Military Review

Actions of American strategic bombers against Japan

171

This is the first publication in a series on Japan's air and missile defense system. Before embarking on a review of Japan's air defense system during World War II, the actions of the American aviation against objects located on the Japanese islands.


Since this topic is very extensive, in the first part we will get acquainted with the chronology and results of airstrikes on large Japanese cities. The second part will focus on the bombing of small cities in Japan, mine laying by American long-range bombers, the actions of American tactical and carrier-based aircraft and nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then the turn will come to consider the anti-aircraft potential of the Japanese armed forces of the period 1941-1945, the era of the Cold War, the post-Soviet period and the current state of the air defense and missile defense of Japan's self-defense forces.

Doolittle Raid


The Japanese top military-political leadership, planning a war with the United States, could hardly have assumed that two and a half years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Japanese cities, industrial enterprises and ports would be subjected to devastating raids by American long-range bombers.

The first airstrike on the Japanese Islands took place on April 18, 1942. He became American revenge for the attack on Pearl Harbor and demonstrated Japan's vulnerability to air attacks. The raid was led by US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Harold James Doolittle.

Sixteen B-25B Mitchell twin-engined bombers, taking off from the USS Hornet in the western Pacific, attacked targets in Tokyo, Yokohama, Yokosuka, Nagoya and Kobe. The crew of each bomber consisted of five people. Each aircraft carried four 225-kg (500-lb) bombs: three high-explosive fragmentation and one incendiary.


B-25V bombers on the deck of the Hornet aircraft carrier

All crews, except for one attacked by fighters, managed to carry out targeted bombing. Eight primary and five secondary targets were hit, but it was all easy to recover.

Actions of American strategic bombers against Japan

Fifteen planes reached the territory of China, and one landed on the territory of the USSR near Vladivostok. Three people who were part of the crews participating in the raids were killed, eight crew members were captured, the crew that landed on Soviet territory was interned.

Although the material damage from the Doolittle Raid was small, it was of great moral and political importance. After the publication of information about the raid of American bombers on Japan, the morale of the Americans increased greatly. The United States demonstrated a determination to fight and that Pearl Harbor and other Japanese victories did not break the country. In Japan itself, this raid was called inhuman, accusing the United States of bombing civilian targets.

Before the airstrike inflicted by bombers taking off from an aircraft carrier, the Japanese command considered the main potential threat to aviation deployed at airfields in China and the Soviet Far East.

Actions of American bombers in the northern direction


The Japanese, focusing on their own level of the aviation industry, science and technology, underestimated the ability of the Americans to create heavy bombers, very advanced by the standards of the early 40s, with a long range and flight altitude.

In July - September 1943, American bombers A-24 Banshee, B-24 Liberator and B-25 Mitchell of the 11th Air Army carried out several raids on the Japanese-occupied islands of Kiska, Shumshu and Paramushir.


B-24 404th Bomber Squadron

In addition to providing air support during the liberation of Kiska Island, which is part of the Aleutian archipelago, the main goal of the American command was to pull the air defense forces from the main direction. At the end of 1943, the number of Japanese fighters deployed in the Kuril Islands and Hokkaido reached 260 units.

To counter Japanese fighter aircraft in the northern direction, the American 11th Air Force was reinforced in early 1944 with fifty long-range P-38 Lightning fighters, and attacks from the north continued until June 1945.

Actions of American B-29 bombers from air bases in India and China


Simultaneously with the planning of operations to defeat the Japanese imperial fleet and the liberation of the territories occupied by Japanese troops, the American command decided to launch an "air offensive" using the new long-range bombers B-29 Superfortress. For this, within the framework of Operation Matterhorn in the southwestern part of China in the vicinity of Chengdu, by agreement with the government of Chiang Kai-shek, jump airfields were built, on which the aircraft of the 20th bomber command based in India relied.


B-29s of the 20th Bomber Command are bombing

On July 7, the Air Force Superfortresses attacked Sasebo, Kure, Omuru and Tobata. On August 10, Nagasaki and an oil refinery in Indonesia's Palembang, occupied by Japan, were bombed. On August 20, during a repeated raid on Yahatu from 61 bombers participating in the attack, Japanese fighters shot down and seriously damaged 12 cars. At the same time, Japanese propaganda reported that 100 American aircraft were destroyed. The ninth and final raid of the 20th Air Force bombers on Japan took place on January 6, 1945, when 28 B-29s again attacked Omura.

In parallel with the raids on the Japanese islands, the 20th command carried out a series of attacks on targets in Manchuria, China and Formosa, and also bombed targets in Southeast Asia. The last raid on Singapore took place on March 29. After which the bombers, based in India, were transferred to the Mariana Islands.

The only major success achieved during Operation Matterhorn was the destruction of the Omur aircraft factory. In the course of nine air raids, the Americans lost 129 bombers, of which about three dozen were shot down by the Japanese, the rest were killed in air accidents.


B-29 Superfortress drops high-explosive bombs. The photo shows that a strong wind leads to a large dispersion of bombs, which makes bombing from high altitudes ineffective.

Militarily, raids from India with a stopover on Chinese territory did not pay off. The material and technical costs turned out to be too high and the risk of flight accidents was high. To organize one combat sortie with an intermediate landing at a Chinese airfield, it was necessary to deliver bombs and fuels and lubricants there by six transport aircraft.

The bombing was greatly hampered by unfavorable weather conditions: cloudiness and strong winds. Affected by the lack of qualified flight personnel, in connection with which such important advantages of the B-29 as high speed and flight altitude were not used. But at the same time, the first operations of the "Superfortresses" against objects on the Japanese islands demonstrated that the air defense forces of the imperial army were not able to reliably cover their territory.

Actions of American B-29 bombers from air bases in the Mariana Islands


At the end of 1944, after the seizure of the Mariana Islands by the American Marines, they hastily erected runways, from which heavy B-29 bombers began to operate. Compared to the raids of bombers based in India, refueling and loaded with bombs at intermediate Chinese airfields, it was much easier and cheaper to organize the delivery of fuels and lubricants and aviation ammunition by sea.


B-29 is being prepared for a combat mission on the island of Saipan

If the raids of long-range bombers taking off in India and refueling at Chinese airfields were not very effective and, rather, were politically motivated, demonstrating Japan's vulnerability and the inability of Japanese air defense to prevent air raids, then after the start of raids from bases in the Mariana Islands, it became clear that that Japan's defeat in the war is inevitable.

Six airfields were built on the islands, from which the B-29s were able to attack targets in Japan and return without refueling. The first B-29 raid from the Mariana Islands took place on November 24, 1944. The target of the airstrike was an aircraft factory in Tokyo. The raid involved 111 bombers, of which 24 struck the factory, while the rest bombed port facilities and residential areas. In this raid, the American command took into account the experience gained during previous air raids. Crews were instructed not to drop altitude or slow down before bombing. This, of course, led to a high dispersion of bombs, but avoided large losses. The Japanese raised 125 fighters, but they were only able to shoot down one B-29.


The next raids, which took place on November 27 and December 3, turned out to be ineffective due to bad weather conditions. On December 13 and 18, the Mitsubishi plant in Nagoya was bombed. In January, factories were bombed in Tokyo and Nagoya. The January 19 raid was a success for the Allies, and the Kawasaki plant near Akashi was put out of action for several months. On February 4, the Americans used incendiary bombs for the first time, while they managed to damage the city of Kobe and its industrial enterprises. Since mid-February, aircraft factories have become the main target of bombing strikes, which was supposed to prevent the Japanese from replenishing losses in fighters.


B-29 bomber takes off from the airfield on the island of Saipan

Combat missions from the Mariana Islands were met with varying success. Losses in some raids reached 5%. Despite the fact that the Americans did not achieve all their goals, these operations had a significant impact on the course of hostilities in the Pacific theater of operations. The Japanese command was forced to invest significant resources in the air defense of the Japanese islands, diverting anti-aircraft guns and fighters from the defense of Iwo Jima.


B-29 Superfortress of the 29th Bomber Group on Guam

In connection with the desire to reduce losses, American bombers launched strikes from high altitudes. At the same time, thick clouds very often interfered with aimed bombing. In addition, a significant portion of Japan's military products were produced in small factories scattered among residential areas. In this regard, the American command issued a directive stating that the residential development of large Japanese cities is the same priority goal as the aviation, metallurgical and ammunition factories.

Major General Curtis Emerson LeMay, who led the strategic air operations against Japan, gave the order to switch to bombing at night, reducing the minimum bombing altitude to 1500 m.The main combat load of the B-29 in night attacks was compact incendiary bombs. In order to increase the carrying capacity of the bombers, it was decided to dismantle some of the defensive weapons and reduce the number of gunners on board. This decision was recognized as justified, since the Japanese had few night fighters, and the main threat was the barrage of anti-aircraft artillery fire.


B-29 of the 315th aviation wing with dismantled defensive weapons

The raid was led by special "tracker aircraft" with experienced crews, who were often deprived of defensive weapons in order to improve flight performance. These bombers were the first to strike with incendiary bombs, and other planes flew like moths into the fires that erupted in city areas. During air raids from airfields on the Mariana Islands, each B-29 took on board up to 6 tons of bombs.

The M69 incendiary bombs were most effective in bombing Japanese cities. This very simple and cheap aircraft munition was a piece of hexagonal steel pipe 510 mm long and 76 mm in diameter. The bombs were placed in cassettes. Depending on the type of cassettes, they contained from 14 to 60 bombs weighing 2,7 kg each. Depending on the version, they were equipped with termites or heavily thickened napalm, which at the time of the explosion was mixed with white phosphorus. At the head of the bomb there was a contact fuse, which initiated a charge of black powder. When the expelling charge was detonated, the burning fire mixture was scattered in compact pieces to a distance of up to 20 m.


M69 Incendiary Bomb Cassette

Typically, the B-29 took on board from 1440 to 1520 M69 incendiary bombs. After deploying the cassette at an altitude of about 700 m, the bombs were dispersed in the air and stabilized in flight with the head part down using a fabric strip.


M47A1 incendiary bomb

Also, for the bombing of Japan, M47A1 incendiary bombs weighing 45 kg were used. These bombs had a thin-walled body and were loaded with 38 kg of napalm. When the bomb collided with the surface, a charge of black powder weighing 450 g, placed next to a container containing white phosphorus, was detonated. After the explosion, phosphorus was mixed with burning napalm, which covered the surface within a radius of 30 m. There was a modification filled with white phosphorus (M47A2), but this bomb was used to a limited extent.

The heaviest incendiary bomb was the 500-pound M76 (227 kg). Outwardly, it differed little from high-explosive bombs, but had thinner walls of the hull and was filled with a mixture of oil, gasoline, magnesium powder and nitrate. The fire mixture was ignited with 4,4 kg of white phosphorus, which was activated after the detonation of 560 g of the tetrile charge. The fire caused by the M76 bomb was almost impossible to extinguish. The combustible mixture burned for 18–20 minutes at a temperature of up to 1600 ° C.

The first large-scale incendiary attack against Tokyo on the night of March 9-10 was the most devastating air raid of the entire war. The first bombers appeared over the city at 2 am. Within a few hours, 279 B-29s dropped 1665 tons of bombs.

Considering that most of the urban development consisted of houses built of bamboo, the massive use of incendiary bombs caused large-scale fires on an area of ​​41 km², for which the civil defense of the Japanese capital was completely unprepared. Capital buildings were also badly damaged; in the zone of continuous fires, only smoky walls remained.


Hot neighborhoods of Tokyo. The picture was taken from the B-29

The huge fire, which was visible from the air 200 km away, killed about 86 people. Over 000 people were injured, burned and severely injured in the respiratory tract. Over a million people were left homeless. There was also significant damage to the defense industry.


View of Tokyo after the bombing in 1945. The surviving houses are surrounded by the ruins and ashes of neighboring buildings that have burned down.

As a result of combat damage and flight accidents, the Americans lost 14 "Superfortresses", 42 more aircraft had holes, but managed to return. The main losses of the B-29, operating over Tokyo, suffered from defensive anti-aircraft fire. Taking into account the fact that the bombing was carried out from a relatively low altitude, small-caliber anti-aircraft guns turned out to be quite effective.

After American strategic bombers burned much of Tokyo, other Japanese cities were attacked by night. On March 11, 1945, an air raid was organized on the city of Nagoya. Due to unfavorable weather conditions and "smearing" of bombing, the damage was less than in Tokyo. In total, more than 5,3 km² of urban development was burnt out. The opposition from the Japanese air defense was weak, and all the aircraft participating in the raid returned to their bases. On the night of March 13-14, 274 "Super Fortresses" attacked Osaka and destroyed buildings on an area of ​​21 km², losing two aircraft. From March 16 to March 17, 331 B-29 bombed Kobe. At the same time, a firestorm destroyed half of the city (18 km²), and more than 8000 people were killed. The Americans lost three bombers. Nagoya was attacked again on the night of March 18-19, B-29 destroyed buildings on an area of ​​7,6 km². During this raid, Japanese air defense forces dealt critical damage to one Superfortress. All crew members of the bomber were rescued after he landed on the surface of the sea.

After this raid, there was a break in night raids, as the 21st Bomber Command ran out of incendiary bombs. The next major operation was an unsuccessful attack by high-explosive bombs on the Mitsubishi aircraft engine plant on the night of March 23-24. During this operation, 5 of the 251 aircraft participating in it were shot down.

The start of the next air campaign against Japanese cities was postponed. And the B-29 of the 21st Bomber Command was involved in the destruction of airfields in southern Japan. Thus, the activity of the Japanese aviation was suppressed during the battle for Okinawa. In late March - early April, airbases on the island of Kyushu were attacked. As a result of these operations, the number of sorties of Japanese fighters was reduced significantly, but it was not possible to prevent the rise of kamikaze aircraft into the air.

In the event that the primary targets were covered by dense clouds, high-explosive bombs were dropped on cities. In one of these raids, residential areas of Kagoshima were severely damaged. In total, within the framework of this operation, 2104 sorties were made against 17 airfields in the daytime. These raids cost 21st Command 24 B-29s.

During this period, night bombardments were also carried out. On April 1, several groups of B-29s, totaling 121 aircraft, carried out a night bombardment of the Nakajima engine plant in Tokyo. And on the night of April 3, there were three similar raids on engine factories in Shizuoka, Koizumi and Tachikawa. These raids did not bring much results, and subsequently General LeMay refused to conduct such operations.

Particular importance was attached to operations designed to keep the Japanese air defense forces in suspense and deplete. At the same time, small groups of B-29s attacked industrial enterprises in various parts of Japan. Since the Japanese could not correctly navigate the situation, the actions of the diversionary forces contributed to two successful large-scale bombings of aircraft factories in Tokyo and Nagoya.

The raid on Tokyo on the afternoon of April 7 was the first to be accompanied by Iwo Jima-based P-51D Mustang fighters from the 15th Fighter Air Group. On this sortie, 110 Superfortresses were escorted by 119 Mustangs. 125 Japanese aircraft rose to meet the Americans. The appearance of American escort fighters over Tokyo came as a shock to the pilots of the Japanese interceptors.


Fighters P-51D 45th Fighter Squadron, 15th Fighter Air Group

According to American data, in the air battle that unfolded over the Japanese capital, 71 Japanese fighters were shot down that day, another 44 were damaged. The Americans lost two Mustangs and seven Superfortresses.

On April 12, over 250 B-29s bombed three different aircraft factories. In the course of this operation, the 73rd Bomber Aviation Regiment, without suffering losses, destroyed about half of the production capacity of the Musashino aviation plant.

After the aircraft of the 21st Command were freed from participation in air support for the battle for Okinawa and managed to deal with large Japanese enterprises that produced fighters, the Superfortress once again proceeded to the methodical destruction of cities. Moreover, the raids with the large-scale use of incendiary bombs were mainly carried out in the daytime.

On the afternoon of 13 May, a group of 472 B-29s struck Nagoya and burned down 8,2 km² of houses. Japanese opposition turned out to be strong: 10 bombers were shot down, another 64 were damaged. The Americans said that they managed to shoot down 18 Japanese fighters, and another 30 were damaged.

After serious losses, the 21st command returned to night sorties. On the night of May 16-17, Nagoya was again attacked by 457 B-29s, and 10 km² of urban area was destroyed by fires. In the dark, the Japanese defenses were much weaker, and the losses amounted to three bombers. As a result of two raids on Nagoya: more than 3800 Japanese were killed and an estimated 470000 people were left homeless.

On the night of May 23-24 and 25, the 21st Bomber Command's Superfortresses once again launched large-scale bombing raids on Tokyo. The first raid involved 520 B-29s. They destroyed residential and office buildings in an area of ​​14 km² in southern Tokyo. 17 aircraft participating in this raid were lost and 69 damaged. The second attack involved 502 B-29s, which in the central part of the city destroyed buildings with a total area of ​​44 km², including the headquarters of several government key ministries and part of the imperial complex. Japanese fighters and anti-aircraft guns shot down 26 bombers, and another 100 were damaged.


Central Tokyo, damaged by fire

However, despite the relatively high losses in equipment and flight personnel, the 21st Bomber Command was able to complete the task. By the end of these raids, more than half of Tokyo's buildings had been destroyed, most of the population had fled, industrial operations were paralyzed, and the Japanese capital was temporarily removed from the priority list.

The last major bombing raid by 21st Command in May was an incendiary bomb attack on Yokohama. On May 29, 454 B-29s, accompanied by 101 P-51s, dropped hundreds of thousands of incendiary bombs on the city during daylight hours. After that, the business center of Yokohama ceased to exist. The fires destroyed buildings on an area of ​​18 km².

Approximately 150 Japanese fighters rose to meet the Americans. In the course of a fierce air battle, 5 B-29s were shot down and another 143 were damaged. In turn, the pilots of the P-51D, having lost three aircraft, announced 26 shot down enemy fighters and another thirty "probable" victories.

The 21st command coordinated well and prepared the bombing of Japanese cities, carried out in May 1945, and this affected the effectiveness of the actions. As a result of the attacks in May, buildings with a total area of ​​240 km², which accounted for 14% of the housing stock in Japan, were destroyed.

On the afternoon of June 1, 521 Superfortress accompanied by 148 Mustangs attacked Osaka. On the way to the target, American fighters were caught in thick clouds and 27 P-51Ds were killed in collisions. Nevertheless, 458 heavy bombers and 27 escort fighters reached the target. The losses of the Japanese on the ground exceeded 4000 people, 8,2 km² of buildings burned down. On June 5, 473 B-29s struck Kobe in the afternoon and destroyed buildings on an area of ​​11,3 km². Anti-aircraft artillery and fighters shot down 11 bombers.


Incendiary cassettes dropped on Kobe

On June 7, a group of 409 B-29s attacked Osaka again. During this attack, 5,7 km² of buildings were burned and the Americans suffered no casualties. On June 15, Osaka was bombed for the fourth time in a month. 444 B-29s seeded urban areas with "lighters", causing continuous fires over an area of ​​6,5 km².


B-29 Superfortress over Osaka

The attack on Osaka, carried out on June 15, completed the first phase of the air assault on Japanese cities.

In the May-June 1945 raids, bombers destroyed most of the country's six largest cities, killing more than 126 people and leaving millions homeless. The widespread destruction and the large number of casualties made many Japanese people realize that their country's military was no longer able to defend their home islands.

To be continued ...
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  1. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 24 2021 05: 24
    +16
    On September 22, 1937, the Imperial Japanese Air Force began bombing Nanjing. Most of the bombs fell on non-military targets. South Nanjing - the busiest and most populous - suffered the most. The most devastating bombing raids took place on September 25th. From 9:30 am to 16:30 pm, Japanese aircraft made a total of 95 sorties, dropping about 500 bombs. As a result of this raid on Nanjing, about 600 civilians were injured. The Xiaguang refugee camp, located in the vicinity of Nanjing near the Yangtze River, was also bombed, as a result of which more than 100 people were injured. In addition to bombing infrastructure such as power plants, waterworks and a radio station, the Japanese also dropped bombs on the central hospital, despite having a huge red cross painted on its roof.

    Who would have thought that in 7,5 years already Japanese cities will be demolished in squares.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan April 24 2021 05: 45
      +19
      Unfortunately, ordinary citizens pay with their property, life and health for the adventurism and aggressive policy of the top leadership. This applies fully to Japan.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 24 2021 05: 49
        +19
        So they, for the most part, rejoiced at the Korean slaves, for example, and considered the same Chinese as barbarians. In principle, it is a pity only for the Japanese children who died under the bombs - the rest received quite deservedly.
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 April 24 2021 09: 03
          +12
          Miyazaki has a very poignant cartoon about children and American bombing of Japanese cities: "The Tomb of the Fireflies" ...
          1. Dkuznecov
            Dkuznecov 1 June 2021 00: 39
            0
            Strong stuff.
        2. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter April 24 2021 11: 17
          +19
          Moreover, at that time Japan did not have even a third of modern scientific, economic and industrial power (adjusted for that time, Isessno) - the Japanese en masse flew away to live in the same States and South America. And yes, all non-Japanese are like the animal world for them. Even now, in comparison with them, the puppet-clan is a circle of multiculturalists.
          sorry only for the Japanese children who died under the bombs
          It was hardly worth waiting for them to grow up.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 24 2021 12: 48
            +9
            Logically, yes. In real life, the death of children, even the enemy's, is taken very hard.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter April 24 2021 12: 49
              +7
              Logically, yes. In real life
              Illegal actions always lead to a logical ending.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 24 2021 12: 58
                +5
                I agree. That is the whole tsimes, sho we are people. And we remain human hi
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter April 24 2021 13: 03
                  +12
                  For some reason, I remembered Agnia Barto's pretentious lines about a killer pilot in the sky over Beirut, who launched a rocket into a residential area, holding the steering wheel by rote sad(I think you know whose BBC) I wonder if the poetess would have used her right to a passport with a six-pointed star if she had lived longer? What do you think?
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar April 24 2021 14: 53
                    +14
                    In the early 90s, I probably would have used laughing
                    But I doubly feel sorry for the Lebanese children - both the Christian ones killed by Arafat's gangs and the Palestinian / Sunni children who died, incl. under the blows of the air force belonging to the army in which I had the honor of serving hi And I do not think that nothing good will grow out of Arab children. Moreover, I do not perceive the presence of nationality in a child at all.
                    This is not a pretentious show-off, so I really think.
                    But.
                    If children are destined to die in a war with my country, I would prefer that they die on the other side.
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter April 24 2021 15: 03
                      +12
                      If children are destined to die in a war with my country, I would prefer that they die on the other side.
                      Here I am about the same.
                      Have you seen children's cartoons of the Palestinian Authority, on the topic "how to become a martyr"? They seem to have been thoroughly rubbed. Sorry, these kids will make good (cowardly but effective) killers.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 24 2021 16: 11
                        +6
                        Yes, a bumblebee guerrilla who was soaked by the Zionists and a local Mickey Mouse fighter named Fanfour, in my laughing Funny cartoons, but they are made by adults raising children in hatred
                      2. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter April 24 2021 16: 19
                        +3
                        they are made by adults raising children in hate
                        Adults, of course. But it is impossible to tear children away from their influence, especially if it is precisely those very bloodthirsty evil Zionists who are trying to do it. It is unrealistic to create a vacuum around these children, and in their environment they will inevitably be picked up. As a result, maye sho may be full of zugzwang. I don’t accuse children and I don’t urge to kill, but ...
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 24 2021 16: 47
                        +6
                        Massive bombing of a place like Gaza, for example, with a high building density, can only be carried out in the event of serious casualties among the Israeli civilians. And then, I would not want to be the person giving this kind of order.
              2. Timofey Astakhov
                Timofey Astakhov 3 May 2021 20: 52
                0
                the pretentious lines of Agnia Barto about the killer pilot in the sky over Beirut,


                It was Seryozha Mikhalkov
      2. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki April 25 2021 18: 55
        +3
        ... children will grow up and become soldiers ... women will give birth to soldiers ... pitying OTHER women and children, you endanger your FUTURE .. and no one likes dirty work, but .. EVERYONE loves to USE the results of their labor ...
  2. bandabas
    bandabas April 24 2021 09: 10
    +1
    It's clear. Just those that others are like in an old joke - "and these people forbid me to pick my nose."
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 24 2021 06: 08
    +11
    Great article, just great! good
    It is a pleasure to read Sergei, everything is detailed, reliable and with a lot of photos.
    And as for the massive bombing of the squares, Albert correctly wrote below that the Japanese got what they had diligently earned earlier. It is a pity that there is no information about the fate of the captured American pilots, but I think it was unenviable, remembering what the crews of Japanese submarines and cruisers did with the prisoners.
    PS About the Doolittle Raid: Admiral Halsey, who commanded the squadron during this operation, was so worried that the raid did not receive his name, that later, at Samar Island, he abandoned his ships without cover, chasing the Japanese aircraft carriers and glory.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 24 2021 06: 45
      +8
      In Japanese culture, traditionally, a bad attitude towards surrendered wars is traditionally, so they rarely surrendered themselves and despised those who surrendered to them accordingly. The Americans were surprised at the unusually dense, for prisoners of war, cooperation of the few surrendered Banzai with their intelligence. It turned out that by voluntarily surrendering, they ceased to consider themselves Japanese)))
      1. Nazar
        Nazar April 24 2021 14: 40
        0
        Krasnodar - have you seen enough of their movies or what? In 1945, in two weeks of fighting, ours recruited more than a million Japanese prisoners - they ran to surrender at a run, and led by their officers. Not a single case of "sepukku" or "hara-kiri" has been recorded. In our city, whole blocks of two-story houses built by captive "samurai" still exist.
        Don't be so gullible about their myths. hi
        1. Bongo
          April 24 2021 14: 48
          +15
          Quote: Nazar
          In 1945, in two weeks of fighting, ours recruited more than a million Japanese prisoners - they ran to surrender at a run, and led by their officers.

          After Emperor Hirohito announced his surrender.
          Quote: Nazar
          Not a single case of "sepukku" or "hara-kiri" has been recorded.

          You're wrong.
          Quote: Nazar
          In our city, whole blocks of two-story houses built by captive "samurai" still exist.

          In the Far East, the captured Japanese have built a lot of things.
          Quote: Nazar
          Don't be so gullible about their myths.

          You shouldn't be too categorical either. hi
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 24 2021 15: 07
          +11
          They began to surrender en masse after Hirohito's order to surrender. hi
    2. Bongo
      April 24 2021 06: 58
      +13
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Great article, just great!

      Konstantin, thank you for your kind words! drinks
      Quote: Sea Cat
      It is a pity that there is no information about the fate of the captured American pilots, but I think it was unenviable, remembering what the crews of Japanese submarines and cruisers did with the prisoners.

      The treatment of captured American pilots in most cases was very cruel. Many of the crew members of the B-29 thrown out by parachute were executed by the Japanese. For example, 33 American airmen were killed in Fukuoka, including 15 beheaded shortly after the Japanese government's intention to surrender was announced on August 15. Of the 545 pilots shot down over Japan, 132 were executed and 29 were killed by civilians. Another 94 pilots died for other reasons, while in captivity, 52 people died in a prison in Tokyo during the B-29 raid on May 25-26. Six American pilots, shot down on May 5, were vivisected at Kyushu Imperial University.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 24 2021 07: 03
        +20
        Everything that I have read about their "exploits" with the prisoners, plus what I have read now, there is a clear realization that the Japanese fully deserve the American gift in the form of the atomic bomb.
        1. Bongo
          April 24 2021 07: 10
          +21
          Quote: Sea Cat
          the Japanese fully deserve the American gift of the atomic bomb.

          Certainly! yes But it should be understood that during the massive strikes on Japanese cities with incendiary bombs, population losses were greater than during nuclear bombings.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish April 24 2021 07: 12
            +11
            This is understandable, at least from the comparative amount of explosives dumped on the head of the population. Yes, one devil - not a pity.
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 24 2021 07: 17
            +6
            Sergey, was napalm also used on the Japanese for the first time when bombing cities?
            1. Bongo
              April 24 2021 07: 21
              +11
              In the Pacific theater of operations, napalm was first used in Burma. After that, in Japanese cities.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 24 2021 07: 22
                +4
                In Burma to the jungle / fortified areas?
                1. Bongo
                  April 24 2021 07: 39
                  +16
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  In Burma to the jungle / fortified areas?

                  In a number of cases, it was possible to break the resistance of the Japanese only after the use of napalm. At the same time, the strike modification of the Mustang, the A-36 Apache, showed itself very well.
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 24 2021 07: 20
          +14
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Everything that I have read about their "exploits" with the prisoners, plus what I have read now, there is a clear realization that the Japanese fully deserve the American gift in the form of the atomic bomb.

          Though here, on the site, I found like-minded people in this matter drinks In Israel, even the ultra-right militarists did not agree with me on this. laughing And in Russia - even more so, except for the wife's brother, who has studied modern Japanese culture)).
          1. Nazar
            Nazar April 24 2021 14: 48
            0
            Krasnodar - I would not mind if the Germans would have walked nuclear weapons then hi
            1. Bongo
              April 24 2021 14: 51
              +3
              Quote: Nazar
              Krasnodar - I would not mind if the Germans would have walked nuclear weapons then

              Remind you of the dates of Germany's surrender and the test of the first American nuclear explosive device?
              1. Nazar
                Nazar April 25 2021 03: 49
                0
                Bongo - I did not ask the question "why they did not bomb", I just expressed my attitude to the question - "ethical" or not was the use of nuclear weapons in that war.
                1. Toucan
                  Toucan April 25 2021 04: 56
                  +4
                  Forgive me for interfering, but how is the massive use of conventional bombs against residential areas in terms of "ethics" different from two atomic bombs?
                  1. Nazar
                    Nazar April 25 2021 07: 03
                    +2
                    Tucan - According to the results, almost nothing, the only thing is that there is no residual radiation hi
      2. Richard
        Richard April 24 2021 17: 18
        +15
        a photo A captured Japanese soldier demonstrates in court how he beheaded an American pilot in Tokyo, April 1946.

        a photo After the surrender of Japan and the end of World War II, the Japanese were tried on the island of Guam. Major Sueo Matoba (Pictured above), Captain Shizuo Yoshii and General Yoshio Tachibana were found guilty of killing captured American pilots and posthumous eating of their body parts. They were sentenced to death.
  • aslanismaili611
    aslanismaili611 April 24 2021 14: 53
    -8
    During the 44-day war, 44 civilians from the Armenian side were killed. Armenia accused us of inhuman barbarism and another genocide!
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich April 24 2021 06: 22
    +6
    the crew that landed on Soviet territory was interned.

    surprising, because the Washington Declaration of the United Nations was signed as early as January 1, 1942, i.e. 4 months before the raids. recourse

    a group of 409 B-29s attacked Osaka again. During this attack 5,7 km² of buildings were burned, and the Americans suffered no losses.


    taking into account the fact that the population density in the city is up to several thousand people per 1 km2, it sounds creepy with hundreds of burned km2 ..

    And after all, there is no one to blame the Japanese, only themselves ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 24 2021 07: 05
      +9
      And after all, there is no one to blame the Japanese, only themselves ...

      So this is the most important thing. request
      Hi Andrew! hi
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 24 2021 07: 29
        +4
        Quote: Sea Cat
        This is the most important thing.
        Hi Andrew!

        Hello, Konstantin! hi

        what is surprising is the adventurism of the Japanese - what did they count on, having unprotected bamboo cities and knowing, albeit approximately, the potential of the United States in the same aviation and industry in general? request
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 24 2021 07: 31
          +9
          ... the adventurism of the Japanese - what they hoped for,


          The samurai spirit, I guess. Did not help. request
        2. Kwas
          Kwas April 28 2021 14: 48
          +1
          As far as you can tell, they simply despised the "pampered Americans" too much. As it turned out, in vain. But they had such a fucking "Japanese-centric culture"! Nazism, in general, if you do not produce superfluous entities. And its natural consequences.
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona April 24 2021 07: 06
      +14
      They were interned in 1945, before that, everyone who landed was in the camp, though the level of a sanatorium. And then they made a massive organized escape on buses, accompanied by security officers
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 24 2021 07: 29
        +4
        Yes, I read about this story. smile
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 24 2021 08: 39
        +1
        Quote: BlackMokona
        They were interned in 1945, before that, everyone who landed was in the camp, though the level of a sanatorium. BUT

        in 1944, hundreds of American aircraft landed on owls. airfields, having taken off from Italy, used them for raids and flew back from them recourse
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 24 2021 08: 52
          +7
          Not against Japan - the key word is Japan.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 24 2021 10: 33
            -3
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Not against Japan - the key word is Japan.

            and there ...another America fought? ...
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 24 2021 12: 43
              +9
              Not. The USSR was not at war with Japan.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich April 25 2021 07: 26
                +2
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Not. With Japan, USSR was not at war.

                thank.. lol

                Those. at one end of the country, Americans were received, armed and served, and at the other end the same pilots... interned.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 25 2021 08: 32
                  +6
                  Quite right, tk. at one end of the war, the Americans were allies, and at the other end, the war was only American (British), but not Soviet.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich April 25 2021 12: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Quite right, but on the other the war was only American (British), but not Soviet.

                    so name the internees in 1944 g US pilots
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 25 2021 12: 56
                      +2
                      By name? ))
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 26 2021 07: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        By name? ))

                        as you like -prove your statement-at least 1944
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 26 2021 07: 16
                        0
                        https://nvo.ng.ru/spforces/2004-04-30/7_odissea.html

                        https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c0f5b4d137b3000a98906a5/1942-prikliucheniia-kapitana-iorka-i-ego-ekipaja-v-sssr-5e87300ce75b2d4c5c1bb396?utm_source=serp

                        https://russian7.ru/post/kak-sssr-prishlos-vo-vremya-vtoroy-miro/
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 26 2021 09: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        https://nvo.ng.ru/spforces/2004-04-30/7_odissea.html

                        https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c0f5b4d137b3000a98906a5/1942-prikliucheniia-kapitana-iorka-i-ego-ekipaja-v-sssr-5e87300ce75b2d4c5c1bb396?utm_source=serp

                        https://russian7.ru/post/kak-sssr-prishlos-vo-vremya-vtoroy-miro/

                        not a word about the internees in 1944.

                        And why recommend it all?
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 26 2021 11: 18
                        +1
                        There are about internees in 1942 and 1945 laughing Do you find about 1944? Which month of the year do you like best? laughing
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 26 2021 11: 21
                        -2
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        There are about internees in 1942 and 1945 laughing Do you find about 1944? Which month of the year do you like best? laughing

                        1 m -no .

                        2.find or do not write-tired empty chatter
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 26 2021 11: 40
                        +4
                        [On the second day after the end of World War II, May 11, 1945, two American bombers landed at the Nelidovo airfield in Kamchatka - the B-24 Liberator and the B-25 Mitchell. In both crews, there were 19 flight personnel. After some time, they were joined by five more crews of the US Army Air Force bombers (36 people) that had landed at the allies. At the end of July, the Soviet command transferred them to a camp near the village of Vrevskoye near Tashkent, and on August 24, all the pilots were sent to Tehran for subsequent delivery to their homeland.

                        https://nvo.ng.ru/spforces/2004-04-30/7_odissea.html

                        This is what is not there lol I gave you the link first. hi

                        B-29. On July 29, 1944, the first such "flying fortress" made an emergency landing on the territory of the USSR - at the Tsentralnaya-Uglovaya airfield. The crew, until he was detained, smashed the instrumentation

                        Source: How the USSR had to intern American pilots during World War II
                        © Russian Seven russian7.ru


                        lol
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 26 2021 13: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        https://nvo.ng.ru/spforces/2004-04-30/7_odissea.html

                        This is what is not there. The link I gave you first.

                        it not what is not there.

                        where "internment"mentioned in 1945, huh? Nowhere?
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        B-29. On July 29, 1944, the first such "flying fortress" made an emergency landing on the territory of the USSR - at the Tsentralnaya-Uglovaya airfield. The crew, until he was detained, smashed the instrumentation


                        lol where ..... internment? request
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 26 2021 15: 34
                        +3
                        On the second day after the end of the Great Patriotic War, May 11, 1945, two American bombers landed at the Nelidovo airfield in Kamchatka - the B-24 Liberator and the B-25 Mitchell. In both crews, there were 19 flight personnel. After some time, they were joined by five more crews of the US Army Air Force bombers (36 people) that had landed at the allies.
                        At the end of July, the Soviet command transferred them to a camp near the village of Vrevskoye near Tashkent

                        B-29. On July 29, 1944, the first such "flying fortress" made an emergency landing on the territory of the USSR - at the Tsentralnaya-Uglovaya airfield. The crew until they detained him smashed instrumentation
                        fellow
                    2. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic April 26 2021 13: 50
                      +2
                      Friendly advice, do not waste time (well, only if you do not put a social experiment on identifying the boundaries of obstinacy in individual representatives of the human race). )))
                    3. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 26 2021 15: 34
                      +2
                      Yes, I wonder if he will write yet laughing
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich April 27 2021 07: 08
                      -3
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Yes, I wonder if he will write yet

                      what didn't get it?

                      I will repeat the THIRD time: where "internment"mentioned in 1944, 1945?
                    5. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 27 2021 08: 48
                      0
                      Oh... laughing
                      Mom, where is Dad
                      That's such a fig
                      Summer
                      And other anecdotes are recalled
                      Nowhere, nowhere
                      It seemed to you yes
                    6. Olgovich
                      Olgovich April 27 2021 09: 26
                      -2
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Oh...

                      That's such a fig
                      Summer

                      belay no skates or fur coats presented
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Nowhere, nowhere
                      You it seemed

                      how is it? they seem to you. yes
                  2. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic April 27 2021 08: 55
                    0
                    1) Do you understand the meaning of internment?
                    2) Have you read the articles on the links of Krasnodar?
                    On the second day after the end of the Great Patriotic War, May 11, 1945, two American bombers landed at the Nelidovo airfield in Kamchatka - the B-24 Liberator and the B-25 Mitchell. In both crews, there were 19 flight personnel. After some time, they were joined by five more crews of the US Army Air Force bombers (36 people) that had landed at the allies. At the end of July, the Soviet command transferred them to a camp near the village of Vrevskoye near Tashkent, and on August 24, all the pilots were sent to Tehran for subsequent delivery to their homeland.
                    This was the last, fifth group internees in the USSR during the war, the crews of the US Navy Air Force bombers who took part in air raids on Japanese military bases.
                  3. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar April 27 2021 09: 57
                    0
                    - Daughter, what is the weather outside?
                    - Summer
                    - Well, what about summer, cold, snow
                    - Summer said
                    - The pond is frozen, ice, trees without leaves, snowdrifts ...
                    - This is such a fig summer am
                    laughing
              2. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic April 27 2021 08: 57
                +1
                Yes, I wonder if he will write yet

                And I warned you fellow
              3. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 27 2021 09: 57
                +1
                Warned right, I admit laughing
              4. Kwas
                Kwas April 28 2021 14: 56
                +1
                It is curious to note that many of his comments are quite sensible and intelligent, but sometimes go crazy. In those places where he really wants to write some nasty stuff about the Bolsheviks, communists, the USSR, etc.
              5. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 28 2021 16: 02
                +2
                He belongs to the category of people who believe things in which you want to believe laughing
              6. Kwas
                Kwas April 28 2021 16: 52
                +2
                Plus, disillusioned with the once holy ideals, after which he also believed in the opposite.
              7. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 28 2021 19: 20
                0
                I agree, especially since the collapse of the Union, he is the president in the republic of the former USSR
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ April 24 2021 10: 14
    +7
    in 1944, hundreds of American aircraft landed on owls. airfields, having taken off from Italy, used them for raids and flew back from them

    This is in the war with Germany, and the USSR had not yet entered the war with Japan.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 April 24 2021 13: 36
    +7
    ... the crew that landed on Soviet territory was interned.

    1942! A special operation was carried out to return the American pilots to their homeland. They were transferred to one of the republics of Central Asia and arranged for them to "escape with the help of a Soviet smuggler" to the territory of Iran under the control of the British army!
    Military Review
    American pilots from ... Penza!
    March 29 2016
    Author:
    Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
  • Richard
    Richard April 24 2021 16: 45
    +7
    The escape of the interneed crew of York from the USSR to Iran occurred, according to him, allegedly from Kushka. But York doesn't describe him. It’s hard to believe. Kushka is the southernmost settlement of the USSR (Turkmen SSR) on the border with Afghanistan. There was no need to cross Afghanistan with an absolutely unpredictable local population to the Iranian border. Through Kushka and Afghanistan with Iran, the Soviet Union simply did not have a stable transport connection.
    In August 1941, Iran was bloodlessly occupied by the USSR and Great Britain. The Lend-Lease routes were as follows: Tehran - Ashgabat, Tehran - Astara - Baku, Studebakers, loaded to capacity, went in a continuous stream to the USSR. 184 thousand vehicles were delivered along this route. Back, Soviet drivers were transported by airplanes. And so on until the end of the war. Most likely, it was in this way that the Yankee allies were sent to Iran through Ashgabat, Astara or Baku ...
  • andrewkor
    andrewkor April 24 2021 06: 25
    -3
    Modern Japanese, continue to love the Americans for their "democratic" bombing.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 24 2021 06: 46
      +15
      They don't love anyone but themselves. laughing
  • Shishkov
    Shishkov April 24 2021 06: 45
    +7
    Thanks for the interesting article! Request to the author, if possible, to answer the following questions: 1. How did the number of bombers used by the United States against Germany and Japan correlate in different periods of the war? 2. How did the Americans assess the effectiveness of air strikes?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 24 2021 06: 56
      +9
      It seems that since 1942, the Anglo-Saxons decided that Germany was the first - with the filing of the Britons, of course. Accordingly, the most massive superbomber of carpet bombing was the B-17 (about 13000). The B-29 (about 4 built) was used only against the Yap and was built specifically for this theater of operations.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine April 24 2021 14: 24
        +8
        Quote: Krasnodar
        the most massive superbomber of carpet bombing was the B-17 (about 13000)

        The B-17 is the most famous, but the most massive was the B-24, 18,5 thousand.
        Quote: Krasnodar
        was used only against the Yap and was built specifically for this theater.

        Not quite. This is a 40th order. Then the Americans greatly revised their view of the world. Influenced, above all, by the prospects of getting a united Europe by the Reich. Japan was taken much less seriously then.
        Quote: Krasnodar
        It seems that since 1942, the Anglo-Saxons have decided

        Europe fest is still a pre-war plan.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 24 2021 15: 06
          +1
          I emphasized about flying fortresses hi
          As for the rest - I will not argue, not having enough information for this.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine April 24 2021 16: 25
            0
            Quote: Krasnodar
            I emphasized about flying fortresses

            Again.
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Accordingly, the B-17 was the most massive superbomber of carpet bombing.

            The most widespread was the B-24 liberator, they were made 1.5 times more.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 24 2021 16: 48
              +2
              A B-17-B-29 level libertator superbomber?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine April 24 2021 17: 25
                +6
                Quote: Krasnodar
                A B-17-B-29 level libertator superbomber?

                Some strange question. The B-24 is the next strategist model, between the B-17 and B-29. Fortress 35th year, Liberator 39th, Superfortress 42nd.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 24 2021 17: 40
                  +4
                  The Liberator has a maximum bomb load with a combat radius of up to 1300 km - 2,3 tons.
                  B-17 has the same load with a radius of 3.2 thousand km
                  Different planes hi
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine April 24 2021 18: 46
                    +6
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    radius up to 1300 km - 2,3 tons.
                    B-17 has the same load with a radius of 3.2 thousand km

                    Your problem is that you are confusing the combat radius in real missions in the case of the Liberator (taking into account the ascent, collection, navigation) and the estimated one-way range for the Fortress. Boeings flew 800 miles (Long range missions) with 2 tons. On Very long range missions, 1200 miles / 1200 kg, as a rule, only B-24s flew. For 800 miles, they took 2300 kg.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 24 2021 20: 36
                      +1
                      I still have no problems - only B-17 dropped 650 195 tons of bombs on targets in Europe. By comparison, the B-24 Liberator dropped 451 tons, the rest of the US Air Force dropped 691 tons. fellow
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine April 24 2021 20: 59
                        +4
                        From this, let's say, it follows that the B-17 was used at shorter ends with a higher average load.
                        Do you want to dispute American aircraft statistics or what?
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 25 2021 08: 25
                        0
                        From this it follows that fewer B - 17s dropped a larger tonnage of bombs than more Liberators. laughing
                      3. Sergey Sfiedu
                        Sergey Sfiedu April 25 2021 19: 52
                        +2
                        The British joked that the huge Flying Fortress took as many bombs on sorties as their little Mosquito. By the way, the Britons disliked the "Fortress" and begged the Yankees "Liberators". The Liberator, as a more distant aircraft, was used for anti-submarine and other special missions.
                      4. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine April 25 2021 20: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                        the huge "Flying Fortress" takes on sorties as many bombs as their small "Mosquito"

                        F4U took almost the same number of bombs, Skyradider - almost twice as many. The combat stability of the "fortress" was purchased at a very high price in terms of weight.
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 25 2021 20: 20
                        0
                        Was it farther than the B-17?
                      6. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine April 25 2021 20: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Was it farther than the B-17?

                        According to the specification + 20% to Boeing. In fact, about + 10% due to weight gain.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Nothing but the correctness of my post, with which you argue

                        In your post, the 8th year model is named the main 35VA aircraft. This is not true.
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 25 2021 21: 24
                        0
                        Basic super bomber hi
                2. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine April 25 2021 20: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  fewer B - 17 dropped more bombs than more Liberators

                  Yes. What confuses you?
                3. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 25 2021 20: 21
                  0
                  Nothing but the correctness of my post, with which you argue hi
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 26 2021 10: 41
    +2
    Quote: Krasnodar
    It seems that since 1942, the Anglo-Saxons decided that Germany was the first - with the filing of the Britons, of course.

    Since March 1941 - after the American-British conference on the future US participation in the war (ABC-1). The conference agreed on the basic principles of the Allied strategy:
    The decisive theater of operations of the war is Europe and the Atlantic.
    The primary goal is the withdrawal of Italy from the war.
    Building up forces for a possible offensive against Germany and seizing positions from which to start this offensive.
    Continuous air offensive to destroy Axis military might.
    Should Japan enter a war against it, a defensive strategy should be followed.

    The pre-war American military plans explicitly state that the strategic plans are based on the decisions of ABC-1.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 26 2021 11: 19
      0
      Exactly
  • Bongo
    April 24 2021 07: 04
    +10
    Quote: Shishkov
    Thanks for the interesting article!

    Hello! Glad you liked it!
    Quote: Shishkov
    Request to the author, if possible, to answer the following questions: 1. How did the number of bombers used by the United States against Germany and Japan correlate in different periods of the war? 2. How did the Americans assess the effectiveness of air strikes?

    Different types of bombers were used against Germany and Japan, differing in the mass of the combat load, the size and the number of engines. In this regard, it is appropriate to compare the mass of dropped bombs. This information is available on the Internet, and I'm sure you can easily find it if you want.
    As for the assessment of effectiveness, after the airstrikes, control aerial photography of the bombed objects was always carried out.
  • Xlor
    Xlor April 24 2021 07: 03
    +4
    I would also like to know about the twin-engine bombers that bombed Japan (and not only it) from aircraft carriers. Thanks in advance
    1. Bongo
      April 24 2021 07: 18
      +12
      Quote: Xlor
      I would also like to know about the twin-engine bombers that bombed Japan (and not only it) from aircraft carriers. Thanks in advance

      Hello! The North American B-25 Mitchell cannot be described in a nutshell. It is necessary to write a separate series of articles about this car! hi
  • Timofey Charuta
    Timofey Charuta April 24 2021 09: 29
    +7
    Honestly, after watching films like "The Man behind the Sun" and documents about the monstrous atrocities of the Japs, a seditious thought comes - they received little.

    And snot and screams about the fact that civilians are not to blame - are to blame! All atrocities were committed in their name and with their tacit consent. Moreover, among the dead there were potential future soldiers who would have gone into the army to kill, rape and plunder further.

    The sad paradox is that, in fact, civilians were responsible for all the war crimes, and the true perpetrators, the sadists, escaped responsibility at the suggestion of the Americans. The Tokyo trial of the main war criminals, where several people were actually suspended - does not count, it is not enough!

    This is not an anti-Japanese post - I respect and love Japanese culture, their hard work and enviable corporate character. The Japanese know how to be different - they poked with Russian prisoners in the Russian-Japanese war. It's just that they are, they will order - they will be evil, if they order - they will become kind. As the authorities decide, the emperor knows better ...

    MOVIE HERE: https://w122.zona.plus/movies/chelovek-za-solntsem

  • faterdom
    faterdom April 24 2021 11: 50
    -11%
    The Americans, of course, surpassed the Japanese and in this war (the war of engines and resources) they would have won without our help. But not in the 45th year, for sure, but maybe they would also have spent the whole of the 46th on this, I can hardly imagine what they would do with the entrenched and entrenched Japanese of the Kwantung Army.
    But in Europe, the Americans, together with the British, having prepared all the resources, having waited and choosing the time of their landing operation, calculated everything carefully ... ran into the skillful Germans, and as a result - the cauldron that threatened them with destruction and Stalin, who began the operation for two weeks earlier than planned, at the request of the Allies.
    From here, it seems to me that a land clash with an experienced Japanese ground army would also upset the Americans ...
    1. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 April 24 2021 12: 17
      +13
      I have little idea what they would do with the entrenched and fortified Japanese of the Kwantung Army
      - would cut off from supplies and wait for surrender. As happened with a lot of the Pacific Islands.
      Having calculated everything carefully ... they ran into skillful Germans, and as a result - a cauldron that threatened them with destruction and Stalin, who began the operation two weeks earlier than planned, at the request of the Allies.
      - read at least something about the Ardennes operation. Or about what they did to the skilled Germans in the Falaise cauldron, for example. And don't write that. You are welcome. Well, it looks stupid.
      a land clash with an experienced Japanese ground army would have upset the Americans as well ...
      - would be wound on tracks without any problems. If the garrisons of many thousands in long-term fortifications were multiplied by zero in working order.
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 24 2021 14: 32
      +5
      Quote: faterdom
      what would they do with the entrenched and entrenched Japanese of the Kwantung Army.

      Nothing. They are not interesting to anyone.
      Quote: faterdom
      But not in the 45th year, for sure, but maybe they would also have spent the entire 46th year on this,

      They won back in '44, the events of '45 are purely political games. Japan has been looking for peace since at least spring.
      Quote: faterdom
      the cauldron that threatened them with destruction and Stalin, who began the operation two weeks earlier than planned, at the request of the Allies.

      Comrade Stalin was joking. Naturally, he would have had the opportunity - he would have added to the Allies on his own. Actually, he added it 5 years later.
      Quote: faterdom
      From here, it seems to me that a land clash with an experienced Japanese ground army would also upset the Americans ...

      Not upset. In airborne assault operations against a strengthened enemy, the Americans only in exceptional cases had 1: 1 losses. Mostly much better.

      On the other hand, it must be admitted that if the American fleet in 45 was a monstrous force and surpassed all other fleets combined, then Marshall's successes are much more modest, unfortunately. But it is understandable, the army has been an unloved child for many decades.
    3. Black lotos
      Black lotos April 24 2021 14: 37
      0
      Quote: faterdom
      The Americans, of course, surpassed the Japanese and in this war (the war of engines and resources) they would have won without our help

      why did they even touch them then ...
      it was the only power in the region that surpassed the Japanese. And immediately bring it down on yourself in order to proudly make her fight with herself is so samurai. If only it is more complicated.
      Moreover, in this theater of operations, Japan was generally alone ... and the United States had more than one ally in the region, then ... Australia, New Zealand, Canada ... the Britons were ...
      the impression is that the Japanese looked back who's the godfather --- and threw a sharpener in his eye .. Of course they fell .. but then they hit specifically.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 26 2021 11: 03
        +3
        Quote: Black Lotos
        why did they even touch them then ...

        Because there was no choice. By her pre-war actions, Japan gradually and steadily drove herself into a position, the only acceptable (for her) way out of which was a war with the Allies.
        Well, do not leave China - the valiant army officers will quickly shorten the decision that has made such a decision. smile
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 26 2021 10: 57
      +1
      Quote: faterdom
      But in Europe, the Americans, together with the British, having prepared all the resources, having waited and choosing the time of their landing operation, calculated everything carefully ... ran into the skillful Germans, and as a result - the cauldron that threatened them with destruction and Stalin, who began the operation for two weeks earlier than planned, at the request of the Allies.

      Actually, the operation was started for three days. later the planned dates - at the request of the front commanders, due to unfavorable weather conditions.
      "Premature offensive" is a political ploy of Comrade Stalin, an argument in the negotiations on the post-war division of Europe.
      Quote: faterdom
      From here, it seems to me that a land clash with an experienced Japanese ground army would also upset the Americans ...

      The experienced Japanese army remained in Southeast Asia or perished on the islands. And the IJA forces in the Metropolis were at least half of the newly formed and understaffed divisions.
  • bubalik
    bubalik April 24 2021 12: 18
    +6
    Sergey (Bongo)hi thanks for the interesting article good
    was of great moral and political importance.
    ,, as well as the bombing of Berlin by the USSR in August-September 1941.
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash April 24 2021 12: 37
    -4
    The bulk of the population of any country is a herd, to a greater or lesser extent, but a herd that follows the shepherds. This herd is being brainwashed through educational programs in schools and the media. The directions of the zombie are determined by the people in power, that small part of the nation that is the most entrepreneurial and proactive.
    Therefore, this example of the destruction of civilians (including children, the elderly, the sick - who, of course, were also there) seems to be an inhuman act. Large-scale inhuman, if you will, a crime. Whatever the Japanese were doing with the Chinese and the Americans.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona April 24 2021 13: 25
      +1
      Most of the army of any country is a herd, to a greater or lesser extent, but a herd that follows the shepherds. This herd is being brainwashed through educational programs in schools and the media. The directions of the zombie are determined by the people in power, that small part of the nation that is the most entrepreneurial and proactive.
      Therefore, this example of the destruction of soldiers (including children, the elderly, the sick - who, of course, were also there) seems to be an inhuman act. Large-scale inhuman, if you will, a crime. Whatever the Germans did with the Russians and the Europeans.
      1. sevtrash
        sevtrash April 24 2021 17: 28
        -4
        Quote: BlackMokona
        Most of...

        Do you have your own words and thoughts? Sadly))))
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine April 24 2021 14: 37
    0
    Greetings!

    I am very glad to see that a serious person has finally looked into this hot topic. This cycle, unlike captured guns, I will not miss)))
    1. Bongo
      April 24 2021 14: 43
      +6
      Good evening!
      Frankly speaking, I took on this topic forcibly, only so that it would be clear from whom the Japanese air defense forces were defending their islands.
  • Fat
    Fat April 24 2021 18: 10
    -3
    Wonderful! This is the first publication of a drop dead list of Japanese crimes ...
    Ku-ku bonbidili.
    Never, without American deliberate provocation related to the Japanese fuel embargo. Pearl Harbor would not be there.
    Doubt? Include math.
    I am an old soldier, lies are part of the life of politicians.
    The war has begun. The raid on the US fleet was successfully completed. Question.
    Why weren't the fuel stocks of the fleet destroyed?
    Is it because there was always a way for a peace treaty !?
    Roosevelt chose weapons and war.
    Campaign war and weapons no longer have power over the president
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona April 24 2021 22: 00
      -2
      Because then the United States is the main world oil producer for the whole world, well, they blew it up and what new ones will be built the next day
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 26 2021 11: 35
      +3
      Quote: Thick
      Never, without American deliberate provocation related to the Japanese fuel embargo. Pearl Harbor would not be there.

      Did the fuel embargo just happen? Well, there, FDR got up on the wrong foot - and decided "and I will declare a fuel embargo against poor, innocent Japan"? wink
      Could you remind me - from what year does China consider the beginning of World War II and why?
      Quote: Thick
      Why weren't the fuel stocks of the fleet destroyed?

      Firstly, this requires a second sortie. Well, the Japanese do not have TF.38 - their forces in one sortie were only enough for the guaranteed disabling of the base of the US Pacific Fleet.
      And the second sortie is a blow to the already awakened air defense Oahu. Despite the fact that the first flight cost Kido Butai 55 aircraft and 55 crew members irrevocably. Plus the second flight is landing at dusk and at night. That is, the IJN has a non-illusory chance of losing its main striking force for a while - just at the time of subsequent operations in which it should take part.
      Secondly, the fuel tank is pretty solid. Which, moreover, is in the embankment, which prevents the fuel from spreading. That is, to destroy the fuel stocks, direct hits into the tanks are needed.
      Thirdly, all this is useless - the fuel reserves in Pearl Harbor are equivalent to 3-4 days of production in the United States. Instead of destroyed tanks, you can put old tankers in the harbor - the Japanese did just that when they did not have enough tanks at the new bases. And in 1942 in Pearl Harbor, the underground fortified storage facility Red Hill Storage was commissioned, covering all the needs of the Pacific Fleet.
      1. Fat
        Fat April 27 2021 21: 07
        +1
        No, not just like that.
        Possibly about fuel storage at
        The Japanese could not know Hawaii.
        However, it was the fuel embargo that prompted the islands to launch an operation to protect their interests and create a defensive line based on their Japanese motivation. In the end, the Japanese found fuel, knocking out the allied forces from the Philippines.
        Yes, this war is suicidal from start to finish.
        But God forgive me, they had a chance. And in their pride, they almost completely realized it.
        December 41 is not quite 42.
        And before the Battle of Midway is generally dubious.
        1. Kwas
          Kwas April 28 2021 15: 15
          +1
          Quote: Thick
          But God forgive me, they had a chance. And in their pride, they almost completely realized it.
          December 41 is not quite 42.
          And before the Battle of Midway is generally dubious.

          One thing I can’t understand in any way is why none of them had the idea to plug the Panama Canal at the same time as Pearl Harbor?
          This alone would immediately give a decisive advantage.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine April 29 2021 01: 38
            -1
            Quote: Kwas
            to block the Panama Canal at the same time as Pearl Harbor?

            Because they didn’t really have enough strength on the PX (and could not have enough), and the Channel was a bunch of puddles?
            1. Kwas
              Kwas April 29 2021 14: 03
              0
              Well, there is a sabotage operation. A fake company, drives back and forth transports with scrap metal, cement, dynamite, and one fine day in the canal several hundred-meter reinforced concrete plugs. Then try to eliminate them from there!
      2. Fat
        Fat April 27 2021 21: 18
        +1
        When you marked the fuel tank with a solid piece, you were probably kidding !?
        The second flight could take place.
        The fleet could afford this, but fate intervened in the form of Admiral Nagumo.
        1. Kwas
          Kwas April 28 2021 15: 16
          0
          Quote: Thick
          The fleet could afford this

          Elite pilots are a terribly expensive and irreplaceable resource.
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 29 2021 01: 40
          -1
          Quote: Thick
          When you marked the fuel tank with a solid piece, you were probably kidding !?

          Not. To blow up a tank, you need a dive bomber. There are many reservoirs, few dive bombers. And nothing can be done with underground reservoirs.
      3. Fat
        Fat April 28 2021 02: 02
        0
        Alex, The data correspond to the officialdom. This is war! You believe?
    3. gsev
      gsev April 27 2021 01: 21
      0
      Quote: Thick
      Question.
      Why weren't the fuel stocks of the fleet destroyed?

      The Japanese were not sure that they would be able to carry out a third raid with impunity. Nobody knew where the American aircraft carriers were. Six months later, Japanese aviation more persistently and successfully smashed the coastal defenses of Fr. Midway. But suddenly, dive bombers from three US aircraft carriers sank 75% of the Japanese aircraft carriers operating in the operation, and then in the next raid finished off the last Japanese aircraft carrier (the last 25%). After this raid, Japan lost the war with the United States.
      1. Fat
        Fat April 27 2021 21: 33
        +2
        The third wave to the pearl harbor may have been discussed.
        Japan did not lose the war at Midway.
        And in the Philippines.
        And before the famous atoll, US intelligence played checkers with its own bureaucracy.
        It's fair to say.
        War in the Pacific. Honors to the US military.
        I am obliged to give the soldiers of America Canada, Australia, Britain, Holland, soldiers from the islands and from China.
        Due.
        They were doing their duty.
        It will be fair.
        But it's fair to say that the US directly instigated this attack.
      2. Fat
        Fat April 28 2021 01: 31
        0
        When oversimplifying, Eat Five-Layer Sandwiches.
        US Navy Lost at least 16 aircraft carriers. Having broken at least 4 x ...
        Just everything .... both the crews and pilots fought for their country. protecting her. washing down victory with coca cola ...
        1. gsev
          gsev April 28 2021 22: 10
          0
          Quote: Thick
          US Navy Lost at least 16 aircraft carriers. Having broken at least 4 x ...

          The United States lost mainly escort aircraft carriers, which the US industry churned out about one, or maybe two pieces a month. On aircraft carriers at Midway, the color of Japanese naval aviation was killed. And after their death, the Japanese aircraft carriers lost their combat capability. If before Midway the Japanese did not lose more ships than a destroyer, sinking in exchange for cruisers, aircraft carriers and battleships (except for the battle in the Coral Sea where aircraft carriers were exchanged), then after Midway the Japanese lost equipment by an order of magnitude more than the United States. It's like Stalingrad, after this battle the Germans did not take into the cauldrons and did not destroy the hundred-thousand-strong Soviet armies in them.
  • Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov April 24 2021 22: 30
    +1
    "73rd Bomber Aviation Regiment" - were there any regiments in the American Air Force?
    1. Fat
      Fat April 28 2021 02: 19
      0
      maybe when they were? but you better figure it out yourself. The Russian girl made one phrase out of hunters - cowards hiding behind a woman ... Thugs, angry and stubborn ... And these people made "zero" zero over the ocean ...
  • Petio
    Petio April 24 2021 23: 35
    +3
    Later, the Japanese population began to warn of the bombing with leaflets and the number of casualties decreased. And how hard it hit Soviet pilots when they often had to bomb their own cities, knowing that in addition to the Germans, civilians were also dying there.
  • faterdom
    faterdom April 25 2021 11: 25
    +1
    Quote: Black Lotos
    why did they even touch them then ...
    it was the only power in the region that surpassed the Japanese.

    Actually, the Americans did their best to provoke Japan's war against themselves. Those without losing face, and the economy could not dodge it.
  • faterdom
    faterdom April 25 2021 11: 29
    -5
    Quote: Ryazanets87
    - would cut off from supplies and wait for surrender. As happened with a lot of the Pacific Islands.

    The Japanese on the mainland had much more occupied territories than all the islands, together with the Japanese. And to cut them off from supplies by the American fleet, to put it mildly, is difficult ...
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    They won back in '44, the events of '45 are purely political games. Japan has been looking for peace since at least spring.

    That is, the Americans out of boredom, having already won, begged Stalin to enter the war with Japan?
    1. Bongo
      April 25 2021 11: 39
      +5
      Quote: faterdom
      The Japanese on the mainland had much more occupied territories than all the islands, together with the Japanese. And to cut them off from supplies by the American fleet, to put it mildly, is difficult.

      By March 1945, shipping in Japanese coastal waters was almost completely paralyzed. There was no way to transfer troops from China and Korea to the Japanese skeletons.
      Quote: faterdom
      That is, the Americans out of boredom, having already won, begged Stalin to enter the war with Japan?

      The Americans wanted to end the war as soon as possible and start dividing the world.
      We must pay tribute to Stalin, he chose the optimal time for the USSR to enter the war with Japan. By that time, the Imperial Army was greatly weakened, and the Japanese navy and aviation could no longer influence the course of hostilities. If the USSR had not declared war on Japan, the Americans would have defeated it without us, albeit at the cost of great sacrifices. They had all the conditions for this, whether someone liked it or not.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine April 25 2021 12: 23
        +4
        Quote: Bongo
        We must pay tribute to Stalin, he chose the optimal time for the USSR to enter the war with Japan.

        Uh-huh, day Nagasaki, Hiroshima 3 days earlier. And at the same time, Soviet historians are very fond of telling how the Americans arrived at everything ready, in November 42, even if even in June 44.
        albeit at the cost of great sacrifices.

        Victims? On the 9th it was only about Hirohito. Which remained so and so, the whole USSR almost survived.
      2. gsev
        gsev April 27 2021 01: 33
        +1
        Quote: Bongo
        By March 1945, shipping in Japanese coastal waters was almost completely paralyzed. There was no way to transfer troops from China and Korea to the Japanese skeletons.

        US submarines were able to break into the Sea of ​​Japan only in June 1945, having previously received the means of detecting Japanese anti-submarine mines. Prior to this, Japanese minefields also effectively protected shipping traffic between Korea and Japan from enemy submarines, as did the Germans in the Baltic before Finland's withdrawal from the war.
      3. Fat
        Fat April 28 2021 01: 35
        +2
        By that time, the Imperial army was greatly weakened, and the Japanese fleet and aviation could no longer influence the course of hostilities. If the USSR had not declared war on Japan, the Americans would have defeated it without us, albeit at the cost of great sacrifices.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. gsev
        gsev April 27 2021 01: 40
        0
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Even at the last moment, Nimitz rushed to plan a landing in Korea so that the Soviet power would not creep too far.

        It seems that Stalin also demanded that the United States, as an inapplicable condition, organize a landing in the south of Korea no later than a month or two after the USSR entered the war against Japan. In the event of tough resistance in Manchuria, the Japanese Red Army might not have had enough accumulated ammunition and what could have been brought in during the war on the Trans-Siberian railway for a prolonged war with Japan. Stalin seriously feared military failures in the war with Japan due to the limited possibilities of railway transportation to the Far East, even in 1945.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • faterdom
    faterdom April 25 2021 18: 07
    -1
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Everything is much worse there. Begged the State Department, he had his own agenda.

    Yeah, I really wanted to see the Kuriles, the whole of Sakhalin, and even Hokkaido under the Soviet flag. And also Korea, which we ceded half to them under the treaty, as well as West Berlin. A kind of "State Department is ours!"
    Having all this already in my pocket (like), I suddenly decided to share glory and territories with the USSR. This is so similar to them.
    I don’t know for whom you are holding the then American rulers, but maybe you are mistaken?
    One Nimitz is smart, the rest are drugged?
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 25 2021 19: 17
      +5
      Quote: faterdom
      Yeah, I really wanted to see the Kuriles, all of Sakhalin, and even Hokkaido under the Soviet flag.

      Yes. As for Hokkaido, Comrade. Stalin wrote to Truman in August that the liberation army should have been sent there out of respect, so to speak, for the old Bolsheviks. After the surrender, of course. Truman at that moment had already begun to slowly return to reality and simply answered "no". The question was closed.
      Quote: faterdom
      A kind of "State Department is ours!"

      Alas, yes. Hull, Stettinius and Byrnes were enemies of their country and great friends of the USSR. Most disgusting, they were unlikely to be spies. They served evil of their own free will.
      Quote: faterdom
      This is so similar to them.

      Yes. Americans systematically act in their foreign policy to their own detriment in the name of this or that crazy idea. This is their national feature.
      Quote: faterdom
      One Nimitz is smart, the rest are drugged?

      No, not alone. But the Roosevelt regime for 12 years rotted to such an extent that reasonable people were not heard. Even Truman, who seemed to be a realist, operated in Roosevelt's fairway in the decisive months of 45. When I realized what I had done, it was too late.
      Quote: faterdom
      Having all this already in my pocket (like), I suddenly decided to share glory and territories with the USSR.

      Yes, and this must be understood exactly. And the transfer of the USSR border from the Pskov-Dniester line to the Lubeck-Trieste line, and the surrender of China is the decision of the Americans. Yes, 45 years of Soviet power in Eastern Europe are also Americans. The USSR took what was given to him.
      To understand this attraction of indescribable generosity, one must take into account the world in which the State Department lived in 45. He lived in a world where the UN is not a booth of ghouls, but an international government, similar to the global EU. Under the leadership, naturally, of Roosevelt. They were ready to give anything wrong in order to lure the USSR into these structures. Yes, these are the same great ideas of Woodrow Wilson that led to the emergence of the USSR and ultimately WWII. Naturally, the second time it turned out even more beautifully.
      As for the global government, Comrade. Stalin just sent them to the ass in 48 and that's it.
      1. faterdom
        faterdom April 25 2021 22: 49
        -4
        All some kind of epic legend about the almighty Americans.
        They were not omnipotent then, were not in the "shrine of the 90s" and are not them now.
        And thank God!
        Because the kindness of your soul, which you attribute to them for some reason, Gorbachev's slackness or imprudence which is not and never was. A crocodile country with the brains of Einstein and Tesla in the service.
        From the situation of the Second World War, they squeezed out for themselves everything they could, and it made very sense for them to involve the USSR in the war with Japan.
        Otherwise, a different situation could arise: the United States is at war and suffers losses, while the USSR is being restored and strengthened in Europe (and there were "dubious" Greece, Italy, and even France with a strong influence of the Communists).
        Let me remind everyone who hesitates: Japan did not surrender after the establishment of a de facto blockade of the islands, not after the burning of Tokyo, not after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And after the defeat of the land army on the mainland.
        And if someone says that the Americans defeated there too, I consider further debate pointless, you can put plus signs and enjoy each other.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 26 2021 01: 20
          +4
          Quote: faterdom
          They were not omnipotent then, were not in the "shrine of the 90s" and are not them now.

          By a strange quirk of fate, in the great times, the United States was headed either by madmen (Wilson, Roosevelt) or by nonentities (Bush Sr., Clinton). It's hard to say if this is good or bad. Yes, this led to great misfortune for the whole world, but on the other hand, only one full-fledged ghoul (Lincoln) fell for 48 presidents. Rarely does a country boast such humanism of its leaders.
          Quote: faterdom
          Because the kindness of your soul, which you attribute to them for some reason

          I think I said "crazy ideas" and not "kindness." I am not the kind of person who would call cooperation with Stalin "kindness". Under whatever slogans you like.
          Quote: faterdom
          From the situation of the Second World War, they squeezed for themselves everything that they could as much as possible.

          Like most Russians, you see the creation of the "American Empire" as a blessing for Americans, not a disaster. Russians love empires and regard them as something valuable in their own right.
          Quote: faterdom
          Otherwise, a different situation could arise: the United States is at war and suffers losses,

          As if something could force Comrade. Stalin to fight when he did not want to do it. The Americans already had the experience of discussing such issues in the summer of 44 using the example of Poland and from 42 on the example of Japan.
          The real comrade Stalin attacked after the Bomb with the only task - not to be late.
          Quote: faterdom
          there were "dubious" Greece, Italy, and even France with a strong communist influence

          In Greece, the British have been fighting just with the Communists since 44, and as for Comrade. Togliatti and Comrade Torez, then absolutely nothing prevents you from hanging them. Franco solved similar problems quickly and efficiently. The policy of appeasement does not work, in the 45th year there were people who could tell about it in detail.
          Quote: faterdom
          Japan surrendered not after the establishment of a de facto blockade of the islands, not after the burning of Tokyo, not after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And after the defeat of the land army on the mainland.

          Japan surrendered after almost 4 years of war (including China - eight), despite the fact that all the main battles were lost in the 44th. For almost a year, the Japanese simply served their number, as the military managed to block the efforts of Emperor Hirohito and Prime Minister Suzuki to start negotiations. After the bomb, the party of national traitors conducted a blitzkrieg and overthrew the patriots.

          By the way, by this time the Red Army had not defeated anything; at the time of the adoption of the Potsdam Declaration, the Red Army had just crossed the mountains and was pulling up the rear. The success of the Manchurian campaign is mainly due to the fact that it was carried out after the surrender of the enemy.

          Actually, this is the most useful part of the whole story. The military leadership of the country is to blame for the victims of the Japanese civilians at the end of the 44th - 45th years, including the HiN. Not because she lost the war, but because she refused to admit it for at least a year. In Japan, this is generally understood quite well.
          Quote: faterdom
          And if someone says that the Americans defeated there too

          The actions of the Red Army in China had nothing to do with the situation in Japan at all. But they had a lot to do with the civil war in China and predetermined the seizure of this unfortunate country by the communists.
          1. gsev
            gsev April 27 2021 01: 59
            +1
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            But they had a lot to do with the civil war in China and predetermined the seizure of this unfortunate country by the communists.

            The coming to power of the Communists caused the transformation of the Kuomintang from a backward into a progressive party. It was the Trotskyist communist Nikolai Vladimirovich Elizarov who made Taiwan an effective and prosperous state (he is also the son of Chiang Kai Shi Jiang Ching-kuo). Some believe that the PRC developed most rapidly during the Cultural Revolution, when the PRC was able to create means of small mechanization in the countryside (mini-tractors and attachments for them). In the USSR, cultivators and mini tractors were not able to start mass production. Therefore, the reforms in the USSR and the PRC followed completely different paths. In the PRC, family contractors and farmers, in the USSR, agricultural holdings are the reincarnation of the landowner economy. Yes, and South Korea was able to overtake the DPRK in the economy when Park Chung Hee was in power there, who betrayed his communist views under the threat of torture and execution.
          2. gsev
            gsev April 29 2021 01: 42
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            By a strange quirk of fate, in the great times, either madmen were at the head of the United States (Wilson, Roosevelt)
            Roosevelt and Hitler came to power in their countries at the end of a severe crisis and depression. Roosevelt brought his country out of the crisis without abandoning civil rights or democracy, without major class, racial and ethnic clashes. He pursued a fairly balanced and thoughtful policy. Compare the United States with the countries of Europe, where after the crisis of the 30s, every second country had Nazi-like governments.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine April 29 2021 01: 51
              0
              Quote: gsev
              Roosevelt and Hitler came to power in their countries at the end of a severe crisis and depression.

              Yes. By the way, they came and went almost simultaneously (and not entirely of their own free will), only one was the main democrat in the world, and the second, for some reason, was a dictator.
              Quote: gsev
              Roosevelt brought his country out of the crisis

              Uh, no.
              Quote: gsev
              where after the crisis of the 30s, every second country had Nazi-like governments.

              What's the difference?
        2. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga April 26 2021 01: 29
          +3
          Quote: faterdom
          I think further debate is meaningless, you can put plus signs to each other and enjoy

          Well, they could not prove their point of view with facts, why should they be hysterical? request
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 26 2021 13: 09
        +5
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Americans systematically act in their foreign policy to their own detriment in the name of this or that crazy idea. This is their national feature.

        Oh yes ... just remember how the State Department and the presidential administration with their own hands cleared the way to power in Iran for one pro-American (as they believed) politician - Ayatollah Khomeini. laughing
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 26 2021 13: 44
          +5
          They are generally wonderful people.
          1. Supported by Khomenei. It is not even that pro-American, just democratic.
          2. Supported Pol Pot. Also a great democrat.
          3. Supported the Mujahideen. No, it wasn't Reagan who started it.
          4. They put the PRC in the UN welfare instead of Taiwan.
          5. They took away Sinai from Israel, but did not give Egypt a load of Gaza.
          6. We gave the Canal to Noriega.

          Etc. and so on

          All the same, an amazing person Carter, for whom history has given too little time. Had he spent 12 years as another great democrat, you see, and they would have saved the USSR, together with the Department of Internal Affairs.
          1. gsev
            gsev April 27 2021 02: 02
            -1
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Had he spent 12 years as another great democrat, you see, and they would have saved the USSR, together with the Department of Internal Affairs.

            It was precisely the absence of a military threat, as exemplified by the idealist Carter, that forced the Soviet party apparatus to transform into a bourgeois society. The Bandera-Pashinyanovsk-Navalny threat makes the modern Russian bourgeoisie to be more communist.
      3. Kwas
        Kwas April 28 2021 15: 30
        0
        Alas, yes. Hull, Stettinius and Byrnes were enemies of their country and great friends of the USSR. Most disgusting, they were unlikely to be spies. They served evil of their own free will.
        Why, I wonder, evil? It's just that the ideas of socialism were popular and were shared by very many thinking and honest people. Think of the Cambridge Five or the scientists from the Manhattan Project ...
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 29 2021 01: 44
          +2
          Quote: Kwas
          It's just that the ideas of socialism were popular and were shared by very many thinking and honest people. Think of the Cambridge Five or the scientists from the Manhattan Project ...

          "Thinking and honest people" either lied themselves, or allowed them to lie. Both raise questions about thoughtfulness and honesty.
          1. Kwas
            Kwas April 29 2021 14: 07
            0
            Socialism, as I understand it, in your opinion, is evil. What do you think is good then? American imperialism or perhaps Russian feudalism? I'm just curious.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine April 29 2021 21: 46
              +3
              Socialism? Socialism is a theoretical construction. I am dissatisfied with its implementation, for example, in kibbutzim (say, from the point of view of children's rights), but here to each his own. But the USSR - no, the USSR is a kibbutz of a completely different kind.

              Imperialism does not exist, feudolism is good for its time and bad for not.

              But in general, the rule is simple. The best social system is the one that ensures the longest and most prosperous life for the maximum share of people involved in it.
              1. Kwas
                Kwas April 30 2021 16: 13
                0
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                The best social system is the one that ensures the longest and most prosperous life for the maximum share of people involved in it.

                A good rule of thumb. I am ready to subscribe, perhaps with some reservations, namely, it is necessary to talk about ALL people involved in it. For example, taking into account, speaking about the United States, the many millions of people killed and maimed in Vietnam and other parts of the globe, where the Americans poked their, alright, let not the imperialist (let's not argue about the terms), but clearly neo-colonial nose. And still it is necessary to take into account the living and working conditions in various "raw materials appendages of the American economy" from Mexico to Colombia or Indonesia. And also the living conditions of various outcasts in the United States itself, which for some reason turn out to be many times more than in the USSR.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine April 30 2021 22: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: Kwas
                  For example, take into account, speaking about the United States, the many millions of people killed and maimed in Vietnam and other parts of the globe

                  As far as I remember, life in Vietnam never flowed with milk and honey, but the tryndets you are hinting at began exactly with the massive appearance of communists in this poor country.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  but clearly neo-colonial nose

                  The Americans destroyed the colonial system. The main crime of this people, perhaps, in the entire history of the country.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  living and working conditions in a variety of "commodity appendages of the American economy" from Mexico to Colombia or Indonesia

                  What's wrong there? Mexico, by the way, with the connivance of the same Roosevelt, took up socialism in a mild form back in the 30s. He still has a fever from time to time.
                  Quote: Kwas
                  And also the living conditions of various outcasts in the United States itself, which for some reason turn out to be many times more than in the USSR.

                  As if you know so much about the life of Soviet and American outcasts.
                  1. Kwas
                    Kwas 4 May 2021 16: 07
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    As far as I remember, life in Vietnam never flowed with milk and honey, but the tryndets you are hinting at began exactly with the massive appearance of communists in this poor country.

                    As far as I know, life nowhere on this planet flows with milk and honey, but the tryndets that I am hinting at began with the fact that the Vietnamese (far from only communists) wanted at first just autonomy from Paris, and the French unleashed a war that they financed Americans. After the French were kicked out, the Americans first organized a completely controlled "state of South Vietnam", in violation of all resolutions and agreements, and then organized the "Tonkin incident", under the pretext of which they subjected the country to carpet bombing, dumping more bombs than on Germany in WWII! Tell me you had the right? Only the right of the strong, they did not give a damn about everything else!
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Mexico, by the way, with the connivance of the same Roosevelt, took up socialism in a mild form back in the 30s. He still has a fever from time to time.

                    First, socialism is not a disease, and the United States is not a doctor. And not so much there, for example, the continuous war of mafia drug cartels. Take an interest in homicide statistics and compare with who is the largest drug user. In addition, Mexico is now generally economically serving the United States, for example, it produces beer, and what does it have in return? Is it by chance that people are fleeing from there en masse to the north, despite all the fences and mortal danger?
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    As if you know so much about the life of Soviet and American outcasts.

                    I suppose more than yours.
                  2. Kwas
                    Kwas 4 May 2021 16: 16
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    The Americans destroyed the colonial system. The main crime of this people, perhaps, in the entire history of the country.

                    You got it wrong. The system of colonies was destroyed by the USSR, and the Americans tried to subjugate as many of the liberated colonies as possible. Where economic, where military, where sabotage. The latter is best illustrated by the example of Latin America. However, you probably do not read this, perhaps even "Kings and Cabbage" passed you by. I'm not talking about things like Confessions of an Economic Killer.
  • faterdom
    faterdom April 26 2021 01: 48
    -3
    Quote: zyablik.olga
    Quote: faterdom
    I think further debate is meaningless, you can put plus signs to each other and enjoy

    Well, they could not prove their point of view with facts, why should they be hysterical? request

    What do you consider hysterical?
    I don’t seem to pass over to the person, the views - yes, we have opposite in fundamental things, such as, for example, the role of Stalin, and the USSR in the Second World War.
    I understand that there is nothing to be done about this, and I declare in advance that the empty debate of the blind with the deaf and dumb will end, because I see no point.
    Calmly and without hysteria.
    Well, I could not prove it to you with "facts", well, okay, not an eyewitness, after all, unlike some.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 26 2021 02: 22
      +3
      Quote: faterdom
      I don’t seem to pass over to the person, the views - yes, we have opposite in fundamental things, such as, for example, the role of Stalin, and the USSR in the Second World War.

      This is very funny to hear, given the fact that with such a revisionist view of WWII, the USSR remains the only winner.
      We have failed in the liberation of Europe, we have lost the war.

      And the role of Comrade. Stalin is clearly becoming the key. Cheat F.D. Roosevelt, albeit dying, but still one of the undoubtedly brilliant dictators of the twentieth century, is not an easy task.
  • faterdom
    faterdom April 26 2021 09: 58
    -3
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    This is very funny to hear, given the fact that with such a revisionist view of WWII, the USSR remains the only winner.

    Well, yes, you heard somewhere ... Are Russia and China revisionist countries?
    H. Clinton? Psaki? I didn't recognize it in makeup ...
  • ABC-schütze
    ABC-schütze April 26 2021 13: 25
    +1
    There is nothing to be surprised at ... Since not a single shell fell on the territory of the States during World War II, the rapid and successful build-up of their air power is quite natural. However, it is doubtful that even a "super-successful" implementation of the Douai Doctrine (even taking into account the use of several nuclear weapons by the United States ...), without a military seizure of Japanese territory directly, during ground battles, could lead to victory in Japan. Tokyo was forced to surrender by complete political and economic isolation, that is, the entry of the USSR into the war on the side of the allies and the "lightning-fast" defeat of the Red Army, the most powerful Japanese ground group, the Kwantung Army. There are different opinions about the fact that the population of Japan, under the blows of American aviation, "has lost faith in victory". In general, this factor became most noticeable just before the very surrender of Japan. And from the beginning of 1944 until March 1945, the determining factor was the growing food shortage due to the loss of ships by Japan. Why the actions of American "air strategists" have a rather distant relationship ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 26 2021 16: 23
      +4
      Quote: ABC-schütze
      And from the beginning of 1944 until March 1945, the determining factor was the growing food shortage due to the loss of ships by Japan. Why the actions of American "air strategists" have a rather distant relationship ...

      In fact, the B-29s were also noted here - in the spring of 313, the 1945 wing began mining coastal waters, practically paralyzing the coastal shipping of the Metropolis.
      In May 1945 alone, 85 ships with a total displacement of 213000 tons were blown up and sank by mines. In total, Japan lost 9,3% of all sunken Japanese ships on the mines exposed by bombers. Thus, the bombers were able to inflict losses on the Japanese fleet comparable to those. inflicted during the same period by American submarines.
      1. ABC-schütze
        ABC-schütze April 26 2021 21: 42
        -3
        I mentioned "March 1945" in the context of the dominant influence of the "bombing factor" on the morale of the population. That is, Japan began to incur real losses of ships carrying out sea transportation from the actions of American aviation only from March 1945. What prevented the Yankees from focusing on the destruction of Japanese ships, port infrastructure and overland transport communications already at the beginning of 1944? .. And not "level with the earth", a year and a half, Japanese cities? It seems like nothing ... Except for the obvious desire of the States to "punish" the Japanese for Pearl Harbor and their initial confusion and shock. This "pleasure" (moral satisfaction) cost the States 4 billion "green". Even at the "that" rate ... Ie. this is the total "cost" of costs for the United States, the actions of US strategic aviation in the Pacific theater (including the cost of aircraft production, and training of crews, etc.). The amount is awesome, and the direct MILITARY damage inflicted on the enemy is by no means "critical" for the latter. Transfer the US "air strategists" emphasis "from Japanese cities" to the sea, sea communications, logistics for loading and delivering raw materials, foodstuffs and materials to the Japanese metropolis, already at the beginning of 1944, the military and economic potential of Japan much earlier (months by 8 - 9, until August 1945) could be significantly weakened. And the very cost of "air operations" for the United States would be much lower. And the losses too. After all, the Japanese did not have significant air defense forces on sea transport communications ... By the way, what prevented Uncle Sam, in the middle of 1944, from using the potential of his strategic aviation, which was used for bombing Japanese cities, in the European theater ?. For example, on the very eve of the "longest day"? .. That is, the landing of amphibious forces in Normandy? to precede the landing, preliminary, say, daily or one and a half daily, continuous bombardment by "strategists" of German coastal positions and operational rear services? .. After all, they would have "mixed everything with the ground" there. And the loss of personnel, weapons and equipment during the landing, presumably, would be an order of magnitude lower. Moreover, without much loss of its aviation from the actions of Luftwaffe fighters. After all, the States and the Britons already had something to effectively cover and accompany their Air Force. And after that, the forces of the American strategic aviation could again be transferred to the Pacific theater. Wherever, FAST, the appropriate "regulations" were passed (the Yankees had all the potential for this) and again would act against the Japanese ...
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 27 2021 11: 18
          +4
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          What prevented the Yankees from focusing precisely on the destruction of Japanese ships, port infrastructure and land transport communications already at the beginning of 1944?

          It is likely that the first B-29 arrived in the Mariana Islands only in October 1944.
          Regular missions to minefields from the continent are unscientific fantasy. There was such a supply chain ... Rommel would approve. smile
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          And not to "level with the ground", a year and a half Japanese cities?

          The Air Force took care of itself first and foremost. And systematically knocked out the Japanese aircraft industry and its subcontractors. Look at the history of Japanese aircraft at the end of the war - it is written about almost all that mass production could not be launched due to the destruction of the aircraft plant, the destruction of the engine plant, the lack of components, the need to disperse production due to raids, etc.
          1. ABC-schütze
            ABC-schütze April 27 2021 13: 50
            0
            This is true, but ... The aforementioned "subcontractors" are, first of all (along the technological chain), suppliers of energy resources, raw materials and materials, in this case, for the Japanese aircraft industry. And also for component manufacturers. And raw materials and supplies went to Japan from the occupied territories by sea. And not only ... After all, Japan's "concessions" for oil production in Sakhalin, in fact, were liquidated only in 1944. With the signing by Japan of the agreement, the transfer of Japanese concessions into the ownership of the USSR. "And the Japanese Navy, by that time, could no longer ensure the transportation of energy resources by sea to the metropolis ...
        2. gsev
          gsev April 29 2021 01: 56
          0
          Quote: ABC-schütze
          After all, the Japanese did not have significant air defense forces on sea transport communications ... By the way, what prevented Uncle Sam, in the middle of 1944, from using the potential of his strategic aviation, which was used for bombing Japanese cities, in the European theater? ...

          How do you imagine the departure of strategic bombers a thousand kilometers away to search for and sink ships? If they fly in a loose formation, they will become prey for the attack of radar-guided fighters. Strategists are bad dive bombers. From a great height, they will not hit the maneuvering vessel. At low altitude, anti-aircraft weapons will damage the aircraft so that it does not return to base. I suppose that the bulk of the sunken ships of the Japanese transport fleet are on the conscience of the Chenolt pilots. In addition, it is cheaper and easier to destroy a steel foundry, oil refinery, shipyard or power plant than chasing sea vessels.
  • Zakonnik
    Zakonnik 3 May 2021 06: 01
    0
    Reading the article, I felt nothing but schadenfreude and moral satisfaction.