Military Review

Russia completes contract for the supply of RD-180 rocket engines to the United States

57

Russia has completed a contract for the supply of RD-180 rocket engines to the United States, the last batch has gone to the customer. This was announced by Roskosmos.


As explained, on April 14, NPO Energomash handed over to the American side the last six RD-180 engines produced for the United States under the current contract. Representatives of American companies signed documents on the acceptance of engines, after which they will be sent to the States.

It is noted that this is the last batch under the contract, it was supposed to go to the United States in 2020, but the delivery did not take place due to the coronavirus pandemic. Over the entire period of cooperation, Energomash has delivered 122 RD-180 engines to the United States.

However, Energomash does not intend to lose the American market and is negotiating new contracts for Russian rocket engines. It is not excluded that the United States, despite the demands of Congress to completely abandon Russian engines, will sign a new agreement. At least last year, it was reported that US dependence on the RD-180 and RD-181 will last until 2024 at least.

At the same time, the sale of Russian engines to the Americans brings up to a third of Energomash's proceeds. A complete refusal to supply can lead to losses from 10 to 13 billion rubles per year.

The RD-180 engines are used on the Atlas rockets, and the R-181 engines are used on the Antares rockets, which are used to send Cygnus cargo ships to the ISS.
57 comments
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 April 16 2021 12: 50
    +5
    However, Energomash does not intend to lose the American market and is negotiating new contracts for Russian rocket engines.
    The question is - can they do it differently?
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS April 16 2021 13: 00
      +14
      So far, dependence on US purchases of rocket engines is critical for Energomash: none of the other countries on the foreign market is simply ready to start purchasing serial (more than 10 units) batches of engines. Single deliveries, in turn, do not quite meet the interests of Russia: for example, the government and the Security Council believe that the same China expects to purchase a minimum batch of conditional RD-180s for the subsequent development of its analogues.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 16 2021 13: 08
        +6
        In general, the company has no choice.
        1. keeper03
          keeper03 April 16 2021 22: 27
          -3
          Can hare already striped to sell our engines!?! belay request If you already want to sell them like that, then there is China, for example, or other space "powers": India, Iran, etc. ! yes
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 17 2021 10: 40
            -1
            There is no good answer, suggestions on this topic.
      2. Trotil42
        Trotil42 April 16 2021 13: 49
        +4
        Quote: WHAT IS
        So far, dependence on US purchases of rocket engines is critical for Energomash: none of the other countries on the foreign market is simply ready to start purchasing serial (more than 10 units) batches of engines. Single deliveries, in turn, do not quite meet the interests of Russia: for example, the government and the Security Council believe that the same China expects to purchase a minimum batch of conditional RD-180s for the subsequent development of its analogues.

        But how much PR was about the trampoline ... and malice ..
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 April 16 2021 14: 00
          0
          Some kind of chatter ... all sorts of different, not interesting.
          The problems of specific people, enterprises, this is important.
      3. Hagen
        Hagen April 16 2021 17: 29
        +3
        Quote: WHAT IS
        China expects to purchase a minimum batch of conditional RD-180

        You can work with the Indians. Better yet, with the Iranians ... laughing Why not please old man Biden. A preliminary exit from all sanctions regimes not approved by the UN Security Council.
        1. xorek
          xorek April 16 2021 17: 54
          0
          Quote: Hagen
          You can work with the Indians. Better yet, with the Iranians ...

          Or with the DPRK .. I think many of our engines would have bought countries in the world .. The USA bought everything in bulk and still pouring mud at Russia. So maybe everything is for the better, otherwise the enemy was supplied, and he used these engines to place his military satellites in orbit, against us .. Enough to humiliate ourselves because of this Judas money .. I think so hi .
    2. ALEX_SHTURMAN
      ALEX_SHTURMAN April 16 2021 13: 48
      +14
      The fact of the matter is that no, the United States somehow supported our astronautics for 20 years: buying RD-180 engines, buying seats in the Soyuz spacecraft, paying for the construction of ISS modules and putting them into orbit, launching various vehicles until 2015, we were still leaders , and now they have slipped to 3-4 places. If you count these amounts for all the time they turn out to be huge, the question is to the leadership of Roscosmos, what have they been doing all this time? It was necessary to somehow prepare, that it would end sometime. Unfortunately, time is lost, the launch vehicles currently being developed are not competitive in the world market, the cost from the launch is almost 2 times higher than the Falcon9. And whether anyone in the world except the Ministry of Defense will use the services of Roscosmos. Refusing to cooperate with the United States in space on various projects, one must assume that the money that our enterprises received will disappear, but it is not known whether the Russian budget will replace it ...
      1. xorek
        xorek April 16 2021 18: 00
        -5
        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        The fact of the matter is that no, the United States has somehow supported our astronautics for 20 years: buying RD-180 engines, buying seats in the Soyuz spacecraft, paying for the construction of ISS modules

        Do not believe the Danes who give gifts ... Do you know such a parable? Now, this is just about them. It is not in vain that Russia is going to build its own separate station in space, we are too robbed by cunning people, and they have been engaged in technological espionage, destroying our space industry for many years .. Yes, very simple
      2. slipped
        slipped April 16 2021 19: 28
        +5
        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        The fact of the matter is that no, the United States somehow supported our astronautics for 20 years: buying RD-180 engines, buying seats in the Soyuz spacecraft, paying for the construction of ISS modules and putting them into orbit, launching various vehicles


        The usual buyer-seller relationship. We have something to sell - they had the opportunity to purchase quality goods.

        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        until 2015 we were still leaders, but now we have slipped to 3-4 places.


        Oh and ay. As we were one of the leading countries in space, we have remained.

        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        If you count these amounts for all the time they turn out to be huge, the question is to the leadership of Roscosmos, what have they been doing all this time?


        You have voiced the list above.

        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        It was necessary to somehow prepare, that it would end sometime. Unfortunately, time is lost, the launch vehicles currently being developed are not competitive in the world market, the cost from the launch is almost 2 times higher than the Falcon9.


        Wrong. The cost of launching heavy satellites on the Proton-M is comparable to the new, not used, F9. The cost of launching a similar payload per kg on Soyuz-2 is three times cheaper. F9 wins only with twice the mass of output on the second-hand first stage, and then there is a surcharge.

        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        And whether anyone in the world except the Ministry of Defense will use the services of Roscosmos.


        Wrong. Only a few days ago, Soyuz-2 launched clusters with foreign spacecraft from different countries. The Vostochny cosmodrome is preparing for a new commercial launch:



        Quote: ALEX_SHTURMAN
        Refusing to cooperate with the United States in space on various projects, one must assume that the money that our enterprises received will disappear, but it is not known whether the Russian budget will replace it ...


        There is an expansion of production and the release of new serial rocket engines.
    3. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko April 17 2021 06: 24
      +1
      If you don't exchange dollars for rubles, how can you exist?
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty April 16 2021 12: 50
    +4
    I just want to swear, there are no other words! So what, then, is the Kremlin's "tough response" to the new US sanctions? ??
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 April 16 2021 12: 56
      -1
      So what, then, is the Kremlin's "tough response" to the new US sanctions? ??

      the Americans themselves have a liquid "sanctions response". It seems that everything and everyone is forbidden, but the engines are bought. That is, politics is politics, and your pocket is closer to your body laughing
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 April 16 2021 13: 20
      +3
      Well, what to do? Should the plant expel half of the people, and surrender the shop for warehouses? These engines are needed only for a specific Atlas. You can't attach them to other rockets. There is nowhere to repurpose, so they produce as much for engines as needed for national launches, with a reserve pool.

      It's like banning titanium from being sold to Americans. Just what to do with avisma? Russia does not need so much titanium, and neither does China. Moreover, blanks are also not needed, which means to cut thousands of people who work in the production of products of the basic appearance for Boeing and Watermelon, for which Sevmash pigs are needed.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 16 2021 15: 01
        +3
        Under the USSR, Soviet aircraft occupied up to 40% of the world's aircraft fleet. If you revive the industry, then you will need titanium yourself.
        Space is expensive. We need to negotiate with the countries concerned. For example, India, South Africa, Brazil, Arab countries, etc. Then there will be no such dependence on the States. hi
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 16 2021 15: 06
          +3
          40% of the world aircraft fleet under the USSR is less than a percent today. The world's aircraft fleet has grown significantly.

          For example, in the year before the pandemic, Boeing produced over 750 aircraft, and Watermelon 863 (including Bombardier - A220). This is for a year.

          For example, the Tu-154 has produced just over a thousand over the years.

          Actually, even if the Soviet pace is returned with a hundred annual aircraft of all sizes, then the air force will still have to be drastically reduced.
      2. NKT
        NKT April 16 2021 15: 52
        0
        If it is partially redesigned for the production of ship engines?
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 16 2021 16: 14
          0
          How? To burn down interplanetary frigates like SuperGorshkov ??? Or to cut seas-oceans on rocket engines?

          This is completely different. Rocket engines have one specificity, materials, machine tools, technical requirements and trained personnel. Gas turbines have something completely different. There will be no special difference between re-profiling a workshop for RD-180 or a plant for the production of any metal products. If you look for subcontractors, then again gas turbine engines (for helicopters, for example), turbofan engines, etc. And then, because of the dimension and approach, half of the machine park will have to be changed.
          1. slipped
            slipped April 16 2021 19: 33
            +2
            Quote: donavi49
            There will be no special difference between re-profiling a workshop for RD-180 or a plant for the production of any metal products.


            Nobody is going to "redesign the workshops". laughing In the same "workshops" other engines of a similar design are being assembled - RD-171MV, RD-191.

      3. xorek
        xorek April 16 2021 18: 11
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        Well, what to do? Should the plant expel half of the people, and surrender the shop for warehouses? These engines are needed only for a specific Atlas. You can't attach them to other rockets.

        Do not worry if your USA does not interfere with any where, there are a lot of people in the world .. And then they were different, like everything was gone, without amer purchases of the Khan of our space industry .. Well, well, we know these songs since the 90s. ...
  3. GTYCBJYTH2021
    GTYCBJYTH2021 April 16 2021 12: 52
    -4
    Energomash wanes without American orders .. Will go bankrupt like Russian factories .... Rogozin will jump from a trampoline into space ... But if the engine is produced at the warehouse, overproduction will turn out ... what
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 April 16 2021 12: 57
      -11%
      Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
      It will go bankrupt like Russian factories ...

      At the very least, it is unreasonable to pass off your own Wishlist as a real state of affairs. yes
      1. GTYCBJYTH2021
        GTYCBJYTH2021 April 16 2021 13: 21
        -5
        Quote: Paranoid50
        Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
        It will go bankrupt like Russian factories ...

        At the very least, it is unreasonable to pass off your own Wishlist as a real state of affairs. yes

        Why, for what purpose to cover up real affairs with dreams and your Wishlist, everything in Russia is good ........ wink
    2. DymOk_v_dYmke
      DymOk_v_dYmke April 16 2021 13: 15
      -9
      Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
      Energomash is waning without American orders .. It will go bankrupt like Russian factories ...

      Will not decay.
      The demand for launches is growing from year to year. Selling engines is like driving raw round timber over a hill. Better to bite off the striped portion of the commercial launch market.

      PS When a manufacturer is chasing a consumer, it often turns into dumping.
      => not * ren to them engines to offer, let them beg. hi
      1. ccsr
        ccsr April 16 2021 13: 18
        -2
        Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
        The demand for launches is growing from year to year. Selling engines is like driving raw round timber over a hill. Better to bite off the striped portion of the commercial launch market.

        It is in this direction that we need to move, and, if possible, dump on the space services market in order to subvert American rocket scientists.
        1. Cananecat
          Cananecat April 16 2021 13: 54
          +2
          Quote: ccsr
          to subvert American rocket scientists

          It is enough to switch to the gold ruble in the calculations ...)))
      2. GTYCBJYTH2021
        GTYCBJYTH2021 April 16 2021 13: 31
        -4
        Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
        Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
        Energomash is waning without American orders .. It will go bankrupt like Russian factories ...

        Will not decay.
        The demand for launches is growing from year to year. Selling engines is like driving raw round timber over a hill. Better to bite off the striped portion of the commercial launch market.

        PS When a manufacturer is chasing a consumer, it often turns into dumping.
        => not * ren to them engines to offer, let them beg. hi

        Your thoughts are good, correct ..... Let the West itself lower the pipe into the sea, or let it pay for gas transit through Ukraine, so they don’t beg for gas from Russia, and that’s the dumping of the manufacturer ... enterprises-LPK, DOK, LDK in Krasnoyarsk ..... Near Kansk, the Chinese bought a workshop and made STICKS for ice cream from cedar .... they made them for many years ..... and fled back to China .....
      3. donavi49
        donavi49 April 16 2021 13: 39
        +3
        The need for launches is growing from year to year


        Stagnates. And these are the main players that are just emerging. RocketLab's neutron will gobble up market share guaranteed, they have already gained a reputation and the economy is normal. There is also China, which, according to the plan, entered the world launch market and now it is the toughest competitor, because it works precisely for the same target group - for example, Cambodia, which flies on Chinese missiles, Argentina with Nusat, Indosat from Indonesia, the first satellite of Nicoragua again, not on the Union, but on LongMarch3, the military satellite of Field Marsh Sisi flies again on LongMarch next year.

        striped have a share of the market for commercial launches.


        Almost unrealistic. They will prohibit the launch of spacecraft on Russian launch vehicles where there is participation or components of American production. And that’s all. Rogozin has already spoken about this by the way, but so far they are selectively beating.

        Self-service turnkey trying, but very ugly came out with an Angolan satellite. Where RKK and Lavochkin sluggishly threw a known substance, figuring out who messed up. As a result, almost at the level of Putin, they were assured of re-launching the best satellite - but it was moved again, this time to 2022. Who in their right mind would order a turnkey service with such a reputation? Everyone breaks down, but then the story went along an extremely flawed reputational path. sad .
        1. slipped
          slipped April 16 2021 19: 41
          +2
          Quote: donavi49
          As a result, almost at the level of Putin, they were assured of re-launching the best satellite - but it was moved again, this time to 2022.


          It is surprising that you remember the Angolan apparatus, but do not remember the successfully working Egyptian, as well as the recently launched Russian-made MCA, purchased by other countries. laughing

          Quote: donavi49
          Who in their right mind would order a turnkey service with such a reputation? Everyone breaks down, but then the story went along an extremely damaging reputational path. sad .


          Already ordered. The reputation is all right - it has been proven by domestic spacecraft successfully operating in high orbits.
      4. Cosm22
        Cosm22 April 16 2021 14: 05
        -4
        The need for engines can only grow if the number of starts increases. Which in Russia is steadily declining every year, and this trend has already become stable. The launch plan fails every year. What is it all about?
        About biting off Musk's commercial orders? Than???
        A second Union with a half-century history? Or Angara and its exorbitant price? You don't need to make people laugh.
        Nobody will beg for Russian engines. They have no use even in the domestic Russian market. RD-170/180 smoke on the sidelines, nobody needs them in the Russian Federation. Soyuz-5? Well, well ... I hope I won't get old when the fifth Union is taken out to the UK.
  4. GREG68
    GREG68 April 16 2021 12: 54
    +3
    Yes ... we are at the door, and we are at the window ..
  5. Sandro1977
    Sandro1977 April 16 2021 13: 10
    -2
    It is necessary, as by analogy with Victory, to rename rd180 to the Motherland ... And ask how they are selling their Motherland ...
  6. CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz April 16 2021 13: 12
    -1
    Zavershenim etikh postavok pribil Roskozmosa sokrashchaetsa na 1/3.
  7. leks
    leks April 16 2021 13: 26
    +1
    Quote: donavi49
    Well, what to do? Should the plant expel half of the people, and surrender the shop for warehouses? These engines are needed only for a specific Atlas. You can't attach them to other rockets. There is nowhere to repurpose, so they produce as much for engines as needed for national launches, with a reserve pool.

    It's like banning titanium from being sold to Americans. Just what to do with avisma? Russia does not need so much titanium, and neither does China. Moreover, blanks are also not needed, which means to cut thousands of people who work in the production of products of the basic appearance for Boeing and Watermelon, for which Sevmash pigs are needed.


    Wherever you throw it - there is a wedge everywhere "
    hopelessness and complete lack of options for action, which does not allow solving problems and there is no way out of a difficult situation.
    So in terms of retaliatory actions by the Russian Federation against the United States, we have nothing to answer with the maximum expulsion of diplomats.
  8. Alexander Terentyev
    Alexander Terentyev April 16 2021 13: 26
    -9
    If sanctions are announced, the signing of contracts must be suspended until the sanctions are lifted - all that have been imposed on Russia over the past five years. This should be our sanctions response.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock April 16 2021 14: 42
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Terentyev
      the signing of contracts must be suspended until.

      Right.
      Close the plant, fire all workers and engineers.
      At the construction sites they are crying that the Tajiks / Kyrgyz have not arrived, let the factory workers go to knead the concrete, they have nothing to do with rockets.
    2. KeithRichards
      KeithRichards April 17 2021 19: 53
      +1
      Well, the contracts for Atlas-5 have been shifted for a year or a year and a half .. There is already a Vulcan almost ready, which will be a replacement for the atlas, and there will be no Russian engines.
      While stomping with their feet, they can throw orders over a mask, well, or just wait.
      As a result, then again you will get a funny reaction like words about a trampoline.
  9. knn54
    knn54 April 16 2021 13: 33
    +12
    The American company General Dynamic (owner of Atlases) announced a tender in 1995 for the development of a new engine, and this tender was won by NPO Energomash, which offered a price several times lower than its competitors. They just took the engine from the Energia rocket and made only two instead of four cameras. Energomash, transferred all the rights and all documentation for its production to the Americans, and they, in accordance with the terms of the tender, placed the production of the engine in Russia at the Energomash factories - there was all the necessary technical equipment. By the way, ALL key elements of the RD-180 are protected by American patents owned by the United States. -: US Patent 6244041, US Patent 6226980, USPatent 6442931.
    When Russia itself needed this engine for the Rus-M and Angara missiles, it turned out that, under the terms of the contract, it could not manufacture the RD-180 for its own purposes, but had to purchase it from the American company Pratt & Whitney.
    Elon Musk claims that he can do better and cheaper.
    BUT the Yankees are afraid of market monopolization more than anything else.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne has already developed a fundamentally new engine (technologies do not stand still), which in three years will replace the Russian one and will be much cheaper compared to the RD-180.
    And when in Russia they began to develop a complete Russian analogue of the RD-180V for Rus-M missiles, it did not work out. If there are still specialists in the production of engines, then there are no more specialists in their development.
    Moreover, the automation: pumps, valves. are American. Developed by Lockheed and Martin.
    1. Sarboz
      Sarboz April 16 2021 14: 53
      +2
      Quote: knn54
      When Russia itself needed this engine for the Rus-M and Angara missiles, it turned out that, under the terms of the contract, it could not manufacture the RD-180 for its own purposes, but had to purchase it from the American company Pratt & Whitney.

      Yes, in the 90s they knew how to conclude "profitable" contracts. But nevertheless, due to even such a losing position, the company was loaded with orders for so many years.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr April 16 2021 17: 36
      0
      Quote: knn54
      When Russia itself needed this engine for the Rus-M and Angara missiles, it turned out that, under the terms of the contract, it could not manufacture the RD-180 for its own purposes, but had to purchase it from the American company Pratt & Whitney.

      Nobody can prohibit us from producing these engines for OWN needs. But to use them with foreign companies, the consent of the Americans will be required, this is really prescribed in contracts for such equipment. And if the Americans are hard at work, then we will simply modernize this engine and release it under a new name.
      Quote: knn54
      Aerojet Rocketdyne has already developed a fundamentally new engine (technologies do not stand still), which in three years will replace the Russian one and will be much cheaper compared to the RD-180.

      Yes, it was already announced about five years ago that they would completely switch to their own engines, but it turns out that only after three years something will be created (or maybe not created) to replace our engine.
      By the way, this is what the Americans say:
      The US Congressional Research Service concluded that the American side will not find an alternative to the Russian RD-180 rocket engine until 2030, RT reports.
      As indicated in the expert report, the United States in the next 10 years will not be able to create its own rocket engine equal to the Russian one in terms of technical performance and level of reliability.
      In November last year, The National Interest wrote that the United States still cannot get rid of its dependence on Russian RD-180 rocket engines, although in recent years it has introduced various restrictive measures against Moscow.

      So let's see what they build in 2022 ...
      Quote: knn54
      And when in Russia they began to develop a complete Russian analogue of the RD-180V for Rus-M missiles, it did not work out.

      Or maybe they just refused, due to the fact that there was no funding?
      Quote: knn54
      Moreover, the automation: pumps, valves. are American. Developed by Lockheed and Martin.

      So they were obliged to provide us with all the documentation, otherwise we would not have been responsible for accidents with our engine. I do not think that our designers could not figure out this technique, especially since no one canceled industrial espionage.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 April 16 2021 18: 39
        +4
        Yes, it was already announced about five years ago that they would completely switch to their own engines, but it turns out that only after three years something will be created (or maybe not created) to replace our engine.


        So they go. Only no one makes a replacement (except for journalists for news - because this is how the article will be read more). Make NEW ENGINES, FOR NEW PH!

        The Atlas is completely changed, the new Vulcan-Centaurus rocket is being assembled, and the methane engines have passed the ground test stage. The next stage of the launch is October 2021, but will probably leave at 22. This is YULA, they are all unhurried.

        The main problem is the manned Starliner, as well as expensive scientific missions (which cannot be quickly replaced in case of detonation). Musk is not lucky Starliner on Falcon, for a competitor. Scientific luck is easy.

        The second engine from Airjet is currently being made for a private shop from Texas (Firefly). Their Alpha rocket is flying very soon.



        AR1 after the failure of competition with BE4 for YULA, is done for the second RN Fireflies - Beta. Of the distinctive sides are classic technical solutions (oxygen-kerosene fuel vapor) with advanced production technologies (maximum 3D printing and automated procedures, no people).
        1. ccsr
          ccsr April 16 2021 18: 50
          -6
          Quote: donavi49
          Make NEW ENGINES, FOR NEW PH!

          The shuttle also had a new engine, and how did it all end? Where is the shuttle program, and why have Americans still bought our engines?
          Quote: donavi49
          The main problem is the manned Starliner, as well as expensive scientific missions (which cannot be quickly replaced in case of detonation). Musk is not lucky Starliner on Falcon, for a competitor. Scientific luck is easy.

          This is all in words so far, and even you are sure that the 2021 plan will not be fulfilled, and the deadline will be postponed.
          Quote: donavi49
          Of the distinctive sides are classic technical solutions (oxygen-kerosene fuel vapor) with advanced production technologies (maximum 3D printing and automated procedures, no people).

          Let's talk about it when at least one American mission performs accident-free flights on them. And I have been hearing propaganda for fifteen years, even from American presidents.
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 April 16 2021 19: 12
            +4
            Where is the shuttle program, and why have Americans still bought our engines?


            It went down in history after 135 flights into space (for comparison, 151 Soyuz are now flying). And yes, only the Shuttles took out more people than the entire space program of the USSR and Russia.

            I am already silent about all sorts of unique operations, such as the repair of the Hubble, which would have been simply impossible without the shuttle and the mission would have been lost in the Pacific Ocean. I don't think it's worth explaining the need and importance of the same hubble? By the way, by the way, a fresh good video about it with materiel and without politics.


            This is all in words so far, and even you are sure that the 2021 plan will not be fulfilled, and the deadline will be postponed.

            Let's talk about this when at least one American mission will perform accident-free flights on them.


            Well, I propose to wait. wink I just pointed out that no one was going and is not going to make a replacement for the RD-180. They made a fundamental decision long ago to take the next step. Well, private traders (such as Fireflies, Mask, BlueOrigin, Relavity, RocketLab and others) are generally on their minds.
            1. slipped
              slipped April 16 2021 20: 41
              -1
              Quote: donavi49
              It went down in history after 135 flights into space (for comparison, 151 Soyuz are now flying). And yes, only the Shuttles took out more people than the entire space program of the USSR and Russia.


              This is due to the banal capacity and size of these ships. The Soyuz crew is 2-3 people, the shuttle crew is 7 people. It's like comparing a truck with a kung and shift workers and a pickup truck for a wholesale store with a freight forwarder. laughing And the number of launches in the transport version of "Soyuz" directly depends on the stations to which they dock - a year, a little earlier, only four TPKs were required to support the crew at the station.


              More or less frequent flights of shuttles became only during the assembly of the ISS, the design of the ISS AS was created back in the 80s and did not provide for another assembly. As assembled - shuttles became stupidly unnecessary.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr April 16 2021 21: 32
              -5
              Quote: donavi49
              And yes, only the Shuttles took out more people than the entire space program of the USSR and Russia.

              And they killed two crews and two ships, after which they urgently had to turn it down - well, just a "triumph" of design and engineering thought in the United States. Maybe there will be enough chatter about a shuttle, which was no more economical in terms of the cost of putting a kilogram into orbit than our Union?
              Quote: donavi49
              I am already silent about all sorts of unique operations, such as the repair of the Hubble, which would have been simply impossible without the shuttle and the mission would have been lost in the Pacific Ocean.

              And to us what this hubble makes is not our program, and its results are not so important to us.
              Quote: donavi49
              I don't think it's worth explaining the need and importance of the same hubble?

              We didn't need him for nothing - that's for sure. What could he give us - can you formulate?
              Quote: donavi49
              I just pointed out that no one was going and is not going to make a replacement for the RD-180.

              Or maybe the Americans simply cannot create such an engine with such quality and such a price? We already went through this, can you remember the fate of F1, and why was it abandoned, having come up with a beautiful legend that the shuttle would be cheaper?
              Quote: donavi49
              Well, private traders (such as Fireflies, Mask, BlueOrigin, Relavity, RocketLab and others) are generally on their minds.

              What do we care about that? Let's see what will happen at the exit, especially since you promised us something grandiose at the end of this year, although you immediately laid the stock for yourself in one more year, apparently you feel that there will be no nifig. By the way, how about Musk's four accidents in recent months?
              1. donavi49
                donavi49 April 17 2021 08: 34
                +2
                grandiose at the end of this year


                Where? It is from the Americans this year:
                - Start of commercial launches of Branson (1 successful), this is an aerial platform. By the way, OneWeb said that if this storyteller starts flying as promised, they will return their mega-order for 40 missiles to him.
                - The first launch and 2 more commercial ones from Alpha Fireflies. This is a ton-class missile. It occupies a highly demanded niche now between Electron and other launch vehicles.
                - Start PC1, another private trader (Sheffield-California) for 1 ton of output.
                - Normal operation of the Astra. This is a hike, drinking crap. They poured money into it decently, but there is no exhaust, so state employees still throw a pollard to them. Ideology is an urgent withdrawal of small satellites.

                Of the grains:
                - The first flight of Vulcan-Centauri is scheduled for October 2021 but will probably be postponed.
                - The first flight of the SLS, the largest rocket of mankind, November. Probably postponed to 2022, Boeing.
                - The first flight of Terran 1, the most technologically advanced rocket of mankind, well, let's see if robots fail in production, general 3D printing of rocket, tanks, engines.

                By the way, how about Musk's four accidents in recent months?


                Well, these are actually flight stands. They should explode. Everyone has. I personally think the project is too revolutionary and there are too many problems that cannot be solved. It would be more optimal to make Falcon9 on LNG and smoothly develop a new space carrier by the 30s. The starship will either burn out and make all other missiles obsolete at once, like steam and electric self-propelled crews after the crews are released to the internal combustion engine, or it will waste a lot of money and effort, and as a result, competitors will make Falcon9 obsolete and devour a pool of orders.

                So far, since the beginning of the year, Musk has made 10 launches = all are successful, not a single injected vehicle has been lost. This is more than China (8), Russia (6).

                ditched two crews and two ships


                The Union also killed 2 crews and two ships in 151 launches.

                I had to fold it


                But they decided not to fold. The main problem of the Shuttles is that the estimate flew into space faster than the Shuttle. The ISS was also assembled - there were no other regular tasks. Giant satellites are a thing of the past. And even launching a Delta Heavy was cheaper than the Shuttle, and the result was the same. That is, of course, the Shuttle had residual tasks, but leaving for launch once every two or three years would have cost gigantic funds. And the administration decided to slaughter the cow, starting a deep reform. Where NASA has transformed from the host of the banquet, into the manager of funds and the customer of launch services. This is how the same Swan-Antares, Musk, RocketLab, ULA projects, a bunch of private traders appeared.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr April 17 2021 15: 29
                  0
                  Quote: donavi49
                  Of the grains:
                  - The first flight of Vulcan-Centauri is scheduled for October 2021 but will probably be postponed.
                  - The first flight of the SLS, the largest rocket of mankind, November. Probably postponed to 2022, Boeing.
                  - The first flight of Terran 1, the most technologically advanced rocket of mankind, well, let's see if robots fail in production, general 3D printing of rocket, tanks, engines.

                  Those. there is nothing yet, and you feed us with promises, without even specifying a deadline - we have already gone through this, so there is no need to repeat ourselves.
                  Quote: donavi49
                  Well, these are actually flight stands. They should explode. Everyone has. I personally think the project is too revolutionary and there are too many problems that cannot be solved.

                  Or maybe these are the mistakes of the designers that the technologists could not fix?
                  Quote: donavi49
                  The union also killed 2 crews

                  How many people died - you probably "forgot" to indicate this for comparison, as well as the cost of the Union and the shuttle.


                  Quote: donavi49
                  Where NASA has transformed from the host of the banquet to the manager of funds and the customer of launch services.

                  They are simply afraid that they will be dispersed for failures, so they found a scheme to rid themselves of this threat.
    3. slipped
      slipped April 16 2021 19: 46
      +4
      Quote: knn54
      By the way, ALL key elements of the RD-180 are protected by American patents belonging to the United States: US Patent 6244041, US Patent 6226980, USPatent 6442931.


      Do not replicate fakes, sucked out of your finger. Blizzard blizzard. In the engine, only a small part has American technology and this part has long been replaced in similar engines of this family. If necessary, completely Russian RD-180MV will be produced.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr April 16 2021 21: 37
        -2
        Quote: slipped
        Do not replicate fakes sucked out of your finger

        A person apparently counts on his "revelations" to buy amateurs, and those who understand what for what, just laugh at such nonsense. We obtained documents on the atomic project from the Americans using agents and sorted them out, and here, even more so, there was no problem.
        Quote: slipped
        If necessary, completely Russian RD-180MV will be produced.

        And no one ever doubted this - not even the Americans, because they understood who they were entrusting with the manufacture of the engine.
  10. Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 16 2021 13: 57
    +4
    Quote: Thrifty
    I just want to swear, there are no other words! So what, then, is the Kremlin's "tough response" to the new US sanctions? ??

    We need engine deals more than the states. Let's save the industry.
    1. GTYCBJYTH2021
      GTYCBJYTH2021 April 16 2021 14: 17
      -7
      Quote: Pavel57
      Quote: Thrifty
      I just want to swear, there are no other words! So what, then, is the Kremlin's "tough response" to the new US sanctions? ??

      We need engine deals more than the states. Let's save the industry.

      With whom are we going to conclude deals on engines? If the Americans refuse, the Ethiopians and South Africa do not need those dviguns ... request
  11. Prax1
    Prax1 April 16 2021 14: 45
    -9
    We have nothing to answer, for this, as always, we will hit Voronezh ...
    1. slipped
      slipped April 16 2021 19: 50
      +4
      Quote: Prax1
      We have nothing to answer, for this, as always, we will hit Voronezh ...


      Oh, by the way, the development of new, already methane, engines is in progress in Voronezh. laughing
  12. Radius
    Radius April 17 2021 05: 14
    0
    The Americans created their own engine, which they had been developing for about 5 years. It didn't work right away. But still they could.
  13. Alex1949
    Alex1949 April 20 2021 09: 48
    0
    There are MANY traitors to Russia who are ready to cooperate with the enemy, who is ready to destroy us with our own hands. And this is energomash. And in general, it is necessary to stop supplying titanium to America and Europe. Then their planes will stop flying, by the way, and missiles too.