Military Review

Sad refrain "We WERE the first"

198

"Holidays are over, everyday life has caught up with us ...". It is difficult to come up with a better epigraph than the words of Dmitry Revyakin. The celebration of the next anniversary of the beginning of the space age is over. And it took place under the refrain "We were the first." Billboards at all corners reminded of this, and television did not stand aside.


Were

This is the key word. We were the first. And now, when we are not second or even third in space, the word “were” sounds more and more offensive.

I specially looked at foreign publications. Quiet everything is so. Yes, in some places they remembered Gagarin. No hysteria. Well, yes, it was. Go ahead.

Only neighbors-Ukrainians amused, having arranged a mass hysterics on the topic “where would these Russians be without our Queen”. It was really funny, but it made me think. We are about the same trying to poke our primacy in the face of the whole world, as the Ukrainians are to us with Korolev. It's sad.

In general, the space race is a difficult thing. Akin, by the way, to boxing. In it, the championship must be confirmed constantly. Otherwise, you are not a champion, but an ex-champion. One of a long line going into history... There can only be one champion.

So Russia is now nothing more than such an ex-champion. And even dubious. Since the first were citizens of a completely different country. Succession is, of course, great, but ... It looks like (another ugly analogy) for the Cossacks, who do not consider it shameful to cling to the awards of their grandfathers. With space, we get about the same thing. We can't imagine anything ourselves, so at least we will adorn our grandfather's orders.

But until recently, until 2015, Russia was still the leader in space launches. And even a monopolist. However, the grandfather's inheritance, as practice shows everywhere, is being eaten up very quickly. Although in our case the backlog was such that it was enough for both the nineties and the beginning of the two thousandth.

But then the space race ceased to be such.

By the way, in fact, trillions of different currencies spent on it is wonderful. The space race turned out to be akin to the Olympics. It is also politicized. Victory in space is no worse than winning the Olympics, only it was more expensive. But in terms of prestige ...

Agree, than to go together to the Third World War and beat yourself up with rockets to the end of civilization, the countries of the two camps moved their confrontation into space. Although military experiments have not been done there, so far technology does not allow, everything is relatively calm in space. Even today it is difficult to imagine space wars, although, they say, some countries are ready for this. To hit someone else's satellite from an airplane with a rocket, to burn schemes with electronic warfare and stuff like that. No blasters - and thank God.

And here you understand that Space with a capital letter is not only a huge number of launches on rockets and ships, created half a century ago by people who have already left us. This is real daily work on new projects.
And this is where the Sadness begins. Also with a capital letter, because there is nothing to boast about 60 years after the beginning of the space age.

The most notable and noisily discussed development on the air is, of course, "Angara". A new launch vehicle, the development of which cost the country 160 billion rubles. The figure was not invented, from Vladimir Popovkin, who was in command of Roscosmos at the time.

So, "Angara" is kind of an undoubted achievement. The trouble is that launching it costs twice as much as the archaic and criticized Proton. And they know how to count money all over the world. And if today there are still people willing to use Protons, then it is somehow illogical to pay twice as much to put a satellite into orbit.

Of course, the commercialization of space is a serious thing, but when it comes to billions, it is clear that the price is just as important a factor as the reliability of the delivery vehicle into orbit.

And here the eternal monopoly established by the USSR and the USA, alas, was broken. Today, many countries are trying to save money and make money at the same time on launches. And that's okay too.

Abnormally different. It is not normal that Russia is losing today. And, unfortunately, it loses not only to countries such as the United States and China, but also to the private shop SpaceX, which generally begins to put the whole world on its ears with its prices. And it launches an incredible number of rockets into space at incredible prices.

And what about us? And in response to Rogozin's jokes on Twitter. Yes, of course, humor is good, but the trouble is, rockets do not fly on jokes. And you can humor as much as you like, but the space race is won by completely different moves.

Sad refrain "We WERE the first"

Through commercial programs for those who want but cannot, for example, launch their own satellites. It doesn't matter, weather, communications, internet, military. All countries need satellites, except perhaps the most backward ones.

And today, three-quarters of the world's cosmonautics or astronautics consists of just such commercial launches. That is, in the interests of a private client. The states, of course, must also invest in full, but they are far from the private sector. Navigators, various geodetic devices, radio, telephony, Internet, private television - all these are space programs of private users.

In terms of numbers, the cost of a satellite group in the commercial sector is up to 60% of all costs of commercial space exploration and up to 45% of the global space budget. In general, commercial astronautics is all about entertainment on Earth, not space.

Space exploration, flights to space bodies - this rests on the shoulders of the states participating in space programs. And here, too, everything is not very beautiful for us.

State space budgets total $ 84 billion a year. This is a quarter of all the cosmic waste of mankind. A kind of figure showing that the cost of spending on entertainment is much higher than spending on real space exploration.

Among the leaders in terms of spending, places are distributed as follows:
USA - $ 47,5 billion.
China - $ 10 billion
European Union - $ 10 billion
India - $ 4,2 billion
Russia - $ 3,6 billion

Now we have the sixth place. Unfortunately not honorable. This is just over one percent of the world's total space spending.

Now it is probably clear why there are only pleasant memories of 108 launches in 1982? Because in 2020 we mastered only 17. And for the period from 2015 to 2020 inclusive, Russia made 102 launches. That is, it is still less than the Soviet Union did in 1982.

Sad statistics. But alas, this is a fact. And it will only get worse, since not only is SpaceX dumping prices in the global space launch market, but also the US government has launched an attack on the space launch sector, planning an embargo on Russian launch vehicles from 2023.

This is not entirely clear, but in a nutshell, it will look like a breakdown in the sale of "Russian" Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft to Iran. There, if you remember, the deal was blocked due to the presence of American components. And since our "import substitution" could not replace more than 50% of imports in the Sukhoi Superjet 100 design, Iran will buy Boeings, with which there are no such problems.

In the case of launch vehicles, everything will look about the same. If the satellite has at least one microcircuit or board made in the USA, then America prohibits launching such a satellite on a Russian carrier. As the saying goes, "Velkom tu Elon Musk, his is cheaper and more reliable."

And with this "Roskosmos" in general and Rogozin in particular will not be able to do anything. Alas.

It's funny, but "Roskosmos", which Mr. Rogozin so successfully rules, simultaneously singing songs and joking on Twitter about the successes of the Americans, was created in the very year 2015, when the fall of the Russian space industry began.

Coincidence? Maybe.

Yes, before Roscosmos there was the Federal Space Agency, which was collected from what remained of the Soviet legacy in Russia. And they put Dmitry Rogozin in charge of the structure.

So much has been said about the head of Roscosmos that there is no point in repeating it. And so everything is clear.

The failed politician has made good progress in issuing loud and extraordinary statements “on the mountain”. Here is a proposal to the States to launch astronauts to the ISS using a trampoline, and a promise to the Romanian authorities to return at the helm of a bomber, and a proposal to the European Space Agency to fly on brooms. But the most epic, perhaps, was made in 2018, when Rogozin stated that astronauts had checked the hole in the ISS hull.

But how Rogozin “works” on Twitter is known and so, I repeat. It probably makes sense to see how Roscosmos works under his leadership.

During the period from 2009 to 2014, the Federal Space Agency made at least 30 launches per year. The exception was 2012, when there were 24. Commercial, state-owned - not so important. It is important that there were launches.

Since 2015, it has never been possible to make 30 launches in a year. Since the appearance of Roskosmos instead of the FKA, the curve of the number of launches has gone down.

And if you look at the dynamics since 2018, when Rogozin began to steer, then by 2021 there were a total of 62 launches.

For comparison: the USA had 89 launches in the same time, China made 112.

There is, however, one positive figure: in these three years there was only one unsuccessful launch. On the one hand, this is great. On the other hand, it is clear that the fewer launches are carried out, the less the possibility of an accident becomes.

But accidents are quite normal, they happen to everyone. The question is solely in the quantity, which indicates the quality of the work.

How many billions of dollars have already flown into space, or rather, scattered into the debris of accidents at Roscosmos, you can calculate, but not necessary. Accidents do happen.

But sooner or later they will calculate how many billions flew into the black hole of the Vostochny cosmodrome. Here, everything is well illustrated by the data of the General Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation, which speaks of 140 criminal cases opened on the facts of violations during the construction of the cosmodrome and the damage figure of 10 billion rubles.

Not bad so.

And in general, the statistics for Vostochny are more than sad. To spend 300 billion rubles on the first stage and to make SEVEN launches from the cosmodrome in five years - what is it like?

This is true. This is in Russian. The money has been spent, but when it comes to having it worked out and returned, it's like in Russian cinema. Very difficult.

It is clear that sooner or later, in 10-15 years, the Vostochny cosmodrome will be brought to mind. Vbahav into it another 300-400 billion. And the launches will start with it. Provided that there will be something to launch.

But for some reason, there are doubts about what will be launched. All too quickly Russia has lost its piece of the cosmic pie. Moreover, no one took it away, they surrendered without a fight. When money from the same Americans who had stopped their Space Shuttle program flowed into the Roscosmos cashier's office, for some reason the dollars did not go to the good. New missiles, more economical and reliable, more environmentally friendly or something, did not appear ... New ships did not appear.

Yes, Mr. Rogozin had a lot of stuff about brooms and trampolines, there was a lot of joy. But now Elon Musk's developments have appeared, and how they appeared ... Of course, we had Rogozin's followers who spoke on the topic "That's when ... then we'll talk", but "when" became "today" and there is nothing more to talk about than the fact that in 2010 Russia carried out 43% of launches, and in 2020 8,5%.

As they say - comments are superfluous.

And if we talk about the fact that a ton of cargo launched into orbit by the ancient "Proton" costs 2,8 million dollars, and a ton on the "Falcon" Mask of 1,4 million of the same dollars, then it becomes clear why Russia began to lose its positions so rapidly in the commercial sector.

Nothing personal just business.

It is possible that SpaceX will also take away from Roscosmos and launch people into orbit. On May 30, 2020, exactly what happened that did not believe in Roscosmos. But two people were flown by the Crew Dragon to the ISS. And Russia's almost ten-year monopoly on the delivery of crews to the ISS has ended.

So much for the trampolines with brooms. And there is nothing to oppose at all.

In principle, all that we are seeing now is unsubstantiated conversations that "in 20 .. we are ...." and further down the list. We will launch our orbital station, fly to the Moon, build a city on the Moon, fly to Mars and Venus, and so on.

What can I say, in 2020 they officially announced the start of work on the creation of an interplanetary automatic station, which will fly to Venus in 2029.

Who there in 2029 will remember what they promised in 2020, right?

Even if Medvedev, who was still prime minister in 2019, said that "Stop chatting about where we will fly in 30," then what to say about those who understand what's what? And Putin last year also spoke out about the disruption of the development of the heavy missile "Yenisei" ...

The first satellite, the first living beings in space, the first manned flight into space, the first spacewalk, the first launch of an apparatus that reached the Moon, the first group flight with a docking, the first woman in space - all these are the achievements of the Soviet Union, whose successor is sometimes proud of himself called in Russia. But for some reason, against the background of those achievements, Russian cosmonautics does not look at all. Well, or looks like a poor relative who has passed the remnants of its former greatness.

And when, in March 2021, the head of the Accounts Chamber, Kudrin, reported that 30 billion had again been stolen from Roscosmos ...

We talked a lot, and apparently we will still talk a lot about the fact that something needs to be done in the Russian cosmonautics. It’s not too late. All is not yet lost. Although from year to year there are more and more conversations in the style of “Forgive us, Yura!”.

But the fact is, yes, the space that was so close is getting further and further. And you know, it’s probably good that neither Yuri Alekseevich nor Sergei Pavlovich will see what is happening in their former homeland. Our shame and shame is our business. And they did everything. what they could and even a little more.

Yes, once we WERE the first ... And what's the point?
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 April 15 2021 09: 07
    +14
    Sad refrain "We WERE the first"
    So I should say that it is not the time to be sad, the time to work ... but somehow there is no certainty that somewhere at the top, they are ready / want to hear it.
    It is very likely that they only want to hear our national indignation at the accursed West ... but if it has already reached us that OUR troubles, just here we have roots, causes and consequences ???
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS April 15 2021 09: 15
      +24
      Quote: rocket757
      somewhere up there, ready to hear it

      Somewhere up there, Rogozin was put in charge of space, this is where the attitude to the industry is expressed. To Space! This journalist should have been appointed to the post of editor-in-chief of the Murzilka magazine, so let him humor himself as much as he can.
      1. Far B
        Far B April 15 2021 09: 29
        +32
        Somewhere up there, numerous Rogozins are put in charge of the most various important industries, defining them according to one criterion - devotion to the Body of the irreplaceable. The result, like gritso, is evident - and not only in space, but wherever you actually stick it. Aircraft building, shipbuilding, any other building. The fans of the Solntselikiy have, perhaps, only one consolation - Rosatom. And, yes - even agriculture with a record harvest of grain (in the dire situation of animal husbandry, yes).
        Py.Sy. On the other hand, Rosstat announced yesterday that the level of poverty in Russia has dropped. No, well, you need to be a complete Rosstat to issue such a pearl with the largest drop in real incomes of the population since 2014. However, the main thing is that the unsinkable rower should like what has been said, and there at least the grass will not grow.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter April 15 2021 09: 46
          +20
          Quote: Dalny V
          On the other hand, Rosstat announced yesterday that the level of poverty in Russia has dropped. No, well, you need to be a complete Rosstat to issue such a pearl with the largest drop in real incomes of the population since 2014.

          Rosbrechstat still forgets about the unprecedented unnatural mortality of the country's indigenous population. Under the promises of the rower and the applause of the turboputriots, we are dying out at an accelerated pace.
          1. military_cat
            military_cat April 15 2021 09: 51
            +23
            Since there will undoubtedly appear in the comments those wishing to tell that SpaceX is unprofitable and supported by subsidies from NASA, I invite those who are interested to take a look at this news:

            Experts from the Bauman Moscow State Technical University have confirmed the economic payback of Elon Musk's project to launch small satellites on Falcon 9 rockets at a fixed price and on a regular basis, according to the theses of the specialists' report published in the collection of Academic Readings on Cosmonautics, which is at the disposal of RIA Novosti ...
            (https://ria.ru/20210403/mask-1604055896.html)
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 April 15 2021 10: 09
              +11
              Quote: military_cat
              Since there will undoubtedly appear in the comments wishing to tell that

              It will appear among those who yell, throw their hats and blame the "rotten west" for everything ... have you noticed such among us?
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana April 15 2021 11: 47
                -4
                First of all, you need to start with an ideology that UNOFFICIALLY dominates the Russian Federation and undermines its economy everywhere. Namely.

                For 40 years and more, the world has been dominated by the manipulist colonial-bourgeois doctrinaire ideology of the American economist Milton Friedman. "Monetarism" (i.e. bourgeois pursuit of financial profits).
                But never one cannot equate the concept of real capitalism with all its shortcomings with the doctrinaire idea of ​​the American M. Friedman, set forth in his book "Capitalism and Freedom", in the form of a kind of speculative social project that is being implemented in order to build a supposedly ideally just capitalism on Earth throughout the world. By what means?
                Due to the alleged existence in the world of some anarchist absolutely "free" from everyone and every world market, which is supposedly absolutely "clean" from profanities and dishonesty both on the part of the participants in the capital market, goods (services) and labor, and from pressure on them a nation state. And at the same time, Friedman assumes that all market participants free from the state are initially at all times equal in their life start and can always become rich, if they just want it. This is pure utopia and bluff!
                Behind this attempt by M. Friedman to whitewash capitalism lies a very definite goal, which was adopted by the apologists of Washington. Namely.
                The purpose of this American bluff is to make the sovereign countries "indigenous" for the United States, uncontrollably and duty-free by their governments, mistakenly, free and defenseless from competition, open access for US multinational companies to their domestic markets for the sale of foreign goods and the purchase of "indigenous" wealth by foreigners , enterprises and natural resources.
                In this case, the reduction of native state property to the maximum - to "0" - is promoted by the "market people" exclusively as a public good. For the state supposedly does not need to control anything, there is no need to punish anyone, and there is no need to regulate trade and production either. That at the same time all members of society will become such honest and law-abiding entrepreneurs that therefore it will no longer be necessary to protect the population from swindlers, thieves, robbers and murderers. And that is why the supposedly national state, as an anachronism, will disappear by itself as unnecessary, and there is no need to defend it at all. For the distribution of material goods "from above" at the state level is not required, because everything will be regulated by this "ideal" capitalist market. Well, those who did not fit into the market are already their problems. Let, they say, they survive on their own, as they can. These include, in particular, all the so-called. "superfluous" people: pensioners, disabled people, children, etc. - all those who "did not fit into the market." On the other hand, they should be "happy" with their freedom from the fattening abstract-bureaucratic state that has been pressing over them for centuries in the way that anarchists have always dreamed of it for centuries.

                Only the insane, compradors and traitors to their Motherland can professionally believe in such an idea of ​​the alleged existence in the world of a certain EXTERNAL EXTERNAL control of the nation state.

                TOTAL. Oh, however, all this M. Friedman's ideology about the alleged existence in the world of the so-called. "free" and "clean" market is an anarchist propaganda of the American establishment to decompose the national security of sovereign states to their complete elimination and subjugation of their resources in favor of US multinational companies. Unfortunately, under Yeltsin, this ideology was unofficially adopted by the Russian ruling elite as a STATE ideology. It is implemented in practice by the government of the Russian Federation, the guarantor of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, in the State Duma and the Federation Council. BUT HSE is the forge of bourgeois young cadres in this comprador economy and its apologists.
                Society has not yet matured to understand this pseudo-market essence of what is happening.
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 April 15 2021 11: 58
                  +7
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  First of all, you need to start with ideology,

                  It will never reach the silent / resigned majority that nothing ALIEN, imposed on their heads, alien in form and in essence, NEVER brought ANYTHING good to ANYONE !!! But misfortunes, misfortunes, as many and without measure!
                  Here are just to repeat all this, as if in a void, it is useless ... I just want to say \ remind "We will go different \ our own way !!!"
                  The most IMPORTANT question remains, when, where and for whom ???
                  1. Tatyana
                    Tatyana April 15 2021 13: 55
                    +2
                    Quote: rocket757
                    "We will go different / our own way !!!"
                    The most IMPORTANT question remains, when, where and for whom ???

                    It is most important! For this, there must be an appropriate political party - with its own goals, with its own scientifically sound theoretical base as a guide to action, with your own political forces! There is no such political party in the country yet.




                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 April 15 2021 14: 35
                      +3
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      There is no such political party in the country yet.

                      That's right ... I'm already tired of repeating that it is necessary to UNITE! Party, movement, but even a chorus ... we need to build a unifying political structure !!! It will not work in another way now.
                      The System can only be fought SYSTEMALLY! Otherwise, you can not pyrkatsya!
                      Proletarians, working people of the country, unite!
              2. Artyom Karagodin
                Artyom Karagodin April 15 2021 13: 00
                -8
                Despite the fact that the state of the space industry is depressing, and Rogozin's attempts to restore order, of which so far only a decrease in the accident rate during launches can be noted, are greatly spoiled by his populist statements and an attempt to upload his songs on the official website of Roscosmos, with Roman it is hardly possible agree to everything. We are the third space power in the world, and we have not yet lost the potential to grow in the ranking.

                Yes, there are many well-founded fears about the future, but these are still fears, not a diagnosis. It may well be that the degradation will continue if Rogozin and the company continue to share epoch-making plans instead of real deeds, but is it worth it now to fall into "all-prophecy" like Roman? It is not autumn yet, and it is too early to count chickens. In 5 years, it will already be possible to understand how everything will go on.
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 April 15 2021 13: 36
                  +5
                  Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                  Yes, there are many well-founded fears about the future, but these are still fears, not a diagnosis.

                  Are you not sure or are you going to make an accurate diagnosis after the "autopsy"?
                  1. Artyom Karagodin
                    Artyom Karagodin April 15 2021 15: 45
                    -3
                    Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                    In 5 years, it will already be possible to understand how everything will go on.
                2. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine April 15 2021 20: 21
                  +6
                  Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                  We are the third space power in the world, and we have not yet lost the potential to grow in the ranking.

                  Fifth to sixth. USA, EU, Japan, China, India.
                  Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                  In 5 years, it will already be possible to understand how everything will go on.

                  Some have understood this for a long time.
                3. Pilat2009
                  Pilat2009 April 20 2021 23: 03
                  -1
                  Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                  In 5 years, it will already be possible to understand how everything will go on.

                  It will get worse further: the last qualified personnel who work for 30 thousand will leave.
            2. Genry
              Genry April 15 2021 11: 38
              -1
              Quote: military_cat
              Experts from the Bauman Moscow State Technical University have confirmed the economic payback of Elon Musk's project to launch small satellites on Falcon 9 rockets at a fixed price and on a regular basis

              You can recoup everything if the customer pays for your wishes in full.
              A more interesting question is how these prices compare with the prices of Roscosmos.
          2. Dimy4
            Dimy4 April 15 2021 11: 15
            +3
            Under the promises of the rower and the applause of the turboputriots, we are dying out at an accelerated pace.

            And young men are dying, they do not live up to 55 years old. Not drunks / drug addicts.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 April 15 2021 11: 53
              .
              From what do they die before the age of 55?
              1. Dmitry V.
                Dmitry V. April 16 2021 14: 20
                +4
                Quote: Vadim237
                From what do they die before the age of 55?


                The mechanic died - 54 years old, cancer - 2 years could not be diagnosed, although he went to doctors for 2 years in a row. Found already in the 4th stage, not operable, died at home for half a year. He left a widow and an underage son.

                A friend died - did not live up to 42 years old, a retired police major - cancer.
                Found it by accident. He was treated in Israel, went into remission. in 2020 they closed the message, had to be treated in St. Petersburg - died after chemotherapy - kidneys failed, liver - did not last a week. Co-workers were buried with a guard of honor and fireworks. Remained a widow, two minor daughters.

                In Russia, cancer is treated with drugs of the 2nd generation, in Israel of the 3rd generation, in the USA - of the 4th generation. In Russia, the doctor said so - if you have money - go to Israel for treatment - here you are doomed.
                In Israel, he was told - cancer is not a sentence, but ... the borders were closed.
          3. I do not care
            I do not care April 15 2021 11: 20
            +5
            Someone calculated, - said Yuri Gagarin, - that the power of the rocket engines, which put the red-star "Vostok" into orbit, was equal to the combined thrust of the entire horse population of pre-revolutionary Russia. This coincidence, although witty, is sad. A country of backwardness and despotism, which was tsarist Russia, could not have escaped into space ... To rise to the stars, it is not enough to break the fetters of gravity - it was necessary first to throw off the shackles in which labor, reason, and human soul languished before October! It was not for nothing that the Communards were called “people storming the sky” ... The storming of space did not begin on April 12, 1961, when a man saw the open Universe, and not even on October 4, 1957, when the first satellite took off from the Earth. It all started with a shot from the Aurora, with the storming of the Winter Palace.

            So many years have passed, but the relevance has only increased.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 April 15 2021 16: 42
              .
              "The country of backwardness and despotism, which was tsarist Russia, could not break out into space ..." which then led to other catastrophic consequences in the form of the Great Patriotic War, the beginning of which the Bolsheviks simply n ... or what, as a result, led to huge losses of population and infrastructure and huge waste of resources for restoration.
              1. I do not care
                I do not care April 15 2021 17: 03
                0
                As I understand it, you have now blamed the USSR not only for the colossal losses incurred by the Nazi invaders, but also for unleashing the Second World War, brilliantly.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 April 15 2021 23: 18
                  -6
                  Not the USSR, but the Bolsheviks - who in 1917 had all the chances to finish off Germany, but they treacherously requested peace, thereby creating the basis for a new big war, and the seed of this war in the form of Hitler was already ready to sprout on this basis.
                  1. I do not care
                    I do not care April 15 2021 23: 43
                    +3
                    read the primary sources or listen to Spitsin, maybe change your mind.
                  2. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 April 16 2021 22: 33
                    +4
                    Cho write there right away that the Bolsheviks are always to blame for everything. Your liberal schizophrenia allows you to do that.
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 April 17 2021 00: 37
                      -4
                      I'm not looking for a consequence of problems, but their root - the root of everything that happened to Russia since 1917th it is Tsar Nikolasha Spineless, he is the clearest example of what happens to the country when soft, indecisive weaklings rise to power.
                      "Cho already write there right away that the Bolsheviks are always to blame for everything" - This is your schizophrenia to me it is not necessary to fasten it.
                      1. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 08: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        I'm not looking for a consequence of problems, but their root - the root of everything that happened to Russia since 1917

                        You are looking not for real reasons, but for an explanation convenient for your capitalist consciousness.
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        This is your schizophrenia to me it is not necessary to fasten it.

                        You perfectly understood that I was slightly exaggerating. Slightly.
              2. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 April 16 2021 22: 26
                +3
                Quote: Vadim237
                She would break free

                Horse-drawn?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 April 17 2021 00: 42
                  -4
                  In Tsarist Russia there were already machine-building factories and machine-tool building and even the production of engines and machines was not massive, but a start was made and if it were not for the events of 1917 and the subsequent collapse of the plunder of the country, industrialization would have gone much earlier and with much smaller losses than from 1928 to 1941 ... The Bolsheviks did not carry out industrialization from scratch, but with the help of all the same foreign production of equipment and engineers.
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 08: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    but a start was made, and if it were not for the events of 1917 and the subsequent collapse of the plunder of the country, industrialization would have gone much earlier and with much smaller losses

                    Why do you think so? But for me, a much more realistic version of the disappearance of the country and the Russian people in general. When the stalled industrialization stretched out for decades and crippled by crises leads to the fact that we generally cannot delay the offensive of the army of fascist Germany and the remnants of our troops are trying to achieve somewhere in the region of the Ural mountains. And our bourgeois government capitulates following the example of the governments of civilized Europe, or simply runs away leaving the country like Polish cheap stuff.
        2. lego2
          lego2 April 15 2021 10: 19
          .
          At the expense of personal loyalty. Under any power, this is the first indicator of selection, if you are not personally betrayed, then you will pull in the other direction, as did the previous leaders of Roscosmos, and it will turn out like in that fable.
          At the expense of cereals, any person related to agriculture understands that first the cereals, and then the livestock, so do not lament the sofa zootechnician, but try to raise a cat at least.
          About Rosatom, why not be proud if you have something?
          At the expense of income, everything is learned in comparison, where do you think, in the world, since 2014, the income of the population has grown, or is the decline a global trend?
          Well, about Rogozin, did you have something personal to him or did they not take you to Rogozin at one time?
          1. Kronos
            Kronos April 15 2021 10: 59
            +4
            Yes, incomes grew annually in countries before the pandemic, and as the ruble fell, only the most insignificant currencies depreciated.
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 12: 51
            +5
            Quote: lego2
            At the expense of personal loyalty. This is the first indicator of selection under any power

            Yes, but loyalty should come after professionalism, not the other way around.
            Quote: lego2
            At the expense of cereals, any person related to agriculture understands that first the cereals, and then the livestock

            And then when? When all the grain is allowed for export, and then they are perplexed that the price of fodder has grown, meat, eggs, cereals are becoming more expensive?
        3. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 12: 46
          +5
          Quote: Dalny V
          The fans of the Solntselikiy have, perhaps, only one consolation - Rosatom.

          No, here the other day a friend argued to me that the construction of the LNG plant is a technological breakthrough, and not an acceleration in the sale of resources. laughing
          For seeds and breeding material, the dependence on imports is about 60-70%, for medicines the same figures. Russia's share in the high-tech market is less than 1%. Yes, on all fronts, a failure, but victorious fanfare in the media. Ugh.
          "Forgive us Yura, we fucked everything up" is a popular phrase nowadays.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 April 15 2021 16: 51
            -6
            The share of Russia in the high-tech market is less than 1% And that Russia is included in 16 countries that produce 60% of world GDP, the remaining 179 countries - 40%. So failures on all fronts are nothing more than a suction from the finger, and yes, the sale of resources is a common practice all over the world, including LNG, and a technological breakthrough is the production of its own cryogenic equipment for this industry, and Russia is engaged in and produces this.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 April 16 2021 22: 37
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              So failures on all fronts are nothing more than a suction from the finger

              When you run to overthrow Putin in the forefront following the results of all the jerks without swinging, do not forget about these words of yours.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 April 17 2021 00: 47
                -2
                And why the heck I need this Putin himself will leave in 2024, put Mishustin or Kozak in his place as presidential candidates from United Russia and they will vote for them. To overthrow if anyone is, then only such fainting as you and even then your success will be zero.
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 April 17 2021 08: 59
                  0
                  Why the heck, then, this whole circus with zeroes?
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  To overthrow if anyone is, then only such fainting as you and even then your success will be zero.

                  No no. It will be you and those like you who will overthrow. Because this is the logic of capitalism. And I would be glad to overthrow, not only Putin, but all of you Atlanteans who spread their ears in a crowd, but the objective circumstances are such that I will not succeed with all my desire.
            2. Nazar
              Nazar April 19 2021 07: 30
              -1
              Vadim237 - RF GDP is the extraction of raw materials. LNG goes only "to take away", for the citizens of the Russian Federation it is not. And there are no taxes on this either - Michelson was exempted from taxes for several years.
              The construction of a super-port in Ust-Luga is also "everything to take away", the expansion of BAM is coal "to take away" to Asia, the Amur GPP is being built right on the border with China - it is convenient to send the products of the gas processing plant "to take away" to China. Russia will not get anything from all these hyper-construction projects, only a few judo cellists will become several billion more richer, natural resources will go over the hill, and the money for them will remain there, over the hill, as it happens now. And so far, no one is going to change anything.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 April 15 2021 09: 33
        +11
        Even a person who is positive in all respects, who wants everything good, against everything bad, without the necessary COMPETENCIES, will spew out a stream of everything, different, from beautiful to different nonsense, precisely because he is NOT COMPETENT in this complex topic ...
        In general, there is a complete feeling that they will give him a ride / blow him like a sucker and ... in general, it is a big mistake to approach the personnel issue in this way ...
        how can I not remember - "we do not need the smart ones. We need the faithful" - they attribute what was said to one of the Russian emperors, although it was rather the Strugatskys who invented it ...
      3. lego2
        lego2 April 15 2021 10: 00
        .
        Why didn't Ragozin please you? Should I have put you on?
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter April 15 2021 09: 41
      +8
      Quote: rocket757
      It is very likely that they only want to hear our national indignation at the accursed West ... but if it has already reached us that OUR troubles, just here we have roots, causes and consequences ???

      Camrad hi , please note that not the entire electorate has yet become imbued with internal problems and is waiting for the explosion of Yellowstone.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 15 2021 09: 53
        +9
        Welcome soldier
        The upper ones will not be engaged in educating the electorate, this is EXPECTED!
        The question is, what will be done by those who are offended FOR POWER ... and it’s not in the wording, slogans, goals proclaimed, but in specific CASES!
        I can't suggest anything better than turning to textbooks on class struggle written by our predecessors. You don't need to invent anything, everything you need has already been written ... you can add your own, take advantage of the opportunities that progress in the invention of communication means provides us with.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter April 15 2021 10: 15
          +5
          Quote: rocket757
          The question is, what will be done by those who are offended FOR POWER ... and it’s not in the wording, slogans, goals proclaimed, but in specific CASES!
          I can't offer anything better than turning to textbooks on class struggle,

          Does it remind you of anyone?
          “In any crisis, the bourgeoisie will always help the opportunists, suppress — without stopping at anything, with the most illegal, brutal military measures — to suppress — the revolutionary part of the proletariat. Opportunists are the bourgeois enemies of the proletarian revolution, who in peacetime conduct their bourgeois work secretly, huddle inside the workers' parties, and in times of crisis immediately turn out to be open allies of the entire united bourgeoisie, from the conservative to the most radical and democratic, from free-thinking to religious and clerical ... Whoever has not understood this truth after the events we are experiencing is hopelessly deceiving both himself and the workers. In this case, personal shifting is inevitable, but it must be remembered that their significance is determined by the existence of a stratum and trend of petty-bourgeois opportunists. The social-chauvinists Hyndman, Vandervelde, Guesde, Plekhanov, Kautsky would have had no meaning if their spineless and vulgar speeches in defense of bourgeois patriotism were not picked up by whole social strata of opportunists and whole clouds of bourgeois newspapers and bourgeois politicians.
          PSS. VI Lenin vol. 26 p. 114
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 15 2021 10: 35
            +7
            Quote: Stroporez
            Does it remind you of anyone?

            So nothing new, the enemies of the proletariat did not come up with ... they gained experience, they have more instruments of influence !!! but in fact the same thing - Divide and Conquer !!! - when this does not help, methods of influence become harsh without restrictions.
            Therefore, I can argue that the TEXTBOOKS that were written by our predecessors remain relevant now, slightly modernize the methodology, in the spirit of the times and can be used to the fullest.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter April 15 2021 10: 41
              +4
              Quote: rocket757
              Therefore, I can argue that the TEXTBOOKS that were written by our predecessors remain relevant now, slightly modernize the methodology, in the spirit of the times and can be used to the fullest.

              In general, it seems to me that it is written for us:
              "Only scoundrels or fools can think that the proletariat must first win the majority in elections carried out under the yoke of the bourgeoisie, under the yoke of wage slavery, and then must win power. This is the height of stupidity or hypocrisy, this is the replacement of class struggle and revolution with votes under the old system , under the old regime.
              The proletariat wages its class struggle without waiting for a vote to start a strike, although the sympathy of the majority of the working people (and therefore of the majority of the population) is necessary for the full success of a strike. The proletariat is waging its class struggle, overthrowing the bourgeoisie, without waiting for any preliminary (and carried out by the bourgeoisie under its yoke) voting, and the proletariat knows very well that for the success of its revolution, for the successful overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the sympathy of the majority of the working people is undoubtedly necessary (and therefore , and the majority of the population).
              Parliamentary cretins and modern Louis Blanc "demand" a mandatory vote and a mandatory vote by the bourgeoisie to determine this sympathy of the majority of the working people. But this is the look of pedants, the dead, or clever deceivers.
              Living life, the history of real revolutions shows that the "sympathy of the majority of the working people" very often cannot be proved by any votes (not to mention the votes made by the exploiters, when the exploiter is "equal" with the exploited!). Very often, the "sympathy of the majority of the working people" is not proved at all by voting, but by the growth of one of the parties, or the growth of the number of its members. "
              PSS. IN AND. Lenin, vol. 39, p. 219.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 April 15 2021 10: 50
                +6
                Quote: Stroporez
                "Only scoundrels or fools can think that the proletariat must first win the majority in elections carried out under the yoke of the bourgeoisie, under the yoke of wage slavery, and then must win power.

                In order to reach the moment, the state when it will be possible to begin to act, it is necessary to carry out a huge UNIFIED, EXPLANATORY WORK ...
                The definition of "mighty bunch" must have a concrete expression in numbers ...
                There are very, very many hesitant, undecided, but they can only JOIN, only to a specific, significant POWER.
                Without preparatory WORK, nothing and nothing .... you CANNOT count on chance!
              2. Arlen
                Arlen April 15 2021 12: 22
                +7
                And nevertheless, the Bolsheviks did not boycott the Constituent Assembly, but participated in the elections both before and *) after the conquest of political power by the proletariat. That these elections gave extremely valuable (and highly useful for the proletariat) political results, I dare to hope, I proved in the article named above, which analyzed in detail the data on the elections to the Constituent Assembly in Russia.

                The conclusion from this is absolutely indisputable: it has been proven that even a few weeks before the victory of the Soviet Republic, even after such a victory, participation in the bourgeois-democratic parliament not only does not harm the revolutionary proletariat, but makes it easier for him to prove to the backward masses that they deserve dispersal, facilitate the success of their dispersal , facilitate the "political elimination" of bourgeois parliamentarism.

                VI Lenin "Childhood disease of" leftism "in communism"
                In the quote you quoted from Lenin, the main thing is as follows:
                The proletariat wages its class struggle without waiting for a vote to start a strike - although the sympathy of the majority of the working people (and therefore of the majority of the population) is necessary for the full success of the strike.
                Lenin specifically points out that success requires the sympathy of the majority. How can you get the sympathy of the majority? Fakes or explanatory work? Shouts that everything is bad in Russia and there is nothing good and the West is not our enemy (although the West has been trying to destroy us for centuries) or evidence that this system is leading the country to a dead end from which there is only one way out - the collapse of the country and the complete enslavement of the people by Western masters? What is true and correct is to say that everything is fine in Ukraine and we do not need to fight with them and overthrow their power, or, according to the latest statement of the ROT FRONTA: ... the situation in the country under an openly fascist nationalist government is extremely difficult, strict prohibitive laws are in force, many progressive political and public figures were not only repressed, but also simply killed.

                But the struggle does not stop even in such conditions. By available means, our comrades from the Workers' Front of Ukraine are campaigning, holding pickets, and issuing Iskra newsletters (Iskra No. 65, Iskra No. 66). We express our solidarity to our comrades in the struggle ...
                ?
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir April 15 2021 09: 56
      +11
      They were the first, the Soviet ones. And we Russians understand, neither launch a stream, nor build an aircraft carrier. But now the best talkers in the world. The first did not speak, but did, and we all yelled.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 15 2021 10: 04
        +1
        Not everything yet, but we are moving in the "right" direction .... the question is, who will be able to put a shoe under the wheels of our train, and then attach and pull the locomotive, start moving in the right direction ???
      2. lego2
        lego2 April 15 2021 10: 23
        .
        This aircraft carrier was given to you, what is it for you?
        And the stream, by the way, is already the fourth, if both are Turkish.
      3. Cosm22
        Cosm22 April 15 2021 10: 56
        +13
        Right.
        According to the announcement, Russia is indeed the first country in the world.
      4. Per se.
        Per se. April 15 2021 10: 57
        +14
        Quote: Gardamir
        They were the first, the Soviet ones. But we Russians don't understand

        Soviet society was a society of CREATORS.


        The current system creates a society of CONSUMERS, from what the creators managed to create. Therefore...
      5. Vadim237
        Vadim237 April 15 2021 11: 57
        .
        We have already launched two streams and JV 2 will launch the same - Russia does not fucking need an aircraft carrier to restore ground airfields around the perimeter easier and cheaper.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 12: 55
          +7
          Quote: Vadim237
          We have already launched two streams and JV 2 will launch the same - Russia does not need a fucking aircraft carrier

          Maybe Vadik will be enough to talk nonsense, exposing an increase in the capacity of selling resources as an achievement? fool
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 April 15 2021 16: 56
            -6
            You are talking complete nonsense - Russia will wake up in a market economy and the budget will not draw money out of thin air, and if we do not promote our goods and raw materials to other markets, competitors of the same USA will take them easy with their LNG.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 18: 55
              +1
              Oh Vadik, did you start poking? laughing Did you try to turn on your head before talking about the need to promote raw materials? This is the psychology of a corrupt woman, Vadik. You think too narrowly and limitedly, especially when you try to mention Russia's GDP in comparison. What are you proud of? By the rate of sale of the Motherland?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 April 15 2021 23: 28
                -5
                You told me nothing but some kind of garbage again sucked out of the finger and did not answer anything - - specifics in the case are zero. And yes, you yourself need to turn on your head because it feels like the USSR is stuck with its planned distribution economy. Hack the market economy on your nose now that I buy from Russia and sell, including raw materials and yes, 60% of what is mined goes to domestic needs.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 April 16 2021 05: 35
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Hack the market economy on your nose now that I buy from Russia and sell, including raw materials and yes, 60% of what is mined goes to domestic needs.

                  People like you, Vadik, will find an excuse to trade in close relatives on the avenue. After all, there are no other ways to replenish the budget, right? wink
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 April 17 2021 00: 49
                    -3
                    "People like you, Vadik, will find justification by selling close relatives on the avenue." - Glovu did not try to treat him there, apparently, the displacement of the "disk"
                2. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 April 16 2021 22: 44
                  +2
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  in the USSR was stuck with its planned distribution economy.

                  Is this the one who is stuck in the 90s with his naive childish belief in the invisible hand of the market and other fair competition telling us? Is it okay that even such a hardened supporter of the market economy as Aganbegyan is whistling about state planning?
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 April 17 2021 00: 54
                    -1
                    I have been in this market for 30 years - for 14 years my business, production and investments, and yes, I have fair competition, I pay taxes and sleep peacefully, the business develops and you don't have to believe in anything - you have to work and do. Is Aganbegyan whistling about state planning? Let him whistle - I don't care about him, he will whistle and finish whistling.
    4. lego2
      lego2 April 15 2021 10: 02
      .
      Something is too abstruse, funeral in tone, but there is no specifics.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 15 2021 10: 06
        +7
        Read the TEXTBOOKS, educate yourself, then ... you will ask strange questions .... less.
    5. astepanov
      astepanov April 15 2021 12: 11
      +9
      The trouble is not only in Roskosmos and Rogozin. The same can be said about many things, but the answer is the same: "There is no money, but you are holding on." Where is Armata? Where are the widely announced new super-duper weapon systems, if the SU-57 with the second stage engine did not go to the troops? Why, having created the world's first vaccine against coronavirus, we are trailing in the top ten countries in terms of the percentage of vaccinated population - it is not for nothing that the media are trying to keep quiet about this. And again - because domestic pharmacology was killed, just as microelectronics, mechanical engineering and machine-tool building, science, education were killed, and the list goes on. No money. There is no water in Saratov for months - because the nets are worn out to the extreme. And the same thing happens in hundreds of cities. There is no money ... The worn-out housing stock is the one that was populated in the USSR free of charge. Yes, now you can buy housing, but with a standard cost per square meter of housing of 50 thousand rubles and a median salary of Russians of 30 thousand rubles a month, a young family, in principle, cannot buy housing without getting into poverty and mortgage bondage for decades, which is not found anywhere else. in the world - and therefore the demographic problem cannot be resolved. There is no money ... There is also no money for the indexation of pensions for working pensioners. And it doesn’t matter that the constitution doesn’t say a word about indexation being only for those who are not working. The law was not written for poverty. No money, but you hold on ...
      But there is money for the crazy palaces (I'm not talking about the one about which the recent settler of the colony raised a furor, but about those that are full in the suburban guarded settlements). For amusements, cruises, yachts, girls ...
      When the USSR was slammed, it was done with screams about the "damned scoop" and cries of "Eh, let us live." Three decades have passed. What, have they healed? Viktor Stepanych was right, the earth was glass wool to him: "We wanted the best, it turned out as always." But it seems to me that those who robbed wanted something else.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 15 2021 12: 17
        +1
        So we all complain about everything here ...
      2. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth April 15 2021 13: 08
        +1
        having created the world's first vaccine against coronavirus, we are trailing in the fifth ten countries in terms of the percentage of vaccinated population

        Because they take it out. There, over the hill, they have families, money, recognition. There, at the first call, they send the best epidemiologists to fight the coronavirus, there they send vaccines, gold, timber, diamonds.
        A record for the export of metal - in Russia, steel prices are increasing every day, a record for the export of wheat - rubber bread is on the shelves, a record for the export of polymers - an increase in prices for plastic, and this is a rise in the price of everything, because the packaging is now all plastic.
        Should we be surprised at the low rates of vaccination, if everything goes to export first of all?
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 April 15 2021 14: 52
          +1
          Go get vaccinated with us, there is a vaccine, there are NO queues ALREADY! so try to send some there ... as the enemy will look at you.
          1. astepanov
            astepanov April 15 2021 18: 19
            +2
            Where is it with you? Do you speak for the whole of Russia, or for your city, region, etc.? Do you think that vaccine deposits have formed in the refrigerators of polyclinics? Search the Net: vaccination is taking place exactly at the rate at which the vaccine is being supplied - except, perhaps, Moscow. The supplies to Moscow are better than to other regions, due to the high population density and its huge number and, as a result, the increased epidemiological danger. Summary: the pace of vaccination is not limited at all by the reluctance of people to get vaccinated, but by the supply of vaccine.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 April 15 2021 18: 47
              +1
              I am writing exactly what I know!
              I was grafted myself at the very beginning, when there were lists and a queue ...
              Now we have no queue, within reach of 8 vaccination points, in the village and one of the neighboring cities. I don’t think of the regional center at all, there are my own affairs.
              And at the expense of those who do not want to go for vaccination, everything is clear, half of the department is like that.
              It seems like the guys are not stupid, well-read, but some carry such nonsense that only one has to be surprised.
              By the way, not the "Horns and Hooves" office ...
      3. Dizel200
        Dizel200 April 16 2021 23: 11
        0
        Why should you crawl to the cemetery?
    6. Martin
      Martin April 15 2021 14: 06
      -7
      Quote: rocket757
      So I should say that it is not the time to be sad, the time to work ...

      Here. Golden words that come to mind even after reading the title. Further it is only confirmed.
      Roman Skomorokhov in his repertoire: "Everything is bad with us, we will all die, whimper-whine ..."

      Yes, once we WERE the first ... And what's the point?

      And what is the use? For Roman personally, which one? Should apple trees bloom on Mars?
      To begin with, we were not the first, we were the first. "The first satellite", "The first man in space", "The first spacewalk" - this is for the rest of history. And that is what we celebrate on April 12th. It's like Victory Day on May 9th. Forever and ever.

      Second. It is impossible to be the first always and in everything. It's like a championship in the Olympics: today we were stronger, after 4 years we were bypassed, we are second or sixth, but this is no reason to whine. We are working in space, doing what we can after the "counter-revolution" of the 90s, and we are going to do further.

      Third. Funny Roman allocates seats.
      Among the leaders in terms of spending, places are distributed as follows:
      USA - $ 47,5 billion.
      China - $ 10 billion
      European Union - $ 10 billion
      India - $ 4,2 billion
      Russia - $ 3,6 billion

      “Here fatigue is considered the measure of work.” © Yep.
      What does this mean? What is more dough in Penodosia? Of course more, they successfully rob the whole world. Just how many of these billions have been spent to buy rocket engines from us? (This is me for an example. Space is alive not only with engines.) And how much dough was spent when the Americans went to our toilet, when they were "jammed with paper"? Well, it's free, probably our kind. What am I doing? That there is no dumber approach than considering everything in costs.
      Less starts? Fewer who argue. And what? There are as many starts as you need and as much as possible. What is the purpose of launching, for example, 113 missiles? To surpass China in statistics? So China is supposed to throw rockets upward, they need to gain experience, which we have accumulated since 1957.

      Total. The fact that we have problems in space is not obvious only to the dumb. As with many others. But the fact that in order to overcome these problems it is not necessary to whine, which we are now "not the first", but simply to work, is not obvious, for some reason, to many.
      So I am happy to quote rocket757 again:
      Quote: rocket757
      not time to be sad, time to work

      And leave the whining to the whiners.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 15 2021 14: 49
        +2
        Quote: Martyn
        And leave the whining to the whiners.

        If those who should control would give good kicks to those who are OBLIGED to work, but do not fulfill their duties ... they would receive moral satisfaction, maybe things will go lively!
        We are just rooting for everything that goes wrong in our country ... it doesn't matter WHO, the main thing is that THE BUSINESS WILL BE DONE CORRECTLY!
        1. Martin
          Martin April 15 2021 20: 21
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          the main thing is that the CASE WILL BE DONE CORRECT!

          Who argues?
          Do you have reliable information that everything is being done wrong in astronautics?
          Is that what Roman's article is about?
          First, a spit in the direction of the holiday, which our people have been celebrating for some ten years. Celebrates our first victories in space.
          Secondly, on the basis of a comparison of the space budgets of ours and the United States and on the basis of a comparison of the number of launches of the USSR and Russia, explains how bad everything is with us, sad, whimper ... whimper ...
          Well OK, let's talk about the quantity. There are 2020 launches in 15. Roman is so well informed that he knows exactly what was needed more? This is less than in China and America, yes. And what? At the same time, mind you, all Russian launches are successful, but the “leaders” are not so rosy. At the same time, China launched more America. So now she's tearing her ass hair that she's in second place? I don’t think so.
          Let's talk about budgets. Of course, the more money, the more opportunities. But. There is such a concept - "priorities". What is more important for us in terms of money: to provide water in the Crimea or to surpass America on paper with a space budget? Do we now have few global projects for which money is no less important than space? How to develop a vaccine, for free? Will bridges, roads, tanks, drones fall from the sky? The budget is allocated in accordance with the tasks set. And Roman's wishes for space launches are not taken into account there, unfortunately.
          You just need to love your homeland and rejoice at its successes. Systematic work has been going on in space for a long time, not a race with obstacles. And if in this work you can do something better than anyone else, then honor and praise. Just now, a piece of iron was thrown into space along a record fast trajectory. And I am glad of this, perhaps not very big, but success. For this is a forward movement. Would it be possible if it was done WRONG?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 16 2021 06: 03
            0
            For me, like me, only one thing is correct - From each according to his capabilities, to each according to his work! .....
  2. apro
    apro April 15 2021 09: 14
    -2
    And what's the use?

    There is always a sense ... if there is something to sell and drink. The Russian Federation coped with this successfully.
    As for lamentations, we were, we loved everything, and so on. The Russian Federation did not set the goal of space exploration, but the goals of personal enrichment in all possible ways, and Russian goal-setting welcomes the personal above the public.
    It was the Soviets who had goals, and there were achievements where they were the first, but not today's Russians. They have nothing to do with Soviet goals and achievements.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter April 15 2021 09: 42
      +10
      Quote: apro
      It was the Soviets who had goals, and there were achievements where they were the first, but not today's Russians. They have nothing to do with Soviet goals and achievements.

      Strongly said! good +100500
    2. lego2
      lego2 April 15 2021 10: 26
      -8
      I agree, from this point of view, not everything is so bad with us.
      And it's not over yet. If you remember the army and the unforgettable Taburetkin.
    3. I do not care
      I do not care April 15 2021 11: 45
      -7
      You are 146 percent right. It's not rogozin, not Putin with his camarilla, that the system prevents people from living. If Putin comes, Agutin will come, nothing will change. Capitalism in any form is profit, but native gangster-oligarchic is naked in cube. Why space, you won't be able to pump oil out of it in the near future. hi
  3. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik April 15 2021 09: 16
    +7
    Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical result of the adventure

    https://topwar.ru/95392-makaronnyy-monstr-ilona-maska-ili-zakonomernyy-itog-avantyury.html

    Another cat threw off this article 5 years ago. They whinnied there notoriously. Only then it was already sad. Now hooting over the Starship. Oh well. But we have nothing even close. Angara is a dead project, relevant for the 90s, absolutely unnecessary now. And that's all. Nothing is being tested. The projects are alone.

    A good excerpt from a film about our current life. By the way, the actor also clung to it.
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 April 15 2021 10: 02
      +12
      Is Angara just a dead project?
      Soyuz-5 is exactly the same yesterday.
      Exactly the same dead end.
      And there is nothing more behind the soul. Some projections, words, fantasies and dreams in the future tense, which will come when those who give out bright promises will no longer be in power. Conveniently. Safely. Profitable. Heavenly life.
      1. military_cat
        military_cat April 15 2021 10: 14
        +11
        Amur-LNG, in principle, is not bad (Musk praised it on Twitter, by the way) and is up-to-date (== before the start of operation of the "starships"), but it is not in the federal space program, which means neither those responsible for the implementation, nor funds for implementation are not provided. Its advance beyond the conceptual design in such circumstances is doubtful.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 April 15 2021 10: 48
          +6
          The fact that Amur-LNG is more promising was clear even before Musk's words.
          But what does Cupid mean to do? First of all, you need to make a new engine. Not to rivet the line of RD Glushko further to Energomash, but to do something of his own, new. Of course, it is difficult to get at the characteristics of Merlin (although the engine is the simplest, it is nowhere simpler according to the working cycle scheme), but you can at least get close to them. But this must be done.
          It is much easier to declare the creation of the fifth Union, there is no need to puzzle over the engine.
          Likewise with the Hangar. Why tinker with engines? Take a ready-made one, shove it into a light launch vehicle, mold out of five such light ones into a heavy one and pass it off as a kind of "breakthrough" in space technologies.
      2. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 15 2021 10: 43
        0
        Is Angara just a dead project?
        Soyuz-5 is exactly the same yesterday.
        Exactly the same dead end.

        Why is there a dead end Evolutionary development is underway. In the 90s, everything stopped, now it is slowly moving forward.
        What has been developed, but not embodied in metal, is now stupid to produce, we must go further.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 April 15 2021 11: 01
          +4
          Reasonable words.
          So why don't we move on?
          And we continue to rivet the line of the Glushko rocket engine? RD-170/180? RD-107/108?
          Why does only the royal R-7 fly in Russia today, sorry, Soyuz-2?
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 April 15 2021 11: 06
            0
            a difficult question. I would say that it is also the absence of professionals who have been pushed aside from decision-making. And the lack of breakthrough solutions that allow for radical or revolutionary improvement of technology, and the loss of competencies in the construction of devices
            1. Genry
              Genry April 15 2021 11: 59
              -4
              Quote: glory1974
              lack of professionals who have been pushed aside from decision-making

              More specifically, whom?
              Quote: glory1974
              And the lack of breakthrough solutions that allow you to radically or revolutionize the technology,

              In Russia, they are moving towards detonation engines, which involve cruise takeoff - there is no need to follow the old path of ineffective brute force of missiles.
              Experiments with nuclear tugs have begun, which will make it possible to fly further and many times faster.
              Quote: glory1974
              and loss of competence in the construction of devices

              Do you have something specific? For example?
              1. Glory1974
                Glory1974 April 15 2021 12: 11
                +3
                About professionals, for example, Academician Lopota, Doctor of Technical Sciences, headed Roscosmos until a journalist came instead.
                The loss of competencies is a salary at Roscosmos enterprises of 20-40 thousand rubles. An example is the Khruniechev Center. the old generation has left, the new has not come. As a result, the Nauka block was developed by the Khrunichev Center for more than 10 years, became obsolete, and upon acceptance it turned out that production technologies had been violated. Verdict: not to conclude a contract for the construction of spacecraft with this center due to the loss of competencies.
                Where in Russia they are moving, we constantly see and hear on channels 1 and 2, but there was no result, and there is no result.
                As an example to you: royal seven 2,7% payload. Modern "Anagara" 2,5%.
                Questions?
                1. Genry
                  Genry April 15 2021 12: 42
                  0
                  Quote: glory1974
                  academician Lopota

                  Of course, I am not familiar with him, but he could not solve problems at the level of RSC Energia and he could not pull a higher level. He got into the Sea Launch - let him rake him out.
                  Of course, Russia needs Sea Launch - but not now (there are other priorities). And with the advent of winged systems, it becomes generally a dead end.
                  Quote: glory1974
                  The loss of competencies is a salary at Roscosmos enterprises of 20-40 thousand rubles.

                  So if we raise the salary, the competencies will immediately become higher? I'm talking about logic, not salary complaints.
                  It turns out that Americans have the greatest competencies? Doubtful.
                  Quote: glory1974
                  As an example to you: royal seven 2,7% payload. Modern "Anagara" 2,5%.

                  About the fact that heptyl Proton is better than Angara, I know. But what about the Seven is new, because both missiles have kerosene fuel - they are equal (despite the fact that the Seven has first-stage blocks of an unsuccessful shape).
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 April 15 2021 15: 12
                    +1
                    he could not solve problems at the level of RSC Energia and he could not pull a higher level

                    maybe so. But a journalist in his place is not the best option, and in general, a professional who knows everything thoroughly, so that he can oppose various groups pushing their topic, should be led.
                    So if we raise the salary, the competencies will immediately become higher?

                    Sure! People with good education will go to work, not yesterday's janitors. At the factories of the military-industrial complex, children are offered salaries of 50-60 thousand, they can get a job through a competition, there is an opportunity to choose. In Roskosmos, they take anyone, after which they are surprised how the sensor could be hammered with a hammer, turning it 180 degrees.
                    About seven, it's like a question of competence and professionalism.
                    1. Genry
                      Genry April 15 2021 16: 25
                      0
                      Quote: glory1974
                      People with good education will go to work,

                      You will have the same people and the same education. And the best will always be lured away by competitors.

                      For specialized industries, a system of contracts is needed, where a person will be forced to lose freedom and from the first day of the beginning of his studies, be tied to a corporation or pay compensation.
                      1. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 April 16 2021 10: 12
                        +1
                        You will have the same people and the same education. And the best will always be lured away by competitors.

                        I will have other people who are ready to work for a good salary and ready to work in an appropriate way for this, to be trained to give the required quality.
                        Everything else is additional incentive.
                        Let the best go, that's why they are the best. The backbone must work and maintain the desired quality. This is what happens in enterprises run by professionals in their field.
                      2. Genry
                        Genry April 16 2021 12: 10
                        0
                        Quote: glory1974
                        people willing to work for a good salary

                        "Best the enemy of the good".
                        Only with a complete leveling, your "good" and "best" will be equivalent.
                        In a market situation, it will always be "better" somewhere (foreign countries will help us).
                      3. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 April 19 2021 10: 03
                        0
                        Only with a complete leveling, your "good" and "best" will be equivalent.

                        What does equalization have to do with it? I am not suggesting equalizing the salary of a canteen floor polisher with the salary of an engineer or highly skilled worker in the space industry.
                        In a market situation, there will always be "better" somewhere

                        Why is this bad?
                        In general, your arguments are drawn to demagoguery. I say that the higher the salary, the more smart people strive to earn it. You convince me that this is not so.
                      4. Genry
                        Genry April 19 2021 10: 12
                        0
                        Quote: glory1974
                        I say that the higher the salary, the more smart people strive to earn it.

                        What salary is normal?
                        Apparently you have not worked a lot yet, the salary will always be small, although you will increase it endlessly.

                        And always somewhere the salary is higher, but there are no more places there.
                      5. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 April 19 2021 10: 49
                        +1
                        What salary is normal?

                        A normal salary is the number of banknotes received by an employee per month, satisfying the needs of him and his family for good nutrition, purchasing clothes, paying current bills, and the ability to purchase household items. Like that. And it is very different from the cost of living and the minimum wage. Because this is the minimum. an employee of a high-tech production cannot receive a minimum, at the level of a janitor.
                        the salary will always be small, even if you increase it endlessly.

                        Are you Captain Obvious? wassat
                        Have you forgotten how the conversation started? I wrote that an employee who makes spaceships should not receive 20-40 thousand. And he should, as in other industries, for example, at shipyards or military-industrial complex plants, receive 60-80 thousand.
                        What are you arguing with me about?
                      6. Genry
                        Genry April 19 2021 10: 53
                        0
                        Quote: glory1974
                        I wrote that an employee who makes spaceships should not receive 20-40 thousand.

                        Quote: glory1974
                        What are you arguing with me about?

                        It is you who are arguing with me that someone needs to raise their salaries.
                        If people work there, then the balance of working conditions suits them.
                      7. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 April 19 2021 10: 58
                        +1
                        It is you who are arguing with me that someone needs to raise their salaries.

                        for the first time I meet a person who claims that the level of salary does not depend on what contingent will come to find a job.
                        If people work there, then the balance of working conditions suits them.

                        Yes, they do not work there, but go to other places. This is what we are talking about. Those who are not taken anywhere else remain to work. And they only have enough intelligence to hammer down the sensors with a hammer, if they understand what I'm talking about. That is why there are problems.
                      8. Genry
                        Genry April 19 2021 12: 04
                        0
                        Quote: glory1974
                        Yes, they do not work there, but go to other places.

                        So are they leaving or are they coming? Then, in your opinion, it is already empty.
                        Quote: glory1974
                        Those who are not taken anywhere else remain to work. And they have enough intelligence only to hammer the sensors with a hammer, if they understand what I'm talking about.

                        Such people are immediately removed, with the entire vertical of responsible persons.

                        And where do the payment figures come from? From the statement? So there are several of them: advance payment, salary, bonuses.
                      9. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 April 20 2021 09: 35
                        0
                        So are they leaving or are they coming? Then, in your opinion, it is already empty.

                        you still do not understand what contingent is working?
                        Such people are immediately removed, with the entire vertical of responsible persons.

                        I don’t remember that after this incident all the culprits were removed.
                        And where do the payment figures come from? From the statement? So there are several of them: advance payment, salary, bonuses.

                        official figures announced in the media
                      10. Genry
                        Genry April 20 2021 13: 33
                        0
                        Quote: glory1974
                        you still do not understand what contingent is working?

                        Judge by yourself?
                        Quote: glory1974
                        I don’t remember that after this incident all the culprits were removed.

                        Were you involved? Did they report to you?
                        Quote: glory1974
                        official figures announced in the media

                        Whose media? OBS? request
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 April 15 2021 12: 04
    -4
    Here you will find hundreds of billions of rubles for all these revolutionary developments for their implementation, then there will be a conversation and it takes a lot of time and the result on them in the end may be negative, so it is easier and cheaper to use what we have by modernizing and creating new ones as allocated funds.
  • Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. April 15 2021 09: 19
    +8
    Yes, it’s not rockets to design, assemble and send into space, people are needed here the size of Korolev, Glushko, Yangel, etc., we need technicians, and not sociologists and journalists, disgusting policy on space, no planning, development of space the industry is not visible. There will be nothing good and positive.
    1. apro
      apro April 15 2021 09: 26
      +4
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      here we need PERSONS of the size of Korolev, Glushko, Yangel, etc.

      Here we need national goals, but they do not exist, and therefore there are no people for such projects. They are not needed. Others who fit into the market are needed.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 15 2021 10: 45
        +2
        Here we need national goals, but they are not.

        This is practically an ideology, but it is prohibited in our country.
        While the traders are in power, everything will be considered from the standpoint of profit. What are the national ideas for throwing money into space?
    2. Siberian54
      Siberian54 April 15 2021 09: 33
      +2
      Yes, there is no need for HUMANS, the will of the state is needed - the USA has it - they created the most favorable regime for the half-fraudster, and he had government funding and discriminatory actions against other providers of these services ..
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 April 15 2021 11: 47
        +6
        Is it necessary to understand the "most favorable" regime as a constant delay on the part of government agencies in decisions on the certification of Musk's QC and RN?
        And "discriminatory actions against other providers of these services" - this, presumably, a constant increased financial feeding of Boeing and Lockheed Martin, in contrast to SpaceX, which until some time got only crumbs?
        Can you tell us the specific amount of government funding for Spaces?
        And if this recipe is so simple and effective that prevents Roscosmos from creating its own Mask?
        1. Siberian54
          Siberian54 5 May 2021 15: 25
          0
          Cosm22 \ No, they just banned by law the launches of vehicles with any American filling in our country and created a complex procedure for the Euros.
    3. Genry
      Genry April 15 2021 12: 01
      -4
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      disgusting policy on space, no planning, development of the space industry is visible.

      Not visible from your ....
      You have a stash in the bank - give it to the development of space, if you so care.
  • Niko
    Niko April 15 2021 09: 34
    +8
    This, of course, will not solve the problem, but I would send Rogozin ... if not to Mars, then at least to the Moon, and show in a TV show how he grows and eats potatoes on his poop and makes fun of America. by sending you can of course make a studio somewhere near Butyrka, although here we will save on weight during launches
  • ammunition
    ammunition April 15 2021 09: 37
    0
    I am sure that people did not move further from the Earth orbit. And they will not be deleted.
    Decades after decade pass ... people are led by the nose .. fairy tales about Mars .. about cities on the moon.
    Only one thing is not clear - "they" pull this bagpipes on purpose? .. or does the bagpipe pull them?
    1. ammunition
      ammunition April 15 2021 09: 51
      +2
      Quote: ammunition
      Decades after decade pass ... people are led by the nose .. fairy tales about Mars

      Over the past 50 years, the material and technological power of mankind has grown so much that a simple oligarch (Musk) jokingly repeats what only a superpower could do. Repeats .. where it even surpasses .. But! - No ... no more.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 15 2021 10: 49
        0
        Over the past 50 years, the material and technological power of mankind has grown so much that a simple oligarch (Musk) jokingly repeats what only a superpower could do. Repeats .. somewhere even surpasses

        The King's Seven (R-7, on which Gagarin flew) has a payload of 2,7%. The new Angara has 2,5%.
        Americans have 18,5% on Apollo.
        These percentages are beyond the reach of even Musk.
        This means that
        Decades after decade pass ... people are led by the nose .. fairy tales about Mars .. about cities on the moon.
        1. zlinn
          zlinn April 15 2021 22: 55
          +2
          The King's Seven (R-7, on which Gagarin flew) has a payload of 2,7%. The new Angara has 2,5%.
          Americans have 18,5% on Apollo.
          These percentages are beyond the reach of even Musk.
          This means that

          where did 18,2% come from?
          Atlas 5: 140/2965 = 4,72%
          have a mask
          heavy: 63,8 / 1420 = 4,49%
          Falcon 9: 22,8 / 549 = 4,15%
          so far, of course, unattainable, but just a little
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 April 16 2021 10: 50
            0
            Apollo 11 lunar module. The characteristics of its landing stage:
            Weight, including fuel: 10 334 kg (including water supply: 1 tank, 151 kg)
            In this case, the mass of fuel and oxidizer: 8165 kg.
            thus the LM on the A-11 had a payload weight of 21%.
            The rest are approximately in this range, on average 18%
            For comparison, the fueled mass of the Luna-25 lander is 1,75 tons, and the total weight of its payload is only 30 kg.
            Total: the payload of a modern Russian AMS is 1,7% of the total mass.
            At the same time, there is no life support system on it.
            1. region58
              region58 April 20 2021 01: 07
              0
              Quote: glory1974
              Total

              Strange how you compared it. Apparatus for completely different purposes - one for landing, work for less than a day on the surface of the Moon and takeoff, and the second - only for landing and long-term work (like a year is planned). Well, okay, even so, but why in one case do you consider the useful mass less fuel from the total, and in the other only the mass of scientific instruments? What devices, with God's help, will work there, without a power source, thermoregulation and communication with the Earth? Take, in the case of the Moon-25, the total mass - 1750 kg (according to other sources - 1540), and the dry mass - 950 kg. And then what happens? Wow - 61% (assuming a total weight of 1540kg). How do you like this arithmetic?
              1. Glory1974
                Glory1974 April 21 2021 10: 22
                0
                Okay. Let us then take devices of the same purpose. For example, "Luna-16".
                A lunar module that returned to Earth with lunar soil samples. The total mass is about 2 tons, a block with a mass of 35 kg flew to Earth.
                1. region58
                  region58 April 21 2021 23: 31
                  0
                  Quote: glory1974
                  For example "Luna-16"

                  "He was irresistibly deflected to the north (C) ...." Look, "Moon -16", from Vicki:
                  The automatic space complex for the delivery of soil from the Moon consisted of:
                  a landing stage with a main engine for braking and two low-thrust engines for landing, as well as a soil intake device and various devices, the landing stage also provided the launch of the Moon-Earth rocket
                  rocket "Moon - Earth" with an onboard radio complex and an instrument compartment in the form of a cylinder, on which the reentry vehicle was installed
                  a reentry vehicle in the form of a ball with three compartments, in which were placed: radio transmitters for detection during descent to Earth, batteries, a parachute control mechanism; parachute, radio transmitter antennas, gas cylinders for orientation after landing; lunar soil container

                  What does it mean? So this is exactly the fact that the landing stage landed on the moon (did not take off, but sat down), with a bunch of instruments, equipment (including for soil sampling), a rocket for a return flight and a reentry vehicle. After sampling the soil and placing it in the reentry vehicle, the Luna-Earth rocket launches from the landing stage, on which the reentry vehicle is actually located. The landing stage remains on the lunar surface (the same one, weighing about two tons). So consider how much fuel was on the Moon-Earth rocket, its ratio to the payload. And count in the conditions of the moon, and take into account the peculiarities of the return orbit and all the maneuvers that had to be done. Plus, keep in mind that the case was new, and no one really bothered with the percentage of the payload. Well, something like that ... hi
                  PS Since there is no atmosphere on the Moon, the Moon-Earth rocket is not at all similar to the rocket as we usually imagine it.

                  PPS The first drawing that came across, the artist saw so ... smile
  • Boris55
    Boris55 April 15 2021 09: 40
    -4
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    Yes, once we WERE the first ... And what's the point?

    I don't know about you, but I'm proud of it.

    The point is that the world's first state of workers and peasants has proved to the whole world that workers and peasants can rule the country better than the bourgeois. The liberated labor in the country of the Soviets, in a very short time after the bloodiest war of the 20th century, was able to surpass all the countries of the world in its level of education, which allowed us to be the first to launch a satellite, Belka and Strelka, a lunar rover. The first to send research vehicles to Mars and Venus.

    The United States, which stole all the technical documentation from us in the 90s, still cannot reproduce them - their general level of education does not allow them to do this, and the captured Germans are over ...

    Today capitalism, in the person of Rogozin, has proved its inconsistency and its inability to do big things. Our new orbital station will be built under the strict guidance of Shoigu, and I am sure that the work of Soviet scientists will not be in vain, and the ISS will not last long without us.

    ps
    Gagarin's helmet always had the inscription "USSR," where did it go in your picture? Do we have the symbols of the USSR banned as in Ukraine?
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS April 15 2021 09: 46
      +16
      The helmet was originally white and the famous photo without the USSR was taken a few hours before the start, when the spacesuit was just put on. When the cosmonaut and the backup were taken to the start in the bus, someone suddenly realized that there was no accessory anywhere - neither on the spacesuit nor on the helmet to the country. Moreover, the story with Powers was fresh in my memory - what if Gagarin landed in a place where he would be mistaken for a spy? And a way out was found: someone had a paintbrush and red paint and the inscription USSR was made on the bus right on Gagarin, without taking off his helmet ...

      the inscription was personally applied by one of the specialists who prepared Gagarin for the flight. Namely, German Sergeevich Lebedev, who helped put on a spacesuit on the first cosmonaut.
      1. Sentinel-vs
        Sentinel-vs April 15 2021 10: 11
        -5
        It looks like a bike. It can be seen that the inscription was made exactly and according to the stencil. Apparently, the stencil was also found on the bus along with a brush and red paint. What can not be found in the Soviet bus. :)
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 April 15 2021 12: 09
          -1
          There is even a video chronicle where it was seen that there was no inscription on the helmet.
          1. Sentinel-vs
            Sentinel-vs April 15 2021 13: 27
            0
            And who can argue that it was not? It wasn't until a certain moment. But the inscription was not made on the knee on the bus on the way to the rocket.
      2. Sentinel-vs
        Sentinel-vs April 15 2021 10: 23
        +1
        https://cont.ws/@lapsha71/1293226

        "Today I had a conversation with one of the leading designers of the Zvezda enterprise, where they sewed and sew spacesuits. In his words, the inscription on the helmet of Yuri Gagarin's spacesuit was applied by an employee of the plant Davidyants at the enterprise's TP in Baikonur, in the process of preparing the spacesuit for flight (in advance) And that means:

        1. USSR inscription on the helmet at the time of the start of Yu.A. Gagarin was.

        2. The story that the inscription was a random event that took place 20 minutes before the start is a legend and by the way popular (today, in the process of collecting facts, I was referred to it)

        3. The remark that Yu.A. Gagarin at the moment of landing would be mistaken for "Powers" is not devoid of humor, but even in this case, Yu.A. had the appropriate certificate. "
        1. Avior
          Avior April 15 2021 13: 58
          +3
          ... Before the launch, it was discovered that there were no bright identification marks on the spacesuit, and so that after landing Yuri Gagarin would not be mistaken for a spy (everyone remembered the incident with the American pilot Powers shot down in 1960), Zvezda engineer Victor Davidyants painted on the helmet, already worn on Yuri Gagarin, the inscription "USSR" [10].

          There is no inscription on other SK-1 spacesuits
          They were prepared in the amount of 8 pieces.
      3. bubalik
        bubalik April 15 2021 17: 24
        +3
        a way out was found: someone had a paintbrush and red paint and the inscription USSR was made on the bus

        ,,,nonsense. The first launch of a man into space, the spacesuit was developed by several research institutes, and the paint is incomprehensible from the bus, it is unclear how it will behave in space.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee April 15 2021 09: 50
      +5
      Sad refrain "We WERE the first"
      Sad and insulting ...
      Quote: Boris55
      and I'm proud of it.

      I was also proud, only pride is slowly melting ...
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 April 15 2021 09: 51
        +1
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        I was also proud, only pride is slowly melting ...

        Capitalism however. The lowest stage of human degradation ...
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee April 15 2021 09: 57
          +7
          Quote: Boris55
          The lowest stage of human degradation ...

          Boris hi Where have we been striving for the last 30 years! wassat
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 April 15 2021 10: 13
            -9
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            Where have we been striving for the last 30 years!

            Humpback ditched the USSR in five years, and Putin is so stupid that in 30 years he cannot ditch Russia. laughing
            1. Uncle lee
              Uncle lee April 15 2021 10: 38
              +8
              The bourgeoisie, it is ...
            2. Pilot
              Pilot April 15 2021 10: 49
              +5
              Quote: Boris55
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              Where have we been striving for the last 30 years!

              Humpback ditched the USSR in five years, and Putin is so stupid that in 30 years he cannot ditch Russia. laughing

              It all depends on the task, for example, one robber robs a bank and then escapes everywhere from a ruined and robbed banker, and the other himself becomes a banker and pushes citizens until the end of his life cycle or until another robber pushes him ... Huh from Mr. ... ? wink
            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 13: 03
              +3
              Quote: Boris55
              and Putin is so dumb

              You are like a child Boris. The goals for the destruction of Russia have not changed, only the pace has changed, and only so that these goals are less visible.
              Otherwise, the people would have reared long ago, and there would have been a possibility of coming to power of an analogue of Fidel, Stalin, Gaddafi.
        2. atalef
          atalef April 15 2021 11: 45
          +1
          Quote: Boris55
          Capitalism however. The lowest stage of human degradation ...

          of course, yes, it is not relevant to give arguments
          The DPRK and Cuba are ten heads higher than the European cap countries, but Scandinavia and Luxembourg, with their capitalism in general, are in a deep butt.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 13: 08
            +5
            Hello Leo Orthodox! hi
            You are citing incorrect comparisons, I did not mention the sanctions and the embargo. wink
            1. atalef
              atalef April 15 2021 19: 42
              0
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Hello Leo Orthodox!

              Hello Itebe, faithful.
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              You are citing incorrect comparisons, I did not mention the sanctions and the embargo.

              fairy tales, tell me more that if it were not for the sanctions and embargo (only from the US side, the same Cuba trades well with all other countries), then there would be Luxembourg in Cuba.
              Do you believe it yourself?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 April 15 2021 21: 00
                -1
                Quote: atalef
                then there would be Luxembourg in Cuba.

                Of course not. But sticks in the wheels do not give a better life, this is unambiguous.
    3. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze April 15 2021 09: 57
      +13
      ps
      Gagarin's helmet always had the inscription "USSR," where did it go in your picture?


      Boris, even a foreigner, as I know, that Gagarin's helmet and most of the pictures do not have the inscription USSR. It was put there right before the start.

      the world's first state of workers and peasants has proved to the whole world that workers and peasants can rule the country better than the bourgeois.


      Everyone saw it for sure ... laughing And then they saw how your communists almost ruined their country, and then how your communists changed their colors in the nouveau riche and then they built the largest yachts in the world and now they have built feudal capitalism and pay you $ 300 in salary.

      An amazing success, actually. laughing
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 April 15 2021 10: 03
        +1
        Quote: Keyser Soze
        It was put there right before the start.

        And it was these pictures with the inscription of the USSR that flew around the world, including in the dock. the film, which for some reason by today's date, someone covered up the inscription of the USSR ...



        We are not Ukraine. We do not have a ban on the symbols of the USSR, but someone here honors the laws of Bandera ...
        1. Alf
          Alf April 15 2021 11: 50
          +5
          Quote: Boris55
          We do not have a ban on the symbols of the USSR,

          FORMALLY no, but ACTUALLY ???
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. Glory1974
      Glory1974 April 15 2021 10: 53
      +5
      I don't know about you, but I'm proud of it.

      I am also proud, and if you look at the flight more closely, it becomes obvious that we are proud for a reason.
      Gagarin was in space for 108 minutes and made a complete orbit around the Earth.
      Sheppard, who was the second, ascended into lower space and did not even enter low-earth orbit, flew 100 km above the ground. He made a 15-minute "dive", which is not at all comparable with the achievement of the USSR.
    5. donavi49
      donavi49 April 15 2021 11: 18
      +11
      The United States, which stole all the technical documentation from us in the 90s, still cannot reproduce them - their general level of education does not allow them to do this, and the captured Germans are over ...


      What for? Well, that is - they come from utility. There are prospects to fly to Jupiter or Saturn - they fly. Juno's data is still being analyzed and there they have collected a bunch of materials for a bunch of awards + fundamentally moved knowledge. Cassini-Gugens is generally the most successful AMC in 30 years. First landing on Titan. Discovery of a satellite with liquid water, which can be taken for research with a cheap umbrella or a new AMS (projects are already being developed). A huge array of data on Saturn and the system.

      For example - the USSR and Russia never flew over Mars. I am already silent about New Horizons, Voyagers, etc.



      Mars - again, the only successful lander of the USSR sounded 5 seconds and died. For the Americans, 2 Vikings worked for years (the first one generally worked for 6 years and would still have worked if the trainee had not filled in the wrong software, as a result of which the antenna went down, but it had not yet been raised).


      Landing on Venus is certainly good, but people forget about the American program - Pioneer-Venus. They collected an array of data and dropped the umbrellas into the atmosphere - after that, realizing that it was futile to dig there, they curtailed the landing mission.


      But they flew to Mercury and found ice there suddenly and suitable areas for research, plus a bunch of interesting things. The USSR never flew to Mercury.


      For rockets - the same. What for? They made a fundamental decision not to invest in a licensed release, adaptation or development of existing topics, but to try to jump further, using the purchase of starts / motors for now. As a result, somewhere it is a failure, somewhere it is a success. As always. But for example, their new Vulcan-Centaurus launch vehicle on methane is very soon (22), while Rogozin's LNG launch vehicle is only being designed. Plus, a bunch of private traders are sawing their systems - with their own approaches. A simple example, while in Samara a granny with a salary of 25-30 thousand dives into a tank with an LED flashlight and a hand sensor, at Mask it is done by a robot 24/7, for free (only electricity), but Relativity Space has a single production and delivery robotic workshop for sections and tanks, and motors are 100% printed and assembled by robots. With their plan to make 6 launches a year with a team of 350-400 people (in Samara 17 people).
    6. atalef
      atalef April 15 2021 11: 40
      +4
      Quote: Boris55
      The USA, which stole all technical documentation from us in the 90s, still cannot reproduce them about them - their general level of education does not allow them to do this

      that's a storyteller.
      Well, suppose it was hypothetically stolen. but in Russia she (the documentation remained) - so why can't you yourself?

      Quote: Boris55
      Today capitalism, in the person of Rogozin, has proven its failure and its inability to do big things.

      capitalism represented by Rogozin ... mmm.
      From what a bad capitalist Rogozin. and Musk means a socialist and Bezos is a socialist laughing
      Quote: Boris55
      Gagarin's helmet always had the inscription "USSR," where did it go in your picture?

      Well, she never was. she was drawn at the last moment. when Gagrin was already in a spacesuit
      The banner was laid out by the state corporation Roscosmos. There are similar shields in other regions of Russia, where scandals related to this photo have already arisen. "Roskosmos", commenting on the situation, said that no one removed the inscription. The radio station "Moscow speaking" was informed about this by the press secretary of the state corporation Vladimir Ustimenko.

      “The photograph without the signature“ USSR ”was taken a few hours before the start of the flight. Later, the abbreviation was applied with a brush using red paint, ”Ustimenko said.
  • Victorio
    Victorio April 15 2021 09: 54
    0
    Well, if this is an appeal to modern specialists, then, perhaps, it should be said that people work as best they can. and there are successes there, there and there. and even in hockey, biathlon, weightlifting, there is nothing to be happy about, and there are many other places. priorities, people and opportunities are different. Well, and lastly, if there are claims to the head, then the marriage is being driven just from the tail.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov April 15 2021 10: 04
    +2
    And if we talk about the fact that a ton of cargo launched into orbit by the ancient "Proton" costs 2,8 million dollars, and a ton on the "Falcon" Musk is 1,4 million of the same dollars,

    You can say everything, but how much does it actually cost to transport the cargo on the Falcone?
    The lowest cost for Falcon is still $ 62 million for 16,8 tons of low orbit cargo. For a ton of cargo less than 3 million, I just can't do it.
    And this is not a full but a dumping price. For NASA, it is about twice as high.
    About the Sovalk, at one time, they also said that it would reduce the price by a factor.
  • Woodman
    Woodman April 15 2021 10: 17
    .
    Were

    This is the key word.
    It was "were". It is impossible to be the first to go into space twice. This can only be done once. And we did it.
    And now that we are not second or even third in space,
    Who said and how did you measure it? Commercial launches? So this achievement of a different order is not something radically new, it is just production put on stream, roughly speaking, consumer goods:
    commercial space exploration is all about entertainment on Earth, not space


    We are about the same trying to poke in the face of the whole world with our primacy
    Not more often than others. Or is there a proposal to "repent" precisely in the fact that we were the first?
    Since the first were citizens of a completely different country.
    Did the Russians cease to be Russians because of this? Is this a reason to forget about the achievements of our ancestors and our Motherland? Renounce your country's history?
    Space exploration, flights to space bodies
    And there are many who have achieved something in this so that we are "not even the third"?
    Among the leaders in terms of spending, places are distributed as follows:
    USA - $ 47,5 billion.
    China - $ 10 billion
    European Union - $ 10 billion
    India - $ 4,2 billion
    Russia - $ 3,6 billion
    And now I see by what parameters "we are not third".

    PS I would like to take this opportunity to remind the author of his desire to return to the topic of the "Potemkin hospital" near Voronezh:
    In winter we will return to this topic, it will be informative to learn
    And then winter has passed and it is very interesting to know
    how the doctors and patients of the new hospital will feel during the winter. Warming up frozen hands on a convector ... with escaped doctors and patients who do not want to freeze.
    how much such predictions differ from the statements of "Rogozin on Twitter" ...
    1. apro
      apro April 15 2021 10: 27
      +3
      Quote: Lesovik
      Renounce your country's history?

      Yes, easily. That the history of the new Russian Federation constantly demonstrates.
    2. unaha
      unaha April 15 2021 10: 34
      +10
      "Who said and how measured? Commercial launches?" - why. Let us take as a criterion the number of scientific projects outside the orbit. How many and what were held in the Russian Federation over the last 10 years, for example?
      1. Woodman
        Woodman April 15 2021 11: 47
        -6
        Quote: unaha
        How many and what were held in the Russian Federation over the last 10 years, for example?

        And how much? And who besides Russia and how many such works have been done?
        1. unaha
          unaha April 15 2021 12: 31
          +5
          So I asked you. I don’t know about the Russians. And foreign (and this is not only the United States, but also many others) won, a little lower led.
          Another criterion may be the number of private companies that have achieved impressive results in a very short time and modest (comparatively) budgets, and in some places even very advanced (like a 3d-printer engine for Orbex). Personally, this criterion speaks to me about the high availability of production and engineering resources for such a complex field, a large number of highly qualified engineers, respectively, high-quality education, attractive conditions for qualified immigrants.
          Well, the opposite example: "The Kosmokurs company, which was developing the project for the construction of the first Russian private cosmodrome in the Nizhny Novgorod region, is closing," its general director Pavel Pushkin told RIA Novosti.
          Among the reasons for the liquidation of the company are called "insurmountable difficulties in coordinating the requirements for the cosmodrome project with the local authorities and the inability to obtain from the Ministry of Defense the necessary regulatory documentation for the design of a suborbital tourist rocket."
          1. Woodman
            Woodman April 15 2021 12: 35
            -5
            Quote: unaha
            So I asked you.

            Those. did you answer a question with a question?
            Quote: unaha
            And foreign (and this is not only the United States, but also many others) won, a little lower led.

            Well, nothing prevented you from citing these examples in support of your opinion, and I would answer you the same way I answered a person who was not too lazy to give these examples ...
          2. Woodman
            Woodman April 15 2021 13: 20
            -4
            Quote: unaha
            Another criterion may be the quantity

            What is the manner of editing a comment after you have received a reply? I can still understand those who write a meaningless set of letters under the article in order to be the first to be noted (they are trying for the plus signs) and only then edit their thoughts, but in a dialogue, why is that?
            Quote: unaha
            Well, the opposite example: "The company" Kosmokurs "

            In the comments under this article, I asked the question, what did this company design from what was declared over the seven years of its existence and with a staff of fifty designers? In response, I did not hear anything sensible. Based on this, I concluded that they had closed another office of the Horns and Hooves type.
            1. unaha
              unaha April 15 2021 15: 45
              0
              "What a way to edit a comment" - just a thought came a little later, as sent)
              “Proceeding from this, I concluded that another office of the Horn and Hoof type was shut down” - it is not excluded, but then it turns out that no one is even trying to develop high-tech industries from scratch. Those. there are simply no such people, opportunities and resources.
              1. Woodman
                Woodman April 15 2021 16: 15
                0
                Quote: unaha
                but then it turns out that no one is even trying to develop high-tech industries from scratch. Those. there are simply no such people, opportunities and resources.

                I agree. I believe that without the support of the state, individuals and companies will not be able to pull out such projects in any way. And in order to receive such support, the state needs to be interested. And here you cannot do with simple promises, since this is a lot of money, very big. It is necessary to offer something that can convince even "die-hard and tight-fisted" officials. Apparently "Kosmokurs" did not find such arguments.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 April 15 2021 12: 17
        -2
        There was Radioastron now the Spectrum RG telescope in 2025 should launch the Spectrum UV module this summer, the Science module send in October the landing station Luna 25, send the next year to launch what the Mars rover exploded in the Exomars program in 2020.
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 April 15 2021 12: 13
      +13
      And there are many who have achieved something in this so that we are "not even the third"?


      Well, let's go quickly - Mars:
      2 Mars rovers with different set of instruments and a landing station - USA.
      Orbital platform MAM - India.
      Orbital platform - UAE.
      An orbital platform and the other day landing - China.
      There is no Russia - only devices on other people's devices.

      Small bodies - Hayabusa (Japan) = return of soil from an asteroid.

      Osiris (USA) = taking soil from another asteroid and returning in a couple of years.

      Russia has nothing - only projects by the 30s.

      Deep space - New Horizons, continues the mission, transmits large amounts of data.

      Jupiter - Juneau (USA) - a giant research array, the mission was extended due to the saved fuel.


      Luna - Hindu orbiter with spectrometers and radars (the lunar rover was killed).

      The Chinese lunar rover and ground return - at one time more than the USSR for all missions.

      Russia has only plans and has already been trying for 10 years to assemble a mission with a couple of scientific instruments.

      Venus - the Japanese device Dawn, has been successfully exploring the planet from orbit for 6 years with its numerous instruments.


      Mercury - BepiColombo (Japan / ESA) - in the program the most detailed study of the planet, including the areas where ice was marked, as well as to perform cartography of hydrogen / water-bearing rocks.

      The Sun is the Solar Orbiter, ESA's newest AMC. On the way to the Sun, a huge scientific program due to synchronization with the Parker probe (USA).

      Parker's Probe - on its way to the Sun. Again, they will work with the ESA probe, complementing each other and providing coverage of the luminary.


      These are only those AMCs that are currently active. If we add AMS in the last 15-20 years, it will be even worse for Roseta, Cassini-Gugens, Nadezhda and other stations that have changed the fundamental foundations of our system's capabilities, priorities and, in general, approaches to evolution.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman April 15 2021 12: 30
        -3
        Quote: donavi49
        Well, let's go fast -

        These are the interlocutors I respect) Maximum facts, minimum populism hi As they say - respect and respect)
        However, some of your examples are debatable. Not with facts, but with expediency. For some of these achievements for Russia are a passed stage. Let in the days of the Union, but passed.
        Although I would like to move on.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 April 15 2021 10: 31
    +10
    In Soviet times, there was such a very good journalist, Yaroslav Golovanov, who was engaged in space and scientific topics, but for some reason it never occurred to anyone to put him in command of space ..
    Unlike ..
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 15 2021 10: 38
    +5
    Only neighbors-Ukrainians amused, having arranged a mass hysterics on the topic “where would these Russians be without our Queen”. It was really funny, but it made me think. We are about the same trying to poke our primacy in the face of the whole world, as the Ukrainians are to us with Korolev. It's sad.

    Why is this stupid comparison? We remind the whole world who was the first in space so as not to rewrite history.
    Ukraine is trying to find at least something that would indicate that there was such a condemnation. I'm not even talking about the Sumerians, they were also Ukrainians.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 April 15 2021 10: 45
    0
    Yesterday I drew attention to the same poster .. and also approximately these thoughts were in my head ..
    It seems to be a reason for pride .. but ..
    Is it possible, sweeping the street around the factory, to be proud that you once owned it ??
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov April 15 2021 10: 50
    -1
    And if you look at the dynamics since 2018, when Rogozin began to steer, then by 2021 there were a total of 62 launches.
    For comparison: the USA had 89 launches in the same time, China made 112.

    Compare with spending:
    Among the leaders in terms of spending, places are distributed as follows:
    USA - $ 47,5 billion.
    China - $ 10 billion
    European Union - $ 10 billion
    India - $ 4,2 billion
    Russia - $ 3,6 billion


    Vyewod - Russia has 62 launches and $ 3,6 billion in costs, the US has 89 launches and $ 47,5 billion in costs.
    The question of reduced difficulty - who is more effective?
    1. ALARI
      ALARI April 15 2021 13: 05
      +6
      And why for Russia in dollars or do we pay people to suppliers or technology in dollars? Or industry salaries are comparable to the US.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 15 2021 11: 02
    +5
    "We were the first." Billboards at all corners reminded of this, and television did not stand aside.

    I just didn’t understand the "Yagagarin" action. They showed on TV how some unidentified persons of different ages put a portrait of Yury Gagarin to their face and said "I am Gagarin".
    What was it all about? What did they mean by this?
    Firstly, there was no inscription "USSR" on the helmet. Baeks walk a lot, who drew it and when, but it's a fact: Gagarin flew with this inscription and returned! At the same time, I cannot help but "kick" the American astronauts who flew away with some chevrons on their sleeves and flew in with others. Looks like it was altered in flight. wassat
    Secondly, if these people were from the cosmonaut corps, or pilots, or children who study in robotics circles or young astronauts, I would understand. But what was that?
  • svp67
    svp67 April 15 2021 11: 11
    +3
    The trouble is that launching it costs twice as much as the archaic and criticized Proton.
    So far, the "environmental tax" has not been introduced on "Proton", for its "heptyl" and mass production of "Angara" has not been established ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 15 2021 12: 19
      -2
      The production of Angara A 1.2 and A5 has already been launched.
  • Brancodd
    Brancodd April 15 2021 11: 26
    +4
    Practical reprint of an article two years ago with "new data ..."
    Sobbing and distorting facts, sobbing and outright lies.
    During the period from 2009 to 2014, the Federal Space Agency produced at least 30
    Not true

    Launch Data
    2010 - 23 (1 accident)
    2011 - 24 (3 emergency)
    2012 - 26 (1 emergency)
    2013 - 27 (2 emergency)
    2014 - 26 (1 emergency)
    2015 - 17 (2 emergency)
    2016 - 15 (1 emergency)
    2017 - 17 (1 emergency)

    2018 - 20 (1 emergency)
    2019 - 25 (all successful)
    2020 - 17 (all successful)
    2021 ... - 6 ... (all successful) - planned 29 launches of which at least 10 from Vostochny

    The average number of launches in 2018-2021 practically did not change, but the accident rate decreased significantly. The period of trouble-free launches was 62. This is a record of the Soviet and post-Soviet period.

    And if you look at the dynamics since 2018, when Rogozin began to steer, then by 2021 there were a total of 62 launches.
    For comparison: the USA had 89 launches in the same time, China made 112.

    Very revealing. But why isn't the list complete? You claim that "
    we are not second or even third in space
    "Here are the statistics of another" leader "(EKA) without taking into account the launches of our Alliances with the Kuru.

    2018 - 6 launches (1 partially unsuccessful)
    2019 - 6 launches (1 emergency)
    2020 - 5 launches (1 emergency)
    2021 - 0 ....

    How do you like Elon? Given that ESA funding is 2 times higher than Roscosmos funding.

    And when, in March 2021, the head of the Accounts Chamber, Kudrin, reported that 30 billion had again been stolen from Roscosmos ...


    What did the Accounts Chamber actually reveal?
    " Moscow. March 31. INTERFAX - The violations revealed by the results of last year's inspections at Roscosmos do not relate to the misuse of budget funds and do not require the intervention of law enforcement agencies, said the head of the Accounts Chamber Alexei Kudrin. Last year we did not find any misuse (funds). Although in one speech, speaking about state corporations, I said that there are some, but in the part of Roscosmos over the past year, no inappropriate violations were identified and there were no violations that require a special response from law enforcement agencies, "he said. Kudrin at a plenary session of the Federation Council.
    The head of the joint venture noted the improvement in the financial discipline of the state corporation. "I would like to note that Roskosmos has become much more attentive to its financial discipline, but the situation has seriously changed.
    ", - he said.

    But for some reason, there are doubts about what will be launched. All too quickly Russia has lost its piece of the cosmic pie. Moreover, no one took it away, they surrendered without a fight.


    The contract with One Web, concluded in 2016. -1.2 billion EUR for the launch of 26 Unions
    Last year, One Web initiated negotiations on a new contract for an estimated 30 launches (EUR 2 billion). Arian 6 "damn it doesn't fly." "Vega" flies, but more in the form of ash on the head of the EKA leadership. Musk with a starlink is a direct competitor. It remains to bow to Roskosmos. And they went miserable. And even 2 years ago they beat themselves in the chest and claimed that they would continue on their own, without the Russians ...
    There are other contracts as well. For example, in February, a Korean satellite was launched.
    NASA, through a travel company from Texas, bought a space from Roscosmos for an astronaut on the Soyuz. Moreover, this is exactly a purchase, not an exchange for a seat on Crew Dragjn.

    So, "Angara" is kind of an undoubted achievement. The trouble is that launching it costs twice as much as the archaic and criticized Proton. And they know how to count money all over the world. And if today there are still people willing to use Protons, then it is somehow illogical to pay twice as much to put a satellite into orbit.


    The cost of launching Falcon9 is $ 63 million. The cost of Hangara A5 (not serial) is 7 billion rubles ($ 95 million). Serial production 10 pcs. the planned price of 4.4 billion rubles per year is comparable to the price of Falcon9. Moreover, a comparable load of 23 (t) into the near-earth orbit Falcon9 takes out only in the version with a non-return stage. With the returned Falcon9 - 15.6t. Union 5 (modernized Zenith) should output 17t. with a price of 40-50 million rubles.
    In fact, it is appropriate to compare Angara A5 with Arian 6. Approximately equal in load, at the same time they begin to operate. But in all respects, including the cost of launching the Angar A5, it surpasses the Arian 6. Not much, but it does. But here's the bad luck "Arian 6" "damn it doesn't fly ..."
    The same Koreans contracted 2 launches of their vehicles on the Angara.


    so also the US government launched an attack on the space launch sector, planning from 2023 an embargo on Russian launch vehicle launches.


    The US launched this attack a long time ago. They have already blocked launch contracts on our carrier rockets. But what does this mean? They cannot win in fair competition and resort to cc to their favorite methods.
    Rogozin:
    “I know several situations when customers would like to fly with our missiles, but because of US dastardly sanctions they were forced to refuse. This is the case if the spacecraft has components made in United States of America ”,.
    What does this have to do with competition? And how this confirms the thesis about our "backwardness".

    We can't imagine anything ourselves, so at least we will adorn our grandfather's orders.


    You are a nice person for yourself, please publish such statements.
    I am Roman Skomorokhov, I don’t represent anything, but I like to publish my tantrums ...
    And for all there is no need ...
    1. atalef
      atalef April 15 2021 12: 00
      +4
      Quote: Brancodd
      The cost of launching Falcon9 is $ 63 million. The cost of Hangara A5 (not serial) is 7 billion rubles ($ 95 million). Serial production 10 pcs. per year the planned price is 4.4 bln.

      What are you talking about?
      Does the hangara fly? Can put into orbit a satellite (working) What are we talking about?
      Comparing the working rocket of the Mask and Angara with its 2 launches is not just not real, but in general it is somehow silly.
      She still has not completed the test program, the first launch is scheduled with a workload in 2025.
      but they are already comparing and even like 10 flights a year.
      Some kind of sur.
      Quote: Brancodd
      In fact, the Angara A5 can be compared with the Arian 6.

      appropriate? it is appropriate not to compare the shopping mall one (Arian 5) has been flying since 1996 Karl. 25 years of flying!
      but you are comparing while allowing yourself.
      Quote: Brancodd
      Hangar A5 outperforms Arian 6. Not much, but outperforms. But here's the bad luck "Arian 6" "damn it doesn't fly ...

      Angara does not fly the same, yet.
      Quote: Brancodd
      They cannot win in fair competition and resort to cc to their favorite methods.

      And what prevents Roskosmos from acting with the same methods?
      Quote: Brancodd
      What does this have to do with competition? And how this confirms the thesis about our "backwardness".

      "The Russian side in 2021 plans to carry out 10 launches with Soyuz-2 and Soyuz-ST carrier rockets in the interests of foreign customers," Saveliev said.

      According to the deputy general director of the state corporation, four of them will pass from the Baikonur cosmodrome and three each from Vostochny and Kuru (French Guiana). At the same time, the launch of the apparatus of the European global satellite navigation system Galileo is expected from the Kuru cosmodrome.

      In the second quarter of 2021, the launch of the Earth remote sensing spacecraft CAS500-1 is planned from Baikonur in the interests of the Republic of Korea with a group of 34 foreign and Russian spacecraft launched as an associated payload.

      The contract with the Korean Institute of Aerospace Research for the launch of the CAS500-1 spacecraft was signed by Glavkosmos and Glavkosmos Launch Services on August 17, 2017; the next day, a similar contract was signed with Korea Aerospace Industries for the launch of CAS500-2. Both vehicles are planned to be launched on the Soyuz-2.1a launch vehicle from the Baikonur cosmodrome.

      and these types of sanctions are not afraid?
      somehow it does not fit
      Quote: Brancodd
      And how this confirms the thesis about our "backwardness".

      very simple. By all accounts, Musk is ahead. Does it somehow require no proof or do you need it for you?
  • Holuay T.O
    Holuay T.O April 15 2021 11: 46
    -4
    The system that developed after the collapse of the USSR and broke the previous one
    SchA in the CPC blat, in order to fly into space, the applicant married the beginning of physical training, psychologists are incompetent, in the cosmonaut corps no one speaks the language
    programming
    All women with triple chin and fat booty
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 April 15 2021 11: 51
    0
    "And when, in March 2021, the head of the Accounts Chamber Kudrin reported that Roscosmos again stole $ 30 billion ..." amounts for programs for a specified period of time.
    And a question to the author - you copied this text from Ilya Varlamov from his release about space, word for word.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 April 15 2021 11: 55
    +2
    Honestly, we became like spoiled children who were promised sweets in the form of flights to the Moon and Mars, but they are not given. For some time we washed as a "boatman", sending astronauts to the ISS. Now there are other tasks. Why was cosmonautics in the USSR at the proper level? At that time, they were not sprayed on secondary programs. And even the launch of "Buran" gave contemporaries a lot of material. There will be a Moon. But the next generations will deal with Mars. There are too many problems with these flights.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 15 2021 17: 05
      +1
      This is how a super-heavy rocket and the entire infrastructure for it will be created in Russia, so long-distance flights of the Station in the orbit of the Moon of Mars and manned flights there will be. In the meantime, we are content with what we have.
  • Brancodd
    Brancodd April 15 2021 12: 36
    +3
    Comparing the working rocket of the Mask and Angara with its 2 launches is not just not real, but in general it is somehow silly.

    Are you talking about the Mask? Musk:
    “Russia has excellent rocket technology and the best engine available. The reusable version of their new Angara rocket would be excellent. ”
    "Apart from ours, Zenit is perhaps the next best",
    She still has not completed the test program, the first launch is scheduled with a workload in 2025.

    The fourth launch will be carried out with a workload (satellite of the Ministry of Defense). At the beginning of 2022. In 2023, there will be the first launch from the Vostochny cosmodrome with Orel (in unmanned mode). In 2025, which you mentioned, there will be a launch with the Eagle in manned mode
    appropriate? it is appropriate not to compare the shopping mall one (Arian 5) has been flying since 1996 Karl. 25 years of flying!
    but you are comparing while allowing yourself.

    If you beat more carefully, you would have noticed that I was comparing the Angara A5 with Ariane 6 (not with Ariane 5). Ariane 5 with a launch cost of EUR 150 million is not a competitor in commercial launches. That is why ESA has been trying to create Ariane 2006 since 6. With a planned price of EUR 100 million. But so far, Arian 6 has not flown. Will not fly this year either. Perhaps by the end of the next
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart April 15 2021 12: 48
    +5
    While in the USSR space was still a "thing in itself", the United States began to monetize and commercialize it much earlier, and about the launch of television and other comm. satellites, and about profiting from space developments (like the same Teflon) - while in our case all this was still super-military and super-secret and there were a lot of different Polish-Asian cosmonauts there, whom we launched for reasons prestige. Thus, initially, our attitude to space was damn wrong from the point of view of its development - we did not aim at a partial recoupment of this system or at its potential in terms of introducing our technical ideas around the world - for us it was an expensive political and military toy. Scientific tasks for space were, of course, set, but they were mostly "without a soul" and without massive exhaust - the creation of "Mir", attempts to explore Mars, the flight to Halley's comet and the landing of the apparatus on Venus (as well as the work of the Lunokhod) stand out in this series. ... However, even in these unambiguously highly practical areas, we did not bring the matter to the end - we did not achieve the landing of a workable product on Mars, did not achieve a workable product in Mars orbit, did not solve the overall problem of high-quality shooting and comparable to American data transmission technologies - as a result The United States went further and all (or almost all) high-quality photos of the planets of the solar system, almost all information on trans-Mars objects came from the United States and not from us. The same Lunokhod and colossal developments on it did not result in something like Sojourner - Spirit - Opportunity, did not contribute to some kind of qualitative revival of the electronic or electronic computing, or robotic industry of the USSR (some revival is completely incommensurate with the scale, which could potentially set these developments within the national economy). Our flight to Halley could have resulted in the Hayabusa, but it did not pour out, we again deeply licked the ice cream cone and passed it on instead of eating ourselves. "Venus" and the World are perhaps the most practically completed direction of our cosmic efforts - otherwise we did not show either sufficient greed or sufficient methodicality.

    The same "Phobos" and "Mars-96", albeit the legacy of the murky post-Soviet period, were also not brought to the end with due persistence and will. It has always saddened me that our wildest interests did not extend beyond the orbit of Mars, which we really could not even grasp - while the "Pioneers" "Voyagers" "Vikings" went further, demonstrating a technological culture, reliability and superiority inaccessible us. It didn't seem to bother us at all - and yet it was a slap in the face comparable to losing the Moon Race, unfortunately.

    The structure of our economy - what then, what is now - was extremely unsuccessful for capitalizing on space and high-tech R&D - and no one set the task of how to change this trend, which is why we so easily yielded our place in terms of launches and price, load outputs to just anyone. All this is a sad reason to think about the mistakes and systemic errors that our country encounters from time to time while creating something. This is an eternal problem in our relationship, our deep philosophy. Somewhere inside our perception of the world there is a flaw that prevents us from spreading our wings and shoving towards a bright future - and this flaw is reflected in everything we do.
  • antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter April 15 2021 12: 57
    -5
    It is necessary to transfer Roskosmos either to the Ministry of Defense or to the Federal Penitentiary Service, then things will get better.
    Put Rogozin on the Vostochny barrier.
    1. Brancodd
      Brancodd April 15 2021 14: 03
      +4
      The Ministry of Defense, represented by Spetsstroy, has already worked on Vostochny. All 140 criminal cases are connected with this period.
      Well, let's look at the results of the "military" leadership of Roscosmos


      - Anatoly Perminov (2004 - 2011). A military rocketman, a native of the Strategic Missile Forces, he directed the Plesetsk cosmodrome, commanded the Space Forces. The specificity of the rocket and space industry is that it takes several years from the production of rockets and payloads to their launch. 6 years after Perminov came to Roscosmos, a massive loss of rockets began. Between 2010 and 2018, 20 unsuccessful launches happened - this was only in the first years of space exploration. Under him, the discipline of production was destroyed, many projects were wrapped up and slowed down. It is Anatoly Perminov who can be called responsible for the decline of the space industry.

      - Vladimir Popovkin (2011-2013). Military, served in the General Staff, commanded the Space Forces, was the Deputy Minister of Defense. For two years of work as the head of Roskosmos, he could not achieve a significant change in the situation. Rockets continued to fall live.

      Oleg Ostapenko (2013 - 2015). A military rocket engineer, a native of the Strategic Missile Forces, he was in charge of the Plesetsk cosmodrome, the space forces and the Aerospace Defense Forces, he was the Deputy Minister of Defense. As the head of Roscosmos, he has not achieved much success in two years.

      And not only the military

      - Igor Komarov (2015 - 2018). "Effective manager". He worked at Sberbank, Norilsk Nickel and AvtoVAZ. Like his predecessors, he also did not shine with special successes at Roskosmos. Rockets fell, all the dates of significant projects shifted to the right, the Vostochny cosmodrome was barely completed.
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 15 2021 13: 01
    0
    Quote: glory1974
    a difficult question. I would say that it is also the absence of professionals who have been pushed aside from decision-making. And the lack of breakthrough solutions that allow for radical or revolutionary improvement of technology, and the loss of competencies in the construction of devices

    And where to get them - professionals, and breakthrough solutions? winked lol
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth April 15 2021 13: 15
      +2
      Breakthrough solutions come from geniuses. Implemented by professionals.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov April 15 2021 14: 02
    +9
    The King's Seven (R-7, on which Gagarin flew) has a payload of 2,7%. The new Angara has 2,5%.
    Americans have 18,5% on Apollo.

    1. Masa Saturn-5 with Apolon-16 2970 tons with a payload of 140 tons in low orbit. My payload is 4,7%. How did it get to 18,5%, only you know?
    2. The price of one Saturn-5 launch is $ 1,23 billion in 2019 prices, or approximately $ 8,8 million per ton of payload. Compare with less than 3 million for the Proton and you will understand why Saturn-5 has not been flying for a long time.
    3. Even more interesting is the same for the Shuttle - 27,5 tons maximum payload and starting weight of 2030 tons or 1,4%. The minimum price for one launch is $ 600 million in 2012 prices, or an outrageous $ 21 million per ton of payload.
    1. region58
      region58 April 20 2021 19: 23
      0
      Quote: Kostadinov
      How did it get to 18,5%, only you know?

      And he took the Lunar Module separately, and for some reason only its landing stage. Thus, it is possible to calculate the take-off stage of the Lunar Module separately - there will be fifty percent. How all this turned out to be on the moon is modestly silent ... teleportation was probably used request ...
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 15 2021 14: 32
    +3
    Quote: forty-eighth
    Breakthrough solutions come from geniuses. Implemented by professionals.

    Brilliant! And ... corny. It's all the same that oil is oil .... lol
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov April 15 2021 14: 38
    +3
    Quote: ALARI
    And why for Russia in dollars or do we pay people to suppliers or technology in dollars? Or industry salaries are comparable to the US.

    And because a respected author in dollars would like to show how much Russia has lagged behind the United States.
    Salaries make up a very small share of all expenses in the industry and, in addition, they must be compared at a parity rate (purchasing power).
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 15 2021 17: 10
      -1
      And now you can see the original source of this article.
  • Alexander Ivanov_10
    Alexander Ivanov_10 April 15 2021 16: 48
    -1
    We will ALWAYS be the first !!!!
    You can't always be in the lead for all sorts of reasons. The Americans also started from second place and others from other places.
    Everything will work out, there would be a desire. And the desire is there. No need to whine, but work.
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 April 16 2021 10: 16
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Ivanov_10
      And the desire is there. No need to whine, but work.

      WANTING IS NOT HARMFUL .... But working without funding? It is curious how you imagine THIS concretely. It is, of course, at the kindergarten level you can ... take more, throw it on and everything will work out.
      Like the fact that "we won the war in spite of the fools-Bolsheviks because" there was a desire to win. "
      And then why does such a people need a State at all, if it works in spite of it and achieves everything?
      In my opinion, if the population does not understand the connection between state funding and the work of industries, the most amazing thing is that such a country exists at all!
      1. Alexander Ivanov_10
        Alexander Ivanov_10 April 16 2021 11: 07
        -2
        You are exaggerating! Nothing is possible without funding. There will be money. Additional personnel will be trained. Quickly, only the cats are born and the Shuttle program closes.
  • Brancodd
    Brancodd April 15 2021 18: 57
    0
    And when, in March 2021, the head of the Accounts Chamber, Kudrin, reported that 30 billion had again been stolen from Roscosmos ...

    Article 128.1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, the dissemination of deliberately false information discrediting someone's honor, dignity or reputation since January applies to publications on the Internet.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov April 16 2021 09: 44
    0
    Well, let's go quickly - Mars:
    2 Mars rovers with different set of instruments and a landing station - USA.
    Orbital platform MAM - India.
    Orbital platform - UAE.
    An orbital platform and the other day landing - China.
    There is no Russia - only devices on other people's devices.

    Even faster is Venus, which is somewhat more difficult than Mars.
    USSR without competition.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Givi_49
    Givi_49 April 16 2021 11: 49
    +2
    The author is obsessed with money. An effective economist, I suppose.
    Space is, first of all, science and only then commercial launches (which are of little interest to anyone). Science seems to have problems with ideas, since they require money for ideas.
    Space is the ability to produce everything you need and do it efficiently. The USSR could, but modern Russia cannot.
    And most importantly: space is people. During the construction of "Vostochny" - 140 criminal cases, and how many criminal cases were initiated during the construction of "Baikonur"? The difference in the quality of people is cosmic.
    You need to start everything from the very beginning. From people. From morality, from upbringing, from education, from the selection and placement of personnel. In any industry. I wish us a conscious and systematic movement towards our goals. Success will follow.
  • ALEX_SHTURMAN
    ALEX_SHTURMAN April 16 2021 13: 31
    +1
    The current situation in Russian cosmonautics is very similar to the pre-war situation in the 1930s, which developed in the domestic aircraft industry, which was very well described in his book "Rockets and People" by an outstanding person Boris Evseevich Chertok. German fighters were superior to ours at the initial stage of the war, and the aircraft designers were well aware of this, but the authorities demanded an increase in the production of old equipment, instead of developing a new one. All these giant fortresses TB-3 and so on were good for the 1920s, but not the 40s. So now in Roskosmos they do not want to notice the obvious that Angara and other projects were good for the 1990s, maybe 2000s, but the rocket must be built with an eye on 20 years ahead and it must be competitive in the world market. Well, you can't throw the plane after every flight. You need to think about reusability, partial or preferably complete.
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar April 16 2021 13: 37
    0
    Nice photo in the title of the article, but where is the inscription "USSR" on the helmet of the First? She was present in all the photographs of that time. Maybe that's why we "were"?
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. April 16 2021 14: 03
    +2
    Rudnev found it necessary to answer in his own way: "If we fully count all the costs for each launch, it turns out that we are shooting cities. Previous successes have turned our heads, and we strive for new ones, regardless of the cost ...

    B. Chertok Rockets and people. h2

    Although this quote is not about that, but it reflects well the current economic capabilities of Russia and Roscosmos: a poor country - 11th economy in the world and 6th in terms of launches.
    Efficiency is not measured by the number of starts.
    But with this, everything is very, very bad in space exploration - a monstrous lag behind NASA.
    Names and objects like "Korolev Crater" will not appear on the maps of space objects, if you do not engage in space exploration.
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 April 16 2021 18: 50
    -2
    Damned capitalism destroys everything.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 19 2021 08: 41
      0
      China in the know?
      1. Gardener91
        Gardener91 April 19 2021 21: 32
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        China in the know?

        In the course, there is now a worker 1 day of vacation a year up to 10 years of experience, and after - 2.
  • Xscorpion
    Xscorpion April 18 2021 07: 28
    +3
    .Now, perhaps, it is clear why there are only pleasant memories of 108 launches in 1982? Because in 2020 we mastered only 17. And for the period from 2015 to 2020 inclusive, Russia made 102 launches. That is, it is still less than the Soviet Union did in 1982.

    It may be enough to waste hundreds of launches a year in the USSR? This was a forced measure due to the maintenance of the reconnaissance constellation of satellites, which had to be changed several times a month. And 90 percent of all launches were associated with this. Now satellites live for several years in orbit. in contrast to the USSR, where their lifespan was weeks, or even days. So you need to be proud that you don't need so many launches. For what? To console the pride of illiterate readers? Who, apart from numbers, understand nothing?
  • lazy
    lazy April 18 2021 17: 55
    0
    and what did musk do? he sent people into space, so Roskosmos never stopped doing it. he created a reusable first stage and a ship, and now launches will now become cheaper, well, the Americans already had reusable ships (out of 4 components, 3 reusable, only a disposable tank) and it was not cheaper, although the shuttle would be an order of magnitude more cargo to be put into orbit. And the fact that NASA has raised the price by 7 times suggests that either the launches are not so cheap or the masks with the help of NASA cuts the state budget by overlapping with expensive state launches the dumping prices of commercial
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion April 19 2021 08: 40
    0
    Do not forget about the Su-57, which is not produced. And about the exploding rockets Musk. Discussing Rogozin's tweets is bad manners.

    In general, I'm interested in how you can be the first, when the same USA, even in Soviet times, had an incomparable NASA budget.
    1. Darkesstcat
      Darkesstcat April 19 2021 16: 06
      0
      There was an idea, and we worked for it.