"The Russians themselves disclosed the information": the West announced the "first customer" of the NATO-caliber Msta-S howitzer

155-mm "Msta-S"

The West is closely monitoring the supply of military equipment from the Russian Federation abroad, jealous of the expansion of the list of users of Russian defense products.

New features of "Msta-S"

The Russians themselves disclosed information [about the new buyer], demonstrating to a foreign customer the Msta-S self-propelled howitzer, which was adapted to the NATO standard 155 mm gun caliber

- indicated in the Western press by the Polish author Rafal Surdacki (edition Defence24).

We are talking about a recent demonstration of the capabilities of the combat platform when working together with the Orlan-10E UAV. As officially stated, "an excellent result of the interaction was shown": when receiving the coordinates of the target from drone, the combat system automatically aimed the gun. According to the manufacturer, in this way it is possible to successfully fire at a distance of 40 km.

At the same time, it is not known for whom exactly this demonstration was organized. There is a mysterious mention of a certain "foreign contractor". At the same time, the caliber of 155 mm indicates that the recipients of the modernized "Msta-S" can be the countries of Africa, Southeast Asia and the Middle East, which still used Western artillery systems.

However, it should be noted that currently the only export customer of the Orlan-10E system is Myanmar, which also has in its arsenal 155-mm howitzers Nora B-52 [Serbia] and NORINCO SH-1 [China]

- explain in the Polish edition, indicating the alleged "first customer" howitzer "Msta-S" with a NATO caliber.

155-mm "Msta-S"

Consumer of Russian systems

According to a number of analysts in the West, Myanmar has found itself in the zone of influence of Moscow, which has increased especially after the recent military coup (which, in the opinion of Western analysts, did not support China). In this regard, the modernization of the army is carried out according to Russian "templates", accompanied by the purchase of equipment from the Russian Federation.

In recent years, Myanmar has acquired Mi-24 and Mi-35P attack helicopters, MiG-29 fighters, Yak-130 trainer aircraft, S-125 Pechora-2M anti-aircraft missile systems [from Belarus], BRDM-2MS armored personnel carriers [the latter were donated]. In addition, in January 2021, a contract was signed for the supply of Pantsir-1S air defense missile systems and the above-mentioned Orlan-10E reconnaissance systems.

An export version of the Msta-S, adapted for NATO standard ammunition, was presented to the public in 2020. The new modification is designed to significantly expand the list of potential buyers of the Russian howitzer. Currently, the 152-mm version is used by seven operators, not counting the Russian Federation. These include Azerbaijan (18 units), Belarus (12), Ethiopia (12), Georgia (1), Ukraine (40), Venezuela (57) and Morocco (unknown number).

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

when receiving the coordinates of the target from the drone, the combat system automatically guided the gun.

This is a very high level of positioning systems and self-propelled guns.

[Zaurbek]

This was also done on older Howitzers, only centrally, through a command vehicle ..... Coordinates do not matter where to get them. The advantages here are the range and the fact that some UAVs can still illuminate Krasnopoli.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zaurbek

This was also done on older Howitzers, only centrally

Are the self-propelled guns also self-guided? Let me not believe it.

[Zaurbek]

Self-propelled guns had even in shaggy times the transfer of data from the commander of the battery to 6 pieces of self-propelled guns was one command MTLB with equipment. Everything turned out to be. There was a central georeferencing, then it was somehow scattered onto the ACS and correction commands came to each ACS (taking into account its coordinates). on 152mm everything turned up.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zaurbek

There was a central topographic location

That's not news. The news is that bypassing all command links the combat system automatically guided the gun , without scattering from the command vehicle and possibly without any topographic location at all, on the same Glonass coordinates, one self-propelled gun, without the participation of the crew, was guided.

Quote: Zaurbek

on 152mm everything was turned

Gunner pens, right?

[Zaurbek]

No, the drives are all electric. Everything was invented for a long time, just progress goes along with the development of electronics. What could only be done earlier by the CM, now can be done by each SPG. And faster and faster. And the UAV allows you to get coordinates faster (without dancing with a compass, solving the inverse TG problem, etc.) and sees the gaps in real time and immediately corrects them. As a result, a pair of Howitzers can completely solve the problems of the battery ... such as suppression / destruction of a platoon entrenched in. Where it is necessary to plow the area.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zaurbek

No, the drives are all electric.

Those. want to say that Msta could be guided without a gunner at all?

[Zaurbek]

MSTA for sure ... I was talking about Acacia ...

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zaurbek

MSTA for sure ...... I was talking about Acacia ..

By the way, the modernized Msta-S can, yes. But Acacia is not.

[Zaurbek]

but each car receives coordinates and corrections. The drives are electric, can be manually entered

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zaurbek

The drives are electric, can be manually entered

Vot, but in the article we are talking about a separate machine directly working with the UAV, and automatically!

[Zaurbek]

It's just a matter of the unit in the howitzer .... if there is a drive, no problem. The main progress is in the fact that there are these UAVs for working with art batteries and greatly simplifies and makes safe the work of optical reconnaissance, which were on the front line and corrected the work of artillery.

[VO3A]

And now in order! In order for the guidance to be carried out from the UAV in real time in automatic mode, the information transmission channels must be coordinated! MSTA was made for the deceased ESU TZ "Constellation-M" system, which did not work on target designation from the then UAVs ... In order to work on signals from the UAV, in addition to transmitting the target coordinates, you need to identify the target by the picture on the monitor screen and give permission for shooting. Therefore, the control post of the UAV should be included in the calculation of the ACS. Those. for each ACS, a UAV control point must be assigned and have communication with it. This is not the case. The UAV control center is not even included in the battery management system. Want is not harmful ! Yes, it should be so, but it is not! Dream on. They blatantly lie to you or tell you about an experiment that does not work in everyday situations, there are no such means. NO in Syria, not in the LPNR, not in the army .... But why? Ask the General Staff of the Sun .... I think it is now clear why some call everything that happens idiocy ?? It should be yesterday ...

[Zaurbek]

The calculation of the UAV of the required dimension is now required to be part of the battery ... ... not even attached from the outside. And even mortars.

[VO3A]

Must now be part of the battery What is it like ?

[Zaurbek]

This is due to the fact that without this our artillery will lag behind modern challenges in terms of zeroing time and transferring fire to new targets ... and the novelty of the artillery system itself is not in the first place here.

[VO3A]

There is no such thing, we do not know how, there is no means, there is no possibility, they do not even have such a thought! They are all stupid! You and I can dream ...

[Zaurbek]

The saturation of small UAVs is quite high .... and they are all of Russian origin.

[VO3A]

You are normal! These UAVs fly for themselves and are collected in separate shelves! And they are used to control the results of combat use, and target designation in real time, at the cost of their lives, is carried out by the MTR fighters !!! Prokhorenko, for example, is one of the few ...

[Zaurbek]

Our army aviation is also part of the Aerospace Forces, but must obey the ground generals. But is it wrong ???

[VO3A]

Did you serve in the army? What are you talking about? It happens very often !!!
Some teapots are curious around ...

[Zaurbek]

It may be whatever you like ... But in some cases the efficiency is one ... in other cases the efficiency is different. Of course, in those conflicts that are now, this will not emerge. But in more or less serious maneuvers, everything will fall into place. Some dimensions of the UAV should be the "Eyes" of unit commanders, such as Boussol and Rangefinder ....... Some kind of Orion, for other people.

[VO3A]

Of course, in those conflicts that are now, this will not emerge.

Not only pops up, BUT ALREADY FLOATS for a long time and smells strongly.

[Sergey Kulikov_3]

And what should only be given to the UAV? We also need to add space squadrons to ACS and space squadrons, and the entire General Staff was on parcels :)
Only the possibility of interaction between the ACS and the UAV is being discussed, the commands will be given from the center.

[VO3A]

commands will be given from the center.

How many hours, days! Seryoga go ... dig the beds ...

[Sergey Kulikov_3]

If every gopher commanded a self-propelled gun, then this is no longer an army, but some kind of Makhnovism. It doesn't take much time to issue an order, but for self-righteousness you can get under a tribunal.

[VO3A]

The rain has passed, move on ... dig the beds!

[Real Pilot]

Making versions for foreign calibers is a wise decision. And it's not just about howitzers.

First, we see opportunities to enter markets where previously we could not sell products due to the mismatch of calibers. At the same time, NATO shells have already been purchased by foreign customers and are good in quality, as well as cartridges. That is, we do not find ourselves in a situation where low-quality ammunition will inconvenience us, and this is important. Post-Soviet factories in former socialist countries sometimes make poor quality ammunition, which in turn inflicts reputational losses on our weapons.

Secondly, we also do not interfere with being able to shoot with foreign calibers. In the event of hostilities, the seizure of ammunition depots will allow them to be used for their intended purpose by their own troops. The presence, for example, of interchangeable barrels, gives itself quite interesting tactical prospects.

[Evil 55]

Demand gives rise to offers .. That the weapon, that the machine has proved itself well enough during the period of military operation and combat use .. Why not offer it to countries oriented towards NAT and bite off your piece of pie at the howitzer systems. Only a plus to management and competent leadership. ...

[Murmur 55]

I agree that Kalash in NATO caliber is why the art system should not be released. Moreover, the export of weapons is not a bad income.

[Ros 56]

Of course that's right, let's give them all our weapons, what's the little thing there.
Just a small question: how will you then protect your money, your home, your children, parents? And the most important thing is not to stop this activity.

in NATO caliber there is a reason why the art system is not released.

and during a clash with this very NATO.

[Murmur 55]

Do you think that if God forbid a clash with NATO, get rid of the classic war? I don’t think that this is possible in the modern world, and don’t forget, we sold the S-300s to Greece long ago, and if I’m not mistaken they are to NATO, Turkey’s S-400s are also in the alliance, and the air defense system is a weapon class higher than the rifle and the art system, well in my opinion.

[Ros 56]

Both the S-300 and the S-400 with the E index have such a tiny feature, they will not work on our aviation, unlike cannons and tanks and other shooters.
And I see, you are a fan of brandishing a nuclear club. She has her turn, do not rush.

[Reserve buildbat]

"Mstu" can be sold, and the money will be useful for the release of "Coalition".

[Zaurbek]

MSTa is a weapon (barrel) of the 80s. In need, weapons with a longer range, such as the Coalition, are already being put into service.

[Reserve buildbat]

Exactly. But for some reason they buy "Mstu"

[T.A.V.]

Can you tell me more about it? It became very interesting. I have not found such information anywhere.

[Souchastnik]

I have not found such information anywhere.

Go to the Frunzenskaya embankment. At 8 Office, ask them, they will prompt.

[carstorm 11]

And why are they?) 155 mm we have ammunition for not as if not)

[Al_lexx]

Quote: Ros 56

Of course that's right, let's give them all our weapons, what's the little thing there.
Just a small question: how will you then protect your money, your home, your children, parents? And the most important thing is not to stop this activity.

Yuri. Why is this hysterical? A new generation of self-propelled guns (coalition sv) has come out, and therefore what is the point of hiding in a cam what was developed almost 25 years ago? The production is fine-tuned, the price / capabilities are very competitive. In addition, as the "msta" is replaced by the "coalition", it will be possible to sell old self-propelled guns, after the caprem .. Here, everything is reasonable and to the point.

[Ros 56]

Still it would not be reasonable when your lard, but according to your musals. The whole mind will instantly disappear.
I understand supplying Africa, but supplying NATO?

[Al_lexx]

Quote: Ros 56

I understand supplying Africa, but supplying NATO?

And what about NATO? NATO is not a reference spherical horse in a vacuum, nor is it a monolith under unambiguous one-man management. Moreover, I will say that even the owners of NATO (I mean the United States) are also not a monolithic state formation, under the control of an almighty emperor. Yes ui ... although now there are a lot of shitty guys from the 90s, in our guide, but there are definitely not left (well .. almost).
The main risks when transferring samples of our weapons into the hands of overseas reptilians are that some kind of know-how can leak. But in the design of MSTA-S, which is more than 25 years old, there has long been no know-how, at the level of blunt-iron. At the level of the latest silicon and mathematics, no one will give them anything (the same LMS based on a drone), and even if they sell something, they will have to redo most of the LMS to their standards. And those who do not need to remake electronics to NATO standards are, in fact, passive members of NATO, at the level of the holders of their bases and a certain conciliatory voice when it is necessary to rein in one of the really fat geese in this organization, while developing a certain collective position.
Therefore, I believe that our risks from such a transaction are minimal.

[Souchastnik]

but supplying NATO?

Most likely NATO will not buy. They need to sell theirs. Won the United States threw a tantrum about the S-400.

[svp67]

Quote: Murmur 55

why not release the art system.

Moreover, it was developed and tested back in the USSR)))

[The leader of the Redskins]

I can also note the author's optimism:
The new modification is designed to significantly expand the list of potential buyers of the Russian howitzer
Here the word substantiallyprobably superfluous. Distribute a certain amount for free - yes. And those who have crossed over to our side for a long time do not look at the NATO caliber.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

who switched to NATO caliber for a long time in our direction do not look.

Duc, you have no money. The decommissioned boats have fitted your mattresses, and okay.

[Zaurbek]

It should be added that the range and level of 155mm shells are much higher than our 152mm shells.

[Old tanker]

We developed "Mstu-S" in NATO caliber specifically for the Indian tender. The tests took place in April 2013. Unfortunately, the Indians refused it.
And now this development is in a more advanced version of our new customer.

[Bogalex]

Is it really "nashoa"? It seems like we are only talking about a demonstration.
The whole trouble with this development is that we do not produce 155-mm ammunition. From the word "absolutely". Of course, I understand that our industrialists would be ready to sharpen NATO shells even to the detriment of supplies to the domestic military ("we will not eat, but we will take them out" in our "best" traditions), but while the RF Armed Forces have a standard caliber of six inches, this is hardly feasible.
And now imagine - someone will buy a howitzer from us, and the shots for it will buy ... where? In the former Yugoslavia, China, Korea, Germany? So maybe where shots are sold, it is wiser to buy howitzers themselves? The choice of manufacturers of the "155 mm / 52 klb" standard is very wide today. And the performance characteristics of the CAO produced by them are quite comparable, and more likely even better, given the complete lack of experience of at least some noticeable mass production of 2S19M1-155.

[Old tanker]

The whole question is in the howitzer itself, its characteristics and capabilities. If you need exactly the ones that Msta gives out, then why take another. Just because Russia does not produce shells? Moreover, in this caliber it will be taken by those who have used 155mm before. This means that the shells are already there and the supplier too.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Murmur 55

I agree that Kalash in NATO caliber is why the art system should not be released. Moreover, the export of weapons is not a bad income.

That's right, everything is for "partners".))))) Not therefore, of course, the classic said about it, but for this case it is quite applicable "The capitalists themselves will sell us a rope on which we hang them."

[KCA]

Do you think that all NATO countries will queue up behind Mstoy-S to then use them against us? Or does the sale of self-propelled guns to the same Myanmar or India threaten our country?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: KCA

Do you think that all NATO countries will queue up behind Mstoy-S to then use them against us? Or does the sale of self-propelled guns to the same Myanmar or India threaten our country?

Do you remember how the USSR acted. He was not chasing momentary gain. The transfer of our equipment to NATO caliber threatens our country, remember whose air defense systems were in Georgia. Do you think that such precedents should not be feared?

[Andrey Korotkov]

It is possible that it is really in Myanmar, since 2000 we have been establishing military cooperation, there are MIGs, Sushki, Yaki, not for nothing Shoigu visited this not close country at the beginning of the year with his first visit.

[svp67]

Well, it's not for nothing that the generals came to power there, they understand a lot about armament

[rotmistr60]

the modernization of the army is carried out according to Russian "templates", accompanied by the purchase of equipment from the Russian Federation

This means that for Myanmar "Russian patterns" are more suitable than others. And what is the actual problem? Russia, like the countries belonging to the NATO bloc, sells weapons that are in demand in the world. At least we do not impose by force setting uncontested conditions, as the Americans do.

[Thrifty]

This news appeared on some sites a few days ago. It even indicated that they fired both conventional and active-reactive projectiles at the maximum range, and that the targets were hit exactly with the very first shots, at the rate of one shot per target. And, yes, Oplan 10e corrected the fire, and the results of the shooting.

[VO3A]

What sites? What ostentatious exercises did they shoot like that? How many months have you been preparing for this? I don’t believe ... On moving targets with illumination on newly detected targets in real time using UAVs that detected and illuminated targets? This has never happened during the conduct of hostilities, anywhere, not in Syria, not in the LPNR. How do they identify goals? Mechanism? Do we have network-centric systems, do we have new organizational structures? .. In all exercises, in all photos, ACS are fired from a trench with direct fire, or at studied ranges at long-known stationary targets with a week's preparation! Why then do they make shock UAVs and kamikaze drones out of desperation? Blatant lies, eyewash!

[VO3A]

This is about recent demonstration of capabilities combat platform in conjunction with the UAV "Orlan-10E". As it is officially stated, "excellent interaction results have been shown": upon receipt coordinates of the target from the drone, the combat system automatically guided the gun. According to the manufacturer, in this way can successfully fire at a distance of 40 km.

They forgot to add maybe, in theory, someday, then ...

[cniza]

At the same time, the caliber of 155 mm indicates that the recipients of the modernized "Msta-S" can be the countries of Africa, Southeast Asia and the Middle East, which still used Western artillery systems.

Fighting for Markets ...

[engineer74]

According to a number of analysts in the West, Myanmar has found itself in Moscow's zone of influence ..

Onalysts
They didn’t reach a simple thought: Russia is going to fight in America with what it will capture in Europe!

[Souchastnik]

Russia is going to fight in America by capturing in Europe!

A very good idea. I would be FOR it with both hands.
But the process of retraining for European technology may take longer.

[Kapany3]

Quote: VO3A

This is about recent demonstration of capabilities combat platform in conjunction with the UAV "Orlan-10E". As it is officially stated, "excellent interaction results have been shown": upon receipt coordinates of the target from the drone, the combat system automatically guided the gun. According to the manufacturer, in this way can successfully fire at a distance of 40 km.

They forgot to add maybe, in theory, someday, then ...

Go back to your homeland, you are tired ...

[VO3A]

Well, someone needs to build "dummies", otherwise they will become dull ....

[decimalegio]

Good product, correct gun caliber

[Pavel57]

Do we produce 155mm shells?

[Bogalex]

Quote: Old Tankman

Just because Russia does not produce shells?

Is this, in your opinion, an insignificant argument?
In reality, this is a really big problem, and for all the participants in the process. The supply of shells for shooting firing tables, the need to agree with the developer of the schemes for the passage of shells along the loading and placement paths in the ammunition rack, the need to purchase ammunition when accepting serial products, etc. - this is such a "headache" for both the manufacturer and the operator of the product that it is easier to spit and buy a weapon, for the country of manufacture of which NATO standards are native. Which, in fact, India did at one time.