Military Review

Russia is creating a system of "air mining" to combat drones

118

It is reported about a unique Russian development in terms of countering enemy drones. The development was announced by Alexander Zakharov, who is the chief designer of the ZALA Aero group of companies.


In an interview with the program "News of the Week" at the shopping center "Russia 1" Alexander Zakharov spoke about the world's first system of the so-called "air mining". This system is designed to combat UAVs. It allows you to hit such devices with loitering ammunition.

In particular, we are talking about the loitering ammunition (unmanned vehicles) "Lancet", which are capable, as Alexander Zakharov notes, "mine" the airspace for tens of hours.

Ammunition "Lancet" is capable of defeating UAVs moving at a speed of less than 300 km / h. This is due to the speed parameters of the ammunition itself when diving.

As it became known, this kind of "air mining" system is being tested. At the same time, balloons are still used as targets, moving, for obvious reasons, at extremely low speeds.

Loitering ammunition can be used to lift into the air both from the ground and from a marine carrier, including boats. According to Zakharov, at the moment it demonstrates 100% defeat of targets.

The "Lancet" complex itself was previously used in real operations against militants in Syria, as reported in open sources. It is capable of striking various kinds of targets within a radius of up to 40 thousand meters. The maximum take-off weight of such a device does not exceed 12 kg.

The Lancet has a television guidance channel. At the same time, the drone does not lose video contact with the operator serving it until it comes into direct contact with the target.
Photos used:
ZALA Aero website
118 comments
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee April 18 2021 13: 14
    +9

    In an interview with the Vesti Nedeli program
    Looked .... Impressive.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 18 2021 14: 05
      -1
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      Looked .... Impressive.

      Ammunition "Lancet" is capable of defeating UAVs moving at a speed of less than 300 km / h. This is due to the speed parameters of the ammunition itself when diving.


      Well, if the speed limits of the attacked target are dictated only by the characteristics of the "Lancet" in a dive, then it is not difficult to make ammunition planes when switching to a dive with variable sweep ...
      1. Shurik70
        Shurik70 April 18 2021 14: 10
        +7
        Quote: Insurgent
        it is not difficult to make the planes of the ammunition when switching to a dive with variable sweep

        I don’t think it will be worth a penny.
        Mining - it works in areas. That is, a very large number of drones are required. And even a slight increase in price will result in a large amount
        And the Lancet is still only a temporary substitute. No return is possible with him. Disposable.
        An air mine should patrol for days and be able to return
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 18 2021 14: 30
          +3
          Quote: Shurik70
          Mining - it works in areas. That is, a very large number of drones are required.

          For loitering ammunition covering a certain sector of the airspace, a large number of them is not needed.

          Unless, of course, we are not talking about "hordes", "swarms" of UAVs. But "Swarms", this is a slightly different song.
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 April 18 2021 14: 34
            0
            Quote: Insurgent
            we are not talking about "hordes"

            A single kamikaze now no one attacks protected objects until all the air defense is knocked out, this is a target, not a means of attack.
            So there should be more "air mines" than drones in the attacking swarm.
        2. Vitaly Petrov_3
          Vitaly Petrov_3 April 18 2021 14: 42
          +2
          The big barrage and drops the lancet ..
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 April 18 2021 14: 44
            0
            The lancet itself is not small.
            The medium will be large. Such only from airfields to launch.
        3. Intruder
          Intruder April 18 2021 15: 14
          +7
          An air mine should patrol for days and be able to return
          Duc, they have already invented, invented and even launched mass production, 80-75 years ago (and they began to operate it back in Finnish) in real combat conditions, over cities and critical industrial areas:




          What prevents now is to hang a radio fuse with an OFBCH, or even an electro-optical sensor to screw it with an FPV module and mine entire areas where it is necessary and there is a danger of using drones, plus a controlled minefield can be created in the sky!
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock April 18 2021 15: 41
            +3
            Quote: Intruder
            What's in the way now

            Not a universal thing.
            Will only protect peaceful properties.
            And, for example, there is no hidden concentration / dispersal area. Too big an unmasking factor.
          2. Hagen
            Hagen April 18 2021 19: 55
            +1
            Quote: Intruder
            What is stopping now, hanging a radio fuse with an OFBCH

            This is exactly how it works against UAVs (if you believe the commercial). Here are just the height of the flight of the product (again, judging by the Internet publications) in the region of 3500 meters. It will not be enough to intercept shock UAVs (Bayraktar TB2 climbs to 8200 m).
      2. venik
        venik April 18 2021 22: 16
        +2
        Quote: Insurgent
        Well, if the speed limits of the attacked target are dictated only by the characteristics of the "Lancet" in a dive, then it is not difficult to make ammunition planes when switching to a dive with variable sweep ...

        =========
        Eh, dear! It's not so much about planes, how many in motor! Do not fold the planes, but faster than the motor can accelerate - the device WILL NOT FLY!
        PS Physics cannot be fooled: planes can increase or decrease the drag coefficient, and driving force - this is a motor with a propeller! request
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx April 18 2021 14: 05
      +1
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      Looked .... Impressive.

      Could be so:
      [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 60QhHl6FGQQ]
    3. Hagen
      Hagen April 18 2021 19: 49
      0
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      Looked .... Impressive.

      But Bayraktar does not take ... By flight altitude.
  2. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 April 18 2021 13: 15
    +1
    I don’t remember that this topic was discussed on VO, this is something new. It’s even interesting how it works. And then only Israeli and American "miracle UAVs".
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 April 18 2021 13: 18
      +4
      By the way, the idea is interesting ... you can't run air defense systems everywhere, and everyone requires a trained crew ... but here I secretly deployed it and don't want to shoot it down ..
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 13: 26
        +3
        Quote: Barberry25
        and then I secretly unfolded it and didn't want to knock it down ..

        A swarm of antidrones is coming.
        1. mark1
          mark1 April 18 2021 14: 04
          +3
          The Anti-Roy War is coming.
        2. venik
          venik April 18 2021 22: 23
          +2
          Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
          A swarm of antidrones is coming.

          ========
          good drinks
          "For every cunning swarm of drones, there is always a swarm of left-handed anti-drones!" lol drinks
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 13: 28
        +6
        Quote: Barberry25
        and then secretly unfolded it and I don't want to knock it down

        But the question arises, how will the target drone first be detected and how will the Lancet be pointed at it later? I strongly doubt the capabilities of both a person and some kind of cheap GOS with television guidance when attacking such a target. This is not a balloon!
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 April 18 2021 13: 31
          0
          just like it was discovered in Syria after the SAA pulled up modern air defense systems, either using radars, or using optical means, or saw it with our eyes ... Bayraktars have low ESR, but not zero, and nobody canceled the optical stations. ...
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 13: 43
            +2
            Quote: Barberry25
            CAA pulled up modern air defense systems, either through radars, or through optical means, or with their eyes

            Only the "Lancet" complex is afraid of all this only the eyes of the operator. So this is some kind of profanation, without radar / OLS detection and guidance. In the style of Kiselev, with hand passes.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 April 18 2021 13: 51
              -2
              so there are two stages: 1) detection of an enemy UAV by various means, after which launch the drone from the nearest post .. as an option, you can make Lancet-3-air defense .. install there a warhead of the OFS with incendiary elements weighing 1,5 kg, and the rest to give an additional battery for a long flight .. In any case, the UAV will cost 4-5 million rubles, I think, and this is cheaper than a rocket .. and most importantly, it is cheaper to create a network of posts than to pull up the air defense system.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 00
                -2
                Quote: Barberry25
                In any case, the UAV will cost, I think, 4-5 million rubles, which is cheaper than a rocket ... and most importantly, it is cheaper to create a network of posts than to pull up an air defense system.
                Are you serious? To fence all this and then find out that the "Lancet" is absolutely useless against targets a little faster than even 300, but 200 km / h? Rakes are expensive.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 April 18 2021 14: 05
                  0
                  Are you an expert in the field of UAVs? And have you already counted everything?) And yes ... It was already said about UAVs that they are good scouts, good drummers, but if they start hunting, they cannot resist the word at all
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 17
                    -4
                    Quote: Barberry25
                    Are you an expert in the field of UAVs? And have you already calculated everything?

                    I am an expert in common sense. Once again, the "lancet" on a dive develops 300 km / h in order to intercept at least something similar in speed on a course different from the oncoming one, it needs to converge on the target with a very large lead, which is unrealistic with its video camera instead of the GOS. And even if you install some advanced seeker on the Lancet, which is expensive, it is completely useless against gliding bombs, CD or anything, with a speed higher than its speed.
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 April 18 2021 14: 19
                      +3
                      laughing it always touches ... when "common sense specialists" are not even reading specialists .. Where is the article mentioned "gliding bombs, CD"?
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 22
                        -2
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        it always touches ... when "common sense specialists" are not even reading specialists .. Where the article mentions "gliding bombs, KR"
                        You yourself are not good at reading. The article did not mention anywhere and
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        modern air defense systems, either through radars, or through optical means, or saw with our eyes ... Bayraktars have low ESR, but not zero, and optical stations
                      2. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 April 18 2021 14: 26
                        +3
                        laughing only a means of ensuring the defense of air defense is the norm ... that is. Various means of detection are used for destruction, but about "everything is bad, Can't shoot down tomahawks" - this is your complete fantasy not connected with reality from the word at all ... So just admit that you blurted out stupidity, otherwise your attempts to cover it up- look funny
                      3. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 42
                        -3
                        What, there are no more complaints about reading problems?

                        Quote: Barberry25
                        only a means of providing air defense defense is the norm

                        Do you seriously consider drones with a speed of less than 300 km / h to be the main threat to air defense systems? Oops. Well, let's say, okay, the main threat. laughing laughing Now explain how this lancet, with all due respect, laughing will "dive" at the same bayraktar that works from 5-6 km, before they launch missiles?
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        So just admit that you blurted out stupidity, otherwise your attempts to cover it up look ridiculous
                        You, together with Kiselyov, do not freeze it.
                      4. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 April 18 2021 14: 48
                        -1
                        what have you forgotten about cruise missiles? but what will prevent him from climbing to the same altitude + 1 m and working in a dive? All modern UAVs have limitations in height due to optics, and not because of the lack of power)
                      5. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 56
                        -4
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        what have you already forgotten about cruise missiles? or like "oh everything, it was not?" About "but how?"
                        Something is already some kind of idiocy. Either you do not like that you poked your nose into the impossibility of intercepting the CD, then you yourself remember about them ...

                        Quote: Barberry25
                        All modern UAVs have limitations in height due to optics, and not because of the lack of power
                        Yeah! And you wrote something like
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Are you a UAV specialist?
                        You chew something, don't respect yourself
                      6. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 April 18 2021 15: 01
                        -1
                        idiocy is with you .. For at first you screwed up about cruise missiles and bombs, and now you otmazyvaetsya .. Nobody in the article wrote that the task is to REPLACE, the task is to SUPPLEMENT existing air defense weapons to combat UAVs, to create an inexpensive and quickly deployable complex to combat the enemy's UAV ... but then the tales of the gray bull began ... you also write that "there is no bayonet", how he will fight the drones ... laughing
                      7. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 15: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        idiocy is with you .. For at first you screwed up about cruise missiles and bombs, and now you otmazyvaetsya .. Nobody in the article wrote that the task is to REPLACE, the task is to SUPPLEMENT existing air defense weapons to combat UAVs, to create an inexpensive and quickly deployable complex to combat the enemy's UAV ... but then the tales of the gray bull began .. you also write that "there is no bayonet", how he will fight the drones.

                        Some kind of diarrhea instead of argumentation, with the invention of something that is not in the article.
                      8. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 April 18 2021 15: 21
                        -1
                        tongue and where did I "invent"? This is just if you look about inventing, it's about you .. it's about "can't shoot down missiles with bombs" and "it will replace the air defense system" .. So it's not for you to write about "you invented" ..
                      9. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 15: 24
                        -1
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        tongue and where did I "invent"?
                        Where in the article is there anything about adding air defense? Where is the nonsense in the article about an inexpensive and rapidly deployable complex? Where is all this in the article?
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        No one in the article wrote that the task is to REPLACE, the task is to SUPPLEMENT existing air defense systems to combat the UAV ...
                        ... to create an inexpensive and quickly deployable anti-UAV system
                      10. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 April 18 2021 15: 31
                        -1
                        And where in the article about missiles and bombs? But why don't you call your words nonsense ... But to assume that to fit a truck / pickup to the points and deploy a catapult with a control point and after receiving information with coordinates and a vector, the command to launch is Is it difficult to understand? Or until you personally completely write everything down, it's hard to believe ... Although after the proposals to fight with the help of MANPADS Strela with drones ... I'm already silent ... more precisely, laughing as a yak horse
                      11. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 17: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Where's the article on missiles and bombs?
                        Well, you just "found" this nonsense in the article,
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Nobody in the article wrote that the task is to REPLACE,the task is to ADD existing air defense systems to combat UAVs,create an inexpensive and quickly deployable complex to combat UAVs

                        but about CD and gliding bombs, I wrote as an argument against the meaning of giving air defense functions for the Lancet.

                        Quote: Barberry25
                        after receiving information with coordinates and a vector, the start command is difficult to understand
                        You do not seem to understand the meaning of the word "complex", for these "coordinates and vectors" (what squalor) you need radar / OLS detection and interface with the "Lancet". This will be the complex, and why is it needed, if the targets for it are frankly poor low-altitude and low-speed UAVs, the Lancet is not capable of more in principle. But the same radar without interference will be destroyed by anything at a speed above 250 km / h, what's so difficult to understand?

                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Although after the proposals to fight with the Strela MANPADS with drones
                        What suggestions, no need to lie.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        do not pull up under the impact of the S-400/300
                        About Buki Torah Needles Dzhigita you do not know or something
                        You offered to fight drones with the S-300-400 and nothing.
            2. Intruder
              Intruder April 18 2021 15: 48
              +3
              Are you a UAV specialist?
              well, experts, this is ... strong and in a scientific way ... laughing And so, if we take personal experience, from 2014 to the present, then as a pilot of various drones (from copters to aircraft type) and as a person involved in the development of some of their nodes, I can say that what is stated in the article and in the comments below this article, it smells "not very", but it will pull the tender, with various necessary "things" in this process!
            3. Barberry25
              Barberry25 April 18 2021 18: 31
              0
              laughing The funniest thing here is that at one time they said similarly. that it is impossible to put missiles on diesel-electric submarines, and a missile with a range of 800 km cannot be installed on an 2-ton ship ... So do not say gop ahead of time ... otherwise you will have to tell tales about "I didn't write it and I was misunderstood" .. hi
            4. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U April 19 2021 03: 25
              +1
              Quote: Barberry25
              the funny thing is that at one time they said similarly. that it is impossible to put missiles on diesel-electric submarines
              This is how it is necessary to lie so stupidly! Anyone here, but not you, knows about the Harpoons and Exosets, so only such as you could write.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder April 18 2021 15: 18
      -1
      Now explain how this lancet, with all due respect, laughing will "dive" at the same bayraktar that works from 5-6 km, before they launch missiles?
      Easily yes , they will apply Chinese paint Gzhel patterns on the body of the "Lancet", sprinkle its X-shaped planes with scrap water and to intercept, immediately with an overload of 3-4 g, up to your transcendental ones: 5-6 km. !!! fellow
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 14: 25
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    it is completely useless against glide bombs, CR or anything faster than its speed.

    So he also has to fight gliding bombs, CD and anything? The article only talked about drones.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 28
      -3
      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
      So he also has to fight gliding bombs, CD and anything? The article only talked about drones.
      Oke, without means of detection "LANCET" is useless, with means of detection it can only work against targets no faster than 250 km / h. WHAT IS THE SENSE in attaching it to air defense?
    2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 14: 39
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      WHAT IS THE SENSE in attaching it to air defense?

      There are "Torahs", there are "Buki", there is a S-400. Everyone has a different purpose. Are you proposing to make one "Lancet" universal for everything?
    3. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 45
      -2
      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Are you proposing to make one "Lancet" universal for everything?
      You have obvious problems with logic, it is not I who propose to make the "Lancet" universal, it is you and Kiselev who are promoting low-speed loitering ammunition with no seeker as an air defense system.
    4. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 14: 59
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      as an air defense weapon

      Is it not an air defense system to counter UAVs and loitering ammunition?
    5. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 15: 08
      -1
      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Countering UAVs and loitering ammunition isn't it an air defense system?
      What can a blind drone with a cruising speed of 150 km / h and a flight height of up to 4,5 km, which it still has to climb, can intercept?
    6. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 15: 25
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What can a blind drone with a cruising speed of 150 km / h and a flight height of up to 4,5 km, which it still has to climb, can intercept?

      The height of the interception is not indicated in the note, but the speed of up to 300 km / h allows the Lancet to intercept targets, at a speed two times lower.
    7. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 16: 28
      0
      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
      but the speed is up to 300 km / h "Lancet"

      300 km / h is the dive speed! Those. an excess in height is required. And against the background of the earth, the operator still needs to see the target, aim ahead and hit! The installation of the GOS will dramatically increase the cost of the power supply and make all these tricks pointless.
    8. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 16: 35
      +1
      I do not quite understand what is the essence of your reasoning. That all these movements are useless, like another cut? Or is it that you, with your common sense, do not know something, so you prefer to fantasize?
    9. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 17: 15
      -1
      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
      That all these movements are useless, like another cut?

      Like that, but rather not a cut, but the maximum progress of the HALLS, suddenly in the manual you will find a body like Barberry, which can not be rubbed in.
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 16: 00
    0
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    blind drone

    What does that mean?
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 17: 19
    0
    Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
    blind drone

    What does that mean?
    Well, this is elementary, the "Lancet" does not have a GOS (according to open information), there is only tele-guidance by the operator for external target designation, judging by the plot. The Lancet itself is not a falcon, but rather a mole.
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 17: 45
    0
    I got it.
  • Intruder
    Intruder April 18 2021 15: 25
    +1
    Are you proposing to make one "Lancet" universal for everything?
    This is a platinum dream, its manufacturer ... laughing wink Don't destroy it ...
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 15: 29
    0
    Quote: Intruder
    This is a platinum dream, its manufacturer ... No need to destroy it ...

    You know, you and I cannot destroy anything at all, except for our own dwelling or a toilet, such as a "toilet". So it's better to dream about something else.
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 14: 41
    0
    well, for example, the destruction of the Turkish Bayraktar with the help of a 4 million Lancet at a cost of 750 million rubles + the possibility of rapid deployment of an additional air defense network ... all the same modern air defense systems we actually have several hundred complexes ... do not pull up the S-400/300 under attack, but For several years of production, such complexes can be purchased in the amount of several thousand pieces, and by providing parts with them, you can get an additional barrier against drones .. It is not difficult to train UAV calculations on simulators ..
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 51
    0
    Quote: Barberry25
    well, for example, the destruction of the Turkish Bayraktar with the help of 4 million Lancet at a price of 750 million rubles
    They have equal cruising speeds, while the B-ra is clearly superior in altitude, this is an elementary materiel.

    Quote: Barberry25
    the ability to quickly deploy an additional air defense network
    Yes, nonsense, air defense that can only be intercepted by a low-speed low-altitude UAV is not air defense, it is a profanation.

    Quote: Barberry25
    do not pull up under the impact of the S-400/300
    About Buki Torah Needle Dzhigita you do not know what? And, well, consider UAVs with a speed of up to 250 km / h as the main threat to air defense systems and to know only about the S-300-400 is the norm for you, it is already clear.
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 14: 56
    -1
    "with a clear superiority" .. the difference in the maximum height and working height .. And yes, as I said, Vladimir_2U is a "logic specialist", but not in reading .. or the moment about "quickly and secretly deploy a system to combat with drones "he missed, and success in the fight against Bayraktars with the help of Needles .. Forward .. you can right around Dzhigit, who is not in the army to arrange dances laughing
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 15: 02
    0
    Quote: Barberry25
    "with clear superiority" .. difference in maximum height and working height
    You do not know elementary things, and Internet search is clearly beyond your abilities.
    Quote: Barberry25
    because he missed the moment about "quickly and secretly deploy a system to combat drones"
    And where is this moment that just invented? Something like that fu.

    Quote: Barberry25
    success in the fight against Bayraktars with the help of Needles .. Forward .. you can right around Dzhigit
    Torah and Buki not mastered?
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 15: 07
    0
    laughing Well, voice the price of beeches and their missiles, as well as the speed of their deployment .. And yes .. but that does not protect Needles and Dzhigits? Or again, the awareness of the stupidity of your own comment? The task of air defense is to quickly saturate the field with means to ensure the required level of protection of troops, this is achieved by all available means ... including by countering drones with the help of antidrones ... but apparently all the leading powers are "stupid", but Vladimir is a specialist logically, he knows better than them ...
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 15: 18
    0
    Quote: Barberry25
    Well, announce the price of beeches and their missiles, as well as the speed of their deployment
    Only beech? And what about the shell, the torus, the Arrow of the SAM and the Arrow of the MANPADS.

    Quote: Barberry25
    The task in air defense is to quickly saturate the field with means in order to provide the required level of protection for troops, this is achieved by all available means.
    The most idiotic way to "saturate" air defense is to attract ineffective means to it.

    Quote: Barberry25
    Including due to countering drones with the help of antidrones .. but apparently all the leading powers are "stupid", but Vladimir, as a specialist in logic, knows better than them.
    Well, give examples of the use of loitering ammunition as anti-drone weapons? At least by the leading powers, at least some ...

    And I don't see the answer to this question
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Now explain how this lancet, with all due respect, laughing will "dive" at the same bayraktar that works from 5-6 km, before they launch missiles?
    Connoisseur of UAVs and loitering ammunition, answer, time has passed.
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 15: 26
    0
    laughing And then Ostap suffered .... Ie. A lancet with a declared height of 5 km is "well, he will not be able to fight Bayraktar", but the Strela air defense system with a 3,5 km height limitation apparently will get another 3 km from the pocket .. And the Strela MANPADS is apparently something in general .. with a height of 2,3 km ... So the bottom is broken, I look ... bully

    So your pearl about "you need to saturate the troops of the Strela MANPADS" .... this needs to be added to the analys)
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 16: 16
    0
    Quote: Barberry25
    here is the Arrow air defense system with 3,5 km height restrictions, apparently from the pocket, it will take another 3 km ...
    Who was there broadcasting about problems with reading? Where is Thor, Buk, Shell? I have written about them. And will the Lancet with the "declared" height be able to intercept the same Bayraktar, but at least at the same height? A specialist? Their speed is the same.

    Quote: Barberry25
    So your pearl about "you need to saturate the troops with Strela MANPADS"
    Your stupidity is already simply shameful, because I have no such words! You are already trying to present an outright and stupid lie as at least some kind of argument.

    I do not see an answer to this question
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Now explain how this lancet, with all due respect, laughing will "dive" at the same bayraktar that works from 5-6 km, before they launch missiles?


    Not for this
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Well, give examples of the use of loitering ammunition as anti-drone weapons? At least by the leading powers, at least some ...
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 16: 23
    0
    laughing
    Only beech? And what about the shell, the torus, the Arrow of the SAM and the Arrow of the MANPADS.

    Whoops ... whose words are these?

    About "and how to dive then" I already wrote, climb and attack from above .. unexpectedly, not to mention the fact that I see no problems with increasing the speed of drones, both by installing more powerful electric motors, and by increasing the number of revolutions ...
    Further, I wrote that work is underway and counteraction due to antidrones is one of the options ... all the more, getting a means of fighting for the price of 2 missiles for MANPADS is much better than driving expensive air defense systems into the zone of possible strike ... so here you have already completely lies, started write nonsense about "better Dzhigita, better SAM Arrow, better MANPADS Strela" .... in general, since you can't swear here, I won't describe your level of "logic" .. For there the bottom has been pierced more than once ... better write the rest about "he can't shoot down a tomahawk, so he's bad"
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 16: 38
    0
    Quote: Barberry25
    Whoops ... whose words are these?

    What's wrong with the words? BUK carapace tor mentioned? They reach Bayraktar without problems in height. But the Lancet will not be able to intercept targets faster than 250 km / h at any altitude.

    Quote: Barberry25
    About "and how to dive then" I already wrote, climb and attack from above
    Are you really a fool? The same Bar-ra has a working height of 5-6 km, the Lancet has a limit of 4,5 km, what kind of dive ?!
    Quote: Barberry25
    that I do not see any problems with increasing the speed of drones, both by installing more powerful electric motors, and by increasing the number of revolutions.
    P-c, isn't it a different type with a different price? Let me remind the connoisseur that the article is about consumable loitering ammunition with external guidance, and not about a powerful high-altitude and high-speed UAV, which you suddenly began to promote from something, unmanned dreamer.

    Quote: Barberry25
    in general, since you can't swear here, I will not describe your level of "logic"
    And you cry.
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 16: 43
    0
    laughing "4,5 km limit", and that is why the height of 5 km is indicated as the limit ... The article deals with the concept to which it is now proposed to use the Lancets, if you need to upgrade them, then this is not such a difficult question .. And I don’t need to cry .. I’ve already laughed) at your level of knowledge, which for the sake of "a larger number" ascribes complete game .. So sit down, you have a two for not knowing the subject ... And the conversation is over, you can continue to write nonsense that can to come to your head ... There is clearly something new will ripen, since there is a place for bombs, horsemen and air defense missile systems Strela and anti-aircraft missiles Strela lol
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 17: 13
    0
    Quote: Barberry25
    4,5 km limit ", and that is why an altitude of 5 km is indicated as a limit

    I see no confirmation of these words. And Bayraktar also works from heights of 5-6 km, how will the Lancet fight him?
    Quote: Barberry25
    The article deals with the concept to which it is now proposed to use the Lancets, if you need to modernize them, then this is not such a difficult question
    You are a real unmanned dreamer, in the article we are talking about a specific power supply unit, not a word about any modernization.

    Quote: Barberry25
    There is clearly something new will ripen, since there was a place for bombs, horsemen and air defense missile systems Strela and anti-aircraft missiles Strela
    You shamefully do not remember the Torahs, Buks and Shells.
  • Intruder
    Intruder April 18 2021 15: 37
    +1
    Yes, nonsense, air defense that can only be intercepted by a low-speed low-altitude UAV is not air defense, it is a profanation.
    You have forgotten that before the heap you need to have this UAV, energy reserves for maneuvers, as well as the speed in flight, at least 25-30 percent and higher, in comparison with the target, which is maneuvering, just like in the case of SD! ?
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 16: 17
    0
    Quote: Intruder
    You have forgotten that before the heap you need to have this UAV, energy reserves for maneuvers, as well as the speed in flight, at least 25-30 percent and higher, in comparison with the target, which is maneuvering, just like in the case of SD!
    Do you think it makes sense for Barberry to give such difficulties as an argument? I do not think.
  • Intruder
    Intruder April 18 2021 15: 31
    +1
    It is not difficult to train UAV calculations on simulators.
    A bold statement, for the sake of interest, try to land, with a crosswind in the region of 3-5 m / s, an ordinary household drone, on an area of ​​1x1 m, or fly a ring of metal wire (even tied with a bright orientation tape), 1,5 in diameter, 15 meters, installed at a height of 5 meters, (the roof of a XNUMX-storey building), using an FPV camera, out of line of sight of the target and this is also ideal conditions, you will learn a lot of interesting things about the air interception of a small air target, such as loitering ammunition! And this is all static, so exercises for understanding ... wink
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 18 2021 15: 34
    -1
    wink I don’t think it’s more difficult than training an air defense missile system operator for 5 years ..
  • Intruder
    Intruder April 18 2021 15: 23
    +1
    WHAT IS THE SENSE in attaching it to air defense?
    Not what, but how much - exactly, and so commonplace! The main thing is that if you declare and then offer a "kickback" to whoever needs it .., then you can get into the tender, and there the following areas, types: new means of anti-tank equipment and anti-aircraft defense, and then missile defense!
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 16: 22
    0
    Quote: Intruder
    PTO and PKO, and then missile defense

    PLO, electronic warfare and demining means!
    Well, I understand the main HALLS, suddenly someone like Barberry will run into the leadership, this is how much money can be mastered with such an ointment!
  • iouris
    iouris April 18 2021 13: 23
    +1
    And I would call it "Sickle" or "Kronos".
    1. knn54
      knn54 April 18 2021 13: 39
      0
      Sickle for ... drones. Sounds.
    2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 14: 26
      0
      Quote: iouris
      And I would call it "Sickle" or "Kronos".

      "Reaper".
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 13: 24
    0
    Here you go. And in September-October at the VO they said: there is no opposition against the UAV, Karabakh has proved, ground equipment is scrapped, what to do, dear mother ... And they tore hair in the most inaccessible places, some from despair, some from delight.
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik April 18 2021 13: 29
    0
    The main problem of ground-based air defense is the interception of low-flying targets. The same advanced S-400 complex will detect a target flying at an altitude of 50 meters at a distance of 24-26 km, and destroy it at a distance of 12-16 km.
    It is necessary to raise the antenna to a height of several kilometers. For example, on helicopter UAVs, power can be supplied from the ground via a cable. If you raise such a UAV to a height of 2 km, a target flying at an altitude of 50 meters can be detected at a range of about 200 km.

    Yes, and on aircraft MALE / HALE class.

    Means of destruction (rockets, kamikaze drones) also on helicopter UAVs or aircraft of the M (H) ALE class. The MQ-9 has knocked down training targets more than once.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 April 18 2021 13: 44
      -1
      There is no invincible in nature, only death is not conquerable!
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon April 18 2021 14: 01
      +2
      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
      It is necessary to raise the antenna to a height of several kilometers. For example, on helicopter UAVs

      A few kilometers is too much, especially by helicopter. Every 100 meters of altitude, the horizon expands by 25-30 km. To protect A / B Khmeimim, a balloon is used for this purpose. Cheap and effective.
      1. Reviews
        Reviews April 18 2021 14: 22
        0
        Quote: Piramidon
        Every 100 meters of altitude, the horizon expands by 25-30 km.

        You grabbed it ... Even with a 10 km range ~ 400 km.

        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon April 18 2021 15: 36
          0
          Quote: Avis
          It was you who grabbed

          From 100 meters the horizon is 37 km, but the higher, the dependence of the view on the altitude, of course, decreases. planet Earth is a sphere and its reverse side cannot be seen even from space.
          1. Reviews
            Reviews April 18 2021 17: 02
            0
            Quote: Piramidon
            Quote: Avis
            It was you who grabbed

            From 100 meters the horizon is 37 km

            And that's all. And every 100m of dialing adds much less than "25-30km of view". See the Delta column.
            planet Earth is a sphere and its reverse side cannot be seen even from space.

            Like, if she were a torus, then one could see the opposite .. :)
    3. Errr
      Errr April 18 2021 14: 03
      +2
      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
      It is necessary to raise the antenna to a height of several kilometers. For example, on helicopter UAVs, power can be supplied from the ground via a cable. If you raise such a UAV to an altitude of 2 km, a target flying at an altitude of 50 meters can be detected at a distance of about 200 km.
      What is the cross section of the core? A small cross-sectional area with low-voltage power supply is indispensable to ensure the operation of a powerful electric motor. Can you imagine the weight of 2 kilometers of this cable line? smile
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik April 18 2021 14: 22
        -1
        Well, yes, I agree, deprived. Zero extra in height. An antenna at an altitude of 300 meters, a target at an altitude of 50 m, will see at a distance of 100 km. This is more than enough.
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 24
        +1
        Quote: Herrr
        Can you imagine the weight of 2 kilometers of this cable line?

        There is information about tethered drones about a cable-rope up to 400 m. Which is also not bad, but not 2 km. )))
  • seregin-s1
    seregin-s1 April 18 2021 13: 35
    +3
    And if the target has not been found, or a decision has not been made to destroy, what to do with the Lancet?
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 April 18 2021 13: 52
      0
      well, no matter how not to start .. first detection, then identification, then the command to destroy .. ie. start-up and operation
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock April 18 2021 16: 01
        +2
        Quote: Barberry25
        well, no matter how not to start .. first detection, then identification, then the command to destroy .. ie. start-up and operation

        Well, as a matter of fact, the ideology of "mining" is precisely the preliminary placement of ammunition when it is not even known whether the target exists.
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 April 18 2021 16: 05
          -2
          there are 2 options: 1) UAVs are on duty in the air in turn, or they are on the ground until the moment of detection .. Detection and primary guidance is carried out from external means
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock April 18 2021 17: 09
            0
            Quote: Barberry25
            there are 2 options: 1) UAVs are on duty in the air in turn, or they are on the ground until the moment of detection .. Detection and primary guidance is carried out from external means

            And what's the catch to use a drone in the second option?
            Conventional anti-aircraft missiles are better at this.
            "Nails" from the Carapace will cost a lot cheaper.
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 April 18 2021 18: 27
              -1
              the price of missiles, the same MANPADS costs from 3 million + to effectively fight Drones, only MANPADS of the Verba level can be effective .. The same Needles, due to the fact that they are aimed only at Heat, it is not a fact that they can hover + flight altitude .. So there is a high probability that MANPADS corny it will not be enough .. the same Armenians had MANPADS, but they did not shoot down the Bayraktars .. About the nails, they are on tests + their range will be similar in a few km .. ie. if we know where the UAV will be, we will need to send an expensive complex there .. and then we can send a drone from the nearest station within a radius of 40 km to attack .. ideally, make the control system switchable .. so that a launched drone could be received from a neighboring station. . in general, a lot of what needs to be brought to mind, but the idea itself is interesting
    2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich April 18 2021 14: 13
      +1
      Quote: seregin-s1
      And if the target has not been found, or a decision has not been made to destroy, what to do with the Lancet?

      And if the target is not found at the loitering ammunition? Is he going back to base?
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon April 18 2021 14: 54
        +1
        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
        And if the target is not found at the loitering ammunition? Is he going back to base?

        Why not? You can equip them with parachutes.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 April 18 2021 13: 37
    +1
    a good topic "mining the sky" ... yes, yes, I understand, you can also clear it (EMP and other help) but, for example, against helicopters in the front line it will work well
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 13: 39
    +3
    I like this idea ... if only because it (more precisely, similar ...) occurred to me!
    1. The essence of the idea: placement in a certain airspace of a certain number of UAVs - "convertoplanes" (VTOL) ... Such UAVs take off vertically and occupy space in space according to "purchased tickets", hovering "like a helicopter"! Having detected an air target (enemy UAV), it switches to airplane flight mode and attacks the target!

    2. The next option: VTOL UAVs are located on the ground in a certain area and are controlled from a "centralized" ground point with an air defense radar ...
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 13: 52
      +1
      It looks good, until you start counting the money itself, the glider itself, the seeker with a very wide viewing angle and the fact that this thing is completely useless against more or less high-speed targets

      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      controlled from a "centralized" ground point with an air defense radar
      Without such a point, the whole idea is generally dubious.
    2. andreykolesov123
      andreykolesov123 April 18 2021 14: 46
      0
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Such UAVs take off vertically and take places in space according to the "purchased tickets", hovering "like a helicopter"! Having detected an air target (enemy UAV), it switches to airplane flight mode and attacks the target!

      it will turn out to be very expensive, 4 out of 5 of its engines work literally for a minute, and then they are destroyed along with the UAV. A regular rocket launcher is much cheaper and the result is the same. Or a catapult from the ground.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 15: 27
        0
        Quote: andreykolesov123
        it will turn out to be very expensive, 4 out of 5 of its engines work literally for a minute, and then they are destroyed along with the UAV

        Alas! For some reason, neither you. neither Vladimir did not take into account that this is a summary of the idea ... only part of the "project"! This idea has several options! Here you can use:, for example: a) not 4, but 2 electric engines ... b) electric engines for vertical take-off and jet engines for airplane mode; c). repeated use of a fighter UAV armed (!) with "small" missiles ... d). "hybrid" "launch" platform-vertical and "lancet", like warhead ... e). Ground location of drones in "ambush" mode (option 2) ... here a short take-off is not excluded ... There are also "variations" ...
  • Prax1
    Prax1 April 18 2021 13: 46
    0
    Pay attention to the quality of the picture. We have huge problems with optics and signal processing in general. Israel had such a picture in the early 90s ...
    [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 60QhHl6FGQQ]
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 April 18 2021 13: 53
      +1
      they put something cheaper, but this is one of the options for optics, you can set it more expensive and better, not to mention the fact that the quality was deliberately worsened due to "interference" for TV
  • Aleksey2027
    Aleksey2027 April 18 2021 13: 48
    +1
    Good design. The main thing is that the troops entered in sufficient quantities. Another would be to use with them any drone with VC detection systems, to detect low-flying targets and in bad weather conditions.
  • Emil Azeri
    Emil Azeri April 18 2021 14: 14
    0
    I don’t understand one thing. Suppose a TB2-type strike UAV or something similar flies itself at an altitude of 8-10 km, and this lancet circles at a maximum height of 3 km, and how is it going to destroy the strike UAV at such an altitude? Can it intercept missiles in the air?)
    How can the Lancet catch targets flying up to 300 km / h if it is flying 100 km / h itself?
    With the help of what he will detect, aim and accurately hit the target?
    Will the drones of the Orbiter 1KN type, which even fly much higher than the Lancet, be able to hit even the smallest kamikaze?
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 14: 25
      0
      Quote: Emil Azeri
      I don’t understand one thing. Let's say an attack UAV of the TB2 type or something similar flies itself at an altitude of 8-10 km, and this lancet circles at a maximum height of 3 km, and how is it going to destroy an attack UAV at such an altitude
      He will dive! laughing
    2. lopvlad
      lopvlad April 18 2021 14: 43
      -1
      Quote: Emil Azeri
      Let's say an attack UAV like TB2 or something like that flies itself at an altitude of 8-10 km


      to an acceptable question, because TB2 has a flight ceiling of 8.2 km, you can get a conditional answer that the "Lancet" will have a maximum flight ceiling from which it will dive much higher than the bayraktar flight.
  • Emil Azeri
    Emil Azeri April 18 2021 14: 32
    +1
    Quote: Prax1
    Pay attention to the quality of the picture. We have huge problems with optics and signal processing in general. Israel had such a picture in the early 90s ...
    [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 60QhHl6FGQQ]

    Commentator: "Crashes right on target."
    But in fact it crashes into the ground.

    1. Prax1
      Prax1 April 18 2021 14: 56
      -3
      Indeed, this is a mistake, and the video is full of such, very dubious development
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 19 2021 01: 41
      +1
      They lack a 4K camera and warheads of a cumulative high-explosive fragmentation 15-20 kilograms with Oktogen explosives, even with the shown miss, the explosion power will be sufficient to destroy an armored vehicle and fortified dugouts.
  • bk0010
    bk0010 April 18 2021 15: 49
    0
    It is a pity that it is disposable. Couldn't screw the shotgun and the chassis, or what?
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock April 18 2021 16: 16
    0
    In theory, the idea is absolutely sound.
    If the drone detects and destroys a ground target, why can't it find an air one. You just need to finish slightly.
    Unlike a ground-based air defense system, it can be "suspended" on an extended front and carried far ahead. And modern video cameras are much more advanced than any GOS of the last century.
    Again, reconnaissance / surveillance can work as well. And if a mass raid is detected by a flock, which he cannot cope with himself, he can call for help.
    But the Lancet is not the best option for this.
    Starting with disposability and ending with very mediocre flight characteristics.
    And the camera is so-so.
    But as a demonstrator of technology, as a starting point for further development, we can do it.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 16: 32
    0
    Should we not aim at Shakespeare, not our ... Williams in rocketry ... "the SIAM autonomous anti-aircraft missile"?
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock April 18 2021 17: 14
    0
    Incidentally,
    Here on VO just recently they wrote about an Iranian drone, which just knows how against the ground and against the air. And it seems to be even verified in the case.
    True, his performance characteristics are not at all like the Lancet.
    Well, the price too.
  • Dembel77
    Dembel77 April 18 2021 19: 21
    0
    Aerial mining using an uav is something new. And like everything new, it will be refined and developed. Good idea, well done developers.
  • 123456789
    123456789 April 19 2021 06: 24
    0
    The use of electromagnetic ammunition seems to be effective. Especially against swarms soldier
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 19 2021 10: 44
    0
    This topic is in the air. It rests on the same topic as the air defense system .. airspace control ..... and so:
    1. Transport worker from Afar
    2. A couple - three flights and firewood.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 April 19 2021 19: 45
    0
    Can not understand anything. What is the application concept? What is the effectiveness of the fight against enemy drones, if it requires MASS air "mining" -? Detection / counteraction should be in real time (1), the minimum required number of units (2), with a price / efficiency ratio significantly higher than that of attacking drones. (3), with the ability to work against both swarm and single targets (4). Now, if these were semi-autonomous "hunter drones", patrolling in the control sector for a long time, and even with the function of large-scale self-detonation against a swarm, that would be the case. While some kind of strange toy.
  • Skipper
    Skipper 27 May 2021 19: 19
    0
    Earthen pig ... he's aardvark ... ha ha ha ...