Military Review

Battle of Austerlitz: battle in the center and on the right flank of the Allied army

194
Battle of Austerlitz: battle in the center and on the right flank of the Allied army
Austro-Russian headquarters in 1805. Artist Giuseppe Rava


The cavalry guard is short-lived,
And because he is so sweet.
The pipe is blowing, the canopy is thrown back,
And somewhere the ringing of sabers is heard ...
Vain peaceful fun
trying to extend, laughing.
Do not get reliable fame,
until the blood was shed ...
Cross wooden il cast iron
assigned to us in the coming darkness ...
Do not promise young maiden
eternal love on earth!

Words by Bulat Okudzhava. Music by Isaac Schwartz

Greatest battles in stories. The general picture of those dramatic events in the Austerlitz field in time is as follows:

04:00 - the shelves began to occupy the prescribed location
08:30 - the Allied army drove the French out of the village of Sokolnits
09:00 - Marshal Soult starts the attack in the center
09:20 - Allied army occupied the village of Telnits
10:00 - Marshal Davout counterattacks Buxgewden's troops on the right flank
12:00 - the center of the allied army is defeated, the Prazen Heights are completely in the hands of the French
14:30 - Allied army is defeated and retreats from the battlefield.


Map of the disposition of troops during the battle

Lieutenant General Langeron - a French aristocrat in the Russian service, later recalled that things went wrong from the very beginning. The troops were mixed, and the generals had to look for their regiments at night. Although it was a full moon, the sky was overcast and the light of the moon was of little help. Only by 10 or even 11 o'clock the columns could somehow line up and start moving. At the same time, the columns often crossed - "an unforgivable mistake for ... the most unfit staff officer." The meeting of the commanders of the columns began at 10 o'clock in the evening. It was announced that the exit of the columns will begin at 7 o'clock in the morning. Kutuzov slept at the council (or pretended to be asleep), but at the end of the meeting he woke up and ordered to translate the text of the disposition into Russian. Langeron later said that he received his copy only at 8 o'clock in the morning, only after the unit led by him had already performed.


"Panoramic view of the battle of Austerlitz on December 2, 1805" from the side of the French army. Jean-Antoine-Simeon Fort (1793-1861). In the center of the Santon hill

At 8 o'clock in the morning, a bright sun shone over the battlefield - the "sun of Austerlitz", dispersed the fog, and the battle began.


"Panoramic view of the battle of Austerlitz on December 2, 1805". Jean-Antoine-Simeon Fort (1793-1861). View from the hill at the chapel of St. Antonia, where Napoleon was with his headquarters

On the right flank, Bagration, with his 9000 infantry soldiers and 3000 cavalrymen with 40 guns, began an attack at exactly 8:00 and occupied Golubits and Krug. Whereas the Russian imperial guard under the command of vl. Grand Duke Constantine, moving forward, reached a height above the village of Blazovits.


Prince Bagration on the field of Austerlitz. A still from the film "War and Peace" by S. Bondarchuk

In the center, Liechtenstein's cavalry was not where it should be, which is why Langeron and Przhibyshevsky lost an hour and were unable to strike Davout's units in time. As a result, the center was occupied by the fourth column of Miloradovich and Kolovrat, which was commanded by Kutuzov himself. The sovereign-emperor was also here with his retinue.


The 3rd French Line Infantry Regiment defends Telnits. Fig. Christa Hook

A fierce battle raged on the left flank. Austrian regiments of Kienmeier (4000 infantry, 1 cavalry and 12 guns) launched an offensive on the village of Telnits. Then the horsemen of Liechtenstein came to his aid. Dokhturov's column followed. Lanzheron and Przhebyshevsky attacked Sokolnits, although they were very much disturbed by the fog that thickened in the lowlands and became even thicker from the smoke of the shots. Count Buxgewden commanded the entire left flank of the allied army. He had at his disposal three columns at once, and he had a clear advantage over Davout's troops, but ... he did not manage to realize it, although he managed to capture the villages of Telnits and Sokolnits. In the fog, some French units began shooting at others, there was confusion, and this could be used. However, Buxgewden kept four infantry regiments in reserve and did not take advantage of the situation (thick fog). As a result, the French managed to regroup, and then at 9:00 to start a counterattack.


French troops in the fog go to the Prazen Heights. A still from the film "War and Peace" by S. Bondarchuk

Then Langeron began to realize that "something is wrong here." He went to Major General Count Kamensky 1st, who was attacked by Marshal Soult's units from the rear, although he was moving in the tail of the 2nd column. Lanzheron decided to withdraw part of his troops to the Pratsen plateau. But while he was driving back and forth, clarifying the situation, the French in Sokolnitsa, in turn, launched an attack, and he failed to do this.

The troops of the fourth column also began to descend from the Prazen Heights to attack Kobelnits at 8:30. At the same time, parts of Miloradovich literally "dived into the fog", which covered the entire lowland in front of the heights. But the sun drove away the fog. And suddenly, quite unexpectedly, units of Marshal Soult appeared right in front of them, preparing for an attack. The French fired a volley and rushed to the attack. The infantry regiments of Novgorod and Apsheronsky were defeated right in front of Emperor Alexander. Major Generals Repninsky 2nd and Berg 1st were taken prisoner.

Following the units of Miloradovich, the Austrians moved, but the French hit them with bayonets and were able to overturn. The Austrian infantry began an indiscriminate retreat, and they dragged along with them the battalion of the Izmailovsky Life Guards Regiment, sent at the request of Kutuzov by the Grand Duke Constantine to help his troops. All the artillery of the Austrians in this sector of the front was in the hands of the French, and Alexander was almost captured. It got to the point that Prince Volkonsky and General Weyrother were forced to personally lead the confused soldiers into the attacks. But at the beginning of the battle, Miloradovich tried to be in front of the tsar all the time, which struck many, although he did not give any practical orders.


The feat of the Cavalry Regiment in the Battle of Austerlitz in 1805. Capture by horse guardsmen of the French battalion banner of the 4th line regiment. Bogdan (Gottfried) Villevalde (1818-1903). St. Petersburg Museum of Artillery and Signal Corps

It was already 11:00, but the Russian troops were still holding on to the plateau. And even more than that, they tried to counterattack the French, albeit unsuccessfully. So, General Thiebaud, for example, ordered to place the six 12-pounder cannons he received behind the formation of his infantry and load ... with cannonballs and buckshot at the same time. When he was told that it could damage them, he replied that after ten minutes of such shooting, nothing would be done to them. They were ordered to shoot from a distance of 15–20 tuaz (30–40 m), and aim at the belt buckle. Near each gun, ten canister shots and ten cannonballs were stacked to load as quickly as possible.


Prince Andrew is leading the infantry to attack! A still from the film "War and Peace" by S. Bondarchuk

When the Russian soldiers approached, the French infantry parted, and these guns opened fire, mowing entire glades in their ranks at once. So the French managed to stay on the plateau, and then squeeze out the remnants of the Allied troops from it. Kutuzov was wounded by a bullet in the cheek, and his son-in-law, the aide-de-camp of Emperor Alexander I, Count F.I. Tizengauzen, died trying to stop the fleeing soldiers, as did the Austrian general Yurchik.


And this is also Prince Andrey, only from the 2007 series!

Thiebaud also ordered the soldiers to use rifles with bayonets attached and not leave "anyone behind them", since even wounded Russian soldiers often shot French soldiers passing by them in the back.

Thus, the center of the allied army was completely destroyed and retreated in disarray. However, Napoleon was still far from complete victory, because here the Grand Duke Constantine moved his guards regiments into the attack.


The Russian guard goes on the attack. A still from the film "War and Peace" by S. Bondarchuk

However, they were also stopped by the frequent fire of the French infantry and were unable to break through its lines. Moreover, they were surrounded by French cavalry and found themselves in a very difficult position. And then Konstantin decided to bring into battle the guards cavalry - cavalry guards and the Life Guards Cavalry Regiment.


Equestrian portrait of General J. Rapp. Jean-Jacques Lagrenet (1739-1821). Unterlinden Museum, Colmar, Alsace, France

The French infantry lined up in squares and met the line of the Horse Guards with bayonets and point-blank shots, but could not withstand their blow and began to scatter. Napoleon, seeing the difficult situation of his infantry, in turn moved forward the mounted grenadiers, the mounted guards rangers, and then the Mameluk cavalry under the command of General Rapp.

And, of course, the young horse guards from the most noble Russian families were brave, loyal to their emperor and ready for self-sacrifice. However, they ... did not have any combat experience, which cannot be acquired on the Tsarskoye Selo parade ground. And the French turned out to be more, and they were more experienced ...

The French were seasoned warriors, participants in many campaigns, which, moreover, took place in the Camp of Boulogne, where the infantry learned to shoot perfectly, and the horsemen learned a variety of techniques of combat vaulting. Whereas for most of the Horse Guards, this was their first and last battle in their life! So, noticing the approaching French cavalry, the Russian cavalry hastened to line up to meet the enemy. But instead of rushing to meet him, the cavalry guards for some reason accepted him, standing still. And, of course, their first ranks were swept away by the blow of the heavy French cavalry, which gained acceleration. By the way, the cuirass of the cavalry guards (unlike the French) did not have. And this also played a negative role ...


"Napoleon at Austerlitz". General Jean Rapp (center), after the sacrificial attack of the Russian cavalry guards, presents to Napoleon the captured Prince Nikolai Repnin-Volkonsky (left in a white uniform). Behind him, the Napoleonic Mamelukes carry trophy banners. Francois Gerard (1770-1837). Versailles

The first attack of the Horse Guards was followed by the second, in which the Life Cossacks also took part.

However, this attack was not successful either. Colonel Prince Repnin and several officers were captured, the regiment lost many lower ranks (226 - killed, wounded and missing) and lost more than 300 horses. Bernadotte's French infantry then took Krenovitz and Austerlitz, abandoned by the allies.

To be continued ...
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  1. sds555
    sds555 April 18 2021 04: 53
    +7
    Thanks for the work done, very interesting hi
  2. Catfish
    Catfish April 18 2021 04: 56
    +13
    Good morning friends!
    Vyacheslav, as always, thanks. smile
    In general, the story is quite well-known and it turned out to be new for me that once they managed to shoot a series as well. And the Bondarchuk epic was once called "Bondarchuk raged."
    In the film, Strzhelchik was good in the role of Napoleon.
  3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka April 18 2021 05: 05
    +12
    A sad page in history, a sad chronology of events, but worthy of writing and remembering about it!
    Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich. The cycle really lived up to the expectation. Images from books, films and paintings by artists: sleeping Mikhail Illarionovich, Russian "Murat" and poser Miloradovich, hot and at the same time severe Bagration and Emperor Alexander whose will led them and thousands of souls to death.
    Alexander received a slap in the face at Austerlitz, but we must give him his due "no longer personally led an army into battle, but was the ruler of those who crushed France."
    1. kalibr
      April 18 2021 06: 25
      +10
      Yes, Vladislav: then we are all writing one material about the epoch-making battles, we squeeze it to the limit ... And here we came across interesting books, different points of view, and there was an opportunity to paint all this. It became interesting to myself ...
      1. Alien From
        Alien From April 18 2021 09: 19
        +6
        Thanks to the author hi I was lucky to grow up next to Borodino, so your articles are especially interesting!)
  4. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 18 2021 06: 47
    +9
    And the guard did not save.
    What chaos can be with a crowd of people. Even in peacetime.
    1. kalibr
      April 18 2021 06: 56
      +11
      There will be material on the left flank. There you read about the even more terrible consequences of chaos ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 18 2021 06: 59
        +9
        Your story brings to mind physics: the speed and mass of the French cavalry. Strength in motion.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 18 2021 08: 07
          +8
          Hello, Sergey. hi
          In this case, it was not only this, but the mediocre command of our horse guards. Such an attack, competently met, would have led to the defeat of the attackers, but here it turned out the other way around. Olegych writes about the lack of experience of the Horse Guards, this is understandable, but why the hell for ordinary soldiers to have experience in formation before an enemy attack, this is the business of the commanders, but their commanders turned out to be illiterate. request
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 April 18 2021 08: 37
            +5
            Hi Constantine!

            So it turns out that not only physical bodies, not only figures on the chessboard, but people with their own lives.

            For some reason, I am keenly imagining how a system that could have been organized turns into a chaotic one.
            And then I want to use the word "entropy". Even though I don't really like him.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 18 2021 09: 11
              +5
              "The seven nannies have a child without an eye" - neither Alexander nor Franz had anything to do there, without them it may have been possible to do something, although the Austrians, of course, are fighters.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 11: 12
                +5
                After Mac was defeated, the situation was already difficult.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish April 18 2021 11: 20
                  +5
                  With Napoleon, all the situations were difficult, that's why he and Napoleon. request
                2. Ryazan87
                  Ryazan87 April 18 2021 13: 40
                  +5
                  Kutuzov perfectly got out of a difficult situation: his march-maneuver is a classic. And how he deceived Murat is pure delight. However, he will deceive the unlucky Gascon one more time on the way to Ryazan.
                  Actually, Mikhailo Illarionovich understood Napoleon well. Let him command the war on his own - everything would have ended in 1805. Moreover, he tried to correct the situation at Austerlitz, which is why, by the way, he removed the command from himself. He was very good at ignoring stupid plans and orders. Whenever the Emperor himself did not climb in, everything would end in an indecisive outcome or Napoleon's victory "on points", which in the context of the general course of the war would be disastrous for the French.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 April 18 2021 14: 57
                    +4
                    By the way, with each new reading of War and Peace, I look more and more at Kutuzov as a man. Realizing that, not the ultimate truth.
                  2. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ April 18 2021 19: 46
                    +2
                    And how he deceived Murat is pure delight. However, he will deceive the unlucky Gascon one more time on the way to Ryazan.

                    Well, what is Murat Gascon - he is the king of Naples. With his Tarutino maneuver, Kutuzov immediately after the current Chulkov left the Ryazan road in three columns to the south, and Murat followed the Cossack patrols right up to Bronnitsy. And the Russian army disappeared.
                    1. Ryazan87
                      Ryazan87 April 18 2021 22: 52
                      +3
                      Well, what is Murat Gascon - he is the king of Naples.

                      How what) Thoroughbred - Department of Lot, the village of Labastide-Fortuneer.
                      However, Murat clearly did not want to fight in the 1812 campaign, either he was tired, or he simply felt that everything would end badly.
    2. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 April 18 2021 13: 36
      +5
      The Russian Guard in the 1805 campaign of the year showed itself rather badly as a fighting force. This is not surprising, given the fact that she has not really fought since the times of Peter the Great. The combat training was poor, and the commanders were, alas, inexperienced. It is impossible to win a battle with courage and physical strength alone.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 19 2021 12: 47
        +3
        This is not surprising, given the fact that she has not really fought since the times of Peter the Great. The combat training was poor, and the commanders were, alas, inexperienced. It is impossible to win a battle with courage and physical strength alone.

        Yes you are right. And the cavalry regiment was generally young - it was created as a cavalry unit, only under Paul (I'm talking specifically about the cavalry guards regiment, and not about the guards of the emperors, who were there before). And, in fact, his first fight was Austerlitz.
        N. Samokish, collection of cavalry guards after the attack at Austelitsa:


        One of the squadrons of cavalry guards was commanded by Prince Nikolai Repnin-Volkonsky, who was wounded and taken prisoner.

        In 1836, Alexander Sergeevich, "Our All", "lost his land", Pushkin almost challenged Repnin to a duel. The duel did not take place - the parties peacefully figured out by correspondence, who said what in which direction, who farted at whom. But .. in the place of the experienced warrior Repnin, I would choose a broadsword! wink And I think an emotional lyricist would have ended his life a year earlier ... hi
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 18 2021 07: 05
    0
    But at the beginning of the battle, Miloradovich tried to be in front of the tsar all the time, which struck many, although he did not give any practical orders.
    What eyes"?

    Miloradovich (together with Klovrat) commanded the fourth column of the allied forces, which advanced to the Pratsen Heights.

    Then, by order of the Emperor, he left them.

    What "sensible order" could and should have given (but did not give) Miloradovich? Just one example.

    Kutuzov slept at the council (or pretended to be asleep). Lieutenant General Langeron - French aristocrat in Russian service


    Tarle:
    absolutely everyone in Russia and in Europe, who was in any way interested in the ongoing diplomatic and military struggle of the coalition against Napoleon, knew for sure that the Austerlitz catastrophe occurred solely because the ridiculous plan of Weyrother prevailed and that Alexander criminally neglected the advice of Kutuzov
    Lanzheron is simply an envious person, a slanderer and a hater of Kutuzov, all his life.
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 07: 55
      +9
      Good morning Andrey! Good morning everybody!
      We have been preparing for the Battle of Austerlitz for a long time, consistently, from article to article, pulling up to the place of its holding. We looked closely at who was wearing what. They remembered the names of emperors and generals, types of troops and types of weapons. Finally, the troops are placed like chess pieces on a board. It's like a world championship on neutral territory.
      And the battle broke out ...
      The impression is heavy. For the goal of both sides was to grind as many human lives as possible ...
      What a savagery this war is!
      It is gloomy from this. War is when the ruling elite has no mind. Napoleon is not a genius for me, and neither are the others.
      And so - yes, there are many people who are intoxicated by the sounds of battle, the smell of gunpowder, blood and are carried forward to the enemy by the permitted, removing all humanitarian brakes, the opportunity to kill someone like yourself without the thought that you will be killed yourself.
      I recognize the admissibility of such emancipation only in one case - if the war is Patriotic.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 18 2021 09: 21
        +6
        Good morning, Lyudmila! smile

        What a savagery this war is!


        Here is what Nikolai Berdyaev said about this.

        What is war? How to philosophically comprehend war? At a superficial glance, war is the movement and collision of material masses, physical violence, murder, maiming, the action of monstrous mechanical weapons. It seems that war is an exclusive immersion in matter and has nothing to do with spirit. People of the spirit sometimes easily turn away from war, as from something outwardly material, as an alien evil, forcibly imposed, from which one can and must escape to the higher spheres of spiritual life.
        Others reject war from a dualistic point of view, according to which there is a completely independent sphere of material, external, violent, separate and opposite to the spiritual, internal and free. But everything material is only a symbol and sign of spiritual reality, everything external is only a manifestation of the internal, everything that compels and coerces is a falsely directed freedom. Internally, it is possible to comprehend war only from a monistic, not a dualistic point of view, that is, seeing in it the symbolism of what is happening in spiritual reality. We can say that war is taking place in heaven, in other planes of being, in the depths of the spirit, and on the material plane only external signs of what is happening in the depths are visible. Physical violence that ends in murder is not something that exists in itself, as an independent reality - it is a sign of spiritual violence that has taken place in the spiritual reality of evil. The nature of war as material violence is purely reflective, symbolic, symptomatic, not independent. War is not a source of evil, but only a reflex to evil, a sign of the existence of inner evil and disease. The nature of war is symbolic.
    2. kalibr
      April 18 2021 09: 39
      +4
      Andrew! I read Tarle very carefully and not only him. About Miloradovich - they said ... people from Alexander's entourage. What and who has F.G. Urtulla, but I deliberately did not specify "what and who". Will you write him down as envious? There are many things ... and in the complex the picture comes out a little different. There will be an article in the cycle: "The Myths of Austerlitz" - there will also be about Tarle ... Wait ...
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 18 2021 10: 03
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        ... About Miloradovich - they said ... people from Alexander's entourage

        he commanded column troop - how it fits with this:
        At the beginning of the battle, Miloradovich tried to be in front of the Tsar all the time
        ?
        Quote: kalibr
        What and who has F.G. Urtulla, but I deliberately did not specify "what and who". Will you write him down as envious?

        Kutuzov has a sea of ​​envious and slanderers.

        And Urtulla has enough to read the false agitation "1812. Berezina. Victory at the height of the catastrophe"
        Quote: kalibr
        and in the complex picture comes out a little different

        it depends on what want to увидеть
        1. kalibr
          April 18 2021 11: 21
          +6
          Quote: Olgovich
          Kutuzov has a sea of ​​envious and slanderers.

          The cadets of whose corps he was the chief, and that whistled after his carriage were also among them? A crafty and unprincipled courtier, that's who he was. Yes, a good general, under the command of Suvorov. But bad, under the leadership of Alexander!
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 18 2021 13: 32
            -3
            Quote: kalibr
            The cadets of whose corps he was the chief, and that whistled after his carriage were also among them?

            me gossip-not interesting

            Quote: kalibr
            Crafty and unprincipled courtier that's who he was. Yes, a good general, under the command of Suvorov.

            it is otherwise called: skilful and a sophisticated diplomat and commander.

            Quote: kalibr
            But bad, under the leadership of Alexander!

            Name then something more epoch-making and significant in the history of Russia by that time than the destruction of the half-million Great Army of Europe (in twelve languages), which occurred under the "bad" commander Kutuzov.

            Oh, yes, General Frost, .... All itself resolved, yes ...
            1. kalibr
              April 18 2021 14: 59
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              Oh, yes, General Frost, ... Everything resolved itself, yes ...

              You don’t need to attribute to me what I have never written. But Napoleon's army was destroyed not only by Kutuzov. But also Bapklay de Tolly, Chichagov, Tormasov - many. In addition, data for 1912 would be given here - an anniversary article from the magazine "Niva", where it was written that in pursuit of Napoleon, Kutuzov lost up to 80% of his army ... frost, illness ... So it's not that merit, at the cost of such losses, to expel the enemy.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich April 18 2021 20: 16
                +1
                Quote: kalibr
                You don’t need to attribute to me what I have never written.

                it follows from Your statements that Kutuzov is bad.
                Quote: kalibr
                Napoleon was destroyed not only by Kutuzov. But also Bapklay de Tolly, Chichagov, Tormasov - many.

                Then list the names of all hundreds of thousands of soldiers of Kutuzov's army - they are also involved.

                But Commander one is Kutuzov
                Quote: kalibr
                In addition, here would be given data for 1912 - an anniversary article from the magazine "Niva", where it was written that in pursuit of Napoleon, Kutuzov lost up to 80% of your army ..

                no, dear: in pursuit of Napoleon, lost up to 80% Bonus terms and conditions apply their armies Chichagov, Tormasov and others - many.

                Or are they only involved in ... victory? belay
                Quote: kalibr
                So not such a merit, at the cost of such losses, drive the enemy out.

                It's not up to you to decide. And Russia, which awarded him, buried him in the heart of her capital and imprinted him forever on the Monument "1000th Anniversary of Russia" and in the immortal poems of her geniuses:

                Before the tomb of the saint
                I stand with my head drooping ...
                Everything is asleep all around; some icon lamps
                In the darkness of the temple
                Pillars of granite bulks
                And their banners are overhanging a row.

                Under them lies this ruler,
                This idol of the northern squads
                The venerable guard of the land of sovereign,
                The subduer of all her enemies,
                This rest of the glory
                Catherine eagles
                .

                Delight lives in your coffin!
                He gives us a Russian voice;
                He repeats us about that year
                When the popular faith voice
                Appealed to your holy graying:

                "Go, save!" YOU GOT UP AND SAVE !...

                Listen to our true voice today
                Rise and save the king and us
                O formidable elder! For a moment
                Appear at the door of the grave
                Appear, breathe enthusiasm and zeal
                The shelves left by you!

                A. Pushkin
                1. kalibr
                  April 19 2021 15: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Then list the names of all hundreds of thousands of soldiers of the Kutuzov army-

                  Didn't expect you to be ... a little deranged. It's sad.
                  And Pushkin ... he is not a decree to us. He wrote well about Barclay de Tolly, and wrote wonderful about Nicholas the First. He had such a trend. Who liked about that well, and who did not ... or thought over a lot of cards, the mood fell - bad about that!
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich April 19 2021 20: 02
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Didn't expect you to be ... a little deranged.

                    Don't you know that the real insane are piously convinced of the insanity ... of the healthy? belay

                    just that ....
                    Quote: kalibr
                    А Pushkin ... he is not a decree to us.


                    it's not a decree for you, but of Russia-completely.
                    Quote: kalibr
                    But this is generally ridiculous to read. Knowing how it really was. And about how it was I wrote here and more than once and gave links to dissertations. But it was not said about beads for nothing ...

                    We know how it was: you are not the only one who reads. And I assure you, you are not at all the ultimate truth.

                    However, I will not throw it, yes ...
                    1. kalibr
                      April 21 2021 07: 42
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      you are not a decree, but Russia is quite.

                      And fools and roads are the main problem of Russia ...
                    2. kalibr
                      April 21 2021 07: 43
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      We know how it was: you are not the only one who reads.

                      Have you really mastered Bezotosny's dissertation? 500 p. did you regret your order? The tradition is fresh, but hard to believe!
                2. kalibr
                  April 19 2021 15: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  When the popular faith voice
                  Appealed to your holy graying:
                  "Go, save!" YOU GOT UP AND SAVE! ...

                  But this is generally ridiculous to read. Knowing how it really was. And about how it was I wrote here and more than once and gave links to dissertations. But it was not said about beads for nothing ...
              2. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku April 19 2021 13: 21
                +3
                Kutuzov lost up to 80% of his army ... frost, disease ... So it's not such a merit, at the cost of such losses, to expel the enemy.

                Sorry, Vyacheslav Olegovich, but it could not have been otherwise in those conditions ... hi The war in winter, along the devastated land (Napoleon walked back and forth), with the then logistics ... The question is that Napoleon has almost no one left - from those who came to Russia! request And someone generally spread to us - I'm talking about the York corps with him at the head. good
                Do you remember about Kamensky 2nd? Young, energetic, untimely dead .. And what did Grech say?
                The death of the brilliant young commander saddened the whole of Russia, but one cannot fail to see God's mercy in this sad circumstance. If Kamensky had successfully ended the campaign with the Turks, he would certainly have been appointed commander-in-chief of the army against the French (in 1812), he would not have agreed to wait-and-see and retreat actions, he would have gone straight to Napoleon, would be broken by all means, and the whole new history of Russia and Europe would take on a different form - and which one - can easily be said now, at the end of half a century.
                Sometimes a "good commander" is not a master of a crushing blow, but one who knows how to wait. hi which is applicable to Kutuzov! soldier
                1. kalibr
                  April 19 2021 15: 50
                  +1
                  How many times to write and give links to dissertations that Napoleon's plans in Russia were known to Alexander thanks to the actions of our intelligence with the greatest possible accuracy, including plan to defeat our army in a general battle near the border... And everything, you understand, everything in this war was done in the light of the knowledge of his plans. The soldiers performed the heroism. Top commanders stupidly followed orders from above. Therefore, Alexander agreed to Kutuzov (although he did not like him very much), that ... he was assigned a strictly defined role, with which the old man would have coped better than the young.
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku April 19 2021 16: 00
                    +1
                    that Napoleon's plans in Russia were known to Alexander thanks to the actions of our intelligence with the greatest possible accuracy, including the plan to defeat our army in a general battle near the border.

                    Smash, and not go further Vilno, probably? And the plans were stolen by the cheerful Chernyshov? wink by the way, here is another example of a brilliant scout and dashing cavalryman, who later turned into a dubious person. It seems that he tried to destroy his relative Zakhar during the investigation of the Decembrists, so that he would get a piece of the inheritance ... Well, and, as far as I understand, he was not the best minister of war either ... hi
                    the role was assigned to him strictly defined with the old man with it would have coped better than the young.

                    You think? And the battle of Krasny?
                    1. kalibr
                      April 19 2021 17: 26
                      +2
                      I do not think. Dr. Bezotosny thought for me and wrote everything: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/bezotosnyy-vm-razvedka-i-plany-storon-v-1812-godu-referat
                  2. gsev
                    gsev April 19 2021 18: 30
                    +3
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Therefore, Alexander agreed to Kutuzov (although he did not like him very much), that ... he was assigned a strictly defined role, with which the old man would have coped better than the young.

                    Probably the role of intelligence is exaggerating in comparison with the role of the commander. Barclay and Bagration were unable to resist Napoleon with their strategy. After the defeat at Smolensk, the Russian army was on the verge of scrapping. It was the genius of Kutuzov who made it possible to restore it after the battle at Borodino and the surrender of Moscow, and then masterfully organize the pursuit of Napoleon, preventing the French from catching themselves on an oversight. Do not forget that Napoleon defeated Chichagov at the Berezina, and even at the beginning of 1814, the entire strategy of the Allies before the capture of Paris was reduced to a retreat in front of the troops led by Napoleon personally and their attack by formations commanded by other French commanders. Paris was taken on the basis of an accidentally intercepted dispatch, from which the Allies learned that Napoleon, with his strike forces, had planned a raid along the Allied lines of operations. As a result, Napoleon's blow fell into the void, and the allies, taking the capital, deprived Napoleon of resources and caused the abdication of the emperor of the capital, the state apparatus and part of his generals. In addition, it was the seriousness of the situation that removed Alexander I from direct interference in the conduct of the war in the summer and autumn of 1. Apart from Kutuzov, there were no people willing to take over the leadership of the war, who would not have been trusted by the army and society at that time.
                    1. kalibr
                      April 20 2021 06: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: gsev
                      Probably the role of intelligence is exaggerating in comparison with the role of the commander.

                      You first read Bezotosny's dissertation about this and then start guessing.
                      1. gsev
                        gsev April 20 2021 22: 10
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        You first read Bezotosny's dissertation on this

                        This dissertation directly states that Napoleon waged the war not on the basis of his long-term plans, but on the basis of an analysis of the enemy's actions. That is, knowledge of Napoleon's plans did not give guarantees of victory over him. In addition, the beginning of the war immediately revealed the unpreparedness of the Russian army for Napoleon's actions. From the very beginning of the war, the Russians lost the initiative. To Smolensk, in order to avoid defeat one by one, the two Russian armies were forced to conduct maneuvers with the aim of joining, substituting themselves under Napoleon's blows. Only the courage of the soldiers and officers prevented the destruction of Bagration's army. But as a result of the retreat, the Russian army lost its strategic reserves collected for the war. Large reserves were lost in the Drissa camp, considerable reserves were blocked in the Bobruisk fortress. Only the sluggishness of Dombrovsky, who, having a 3-fold superiority, did not bother to seize strategic reserves in Bobruisk, allowed Kutuzov to receive provisions and equipment while pursuing Napoleon in the Western provinces of Russia. In addition, the Russian merchants resignedly at their own expense restored the reserves lost in the Drissa camp, which made it possible to equip new troops and a large militia. Under Kutuzov, partisan warfare and the action of the Cossack cavalry were competently organized. It was this that destroyed the French cavalry, which, after the Russian campaign, was never able to recover. The second successful example of guerrilla and maneuver warfare could be demonstrated only by the Bolsheviks in the civil war. In addition, do not forget in 1812 Russia successfully fought almost all of Europe. In all other companies unsuccessful for Napoleon, he fought against all of Europe. Therefore, I do not see Napoleon's more successful opponents than Kutuzov. Do not forget that before that, Kutuzov won the war against the Turks and, through his diplomatic actions, achieved Turkish neutrality during Napoleon's invasion of Russia. Earlier, Russian commanders who challenged the primacy of genius from Kutuzov fought the 1805-1811 war with the Turks with varying success.
                    2. kalibr
                      April 20 2021 06: 23
                      +3
                      Quote: gsev
                      It was the genius of Kutuzov who made it possible to restore it after the battle at Borodino.

                      He was not in charge of recruiting ...
                    3. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku April 20 2021 09: 53
                      +3
                      After the defeat at Smolensk, the Russian army was on the verge of scrapping.

                      Vladimir, I don't quite agree with you here. Bagration in a slander on Barclay after Smolensk wrote differently ... Like, they could give a battle, and drive back. But they generally had a difficult relationship! hi
                      1. kalibr
                        April 20 2021 15: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        But they generally had a difficult relationship!

                        Not that word!
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku April 20 2021 17: 05
                        +1
                        Not that word!

                        In turn, Barclay also disliked not that Kutuzov - his team, which he brought with him from the Danube army. And also after the Battle of Borodino, he presented a detailed note (read - slander) how these comrades, in his opinion, unceremoniously interfered in the affairs of his 1st Army. No.
                        But Prince Peter Barclay still began to respect! True, after a fatal wound ... recourse
                    4. gsev
                      gsev April 20 2021 22: 25
                      -2
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      Bagration in a slander on Barclay after Smolensk wrote differently ... Like, they could give a battle, and drive back.

                      Under Borodino, the losses of the Russians were one and a half times higher than those of the French. It was Bagration's army that was mowed down by the concentrated fire of the French artillery, and Bagration himself was mortally wounded in this battle. Napoleon did not dare to bring his old guard into battle at Borodino before Kutuzov introduced openly standing reserves into battle. And Kutuzov's reserves were militia units that had no combat experience. After Maloyaroslavets, Kutuzov retreated from this city for two days. On the Berezina, Admiral Chichagov was defeated by Napoleon. That is, Napoleon was a great military leader of the 19th century, and in the event of the enemy's mistakes, he crushed his enemies even in very unfavorable conditions.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich April 19 2021 20: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Top commanders stupidly followed the directions from above.

                  Stupid the highest commanders of the Russian army, the victors of Napoleon, no one else named

                  Stupidity- won .. This is beyond ...
                  1. kalibr
                    April 20 2021 06: 20
                    +1
                    Napoleon had an accurate description ON EACH of our generals and knew what to expect from them, from everyone. And how they pissed off each other, were local, complained to the tsar ... still that story.
                  2. kalibr
                    April 20 2021 15: 37
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Nobody called the highest commanders of the Russian army, the victors of Napoleon, stupid

                    And there were no stupid ones, right?
                    "Famous person, respectable,
                    And he picked up the darkness of distinctions;
                    Beyond his years, and an enviable rank,
                    Not today tomorrow general "
                    There weren't any, right? Yes through one!
                    For the third of August; we sat down in a trench:
                    It was given to him with a bow around my neck.
                    It is interesting that on the 3rd of August there were no hostilities! It was not for nothing that Griboyedov wrote that!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich April 20 2021 19: 52
                      -1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And there were no stupid ones, right?

                      by name list - no idle chatter
                    2. kalibr
                      April 20 2021 20: 51
                      0
                      Actually, there will be about this, why run ahead. But even from what has already been written, if you read carefully, you can conclude that they were. Well, here's a guess, if it's not clear from the articles: Buxgevden, Przhibyshevsky, Selekhov, Shtrik, Volkonsky, Loshakov ... Is it not enough for you? This is only for Austerlitz ...
                      You should read Bezotosny's article about the generals' groupings in the Russian army ... but this will also be how they wrote slander against each other ...
                    3. kalibr
                      April 20 2021 21: 05
                      0
                      By the way, here are the data as to what the cost of the Russian army under the command of Kutuzov in pursuit of the enemy from Tarutino to Berezina:

                      It is not necessary to have a great military leader's talent like that! Napoleon was crushed by "General Frost" and he crushed us in the same way ...
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich April 21 2021 07: 19
                      -1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Well, here's a guess, if it's not clear from the articles: Buxgevden, Przhibyshevsky, Selekhov, Shtrik, Volkonsky, Loshakov ... Is it not enough for you? This is only for Austerlitz ...

                      little, of course: what is their "stupidity"?

                      and once again I will ask, WHAT should they have done stupid and did not?
                      Quote: kalibr
                      It is not necessary to have a great military leader's talent like that! Crushed Napoleon "General Moroz"and he pressed us in the same way ...

                      must-for the Victory has been achieved.

                      by the way, take an interest when the real Frosts began, so as not to talk about their general.

                      And yes, the loss of a quarter of the army in battles and a campaign is quite a bit.
                    5. kalibr
                      April 21 2021 07: 40
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And yes, the loss of a quarter of the army in battles and a campaign is quite a bit.

                      75 thousand out of 100 a little? Look for specifics in the text ...
                    6. Olgovich
                      Olgovich April 21 2021 09: 47
                      -1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      75 thousand out of 100 a little?

                      50 thousand wounded and frostbitten remained alive. Fatalities-25 thousand
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Look for specifics in the text.

                      STUPID-did not find ..... request
                    7. kalibr
                      April 21 2021 10: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Stupid-did not find

                      Well, that means we will have to point out its examples more specifically in the next material.
                    8. kalibr
                      April 21 2021 10: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      50 thousand wounded and frostbitten remained alive.

                      But out of order. This is LOSS!
      2. Ulrih
        Ulrih April 23 2021 15: 39
        0
        And how does the Drissa camp fit into this scheme "Alexander knew everything and planned", the offensive of the Russian army on Rudnya, Valutina Gora where it was possible to avoid defeat thanks to Junot's slowness and Borodino itself?
    3. kalibr
      April 19 2021 15: 56
      +2
      Read here: IN 2012: In the 1810 year, on the instructions of the Minister of War of Russia Barclay de Tolly, permanent military representatives (military agents) were sent to the Russian embassies abroad. Their main task was to conduct reconnaissance and intelligence work. Seven military agents from noble families were selected for conducting strategic reconnaissance in France and in the countries of Europe subordinate to Napoleon: Alexander Chernyshev, Grigory Orlov, Pavel Brozin (sent to France), Pavel Grabbe (sent to Bavaria's capital Munich), Victor Prendel (departed for Dresden - the capital of Saxony), Fyodor Teil von Seraskerken (departed for Vienna), Roman Rennie (acted in Berlin). Each of this “magnificent seven” was given the task to obtain information about Napoleon’s plans, his troops and their concentration on the borders with Russia, and also to make analytical reviews about the military-economic potential of France and its satellites.

      By the beginning of 1812, all seven had compiled a detailed map of the deployment of French troops, indicated their exact number - 450 thousand people, with whom Napoleon would cross the Russian border. Based on their reports, a secret memorandum was drawn up by the Special Office, which was then reported to Barclay de Tolly. In particular, it stated: “Evasion from general battles, guerrilla warfare by volatile units, especially in the rear of the enemy’s operating line, preventing fodging and decisiveness in continuing the war are the essence of Napoleon’s measures, tedious for the French and their allies unacceptable”.
      Author:
      Igor Atamanenko - journalist, writer. Served in counterintelligence agencies, retired lieutenant colonel
      BUT THIS IS ONLY A SMALL PART!
    4. ecolog
      ecolog April 19 2021 22: 44
      +2
      only today on Radio Kniga I heard this particular excerpt)
  • Richard
    Richard April 18 2021 10: 26
    +6
    Good article. Thank.
    In fact, there is simply nothing to comment on.
  • Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 April 18 2021 13: 45
    +5
    One "myth" is easy to notice on the Bondarchuk footage - look carefully, and then we take into account that the battle took place 2 December and, obviously, it was quite cold - the French with artillery broke the ice on the ponds, along which the allies retreated ..
    At Bondarchuk, everyone in uniforms is running around on the grass. However, I can't say that I like his style of battle shooting, in principle, it, perhaps, is in harmony with Tolstoy's perception - stupid flickering of crowds in the smoke. Lev Nikolaevich in his understanding of military processes, alas, could not rise beyond the horizons of a mediocre junior artillery officer.
    1. kalibr
      April 18 2021 15: 01
      +2
      Watch the 1960 film "Austerlitz"!
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 April 18 2021 22: 47
        +2
        Offend) I still looked at school, barely sat out until the battle. The Russians are a bit fantasy there, but in general everything is very colorful. And the same Kutuzov is shown with great respect.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 07: 14
    +6
    Darn. business! And there were cuirasses in the Russian cavalry in the 18th century! It is a pity that by the end of the century they "swam"! Although, I think that cuirasses would not have saved the situation at that time! No. And why did the tsar-father not have cuirasses according to the Ndrav? After all, there were beautiful vesches! recourse
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 18 2021 07: 58
      +8
      And why did the tsar-father not have cuirasses according to the Ndrav? After all, there were beautiful vesches! recourse

      Maybe they just "couldn't afford it" were, dressed in iron, and even beautifully decorated with such a bunch of people. Or, as is always the case with us, there was a banal mess - the cuirasses were sent to the sailors, and the cuirassiers received vests. laughing
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 08: 49
        +6
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Maybe they just "couldn't afford it" were, dressed in iron, and even beautifully decorated with such a bunch of people.

        Glad to hear you, Konstantin! Iron by iron, but there were also copper cuirasses! True, one denouncer of the plunderers of imperialist property wrote that there were "iron" cuirasses covered with polished thin brass, which looked like copper and shone! fellow Moreover, (in my opinion, I read this in the memoirs of the "Soviet" Count Ignatiev) when, for example, the cavalry guards stood "on the clock" or in honor guards at palace ceremonies in hot weather, they could be dressed in imitation cuirasses ... leather or cloth ... wink
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 18 2021 09: 04
          +6
          ... they could be dressed in imitation cuirasses ... leather or cloth ... wink

          Well, rightly so, why should people soar in vain at parades, but at least cardboard ones, if only there was a view. But in battle, there must still be "iron". smile
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 18 2021 08: 53
        +8
        We have already discussed before: the black cuirasses were returned in 1812, and 15 years later, they were replaced with copper ones.
        1. kalibr
          April 18 2021 09: 44
          +9
          In a word, everything is as described by Lloyd's Register, who analyzed the insurance situation: "In an emergency, the captain of the ship retired in the cabin and drank alcohol, the second mate was already dead drunk, and the third gave the command in English to the Greek helmsman, who did not know English and to that he suffered from hearing defects! "
        2. Richard
          Richard April 18 2021 09: 53
          +6
          Greetings Vladimir hi
          Greetings, Sergey hi
          they could be dressed in imitation cuirasses ... leather or cloth


          And here is an imposing uncle in a cloth dummy of a cavalier cuirass. Connoisseurs, can you tell me who it is?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish April 18 2021 10: 09
            +4
            I don’t know who it is, but in the holster he clearly has "Smith and Wesson" and most likely not a dummy, although everything is possible, the holster seems too light. wink
            1. Richard
              Richard April 18 2021 10: 18
              +12
              Lieutenant of the Cavalry Regiment Karl Gustav Emil Mannerheim, don't be remembered by nightfall
              1. Catfish
                Catfish April 18 2021 10: 39
                +6
                Come on, he fought for his country, why should he love the Bolsheviks. True, there was no need to put memorial plaques in his honor in St. Petersburg.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 April 18 2021 11: 23
                  +5
                  By the way, I could not resist. I brought a Mannerheim cocktail with me from Helsinki.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish April 18 2021 11: 25
                    +3
                    So how does it taste? And what are the ingredients? ))
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 April 18 2021 13: 08
                      +4
                      Besides vodka, some vermouth and gin. Quite acceptable.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish April 18 2021 13: 17
                        +4
                        Need to try. smile drinks
                      2. Nikolaevich I
                        Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 23: 59
                        +2
                        In our area at one time sold "Molotov cocktail"!
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 April 19 2021 01: 10
                        +3
                        In the Great Patriotic War?
                      4. Nikolaevich I
                        Nikolaevich I April 19 2021 01: 23
                        +2
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        In the Great Patriotic War?

                        No ... it was already after ... in the 90s ...! And in the Great Patriotic War I was not in "our land" ... the Japanese were ... recourse
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 April 19 2021 01: 26
                        +1
                        South Sakhalin or the Kuriles? Is it Molotov's cocktail?
                      6. Nikolaevich I
                        Nikolaevich I April 19 2021 02: 08
                        +2
                        Southern Sakhalin ... And the cocktail was in glass bottles with a "check" ... with exactly this name: "Molotov cocktail" ... moreover, in the "assortment"! yes
      3. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 18 2021 11: 16
        +5
        And it all started well: he loved horses and understood them well.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka April 18 2021 12: 25
      +2
      And here is an imposing uncle in a cloth dummy of a cavalier cuirass. Connoisseurs, can you tell me who it is?

      Cuirassier of the Life Guards of the time of Alexander III.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 11: 08
    +3

    About this "type" was a photo of the Count himself in Ignatiev's book ... True, it was a very long time ago and I don't remember Count Ignatiev's face ...
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku April 19 2021 16: 32
      +4
      About this "type" was a photo of the Count himself in Ignatiev's book ... True, it was a very long time ago and I don't remember Count Ignatiev's face ...

      And here is the "red graph" itself. drinks

      He is on the right. Teachings in the suburbs, 1939. Title - division commander. soldier

      Honored was a general ... Honor and glory!
      And here is the uncle of the "red count" - the famous diplomat Nikolai Ignatiev. In this photo he is very similar to the actor Timofey Tribuntsev (film "Monk and the Devil") - as if just about, and let go of some sharpness! drinks
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 20 2021 03: 08
        +3
        You can find other photos of Ignatiev!


        Actually, there is a considerable number of "similar" photos of cavalier guards in metal cuirass or cloth "cuirass" -supervests, and in helmets with eagles! Who can now "swear" that there has never been a photo of Ignatiev's cavalry guard in a supervest and in a helmet with an eagle? No.

        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I April 20 2021 03: 13
          +2
          PS "Samples" of cavalry guards outfit ...

          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 20 2021 09: 54
            +3
            PS "Samples" of cavalry guards outfit ...

            Beautiful, detailed photos ... Thank you! drinks
  • kalibr
    April 18 2021 11: 23
    +6
    This is not a fake. This is a supervest, it was also such a "dress".
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 13: 04
      +5
      [quote = kalibr] This is a supervest, it was also such a "dress". [/ quote Yes ... a supervest ... but in Ignatiev's book there is the name "cloth cuirass" ...
      ((((The usual marching uniform was black single-breasted uniforms and caps, and the weapons were common to the entire cavalry: checkers and rifles.

      But this, however, did not limit the matter, since for the honorary carauls in the palace, the cavalry guards of the icon-guards were assigned the so-called palace ceremonial uniform. Wore on top of the uniform red cloth breastplate, and on the feet - white suede leggings, which could be pulled only when wet, and medieval boots.)))

      Commander of the Cavalry Regiment Nikolai Nikolaevich Shipov Sr.
      Depicted in the palace ceremonial uniform (white tunic and over it red cloth breastplate-supervest)
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 11: 00
    +7
    Quote: Korsar4
    We have already discussed before: the black cuirasses were returned in 1812, and 15 years later, they were replaced with copper ones.

    Yes, this is so ... in 1812 "black" cuirasses were introduced ...

    As for the "copper" cuirasses, I did not pay special attention to this issue ... in my opinion, there were both ... Moreover, the so-called "copper" cuirasses were actually "iron-brass". ..

    During the 19th century, they tried to "revive" and improve the cuirass! They made iron-steel cuirasses from 2 sheets: iron and steel ... In the 30s, Anosov, the "author" of "Russian damask", worked on the manufacture of "damask" cuirasses ... In many European countries, from the middle of the 19th century (and who and since the 30s ...) they have been making bulletproof steel cuirasses from cast and then alloy steel ... In Russia, Chemerzin's steel cuirasses were the best ... French cuirassiers so "loved" cuirasses that in 1914 let's go (gallop!) to fight in them!

    French cuirass of the early 19th century ...
    .French cuirass of the times of the Crimean War ...
    Have you noticed that now in the parades they began to accept "a lot" of women? ... there were a lot of them in real troops too ... but I don't know if they make "grooves" on "female" body armor? In any case, in the "old days" they did ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 18 2021 12: 45
      +5
      Do they make "grooves" on "female" body armor?


      Looked through a whole bunch, here are the main types


      There is even for pregnant women

      But with the "grooves" is dumb. request
      But what an armored body there is! good
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 13: 10
        +4

        Let me write it off! repeat
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 18 2021 13: 19
          +6
          Take it, to your health! In the Ryazan region, this kind of good is rich, only instead of a sword - a rake, and they do not wear bras at all, especially in the summer, and it is already on the way. wink
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I April 18 2021 13: 42
            +4
            Quote: Sea Cat
            only instead of a sword - a rake

            Aren't your hands dragging on the ground? what
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 18 2021 14: 24
              +5
              Why are you now walking around the zoo and now looking at the young ladies in the monkey nursery? laughing
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I April 19 2021 04: 27
                +3
                And in our zoo there are no such monkeys ... recourse Only girls and monkeys ... winked You can't get enough of the girls "insolently!" stop Because girls are sometimes accompanied by local "orangutans"; and my wife ... request
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish April 19 2021 14: 37
                  +2
                  Your spouse won't let you go for a walk? Sorry. wink
                2. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I April 19 2021 15: 39
                  +2
                  No ... he lets out one ...: take out the trash, go to the store (if for bread ...), to the "simulator", to run through the streets ... Together we go only to "cultural events" ...: in zoo, park, theater, cinema, for the birthdays of friends, relatives, Sunday market ...
                3. Catfish
                  Catfish April 19 2021 15: 51
                  +3
                  Lord, how similar it is to my life. drinks request
                4. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I April 20 2021 10: 41
                  +2
                  Duc, it's not for nothing that there is an expression: "the average man in the street"! ...There are a lot of us ! recourse
                5. Catfish
                  Catfish April 20 2021 11: 28
                  +4
                  We're okay. But the average Strategic is clearly out of luck. laughing
                6. depressant
                  depressant April 20 2021 17: 05
                  +1
                  Kostya, shame on you! How not ashamed to present in this form a Candidate for the post of President of the Russian Federation?!? She is not poor, she has clothes! This is slander!
                7. Catfish
                  Catfish April 20 2021 19: 32
                  +2
                  A long time ago, when I was still watching TV, I once saw a talk show in which Svetlana Savitskaya openly called the Dog a kept woman. In Italy at that time a certain Cicciodina was running for the post of prime minister. So I ask, why is our girl worse than theirs?
                8. depressant
                  depressant April 20 2021 20: 16
                  +2
                  Actually, Cicciolina))) Well, this is so, by the way, they did not click on that. But I'm talking about something else.
                  Imagine, the other day I am reading some article on the Publicist (if you search, you can find it) - the article, by the way, is not long, and below it is a photo: dad Sobchak in a fluttering coat is in a hurry, apparently, to work. A little behind him, Zolotov is leading young Ksyusha by the hand - to school? I look at the faces, repeatedly shift my gaze from one to the other, scan, compare, and finally, in a daze, I conclude: so this is what it turns out to be ...
                9. Catfish
                  Catfish April 20 2021 20: 34
                  +2
                  And what turns out to be? True, since Psyusha cut off her half of her chin, she has not changed much. laughing
                  And Zolotov and Borka on the tank managed to light up: "Ours was ready to shoot everywhere!" wink
                10. depressant
                  depressant April 20 2021 20: 47
                  +2
                  "Our ripe shot everywhere!"

                  So here it is, what is the Aesopian language! wassat
                11. Catfish
                  Catfish April 20 2021 20: 58
                  +3
                  Yes, but it's better to be a polyglot.
                12. depressant
                  depressant April 20 2021 21: 20
                  +1
                  Excess swallowed can pass sideways. Or where does it come from there?
                13. Phil77
                  Phil77 April 20 2021 21: 29
                  +2
                  And here's another photoinfo. What faces! Faces!
                14. Catfish
                  Catfish April 20 2021 21: 32
                  +2
                  "All around are pig's snouts" (S. Gorodnichy)
                15. Phil77
                  Phil77 April 20 2021 21: 35
                  +2
                  And Volodenka has a kind of talking grin !!!!! bully
                  By the way, already 3-0 !!!!!
                16. Catfish
                  Catfish April 20 2021 21: 37
                  +2
                  Today he brought a four from school and put it in the refrigerator. laughing drinks
                17. Phil77
                  Phil77 April 20 2021 21: 42
                  +2
                  +++++++++++ !!!!!!!!!!! laughing laughing laughing
            2. depressant
              depressant April 20 2021 21: 40
              +2
              In fact, I was talking about the stunning similarity of the two faces. Either they did not understand or pretended, the conspirators.
            3. Catfish
              Catfish April 20 2021 21: 42
              +2
              Yes, they understood everything, only I do not see any "stunning resemblance, Psyushy jaw only chop nuts. laughing
            4. depressant
              depressant April 20 2021 21: 48
              +2
              You are comparing with the wrong object!
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 April 20 2021 21: 45
            +1
            Oh my God, it turns out he too ... Baskerville?!?! bully bully bully
        2. depressant
          depressant April 20 2021 21: 47
          +2
          Not digging - stigmas, which are already in the gun at the most I can not.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish April 20 2021 21: 35
      +3
      This is who - how, it happens that both enters and exits. Overdose. laughing
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 20 2021 21: 21
    +3
    Hello friends!
    Lyudmila Yakovlevna! Sin to you! Watching hockey, during the break I came off, dropped in to see you, friends. And here you are, you intrigued me, my dear!
    Here it is this photo. By the way CSKA SCORED the second puck, 2-0 !!!!! laughing
  • depressant
    depressant April 20 2021 21: 45
    +2
    Seryozha, my sincere congratulations to you and the puck too!))))
    It's almost that photo. Apparently, they clicked a series, and in one of the photographs Sobchak's coat is open, apparently before getting into the car. But what a similarity!
  • Intruder
    Intruder April 18 2021 15: 03
    +5
    But what an armored body there is!
    Eh, exactly what he is, handsome winked With such data, you must immediately go to intelligence, what would be something to do in the greenery in the summer, or in a safe apartment ...
  • Richard
    Richard April 18 2021 10: 03
    +6
    Konstantin hi
    Author: By the way, the Russian cavalry guards (unlike the French) did not have cuirasses in the battle of Austerlitz.

    There is a canvas from 1885 by our wonderful battle-painter N.S. Samokisha. "Return of Russian cavalry guards after the attack on the French at Austerlitz in 1805".

    no cuirass
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 10: 43
      +4
      Is it possible to assume that the cuirasses were white and the artist, playing with meaning and shades, was simply not distracted by such a "trifle" as drawing details? Or is this impossible for a competent battle artist? Either this is an episode after the battle, and the cuirasses have been removed to allow the heated body to breathe.
      1. Richard
        Richard April 18 2021 19: 42
        +4
        No, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, which is why Academician N.S. Samokish is the main battle artist of the Academy of Arts of the Republic of Ingushetia, because it is an accurate drawing of even the smallest details of horses, weapons and elements of clothing in his paintings, no matter what era he writes.
        a photo NS Samokish, "On the hill after the assault" War 1904-1905 (1908) State Tretyakov Gallery
        1. Richard
          Richard April 18 2021 19: 57
          +5
          Here are some photos of this wonderful person.

          Military - art detachment.
          Guards Colonel VK Shenk, Professor Academician NS Samokish and lower ranks in the garden at the Imperial Headquarters. Lomza. 1915 year


          Newspaper publication "Niva" 1915
          Academician Samokish with his students before being sent to the front of the 1st World War

          The Soviet government highly appreciated the talent and achievements of NS Samokish and awarded them with honorary titles, Stalinist prizes and orders. During the Soviet period, the master created paintings about the Civil War ("Intelligence", 1923, "Machine-gun cart", 1930, "N. A. Shchors in the battle near Chernigov", 1938). He was a consultant in the creation of the most ambitious art project of Soviet Russia until 1941 - the panorama "Storm of Perekop", wrote the pictures "Passage of the Red Army through the Sivash" (1935), "Storm of Perekop", "Storm of the Perekop shaft", etc.).
          Died N. S. Samokish in 1944
          It deserves a separate article in the "History" section.
    2. kalibr
      April 18 2021 11: 25
      +3
      It was in terms of the article. Didn't work out! "Dangerous for ..."
  • kalibr
    April 18 2021 11: 26
    +3
    Quote: depressant
    and the cuirasses are removed,

    They do not interfere with breathing. They were not according to the article!
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 12: 31
      +3
      And, like that, even ... We saved money without saving our lives. It's bad when the life of a warrior is a consumable even where it can be kept. But the battle of Borodino is still ahead - how many have been read on it, how many times it was necessary to boil with indignation, turning into indignation.
      And after all, every morning I start with Yandex, it's clear why.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 18 2021 15: 02
        +4
        An alternative to coffee and newspaper?
        1. depressant
          depressant April 18 2021 16: 00
          +3
          The smell of gunpowder in the air. Can't you feel?
          In general, having become interested in the topic, she began to watch the series "War and Peace" from 2007. Clemence Poesy, who plays Natasha, is good, natural and strikingly similar to the leading actress in the TV series "Homeland". Bolkonsky is not bad, Pierre is disgusting (and how good Pierre is in an English TV series!). But in general, what I undertook to watch, and most likely I will not go on, looks like a tortured props.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 April 18 2021 16: 49
            +5
            It is very difficult to predict something. Lack of information. The world is changing very quickly. But we have reliable information, as a rule, within our sandboxes.

            I have not watched a single series. Yes, and Bondarchuk - in fragments.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 18 2021 16: 56
            +5
            There is a smell of clean fresh water in the air, because the next global war will be precisely for this resource.
            1. depressant
              depressant April 18 2021 17: 21
              +5
              Does it really matter what resource!
              For the territory, for arable land, fossils - it was. For sales markets - it was. For the irresistible economic and military superiority as the only condition for complete security - it was. Water? Water is just a purchased resource. For what now? Except for the excess of humanity? Just so that it is not enough, it is easier, easier to manage it according to the old methods. There is no need to invent something, to ache with your head, strain someone's too smart brains, otherwise they will come up with something unpredictably new, complex, not realizable by definition, or implemented with dangerous consequences for implementers, archaic is a reliable tool, it will not let you down.
              And in a terrible silence with the smell of gunpowder, a series of times passes in anticipation of their clearly visible end. Is this life? Is there life in Russia or is it just an imitation, as an imitation, someone else's tracing paper, a photocopy that is not attached to reality, is a mechanism designed to portray it and be reflected in news resources?
              Don't listen to me, I'm kidding! wassat
              1. depressant
                depressant April 18 2021 17: 53
                +5
                And a fresh anecdote about water, which Anton remembered:
                Earthlings do not have the money to bring water to the arid regions of the Earth, but they do have the money to look for water on Mars. After that, one can ask the question: is there intelligence on Earth?
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave April 18 2021 17: 59
                  +4
                  Within the framework of the forthcoming change of the carrier of the mind, of course not! There is a chaotic biological forerunner.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant April 18 2021 18: 08
                    +3
                    Anton, said A, say B. Who is this mysterious replacement of us as a chaotic biological precursor? Are ... the Martians? Who are tired of watching us trying to break through to them in order to take away their legal water? Do you think they will hit at last )))
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2021 18: 26
                      +2
                      My respect, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
                      Counter question: how are you with English?
                      1. depressant
                        depressant April 19 2021 18: 58
                        +2
                        Hello dear Anton!
                        I have Hilo with English, I forgot, practice zero))) So, sometimes I go to reddit, look at pictures, somehow sort out the news, then I spit on this thankless job and go to Yandex, look or at a poisonous publicist))) In a word , not an expert!
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2021 19: 10
                        +2
                        It does not matter! In any case, in the context of your question, I recommend reading the American futurist Ray Kurzweil, I, with my English equal to the square root of minus one, mastered it.
                      3. depressant
                        depressant April 19 2021 19: 42
                        +2
                        I've heard about this Kurzweil, but interpreted in Russian. I managed to forget, I will try to refresh my memory))
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2021 19: 48
                        +2
                        Interpreted in Russian, there is only one job. Was reading. I think this is a short transcription of Bekhterev. Everything else is futorology. But, in English.
                      5. depressant
                        depressant April 19 2021 21: 37
                        +1
                        I went to Yandex, found it, remembered what Kurzweil was talking about. Along the way, I remembered a real case a year ago about a neural network. The robot was connected through it to many chats to learn. Well, I learned. He became a staunch supporter of fascist ideology and swear words. Researchers are terrified))))
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 18 2021 17: 54
        +3
        Now they began to use the strange word "simulacrum".

        There is life in all forms.
        And who will prevent a person from breathing deeply?
        1. depressant
          depressant April 18 2021 18: 33
          +1
          And here it is appropriate to ask the question: is there a person? I saw "simulacra" in commercials. They exactly copy a real person. Facial expressions, gestures, speech. At least he will sing an aria, at least a funny song. Though it will push the illegal speech, at least commit an illegal act - on the record. Prove it wasn't you. The term is possible real.
          Legislation will be introduced to prohibit simulacrum to commit illegal actions. Then a real person will turn out to be a violator of the order - he did not keep track of his simulacrum, so he is guilty. How difficult it is to live in an unreal reality! There are simulacra of the situation. I pressed the button, and you are on the screen against the background of Empire furniture. Lighting, shadows - you can't find fault. I pressed it again, and you are on the paradise islands. These are simulacra for the wealthy.
          For the poor - a simulacrum of garbage cans, where the wealthy throw their food. The poor will have to brag to each other about the categories of garbage.
          So what is life? We breathe, we drink birch sap, as Sergey advises. By the way, I never drank a birch, I don't know what taste it tastes like, what preservatives are mixed in there.
          The theory of the absurd.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 April 18 2021 18: 47
            +4
            In the birch itself, preservatives are not mixed.
            Another thing is what is in the ground and what is in the air.
            But this is an element of the seasons.
            As well as the flowering of primroses.

            Life is actions and thoughts. And more smiles.
            It is unlikely that the simulacrum will be happy about the sunset.
            1. depressant
              depressant April 18 2021 19: 59
              +2
              I don’t see your smiles. You are gloomy Sergey, fundamental, rooted in roots. Well, clearly not an American.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 20: 15
                +3
                “Frivolity is a sweet sin.
                My dear companion and my dear enemy.
                You shot laughter into my eyes.
                You put a mazurka in my veins ”(c).

                I thought about the frequency of my smiles, the depth of the foundation and the root system.

                I have never pretended to be an American.
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 20: 23
                +3
                https://stihi.ru/2018/01/29/9996
              3. depressant
                depressant April 18 2021 21: 09
                +3
                It's amazing how I guessed about the roots! good

                KORSAR 4.

                Long way for the Blue Bird
                On the way to Guatemala.
                Visit Quetzaltenango ...
                On country roads
                Every step will drive away thoughts
                Only new ones will rush.
                A society of Indians is visible,
                Old mix of civilizations
                Zebra, puff pie
                The annual layer is counted.
                Man is like a tree.
                Who is tall and who is stable.
                Who grows firmly into the ground,
                Who swayed by the wind.
                In the wind and in the rain.
                In drought and intense cold
                Growth is going on inexorably.
                Wet and dry seasons
                Temper a person ...
                The tree is not just a crown.
                The wind plays with braids.
                The world of roots is less visible.
                But the roots are most important.
              4. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 21: 13
                +3
                But this is still not a self-portrait.
              5. depressant
                depressant April 18 2021 21: 19
                +2
                But you have succeeded in the portrait of the roots. Earthling You, Sergey, Earthling drinks You are on the right and a Martian on the left wassat
              6. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 21: 22
                +3
                Mityaev:

                “I buy asters from the metro again,
                As an ordinary earthling among earthlings "(c).
              7. depressant
                depressant April 18 2021 22: 08
                +3
                Bearded jokes.

                Who are you?
                - Alien.
                - ABOUT! Healthy! And I'm an Earthman, give me five!
                - I can not. I can't give five ... I can give seven.

                Don't be afraid of aliens. Fear people who say they have seen aliens.
              8. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 22: 11
                +4
                There are probably more jokes about Constantine.
                But one cannot but recall the classics:

                "Vasya, do not pour the humanoid any more" (c).
              9. depressant
                depressant April 18 2021 22: 21
                +5
                And there is a continuation:
                "The alien got drunk with the Russians for a week and ended up not at ease."
              10. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 18 2021 22: 24
                +3
                It is necessary to look at who you are contacting.
              11. depressant
                depressant April 18 2021 22: 36
                +3
                And, most importantly, carefully monitor the sequence in which the ends are superimposed, one of which you are, on top of each other and in time to determine in what type of sea knot they are tied with you. Otherwise, then you want - you will not untie.
              12. Korsar4
                Korsar4 April 19 2021 01: 03
                +2
                "We swam, we know!" (from).
      3. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 19 2021 04: 17
        +2
        Quote: depressant
        Fear people who say they have seen aliens.

        Why be afraid of us? No.
      4. depressant
        depressant April 19 2021 06: 31
        +2
        Nikolaevich, good drinks
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 18 2021 17: 52
    +4
    Therefore, during the season, drink birch sap.
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 22: 15
      +2
      Once again I am reading this advice of yours. Time after time, bumping into him with a glance, she began to look with interest into the kitchen window, behind which one could see huge birches. The plans that had arisen were to go drill a hole in one of them and collect the sap crashed against an irresistible circumstance - it got dark and the birch trees were no longer visible.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 18 2021 22: 21
        +3
        The birches are in place.
        But the juice collection period is limited.

        Do you live on the border of the forest?
        1. depressant
          depressant April 18 2021 22: 30
          +3
          Well no ))))
          Birches grow evenly at a distance of 6 meters from the house. And I will never make any attempt to drill a tree:
          1. Barbarism.
          2. Cars drive along the road along the birch trees. The barrels are impregnated with gasoline, lead, let the car owners tell you what else these barrels can be impregnated with. It is said: "I drank birch sap in the spring FOREST ..." (c)
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 April 19 2021 01: 05
            +2
            Of course.
            The forest is not barbaric.
            You don't really regret sauerkraut when you eat it, do you?
            1. depressant
              depressant April 19 2021 06: 29
              +1
              It depends on what grade. Eating pickled kumato, you will cry. You will eat and regret.
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 April 19 2021 06: 34
              +3
              Is this somewhat similar to the Freken Bock recipe?
              I love spicy. Although strange for my almost Ryazan physiognomy.
            3. depressant
              depressant April 19 2021 06: 36
              +2
              We are all with Ryazan faces! So the attempt to appear original at the expense of the haplogroup is not counted. wassat
            4. depressant
              depressant April 19 2021 06: 57
              +1
              And my heart sank - on Opinions "Breath of War", the very smell of gunpowder. And a quiet, humble sadness, almost hopelessness of the first commentators, an unstable, timid hope.
              And pity splashed out, all yesterday hidden behind cursing, chatter about this, and about this - people are silently waiting, they have nowhere to go, and an internal protest breaks out. Reason did not visit us, sick people, the divine spark did not ignite.
            5. Korsar4
              Korsar4 April 19 2021 06: 57
              +3
              I never tried to figure out these haplogroups. On the way, repulsive. Too much sensationalism.
  • kalibr
    April 18 2021 15: 04
    +3
    And the lancers of Constantine first fought without rushes at all! He liked the shape and copied it, but forgot about the spades!
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 18: 00
      +3
      And again I remembered Louis Boussinard: there were lancers in Captain Tear-off the Head, they had spades. Lancers played a game called "Poke a Pig". One of the captives was used as a pig. Such is the ignoble degeneration of the once serious branch of the armed forces. The caught "pig" was defenseless.
    2. Tavrik
      Tavrik April 18 2021 20: 52
      +4
      The Ulan regiment was indeed formed not long before these events. In terms of number (about 1300 people), it outnumbered some of the French cavalry divisions. The horse train was not fired upon. The personnel are not experienced. Having crushed the French cavalry of Kellermann, the lancers flew into the French guns, in particular, the Levavasser battery. As he later wrote: “All the cavalry of Grand Duke Constantine rushed to my guns. cut off my little finger on my right hand with a blow of a saber. Suddenly his horse fell, struck by a bullet. The officer rushed to my stirrup and said to me: "Agree, we are both brave." He repeated these words several times, staying next to me and examining himself as my prisoner. " Of course, Levavasser agreed that they were both brave hi
      Well, the lancers were shot by the infantry of Cafarelli, which was standing behind. They let the retreating horsemen of Kellerman pass, lined up in a battalion square and met ours ...
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik April 18 2021 19: 42
    +3
    Please note that in Bondarchuk's film, the shako soldiers are not at all the same as in the 2007 film. Exactly the ones that were in 1805. She only has shoulder straps on one shoulder. Bolkonsky also has shoulder straps on his shoulders, and not epaulettes, which were introduced later. In short, with each film we degrade further and further ...
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik April 18 2021 20: 18
    +4
    Quote: Ryazanets87
    it was cold enough - the French with artillery broke the ice on the ponds, along which the allies retreated ..

    This is one of the legends of Austerlitz. Guards artillery really worked there, but no one broke the ice on purpose, it broke itself. The ponds were intended for fish farming and were drained. Depth - approximately chest-high. A few days after the battle, the ponds were drained under the supervision of Marshal Suchet. In a report dated 16.02.1805, Suchet reported to the emperor: "Following Your Majesty's order, I drained water from a pond near Auezd. This operation took 5 days. Already in the first days, lowering the water level allowed us to extract 12 Russian cannons and the total number of those which were found in the pond, amounted to 36. 138 horse corpses and 3 human bodies - that's what we were able to find. "
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik April 18 2021 20: 20
    +4
    The French infantry lined up in squares and met the line of the Horse Guards with bayonets and point-blank shots, but could not withstand their blow and began to scatter.

    These were battalions of the 4th line and 24 light regiments. It was then that Major of the 4th Linear Regiment Bigarre received 25 wounds, but survived. Ours, having galloped over the French infantry, began to put themselves in order, and then two squadrons of horse rangers, a squadron of horse grenadiers, and a company of Mamelukes jumped out onto them. Well, the infantry began to rise, tk. those who did not run away fell flat on the ground. “Although wounded and drenched, I got up and shouted:“ To arms! ”- said Lieutenant Dupin from the 4th line.“ According to this cry, ... everyone who could, got up and began to help the grenadiers and Mamelukes. It is impossible to imagine how desperate this fight and this massacre was! "

    It is interesting that the battalions of Saint-Hilaire and Vandamme went to attack the Prazen Heights with the song: "Tremble the enemies of France,
    Kings drunk with blood and pride
    It is a free people speaking out
    Tyrants, your place is in the grave! "
    The ideals of the French Revolution were still alive ...

    In general, instead of frames from films, it is better to give hourly troop dispositions. Then at least it will be clear who, where, whom, when ...
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 21: 02
      +2
      Cards...
      Whatever the cards, everything will end as in an excerpt from GRENADERS:

      Two grenadiers to France
      They wandered from Russian captivity
      And both were depressed soul,
      Reaching German land.

      They will have to - hear - see
      Shame on his native country ...
      And the brave army is broken
      And the emperor himself is in captivity!

      Heinrich Heine.

      How ruthlessly history has crushed huge layers of human destinies, how it has rammed people! Reading a poem completely is very painful. I have known him since childhood, I remembered him once in German, now, apart from the initial lines, I have forgotten, the Internet has helped. And it was always touching how deeply the German poet, much later than the Battle of Borodino, felt the misfortune of people - wounded, sick, freezing, but did not want to give up their ideals.
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik April 18 2021 21: 47
        +5
        Yes, behind all the tinsel of knightly relations, bright parades, magnificent forms of that era, they usually forget about the tragedies of millions of people. Those who were in soldiers' uniforms were participants in all these events. Not always well-fed, wet, in crumbling shoes ... eating food, cooked somehow in unsanitary conditions, suffering from indigestion from poor water, rheumatism from constant spending the night on the ground, in the same cloth uniforms in the heat and cold, with heavy knapsacks and weapons, constant fatigue. With virtually no medical assistance and logistical support.
        The same handsome hussars, who are constantly at outposts, in reconnaissance, behind the line of their troops. On unfamiliar terrain, often hostile, in constant danger to meet with the same enemy cavalrymen, when any minor wound can be fatal. No supply, self-sustaining. In the rain, mud, cold, heat ... And only morale, the conviction that "our cause is right," helped to experience all this everyday horror. If the French have the idea of ​​"freedom, equality, brotherhood", the spirit of competition, the desire to excel, then the same Prussians in 1806 sang:
        "Someone dreams of dying for a king,
        And my dream is to inherit 10 thalers.
        Fool, the fatherland is not grateful. "
        It is good to look at that era after 200 years.
        1. depressant
          depressant April 18 2021 21: 52
          +2
          Great comment, colleague Tavrik! How much feeling! love
          1. kalibr
            April 19 2021 06: 57
            +3
            Yes, the comment is great. Excellent understanding of realities. Remember also the song from the old German film "Flint" ... "I didn't give a damn about the king ..." This song is a fiction, but they sang this way or almost so.
    2. kalibr
      April 19 2021 06: 57
      +1
      Quote: Tavrik
      In general, instead of frames from films, it is better to give hourly troop dispositions.

      Draw and we'll publish!
      1. Liam
        Liam April 19 2021 07: 20
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Tavrik
        In general, instead of frames from films, it is better to give hourly troop dispositions.

        Draw and we'll publish!

      2. Tavrik
        Tavrik April 19 2021 10: 14
        +1
        Everything has already been drawn before me. wink
        It is possible to take from Urtull, but it is better from OV Sokolov, from the second volume of "Austerlitz. Napoleon, Russia, Europe 1799-1805".
        1. kalibr
          April 19 2021 18: 17
          +1
          For a number of reasons, it is impossible. Urtul has bad, incomprehensible plans ... Why disturb Occam's razor?
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik April 18 2021 20: 56
    +5
    Quote: Olgovich
    And Urtulla has enough to read the false agitation "1812. Berezina. Victory at the height of the catastrophe"

    I did not read Urtulla, but under Berezin there were many interesting and unusual things that contradicted the canonical version of the universal defeat.
  • Tavrik
    Tavrik April 18 2021 21: 05
    +4
    For those who are interested in this topic, I recommend the two-volume edition "Austerlitz. Napoleon, Russia and Europe 1799 - 1805". Everything is in detail, from high politics to the actions of individual battalions. Using hundreds of primary sources, mostly French.
    1. depressant
      depressant April 18 2021 21: 57
      +2
      I suppose Richard (Dmitry) will respond and say: "I've read it!" It's nice to see the comments of the encyclopedists)))
      It's like plunging into the Renaissance. Or maybe she's coming back?
  • kalibr
    April 19 2021 06: 53
    0
    Quote: Ryazanets87
    And the same Kutuzov is shown with great respect

    And sometimes they even speak Russian, albeit with an accent.
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 April 19 2021 22: 10
    +1
    Author! And, tell us about the "role of personality in history"! Remember Leo Tolstoy and his "War and Peace"! What do you think of it?))). Personally, I am categorically against the opinion of Tolstoy, with which he "justified ... al" both the Russian character and the role of Russia !!!
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2021 15: 38
      0
      Quote: Yuriy71
      Author! And, tell us about the "role of personality in history"! Remember Leo Tolstoy and his "War and Peace"! What do you think of it?))). Personally, I am categorically against the opinion of Tolstoy, with which he "justified ... al" both the Russian character and the role of Russia !!!

      Of course, there will be about it. But for a start, read GV Plekhanov "On the question of the role of personality in history".
  • Alexander Betonkin
    Alexander Betonkin April 19 2021 22: 35
    +1
    Cool. Thank you, I even took a map of the battle to make out some of the points. And I remembered "War and Peace". I got a four in the exam for "Tushin's battery".