Military Review

Armata platform and its engine

126

The main tank T-14 on the Armata platform. Photo by NPK "UVZ"


On the basis of the universal tracked platform "Armata", three models of military equipment for various purposes have already been created, and new unified vehicles may appear in the future. A number of unified units and systems are used in existing and anticipated projects, incl. power point. The latter was created specifically for the Armata platform and should ensure the achievement of high technical characteristics.

Platform and its engine


The program for the development of a promising platform and armored vehicles based on it was launched in mid-2011.The main design work took several years, and already in May 2015, the first open demonstration of armored vehicles of a pilot industrial batch took place. In the same period, a long process of testing, refinement and preparation for a full-scale series began.

The basic platform "Armata" was equipped with a unified power plant built on modern units. Its parameters were selected taking into account the need to ensure high mobility characteristics of various equipment with a different layout and combat weight. Depending on the design features of the armored vehicle, the power plant can be placed in the bow or stern of the hull.


Diesel engine V-92 used on tank T-90. Photo "ChTZ-Uraltrak"

The power plant "Armata" is made on the basis of the 12N360 engine (designations A-85-3A and 2B-12-3A are also known), produced by the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant "ChTZ-Uraltrak". Curiously, the engine is several years older than the universal platform. According to some reports, such an engine was created for the promising Object 195 tank, but this project did not progress beyond testing.

In the 12s, the development organization began to openly show the new engine at military-technical and industrial exhibitions. At that time, the direct connection of this product with the tank industry was not confirmed. 360НXNUMX was positioned as a motor for special-purpose vehicles and equipment for the oil and gas industry.

Later it became known about the use of the A-85-3A in the project of a promising armored platform. Such engines were to be used on all models of the family and provide high energy parameters - regardless of purpose, layout, combat weight, etc.

New solutions


The 12N360 engine has 12 cylinders and is built in an X-shaped scheme, which made it possible to reduce dimensions and weight. The length of the product is 900 mm with a width of 1,8 m and a height of 830 mm. Dry weight - 1,5 tons. Thus, the new engine is more compact, but heavier than previous V-shaped tank engines, such as the B-92.


Engine for special machines and installations 12Н360. Photo Gurkhan.blogspot.com

The engine is a four-stroke engine and can use different types of liquid fuel. Cylinders with a total volume of approx. 35 liters have a direct injection system. Turbocharging is used in the form of two gas turbine superchargers serving half of the cylinders. The cylinder block is cooled by liquid. There is an intercooling of the charge air.

The 12N360 engine initially had variable maximum power. The first modification, depending on the mode, could produce from 800 to 1500 hp. at 1800-2100 rpm In the future, it was reported about plans to boost the engine with the achievement of 1800 hp. and keeping the turnover at the same level.

Thus, when installed on vehicles of the Armata family with a combat weight of 50 tons, the A-85-3A engine provides a specific power from 16 to 36 hp. per ton. The optimal value of this parameter is considered to be 25 hp. per ton, and the new engine retains a significant margin of performance for further upgrades.

Armata platform and its engine

12Н360 at a later exhibition. Photo "ChTZ-Uraltrak"

A mechanical transmission with robotic gear shifting is interlocked with the engine. Its main unit is a central gearbox with integrated reverse. The box has 8 gears, and the reverse allows you to use them when moving forward and backward. Thus, in fact, 16 forward and reverse speeds are provided.

The engine, transmission and other units of the power plant are made in the form of a single unit, fixed in the engine compartment of the MBT or other armored vehicle. In the event of a breakdown, it is possible to remove the entire unit and install a new one. These procedures, when using a repair and recovery vehicle, take about half an hour.

Benefits of novelty


Due to the new power plant, the unified Armata platform has significant advantages over the armored vehicles of older models - both in terms of basic technical characteristics and in terms of project development and subsequent operation.


View from a different angle. Photo Vpk.name

First of all, it should be recalled that the domestic armored vehicles will receive 1500 hp engines for the first time. or more. This will give an obvious increase in mobility and flotation, as well as affect overall efficiency. At the same time, power density and specific fuel consumption have improved in comparison with older diesel engines.

12Н360 is more flexible in its application. By setting the required maximum power, it will be possible to adapt it to the requirements of a specific combat or auxiliary vehicle and obtain an optimal ratio of characteristics. Accordingly, equipment of different types can be equipped with a unified engine, and not only within the framework of one platform.

At the stage of development


Over the past several years, various stages of testing of various types of equipment on the basis of the Armata platform have been going on. It is known about the existence of a number of main tanks, heavy infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers on a common chassis with a unified power plant.


Power block "Armata" assembled. Shot from shopping mall "Military acceptance", shopping mall "Zvezda"

According to the known data, sea trials of such equipment pass, in general, without significant difficulties. In the recent past, the Ministry of Defense has repeatedly published spectacular footage of tanks at full speed, powered by 12N360 engines and other new units. However, as far as is known, during the tests, certain features and shortcomings were identified that require correction.

In the wake of the Army-2019 forum, it was reported that a promising engine for the Armata in terms of efficiency, heat transfer, resource, etc. inferior to modern foreign models, and this does not suit the military. At that time, it was proposed to consider the possibility of using a different engine. However, in the future, there were no reports of platform remotorization.

Probably, the development of the platform and technology based on it in the proposed configuration has been successfully completed and made it possible to get rid of known shortcomings. This allows you to continue the production of armored vehicles and transfer them to the troops for the next scheduled activities.


Production of "Armat". Shot from the reportage of the TV company "Zvezda"

Appearance of the future


An interesting situation takes place in the context of the power plants for the Armata platform. First, a promising engine of an unusual scheme appeared, and only then the development of a new family of equipment began. Then such a motor was modified for new needs, combined with a transmission of the required design and introduced into the unified platform units.

In the foreseeable future, equipment based on the "Armata" will be put into service and will begin to enter the troops in significant quantities. In the distant future, this platform may even become the basis of a fleet of Russian armored vehicles. Together with it, a unified power plant based on the 12N360 engine will become a key component of the army materiel. Obviously, the development of this engine will continue and lead to improved modifications or completely new products.

It is quite possible that the modern 12Н360 will eventually become the basis of a whole family - and will take the same place in stories tank building, as the legendary B-2 in the past. However, while the developers of engines and armored vehicles face more mundane tasks. It is necessary to rid the engine of the identified shortcomings and bring it to full operation, giving the army all the new advantages.
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  1. Flashpoint
    Flashpoint April 15 2021 18: 19
    +2
    As far as I remember from Armata - engine replacement in 0.5 hours. Is there any more recent information?
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 April 15 2021 18: 37
      +5
      Half an hour is cool. The Leopard 2 is changed in the field in 45 minutes.
    2. 113262a
      113262a April 15 2021 20: 37
      +5
      I figure out how to change the nozzle of one of the lower rows on this motor! Or pull up a leaking tube. Compared to the T-72 and T-64, this is still a pleasure! Closer in sophistication to the Ukrainian (Kharkov) version!
      1. lucul
        lucul April 15 2021 21: 03
        .
        I figure out how to change the nozzle of one of the lower rows on this motor!

        This engine is the main brake of the Armata, there will be no new engine, there is no point in releasing the Armata.
    3. businessv
      businessv April 17 2021 12: 47
      0
      Quote: Flashpoint
      engine replacement in 0.5 hours. Is there any more recent information?
      The article indicates just such a time when using the recovery vehicle. smile
    4. angry retiree
      angry retiree April 24 2021 15: 25
      0
      in half an hour, the crew and the mobile workshop can only assemble the tools and something important, without which they will not find an important nut without unscrewing it. Changing the engine is work for a couple of days. And in the field for a couple of weeks.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. mark1
    mark1 April 15 2021 18: 30
    +1
    Kirill made a mistake with the width - by half a meter.
  4. Alien From
    Alien From April 15 2021 18: 48
    +1
    A robotic gearbox, an extremely capricious thing.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock April 15 2021 19: 05
      +15
      Quote: Alien From
      A robotic gearbox, an extremely capricious thing.

      On wagons, the same scanners, robots are quite reliable. The truck weighs 35 tons, not too far from the tanks.
      1. Alien From
        Alien From April 15 2021 19: 14
        +2
        The conditions are too different. If brought to mind, it will be easier for the mechanic
        1. Israel
          Israel April 16 2021 15: 13
          +3
          Yes, in the case of trucks / tractors, the conditions will be even more serious, the requirement for reliability, service life, etc. Businessmen cannot afford an engine and gearbox that do not leave at least half a floor. million kilometers.
      2. seregatara1969
        seregatara1969 April 16 2021 11: 44
        -1
        Wagon again beguiled with a tractor?
        1. businessv
          businessv April 17 2021 12: 49
          +1
          Quote: seregatara1969
          Wagon again beguiled with a tractor?

          Et as usual, but the author wrote it right in this case!
          wagons / tractors
          smile
      3. Sergey Ryumin
        Sergey Ryumin April 21 2021 10: 50
        0
        This is a play on words of an incompetent person. The T-14 has a conventional planetary central gearbox. Conventional in composition (hydraulically controlled frictional controls), not according to the scheme.
    2. Flashpoint
      Flashpoint April 15 2021 19: 06
      +6
      Hydraulic robots are usually tenacious
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 15 2021 22: 01
      +6
      Quote: Alien From
      A robotic gearbox, an extremely capricious thing.

      And what do they put here?:
      "..... The Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation will supply the Ministry of Defense with modernized T-72 tanks with automatic gear shifting APP-172. A similar box is on the newest T-90MS, which are considered the last step in the evolutionary lineup of Russian tanks before being adopted by the machine. new generation - T-14 “Armata.” Already this year, the first 32 updated tanks will become part of the 1st Guards Tank Army of the Western Military District ...
      ... Another difference between the T-72B3 and the base model is the automatic gearshift. For the first time, its advantage was assessed by the Russian military during the military-applied games "Tank Biathlon-2015". Then the specially created for the competition T-72B3 with an uprated 1130 hp engine. allowed our tankers to show the best results, both in speed, maneuverability and accuracy of hitting targets. .......
      ..... “It is not uncommon for a manual driver to break from first to fourth gear and ruin the car,” says Suvorov. - In addition, the "mechanics" are very tiring on the marches. And "automatic" is a reduction in the driver's fatigue .......
      .... Suvorov noted that the introduction of automatic gearshifts in modern Russian tanks will simplify the training of tank crews - it is much easier to master a tank with an “automatic” than a similar vehicle with a multi-stage “manual” gearbox. ..... "
      https://iz.ru/news/617624 (14 июня 2016г)
      1. Alien From
        Alien From April 15 2021 22: 03
        +5
        An automaton and a robot are different things.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr April 15 2021 22: 06
          +2
          Quote: Alien From
          An automaton and a robot are different things.
          Journalists might not have seen the difference. This control (T-90) from which box can it be?
          1. Alien From
            Alien From April 15 2021 22: 08
            +2
            Anything other than mechanics.
            1. malyvalv
              malyvalv April 16 2021 05: 08
              +7
              Judging by the number of gear positions, it can be from mechanics. For example, on BMP 1,2, the box is switched hydraulically. The mechanic simply puts the lever on the steering wheel in the desired position. True, you have to squeeze the clutch. But for the 60s, it's still cool.
              1. Alien From
                Alien From April 16 2021 06: 43
                +3
                It says "automatic gear selector" ......
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr April 16 2021 17: 02
                  +2
                  Found an article on this topic https://topwar.ru/96806-tanki-t-72b3-poluchat-avtomat-pereklyucheniya-peredach.html ... This box (APP-172) is installed not only on tanks:
                  1. Alien From
                    Alien From April 16 2021 18: 11
                    +4
                    Thank you! I see you are rooting for armored vehicles hi
                    1. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr April 16 2021 18: 16
                      +6
                      smile So, by my military profession, I am a "medium tank driver". For two years, they instilled a love of technology, now this is nowhere to be found.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. angry retiree
                        angry retiree April 24 2021 15: 28
                        0
                        I am also a mechanic-driver-electromechanical. We had a gas turbine engine therefore also an electromechanical. Motors are bad and the gas turbine engine is daunting and not reliable.
                      3. konstantin68
                        konstantin68 13 July 2021 20: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Angry Senior Citizen
                        We have bad motors

                        That is all bad with you, we know, we sympathize.
                        But the article is not about you. hi
        2. seregatara1969
          seregatara1969 April 16 2021 11: 47
          +3
          It looks like a mechanical box with robotic gear shifting. On tractors, these robots use
          1. MORDVIN13rus
            MORDVIN13rus April 17 2021 20: 16
            0
            This is a HMT, a manual transmission with hydraulic shifting without loss of power. 60s technology.
            1. Sergey Ryumin
              Sergey Ryumin April 21 2021 11: 08
              0
              There is no GMT in the T-14. It is a pity that only small files can be loaded here, even an ordinary kin. the scheme does not fit.
    4. Sergey Ryumin
      Sergey Ryumin April 21 2021 11: 04
      +3
      It is not uncommon for a manual driver to break from first to fourth gear and ruin the car, says Suvorov.
      This is the same expert! How can you do that? The shift selector will prevent you from shifting gears. Only consistently. An interesting case was with me during my work in the experimental transmission department. KB-3 of the Kirov plant. Back in the first nineties, there was a question of installing an automatic switch in the T-80. This work was carried out within the framework of the complete automation of the transmission with the GOP. At that time, we had no idea about stepping E / D, only solenoid actuators were in use. The development was entrusted to the leading designer. on hydraulic systems to Petr Petrovich Sergienko. The work did not go well, everything turned out to be very difficult. Opposite his desk sat his old friend, who was also the leader in hydraulics, but only the serial department. He brought a broken alarm clock from home and began to take it apart. P.P. looked at it and asked how the alarm clock works. When it came to the P.P. I just jumped up ... A day later, there were already outlines of an automatic switching device with two magnets and an anchor mechanism. One stroke of the magnet plus or minus one gear.
  5. Non liberoid Russian
    Non liberoid Russian April 20 2021 16: 38
    0
    depending on how and which actuator will be installed and the program for it will be configured as
  6. silver_roman
    silver_roman April 25 2021 11: 42
    0
    judging by DSG?))
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart April 15 2021 18: 51
    +3
    In the wake of the Army-2019 forum, it was reported that a promising engine for the Armata in terms of efficiency, heat transfer, resource, etc. inferior to modern foreign models, and this does not suit the military

    Well, I'm certainly not a specialist, but modern foreign models are much heavier machines, it is quite logical that the "Armata" engine will be inferior in terms of power and efficiency, I may be wrong, but the efficiency of the internal combustion engine generally increases with an increase in their size, and heat loss decreases.
    I don't see any particular tragedy in this, the important thing is that the engine provides this universal platform with good speed and has the potential for modernization.
  • Constanty
    Constanty April 15 2021 18: 55
    +8
    in t.ch. power point... The last was created specifically for the Armata"And must ensure the achievement of high technical characteristics


    Curiously, the engine is several years older than the universal platform. According to some reports, such an engine was created for the promising Object 195 tank, but this project did not progress beyond testing.


    These two pieces of text contradict each other. The development of the 12N360 engine began when no one had thought about the Armata yet.
    For the first time it was used even earlier than on Object 195, on Object 187 - in the first half of the 90s. or rather on
    "object 187" sample no. 4, sample no. 5, sample no. 6 - an experimental X-shaped turbocharged diesel engine A-85-2 with a capacity of 1200 hp. from. developed by the design bureau of engines ChTZ (Chelyabinsk), located longitudinally in the MTO.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 19: 08
      -6
      Quote: Constanty
      These two pieces of text contradict each other.

      Why? If I'm not mistaken, this engine was developed for Object 195, which later became the "newest" Armata. There was also an uninhabited tower, a capsule crew location.
      1. Constanty
        Constanty April 15 2021 21: 14
        +4
        Potemu
        especially for platform "Armata"

        "Armata" is not "Object 195", especially "187"
        Work on the "Armata" began 15-20 years later than the beginning of the development of this engine, therefore it contradicts the logic and design.
        Of course, you can put a minus, because someone may not like it, but this is just a manifestation of thoughtlessness.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr April 15 2021 21: 30
          +6
          The 2V-12-3A engine is a further development of the 2V16 engine. With which (X-shaped, 1200 l / s) the MTU-1 and MTU-2 units were developed. This was in the late 1970s, early 1980s. These monoblocks were developed for modernization and as a backup option for the initially T-80 gas turbine tank. We ran in at Chelyabinsk "facility 785","object 219RD (Peter) and on "facility 186"(from UVZ). The development of this motor (with a 2V12-3 (A-85-3) engine - 1500hp) stood at"object 187"And"facility 195"(aka T-95). I came across information that I wound about 195 thousand km on 12 landfills.
      2. Constanty
        Constanty April 15 2021 21: 26
        +4
        for object 195, which later became the "newest" Armata. There was also an uninhabited tower, a capsule crew location.

        Looking at this, the Pzkpfw V "Panther" became the "newest" FT-17. Layout, gasoline engine, front gearbox, tower. And to be honest, the 195 and the Armata are two different tanks (and actually not on the example of the T-72 / T90, where this is an evolution)
    2. Mooh
      Mooh April 15 2021 19: 12
      +5
      Nifiga do not contradict. The engine is the engine and that's it, and the power plant is the engine + gearbox + main clutch + attachments and some other nishtyaki.
      But about the reverse, the author turned down some strange bodyag. I didn't understand exactly what he calls a reverse and why it works as a divider. I suspect that the author does not understand either.
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev April 15 2021 19: 46
        +9
        "+ main clutch"
        The main friccin ended up on the T-62, now it's different. Hydro-controlled planetary gearboxes. They also have clutches that work in oil, but there are many of them and there is no main one among them. I think that the same principle is applied on the Armata, there is only one CP, not a pair.
        Unfortunately, the motor is nothing new.
        What is it inferior to and what diesel engines is covered in darkness. But, there are vague doubts that an x-shaped diesel engine, although compact, will be more expensive than a v-shaped diesel engine of similar parameters. And the heat transfer from the x-shaped is more. So they made a try to shove in the unpushable in the form of an OEP Seagull ...
        1. lucul
          lucul April 15 2021 21: 12
          +6
          But, there are vague doubts that an x-shaped diesel engine, although compact, will be more expensive than a v-shaped diesel engine of similar parameters

          This compactness will help you save an extra 5 tons of weight.
          In addition, on some cars, in order to replace, for example, the timing belt, the engine must be completely removed from the body - and nothing, such cars are normally sold.)))
        2. Mooh
          Mooh April 16 2021 13: 57
          0
          The main friccin ended up on the T-62, now it's different. Hydraulically controlled planetary gearboxes

          In the text - a robotic manual transmission. What is actually there, I do not know for sure, I suspect that it is hydromechanics. Then everything becomes clear about the reverse. But I read about the robot more than once, so I wrote about the main clutch. For every fireman :)
    3. eburg1234
      eburg1234 April 17 2021 11: 20
      +1
      Even earlier, the 16-cylinder X-shaped model was installed on ob. 186 and the experimental T-80B (Object 219RD).
      https://topwar.ru/27276-tank-obekt-219rd-i-dvigatel-2v-16-2.html
      http://www.russianarms.ru/forum/index.php?topic=14392.0
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 15 2021 18: 59
    +6
    Quote: Alien From
    A robotic gearbox, an extremely capricious thing.

    It is no more capricious than the two-line GOPs that are on the Leopards and Abrams, but on domestic heavy tracked chassis (GM-5970, GM-569, GM-352 for example).
    Here hydraulics are really hemorrhoids, if the mechanic overlooked.

    A diesel normal, counting from scratch they did, and it would be even strange if he did not have "childhood diseases".
    The main thing is that the reserve for forcing is serious, and made "in step with the times."
    At least now some couch mechanics will finally stop praying and fap on MTU (far from so hassle-free).
    1. lucul
      lucul April 15 2021 21: 08
      -7
      And the diesel is Normal, count from a clean slate,

      So the fact of the matter is that the engine is one-time. For the development of the country, a whole line of engines is needed from a liter diesel engine to huge marine diesel engines.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 03: 51
        +4
        Quote: lucul
        So the fact of the matter is that the engine is one-time

        What is this characteristic ?!


        Quote: lucul
        For the development of the country, a whole line of engines is needed from a liter diesel engine to huge marine diesel engines.
        Who can argue, but you do not think, I hope that all this can be provided with one standard size of the "Armatovsky" diesel engine.
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich April 16 2021 09: 01
          +6
          [quote = Vladimir_2U] [quote = lucul] So the fact of the matter is that the engine is one-time [/ quote]
          What is this characteristic ?!

          This is until a sub-caliber projectile hits the engine. As soon as I got there, and the engine was replaced.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 10: 14
            +4
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            As soon as I got there, and the engine was replaced.

            Oh, I see! A very bad indicator, Abrams is much cooler, obviously! laughing laughing
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 4 June 2021 08: 35
        0
        Do not confuse tank diesel and civilian ... Tank diesel engines will not be installed on the MZKT ... in 750-cylinder, in-line design. and 1L volume
  • Operator
    Operator April 15 2021 19: 52
    .
    Will not take off - this diesel engine has a compression ratio like a gasoline engine and, accordingly, the same specific fuel consumption.
    1. Angry Alt-Right
      Angry Alt-Right April 15 2021 20: 15
      +12
      Quote: Operator
      Will not take off - this diesel engine has a compression ratio like a gasoline engine and, accordingly, the same specific fuel consumption.

      How can a diesel have in principle a compression ratio like gasoline? What are you writing at all? Also tell me that diesel is a lighter fraction than gasoline? what
      1. Operator
        Operator April 15 2021 21: 01
        .
        Does faith prevent you from googling?

        The compression ratio of the A-85-3A is 11 - like that of a gasoline engine powered by the AI-95.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 04: 08
          0
          Quote: Operator
          The compression ratio of the A-85-3A is 11 - like that of a gasoline engine powered by the AI-95.
          In general, a very strange figure for a diesel engine, even suspicious. For veteran B-2, the degree of 14 began.
          1. Zufei
            Zufei April 16 2021 10: 10
            0
            Gauge boost pressure not specified. M / b and 3 kgf / cm 2
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 10: 17
              0
              Quote: Zufei
              Overpressure not specified

              As I understand it, the boost is in a separate line and is not reflected in the compression ratio. So why would a modern engine have this degree lower than that of hoary antiquity, it is decidedly not clear.
              1. Martin
                Martin April 19 2021 13: 41
                0
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                As I understand it, the boost is in a separate line and is not reflected in the compression ratio.

                The compression ratio is a purely geometric parameter. This is the ratio of the total volume of the cylinder to the volume of the combustion chamber. Therefore, the supercharging in the compression ratio cannot be "reflected" with the most unbridled imagination.
                So you are right: it is not reflected. :-)
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U April 19 2021 14: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Martyn
                  Therefore, the supercharging in the compression ratio cannot be "reflected" with the most unbridled imagination.
                  Well, in the explanations on the compression ratio and boost for gas engines, this stands out, so I shared it.
              2. igor_sabadah
                igor_sabadah April 23 2021 12: 49
                0
                Aspiration, the air comes in despite the intercooling and is so hot, well, why a large compression ratio? Many supercharged engines, in comparison with naturally aspirated ones, have a lower compression ratio, well, or gasoline with a higher RON is used on gasoline
            2. Operator
              Operator April 16 2021 14: 25
              0
              The turbocharging of the A-85-3A (like that of gasoline engines) is a makeweight and does not affect the high specific fuel consumption.
        2. Mooh
          Mooh April 16 2021 14: 02
          +1
          The compression ratio of the A-85-3A is 11

          Not technically possible. Diesel engine with such compression will not start. Only if on air.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 16 2021 14: 22
            -1
            Even how it starts - with the help of a spark plug.
          2. 113262a
            113262a April 17 2021 14: 02
            +1
            Well, it starts up! All multi-fuel ones work exactly this way! Ignition is not from compression, but from a glow plug. Yes, yes, the same scheme, with a pre-chamber!
          3. igor_sabadah
            igor_sabadah April 23 2021 12: 50
            0
            Big will start, the larger the cylinders, the lower the compression loss.
        3. eburg1234
          eburg1234 April 17 2021 11: 24
          +3
          Let me tell you a secret: the compression ratio of a supercharged engine is less than that of a naturally aspirated one. wink.
  • Angry Alt-Right
    Angry Alt-Right April 15 2021 20: 18
    +2
    The fact that this diesel is more compact, albeit somewhat heavier, is an indirect +, because the size will allow you to rationally squeeze the total reserve volume. Due to this, the difference in weight, on the contrary, can create a drop in the total weight, and not its growth.
  • 113262a
    113262a April 15 2021 20: 44
    +2
    In combat conditions, the same DEATH of ZAMPOTEKH, like the Kharkov two-stroke! Due to the compactness, access to the auxiliary units is nikosy! And given the awful quality of the fuel equipment, everything is really bad!
    1. Constanty
      Constanty April 15 2021 21: 21
      +2
      By the way, the German engine Sla 16 (Porsche Type 203) X-16 at the end of World War II is very similar (by the way, like the Jumo 205 and 5TD).
      And in fact, the problems are visible at a glance.
      1. 113262a
        113262a April 15 2021 23: 11
        0
        No, Yumo is the progenitor of the Kharkov one, This is most likely the engine developed under the leadership of V. Dobrynin for the Tu-85 strategic bomber.
    2. Usher
      Usher April 15 2021 22: 04
      +1
      Quote: 113262
      In combat conditions, the same DEATH of ZAMPOTEKH, like the Kharkov two-stroke! Due to the compactness, access to the auxiliary units is nikosy! And given the awful quality of the fuel equipment, everything is really bad!

      Type the same modularity, this is when it broke down quickly changed to a spare. And the broken one is being repaired in the rear. But I think this is bullshit.
      1. 113262a
        113262a April 15 2021 23: 13
        0
        If the fuel pipe leaks - change the whole block? Or if the nozzle starts pouring?
        1. Usher
          Usher April 15 2021 23: 23
          -1
          Quote: 113262
          If the fuel pipe leaks - change the whole block? Or if the nozzle starts pouring?

          Anything. They tell me that it's better this way. Like 30 minutes and back into battle. The only problem is, who will change the engine during the battle? Or do we have engines like mud? This strategy can be rational for the rich and in times of peace. But not for a mass army even during the war.
          1. 113262a
            113262a April 15 2021 23: 38
            +6
            Back in the early 80s, he served on the T-80, in a regiment of 100 tanks, not a single accident on the GTD-1100 TF. I changed it myself before demobilization at UBM only because of the fact that it was already supposed by the engine hours! This is despite the fact that the car went day to night for shooting and driving, and the linear ones were almost catching up in terms of operating time.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 04: 10
              +4
              Quote: 113262
              Back in the early 80s, he served on the T-80, in a regiment of 100 tanks, not a single accident with the GTD-1100 TF
              So the turbine is only spinning, there are no spiers, twisting back and forth, like piston engines, no! In vain, in my opinion, they abandoned tank turbines.
              1. max702
                max702 April 16 2021 09: 30
                +3
                So yes, the technical design of the turbines is at a completely different level than that of diesel engines (ours) ..
                And since they are expensive (9-10 times more expensive than a diesel engine) and eat pretty much ..
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 10: 23
                  +2
                  Quote: max702
                  And so they are expensive (9-10 times more expensive than diesel) and eat pretty

                  Their resource is already five times higher, and they are eating less and less.
                  1. max702
                    max702 April 16 2021 10: 42
                    +1
                    Yes, everything is so, maybe they will do something, because we frankly do not work out the internal combustion engine, whatever one may say .. Although I read from the engine specialists from ChTZ, they directly said they would give us a tenth of the money that they had killed the Kharkiv opposed and the Leningrad turbine would have long been a super diesel for a tank they did it .. Although the designers always don’t "give" them money, so it is also questionable ..
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U April 16 2021 11: 08
                      0
                      Quote: max702
                      because the internal combustion engine we frankly do not work out anyway ..

                      What nonsense! T-90s are equipped with 1000 strong B-92s, which are quite reliable and quite economical.
                      1. max702
                        max702 April 16 2021 18: 02
                        -2
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Quote: max702
                        because the internal combustion engine we frankly do not work out anyway ..

                        What nonsense! T-90s are equipped with 1000 strong B-92s, which are quite reliable and quite economical.

                        1000l / s with 39l of volume with a frantic consumption of oil and fuel? Is this a type of diesel? Now, not 25 l / s are removed from a liter, but 50-60 l / s, and this is for trucks with a resource of 1 million / km and practically zero oil consumption between runs .. That's it, it's all about B-2, you can't cut an 80-year-old structure indefinitely ..
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 17 2021 12: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: max702
                        1000l / s with 39l of volume with a frantic consumption of oil and fuel? Is this a type of diesel? Now they remove from a liter not 25 l / s, but 50-60 l / s, and this is for trucks with a resource of 1 million km and practically zero oil consumption between runs
                        Why compare a truck and a tank? That a moped and a tank cannot be compared at once?
                      3. max702
                        max702 April 17 2021 22: 36
                        0
                        Why not compare that? There and there there is no difference three characteristics volume, power, moment .. That's it .. Or do you want to ask a truck for a resource? Or oil change regulations? Or fuel consumption? Duc will become completely sad ..
                      4. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 13: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: max702
                        Why not compare that?

                        What's wrong with the moped, again? Maybe with a classmate, a tank engine, eh? At least from Leo-2.
                      5. max702
                        max702 April 18 2021 16: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Quote: max702
                        Why not compare that?

                        What's wrong with the moped, again? Maybe with a classmate, a tank engine, eh? At least from Leo-2.

                        Let's compare ours with 39l 1000l / s Leo with 45l 1500l / s in total 25 l / s per liter and 33l / s per liter and then sadness ..
                      6. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 18 2021 17: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: max702
                        Let's compare ours with 39l 1000l / s Leo with 45l 1500l / s in total 25 l / s per liter and 33l / s per liter and then sadness ..
                        But somehow not such sadness, like Leo, is also far from:
                        Quote: max702
                        50-60 l / s and this is for freight with a resource of 1 million / km

                        Well, the volume of the MTO t-90 is 3,5 cubic meters versus 6,9 cubic meters of Leo-2, you also know not a reason for sadness.
                      7. max702
                        max702 April 18 2021 17: 45
                        -2
                        Well, in principle, of course, not everything is so bad, the bad thing is that tank diesel engines are terribly lagging behind modern cargo diesel engines, and after all, once they were at the forefront of progress. the development cost will not be very small .. The military is very conservative and is preparing for past wars .. But I think that soon we will have a new leap forward in this area as soon as it is required they will do everything right away ..
                      8. PROXOR
                        PROXOR April 23 2021 15: 05
                        +1
                        Nothing that the B-92 is multi-fuel. Its volume, forcing is sharpened for multi-fuel. The same Leo eats nothing except salary. Abrams so generally only on aviation fuel. The B-92 engine, though kerosene for the lamp, will eat and rejoice.
                        Well, to compare a tank engine (which operates in terrifying temperature and load conditions) and the engine of a truck tractor that works exclusively for asphalt roads is incredible foolishness.
                      9. max702
                        max702 April 23 2021 15: 37
                        0
                        Quote: PROXOR
                        Nothing that the B-92 is multi-fuel. Its volume, forcing is sharpened for multi-fuel. The same Leo eats nothing except salary. Abrams so generally only on aviation fuel. The B-92 engine, though kerosene for the lamp, will eat and rejoice.
                        Well, to compare a tank engine (which operates in terrifying temperature and load conditions) and the engine of a truck tractor that works exclusively for asphalt roads is incredible foolishness.

                        Again the fairy tales began .. What are such horrific conditions and loads? Express it not in pretty words, but in ordinary numbers! What is the load on the tank engine? What temperature does it work at? At what speed is the maximum operating time .. There are numbers for all this and much more, and looking at them you can say something, bring them! Yes, the tank carries 50 tons all the time, but it does it at an average speed of 20-30 km / h, the same tractor carries 30-40 tons at an average speed of 80-90 km / h for days and hundreds of thousands of km. in the truck? It is clear that the operating conditions are different, but in the end everything will come down to the perfection of the engine! Remove the ecological strangleholds from the truck engine to Euro-0, reduce the resource to 10 km, the service mileage to 000 km, do not limit fuel consumption, let him eat as much as necessary and the engine will give such opportunities that tank diesels can only dream of, and why, because they MODERN! They are made in order to compete with a dozen of similar ones and be at least no worse than others, otherwise no one will need them! Tank engine engineers do not have such a problem, there is zero competition, the military that put TUs are traditionally stuck in the last war, but the military does not care about the attendant problems of new technology, in the army, competition manifests itself only during wars! Then, yes, the military immediately needs the maximum possible of what is available .. That is, during wars, technical progress develops by leaps and bounds .. That is why now the volume of such a diesel engine is removed from a liter of 500l / s, (with poor all other characteristics) and with commercial 30-50l / s with millions of runs and interservice maintenance of 60 km ..
                        There is no need for multi-fuel, this crazy and unnecessary fetish is an excuse for the mediocrity and laziness of designers and nothing more, not one deputy tech will allow the use of fuel in a technique that is not the main recommended one .. And in case of force majeure it will still not work for long .. Ask how the BMP-3 was tested on gasoline (there is also a "multi-fuel")
                      10. PROXOR
                        PROXOR April 26 2021 16: 54
                        0
                        Quote: max702
                        There is no need for multi-fuel, this crazy and unnecessary fetish is an excuse for the mediocrity and laziness of designers and nothing more, not one deputy tech will allow the use of fuel in a technique that is not the main recommended one .. And in case of force majeure it will still not work for long .. Ask how the BMP-3 was tested on gasoline (there is also a "multi-fuel")

                        After THIS foolishness, writing to you does not make sense at all. Such technical illiteracy borders on childish naivety. For information to a PROFAN like you. The same army Urals, when they put it on the conveyor, first put gasoline on V8. And they sent these vehicles to the western group of troops. After problems with the supply of tank armies in the Great Patriotic War with diesel fuel, which was banal in sufficient quantities in Germany, they came to understand that the engine must be either multi-fuel or on the fuel of the alleged enemy. I know about the BMP-3 tests. Nevertheless, the BMP-3 was running on gasoline. Which European FUR engine will run on gasoline.

                        The rest of the conversation with you is over as with a completely illiterate person. GO LEARN THE MATCH!
  • max702
    max702 April 16 2021 09: 28
    +3
    It is removed in 15 minutes .. They took it off to the stand, put it right and back .. The times when they were repaired in an open field like they were repaired, then they wrote off from such repairs under 80% of this for non-combat losses .. Nothing will be spent on mobile repair bases on specialist mechanics, not conscripts, and all the way, get out in India when the T-90 mechanics from the factory! diesel for the night sifted Duc it was called a change .. No, such supposedly simplicity and maintainability are more expensive ..
    1. 113262a
      113262a April 16 2021 10: 30
      0
      Already wrote, the fuel pipe flowed! Solarium went to the bottom of the floor. Removing the motor? The nozzle began to pour, and they pour it like that sometimes, often. - Are we filming again? Or-and so FROZEN?
      1. max702
        max702 April 16 2021 10: 37
        +5
        Why did it flow? Why would it suddenly? Did you under-twist it when you climbed into the engine for not really crawling? Why on long-range engines, with almost round-the-clock work, do the motors work like a clock, often being repaired only for maintenance? And it started flowing, but it takes 15 minutes to remove the motor .. Many problems are just due to poor, inconvenient maintenance by unqualified personnel and poor quality of parts ..
        1. 113262a
          113262a April 16 2021 12: 40
          +1
          And why on the T-72, T-64 and others like them - the MTO cover with a maximum of two bolts is always screwed on? Why do the crews dive there at every halt and constantly pull up something and change the nozzles? Add water in summer, antifreeze in winter. And only the T-80 crews are head over heels in fuel oil?
          1. igor_sabadah
            igor_sabadah April 23 2021 12: 55
            +1
            That is why it is necessary to tweak something regularly in UAZ, but in a Japanese woman from MOT to MOT they don't look under the hood.
        2. kytx
          kytx April 19 2021 12: 44
          +1
          for a long time everything has been going towards block repair and not only in military equipment
          it is faster and oddly enough on the exhaust it is cheaper than stretching the pipes and changing the nozzles
          It is not necessary for the mechanic to know that there are any injectors there, he unrolled the set hours - for a replacement. and that one for major repairs or scrap.
          and some still believe that repairing in the field with a hammer and a piece of wire is true Zen :)
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr April 16 2021 17: 32
        +3
        Quote: 113262
        Already wrote, the fuel pipe flowed!

        In places requiring attention, a hatch is usually installed. In the T-72, for example
        (tank, apparently a training tank, as it is pretty dirty)
  • Basarev
    Basarev April 15 2021 20: 55
    -9
    Only this is all in vain. There have already been long-standing rumors about Armata about attempts to reduce the price, but they still did not cope ... I think that B-2, this zombie among tank engines, will again be stuck on the front models. However, I do not think that the series will be large. The budgetary modernized T-72s, which have not strayed so far from the Iraqi ones, will remain the main ones.
    1. agond
      agond April 15 2021 22: 33
      +7
      Whatever they say about the shortcomings of the new engine, they are all removable, but in the applied engine scheme the crankshaft is two times shorter !!! therefore, it is much stiffer and stronger than the usual V-shaped engine.
      The new engine has great opportunities for further upgrades and an increase in power, it can even be made in a 16-cylinder version, this will increase the engine length by only 30 cm
      1. Basarev
        Basarev April 15 2021 22: 52
        -9
        Yes, the new engine is good, I admit it. I'm just getting at the point that it will most likely be left in piece copies, like Armata itself. To create a new model, and even more so to bring it to a serious series of modern Russia, is beyond the power, I doubt very much.
        1. max702
          max702 April 16 2021 09: 32
          +5
          Quote: Basarev
          To create a new model, and even more so to bring it to a serious series of modern Russia, is beyond the power, I doubt very much.

          Yes of course! Aviation power, missile power, nuclear power, but a tank diesel engine cannot.
      2. 113262a
        113262a April 15 2021 23: 17
        -6
        The layout of the tank is a gem! If for an aviation star-shaped, even a multi-row one, this is the norm-uncoated-available for service and repair-to do anything from the uncomfortable side is already a feat! On a tank bottom, you can't repair it especially through the hatches!
        1. eburg1234
          eburg1234 April 17 2021 11: 31
          +1
          Star-shaped gasoline engines were installed on the Shermans, by the way. They fought somehow.
        2. igor_sabadah
          igor_sabadah April 23 2021 12: 56
          0
          Chrysler Multibank
      3. 113262a
        113262a April 16 2021 12: 28
        -3
        The scheme with trailed connecting rods is applied. And this is NOT EASIER AND NOT MORE RELIABLE! Moreover, the stroke of the main and trailed pistons will always differ.
      4. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr April 16 2021 18: 08
        +3
        Quote: agond
        The new engine has great opportunities for further upgrades and an increase in power, it can even be made in a 16-cylinder version, this will increase the engine length by only 30 cm

        The daddy (2B-16-2) of the current engine was 16-cylinder. There he can be seen in the transmission of object 219RD.
        The 12-cylinder version is considered more successful.
  • czes
    czes April 15 2021 23: 42
    +2
    "Probably, the development of the platform and technology based on it in the proposed configuration has been successfully completed ..." Probably.
    "It is quite possible that the modern 12Н360 will eventually become ..." It is quite possible.
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 16 2021 04: 00
    0
    Quote: lucul
    And the diesel is Normal, count from a clean slate,

    So the fact of the matter is that the engine is one-time. For the development of the country, a whole line of engines is needed from a liter diesel engine to huge marine diesel engines.

    Grandfather B-2 is certainly a well-deserved engine, but it is already many, many years old, and forced to the limit (no joke, squeeze 400hp from the 'base' 1130hp).
    What else do we have?
    The UTD family (V6 and V10) are lightweight for MBT, they have their own niche.
    The new YAMZ Euro-sixes of the 6th and 7th series are also not rolled for armored vehicles, after all, they are 'greenhouse' ones (common rail, ECU and other stuffing), all the same in civilian life they belong (by the way, what is not a line of cargo diesels ? Power range is just from 150 to 600hp).
    And for the tank so far only this one is the most suitable, if only they did not abandon it, otherwise they like to throw off good ideas with us halfway through, and again covet the import.
    Although, against the background of the events of recent years, like a roast rooster pecked (the same sanctions, import substitution, and te teh), things should go.
    On marine diesels, to Koloment and St. Petersburg "Zvezda", like there is stirring, albeit weak.

    The unification of diesel engines in "one line from liter to marine" is extremely vague.
    1. max702
      max702 April 16 2021 09: 37
      +3
      Than greenhouse then? Is it not necessary to supply diesel fuel to the army of norms? Or recruit mechanics exclusively from conscripts from mountain villages? Normal fuel, high-quality service (teach the experts) and here's an engine with a resource under 1 km .. Do not save on service staff and spare parts and everything will pay off twice ..
      1. 113262a
        113262a April 16 2021 12: 31
        +1
        To master the production of high-quality and reliable fuel is still not possible! We are somewhere on the level of good China. It will still do for a tractor, but in SUCH engine I would be careful.
        1. max702
          max702 April 16 2021 18: 08
          +1
          In the north, 536 are driven into the tail and the mane does not give the engine any special problems. And if you consider that in the military version of Euro-0 it gives out 451 liters of chocolate in general, especially since we already make fuel equipment (he was surprised) apparently bought normal equipment and spared no expense for staff training ..
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 16 2021 04: 06
    +1
    Quote: agond
    Whatever they say about the shortcomings of the new engine, they are all removable, but in the applied engine scheme the crankshaft is two times shorter !!! therefore, it is much stiffer and stronger than the usual V-shaped engine.
    The new engine has great opportunities for further upgrades and an increase in power, it can even be made in a 16-cylinder version, this will increase the engine length by only 30 cm

    The X-shaped model has only one significant drawback, characteristic of all engines with a "lying" type of cylinders (subarovody, pistons and owners of boxer motorcycles will not lie) is the increased oil consumption associated with this arrangement, as well as more wear on one side of the liners (bottom).
    But for military equipment, you can safely close your eyes to such a thing, the total resource of the engine will be exhausted faster than it will come to replacing the liners.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 16 2021 23: 39
      +2
      Quote: trahterist
      .... this is the increased oil consumption associated with this arrangement, as well as more wear on one side of the liners (bottom). ...

      During the Second World War, German aviation used Daimler-Benz DB 601 engines (19 322 units were produced), as well as Daimler-Benz DB 605 engines (about 42 400 units produced). For ease of maintenance, all of them are made with crankshafts up, pistons down. Having released such a number of engines, the Germans did not understand that with such a layout, the engine and oil eats more and increased liner wear?
      - "Messerschmitt" Bf 109
      1. Atlas
        Atlas April 17 2021 15: 18
        0
        I am a complete layman in this business, but I have a question. Volkswagen does not have a V-shaped engine, but
        W-shaped, with 16 boiler. If the X-shaped has a large oil consumption and uneven wear of the cylinders due to the horizontal arrangement, then it can make a W-shaped, it will be more compact ???
        Do not scold too much)))
        1. igor_sabadah
          igor_sabadah April 23 2021 13: 01
          0
          There is rather a paired VR than a W from a Folks, W is too uncomfortable, three in-line blocks per crankshaft, unlike the classic V or L, where savings are obtained on the same intake manifold common for two blocks
        2. 113262a
          113262a April 23 2021 17: 53
          0
          I drive T-3 Volkswagen, 750 thousand mileage, native boxer 112 hp, 2.1 liters. ... NO OILZHORA! The motor is in stock. There are leaks on gaskets and seals. But the exhaust is dry.
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 16 2021 04: 10
    +2
    Quote: Usher
    Quote: 113262
    In combat conditions, the same DEATH of ZAMPOTEKH, like the Kharkov two-stroke! Due to the compactness, access to the auxiliary units is nikosy! And given the awful quality of the fuel equipment, everything is really bad!

    Type the same modularity, this is when it broke down quickly changed to a spare. And the broken one is being repaired in the rear. But I think this is bullshit.

    Nonsense, nonsense, and Western armored vehicles have been made according to a similar system for twenty years.
    SKD replacement.
    Or do you prefer dances and dances throughout the day, when replacing the good old B-2 (B-92) with accompanying centering and other hemorrhoids?
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 16 2021 11: 46
    +2
    Quote: max702
    Than greenhouse then? Is it not necessary to supply diesel fuel to the army of norms? Or recruit mechanics exclusively from conscripts from mountain villages? Normal fuel, high-quality service (teach the experts) and here's an engine with a resource under 1 km .. Do not save on service staff and spare parts and everything will pay off twice ..

    All of you are writing correctly, but the realities are a little different, and no one has canceled the army squabble.
    And this is not a citizen, where the truck did not start, ah, garbage, we will call the service, they will come and fix it.
    It did not start up and did not wash off in time, and received a shell / rocket ...
    Of course, it is high time to improve the qualifications, and the mechanic drive is no longer a fuel oil "tractor driver", otherwise it will turn out again as with that ceremonial Armata at the rehearsal - they put the mechanic drive, who was used to driving on the antediluvian control system, at the "advanced" steering wheel with a semiautomatic device, and an incident happened ...
    As an offtopic, he himself, to be honest, experienced a lot of shameful minutes, having moved on a truck from mechanics to Optikruiz (Scania).
    It seems to be easier, but you need to have a habit.
  • Lars971a
    Lars971a April 16 2021 13: 56
    0
    I want to add a little about the GTE of the T-80 tank, the cost in Soviet rubles was about 100 thousand rubles, but the technology was worked out and it was possible to increase the power to 1500 hp. consumption rate T-80 7.5 liters per 1 km, T-72 5.5 liters per 1 km. It is not known how much the new engine for the Armata costs and when the question will be brought ..................
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo April 16 2021 15: 32
    +1
    Here you go. We were able to use a tank tank - reliable and with high specific parameters.
    Doublingly well done, because the task of making the X-shaped engine really reliable turned out to be too tough even for such monsters as Rolls-Royce.
    Why, then, is there a plug with high-speed marine diesel engines? Now in Germany we beg, then in China.
    Yes, and for passenger cars it would not hurt to create a domestic one.
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 17 2021 02: 29
    0
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: trahterist
    .... this is the increased oil consumption associated with this arrangement, as well as more wear on one side of the liners (bottom). ...

    During the Second World War, German aviation used Daimler-Benz DB 601 engines (19 322 units were produced), as well as Daimler-Benz DB 605 engines (about 42 400 units produced). For ease of maintenance, all of them are made with crankshafts up, pistons down. Having released such a number of engines, the Germans did not understand that with such a layout, the engine and oil eats more and increased liner wear?
    - "Messerschmitt" Bf 109

    I have pointed out in parentheses about the shortcomings of MODERN engines with a similar layout.
    Once again, for those who are particularly smart.
    In opposites, and just horizontal rowers, this is a Congenital sore-zhor of oil and one-sided wear of liners, ask any mechanic who has dealt with them, or at least read on the forums of owners of opposites, everyone will unanimously answer about this "feature", and do not re-image the pictures taken from the ceiling.
    Why the same MAN "Unterfluer" did not find widespread use, although they ran pretty well, just because of the characteristic problems of the "couches", the Germans themselves prochukhali, by the way.
    Enough is not the Germans to pray, honestly, tired.
    And who told you that the Germans had no problems with them?
    Did you communicate with them, read specialized literature?
    Something besides them Nobody in the world has used such technical Ugliness (inverted V-shnik), and after, and now, such idiocy is not observed.
    The Germans in general did all sorts of funny things, but this does not mean that they are geniuses by default, they had no less of their dead-end developments, if in general.
    In general, this admiration is already annoying, incl. And on Topvar.
    No, no, and yet another sofa mechanic will fit in and insert his unnecessary five cents "but the Germans! ..."
    ZY It's like one friend here rubbed me about a year ago, in the topic about the 5TD / 6TD family, that they also "had no problems" with Yumo-205, and we (Kharkovites, or rather) screwed up everything.
    Although it is enough to read the specialized literature, familiarize yourself with the history of operation, and it is immediately clear that they quite had it for themselves, and just in Kharkov, at the cost of incredible efforts, they brought, in principle, not the most successful design to acceptable (relatively) indicators.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 17 2021 10: 43
      +2
      Quote: trahterist
      Once again, for those who are particularly smart ...
      Quote: trahterist
      .. Enough not Germans to pray anymore, honestly, tired ...

      Or maybe it's enough to ascribe to others what you, "not a sofa expert", have composed yourself?
      Where is in my text at least one praise (I'm not talking about prayers) in favor of an inverted engine?
      An example of such a layout is given, produced in a huge batch (more than 60 thousand pieces), and if this is a very unfortunate layout, why does it take the second place in terms of the number of manufactured aircraft, among all aircraft engines produced by Germany at that time?
      1. agond
        agond April 17 2021 19: 54
        +2
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        Why, then, is there a plug with high-speed marine diesel engines? Now in Germany we beg, then in China.

        High-speed ones are produced by PJSC "Zvezda", this is a 7-ray star marine diesel engine for 56 cylinders, if necessary, two such engines are sometimes combined into one unit, as a result, 112 cylinders are obtained (very unreliable), but I think they will establish the production of medium-speed diesel engines with fewer cylinders.
        Regarding the inverted V-shaped, it was made to increase the pilot's view without increasing the cross-section of the fighter fuselage in the cockpit area.
        Due to the uneven wear of the cylinders in the X engine, of course, the details are unknown, but this engine has two planes of symmetry, vertical and horizontal (in the V-shaped only one vertical), therefore X-shaped engines, in principle, can be turned 180 * relative to the crankshaft axis, then the lower cylinders will be at the top, which will help extend the resource.
    2. VladGTN
      VladGTN April 22 2021 22: 11
      0
      Man removed the entire line of such trucks from production, and the standard layout won. And about engines with horizontally located cylinders - so most of modern buses have engines with such an arrangement of cylinders and go for many hundreds of thousands of kilometers. Even on the old Ikarus there were no special problems.
      1. igor_sabadah
        igor_sabadah April 23 2021 13: 06
        0
        All modern buses now have in-line engines with vertically arranged cylinders, as they removed the engine from under the floor and stopped fiddling with sideways. And the uneven wear of the CPG is a common sore Ikarus 280. Ask any Ikarus driver ..
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus April 19 2021 12: 59
    +1
    B-2 also went into production for a long time in the 30s and 40s. How many shortcomings were there in terms of the resource of engine hours. And exploitation during the first period of the war.
  • trahterist
    trahterist April 22 2021 00: 33
    0
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: trahterist
    Once again, for those who are particularly smart ...
    Quote: trahterist
    .. Enough not Germans to pray anymore, honestly, tired ...

    Or maybe it's enough to ascribe to others what you, "not a sofa expert", have composed yourself?
    Where is in my text at least one praise (I'm not talking about prayers) in favor of an inverted engine?
    An example of such a layout is given, produced in a huge batch (more than 60 thousand pieces), and if this is a very unfortunate layout, why does it take the second place in terms of the number of manufactured aircraft, among all aircraft engines produced by Germany at that time?

    I don’t ascribe.
    Go to any "military" forum, and a crowd of Banderlog- "the Germans are getting better / copied" right there.
    Starting from the Kalash-Sturmgever, to "all jet aircraft, thanks and only to the Germans, has developed in the Union."
    Okay, that's not the point, the flag is in their hands.
    As for the overturns, the Engines gave out the required parameters in terms of power and are relatively reliable and basta, and in wartime, such trifles as economy in fuel and lubricating oils are looked at last, if only it would work in battle.
    But how much they ran to the capital, this is a great secret
    Massiveness is not a sign of any outstanding qualities, it is always a Compromise.
    The far-from-simple history of the T-34 is a brilliant confirmation of this.
    Also massive, riveted by tens of thousands, but there were, There were problems, both with the diesel engine and with the checkpoint (the first 4-mortar is generally a mechanic's nightmare, according to veterans), brought to mind by the end of the war.
    But it is also considered the Best tank of the Second World War in terms of overall qualities.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 25 May 2021 13: 21
    0
    it was reported that a promising engine for "Armata" in terms of efficiency, heat transfer, resource, etc. inferior to modern foreign models, and this does not suit the military. At that time, it was proposed to consider the possibility of using a different engine.

    The best examples of domestic engine building - the YMZ family of industrial engines, have a resource of 5000-7000 hours, which is three times less than CUMMINS engines of 20000 hours before overhaul.
    With military engines - overpowered to obtain high power, the situation is many times worse than with industrial ones.
    I remember an attempt to adapt in-line engines from armored vehicles to industrial purposes (for graders, loaders, excavators), led to a complete fiasco - the resource of military "crafts" did not even reach 700 hours, which led to the refusal of conversion.
    The engine-building base in the Russian Federation is not just bad - it is miserable.
    For comparison, the PRC mastered the production and technology of engines of the series: Ricardo - Weichai Ricardo Engine (small and medium power R4-R6 series), Weichai Deutz and Weichai power (WD WP series from 2.3 liters to 65,7 liters), an unlicensed CAT series is produced 3306, joint production of Chongqing Cummins Engine Company (CCEC) heavy industrial engines and DCEC-Dongfeng Cummins Engine Company - medium industrial engines of 3-10 liters volume.
    That is, the PRC closes a very wide range of industrial diesel engines and has a choice of several manufacturers in terms of price and quality.
  • vick vickers
    vick vickers 30 June 2021 10: 21
    0
    I do not know who created it at ChTZ, but by all external signs it is the Balandin engine, created in the late 50s and early 60s for helicopters; characteristic features: V or X-shaped four-stroke internal combustion engine with a camber angle of 90 degrees, this feature is due to the fact that instead of KShM used "exact straight", ie instead of a connecting rod - a stock, in this regard, an interesting feature: 1X could have not only 4 combustion chambers, but also 8, and then the Xs were docked, like sections in a cast-iron heating radiator - what power is needed so much and dial; the diesel engine was among the options, but the engine did not go into the series - the turbines ripened, something like that.
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