Military Review

Vietnamese Soha: The number of T-14 "Armata" tanks and Su-57 fighters in the future may not be enough to protect the Crimea by Russia

109
Vietnamese Soha: The number of T-14 "Armata" tanks and Su-57 fighters in the future may not be enough to protect the Crimea by Russia

The Vietnamese military-themed edition Soha published an article by the columnist Bao Lam, who talks about the difficulties with the rearmament of the Russian army. The Vietnamese author makes the main emphasis on the fact that it is extremely difficult to advance the situation with the supply of the latest tanks T-14 "Armata" and Su-57 fighters.


Soha:

Russia has serious funding problems for these programs. In many ways, the emphasis on the production of the Su-57 was placed on cooperation with India within the framework of a joint program, but the Indian side withdrew from it.

We are talking about the Russian-Indian program for the creation of a fifth generation fighter FGFA, from which India left a few years ago, stating that the aircraft being created did not meet the characteristics of a fifth generation fighter.

Today, contracts for the supply of 76 Su-57 fighters have been signed for the Russian Aerospace Forces. Commenting on this, the Vietnamese author adds:

And that happened after the personal intervention of President Vladimir Putin.

Then the author goes on to the issue of Crimea. According to him, now the Russian army is demonstrating the forces that are capable of protecting the Crimean peninsula from encroachments. And then, in an article on a Vietnamese resource, it was stated that over time, this potential would dry up without replenishment with the latest tanks and aircraft.

Soha:

Since it is impossible to operate the modernized old weapons for an infinitely long time, in a few decades Russia will be left with a mountain of rusty tanks and aircraft produced in the 14th century, and a small number of T-57 Armata tanks and Su-XNUMX fighters. In the future, their number may not be enough to protect Crimea by Russia.



In his material, the Vietnamese author decided to draw a kind of apocalyptic scenario, pointing out that while maintaining the difficulties with the purchase of new equipment for the Russian army in adequate quantities, "the Russian armed forces will turn into obsolete and incapable of defending the country's territory."

From an article in Vietnamese media:

There is no hope of an increase in Russian arms exports, and there will never be. The situation can only be changed by changing the mindset of the leaders of the Russian defense industry. They don't need to compete to extol their strengths by claiming that Russian tanks and aircraft are the best in the world, but rather focus on the economic system and structural reforms.

It is noteworthy that the author from a country that can hardly boast of a grandiose renewal of its military-technical potential writes about the "aging weapons" of the RF Armed Forces. Many of Vietnam's weapons have been preserved since the time they were received from the Soviet Union. I wonder if there will be an article in the Vietnamese media in this regard about how long after the Vietnamese army, due to the lack of modern tanks and aircraft, "may lose the ability to defend its territory" ...
Photos used:
company "Sukhoi"
109 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Roman070280
    Roman070280 April 23 2021 12: 09
    +10
    the Russian army demonstrates the forces that are capable of protecting the Crimean peninsula from encroachments.


    From the encroachments of whom ??
    If from Ukraine, then half of what is available there will be enough for decades.
    And if from the USA or NATO, then it will no longer be necessary to count tanks with planes there ..
    1. Cool but not Igor
      Cool but not Igor April 23 2021 12: 26
      +8
      Everything the author writes correctly, if new equipment is replenished in small batches (due to a limited budget due to a weak economy), then there will come a period when the old equipment will serve, and the new one will not be enough and only for a limited number of soldiers of the contract army.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 23 2021 12: 34
        +11
        Vietnamese Soha: The number of T-14 "Armata" tanks and Su-57 fighters in the future may not be enough to protect the Crimea by Russia

        Comrades Vietnamese! Why are you buying shmal on the outskirts fool ?

        Do you lack opium and marijuana imported from Laos and Myanmar? ? ?
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik April 23 2021 13: 02
          +1
          Quote: Insurgent
          Vietnamese Soha: The number of T-14 "Armata" tanks and Su-57 fighters in the future may not be enough to protect the Crimea by Russia

          Comrades Vietnamese! Why are you buying shmal on the outskirts fool ?

          Do you lack opium and marijuana imported from Laos and Myanmar? ? ?

          Actually, they write everything correctly. Those crumbs that are in the flight institute and in the parade division, but in real troops they are not at all from the word and are unlikely to be.
          1. Genry
            Genry April 23 2021 13: 06
            +2
            Quote: lis-ik
            Actually, they write everything correctly.

            The Vietnamese contradicts himself.
            Either he wants the best, then he wants the most economical ones.
            So it is all there.
          2. hrych
            hrych April 23 2021 13: 11
            +2
            Quote: lis-ik
            Actually, they write everything correctly.

            Firstly, it's not the Vietnamese to say this ... they kicked the super-equipped Americans ... Secondly, Russia is not naked, but armed to the teeth and she needs Armata like a bear's fifth paw wassat
            1. lis-ik
              lis-ik April 23 2021 13: 13
              0
              Quote: hrych
              She needs Armata like a bear's fifth paw

              Yes, it is armed, but this does not detract from the fact that no new weapons are actually being supplied to the troops (I'm talking about the latest models, not about modernization).
              1. hrych
                hrych April 23 2021 16: 15
                +2
                There is the T-72 and its variations, which will not be equal for a long time, and this tower protruding high above the horizon. and even with the development of anti-tank weapons, it initially raises questions and is worthy of only a limited party in the troops. The Su-57 also should not be mass-produced, but for special operations, therefore, small-scale production is also encouraged. But we have the best interceptors, the best multirole fighters, reliable attack aircraft and front-line bombers. And almost a hundred new Su-35s, more than a hundred new Su-34s, more than a hundred new Su-30s deny that new weapons are not being supplied to our aviation.
            2. 210ox
              210ox April 23 2021 13: 38
              +1
              You about the "fifth paw" are out of topic. We need new weapons. Including T14-T-15.
              1. Genry
                Genry April 23 2021 13: 56
                +2
                Quote: 210ox
                We need new weapons. Including T14-T-15.

                The context of the article is about defense. Armata is specifically for a high-speed breakthrough, in defense it is redundant - there and sedentary equipment will do - if only the tower was stronger, since the chassis is buried in.
                1. 210ox
                  210ox April 23 2021 14: 48
                  +1
                  And I'm not talking about the context of the article. I answered a forum member who claims that our army is armed to the teeth and Armata is superfluous for her.
                  1. Genry
                    Genry April 23 2021 14: 54
                    0
                    Quote: 210ox
                    I answered the forum member,

                    And without appropriate quotation - it was misunderstood by me. hi
                    1. 210ox
                      210ox April 23 2021 16: 29
                      +1
                      It's okay. I myself am on emotions not in the subject fall.
                2. vic02
                  vic02 April 23 2021 14: 50
                  +1
                  if only the tower was stronger
                  further is no longer possible, the resource of modernization of the T-90 has been exhausted. The gun is no longer suitable for BOPS, corresponding to the new Americans M829A4. Vacuum for Armata only.
                  1. Genry
                    Genry April 23 2021 15: 11
                    0
                    Quote: vic02
                    the resource of modernization of the T-90 has been exhausted. The gun is no longer suitable for BOPS, corresponding to the new Americans M829A4.

                    Why write without reading?

                    https://politexpert.net/241160-pochti-armata-rossiiskii-burlak-ne-ostavit-i-shansa-inostrannym-tankam-na-pole-boya

                    https://topwar.ru/73707-proekt-unificirovannogo-boevogo-otdeleniya-burlak.html
                    1. vic02
                      vic02 April 26 2021 11: 40
                      0
                      Why write without reading?
                      There is no sense in inattentive reading. We take quotes from your own sources: "In 2009 it was frozen for an indefinite period ...", "At about the same time as the closure of the project of the updated combat module" Burlak ", domestic designers initiated the start of work on two now well-known models of armored vehicles ..." ... It turns out at that time it was considered that it was better to make a new tank than to get the result of such an upgrade.
                      What exactly is being done now (which shells, which machine gun) is in the category of rumors and idle speculation. It is not known if these rumors will be officially confirmed, and if they are, what decision will be made and implemented.
                      1. Genry
                        Genry April 26 2021 12: 36
                        0
                        Quote: vic02
                        We take quotes from your own sources: "In 2009 it was frozen for an indefinite period ...",

                        Waggle and read badly again.
                        Russia has resumed work on a once frozen main battle tank modernization project called the Burlak. ...

                        Do not confuse actual messages and project descriptions: 1st and 2nd links, respectively (you need to chew everything).

                        And key, you had:
                        Quote: vic02
                        further is no longer possible, the resource of modernization of the T-90 has been exhausted. The gun is no longer suitable for BOPS

                        And then everything is possible.
                      2. vic02
                        vic02 April 26 2021 13: 14
                        0
                        Don't Confuse Relevant Posts
                        So what's the matter, let's get your "relevant" posts!
                        And here it turns out everything is possible
                        If in your opinion, if you attach a battleship's gun turret to a tank, then this is an upgrade, then in my opinion - no (grotesque, but it specifically explains the idea). The facility must meet a set of technical requirements. If it was abandoned, the upgrade failed.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. vic02
                        vic02 April 26 2021 15: 20
                        0
                        Russia has resumed work on a once frozen main battle tank modernization project called the Burlak. ...
                        It was frozen and now thawed
                        Before the announcement from official sources that work has begun and what is being done specifically are nothing more than rumors, but speculation about the possibility of using new shells, respectively.
                        Not only does your vision fail, but also the perception of volumetric images
                        Do you know the meaning of the word "grotesque"? Not surprising, though.
                        that all the vacancies for the pizza delivery boy have ended? Do not make a mistake!

                        For some reason, when there are no other arguments, some people turn to rudeness.
                      5. Genry
                        Genry April 26 2021 15: 49
                        0
                        Quote: vic02
                        Do you know the meaning of the word "grotesque"?

                        In addition to the "grotesque" there is also "irony" - did you not suspect?
                        Quote: vic02
                        For some reason, when there are no other arguments, some people turn to rudeness.

                        Where does "pod..kolka" end and "rudeness" begin?
                        The word "nonsense" and the verb "brehat" are completely literary and close to the understanding of the southwestern part of Russia.
      2. hrych
        hrych April 23 2021 16: 29
        0
        Quote: 210ox
        We need new weapons.

        We need new weapons, but we do not need Armata specifically, at least in large-scale form. It is one tower higher, one and a half hulls longer. When our ingenious gunsmiths created a tank using the victorious experience of the Great War, they took care that the tank was faster, lighter and had a smaller projection. And this thing is twice as slow and sticks out more than a meter in height.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 April 23 2021 23: 08
          -2
          Quote: hrych
          It is one tower higher, one and a half hulls longer.

          Oha, 20 centimeters longer than abrams ... Well, just a huge tank! Considering that the tower has a real frontal projection area of ​​1 square meter ... Considering that the most valuable component in the person of the crew is reliably hidden in the hull ...
        2. Albert1988
          Albert1988 April 24 2021 14: 32
          -2
          Quote: hrych
          And this thing is twice as slow

          Do you have any idea what nonsense you wrote? The speed of the T-14 is more than 80 kilometers per hour with a mass of more than 55 tons! Only the T-80 can accelerate to such a speed ...
          Dear - you first at least study the issue, and then write anything ...
          Moreover, our Soviet gunsmiths created object 195 (from which the T-14's legs grow), which is even slightly larger in size than the T-14 (exactly by weight) and they were not embarrassed by something "size" .. ...
          1. hrych
            hrych April 24 2021 20: 47
            -3
            The cross-country speed of the Armata is 38 km / h with the base engine, and for the Omsk T-80U: 60 km / h. So how?
            Quote: Albert1988
            The speed of the T-14 is more than 80 kilometers per hour with a mass of more than 55 tons!

            Firstly, with a base engine of 62 km / h and on the highway. About farced engines just do not need to be vparivat. laughing Nobody is going to fake a mass tank. Count on basic. Tricky question; "Are you (you) going to drive a tank on the highway?" Those. T-80U off-road is not inferior to the highway Armata in speed laughing 55 tons according to your dignity?
            Quote: Albert1988
            the most valuable component in the face of the crew is reliably hidden in the hull ...

            Does the T-80 have it outside? With regard to the uninhabited tower, it is also a moot point. Rather, the main one. And by and large, this is what the tank turns into useless rubbish. If the electronics fail, and it comes out from the EMP of a nuclear explosion and no Faraday cages will help, then this is not a tank, but a blind - useless heap of garbage. If the electronics fail, the T-80, etc., will remain combat-ready on mechanics, and the telescopic sight will allow aimed fire. If the tank is the best means of post-nuclear use, i.e. an artillery gun on an all-terrain vehicle, with excellent protection of the crew from all the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion, then Armata - no one calls her in any way. Also a promising weapon is the EMP cannon, now ours from 6 km, in terms of range, has reached 10. This is certainly not an EMP of a nuclear explosion, but it also has the prospect of knocking out all the electronics. And How? Those. question. What if a promising tank is powerless against a promising weapon? Answer. Throw his blueprints in the trash.
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 April 25 2021 17: 19
              -2
              Quote: hrych
              The cross-country speed of the Armata is 38 km / h with the base engine, and for the Omsk T-80U: 60 km / h. So how?

              No way, because you, dear, wrote nonsense, forgive me! On the crossroads, the T-14 develops up to 70 (approximate data), at the moment this machine is the fastest running tank of all we have. And then - what is a "base engine"? The T-14 has only one engine - an X-shaped 12-cylinder diesel engine, a powerful piece that even in the "unpowered" version is far behind the T-80 gas turbine, which, by the way, is an excellent target for all IR warheads.
              Quote: hrych
              Does the T-80 have it outside?

              And in the T-80 it is in the tower, the tower is breaking through - it has at least 2 corpses, and with a high probability there are 3 corpses in general. The turret of the T-14 is breaking through - yes, the car is out of order, but the crew is alive and well, they can leave the car or even take it to the rear, if the chassis and dvigun are not damaged.
              Quote: hrych
              If the electronics fail, and it comes out from the EMP of a nuclear explosion and no Faraday cages will help

              Respected! What nonsense are you talking about here again? The tank is perfectly shielded from EMP))) And any (the power that can "enlighten" the tank you will not even get from the Tsar Bomb)! The only thing that can burn electronics in the tank, inside, is, for a minute, the most powerful electro-magnetic FIELD, and not electro-magnetic RADIATION))))
              I also want to disappoint you - all modern tanks, stuffed with electronics, perfectly survive all these electromagnetic troubles from a nuclear explosion))) Fortunately, everything has been tested for a long time at test sites. It can only damage plastic drones, well, or composite "eroplanes".
              Quote: hrych
              If the tank is the best means of post-nuclear use, i.e. an artillery gun on an all-terrain vehicle, with excellent protection of the crew from all the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion, then Armata - no one calls her

              Armata is generally an excellent weapon in a nuclear war, because its crew life support is an order of magnitude better than in our old cars, you can sit in it much longer, without protruding outward)))
              Quote: hrych
              Also a promising weapon is the EMP cannon, now ours from 6 km, in terms of range, has reached 10.

              Oha, only she works against drones, against a tank with a thick metal body - it's like an elephant's grain)
              Quote: hrych
              What if a promising tank is powerless against a promising weapon?

              Do nothing, because this "promising weapon" is generally on the sidelines for him - it is not even being done against him, because experts are well aware that no "EMP cannon" can do anything to a tank. Unless, of course, you make your tank out of plastic.
              Quote: hrych
              Answer. Throw his blueprints in the trash.

              Oha - you tell it to the Soviet designers)))) For I will tell you a secret - the T-14 is just a modernized "object 195" with modern electronics and more realistic weapons, made on a unified chassis))) That is, since the Soviet development there is nothing it has not changed especially in terms of the general layout) That is, it turns out that the Soviet engineers praised by you did something inoperative, abandoning the "old and reliable"?
              Probably, all the same, that the old Soviet, that modern Russian engineers understand how things are in reality, and not in the fantasies of sofa experts?
              1. hrych
                hrych April 25 2021 20: 45
                -1
                Less words like-nonsense- And then it will bounce laughing First, you have no idea what the EMP of a nuclear explosion is. The screen is useless here, it "fills" itself. Like in a fairy tale with a fox, when she stuck out her tail and pulled her out. For you can try to shield the electronics, but the antenna of the radio station, the GLONASS receiver and other external sensors, detectors and emitters are like that tail. And through them, the EMP will go inside, and the cut-off protection does not have time to work, because the pulse is very short and will give millions of volts to the wiring and circuits. Fast neutrons from neutron charges simply pass through the armor and can destroy the crew, not like the schemes. I’m not against armored drones, I’m not against Armata, but only for small-scale production. As a mass tank, it is NOT needed at all. Its tower sticks out higher, and the T-80 tower is at the level of an inhabited block, moreover, it is massive and it is easier to get into it. The T-80 was created to crush NATO after a nuclear strike, and naturally no infrared sensors of ATGMs will survive it. Therefore, an old, kind, mechanical grenade launcher, well, a cannon, okay, and a bunch of grenades, a brave NATO man laughing we are threatened. We have in storage three thousand T-80s and seven thousand T-72s, well, there are several hundred T-90s. Why the hell should we change this inheritance for a raw and lousy tank, useless in a nuclear war. I understand that the "tractor drivers" want to make money. A penny modernization, not even in the sense of devices, but their installation, contrary to the full cycle. But let them go through the forest. Let 10 thousand tanks be put in order. 10 thousand reliable, proven and promising (for nuclear war) tanks. These parasites not only make the tank heavier, but also deprive it of its versatility, it works worse in the mountains, etc. All pantone vehicles, self-propelled, floating platforms and tractors, were simply calculated on the T-72. All logistics and repair facilities are designed for it. No need to think narrow-minded. According to the EMP - the gun. If we got a quantum emitter, apparently a compact reactor (I'm talking about Peresvet). If not, he will receive it soon. Accordingly, the microwave pulsed emitter will receive powerful energy or has already received it. Accordingly, at a certain distance, of course, the EMP will be comparable to the EMP of a nuclear explosion. We will not even go into detail about thorium samples.
              2. Albert1988
                Albert1988 April 27 2021 01: 01
                0
                Quote: hrych
                In fewer words like-nonsense- And then it will bounce First, you have no idea what the EMP of a nuclear explosion is.

                There is a concept - I am in no way friends with physicists, so I have an idea that EMP from nuclear weapons is no longer such a terrible phenomenon - the maximum will cause temporary interruptions in the operation of electronics and a mustache ... And then in space they learned to somehow protect themselves from the terrible radiation there, and from nuclear weapons no, L - logic!
                Quote: hrych
                Fast neutrons from neutron charges simply pass through the armor and can destroy the crew, not like the schemes.

                Firstly, not fast, but slow - fast for that and fast, that they will fly by quickly and will not do much harm. And if we are talking about a neutron bomb (which no one has, for boyazzo), then whatever tank you take - the effect is the same, that is the T-14, that the T-80/90/72 ...
                Quote: hrych
                I'm not against armored drones, I'm not against Armata, but only for small-scale production.

                Small-scale production means: prohibitive cost, difficulties in production, problems with training the crew, because it is unprofitable to teach for small series again ...
                Moreover, no one will build thousands of tanks - there will be hundreds of T-14s at most, well, maybe 1000 in total, but there may well be a lot of other "armatures" - the same T-15 as TBMP, which in modern conflicts, oh, how necessary, there will be many ARVs, and possibly self-propelled guns on this chassis, obviously more than tanks.
                Quote: hrych
                Its tower sticks out higher, and the T-80 tower is at the level of an inhabited block, moreover, it is massive and it is easier to get into it.

                Firstly, it does not stick out much higher, this is one, two - the frontal projection of the tower there is 1 square meter (the rest is devices) - you still get into it, and secondly, in the era of high-precision weapons that hit the roof, the silhouette plane has lost its meaning, and if some antediluvian "rapier" will shoot at the T-14, then the "Afghanite" will be waiting for them with a smile ...
                Quote: hrych
                The T-80 was created to crush NATO after a nuclear strike, and naturally no infrared sensors of ATGMs will survive it. Therefore, an old, kind, mechanical grenade launcher, well, a cannon, okay, and a bunch of grenades, a brave NATO soldier threatens us.

                Respected! After a vigorous blow, no one will fight with tanks! In general, no one will fight - they will survive. Everyone understands this very well, so modern BTTs are created primarily not for a single dash to the English Channel, but for actions in a local network-centric war, and in a global war they will play a very auxiliary role - to clean up everything that remains alive after the "beautiful and smart missiles. "
                Quote: hrych
                Why the hell should we change this inheritance for a raw and lousy tank

                Probably because "raw and lousy" all this legacy is superior in all available characteristics? Because it can hit all NATO tanks, while the "legacy" does it with difficulty and at great risk to itself? Maybe because enemy shells simply do not reach the "raw and lousy", because one of the most powerful KAZ in the world is on it?
                Quote: hrych
                A penny modernization, not even in the sense of devices, but their installation, contrary to the full cycle. But let them go through the forest. Let 10 thousand tanks be put in order. 10 thousand reliable, proven and promising (for nuclear war) tanks.

                Which will NOT be needed in the conditions of this very nuclear war, because after it there will be nothing to fight for, but in the conditions of a local mess they will feel very bad.
                Quote: hrych
                All pantone vehicles, self-propelled, floating platforms and tractors, were simply calculated on the T-72. All logistics and repair facilities are designed for it. No need to think narrow-minded.

                I agree - no need to think narrow-mindedly - the T-72 is no longer just yesterday, it is almost the day before yesterday, today there is enough of the modernized T-90, and tomorrow what will we have? That's right - for tomorrow - only armata.
                Quote: hrych
                According to the EMP - the cannon. If we got a quantum emitter, apparently a compact reactor (I'm talking about Peresvet). If not, he will receive it soon.

                So this is a hefty laser to shoot down all sorts of impudent "global hawkies", you can't really run after tanks with it ...
                Quote: hrych
                Accordingly, the microwave pulsed emitter will receive powerful energy or has already received it.

                And what does microwaves have to do with it? They have a lot of shortcomings, this time, while very rare microwave lasers work stably at very low temperatures, and secondly, they do not pass through the metal, no matter what power they are - they only heat it up, so here it is really possible to target only the antennas from the maser , but with their dimensions, this is a problem ...
                Quote: hrych
                Accordingly, at a certain distance, of course, the EMP will be comparable to the EMP of a nuclear explosion. We will not even go into detail about thorium samples.

                So let's define the type of radiation? Do we have microwaves or a different spectrum like nuclear weapons? Otherwise everything got confused ...
                And yes - believe me, for modern electronics, even EMP from nuclear weapons is not so scary and is capable of creating only temporary interruptions, and huge installations are more likely to be bombed from the air than let them near tanks ...
              3. hrych
                hrych April 27 2021 03: 07
                +1
                Tell your physicists that they are schizos. wassat The EMP of a nuclear explosion has nothing to do with cosmic radiation. Is it a supernova explosion. The energy is such that nothing really helps. Only advertising chatter, taking into account that it is impossible to experience it in real conditions. Microwave - emitters, another attack for Armata. It also burns electronics, can detonate ammunition and boil brains. Tank against tank - utter heresy. The tank's task, like a cavalry, is to break through to the enemy's rear, destroy communications, warehouses, reserves, etc. With a throw to take in pincers, cauldrons, etc. If the tanks went at each other, both commanders must be shot for mediocrity. In principle, the Germans and we knew how to use tanks. What is now being preached in the West is complete insanity. At the end of the war, the Germans began to lose and went on the defensive at the end of the war, so the bet on the Tigers, in fact, is like a hybrid of a tank and an SPG. Therefore, the slowness and the bet on a powerful weapon for defense. When they were conducting offensive operations, it was the task of the T-3 and T-4 tanks to break through to our rear. And we have, respectively, the T-34, the advantages of such machines are speed, not such a powerful weapon made it possible to beat personnel, vehicles, etc. So this German stake on heavy tanks, emanating from agony, was inherited into NATO. So, until now, they spank heavy tanks, Abrams, Challengers, Leclerks, Merkavas, Leopards2 and whoever is monkey like Arjun, Altai, etc. Moreover, the cunning Germans themselves, according to the first Leopard-1, had a mass, like our tanks. And these Russian WINNERS with victorious experience made the T-72 tank as a succession from the post-victorious T-54 to the T-55 and T-64. The T-72 itself was evolved into the T-80 and T-90. And Armata is monkeying and servility to the West. So you blurted out here, they say, to tie the tyanki nateo wassat Throughout the Cold War, somehow the T-72 terrified this natio, and then suddenly they surfaced. Of course, I understand that the Ministry of Defense will play this Armata politely and correctly. It is clear that nothing more will shine for her in small-scale production. For, as I said, all the logistics under our weight are not calculated. They talk about the universal platform of the Armata, but not dare to say that on the basis of the T-90 we have the future of armored vehicles BMPT Terminator, based on the T-72 TOS Solntsepek, plus transport-loading vehicles on the same base. There is an armored recovery vehicle BREM-1M. There are bridgelayers and fencing machines based on the T-72 and T-80. There is a demining machine. There is a radiochemical protection machine. Msta-S uses T-72 units and assemblies. And it's great when all this economy is unified with the main tank. Here's a one-stop platform. Armata has absolutely no unification, but only chatter. Armata herself is also nothing fundamentally new from herself. There are no direct breakthrough technologies. Well, the tower is dead there, okay. The chassis is classic. Does not surpass competitors, does not fly over the battlefield, there is no gravitational launch laughing The workings on the Armata, there are all sorts of Afganites, etc., to use in the modernization of the T-72/80/90 and calm down.
              4. Konnick
                Konnick April 27 2021 03: 53
                0
                .
                Armata is monkeying and servility to the west

                This is an attempt to cut the dough and load UralVagonZavod.
                If KAZ is so effective, then how does the level of protection of the T-90 with KAZ differ from the Armata?
                Only the T-90 has better protection in close combat against infantry, the main part of observation and aiming devices under the turret armor, as well as a machine gun paired with a cannon, while Armata does not have this under a 5 mm tin can and a machine gun. Someone is smart in MO, who does not let this ugliness into service. And some stupid jackets let Armata go to the parade and disgraced themselves.
              5. Albert1988
                Albert1988 April 27 2021 23: 57
                -1
                Quote: Konnick
                This is an attempt to cut the dough and load UralVagonZavod.

                Oha, yes, but object 195, which has been developed since the 80s and its earlier predecessors - is this a Soviet attempt to cut the dough?
                Quote: Konnick
                If KAZ is so effective, then how does the level of protection of the T-90 with KAZ differ from the Armata?

                Probably the fact that you can't put KAZ on the T-90 of this level? For the mass, for the energy to power all this, for the dimensions of the equipment?
                Quote: Konnick
                Only the T-90 has better protection in close combat against infantry, the main part of observation and aiming devices under the turret armor

                Oha, what is the basic placement of the T-14? The optical head of the sight still sticks out laughing , and everything else is under the same armor)))) Which, by the way, in the upper hemisphere of the T-14 is 3 times thicker in size than that of the T-90, and if we take the equivalent, then every 5 ...
                Quote: Konnick
                Armata has a 5 mm tin can and does not have such a machine gun.

                And you, respected there with a ruler, came up and measured how thick the "tin" was, checked what it was made of, and looked, what else was there in the tin? Eh, experts !!!!
                Quote: Konnick
                Someone is smart in MO, who does not let this ugliness into service.

                Oha, is it okay that the Ministry of Defense closely supervises this project and is actively testing this machine in all possible conditions to find and remove all possible jambs?
                Quote: Konnick
                And some stupid jackets let Armata go to the parade and disgraced themselves.

                Oha, back in the 70s we have "stupid jackets" everywhere, which machines like armature are actively developing as a promising replacement for classic tanks?

                Eh, sofas, everyone knows better ... The only question is - why aren't you sitting in the Ural Transmash in the design bureau - maybe they would teach the local "stupid jackets" to design tanks ...
              6. Konnick
                Konnick April 28 2021 04: 38
                0
                The only question is - why don't you sit in the design bureau on the Ural Transmash?

                Do not confuse Omsk Transmash with hucksters from Uralzavod
              7. Albert1988
                Albert1988 April 28 2021 19: 28
                -1
                Quote: Konnick
                Do not confuse Omsk Transmash with hucksters from Uralzavod

                Ugums, is it okay that the armature was originally developed at Uraltransmash? Did the hucksters come up with object 195 too?
            2. Konnick
              Konnick April 28 2021 04: 44
              0
              Armata passed the stage, but with jackets you didn't think about those




              The last photo characterizes the general state of affairs at the Uralvagon. And my communication with Nizhny Tagil specialists confirms this.
              And which upper hemisphere did you mean? Show with your finger laughing
            3. Albert1988
              Albert1988 April 28 2021 19: 40
              -1
              Oga, passed)))) And where is this stage in the troops and who has to say. that he passed?
              And what do you want to say with these pictures? Did you show me the T-14 body kit covered with a casing? So there the protection of devices from fragments and bullets is better than that of the T-90, and the tower itself there is about the same, adjusted for a 125 mm gun (instead of 152 mm):

              That is, with instruments, but without a fashionable casing, it looks almost like this friend:

              Moreover, there are some suspicions that it is not just about the same, but in general the same, only the devices are already very different.
              And what questions do you have for the upper hemisphere? Hint - hatches are thinner than the rest of the roof one and a half times)))
      3. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 27 2021 23: 48
        -1
        Quote: hrych
        Tell your physicists that they are schizos. The EMP of a nuclear explosion has nothing to do with cosmic radiation. Is it a supernova explosion. The energy is such that nothing really helps.

        In general, from these words, everything is clear to you. laughing The couches always know better how to make tanks better than engineers, what are the features of different types of electromagnetic radiation better than physicists, "swam, we know" ...
        Quote: hrych
        Microwave - emitters, another attack for Armata.

        Oha, where did you get the microwave emitters (that is, masers) workable and applicable in the field? From the microwave, the microwave emitter for a minute will not work a little)
        Quote: hrych
        It also burns electronics, can detonate ammunition and boil brains.

        Oha, through a thick metal case! Precisely "schizos" here are clearly not physicists))))
        Quote: hrych
        The tank has a task, like a cavalry, to break through to the rear of the enemy, destroy communications, warehouses, reserves, etc.

        Forgive me, this is his task during the Second World War, now tanks are used a little differently))) Times have changed, sir, technologies are different, sir ...
        Quote: hrych
        the advantages of such machines are speed, not such a powerful weapon made it possible to beat personnel, vehicles, etc.

        This is all great, but only the days of such vehicles have passed - ATGMs and BOPSs leave no chance for the average vehicle, and the MBT for that and the MBT, that the armor and firepower of the heavy is combined with the mobility and speed of the average.
        And what is not "preached", but exists in the West - I completely agree - is complete insanity, and the Westerners themselves understand this, and that's why they frantically seek solutions, because the new powerful guns old Leo, Abrashi and Leclerk don't pull, weighting is unacceptable, won - Abrasha M1A3 has grown so fat that, according to the amers themselves, it is no longer applicable. And the T-14 is exactly the solution - the abandonment of a huge tower with a large armor volume and the simultaneous withdrawal of the crew from the impact (because the enemy will shoot at the tower).
        Quote: hrych
        And these Russian WINNERS with victorious experience made the T-72 tank as a succession from the post-victorious T-54 to the T-55 and T-64. The T-72 itself was evolved into the T-80 and T-90. And Armata is monkeying and servility to the West.

        You, dear, tell this to General Sergei Maev, preferably in person, and I will see where and how far this honored Soviet general will send you, because the T-14 is essentially a reworking of his brainchild in the face of object 195 - that is, Soviet engineers to your "monkey and flirt with the West"?
        Quote: hrych
        Throughout the Cold War, somehow the T-72 terrified this nate

        Oha, and now "nate" has adopted new BOPSs, which T-72s with DZ do not pierce through and through ... You will at least get in the know ... And then you look funny, giving out here the information of the day before yesterday interspersed with science fiction ...
        Quote: hrych
        They talk about the universal platform of the Armata, but it’s not dare to say that on the basis of the T-90 we have the future of armored vehicles BMPT Terminator,

        Ugums, and you make TBMP based on the T-90 first, and then we'll talk ... And the "terminator" -0 is an extremely niche car and will just be small-scale.
        Quote: hrych
        It is clear that nothing more will shine for her in small-scale production.

        It is clear that tanks will not be made in tens of thousands now, so the T-14 series is good if there are about 1000, but the T-15 is a very serious machine, with very great prospects, it is quite possible that in the future TBMP will completely replace the MBT ...
        Quote: hrych
        Msta-S uses T-72 units and assemblies.

        Oha, only there the T-72 chassis was sawn with large mats ... And the armata was just developed as a universal chassis for an ACS ...
        Quote: hrych
        Armata has absolutely no unification, but only chatter.

        These are just the typical words of a dilettante who, well, is not at all aware of the problem, forgive the frankness))) The "versatility" of the T-72 chassis was not taken immediately, and was a necessity, it will become obsolete in 10-15 years and the T-72 will finally go out of service - all accompanying vehicles will be released ... And we already have a replacement in the form of an armature ...
        Quote: hrych
        Armata herself is also nothing fundamentally new from herself.

        There is only one fundamentally new thing - the initial focus on creating versatile machines, even with different engine locations, which is extremely convenient and practical! What is missing in the T-72 chassis ... And by the way, the chassis there is very new, in terms of the softness of the T-14 in comparison with the T-72, it's like a Mercedes in comparison with a trabant ...
        Quote: hrych
        does not fly over the battlefield

        Oha, it doesn't fly well under 70 on the crossroads ...
        Quote: hrych
        The workings on the Armata, there are all sorts of Afganites, etc., to use in the modernization of the T-72/80/90 and calm down.

        And this, dear, is impossible - we will crawl out of the mass, we will have to install an additional power plant, and we will have to place all this stuff, but it will not be small somewhere. the Americans won - they hung all sorts of windbreakers around the abrash and what happened? The mass has already grown beyond the capabilities of the chassis ... We have the T-90m with its 50-ton mass already the limit of capabilities, and you still want to hang something ...
        So the honored old people in the person of the T-72 will not last long - about 15 years, the old people advanced in the person of the T-90 and T-80 for a maximum of 20 years, and then only new things - only the armata and its line of equipment ...
      4. hrych
        hrych April 28 2021 01: 08
        0
        First of all, I wrote about microwave frequencies in general and in a nutshell. But Armata is also sad. I repeat, detectors, cameras, antennas, etc. are outside the armor and are targets for electronic warfare and energy weapons, which have now received a powerful, compact megawatt-class energy source. Previously, such an installation was only possible for a ship and a nuclear submarine. Nowadays, automobiles can do it. Therefore, it became possible to fry a darned tanker, like stewed meat in a tin can, without opening it, became possible in the near future. If I hadn't argued for the sake of argument, I would have remembered the Foliage remote mine clearance machine
        https://topwar.ru/179473-mashina-distancionnogo-razminirovanija-listva-poluchit-novuju-svch-pushku.html
        And which by a microwave emitter undermines charges with electric detonators for hundreds of meters. Therefore, Afghanite and others will simply be put out of action and undermined in the future. "Foliage" uses the power of a diesel engine, and if you give it a megawatt, it will burn detonators not a hundred meters, but ten thousand. And this is not the future, but the present. I repeat for tankers, the tasks of the tank have NOT changed ABSOLUTELY. Therefore, the heresy about the NATO tank, piercing through the T-72, gives you the ideologue of the "tank for tank" philosophy. wassat There is no unification of Armata, because there is really no Armata itself wassat But the unification of the T72-90 is real, not in heads.
        Quote: Albert1988
        T-72s will not last long - 15 years,

        So they thought about the Kalashnikov assault rifle, but soon it will be its centenary. T-72, having received new systems, is fully integrated into the theory of network-centric warfare, etc. Therefore, it is not morally obsolete. About nuclear war, I hope we figured out where the mechanics rules. I repeat, for the fifth time, I am not against small-scale production, please do a hundred, let him recommend himself against the barmaleev. But, like the main tank, it has nothing to do. Now unmanned wedges are in vogue. For God's sake. But, I repeat, against a serious enemy, not in the local area, but in the battle for existence, when nuclear and energy weapons are used, the T-72 will dominate the battlefield. Drones, unmanned aerial vehicles, Armats generally grunted.
      5. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 28 2021 20: 13
        -1
        Quote: hrych
        First of all, I wrote about microwave frequencies in general and in a nutshell. But Armata is also sad. I repeat, detectors, cameras, antennas, etc. are outside the armor and are targets for electronic warfare and energy weapons, which have now received a powerful, compact megawatt-class energy source.

        Oha, and on the T-90 a cloud of antennas, devices and cameras outside the armor, so what? I once asked my daddy - here you have developed the optical heads of the "curtains", and they stand outside, what will happen to them in a nuclear explosion? He replied - "nothing", a short-term interruption in work for a few minutes, and then everything will be restored, here is the EMP from a nuclear explosion ... I somehow to my bat, an engineer with 50 years of experience at the KMZ named after. Zvererva and excellent Soviet physics and mathematics education I believe more ...
        Secondly, this, as you said, "compact" energy source is comparable in size to the T-14s themselves (and in terms of mass, most likely, too - nuclear weapons, after all), which means that you can forget about its mobility. For an anti-drone laser, its mobility at the level of the S-400, of course, is impressive, but not for anti-tank weapons ...
        Quote: hrych
        Therefore, it became possible to fry a darned tanker, like stewed meat in a tin can, without opening it, became possible in the near future.

        I will disappoint you - in order to fry a tank with a thick metal body - using a microwave will not work even in a very long term, because: a) the microwave does not pass through the metal, it heats it up, that is, the tank armor will have to be melted, and this is just hellish energy , b) masers (and only they are capable of this) either work at extremely low temperatures, or are still the size of a house ...
        Quote: hrych
        https://topwar.ru/179473-mashina-distancionnogo-razminirovanija-listva-poluchit-novuju-svch-pushku.html

        Well, yes, they compared a mine in a thin tin case with a thick tank armor ... Moreover, will you get 100 meters to the tank? And in our case, to a tank with radars and, in the future, with its own mini drone? Oh well...
        Quote: hrych
        Therefore, Afghanite and others will simply be put out of action and undermined in the future.

        There will not be - since no one will approach hundreds of meters ... And then - mines are somehow cheap, who told you that the same Afghani does not have protection (if it is on the external devices of the equipment)?
        Quote: hrych
        etrov. Therefore, Afghanite and others will simply be put out of action and undermined in the future. "Foliage" uses the power of a diesel engine, and if you give it a megawatt, it will burn detonators not a hundred meters, but ten thousand. And this is not the future, but the present.

        Ugums, is it okay that the main thing is not power, but dissipation? So far, only the maser is not scattered so strongly, and I wrote about it above ...
        Quote: hrych
        I repeat for tankers, the tasks of the tank have NOT changed ABSOLUTELY.

        Oh, considering that there are no more tank wedges and deep strikes, tanks are cleaning out what is left after art and aviation ...
        Quote: hrych
        Therefore, the heresy about the NATO tank, piercing through the T-72

        For some reason, this heresy works for NATO, in their doctrine, tanks are used exactly as tank destroyers, and the Abrashi in the BC has only crowbars, so when any Iraqis or Saudis begin to use it as a normal tank from our point of view, that is not with 40 crowbars, but with 40 bombs in the turret - here there are such detachments of the towers that our T-72 never dreamed of ...
        Quote: hrych
        gives you the ideologue of the "tank for tank" philosophy

        Yah? I am not a designer and not a BTT commander, therefore I cannot adhere to the "ideology of using tanks" - I leave it to competent people) But it does not matter, because this is exactly the ideology NATO adheres to and in all local conflicts they implement it, and in conflict with us will, then we must resist. After all, with the appearance of thick muslin in the Wehrmacht, we in the Red Army began to make SU / ISU-152, IS-2 and pulled up the T-34 to the level of T-35-85, while the ideology of "tank for tank" in the Red Army was not up to the end of the war, but the Germans had it, so we acted accordingly.
        Quote: hrych
        There is no unification of the Armata, because there is really no Armata itself. But the unification of the T72-90 is real, not in heads.

        Oha, but nothing that the T-72 once did not exist? Was the T-54 real and its unification with different machines too?
        Progress means progress, that when the new comes into its own, the old leaves, and the new completely takes its place ...
        In the same way, we can say that there are no refueling stations for electric vehicles, only this does not negate the fact that electric cars are the future, and over time, electric refueling stations will appear ...
        Quote: hrych
        So they thought about the Kalashnikov assault rifle, but soon it will be its centenary.

        Oha, and that is why now the AK-12 is going to the troops, converted by 60 percent, the contract soldiers are given AEK971, and the Abakan special forces, which differ from the Kalash in about the same way as the T-14 from the T-72?
        Quote: hrych
        T-72, having received new systems, is fully embedded in the theory of network-centric warfare, etc.

        Only now, not the T-72, but the T-90, the T-72 is following the path of maximum budgetary modernization, even without the commander's panorama and the replacement of booking packages, because everyone understands perfectly well that these machines will go into storage in the near future, giving way to more new. Even the T-90 is not considered as a long prospect, a sign of this is the refusal to install the 2A82 on it, because it was necessary to remake the small body (make slots) for the new AZ, but they refused, because the Ministry of Defense understands that the T- 14 and T-90 will also go into storage.
        Quote: hrych
        About nuclear war, I hope we figured out where the mechanics rules.

        Oha, mechanics)))) In a nuclear one, what allows you to survive in conditions of radioactive contamination of the area rules, and about EMP and so on - see above.
        Quote: hrych
        I repeat, for the fifth time, I am not against small-scale production, please do a hundred

        And it will be gold ... And I will also repeat - now there may actually be a hundred tanks in the future, because the rest of the heavy equipment will consist of 80% TBMPs, which in terms of armor have already equaled the tanks (T-15), and soon with some progress and in terms of firepower, they can be quite equal to themselves.
        Quote: hrych
        But, I repeat, against a serious enemy, not in the local area, but in the battle for existence, when nuclear and energy weapons are used, the T-72 will dominate the battlefield. Drones, unmanned aerial vehicles, Armats generally grunted.

        I will also disappoint you - in the capitalist world, after the exchange of nuclear weapons, the money will be zeroed out and no one will ever fight with anyone for anything, because there is nothing else, in Soviet times it was possible to fight for something different from money, but now not. Therefore, there will never be a nuclear war - no one wants to nullify the money. Then capitalism has an existential enemy in the face of the USSR with a completely alternative ideology, and now the nuclear power will squat only to a general economic collapse and ruin, no benefit ...
        And the most important thing is that what comes out first, no matter what it will be - T-14, T-72, etc., will "crack" in the nuclear explosives.
      6. hrych
        hrych April 28 2021 20: 52
        0
        Quote: Albert1988
        Oha, and on the T-90 a cloud of antennas, devices and cameras outside the armor, so what?

        In case of failure, the tank will remain combat-ready. The telescopic sight and mechanics will leave it a unit, not a junk. Nobody canceled directional emitters. There are also EMP projectiles. They fly up closer and cover the area. A laser with a megawatt source, Armatu will simply vaporize, not what will fry the insides. A maser is not a maser, but a microwave emitter with a parabolic reflector and a megawatt power source in the line of sight will solve all problems with gadgets.
        Quote: Albert1988
        Oh, considering that there are no more tank wedges and deep strikes, tanks are cleaning out what is left after art and aviation ...

        Absolute nonsense. The tasks are the same. And the Americans did not learn to use tanks, and they did not know how, and the fact that the Arabs are even worse tactics, then excuse me. According to EMP, your dad is not a decree to me. I have my dad. Okay, leave it to yourself. I'm not going to grovel. But for reference, I will tell you that the consequences of the EMP of a high-altitude nuclear explosion, where the ionosphere is a large parabolic antenna, can withstand the circuits on rod lamps, naturally at a sufficient distance from the epicenter. Everything else goes through any defense, she just does not have time to cut off, a very short impulse. And the energy levels are monstrous. When Belenko hijacked the plane, the Americans and the Japanese were surprised at the lamps. Not the point, you have a dad ... AK-12 is just a modification and already have complaints about it. Ak-74 will remain the fighter's main small arms. Moreover, people like you, apparently, believe that the adoption of the sample will immediately lead to the release of millions of barrels, including new ones, into the trash. This is not the case, substitution as it develops. Therefore, the T-72 and its brothers, this utter rubbish will never displace. Moreover, in real practice, she will be thrown into the National Guard to serve up.
        Quote: Albert1988
        And it will be golden ...

        So it is not needed at all. If you do, do it as a breakthrough, and not a pathetic attempt to do it too.
        Quote: Albert1988
        I will disappoint you too

        This is you counting money. But this is only the equivalent of real values. In reality, only a conditional equivalent, the good old barter. Now gold and precious metals have given way to the equivalent of oil. The dollar is not the equivalent of gold and silver, but the equivalent of black gold. The rest is village myths. The disappearance of payment systems and money will not change anything, unless the class of banking parasites disappear. There will certainly be a nuclear war. And if the USSR essentially obeyed, capitulated and disbanded itself - the result of the arms race, coupled with traitors. True, the Bolsheviks were led to the threat of MD and SD missiles, coupled with cartoons about SDI. I do not believe in the original betrayal of Gorby and the clique. They were sold at a later stage, when the point of no return was passed. Correspondingly, if Russia makes a space atomic helicopter with a quantum emitter. Those. coupled with missile defense, it will still deploy a real SDI, it will simply force the United States. EU with NATO towards disarmament and self-dissolution. Those. will be able to destroy their warheads, and she herself will be able to deliver gifts to American children with her ICBMs, hypersonic gliders and intercontinental torpedoes and cruise missiles. Say - fantastic, but that is what happened with the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. Who said that there will be no return? Stop arguing and drag daddy. They stayed where they were and dispersed.
      7. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 29 2021 01: 40
        -1
        Quote: hrych
        In case of failure, the tank will remain combat-ready. The telescopic sight and mechanics will leave it a unit, not a junk.

        Ugums, and what will happen to the T-14? well, let's put the radars out of order, but all the rest of the electronics are covered under thick armor, nothing will burn it either ...
        Quote: hrych
        Nobody canceled directional emitters.

        Only now they are so effective that the tank will destroy you earlier than let you approach with this emitter)))
        Quote: hrych
        A laser with a megawatt source, Armatu will simply vaporize, not what will fry the insides.

        Oh, well, the fiction has just gone))) For some reason, lasers with such sources are somehow not very mobile this time, so they obviously don't have the power to "melt" a whole tank ...
        Quote: hrych
        A maser is not a maser, but a microwave emitter with a parabolic reflector and a megawatt power source in the line of sight will solve all problems with gadgets.

        From what then does it not decide? If that were so, would all the cars be so good? But no, only a highly specific application ...
        Quote: hrych
        Absolute nonsense. The tasks are the same. And the Americans did not learn to use tanks, and they did not know how, and the fact that the Arabs are even worse tactics, then excuse me.

        Well, yes, nuda, the Americans do not know how, we will agree, but from something within the framework of their army they use it very successfully.
        Quote: hrych
        According to EMP, your dad is not a decree to me. I have my dad. Okay, leave it to yourself.

        Again - why listen to a graduate with many years of experience? You probably need to listen to your fantasies, because they give a more accurate picture of the world, right?
        Quote: hrych
        When Belenko hijacked the plane, the Americans and the Japanese were surprised at the lamps. Not the point, you have a dad ...

        First, you should at least find out the situation - at that time we did not have microelectronics capable of withstanding such overloads, so they installed lamps, and not at all against EMP)))))
        Quote: hrych
        AK-12 is only a modification and already complaints about it

        It was accepted as the main one - that is, the AK-47 was sent to the warehouse, and there were complaints about it, like any new product, and then there was a cycle of corrections, so the 47th went to the warehouses ...
        Quote: hrych
        Therefore, the T-72 and its brothers, this utter rubbish will never displace.

        Well, yes, well, yes - you tell the engineers about the "rubbish" - I'll see what they say to you in response ...
        Quote: hrych
        The disappearance of payment systems and money will not change anything,

        Will change everything, you said yourself:
        Quote: hrych
        the class of banking parasites will disappear

        That is, the class ruling the world will disappear, that is, EVERYTHING will change, which means that these parasites will never suit the JV - they will not want to disappear)))
        Quote: hrych
        Say - fantastic

        Yes, because SOI is a cardboard box. and the collapse of the Union had much deeper and more complex roots, and the external factor here played not even a secondary, but a third-rate role.
        Quote: hrych
        Stop arguing and drag daddy. They stayed where they were and dispersed.

        Well, yes, well, yes - the arguments are over, it immediately went "no need to drag in daddy" - my dad worked in the defense industry for 50 years, he knows perfectly well what is there and how, and, unlike many sofa ones, he has about weapons and its physical principles works are very good ideas, not fantasies ...
        In essence, the dispute - apart from a very few fant-assumptions about some kind of omnipotent EMP (in whose omnipotence physicists have already become quite disillusioned) and blatant retrograde, you have no arguments against Armata ...

        Lastly, here's one interesting thought for you - the T-14 is NOT the brainchild of modern "jackets", it's just the development of Soviet developments, the USSR and all its tank schools - both Kharkov, Leningrad, and Ural were moving towards the creation of the T-14 or its variations, that is, in your opinion, Soviet engineers wiped themselves out with their experience and began to create "rubbish" with manic persistence? just think about it)))))
      8. hrych
        hrych April 29 2021 02: 19
        +1
        I have plenty of arguments. I repeat, even though dad, even grandmother, but physics is physics and data is data, and then, when high-altitude nuclear explosions were made, there were no microcircuits at all, and the transformer winding melted in oak electronics. Therefore, it is counterproductive to talk about what microelectronics will withstand, without full-scale tests. The beginning of the end of the Union was precisely with the surrender in the Arms Race. The rest is nuance. When the system staggered, all its deep-seated problems emerged. And after the military surrender of the political bureaucrats, they were forced to pluralism, glasnost, conversion, etc. The class of financiers is only six of the real owners of wealth and rulers. They will destroy the class of financiers, and so on in the near future. When the tank is not increasing its combat power, without fundamentally changing anything. increases by 10 tons or more, then the engineers drive in the neck and break the glasses. With the development of automation, a crew of three remains. It is an order of magnitude more difficult for an attack helicopter to manage with two soldiers, i.e. pilot and gunner, and then the third did not go anywhere, well, where is this automatic?
      9. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 29 2021 18: 31
        -1
        Quote: hrych
        I have plenty of arguments.

        Then where are they?
        Quote: hrych
        when high-altitude nuclear explosions were made, there were no microcircuits at all, and the transformer winding melted in oak electronics.

        Then what kind of survival of tanks in the case of the use of nuclear weapons can we generally talk about? It's not like the T-72, the T-34 will fail there! In general, I will tell you a "secret" - tanks survive, any, only in the third zone of a nuclear explosion - in the first one is understandable, and in the second it may survive, but it will be fired in such a way that only a suicide bomber will sit in it ...
        Quote: hrych
        Therefore, it is counterproductive to talk about what microelectronics will withstand, without full-scale tests.

        The first samples of microelectronics were tested in full-scale - then there was still no ban on nuclear tests. It has been shown that in the third zone of nuclear explosives inside a powerful metal case, microelectronics is quite capable of surviving. And all the external elements of electronic devices are based on lamps, since they are now small. Although the thermal imager will still burn out - the matrix is ​​outside the car anyway, all small cameras will burn out, but the usual optical devices will remain - because the T-14 has a remote control line for these devices deep under the armor inside the hull.
        Quote: hrych
        The beginning of the end of the Union was precisely with the surrender in the Arms Race.

        And that is why, at the end of the Union's existence, we created the most advanced things in almost all areas? And, by the way, the objects "rebel", "boxer", "hammer" were created in Kharkov, in Leningrad a "tank of limiting parameters" was developed (which recently appeared in the media under the code "burlan"), in Tagil they began to work over the "Improvement-88" program according to which object 195 was born - the same armata, only with an older filling and 152mm caliber.
        Quote: hrych
        The financier class is just six of the real wealth owners and rulers.

        And who, then, are our "real rulers"? Anunnaki from Nibiru?
        Quote: hrych
        When the tank is not increasing its combat power, without fundamentally changing anything. increases by 10 tons or more, then the engineers drive in the neck and break the glasses.

        Oha, what can our defense industry do without you! Are you really completely thoroughly familiar with the capabilities of this machine? Do you know for sure the penetrating ability of the gun and shells, the capabilities of its BIUS, the resistance of the armor against all types of ammunition? With a 99,999% probability, I can conclude that you are not at all familiar with the performance characteristics (except for the officially published and highly distorted ones), and you did not like the appearance of the car (due to inveterate retrograde), on the basis of which you made your "conclusions" ...
        Quote: hrych
        With the development of automation, a crew of three remains. An order of magnitude more difficult for an attack helicopter is two soldiers, i.e. pilot and gunner, and then the third one has not gone anywhere, well, where is this automation?

        I really want to introduce you to some comrades from our native VO, quite numerous, who prove that a tank generally needs a crew of 4 people, because it is difficult for three of them to work with a tank in the field in case of repair and other maintenance)))) Are you saying something about "automation")))))

        And now for physics. So you made me, dear, bother competent people and ask them "childish questions".
        And so:
        1) Destruction of a tank by means of microwaves is a fairy tale, because the existing emitters give such dispersion that whatever the power, and beyond 200 meters you will not light up, moreover, the maximum that you can do to the tank is to cause induction currents in the antennas and the upper layer of armor , from which there will be interference in the operation of the equipment and the case will heat up (very locally) by several degrees, that's all ... To do something more serious you need a maser, but it is not yet available (in its normal form)
        2) "melting a tank with a laser with a megawatt source" is an even bigger fairy tale, because lasers capable of melting the thickness of metal (and not anyhow, but armor steel) with a thickness of at least 15 cm are not mobile (and there is not much megawatt power, but the operating time is often femtosecond), and even the forces of "Peresvet" are not enough for them. Moreover, the "Peresvet" itself is extremely not mobile (mobility at the level of S-300 / S-400, which is unacceptable for a PT)
        What can we do to a tank with a laser - we can really hurt - "knock out the eye" - light it into the optics, burn the gunner's sight and eye at the same time, and maybe the brains. There will be enough gas laser. And here we have a huge advantage of the T-14 - since the sights are remote and the picture is displayed on the monitor, there will be no harm to the tanker from the sighting by the laser.
        3) Regarding nuclear weapons, EMP, etc. If we are talking about the first nuclear explosive zone, no tank will survive there, if the second, then it does not matter whether the electronics are preserved there or not, the cars will be fired in such a way that you cannot sit there. But in the third - everything that is under the armor (there is microelectronics and sits there) - will survive quietly, everything that is above the armor is performed to the maximum on lamps (they are now tiny - they can literally be a few millimeters), the same AFAR can also be on the lamps completely. The thermal imager is just a pity - there, yes, the matrix is ​​only semiconductor and you can't hide it inside.

        Therefore, the verdict - in a nuclear war, the T-14, T-90 and T-72 will behave exactly the same, the T-14 will even have an advantage, since the filling of the capsule allows you to stay there much longer without leaving than in the same T -72.
      10. hrych
        hrych April 29 2021 20: 05
        +1
        Quote: Albert1988
        Anunnaki from Nibiru?

        Families of Welfs, Glucksburgs, Oldenburgs, Wettins. From them are the branches of the nobility. After which come the common people of the top of the Vatican, other cleric and obscurantist organizations. Such order formations. Then come the industrialists. And only after them financiers, stock speculators, led by banking houses - clans. Well, and then bureaucracy.
        Quote: Albert1988
        for existing emitters

        Those. you take existing emitters and make a promising tank for them. And you need to take for a promising tank, resistance to promising weapons. On lasers and other energy weapons. your experts and you with them appeal with old concepts to Kirienko's eggs. In addition to the emitters themselves, which are not so large, there were energy storage devices. Roughly accumulators-capacitors. Which were charged for a long time with diesel engines, from the power grid or from the operation of four jet engines of an aircraft, etc., but instantly gave off energy. The dimensions of these drives are huge, i.e. the size of a house and enormous weight. Such installations are within the power of stationary objects, not the smallest ships and large aircraft. Il-76 type. Accordingly, the most promising was the aviation complex. There is no point in laser ships, because the laser works in line of sight, and the targets in the fleet have long been over-the-horizon. And the main trouble with such devices is the "long recharge" for the next shot. Therefore, laser liners have sagged in terms of efficiency, the plane also needs to be lifted for ages, it cannot loit for a long time. And the warheads, and with false targets, will fly from the start in 20-30 minutes, until the pilots even have time to run and start the engines. Not the point. But now, having a compact nuclear power plant of high power (according to the President), and even instantly capable of reaching maximum power from a quiet mode, in addition to its compactness, it allows you to get rid of a heavy diesel engine, network connection or 4 aircraft engines of a liner as energy sources. Allows you to get rid of huge and heavy energy storage devices and any cable management. Those. compact emitter and compact YSU. The truck is already coping with this. Well, like Peresvet. And the main problem is solved - the time between shots. Those. if 10 warheads are flying with 20 decoys, then already now, a shmyak, a shmyak, a shmyak, and everything is destroyed by shots, like from a rapid-fire cannon. Of course, tanks will not be pierced by a ground installation, including a mobile one. She needs to process the upper hemisphere. But here the Il-76, or Tu-95, being at an altitude of 10 thousand, with such an installation, a tank platoon will poke holes in a few seconds. But this is not necessary when an optical quantum generator is simply changed to a quantum generator of a different wavelength, well, there are masers, for example, as well as microwave emitters. railguns, the notorious EMP emitter, etc. This is not the future, but the present. Recently, Putin called Peresvet a combat laser. It is too large for a device that illuminates the optics. There you can see an optical sight - a mirror telescope, you can see a powerful laser designator and the quantum emitter itself, covered with a hinged cover. To illuminate the devices, a powerful target designator would be enough, but here is something. And this something sazu was put on the protection of ICBM mines. I mean, it's ALREADY in service, not in the future. And here you are with your armature. I'm afraid in general, the tank, as a class of weapons, is surviving its last years. At least in that line-up. Its only advantage for the future is a post-apocalyptic, post-nuclear perspective. wassat With protection not from bullets and projectiles, but from energy weapons. Such a futuristic forecast.
      11. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 29 2021 23: 26
        -1
        Quote: hrych
        Families of Welfs, Glucksburgs, Oldenburgs, Wettins. From them are the branches of the nobility. After which come the common people of the top of the Vatican, other cleric and obscurantist organizations. Such order formations. Then come the industrialists. And only after them financiers, stock speculators, led by banking houses - clans. Well, and then bureaucracy.

        Everything is clear - I was wrong with the Anunnaki - instead of them "formazones", how is Starikov doing there? Here it is clear - you can not discuss further, they did not read Marx and were not even interested, at least listen to modern Marxists like Rudoy - maybe it will become clearer how the economy works and who has power and why in the capitalist world. Otherwise, you will continue to think so. that the world is ruled by an "English queen" ....
        Quote: hrych
        Those. you take existing emitters and make a promising tank for them. And you need to take for a promising tank, resistance to promising weapons.

        Ugums, therefore, develop resistance to promising electronic warfare systems, ATGM, ATGM, BOPS.
        Because not "experts" (they are conducting the investigation in a well-known film), but competent specialists perfectly assess the prospects and opportunities for the development of lasers and masers for the near future and their verdict is unambiguous - nothing that can destroy, damage the tank in the energy section. weapons will not appear for the next 30 years. And if it appears, it will be necessary to radically revise the entire concept of the BTT, and then all the well-deserved old men like the T-72 will be the first to be scrapped. For a laser that can "melt armature" T-72 will not oppose anything at all - its armor is banally much weaker.
        Quote: hrych
        But here the Il-76, or Tu-95, being at an altitude of 10 thousand, with such an installation, a tank platoon will poke holes in a few seconds. <Then there is a lot of fiction that has nothing to do with reality ...>


        In principle, it makes no sense to disassemble the rest, since there are only fantastic assumptions that a wunderwolf will appear and burn everything ...
        Only here I will tell you, dear, that all these fantasies were, are and remain in the minds of science fiction-futurists, but BOPS, ATGM and ATGM are now and are developing oh so well, that should be protected from their promising options promising tank. This is the first thing. Second - armata is not a specific product, it is a platform, that is, on its basis, you can make any car that fits into certain fairly wide mass-dimensional frames. This means that the appearance of future vehicles will change, and it will be much easier to change than that of the old line of tanks.

        And finally, where did we start? That the T-14 has a tall silhouette, that the speed along the intersection is supposedly low (which is not true). How did we end? That the T-14 turns out to be vulnerable to some kind of super-duper-duper fantasy weapon, the appearance of which can be expected for another 100 years ...
        What does this mean? That's right - that you have no real arguments other than retrograde against the T-14 and Armata ...
      12. hrych
        hrych April 30 2021 00: 00
        +1
        Read your KarlaMarla yourself. The Queen of England truly rules, as do the kings of Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Spain. As well as the princes of Mnako, Luxembourg and other Liechtenstein. And the republican rule of the rest of the states is a method of control by the same forces. And about horror there is a King of Arabia, there is a King of Jordan, etc. All kings are vassals of the Queen. Therefore, they kept their crowns. It’s stupid to deny Masons, they don’t hide themselves for a long time. Homo-Satanists have already adopted laws for themselves long ago. The Masons themselves are run by the same houses. These are their sixes. Well, okay, closer to the tanks.
        Quote: Albert1988
        in the section of energy weapons will not appear for the next 30 years.

        It exists and was created long ago. It's just that it has now become available for conventional combined arms operations.
        Quote: Albert1988
        old men like T-72 will be scrapped

        The idea is correct, but it is Armatu, which is still under development at this stage and will be left forever. Why do something that is flawed even before you were born?
        Quote: Albert1988
        what a wunderwaffe is about to appear

        It will not appear, but appeared. And Armata is not a platform, but wants to become a platform. The real, operating platform T-72. They began to argue precisely over the vulnerability of the Armata with the electronic control of the tower to energy weapons, before the EMP of a nuclear explosion, which is not promising, but which is 70 years old. Rather, you argued. As a result, he himself admitted that the thermal imager would burn out. I even felt sorry for him
        Quote: Albert1988
        The thermal imager is just a pity - there, yes, the matrix is ​​only semiconductor and you can't hide it inside.

        And what is a thermal imager, an electronic sighting device. So what's next? How to operate a weapon? How to shoot? Everything. sailed. He himself proved that the end of Armata. Congratulations.
      13. Albert1988
        Albert1988 1 May 2021 16: 54
        -1
        Quote: hrych
        Read your KarlaMarla yourself.

        Well, yes, well, yes)))) Do you at least yourself understand what kind of porridge you have? you are constantly appealing to Soviet engineers who were the product of a country built on the principles of Marxism, and you yourself are pushing "old people" about the world's freemason ...
        Quote: hrych
        It exists and was created long ago. It's just that it has now become available for conventional combined arms operations.

        And what has it been doing all this time? Was it in the warehouse? Who is the pest that kept him there? The answer is simple - there were attempts to create it, but nothing more or less workable did not work, now there are some progress, but not very large, so it is very naive to wait for it within the next 30 years.
        Quote: hrych
        The idea is correct, but it is Armatu, which is still under development at this stage and will be left forever. Why do something that is flawed even before you were born?

        You have not given a single argument / counterargument about its "inferiority", except for a hypothetical vulnerability for so far fantastic types of weapons. I gave you a lot of arguments about the superiority of this machine over everything that has been created in our country and in the world in this segment, including in terms of the degree of protection against even energy weapons, which exists today.
        Quote: hrych
        It will not appear, but appeared

        Then what kind of wunderwaffe is it, name the specific characteristics.
        Quote: hrych
        And Armata is not a platform, but wants to become a platform.

        She cannot "want" anything - she is inanimate, but the engineers who created it, remembering well the mats that they issued when sawing the T-72 chassis, made only for the T-72, for other vehicles, made a universal chassis right away , which a) has a huge stock of mass, b) has a modular MTO that can be stuck anywhere - even in the stern, even in the nose, even in the middle, which allows you to make a very wide range of machines without straining. And what the armature will have to do is become a mass platform, but it is not a fact that there will be a lot of tanks among the machines based on armata.
        Quote: hrych
        They began to argue precisely over the vulnerability of the Armata with the electronic control of the tower to energy weapons, before the EMP of a nuclear explosion, which is not promising, but which is 70 years old. Rather, you argued. As a result, he himself admitted that the thermal imager would burn out. I even felt sorry for him

        Of course, because the T-72's thermal imager will burn out in the same way)))) And the T-80. You will be interested in what the salt of the modernization of our T-72 is mainly - there% 50 - the installation of new thermal imagers at a cost. And most importantly, the T-14's thermal imager will burn out, but the rest of the optical sights will remain, because the outer part of the electronics there is lamp-based, it will be on the side.
        Quote: hrych
        And what is a thermal imager, an electronic sighting device.

        Which is now actively put on the T-72! And yes - the thermal imager is just a component of the tank's optical sighting system!
        Quote: hrych
        How to operate a weapon? How to shoot?

        And what would a conventional telescopic sight burn out from? There is oak electronics, even in the USSR they began to develop such.
        Quote: hrych
        Everything. sailed.

        Sailed, dear, you. We sailed to the complete absence of arguments against, except for some kind of "crypto-weapon", which supposedly "melts" the armature, but no one has seen this weapon, although it has existed "for a long time." Conspiracy as it is ...
  2. hrych
    hrych April 29 2021 21: 51
    0
    And this is what we need for the near future. For besides the Arctic in Russia, it is winter for half a year. Instead of doing reinforcing nonsense
  3. Albert1988
    Albert1988 April 29 2021 23: 28
    -2
    And what do you think, that this T-80 was abandoned in due time? Maybe because they are expensive and difficult to operate, and the performance characteristics are not very good? And I agree - now we need to modernize old machines - while they still serve, but here tomorrow we need something completely different, and this is already different - this is the T-14 and a line of equipment based on armata. But in order for us to have it ready tomorrow, it must be run in and hone today.
  4. hrych
    hrych April 30 2021 11: 20
    +1
    Now the question of the Arctic has arisen and its ability to start from half a turn at low temperatures gives the T-80 a second life. The times of Gorby and EBN cannot be considered normal, there the logic did not work. But in the USSR, before the collapse of the T-80 had a stable cluster (from a quarter to a third) among the main tanks and no one was going to give it up. And gluttony is compensated by speed, omnivorousness and fear of cold. For the rest of the tanks, a system of oil racks, etc., was practiced. That works poorly in the vastness of the Arctic and when performing tasks in removing bases. Therefore, the T-80 has a near, bright future. Of course, in the southern latitudes it is impossible to think of a better diesel engine, in the sands and dust the gas turbine Abrams drank problems. It is warm there and there are no problems with the establishment of engines. Therefore, there are T-72 and T-90 for the south. Everything is logical. T-80 in the north, T-72/90 in the south, and in the middle latitudes there is a mixed park, depending on the tasks and the time of year. Everything is logical and beautiful.
  5. Albert1988
    Albert1988 1 May 2021 16: 56
    -2
    Quote: hrych
    Now the question of the Arctic has arisen and its ability to start from half a turn at low temperatures gives the T-80 a second life.

    Exactly, but the T-80, firstly, is being modernized according to an extremely simplified scheme (cannot be compared with the T-90M), and besides, we need it today, and tomorrow there will be the same T-14 in the north, which have additional power plants allowing you to start the engine, even a diesel one, in cold weather as well as a gas turbine engine,
  6. hrych
    hrych 2 May 2021 03: 24
    0
    Not tired of carrying the same blizzard in the second round? In addition to thermal imaging bells and whistles, the T-72 has a conventional telescopic sight, with an eye through the eyepiece. laughing Everything, to dad, to schizic physicists on Armata to pray wassat
  7. Albert1988
    Albert1988 2 May 2021 18: 35
    -1
    Quote: hrych
    Not tired of carrying the same blizzard in the second round?

    This is said to me by a man who talks about the fantastic battle lasers "melting the tank" and the world government of the Freemasons headed by Elizabeth II))))
    Quote: hrych
    In addition to thermal imaging bells and whistles, the T-72 has a conventional telescopic sight, with an eye through the eyepiece.

    Ohh, and they will shine a laser into this eyepiece, so weak, a sheet of plywood, at most, burns through, and your scope will be covered with the gunner's eye ...
    And the electronics of the T-14 will be covered by the EMP of the thermonuclear bomb at such a distance from the epicenter, at which the T-72 will be completely covered without any electronics ...
    Quote: hrych
    to the schizic physicists

    Oh yes, said a person who has no idea about the properties of EMP (including from nuclear weapons), laser, microwaves and ... this is already enough ...
    Quote: hrych
    pray to Armat

    Said the man praying on the T-72)))))

    God-level reasoning laughing
  • Overlock
    Overlock April 23 2021 14: 06
    +20
    Quote: hrych
    they kicked super-equipped Americans ...

    Thanks to the military-technical assistance of the USSR! And without her, they would still run through the jungle
    1. hrych
      hrych April 23 2021 15: 59
      +4
      Quote: Overlock
      Thanks to the military-technical assistance of the USSR!

      Thanks to help and personal courage. Without the latter, even though heaped up with weapons, there is little sense.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock April 23 2021 19: 03
        +17
        Quote: hrych
        Thanks to help and personal courage. Without the latter, even though heaped up with weapons, there is little sense.

        Agree
  • hrych
    hrych April 23 2021 13: 20
    +6
    Quote: Cool but not Igor
    due to limited budget due to weak economy

    Oh! Economists have pulled up, and the coolness is also off scale wassat Whom have you read? GDP at PPP was calculated? Or did HSE believe it? Like Boreas and atomic icebreakers did it, but the tanks didn't? laughing Doller tall? So we have the State Defense Order in solid and wooden wassat
  • Kaw
    Kaw April 23 2021 15: 39
    -3
    Quote: Roman070280
    From the encroachments of whom ??
    If from Ukraine, then half of what is available there will be enough for decades.
    And if from the USA or NATO, then it will no longer be necessary to count tanks with planes there ..

    And if, for example, Ukraine is in a place with the United States (well, just like Azerbaijan together with Turkey or Afghanistan together with the USA or Vietnam together with the USSR)? What, then, also with nuclear weapons? Is the whole world in dust?
    1. Roman070280
      Roman070280 April 23 2021 15: 56
      -1
      Ukraine is now and so "together with the United States" ..))
      1. Kaw
        Kaw April 23 2021 16: 15
        0
        The degree of this "together" may vary.
    2. your1970
      your1970 April 24 2021 06: 27
      +1
      Quote: Kaw
      Quote: Roman070280
      From the encroachments of whom ??
      If from Ukraine, then half of what is available there will be enough for decades.
      And if from the USA or NATO, then it will no longer be necessary to count tanks with planes there ..

      And if, for example, Ukraine is in a place with the United States (well, just like Azerbaijan together with Turkey or Afghanistan together with the USA or Vietnam together with the USSR)? What, then, also with nuclear weapons? Is the whole world in dust?

      Why all - only in Lviv ... READINESS apply in all - and Sherkhan and Tabaki (c) GDP ...
      But if they don’t understand it anyway, then yes, then they will have to dust
  • venik
    venik April 23 2021 17: 13
    +3
    Quote: Roman070280
    From the encroachments of whom ?? If from Ukraine,

    =========
    If from Ukraine .... Then there is no new technology at all and cannot be ... Only slightly "shamanized" T-64 tanks (still from Soviet times) .....
    So much for the Vietnamese! How much help did they get? In 1979, only the Union of them (brat) from China and saved! And so it would be another Chinese province!
  • horus88
    horus88 April 23 2021 12: 12
    +2
    The main thing is that there will be enough missiles with a nuclear warhead if that, and tanks, okay, we can handle it without armature
    1. NIKN
      NIKN April 23 2021 12: 25
      +7
      We will rent a T34-85 for a kraynyak for a while. :))
      1. novel66
        novel66 April 23 2021 12: 39
        +3
        and the Su-100, cool stuff! Kolya, hello hi
        1. NIKN
          NIKN April 23 2021 12: 41
          0
          Hi Roma! hi Yes, weaving is a cool thing and can do it now. In the DPR, according to my IS-3, they removed a hundred square meters from the pedestal for anti-tank capabilities.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 23 2021 12: 52
            +2
            Quote: NIKNN
            In the DPR, according to my IS-3, they removed from the pedestal


            Filmed near Konstantinovka. But the gun didn't work on it. It was a purely armored movable machine-gun point.
            At the end of June 2014, the IS-3 was baptized by fire, attacked the Ukrainian Armed Forces checkpoint near Ulyanovka, where the Nazis suffered losses.
            However, the tank did not fight for a long time, it was out of order.
            The militia hid him in one of the beams, and after 2 weeks dill found him and sent him to Kiev, where he still stands at the building of the National Military History Museum.




    2. Strannik_GO
      Strannik_GO April 23 2021 12: 58
      0
      Thinking with the knowledge of the past, world 2 (when wall to wall) ..., this time has already passed, in this reality the priorities are shifting - 1.preservation of industrial and human potential (The use of a massive strike by aviation and carriers of nuclear weapons - at this stage, the priority is given to the troops Air defense and missile defense, for the rest of the army's divisions existing weapons are enough to organize barriers.) After stage 1, a long pause awakens the two opposing sides - the battles are local in nature. At this time, the period of mass production of the latest technology will begin (completely different cost and volumes).
      2. And numerous mobile mechanized groups capable of maneuvering between zones of radioactive contamination will be introduced into the offensive. (Only here, and no more, you will need highly effective equipment.) And small volumes of new equipment being produced now serve for the purpose of working out the technological process and familiarizing (teaching) it.
      1. bk316
        bk316 April 23 2021 13: 58
        +6
        in this reality, priorities shift

        Greater delirium has not been seen for a long time on VO You've probably read a lot of science fiction.
        1. In a nuclear war with the participation of the Russian Federation, no one will succeed in preserving the industrial potential. Of course, part of the BB will be intercepted and there will not be enough of them for small towns, but the million-plus population will be destroyed in any way, no matter what missile defense system you build.
        2. In order to organize the mass production of high-tech products, many months are needed in greenhouse conditions, in conditions when all production chains are ruined, this is generally impossible. An example of how long it took the United States to start the production of ventilators according to the finished drawings. We will fight with stocks of old equipment.
        3. Most likely there will be no offensive as such, why capture the radioactive desert. Local operations to destroy command centers do not require tank armadas.
        1. Overlock
          Overlock April 23 2021 14: 07
          +20
          Quote: bk316
          Greater delirium has not been seen for a long time on VO You've probably read a lot of science fiction.
          1. In a nuclear war with the participation of the Russian Federation, no one will succeed in preserving the industrial potential. Of course, part of the BB will be intercepted and there will not be enough of them for small towns, but the million-plus population will be destroyed in any way, no matter what missile defense system you build.
          2. In order to organize the mass production of high-tech products, many months are needed in greenhouse conditions, in conditions when all production chains are ruined, this is generally impossible. An example of how long it took the United States to start the production of ventilators according to the finished drawings. We will fight with stocks of old equipment.
          3. Most likely there will be no offensive as such, why capture the radioactive desert. Local operations to destroy command centers do not require tank armadas.

          Nothing to add hi
  • cniza
    cniza April 23 2021 12: 13
    +2
    And then, in an article on a Vietnamese resource, it was stated that over time, this potential would dry up without replenishment with the latest tanks and aircraft.


    How wise they are, there are no words ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 23 2021 12: 40
      +5
      The East is a delicate matter, and the Far East is also a distant one. lol
      Vittorio! hi
      1. cniza
        cniza April 23 2021 15: 15
        0
        Roma, happy Friday! hi

        This is Southeast Asia, which is even more mysterious. yes
  • Ruslan Sulima
    Ruslan Sulima April 23 2021 12: 16
    -1
    Yes, they are not the descendants of those whom Li Xi Cyn once defended ...
    1. mojohed2012
      mojohed2012 April 23 2021 14: 23
      +1
      They were also protected by Wang-Yushin and Si-Ni-Tsyn.
  • El Chuvachino
    El Chuvachino April 23 2021 12: 19
    +1
    Again a repetition of old fakes. Or maybe they just reached Vietnam smile
  • Blond84
    Blond84 April 23 2021 12: 21
    +1
    Oh, this Vietnamese plow
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk April 23 2021 12: 22
    +2
    Is there a Vietnamese "plow", in addition to the Chinese or what? I'm confused)))
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 23 2021 12: 41
      +2
      plow wherever agriculture is ..
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 23 2021 12: 45
      0
      Quote: From Tomsk
      Is there a Vietnamese "plow", in addition to the Chinese or what? I'm confused)))

      Slightly below, about Sohu and Soha.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 April 23 2021 12: 23
    +8
    I wonder who in the world has most of the weapons not from the 20th century? Or abrams with leopards is it a kind of know-how? Does everyone have the latest aviation? Did the B-52 leave the assembly line yesterday? Etc. Who can afford a massive rearmament exclusively on modern models? Even mattress toppers with their generator of candy wrappers are not even close to such a thing ..
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 April 23 2021 12: 27
    +1
    Vietnamese Soha recently read that Soha is a Chinese edition. So whose edition is this?
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 23 2021 12: 43
      +1
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Vietnamese Soha recently read that Soha is a Chinese edition. So whose edition is this?

      Sohа ("Sokha") - Vietnam smile , Sohu ("Sokhu") - China yes
  • spirit
    spirit April 23 2021 12: 27
    +1
    For me, if you install and further modernize a good KAZ, the panorama and warmths are worthy, then 72-90 will calmly serve for another 30 years! Of course, taking into account the fact that they will not be used in head-to-head battles against modern MBT hi
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 April 23 2021 12: 30
    -1
    In principle, the Vietnamese can give advice, they are the only ones who inflicted irreparable damage to the Amers because of which they ended the war, and on the terms of the winners.
    1. kit88
      kit88 April 23 2021 12: 48
      +11
      Interestingly, and with what, and most importantly, with whose weapon they fought? what
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner April 23 2021 13: 32
        +1
        winked And it seems like our calculations of air defense missile systems and anti-aircraft gunners who shot down amers, as it were, did not exist. All were shot down by vintar flip flops. laughing
  • Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 April 23 2021 12: 33
    +3
    They apparently listened to the appeal of the GDP, where it was said that the Russian army was renewed by 70% and the renewal would continue.
  • bobba94
    bobba94 April 23 2021 12: 43
    +1
    If I had read this article by a Vietnamese author 30 years ago, I would have thought ... how true, how relevant it is written. Now I just smiled ...
    1. Kaw
      Kaw April 23 2021 15: 57
      -1
      What has changed since then? The T-72B tanks were partially replaced with the T-72B3, and the BTR-80 with the BTR-82a, from which our army was equal in combat capability to the armies of NATO or China? Or maybe a decisive advantage will be given to us by one hundred and fifty new 4 ++ planes (and even those lag behind in their capabilities from foreign counterparts). Or maybe the fact that we have massively replaced all KAMAZs and Urals in the army (they give the 70% that our president likes to talk about in his messages)
      1. Adimius38
        Adimius38 April 24 2021 08: 05
        0
        Yes, you are writing correctly, one and a half two hundred new aircraft will not make the weather. if now we write off all the Su-27, MiG-29, Su-24, then we will actually have less than 50% of the current amount of aviation. And this amount is clearly not enough to cover such a large country.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 April 23 2021 12: 50
    +1
    Vietnamese Soha: The number of T-14 "Armata" tanks and Su-57 fighters in the future may not be enough to protect the Crimea by Russia
    ... Are they serious ???
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner April 23 2021 13: 27
    +1
    Lord, and these there too! Strategists, EPRST!
  • garik77
    garik77 April 23 2021 13: 30
    0
    Not later than three days ago, I saw a flight of SU-57 in the Ministry of Defense, flew beautifully, probably preparing for the parade. So these planes are being made at an accelerated pace.
    And in January there was only one more plane
  • Wolf
    Wolf April 23 2021 14: 45
    +1
    The Vietnamese journalist (analyst) writes how he will give out NO EVEN ANYTHING THERE. Correctly through the article mediocre he says that the POWER OF THE ARMY depends on the economic power of the state, but in fact the economic power does not critically determine the POWER OF THE ARMY !!! FOR A STRENGTH AND POWERFUL ARMY, THE MOST IMPORTANT SUFFICIENT ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IS NOT BETWEEN !!!
    The author analyzes in accordance with his capabilities and concepts.
    For today, the T90M Proriv are pretty good, if not, and the best themselves as a tank. As for SU 57 smile Ma let ROAFAR destroy NATO in Europe (by plane) on SU 30 CM2 or SU 35 C and with 3 squadrons, so he will not give out this author's restriction either.
    MIRAGE of technology and marketing is deceiving if the essence of the problem is forgotten. A good pilot SHOULD ENOUGH AND SU 27 WITH ROAFAR RADAR AND WILL DESTROY THE FLOOR ESKADRILE F22 OR F35. smile
    But there Israel made a promising program for Carmel, and there it is clear what is most important for the future of weapons.

    https://youtu.be/ZajPKxMqPAI

    There it is obvious that the graphic capabilities are good and that the glass cockpit. To do this, you only need a good graphics processor and a CPU, I wrote GOOD but not the best ones themselves, but you can buy good things in Taiwan, Korea, China even starts up in Israel, and in Russia, CPU Elbrus, etc. and will buy for a ton at a cheap price, there is nothing complicated here. The most important thing here is that they (the construction of tanks) are GRAPHICALLY connected in real time and, more importantly, with the central command.

    P.S. One person here said give me 120mm mortars with OIL PAINT shells and I will make them GET COMBATABLE QUICKLY !!! hi
    So the author analyzes in a warehouse with its own capabilities and there is NO EVIL OF INTENTION!
  • Kaw
    Kaw April 23 2021 15: 49
    -1
    Quote: horus88
    The main thing is that there will be enough missiles with a nuclear warhead if that, and tanks, okay, we can handle it without armature

    The whole world in ruin?
  • viktor.
    viktor. April 23 2021 15: 52
    +1
    China and Vietnam, Serious Experts! stop
  • Kapkan
    Kapkan April 23 2021 16: 27
    +1
    Experts from God ...
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 April 23 2021 16: 57
    +1
    Has it been an hour for LisitsIn retired to hit forecasts analytics?
  • xorek
    xorek April 23 2021 17: 40
    -3
    The number of T-14 "Armata" tanks and Su-57 fighters in the future may not be enough to protect the Crimea by Russia

    And there they, in principle, are not needed .. Crimea is actually a fortress with its catacombs and other structures of long-term defense, built in Soviet times and with the construction of the Kerch Bridge and the railway, there is an active restoration of everything that was created and abandoned there .. Well, they are building something new ... So the Vietnamese comrades do not worry about us and the Crimea ... It will stand to the last, if necessary .. soldier There so much Russian blood has been shed during its history, and whoever has not tried to storm it. We must hold out!
    1. Overlock
      Overlock April 23 2021 19: 06
      +14
      Quote: xorek
      Crimea is actually a fortress with its catacombs

      What kind of catacombs? Their significance is completely leveled by WWII
  • Adimius38
    Adimius38 April 23 2021 19: 35
    -3
    Yes, the author writes everything correctly, Russia is not the Soviet Union, where the military-industrial complex worked day and night and had colossal production capacities. Take data on fighters for example MIG-23 years of production 1969-1985 (3630 machines) +769 in the UB version and these are comrades for 16 years good Take our vaunted SU-35 - (112 CARS SINCE 2008 AND THIS FOR 13 YEARS) Do you feel the difference ???? IF now we massively write off all the Su-24, Su-27, MiG-29, then what will we fly on ??? Su-30 is the same song 100-120 aircraft in the Russian Aerospace Forces and these are comrades since 1992, despite the fact that there were 630 of them built for 2018, that is, in 26 years, the Russian Aerospace Forces received a hundred fighters ... the rest, as we know, have gone for export from the total
    1. your1970
      your1970 April 24 2021 06: 37
      -1
      Quote: Adimius38
      Yes, the author writes everything correctly, Russia is not the Soviet Union, where the military-industrial complex worked day and night and had colossal production capacities.

      AND? Did this save the Soviet Union? Fields cluttered with tanks - stopped the traitors ?? Maybe it made sense to do something for the people, maybe at least the people would come out to defend the Soviet Union?
      USSR, Oo-oo-oo, where are you?
      1. Adimius38
        Adimius38 April 24 2021 07: 48
        0
        comrade are you from the forest? that's there and aukay.
        1. your1970
          your1970 April 26 2021 07: 15
          -1
          And you probably from the forest, once did not notice that the military-industrial complex working day and night, did NOT save the USSR !!!
          What was the use of the fields crammed with tanks - if the CPSU in full force, all 16 million party members - betrayed the USSR ??? From the mountain of helicopters - if all the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB did not interfere with the seizure of power - but modestly lowered their eyes to the ground - they say we don't see, we don't hear, we don't know?
          What was the use of a heap of ships - if the people did not come out to defend the USSR?

          Z. Y. By the way, there is also the opinion that one of the reasons for the death of the USSR was the military-industrial complex. The USSR did not pull the military wishlist, did not master it ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • starley
    starley April 23 2021 22: 51
    0
    weird people. If the company is going to drink and there is not enough whiskey,
    they will not stop, they will find something to catch up with the norm.
  • Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich April 24 2021 00: 51
    -1
    this is a weapon for the future, where does the Crimea, guys ????
  • stepka_razin
    stepka_razin April 24 2021 06: 29
    0
    Well, only the blind and corrupt cannot see it
  • Alexander Terentyev
    Alexander Terentyev April 24 2021 08: 07
    0
    Crimea is Russia, not a separate state. We have so many tanks that you can plow all of Europe with tracks in one pass.
  • Slavors Gart
    Slavors Gart April 24 2021 12: 35
    0
    Tanks, airplanes .., it's still more offensive ..., they usually defend themselves with slightly different weapons, but how do the Mongoloids know ...?
  • Popov I.P.
    Popov I.P. April 26 2021 14: 45
    0
    They are not yet in combat formation, only the tests are being completed, and already someone is arguing enough or not enough. In Crimea, the tanks are not very much needed. To protect the isthmus with Ukraine, there are not many of them, and in the fight against airborne or amphibious assault forces, they are also not very useful. Yes, and the Su-57 in the version of an attempt to cover up in the Crimea is the beating of babies, because already now the number of combat-ready aircraft and helicopters (not even counting 2 regiments of the Black Sea Fleet MA) in 3 regiments of the Crimean division of the Aerospace Forces of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation exceeds the combat strength of the Air Force of the Armed Forces ...