Military Review

The date of the first serial deliveries of MC-21 aircraft will be postponed

91

The United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) has confirmed that the date of the first serial deliveries of the MC-21 aircraft will be postponed. It is assumed that the new equipment will be certified in the Russian Federation at the end of this year, and it will be delivered to airlines from next year, 2022.


About this news agency Interfax reported in the press service of the UAC.

They said that the reason for the transfer was trade restrictions under the anti-Russian Western sanctions. First of all, they negatively affected the production of the wing made of composite materials, which were originally planned to be purchased abroad. But the United States imposed sanctions against the Aerocomposite company, which is part of the UAC, thus halting the supply of composites for a new Russian aircraft in 2019. New rules for obtaining export licenses by foreign companies supplying components also became an obstacle to the timely launch of mass production of MC-21.

The delay in the launch of aircraft into production and its reasons were previously reported by Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov during an economic forum in Krasnoyarsk.

We still have a lot of hard work to do to replace up to 40% of the presence of foreign avionics in this flagship project.

- he said.
Photos used:
UAC
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 15 2021 12: 42
    -1
    Again, unfair competition. The market, fair competition, the best must win ... Yeah. The best of the elect, probably? And the chosen ones for some reason with striped ears ...
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 12: 58
      +21
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Again, unfair competition.

      What does the competition have to do with it? The stupidity of the leadership of the aircraft building corporation is evident. They knew very well both about the sanctions, which never stop, and about "unfair competition." But they still hoped that they would be sold something. I would call it not stupidity, but deliberate sabotage.
      1. Andrey Korotkov
        Andrey Korotkov April 15 2021 13: 09
        +13
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        Again, unfair competition.

        What does the competition have to do with it? The stupidity of the leadership of the aircraft building corporation is evident. They knew very well both about the sanctions, which never stop, and about "unfair competition." But they still hoped that they would be sold something. I would call it not stupidity, but deliberate sabotage.

        I argue with you, the development of the MS 21 has been carried out since 2002, there was no real serious sanctions then, the promotion of the aircraft to the market was also abroad, hence the cooperation with foreign companies, the mistake was originally laid down, now we are import substituting sad
        1. unaha
          unaha April 15 2021 13: 23
          +5
          "There was no real question of serious sanctions then" - how delicate. At that time, there was no question of any sanctions at all. And what are the claims to the developers for the consequences of foreign policy force majeure?
          1. Dynamite
            Dynamite April 15 2021 13: 58
            +10
            As for the sanctions, I recently removed the 1999 article from my computer, which stated that the United States imposed sanctions against Russia for cooperation with Iran.
            And it would seem Yeltsin, democracy ...
            1. unaha
              unaha April 15 2021 14: 09
              0
              What does "Yeltsin and Democracy" have to do with it? There were sanctions both before 99 and after. But let's be honest - these were sanctions for specific actions, against specific companies and for political reasons. "unfair competition" has nothing to do with it.
          2. Andrey Korotkov
            Andrey Korotkov April 15 2021 14: 00
            +2
            Quote: unaha
            "There was no real question of serious sanctions then" - how delicate. At that time, there was no question of any sanctions at all. And what are the claims to the developers for the consequences of foreign policy force majeure?

            To the developers, of course, no, in the early 2000s, to continue the closed (1993) due to non-financing of the YAK-242 project practically on an initiative basis for any respect yes
          3. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 14: 32
            0
            Quote: unaha
            At that time, there was no question of any sanctions at all.

            And what is the Jackson-Broom law? Then the law of "Manitsky"
            And you say - no sanctions.
          4. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 14: 36
            0
            Quote: unaha
            And what are the claims to the developers for the consequences of foreign policy force majeure?

            If the question is for me, then I have no complaints about the developers. I spoke about the UAC LEADERSHIP.
          5. keeper03
            keeper03 April 15 2021 20: 29
            +5
            The country needs its planes yesterday, but they are all postponing the deadlines and rushing around with the MS-21, as with a decommissioned bag !!! am There are engines, so put them on the Tu-214 and go on domestic airlines !!! angry We will wait for this MC for 10 years! belay
            And if China imposes sanctions, we will fly on gliders?!? request
          6. Victorio
            Victorio April 16 2021 09: 06
            +1
            Quote: unaha
            "There was no real question of serious sanctions then" - how delicate. At that time, there was no question of any sanctions at all. And what are the claims to the developers for the consequences of foreign policy force majeure?

            ===
            Well, yes, from century to century Western "colleagues and friends" are throwing dirty tricks, and we blame it on force majeure
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 14: 30
          -4
          Quote: Andrey Korotkov
          I will argue with you

          Quote: Andrey Korotkov
          the error was originally incorporated, now we are import substituting sad


          Quote: Krasnoyarsk

          The stupidity of the leadership of the aircraft building corporation is evident. They knew very well both about the sanctions, which never stop, and about "unfair competition."

          I don’t understand, do you argue with me or agree?
          After all, MISTAKES, as you said, from STUPIDITY, as I said, are committed.
          1. Andrey Korotkov
            Andrey Korotkov April 15 2021 14: 46
            +1
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Quote: Andrey Korotkov
            I will argue with you

            Quote: Andrey Korotkov
            the error was originally incorporated, now we are import substituting sad


            Quote: Krasnoyarsk

            The stupidity of the leadership of the aircraft building corporation is evident. They knew very well both about the sanctions, which never stop, and about "unfair competition."

            I don’t understand, do you argue with me or agree?
            After all, MISTAKES, as you said, from STUPIDITY, as I said, are committed.

            hi agreed on almost everything, wanted to argue about what such a stupidity of the leadership of the aviation corps. in 2002-2005? We had composites technologies, their production on a part-scale basis - no, engines for the European Union (certification!) - no, then remember what wave of call for cooperation with * partners * was not only in the media but at the top, moving went from there, and the leaders of the aircraft production are just managers.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 15: 15
              0
              Quote: Andrey Korotkov
              then remember what wave of appeal for cooperation with * partners * was not only in the media but

              And who fanned this wave of cooperation? And the leadership of the UAC took a bite. Fools, however, or pests.
              See my answer to Vladimir61
              1. Andrey Korotkov
                Andrey Korotkov April 15 2021 15: 40
                0
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Quote: Andrey Korotkov
                then remember what wave of appeal for cooperation with * partners * was not only in the media but

                And who fanned this wave of cooperation? And the leadership of the UAC took a bite. Fools, however, or pests.
                See my answer to Vladimir61

                Ok, I'll see, it's hard to scroll through all the comments from a smartphone at work hi
              2. Andrey Korotkov
                Andrey Korotkov April 15 2021 16: 06
                0
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Quote: Andrey Korotkov
                then remember what wave of appeal for cooperation with * partners * was not only in the media but

                And who fanned this wave of cooperation? And the leadership of the UAC took a bite. Fools, however, or pests.
                See my answer to Vladimir61

                My friend, your answer to Vladimir61 was at 15:11, I answered you at 14:46 the same thing, our controversy with you began at 13:09 and ended at 14:46 with your fu duo.ak, I see no point in our further conversation ...
        3. Fitter65
          Fitter65 April 15 2021 16: 52
          +5
          Quote: Andrey Korotkov
          I argue with you, the development of the MS 21 has been carried out since 2002, there was no real serious sanctions then, the promotion of the aircraft to the market was also abroad, hence the cooperation with foreign companies, the mistake was originally laid down, now we are import substituting

          So the Il-96 was destroyed. As there striped penguins suggested - in short, why bother to develop your own, take it from us and certify it. Certified with their equipment and engines, they were going to establish production. We will buy Schaska as we start to make a good flight, but here we will not supply you with equipment, and we will not sell the engines, and that's it. And over the years of perestroika, the instrument-making industry was finished, the production of various aviation equipment was finished, and that's it. Where is our IL-96? With the Superjet, almost the same eggs are only seen from the side. The Italians were the first to throw the passenger compartment, the Americans imposed a ban on deliveries to Iran and a number of countries, and you have our equipment, the French, the engine, no spare parts are not serviced. Here you have a lot of money in the country, everything you need, we will buy it! The only question is, who will sell you and for what price?
        4. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock April 15 2021 18: 21
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Korotkov
          I argue with you, the development of the MS 21 has been carried out since 2002, there was no real serious sanctions then, the promotion of the aircraft to the market was also abroad, hence the cooperation with foreign companies, the mistake was originally laid down, now we are import substituting

          It is always like this with us, the replacement of the "corn-maker" was designed by TVS 2 DTS. As a result, they are now redesigning.
      2. Vladimir61
        Vladimir61 April 15 2021 14: 19
        +10
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        I would call this not stupidity, but deliberate sabotage.

        So let's ask to close Ural Boeing Manufacturing 2, a plant in the Urals, with a foreign investment of $ 5,5 billion, where high-tech industrial equipment Makino (Japan) and Fives (USA) are installed. After all, Boeing receives from Russia 35% of titanium for civil aircraft, maintains in our country the largest engineering center outside the United States and two plants for processing titanium billets. The cost of the company's procurement programs in Russia reaches $ 27 billion.
        It is possible to refuse from other similar projects ... What does it cost us to build a house!
        Or, after all, to make the most of such an opportunity to modernize the country's ditched industry?
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 15: 11
          -3
          Quote: Vladimir61

          So let's ask to close Ural Boeing Manufacturing 2, a plant in the Urals, with a foreign investment of $ 5,5 billion, where

          And you do not confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs. The implementation of the project for this plant was beneficial not only to us, but also to mattress mats in the first place.
          Why didn't they build a plant for the production of composite wings for the MC? And the management of the UAC rushed to develop and create its own production of composites only after the mattress toppers and the Japanese stopped supplying them.
          I do not think that the UAC leadership was very surprised by this fact. But they began to act only when the rooster pecked in the ass.
          But they were taught - "Trust in God, but do not make a mistake yourself." Forgot about it? Or..?
          So thoughts come - either - fools or pests.
      3. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 15 2021 14: 55
        +3
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        What does the competition have to do with it? The stupidity of the leadership of the aircraft building corporation is evident. They knew very well both about the sanctions, which never stop, and about "unfair competition."

        good All right
        I always wonder why there are individuals on the site trying to protest against the obvious with the arguments of "cockroach logic" (a decapitated insect dies of hunger, since together with its head it loses the opportunity to eat, but if a cockroach had a bite shortly before the execution, it will live about three weeks).
        ==========
        On the delay in launching aircraft into production and its reasons earlier said by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov during the economic forum in Krasnoyarsk.
        We still have a lot of hard work to do to replace up to 40% of the presence of foreign avionics in this flagship project.

        And even earlier, BEFORE, this uncle was:
        Attention!
        On July 2, 2008, he was appointed Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation. In this position supervised the target program for the development of radio electronics and supported the development and implementation of the GLONASS satellite system.

        And now, just 13 years later, it turned out that the Russian industry can only:

        It turns out that 40% of electronic equipment was tried to be created with the help of a chisel and some kind of mother ... Maybe for Russian inventors there is not enough apple tree and a bath with water?
        1. Kamarada
          Kamarada April 16 2021 15: 23
          +1
          In Russia, people are smart and smart. But the leadership and power are stupid. Greed and stupidity. No enemies do not need to do everything themselves.
      4. bayard
        bayard April 15 2021 15: 10
        0
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        The stupidity of the leadership of the aircraft building corporation is evident.

        It is impossible to deliver any other verdict ... And not because they did not take into account possible and very probable sanctions, but because despite such a possibility and even an ALREADY FACT of these sanctions FOR ALL KINDS OF COMPONENTS for the aviation industry, this same Yuri Borisov said at the end of the past ... and even at the beginning of this year that SERIAL PRODUCTION of MC-21 aircraft had already begun ... And it was clear to everyone who monitored the situation that nothing would work - there would be no serial production, when about 50% of all components - imported ...
        Power should not ... It has no right to be funny ...
        But she's funny.
        Ridiculously grotesque.
        They don't do that in their right mind.
        So sane people are not substituted ...
        What's going on there? That they behave like broken robots? ...
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        I would call this not stupidity, but deliberate sabotage.

        So after all, they did harm, they were smarter before ... well, they did not expose themselves to be complete ... inadequate ...
        Somehow they acted more sophisticated ... more conspiratorially, or something ...
        ... So Shoigu was "surprised" that their dock is not being built ... the aircraft carrier is not being repaired ... a nuclear cruiser ... without accessories ... It's amazing ... Everything was good, and then rrraz - and bad ... smile
        And Red Sun has only one concern - ... vaccination ... belay
        From a non-existent disease ... when the absence in nature (!) Of this fashionable virus has been proven (!) In court ... In a European court ... IN GENERAL, such a strain has not been isolated ...
        Not the economy, not the defense (real, not maneuvers) ... not the welfare of citizens ...
        How many songs have been sung about the future of civil aviation in the Russian Federation and ... bam ... surprise request ... it still turns out that 40% of the components need to be replaced with domestic ones ... and not some rivets-nuts - avionics ... despite the fact that they made their own carbon ... resins ... that's not clear with resins - according to one information they could not, according to another, bravura - they could, they surpassed those who had no analogues ...
        ... The authorities should not ... have no right to be funny ...
        But she's funny.
        And it is very sad.
      5. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter April 15 2021 18: 39
        +1
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        What does the competition have to do with it

        Moreover! When did development start? With what aim? And what engines were laid? And when it really began to loom the ousting of Boeings from the Russian market (albeit in the medium term), restrictions and sanctions rained down ... Is it really not clear why? How many countries in the world are capable of producing liners? Russia is one of them.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon April 15 2021 13: 14
      +11
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Again, unfair competition.

      We stuck in the WTO with attempts, and we were assured that everything was fair there.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman April 15 2021 13: 26
        +2
        Quote: Piramidon
        that everything is fair

        And there it may be that everything is honest. Not for everyone. For exclusive only.
      2. Rubi0
        Rubi0 April 15 2021 13: 44
        +4
        The question is why, within the framework of the same WTO, there are no legal proceedings on the legality of the American sanctions? At least for the information hype
        1. unaha
          unaha April 15 2021 13: 54
          +6
          Because the WTO primarily regulates the conditions for restricting imports to its market. And it cannot influence export in any way. Those. the WTO cannot force you to sell anything if you are not willing.
    3. jeka424
      jeka424 April 15 2021 13: 31
      +2
      And who prevented from doing his own? It's also difficult to come up with something, it's easier to come up with a new fine or tax
      1. Niko
        Niko April 15 2021 13: 35
        +2
        Quote: jeka424
        And who prevented from doing his own? It's also difficult to come up with something, it's easier to come up with a new fine or tax

        Doing something of your own is, unfortunately, the last thing that usually comes to mind in one sentence with the words "Russian industry" (as well as DOING in general, and then everyone around is to blame)
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 15 2021 15: 04
        +2
        Quote: jeka424
        And who prevented from doing his own? It's hard to come up with something, it's easier to come up with a new fine or tax

        Created by the EBN regime and continued GDP, the Russian economy accepts only production (enterprises, holdings, moldings, buildings, etc. crap), where a quick profit is possible: trade (!!!), trade for currency (!!!!!), currency trade and money (banking) (!!!!!) ... Everything else develops according to the leftover principle (what is left of the cuts). wassat
      3. Cosm22
        Cosm22 April 15 2021 15: 37
        +5
        The fact that this should be done is hindered. Work with convolutions and hands.
        And not forever sit on the Soviet legacy, endlessly modernize something, modify, announce and substitute import.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik April 15 2021 19: 16
          +1
          Just a video about Yakovlev's planes.
      4. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 15 2021 16: 41
        +2
        Quote: jeka424
        And who prevented from doing his own? It's also difficult to come up with something, it's easier to come up with a new fine or tax

        Economic efficiency.
        It's one thing to buy components for composites from a company that manufactures them for the whole world and keeps the price low due to the volume. And another thing is to build a plant producing these components ourselves, on a much smaller scale and at a much higher cost. And all this is ultimately included in the prime cost of the aircraft.
    4. PROXOR
      PROXOR April 15 2021 15: 32
      -2
      And Boeing 737s fall for them))))
    5. Barberry25
      Barberry25 April 16 2021 14: 37
      -1
      they are worse off ... ours will finish the plane anyway, but at the same time this plane will ALREADY be ready for sale in Iran ... In general, our industry will say thank you
  2. Vadim237
    Vadim237 April 15 2021 12: 47
    +8
    Success to all creators and producers of MC 21 in import substitution.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell April 15 2021 12: 52
      +15
      Quote: Vadim237
      Success to all creators and producers of MC 21 in import substitution.

      And patience and perseverance for those who will promote its certification.
      Russia should fly on its own planes, and it shouldn't be superfluous to sell either ...
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 April 15 2021 12: 56
        -8
        Well, one competitor MC 21 seems to have flown off the Boeing 737MAX.
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell April 15 2021 13: 14
          +12
          Quote: Vadim237
          one competitor MC 21 seems to have flown off the Boeing 737MAX.

          Sorry, but this is not serious: if the MC can move the 737/320 on its territory, it will be a great success. The operators of course screwed up with MAX, but throwing it off the run is not realistic, let's be realistic. And technical support from Boeing / Airbus is at a very high level
        2. donavi49
          donavi49 April 15 2021 13: 14
          +14
          Well, on the other hand, the Americans will knock on everyone who orders the MC-21 / SSZh. As well as for the S-400 / Su. Therefore, with export, everything is so-so.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell April 15 2021 13: 20
            +9
            Quote: donavi49
            But the Americans will knock on everyone ... Therefore, with exports, everything is so-so.

            They will undoubtedly shit on the advancement of the MCa / SSJ on all fronts, but this must be done, otherwise you can forget about your aircraft building - competencies, in modern terms, will be completely lost
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 April 15 2021 13: 34
              +9
              Well, the fundamental problem remains - modern technology pays off on circulations in excess of the needs of Russia and on a large coverage of maintenance, related services, banking, etc.

              If you work in a hard minus, then there will be a general degradation and stagnation. She will come in the absence of calls. That is, when it is clear that there is no competition, companies will buy under government pressure, and others will not buy because of the US threats, then why improve the board? If it is still bought by 100, not 110, not 30, but 100, and the money for this is included in the budget.

              And again we will come to the conclusion that it is unprofitable to operate our own and we will have to subsidize tickets or drive empty planes.
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell April 15 2021 14: 30
                +2
                Quote: donavi49
                modern technology pays off on circulations in excess of the needs of Russia and on a large coverage of maintenance, related services, banking, etc.
                So plow the unplowed field, after-sales service - the eternal mazol of the aviation industry
                Quote: donavi49
                again we will come to the conclusion that it is unprofitable to exploit our own and we will have to subsidize tickets or drive empty planes.
                This topic affects "Spectacular" managers - most of it must be driven: sitting on the state budget is not doing business. In the end, invite smart ones, albeit for a lot of money. This is not a normal situation: a country with such a size and the ability to produce aircraft is not able to provide itself with air transportation.
          2. Synoid
            Synoid April 15 2021 14: 15
            0
            These woodpeckers began to sound like Chinese warnings with their knocking.
            Well, there are countries that will buy an airplane if it is not worse than its competitors.
            And if it is competitive, then perhaps the list will expand. B - British Commonwealth and Occupied Vassals only.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 April 15 2021 15: 57
              +1
              There are already 21 firm orders at MC 290.
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell April 15 2021 16: 17
                +2
                Quote: Vadim237
                There are already 21 firm orders at MC 290.

                This is good news, but at the same time it is necessary to create a support infrastructure, to tighten up logistics ... And again: the announced rates of release are not encouraging - it will not be easy even to squeeze out your territory
          3. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A April 15 2021 20: 23
            +1
            Quote: donavi49
            Well, on the other hand, the Americans will knock on everyone who orders the MC-21 / SSZh. As well as for the S-400 / Su. Therefore, with export, everything is so-so.


            It was simply not necessary to put all the eggs (the military-industrial complex and the civil aircraft industry) in one basket.
            Now we are reaping the benefits.
            Sanctions do not go directly to MS-21 - they go to Irkut as a manufacturer, in that 99,99% of its production is military equipment.
        3. Alisher
          Alisher April 16 2021 07: 51
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          it seems like the Boeing 737MAX flew off.

          In December 2020, he seemed to be allowed to fly, the pilots must go through additional. training. The system automatically lowered the nose of the aircraft, under three conditions (flaps, angle of attack and speed), but the pilots did not know about it.
      2. Vlad5307
        Vlad5307 April 15 2021 13: 10
        +10
        To begin with, it is necessary to squeeze out all imported aircraft from domestic lines by all possible means and start with a sharp restriction of the possibility of purchasing them abroad, and saturating domestic lines with our own with simultaneous promotion abroad. And MS certification will be in every possible way to interfere and refuse simply under far-fetched pretexts - the West has never suffered from conscientiousness.
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell April 15 2021 13: 24
          +13
          Quote: Vlad5307
          it is necessary to start with a sharp limitation of the possibility of their purchase abroad, and saturation of internal lines with their own with the simultaneous advancement abroad .... The West has never suffered from conscientiousness.

          I sat down at the table to play with cheaters - keep the candelabrum at hand and be ready to use ...
          With the announced rates of release - to squeeze your market
        2. Genry
          Genry April 15 2021 13: 38
          +5
          Quote: Vlad5307
          And MS certification will be in every possible way to interfere and refuse simply under far-fetched pretexts - the West has never suffered from conscientiousness.

          It will receive Russian certification without problems by the end of 2021. You must first ensure your own market, then it will reach the foreign one. Sanctions like: the United States and satellites cannot sell planes to Iran and .... - they will help us.
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 April 15 2021 14: 03
            +5
            They will help, but there is a small problem. There are few such countries and they are poor.

            Well, for example:
            - CAR - how many planes can you sell there? Ah and pay in the depths, first get it. Plus, there are the main deposits (gold, diamonds, ores, copper) in the unrecognized sultanate - and they will have to fight seriously (but the UN will not give - in fact, there, all this giant contingent of peacekeepers separates Islamists from the sultanate and Christians from another part of the country = otherwise if there was a vigorous massacre, the banned IS is resting, the Tutsis / Hutu come out of the top of genocides).
            - Syria - again, everything is clear with payment.
            - Iran - if they agree, they will fulfill the contracts for Watermelons and Boeings, they will have enough for a long time. If they do not agree and the sanctions are back, then there will be no money for MC21. Plus, China again recently signed mega-contracts there.
            - Myanmar - will have to butt with China in the market if serious sanctions are introduced. And they just have their aircraft completing certification. And the Chinese pace there is planning 50+ aircraft annually, the MS-21 will be so produced by the year 30, and that is not a fact.


            Who else? The Sudanese are under the Saudis, they will resolve the issues. The Houthis will have to liberate the country from the interventionists for another 10 years. Pakistan - near China, especially taking into account the PAC enterprise, according to the knurled one, they can organize a SKD C919 and gradually increase localization, reducing the price.
            1. Genry
              Genry April 15 2021 16: 12
              +1
              "Nobody says it will be easy."
              The countries that you listed, in fact, have a very limited range of goods with which they can pay, so they will not be able to import everything from only one country, since not every exporter can consume all the "payment" (plane for bananas ??? ). China, of course, can digest more than Russia, but it will be turned back from too much.
      3. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 15 2021 15: 09
        +1
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        Russia should fly on its own planes, well, selling is also not superfluous ...

        good To start!
        Russia should produce the final product (finished product) regardless of any sanctions or the termination of supplies. It is time to end the development of MOSCOW and begin to develop regional mutual economic cooperation, when the CMEA member countries are replaced by the regions of the Russian Federation. Stop artificially lowering the intelligence of Russians.
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell April 15 2021 16: 12
          +2
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Russia must produce the final product (finished product) regardless of any sanctions or the termination of supplies ...

          In the case of aviation, the end product is not just an aircraft: a complete training system, engineering support and mandatory after-sales service - parts and quickly. Let's be honest: Russia is still in respect in the aviation world, but one cannot rest on its laurels of past merits: time has passed.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Stop artificially lowering the intelligence of Russians.
          A global problem and it is necessary to fight this infection globally, there is no simple solution
    2. Sandor Clegane
      Sandor Clegane April 15 2021 13: 24
      +9
      Quote: Vadim237
      Success to all creators and producers of MC 21

      and saddle them our, your market
      By the way, why are all flights through Moscow in the country ??? from Voronezh to Astrakhan - via Moscow, is that not normal?
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk April 15 2021 15: 31
        +3
        [quote = Sandor Clegane]
        By the way, why are all flights through Moscow in the country ??? from Voronezh to Astrakhan - through Moscow, is that not normal? [/ quot
        Well, what's incomprehensible? To make the flight from Voronezh to Astrakhan not to the carrier, but to you, more cost.
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell April 15 2021 16: 22
          +1
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Quote: Sandor Clegane

          By the way, why are all flights through Moscow in the country ??? from Voronezh to Astrakhan - via Moscow, is that not normal?

          Well, what's incomprehensible? To make the flight from Voronezh to Astrakhan not to the carrier, but to you, more cost.

          Carriers should think about it: Western lowcosters are looking at the Russian Federation with appetite, and if not for the 14th year, they would have already offered their services not so modestly as now: the choice would be to customers
  3. Woodman
    Woodman April 15 2021 12: 51
    -3
    to replace up to 40% of the presence of foreign on-board equipment
    What size should a roasted rooster peck so that the designers begin to create equipment based on the nomenclature of domestic components and so that, according to the project's requests, they begin to create domestic equipment, without waiting for the supply to be closed. In the end, it is possible, following the example of China, without giving a damn about ethics and agreements, to copy the necessary equipment, even if only for domestic use in Russia.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee April 15 2021 13: 07
      +3
      Quote: Lesovik
      size gotta peck roasted cock

      And ten years have not passed! Almost "immediately" guessed! recourse
  4. yehat2
    yehat2 April 15 2021 12: 58
    +7
    New rules for obtaining export licenses by foreign companies supplying components also became an obstacle to the timely launch of mass production of the MC-21.

    but I remember that 2 years ago they reported that THESE difficulties had already been overcome.
    the same applies to composites - our production facilities were launched before the announcement of the start of production.
    something, but no, EVERYTHING does not agree in what the official announced.
    Those components, such as navigation systems or a fuel system or seats that remained imported, were not sanctioned.
  5. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 April 15 2021 13: 04
    -1
    We still have a lot of hard work to do to replace up to 40% of the presence of foreign avionics in this flagship project.

    This is the result of the work of the Medvedev government of the liberals, which relied on partners who arranged such a scam for the civil aviation of Russia. For such a trick, they could attend to the parallel development of their on-board equipment, like composites for the wing, but Russian liberals for the West are suckers, not to be thrown, it is beneath their dignity as jeltmen.
  6. zloybond
    zloybond April 15 2021 13: 14
    -3
    It seems that ours agreed with the Americans to put pressure on certain places, and we gradually mastered or restored technologies and gradually replaced everything with domestic ones, so that other manufacturers had no chances. Again - now it is necessary to remember forever - who remained a faithful partner and did not let down, and who jumped aside on the orders of the owner from Washington and watched as Russia overcomes the kidok. Such partners must forever make a stop list to work in Russia. Well, in Russia, almost everything will have to be done domestically, so that most likely Western partners are left alone with their reflection in the mirror and their unnecessary goods to Russia.
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A April 15 2021 20: 52
      0
      Quote: zloybond
      It seems that ours agreed with the Americans to put pressure on certain places, and we gradually mastered or restored technologies and gradually replaced everything with domestic ones, so that other manufacturers had no chances. Again - now it is necessary to remember forever - who remained a faithful partner and did not let down, and who jumped aside on the orders of the owner from Washington and watched as Russia overcomes the kidok. Such partners must forever make a stop list to work in Russia. Well, in Russia, almost everything will have to be done domestically, so that most likely Western partners are left alone with their reflection in the mirror and their unnecessary goods to Russia.


      It is a global misconception that by developing our production, we are developing something for the country.
      Yes, we create our planes and our engines.
      But ...
      The MS-21 project plus the PD-14 project has already cost the country (yes, the country, since it paid for all R&D) in the amount of 1 trillion rubles. Moreover, most of it was the one that cost 30-35 rubles per dollar.
      Which is many times more expensive than the cost of the same R&D for direct competitors, Boeing / Airbus or PrattWitney / GE engines.
      These are exorbitant amounts that will never pay off.
      Since the sale of aircraft will be very limited.
      And these planes and these engines will not be just gold, just platinum in essence.

      And our country has many such unprofitable projects, both in aviation and in many other areas.

      And they, like hardened economists who in fact plunged the Soviet Union into bankruptcy, take their steps according to one very simple scheme.
      They do not interfere with spending money on new expensive projects, they even "help" in some way ...
      But up to the level of readiness of 90-95%.
      And then they start to overlap the "faucet".

      This was the case with the Soviet Union, when we were allowed to finish building a radar station near Krasnoyarsk, spend billions, and only then poke our noses into non-compliance with contracts and we had to destroy 95% of the built radar station.
      Those. we spent billions, which we then buried.
      Likewise, SSD-100, MS-21 and many other global projects.
      Armata is not being built due to sanctions.
      Ships are not built due to sanctions (engines).
      Billions (tens, hundreds) were spent - and then sanctions are imposed and Czech machines suddenly stop ...
      And all this increases the total costs by three or four times.
      Redesigned redesign. Etc.
      And we don't have much money.
      To continue the development of one - you need to "take away" this money in another place.
      And how to continue to live - HZ.
      They ride us like kittens on all fronts.
      Nord Stream 2 is the same bullshit. We did 95%, spent almost 10 billion dollars and strangled us ... Yes, half of the money was given to Gazprom by foreigners ... but! They gave Gazprom - they will take it away from it!

      The Turkish stream was built for $ 20 billion, and it will not pay off even in 50 years, the losses of Gazprom and the country (and it compensates for the losses of Gazprom, since it is a backbone enterprise) - $ 14 billion !!! Gas suddenly became unnecessary !!!
      Here all the time there is some kind of scam, and ours "do not need to deceive me, I myself am glad to be deceived."
      It's a shame damn for the people and the country.
      1. zloybond
        zloybond April 15 2021 21: 38
        -2
        Those. Would you rather not rebuild yours but bow down ????
        The restoration of the industry only pleases me. Especially - these are jobs.
        But the fact that a country with a huge budget surplus is proudly borrowing abroad - while lending to others (and then writing off debts) is not good. It is not encouraging that we are proudly exchanging petrodollars (in fact, IOUs) for rubles at a humiliating rate, because it is so profitable to fill the budget. With such a patriotic approach to the exchange rate of the national currency, the economic bloc should adorn the honor roll somewhere in a pre-trial detention center. To zero the ruble exchange rate professionally is very "patriotic". It is so proud to humiliate our country with money - to exchange those who dream of tearing up our economy for bills of paper. I think a monument should be erected to the economic minister of Russia in America. After all, every night at night he probably falls asleep with the hope that the ruble still has room to fall.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A April 15 2021 21: 56
          +4
          Quote: zloybond
          Those. Would you rather not rebuild yours but bow down ????
          The restoration of the industry only pleases me. Especially - these are jobs.


          How far away you are from the real production sphere.
          Forget jobs.
          You now need designers of avionics, hydraulics, and many more.
          You will recruit 100 jobs in design institutes, and give them jobs that they will do for 5-7 years.
          Excellent.
          But what will you do with thousands and tens of thousands of assembly workers?
          Dvigatelists, aircraft assemblers?
          They will have to wait these 5-7 years until they wait for our new avionics or hydraulics?
          No, they want to eat 3 times a day.
          And they will leave these enterprises and leave.
          Will be gone once and for all.
          I participated indirectly in attempts to revive the 18 aircraft factory. This is the same Kuibyshev aircraft plant, which assembled and repaired Tu-154, Tu-95, Tu-142, etc.
          So, already in 2002 - almost no one returned to the plant!
          After some 5-7 years, no one returned!

          Manufacturing is not a computer game!
          Everything must be done in parallel!
          And engines, and avionics, and hydraulics and landing gear, and a glider.
          You cannot do one thing and wait for it to come in handy.

          And therefore, it is criminal to be glad that by recruiting a hundred designers, you will create jobs! For you must understand that you will lose tens of thousands of other jobs!


          I do not know what is the way out of this situation.
          I see that the situation is just stalemate.
          And I see that it is artificially created.
          And that the result is more than deplorable.
          It seems to be development that leads to complete defeat.
          Great term "Pyrrhic victory".

          It really hurts me to see this!
          My country is simply being destroyed and destroyed.
          And it is precisely those people who shout loudest about "victories", "lifting from their knees" and other nonsense.
          Their cry and the actual state of the economy are two completely opposite things ...
          To tears!
          1. zloybond
            zloybond April 15 2021 22: 08
            0
            You can certainly grieve. But when driving through small towns, I periodically see that some mechanical factories, factories and factories that were previously idle open doors, recruit workers, receive orders, and begin production. Yes, somewhere it squeaks. It's all the more fun to erase the circus with the new cornman without fools. There is nothing further than talk. And this is not a super plane! Chew and see.
  7. Trickster
    Trickster April 15 2021 13: 22
    +5
    In the end, it is possible, following the example of China, without giving a damn about ethics and agreements, to copy the necessary equipment, even if only for domestic use in Russia.

    Firstly, real sanctions will come for this. And secondly. in order to copy something, you must have an element base and scientific specialists, in Russia there is neither the first nor the second.
  8. iouris
    iouris April 15 2021 13: 30
    0
    Find the differences between SP-2 and MS-21.
    1. Martian
      Martian April 15 2021 14: 01
      +1
      There are differences - there are gas thieves, and here are aviation ...
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 April 15 2021 16: 00
        -1
        If there were thieves, there would be no projects and the final product.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A April 15 2021 21: 09
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          If there were thieves, there would be no projects and the final product.


          There is nothing better than a long-term project, the creation of which always raises a million problems. Moreover, external problems. You can foresee them and change the whole system - but you deliberately do not do this ... Since then you heroically overcome "sudden" problems, get bonuses, bonuses, regalia, etc.
          This is a common example of post-Soviet corporate business.
          This happens in our military-industrial complex in the overwhelming case.
          Precisely post-Soviet, because in real private business this is unrealistic.
          I have been working for a private owner for 30 years - if I needed an exit on the weekend, it must be something extraordinary.
          For example, practically all Samara factories related to engine building, such as Motorostroitel, Kuznetsov, have reduced a huge number of personnel.
          But ...

          Particularly responsible people write plans that life will end without work on Saturdays.
          The plant will stop, the subcontractors will "fly away", the plan will be thwarted.
          And so the "right people" go out for double pay on Saturday.
          But for a shortened day!
          But!
          They don't do anything.
          Since the same transport workers, the same galvanizers, the same calculators-controllers - no one has planned an exit on Saturdays.
          Simple fraud and imitation of violent activity.
          Complete zero for results.
          But the payment was multiple to many of the right people passed.
          And then we think where the shop manager got from - 30 shifts a month with a bill of 500 thousand rubles.
  9. Svarog
    Svarog April 15 2021 13: 35
    +5
    The date of the first serial deliveries of MC-21 aircraft will be postponed

    Who would doubt that..
  10. Free wind
    Free wind April 15 2021 13: 54
    +2
    Make your plane better than your competitors. Brazilians do and do not whine about this, that they have the Queen of England and Baden shit.
    1. iouris
      iouris April 15 2021 14: 20
      +3
      These are not Brazilians, but Boeing.
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell April 15 2021 16: 28
        +1
        Quote: iouris
        These are not Brazilians, but Boeing.

        Boeing only got attached to the civil aviation division, but a financial failure due to MAXs ruined this deal crying
  11. Martian
    Martian April 15 2021 14: 00
    0
    ------------------------ 40% of foreign components? But what about earlier statements that the MS-21 is a Russian component? Isn't it time to shoot some officials and managers?
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A April 15 2021 21: 15
      +1
      Quote: Martian
      ------------------------ 40% of foreign components? But what about earlier statements that the MS-21 is a Russian component? Isn't it time to shoot some officials and managers?

      There are generally 80% of foreign components.
      Just 40% is the figure that takes into account the new Russian wings and keel, as well as engines.
      All avionics, interior, wiring, hydraulics remain imported.
  12. Soldatov V.
    Soldatov V. April 15 2021 14: 16
    -7
    There are TU-154, military aircraft why not remove the equipment from them and replace imported ones. By weight, the difference is not fatal, mainly electronics, the chassis is generally three times stronger, In principle, we flew without an autopilot. itself, especially in length we have half the world.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 15 2021 16: 00
      +1
      Because it is physically and morally outdated for a long time.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A April 15 2021 21: 18
      +2
      Quote: V.
      There are TU-154, military aircraft why not remove the equipment from them and replace imported ones. By weight, the difference is not fatal, mainly electronics, the chassis is generally three times stronger, In principle, we flew without an autopilot. itself, especially in length we have half the world.


      Find now a modern civil aviation pilot who can fly the entire 3-5-8-12 hour flight - to fly "in hand"!

      Let me remind you for analogy and associative series that only 20-25% of the available military pilots of generations 4, 4+, 4 ++ fighters are capable of performing the full range of tasks on 5th generation aircraft ...
      1. Soldatov V.
        Soldatov V. April 16 2021 09: 10
        0
        In civil aviation, do not forget two pilots. When I flew as a passenger on the IL-18 for 8-10 hours I saw one of the pilots warm up in the cabin and smoke in the vestibule. or not to put the presidential IL-34 on the MS-96? There is everything rossiyskoe. Like Marshal Novikov said "where aviation begins, order ends."
  13. Dikson
    Dikson April 15 2021 15: 19
    0
    In general, it was understandable .. - no one will launch anything in this country .. just build and master! Mastering, designing and modernizing for 20 years - this is the strategy of success ... None of the country's leadership is interested in the appearance of their own high-tech products in our country .. - but how then can you make money on kickbacks and contracts with the bourgeoisie?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 15 2021 16: 02
      -1
      The plane has not yet fully passed certification - and you whiners already understand something.
  14. zwlad
    zwlad April 15 2021 16: 28
    +1
    Quote: bayard
    From a non-existent disease ...

    Well, you give!
    And people probably die from the flu?
  15. Aviator_
    Aviator_ April 15 2021 22: 16
    +1
    All clear. There is no own composite yet, and there is no other way to make the MC-21.
  16. Moonsund
    Moonsund April 16 2021 07: 38
    +1
    At least once, one single case, tell me, please, when something was done on time. Either planning is mediocre junk, or you want to report losing your pants. I don't want to think about the third option (the collapse has reached such an extent that there is no system and at every stage, you have to do it on your knees and correct it)
  17. ramzay21
    ramzay21 April 16 2021 09: 35
    0
    A very necessary plane, would rather start flying in our sky
  18. AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship April 17 2021 01: 54
    0
    Russia 3-4 years ago received a fig with butter from the United States in response to an application for permission to sell Sszh-1000 to Iran. Ostensibly because it contains American components. And what, managers are so limited in the UAC that they could not think that the same would be expected for the new MC-21?
  19. Basarev
    Basarev April 17 2021 08: 46
    0
    And they said that it was completely domestic.