Military Review

A dangerous, but not numerous enemy. SPG Ferdinand

56

ACS Ferdinand from the Patriot park (previously kept in the museum in Kubinka). The car became a trophy of the Red Army during the Battle of Kursk


In July 1943, Hitler's Germany first used the latest self-propelled fighters tanks Sd.Kfz. 184 / 8,8 cm StuK 43 Sfl L / 71 Panzerjäger Tiger (P) / Ferdinand. These vehicles, distinguished by powerful armor and weapons, were supposed to break through the Soviet defenses and ensure the general offensive of the Wehrmacht. However, despite all the technical advantages, the Ferdinands near Kursk and in other sectors of the front often suffered serious losses.

Combat millimeters


The production of the Ferdinand self-propelled guns started at the beginning of 1943 and lasted until the summer. In a few months, only 91 armored vehicles were manufactured; production stopped there and was no longer resumed. All self-propelled guns were distributed between the 653rd and 654th heavy anti-tank battalions (Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung), included in the 656th tank regiment. The battalion initially included three companies of three platoons and had 45 armored vehicles. Later, as the materiel was lost, the battalions were reorganized and optimized.

The hull of the Sd.Kfz.184 self-propelled guns was made of rolled armor of great thickness. Slightly inclined frontal parts were 100 mm thick and were complemented by a 100 mm overhead screen. The sides were made of sheets with a thickness of 80 mm (top) and 60 mm (bottom); feed - 80 mm. The hull received a 30 mm roof and a bottom with a thickness of 20 to 50 mm. The wheelhouse with the gun corresponded to the hull in its protection. She had a 200 mm forehead and 80 mm sides and stern. The frontal armor was supplemented with a 125 mm thick mask.


Mask, gun and forehead with traces of impact - "Ferdinand" from the Tank Museum in Bovington

In the wheelhouse, the PaK 43/2 anti-tank gun of 88 mm caliber with a barrel length of 71 clb was installed. The high power of this weapon led to the need to use a developed two-chamber muzzle brake and recoil devices. Horizontal aiming was carried out within a sector with a width of 28 °, vertical - from -8 ° to + 14 °.

The PaK 43/2 cannon used unitary shots with the Pzgr.39-1 armor-piercing tracer projectile (the most massive ammunition), the Pzgr.40 / 43 subcaliber or the Sprgr.43 high-explosive fragmentation projectile. Armor-piercing ammunition was distinguished by its high performance. So, from 100 m, the Pzgr. 39-1 projectile pierced more than 200 mm of homogeneous armor (tilt 30 ° from the vertical), and the Pzgr. 40/43 - approx. 240 mm. Penetration per 1 km was 165 and 193 mm, respectively. From 2 km, shells penetrated 132 and 153 mm of armor.

Advantages and disadvantages


At the time of its appearance, the PaK 43/2 cannon penetrated the armor of all anti-Hitler coalition tanks from a distance of at least 2-2,5 km. This situation persisted until 1943-44, when new heavy tanks with more powerful armor appeared in the armament of the Allied countries. However, they also took risks when approaching Ferdinand.


German self-propelled guns go to the front, Kursk Bulge, July 1943

In its original configuration, the self-propelled gun did not have a machine gun for self-defense. It was introduced only during the modernization of 1944. The MG-34 machine gun was installed on the installation in the frontal embrasure of the hull. It is believed that the lack of a machine gun in the early stages of operation and a limited sector of shelling in the later ones negatively affected the stability of the self-propelled guns when meeting enemy infantry.

Reservations with a thickness of up to 200 mm provided the German self-propelled gun with protection from almost all expected threats. However, complete safety was not guaranteed. Already during the first episodes of the combat use of the Sd.Kfz.184 self-propelled guns, they suffered losses from mines, artillery and infantry weapons... Soon, Soviet specialists examined the captured vehicles and conducted shelling tests, resulting in recommendations for combating such equipment.


A couple of destroyed self-propelled guns. The commander's "Ferdinand" in the background came under artillery fire and lost its speed, after which the Red Army men set it on fire

It was found that the 45-mm and 76-mm cannons of the Red Army only hit the side armor and only with the use of certain types of projectiles, and in a limited range of ranges. 85-mm shells from 1 km pierced the side or got stuck in it, but knocked out fragments from the inside of the armor. The ML-20 howitzer showed the best results. Its 152 mm projectile split the frontal sheet of the hull and the overhead shield with a total thickness of 200 mm.

On the battlefield


Both anti-tank battalions on the Ferdinands were involved in Operation Citadel. The newest self-propelled guns, with the support of other armored vehicles, were supposed to break through the Soviet defenses on the northern face of the Kursk Bulge. Over the next few weeks, the Sd.Kfz.184 self-propelled guns actively participated in battles, inflicted damage on the Red Army and suffered losses. At the same time, the main features of such a technique were fully shown.


The same cars from a different angle

The first battles with Ferdinand's participation took place on July 8-9, 1943. Using their technical advantages, German self-propelled guns attacked Soviet tanks and fortifications from a long distance. During the Battle of Kursk, they reported on the destruction of hundreds of armored vehicles of the Red Army - although this is far from consistent with Soviet data. At the same time, there were serious losses. Until the end of August, for various reasons, 39 self-propelled guns were lost, and 50 remained in service.

About a quarter of the losses of the "Ferdinands" fell on the first days of the battle and were provided by the Red Army sappers. 10 self-propelled guns were blown up by mines and caught fire or were set on fire by the Soviet infantry after the loss of progress. Attempts to evacuate the damaged equipment failed due to lack of the necessary funds.


A couple more "Ferdinands" with a damaged chassis

The artillery and tanks of the Red Army had limited potential against the German self-propelled guns, but still inflicted some damage on them. So, at least 5-6 armored vehicles were damaged undercarriage and / or other units, after which they were abandoned. In particular, one of the self-propelled guns caught fire due to the hit of a 76-mm projectile in the area of ​​the fuel tank. Cannon damage known. Several vehicles came under fire from Soviet heavy howitzers with fatal consequences. One of them died from a direct hit of a 203-mm projectile in the commander's hatch. There is a known case of the destruction of an ACS as a result of a smaller-caliber shell hitting the open hatch of the driver.

In the Kursk direction, the Red Army Air Force was actively working, but only one successful attack on Ferdinand is known for certain. A bomb from a Pe-2 plane hit the roof of the fighting compartment and destroyed it in an explosion.

One of the self-propelled guns at the initial stage of the battle came under fire from German artillery, was damaged and was abandoned. Several more self-propelled guns broke down during the battles for one reason or another, and in two cases there was a fire. On August 2, 1943, the Red Army men liberated Art. Eagle and took a trophy a whole German self-propelled gun, preparing for evacuation.

A dangerous, but not numerous enemy. SPG Ferdinand

The result of a direct hit from an aerial bomb

Subsequently, the remaining fifty Ferdinand machines were used at the Nikopol bridgehead, in Italy and in Germany. Gradually, for one reason or another, most of the existing self-propelled guns were lost. At the same time, the causes of losses did not fundamentally change, although their ratio depended on various factors.

Ambiguous result


In the Sd.Kfz.184 project, solutions were used aimed at obtaining the maximum possible characteristics of protection and firepower. At the same time, there were several controversial features and obvious shortcomings. In July 1943, vehicles in this configuration entered the battlefield and partially met expectations. The cannon and armor showed their best side - but other problems arose.

On the Kursk Bulge and on other fronts, the Ferdinands fought not only with tanks. The self-propelled guns risked being blown up by a mine, falling under fire from heavy howitzers, getting an unsuccessful hit on a vital unit, etc. There was also a possibility of breakdown, and the lack of evacuation means often led to the actual loss of equipment.


The famous photo of Y. Khalip with a padded self-propelled gun. The journalist and writer K.M. Simonov

The small number of self-propelled guns became a serious problem. Two battalions with nine dozen armored vehicles could affect the course of a separate operation. However, the value of such a grouping was constantly decreasing due to losses and due to the impossibility of replenishing them. Already in 1944, in different sectors of the front, it was necessary to use only individual units of small numbers and with a reduced combat potential.

In general, the German self-propelled tank destroyer Sd.Kfz.184 Ferdinand posed a great danger to tanks and stationary facilities of the Red Army and allied countries. An open confrontation with such an enemy threatened with significant losses and, at least, complicating the situation in a specific sector of defense.

However, already in their first battle, the Ferdinands met with a well-organized echeloned defense, which knocked out almost half of such equipment in a few weeks. Thus, practice has shown again that in a real war, the tabular characteristics of equipment are of great importance, but are not decisive. There are many other factors that can neutralize the technical superiority of some samples over others. As the fate of the "Ferdinands" shows, as well as the results of the Battle of Kursk and the Great Patriotic War in general, our army has mastered and used this knowledge well.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikimedia Commons, Waralbum.ru
56 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 April 14 2021 18: 14
    +35
    These vehicles, distinguished by powerful armor and weapons, were supposed to break through the Soviet defenses and ensure the general offensive of the Wehrmacht.
    These vehicles were NOT INTENDED for breaking through the defense, and precisely because they were assigned the role of tanks, in breaking through the Soviet defense, they suffered heavy losses, since they did not even have machine guns for self-defense.
    This is an ANTI-TANK SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY INSTALLATION (PT ACS), with excellent armor and its place on the flanks of attacking tanks, slightly in the distance, and not in front of the infantry.
    1. lucul
      lucul April 14 2021 18: 31
      +14
      This is an ANTI-TANK SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY INSTALLATION (PT ACS), with excellent armor and its place on the flanks of attacking tanks, slightly in the distance, and not in front of the infantry.

      What's the difference ? Have you noticed that in all the photos they seriously fell through our soil? And this is the month of July. What would happen in autumn and spring?
      Simple mobile bunker for stony soils.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 14 2021 18: 41
        +11
        Quote: lucul
        What's the difference ?

        huge, it was created for a different tactics of its use.
        Quote: lucul
        Have you noticed that in all the photos they seriously fell through our soil?

        I did not notice much failure. Everything is within the normal range.
        Quote: lucul
        And this is the month of July.

        After heavy rains. Because of them, the operation was postponed several times.
        Quote: lucul
        Simple mobile bunker for stony soils.

        Not. Tank destroyer
        1. Sahalinets
          Sahalinets April 15 2021 02: 22
          +8
          huge, it was created for a different tactics of its use.

          Strictly speaking, it was created for a ready-made chassis from Porsche that was not useful to the Tiger. Erzats-solution, but it was too bad for the very expensive chassis.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. April 15 2021 07: 20
            +7
            Quote: Sahalinets
            Strictly speaking, it was created for a ready-made chassis from Porsche that was not useful to the Tiger.
            Quite right, "Ferdinand, aka" Elephant ", was an ersatz solution, where they decided to use the chassis already made for self-propelled guns. This, unfortunately, actually remained" behind the scenes "in the article. The self-propelled gun was not created on purpose, the German name is 8,8 cm StuK 43 Sfl L / 71 Panzerjäger Tiger (P), Sturmkanone mit 8,8 cm StuK 43, Sd.Kfz. 184.
            1. svp67
              svp67 April 15 2021 11: 05
              +3
              Quote: Sahalinets
              Strictly speaking, it was created for a ready-made chassis from Porsche that was not useful to the Tiger. Erzats-solution, but it was too bad for the very expensive chassis.

              Quote: Per se.
              Quite right, "Ferdinand, aka" Elephant ", was an ersatz solution, where they decided to use the already made chassis for self-propelled guns

              But this did not prevent the launch of a small series of this tank destroyer. Yes, monstrously expensive thanks to its "miracle" electric transmission, but also very efficient thanks to the powerful 88mm Pak 43 cannon.
              It was not for nothing that the Germans put it on the much cheaper and more numerous PT ACS "Rhino"

              And, of course, to your best tank destroyer "Jagdpanther"
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS April 14 2021 18: 37
      +17
      It was precisely on the booking that they counted on when the 654th battalion of heavy tank destroyers (45 self-propelled guns "Ferdinand") was included in the combined strike group commanded by Major Kal, hoping that the 200-mm frontal booking of anti-tank self-propelled guns would be "too tough "Soviet artillery, the battle formation of the strike group was lined up with a wedge at the tip of which were the very" Ferdinands. "However, everything did not go according to plan from the very beginning. And the Germans used self-propelled guns in all battles of the Great Patriotic War, starting with the assault on Brest June 1941 and ending with the battles in Berlin. The degree of importance assigned to the SPG by the leadership of the Third Reich can be judged by this example: if in 1941 the Germans released tanks seven times more than SPGs, then in the next year the release of SPGs exceeded the release tanks twice, and during the first five months of 1945, the German industry produced 2934 self-propelled guns and 998 tanks, that is, the number of self-propelled guns produced three times exceeded if the number of tanks produced, while it was the self-propelled guns that actually became the most effective weapon for supporting infantry and tanks both in the offensive and during the retreat. Well, the fact that the Sd.Kfz.184 did not play a big role during the whole war was from their small number.
      1. kytx
        kytx April 15 2021 01: 15
        +5
        [quote = WHAT IS]. The degree of importance that the leadership of the Third Reich attributed to the ACS can be judged by this example: if in 1941 the Germans released tanks seven times more than ACS, then in the next year the release of ACS exceeded the release of tanks in twice, and during the first five months of 1945, the German industry produced 2934 self-propelled guns and 998 tanks, that is, the number of self-propelled guns produced three times exceeded the number of tanks released, while it was the self-propelled guns that actually became the most effective weapon to support infantry and tanks both in the offensive , and when leaving. [quote = WHAT IS]

        It seems to me that the point is that the sau is produced faster and cheaper.
        just :)
        1. The popuas
          The popuas April 16 2021 11: 55
          0
          Not that it would be faster ... we were more on the defensive ... well, this is my personal opinion
          1. kytx
            kytx April 16 2021 14: 41
            0
            we are talking about the same thing :)
    3. yehat2
      yehat2 April 15 2021 10: 13
      -1
      I agree, these self-propelled guns would have shown themselves excellently on the second line of troops.
      but if they had not been allowed ahead of the others, the Germans would have suffered even heavier losses.
      Moreover, the Germans perfectly understood all these nuances, and when there was an opportunity to use self-propelled guns normally, they did so. Later the elephants (they put 2 machine guns on Ferdinand) and jagdtigers, used "regularly", pounded very solid tanks. Both ours and allies,
      suffering losses mainly from aviation and howitzer artillery.
      The author of the article did not say 1 nuance - these self-propelled guns had an electric transmission.
    4. Romka47
      Romka47 April 15 2021 16: 57
      0
      Let us then be historical and honest to the end, it was created as a pure heavy breakthrough tank, and it was originally built by a tank, Porsche began to build them without waiting for an order, since he was Adolf's sidekick and was sure of winning the competition, and in the end he won the well-known tiger , and the hulls were decided to be converted into a tank destroyer. And then you are right, what happened should cover from the flank and from afar.
    5. yehat2
      yehat2 22 June 2021 11: 35
      0
      it was originally a heavy tank, not an SPG. It was then that they were converted into self-propelled guns and a hundred Henschel tigers with a non-standard turret appeared.
      And their booking was quite consistent with the role they performed at Kursk.
      The problem, as you rightly said, was the lack of machine guns, but not only that.
      The problem was in the camouflage of the anti-tank defense system, because of which the Germans were forced to put the thickest vehicles in front, because otherwise they would quickly lose all the lighter ones, as well as in the very thin side armor of most tanks and as infantry, which could no longer properly cover tanks, as she did in 40-41 years.
  2. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev April 14 2021 18: 24
    +8
    A useless and very expensive pile of scrap metal. A hundred and five Stugs would do more than 90 useless monsters.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 14 2021 18: 59
      +18
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      A useless and very expensive pile of scrap metal. A hundred and five Stugs would do more than 90 useless monsters.

      It's just that the article does not mention the main thing: the Ferdinands were not special-purpose self-propelled guns, but were a way to somehow attach a groundwork for an order for 100 "tigers" issued by Porsche in July 1941 as part of a competition for a new TT. The fact is that the Germans decided to shorten the launch time of the new tank, and ordered Porsche and Henschel not only experimental vehicles (3 units each), but also 100 tanks of the first series. The "Henschel" cars that won the competition went into action. And the touch on the “Porshevsky” went to the “Ferdinands”.
      So the "Tiger" Porsche repeated the fate of the VK3001 (H) that did not enter the series - the latter, too, became the "Sturer Emil" self-propelled guns from the tank.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev April 14 2021 19: 32
        +2
        Yes, but it would be better to send the hulls to scrap metal and make something more efficient. I can imagine what was the cost of shipping this to the front, maintenance and fuel.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish April 14 2021 20: 54
        +6
        Good evening, Alex. hi
        Quite a fair comment. Below is a photo of Porsche's "Tiger", an unfortunate victim of a competitive struggle, maybe for our luck, what do you think?


        1. yehat2
          yehat2 April 15 2021 10: 15
          -4
          pigr is one of my favorite tanks in WOT)))
          difficult to use, but with a skill better than a tiger.
          as well as the VK3001 Porsche, from which the pigr grew.
    2. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth April 14 2021 19: 02
      +4
      The Stugs were still a mobile infantry support artillery, and the Ferdinands were anti-tank self-propelled guns.
      In general, I do not dispute your statement, but it is a fact: where the Ferdinands were, Stug could not be by definition, they would have been used in another sector of the front.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev April 14 2021 19: 34
        +2
        The largest number of destroyed T34s on the account of Shtug is still an anti-tank self-propelled gun: low, well-armed.
        1. Konnick
          Konnick April 14 2021 19: 59
          +6
          The largest number of destroyed T34s on the account of Shtug is still an anti-tank self-propelled gun: low, well-armed.
          .

          Stugs were different, they were short-barreled, with a so-called "stub" like the T-IV, they managed to get into the engine compartment of the T-34 and KV along a hinged trajectory, but in the spring there appeared long-barreled modifications of both the Shtug and the T-IV, which became penetrate the armor of our tanks from a long distance. The defeat of the Crimean Front in May 42 was partly due to the long-barreled SPGs and tanks used by Manstein. And the short-barreled Stugi quite successfully fought our artillery and pillboxes from closed positions.
          1. Vladimir Vyshetravsky
            Vladimir Vyshetravsky 14 May 2021 07: 11
            +1
            The long-barreled Germans themselves nicknamed "Jagdpanzerov". Low, with a powerful cannon, a dangerous hunter for tanks. And "Ferdinand" in the form in which it was created, after all, a tank destroyer for use in an ambush. Ferdinandov, that the "tigers" are often the result of the work of sappers. And then evacuating 60 tons of scrap metal from the battlefield is an unrealistic task.
      2. Konnick
        Konnick April 14 2021 19: 34
        +9
        The Ferdinands were quite successful in destroying our IPTAP batteries, knocking out anti-tank guns from long distances, and if not minefields, then they could break through the defenses. It was after the battles on the Kursk Bulge that the IPTAP began to use a different arrangement of guns, more for the use of flank crossfire, closing the guns from the front and organizing the so-called "fire bags".
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 15 2021 11: 11
          +1
          Quote: Konnick
          It was after the battles on the Kursk Bulge that the IPTAP began to use a different arrangement of guns, more for the use of flank crossfire, closing the guns from the front and organizing the so-called "fire bags".

          Not after, but during. EMNIP, Zamulin had a description of a battle in which the iptabr with the help of a pair of "flirting" guns "turned" German tanks sideways to the main positions.
    3. Free wind
      Free wind April 14 2021 22: 11
      +2
      And several hundred crews, and very expensive ones. Trained crews are very expensive.
    4. kvs45
      kvs45 April 22 2021 01: 17
      0
      A useless and very expensive pile of scrap metal. A hundred and five Stugs would do more than 90 useless monsters.

      the Germans weren't rich enough to make a lot of cheap tanks! There were also not enough raw materials and trained crews
  3. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav April 14 2021 18: 26
    +6
    I agree with you, this is a mobile pillbox for active defense, but their losses on the Kursk Bulge are mainly from mines
  4. Vadim Ananyin
    Vadim Ananyin April 14 2021 18: 28
    +9
    The barrel of this machine and now, in general and in general, has not bad qualities, this is not my personal opinion. And at that time it was very bad, but our ancestors coped with it.
  5. Alien From
    Alien From April 14 2021 18: 47
    +2
    Heavy, clumsy, expensive, unreliable, without a machine gun, Porsche, with great difficulty, covered this sau with the Wehrmacht.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick April 14 2021 19: 40
      +3
      From the 44th, the Ferdinands were with a course machine gun, and before that there were only loopholes on the sides for firing from the MR. By the way, the self-propelled guns had a retractable panoramic sight, it was removed to protect it from small arms fire.
    2. Ryaruav
      Ryaruav April 14 2021 19: 50
      +7
      heavy, expensive unreliable 90 pieces were produced, as of March 1945 28 units were used in the Ardennes, for some reason they were not written off, they were not left in training units
  6. Alf
    Alf April 14 2021 19: 48
    +1
    One of them died from a direct hit of a 203-mm projectile in the commander's hatch.

    Interestingly, at least the skating rinks remained from her?
    1. Bormanxnumx
      Bormanxnumx April 14 2021 20: 05
      +5
      Quote: Alf

      Interestingly, at least the skating rinks remained from her?


      High-explosive "weaving" with Pe-2 more effectively decomposed Fedya)
      1. Alf
        Alf April 14 2021 20: 11
        +1
        Quote: BORMAN82
        Quote: Alf

        Interestingly, at least the skating rinks remained from her?


        Nope, I don't agree.
        Clearly stated-
        from a direct hit of a 203-mm projectile into the commander's hatch.

        The commander's hatch is located horizontally on the roof of the wheelhouse and the 203-mm howitzer shell could not hit it with direct fire. Only with mounted shooting. The roof armor is never 80 or 100 mm, so an 30-inch projectile could and should have penetrated the 8-mm roof at once. It is unlikely that anything would have remained after the SPG after it exploded inside.
        1. Bormanxnumx
          Bormanxnumx April 14 2021 20: 43
          +3
          Yes, there is another Fenya hit by a 203 mm shell - hull number 701 from the third company of the 654th battalion. There is no photo in the killed state. According to Soviet documents, the reason for the loss of the vehicle was the hit of a 203-mm projectile in the BO. The car is destroyed.
          I think that the scale of destruction will not get used to the damage from the explosion of FAB-100 with 45kg of TNT.
          1. Alf
            Alf April 14 2021 20: 46
            +2
            Quote: BORMAN82
            hitting a 203-mm projectile in the BO. The car is completely destroyed.

            I’m talking about this.
            Quote: BORMAN82
            I think that the scale of destruction will not get used to the damage from the explosion of FAB-100 with 45kg of TNT.

            I won't argue, I don't know for sure.
        2. Sergey M. Karasev
          Sergey M. Karasev April 15 2021 02: 33
          +2
          It is unlikely that anything would have remained after the SPG after it exploded inside.

          EMNIP, he did not jerk. He flew into the open hatch, but did not explode, but smeared everything and everyone inside. That is why it is so well preserved.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Aleksandr97
    Aleksandr97 April 14 2021 21: 12
    +7
    Given the small number of vehicles, it still made sense to install a cannon:
    128 mm Pak 44 and Pak 80 cannon (12,8 cm Panzerabwehrkanone 44 and 80).
    1. Lontus
      Lontus April 14 2021 22: 11
      +9
      Quote: Aleksandr97
      Given the small number of vehicles, it still made sense to install a cannon:
      128 mm Pak 44 and Pak 80 cannon (12,8 cm Panzerabwehrkanone 44 and 80).

      It would be necessary to reduce the booking, but this is also for the best for the car - the tactics of application would become more correct - there would be no temptation to send a pig to the very patch.
    2. Alf
      Alf April 15 2021 11: 31
      -1
      Quote: Aleksandr97
      Given the small number of vehicles, it still made sense to install a cannon:
      128 mm Pak 44 and Pak 80 cannon

      What for ? 8,8 / 71 and so perfectly coped with all BTT samples.
      1. Aleksandr97
        Aleksandr97 April 15 2021 13: 28
        0
        It is clear that Elephant is actually impromptu to minimize losses from losing the competition. But, a more powerful cannon would make it possible to find a more effective tactical application on the battlefield and in addition to the role of anti-tank weapons. Although, of course, unlike the ISU-122 and ISU-152, Elephant after the Kursk Bulge had almost no tasks left for breaking the echeloned defense.
        1. Alf
          Alf April 15 2021 19: 22
          -1
          Quote: Aleksandr97
          But, a more powerful cannon would make it possible to find a more effective tactical application on the battlefield and in addition to the role of anti-tank weapons.

          Which one? Destruction of ground targets? So there is no elevation angle.
  9. Mooh
    Mooh April 14 2021 22: 17
    +10
    A very superficial article. The author did not write anything about the history of creation, or about the original name - Elephant. Large losses in the first battle from an echeloned defense, and not because they were sent into a frontal attack and foolishly driven into a minefield. Etc. It's good that the commentators are savvy.
    An interesting fact in the piggy bank: pre-war ship armor from the Kriegsmarine reserves went to make the wheelhouse. They assembled a car from a pine forest, a Porsche Tiger chassis, what gun it was, and ship armor. Blinded from what was and into battle.
  10. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart April 14 2021 22: 24
    +5
    Nice, but heavily armored car. IMHO the Germans would have achieved more, save on booking and somewhat increase the distance of the battle (namely the distance). Shitty maintainability, evacuation features and an overloaded chassis made this project exotic. It is surprising that the issue of mine danger was so poorly worked out in 1943, when the Germans already made the transition from quantity to quality and, using the example of the same "Tigers", caught the trend for problems with the evacuation of this quality in the event of force majeure.
    1. 911sx
      911sx April 14 2021 23: 39
      +4
      In Soviet times, they wrote about several dozen Ferdinands buried in the Seelow Heights. I strongly doubted the credibility of this information (only 91 cars were produced in 1943 and that's it). I wonder when the last Fedya burned down and whether they were then at 45 in the defense of Berlin. If you look at it without prejudice, after such people in 1944 and after, to keep such a heavy and exclusive car even in the 45th is the great heroism of the Fedya operators.
  11. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 April 14 2021 23: 01
    +15
    Do not talk about Ferdinand, but he is a serious adversary. How many Soviet tankers died from his fire, his eternal memory !!!! I am the grandson of a driver mechanic T 34 76, my grandfather went through Prokhorovka and, luckily for them, they got a "balvanka" in the engine, they survived. From childhood memories, the surviving crew met at my grandfather's house on May 9. Finished the war in Kaliningrad from polynya then in the fire. I am proud of my grandfather !!! Breus Vasily Ivanovich !!!
  12. Siberian54
    Siberian54 April 15 2021 09: 15
    0
    All artillerymen, tankers and infantrymen who mention Ferdinant in their memoirs write either respectfully or with sacred horror - by the way, for the destruction of self-propelled guns they gave my "star" and received these stars about three hundred people ...
    1. Alf
      Alf April 15 2021 11: 33
      +1
      Quote: Siberian54
      about three hundred people received these stars ...

      With 91 Ferdinands ...
      1. Siberian54
        Siberian54 April 28 2021 06: 56
        +1
        Nowhere do they lie like in the hunt and war .. someone from the past.
  13. Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 15 2021 10: 22
    +2
    Thus, practice has shown again that in a real war, the tabular characteristics of equipment are of great importance, but are not decisive. There are many other factors that can neutralize the technical superiority of some samples over others.

    I agree with the author's conclusion. There are no miracle weapons. In war, a system works, a combination of all elements and factors. The layered defense system was such a system. Somewhere anti-tank guns went off, where the infantry, where the aviation. Overall result: "Ferdinand" spoiled the blood, but did not change the overall picture. I didn’t change it on a separate site, and also would not change it on other sites, if there were more of them.
  14. Charlie
    Charlie April 15 2021 13: 58
    0
    But what always, when they write about "Ferdinands", do not forget to mention that they did not "have a machine gun for self-defense"? This is the weak side of the “Ferdinands”. That is why they suffered losses from this infantry, which apparently sought to approach the "Ferdinands" at a grenade throw range. The SU-100 and ISU-152 also lacked machine guns. What influenced their losses?
    1. Aleksandr97
      Aleksandr97 April 15 2021 15: 38
      0
      At the end of 1944, the 152-mm anti-aircraft heavy machine gun DShK began to be installed on the ISU-12,7. Since January 1945, all installations have already been produced with these machine guns.
      Since October 1944, a large-caliber anti-aircraft 122 mm DShK machine gun with a K-12,7T collimator sight on a turret on the right round hatch of the vehicle commander has been installed on the ISU-8. Ammunition for the DShK was 250 rounds.
      For self-defense, the crew had two submachine guns (submachine guns) PPSh or PPS with 1491 rounds of ammunition (21 discs) and 20 F-1 hand grenades.

      In the memoirs of front-line soldiers, self-propelled gunners met that MG-42 was also used for self-defense.
  15. Charlie
    Charlie April 15 2021 20: 38
    0
    Quote: Aleksandr97
    At the end of 1944, the 152-mm anti-aircraft heavy machine gun DShK began to be installed on the ISU-12,7. Since January 1945, all installations have already been produced with these machine guns.
    Since October 1944, a large-caliber anti-aircraft 122 mm DShK machine gun with a K-12,7T collimator sight on a turret on the right round hatch of the vehicle commander has been installed on the ISU-8. Ammunition for the DShK was 250 rounds.
    For self-defense, the crew had two submachine guns (submachine guns) PPSh or PPS with 1491 rounds of ammunition (21 discs) and 20 F-1 hand grenades.

    In the memoirs of front-line soldiers, self-propelled gunners met that MG-42 was also used for self-defense.

    Oh, you are our smartest. Even the number of small arms was indicated in the crew. Anti-aircraft machine guns were provided, but were not always installed on the roof of the wheelhouse. In addition, I spoke not only about the ISU-152, but also about the SU-100
  16. Kirill Petrov_2
    Kirill Petrov_2 April 16 2021 03: 00
    0
    The author, you yourself tried to shoot at 2 km from a modern tank? Watch the tank biathlon, then write about the wonderful penetrations of 2-2.5 km. For example, a regiment ML20 (36 guns) fired at a motionless Ferdinand with adjustments from one and a half kilometers - the hit was received on 45 shots!
  17. NF68
    NF68 April 16 2021 16: 28
    0
    Her weight is too heavy. The lack of a rotating turret is also a serious drawback.
  18. nmaxxen
    nmaxxen 6 August 2021 15: 05
    +3
    Given the flexibility of the electric transmission, it could be made articulated.
    Would improve cross-country ability, portability and repair and upgrade possibilities.