Military Review

Stealth performance is no longer meaningful: the detection factor of Zumwalt destroyers operating marine drones is being discussed

56

The American stealth destroyer USS Zumwalt is in the final stages of preparation for maneuvers. They will take place in April.


The American military command has decided to conduct a naval exercise, during which the latest destroyer of the Navy is to act as a command ship and a mobile command post for marine drones. This is another direction in which they are trying to find an application for a super-expensive warship.

Recall that initially the US Navy designated Zamvolt-class destroyers as strike weapons on which it was planned to install electromagnetic guns. The planned order was 32 such destroyers. As a result, it was decided to reduce it to 4 ships, realizing that the final cost of the Zamvolts could exceed all reasonable limits. At the moment, the Pentagon buys such ships from manufacturers at a price of more than $ 4 billion per unit. To buy - buys, but cannot find a specific use for them.

United States Navy Command:

The destroyer Zumwalt will go on a multi-domain operations exercise. We plan to use it as a floating command post, which will coordinate the activities of various types of marine drones and control them.

At the same time, it is noted that "at the moment the most optimal data exchange protocols between marine drones and a stealth destroyer are being studied."

In this regard, there is a reason for discussion. Experts point out the following factor: when exchanging data in real time between Zamvolt and sea drones, regardless of protocols, the meaning of the stealth characteristics of a combat ship is lost. With effective equipment, the signals can be tracked, and ultimately they will also increase the likelihood of determining the exact location of the USS Zumwalt at sea in the event of a real combat operation.

After receiving its coordinates, it will be enough to select a suitable rocket armament, which will simultaneously solve several problems: it will be able to destroy the stealth destroyer itself and will lead to de-coordination for naval drones, which were given commands from the ship.
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  1. Cananecat
    Cananecat April 12 2021 10: 39
    +6
    Yes, yes ... and it is desirable to conduct this test in the Black Sea ...)))
    1. xorek
      xorek April 12 2021 10: 46
      +6
      Quote: Canecat
      Yes, yes ... and it is desirable to conduct this test in the Black Sea ...)))

      They are not only in the Black Sea with this golden iron, but in general they are afraid to admit or even approach ours, as well as their vaunted F-35s, close to the borders of Russia. laughing Dofig money, but mind for a cent ..
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 April 12 2021 10: 57
        +6
        xorek
        Today, 10: 46

        +1
        Quote: Canecat
        Yes, yes ... and it is desirable to conduct this test in the Black Sea ...)))

        This golden iron ...
        Why are you a colleague about the Merikatos product? What if holes were made in the deck, stakes were inserted, clotheslines were pulled? Can you imagine how much you can dry diapers? laughing
      2. Cananecat
        Cananecat April 12 2021 11: 10
        +9
        They are not only in the Black Sea, but in general they are afraid to let this golden iron close to the borders of Russia

        Well, Duc will be like with that drone ... they will put a Yandex browser on it that cannot be removed and screw the function of a wi-fi router so that they don't wander around)))
        1. NIKN
          NIKN April 12 2021 14: 34
          +9
          And the Yandex browser will offer updates every Monday. laughing
      3. viralig
        viralig April 12 2021 12: 35
        +4
        This is not an iron, but a floating suitcase without a handle. And it's a pity to throw it away, and it's hard to carry.
      4. ironic
        ironic April 12 2021 12: 57
        -12%
        Uh-huh. Then the F-35 is already full in Europe ... and in the Syrian sky there are ... lol
    2. RealPilot
      RealPilot April 12 2021 10: 47
      +9
      The planned order was 32 such destroyers. As a result, it was decided to reduce it to 4 ships, realizing that the total cost of the Zamvolts could exceed all reasonable limits.

      In reality, there are 3 of them, 2 in formation.
      Namely Zamwalt, Michael Monsour and Lyndon B. Johnson (tail numbers 1000, 1001 and 1002, respectively). We have not heard anything about the fourth one ... Perhaps, those data are outdated.
      1. RealPilot
        RealPilot April 12 2021 11: 03
        +6
        In a way, the concept of "stealth", with all its real advantages and disadvantages, is not only a military-technical topic, but also an information-political one.

        To a certain extent, "stealth" = "impunity and superiority." Let me explain. The challenge was to create an invulnerable weapon that would achieve victories without its own losses. The dream of warlords of all time!
        I remember when the F-117 was shown to the world, it was done extremely pompously. Tremble, enemies! And then he was shot down in Yugoslavia by the S-125 (one, of course, for many successful sorties - they flew off very successfully in general).

        Impunity was not justified. And fanatical adherence to the concept led to large "casualties" in terms of combat and technical parameters. And it is not clear what to do with this, because in their way these are very good ships and airplanes, but inconvenient and with inherent flaws, and at the same time very unreliable. And the main advantages turned out to be somewhat exaggerated.

        So the Americans are trying to justify the investment and correct the shortcomings. And then they will write off ... How it happens with modular ships LCS (near sea zone - Littoral Combat Ships).
        1. FIR FIR
          FIR FIR April 12 2021 11: 36
          +3
          Quote: RealPilot
          So the Americans are trying to justify the investment and correct the shortcomings. And then they will write off ... How it happens with modular ships LCS (near sea zone - Littoral Combat Ships).

          Searches and experiments ........... Failures and successes .......... Only those who do nothing are not mistaken.
        2. ironic
          ironic April 12 2021 12: 55
          -3
          Well, yes, the only one, and if we remember how it was shot down, then we can assume that not a single one. There is still something to tremble. For it was justified and how. And the merits have worked for all the tasks.

          And nobody not only wrote off LCS, but also did not stop production. Only a few of the oldest ships will go to decommissioning, the modernization of which is unproductive. The rest equip anti-ship missiles and serve ahead. People love to tell stories on VO.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder April 12 2021 14: 45
            -1
            People love to tell stories on VO.
            Also throwing minuses, such personalities live here ... (corrected you, to the best of his ability) !!! good
            1. ironic
              ironic April 12 2021 18: 53
              -4
              And for what you are now minus squeezed, this is definitely from "altruistic" considerations and nothing more. In general, I am prus from such disadvantages. Like I didn't write to the uryak, I minushaku to him!
      2. ironic
        ironic April 12 2021 12: 55
        -1
        This is not the data that is outdated, but the article was prepared that way.
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 12 2021 10: 44
    +6
    The planned order was 32 such destroyers.
    Damn, it's a pity that the Merikatos didn't have time! So much dough would be blown away! laughing
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. April 12 2021 10: 49
      +9
      Damn, it's a pity that the Merikatos didn't have time! So much dough would be blown away!
      It would be good if Kiev would be given one of these ... only for servicing, he would have eaten up the entire budget of Ukraine ... and this is without taking into account corruption.
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 April 12 2021 10: 52
        +5
        Lech from Android. (Lech from Android)
        Today, 10: 49

        0
        Damn, it's a pity that the Merikatos didn't have time! So much dough would be blown away!
        It would be good if Kiev would be given one of these... only on service, he would have eaten the entire budget of Ukraine ... and this is without taking into account corruption.
        I almost choked !!! This is how much more admirals the Nazis needed for such a piece of iron! At least 3-5 per ship. wink
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 April 12 2021 10: 59
        +5
        It would be nice if Kiev was given one of these

        Not - it would be better if all four Iowas from conservation and from the museum were given .. And it looks very solid, and pride will be above the roof, and for the money - like the whole of Tsegabonia ..
      3. Andrey Korotkov
        Andrey Korotkov April 12 2021 11: 05
        +6
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Damn, it's a pity that the Merikatos didn't have time! So much dough would be blown away!
        It would be good if Kiev would be given one of these ... only for servicing, he would have eaten up the entire budget of Ukraine ... and this is without taking into account corruption.

        Precisely, to weld the ship to the berth wall, the entire energy system of Ukraine to power the electric magnetic guns laughing (Which is not)
      4. usr01
        usr01 April 12 2021 11: 18
        +7
        ... and this is without taking into account corruption ...
        Like this??? In Ukraine, and WITHOUT accounting for corruption ???
        You're kidding ... Well, just laughing ... :) :)
    2. bobba94
      bobba94 April 12 2021 10: 58
      -5
      Frankly speaking, if the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation were suddenly allocated $ 20 billion and told to pile something modern, then I think that as a result, there would be a home-grown Zamvolt. Generals, they are generals everywhere ...
  3. paul3390
    paul3390 April 12 2021 10: 55
    +2
    I don’t really understand the principle of stealth .. Well, let's say you have a piece of glass that does not reflect anything and does not emit in infrared. And what is the use of it? She only knows how to shkeritsya! For as soon as she turns on at least some guidance system - and that's it, she shines like a Christmas tree. What - when an anti-ship missile (RCC) approaches, the ship will not be protected by anything? Won't turn on anything, hoping they won't notice? But is this nonsense? So stealth is probably good as an additional option, but to build devices that are sharpened exclusively for it, to the detriment of other characteristics .. Well, I don’t know ..

    I also understand the shock option - quietly flew or swam to the desired place, shot at the coordinates given in advance and quickly merged. But after all, modern warfare cannot be limited only to such tasks? Then why all this hype around the type of invisibility?
    1. Andrey Korotkov
      Andrey Korotkov April 12 2021 11: 09
      +6
      Quote: paul3390
      I don’t really understand the principle of stealth .. Well, let's say you have a piece of glass that does not reflect anything and does not emit in infrared. And what is the use of it? She only knows how to shkeritsya! For as soon as she turns on at least some guidance system - and that's it, she shines like a Christmas tree. What - when an anti-ship missile (RCC) approaches, the ship will not be protected by anything? Won't turn on anything, hoping they won't notice? But is this nonsense? So stealth is probably good as an additional option, but to build devices that are sharpened exclusively for it, to the detriment of other characteristics .. Well, I don’t know ..

      I also understand the shock option - quietly flew or swam to the desired place, shot at the coordinates given in advance and quickly merged. But after all, modern warfare cannot be limited only to such tasks? Then why all this hype around the type of invisibility?

      Do not drive the Pentagon into paint, they are looking for a solution to this issue from the beginning of operationwinked
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 12 2021 11: 10
      +4
      "? She only knows how to pull herself up! For she should turn on at least some guidance system" ///
      ----
      What's incomprehensible? He came up unnoticed and fired a volley first.
      So what if the ship was spotted at that moment. Who shot first always has
      advantage.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 April 12 2021 11: 37
        0
        He came up unnoticed and fired a volley first.

        It's good when target designation is all right and the enemy is Papuan .. I don’t think that against us or China - such a trick will easily fail .. And then - this is just one of the possible tasks of the ship. Usually he has plenty of others. Which you can solve without communication and active guidance systems. And to cost purely percussion disposable machines for that kind of money - I think even mattress covers will burst pants ..
        1. ironic
          ironic April 12 2021 12: 50
          -3
          Uh-huh. You still have to try to sink it one-time, when some kind of AUG or a group of an amphibious helicopter carrier, also a light avik, is looming behind your back.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 April 12 2021 14: 13
            +1
            Are you going to take it on a ram? It seems that no one canceled the RCC ..
            1. ironic
              ironic April 12 2021 14: 18
              -1
              The anti-ship missiles still need to be brought and placed, and then they still need to penetrate the air defense / missile defense system.
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 April 12 2021 14: 20
                +1
                That is why they are testing the Legend with Zircon .. And they are very doubtful about how to cope with Onyx too ..
                1. ironic
                  ironic April 12 2021 14: 51
                  -3
                  Barak-8 has dealt with Brahmos too. Here it is more important to detect in time, which is not so difficult in the case of huge supersonic missiles. And Zircon is not yet known what kind of goose.
                2. Intruder
                  Intruder April 12 2021 14: 53
                  +1
                  They are testing the legend with Zircon .. Yes, they and Onyx about coping are highly questionable.
                  When was Legend launched, and Onyx !? Also, there were no ships of this type ... And Zircon, on board - INS + ARLGSN! That's just for this, and the low visibility for the ARLGSN of this rocket, well, not fools are sitting there, you can not underestimate the probable, especially since they have already decided to turn it into the UAV MCC, and not just put "hypersounds" and all sorts of railguns, it means that there are already blueprints on sea drones there are, rather, not just reconnaissance versions, namely, drums "in their hands", these very snickering and helluva lot of technology!
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 12 2021 14: 32
          +3
          "for that kind of money, pure percussion disposable machines" ////
          ----
          Why disposable? Zumvolts have 80 missile slots.
          Anti-aircraft, winged. This is not a lot, but also a lot.
          Moreover, these cells are longer and can accommodate larger missiles.
          diameter than Burke and Ticonderogi.
          Such missiles are now completing test programs.
          So, quite a normal missile cruiser in terms of armament turns out.
          Only expensive.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder April 12 2021 14: 55
            0
            normal missile cruiser
            and when, exactly this type of ships was - cheap !? winked
          2. aszzz888
            aszzz888 April 13 2021 02: 10
            +1

            voyaka uh (Alexey)
            Yesterday, 14: 32

            +4
            "for that kind of money, pure percussion disposable machines" ////
            ----
            Why disposable? Zumvolts have 80 missile slots.
            Anti-aircraft, winged. This is not a lot, but also a lot.
            Moreover, these cells are longer and can accommodate larger missiles.
            diameter than Burke and Ticonderogi.
            Such missiles are now completing test programs.
            So, quite a normal missile cruiser in terms of armament turns out.
            Only expensive.
            You crucify yourself as for your own! REMEMBER - ANY piece of iron will have a place at the bottom !!!!! You can write it down as a keepsake, so be it! laughing
      2. lucul
        lucul April 12 2021 16: 27
        +4
        What's incomprehensible? He came up unnoticed and fired a volley first.
        So what if the ship was spotted at that moment. Who shot first always has
        advantage.

        Seriously ? ))))
        Well, any attack submarine will cope with this perfectly. She approached imperceptibly, fired a volley and disappeared into the depths.
        And these submarines are 4-8 times cheaper than Zamvolt.
      3. aszzz888
        aszzz888 April 13 2021 02: 08
        +1

        voyaka uh (Alexey)
        Yesterday, 11: 10

        +5
        "? She only knows how to pull herself up! For she should turn on at least some guidance system" ///
        ----
        What's incomprehensible? He came up unnoticed and fired a volley first.
        But who will let him "come up unnoticed"? laughing tongue fool Again manger tales in the Hebrew manner ?! tongue You would really try your sermons in kindergartens)) laughing look at itщb and ride! Eeeeeeee! wassat
    3. Doccor18
      Doccor18 April 12 2021 11: 15
      +8
      Quote: paul3390
      What - with an approaching anti-ship missile, say, the ship will not be protected by anything?

      Why won't the ship defend itself?
      The creation of Zumwalt meant a leap into the future, breaking away from opponents for tens of years at once. Takeoff to an altitude unattainable for others .... Such unattainable that they themselves did not succeed. And forms for the sake of invisibility are just one of the goals (breakthrough weapons systems: ultra-long-range AU, new UVPU with large dimensions, new movement system, great energy potential, improved radar capabilities, etc.). There was stealth PR, but where can we go without it ..? But, besides him, the Americans wanted to stuff a lot more into this "ocean monster", and it's very good that they didn't succeed ....
      Quote: paul3390
      I also understand the shock version - quietly flew up or swam to the right place ...

      This, as one of the options ...
      In any case, it is better to have a set of measures to reduce visibility than not to have them ...
  4. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 12 2021 10: 56
    +5
    ... when exchanging data in real time between Zamvolt and naval drones, regardless of protocols, the point in the stealth characteristics of a combat ship is lost.

    The meaning of stealth characteristics is very clear and it cannot be "lost". Zumwalt will not "shine" like the battleship Iowa. You can find and destroy any ship, only with new technologies (stealth, electronic warfare, etc.) it is much more difficult to do this ..
    We plan to use it as a floating command post, which will coordinate the activities of various types of marine drones and control them.

    It seems that this, the only correct solution for this ship is the command post. They will work out, and if something sensible comes out, then dozens of Berks will be modernized to solve a similar problem. Not the best (for us) option ...
    1. Andrey Korotkov
      Andrey Korotkov April 12 2021 11: 54
      +2
      Quote: Doccor18
      ... when exchanging data in real time between Zamvolt and naval drones, regardless of protocols, the point in the stealth characteristics of a combat ship is lost.

      The meaning of stealth characteristics is very clear and it cannot be "lost". Zumwalt will not "shine" like the battleship Iowa. You can find and destroy any ship, only with new technologies (stealth, electronic warfare, etc.) it is much more difficult to do this ..
      We plan to use it as a floating command post, which will coordinate the activities of various types of marine drones and control them.

      It seems that this, the only correct solution for this ship is the command post. They will work out, and if something sensible comes out, then dozens of Berks will be modernized to solve a similar problem. Not the best (for us) option ...

      There are few Z and it pleases.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder April 12 2021 15: 00
      0
      It seems that this, the only correct solution for this ship is the command post. Will work out
      Well, if we discard the possibility of potential and sometimes real disinformation, and look from the outside, then the use of an inconspicuous MCC to control various types of marine versions of UAVs, as a floating data center, with the ability to shoot 80 cells of the launcher, in extreme cases, if these same launchers , will remain there at all, what is not an option !? At least until electromagnetic accelerators went into mass technology ...
      1. lucul
        lucul April 12 2021 16: 31
        -1
        Well, if we discard the possibility of potential and sometimes real disinformation, and look from the outside, then the use of an inconspicuous MCC to control various types of marine versions of UAVs, as a floating data center, with the ability to shoot 80 cells of the launcher, in extreme cases, if these same launchers , will remain there at all, what is not an option !?

        There have already been projects for the modernization of our 941 Akula submarines into carriers of Caliber - 200 missiles on board. And stealth is higher than Zamvolt and the number of cells is greater. Considered impractical, against the backdrop of nuclear weapons.
  5. Aleksandr97
    Aleksandr97 April 12 2021 11: 02
    +3
    With the electromagnet cannon, an embarrassment happened. Controlling a swarm of drones in the modern trend. The $ 3,2 billion ship, plus $ 4,0 billion life cycle cost, has finally found a "worthy" use ...
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 12 2021 11: 08
    +5
    Zumwalt
    They built, trumpeted the whole world, made excuses for frequent breakdowns, and now they have been racking their brains for years on how and what to use them for. In fact, once again the money (4 billion apiece) is practically down the drain. And how many supporters of this "miracle" of marine technology were on the site, how many minuses were handed out to the critics.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 April 12 2021 11: 24
      +8
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Zumwalt
      And how many supporters of this "miracle" of marine technology were on the site ...

      But will you agree that the idea was enchanting? Worthy of Tom Clancy's novels ...
  7. RealPilot
    RealPilot April 12 2021 11: 09
    0
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Damn, it's a pity that the Merikatos didn't have time! So much dough would be blown away!
    It would be good if Kiev would be given one of these ... only for servicing, he would have eaten up the entire budget of Ukraine ... and this is without taking into account corruption.

    And then I would have sailed to the Russian Sevastopol for cutting. laughing
  8. yfast
    yfast April 12 2021 12: 08
    +5
    The coolest zamvolt is any quiet submarine.
  9. MrFox
    MrFox April 12 2021 12: 19
    -2
    With effective equipment, signals can be monitored

    Ai well done author, he laid the straws. Does it exist, is it effective equipment? Which Spread Spectrum communication line operating at the noise level will take direction finding?
  10. ironic
    ironic April 12 2021 12: 47
    -1
    Mr. Who are these illiterate, not even tested for elementary already known data, writes? The Zumvolt concept originally envisioned the use of drones. What does his stealth have to do with it? Are the command posts of drones so easy to spot today? Shchaz three times. And their sulfur was reduced to three ships, the States always start with three. Damn well, just to squeeze something.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder April 12 2021 15: 06
      -1
      Mr. Who are these illiterate, not even tested for elementary already known data, writes
      Hush, comrade - minusers are about to hit ... stop There is one good thing above you, already mentioned, like:
      Spread Spectrum operating at noise level
      , and to it there is also an ultra-wide spectrum of digital signals, in the fading channel and let them look for: "a drop in the Ocean"! wassat
      1. ironic
        ironic April 12 2021 18: 45
        -2
        That I am already the leader of the forum on the minuses. "Who could be better than my Matilda?" (C) laughing
  11. Thorvlobnor IV
    Thorvlobnor IV April 12 2021 13: 01
    +1
    It's an interesting idea with drones if they make it so that they will have an "identity" mode for Zamwalt in terms of radio signature and IR signature. When there are a dozen of your "electromagnetic clones" around you, the likelihood of being hit by an anti-ship missile is so reduced.
  12. faterdom
    faterdom April 12 2021 14: 07
    0
    They can also fish for tuna. Although, in this he is much worse than a trawler.
    Amazing ship, apart from the price - no records.
    Only the invisible hand of the market can arm the US NAVI so effectively.
    1. ironic
      ironic April 12 2021 18: 48
      -5
      Yes, no. The complexity of the project is one, like half of the Russian fleet. Nakhimov has been modernized for 10 years, which is easier than creating a project for a Zumvolt-class ship. And so yes, it is not remarkable at all.
  13. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst April 12 2021 15: 24
    0
    How will domestic supporters of light aircraft carriers with drones respond to the argumentation of the article and comments?
    1. lucul
      lucul April 12 2021 16: 34
      +1
      How will domestic supporters of light aircraft carriers with drones respond to the argumentation of the article and comments?

      The fact that the submarine has a higher stealth than Zamwolt)))
      1. ironic
        ironic April 12 2021 18: 48
        -3
        Yes, but the range of weapons is narrower.