Military Review

Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will get Ukraine

101

Park of the Soviet period



March was marked by an unpleasant incident for the Ukrainian Air Force: the captain of the Armed Forces of Ukraine rammed on a Volkswagen car a towed front-line fighter MiG-29 from the 40th tactical brigade aviation Air Force. As a result, the tail of the winged machine was engulfed in flames. It is noteworthy that the incident was widely discussed in the West: in particular, the famous publication The Drive wrote about it. The plane, as experts noted then, in all likelihood, cannot be restored.


History the car, by the way, is quite indicative. It was built at the Moscow Aviation Production Association in 1990, in 1992 it went to Ukraine. The plane was based in Crimea: after 2014, the Russians returned it to the Ukrainian side. Subsequently, the aircraft was upgraded to the level of the MiG-29MU1 at the Lviv State Aviation Repair Plant.

You can dwell on this point in more detail. Ukroboronprom's statement on the transfer of one of the MiG-29MU1 to the military says:

"The modernization of the fighter has made it possible to increase the detection range of air targets, to increase the accuracy of the aircraft to a given point and to expand the possibilities for monitoring and recording the functional parameters of the technical condition of the aircraft, engines and a number of onboard systems."

According to data from open sources, the aircraft was equipped with a SN-3307 satellite navigation system receiver integrated into the avionics, replaced the N019-09 receiver unit of the N019 onboard radar and made a number of other improvements. Now it is possible to use medium-range air-to-air missiles R-27ER1 and R-27ET1. Products that are morally obsolete, but in all likelihood, Ukraine does not have anything more modern.

As in the case of the Su-27P1M and Su-27S1M, we are talking about a super-budget modernization, which is more like its imitation. Both the MiG-29MU1 and the Su-27-1M are all the same Soviet combat vehicles that refer us back to the 70s. At one time, Russia was engaged in such "modernization" in the case of the Su-27SM, but rather quickly realized the futility of the undertaking, directing resources to the purchase of new combat vehicles.


The Russian experience is not applicable to Ukraine. Firstly, the country does not have its own production of combat aircraft, except for military transport aviation. And secondly (and this is perhaps more important), there is no such income from energy trade. Statements of some Ukrainian journalists that “You can rearm the army by fighting corruption"Sound at least naive.

In a sense, the country is stumped by its politicians, because it makes no sense to use aircraft from the Cold War times in a war (even a local one), but money for modern weapon simply no.

Aviation is known to be not only very expensive, but also extremely time-sensitive. Even the famous American Hellfire can now be called "obsolete": that is why the United States is actively experimenting with the latest Israeli Spike NLOS missile system: recently, the AH-64E Apache hit a target at a distance of 32 km.

Will the West help?


Further modernization of the old Soviet technology is meaningless. Presumably, they understand this both in Ukraine and in the West. Moreover, the latter, paradoxically, are better aware of the dire situation. In March, the French edition of Intelligence Online wrote in the article “Race on between Rafale and FA-18 to replace Ukraine's MiG” that France is ready to offer Ukraine Dassault Rafale fighters. Allegedly, this will generally be the main topic of the agenda of the planned visit of French leader Emanuel Macron to Ukraine in the first half of 2021.

The bmpd blog quotes the following excerpt from Intelligence Online:

“The French President believes in Rafale's chances of winning in this former stronghold of Russian industry. Paris has an advantage: its commercial system already exists to support such a contract. "


If you believe the information provided, the French government is ready to provide government guarantees for a loan in the amount of 85% of the contract price. Funds in the amount of one and a half billion euros are allegedly already reserved.

The first batch may include 6-12 vehicles with their delivery by the middle of the decade. It is noteworthy that these figures coincide with the plans of Ukraine itself for the initial rearmament of its Air Force. In total, according to the plan approved by the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine in 2020, by 2030 at least two Ukrainian aviation brigades of tactical aviation should be completely re-equipped with new winged aircraft.

By 2035, Ukrainian aviation should have:

- At least 4 brigades of tactical aviation, armed with a modern unified multi-role fighter of the 4 ++ generation;
- At least 4 brigades (regiments) of unmanned reconnaissance and strike aircraft;
- a brigade of transport and special aviation;
- training aviation brigade.

To simplify as much as possible, then Ukraine wants to have 70-100 modern multipurpose vehicles instead of the "zoo" of MiG-29, Su-27, Su-24 and Su-25, including their modernized versions.

They want to allocate 200 billion hryvnias (553 billion rubles or 7,4 billion dollars) to re-equip tactical aviation. To understand the "seriousness" of the situation, suffice it to say that the total military expenditures for 2021 were planned at about 267 billion hryvnia. This amounts to almost 6% of GDP, which is definitely a lot.

In general, even with the naked eye, one can see the gap between plans and the real state of affairs. For even greater clarity, you can specify the price of one Dassault Rafale. With the supply of aircraft to India, the price for one aircraft was 240 (!) Million dollars. Specifically, in this case, a corruption component cannot be ruled out - but where are the guarantees that it will not be there when concluding a contract with Ukraine?

Let's talk about alternatives to French "help". The Swedish JAS 39E / F will cost less, but it is still a very expensive car with an AFAR radar and advanced technical characteristics against the background of the usual Saab JAS 39 Gripen. It is noteworthy that during a recent speech at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security, Defense and Intelligence, Air Force Commander Colonel-General Sergei Drozdov said that Ukraine wants to get ... F-35. The military, however, noted that this can be expected at the second stage of rearmament: the first involves the purchase of machines of the type of the aforementioned Gripen or F-15 (perhaps referring to its newest version - Eagle II).


It is theoretically possible to purchase the Chinese Chengdu J-10, the export price of which, according to the media, is in the region of $ 40 million per unit.

In general, it must be admitted that the American and European aircraft are too expensive for Ukraine. And the rearmament of the country's air force, if it takes place, will be associated with the supply of equipment from "third" countries: Turkey (you can recall the famous Bayraktar-s) or China.
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 April 19 2021 04: 51
    +7
    I think that in the next 10 years there will be nothing new in aviation.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 19 2021 05: 40
      +7
      Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will Ukraine get
      Quote: Pessimist22
      I think that in the next 10 years there will be nothing new in aviation.

      yes yes yes

      1. knn54
        knn54 April 19 2021 06: 38
        +3
        Which (s) will be written off earlier.
        1. For example
          For example April 19 2021 12: 12
          +8
          The unclean walks on the VO site.
          Minus sculpts.
          Dill are indignant, planes want.
          Tokma no money. crying

          And they don’t ask for a minus. wassat
          1. NIKN
            NIKN April 19 2021 12: 50
            +9
            Well, if without a word of 3 letters ... They won't get anything. Yes, and they have no particular goal, except for the ability to tear a fat piece, the states are aware of this, and for this reason, the refuellers immediately suggested what the difference is on what to cut the grandmother on. Planes by planes, but this is a small part of only the cost. Everyone there understands that infrastructure is needed for operation, oh, a lot of things and much more expensive, take weapons, everything, up to the shells for the cannon, to buy in the same place, consumables are also not produced in Ukraine, but fill in the wrong filling liquid or not purchased from the recommended seller and you will be to blame for any refusal. I think further and it makes no sense to continue.
            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov April 21 2021 12: 00
              +2
              "Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will Ukraine get"

              laughing laughing laughing It's funny: the topic of rearmament of aviation of Ukraine, designed for TEN YEARS. First, the Ukraine has no money either for the purchase or maintenance of modern aircraft. And the West has always proved that there are no altruists there! Secondlycompletely NOT I am sure that the current comatose state of pro-Western Bandera - obsequious servants of the State Department - will exist for another 10 years.

              Especially funny about the acquisition Chinese aircraft. The lip was rolled out! Yes, after the story with Motor Sich, China will not even sell the ears of a dead donkey to Ukraine! laughing laughing laughing
      2. APASUS
        APASUS April 19 2021 10: 25
        +2
        Quote: Insurgent
        Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will Ukraine get
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I think that in the next 10 years there will be nothing new in aviation.

        yes yes yes


        The question is not correctly posed. What will be presented, such will be!
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara April 19 2021 11: 04
          +1
          Quote: APASUS
          Quote: Insurgent
          Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will Ukraine get
          Quote: Pessimist22
          I think that in the next 10 years there will be nothing new in aviation.

          yes yes yes


          The question is not correctly posed. What will be presented, such will be!

          I bet on super tuсano. They will say that it will do well to fight terrorists in Donbass, and NATO will protect them from the Russian Federation-PEREMOGA!
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 19 2021 11: 14
            +2
            Quote: Vol4ara
            They will say that for the fight against terrorists in the Donbass it will do too


            fool yes , and that's it ...
          2. IL-18
            IL-18 April 20 2021 00: 12
            +1
            Quote: Vol4ara
            I bet on super tuсano

            What's the difference! The price will be like £ 35 per unit. Not immediately, after the deriban.
          3. Hippo
            Hippo 22 May 2021 08: 42
            0
            The Toucan has a crew of two.
            When flying over the present Donetsk, these are two guaranteed dead.
            1. Jager
              Jager 10 July 2021 14: 18
              0
              And so that the damned "terrorists" do not chalk up the shot down Tucano and receive an award, they will shoot him down. soldier laughing
        2. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 19 2021 11: 12
          +7
          Quote: APASUS
          The question is not correctly posed. What will be presented, such will be!


          I wonder APASUS, where did you see the philanthropists - sponsors belay who donated something to the Outskirts over the past seven years ???

          Even the Indians (!!! wassat ) contrived to "rip off" the Banderlog a penny for the vaccine, which was supplied to Africa as free humanitarian aid ...
          1. APASUS
            APASUS April 19 2021 16: 16
            0
            Quote: Insurgent

            Interestingly, APASUS, where have you seen philanthropists - sponsors who donated something to the Outskirts over the past seven years ???

            The Americans, for example, donate old weapons and used clothes. The fact that they get into the country already, as it were, bought from the United States, is internal problems. They gave a couple of boats as an example.
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent April 19 2021 16: 42
              -1
              Quote: APASUS
              Gave a couple of boats for example.

              Couple, this is for the "seed", "probe". The rest, then, you have to buy, and for expensive and obligatory yes .

              Have you ever heard of cheese in a mousetrap?
          2. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr April 19 2021 22: 42
            -1
            Quote: Insurgent
            Even the Hindus (!!! wassat) managed to "rip off" the Banderlog a penny for the vaccine, which was supplied to Africa as free humanitarian aid ...
            It is not a fact that the money settled with the Indians. They could well put on Ukraine for free, and how it spread inside the country is a question.
            Quote: APASUS
            The Americans, for example, donate old weapons ...
            And then the money is beaten off for spare parts, consumables, ammunition for this equipment, etc.
            What is much more profitable than recycling this old junk.
        3. Looking for
          Looking for April 19 2021 14: 43
          0
          What are you going to give?
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 19 2021 16: 52
      0
      Quote: Pessimist22
      nothing will be new from aviation.

      modern Ukraine is very similar to South Africa ... the South African Air Force is armed with influenza ...
      I think Ukraine can afford 50-60 flu, why not?
      1. clerk
        clerk April 19 2021 19: 04
        +1
        ... modern Ukraine is very similar to South Africa ... the South African Air Force is armed with influenza ...
        I think Ukraine can afford 50-60 flu, why not?
        If someone takes on permanent maintenance, then probably.
      2. stankow
        stankow April 19 2021 19: 53
        +1
        The United States did not do the Maidan so that the Swedes profited from it.
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft April 19 2021 22: 13
          0
          Quote: stankow
          The United States did not do the Maidan so that the Swedes profited from it.

          Taki yes ....
          Flu, to put it mildly, is not the most common fighter ...
          Of all NATO countries, only the United States has an F-15, and outside the United States the fingers of one hand will be enough ... count ...
          The Armed Forces of Ukraine will spend on drink the F-16 under military leasing and part of it will be handed over for free, the most massive fighter, incl. NATO countries .... now all NATO is rearming on the F-35, so 4 AEBR. it can be completed in a year, only the pilots and the airfield infrastructure need to be trained now ...
        2. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 20 2021 11: 23
          0
          Quote: stankow
          The United States did not do the Maidan so that the Swedes profited from it.

          flu is 75% American .... and worse in terms of performance than F16, flu is a modern F5 tiger.
    3. IL-18
      IL-18 April 20 2021 00: 18
      +1
      F-16s from NATO countries will be handed over as soon as the F-35 is received.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 19 2021 04: 54
    +3
    We are waiting for a pitiful, low-budget parody of Indian songs and dances, only with "ukrokolorit".
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 19 2021 05: 43
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      We are waiting for a pitiful, low-budget parody of Indian songs and dances, only with "ukrokolorit".


      " Tsiganochka hopak z vyhodom " yes Eh-x-x! Prowess kozatsko-galitsiyska!

      Wuyki yak to dance - so to dance yes
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee April 19 2021 05: 59
        +1
        Quote: Insurgent
        Prowess kozatsko-galitsiyska!

        And there the Georgian horsemen will catch up with their Suliko! wassat
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee April 19 2021 06: 04
      +12
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      songs and dances, only with "ukrokolorit".

  3. sds555
    sds555 April 19 2021 05: 06
    +5
    They will not receive any western fighters, Pan Ataman doesn’t have a penny for fighters, but besides them, money is also needed to re-equip airfields according to NATO standards, train technical personnel, modernize aircraft repair plants and much more. more than 40% of this budget has been pledged to pay off the external debt, and in the future there are no signs that the situation will change
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 April 19 2021 06: 45
      +4
      It is theoretically possible to purchase the Chinese Chengdu J-10, the export price of which, according to the media, is in the region of $ 40 million per unit.
      From China after Motorsich, they will only get ears from a dead donkey, and still have to remain.
      Rafali and Gripen, perhaps one piece at a time, to let the people in the eye.
      F-16 can be from Arizona, well, the same as Hummers with rotten wiring and dry rubber.
      In any case, it turns out zilch.
  4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka April 19 2021 05: 09
    +6
    Even the day before yesterday, Ukraine could produce and develop aircraft on its own. Yesterday, in order to ruin a neighbor, it was enough to give a neighbor a cruiser, today a fighter will be enough.
    1. Alf
      Alf April 19 2021 20: 18
      +2
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      today the fighter is enough.

      Desirable Penguin ...
  5. Thrifty
    Thrifty April 19 2021 05: 10
    +1
    By this time, the politicians' mistake called "uk-roina" should disappear from the world map. It is easy to promise them equipment now, you can sell something for your own creed, but the maintenance and operation of the same Rafal will eat up the lion's share of the defense budget. So, French, go ahead and with the song. Drive the uk-roinu even more into the debt hole.
  6. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock April 19 2021 05: 12
    +4
    About the Chinese plane in vain.
    It was not for this that everything was started, so that denyuzhki would get to someone else.
    Most likely, the decommissioned F-16s will be presented, but they will ask for money for repairs as if they were new. The scheme has already been tested on boats.
  7. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets April 19 2021 05: 12
    +6
    Such. Maybe even a party.
    1. SASHA OLD
      SASHA OLD April 19 2021 13: 45
      +2
      "Lego" is also not cheap!
      Ukraine will have to apply for a loan from the EU wassat
    2. Petrik66
      Petrik66 April 19 2021 23: 19
      +1
      wrong colors. And the price tag will be like the real one.
  8. Asad
    Asad April 19 2021 06: 01
    +4
    Laughter laughter, but ,, partners ,, Square will not allow the economy to default. They will drive the country into a bright future with a carrot and a stick. Sell, give, what's the difference? They are aware that there is nothing to take, well, they will throw crumbs from the master's table.
    1. qQQQ
      qQQQ April 19 2021 09: 16
      +3
      Quote: ASAD
      Laughter laughter, but ,, partners ,, Square will not allow the economy to default. They will drive the country into a bright future with a carrot and a stick. Sell, give, what's the difference? They are aware that there is nothing to take, well, they will throw crumbs from the master's table.

      They will not allow collapse, but they will not let them squander their money. Maybe there will be a purely symbolic delivery of up to a dozen vehicles, no matter what, the main thing will be an occasion to announce the greatest air force in the history of ukraine.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach April 19 2021 13: 10
        +3
        Well, this, they have not allowed for 7 years, and no significant improvements have yet been seen or expected.
        1. SASHA OLD
          SASHA OLD April 19 2021 13: 48
          +3
          Quote: alexmach
          Well, this, they have not allowed for 7 years, and no significant improvements have yet been seen or expected.

          so they won't allow any improvements either!
          they need a poor and embittered from hunger and cold, barely alive (but still alive), Ukraine as a source of problems for us.
  9. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya April 19 2021 06: 06
    +3
    ... Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will get Ukraine

    With the same success in Zimbabwe or Somalia can talk about the air force for their army. Ukraine has already slipped to the level of these countries and the maximum that it can have is drones from Ali for 400 bucks.
  10. Dmitry Izmalkov
    Dmitry Izmalkov April 19 2021 06: 55
    -6
    First you need to get the money. And so on IMHO F-15AU will be the best choice
    1. Alf
      Alf April 19 2021 20: 19
      0
      Quote: Dmitry Izmalkov
      First you need to get the money.

      And "master" them ... Remember the story of the Saxons. Gave it. The APU never saw them. But the Saxons flashed on Avito ...
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 20 2021 07: 19
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        And "master" them ... Remember the story of the Saxons. Gave it. They were never seen in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

        Why didn't they "see"? Saw yes





  11. alexey2073
    alexey2073 April 19 2021 07: 48
    +6
    Most likely to Ukraine, the United States will vpariyat their F-16s from storage and conservation bases, calling them F-XX (following the example of the variant for India). At the same time, having painted them as the very, very super. laughing
  12. novel66
    novel66 April 19 2021 08: 03
    0
    here recently. the article was about the I-185, ok, they will pull ..
  13. Professor
    Professor April 19 2021 08: 09
    +4
    Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will get Ukraine

    F-16 from the US store.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine April 19 2021 08: 31
      0
      Quote: Professor
      F-16 from the US store.

      Do you think or is it announced?
      1. Professor
        Professor April 19 2021 09: 15
        +3
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Quote: Professor
        F-16 from the US store.

        Do you think or is it announced?

        I guess.
    2. qQQQ
      qQQQ April 19 2021 09: 20
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      F-16 from the US store.

      This is a logical step, but even the most stubborn one is clear that without creating a new infrastructure, this is rubbish. Will the US pay for it? Ukraine simply will not financially cope with this gesheft, and the more planes they give, the more they will not be able to handle it.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer April 19 2021 09: 47
        +1
        There is rubbish in the storerooms that needs to be repaired. They already gave pshekas, who did not even fly, the scandal was loud. Personnel retraining, restructuring of the entire infrastructure - where will the money come from if the economy is in a half-killed state and no improvements are foreseen.
      2. Professor
        Professor April 19 2021 09: 56
        +3
        Quote: qqqq
        Quote: Professor
        F-16 from the US store.

        This is a logical step, but even the most stubborn one is clear that without creating a new infrastructure, this is rubbish. Will the US pay for it? Ukraine simply will not financially cope with this gesheft, and the more planes they give, the more they will not be able to handle it.

        In your opinion, Ukraine is not capable of pulling a couple of dozen fighters? You're wrong. Ukraine's GDP is 500 billion dollars.

        Quote: TermNachTER
        There is rubbish in the storerooms that needs to be repaired. They already gave pshekas, who did not even fly, the scandal was loud.

        Not. Only recently there was news of how planes were put into service from the storerooms.

        Quote: TermNachTER
        Personnel retraining, restructuring of the entire infrastructure - where will the money come from if the economy is in a half-killed state and no improvements are foreseen.

        They will print. The USA still has a lot of paint.
        1. Sahalinets
          Sahalinets April 19 2021 11: 36
          +3
          You're wrong. Ukraine's GDP is 500 billion dollars.

          By PPP. But you will have to pay for foreign equipment ...
          1. Professor
            Professor April 19 2021 12: 15
            +1
            Quote: Sahalinets
            You're wrong. Ukraine's GDP is 500 billion dollars.

            By PPP. But you will have to pay for foreign equipment ...

            Not. The Americans will give it to you. The fuel will be Ukrainian.

            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            For the next year, it is planned to allocate 8 billion euros for the military budget. The problem is not only to buy fighters, we also need simulators, ground equipment, spare parts, and weapons. Yes, and they need to be serviced and modernized before being removed from storage.
            It is unlikely that even a couple of dozen with such a budget will be able to pull.

            There is money in Ukraine and the West will help them. there is a problem with corruption. They steal immoderately.
        2. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock April 19 2021 12: 01
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          In your opinion, Ukraine is not capable of pulling a couple of dozen fighters? You're wrong. Ukraine's GDP is 500 billion dollars.

          For the next year, it is planned to allocate 8 billion euros for the military budget. The problem is not only to buy fighters, we also need simulators, ground equipment, spare parts, and weapons. Yes, and they need to be serviced and modernized before being removed from storage.
          It is unlikely that even a couple of dozen with such a budget will be able to pull.
        3. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny April 19 2021 13: 05
          +2
          Ukraine's GDP is 500 billion dollars.

          For 2018 130 yards green !!! The minuses are large external debt and a large budget deficit.
          1. Professor
            Professor April 19 2021 13: 21
            0
            Quote: Okolotochny
            Ukraine's GDP is 500 billion dollars.

            For 2018 130 yards green !!! The minuses are large external debt and a large budget deficit.

            $ 538.388 billion
            https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/ukraine/#economy
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine April 19 2021 13: 29
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              $ 538.388 billion
              https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/ukraine/#economy

              155,082, half the size of Israel. Aircraft and especially weapons are sold not for PPS, but for face value.

              So first, double the GDP, and then create an air force comparable to the Israeli (and the Russian Aerospace Forces). There is some flaw in this plan, something is wrong here ...
              1. Professor
                Professor April 19 2021 15: 22
                -2
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Quote: Professor
                $ 538.388 billion
                https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/ukraine/#economy

                155,082, half the size of Israel. Aircraft and especially weapons are sold not for PPS, but for face value.

                So first, double the GDP, and then create an air force comparable to the Israeli (and the Russian Aerospace Forces). There is some flaw in this plan, something is wrong here ...

                They are not going to BUY these planes, but there will be enough money for the maintenance. The country is not poor.

                Quote: Okolotochny
                Below you are also given figures comparable to mine.
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8B#%D0%92%D0%92%D0%9F
                In 2019 153 yards.

                Do you believe Vick more than the CIA?
                Your wiki is linking to the IMF. Here is a direct link to the IMF:
                https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2021/April/weo-report?c=926,&s=NGDP_FY,&sy=2019&ey=2026&ssm=0&scsm=1&scc=0&ssd=1&ssc=0&sic=0&sort=country&ds=.&br=1

                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Quote: Professor
                Not. Americans will give her

                I see you are a greater optimist in the part of Ukraine than the Ukrainians themselves. Yes, Ukraine must become a huge Black Sea Israel in order to solve the tasks that are now and are expected in the future. No, she didn’t do a damn thing for that, and she’s not going to do it.

                You managed to get the Americans to fork out with your behavior. wink
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine April 19 2021 20: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  You managed to get the Americans to fork out with your behavior.

                  Not yet, as far as I'm aware.
                  Quote: Professor
                  They are not going to BUY these planes, but there will be enough money for the maintenance.

                  In the sense of "will I accept as a gift 4 brigades of 4th generation fighters?" Well conceived.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor April 20 2021 06: 07
                    -1
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Not yet, as far as I'm aware.

                    You don't know. Money for military assistance to Ukraine has already been allocated.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    In the sense of "will I accept as a gift 4 brigades of 4th generation fighters?" Well conceived.

                    Well, yes.
                2. House 25 Sq. 380
                  House 25 Sq. 380 16 May 2021 04: 10
                  0
                  A direct comparison of GDP in terms of PPP, for example, with Sweden, shows that even a manufacturing country can contain no more than 98 gripenes ... and she does not need to simultaneously maintain a large land thief, poorly armed contract land army ... In Sweden, the army is recruited by conscription ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
        4. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine April 19 2021 13: 32
          +3
          Quote: Professor
          Not. Americans will give her

          I see you are a greater optimist in the part of Ukraine than the Ukrainians themselves. Yes, Ukraine must become a huge Black Sea Israel in order to solve the tasks that are now and are expected in the future. No, she didn’t do a damn thing for that, and she’s not going to do it.
      3. Looking for
        Looking for April 19 2021 14: 45
        0
        do not fantasize.
  14. Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine April 19 2021 08: 30
    +4
    I have to agree with the commentators. So far - 7 years have passed - all this strongly resembles Indian non-communication tales, with the exception of the fact that Ukraine is far from being India in terms of budget.
  15. BAI
    BAI April 19 2021 08: 32
    +3
    Rafale, Gripen or F-15: which fighter will get Ukraine

    And she will receive an F-16. A lot of them have been done, there will be no problems with spare parts. And there is no one to resell.
  16. Vovk
    Vovk April 19 2021 08: 49
    +5
    From a practical point of view, Ukraine is not yet a Major Non-NATO (MNNA) country. Ally is a US ally that is not a NATO member. Therefore, from a legislative point of view, the United States cannot yet count on significant military assistance, since the aid budget is approved each time by the Senate and cannot exceed the specified amount. But the decree on granting Ukraine the MNNA status is already in the US Senate, as I understand it will be "a subject of bargaining."
    Regarding aviation, in reality, only the airports of Lvov, Kiev (Boryspil), Odessa (only transport aviation) can receive and serve modern military equipment. Therefore, it is possible that the modernization / creation of so-called jump aerodromes will be carried out at first to meet modern military standards.
    1. Professor
      Professor April 19 2021 09: 16
      0
      Quote: Vovk
      Regarding aviation, in reality, only the airports of Lvov, Kiev (Boryspil), Odessa (only transport aviation) can receive and serve modern military equipment. Therefore, it is possible that the modernization / creation of so-called jump aerodromes will be carried out at first to meet modern military standards.

      Kulbakino can't?
      1. Vovk
        Vovk April 19 2021 09: 29
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        Kulbakino can't?

        Equipment - no.
        1. Professor
          Professor April 19 2021 10: 30
          +1
          Quote: Vovk
          Quote: Professor
          Kulbakino can't?

          Equipment - no.

          Yah? An aircraft repair plant on the territory, long-range naval aviation in the past ... do not allow you to accept and maintain modern military equipment? That is, a Boeing can be serviced in the same Nikolaev, but a Hercules capable of landing on the ground will not be able to land, unload and take off from Kulbakino?
          1. Vovk
            Vovk April 19 2021 11: 19
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            Yah? An aircraft repair plant on the territory, long-range naval aviation in the past ... do not allow you to accept and maintain modern military equipment? That is, a Boeing can be serviced in the same Nikolaev, but a Hercules capable of landing on the ground will not be able to land, unload and take off from Kulbakino?

            I have mentioned those airfields that already have the infrastructure for servicing modern combat aviation.
            Yes, you can land in Nikolaev just like at other airports, but there is still no infrastructure for modern combat aviation there.
            1. Professor
              Professor April 19 2021 13: 17
              -2
              Quote: Vovk
              I have mentioned those airfields that already have the infrastructure for servicing modern combat aviation.
              Yes, you can land in Nikolaev just like at other airports, but there is still no infrastructure for modern combat aviation there.

              I have other information.

              Quote: viktor_ui
              Oleg, good day ... nothing will happen - soon they will give in the face ... who, how and where and what we will look for. The boil is ripe drinks

              hi
          2. viktor_ui
            viktor_ui April 19 2021 12: 53
            -1
            Oleg, good day ... nothing will happen - soon they will give in the face ... who, how and where and what we will look for. The boil is ripe drinks
  17. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 April 19 2021 08: 50
    0
    "Death Star" in the computer version, and even that will be broken. wassat
  18. prior
    prior April 19 2021 09: 28
    +3
    France is a very interesting participant in the Minsk agreements.
    With one hand for the peace agreements on Donbass, with the other - the arming of Ukraine to continue the war in Donbass.
    Frogs are no better than the Americans, they climb into all holes - to Africa, and to India, and to Ukraine ...
    If a country is a colonizer, this is forever.
  19. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer April 19 2021 09: 43
    +3
    In Banderland, there is no longer any construction of transport aviation, the last car was handed over in 2016, but they began to build it even before the coup and the start of the civil war. KSAPO is in the process of bankruptcy. "An - 178" for Peru "stuck". Construction of three "178" for the bandelyand, so far in the phase of "budget wagering". One can simply say about combat aviation - nothing will happen, because the economy is going into an ever deeper peak and no way out of it is expected.
  20. Petrik66
    Petrik66 April 19 2021 10: 03
    0
    Get F 16 from Bulgaria. When they get F 35.)))
    1. stankow
      stankow April 19 2021 20: 05
      0
      F-16 Bulgaria to receive in 2023. 8 pieces, with a minimum of weapons. F-35 may be in 2040 ... American greedy. In the past, the USSR supplied us with 460 aircraft and helicopters. For 40 years. And the USA for 35 years - 8. And have not seen it yet!
  21. yehat2
    yehat2 April 19 2021 10: 38
    +1
    large-scale rearmament is simply too expensive for Ukraine.
    given their huge debts and a shrinking budget, we are talking more about replacing the material base of the 1st air regiment. Accordingly, there is no chance that unification will be carried out.
    And what kind of cars should you buy in these conditions?
    There are 5 options
    1.to look for Russian cars in the post-Soviet space, especially since some have decided to re-equip their fleet
    2.Purchase in the Russian Federation
    3. look for relatively inexpensive purchases in the west. For example, flupen or one of the F-16 versions in combination with screw percussion machines.
    4. Bet on Chinese cars (while they can be equipped with more reliable Russian engines)
    5. modernization.

    Rafali is ridiculous. Ukraine will be able to buy them by a squadron per year with a huge budget strain. Roughly the same with f-15E (EX) or f-35 or the latest modifications of f-16.
    but in reality, most likely, they will not buy anything at all and will cut the few funds that are available on fictitious upgrades.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock April 19 2021 12: 32
      +2
      Quote: yehat2
      2.Purchase in the Russian Federation

      Very funny.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 April 19 2021 13: 31
        -3
        this is not funny. for example, mig-29 transferred from Crimea to Ukraine, which appeared in the sky of Donbass.
        1. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon April 19 2021 17: 45
          +3
          Quote: yehat2
          this is not funny. for example, mig-29 transferred from Crimea to Ukraine

          Then they still tried to get along with them. Now there is no.

          Quote: yehat2
          The rate is on Chinese cars (while they can be equipped with more reliable Russian engines)

          After setting up with Motor Sich? This is from the category of fantasy.
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 16 July 2021 11: 16
            +1
            Ukraine is generally a wonderland. They don't do nifiga, but everyone owes them, bacon is earing in the fields, and military equipment is purchased from countries with which they are waging war.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. wow
    wow April 19 2021 12: 58
    +2
    "... where is Zin's money !?"
  24. Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon April 19 2021 17: 44
    0
    The correct answer is none. At best, they can only pull light turboprop attack aircraft (which is not to say bad) or a used F-16.
  25. CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz April 19 2021 19: 38
    -1
    UA poluchit takoy samolet, kotoriy ey podariat.
    Dumayu podariat im F 16 iz khranenia.
  26. stankow
    stankow April 19 2021 19: 49
    0
    Any. Provided that the state one :)
  27. Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets April 19 2021 22: 34
    0
    as I wrote earlier ... exactly those and exactly as much as there is enough money based on reality ... in short, nothing and not how much
  28. garik77
    garik77 April 19 2021 23: 13
    0
    Where does the money come from, zine? Even with all the desire, nothing will come of it. It's not enough to buy airplanes, you also need to purchase all the service infrastructure for them, and this all adds up to a lot of money for impoverished Ukraine.
  29. Usher
    Usher April 19 2021 23: 13
    0
    It is theoretically possible to purchase the Chinese Chengdu J-10, the export price of which, according to the media, is in the region of $ 40 million per unit.
    after the story with Motorsich, it is unlikely.
  30. Maxwrx
    Maxwrx April 20 2021 14: 32
    0
    Why are they not considered used? Europe is actively switching to the F-35. Tornado (I think they will buy it), f-18, f-16, eurofighter, gripen. They can buy and service quite cheaply
  31. Dimon-SPG
    Dimon-SPG 5 May 2021 12: 15
    0
    Is there any point in discussing what kind of aircraft a country will get, which in principle is not capable of pulling any Air Force? Like the Navy too ....
  32. Burtas
    Burtas 11 May 2021 14: 29
    0
    First, let them give $ 3 billion, then the rogue will find a penny ... and only then plans and dreams ...
  33. Decimalegio
    Decimalegio 21 May 2021 12: 19
    -1
    What plane will Ukraine get ............. what it can pay for. Mass cannot be sung without money.
  34. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 22 May 2021 17: 05
    0
    Banderlyand will get a hole from a donut)))) and not because they are poor, but because the Kuevo goons are very greedy)))
  35. ecolog
    ecolog 23 May 2021 10: 54
    0
    Aviation is the most expensive branch of the military to buy and operate; only the Navy can be more expensive. Even if they have a squadron or two of Rafale conditional. What will it change? DPR-LPR and especially Crimea cannot be conquered by Rafals. In an open conflict with the Russian Federation, they will quickly end. Money down the drain.
  36. Burtas
    Burtas 29 May 2021 20: 04
    0
    Yes, no ... only in dreams, they will fly on brooms. First you need to earn money, then pay off the debt of $ 3 billion, then earn again, and these freeloaders are unlikely to be able to ..... they are used to everything for free. As they said to take does not mean to return ...
  37. tezey
    tezey 6 June 2021 13: 33
    0
    Dreaming is not harmful. Most likely, the United States will tell the Ukrainian authorities that it is necessary to buy from them the decommissioned F-16 or F-18 and everyone will be fine.
  38. Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 27 June 2021 20: 05
    0
    If I were the dictator of a country in the third and a half of the world, and I would be offered new planes, then, by and large, if I want the best planes for the money that I pay, I have few options.
    a) Influenza. Excellent maneuverability, electronics, and ease of maintenance, for very little money. AFAR, supersonic without afterburner, and a bunch of other goodies in stock. Reliable indestructible engine. And the possibility of service in the field by people of low qualifications (2 recruits and a sergeant).
    b) F16 block 52 and higher. And again, excellent electronics, maneuverability and inexpensive to maintain (in terms of performance characteristics, it is inferior to influenza, but carries more BR). Supermodularity. And again AFAR. True, there is no supersonic sound without afterburner. Reliable indestructible engine.
    c) J10. Worse than Grippen and F16, but cheaper. Easy to maintain, but engines need to be changed more often. (they are not free either). Also AFAR.
    d) MiG-35.

    EVERYTHING. As soon as we get to Raphael, Typhoon and F15 we are talking about 90M + bucks per plane. And this is just the "price ahead", and the prices for service and infrastructure are also not 10 or XNUMX bucks.
    But that’s if I’m a dictator of some kind of "nazalEzhnaya" banana republic, only without bananas. I'm NOT saying the Rafale is a bad plane. Versatile, maneuverable, head and shoulders above the F15C. But it is VERY expensive (see how much the Indians paid). F15C is also far from cheap. In terms of maneuverability, it is inferior to F16, Rafal and Typhoon and Grippen, and J10 and Migu 35.
    If I were the "Supreme Clown of All NazalEezhnoy", then I would take Grippens E or F16 Block 52 and above (WITH AFAR). I think the Ukrainians will take the most expensive, firstly, they can boast of how cool they are, and secondly, the rollback is cut more. I think they will take Rafali. And there are very good engines, electronics and electronic warfare stuffing. GRU, get your dough ready. It will be very funny if some Ukrainian pilot hijacks Rafal in Russia :-) and sells it at a market price (100 million dollars).
  39. storm
    storm 11 July 2021 14: 02
    0
    In addition to the existing MiG - 29 and Su-27, Ukraine has nothing and never will !!!
  40. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 11 July 2021 14: 04
    0
    > The statements of some Ukrainian journalists that “you can rearm the army by fighting corruption” sound at least naive.
    In theory, it is probably possible if the economy is focused on high-tech and IT. But. Ukraine with IT is not on the way)

    > It is theoretically possible to purchase the Chinese Chengdu J-10, the export price of which, according to the media, is in the region of $ 40 million per unit.
    I think that after the antics with Motor Sich, the PRC will not have a desire to sell something for the 404.

    The realities, it seems, are such that second-hand aircraft from the West await Ukraine, not new modifications and an unprecedented spiritual uplift of quasi-education, in honor of the appearance of these old machines.