemy bases, as instructors who must provide amphibious operations with the forces of conventional infantry units. And temporarily assigned as an instructor to each platoon commander during landing operations to control movements and ensure communication with boats.

Naturally, everything should be built on the domestic component base, even to the detriment of some characteristics.
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96 comments
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 27 2021 11: 07
    +4
    As a person who is poorly competent in the politics of the upper echelons, I want to believe that there will be no war. And whipping up this hysteria is also not worth it.
    1. Machito
      Machito April 27 2021 11: 12
      +25
      Especially neighing over the sailing frigate. laughing lol I was charged with the mood for the whole day.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 11: 17
        +22
        Quote: Bearded
        Especially neighing over the sailing frigate.

        Indeed, it is very strange, it is obvious that rowing ships are needed! Here and physical training and team spirit at once!
        1. Civil
          Civil April 27 2021 11: 21
          +6
          Russian navy in a prospective future war

          Russia's participation in a future war will not do anything good. Especially considering our demographics and the state of the economy.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 11: 23
            +5
            Quote: Civil
            Russia's participation in a future war will not do anything good

            That is why nuclear weapons need to be developed and declared readiness for its use.
            1. Civil
              Civil April 27 2021 11: 35
              +1
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              That is why nuclear weapons need to be developed and declared readiness for its use.

              Exactly!
            2. Ryusey
              Ryusey April 27 2021 13: 15
              0
              How exactly to develop?
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 13: 19
                +1
                Quote: Ryusey
                How exactly to develop?

                Quantitatively and qualitatively. With an emphasis on tactical nuclear weapons, much like in the USSR.
            3. Niko
              Niko April 27 2021 13: 32
              +10
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Quote: Civil
              Russia's participation in a future war will not do anything good

              That is why nuclear weapons need to be developed and declared readiness for its use.

              Relying ONLY on nuclear weapons in ANY conflicts is about the same as threatening a grenade that pushed you in a tram, you need to be either a complete scumbag, or it will cause nothing but laughter.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 13: 40
                +1
                Quote: Niko
                this is about the same as threatening a grenade that pushed you in a tram
                Quite a good example, but not in your favor. Because if you have a grenade visible to everyone in your hands, no one will push you in the tram. wink
                1. Fan-fan
                  Fan-fan April 27 2021 15: 08
                  +6
                  They won't let you into the tram with a grenade. Thugs with grenades in their hands should not be among civilians, but on the reservation.
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 16: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: Fan-Fan
                    They won't let you into the tram with a grenade.

                    Here is strange, an example with a grenade as an analogy of a nuclear weapon, I didn’t come up with, but you reproach me.
            4. TatarinSSSR
              TatarinSSSR April 28 2021 13: 14
              +2
              The readiness to use nuclear weapons should also imply that the enemy will respond to this use by using his nuclear weapons across the territory of Russia. Are you ready to burn in a radioactive flame due to a lone conflict between two ships at sea?
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 28 2021 16: 09
                -1
                Quote: TatarinSSSR
                Are you ready to burn in a radioactive flame due to a lone conflict between two ships at sea?
                Why are you so worried about the Americans or the British or the Germans or the Japanese, they pay you money so that Russia would disarm in front of all these and many others? Or do you imagine that they themselves are not afraid? So let them be even more afraid, do not love, do not respect, let them be afraid.
          2. Svarog
            Svarog April 27 2021 12: 23
            +13
            Quote: Civil
            Russian navy in a prospective future war

            Russia's participation in a future war will not do anything good. Especially considering our demographics and the state of the economy.

            The war is already underway .. judging by the demographics. I have one question, why should the aggressor states risk being destroyed by our nuclear weapons, well, or receive serious damage? After all, everything is going well for them, the Russian Federation breaks another bottom in the economy and demography every year ... and it is also obvious that in the near future the situation will only get worse .. Thus, in 20-30 years, nothing will have to be won .. and the United States is playing for a long time ... and 20-30 years can quite wait for themselves, driving us along the way to the level of African countries ..
            1. Niko
              Niko April 27 2021 13: 34
              +7
              Quote: Svarog
              Quote: Civil
              Russian navy in a prospective future war

              Russia's participation in a future war will not do anything good. Especially considering our demographics and the state of the economy.

              The war is already underway .. judging by the demographics. I have one question, why should the aggressor states risk being destroyed by our nuclear weapons, well, or receive serious damage? After all, everything is going well for them, the Russian Federation breaks another bottom in the economy and demography every year ... and it is also obvious that in the near future the situation will only get worse .. Thus, in 20-30 years, nothing will have to be won .. and the United States is playing for a long time ... and 20-30 years can quite wait for themselves, driving us along the way to the level of African countries ..

              And not only the United States. First of all, everything related to demography suits our Chinese comrades (with whom we are like friends)
              1. Escobar
                Escobar April 28 2021 21: 47
                +1
                But who have very little space per capita, the largest army and deserted, full of resources, Siberia is close by
            2. SVD68
              SVD68 April 28 2021 06: 27
              +1
              Quote: Svarog
              I have one question, why should the aggressor states risk being destroyed by our nuclear weapons, well, or receive serious damage? After all, everything is going well for them.

              No, they are also not doing well. And they hope to overcome their crises with another robbery. And we are one of the first candidates for the robbery.
            3. TatarinSSSR
              TatarinSSSR April 28 2021 13: 16
              +3
              So, although I am not an all-perpetrator, I think the same way, the United States is playing for a long time, the next 30 will be very difficult for Russia.
          3. paul3390
            paul3390 April 27 2021 12: 31
            +12
            We do not need any war - our own government will quite successfully ditch us. Without any invaders there ...
            1. Svarog
              Svarog April 27 2021 12: 42
              +6
              Quote: paul3390
              We do not need any war - our own government will quite successfully ditch us. Without any invaders there ...

              About that and speech .. hi
        2. Intruder
          Intruder April 27 2021 17: 52
          0
          Indeed, it is very strange, it is obvious that rowing ships are needed! Here and physical training and team spirit at once!
          Exactly, and even privateering to lead .., so for local conflicts far from their native shores !!!
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 18: 04
            +4
            Quote: Intruder
            Exactly, and still lead privateering
            Where to get a patent for a privateer type of activity, as usual in the tax office? Or how can self-employed people get started? laughing
            1. Intruder
              Intruder April 27 2021 18: 24
              +2
              Where to get a patent for a privateer type of activity, as usual in the tax office? Or how can self-employed people get started? laughing
              in the maritime administration of Comrade Wagner's office! bully
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 28 2021 02: 58
                +1
                Quote: Intruder
                Comrade Wagner!

                Flight of Valkyries, swim of newts, hiring interested ...
          2. max702
            max702 April 28 2021 13: 52
            -1
            Duc from the USA and those who grunt this patent are available ..
      2. SERGE ANT
        SERGE ANT April 27 2021 11: 40
        +8
        Quote: Bearded
        Especially neighing over the sailing frigate.

        Yes, it was strong. However, do not shoot the pianist, he honestly said at the beginning of the article "As a person who is poorly competent in naval matters, I still venture to express my opinion."
      3. BIABIA
        BIABIA April 27 2021 11: 54
        +4


        That's what it meant!
      4. Egoza
        Egoza April 27 2021 12: 47
        +5
        Quote: Bearded
        Especially neighing over the sailing frigate.

        And there is no need to laugh! Now, if the sails are red ... yes with a hammer and sickle, but with the inscription USSR ... what a shock the enemy will have!
        1. Intruder
          Intruder April 27 2021 18: 03
          -1
          yes with a hammer and sickle, yes with the inscription USSR ... what a shock the enemy will have!

          type:
        2. Gardener91
          Gardener91 April 27 2021 21: 50
          +2
          The standard is enough. Many, at the sight and now, have got dirty toilets, if they manage to run.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder April 28 2021 12: 25
            -1
            Well, if you really, come to the proud heritage:

            The ship charter of Peter I ordered to protect the Andreevsky flag to the last drop of blood, and the Russian sailors sacredly fulfilled their duty. Over the two centuries of the history of the Russian fleet, the St. Andrew's flag was lowered only three times.
      5. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 27 2021 14: 16
        +2
        Quote: Bearded
        Especially neighing over the sailing frigate. laughing lol I was charged with the mood for the whole day.

        good
        But how does it sound ... "Sailing Frigate" (for some reason I want to write with a capital letter).
        It's very good that Ivan clarified
        As a person who is poorly competent in matters of the fleet, I still venture to express my opinion ..

        Thanks for the feedback.
      6. Silhouette
        Silhouette April 27 2021 14: 27
        +3
        Another victim of the Unified State Exam began to talk about the fleet. Someone will finally calm them down?
      7. shkiper83
        shkiper83 April 28 2021 08: 16
        0
        You didn't need to read further
    2. Anzhey V.
      Anzhey V. April 27 2021 11: 46
      +7
      Optimally, it seems to me, if such a frigate is also atomic. Another option is to make such a sailing ship. For example, 2-3 such frigates, one of which cruises continuously across the world's oceans, will fully support Russia's status as a world power.


      After that moment, I died. He died finally and irrevocably.

      But what a runaway thought - from a nuclear reactor to sails!

      For the needs of BMZ defense, I propose to build URO galleys - there is no need to sail there, there will be enough oars so that the fuel does not burn in vain.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor April 27 2021 12: 48
        +4
        After that moment, I died. He died finally and irrevocably.

        But what a runaway thought - from a nuclear reactor to sails!

        For the needs of BMZ defense, I propose to build URO galleys - there is no need to sail there, there will be enough oars so that the fuel does not burn in vain.

        And in vain. These are the guys who make decisions about the fleet. And everything else, too, hike. wink
      2. Kuroneko
        Kuroneko April 27 2021 15: 51
        +1
        Quote: Anjay V.
        But what a runaway thought - from a nuclear reactor to sails!

        I am surprised that the battery of wind turbines was not offered to be installed on the frigate. Well, solar panels, where without them.
      3. Intruder
        Intruder April 27 2021 18: 05
        -1
        there is no need to swim far, there will be enough oars so that the fuel does not burn in vain.
        Gastarbeiter laughing - to the galleys, verstehen !?
    3. antivirus
      antivirus April 27 2021 14: 09
      +1
      the article is definitely big ++ for trying to confuse the enemy. piled up such that Rend Corp. is busy for 3 years - they will look for a country that does not use the first poison weapons, etc.
    4. Stas1973
      Stas1973 April 27 2021 16: 15
      0
      Alas, it will. Everything goes to this.
  2. Pavel73
    Pavel73 April 27 2021 11: 10
    +4
    Probably a small landing ship for one MBT should provide the ability for this MBT to fire from standard weapons - cannons and machine guns - during the landing.
  3. NDR-791
    NDR-791 April 27 2021 11: 16
    +5
    To solve these problems, I consider it necessary to launch mass production of the following boats:
    1. Small landing ship capable of transporting and landing 1 MBT.
    2. Minesweeper.
    3. Anti-submarine ship.
    4. Ship of artillery support.
    5. Air defense ship.
    6. Strike missile ship.
    7. Attack torpedo ship.
    8. Mine layer.
    9. Underwater minelayer.
    10. Small torpedo submarine.
    11. Armored assault boat.

    Very similar to "mosquito tactics". And it is effective only for OVR. And wars are not won by defense. The scripts along with the ideas are reminiscent of the concepts of the late 30s.
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak April 27 2021 11: 41
      +1
      Quote: NDR-791
      Very similar to "mosquito tactics".

      This is according to the author. And this is what is assumed in reality:
      “At the beginning of May, two Project 955A Borey-A nuclear-powered submarine missile cruisers, two Project 20 380 corvettes, and two Project 636.3 submarines will be laid down” (S, TASS).
      The bias is clearly towards strengthening the submarine fleet, incl. SSBN.
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 April 27 2021 12: 21
        +1
        Quote: vvvjak
        The bias is clearly towards strengthening the submarine fleet, incl. SSBN.

        A very correct bias. It is absolutely necessary to take out the starting position for an approach time of five minutes or less.
      2. antivirus
        antivirus April 27 2021 14: 10
        +2
        bias towards war with poison weapons. for less does not exchange hands-in the country .. for lesser misdemeanors-cut off the gas and wheat.
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak April 27 2021 14: 31
          +2
          Quote: antivirus
          bias towards war with poison weapons. countries do not trade hands for less.

          I would say they are preparing for a global conflict.
          Quote: antivirus
          for lesser offenses, they will turn off the gas and wheat.

          This is not the worst case scenario. I believe that fighting is an extreme way to solve problems and if you can do without them, then it’s even very good.
    2. alstr
      alstr April 27 2021 13: 00
      +1
      In fact, some of these types fit together perfectly. For example, PLO + Art ship,
      Air defense + PLO, Missile strike + Art ship, etc.
      But in fact, we first of all need two types: minesweepers and PLO ships (with a helicopter).
      The rest of their functions are according to the residual principle (i.e. self-defense air defense + 4-8 PRK - if it fits).
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 April 27 2021 13: 03
        0
        Quote: alstr
        PLO ships (with a helicopter).

        Not to fat, we should at least have a helicopter. And then only a few remained in working form. And they are at odds with modernity.
      2. Niko
        Niko April 27 2021 14: 09
        +1
        Quote: alstr
        In fact, some of these types fit together perfectly. For example, PLO + Art ship,
        Air defense + PLO, Missile strike + Art ship, etc.
        But in fact, we first of all need two types: minesweepers and PLO ships (with a helicopter).
        The rest of their functions are according to the residual principle (i.e. self-defense air defense + 4-8 PRK - if it fits).

        SHIPS of small displacement "with a helicopter" In the north, for example, they are practically unable to use it due to weather conditions, one helicopter for anti-submarine operations is not enough, at least two are needed that can work in pairs and regardless of the weather, i.e. a bigger ship is needed again.
        1. alstr
          alstr April 27 2021 17: 33
          +1
          If you have something like project 22160, then it's pretty decent to get it. Only there the PLO should be delivered normally, and the strike weapons should be thrown out, if the rest does not interfere.
          As for helicopters, alas, but more than one is unlikely to be crammed. Another thing is to cram several UAVs there, which can take on part of the tasks.
          1. Niko
            Niko April 27 2021 21: 31
            0
            Quote: alstr
            If you have something like project 22160, then it's pretty decent to get it. Only there the PLO should be delivered normally, and the strike weapons should be thrown out, if the rest does not interfere.
            As for helicopters, alas, but more than one is unlikely to be crammed. Another thing is to cram several UAVs there, which can take on part of the tasks.

            There are many options, BUT one thing will remain in any case: limited displacement = limited capabilities. With a displacement of 22160x (approximately) the sevens in the north themselves needed help more often than they could provide it, and this despite the fact that they did not have to try to lift or receive the helicopter
    3. Niko
      Niko April 27 2021 14: 05
      +1
      "Mosquito tactics" were applicable only with the support of heavy ships and aircraft, even during the Second World War, and now when the aircraft and the fleet began to see at night as well as during the day, this is a utopia. Operations are simply impossible in most cases, for example the sea: attempts to sweep operations without appropriate resistance to the forces covering the area of ​​work, attempts by the submarine fleet to force anti-submarine lines on its own.
    4. Intruder
      Intruder April 27 2021 18: 17
      -2
      1. Small landing ship capable of transporting and landing 1 MBT.
      2. Minesweeper.
      3. Anti-submarine ship.
      4. Ship of artillery support.
      5. Air defense ship.
      6. Strike missile ship.
      7. Attack torpedo ship.
      8. Mine layer.
      9. Underwater minelayer.
      10. Small torpedo submarine.
      11. Armored assault boat.

      Hmm., Interesting:
      1 pcs. MBT, and for one calculation of the anti-tank missile system or reconnaissance group, on the coast or in the first ambush, minus one MBT, at a cost even for two: "Cornet" or "Competition" / "Metis" !? Not commensurate losses, perhaps a small landing party from the coast will get it, with a cheap rocket, even during the landing of this one heroic MBT ashore yes ...
      10. Maybe a drone is better - an underwater one, and not a small submarine, the point is to drive it to slaughter, and it will be more expensive than a drone, anyway !?
      2/4/7/8/11. A direct offer from the enemy, to the delight of coastal-based aviation?
      It remains of everything, only items: 2/3/5 and 6, somehow an under-fleet turned out for "... a small, but terribly proud ..." country!
  4. smaug78
    smaug78 April 27 2021 11: 17
    +10
    Yeah, the feeling is that TopWar is just making money from the obsessions, getting paid for publishing outright nonsense.
  5. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman April 27 2021 11: 17
    +3
    I see multihull ships in their optimal shape.

    Money to the wind.
    And the sailing frigate is mosch! :)))
  6. rocket757
    rocket757 April 27 2021 11: 17
    +3
    Russian navy in a prospective future war
    ... Scripts, idei ... you can write RPGs like that.
    I'm not criticizing, it just looks like that.
    One thing is known, in life there may not be a restart.
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 11: 20
    +4
    I also consider it necessary to create a naval service. heavy vehicles and unloading vehiclesable to quickly transfer such a fleet from one reservoir on the other in off-road conditions.
    Yes, the author seems to be mocking!
    1. Doctor
      Doctor April 27 2021 12: 59
      +4
      Yes, the author seems to be mocking!

      Not at all.





      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 13: 02
        -1
        Quote: Arzt
        Yes, the author seems to be mocking!
        Not at all.
        And now you are kidding! laughing
        1. Doctor
          Doctor April 27 2021 13: 44
          +2
          And now you are kidding! laughing

          Theoretically possible.
          Previously, there were no such tractors, therefore they were transported by railway.
          And now:

          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 13: 49
            0
            A beautiful picture, if the creativity of the author of the article is read inattentively, but if carefully then:
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            transfer such a fleet from one reservoir to another in off-road conditions.
            Well, the last missile boat 1241 "Molniya" displaced almost 400 tons. Two times more than this handsome man. That's why I'm writing about bullying.
  8. knn54
    knn54 April 27 2021 11: 21
    +1
    - low draft, allowing to operate outside the fairways;
    - sufficient seaworthiness.
    Even here, a contradiction is visible.
    The excitement of the sea 2,5 ... 3 points and the end of the "punt".
    News about corvettes for the Pacific Fleet was heard again today.
    I will express my personal opinion. Poteryan Nikolaev shipbuilding plant. And with it designers and production workers.
    Therefore (to our deep regret) for the construction of destroyers, cruisers and surface ships of the 1st class, without the help of the PRC TODAY, one cannot do without.
    And there is nothing to be ashamed of in this. It will simply be hulls adapted for Russian weapons and control systems. I do not exclude the possibility of joint projects of the developers of the Russian Federation and the PRC.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 27 2021 11: 38
      0
      Quote: knn54
      The excitement of the sea 2,5 ... 3 points and the end of the "punt".

      ES "Lun" had seaworthiness limitations for take-off and landing of 5-6 points and presumably about 9 (storm) limiting.
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 April 27 2021 12: 29
      0
      Quote: knn54
      The excitement of the sea 2,5 ... 3 points and the end of the "punt".

      the author writes on multihulls, they are both seaworthy and flat-bottomed, and for ships of the third rank it is quite an optimal solution ... and the pitching there is much less significant, because all members of the sect of aircraft carrier witnesses are afraid of pitching
  9. Alexander Morozov
    Alexander Morozov April 27 2021 11: 35
    +6
    A series of articles about "The Fleet We Need" has reached anecdotes
  10. tlauicol
    tlauicol April 27 2021 11: 47
    +4
    Hmm ... Timokhin and Klimov scold, and without them, it turns out, there is nothing to read
  11. bandabas
    bandabas April 27 2021 11: 57
    0
    "Command and conquer" is resting !!!
  12. Avior
    Avior April 27 2021 12: 00
    +2
    The first scenario is a limited war with neighboring states.

    With China, for example? With Japan? From the USA 4 km away?
    Or with neighboring NATO?
    The NATO topic is not covered at all in any of the options. And the topic of NATO + its allied states, which are not formally members of NATO, like Japan, was not even touched upon.
    The second scenario is a limited war with a coastal country (or paramilitary force), separated from Russia by significant water areas.

    you can limit yourself to the development of an ocean-going frigate project capable of presenting a flag, conducting reconnaissance, carrying out evacuations, fighting pirates, blockading ports of states that do not have effective aviation and navies, or landing commandos.

    Not many have a full-fledged air force. But very many have some kind of aviation. For example, Sudan with its existing aviation will create serious problems for the expeditionary force, which will not include aviation.
    About the sailing frigate, the author did a very good job. smile The next suggestion will probably be galleys.
    For the second position, either a UDC with carrier-based aircraft, or a similar light aircraft carrier, simply suggests itself. It will also make it possible to significantly expand the zone of aviation control in comparison with a purely coastal one by creating an operational reserve at some distance from the coast.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind April 27 2021 12: 14
      +4
      On the rowing galleys laughing there is already one galley slave.
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 April 27 2021 12: 37
      0
      Quote: Avior
      And the topic of NATO + its allied states, which are not formally members of NATO, like Japan, was not even touched upon.

      this is a topic with nuclear strikes because Japan and Europe are satellites of the United States connected with the US by a military treaty, and a war with them is a nuclear war with strikes on Washington
      Quote: Avior
      About the sailing frigate - the author did a very good job

      I liked it too tongue in any case, sailboats are definitely more useful than aircraft carriers ...
      1. Avior
        Avior April 27 2021 12: 49
        +1
        this is a topic with nuclear strikes

        it is possible, but not at all necessary
        Between the capitalist countries, to which Russia belongs, there is no such level of threat as was with the socialist USSR, when the question was mutually and in principle about changing the system of power
        Now we are talking about money for both parties, which is not the same thing at all.
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 April 27 2021 13: 18
          0
          Quote: Avior
          Now we are talking about money for both parties, which is not the same thing at all.

          this is generally not solved by military means, but the likelihood of war is, although not as great as before, the reason is in the inadequacy of the world behind the scenes, and in its desire to bomb Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya ... Syria, only nuclear weapons and the Armed Forces prevent this
  13. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 27 2021 12: 12
    +6
    I see multihull ships in their optimal shape.
    I also consider it necessary to create a fleet service for heavy vehicles and unloading equipment capable of quickly transferring such a fleet from one reservoir to another in off-road conditions.

    Author! Stop !! Ask!!!
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 April 27 2021 12: 32
      -7
      here you are not understanding in modern shipbuilding one iota, everyone is in the 19th century of art battles, and outdated concepts of Nikolsky's cousin with their aircraft carriers senseless in the conditions of the Russian Federation, (by the way, when did you fulfill your word of the officer, write us tasks for AV?) catamarans trimarans for a long time used and still have hydrofoils .... you need to learn materiel
      Quote: knn54
      The excitement of the sea 2,5 ... 3 points and the end of the "punt".

      the author writes on multihulls, they are both seaworthy and flat-bottomed, and for ships of the third rank it is quite an optimal solution ... and the pitching there is much less significant, because all members of the sect of aircraft carrier witnesses are afraid of pitching
  14. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 April 27 2021 12: 25
    -7
    the article is not a sailor, but a policy, and generally correct, of course, we do not need to cut and transport ships by rail, there are inland waterways, ships of the third rank go along them, and the size of such ships is enough for the eyes in the Caspian Sea, Black Japanese Okhotsk and Baltic seas ... and nuclear submarines and frigates will only be at two bases of the Northern Fleet and Kamchatka, you do not need to carry them somewhere, the main message of the article is correct, all sorts of super-expensive, super-expensive, low-speed, noticeable and very vulnerable aircraft carriers, udk, battleship destroyers, we do not need even frigates preferably not heavier than 3-4 thousand tons,
  15. Voenmeh
    Voenmeh April 27 2021 12: 39
    +3
    Listen, why do you meddle in this question, if you yourself write about yourself "As a person who is poorly competent in matters of the fleet,"? In this matter, it is important to know the opinion of competent specialists, not sofa generals
  16. parusnik
    parusnik April 27 2021 12: 51
    +2
    One, an intelligent man, promised that in the event of a war, we would find ourselves in paradise, as many were hooked, wanted to go to paradise, went to the scenarios of a future war laughing
  17. YOU
    YOU April 27 2021 12: 56
    0
    The article about what kind of fleet Russia needs is not the first. But very paradoxical. In the first case, nothing is needed. In the second, from the atomic one it is not clear whether it is a frigate or a cruiser. And another passage about a sailboat. And then the mosquito fleet. And in the end, what? First, second or third, or all at once and compote. About the submarine fleet in general, except for SSBNs, not a word. And the aviation of the fleet drinks tea and seems to have nothing to do with it.
  18. Ryusey
    Ryusey April 27 2021 13: 14
    +1
    It is not necessary for a poorly competent person to flaunt his incompetence, it looks ridiculous.
  19. Per se.
    Per se. April 27 2021 13: 53
    +2
    The fourth scenario is a war with a great power with nuclear weapons.
    Then the fifth scenario is already - a war with a small (not a great country) nuclear weapons ...
    The article may seem strange, but the essence is not new, in short - "Why does a goat need a button accordion", that is, a fleet for Russia, and, straight to the point, "I think", with a list of boats of the "mosquito fleet", from the number "1" up to "9" with "shock torpedo".
    Directly, according to Raikin (who caught this era)
    laughter can be different: hysterical, homeric, spiteful, uterine, and, finally, from tickling

    Russia needs a fleet, and not only a coastal one. Well, enough already, the army and the navy are either there or not. They are either strong or weak. There cannot be one coastal fleet for a country like Russia, just as there cannot be one "border" army, "surface" air force.
    So, think, the article is a "naive boy" who wants the best, or "words are not a boy but a husband" who works in the field of ideological sabotage and propaganda from those who surrounded Russia from all sides, convincing that instead of the army and the fleet, it is better for us to have oil and gas as allies.
  20. Anachoret
    Anachoret April 27 2021 14: 47
    +1
    Maintaining the general atmosphere of the article, in the order of delirium, I propose to create mobile groups from runaway robbers and convicts (in the amount of two or three thousand heads) for organizing felling and harvesting round timber for the drags of sailing ships off-road.

    A shortage of fuel for the fleet and army in remote areas is a very realistic scenario. But in this case, it is better to build a nuclear propulsion support vessel with a desalination plant and a small CTL plant based on the Fischer-Tropsch plant. Coal will definitely be found in any corner of the planet forgotten by God)
    Although, if someone still dreams of a powerful sailing military fleet - who will stop him? ))
  21. dranthqu
    dranthqu April 27 2021 14: 55
    0
    1) the fleet will operate from an area reliably covered by air defense means, conducting raiding operations. Actions far away from such areas will always be risky;
    2) covering the base area with air defense means will not always be reliable;
    3) enemy operations against our fleet will often be successful;
    4) some closed sea areas may be lost;
    5) the enemy satellite grouping will not be suppressed;
    6) many of the tasks of the fleet will be solved by the aviation of the fleet.


    Here, as it were, everything is according to Mahan: either your own fleet prevails at sea - then, in a conflict with almost any state, you can block the enemy fleet in ports, interrupt sea trade and supplies and create a threat of landing or strikes from the sea with small forces - which will force the enemy to disperse forces. Or, on the contrary, your own fleet will not prevail at sea - then the picture will become mirrored and everything will end in the same way as the German raids ended in both the first and the second world wars.

    As far as I remember, during the Great Patriotic War, the Soviet fleet could successfully conduct operations solely because the high seas fleet of Germany was shackled, and subsequently destroyed by the forces of the Allies. This does not diminish the feat of our sailors - but you cannot trample on a heavy cruiser on an artillery boat.

    ps Just yesterday I was wondering: in the event of a conflict with Ukraine, the line of contact with the participation of the fleet can be increased from 1100 km to 1700 km (30%!), and Russia will be able to deliver air and missile strikes practically across the entire territory of Ukraine from 3 (! ) sides, and the threat of landing in Odessa or Nikolaev will force to delay significant forces. Similarly, for example, even with small Georgia - the coast is 20% of the contact line. That is, control over the enemy's sea communications will banal force him to reduce the concentration of air defense forces by at least 20-30 percent and delay additional fully combat-ready forces. And this is literally at the price of the fuel of the cruising ships - it will not even have to attack.
  22. iouris
    iouris April 27 2021 14: 58
    0
    If the war is "assumed", then we are talking about "future war". If the proposed war takes place, then the Russian Federation will be defeated. We must strive to ensure that there is no war.
    1. SVD68
      SVD68 April 28 2021 05: 59
      0
      Si vis pacem, para bellum.
  23. Stas1973
    Stas1973 April 27 2021 16: 16
    +1
    The article resembles the throwing of paints of the RKKF in the early 30s of the last century.
    1. Shishkov
      Shishkov April 28 2021 07: 13
      +1
      Great analogy !!!) Even, probably, in the late 20s)
  24. Basarev
    Basarev April 27 2021 18: 01
    0
    The last component is missing. Battleship of coastal defense. Ideally, it should be similar to the Virginia Southerners, in fact, the first semi-submersible ship: only a very fortified casemate with guns sticks out above the water. Here, the experience of pops is also applicable: the lenticular shape will allow you to have the minimum required area of ​​\ uXNUMXb \ uXNUMXbthe armor coverage and an extremely low silhouette. According to the same experience of popovoks, one should arm with guns of the highest possible caliber, with which I see an overwhelmed Peony. Such floating fortresses will be a very weighty reinforcement of the coastal fleet, I see one of the main tasks - not to allow amphibious assault.
  25. mik193
    mik193 April 27 2021 20: 04
    0
    Well, in the list of types of small ships, pp. 7 (attack torpedo ship) and 9, 10 (underwater minelayer and small torpedo sub) are definitely superfluous. If it is thought to create a mosquito fleet of this type, then probably all its elements should be ready to be built and repaired literally on their knees in the conditions of the industry dilapidated by the beginning of the war. Some of the boats named by the author can be combined according to their intended purpose. Sailing ships are, of course, nonsense. But it seems to me that the idea of ​​small ships in war conditions deserves consideration. It turns out that the emphasis should be placed on mine and anti-submarine warfare, amphibious and anti-amphibious operations and raiding actions of missile boats.
  26. Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO April 28 2021 01: 22
    +1
    Sailing frigates ?? What is this addiction?
  27. Revival
    Revival April 28 2021 17: 13
    +1
    "Another option is to make such a sailing ship."

    I confess, here I am hanging ...
    And so and so imagined this strategic frigate Ooooh
  28. EMMM
    EMMM April 29 2021 00: 52
    0
    In my opinion, today the Russian Navy serves more as an instrument of deterring hotheads from ill-considered steps. In parallel, a number of purely utilitarian works are being carried out to clean up (I apologize for the tautology) water areas from mine danger, both historical and created today in different parts of the world.
    I join Nazarius on the possibility of any of the four scenarios listed.
    Unfortunately, the author does not consider scenarios of using the fleet for preventive deterrence at all, believing that if there is a sword in your hand, then you need to cut it, and not just slightly push it out of its scabbard.
  29. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 29 2021 05: 20
    0
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    As a person who is poorly competent in the politics of the upper echelons, I want to believe that there will be no war. And whipping up this hysteria is also not worth it.

    Blessed is the believer. But all are believers.
    Russia has gone through dozens, if not hundreds of warriors in its history. And there will still be tens and hundreds of warriors in the history of Russia (as long as Russia itself remains). Do you believe in that?
  30. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 29 2021 05: 24
    0
    Quote: Civil
    Russian navy in a prospective future war

    Russia's participation in a future war will not do anything good. Especially considering our demographics and the state of the economy.


    You are not right. War is war - strife. The war against NATO will lead to the nullification of Russia and NATO.

    But a war against Georgia or against Ukraine will lead to the strengthening of Russia. NATO will certainly make some noise. But NATO will remain the enemy anyway. Therefore, no matter what Russia does for itself, NATO will always be against it. Well, since NATO's attitude towards Russia will always be the same, then NATO's attitude towards Russia's attack on Ukraine or Georgia or the like. you can give a damn. Whether we attack Ukraine or not, we are still bad for NATO.
  31. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 29 2021 05: 25
    0
    Quote: TatarinSSSR
    So, although I am not an all-perpetrator, I think the same way, the United States is playing for a long time, the next 30 will be very difficult for Russia.


    Are you Katz who offers to surrender?
  32. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 April 29 2021 05: 27
    +1
    The article is bad.
    The author should have gone deeper into the topic before this opus. Or, if you really wanted to write an article, then it would be worth choosing a narrower topic.
    There have already been many articles on this topic, for example, from Klimov or Timokhin.