"The decision has been made": Russia will build its own orbital station

Russia will build its own space station, the construction project was approved by Russian President Vladimir Putin. This is reported by the Russian media.

The head of the Russian state on Monday, April 12, held a closed meeting on the development of the space industry. As a result, a decision was made to build a Russian orbital space station, which will replace the Russian segment on the ISS.

The details of the planned construction have not been disclosed, it is assumed that it will begin in the near future in order to prevent a long break between the mothballing of the Russian segment on the ISS and the launch of the new station. Mothballing is scheduled to begin in 2025.

Let us recall that in November last year, RSC Energia, which is the operator of the Russian segment of the International Space Station, proposed abandoning further participation in the ISS program and focusing on the creation of a Russian space station. It was noted that the further operation of the ISS will lead to huge expenses for maintaining the technical condition due to the deterioration of the modules.

According to RKK's plans, the new Russian space station (ROS) will consist of three to seven interchangeable modules. The station will be autonomous, built with an open architecture and an unlimited service life. According to RSC Energia's plans, commissioning of the station should begin after 2024.

Earlier, Roskosmos said that the ISS will expire in 2024, but Russia intends to agree on its extension until 2030. According to Roskosmos plans, the Nauka modules, nodal and scientific-energy modules should go to the ISS. Retrofitting the Russian segment of the ISS with these modules within three years will make it completely independent from the rest of the station, which may lead to the creation of a new orbital station on its basis.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

Well, that's great! Figs with them, the Moon and Mars, we must do what we can.

[Egoza]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Well, cool

I support! And here Ukraine will not adhere. And then they took fashion, and Ze does not take insolence!

“Without undue modesty, I will say that without Ukraine it would have been impossible,” said the head of “Independent”.
“Ukrainian designers played a key role in the implementation of the Soviet space program. Scientists have added to the fundamental calculations the belief that it is possible to reach the stars. And they succeeded, "Zelensky continued.

Source: https://rusvesna.su/news/1618251269

[Ilya-spb]

Cheers, comrades!

I also propose dispossessing, for example, Abramovich. To finance construction.

[novel66]

not him alone, it is necessary that others would not be offended

[bayard]

Projects ... projectors ... The "Science" module still won't fly. And as soon as it flies, then soon the ISS will be closed ... at least its own segment, which is bursting all over ... And there is also the Moon, Mars, "Nuclon" with flights "to the stars" ... Speaking of Nuclon lately they have been silent ... the stone flower does not come out ...
There is no clear strategy.
One PR from a journalist.
If you start your own station, then it will devour the rest with its budget ... And there is no one to cooperate with.
With China on the Moon?
It will come out in the same way as with the Su-27 - they will use it and throw it.
It is necessary to do real business - to develop / deploy a group of military satellites, communication and navigation satellites.
And to revive the Union ... even under the brand name "Eurasian Union". Then let's pull. And there will be cooperation.

[hrych]

Quote: bayard

... the stone flower does not come out ...

Prancing on a porcelain pony in the morning What else do you need new? A prototype Nuclon three times smaller for orbital tests has been assembled, will be placed and assembled there.

Quote: bayard

There is no clear strategy.

You personally, not the State. You were told that Putin has decided on a separate station, what other strategy is needed. Who threw whom with the Su-27? They buy our outdated engines in large quantities for their prototype. This is bad? Firstly, its own station is not connected with the PRC or the EU, and the budget does not concern you. We needed the ISS, after the devastation of the EBN, and now the Russian Federation is self-sufficient. During the period of operation, the Space Shuttle program completely failed. Rather, she died. Well, don't you lament about this? By the age of 24, the Americans are making their own manned spacecraft and the truck has been made before. What are the problems, now every man for himself. Although they look with horror at the moment of the divorce. We are confident. The constellation of military satellites of the Russian Federation has exceeded 140 units. Few?

Quote: bayard

And the cooperation will

With whom? Who has anything useful for us? The main guarantee of the success of modern Russia is in the absence of parasites and ballast.

Quote: bayard

One PR from a journalist.

For those who don’t know, I’ll tell you the greatest achievement that has passed over the ears of some. The Russian Federation has mastered ultra-short docking according to the so-called two-turn scheme. Two years ago, cargo vehicles began to be sent under this scheme, and the other day, for the first time, pilots were sent under this scheme. It took only three hours from start to docking. I consider it useless for such commentators to read a lecture about the benefits of this achievement. The Americans with their super-duper manned spacecraft flew to the ISS in ... 27 and a half hours. Feel the difference, as they say. By the way, it is not posted, but there was an emergency situation and the American-Japanese crew was close to death. The last cargo ship Dragon reached the station in almost forty hours. Now go on, explain with your slogans that the crew and trucks do not need to fly to the station in three hours. More type day is better

[bayard]

"Hurray, hurray, we won all!"
Good plans are good when they come true. When they correspond to real needs and real possibilities.

Quote: hrych

Prancing on a porcelain pony in the morning

No, it looks like your stallion.

Quote: hrych

A prototype Nuclon three times smaller for orbital tests has been assembled, will be placed and assembled there.

Well, if it is assembled. It's good if they bring it out and try it out. It's good if he confirms the stated characteristics. As he confirms, then we will rejoice. In the meantime, problems have arisen there, not even so much of a technical as of a conceptual nature ... But it's good if everything works out.

Quote: hrych

Putin has decided on a separate station, what kind of strategy is still needed.

It's also good . Just what to do at this station? We need programs that will justify its existence. Long term. And it's good if they are.

Quote: hrych

Who threw whom with the Su-27?

Don't you remember the textbook events?
And they buy engines. Here the Chinese flower will not bloom in any way. Reluctantly (out of pride), but they buy.

Quote: hrych

During the period of operation, the Space Shuttle program completely failed. Rather, she died. Well, don't you lament about this?

The Shuttle program was stillborn - a project of the late 60s, which was going to remove satellites from orbit for repair, large, expensive and heavy ... And they suddenly fell in price, decreased in size and increased resource / reliability, and it became cheaper to launch new ones. They even when the "Challenger" threw their own on display (there was no crew in it), they planned to close the program, but ... the Soviet "Buran" and the rocket "Energia" appeared, and for the sake of prestige the program was extended.
And then they closed it after another disaster.
And why should I grieve about her?
It was really a pity for "Buran" - I took part in ensuring its landing.

Quote: hrych

By the age of 24, the Americans are making their own manned spacecraft and the truck has been made before.

Perhaps they will, otherwise it is humiliating for the "lights" in the "Unions" to buy places.

Quote: hrych

Although they look with horror at the moment of the divorce.

That's for sure - what could be more reliable than a ship with a half-century history?

Quote: hrych

We are confident

Our ships will stay with us, we will ride tourists.

Quote: hrych

The constellation of military satellites of the Russian Federation has exceeded 140 units. Few?

As far as I know, those that are needed are either not enough or are not yet available.
I'm talking about them.

Quote: hrych

Who has anything useful for us?

Europe and the United States have something useful, but they will not sell it to us.
China also has it, twists its nose, but sells something.
Others have money and requests ... but recently they prefer not to satisfy them (requests) with us or with us. There were bitter disappointments and the loss of satellites and even interplanetary stations.
A more correct question is: "What we don't have?" for the development of astronautics.
And the answer is simple - an electronic component base of the "military-space" class. There is either none at all, or almost none. As well as the radio component base as a whole ... Chubais did not help ... But he had (and apparently does) "A lot of money."

Quote: hrych

The main guarantee of the success of modern Russia is in the absence of parasites and ballast.

So they got rid of the former Ukraine, like ballast, and immediately felt better with aircraft and ship engines, in nuclear engineering, in rocket and space technology ... "Sarmat" flew long ago and was put into service ... "Sea Launch" regularly launches Zenits with domestic and commercial satellites ... An-70, on which so much money and effort was spent, dozens of them go to combat units of the VTA ... Be-200 and Mi-26 are mass-produced and shipped to customers ... And production helicopters as a whole did not drop twice due to the lack of engines and the "wise leadership of Serdyukov" ... Both Odessa ports and transit (everything, including gas) - everything works better than before ...
And that's just one piece of "poop" that has fallen off.
The Russian Federation, unfortunately, is not a self-sufficient state ... in many ways.
And including - in astronautics.
Even in the days of the Union, we involved the countries of the Socialist camp and not only in cooperation in this area.
Only then we had up to 120 launches per year.
And about the same number of landings. True, most of the landings were with tape cassettes from reconnaissance satellites. But this was also an indicator.

Quote: hrych

For those who don’t know, I’ll tell you the greatest achievement that has passed over the ears of some. The Russian Federation has mastered ultra-short docking according to the so-called two-turn scheme.

Yes, they really did. We have been working on it for a long time, carrying out calculations and experiments. And this is a great achievement of our mathematicians, programmers and engineers.

Quote: hrych

The Americans with their super-duper manned spacecraft flew to the ISS in ... 27 and a half hours. Feel the difference, as they say. By the way, it is not posted, but there was an emergency situation and the American-Japanese crew was close to death. The last cargo ship Dragon reached the station in almost forty hours. Now go on, explain with your slogans that the crew and trucks do not need to fly to the station in three hours. More type day is better

The Americans are only teaching their ships to fly, they are not yet up to two-orbit docks. Someday they will be able to.
But the Chinese ... these are really preparing for a lot.
And they have a program.

[hrych]

Much bullshit written For example about Ukraine. Sarmat is being completed while the Voivode is on alert. The Yuzhnoye Design Bureau did not make engines for the Voevoda, and the analog Soviet systems were hopelessly outdated. Sea launch was commercial and joint with enemies. Here I am not interested in commerce, combat stations are closer to me. Although it was cleaned up and our rocket will fly from it. The shuttle is the greatest achievement, ahead of its time. Rested on unsolvable problems at the moment. So it was necessary to calculate earlier, and not to end up at a broken trough. And he was the only successful and visible link in SDI. All SDI without the Shuttle went downhill. Now they are critically behind us. The topic is separate from our compact YSU, which will provide our combat stations with movement and combat emitters. The union is outwardly the same, but why change perfection. But there was a complete transition to digital, and this has achieved a qualitative leap.

Quote: bayard

Americans only teach their ships to fly

Think about your words. And these are the ones that supposedly left behind on the moon Moreover, they allegedly drove there on a rover, like bikers

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

Much nonsense has been written For example about Ukraine.

So refute.

Quote: hrych

Sarmat is being completed

And when were you going to have it in service?
Several months ago they promised to adopt by the end of this year
Without a single launch. You have to promise something.
But this year they are going to launch ... The first test one. There the PU is not ready yet.

Quote: hrych

Design Bureau Yuzhnoye just did not make engines for the Voevoda,

No engines were made. Made a rocket. And served. And the shelf life was extended.
After all, "Sarmat" is the same "Voevoda" \ R-36 in the next modification. The engine is the same. Dimensions and launch weight are the same. Payload ... they wrote a little more - empirical 10 tons versus 8,8 tons.
We would have solved the issue in 2014, we would have already been armed with the Sarmat.
Ruslans, Be-200, Mi-26 in serial production.
There would be no restrictions on the production of helicopters.
Something imported?
And what about the missed deadlines for the delivery of icebreakers?
Only one in the ranks, but they would have already had the entire series.
And what about ship / ship engines?
We would have already had the full 22350 series in service.
And for a long time already the entire series of Black Sea 11356.
Now of course production has begun.
But the pace?
So far, the maximum is 1 (one) power plant per year.
And their quality?
Alas, it is not yet known. Not a single ship has tested it on the move.
So this is for a few more years of buildup and elimination of shortcomings.
And already the eighth year has gone ... missed opportunities.
And sanctions.
They would have happened anyway, but the fact of the matter is that there would be no REASON for them.
And why?
But because the Kremlin bourgeoisie agreed with the Kiev.

Quote: hrych

The shuttle is the greatest achievement

As a work of engineering art - certainly.
But he hasn't justified his existence with anything ... other than potentially putting weapons into orbit and returning them back. As well as our "Buran".

Quote: hrych

The topic is separate from our compact YSU, which will provide our combat stations with movement and combat emitters.

If you get a megawatt-class energy source, yes.
But combat emitters are weapons, and they are still prohibited in space.
The United States has not yet withdrawn from this treaty.
And ours will not be the first.

Quote: hrych

Quote: bayard
Americans only teach their ships to fly

Think about your words. And these are the ones that allegedly left on the moon.Not only, they drove there supposedly on a rover, like bikers

You yourself have just called the "Shuttle" the greatest creation ... Yes, you have not flown for a long time, you have connected private traders, they study, try, and bring it up. But they will bring it - they just need it.
And they are afraid to be left without our "Unions", and therefore they reserve places.
And they were not on the moon - I wrote about this more than once. And I found out about it back in 1985.
And about the former Ukraine - not nonsense. In 2014, 70 - 75% were for an alliance with Russia, and after the coup they were ready to join. And Ukraine was not poor or unlucky then. And at that time (and even now) she still has a lot of interesting things for the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation and not only, otherwise at the end of 2013 a delegation of 200 people would not have descended on Ukrainian enterprises. Contracts and investment programs were already offered for $ 50 billion.
And then everything was let go.
True, we managed to do it with the Crimea.

[hrych]

Firstly, Ukraine has always been blackmailing Russia and society has always been split into two main camps. And it's a matter of time when this country would collapse. On the contrary, the Russian Federation artificially kept it afloat, and now the EU is doing it (the Russian Federation continues to support the LPNR and the Crimea has taken over). The culmination was the extension of the lease of the Black Sea Fleet, signed by Yanukovych and, accordingly, the West attacked without waiting for the elections in a few months. But at the same time, the "pro-Russian" Yanukovych financed the Takhrirites and Banderaites. At the same time, the "pro-Russian" continued to build a NATO base in Crimea. We only cut off Crimea and supported the Donbass that had risen. Initially, Donbass was not planned to be rejected as the most powerful pro-Russian group of citizens for political battles. Unfortunately, the enemy calculated this and simply attacked the Donbass in order to clean up the pro-Russian community in Ukraine. Buran is a mistake and monkeyism. The answer to a new round of the arms race in the form of SDI. One launch was enough for us to understand the stupidity, but they needed to lose half of the ships and a bunch of pilots to get it. GoMS began to surrender the Block due to its unwillingness to get involved in SDI, for the USSR was overstrained economically. The West plundered the whole world, and the USSR fed the whole world, and in the USSR itself, the RSFSR fed everyone and our people overstrained morally and physically to feed the Darmaids. The production of engines had to be transferred to the Russian Federation, and the longer this "pro-Russian" Ukraine sat on our neck, the further this issue would be postponed. Now everything is already normalizing, yes, the imports from the EU were not allowed to be blocked, which is good again. This is not fatal. Now, at the end of the seven-year plan, we are not broken. In fact, the Ukrainian factor is the only trump card of the West versus the Russian Federation, and the West is split in this matter. Glaciation is coming and the gas issue is a matter of world domination. Therefore, it is impossible to do more than we have done. Previously, there was no strength to destroy and occupy Ukraine. The army was not re-equipped and rebuilt. Therefore, they tried to keep these "pro-Russian" economically up to a natural result.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

First, Ukraine has always been blackmailing Russia

Belarus?
Armenia?
Not ?
But Lukashenka insisted on writing off debts - "for loyalty." And to continue paying for it is loyalty, he insisted. Now it has calmed down.
For that Ukraine, with all my skepticism, I don’t remember anything like that.

Quote: hrych

and society has always been split into two main camps.

Did you look at the voting results?
So in politicians, half has always been behind the regions + communists, sometimes socialists ... And the other half is a motley collection of any motley difference that the oligarchs collected into a bloc.
And very many did not vote at all - there was no political force for which a Russian would like to vote.
And there was no "Russian-pro-Russian" party, not a single one. And those that tried to appear - were dispersed, ransacked offices, imprisoned. Regionals are no less than others. And the Russian Federation never supported the pro-Russian forces, even morally, so the Russian people on the Russian land were outcasts without representation.
But the oligarchs of the Russian Federation and Krajina-U lived in perfect harmony. And all questions were resolved only through them.
But opinion polls on NATO membership have already shown the balance of power, which was confirmed later - during the civil confrontation in Ukrainian cities after the coup. 75% are for an alliance with Russia and against NATO.
And on the streets of cities there were always 3-4 times more Russian activists than Maidan activists, despite the fact that the latter were paid for each exit and action. But for the Russians, no.
But the Enemy was very well organized and prepared, and the Russian people did not even have leaders ... they appeared in the course of the confrontation itself. Therefore, no one knew them.
And the RF was passively watching.
Not Russia.
For the Russian Federation is not Russia, but only its stub, albeit the largest.
You certainly disagree. Well, listen to your president, who has said many times that practically one nation lives in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. And that the existence of three states for one People is the greatest tragedy.
Do you also disagree?
Well, show at least loyalty to the current president of the Russian Federation.
And for me there has never been such a state as Ukraine - there were just different occupation zones of the formerly united Russian State.
And those Russian people who came to us from Russia and other states (in fact, from all over the world) to help in the fight against fascism, also thought so. And they do.
You are NO.

Quote: hrych

Previously, there was no strength to destroy and occupy Ukraine.

This is your whole attitude towards the Russian Land and the Russian people living on it.
Did your ancestors also treat the Russian people in the territory occupied by the Germans?
If Russia had made the right decision in the spring of 2014 and reacted quickly, there would have been no resistance at all - the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and most of the SBU officers themselves would have caught all the terrorists who carried out the coup.
And they would have raised Russian flags.
We also had flags prepared.
Nobody would have to "conquer" and "occupy". Russia was expected as a Liberator ... Everyone was really inspired by the Crimea. And the uprising in the South-East was raised in order to draw off the forces of the enemy and give the Crimea a vote! Expecting that it will continue to be the same everywhere.
But no.
In Crimea, it was not the Russian people who were taken under protection. A peninsula was needed.
And people were only a means - a tool.
For when the people of the entire Southeast rose ... the Kremlin was purple.
When people began to die in Donbass under bombs and bullets ... Only volunteers came.
And at that time in the Russian Federation there was a legitimate president of this unfortunate country - part of the Russian World ... He asked for help - in public. And in writing.
And at the same time he called fascism fascism.
You don't like him. And I didn't like it. Like many in Ukraine. But to be honest, no one can argue that his presidency (and premiership) were the most successful and calm periods of this state. The highest economic growth (especially during the first premiership), without "oil, gas and aluminum". At the expense of industry, small and medium-sized businesses. At a rate twice as high as at the same time in Russia.
And no one was sitting on the neck. There was normal industrial cooperation.
It's just that some of the factories were originally only in Ukraine, and some survived only in Ukraine.
And of course, starting such a serious rearmament program, it was necessary to duplicate such production in Russia even then - starting in 2009. But the Kremlin was counting on Ukraine's membership in the Customs and Eurasian Union.
Not fused.

Quote: hrych

Glaciation is coming and the gas issue is a matter of world domination.

And that is why Russia is SO investing in the Northern Sea Route ...
They probably haven’t heard about glaciation there?

Quote: hrych

Initially, Donbass was not planned to be rejected as the most powerful pro-Russian group of citizens for political battles.

Yes, the political strategists have worked ... all the toys in the "political battalion" ... have they played enough?
Or have they played out?
During spring ... and even until mid-summer everything could be done quickly, clearly and beautifully ... with minimal losses in everything.
But from September 1 it became late - the enemy began mining the hydraulic structures of the Dnieper Cascade. And he was the first to mine the DneproHES dam.
On the morning of September 1st. 2014
And everything became much more complicated.

Quote: hrych

The army was not re-equipped and rebuilt.

Only a few regiments were needed. And in a short time they would have acquired a volunteer Army of several hundred thousand Russian (and not only) people.
There would be no resistance.
From mere rumors that Russia was already on its way, all this bandeva, lifting up his pants, rushed to Galicia. I know one "maidan centurion" who has run like this with his family at least four (!) Times over the summer. From mere rumors.
Remember how they made Mariupol empty?
That would be everywhere.
And Donbass (specifically Donetsk) held on to the first stage not so much at the expense of its internal forces, but at the expense of Russian people who came there from all over Ukraine. People needed an assemblage point. And at the expense of these people Donetsk (and Lugansk) survived. They simply did not go home for the night, but spent the night on the spot.
It was because of those who dispersed for the night that the most powerful movement in the Ukraine in Kharkov was defeated. But there were more of them, and they were better organized ... How many times did they beat the banderva who had come in large numbers on the streets of their city, but ... after dispersed for the night and leaving several dozen people ... they were captured by nonresident special forces under the command of Avakov.
You have too flat and shallow understanding of the situation in general.
And those events in particular.

[hrych]

Luhansk and Donetsk rebelled, went to the tanks almost with bare hands, but Kiev did not rebel, Kharkov did not rebel. Bandera organized? And why did their adversary turn out to be disorganized? Why darling was not enough to resist them? Were they waiting for the Russian troops to do everything? Graces from others, but not yourself? Why was there not a single patriot general in the Armed Forces of Ukraine? Kovpak was not found. Nalivaiko was not found. No, sausages and cowards. Submitted and resigned. Now this majority in the Armed Forces will be called upon and they will shoot at the Russians. And in front of the gallows, they say, they forced ... For some reason, the Donetsk residents were not forced, and Russia was forced to help, but now it gave citizenship and drove the army for protection. That's the whole difference.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

Luhansk with Donetsk rebelled

No, the whole Southeast rebelled first.
The same Russian Spring. And there were many times more people on the streets and squares for an alliance with Russia than there were paid Maidan activists. Before the coup, they (Maidanites) were generally marginalized and no one took them seriously. But they were given weapons and indulgence to kill.
The people were not ready for this.
There is a moral and psychological barrier through which it is very difficult for an ordinary person to cross - to start killing their own kind.
The Banderas did not have this threshold, and besides, they were all under combat psychotropics and they sat down on them very strongly on the Maidan itself - the very "Maidan chayok". All narcology immediately after the coups were overcrowded by these migrant workers ... like heavy drug addicts. They went to the Maidan just as to earn money - they paid well there. But these psychotropics really work "miracles" - they make super-aggressive bloodthirsty animals out of people.
But already in the war it is rather a minus - then all the fields near Slavyansk were fertilized with these zombies. Their limbs were torn off with bullets, and they rested with bones and walked ... After all, at first ours were shooting at the limbs ... and to kill these, it was only necessary to kill them in the head.
But ordinary people did not immediately grab their weapons - they did not immediately realize what had happened. In Ukraine before - every election, then a coup. And between the elections, there were a couple of coups for the majority in parliament and the right to premiership ... And all these rallies and brawls were either staged, or bore the character of power fights. It didn’t concern people and people didn’t pay attention to it. So at first this was mistaken for a circus ... And they thought that everything would settle down as usual.
We went out to political actions ... and people began to disappear. Dnipropetrovsk was crushed first.
Then the city with the strongest and most numerous Russian movement - Kharkov. where before that Bandera had already been beaten several times - with fists, sticks (when they had sticks), it came to knives and injuries ... And then at night an alien special forces arrived, seized people in the regional administration (there were not many of them left for the night), and the rest began to take home.
Those who succeeded fled to Donetsk, where they later fought against fascism with weapons in their hands.
And so, in turn, in all cities, Bandera gathered into a fist all the forces from all over Ukraine and, having pulled them into one city, smashed city after city.
At first they were rebuffed - in Odessa, Kharkov, Zaporozhye.
And then the games of fistfights and sticks ended, and people began to simply kill.
May 2 - in Odessa.
May 9 - in Mariupol, where the Azovs were running around the city in an BMP-2 and shooting people (people captured and burned one BMP). But first, these scum were shot from cannons (automatic on infantry fighting vehicles) and grenade launchers of the building of the city police department ... There, only on the first floor, at least 50 corpses were left to lie. , captured, shot and finished off almost everyone, took a few with them.
The militiamen were fighting.
But the fight was unequal.
And on May 11, there was a referendum in Donetsk and Lugansk regions. And the queues for that referendum were kilometers long. In all settlements of the regions.
In Krasnoarmeisk, "Aydar" punishers broke into a polling station (the majority had already voted and the bulletins had already been taken out, and opened fire on people who had begun to gather to drive them out of the city.
And they kicked out.
Unarmed.
And on May 5, the first battle took place near Slavyansk. where "Alpha" from Sumy and a number of other cities (SBU), as well as "Omega" I don’t remember where (the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs - liquidators) entered the first battle with the militia.
The URB commander went to negotiate with them, and they opened fire on him and mortally wounded him. A battle ensued, and the militia, armed with anything at all (the coolest weapon was the Saiga), destroyed almost the entire Sumy Alpha (causing an explosion of a propane cylinder at a gas station) and put the rest to flight ...
This was the first real battle of this war.
And the assembly point was not Donetsk at all (although many gathered there ... but unarmed), and not Luhansk (where they managed to seize the SBU arsenal), but Slavyansk.
And it was thanks to Slavyansk that both Donetsk and Lugansk republics took place.
And just don't need slogans like:

Quote: hrych

Bandera organized? And why did their adversary turn out to be disorganized? Why darling was not enough to resist them?

So something, but people had enough spirit.
There was no weapon. And it took time to get it ... Militia machine guns (many militiamen went to fight), submachine guns and pistols for the protection of zones (there are as many as 8 of them around Donetsk), weapons stores ... then they began to disarm army units sent on a punitive mission ... And a lot of soldiers also joined the militia ...
And until that time, until people received weapons ... What do you want from them?
If the Maidan hundreds immediately after the coup were armed, equipped and named the National Guard?
But we managed to arm ourselves.
Slavyansk gave such an opportunity.
While holding on.
And after leaving the encirclement, it was the "Slavs" who became the basis of the first truly combat-ready units.
By that time, they had already started and bombed the whole city. From the air.
Using bombs up to 1500 kg.
In one granny, instead of a vegetable garden, one continuous funnel formed.

Quote: hrych

Why was there not a single patriot general in the Armed Forces of Ukraine?

Such people have not been kept there for a long time.

Quote: hrych

Kovpak was not found. Nalivaiko was not found.

But these were in abundance.
Did not hear?
And they already have monuments ...

Quote: hrych

... No, sausages and cowards.

They managed to receive weapons only in Donbass, and even then with a delay. In the rest of Ukraine, we banned any performances, because it is too late - they will ruin themselves, we will not have time to help.
But people were waiting.
And if then - at the beginning of September we were not stopped, then in every city, town, village, our units would be overgrown with fresh replenishment. And the further - the more. One Mariupol could give up to a couple of brigades in a short time.
Well, people could not leave their families in the territory captured by the enemy and go to fight with us - what would become of their families ... They were simply burned together with their houses. I know specific cases.
And who would feed their families?
After all, our fighters did not receive anything at all for a very long time.

Quote: hrych

Donetsk residents were not forced for some reason and Russia was forced to help,

Exactly what - forced.

Quote: hrych

and now I have given citizenship

If you knew with what ordeals this is all done ... especially at first. For a long time we could provide everyone with passports (from the moment the issuance began), but ... miracles are happening. Although these are rather local problems. but that doesn't make it easier for people.

Quote: hrych

and drove an army in for protection.

The 8th Army is standing behind us on a permanent basis.

[hrych]

So I say that there are no complaints about Donbass. I have complaints about the three-millionth Kiev and the millionth Odessa. When they burned them in Odessa, why did no one come to save them. Why didn't people come out?

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

I have complaints about three million Kiev

In Kiev, since December 1, street battles between the Banderva and the police have been going on. Our boys from the PPS and "Berkut" held out there all winter - collapsed from fatigue, slept on shields. And they were burned with Molotov cocktails, beaten with heavy chains, sticks, baseball bats. Antimaydan volunteers pulled up to help them - they gathered through the "Combat Brotherhood" and other organizations. And they fought together with the police.
And then weapons were brought to the Maidan.
After their unsuccessful capture of the Verkhovna Rada.
And on the morning of February 20, they opened fire to kill.
On unarmed boys from the PPS in the cordon. And in his own way too.
Most surprisingly, I saw it (some of the shooters) live while firing - a desperate streamer lined up behind them and was just there as they fired. The names of the killers were then identified from these frames.
And then they gave out weapons to the police ...
Yanukovych called Putin, asked for advice - "what to do" in such a situation ... foreign ambassadors followed him with their tails, like dogs grabbing a bear by the thighs ... demanded not to open fire, disarm and withdraw from the city all police troops and special forces of the SBU ...
And do you know what BB suggested to him?
"Take it out!" ... "The ambassadors will give you a guarantee. Sign an agreement with the bandits in their presence and dismiss the soldiers to the barracks."
The ambassadors promised that the bandits would leave the streets, but the law enforcement officers must leave first.
Otherwise, they threatened with a Civil War.
And he listened to the advice of the President of the Russian Federation.
What he was later accused of.
And BB later said that Obama ... deceived him. He persuaded to force Yanukovych to surrender - to agree to an agreement, and he guarantees that he will remove the terrorists from the streets.
And as soon as the soldiers were put on buses and began to taxi out of the city ... hordes of robbers, rapists and murderers poured into the city. They attacked the buses of already unarmed policemen ... And several of these buses with the Crimean Anti-Maidan were intercepted on the way, people were beaten, many were killed ... some of the buses were burned ...
I saw those guys - policemen who escaped from the captured Kiev.
Kiev was the first to fight.
And the first to fall.
And yet - until 1992 Kiev was almost an EXCLUSIVELY Russian city. Who lived there, or been there - will confirm.

Quote: hrych

When they burned them in Odessa, why did no one come to save them.

What do you even know about this?
Have you seen WHAT battles were on the streets of Odessa before (!) When the bandits ended up near the House of Trade Unions? In the same place, uniform carnages were going on, cobblestones flew ... like snow during a storm.
Then, under the pretext of a football match, football fans (the fighting assets of the Maidan) and other militants from ALL OVER Ukraine were brought to Odessa.
Their stupidly turned out to be MUCH more. Although the Odesa counted on this time to pile on the newcomers (they had already more than once lowered them from the Potemkin stairs and expelled them from the city in disgrace) ... but this time the forces were too unequal. And the bandits, being under psychotropic drugs, in their atrocity were not restrained at all in nothing. When the defenders of Odessa were divided into several groups, one of them decided to retreat to the Kulikovo Field, where there was an Anti-Maidan tent camp (with leaflets, brochures, symbols) ... and there were women and old people ... And they decided to go under the protection of the walls buildings ... where they were burned.
Have you seen HOW it was?
And Parubiy personally supervised this massacre.

Who could have come to the aid of the UNAIRMANED people? If they were killed by a gang of thugs that seized power?
And they sent ... new chiefs to the militiamen. And it was because of this "new chief" that the massacre took place in Mariupol on May 9.
Look on YouTube, on the Internet - there are many who filmed this carnage. And these shots were well known.
And we have fought (and are fighting) immigrants from Kiev, and from Odessa, and from Zaporozhye (remember those "300 Cossacks"? Usually there were many more of them, but on that day there were not many people in general ... locusts.
After that event, all these men came to us (in Donetsk and Lugansk) ... and many have already died in the battles.

... but of course the "sausages" are to blame ...
Have you, Colonel, at least once a bullet whistled at your temple?
When is it out?
When is a sniper from afar, and the bullet already vibrates and emits a characteristic sound?
Can you tell the difference between a mine or a projectile burst by sound?
Have you seen how the complete Grad packages for urban development arrive?
So as not to go to the movies?
And even our children have seen it, and they will distinguish it by ear.

... but here, of course, there are only sausages ...

Russia is not where it is written on the index, but where people stand to death for the Russian name, the Russian land and the Russian language.
And do not care a passport when we have people from the USA, and from Germany, Spain, Latin America, Africa (! Even) ...
I have one good friend - Benes Ayo ... Our "Black Lenin" ... here he is - a real Russian man, although his father is from Uganda, he studied in England and even became a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain ... there is ... and his mother is Russian ... but from Latvia ...

And the next time you want to say something about the events of 7 (and more) years ago, remember who persuaded Yanukovych not to use force and withdraw troops from Kiev at a critical moment.
Is it any wonder that later seeking help ... was simply UNSIGNED.

But now you can set as many minuses as you like.

[hrych]

I repeat, I have claims not to patriots and heroes, but to a large, gray mass of million-strong cities that did not come out against the punishers, whom several thousand aggressive degenerates were able to subdue. Why 50 people were killed in Odessa and 250 were injured, including women and old people, but even thousands of men were not found in a city with a million people capable of fighting. There were no two or three people with shotguns who would have fired at the arsonists and killed at least the same 50 enemy people. So this is a bunch of football degenerates with Molotov bottles and sticks, weapons were at the unit, but the Germans would come with tanks. Therefore, if the German took Russian cities, then with desperate resistance. Donbass and Crimea fiercely resisted, although they fell. And how did Peter and Tsaritsin defend themselves? Even during the occupation, there is partisanism and resistance. And Kiev and Odessa always immediately raised their paws up and there was no partisan, under the Romanians they traded, etc. Therefore, a synonym for Odessa is a huckster. That's the whole homespun truth of life. In Sevastopol, not 300 Cossacks came out, but 30 thousand to the Nakhimov Square. If in Kiev and Odessa there were 3 thousand men each, these Bandera degenerates would be torn apart. Not. But the gay pride parade in Kiev collects 5 thousand.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

I have claims not to patriots and heroes, but to a large, gray mass of million cities that did not come out against the punishers

Certainly not released?
Once again - we recall the beginning of the Russian Spring, watch archival video materials, READ. Not thousands came out there. In the same Kharkov, tens of thousands came out. In other big cities, 3 - 5 - 10 thousand people came out at a time. And do not forget that NORMAL people WORK during the day.
And do not wander around the streets.
And Banderva and football fans in the same Odessa were not

Quote: hrych

several thousand aggressive degenerates

, and from 10 to 000 in one column. And this was not all, because for several days they were imported and placed in the vicinity and on the outskirts of the city.
And no one was expecting them that day.
And the cry in Odessa passed when they appeared, and the guys rushed out of habit to "extinguish the bandervu" ... but only there were fewer of them. At least an order of magnitude.
And the bandits walked with hammers and crowbars, walking around breaking the paving stones into "cubes" very convenient for throwing. And I would have seen what kind of hero you are under a hail of such stones (about a kilogram each), when hundreds of them fly in one volley.
Chronicle look what kind of battles were on the streets!

Quote: hrych

not even a thousand men were found

Several thousand were found. They only acted in several groups - they did not have time to assemble and build, they just reacted to the threat.
And the new Kiev government paralyzed the police. At first she was kept in the barracks, and then she led them into a cordon (external), when people were already being burned.
And according to conversations, the rebuff on the streets (up to Kulikov Pole) was organized, among other things, by the former head of the Odessa police ... who later left the country.

Quote: hrych

50 people were killed and 250 injured in Odessa,

More suffered there. Yes, and killed more, if you count them all.
The city was captured.
Not by a "handful of marginalized", but by the new Kiev government by the forces of mobilized bandits from all over Ukraine, with the maximum use of administrative resources and under the supervision of Western special services.
It was a very well planned action.
And people just reacted to what was happening ... many did not even know what was happening in the city and went about their business. It was an ordinary day, no one warned about the upcoming events.

Quote: hrych

There were no two or three people with shotguns

Found, and not a couple. I would just look at the "hero" who came out with a shotgun against a crowd of 10 or more. They also had weapons ... The first time Bandera fired at the police on February 000, during the assault on the Verkhovna Rada. Even then, there were dozens of wounded and killed. But then they were broken. They drove through the streets of Kiev back to the Maidan, where they hid behind the set on fire barricades. And all night they covered themselves with burning barricades ... And there was nothing to demolish them. tried to ram it with APCs, but the APCs were burned with Molotov cocktails ... I spoke with the commander of those APCs later.
And by morning they brought weapons to the Maidan.
And yet - in Ukraine since December-January, foreign PMCs and special forces with a total number of 5 or more have been operating ... It was a special operation of a whole coalition of external enemies and an internal betrayal of the Ukrainian oligarchy and generals. Especially the army ... these have been cultivated since the early 90s.
If tomorrow the Moscow authorities give weapons to guest workers and order them to kill Muscovites ... And the police will order to protect these bandits from the retaliatory actions of city residents ... how many Muscovites will gather in brigades and divisions for an organized and cohesive resistance?
If there are hundreds of thousands of bandits or even a million or two?
How many residents of the city of Moscow gathered for a "civilian", proactive rebuff to the coup attempt on Bolotnaya Square?
Were there EVERYTHING like that?
And this despite the fact that the power in the Kremlin did not fall then, and the police went about their business ...
Huh?
Why didn't the militia, or Antiboloto, have gathered?
And in Kiev, Antimaydan fought next to the police, making plywood shields for himself and picking up sticks (Banderas were so armed, and they even wore steel armor under their clothes ... they did not react to rubber sticks at all) ... and by joint efforts drove them around Kiev, driving them back to the Maidan.

If tomorrow the GDP says “I’m tired. I’m leaving” and the country starts the same ... do you think Muscovites and St. Petersburg residents will rise up with arms against the usurpers?

Quote: hrych

, I have a complaint

We look carefully at our log, for the neighbor's bitch is obvious to him.

Quote: hrych

In Sevastopol, not 300 Cossacks came out, but 30 thousand to the Nakhimov Square.

In Zaporozhye, the so-called. "pro-Russian get-together", sometimes up to 5-10 thousand. We held meetings, spoke, talked, got acquainted ...
By that time, many already knew each other.
It was just a meeting place of interest.
Not the "designated battle site".
Much fewer people came that day. When the banderva appeared, women, children, the elderly, the infirm, were immediately sent home. Only young strong men remained.
300 people against at least 5 thousand. Without any weapons and means of protection.
Nobody waited for Bandera that day.
And people were just AT WORK.
... In one mining town, in the summer, when the war was going on, a detachment from the "right sector" arrived ... to squeeze out some kind of business like ... well, show off with weapons and equipment ...
The men were all at work.
Their wives attacked the punishers with the words "Send away from our city, now our husbands will rise up their slaughter, and there will be no rags left from you." And they did not manage to intimidate or pretend to be "defenders of the fatherland and fighters against corruption" ... more and more miners' wives gathered ...
And then they received an order over the radio: "Get out of there quickly, we don't need another Slavyansk."
Could the masquerade be able to do this?
And the wives of office plankton?
And in our country old men and women and armored vehicles stopped by their hands.
So far, it has not come to the point of chaos.
And in Sevastopol, historically, there is a sea of ​​sea retirees and their family members. After serving in the north and in the Pacific Fleet, retired officers always sought to settle in retirement in Sevastopol. Plus - the base of the Black Sea Fleet.
There, within an hour, and 50 gathered. The people there are very organized, disciplined and motivated. I was in Sevastopol in the summer of 000, communicated with the participants ... Do you know that they were there for this (leaving Ukraine in the event of a coup) for 2014 years preparing?
Here they were READY.

Quote: hrych

But the gay pride parade in Kiev collects 5 thousand.

In Moscow, this will collect 50, do not hesitate.
With Kirkorov at the head ... in feathers.

[hrych]

I didn’t read any further, I got to the point that I had to go to work and couldn’t stand it. Thieves seize you, yours are burned, but you think about work. And so then they will work for the Germans, for the Romanians. Ostarbeiters collect weapons of the Reich in factories, with which they will beat their own. They will be called to the club, but what, too, work ...

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

I didn't read any further,

In vain.
Maybe then I would have remembered how many divisions of the people's militia were assembled by Moscow under the banners of "Antibolot".
Or in 1993, how much rose to fight the usurper ...
Did you get up yourself?
Just once?
And we have FORBIDDEN our comrades to raise uprisings in the cities of the captured Ukraine.
Is it clear ?
So as not to ruin the best people in vain.
And who could afford - we fought.

Quote: hrych

I got to the point that I had to go to work and could not stand it.

And I suppose the Holy Spirit feeds your family?
And will look after sick parents?
Look at the log in YOUR eye.
And with our bitches, we somehow figure it out.

[hrych]

In 1993, in Moscow alone, there were several thousand killed, tanks were hitting the White House. The people really gave a fight and fought with the special forces. We found both weapons and courage. The commanders were out of luck. If these people were in Odessa, they would have torn these ultras apart.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

In 1993, in Moscow alone, there were several thousand killed,

It was ...

Quote: hrych

The people really gave a fight and fought with the special forces

Alpha and Vympel did not take part in the assault. They stopped that storm and took out all the deputies whom Yeltsin ordered to destroy every one of them.
I talked with these guys.
And with some former deputies of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR.

Quote: hrych

The commanders were out of luck.

And in Kiev, how.
But even there they fought on the streets for about 3 months.
But VV persuaded Yanukovych ... to surrender.
Persuaded.
At Obama's request.
Admitted this on camera.
And the insurgent people in Moscow had the Supreme Soviet behind them - the only legitimate authority at that moment.
The only legitimate one.
In Ukraine, there was no such body after the coup by agreement.
But the people are fighting to this day.
... and in Moscow then everything was done in 3 days.
And the coup - HAPPENED.
And what are we proud of?
Or did "all of Russia" rise up to fight?
So too - no.
There were pockets of resistance somewhere?
Not .
Log!
We look into the log.
And we know our bitches.

Quote: hrych

If these people were in Odessa, they would have torn these ultras apart.

These people have already grown old by 2014.
But others have grown up.
And they fought.
And they fight.

[72jora72]

And they decided to go under the protection of the walls of the building ... where they were burned.
Have you seen HOW it was?

I talked with the guys from Odessa, participants in those events (many who were able to escape from the city went into the militia), and so, according to their stories, it turned out that the number of those killed in the House of Trade Unions was much more than the official figure (and by the way, many people simply disappeared during the purges and arrests, after the events of May 2).

[bayard]

I also talked with many, and it was.

[Shurik70]

I'm tired of the endless promises of Roscosmos.
All they promise ...
GLONASS, base on the moon, rovers on Mars. If you remember the old promises, all this already should be.
The only indisputable achievement is that our engines are the best in the world. Retained people capable of creating such. A worthy achievement. But the only thing.

[Cosm22]

Controversial achievement.
What's the use that they were created, and they are? What Russian launch vehicles are the RD-170s in? RD-180?
And why did they give way to the weak and simple Merlin Musk?
Soviet engines are not in demand under current conditions. They have good cravings and good AI. But they have a cosmic price, huge dimensions and weight. Therefore, a reusable step cannot be made on their basis.

[72jora72]

The Kremlin was purple.
When people began to die in Donbass under bombs and bullets ... Only volunteers came.

And I remember Putin's words about what will happen if even a drop of Russian blood is shed in Donbass ........... and people still remember. Seven years have passed, and the words are just words ...

[bayard]

And on April 17, 2014, he said that if they (the Kiev authorities) start killing people ... then "we will stand behind them" ... Then they decided that he had chosen the wording unsuccessfully ...
But at the same time he called the usurpers "junta" ...
And there really is the 8th Army behind our back ...

[Non liberoid Russian]

the Russian army is standing on its own land. what questions ? and no one will die for you, sort it out yourself

[Non liberoid Russian]

oh, how, the Lugandons flocked to Russia in herds, and Russian soldiers must protect their lands from ukrov and die ...

[bayard]

Be quiet in a rag, Zhmerynka, soon there will be minced meat from you.
And we are standing in Donetsk.

[Reviews]

Quote: bayard

Their "Challenger" was filled up for the show (there was no crew in it)

It’s good ...

[bayard]

No - the members of its crew are alive, most of NASA works / worked, some under their former name, and some called themselves twin brothers / sisters. There they were already three twins - in the same carriage.
It was a scam, so that there was a plausible excuse to close the program ... But "Buran" appeared on the horizon, and the program was continued.

[Reviews]

Quote: bayard

No - the members of its crew are alive, most of NASA works / worked, some under their former name, and some called themselves twin brothers / sisters. There they were already three twins - in the same carriage.

I tell you: quit drug addiction. Oh, come on ...

[bayard]

A group of German, followed by American researchers of those events, decided to find materials on the deceased astronauts (their files, personal data, etc. for their work), but instead they found these astronauts themselves, who either live under their own surnames, changing only the name, or even not changing the name. And they are doing the same work as before their "death".
This was the beginning of their investigation. And they started digging. It turned out to be a very interesting investigation, with a lot of photographs (already aged, but very recognizable astronauts), documents, screenshots, links.
Someone posted this material here, not as an article, but in a commentary.
I got it about 8 - 10 years ago. Unfortunately, I did not save the link, but if you look carefully, you can find it.
I posted that material on social media ... and I even received thanks.
The material is very interesting.
And the execution (evacuation of the crew before the start) resembles the Lunar swindle.
But with “Columbia” it looks like everything was for real.
Or will you assert that they have been to the moon?
Even "Hrych" will not agree with this.
And as for the "Lunar scam" and I, and it looks like he, we know by no means from the Internet.

But, unfortunately, I cannot give the link now, I have to look. I don't even remember the name of that work.

[Reviews]

Quote: bayard

A group of German, followed by American researchers of those events, decided to find materials on the deceased astronauts (their files, personal data, etc. for their work), but instead they found these astronauts themselves, who either live under their own surnames, changing only the name, or even not changing the name. And they are doing the same work as before their "death".
This was the beginning of their investigation. And they started digging. It turned out to be a very interesting investigation, with a lot of photographs (already aged, but very recognizable astronauts), documents, screenshots, links.
Someone posted this material here, not as an article, but in a commentary.
I got it about 8 - 10 years ago. Unfortunately, I did not save the link, but if you look carefully, you can find it.
I posted that material on social media ... and I even received thanks.
The material is very interesting.
And the execution (evacuation of the crew before the start) resembles the Lunar swindle.
But with “Columbia” it looks like everything was for real.
Or will you assert that they have been to the moon?
Even "Hrych" will not agree with this.
And as for the "Lunar scam" and I, and it looks like he, we know by no means from the Internet.

But, unfortunately, I cannot give the link now, I have to look. I don't even remember the name of that work.

Tie up a drug addict, ...

[Akuzenka]

It was a scam, so that there was a plausible excuse to close the program ... But "Buran" appeared on the horizon, and the program was continued.

I'll tell you more, the Challenger was defective, it was damaged when they dug up the treasures of ancient civilizations. And Buran had already collected ours from the stolen spare parts and the flight was not unmanned, piloted by Gagarin. He was hidden all these years on the moon. In my opinion, it turned out more zaboristy, eh ?!

[bayard]

Quote: AKuzenka

I'll tell you more

Sometimes silence is golden.

Quote: AKuzenka

A Buran

What do you young man know about "Buran"?
And I happened to participate in ensuring his landing. Like several hundred other descent vehicles, mostly military (film cassettes).

[Akuzenka]

Teach better than your spiders. You don't understand humor. I feel sorry for you.

[Sarboz]

Quote: bayard

They even when "Challenger" filled up their show (there was no crew in it)

Yeah, and the seven-man Witness Protection crew for plastic surgery and goodbye to wives, husbands and children. You should write legends for the introduction of undercover agents.

[bayard]

Quote: Sarboz

and seven crew members under the witness protection program for plastic surgery

There were no operations. And some even have a change of documents. And they did not particularly hide from anyone, in that environment (NASA) their environment knew about it. They just played a play.
... But we had to urgently return to the program, because we had "Buran" and "Energia" (the first launch of "Energia" was in the mock-up of the combat laser station "Skif", though it was brought out unsuccessfully, but the rocket worked out), and stay without the Shuttle, when the Russians had their own, they really didn’t want to. I had to urgently return to the program.
And use less go-around, better surf the internet. If you find it, you will learn a lot of interesting things for yourself.

[Sarboz]

Quote: bayard

And use less

Well, you are threatening your grandchildren with your finger.

Quote: bayard

better browse the internet. If you find it, you will learn a lot of interesting things for yourself.

Conspiracy theory is certainly infectious, and I myself like to look through such sensational reading for a dream. But it never occurred to me to bring this fiction to serious discussion. Well, if you are not too lazy to scratch your tongue, come on.

[sustav75]

You should have a pension, like a hard worker from a factory in 15 thousand rubles. And not the army four, five times more! I watched you sing patriotoptimistic songs here! Money works wonders! Putin will leave! They will remember about the working man! They will subtract you! How then will you sing? !! And then there are enough people like you. I noticed. As soon as a military pension is thrown, then immediately "hurray! Hurray! Hurray!"

[hrych]

It is not necessary to reduce the pensions of the security forces, but to increase the pensions of civilians. Also, the age of exit by seniority and age, I agree, is completely unfair. If a person fought and suffered hardships, there are no questions, and in epaulettes, financiers, personnel officers, etc. should not differ from civilians, and even remove epaulettes from them. About Hurray! And about patriotism. In the trenches of the Second World War, people went to their death and did not think about pensions, did not think about retirement age. Therefore, your postulate does not work. If it's a skin, then a huge pension is always not enough and do not care about the Fatherland, and if a patriot, then at least a beggar, he will give his life for the Fatherland.

[Akuzenka]

Putin will leave! They will remember about the working man! They will subtract you! How then will you sing? !! And then there are enough people like you. I noticed. As soon as a military pension is thrown, then immediately "hurray! Hurray! Hurray!"

Pavel, read the boring classics of Marxism and it will become clear to you who will decrease and who will increase.

[Akuzenka]

Although they look with horror at the moment of divorce. We are confident. The constellation of military satellites of the Russian Federation exceeded 140 units. Few?

With your lips, but honey to drink. There have been too many failures and blatant lies in this area to believe your statements. If it happens, then I will believe it. And then, judging by the promises and the state program, we already had to fly a reusable ship and our own OS, even last year. I will keep silent about the launch vehicles. The sky from them should be ALREADY black, for many years.

[Cosm22]

About grouping ... It's not that simple.
I have already written about the problems awaiting the super-duper project "Sphere". Everything rests on the element base. More precisely, in its complete absence due to useful sanctions.
EEE of the space class in Russia is not corny.
And the spacecraft designated by you are in orbits much higher than the OS.
As for talking about the so-called "import substitution" in this area, we all know their price very well.

[Nazar]

bayard - Either I misunderstand something, or the author did not read his entire article:
1. "It was noted that the further operation of the ISS will lead to huge costs for maintaining the technical condition due to the deterioration of the modules."
2. "Retrofitting the Russian segment of the ISS with these modules within three years will make it completely independent from the rest of the station, which may lead to the creation of a new orbital station on its basis."
So all the same "wear and tear" or "on its basis" -?

[bayard]

Apparently I mean the "Science" block and one more, which have been going to launch for a long time, but everything does not work out. "Science" is going to be launched this year. It is on the basis of the new modules that they are going to build their own - an autonomous station, and the old ones, which have worked out their own, gone cracks, will be pushed out of orbit.
Here is another inconvenience with the ISS - its orbit is not optimal for Russia and you will have to drag your station to another orbit ... you will need a rather powerful tug ...
But there is time, they will think

[Barberry25]

But are such things done in six months? Here they spoil you ... get used to a lot of everything and constantly ... Well, or are you too lazy to use the search: "On December 10, 2020, a contract worth 4,174 billion rubles was signed between Roscosmos and KB Arsenal for the development of a preliminary project on the creation of a space complex, with a transport and energy module (TEM) and a payload module (MPN) [3]. Code: "Nuclon-AP". Deadline for the contract: June 28, 2024. "

[Volder]

Quote: bayard

It is necessary to do real business - to develop / deploy a group of military satellites, communications and navigation satellites.

And that's it ?? How shallow you fly ...

[Tonpengof]

The warriors have classified "Nuclon" and are quietly sawing.

[Non liberoid Russian]

you dream of everything about the scoop, again take it for the maintenance of the republic, tear off a piece of bread from the Russians ... you got it with your ally

[ultra]

It was just the strategy that was finally decided.

[KAV]

We will build our own casino! With blackjack and shl .....! Damn blackjack though! (c) bender bender

But seriously, it's high time to create your own, and not to take part in someone's dubious projects! So as not to drill holes in the walls of various enemies and a broken latrine did not stink.

[unaha]

"It is high time to create your own" - it will not work, it is not provided by the source code of the system. "The main trend: the world space is getting cheaper. Russia, where the goal is to increase costs for the sake of the beneficiaries' income, in this process, alas, has no chance."

[Fan-fan]

We were especially surprised by such fan-lights:

According to RSC Energia's plans, commissioning of the station should begin after 2024.

Well, downright every day there are more and more dreamers and dreamers.

[hrych]

Partly due to the ISS program, our astronautics survived, at least not degraded. For more than two decades, a lot of experiments have been carried out and a two-turn scheme has been worked out from start to docking. What is the greatest achievement that has passed unnoticed. All this was done, in fact, for the money of the enemies. The enemy also enriched himself with knowledge on the operation of the orbital station, but, as it were, at the level of our 20th century. For the Russian Federation, this allowed us to reach a new level. And now the Supreme has made the final decision. Believe me, it will take years to persuade us to stay

[Cosm22]

The fact that the Russian cosmonautics to some extent rested on the money of the enemies is true. Heavenly life was!
From the delivery of the Americans to the ISS, loot was dripping (until they did something stupid and raised the price higher than the space one), from the sale of the RD-180 ... Now, alas, the shop was closed.
The two-turn circuit is, of course, the greatest achievement. Which, however, has no practical meaning, but what difference does it make?
But what about the new level is not clear. What kind of a new comic level has Russia reached? On the lunar? The one under the Gateway program? Which partners politely asked her to leave? And for some reason they are not going to persuade to stay?

[hrych]

Quote: Cosm22

The two-turn circuit is, of course, the greatest achievement. Which, however, has no practical meaning, but what difference does it make?

You'd better not say that. Firstly, our four-orbit scheme and 6 hours before docking caused admiration in NASA, but here it is still half as much. Firstly, these extra days are not for nothing, but for money. The same attempt to make a returnable step is the essence of an attempt to save money. Both crews are tense, spending energy on maneuvering and devouring resources. The crew gets stupidly tired, moreover, during these first hours of tough adaptation to weightlessness, there is a sharp flow of blood to the head, etc. The person gets lost, starts to screw up, he feels stupidly, and there is a responsible manipulation ahead - docking. Okay, automatic, but if you have to manually. This watch a person does not take off his spacesuit, he needs to defecate. Believe me, Americans' diaper is full and smelly And the stench in orbit ... you can't open the window The module itself is tight, the person lies in one position. And try to lie down for at least three hours and you will understand. Secondly, if an abnormal situation at the main station, for example, the failure of oxygen regeneration, depressurization of the hull and God forbid - fire, debris or micrometeorite flew in, then the time of arrival of help, oxygen, etc. will be critical. Okay, if there is an escape capsule and the question of the life of the station (How much does it cost? Maybe there is a spare one?), And if the capsule is damaged, then the lives of the pilots are at stake. Holding out for 3 hours or 30 is a big difference. Well, this is now, but in the future it will still come in handy. Collect the combat module of the combat station in 3 hours and attack the enemy or calve for more than a day under fire.

[Cosm22]

Have you tried writing novels?
The makings are there and the pathos is enough.
Ballistics and mathematicians, of course, did a good job, but this is the whole end result. It is applied.
There is little practical use.
I would be more satisfied if Russian scientists started working on new carriers and new engines for them. New QCs. This is practice.

[hrych]

So you start talking, as with a person, you bring arguments, and in response only a stupid denial. And the two-turn circuit is not an argument. Okay, it happens.

Quote: Cosm22

I would be more satisfied if Russian scientists started working on new carriers and new engines for them.

Firstly, you are not asked, and since the engines and carriers are perfect, why change them. It is not necessary to change the best for the good, but to go and develop devices based on new physical principles. A nucleon in your tape. Its smaller prototype is assembled. A breakthrough in hypersound, compact nuclear power plant of high power and in laser technologies, of course, in the near future, after mastering water and air, will move into space, including distant space.

[Cosm22]

A Russian taxpayer is never asked where and what his money is spent on. His job is to keep quiet and regularly unbuckle the loot in the pocket of the state in time. And Dmitry Olegovich will find a use for them without snotty. According to your understanding.
As for Nuclon, what do you know about him besides the headlines? Do you know that the project is experiencing significant difficulties? That the "megawatt class" TEM disappeared from the name completely?
What is the power of the nuclear power plant now from 480 ± 20 kW? Even projected?
That SAS TEM has already been cut from the initial 7 years to 2,5?
That TEM is not suitable for manned flights a priori?
That in connection with the complete absence of the EEE of the space category in Russia, it makes no sense to talk about Nuclon today? No, you can, of course, make an earthly model. But we have already seen enough of the models of the Federation Eagle. By the way, did not understand what they are made of - plywood or plastic?
That there is no solution for the use of ionic ID-500? What is the version using SPD-230?
And that even in this variant, Nuclon has no way to go back, because there is no stock of delta-V?
That there are, in principle, no problems for Nuclon today, except for several particular ones exclusively in the lunar program?
And how to derive Nuclon? Is there a suitable PH? To remind you that the Angara is on the LKI, and the Proton rested in the Bose?

[hrych]

Quote: Cosm22

His business is to keep quiet in a rag

It's better to do this. According to Nuclon, what you are entitled to will be reported. Your task is to pay taxes if a citizen of the Russian Federation In general, you want a lot of rights, but you forget about obligations. Give you publicity, restructuring and consensus. The main engine will not be ionic at all. Listen to Konanikhin and educate yourself. And then everyone is moaning, moaning ... Hungry or what? Not enough money for a Mercedes? For the state and Civilization, the main thing is that the people are well fed and progress, and not groans about taxes and envy about the temporary level of consumption of sheikhs. Then you need to choose not a military and scientific site, but a sausage site who are the first and most in the ranks of the traitors. Tell your fake troop leader you failed let him shoot himself, the manager of the officer's unshaven daughters

[Cosm22]

I appreciated the verbal flow. It is a pity that it has nothing to do with the military and scientific site in question in the commentary.
But we avoided discussing the topic with Nuclon. It's not about ion engines. Although there are disagreements on them.
And about the concept of the spacecraft as a whole, the "creation" of which you present as an outstanding achievement of Russia in space.
So, the only reliable fact known today is that last year a state contract was signed between Roscosmos and KB Arsenal for "the development of a preliminary project for the creation of a space complex with a transport and energy module based on a nuclear power plant." 
Everything!!!
These are all the successes of Russia today in building nuclear tugs. There is nothing more for the soul. I hope you understand the term "development"? The terms that pass from the beginning of development to implementation in hardware, I think, are also clear.
And - a little advice. As soon as you enter into a discussion on a military and scientific site, try to adhere to the facts, physical or tactical and technical characteristics of the subject of the conversation, scientific calculations, expert quotes. And hurray-patriotic slogans and headlines of newspapers are better for using really on sausage sites.

[hrych]

Here is your audience, first learned from the President about a maneuvering warhead, about a hypersonic aeroballistic missile, about an intercontinental torpedo and a cruise missile with nuclear power systems, for the first time they learned about a mobile anti-aircraft laser system. And these things have been done for decades in the deepest secrecy, with hidden funding and shrouded in a network of disinformation. Your audience neighing at the diagrams and cartoons, now all this is in hardware, and what is already on alert. Therefore, taking into account the above, your attempts with contracts, etc., as evidence of the absence of military, space developments, look ridiculous. What about the Nucleon hinted at, in general, I hope, again, an element of cover, a maneuvering space, combat station with a nuclear power plant, a laser detonation engine and a laser cannon Nuvulnerable from anti-satellite weapons and with its striking combat power based on new physical principles. Of course, scientific discoveries in space exploration are good, but only after we destroy the enemy and take control of the Earth. To do this, we are guaranteed to need to destroy all of their warheads, preferably before launch and guaranteed to deliver our own. Those. implement the SDI concept, only not in Reagan's bullshit cartoons, but in Putin's reality. In principle, the USSR partly went to coercion, disarmament and dissolution as an element of reaction to the SDI bluff. Who said that it is imperative to bring to war? We will deploy the starfleet to the underwater and aerial super-weapons, and the enemy will surrender the weapon, self-disband Why weapons at all? Why an arms race? Precisely that for world domination. It is possible that we have everything for this. And Rogozin, he is the same as Serdyukov - an actor covering secret operations.

[Cosm22]

Well, I wish you every success in destroying all the enemies that surround poor Russia and taking control of the Earth. In the destruction of everything and everyone. I wish you even more space in dreams and fantasies.
As a person who was once proud of the space achievements of his country, I am worried about much more prosaic things. Why, for example, today in Russia, in fact, only one carrier flies, only slightly altered from the sample of the beginning of the second half of the last century? On engines of the same age?
But the hurray-patriot does not ask himself such questions. What for?
If there are wunderwafeles with which we have already conquered the whole world?

[hrych]

Twenty five again If the engine works, if the carrier is reliable, why change the complex? It was made digital, it is progressing, not standing still. It develops and evolves, now in two rounds it already delivers cargo and shift workers Do you need 10 different media? Satellites Rokot displays. Proton is less frequent, but it flies and more launches are planned. Kazakhstan is preventing us from launching it, so the replacement cosmodrome was almost built. There are corresponding launch sites for both the Union and the Angara. All according to plan. What problems? And preach pacifism, for God's sake, one devil will be a global, nuclear war and he will not save you from it. Not by malice, but even by mistake, it will happen sooner or later.

[Cosm22]

Why trade burdock for toilet paper?
Lada on Gelding?
Disk phone to smartphone?
Washing board on a washing machine?
A bonfire on a gas or electric oven?
The mention of the conversion Rokot is not entirely appropriate, it is rather a forced measure.
The proton does not fly, but flies only under previously concluded contracts.
On the SC under the Angara, the horse did not roll around, they blinded only what could be done without much effort, that is, under the Union. By the way, the SC for the manned Angara is already not even in the construction plans. The Angara itself is on LCI and it is not known the code will be released from them.
But the problem is still the same - nothing of our own. Nothing new. Only the legacy of Glushko and the Queen. Even for the conditionally Russian project Angara, an engine based on the RD-170/171 line was taken.

[hrych]

The main thing is that the task of the country's defense is being solved. Doubt? Everything else is details. Since the Union is subject to modernization, it means that it has not developed morally. Once he delivers the required number of pilots and cargo, and even with world records at 3 o'clock, then he must live and work. And this is not a burdock, but a silk scarf Burdock is Elon Musk's ship, big, green and does not wipe, but smears

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: hrych

And these things have been done for decades in the deepest secrecy., with hidden funding and shrouded in a web of disinformation

In the deepest secret? By what means? I just want to answer with the words of an anecdote: "Smell what your jokes smell like!"
Even the big stars of the site do not give you the right to be humiliated in passing. I read your "skirmish" with "Cosm22 (Vladimir)" and it would be premature to give the palm to someone on the basis of facts known only to everyone (individually). Your opponent's aplomb is not so challenging and not repulsive.

Quote: hrych

It is possible that we have everything for this. And Rogozin, he is the same as Serdyukov - an actor covering secret operations.

And, perhaps, Rogozin is the same "professional specialist" as Serdyukov ... Continue the list of actors and roles? ... Or the same Chubais (a versatile actor: from a small cooperator to the "ruler" of billions for RosNANO) ... Or the same "Vladimirleninovich": from "kinder surprise" to "almost a substitute for the guarantor" ... Or the same Rotenberg: from a simple guy from the section to the "hero of capitalist labor" - co-owner of the famous palace near Gelendzhik ...
Nothing to imagine a performance. This acting could be believed if gasoline at a gas station cost 14 rubles / liter ... Or the airspace of the Fatherland was dissected in different directions by domestically produced aircraft ... Or people stood in queues for vaccination with a domestic "two-way" drug ... Either the Russian Federation laughed and scratched in the most immodest places about the American sanctions ... Or American athletes went to the awards ceremony to the sounds of "Kalinka-Malinka" and the flag of some organization "lovers of kissing black boots" ...
Actors (and this happened) received awards for creating a real image, for embodying real feelings on the screen. And you named the actors, except for a feeling of irritation and disgust, do not cause anything.
For the last counterargument to you and "your public" I want to ask just a couple of questions:
1. The increased number of DOLLAR (!!!) billionaires - is this Putin's cunning plan? For only then becomes clear the construction of “military bases of the RF Armed Forces) in different regions of the planet, cleverly disguised as villas and residences. For only then it becomes obvious why our fleet is concentrated in the waters of the world's oceans under the guise of "oligarchs' yachts" ...
2. Raising the retirement age of Russia's residents is not the fulfillment of the IMF requirements, but a skillfully hidden age of Russian centenarians?
You can endure and endure a lot in our life. Only behind the swollen faces of your dummies is not that speed visible in the same repair and reconstruction of naval ships, or the creation of a domestic payment system, electronics, aviation, those same promised schools, and simple equipment for the same housing and communal services, which is inherent in those who have achieved visible progress. A BLUFF of pure water can be traced from time to time. And you still manage to reproach the inhabitants of Russia with a monthly income of 9-14 thousand rubles for the absence of hunger?
Why don't you complain how hard it is to hide millions of salaries, billions of stolen money and their inappropriate use?
Thank you in the hat, mister "hrych"!

[hrych]

So there are sites of the hungry, there are sites of the dissatisfied, there are sites of traitors. Why carry a blizzard about class inequality on a militaristic website? First, the GDP went to a country not socialist from the State Medical University, but a capitalist-colonial country from the EBN. And there is no need to attribute the feats of EBN to the current regime. Moreover, under the EBN, the patriotic apposition was practically destroyed and was represented by a screen from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, in fact, as it should be by ideology - Russophobes and also the parliamentary faction, which the people gave the right to fight for their rights and homeland, was simply sold to the governor of Rothschild - Khodorkovsky. And Zyuganov, who won the election, surrendered the victory without resistance. On the eve of victory in the Caucasian War, they signed a surrender in Khasavyurt, etc. Forgot? So I remind you. Formed a clan of new, large owners with personal armies, etc. Only nuclear weapons remained untouched. Here the merit of EBN and will still be appreciated. Why did it ... a mystery. Perhaps at the Last Judgment he will be acquitted. History, no doubt. EBN himself was dying, his health was killed with stimulants, and the Trotskyist - Rokhlin was preparing a coup. And here the Zits-chairman was appointed ... He did form a real army. and not a slurry called CA. He recaptured the Caucasus and Crimea, destroyed Ichkeria and the Caliphate. Not the point. So he does the MS-21, he does the Superjet, he did not sew the Soviet aviation industry and launched the enemy's airplanes. He formed a real patriotic force ... in the army. And the class of owners? He split it and made a deal, giving guarantees of ownership of a part of the oligarchy, which the West did not do, having killed Badri, BAB and others. Covert nationalization was also carried out. Only after strengthening the army and sovereignty, he began to plant governors, generals, etc. So please, touched Furgal and he was able to hire protest crowds. Those. gave back to the state. Nothing, we went through and the process goes on. But you should never, never allow the communists to come to power, they will destroy the country no worse than the liberals. This is the second side of the globalism coin. These are certified Russophobes. Now, the corrupt and antipopular Communist Party of the Russian Federation has already turned into a political statistician, and this is also a great merit of the GDP.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: hrych

And there is no need to attribute the feats of EBN to the current regime.

Whose regime is this?

 Show / Hide text

That is why there is no faith in any more or less worthy deeds of the current government.

[hrych]

Mizulina is a real, hereditary communist-Bolshevik, a former member of the CPSU. GDP bought them purely from Khodorkovsky, etc.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: hrych

Mizulina is a real, hereditary communist-Bolshevik, a former member of the CPSU.

As for Putin:

You probably, out of ideological conviction, think that I and people like me (with similar views) are looking (see) in the built society only negative? Yes, hell there. We look at this:

Only all these projects against the background of unfulfilled promises and distant (fulfillment is possible beyond the boundaries of the life and work of the current president) are simply fed up. Do you understand? Nuclon, Pereklon, Nedoklon for two decades against the background of unrestrained PLOUNTING (!!!) of resources and funds looks like a monstrous phantasmagoric failure of statehood. Especially against the background of population decline ...
Can you imagine? For 30 years the population of Russia is DIE-OUT !!! And only those are alive who (it turns out) only depicts the ebullient activity and plays a role in the play known only to one author (guarantor). But, as it turned out, the uncle cannot even influence the prices for sugar ...

[sniperino]

Quote: hrych

never, never let the communists come to power, they will destroy the country no worse than the liberals. This is the second side of the globalism coin.

[military_cat]

Quote: hrych

Listen to Konanikhin and educate yourself.

Do you remember what a wonderful article from Konanykhine here, on VO, was published in due time?

https://topwar.ru/95392-makaronnyy-monstr-ilona-maska-ili-zakonomernyy-itog-avantyury.html

[Vadim237]

As for Nuclon, what do you know about him besides the headlines? Do you know that the project is experiencing significant difficulties? That the "megawatt class" TEM disappeared from the name completely?
What is the power of the nuclear power plant now from 480 ± 20 kW? Even projected?
That SAS TEM has already been cut from the initial 7 years to 2,5?
That TEM is not suitable for manned flights a priori?
The fact that Rosatom is working on the nuclear power plant and it has not had any problems lately.
The megawatt TEM has not disappeared anywhere by 2025, they plan to create a demonstrator of exactly 480 ± 20 kW, and by 2030 it will already have a megawatt one.
TEM for manned flights was not planned from the very beginning because it is an energy propulsion system and ion engines - the thrust is too small for these engines, such a module is suitable for long-term automatic research missions, and for manned long-distance flights, a large thrust is needed to quickly fly to the desired part of the solar system here whether more ZhDRD or YaZhRD.

[Stena]

Vadim! Request - to you - make links to the cited authors, if not difficult.
Otherwise, you usually write very reasonable things, but here such nonsense -

As for Nuclon, what do you know about him besides the headlines? Do you know that the project is experiencing significant difficulties? That the "megawatt class" TEM disappeared from the name completely?
What is the power of the nuclear power plant now from 480 ± 20 kW? Even projected?
That SAS TEM has already been cut from the initial 7 years to 2,5?
That TEM is not suitable for manned flights a priori?

But it turns out - this is a reference to the next soldier of the keyboard front.

[Cosm22]

I am well aware of the enormous plans of Roscosmos.
As well as the fact that the Russian cosmonautics does not stand still. She is constantly on the move. Right. In this regard, the mention of 2025 is somewhat premature.
There is no need to tell me that TEM was not planned for manned flights from the very beginning. It was this idea that I tried to convey to my opponent.

[Vadim237]

In this decade, everything will change - and shifts in law will be minimal.

[Cosm22]

The word "will" is not from the future tense? Not from that "right"?

[slipped]

Quote: Vadim237

As for Nuclon, what do you know about him besides the headlines? Do you know that the project is experiencing significant difficulties?

Seriously?

Quote: Vadim237

That the "megawatt class" TEM disappeared from the name completely?
What is the power of the nuclear power plant now from 480 ± 20 kW? Even projected?

Wrong. There is a phased development. Half a megawat is only the first stage.

Quote: Vadim237

That SAS TEM has already been cut from the initial 7 years to 2,5?

You are confusing different projects.

Quote: Vadim237

That TEM is not suitable for manned flights a priori?

At the first stage, it is a cargo tug.

Quote: Vadim237

The fact that Rosatom is working on the nuclear power plant and it has not had any problems lately.

The nuclear power plant is being developed at the Troitsk Institute for Innovative and Thermonuclear Research, the MV Keldysh Research Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the NIIKET named after N. A. Dollezhal.

Quote: Vadim237

The megawatt TEM has not disappeared anywhere by 2025, they plan to create a demonstrator of exactly 480 ± 20 kW, and by 2030 it will already have a megawatt one.

Above you said that there will be no megawatt Some kind of contradiction.

Quote: Vadim237

TEM for manned flights was not planned from the very beginning because it is an energy propulsion system and ion engines - the thrust is too small for these engines

Different TEM projects have different engines.

[Motorist]

Quote: slipped

Above you said

It was Vadim237 who did not quote the quotation of Cosm (a) 22. If it were not for the member of the forum Stena, then I would not have figured it out without a glass ...

[Alex777]

Partly due to the ISS program, our astronautics survived

It's hard not to agree.

The enemy also enriched himself with knowledge on the operation of the orbital station, but, as it were, at the level of our 20th century.

Many say that they caught up with us well.

For the Russian Federation, this allowed us to reach a new level.

Survive or reach the next level?
Could you explain, please, what is the new level? Besides the quick docking?

Believe me, it will take years to persuade us to stay

I agree. our participation insured the entire situation on the ISS.
In addition to saving money from our departure from the ISS, so far I see one main plus: we will be able to resolve defense issues at our station.
The time for this has come, definitely.

[hrych]

Quote: Alex777

Could you explain, please, what is the new level? Besides the quick docking?

Biological and other scientific experiments. A lot of closed information and defense issues were solved in their modules. In general, they switched to digital equipment and left analog equipment. It was very difficult. The two-turn circuit is not just like that, but it took years.

[zlinn]

about the two-turn scheme: this is generally not an achievement at all from the word at all, the station's orbital inclination is 51,6 degrees, the baikonur latitude is 47 degrees, the station was specially located for the convenience of launching from the baikonur, the Americans docked with ajena with an inclination of 28 (equal to the latitude of the cape) less than per revolution (70 minutes if I remembered for sure), but nevertheless, short docking unions began to be done only now, although there were no problems with this before, no one really needs it

[hrych]

All our achievements are not achievements for you. But Crimea is ours

[zlinn]

you might think that before it was not yours? before, all of Ukraine was yours, but now only the Crimea, such an achievement

[hrych]

Since 1991 Ukraine is not ours. Therefore, do not la-la. Brzezinski, who went to Hell, said that the new world order would be built against Russia, on the ruins of Russia and at the expense of Russia. But the ghoul was wrong. The New Russian Empire is being built against Ukraine, on the ruins of Ukraine and at the expense of Ukraine. Because of this Ukraine, the EU cracked, even Britain braced By and large, because of the Crimea, the EU collapsed. And why, guess yourself

[zlinn]

come on!!! Ukraine was all the years of "independence", the Russian backyard, and everything was intertwined even more strongly than the Amers and Canadians,

[hrych]

Well, first of all, it's a big misconception that Canada is a US colony. USA and Canada are separate and independent ... colonies of European masters The main owners are Welfs, Fettins and Oldenburgs (there is also a small Bourbon). One of the last grunted the other day, which the queen's husband, but not the king, but left the heir to the Oldenburg family, or rather its Glucksburg branch. And the West continues to be dominated by their First Reich - the Holy Roman Empire. All other Reichs are just a misunderstanding and disappeared like a misunderstanding. The first, millennial Reich rules. Britain, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Spain, Norway and Denmark are ruled by KINGS and QUEENS, and the European republics are under their complete control, and even more so under their full control, the United Colonies of America, Canada, Australia and other colonies with a colonial thaler - the dollar. And the so-called form - "constitutional monarchy" a cover for a stupid man in the street.

[Alex777]

Ukraine has been all the years of "independence", the Russian backyard

Apparently something didn’t suit you?
Nuland claimed to have bought you for $ 5 billion.

[zlinn]

us? What do I have to do with this? I left the Great and Mighty 31 years ago, and to be honest, your showdowns are not very interesting to me, I just asserted that the Russians themselves loved Ukraine, no cookies from the nullands would help if Russia would really like to keep Ukraine, but how I see from afar, did everything exactly the opposite

[Alex777]

no cookies from nulands would help if Russia wanted to really keep Ukraine

You simplify too much.
Ukraine wanted to be Europe. For free.
So we have what we have.
Until now, Ukraine has not understood that the West is interested in the standard of living in the West. And he takes no responsibility for "prosperous Ukraine". On the contrary, its resources are needed for the prosperity of the West.
The modern version of the colony. Pensions will soon be canceled and there will be a complete extinction.
Until Russia was perceived as a rival, everything was not going shaky, not shaky.
And when they decided to use Ukraine against Russia, they beckoned with cookies, and Nenka dashed off.
Who ran where is already clear.
Poetess ("we will never be brothers") - serves in the EU. "Lace panties and in the EU" in Moscow in the extras on the set was. Noticed, but now, most likely after problems with the covid - again at home ...
And Bandera cling to power because they do not want to go to the bunkers.
Everything is sad. Neither the Poles nor the EU helped the lads. And the States will not help. They have no such task from the word at all.

[Yahont]

How can you talk about the fraternal people like that ?! Yes, they have a lot of things ... that need to be removed, but for the most part there are our Bartya-Slavs and to build a discussion "on the bones" of relatives, at least, is stupid.
For your information - as you said "this Ukraine" has always been our land, and will be again. Thirty years apart for the Slavic civilization is nothing (it already happened), but betrayal is a lot.

[Jaromir]

Quote: Yakhont

"this Ukraine" has always been our land, and will be again

Will be. Here are just invaders with Bandera from Ukraine kicked out and will again with us in a single state.

[Yahont]

Absolutely.

[Cosm22]

Does it mean to create your own?
Are there any opportunities for this? Besides the Wishlist?
What can Russia really create today in this aspect?
Specifically on ROS, only some hints and fantasies were voiced. That the "Science", NEM "and" Prichal "modules will supposedly serve as a base for ROS.
There are several questions about this project.
1. Does Putin know what tasks for ROS are fixed in the FKP? Has the funding for ROS with "the number of modules from three to seven" already been laid on the basis of the current PCF? So far, it is only known that the current FKP provides for "the completion of the deployment of the Russian segment of the International Space Station, consisting of 7 modules and the continuation of its operation until 2024." ISS, but by no means ROS. How, then, should "the commissioning of the station (POC) begin after 2024"? After all, the term "commissioning" does not mean drawing sketches. Or does everything explain the hint "after 2024"? Those. could this epoch-making event theoretically happen in 2030? In 2040? In 2050? Or in the decades to come?
2. Who will do the ROC? Who will make the modules? The same people who failed to make new MLM tanks? For, you see, "technologies are lost." As a result, we got by with a simple addition of filters. Even if the manufacture of new tanks is an insoluble task, what kind of ROC can we talk about?

[alexmach]

that the current FKP provides for "the completion of the deployment of the Russian segment of the International Space Station, consisting of 7 modules and the continuation of its operation until 2024." ISS, but by no means ROS

As a matter of fact, as far as I understand, the set of modules we were talking about is the necessary minimum for long-term permanent operation of the station.

[Cosm22]

This set of modules was provided by the FKP for integration into the ISS architecture. But in no way in ROS.
FKP is a state document on the basis of which, in particular, financing of certain spheres of space activity is made. The current FKP is valid until 2025. There are no changes in the field of ROS.
How can you talk about the "commissioning" of ROC modules after 2024 (after all, it could be 2025), if the new FKP will start operating only from 2026?
The wording needs to be more precise.

[Alex777]

Does Putin know what tasks for ROS are fixed in the FKP?

Knows. More than all of us put together. This is his job.
In addition, space is one of the most classified topics.
And GDP can also give impetus to development.
Depending on the international situation.

[zlinn]

there is one more question that is generally little discussed, but where? into which ROS module are you going to stick the gyrodines? what kind? what to do with the power supply of the station, mounted (on the module cases) solar panels are not enough for modern needs, and there is nothing to display large-sized panels, in general there is still a lot of design work

[Cosm22]

My question is even more interesting.
Have you solved the problem with tanks in MLM by installing additional filters? Cardinally?
Did you have the option of refueling the tanks after all the troubles with them and alterations? Can the fuel system of the module be part of the station? There are a lot of ambiguities in the way of adjusting the orbit.

[Vadim237]

What can Russia really create today in this aspect? In general, everything is only a question of financing, and there are more than 39 companies that will deal with this.

[slipped]

Quote: Cosm22

There are several questions about this project.
1. Does Putin know what tasks for ROS are fixed in the FKP?

Here you are

There is no Russian orbital station in the current FKP. But it can be started from new modules for the ISS. They are in the FKP.

Quote: Cosm22

How, in this case, "the commissioning of the station (POC) should begin after 2024"?

The answer is simple - by separating the new MLM-U and UM modules from the ISS. Adding a new NEM module to them. There is a question with the inclination of the future station, but it is being resolved.

Quote: Cosm22

2. Who will do the ROC? Who will make the modules?

The MLM-U module has already been made. The UM module has already been made. The NEM module is at the stage of production on the slipway, its readiness is 2024:

Quote: Cosm22

The same people who failed to make new MLM tanks? For, you see, "technologies are lost."

Not. The new modules for POC are a different project from another manufacturer. The firstborn of this project is the future NEM.

[Sarboz]

Quote: Cosm22

The current FKP provides for "the completion of the deployment of the Russian segment of the International Space Station, consisting of 7 modules and the continuation of its operation until 2024."

That's all right. Only after 2024, when Russia will not extend cooperation on the ISS, will undocking take place and the Russian modules, in accordance with the FKP, will continue to operate autonomously in a new orbit:

Operation of the International Space Station (ISS) will continue until 2024. At this time, it is proposed to equip the Russian segment of the ISS with modules that are already in production, supplementing them with systems that ensure flight autonomy after 2024, to ensure the possibility of creating a Russian orbital station on their basis.
(Main provisions of the Federal Space Program 2016-2025)

Quote: Cosm22

The current FKP is valid until 2025. There are no changes in the field of ROS.

After all, it is in the FKP, which is in effect until 2025, that the creation of a ROS is provided. Roskosmos was preparing for the end of cooperation in advance.

[xorek]

Quote: novel xnumx

not him alone, it is necessary that others would not be offended

We will collect from everyone, otherwise they have grown fat already to disgrace ..

[El-bog]

Quote: novel xnumx

not him alone, it is necessary that others would not be offended

Who else are you going to dispossess of the President's colleagues from the Ozero cooperative?) Ah! Not. Childhood friends in judo training of the Rothenberg, most likely. Or not, Mr. Kovalchuk, who owns almost all the media in this unfortunate country, and who employs the former women of the President. Or mr. Timchenko, a friend through whom oil products are driven to Europe, with whom in the 90s they cleaned up the PTK and other "authoritative" people in St. Petersburg. No, most likely they will take away his "honestly" earned $ 2 billion from the famous cellist?) Who exactly should share in your opinion, please write down the names)

[keeper03]

The main thing is not to let the Americans get close to the new station !!!

[Rubi0]

I offer you to the felling for attempting to steal in especially large ones. Musk sells seats for his missiles for tens of millions without any dispossession. You can hint in a targeted manner that you need to buy several gift certificates for space flights

[Mikhail3]

Quote: Rubi0

Musk sells space for his missiles for tens of millions without any dispossession

Musk underestimated the cost of the start by 6 times, the government compensated him for five-sixths. Two crooks - Musk and the State Department, waged a dumping war against Roscosmos) So Musk is just trying to destroy a competitor to NASA, that's all. No need to refer to this thief ...

[Rubi0]

Dumping is a separate topic. The fact that there are more civilized methods of earning and supporting the industry does not negate this. Space tourism is gaining momentum, but such comrades who are more avid for freebies, with their statements about dispossession of kulaks, will themselves push capital abroad straight into the hands of competitors.

[Blackmokona]

You read the news how NASA resells something bought from Musk much cheaper than it takes from him and raised it almost to the level at which it takes from Musk and you thought that Musk raised the price for NASA. Re-read the news

[zlinn]

but it's useless, because the real state of affairs in the world is not interesting to Mikhail, and in general it is insulting

[antivirus]

did you know that Roma paid for the ISS?
only in appearance it was a state program. so everyone knew that the "collective Deripaska" was pulling and pulling lazy Russians from the swamp into the light and under the warming rays of the "Sun-Western civilization"

[Cat]

And what did Abramovich do right away? Maybe others want to participate too!

[Piramidon]

Quote: Ilya-spb

I also propose dispossessing, for example, Abramovich.

Why are these empty fantasies? For the likes?

[Fan-fan]

Yes, that's right. The guy got a couple of likes.

[Aleksandr1971]

А

Quote: Ilya-spb

Cheers, comrades!

I also propose dispossessing, for example, Abramovich. To finance construction.

Abramovich cannot be dispossessed. He is in London. As well as his money.

The same is with other oligarchs, except for those on the sanctions lists.
It is them that must be dispossessed.

[Nadrub]

Rather, dekulakization will begin with you

[Civil]

Quote: Egoza

And here Ukraine will not adhere.

Not Ukraine, but the Ukrainian SSR. And there was a contribution - read about Yuzhmash.

[xorek]

Quote: Civil

Quote: Egoza

And here Ukraine will not adhere.

Not Ukraine, but the Ukrainian SSR. And there was a contribution - read about Yuzhmash.

Well, yes, that's just all these objects in Ukraine were built by all the USSR and specialists from all over the Union worked there .. And they ALL destroyed it and betrayed everyone who created this power ..

[Bshkaus]

I support! And here Ukraine will not adhere. And then they took fashion, and Ze does not take insolence!

Without Ukraine, well, in any way? There is a plug in every hole

[xorek]

Quote: Egoza

I support! And here Ukraine will not adhere. And then they took fashion, and Ze does not take insolence!

How do you like Elena minus svidomye here ..)))) You were right about them ..

[Vadim Ananyin]

And when the squares had modesty, in what year or century?

[Civil]

Well, if VVP said and approved, then there will be a station. I hope the journalist will not be engaged in its construction. They say he is leaving for the Duma, we should write laws.

[Simon schempp]

Well, if VVP said and approved, then there will be a station.

Do not remind what the GDP said about the retirement age in 2005?

[Civil]

Quote: Simon Schempp

Do not remind what the GDP said about the retirement age in 2005?

This is different.

[dragy52rus]

and that it was raised in 2005?

[slipped]

Quote: Civil

They say he goes to the Duma, we write laws.

They say that chickens are milked there, and cows lay eggs.

[Sling cutter]

Its own orbital station is very good, but who can say with certainty how astronautics will develop and manned, incl.
One thing can be said for sure, at 2030 neither Putin nor Ragozin will be in power, and accordingly, giving promises and not being responsible for their implementation is a very convenient position.

[Civil]

Quote: Stroporez

One thing can be said for sure, in 230 neither Putin nor Ragozin will be in power,

Vladimir Vladimirovich will be in power at least until 2036. And most of those who are now writing here in the comments, by that time, will either die, or will already live in insanity. Impoverishment does not mean the collapse of power. Rather, it will strengthen the vertical.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Civil

Quote: Stroporez

One thing can be said for sure, in 230 neither Putin nor Ragozin will be in power,

Vladimir Vladimirovich will be in power at least until 2036. And most of those who are now writing here in the comments, by that time, will either die, or will already live in insanity. Impoverishment does not mean the collapse of power. Rather, it will strengthen the vertical.

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

[Civil]

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

Robert Mugabe has brought the Republic of Zimbabwe to the status of the poorest country in the world. And nothing, until he was 93 years old. And why are we worse than the Zimbabweans? Moreover, the successes of medicine are now such that we will be able to surpass the blacks.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Civil

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

Robert Mugabe has brought the Republic of Zimbabwe to the status of the poorest country in the world. And nothing, until he was 93 years old. And why are we worse than the Zimbabweans? Moreover, the successes of medicine are now such that we will be able to surpass the blacks.

And Andropov died at 70, and why is Putin worse than Andropov?

[Revolver]

Quote: Vol4ara

Andropov died at 70, and why is Putin worse than Andropov?

Brezhnev died at the age of 75, but for the last five years, if not more, he was the main character of anecdotes.

[Semyonich from the Urals]

Laughter through tears))

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Vol4ara

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

That is, do you think that after eighty insanity is inevitable?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: Vol4ara

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

That is, do you think that after eighty insanity is inevitable?

No

[Fan-fan]

Insanity or Alzheimer's may come earlier.

[Cat]

And what, on the post of the president it is necessary to pass tests in physical science?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Gato

And what, on the post of the president it is necessary to pass tests in physical science?

No

[Cat]

No

No

Are you often offered a drink in good company?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Gato

No

No

Are you often offered a drink in good company?

No, little drinker

[Cat]

low drinker

Are you sick, probably?

[forty-eighth]

Better iq tests

[Roman070280]

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

And someone really thinks that now the king is not in insanity ??
I'm 146% sure that he is completely and absolutely cut off from the real world and the life of the country's population .. For so many years on the throne, he has already turned into a teenager of "golden youth" who can only use a phone to pay for purchases, and have no idea have where money comes from, and what is the real cost of living ..

[Irokez]

Quote: Roman070280

I am 146% sure that it is completely and absolutely cut off from the real world and the life of the country's population.

And I am 146% sure that your 146% confidence is purely propaganda and against the achievements and plans of Russia.

[Roman070280]

And what did I propagandize in my own words ??)
Where in the text was there even a word about the interests of Russia ??
Aby blurt out ..))

Well, about the achievement if .. have reached the retirement age of 65 .. have reached an average salary of $ 500, pensions of $ 200 ..
Yes .. I am against such achievements .. and it is precisely because it is said that the tsar is completely isolated from what is happening, and his henchmen have insanity ..
As they say, believe it or not ... but 146% of the fact that all this is not in the interests of Russia is on the face ..

[Irokez]

Quote: Roman070280

And what did I propagandize in my own words?

Not love and not trust in the state.

146% of the fact that all this is not in the interests of Russia

One thing is in the interests of Russia, another is in the interests of a person, and the truth is somewhere in the middle (the golden mean) and it (the truth) cannot satisfy the state and the individual 100%. You only ran into a person, forgetting about the interests of the state.

[Roman070280]

Not love and not trust in the state.

I didn't have a word about the state ..
Once again Sergey lied ..))
Or he decided that "The State is Putin" (hello to Napoleon)

One thing is in the interests of Russia, another is in the interests of man.

Wow how ..))
Well, yes .. if we proceed from the principle "Russia is Putin" - then indeed - the interests of Russia will differ from the interests of the people ..
But, in fact, I just wrote this above ..

I'm 146% sure that it is completely and absolutely cut off from the real world and the life of the country's population.

the truth cannot satisfy the state and the individual 100%.

"people" and form the State .. The State has no other interests except the interests of these very people !!

[Irokez]

Quote: Roman070280

I didn't have a word about the state.

Yes yo ma yo. Your message in your posts hints and implies that Putin is to blame for everything (well, it seems to me and is understood), and if so, it turns out that the state is ruled by Putin purely for himself and his interests, and that means if Putin means the State, and if the State means Putin. That is, we are talking about the state if it is led by Putin, but he is the leader and the coordinator who controls the state from the top. And you still accuse me of lying by tying the State and Putin into one whole, which is still supposedly working against the people and only for oneself beloved.
Do not forget that it is the state that creates for the people a kind of social system of life support, existence, supply, education and medicine with protection from external enemies and it is impossible to ignore the needs of the state for these purposes. That is, if you give everything to people to a penny (as you probably dream), then the state will simply disappear and chaos, a wild field, anarchy and the loss of territories and nationalities as such will begin.
So you are 146% divorced from reality with a desire (maybe purely sincere) for everything for people, but this is utopia and death for all people.

"people" and form the State.

Sure. It is not the bees who create the state, although at the level of a swarm of bees and bees, it is the queen (leader) that is the basis around which everything revolves. Without this organization of the swarm, the bees will die, and therefore everything is done to maintain the stability of the swarm and the queen, and after that the distribution for the rest, but at the same time, all are provided with the most necessary things.
The benefits of the people go through the benefits of the state. A rich state is a rich people. One comes out of the other, the main thing is that the distribution is fair and according to merit with great wealth of the state.

[Roman070280]

Yes yo ma yo. Your message in your posts hints and implies that Putin is to blame for everything (well, it seems to me and understands), and if so, it turns out that the state is ruled by Putin purely for himself and his interests .

Right..

and it means if Putin means the State, and if the State means Putin

And this is no longer true ..

If I say that Putin does not mean in any way that "I am a traitor, I do not love my Motherland, I sold myself to the State Department," etc.))

And you still accuse me of lying linking the State and Putin into one which still allegedly works against the people and only for himself.

Yes, nope .. it’s just you yourself, for some reason, tied the State with Putin into one whole .. and now, in your justifications, you’re lying again, as if I tied it ..))

I have just repeatedly emphasized that I wrote exclusively about INSANCY AND DISCONNECTION FROM THE REALITIES OF AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON ..
Well, with the same success you can write that Medvedev was (with this few will argue) .. or that YELTSIN - ALKASH .. After that I will be told that I "propagandize against the achievements and plans of Russia" ??
And if I write that Gorbachev is a traitor and corrupt - you will say that I am propagandizing against the achievements of the USSR ..))

I hope that with these examples you now understand the inappropriateness of your accusations against me ..

The blessings of the people go through the blessings of the state. A rich state is a rich people.

And who, in our country, defends the interests of the State so that the people are ultimately a beggar ??) Maybe they are defending somehow wrong ?? Or in the interests of the wrong ??)

the main thing is that the distribution is fair and according to merit with great wealth of the state.

Ooo .. we are moving in the right direction ..))
And when the distribution is unfair .. what will it be called ??
When a million rubles are taken away from a pensioner in 5 years - is it in the interests of the people and increasing justice ??

PS .. actually, I started with this .. and it seems like it's obvious .. But you, for some reason, made a circle to come back to something from which we can't get away ..))

[Vadim237]

And what is it that you consider your pension and salaries in Russia in dollars - in general, all prices in our country are in rubles.

[Roman070280]

And what is it that you consider your pension and salaries in Russia in dollars - in general, all prices in our country are in rubles.

But because when in rubles at a rate of 33, and when in rubles at a rate of 77, these are two big differences.
We seem to live in a global economy .. if we want to buy a PC / phone / household appliance from China, a rag / shoe from Turkey, a turbine from Germany, or even just go to relax in Bulgaria - no one cares about our salary in rubles .. as well as in Venezuela ..

Well, and the fact that everything from gasoline, cars, and housing and communal services, ending with sugar, butter and cigarettes in rubles can cost one price or twice as much - you also know yourself ..
So our prices are not in rubles, but in "conventional" units.
When it was in rubles, the plates on the back were printed from the factory.

[paul3390]

Vladimir Vladimirovich at least until 2036 year will be in power. And most of those who are now writing here in the comments, by that time, will either die, or will already live in insanity.

Yeah. And Putin, of course, will be alive and well, in complete intelligence and absolutely sane. In 2036 .. And of course, he will still be the president of the Russian Federation, there is somehow no doubt about that ..

[Civil]

Quote: paul3390

Yeah. And Putin, of course, will be alive and well, in complete intelligence and absolutely sane. In 2036 .. And of course - he will still be the President of the Russian Federation, somehow there is no doubt about that ..

And then the grandson or daughter will change. For those who do not understand, the situation that is now in the Russian Federation is serious and forever.

[paul3390]

To the Cosmonautics Day .. Part ..

Late in the evening of April 11, 1961, Korolev was urgently summoned to the Kremlin.

From the abundance of cars at the entrance, the designer guessed that all the Politburo was assembled.

- Please come here, - the officer on duty clicked his heels.

A green-shaded lamp cast a disturbing light across the historic panels and soft carpet.

- Tomorrow morning the man will make the first space flight. The party wants to know the identity of the candidate who will open the road to space for mankind.

- The identity of the candidate is known and approved by the government commission. - Korolyov pulled the collar of his shirt.

- Isn't your Putin young for space? Mikoyan asked sharply.

- Firstly, not mine, but ours, - the designer snapped, - and secondly, Vladimir Vladimirovich is the only candidate who came with his rocket ...

- Don't worry, comrade Korolyov, drink some water. You are not accused of anything. The party just wants to make sure that the countdown of the space age will open up the most worthy one.

- I know, comrades, now it sounds absurd, - Korolev's voice was gaining strength. - But in the historical perspective, in the year of, say, the 60th anniversary of the flight into space, our descendants will find our hesitation just ridiculous, because, well, really, if not Putin, then who?

- But isn't Comrade Putin just 9 years old? - Mikoyan did not calm down.

- Nonsense, - snapped Korolev, - in XNUMX Putin was not born at all, but this did not prevent him from winning the Great Patriotic War on his own ...

***

[Sling cutter]

Quote: paul3390

And Putin, of course, will be alive and well, in complete intelligence and absolutely sane. In 2036 ..

Believe sincerely that he will be dying much earlier.

[Per se.]

Quote: Civil

Impoverishment does not mean the collapse of power. Rather, it will strengthen the vertical.

"Anything that doesn't kill us makes us stronger"?

[donavi49]

Well, generally interesting.

Americans leave for the lunar station - with money and resources.
The new orbital will be made by Axium, with an eye on tourism.

The Chinese are putting their station out of the first block in a week, and they want to populate it by the end of this year.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: donavi49

Americans leave for the lunar station - with money and resources.
The new orbital will be made by Axium, with an eye on tourism.

So I'm talking about this, everyone is already going into the development of more or less deep space, and Putin and Ragozin are also going to flounder in near-earth orbits in 2030.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Stroporez

So I'm talking about this, everyone is already going into the development of more or less deep space, and Putin and Ragozin are also going to flounder in near-earth orbits in 2030.

And where will the deep space spacecraft start from, right from Cape Canaveral and straight into the asteroid belt?

[Blackmokona]

Yes, as they have already done many times

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: BlackMokona

Yes, as they have already done many times

What have they done many times? Launch of satellites-rovers? Are people the same? They don't need food, water, air, spacesuits, hand equipment?
On Falcon Heavy, at the very least, you can only fly to Mars, and then not really lingering there. You can, of course, pre-launch several supply ships, but where is the guarantee that they will top up and land in the right place?
Or do you imagine a space mission as something like a sea convoy, when one main ship is accompanied by a bunch of auxiliary ones? It seems to me that in that case even Musk will go broke.
It is easier to assemble a ship in earth orbit and fly from there. And this requires an orbital station - an assembly shop.

[Irokez]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

It is easier to assemble a ship in earth orbit and fly from there. And this requires an orbital station - an assembly shop.

Yes. This is how it will be in the near future. And Musk-fiction writers are doing a lot of PR all over the world, creating the impression of leaders.

[Vadim237]

Well, long-distance manned space travel alone will not be carried out by at least two ships.

[Irokez]

If you need good insurance, then yes, or even three ships, well, or transshipment bases (such as jump airfields) when there is a stable base and the development of space is gradually expanding from it. And this is how the network of supply and accommodation bases is being built. Just one of the bases should be near-earth where expeditions dock, are repaired, refueled and launched into space.

[Blackmokona]

Read about SpaceX Starship

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: BlackMokona

Read about SpaceX Starship

I read it. It turns out the same thing with the Apollo software. We landed, put a flag, collected samples, rode the Rover, that is, stayed on Mars for several days, and flew away. With the Starship's carrying capacity, there can be no talk of any lengthy stay. But for the first few flights, like those that were in the same Apollo, it is quite suitable.
And you can't bring cargo on it for future expeditions either. Is that leave unspent.

[Vadim237]

At first, the Starships will have to carry equipment and food in unmanned versions there, respectively, it will be one-way flights, it is possible they will start carrying construction robotics, but ships from Mars will not be able to take off, since for this launching tables should be built on Mars, there should be methane production plants and oxygen and, most importantly, there must be Superhavey rockets and refueling ships in orbit so that the Starship can return back to Earth, and this will not appear there very soon, even if the Starship and Superhavey do it in the next 5 years.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Vadim237

At first, the Starships will have to carry equipment and food in unmanned versions there, respectively, it will be one-way flights, it is possible they will start carrying construction robotics, but ships from Mars will not be able to take off, since for this launching tables should be built on Mars, there should be methane production plants and oxygen and, most importantly, there must be Superhavey rockets and refueling ships in orbit so that the Starship can return back to Earth, and this will not appear there very soon, even if the Starship and Superhavey do it in the next 5 years.

That is why, for me personally, the concept of an interplanetary orbital vehicle, which performs an Earth-Mars shuttle flight without stopping, seems to be expedient. And the unloading of the crew and cargo is carried out by the shuttles carried by them. There is no need for such shuttles to fly to Mars and then return back, their task is much more trivial, and therefore easier and cheaper.

[Blackmokona]

Poorly read. He has a cargo of 100+ tons to Mars. And they plan to produce them in hundreds

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: BlackMokona

Poorly read. He has a cargo of 100+ tons to Mars. And they plan to produce them in hundreds

You read it badly. It brings 100 tons to LEO, and only 21 to GPO. Or do you really think that it will carry a hundred tons to Mars itself? What kind of engines should it have and how much fuel does it carry, if indeed 100 tons to Mars?

[Blackmokona]

Excellent read. He has the ability to refuel in space from the Starship Tankers.
That is, the Starship goes into orbit, followed by many tanker ships that transfer fuel to it, after which it flies to Mars.
Arrives on Mars without going into orbit, immediately diving into its atmosphere where 99% of the energy is extinguished by it, after which it makes a jet landing. On Mars, the first unmanned Starships will bring factories to produce fuel from the ice and atmosphere of Mars. Plants can be easily integrated into ships.
This will allow the next ships to return to Earth for reuse.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: BlackMokona

On Mars, the first unmanned Starships will bring factories to produce fuel from the ice and atmosphere of Mars. Plants can be easily integrated into ships.

It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines, and walk along them, in the sense of flying.
On Earth, not all plans are being implemented the way they originally thought, what to say about Mars. Remember the same Musk, how for a very long time he could not figure out the production of Tesla.

[Blackmokona]

For a very long time, only half a year delay in production from terribly ambitious plans.

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

For a very long time, only half a year delay in production from terribly ambitious plans.

And what is the terrible ambition? The creation of a battery electric car that stands like an airplane is another dead-born action from the patrons of "green" activists like Greta Thunberg. The chain for the environment is no better than that of cars with internal combustion engines. We generate ordinary "dirty" electricity at power plants, then, with additional losses, we charge the batteries. In a few years, we are thinking about how to dispose of a huge amount of hazardous batteries. And after a few years, we are thinking what to do with the overgrown infrastructure of already unnecessary charging stations.
Tesla's ambitious and disruptive plan would have been if Musk had developed a fuel cell electric vehicle. But this requires real R&D with solid funding. And to pump the next financial bubble, it's easier for an old electric car, which delivered spare parts from a warehouse to a workshop back in the 1980s, pack it into the body of a supercar with an autopilot and launch it into orbit, where he actually belongs together with other space debris.

[Blackmokona]

Foltz has already conducted a study, extremely total, covering everything and with the maximum likeness of a car on different engines.
https://habr.com/ru/post/449644/

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

Foltz has already conducted a study, extremely total, covering everything and with the maximum likeness of a car on different engines.

I read this. In addition, I saw similar calculations of energy consumption for the production of one wind turbine, carried out by an independent researcher. It turns out that the wind turbine is unlikely to pay for itself in the coming decades. And on electric vehicles everything turns out in chocolate.
All "green" technologies are lobbied, research is commissioned. Probably there is a rational grain in this, but I am not a supporter of the mass construction of battery cars. In addition, an environmentally friendly battery recycling technology was developed only last year by Duesenfeld. The question is how quickly this technology will spread around the world and how economically feasible it is. I think it is necessary to support the development of fuel cells at the state level. Even gasoline fuel cells have already appeared in the UK. By definition, the direct chemical conversion path has a much higher efficiency.

[Blackmokona]

Equating all the studies that you do not like with custom ones, you go into cospirology, since it becomes impossible to prove your lack of prowess.
It can only be countered that all research that goes against green energy is funded by oil tycoons and sheikhs.

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

Equating all the studies that you do not like with custom ones, you go into cospirology, since it becomes impossible to prove your lack of prowess.

You judge me too harshly. I wrote:

Quote: Sarboz

Probably there is a rational grain in this, but I am not a supporter of the mass construction of battery cars.

And I gave my reasons. Lack of implemented battery recycling technology and potentially more promising fuel cell technology.

[Blackmokona]

For a long time there has been an implemented technology for battery recycling.
And the technology of fuel cells is much worse, you can buy a car with fuel cells without any problems, they are available for sale. The main thing is not to look at the price and the number of gas stations for them.

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

For a long time there has been an implemented technology for battery recycling.

You don't know how to read carefully.

Quote: Sarboz

Besides eco-friendly battery recycling technology was developed only last year by Duesenfeld.

I have highlighted the key word for you in bold. In addition, the efficiency of the "embedded" technology of battery recycling is extremely low. This is expressed in the fact that not everything is recycled and unprocessed residues poison the environment. Therefore, I will add the keyword "effective" technology.
On fuel cells, you are a little unaware. The SOFC efficiency already reaches 70%, and for the internal combustion engine - 45%. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Blackmokona]

1) And before this company there were over 9000 technologies.
Vaughn Foltz was not told, he had already opened the plant
https://motor.ru/news/batteryrecycling-29-01-2021.htm
Foltz also says that the processing flow is now very small, so there is nowhere to rush.
2) So there is a free sale of cars on fuel cells, buy and ride. Just do not tell me why such a crazy price, because not everything in the world is tied to efficiency, the price of obtaining this efficiency is very important. The same electric motors give 98-99% efficiency, are very cheap and are distinguished by gigantic reliability and simplicity. But there is a nuance that you know about

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

Just do not tell me why such a crazy price, because not everything in the world is tied to efficiency, the price of obtaining this efficiency is very important.

That's right, I know. therefore

Quote: Sarboz

I think it is necessary to support the development of fuel cells at the state level.

It won't take long for this technology to reach an acceptable price and replace the battery. But I will not argue. Time will judge.

Quote: BlackMokona

Foltz also says that the processing flow is now very small, so there is nowhere to rush.

The flow is small for the following reason. Hundreds, and maybe thousands of Moscow representatives of office plankton, fooled by Greta Thunberg, are buying electric cars from Europe and Asia that have become quite cheap after several years of use, not suspecting that the battery life is already running out. They will not send the battery for recycling to Europe. In Eastern Europe, there are also plenty of such clever people.

[Blackmokona]

1) The main supporter of fuel cells Tayota, she has invested billions of dollars in their development for decades, promotes and sells cars on fuel cells, this year it seems to have begun to give up and after all the criticism of Tesla announced that they would have a joint electric car with Tesla.
2) In Russia, extremely funny sales of electric cars, the main way of batteries now is to use them in stationary drives. This is critical in a car when the battery loses a significant portion of its capacity, and the power reserve will no longer please. But a stationary drive and 10% of the original capacity is not bad.
All battery resources write up to 80% of the original capacity, further degradation slows down greatly and goes slowly to zero. During this time, you can scroll another 20-30 years in stationary drives.

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

1) Tayota's main supporter of fuel cells, she has invested billions of dollars in their development for decades, promotes and sells fuel cell cars

You are extremely inattentive. Toyota is hydrogen technology. This is essentially the same path as in battery electric vehicles. It's just that the intermediate link for the accumulation of "dirty" electricity is not the battery, but hydrogen. So far, this is a dead-end path. I told you about fuel cells using natural fuels: gas or petrol.

Quote: BlackMokona

In Russia, extremely funny electric car sales

This is in the primary market. We do not have so many naive rich Buratino who are ready to throw such fantastic grandmother on a purely "summer" car. But in the used segment, everything is more fun. The battery is already running out, so the price is ridiculous. But this is so fashionable.

[Blackmokona]

1) It is hydrogen that it pumps into the fuel cells.
And gas and gasoline are simply worse, firstly in terms of characteristics, and secondly, gasoline and gas are very finite things.
2) Tesla has a battery thermal control system and normally operates at minus 30 degrees.

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

And gas and gasoline are simply worse, firstly in terms of characteristics, and secondly, gasoline and gas are very finite things.

Well, that's just nonsense. And about the limb, the explored reserves are constantly increasing. And about the worse in terms of characteristics - this is only from the point of view of Greta Thunberg. When hydrogen reacts in a fuel cell, it releases only water, and gas and gasoline also release carbon dioxide. But hydrogen production requires dirty electricity, which produces the same amount of carbon dioxide. The final efficiency of a fuel cell is higher than that of a power plant. Therefore, the conversation is about WORSE about nothing. Hydrogen technologies are still far from "green" ideals.

Quote: BlackMokona

Tesla has a battery thermal control system and is normally operated at minus 30 degrees.

So what? What will you heat the salon with? From the battery? How much will the mileage drop? Or maybe you will stick a dirty, non-ecological, non-technological autonomous stove into the Tesla spacecraft?
By the way, what is good about the fuel cell is that the remaining 30% of the energy released in the form of heat can be used in the summer in an additional turbine, and in the winter to warm up the passenger compartment.

[Blackmokona]

1) They only increase due to more and more expensive deposits. These are sands of Arabia 2 $ a barrel, Siberia already 20 $, Slate already 50 $, artik 80 $, bituminous sands under 120 $. More and more expensive, less and less profitable.
2) Well, think at Tesla's battery under 100 kWh, how many kilowatts do you need in the salon so that it is not cold?
If one stove is enough, then it can work for 100 hours on 1 charge

[Sarboz]

About oil, I already read 30 years ago that at the beginning of the 21st century it will completely end.

Quote: BlackMokona

Well, think at Tesla's battery under 100 kWh, how many kilowatt stoves do you need in the salon so that it is not cold?
If one stove is enough, then it can work for 100 hours on 1 charge

In fact, everything has been tested for a long time. In winter, the mileage in Moscow on a NEW battery is halved. In addition, the driving dynamics drops significantly.
Good luck on the road.

[Blackmokona]

1) And so it ended.
They wrote about the peak of oil, the United States passed it for example. And then they discovered the technology of shale oil production, which is much more expensive, worse, but here's a new leap. Only you yourself understand that each such transition is a step into nowhere.
2) This is you again about the old Leafs that did not have a thermoregulation of the battery and it was very small.
Then Musk came and showed everyone how to do it.

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

1) And so it ended.

No, it's not over. The Arabs will definitely disagree with you. And I don't give a damn about the United States.

Quote: BlackMokona

This is you again about the old Leafs that did not have a thermoregulation of the battery and it was very small.
Then Musk came and showed everyone how to do it.

No, I'm talking about testing 85 kW Tesla in Moscow, 180 km in winter versus 350 in summer. With a 100 kW battery, the trend is the same. There are no miracles.

[Blackmokona]

1) The Arabs who are very actively building solar power plants and talk about the end of oil disagree with you.
2) Who tested and when?

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

Arabs who are very active in building solar power plants

Greens rule.

Quote: BlackMokona

Who tested and when?

Well, you asked. Some electric car enthusiasts from the Elon Musk sect in Moscow.

[Sarboz]

Quote: Sarboz

Some electric car enthusiasts from the Elon Musk sect in Moscow.

In my opinion on Teslavod.ru

[Sarboz]

Quote: BlackMokona

this year it seems to have begun to give up and after all the criticism of Tesla announced that they will have a joint electric car with Tesla.

And to hell with her with this Tesla.
Russia will build its own orbital station. This is the main thing.

[Sarboz]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Remember the same Musk, how for a very long time he could not figure out the production of Tesla.

Did you figure it out? NASA has already raised the question of why Musk uses budget funds from space programs to support Tesla's unprofitable project. Will production pay off in the end? Or how will any bubble just burst? And if Tesla bursts, where is the guarantee that Space X will not suffer the same fate?

[Disant]

everyone is already leaving for the exploration of more or less deep space

explain who went where
you yourself speak in general phrases and blame others for the same

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Disant

explain who went where
you yourself speak in general phrases and blame others for the same

Colleague, read the comments carefully! My post was in response to a comment
donavi49

[Disant]

I read everything carefully - and about the future axium in the orbit of the Earth, and about the Chinese in the orbit of the Earth, and about the future lunar station of the Americans.
and in what way does the future of Axium and the Chinese in Earth orbit differ from the future of ROS? Orbits?
.
and the fantasies of the Americans about the lunar orbital station will be smashed against reality in the form of meaninglessness. Do you know what the goals of the Americans' lunar orbital station are? For $ 50 billion worth just at the start of operation? with the annual budget of the RF space of three?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Disant

and in what way does the future of Axium and the Chinese in Earth orbit differ from the future of ROS? Orbits?

Colleague, they differ in that for them it is the present, but for us it is a distant and, very, vague future.

Quote: Disant

Do you know what the goals of the Americans' lunar orbital station are?

I think that the Americans and the Chinese are not at all d / uraks and they have pragmatic goals in the exploration of the moon.

[Disant]

for them it is real, but for us it is distant

here you are again in general phrases ..
what's real to them? Axium in pictures, the Chinese are just starting to collect their belongings into orbit, and we are not going to go anywhere for a long time.
.

I think that the Americans and the Chinese are not at all d / uraks and they have pragmatic goals in the exploration of the moon.

the Chinese are not going to explore the Moon by humans.
and pragmatic Americans lost their pragmatism at the moment when they began to pour out trillions of freshly printed money uncontrollably. In that year, 18 trillion were completed, this year they have already begun too - a couple of them were completed.
The Americans have NO targets in the orbit of the Moon in the form of a residential or semi-living orbital station.
There are goals on Earth in the form of a drink and the achievement of their political goals

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Disant

There are goals on Earth in the form of a drink and the achievement of their political goals

Yes, it’s the damned mattresses on the "Vostochny" loot sawed off!
All the reports of our leaders have a pronounced populist character, not confirmed either by the success in the economy or by the state of industry.
Natural questions arise, where is our machine-tool industry, where is microelectronics, where is scientific planning?
There is nothing of this, but there are only empty promises and equivocations on stupid, thieving mattresses.

[Disant]

You praised the Americans, praising them for their future plans to advance in space exploration of space, and I just asked you about the goal of the Americans in the orbit of the moon - for the second time you evade the answer, talking in slogans. I gave you my version, and you ascribe to me

equivocal on stupid, thieving mattresses

.
Just refute me by telling me that the Americans have solved all the technical issues, medical and biological, and now they can fly there (or can fly) with such and such a declared purpose. After all, they could do it 50 years ago, now, apparently, money is burning in the thigh - the great campaign must be repeated.
you understand - we can, too - you just need to fasten a step to the Union, but there are no goals for the flight and finding a person in the orbit of the moon. In the orbit of the Moon - background irradiation from space, no protection, an astronaut turns into minced meat in a couple of months. Americans flew pills there right away

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Disant

You praised Americans for their future promotion plans

Firstly, I did not praise any Americans, but only state the fact of the success of mattresses in space exploration to date, and they didn’t tell me anything in my ear about their goals for the exploration of the Moon, maybe you know, then share.
I also want to note that your reasoning about Amerov's cuts is not interesting to me, since I live in Russia and I know exactly how they cut with us.
PySy. Below I have provided a video from a specialist, where it is told why, what and how.

[Irokez]

Why argue with a man who cuts slings to everyone. This is usually done by enemies.

[Harry.km]

Quote: Disant

In that year, 18 trillion were completed, this year they have already begun - a couple of them were completed.

A couple per quarter, that's only 8 per year. But something else is more interesting, they draw dollars, and the ruble fell by 8% in our country.

On the Moscow Exchange, trading on March 9 was not held due to the weekend and will resume on March 10. But on F o re x the ruble fell by 8,8% against the dollar to 74,5 rubles, against the euro - by 9,7% to 85 rubles. This is the largest daily drop in the ruble exchange rate since December 16, 2014: then the Russian currency fell in price against the dollar by 10,9% to 67,79 rubles, against the euro - by 11,1% to 84,59 rubles. (c) https://www.vedomosti.ru/finance/articles/2020/03/09/824758-padenie-rublya

[ultra]

A person cannot fly into deep space, at least at the current level of technology development.

[Cat]

A person cannot fly into deep space

He can fly - but why? There are still enough resources on Earth, but the departed gods, hiding enemies and sales markets in space have been found so far.

[ultra]

Precisely it cannot, cosmic radiation does not allow.

[Cat]

cosmic radiation does not allow.

Well, this is a solvable problem. In the end, the average person cannot walk on water (as well as fly), but he learned to cross the oceans. I believe in human intelligence and adventure

[ultra]

At our level of technological development, this problem cannot be solved.

[Vadim237]

Already decided with new materials and yes cosmic radiation in 97% of the total proton.

[Victorio]

Quote: Stroporez

Quote: donavi49

Americans leave for the lunar station - with money and resources.
The new orbital will be made by Axium, with an eye on tourism.

So I'm talking about this, everyone is already going into the development of more or less deep space, and Putin and Ragozin are also going to flounder in low-Earth orbits in 2030.

===
their goals, objectives and capabilities. drip in the internet, there in detail

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Victorio

their goals, objectives and capabilities. drip in the internet, there in detail

And what is there to dig? Here is a video from a specialist.

[Victorio]

Quote: Stroporez

And what is there to dig? Here is a video from a specialist.

===
specialist designer. and we are talking about the use / purpose, and here is a whole field for the study of scientists, agriculture, ministry of emergency situations, meteo, etc.

[lucul]

The new orbital will be made by Axium, with an eye on tourism.

Will they go to diapers again?)))
Who will do the toilet? )))

[Irokez]

By the way, the Americans seem to have washed down their toilet.

[Pessimist22]

Elections are coming soon, we must promise from three boxes.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Pessimist22

Elections are coming soon, we must promise from three boxes.

“… The economic weakness of Russia continues to be a serious problem. The growing gap between the advanced states and Russia is pushing us to the third world countries. The numbers of current economic growth should not be reassuring: we continue to live in the conditions of a progressive economic lag ...

... The main obstacles to economic growth are high taxes, arbitrariness of officials, and rampant crime. The solution to these problems depends on the state. However, an expensive and wasteful government cannot cut taxes ...

... Budget revenues largely depend on the dynamics of the world's energy resources. We are losing competition in the world market, which is more and more focused on innovative sectors, on a new economy - the economy of knowledge and technology ... "

It is a Message from President Vladimir Putin, July 2000. What changed? NOTHING!!!

[Pessimist22]

Stroporez, I do not know if there are still those who believe this blah blah blah?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Pessimist22

Stroporez, I do not know if there are still those who believe this blah blah blah?

Judging by the mendel and comments, there are still many

[Irokez]

Quote: Stroporez

What changed? NOTHING!!!

He who has eyes will see; he who has ears will hear.
Those who do not want to see and hear will not see or hear anything because they live in the past, and the mind is clouded by habits from the past. And to look into the future and the promising and start living in a new way for the good of everyone cannot, because it is scary and very inconvenient to rebuild to a new one from the usual old.
Life is a movement in time forward, and not trampling in time in place or, in general, degradation into the past.
The past will no longer be, and the future is still ahead, so go to what you can get, and not to what will never be returned.
Guys, you philosophize at least a little about life and maybe you will find the right direction in life (advice is free). This also applies to pessimists.
Poetic cartoon:
- oh, nuclear thread
- pessimist and sling cutter
- no logical advice
- criticism as from the State Department

Hmm. But to the point if the State Department criticizes us, then we are going the right way.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Irokez

Poetic cartoon:
- oh, nuclear thread
- pessimist and sling cutter
- no logical advice
- criticism as from the State Department

Hmm. But to the point if the State Department criticizes us, then we are going the right way

It is strange why you attributed the quote of Putin to the agents of the State Department? To be honest, our 125th convoy always expresses concern, along with the laurel, regarding the supporters of the Gasdep, and we have nothing personal against the Indian either.
Compose verses, colleague, cheer up the electorate

[Vadim237]

"The economic weakness of Russia continues to be a serious problem. The growing gap between the advanced states and Russia." - The Russian economy in terms of GDP PPP is the fifth in the world and 11 in terms of nominal GDP out of 197 countries of the world, we have one of the smallest public debt in the world; top 16 countries that produce 60% of world GDP. So everything has changed since 2000.

[Bshkaus]

Well, that's great! Figs with them, the Moon and Mars, we must do what we can.

A savage from the Mumba-Yumba tribe is good at climbing for a banana and covering his bare bottom with a palm leaf.
What about high-tech production? Yes, and "figs with him" - "you need to do what we can"

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Bshkaus

What about high-tech production? Yes, and "figs with him" - "you need to do what we can"

Orbital station and related technologies is it a pig iron in your opinion? Or will it be enough to launch the Soyuz orbital module? Without relying on ITS orbit, the Moon and Mars is a fairy tale from Rogozin.

[Bshkaus]

Without relying on ITS orbit, the Moon and Mars is a fairy tale from Rogozin.

I don’t even comment on Rogozin. The person is out of place.
Tell me, did the Soviet "Venera" relied heavily on orbital stations when entering the interplanetary route?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Bshkaus

Tell me, did the Soviet "Venera" relied heavily on orbital stations when entering the interplanetary route?

Isn't there enough machine guns to shoot into space? Isn't it time to take up machine guns?

[Bshkaus]

Isn't there enough machine guns to shoot into space? Isn't it time to take up machine guns?

To be honest, psychological fatigue from pathological aggression and the desire to "repeat" has already accumulated. Look: You, even in the topic of space, quickly slipped to the machine gun, although it is inappropriate when discussing this issue. "Egoza" is no better: except for Ukraine, there is nothing to say, there is nothing more to say on the merits

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Bshkaus

To be honest, psychological fatigue has already accumulated from pathological aggression and the desire to "repeat"

I'm afraid your "fatigue" is pathological, you are turning a harmless joke into what you know.

[Bshkaus]

I'm afraid your "fatigue" is pathological, you are turning a harmless joke into what you know

I say it as it is, my interests and education go far beyond the narrow topics of "fighting" and crushing the bones of Ukraine

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Bshkaus

I say it as it is, my interests and education go far beyond narrow topics

Okay, to rephrase

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Isn't there enough machine guns to shoot into space?

What is such a great point in launching lightweight machines to the moon or wherever? Isn't it time to seriously explore Outland, albeit without rotten "partners"?

[Genry]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Without support on YOUR orbit Moon and Mars fairy tale

The moon and Mars are nothing more than PR.
Well, supposedly, the Americans flew to the moon - so what? Nothing was added to them and nothing was left ...
Such flights can only comfort you with the presence of a scanty probability of finding artifacts of an alien civilization.

The moon can still be used to pump water out of it, transform it into hydrogen (or other) fuel and then launch further ... But this does not radically simplify flights.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Genry

Well, supposedly, the Americans flew to the moon - so what? Nothing was added to them and nothing was left ...

Well, what is the use of machines on the Moon, Mars, Alpha Centauri?

Quote: Genry

The moon can still be used to pump water out of it and convert it into hydrogen (or other) fuel.

Well, at least about helium 3, do not fence in garbage. And the Moon is needed as an outpost.

[Genry]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Well, what is the use of machines on the Moon, Mars, Alpha Centauri?

You invented the machines yourself, but in the initial period of study they were and will be useful - there is a lot of new ...

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Well, at least about helium 3 do not fence about garbage.

Where did I mention helium-3? The context was about chemical components.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And the Moon is needed as an outpost.

The obvious advantage of the Moon in using it as an observatory is that there is no atmosphere and man-made satellites.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Genry

You invented the machines yourself

No

Quote: Bshkaus

Tell me, the Soviet "Venus" relied heavily on orbital stations

If you are already climbing, then take the trouble to read the comments.

Quote: Genry

Well, at least about helium 3 do not fence about garbage.
Where did I mention helium-3? The context was about chemical components.

Not able to master the text at all? I have it written that you not mention helium-3.

Quote: Genry

The obvious advantage of the Moon in using it as an observatory is that there is no atmosphere and man-made satellites.

The Moon's gravity is 6 times less and it is close to the Earth, and the observatory and the outpost are very different things. To pile up the observatory without creating a base on at least partial self-sufficiency is stupidity, and a base on the Moon is unrealistic without an orbital station near the Earth.

[Genry]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

To pile up the observatory without creating a base on at least partial self-sufficiency is stupidity

Orbital observatories already exist without the Moon - but for their stabilization, orientation and orbit support, gyroscopes, engines are needed ... On the Moon, this is not needed and dimensions ...
Base? For whom what? To serve this base?
Ahhh, are you hinting at these?

Quote: Vladimir_2U

a base on the moon is unrealistic without an orbital station near the Earth.

Well, without the Moon, this is understandable - the collection and start point for long-distance expeditions.

[alexmach]

How do you suggest a savage master this high-tech production? Hungry and bare butt?

[Fan-fan]

Hungry and bare butt?

Not. With clips, flags and a song.

[Vadim237]

High-tech production of what? Russia, and so everything in this regard, produces what is in demand, payback and profit.

[alexmach]

Well, the question was originally about more distant space flights, at least to the Moon and its development and preservation of existing capabilities - this is about orbital stations.

[Vadim237]

Everything depends on money, there will be financing and implementation - now the main direction is the creation of the Soyuz 5 rocket of the Oryol spacecraft and the creation of a super-heavy rocket and all the necessary infrastructure for them - the Angara A5 was made with the help of it it will be possible to launch new modules for the orbital station from the same Plesetsk as half of the problem would be solved, but for deep space its carrying capacity would not be enough.

[alexmach]

It all comes down to money

No, not all. There are also technological possibilities. Take a look at shipbuilding, for example.

[slipped]

Quote: Vadim237

Hangar A5 was made with the help of it it will be possible to withdraw new modules for the orbital station from the same Plesetsk, as it were, half of the problem has been solved, but for deep space its carrying capacity will not be enough.

And so?

[Boris55]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Figs with them, the Moon and Mars, we must do what we can.

Humanity has not yet come up with a compact protection against cosmic radiation, and it is not realistic to launch a spaceship with walls half a meter thick lead into space.

Putin casually hinted that Shoigu should do this. So our station will be!

[voyaka uh]

They came up with it a long time ago. A magnetic field.
Electric generators supporting the field around the stations.
This is home. cost, but technically simple.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: voyaka uh

Electric generators supporting the field around the stations.

Yeah, but where to get electricity? The socket at the Facebook station is rather weak.

[nod739]

How strong should the field be to provide an acceptable level of protection against high energy radiation and solar wind?
And another question: how does such a field affect health? (in civilian professions associated with electrical equipment, professional sick people due to the increased electromagnetic field - more than enough, because there are not the same energies ..)

[Disant]

How strong should the field be to provide an acceptable level of protection against high energy radiation and solar wind?

not lower than on Earth.
we fasten the engine to the planet., because it is not difficult

[nod739]

You forgot about the dimensions ... On the ground, the field is formed by an "electric machine" a little larger than the earth's core. Yes, you can make tension for two orders of magnitude, or even for four, but what's the point? Or do you think that a local field, even for a couple of kilometers, will provide the same level of protection as a terrestrial one? whose dimensions are tens of thousands of kilometers ...

[voyaka uh]

"Will a local field even for a couple of kilometers provide the same level of protection as a terrestrial one?" ///
---
Much more. The earth's field is distributed. Protects the entire planet. Here you only need to cover a few hundred meters. Generator and electromagnets. It is expensive to drag it to the moon, but it is technically possible.
And these are not my fantasies.
Both NASA and SpaceX did calculations and models separately.

[Disant]

Both NASA and SpaceX did calculations and models separately.

they didn't do anything.
if they did, they would not harness the Artemis scam
.
although, if you brainwash, give us half of the billions from Artemis, we would drag you by force to Mars to live. Now the engine would be burned, a terrible hum would be everywhere, and kerosene would be saved up in super barrels on super orbits.
Give the Americans strength and patience. I hold my fists for them - just not to be distracted

[Vadim237]

From this radiation

can protect steel lead beryllium paper composites even aluminum boron alloys plastic RXF1

[vadimtt]

Are you going to deflect neutrons and gamma radiation with an electromagnetic field?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Well, that's great! Figs with them, the Moon and Mars, we must do what we can.

RSC Energia, the operator of the Russian segment of the International Space Station, proposed abandoning further participation in the ISS program and focusing on the creation of a Russian space station. It was noted that the further operation of the ISS will lead to huge expenses for maintaining the technical condition due to the deterioration of the modules.

This is all good, but our "irreplaceable and loyal partners", read the United States, can give us a dead pig here too - to refuse to support the ISS earlier than Russia and instead of expanding the ISS with Russian modules, the entire ISS will have to be repaired and patched! And they can do it like two fingers ...!

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Starover_Z

refuse to support the ISS earlier than Russia

And Russia was nailed to the ISS, or what?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

And Russia was nailed to the ISS, or what?

Not nailed, yes, you can give up on the ISS and start building your own orbital. And for what anniversary of cosmonautics it will be ready "from scratch"?

Earlier, Roskosmos said that the ISS will expire in 2024, but Russia intends to agree on its extension until 2030. According to Roskosmos plans, the Nauka modules, nodal and scientific-energy modules should go to the ISS. Retrofitting the Russian segment of the ISS with these modules within three years will make it completely independent from the rest of the station, which may lead to the creation of a new orbital station on its basis.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Starover_Z

"Science", nodal and scientific-energy modules.

In general, the docking of these modules to the ISS, I think, is aimed at running them in, before undocking into free flight. So it's not worth wringing your hands.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

In general, the docking of these modules to the ISS, I think, is aimed at running them in, before undocking into free flight. So it's not worth wringing your hands.

So I'm writing about that - will the Americans agree to spend money on the ISS, since they are aiming at the lunar orbital and surface stations? Will we have a spare time before the complete assembly of our MIR-2?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Starover_Z

So I'm writing about that - will the Americans agree to spend money on the ISS, since they are aiming at the lunar orbital and surface stations

Do not get hung up on mattress toppers, running in can be neglected, immediately assemble your modules into your station. Just less safety and comfort.

[Jaromir]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Well, cool!

Indeed, we should not arrange "catch-up", but do exactly what we are able to do.

[Sewer krainiy]

Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
Today, 08: 10
+9
Well, that's great! Figs with them, the Moon and Mars, we must do what we can.

Why do we know how - we need to do what we need to do. So, for reflection and discussion, the benefits of exploring the moon ... well, quite problematic. From Mars - I think it's quite funny. Sawing finance somewhere, someone, somehow ... My opinion. We decided on priorities in space ... Well, time will judge ...

[tanki tanks]

I don't quite agree with you. An own orbital station is necessary, but now we are talking more about Mars, especially since this is a matter of honor for Russia.

[anclevalico]

Do we know how? The Science module raises doubts.

[andr327]

Star has become and I don't understand: will we make our own completely, or will we then discard everything alien from the ISS?
Yes, I missed some breakthrough technologies: unlimited application period?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: andr327

Yes, I missed some breakthrough technologies: unlimited application period?

But what is difficult, some kind of special support module will not be and that's it, bring out new ones and join, and the obsolete memento mori instantly into the sea.

[Wedmak]

This is the question of design. We don't even have a project for a new station ... which means that we will need some basic building blocks + unique ones for a narrow range of tasks. That is, it will be designed for another 5 years, then built, then withdrawn.

[Woodman]

Quote: Wedmak

We don't even have a project for a new station ...

But this is far from a fact. The project may exist, and not even one. Just what was the point in telling us, the townsfolk, about such projects, if there was no decision about their implementation? So that we are here to discuss "we can or cannot and if we can, then why not do it"?

[Wedmak]

What was the point of telling us, the townsfolk, about such projects?

Well ... that didn't stop the designers of aircraft carriers and destroyers. And here, as it were, even a semi-civilian object, maybe we will even carry tourists there. And they made a whole video about the same Nuclon, but this is a more breakthrough decision than the next COP.

[Reviews]

Quote: andr327

from the ISS then discard everything alien?

There are not so many of ours.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: andr327

Star has become and I don't understand: will we make our own completely, or will we then discard everything alien from the ISS?
Yes, I missed some breakthrough technologies: unlimited application period?

You should not take this statement seriously, all these promises have already been made, like many others.

[slipped]

Quote: Stroporez

You should not take this statement seriously, all these promises have already been, like many others.

Both programs were postponed for two years. Luna-25, due to the unavailability of the station, according to the test results of the SCU at that moment - flies already this year into a new astronomical window, ExoMars-2022 - next year, also into a new astronomical window, since Europe did not have time to go back (2020) make your part of the project.

[donavi49]

from the ISS then discard everything alien?

The pier will be heated already in the summer.

Dawn and Destiny are impossible to disentangle in practice. They are tightly bound and will drown together.

The star is worn out, leaking, but has engines for maintaining orbit and maneuvering. from space debris.

Search and Dawn - sink together with the station. They are made for her and are not needed, and it is also difficult, expensive, unnecessary to drag them away.

So in the end, of the useful there is only Science, if it flies. And the rest is already being absent from the cemetery.

[ultra]

Open architecture is the guarantee of an unlimited service life.

[slipped]

Quote: ultra

Open architecture is the guarantee of an unlimited service life.

And so it is planned. Everything is built around the node module.

[Wedmak]

All this, of course, is super: the station, and the Dnieper, and the Angara, and other projects ... if only they hadn't stolen by the millions, but they met the deadlines.

[TerraSandera]

So they don't steal by the millions). In rubles for a long time in billions)

[Uncle lee]

lead to the creation on its basis of a new orbital station.

the launch of a new station.

I still do not understand - a new station, from scratch, or based on the old one?

[Ren]

Quote from Uncle Lee

I still do not understand - a new station, from scratch, or based on the old one?

Based on MLM Nauka, the launch is scheduled for this summer.
https://habr.com/ru/news/t/551812/

[Popandos]

Oh my heart senses that you need to add at least five more years to the announced dates and no less

[donavi49]

As a result, they won't even have time to use Science, so they will mothball it. Maybe she's already at the new station? There will be no sense from it for 2-3 years on the ISS.

[rocket757]

"The decision has been made": Russia will build its own orbital station

Now the question is ... when? Plans are one thing, their real embodiment is a separate topic.

[TerraSandera]

I did not understand, they want to create a new one or still extend their participation in the ISS, add a couple of three modules there, and then when the ISS will be decommissioned, they will be detached and there will be its own station?

[Reviews]

further operation of the ISS will lead to huge expenses for maintaining the technical condition due to the deterioration of the modules

Interestingly, and anya there, in general, in the course of what a "module"?

[TerraSandera]

Honestly, it's strange to hear about the expensive content of the current, which is actually somehow divided into several countries + tickets for other astronauts, but at the same time it is profitable to build your own. It's not even a question of whether we can pull it. Over time, they could. But the logic itself is strange.

[aybolyt678]

Right! you need to develop your own, and do not feed freeloaders with information. You need to be self-sufficient. All this collaboration is actually a dirty competition for brains, information and energy.

[donavi49]

Ekkak you have attached the Russian segment. Where 3,5 serious experiments per year and then using international facilities. But through participation, they suddenly get data about what they are doing on the ISS and the results of their experiments. Not always. Not all. But they do.

[Holuay T.O]

To begin with, put things in order in the CPC, they fly there by pull, and are enrolled in the squad, although frankly speaking, the best do not go there.
There is a mess in Star City, dirt, remove from there the administration appointed by the governor of the Moscow Region

[lucul]

To begin with, put things in order in the CPC, they fly there by pull, and are enrolled in the squad, although frankly speaking, the best do not go there.
There is a mess in Star City, dirt, remove from there the administration appointed by the governor of the Moscow Region

Don't worry, you said there will be a station, so there will be.)))
This station has, first of all, military significance, and then everything else, so they will not pull rubber.

[Holuay T.O]

I will not touch the military part of the program, I'm glad for it, the Yankees are directly on the ISS military TESTS on missile defense are carried out, I note only regret that ours do not steal, apparently there on the ISS, calculations from the United States, but they need a Mathematician at the station with a scanning device and an FSB agent to recruit a military astronaut right at the station
But I will criticize the civilian unit! There is not a single sane program ...

[donavi49]

I wonder what military significance the Station can have today? Intelligence service? So she has been on satellites for a long time. A small, cheap VordViev has been flying for 10 years, does not ask for food, takes pictures of everything that is interesting. Well, no one will show what cameras and radars the military has. However, it is not for nothing that they display them on the Deltas and the weight there is like that of 5-6 WorldView-2.

Here are two pictures of one event:

And https://twitter.com/KudSverchkov from ISS

What's next? Space Marine companies that will land in Washington at Hour and take over control of the strategic nuclear forces while the victorious Russian army passes through Europe and the United States with a steel fist?

Rocket base? To, if anything, bang right from orbit across Washington? So, too, the ISS is not needed, it is enough to build a support platform with a propulsion system and dock KosmosXXXX there.

Lasers, blasters and stuff? So again, people are superfluous, it is better to stuff the reactor and the battery.

[lucul]

I wonder what military significance the Station can have today?

You are so interesting))))
For the operation of the radar, energy is needed, the satellite cannot provide it (there are too few solar panels), but the station can provide a lot of energy for the radar, there are enough solar panels)))
Target designation is its main military function.

[donavi49]

New news every day. It turns out that satellites can no longer provide energy for devices.

More than a hundred really flying satellites from small to 5 + ton class are now, well, yes, yes, we went to the Pacific Ocean .

The second - if anything, these giant solar panels, generation stations - were built by NASA and JAXA. The Russian generation is marked with circles. Actually, even now, American-Japanese electricity is used in the Russian segment.

Third, target designation is extremely difficult, 1 orbit, with minimal correction possibility. At the same time, you can take out a dozen satellites and cover half of the balloon, plus actively maneuver, like, if necessary, we will burn fuel in a week as in a year. The satellites are small now, the main thing is to be there. Vaughn Electron launched the Strix 150kg radar nanosatellite and it is still flying, giving target designation and reconnaissance.

And then there is the Capella - there is a different technology with a large sliding mirror 50x50 cm in a pixel, in any weather. They even brazenly fotali the palace in Gelendzhik. Well, for comparison, Suez - to be higher. And this makes a satellite of 120 kg and a life span of 5-7 years. What makes a satellite in 5 tons you can only guess.

Well, and most importantly, under the conditions of a special period, the station will die first. It is very easy to knock her down. Large, low-maneuverable, in low orbit. Once and for all. A dozen of CU satellites - which can still maneuver, are small themselves, it is difficult to shoot down.

[lucul]

New news every day. It turns out that satellites can no longer provide energy for devices.

Ask how much energy is needed for the radar)))

[vadimtt]

And it is no longer fashionable to charge a battery of class 11S for 7-8 hours and then spit out a couple of megawatts in a 2-3-minute window?

[Galleon]

Meanwhile, "The construction of the high-rise section of the Russian space center in Moscow has begun."
Then they will also transfer this building to the ownership of a foreign offshore, like all Moscow airports - and you can retire. And "orbital stations" are for dreamer readers.
I think we need to understand one thing: Roscosmos will name more and more new plans in order to divert attention from unfulfilled previous plans and statements. It is no longer necessary to expect other activities from him. That was not why such a leader was appointed. Flights would be needed - the designer would be in charge.

[lucul]

Then they will transfer this building to the ownership of a foreign offshore company,

Don't worry - Holland, as an offshore company has already fallen, the rest will soon fall too)))

[Galleon]

I'm not worried. Anyone who lives from paycheck to paycheck is as calm as a python. But offshore companies will not go anywhere - they are part of the world system, all these Cyprus, the Cayman Islands, etc. Both financial and criminal law enforcement. Someone transfers money there, someone takes this activity under their own cap ... Vanity of vanities. And we are calm.

[lucul]

But offshore companies will not go anywhere - they are part of the world system, all these Cyprus, the Cayman Islands, etc.

Russia has introduced double taxation with the Netherlands, and will introduce it with other offshore companies.
Do you know what double taxation is? )

[Galleon]

Quote: lucul

Do you know what double taxation is? )

I have a different course, aside from double taxation. In my course, you do not need this knowledge and you do not need to go to work in a suit and shirt and tie.

Quote: lucul

will introduce with other offshores

Will not enter. They won't let you enter. I am impressed by your conviction in a bright future, I even envy this bliss of reason a little, but I cannot share it.
Vitaly, not mine, compensated as best he could.

[lucul]

Will not enter. They won't let you enter. I am impressed by your conviction in a bright future, I even envy this bliss of reason a little, but I cannot share it.

But why ?
They closed it with Cyprus, closed it with Malta, closed it with Luxembourg, closed it with Holland, and all the rest are next.
If I wrote this in 2000, I would be laughed at like crazy, but it took a little time ... and voila it happened.
Therefore, my belief is just a description of the effects, because the effects always flow from the cause.

[Galleon]

Nevertheless, Moscow Parking Space, for example, is an offshore company and everyone knows about it. How long does it take for money for parking in the capital to remain in the country?

[lucul]

Nevertheless, Moscow Parking Space, for example, is an offshore company and everyone knows about it. How long does it take for money for parking in the capital to remain in the country?

So we'll see how long it takes.

[Roman 57 rus]

Good luck!!

[Simon schempp]

According to RSC Energia's plans, commissioning of the station should begin after 2024.

Something I'm confused. Will the station be built before Russia overtakes Portugal or after?

[lucul]

Will the station be built before Russia overtakes Portugal or after?

And what, that Portugal, has such to overtake it?
Or are you talking about the amount of paper trash?

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

Well, yes, there is no oil, no gas, the atheists are stocking up on paper waste there.

[Million]

And who will build it? Rogozin and guest workers?
Zhiguli cannot do it normally for 50 years, but here they swung into space ..

[lucul]

And who will build it? Rogozin and guest workers?
Zhiguli cannot do it normally for 50 years, but here they swung into space ..

How is it, in Israel, a vaccine for Covid-19 has already been invented, or not yet? )))

[ultra]

Lada has not been made for a long time.

[Ural resident]

I just do not understand why this station is now? All the possibilities of a person's stay in near-earth orbit have already worked out in previous years, scientific projects are not being carried out even on the ISS. Other tasks are solved by the equipment. The advanced countries are eager to explore the Moon and Mars, and maintaining the station means taking away funding for other space projects. Well, except that this station is planned as a starting base for long-distance expeditions. Someone once talked about a permanent station around the moon? ..

[Klingon]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: Vol4ara

Up to 83? Yeah, success, it is more likely that he will either die or live in insanity

That is, do you think that after eighty insanity is inevitable?

not insanity, but senile Dementia. - Insanity is a wasting metabolic disease in children

[xorek]

Russia will build its own orbital station

Finally ! Oh, now howl will rise in the liberal media ..))))
It's expensive, of course, but I think it will pay off a hundredfold .. We have everything for this!
Well, God bless the designer-engineers and the whole of Russia .. Enough for the Amers to work in the wings. It's time to know the honor! Good news, I've been waiting for something like this for a long time ..

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

Great joy, celebrate Russian and cold in the evening. Overturn the second for the collapse of the demonic dollar necessarily.

[Jaromir]

Quote: Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)

Great joy, celebrate Russian and cold in the evening. Overturn the second for the collapse of the demonic dollar necessarily.

We will definitely do so. Third for liberals and Westerners

[Jaromir]

Quote: xorek

Eh now howl will rise in the liberal media

Let them howl. They have already raised a howl

[Graduate student]

They are tired of their howl. All of them are not so and not that way.

[Zaurbek]

... and a small shuttle

[K-50]

If another nuclear reactor from the "tug" is delivered, then the energy will simply be heaps. And then too large fields from solar panels. Leave them a little just in case, otherwise they only get in the way, and it is more difficult to perform garbage evasion maneuvers.

[vadimtt]

Garbage must be shot down ...
You can't find enough fuel for a multi-ton colossus;

[Esaul]

Until 2024, cartoons about the new station will be shown, and after the re-election of the Solntselik, it will suddenly turn out that this is not a space station at all, but a new iotaphone, and not Russian, but Chinese.

[Knell wardenheart]

The news is controversial. On the one hand, you need to have your own, on the other, the question arises - will we pull it? Will not our space freeze in yesterday's day without the stunted, but remnants of international cooperation? And finally - will these expenses cut off our projects in other space regions - the Moon, Phobos, the same long-suffering one, possibly Mars and, of course, Nuclone.

[Bradley]

"The decision has been made": Russia will build its own orbital station

What decision did you make about the money? Or will the station itself materialize in orbit?
The construction and maintenance of the station is not cheap. And besides, we have all the "solutions" on space in a vacuum.

[nod739]

There was a "clipper" ... It was heard from the media:
We need so much money and 2-3 years ... A few years later it was pompous again "we need a little financing, and 2-3 years"
Then, too much with the "federation" ... A little money and 2-3 years ..
Today, with the orbital station, this is the most ...
...
And the money was allocated, somewhere more, somewhere less, but allocated ...

[Konnick]

Now there are so-called startups, a gamble, it is not clear what it is based on. I am subscribed to Head Hunter, job search, there is such a description of firms looking for designers, i.e. managers were recruited, now they are looking for performers look for ... for 4 soldo.

[Vadim237]

Clipper had problems with thermal protection, they were not solved and the project was turned down, perhaps its groundwork will be used in a new unmanned spacecraft, which NPO Molniya is now engaged in.

[Mishka78]

Quote: Stroporez

This is President Vladimir Putin's Address, July 2000. What changed? NOTHING!!!

https://www.rbc.ru/technology_and_media/13/04/2021/607478fc9a794731d03611ab?from=from_main_1
"Russia remains an inconspicuous participant in the global market for advanced production technologies and, moreover, runs the risk of 'falling behind forever' from the technological leaders."

I would love to be proud of our country. Not only her past victories and achievements, but also modern and promising ones. Unfortunately, there are none.
Yes, nuclear and weapons technologies have not been fucked up yet, but everything else is disheartening.

[the same doctor]

Whatever success we have achieved, but "... a noticeable participant in the global market for advanced production technologies ..." we will never become. The West dumped, but did not accept our missile launches. People are dying from covid, but the West does not take our vaccine. In the same way, our high-tech goods will not be taken, and technologies will be stolen, but not bought. We do not need to strive for export, but to develop these technologies for ourselves and for ourselves. Why do we need dollar exports if we can produce everything ourselves? And what we cannot do, because of the sanctions, we will not be sold anyway, we will have to master our production.

[yehat2]

It won't work. Rogozin forgot to include a strategic trampoline range in the plan.
How are we going to launch cargo into orbit? Our proven cargo rockets literally all come with defects and cannot ensure the creation of the station. The search for the extreme gave a group of scapegoats, but did not change the result of the work. There are trampolines, but they are not in the plans.

[lubesky]

Yesterday I watched a concert on the launch pad of the cosmodrome. In addition to the inappropriate performance in the evening program of Garmash and Bezrukov, nevertheless, incorruptible works entered the soul, I recalled past achievements and real breakthroughs - progress, my devoted Motherland. What are the achievements of the Party and the people! And how sad this "imitation" and decoration in the form of a concert looked against the background of the former greatness. At the start of the once great achievements (which we, I am sure, would still be capable of, if it would interfere), great achievements - the whole world looked with bated breath at the first man in space. And all this was done in such a short time by the Power that in 45, colossal human losses lay in ruins, burned by Luftwaffe bombs! I noticed my mother, against the background of the final concert, in the light of a cheap (in content, not in the picture) laser light show - look mom, we are living witnesses of how, in a light show, a rocket of our dreams, the dreams of the Soviet people, are launched into nowhere, and we are nothing we will not see anymore, except for cartoons - this concert was for me a farewell of long-suffering Russia with real space and the future ... And as the launch pad plunged into darkness by the end of the show, so the space future disappeared in the darkness of power ... At the very end I wanted to say - forgive Yura, forgive the great ancestors - we have lost everything ...

[the same doctor]

Judging by the "Science" module, we cannot build a station. It is necessary to change the strategy and I know how. But who will listen to me ?!

[ccsr]

This is the most useful project in our manned astronautics, which will bring us scientific benefits and will partially pay off through visits to the station by foreign cosmonauts. All other whims with Mars and the Moon should be stopped and left only for sending automatic stations there, and even then not to squander the extra money. You can just use our hackers to steal other people's results - so it will cost us cheaper.

[Peaceful SEO]

It's high time to make your own

[NF68]

It has long been necessary to do this.

[A.TOR]

Reading this discussion is strange and somehow, I would say ... dumb (so they say?)
Today Russia has neither the tasks that its own orbital station can solve, nor the funds for it, nor the ability to develop and create it.
First of all, it is necessary to understand and define what we (in the USSR) called "the use of outer space in order to solve national economic problems." There is nothing else for Russia in space now and in the future 10-15 years.
Looking back at America is stupid and strange: she - America - is at a completely different level of understanding of its goals and objectives related to space. There - in America - space has long been an application of the efforts of private business; this is a completely different state of the economy and a different goal setting.
Not some "state interests", but the use of private capital with a rather short-lived and extremely pragmatic prospect of making a profit.
This is a completely different state.
In the part of the STUDY of space, they are so far ahead of all mankind that all sorts of nonsense about "" primacy and so on. are no longer considered.
The era of "we are the first !!" for the United States is over, now "just business."

[Snusmumrik]

So that's great. Better to have your own station in space than an aircraft carrier)))

[N3onMiami]

I'm embarrassed to ask, what kind of shishi will the ROS be built on?
And how much money will it be supported?
The ISS is very expensive and, according to 2013 data, we spent $ 1 billion annually on servicing our station segment. Segment. This is not to mention the fact that all the ROC will have to be done and maintained alone.

[evgen1221]

Want is not harmful. And the replenishment of the replacement of cadres of scientists and workers and other component of this wishlist is available?

[certero]

Instead of robots to Mars, instead of reconnaissance of distant planets, instead of an orbiting telescope, instead of flying to where no one has ever flown, we will build an orbital station. Nehera?

[UA3QHP]

Quote: certero

instead of flying to where no one else has flown, we will build an orbital station.

So, for flights to where no one has flown yet, and an orbital shipyard station is needed. for the assembly of interplanetary spacecraft according to a multi-launch scheme. The super-heavy single-start circuit is a dead end.

[Nirvanko]

In 30 years it will be built with the same amount of funding. Simple satellites are taken out for 6 years.

[well]

Another space fairy tale

[Revival]

"Russia will build its own orbital station."

I understand that right after the "federation eagle" ...?
With the proceeds from the supply of helium from lunar bases and tomato greenhouses on Mars, uh ...

Nothing right now These plans will be trampled from the TV before the elections !!!!

[pexotinec]

Why then re-equip the ISS with new modules? This is money down the drain if the service life is 2025

[ruivit1988]

Well what can I say, before every year they promised us to start building an aircraft carrier, then they talked about building a destroyer with an aircraft carrier. After that, it seemed to the people a little and they began to tell us about the construction of an aircraft carrier, destroyer and spaceship, the federation then came up with the name of a new eagle. Well, now they have taken the bar higher, they promise us to build a super super aircraft carrier, a destroyer, a spaceship, a nuclear space tug, a space station and a flight to the moon is true, the station is automatic. Well, that's fine too. In general, we are happy, comrades, we are happy for the achievements of domestic PR. So in ten years, maybe twenty, we will be told about the construction of a domestic aircraft carrier, destroyer, spacecraft, space tug, station and even a spaceship that will fly to Alpha Centauri. So we are waiting for new stories.

[certero]

Quote: Ua3qhp

So, for flights to where no one has flown yet, and an orbital shipyard station is needed. to assemble interplanetary spacecraft

You know, I also read 12 chairs.
Let's start with Roscosmos sending at least a lunar rover. And then we'll talk about the assembly of interplanetary ships in orbit.

[Graduate student]

Russia will build its own orbital station

Right. It is high time.

[flateric]

it remains to understand how the Chinese space station in the picture has to do with the article