Military Review

Could the Red Army help the insurgent Warsaw?

127
The Warsaw armed uprising of August 1944 of the year remains the most controversial episode of the Second World War; this event causes a lot of questions and misunderstandings among both Polish and Russian historians and among ordinary citizens living in both countries.


And if the Poles for the most part continue to believe that the Red Army in August 1944 simply stood on the banks of the Vistula and watched indifferently as the fascists destroyed the insurgent population of the Polish capital, Russian researchers with facts on their hands prove that there was no indifferent contemplation , and there were brutal and bloody battles with the enemy, which took place at that time in the Warsaw direction, in which tens of thousands of Soviet soldiers and commanders were killed, as well as our allies - soldiers and officers of the Polish Army.

Could the Red Army help the insurgent Warsaw?
Warsaw rebels on captured German Sd.Kfz 251 armored personnel carrier

Polish rebels on the armor of a captured German fighter tanks Hetzer (Jagdpanzer 38 (t) Hetzer) in the courtyard of the Warsaw Central Post Office

Polish insurgents at the captured German tank "Panther" at the corner of Okopnoy (Okopnoi) and Zhitnaya (Żytniej) streets in Warsaw


In this connection, the question arises involuntarily: how did this uprising happen? Who prepared it and for what, what did the consequences of this poorly planned and not thoughtful armed intervention lead to?

Of stories The Second World War knows that after Germany defeated Poland in September 1939, first in France, and after its occupation in London, a Polish émigré government was formed, headed by General V. Sikorski, until the attack on the Soviet Union to the USSR, an open hostile position, based on the well-known concept that Poland has two eternal enemies - Russia and Germany.

In Poland itself, at the beginning of 1940, the so-called “Union of Armed Struggle” (SRB) was created for armed struggle against the German occupiers, most commonly known as the Craiova Army, that is, “internal” or “domestic” army (AK). This organization was strictly subordinate to the emigre government in London, its military leader was the commander of all Polish armed forces in exile, General K. Sosnkowski, extremely hostile to the Soviet Union, was also another important point that impeded normal relations. The fact is that the Polish emigre government headed by Sikorski categorically at that time refused to recognize the borders of the USSR established after September 1939 of the year, that is, to include the territories of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus in the USSR, and this despite the recognition of the new Union along the so-called “Curzon Line” from all Western Allies at a conference in Tehran in 1943.

The captain of the company "Koshta" (Koszta) Stefan Mich (Stefan Mich) monitors the movement of German troops on the opposite bank of the Vistula from the upper floor of the building on Napoleon Square in Warsaw

Polish rebels on vacation at the central post office on Napoleon Square

Warsaw rebels of the Kosta company (Koszta) run across the intersection of Sinkevyz and Szienkiewicz and Marszałkowska streets during an attack


Back in October, X. NUMX, General T. Komorowski prepared a plan for an armed uprising in Warsaw, this plan was supposed to seize the capital with a sudden blow, then land the Polish parachute brigade there in a few days, and prepare all the necessary conditions for the solemn arrival of the émigré government from London liberated by the Polish national forces of Warsaw. At the same time, parts of the AK, according to the plan of Komorowski, were supposed to provide armed resistance to parts of the Red Army advancing on Warsaw, as well as troops stationed in territories that had entered Eastern Poland until September 1943. Further more, one of the representatives of the emigre government in a memo addressed to the then head of government in exile Mikolajczyk, who took this post after Sikorsky’s death, 1939 demanded from 10 in January, in addition to the return of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, to include The composition of Poland is East Prussia, Silesia and Lithuania. Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine were supposed to be generally made independent states, of course, under Polish control. Being in warm offices in London, Polish statesmen obviously lived their own invented lives, planned grand state plans, not knowing what was happening in their homeland, not knowing that 1944 had already been going on for a year and that from their immigrant almost nothing depends on governments, these plans were a real adventure that everyone understood, even their main sponsors - the Western allies. In connection with the terry anti-Sovietism of the Polish rulers, even the British, their main allies, could not stand it, so in February 1944, Churchill demanded that Mikolajczyk remove the most anti-Soviet elements (including Sosnkowski) from the government and recognize the new eastern borders of Poland. The British had their own political interests; they didn’t want to spoil relations with the USSR because of some mythical allies, while they bore all the main burdens and deprivations of war on the main eastern front.

Even more interesting, the British invited the AK command to coordinate their actions during the uprising, to plan all their actions against the German troops only in close cooperation with the Red Army command, while the use of the Polish Airborne Brigade in the interests of the AK was banned, and the support of the rebels from the air aviation the British also considered it an extremely risky undertaking, and therefore this request was also refused by AK.

The essence of the plan of the uprising, developed by the AK headquarters, was that in the near future the German army itself would leave the Polish capital. It was necessary only to have time to take power in the city before the entry of Soviet troops into it, for which, according to the plan's planners, it was necessary to quickly seize the main government buildings in order to immediately place in them the authorities of the emigrant government. Thus, it was supposed to confront all the Soviet units and the newly created Polish authorities that approached Warsaw by the accomplished fact of seizing power, therefore no coordination with the advancing Soviet forces was foreseen. The whole concept of the uprising proceeded from a brief, calculated maximum of 2 — 3 of the day and a relatively bloodless struggle against the retreating German forces. Moreover, in order not to delay the withdrawal of German troops to the west, the plan specifically excluded the seizure of the most important transport communications, including strategically important bridges over the Vistula.

Warsaw rebel, lieutenant Jerzy Siwiec of the Anna company of the Gustav battalion throws a Stielhandgranate-24 grenade from Slepezh street to the German position on Zamkova Square (pl. Zamkowym)

A group of Warsaw postans of the Costa battalion (Koszta), armed with flamethrowers. The photo was taken near the Ulrich Shop on the corner of Marshalkowska (Marszalkowskiej) and Manyushko Street (Moniuszki)

Warsaw rebels Henrik "Heniok Ozarek (Henryk Ożarek" Henio ") (left) and Tadeusz" Roma "Przybyshevsky (Tadeusz Przybyszewski" Roma "), from the company" Anna "battalion" Gustav ". Ozarek is armed with a pistol Vis wz. 35, and Przybyshevsky with the Blyskavitsa submachine gun


As the unfolding events showed, the command of the rebels absolutely did not possess information about the actions of the Germans and especially about the situation prevailing on the Soviet-German front by the end of July, and the situation there was clearly not in favor of the Red Army, the Poles did not know that in late July Hitler gave order to keep Warsaw at all costs, a lot of selected troops, including those from the SS, were brought up to the capital, that is, the time for the start of the uprising was chosen the most unfortunate.

According to Polish and Soviet sources, it is known that according to the lists in the Warsaw District of AK, there were about 30 thousands of fighters, which was almost twice the German garrison, but the rebels were armed with all 47 machine guns, 657 machine guns, 29 anti-tank guns, 2629 rifles, 2665 pistols and 50 thousand grenades. The insurgents were completely absent from the insurgents, as the AK command was not going to fight the enemy’s tanks and aircraft so far, apparently, for AK it was not the main thing, and the main thing was probably the rapid seizure of the city center and the placement of immigrant government in the government buildings. , then defense, to prevent the Red Army from entering Warsaw, and the Germans, according to the plans of the AK leaders, should have left themselves, but the Germans simply did not want to leave Warsaw. As a result of the adventure, started by the ambitious London émigré politicians, the most terrible thing happened: they had to pay thousands of ordinary citizens of Poland, thousands of Soviet and Polish soldiers for this adventure.

By the end of July, 1944, the troops of the 1 of the Byelorussian Front, stationed near Warsaw, having passed more than 600 km with continuous battles, were extremely exhausted. In addition, the rear areas were far behind, there was also no reliable air cover for the front forces, since the 16-I air army had not yet managed to redeploy to the airfields closest to the front. So, for the Soviet command, the uprising began at the most inopportune moment, for it attracted the close attention of the Hitlerites to Warsaw, who transferred additional forces of selective tank forces here. The Germans themselves admitted that at the time of the beginning of the uprising the power of the Russian strike had already dried up.

Having correctly assessed the situation, the German command decided to put a powerful tank counter-attack from Warsaw to the rear of the Soviet bridgehead on the Vistula. For these purposes, almost 5 armored divisions were deployed, deployed from Romania, Holland and Italy. In total near Warsaw at the end of July the Germans concentrated 51,5 thousand soldiers and officers, 1158 guns and mortars, 600 tanks and SPG. The Soviet 2-th Guards Tank Army, which was closest to the Polish capital, had only 32 thousand soldiers, 468 guns and mortars, 425 tanks and SPG. Having struck from three sides, the Germans actually surrounded and destroyed the 3 tank corps of the 2 army and 2 — 3 of August rejected Soviet troops from Warsaw, who lost more than 280 tanks on the approaches to the city and were forced to go on the defensive.

Understanding perfectly the seriousness of the situation on the Soviet-German front that emerged at the end of July, that the Red Army is currently shackled by battles with German troops, the AK leadership nevertheless 1 of August 1944 of the year still issued an order to start the uprising, which the imigrant The Polish leadership, giving such an order, in the difficult situation prevailing around Warsaw at that time, is still incomprehensible, and sometimes it seems that the AK leadership acted according to a well-known principle - rebellion for the sake of Ania.

Volley of German 28 / 32 jet plants cm Wurfgerät 42 201 heavy mortar battery (s.Stellg.Wrf.Btr. 201) in Warsaw against rebels attacking the Old Town

Polish civilian near the body of a woman killed by a German air raid on insurgent Warsaw


The German command, having stabilized the situation on the eastern front, began systematically suppressing the uprising on August 8, and in street battles mainly SS special forces, police, and units consisting of Bandera, Vlasovites and other traitors were involved in fighting the rebels. former citizens of the USSR. At the same time, Hitler's command acted prudently, using primarily the disconnectedness of the rebels, with the German methodological approach, in turn, all identified resistance centers were destroyed, while heavy tools and even armored trains, as well as tanks and flamethrowers were used. The rebels suffered significant losses, and soon began to feel the lack of ammunition. Instead of organizing close cooperation with the troops of the Red Army, adjusting supplies, the AK leadership, realizing the futility of the uprising, began to look for those responsible for their defeat, specifically launching disinformation through the British and American media that the USSR and even the closest allies of the AK, the British.

Attempts of the British aviation with small forces to carry out discharges over Warsaw weapons and food, as it was supposed, turned out to be extremely inefficient, since the losses of the enemy's anti-aircraft fire bomber were disproportionately heavy, on average one downed plane fell to a ton of cargo dropped. At the same time, most of the cargo, especially during the last departures, fell into the hands of the Germans, since the dumps had to be carried out from high altitudes. Unlike the British, the actions of our pilots were more successful because they operated at extremely low altitudes, thanks to Soviet pilots only for the period from September 14 to October 1, 1944, the rebels received 156 mortars, 505 anti-tank guns, 2667 machine guns and rifles, 41 780 grenades, 3 million cartridges, 113 tons of food and other payloads.

Throughout August, the Soviet command did not abandon its attempts to break through to Warsaw, and only 10 September 1944, the 47 Army and the 1 Army, the Polish Army launched an offensive against Warsaw. They were opposed by the 100-thousandth group of Germans, whose average density was one division per 5 — 6 km of front. Persistent fighting ensued for the eastern part of Warsaw and its suburb - Prague. For the second time in the history of the Russians, again in a fierce battle, they took this suburb, for the first time under the great A. Suvorov. And on the night of September 14, Soviet troops finally reached the Vistula, when it was necessary to start an uprising with a blow from the city to seize bridges towards the Red Army, but the main forces of the insurgents were already destroyed by the Germans captive, the commander of the remaining forces of the rebels Komorowski did not want to make his way to the meeting of the Red Army through the Vistula and October 2. 1944 signed a surrender agreement with the German commander in Warsaw, the SS general von dem Bach-Zelewski. Captured, according to various sources, from 17 to 20 thousands of rebels, including officer AK 922 along with the entire headquarters of Komorowski. Detachments of the Army of the People left the city and partially made their way through the Vistula. The losses of the German troops were also significant, 10 thousand soldiers were killed, six thousand were missing, according to other sources, the Germans lost almost 26 thousand, as well as 300 tanks, SAU, guns and armored vehicles.

As a result of the uprising, civilian casualties were especially high, for example, during the fighting in the city, from artillery shelling, bombing and small-scale fire, up to 200 thousand Poles died, of all those killed, the rebels made 16 thousand, according to other sources - 23 thousand. the civilians of Warsaw, all those who survived all this horror, the Germans took out of the city, 87 thousand people were forced to work in Germany. During the uprising, the Nazis destroyed 25 percent of the area of ​​pre-war development of the city. Up until the liberation of Warsaw, the 17 of January 1945, part of the SS, at the direction of Himmler, systematically blew up all the cultural monuments. After the liberation of the capital, before the Soviet and Polish troops entering Warsaw appeared a terrible picture, comparable only to the apocalypse: the fascist barbarians razed the most beautiful city of Europe almost completely flush with the ground, leaving only ruins, grief and death behind them.

Especially for those who still believe that the Red Army did not help the insurgent Warsawians in any way, I want to cite the following figures: only the troops of the 1 of the Belarusian Front lost on the outskirts of Warsaw during the month and a half of the fighting from early August to the first half of September 1944 of the year 166 808 of Soviet soldiers and commanders, over the 600 of thousands of soldiers and officers of the Red Army, our compatriots, died in total for the liberation of Poland. Eternal memory to them ...

SS soldiers during the suppression of the Warsaw Uprising. Armed with MP-40 submachine gun and shortened Mauser 98K rifles

German prisoners captured by the Warsaw rebels

An SS man captured by Warsaw rebels near the building of the Polish Telephone Joint Stock Company

Polish insurgents and medical women in a stretcher with a wounded comrade

Polish women prepare food for rebels in the kitchen of the cafe Ardiya in the 10 house on Moniuszko Street (ul. Moniuszki 10) in Warsaw

Warsaw rebels with English PIAT grenade launchers

Warsaw children in a German tank Pz.Kpfw IV, burned by insurgents on Gorokhovskaya street 14 September 1944, during the Warsaw Uprising

Polish rebels reading a German leaflet during the Warsaw Uprising

Fighters of the Polish resistance on the barricade, located at the intersection of Svetokryzhskoy and Mazovian

Warsaw rebel, armed with a Soviet PPSh machine gun

Warsaw rebels dressed in German uniform in street combat

Warsaw rebels inspect war trophies, including an armband with the name "Wiking"
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  1. Tirpitz
    Tirpitz 28 August 2012 10: 02
    22
    The Poles are still Jews. They wanted to eat fish and sit down. With the Germans this is not a ride.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 10: 28
      +1
      You villain Mr. Tirpitz! Whatever mistakes the AK command made, but tens of thousands of Poles died with weapons in their hands while fighting against Our common enemy. And only a person writing under the nickname of a Nazi battleship cannot see this.
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 28 August 2012 11: 11
        20
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Whatever mistakes the AK command made, but tens of thousands of Poles died with weapons in their hands while fighting against Our common enemy.

        But no one belittles the heroism and the general contribution of ordinary Polish citizens who died in arms while fighting a common enemy. But Tirpitz is right about the Polish emigrant government and the leadership of AK-here.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 28 August 2012 14: 31
          0
          Quote: revnagan
          But no one belittles the heroism and the general contribution of ordinary Polish citizens who died in arms while fighting a common enemy. But Tirpitz is right about the Polish emigrant government and the leadership of AK-here.

          Note Tirpitz did not write anything about AK and the Polish government, but compared the Polish people with the Jewish people in a degrading way!
          I think that this is fascism in a soft form!
          1. Set
            Set 28 August 2012 17: 16
            +3
            The more attacks on the Jewish people, the stronger it is. In this case, they wanted to shame the Jews!
          2. Mr.Advokat
            Mr.Advokat 29 August 2012 04: 41
            0
            Fascism is unlikely, but nationalism is, in my opinion, for sure.
      2. Straus_zloy
        Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 11: 47
        22
        Firstly, to find fault with nicknames is a sign of not a very big mind.
        Secondly, on Tirpitz’s avatar, it’s not the fascist battleship, but Grand Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz (1849-1930), learn the mate part before such accusations.
        Thirdly, he is right, the Poles are still cunning handsome
        1. bachast
          bachast 28 August 2012 13: 41
          0
          This is another question, whom to teach materiel.
          Poles are still those Jews

          Poles and Jews are two completely different people. Let Tirpitz explain what he wants to say. The Poles are still Ukrainians and it will still be closer to reality
          1. Straus_zloy
            Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 14: 04
            0
            Poles and Jews are two completely different people

            Thanks, Cap

            Let Tirpitz explain what he wants to say

            I think he put it very clearly

            The Poles are still Ukrainians and it will still be closer to reality

            More likely Litvinov
            1. bachast
              bachast 28 August 2012 14: 34
              -2
              And let's do it without demagogy? Two questions.
              1. Explain what he wanted to say. (I think he put it very clearly)
              2. Who is closer as a people to each other- / Poles-Jews / or / Poles-Ukrainians /
              1. Straus_zloy
                Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 14: 44
                +1
                1. the word Jews has long been used not only to denote a people, but also as a common name for crafty people. I don’t want to go into the historical reasons for this.
                It is clear that he did not mean the similarity of Poles and Jews as peoples.
                2. Read paragraph one
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 28 August 2012 14: 54
                  +1
                  Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.
                  Quote: Straus_zloy
                  1. the word Jews has long been used not only to denote a people, but also as a common name for crafty people. I don’t want to go into the historical reasons for this.
                  This word is used as a common noun and for a long time by-RESIDENTS and Fascists!
                  This was the beginning of Nazism !!
                2. bachast
                  bachast 28 August 2012 15: 01
                  +1
                  Common Name for Cunning People

                  Well, this is a violation of the site’s rules in this case (besides stupidity). But since insulting the Jews as a people here is not a violation, the sixth warning is likely to be given to me, not Tirpitz)) if we continue. By the way, your flag is associated with me fascism and NATO. Conclusion, you are the enemy?
                  Funny video. Still with Ukrainian subtitles
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 28 August 2012 15: 07
                    +2
                    Quote: bachast
                    Well, this is a violation of the site’s rules in this case (in addition to stupidity). But since insulting the Jews as a people here is not a violation, I’ll most likely receive the sixth warning,

                    Since in this case I completely agree with you, then if it passes I will leave this site!
                    I know the loss for the site will not be great, but I think everyone in this case should clearly state their citizenship !!
                    1. bachast
                      bachast 28 August 2012 15: 16
                      +4
                      Oh no, Alibek, I’m not trying to confront. I don’t need to leave)) I’m just trying to speak normal language with them. How many photos were posted here of the heroes of Jews, Chechens and others. Well, if Berezovsky, for example, is an asshole, he’s really an asshole and with that no one argues. And their generalization is not necessary here. This should be clear to some. Do not leave wink
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 28 August 2012 15: 36
                        -1
                        Isaac!
                        16 people plus comment Tirpitz!
                        These are 16 potential fascists!
                        Where are we going!?
                        Why did our grandfathers fight ??
                        For the evil ostriches ??
                        For this you spilled your blood ????
                      2. Straus_zloy
                        Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 15: 58
                        +1
                        16 people plus comment Tirpitz!
                        These are 16 potential fascists!


                        Do you hear yourself?

                        Why did our grandfathers fight ??
                        For the evil ostriches ??


                        No need to be rude, I have both grandfathers gone through the whole war.
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 28 August 2012 16: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Straus_zloy
                        Do you hear yourself?

                        Well, I am writing for you to hear!
                        Quote: Straus_zloy
                        No need to be rude, I have both grandfathers gone through the whole war.

                        I’m afraid that they would be ashamed of you now!
                      4. Straus_zloy
                        Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 17: 04
                        0
                        I’m afraid that they would be ashamed of you now!

                        Try to explain why.
                    2. Aaron Zawi
                      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 18: 10
                      +2
                      And I both fought. My family is an ambassador to the front of 11 people, including 2 women. 6 came from the front. Therefore, I CANNOT understand how you can speak with an approving smile about what kind of Germans are great and with them "this will not work."
                    3. Straus_zloy
                      Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 19: 26
                      0
                      I looked through the entire branch, nowhere did I find that the Germans were good fellows or some other praise for them. Your remark from the series "I thought it up myself - I got offended myself."
                    4. Aaron Zawi
                      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 20: 17
                      +1
                      the whole branch is not needed. It is enough to read the first message of Mr. “Tirpitz.” They say the Poles are so smart-ass wanted to defend their national interests without asking big uncles, but the Germans and their allies are serious guys and these Polish things will not go with them. How not to twist the proposal, and spitting in the direction of the Poles and curtsy to the Germans can be seen without binoculars.
                    5. Straus_zloy
                      Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 21: 01
                      +1
                      Recognition of the seriousness of the adversary is still not a reverence for him
            2. Nuar
              Nuar 30 August 2012 15: 05
              0
              +1
              (though there are 28 consonants with Tirpitz sad )

              Pe Se. Why stick time limit! Return the opportunity to plus / minus comments.
        2. bachast
          bachast 29 August 2012 05: 54
          0
          Which was to be proved. Sixth warning. Now I have caught up with you Alibek wink
          Banshee subtly felt the moment))
        3. Mr.Advokat
          Mr.Advokat 29 August 2012 20: 08
          0
          I have long noticed that this site is full of cheers-patriots who would only tear their throats. Now, if you stupidly glorify Russians (no matter whether they are on business or not - the main thing is that Russians are good, and everyone else is shit), then you have respect and pluses. And as soon as you say something that is not in unison, you express your point of view - then it started, cons, high to heaven and a bucket of smelly nonsense. Here is the article that we are commenting on here - it is also provocative in nature. It emphasizes the following: bad Poles of their own were knocked out of the insurrection, and then they all blamed on the Russians. Everything is simplified to the impossible in the article. It seems that the Poles are so stupid that they did not understand the situation and took and carried out some kind of order from London. Well, so stupid that they painted castles in the air. I do not believe in it - everything could not be so primitive. He told about his observations, supported by a concrete analysis of the author’s statements - immediately the patriots climbed out, naminusovali. Here is such a wonderful site and its visitors.
      3. Straus_zloy
        Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 15: 57
        +2
        Don't talk nonsense.

        Firstly, he did not mean to offend the Jews, do not cling to the words, the article is actually about the Poles.
        Secondly, the fact that this is a common name is so historically developed, regardless of my or your attitude to this
        Thirdly, I would not even raise the topic of anti-Semitism in this context, because you like it or not, but the Polish people have a part of the blame for the extermination of Jews during the Second World War. Have you ever wondered why the main concentration camps were built specifically in Poland, where the population itself handed over Jews to the Nazis and not to say in Denmark?
        After the German occupation of Denmark and after the occupants ordered all Jews to wear the Star of David on their chests, King Christian X went out in public in solidarity with the Star of David on his chest.
        Is there a difference right?
        What you associate my flag with me is violet, the flags on the site define tc incorrectly.
        1. Taratut
          Taratut 28 August 2012 20: 33
          -7
          Quote: Straus_zloy
          the Polish people are partly responsible for the extermination of Jews during the Second World War

          As in the Soviet.
          In the USSR, Jews were almost completely destroyed.
          Largely thanks to local denunciations. For two packs of shag handed over.
          1. Strategy
            Strategy 28 August 2012 20: 57
            0
            Could you elaborate on the total extermination of Jews in the USSR?
      4. wow
        wow 28 August 2012 19: 32
        0
        Unfinished movie! It's like that ! My "historical relatives" are decent by and large.
  2. Bosk
    Bosk 31 August 2012 00: 40
    0
    He wanted to say that the Poles wanted to outwit everyone ... like ours come to Warsaw and they control everything, well, like sori ... like stomp further into Berlin and we will somehow manage ourselves here, but they underestimated the Germans in their plans.
  • Bosk
    Bosk 31 August 2012 00: 35
    0
    Poles and Litvin Slavs ......
  • Tirpitz
    Tirpitz 28 August 2012 15: 55
    +2
    Quote: bachast
    Poles and Jews are two completely different people

    I know that very well. Sly Poles - that’s what I wanted to say.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 28 August 2012 16: 09
      +1
      Quote: Tirpitz
      Sly Poles - that’s what I wanted to say.
      Dear Tirpitz, it would be easier for you and I think it would be much better if you wrote what you WANTED to say, and not what you already wrote there!
  • Alex
    Alex 27 January 2014 23: 45
    +1
    Quote: bachast
    Poles and Jews are two completely different people.

    The Poles are still Ukrainians and it will still be closer to reality
    And you, I see, an expert in national politics. Well, well, God help you ...
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 28 August 2012 20: 13
    0
    Quote: Straus_zloy
    Firstly, to find fault with nicknames is a sign of not a very big mind.

    and to call the Poles those Jews still is a sign of a great mind ??
  • ward
    ward 28 August 2012 11: 48
    +1
    Aron, I also think that this uprising had its own selfish interest ... but what is annoying is the silence of the Jewish uprising in the ghetto ... this is a pure act of despair ... in my opinion then no one helped them with anything ... plus. ..
  • Tirpitz
    Tirpitz 28 August 2012 11: 53
    +1
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    And only a person writing under the nickname of a Nazi battleship cannot see this.

    I do not have a battleship on the avatar. Read the story.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 13: 59
      +1
      It's just that you Mr. "Tirpitz" did not take an avatar in honor of Admirals Makarov or Kuznetsov? Is it an accident or your choice? request
      1. Tirpitz
        Tirpitz 28 August 2012 15: 50
        0
        That's right, it's my choice.
        Tirpitz prepared a plan to create a powerful fleet that would allow Germany to gain credibility on the world stage, the so-called “Tirpitz Plan”. Thanks to its implementation, by 1914, the fleet of the German Empire in its power occupied the second place in the world, being inferior to the British fleet in size by 40%

        And all this in a very short time. for this and chose.
  • Cesar_Xnumx
    Cesar_Xnumx 28 August 2012 12: 58
    +9
    Poles have never been our allies, and did not treat us loyally. Why would we support them ?! They can only remember about Katyn.
    1. Taratut
      Taratut 28 August 2012 15: 12
      -4
      Quote: Cesar_001
      They can only remember about Katyn.

      Would you personally forgive the execution of your father or grandfather?
      1. Andy
        Andy 28 August 2012 19: 15
        +5
        But what did your grandfather or father do in the 20s with the captured Red Army men? so if they banged, then for the deed. this is my opinion
        1. Taratut
          Taratut 28 August 2012 20: 35
          -2
          Read "Soviet-Polish wars" by Meltyukhov, my friend.
          The percentage of Red Army soldiers who died in Polish captivity and the Poles in our country is approximately the same.
          So you have a choice - either our Poles did not torment us, or we systematically destroyed the Poles.
          1. Zynaps
            Zynaps 29 August 2012 00: 29
            +2
            tell me, it’s tricked, where did the Poles in the USSR come from already into three armies? first to Anders, then to the First and Second Army of the Polish Army?

            if in our captivity the Poles riled and spread rot just like they did our Red Army men in the Tukhol and Stshalkovo camps, then why would the Poles playfully run to the service under the banner of the Red Army?

            Do you even use brains sometimes?
      2. Zynaps
        Zynaps 29 August 2012 00: 25
        +1
        clan, for starters bring evidence of the execution of the Poles in Katyn. where are the personal documents of the executed? Why were burials of approximately 700 Soviet citizens discovered next to them? why in all graves the laying of corpses was applied according to the method typical for German executions? by whom and when did the conclusions of the Burdenko commission officially disavow?

        and in general, familiarize yourself with the official position of the Government of the Russian Federation on the Volk-Yezerskaya case (there are scans of documents on the network) from 2010 at the level of Deputy Minister of Justice of the Russian Federation. Katyn Poles officially recognized as missing, allegedly shot by Germans in 1941
        1. Taratut
          Taratut 29 August 2012 08: 58
          -2
          What is clown?
          Quote: Zynaps
          tell me, it’s tricked, where did the Poles in the USSR come from already into three armies? first to Anders, then to the First and Second Army of the Polish Army?

          In these armies were not only ethnic Poles. And many Poles lived in the USSR. Many were recruited from the camps.


          Quote: Zynaps
          if in our captivity the Poles riled and spread rot just like they did our Red Army men in the Tukhol and Stshalkovo camps, then why would the Poles playfully run to the service under the banner of the Red Army?

          I don’t know about the cases of the Poles escaping, but the Red Army men sometimes turned to the Poles with whole units. The fact is well known.


          Quote: Zynaps
          Do you even use brains sometimes?

          Yes, and I recommend you.


          Quote: Zynaps
          First, give evidence of the execution of the Poles in Katyn

          What MORE evidence is needed if the fact is already recognized at the level of the country's leadership?


          Quote: Zynaps
          by whom and when did the conclusions of the Burdenko commission officially disavow?

          Chief Military Prosecutor's Office in 1991.
          1. Zynaps
            Zynaps 29 August 2012 17: 42
            0
            Quote: Taratut
            In these armies were not only ethnic Poles. And many Poles lived in the USSR. Many were recruited from the camps.


            here I mean those from the camps. there you are a trendel about "but if your family ..." so what is the motivation of the Poles from the camp to go under the banner of the Red Army?

            Quote: Taratut
            I don’t know about the cases of the Poles escaping, but the Red Army men sometimes turned to the Poles with whole units. The fact is well known.


            when some lamer talks about a well-known case, it usually means that he either invented it or read it out in the "murzilka". share a fat source.

            Quote: Taratut
            Yes, and I recommend you.


            Recommended grow for starters and teach your wife how to cook.

            Quote: Taratut
            What MORE evidence is needed if the fact is already recognized at the level of the country's leadership?


            you're some kind of illiterate. statements in the press are not official recognition. all the more so because Putya has repeatedly said that it is not known who exactly shot the Poles. Tell me exactly where, officially, with the publication of documents this is said.

            Quote: Taratut
            Chief Military Prosecutor's Office in 1991.


            sure sure. which bear traces of gross fake and are not accepted by the court for consideration. look for something more reliable. Where are the personal files of the Poles?
            1. Taratut
              Taratut 29 August 2012 20: 53
              0
              Quote: Zynaps
              Well, so what is the motivation of the Poles from the camp to go under the banner of the Red Army?

              Is it better to die in the Gulag?
              Well then, what is the motivation to fight the son of a shot fist? Or a peasant who died of starvation in 1933?

              Quote: Zynaps
              when some lamer talks about a well-known case, it usually means that he either invented it or read it out in the "murzilka". share a fat source.

              Labor "Secrecy label removed".
              Page 34.
              "On the Western Front, older servicemen, due to their unwillingness to fight, voluntarily surrendered. On the South-Western Front, in a number of formations, the natives of the Don and Kuban, without exception, voluntarily went over to the enemy's side."
              Link to archival funds
              Not a murzilka, no?

              Quote: Zynaps
              Recommended grow for starters and teach wife soup

              The fact that you are a boor I have long understood. But, I hope, at least a smart boor?

              Quote: Zynaps
              tell me exactly where, officially, with the publication of documents this is said

              On April 13, 1990, during a visit to Moscow by Jaruzelsky, a TASS statement was published on the Katyn tragedy, which read:
              The revealed archival materials in total allow us to conclude that there is direct responsibility for the atrocities in the Katyn forest of Beria, Merkulov and their henchmen.
              The Soviet side, expressing deep regret at the Katyn tragedy, declares that it represents one of the serious crimes of Stalinism.
              April 28, 2010, at the request of D. A. Medvedev, the documents of "package No. 1" were officially published on the website of the Federal Archives
              On November 26, 2010, the Russian State Duma, with opposition from the Communist Party faction [11], adopted a statement “On the Katyn tragedy and its victims”, which recognizes the shooting of Katyn as a crime committed by direct order of Stalin and other Soviet leaders, and expresses sympathy for the Polish people [ 96]:
              In 2011, Russian officials announced their readiness to consider the rehabilitation of victims of execution.
  • valokordin
    valokordin 28 August 2012 13: 15
    +2
    Aronchik, do not be angry, these dogs are breeding, they do not like you like us.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 13: 34
      +3
      I am not angry, but I treat everyone who fought with the Nazis in the Allied armies, in partisans and in the Resistance with great respect. And here it was ironically dismissive of the tens of thousands who died in the fight against the Nazis, and even approving of the Nazis and their minions, supposedly well done, tore the Poles. You can minus my reaction as much as you want, I expressed my opinion.
      1. Andy
        Andy 28 August 2012 19: 22
        0
        Aron, the Poles and the Nazis oh how much in common. they even wanted to create a great Poland with their help, but because of trifles and Polish ambition, dreams collapsed. to remind how the Anders army was formed, fed, and they didn’t want to go to the front with the Germans (then, thank God the parasites, they threw it out). How about recalling our shots? And are you stuffing these with us as allies ?!

        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 20: 19
          +1
          from 1 of September 1939 of the year to 8 of May of 1945 of the year, more than 1 million were fought on all fronts and in all the Allied Armies. Poles.
          1. Strategy
            Strategy 28 August 2012 21: 05
            +3
            Due to the aggressiveness of Poland in the plans of war (plans for the use of armed forces) of ALL of its neighbors, Poland was considered the MAIN and most likely enemy, moreover, AGGRESSOR. Read military-historical works on this subject, study archives.
          2. Alex
            Alex 27 January 2014 23: 57
            +1
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            from 1 of September 1939 of the year to 8 of May of 1945 of the year, more than 1 million were fought on all fronts and in all the Allied Armies. Poles.
            The keywords are in all armies Allies. But in some ways I agree with you: any person who fought against Nazism deserves at least respect. Whatever nationality he had a liver.
        2. Taratut
          Taratut 28 August 2012 20: 38
          0
          You can specifically - who wanted what?
          The Poles refused an alliance with Hitler.
          Anders army fought with the Germans, so it was not for nothing that they fed. And it is hardly particularly satisfying.
          1. Zynaps
            Zynaps 29 August 2012 00: 30
            +1
            Quote: Taratut
            The Poles refused an alliance with Hitler.


            it turned out that the Germans already supported Poland’s intentions for the occupation of Lithuania with pleasure. just business. Yes, and with Czechoslovakia inconveniently happened ...
            1. Taratut
              Taratut 29 August 2012 08: 59
              0
              Quote: Zynaps
              it turned out that the Germans already supported Poland’s intentions for the occupation of Lithuania with pleasure

              About pleasure I do not know. And they refused - read the transcript of Beck’s negotiations with Hitler from 5.01.39
              1. Zynaps
                Zynaps 29 August 2012 17: 45
                0
                you first read Dyukov’s answers to the lamers on the topic of the Nonaggression Pact.

                did you read Bek yourself, a cardboard fool? Well, the Poles had the first friend of Nazi Germany and he pursued a corresponding policy. I, eslicho, about Jozef Beck. in your parallel reality, apparently, some other Beck.
                1. Taratut
                  Taratut 29 August 2012 20: 59
                  -1
                  Read, enlighten.
                  http://www.katyn-books.ru/archive/year/God_krizisa_1t_2t.htm#103doc
                  1. Aleksys2
                    Aleksys2 29 August 2012 22: 29
                    0
                    Quote: Taratut
                    Read, enlighten.

                    Enlightened:
                    Beck explained that this is now impossible, the activities of the Comintern are being prosecuted in Poland, and these issues have always been strictly separated from state relations with Russia. Poland, according to Beck, is doing everything to cooperate with us against the Comintern in the field of police measures, but if she enters into a political agreement on this issue with Germany, she will not be able to maintain the peaceful good neighborly relations with Russia that Poland needs for her peace of mind. Nevertheless, Beck promised that Polish policy in the future would perhaps be able to develop in this regard in the direction we desired.

                    I asked Beck if they had abandoned the ambitious aspirations of Marshal Pilsudski in this direction, that is, from claims to Ukraine. To this he, smiling, answered me that they were already in Kiev itself and that these aspirations were undoubtedly still alive today.
                  2. Taratut
                    Taratut 30 August 2012 11: 09
                    0
                    Well? So what at the moment? Poland wants good neighborly relations with the USSR, even does not want to join the Anti-Comintern Pact.
                    After the conversation, Hitler exclaimed "Oh, if only Marshal Piłsudski were alive!"
                    That is, using Poland to attack the USSR does not work.
  • Taratut
    Taratut 28 August 2012 15: 14
    -1
    And who loves us and why love us? We ourselves do not love ourselves.
    1. Zynaps
      Zynaps 29 August 2012 18: 57
      0
      also an expert on love within and between ethnic groups.

      you definitely have nothing to love. stupid forum trollo.
  • tan0472
    tan0472 28 August 2012 13: 58
    +4
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    You villain Mr. Tirpitz!

    Personally, I perceived the words of Tirpitz as referring to the Polish government abroad (England)
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 14: 15
      +1
      I don’t understand, it was about the Poles. In addition, the approving wink of the SS and punishers from Vlasov and the UPA infuriated me. "It won't work with the Germans." It remains only to applaud the murderers of 200 thousand Poles. negative
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 28 August 2012 15: 41
        +2
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        I did not understand, it was about the Poles.

        Dear Aron, I understood as I wrote above. Everyone thinks in their own "state of mind". (For example, the word sausage in a hungry person and a single woman, I think, evokes different associative emotions). hi
      2. Strategy
        Strategy 28 August 2012 21: 02
        0
        Is it about the Poles killed during the uprising? Then they are not killers: if the Poles began military operations against the Germans, then how could the Germans respond to the ARMED attack? PS I'm not on the German side at all, but let's take a sober look at the situation.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 28 August 2012 14: 32
      -1
      Quote: tan0472
      Personally, I perceived the words of Tirpitz as referring to the Polish government abroad (England)

      And where then the Jews !! ???
      They were tortured a little then ???
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 28 August 2012 15: 47
        +3
        Quote: Yarbay
        And where then the Jews !! ???
        They were tortured a little then ???

        Tirpitz's words "Poles are still Jews" for me means that the Poles wanted to get the maximum benefit with the minimum cost. Neither I nor Tirpitz said anything about the tortured Jews. (eternal memory to them).
        And if the Jews are outraged by the opinion of them as "cunning" people, then I cannot do anything about it. It may not be the most flattering epithet, but not the worst either. (In the end, no one would think to say: You are stupid - like a Jew) IMHO.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 28 August 2012 15: 50
          0
          Quote: tan0472
          Tirpitz's words "Poles are still Jews" for me means that the Poles wanted to get the maximum benefit with the minimum cost.

          I wrote above where to begin Nazism !!
          1. tan0472
            tan0472 28 August 2012 16: 12
            +1
            Quote: Yarbay
            I wrote above where to begin Nazism !!

            I have Soviet international education. But when I see a throat being cut by Russian prisoners, I want, for revenge, to sign up to hell, even to skinheads. Sign up, take revenge, check out. Wait for Allah to punish them ...
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 28 August 2012 16: 15
              0
              Quote: tan0472
              I have Soviet international education. But when I see a throat being cut by Russian prisoners, I want, for revenge, to sign up to hell, even to skinheads. Sign up, take revenge, check out. Wait for Allah to punish them ...

              Why did you write this to me ??
              Who holds your hands ??
              At the age of 20 I saw the same shots, the murders of women and children went to war, leaving school!
              And for the most part, my whole life changed after that!
              1. tan0472
                tan0472 28 August 2012 16: 26
                0
                Quote: Yarbay
                Why did you write this to me ??

                To the fact that you accuse me of Nazism "I wrote above where to start NAZISM !!" And also to the fact that if you try, then in any person you can wake up a nationalist. You are not an angel either. Or do you think that by uploading a video to the conflict between a Chechen and an Azeri, you strengthen internationalism? The Chechen does not behave in the best way, for which he is punished. But why would you post it here?
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 28 August 2012 17: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: tan0472
                  . Or do you think that by posting a video to the conflict between a Chechen and an Azerbaijani you are reinforcing internationalism? The Chechen does not behave in the best way, for which he is punished. But why should you post it here?

                  You are mistaken or knowingly lying!
                  I don’t know how to upload videos and have never laid them out here!
                  and I have no idea about the video you are talking about!
                  1. tan0472
                    tan0472 28 August 2012 17: 20
                    0
                    I apologize. Apparently I confused you with another Azerbaijani. He has the same high rank.
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 28 August 2012 17: 34
                    0
                    Never mind!
                    The main thing is that you do not persist))
                    By the way, my * high rank * is ready to pass on to anyone and I dream when they * will demolish me *!
                    And then in our army there is no such rank !!
          2. tan0472
            tan0472 28 August 2012 17: 17
            0
            While waiting for your answer, I saw your answer:
            Quote: Vadivak
            Isn't it easier to learn from Switzerland?
            In Russia, I think it won’t work!
            Agree not so responsible and law-abiding people !!

            What do you think the peoples of Russia are irresponsible and illegitimate? And then la la la. As I begin to accuse you of all sins. smile This is what our dialogue began with.
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 28 August 2012 17: 36
              +1
              Quote: tan0472
              What do you think the peoples of Russia are irresponsible and illegitimate? And then la la la. As I begin to accuse you of all sins. This is what our dialogue began with.

              Dear, did I write about one people ??
              Yes, I believe that we all, and even in the CIS countries, are less responsible and law enforcement for the most part !!
              Is not it??
              This is not what started our dialogue, dear!
              1. tan0472
                tan0472 28 August 2012 18: 15
                +1
                Found a video: Ataturk (2) August 16, 2012 13:45

                Our dialogue has begun: Quote: tan0472
                Personally, I perceived the words of Tirpitz as referring to the Polish government abroad (England)

                Your Answer: And where then the Jews !! ???
                They were tortured a little then ???


                This is me to the fact that everyone interprets the words to the extent of their attitude. It is not always that what you want to say is understood by others as you would like. (What you had in mind).
                For this, dear Alibek, let me leave.
  • brr77
    brr77 28 August 2012 16: 28
    +3
    tan0472,
    Personally, I perceived the words of Tirpitz as referring to the Polish government abroad (England)


    I, too, understood the comment of Tirpitz and I completely agree with him. Because this very government did not perceive the danger on the part of Hitler in time, and when Germany attacked Poland, it shamefully bombarded its people.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 20: 23
      +1
      if "Tirpitz" wrote about the Polish government, I would not even react. I am also extremely unsympathetic to this government, but for Jewish reasons, but I meant the Polish people.
  • pinachet
    pinachet 28 August 2012 19: 10
    +2
    do you think tens of thousands of Russians should have died who would have begun an unprepared attack.
    it may not be pleasant for you to listen, but the Poles began their uprising with such a calculation (at the direction of the government from London) that the Soviet troops did not have time for their victory, but they miscalculated ..
    sorry for people, they became hostages of politicians.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 20: 45
    +1
    well, it’s necessary to hate the Poles so much. fool
  • Mr.Advokat
    Mr.Advokat 29 August 2012 04: 40
    -3
    The article is controversial. Here are the author’s two allegations: 1. the Polish government in exile was hostile to the USSR, believing that Poland had two enemies - Germany and Russia; 2. Sikorsky did not recognize the new borders of the USSR, although they were recognized in the 43rd by all allies in Tehran.
    Firstly, the Poles had every reason to be hostile to the USSR - in the 39th we nevertheless came to them. One can argue for a long time on the topic that if they had not come, they would have been worse off - but this does not cancel the thesis itself that we nevertheless came to them. Therefore, the author here turned up too much about the eternal enemies. Secondly, describing the attitude of the government in exile to the borders of the USSR, for some reason, does the car refer to the decision of the 43rd year? This decision was made later than the Polish government formed its attitude to the borders of the USSR, and then - what does the recognition of these borders by other states? We still do not recognize Kosovo, just as other countries do not recognize South Ossetia, so this is not an argument. After reading these two very controversial assessments of the author, my attitude to the article became critical and I consider it necessary to verify all the arguments of this article.
  • Sergl
    Sergl 28 August 2012 10: 33
    +7
    The Poles were different. The Polish Army and AK are not the same thing
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 28 August 2012 14: 29
    +1
    Dear Tirpitz!
    I know you as a smart and worthy person, therefore I am unpleasantly surprised by your comment and categorically disagree with him!
    I consider both among Poles and among Jews more worthy people than villains !!
    1. Mr.Advokat
      Mr.Advokat 29 August 2012 06: 46
      +1
      I agree with you! It can be said about any nation
  • ICT
    ICT 28 August 2012 15: 40
    +2
    Quote: Tirpitz
    The Poles are still Jews. They wanted to eat fish and sit down. With the Germans this is not a ride.

    Well, if you talk about the government in England, then I agree, but you can’t talk about those people with weapons on the streets of the city,

    for the sake of laughter: where one HOPE passed, two Jews have nothing to do (proverb)

    The title of the article should have been a different type of "Warsaw uprising, view from the inside", but about whether we could help or not, the answer is one HISTORY DOESN'T LIKE SUBJECTIVE INCLUSION,
    we could not help; there were a number of objective reasons; well, without politics, it probably also could not have done.
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 28 August 2012 16: 09
      0
      Quote: TIT
      for the sake of laughter: where one HOPE passed, two Jews have nothing to do (proverb)

      It’s not right, when ho.kh.l was born, Zh.I.d cried for three days. wink
      I don’t want to offend any nation, just the saying goes like that in the original. To whom the rumor hurts, exchange for a Ukrainian and a Jew.
      1. Alex
        Alex 28 January 2014 00: 03
        +1
        Quote: revnagan
        I don't want to offend any nation
        But you did it brilliantly. I am Ukrainian, by the way ...
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 28 August 2012 15: 53
    -1
    The last photo, in the background, a guy in a helmet is modest such, somewhere I already saw him. We in the Kremlin have one similar Vova, his name is Putin's surname. laughing I didn’t think, I didn’t think where I would see him.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 29 August 2012 22: 40
    +2
    By the way, why do you have + 21, but I only have 20? request Someone did not negate me. what
  • Zhizneslav
    Zhizneslav 28 August 2012 10: 24
    11
    Poland went to us dearly, only the Poles didn’t like to remember that. They would have more about Katyn.
    1. brr77
      brr77 28 August 2012 16: 32
      +2
      Zhizneslav,
      Poland went to us dearly, only the Poles didn’t like to remember that. They would have more about Katyn.


      And because they have power now, exactly the same politicians as then, almost from the same dynasty.
  • itr
    itr 28 August 2012 10: 29
    +5
    And why the USSR should have helped them. And judging by the photos, half of the Germans who rebelled at the beginning were hunchbacked and when the situation changed, they did not favor the latter and became revolutionaries and fighters for independence laughing
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 10: 49
      +1
      they simply, like all partisans, used captured weapons.
      1. Cesar_Xnumx
        Cesar_Xnumx 28 August 2012 13: 00
        0
        Why are you so confident about this? In my opinion, they simply sensed what it smells like when the Red Army was already close, and decided to move to the other side.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 13: 36
          +1
          What do you mean? Do you know the Polish SS units? I don’t?
          1. Straus_zloy
            Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 14: 07
            +1
            Well this is fixable:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Wehrmacht_%28World_War_II%29
    2. tan0472
      tan0472 28 August 2012 14: 04
      +2
      Quote: itr
      And judging by the photos, half of the rebels in the beginning were hunchbacked at the Germans

      It also seemed strange to me that "according to the lists, there were about 30 thousand soldiers in the Warsaw district of the AK." They did not come out of the forest. It can be seen how the Czechs strengthened the power of the Reich throughout the war, and in the end they decided to rebel. But this does not detract from their sacrifice.
      PS Excellent photos. The photo report was probably supposed to be called: "AK Liberates Warsaw"
  • klimpopov
    klimpopov 28 August 2012 10: 30
    +6
    Satier plus, separate as always for Voto.
    For Psheks, Russians are always bad, and they didn’t help in the uprising and didn’t accept Catholicism, and they drove the people into prison - in a word, the state is a buffer, plainly either way ...
  • Kars
    Kars 28 August 2012 10: 50
    +2
    Why? The British and the Polish government, under their control, prevented this flailing without the consent of the USSR. Let them drop the assault forces than break the Germans’s defenses with the blood of our soldiers. Without preparation and with a stretched rear.
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 28 August 2012 11: 35
      +8
      The double or even triple standards of the British in relation to their ally, the USSR, worked here. Exhausted by the offensive, the Red Army will immediately get involved in the most difficult street battles and suffer heavy losses? Well! ? Excellent! You can shout to the whole of Poland and the whole world! How the Soviets sacrificed the Polish population and the rebels for political reasons (what will be the attitude of the Polish population towards the Red Army later, after entering Warsaw, it is understandable). The rebels will succeed in a gamble, and they will seize Warsaw, putting their government in their seats before the Red Army entered? Great! "Angry Uncle Joe" will be much more accommodating in the plans of the post-war redistribution of Europe.
      "If we see that the Germans are winning, we should help the Russians; if we see that the Russians are winning, we should help the Germans, so let them kill each other as long as possible ..."
      Remind who said?
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 28 August 2012 14: 06
        +1
        Bravo revnagan. +++++++++++
      2. Straus_zloy
        Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 14: 09
        0
        "If we see that the Germans are winning, we should help the Russians; if we see that the Russians are winning, we should help the Germans, so let them kill each other as long as possible ..."
        Remind who said?


        Truman said, not the English

        Churchill said this after the partition of the Czechoslovak Republic by Germany and Poland:

        “Churchill commented that the guarantee was extended to a Poland“ which with hyena appetite had only six months before joined in the pillage and destruction of the Czechoslovak State “."

        The aphorism is better known in the form of "Poland - the hyena of Europe."
        1. revnagan
          revnagan 28 August 2012 16: 12
          0
          Quote: Straus_zloy
          Truman said, not the English

          Rightly so, our western "ally". I did not write that it was said by an Englishman.
        2. Taratut
          Taratut 28 August 2012 17: 24
          -1
          Truman at that time just from ordinary senators broke out into the head of one of the committees of the Senate.

          Something like our Zhirinovsky.
          Blurted out and blurted out.
          Ours also did not hesitate in expressions. Let the Germans fight the British and we, under the guise of a deal, are handling our affairs.
          1. revnagan
            revnagan 29 August 2012 16: 47
            0
            Quote: Taratut
            Ours also did not hesitate in expressions. Let the Germans fight the British and we, under the guise of a deal, are handling our affairs.

            But it would be interesting to read such a "winged" expression from the lips of Soviet leaders. And a reference, if it doesn't bother you.
      3. brr77
        brr77 28 August 2012 16: 36
        0
        I join you, revnagan.
  • Leisure
    Leisure 28 August 2012 11: 27
    +4
    Hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers paid with their lives for the whim of the Pshek government in exile. If you decide to "self-medicate" then you do not need to look around, like help, "I called myself a load, settled down and stop."
  • wulf66
    wulf66 28 August 2012 11: 29
    +5
    Article plus clearly. And the essence of the Polish leadership appeared even before the war, Poland behaved like a hyena, grabbing pieces of territories from neighbors using a pre-war mess in Europe. The decision of the Soviet leadership was absolutely correct, the uprising began themselves, the Soviet troops were not ready for this, therefore they simply took care of the lives of our soldiers and officers. The battles for the liberation of Poland were already very difficult ... And the Poles are a shame for this page of history. For the sake of politics, substitute for the destruction of their own in the hope of chance ... it was necessary to think of such nonsense.
    1. Taratut
      Taratut 28 August 2012 15: 06
      -4
      Quote: wulf66
      And the essence of the Polish leadership appeared even before the war, Poland behaved like a hyena, grabbing pieces of territories from neighbors using a pre-war mess in Europe

      And then who is the USSR?

      Quote: wulf66
      The decision of the Soviet leadership was absolutely correct, the uprising began themselves, the troops of the USSR were not ready for this, therefore they simply took care of the lives of our soldiers and officers

      The lives of our soldiers did not interest anyone.
      Have you watched the movie Liberation?
      There is an interesting scene.
      Stalin learned that the Germans were ready to surrender Berlin without a fight to the Allies.
      But he does not like it at all. He orders to get ahead of the allies and urgently (unprepared) to storm Berlin.
      How many died? It seems 300 thousand only killed.
      And none of the Soviet audience exclaimed - why did we put the guys in? Yes, let the Germans surrender to the Allies, what's the difference.
      Big one. Political. Our goal was not only in the defeat of the Nazis. And everything in her, dear, world revolution.
      1. Straus_zloy
        Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 20: 21
        +2
        The difference is fundamental. If the Allies had taken Berlin, then already in 45 rotten conversations would have begun that the Anglo-Saxons had won the war, and the Soviet Union had nothing to do with it.
        1. Taratut
          Taratut 28 August 2012 20: 41
          -1
          Quote: Straus_zloy
          The difference is fundamental. If the Allies had taken Berlin, then already in 45 rotten conversations would have begun that the Anglo-Saxons had won the war, and the Soviet Union had nothing to do with it.

          That is, you are ready to pay 300 thousand lives of Soviet soldiers for the opportunity to proudly shout what exactly we took Berlin?
          Well, they talked about the value of a soldier's life ...
          1. Straus_zloy
            Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 20: 56
            0
            That is, you are ready to pay 300 thousand lives of Soviet soldiers for the opportunity to proudly shout what exactly we took Berlin?

            Not for the opportunity to shout proudly, but for the post-war world order in which the USSR was given a worthy place. Are you ready to pay 25 millions of lives to allow you to steal the Victory?
            1. Taratut
              Taratut 28 August 2012 20: 59
              0
              Quote: Straus_zloy
              Not for the opportunity to shout proudly, but for the post-war world order in which the USSR was given a worthy place

              You mean - for the opportunity to establish their own rules in Eastern Europe?
              What does it mean to steal the Victory?
              There are decisions of the Tehran Conference. Regardless of who took Berlin, they were not subject to revision.
              1. Strategy
                Strategy 28 August 2012 21: 20
                +1
                If the Anglo-Saxons took Berlin, then the Wehrmacht and SS divisions would have been preserved, which could well be used for a joint strike against the Red Army. And such plans have actually been developed, documented. The name of this plan, unfortunately, I do not remember now. And there still the American nuclear bomb really loomed. And then the decisions of the Tehran Conference and other allied agreements would go down the drain. It is very well said about the British: for any result of the uprising, they had their own interest. An old political intriguer with a constant English interest ...
                1. Straus_zloy
                  Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 22: 38
                  0
                  The plan was called "The Unthinkable"

                  http://www.coldwar.ru/bases/operation-unthinkable.php
                  1. Strategy
                    Strategy 29 August 2012 13: 41
                    0
                    Thanks for the link! I would like to hope that "rattling" (not by analogy with the name of the odious Soviet dissident) will read it.
                2. Taratut
                  Taratut 29 August 2012 09: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Strategia
                  If the Anglo-Saxons took Berlin, then the Wehrmacht and SS divisions would have been preserved, which could well be used for a joint strike against the Red Army. And such plans have actually been developed, documented. The name of this plan, unfortunately, I do not remember now.

                  And which SS divisions defended Berlin? Elite Leibstandart and Gitlnrugend and so fell to the Allies. And no one used them against the USSR.
                  Plan "Unthinkable" - a plan IN THE EVENT of a military clash with the USSR. It is so named because it was considered extremely unreal.
                  Attack plans for the Red Army in it.
                  1. Strategy
                    Strategy 29 August 2012 14: 57
                    0
                    1. “Many of the city's defenders fought to survive in the hope that they could hold back the Soviets long enough for Western armies to occupy as much of Germany as possible, and possibly Berlin. However, this hope was not destined to come true. Berlin was defended by General Karl's LVI Panzer Corps At the beginning of the Soviet offensive, the LVI Panzer Corps was not fully staffed and consisted of only two divisions: the newly formed Munheberg Division and the 20th SS Panzer Division ... "http://www.vn-parabellum.com/battles/berlin -knappe.html
                    2. These divisions were not used against the Red Army due to the rejection of the "Unthinkable" plan. Most likely, the Westerners were afraid of our alliance with Japan (then in the Asia-Pacific region they would not have been lucky). Perhaps, to exclude any treaty between the USSR and Japan, they threw two atomic bombs ...
                    3. And against whom then is the plan? !!!
                    1. Strategy
                      Strategy 29 August 2012 19: 31
                      0
                      More about SS divisions near Berlin: The 11th SS Panzer Grenadier Division Nordland (German 11.SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division Nordland) was formed in July 1943. The division fought on the Eastern Front, in May 1945 it was defeated in Berlin.
              2. Straus_zloy
                Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 22: 35
                0
                There are decisions of the Tehran Conference. Regardless of who took Berlin, they were not subject to revision.

                Do you seriously believe the Anglo-Saxons? Here is the 42 map of the year with a new world order:

                The post-war world is very similar to her?
      2. Zynaps
        Zynaps 29 August 2012 00: 46
        +8
        Quote: Taratut
        Have you watched the movie Liberation?
        There is an interesting scene.


        oh, expert ... movie war history. aircraft driving according to the Belomor pack. and nothing is written about geopolitics in "Murzilka"?

        Quote: Taratut
        But he does not like it at all. He orders to get ahead of the allies and urgently (unprepared) to storm Berlin.
        How many died? It seems 300 thousand only killed.


        rams on the note. for the entire Berlin operation, the irreparable losses of the Red Army and the First Army of the Polish Army amounted to 50 thousand and 18 thousand, respectively. it is necessary to decipher the term "non-renewable losses"? look completely at Krivosheev.

        and in the film, the rams were not informed that a flurry of defeated German troops with weapons and equipment had flocked to Berlin, and as many as two armies were concentrated south of Berlin, of which one was an armored one. and that the Germans intended to fight for their capital in earnest. that is why Zhukov, without the consent of the Headquarters, but after the approval of Stalin, decided to send troops to Berlin. it was easier to take it straight away than to sit on rolls and wait for the approaching German troops to occupy all the cracks, and then allies of the type would scratch their turnips, as if it would be more polite to occupy a metropolis with a bunch of troops inside.
        for sheep already: the surrender of the Berlin garrison automatically had a moral impact on the Nazi resistance centers remaining in the Soviet rear, like Breslau and the locked group in Courland. therefore, they were in a hurry, because the war was coming to an end, and stretching it was an extra sacrifice. but this idea doesn’t get confused by rams.

        think about it at your leisure, loser.

        Quote: Taratut
        Our goal was not only in the defeat of the Nazis. And everything in her, dear, world revolution.


        it seems that Teacher Rezun did not tell his fan club that the world revolution in the USSR was stopped when at the government level it was announced that socialism would be built in a single country. then followed by the purge of the stubborn adherents of the world fire, stuck in the skull of Trotsky's ice ax and the liquidation of the Comintern in 1943.

        son, you turn to specialists. Haloperidol - he is - they say, returns from parallel reality to ours.
        1. Taratut
          Taratut 29 August 2012 09: 12
          -2
          Quote: Zynaps
          oh, expert ... movie war history. aircraft driving according to the Belomor pack. and nothing is written about geopolitics in "Murzilka"?

          I just gave an example. But this is a real fact. Stalin really was in a hurry to take Berlin, and Churchill really wanted to take it first. But the Americans objected.

          Quote: Zynaps
          the world revolution in the USSR was stopped when at the government level it was announced that socialism would be built in one country

          But the construction of socialism in one country was considered unreliable, not final. The construction of the social camp was not completely canceled. And it was considered necessary.


          Quote: Zynaps
          for the entire Berlin operation, the non-renewable losses of units of the Red Army and the First Army of the Polish Army amounted to 50 thousand and 18 thousand, respectively

          The data is different. But even according to official figures, the loss of the Red Army is more than 300 thousand (though not only killed).
          Polish historians disputed our findings. According to them, the Poles died three times more than we said.
          1. revnagan
            revnagan 29 August 2012 16: 54
            0
            Quote: Taratut
            Polish historians disputed our findings. According to them, the Poles died three times more than we said.

            Well, of course, because the Poles even sing in their songs: "The army took Berlin for the Polish, and helped the Russians ..." You cannot praise yourself ...
          2. Zynaps
            Zynaps 29 August 2012 18: 01
            0
            Quote: Taratut
            But the construction of socialism in one country was considered unreliable, not final. The construction of the social camp was not completely canceled. And it was considered necessary.


            troloshenko, I did not ask your teenage opinion. you come on the facts. so I brought you a chain of actions of the leadership of the USSR. and you are sticking some dull, rezunoid bullshit. advise you to further study
            Professor Povarnin’s book on the art of dispute? because you will be driven by ssa rags almost everywhere.

            Quote: Taratut
            The data is different. But even according to official figures, the loss of the Red Army is more than 300 thousand (though not only killed).


            do not be shy - provide your "official" data. it will be curious to know in which trash you found them.

            Quote: Taratut
            Polish historians disputed our findings. According to them, the Poles died three times more than we said.


            and Polish historians, roll by name - who, where and when was noted.

            after all, sheep cannot understand that the number of losses can be checked indirectly according to the data of hospitals, according to the norms for issuing boiler and other allowances. these are very serious sources, but children are concerned about films and the magic of large numbers.

            I hinted to you about Krivosheev for a reason. it is his work "Russia and the USSR in the wars of the XNUMXth century. Losses of the Armed Forces" is considered the official work on losses in wars. adopted in the West with little or no objection. there is one demographer from Harvard who discussed little things with Krivosheev. teach materiel, shkolota!
      3. wulf66
        wulf66 12 September 2012 11: 58
        0
        Well, while I wasn’t explaining everything to you. If you do not understand, then it’s more expensive to spend time on stupid ones.
  • AlexMH
    AlexMH 28 August 2012 11: 42
    13
    It is possible that the Soviet troops could have broken through to help the rebels. To cease offensive operations in neighboring sectors of the front, urgently transfer all aviation and put pressure on the front command, demanding "at any cost" and "immediately." Another 50 thousand of our soldiers would have died, and we would have gained a foothold on the western bank in Warsaw, established contact with the rebels. So? After all, even with the liaison officers from us, the rebel command did not want to talk. The Poles from the AK thought that everything would happen on its own - the Germans would leave, the Russians would not come, and so they proudly form a government in their capital, demand Western Belarus and Ukraine for themselves, the USSR, out of nothing to do, agrees and humbly goes to fight for itself with the Germans for Poland, and the Poles in the rear are again chasing the communists from the AL. Stalin was a realist, he negotiated with those with whom he could negotiate, and did not care about those from whom he did not expect any sense. Therefore, with the uprising, something happened that should have happened. Now, if the London Poles moderated their ambition, made friends with the Polish communists from the Army of Ludova, agreed in advance with the USSR about the beginning of the uprising, they would help our people to cross the Vistula and would receive several posts in the Polish government as a reward, and not emigration. And so we did everything right :)
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 28 August 2012 13: 20
      +1
      Alex is right, they are all about Katyn, this is another question, but how many liberators perished at the hands of the Akovtsy, Lech Walesa would recall.
      1. Taratut
        Taratut 28 August 2012 15: 00
        -5
        We weren’t free for the Poles.
        If they had freed us from the Germans and left, we would have kissed our hands. And we ourselves sat down.
        And the peoples of Europe experienced all the delights of our repressions.
        And there were a lot of things.
        And robbed and raped.
        There is a letter from the leaders of the Hungarian Communist Party to the Soviet leadership.
        Hungarians are robbed, beaten, workers are forced to work for nothing. Established a miserable ration and well-fed Hungary was swollen from hunger.
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 29 August 2012 18: 52
          0
          OMFG! this is such a sufferer for the fate of the East European sheep, hunted by the evil and terrible Soviet wolf.

          you at least part of your phrases documented. and letters from workers come on. because Hungary did not starve, after the war it was not properly cleaned of the Nazi element, and Soviet troops on its territory were under the UN mandate, as on the territory of the former Nazi ally.

          Come on, drop everything and run to the specialists. otherwise irreversible damage to the mosquito is inevitable !!!
  • baskoy
    baskoy 28 August 2012 11: 53
    +3
    Interestingly, does anyone believe that the emigre government of Poland in London could completely ignore the "recommendations" of that very LONDON? Well, who benefits from a premature uprising? The Germans are deploying new forces near Warsaw (from where?). And the intensified "meat grinder" between the Germans and the Russians continues. Moreover, you can blame the Russians for not helping the rebellious Warsaw, but London strongly advised the Poles to interact with the Red Army, but they turned out to be so disobedient ...
    1. tan0472
      tan0472 28 August 2012 14: 17
      0
      Quote: baskoy
      The Germans are moving new forces near Warsaw (where?)

      Perhaps the British leaked the Germans information about the preparation of the uprising.
  • apro
    apro 28 August 2012 11: 56
    +4
    It is necessary to help comrades-in-arms and friends Poles are not and not these. Voisko Polish is 50% Soviet. And Stalin’s IVF you can’t be fooled twice with the Anders army and that they left when it was bad for us at Stalingrad and shooting in the back from Akovtsy. Politics is not a profitable thing, but if Hitler left Warsaw then what? a military clash with the emigrant government of Poland would have been secured. And the actions of the rebel leadership were criminal and ill-conceived, on the one hand they did not cooperate with the Soviets, on the other hand, they recklessly prepared for the uprising. This does not implore the stamina and courage of ordinary soldiers and residents of Warsaw.
  • Taratut
    Taratut 28 August 2012 13: 16
    -2
    The question is not whether she could, but whether Stalin wanted to help.
    The uprising was organized by the government in exile, which had to be removed from power by all means.
    So Stalin watched his favorite performance - the enemies kill each other. And why bother?
    Moreover, after the liberation of Poland, AK units disarmed, and their commanders were isolated or destroyed.
    I note that as a result, the Communists came to power throughout Eastern Europe. Even in Romania, where the Communist Party was a dwarf party, or in Hungary, where the Bolsheviks were still hated from the civilian side. These moods had to be broken and they were broken mercilessly.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 13: 38
      +1
      How did it end in the 90 years, do you remember? Such allies are more dangerous than direct enemies (IMHO)
      1. Taratut
        Taratut 28 August 2012 14: 56
        -3
        This is not a compliment to Stalin.
        He killed the people and the country who argue.
        I explain to you why Stalin did this.
        He was in no hurry to Prague. Her Vlasov liberated.
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 29 August 2012 01: 47
          0
          Quote: Taratut
          He was in no hurry to Prague. Her Vlasov liberated.


          how rich in your skull on ... this is the thing. Augean stables, naturally.

          read this: http://kenigtiger.livejournal.com/1217571.html - and try to remember the main idea. in a poignant pamphlet form, a real historical material "about the last feat of the Vlasovites" is presented.

          you make funny even Czech dumplings. for some reason, for some reason, in Prague, they still cherish the monument to Konev, and not Vlasov and Bunyachenko ...
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 28 August 2012 15: 02
      0
      Quote: Taratut
      Moreover, after the liberation of Poland, AK units disarmed, and their commanders were isolated or destroyed.

      May I have the details? It can be seen that a competent person writes ...
      1. Taratut
        Taratut 28 August 2012 16: 04
        0
        Quote: Flood
        May I have the details? It can be seen that a competent person writes


        Beshanov V. "1945, victorious".
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 29 August 2012 01: 34
          0
          links to the work of the mentally ill deliver incredibly.

          now it’s clear where you are so funny from.
    3. Zynaps
      Zynaps 29 August 2012 01: 42
      0
      show you the documents, according to which the attitude to AK is completely justified - enemies. so I’m throwing you how Akovtsy shot Soviet prisoners of war escaped from German captivity. and the very best allowed the Germans to fight without giving out weapons. would be idiots if they helped ...

      on the other hand, the rams were not told about the AK during the Bandera massacre in Volyn and Galicia in 1943, when it was already hot: they ran to the Soviet partisans to ask for help and protection for the Polish population. although they themselves in response to peaceful Ukrainians cut well ...
      1. Taratut
        Taratut 29 August 2012 09: 14
        0
        So I did not understand your position. We did NOT destroy AK leaders. Or did we do it and you justify it? And it’s somehow strange to combine.

        Quote: Zynaps
        links to the work of the mentally ill deliver incredibly

        Who recognized Beshanov as insane?
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 29 August 2012 18: 10
          0
          Quote: Taratut
          Who recognized Beshanov as insane?


          Beshanov is anyone, but not a historian. his books are even more dull than Rezun’s. if you don’t believe it, ask Isaev, Dyukov or VIF2NE. only you are there with your children's judgments do not stick - uh ... obSSut and freeze.

          Quote: Taratut
          So I did not understand your position. We did NOT destroy AK leaders. Or did we do it and you justify it? And it’s somehow strange to combine.


          do you have dyslexia? they fought seriously with AK, because this organization was hostile without reservations and posed a serious danger to the rear of the Army and local authorities. accordingly, any gangster underground was liquidated on Soviet territory. does that surprise you? grow up.
  • Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 28 August 2012 13: 57
    12
    So! "Could the Red Army provide assistance to the insurgent Warsaw?"
    And you can put the question differently, "Could and wanted the Poles to help the fighting Red Army?" Let's remember:

    In 1941, the Polish "army of Anders" was formed on the territory of the USSR - tens of thousands of soldiers! They tore off themselves - food, weapons. And what? They were not at all eager to fight!
    "... Ambassador S. Kot, who arrived in the USSR on September 4, 1941, brought instructions in which there was not a word about the possible participation of Polish units in hostilities, but contained a demand to do everything to protect them from" Soviet propaganda ", and formation of conduct in such a way that using any pretext, any difficulties, for example, to evacuate the army to areas controlled by England. "
    And this is against the backdrop of fighting not for life but for the death of the Soviet people !!!

    In a conversation between Stalin and Anders on March 18, 1942, Stalin said: “If the Poles do not want to fight here, then let them directly say: yes or no ... I know where the army is forming, so it will remain ... We can do without you. We can give everyone back. We can handle it ourselves. We will recapture Poland and then we will give it to you. But what will people say to that ... ”
    The Soviet leadership did not oppose the withdrawal of the Polish army from the territory of the USSR. On July 31, 1942, Anders, having received Stalin's plan for evacuating the Polish army from the USSR to Iran, expressed gratitude to the Soviet leader and expressed confidence that “the strategic center of gravity of the war is currently moving to the Near and Middle East” !!!

    How does it feel? AND? Ahead is Stalingrad (the Poles gurgled in the midst of the Battle of Stalingrad), Kursk Bulge, Bagration ... The most mess !!! And these faded to the resort! Apparently it seemed to them that from Africa to Poland is closer! That's really "psya krev"!
    1. DIMS
      DIMS 28 August 2012 14: 02
      0
      Not quite a resort, near Monte Cassino they were thrown into the thick of it. In addition, do not forget that there were a lot of Belarusians in the Anders corps. Well, about the Poles from the 1st Army of the Polish Army.

      By the way, do you know that the USSR kept a powerful enough group in Iran precisely during the Battle of Stalingrad?
      1. Ratibor12
        Ratibor12 28 August 2012 14: 54
        +3
        Quote: DIMS
        near Monte Cassino they were thrown into the thick of it

        African and Italian "hell" is much inferior to the Stalingrad frosts. "... At Monte Cassino, the Polish corps lost 924 people killed, 4199 wounded ..." This is about three weeks. Hmm-ah. Terrible losses !!!

        Quote: DIMS
        In addition, do not forget that there were a lot of Belarusians in the Anders corps

        Up to 30% according to some sources. Ha! We know ... remember ... we grieve ??? Well, except for those whom they deceived and confused. For those who made their choice consciously - oblivion.

        Quote: DIMS
        By the way, do you know that the USSR kept a powerful enough group in Iran precisely during the Battle of Stalingrad?

        Why the Soviet troops were in Iran, I am aware. Why were the Poles there ... That's really why? "... Normal heroes always go around!" They were normal, weren't they?
    2. Taratut
      Taratut 28 August 2012 14: 54
      0
      What is it and what is it about?
      Anders army bravely fought with the Germans. However, the Poles generally fought well (I do not mean their command, of course).
      And they did not leave from cowardice. It’s just not to fight shoulder to shoulder with the aggressor who has attacked their country.
      I'm not talking about the vile story of Katyn.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 28 August 2012 15: 30
        +2
        It would be better if you didn’t speak at all.
        And then the uprising in Warsaw and Katyn?
        Anders Army .... what was it armed with? List it?
        .....
        What is this passage? - "..However, the Poles generally fought well (I do not mean their command, of course)."
        But how did they fight - like anarchists, or what? How are the bandits?
        And, if it does not, a couple of examples .... good fighting ... bring?
        1. Taratut
          Taratut 28 August 2012 16: 19
          0
          Quote: Igarr
          And then the uprising in Warsaw and Katyn?

          I'm talking about Anders army.
          What do you think, Anders believed Stalin when he said that the captured officers had gone somewhere and he didn’t know where they were - maybe in Manchuria.

          Quote: Igarr
          And, if it does not, a couple of examples .... good fighting ... bring?

          Both the pilots fought beautifully (defended the sky of England) and the sailors — Churchill writes a lot about this.
          Poles fought in Italy. They fought in Normandy. They fought in 1940 on the side of France. All speak about them only with respect.
          And in 1939 the Polish soldier showed himself well. Remember at least the defense of the Brest Fortress or the defense of Westerplatte
          http://www.verim.org/interes/napadenie_germanii_na_polshu_v_1939_godu
          1. Igarr
            Igarr 28 August 2012 16: 36
            0
            Wait ... these are all words.
            Here is the destroyer Eagle, Polish. I know about him, I will not say anything bad.
            And about the infantry ..... Ratibor12 already said.
            Westerplatte is another conversation, not on this topic. Or will we all combine together - starting in 1612?
            Winged hussars, Pilsudski's swirls?
            .
            Here is a link to Anders' army, here the material was posted - .. http: //topwar.ru/9040-pochemu-ushla-armiya-andersa.html..-
            ..
            I do not believe .... with one hand we are forming an army of Poles hostile to the USSR, and with the other hand we are shooting them.
            There is no such thing.
            Though cut me - I will not believe. To Katyn.
            .
            Yes, and my questions - you have not answered. Gone from ... questions.
            1. Taratut
              Taratut 28 August 2012 17: 19
              -1
              Quote: Igarr
              Westerplatte is another conversation, not on this topic. Or will we all combine together - starting in 1612?
              Winged hussars, Pilsudski's swirls?

              Do not confuse anything? This is the beginning of World War II.
              http://www.polskifilm.ru/oborona-vesterplatte.html

              Quote: Igarr
              with one hand we are forming an army of Poles hostile to the USSR, and with the other hand we are shooting them

              At different times. Did not notice?

              Quote: Igarr
              Yes, and my questions - you have not answered. Gone from ... questions

              What is armed with?
              Who cares? Why such a question?
              What questions have I left?
            2. Dovmont
              Dovmont 28 August 2012 20: 45
              +3
              Yes, we did not shoot the Poles in Katyn! All this is Goebbels propaganda, which is used by the West to incite at first anti-Soviet and then anti-Russian sentiments not only in Poland, but throughout Europe.
      2. Dovmont
        Dovmont 28 August 2012 20: 35
        +2
        Are you sure that Katyn is the work of the NKVD? I have reason to believe that this is the work of the Nazis. And the fact that Gorbachev and subsequent mankurts declared Stalin the culprit of this crime is pure market conjuncture and lies. There are exhumation results signed by a representative commission, which also included the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Pimen. And I tend to trust the patriarch more than anyone else.
  • I think so
    I think so 28 August 2012 14: 07
    +5
    The events described in the article are the clearest example of the unjustified ambition and stupidity of the Poles on nothing. They have already been hit on the nose many times in history, and their leaders, as they were blinded by ambition, still remain. All this will end for this nation with complete extermination at the first opportunity, whether by the Germans or Russian roofing felts. And now - foreign missile defense ... Do they need it? This is the first target for a nuclear strike on the country in the very first seconds of the war ... And all the same, they crawl food ...
    1. Straus_zloy
      Straus_zloy 28 August 2012 14: 48
      +3
      “After the mass emigration of Poles to America, the average IQ in both countries decreased markedly!” - historically, in America, Poles in jokes occupy a place similar to the Chukchi allocated to Russia.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 28 August 2012 14: 23
    +3
    ** Komorowski did not want to make his way to a meeting of the Red Army through Vistula and on October 2, 1944, signed a surrender agreement with the commander of the German forces in Warsaw, SS von dem Bach-Zelewski. ** - I think they did not do this because of the events in Katyn, they probably thought that they will be shot !!
    Actually, Honor and Glory to everyone who fought against the Nazis !!
    1. I think so
      I think so 28 August 2012 14: 56
      +2
      Aren't you tired of the Soviet NKVD's fake with the execution of "Poles" in Katyn? Already all and sundry KNOW that it was not the Russians who were shooting, but the Germans and that there were not Poles, but Ukrainians ... I am surprised at your blinkeredness ... Google on this topic and do not listen to the official media, both Russian and Polish .. ...
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 28 August 2012 15: 02
        -1
        Quote: I think so
        are you really not tired of procrastinating a fake with the execution in Katyn of "Poles" by the Soviet NKV

        That you think Komarovsky should have said!
        I just assumed that Komarovsky was informed differently and most likely he did not have the Internet at hand!
      2. Taratut
        Taratut 28 August 2012 16: 22
        -2
        Quote: I think so
        Aren't you tired of the Soviet NKVD's fake with the execution of "Poles" in Katyn? All and sundry already KNOW that it was not the Russians who were shooting, but the Germans and that there were not Poles, but Ukrainians


        This is aplomb.
        The Russian leadership has already officially recognized it. And "all and sundry" have read Mukhin's book and are more aware than the President of the country.
        1. Roman Dmitriev
          Roman Dmitriev 28 August 2012 16: 46
          0
          Taratut, and the fact that even the European court has already denied Katyn, do you not know?
          1. I think so
            I think so 28 August 2012 17: 04
            +3
            Taratut - y.
            What you call "the Russian leadership" was not and is not, and its "recognition" cannot reflect any reality in principle. This leadership is subordinate to anyone, but not Russia, and, accordingly, expresses the opinion of anyone but Russia, and its "confessions" do not apply to Russia. This is the reality.
            1. Taratut
              Taratut 28 August 2012 18: 05
              0
              Quote: I think so
              What you call "the Russian leadership" was not and is not, and its "recognition" cannot reflect any reality in principle. This leadership is subordinate to anyone, but not Russia, and, accordingly, expresses the opinion of anyone but Russia, and its "confessions" have nothing to do with Russia. This is the reality

              I treat them worse than you. But at the moment they are leading Russia.
              Putin is not shy in expressions about Europe and the USA. Why should he recognize Katyn for no reason?
              1. I think so
                I think so 28 August 2012 19: 25
                0
                By the way, not Putin and Medvedev recognized Katyn. And I have already named the reasons above: "This leadership is subordinate to anyone, but not Russia ..."
                1. Taratut
                  Taratut 28 August 2012 20: 51
                  0
                  You spoke on this issue and Putin, and Medvedev.

                  The ECHR decision is not at all as described in your link.
                  Compensation was refused to the Poles. The question of who the executioner was - the NKVD or the Gestapo was not considered at all.
                  http://ria.ru/justice/20120416/627835407.html
                2. REPA1963
                  REPA1963 28 August 2012 22: 44
                  0
                  Why are you breaking us a tandem is not beautiful of you.
          2. Taratut
            Taratut 28 August 2012 17: 20
            0
            Quote: Roman Dmitriev
            Taratut, and the fact that even the European court has already denied Katyn, do you not know?

            Do not know. Can you link?
            1. I think so
              I think so 28 August 2012 19: 38
              0
              Well, at least:
              http://www.iarex.ru/interviews/26904.html
        2. Zynaps
          Zynaps 29 August 2012 01: 37
          0
          not recognized. and even gandon Mukhin is out of business. read before enlightenment here:

          http://katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=208

          scans of documents are attached.
          1. Taratut
            Taratut 29 August 2012 09: 21
            0
            Quote: Zynaps
            scans of documents are attached

            I was not too lazy, I looked at the scans. And what, the court ruled that the NKVD did not shoot Polish officers?
            Or recognized the documents of the Special Folder as fake?
            Why are you so happy? The fact that the Poles will not receive compensation because distant relatives?
            1. Zynaps
              Zynaps 29 August 2012 18: 17
              0
              apparently, you still haven’t learned to read and understand what you read? but learned to stupid.

              re-read several times, slowly and sadly (since it doesn’t please you) - then you will understand. may be. especially the main point of the Memorandum. or do you need to chew everything?
  • viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 28 August 2012 15: 10
    +3
    "The plan specifically excluded the seizure of the most important transport communications, including strategically important bridges across the Vistula." what a nightmare ... the plan can be called - "how to make as many people die as possible" (
  • Argonaut
    Argonaut 28 August 2012 16: 09
    +5
    The Poles got what they got.
  • yacht
    yacht 28 August 2012 17: 29
    +3
    The Poles have never been friends of Russia and probably never will be, So at best they should be treated as non-friends ..
  • Lech e-mine
    Lech e-mine 28 August 2012 17: 33
    +4
    With all due respect to the courage of the Polish fighters destroying the Nazis, I will not put anything to their leaders. The Polish leaders of this uprising pursued their selfish goals and putting in the name of their interests THOUSANDS OF LIFE OF OUR SOLDIERS AND OFFICERS is the height of recklessness. The life of our soldier is more expensive than Polish arrogance.
  • Vladimir 70
    Vladimir 70 28 August 2012 19: 17
    +4
    A very bad feature of the Poles (not all of course, but a large percentage) is to do stupidity and look for the guilty on the side, without admitting their mistakes! The Germans (for all their cruelty, especially in the occupied territories) are a more decent nation.
  • wax
    wax 28 August 2012 20: 26
    +3
    The Poles could only make claims to the Red Army in one case - the presence of coordination with them.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 28 August 2012 20: 36
      +2
      And even in this case, the claims would be objective if it was possible to prove non-fulfillment of obligations. Unfortunately, in a war, the enemy does not at all want to help in the implementation of our plans and obligations. For example, "Northern Convoys". The allies tried to fulfill their obligations, and the Germans hindered them as best they could.
      This of course is all off, but the Poles can only claim for 17 on August 1939 or for the post-war policy of the USSR. All that SA did in Poland in 44-45 is called Liberation.
  • Pancho
    Pancho 28 August 2012 20: 52
    +3
    And I rephrase a little bit the words of the Great Tsar Alexander ||| -all Poland is not worth the life of one Russian soldier.
  • Dovmont
    Dovmont 28 August 2012 21: 00
    +4
    My opinion is that 600 thousand lives of Soviet people given for the liberation of Poland should have atone for all the grievances inflicted by Russia on Poland over the past 1000 years. The arrogant Poles did not appreciate this. To list how much evil Poland has brought to Russia over the same period - fingers will get tired of banging on the clave. I believe that Poland did not deserve such a sacrifice from our people. She was just lucky to be on our way to Berlin.
  • Castor oil
    Castor oil 28 August 2012 21: 03
    +2
    Quote: Dovmont
    The arrogant Poles did not appreciate this.

    I agree further - they did not deserve it.
  • REPA1963
    REPA1963 28 August 2012 22: 42
    -1
    Stalin did not need Warsaw liberated by Polish patriots, he needed Warsaw liberated by Soviet soldiers. As they say in Odessa, these are two big differences. This is my personal opinion, it has nothing to do with the opinion of the US State Department.
    1. Ratibor12
      Ratibor12 29 August 2012 01: 50
      +2
      Quote: REPA1963
      Stalin did not need Warsaw liberated by Polish patriots, he needed Warsaw liberated by Soviet soldiers. As they say in Odessa, these are two big differences.

      Well, we will not be talking about Odessa, but about Warsaw. As for the Polish patriots, they fought as part of the Polish Army along with the Red Army. Some of the Poles, either out of meekness, vindictiveness, or ambition, wound up on a secondary front, and that’s where they belong. Now about the Polish patriots:

      "... On September 14, 1944, the troops of the 1st Belorussian Front, together with the 1st Army of the Polish Army, liberated the suburb of Warsaw - Prague. On September 15, all 15 divisions of the Polish Army were redeployed here.
      On September 16-20, they made an unsuccessful attempt to force the Vistula to help the Warsaw Uprising "

      "... During the winter, the 1st Polish Army remained aimed at Prague, and in January 1945 participated in the liberation of Warsaw."

      "... In 1945, the number of Polish formations reached 200 people (000st and 1nd Polish armies, 2st tank corps, 1st air corps and other units), accounting for about 1% of the total force Soviet Army Storming Berlin. "
      "... On March 1, 1945, the 1st Separate Warsaw Cavalry Brigade, in the last Polish cavalry attack in World War II, stormed German positions in the Schonfeld area."
      "... In the last days of the war, the 1st Infantry Division took part in street battles in Berlin, in particular, in the area of ​​the Reichstag and the Imperial Chancellery. The losses of the Polish Army during the Berlin operation amounted to 7200 killed and 3800 missing."

      "... the 2nd Polish Army advanced in a southern direction and reached the outskirts of the capital of Czechoslovakia, Prague.
      In total for 1943 - 1945. on the Eastern Front, the Polish Army lost 24 707 killed and 44 223 wounded. "

      By June 1945, the Polish Army numbered about 400 people. The Polish army in the east was the largest regular military force that fought along with the Soviet army, and in the future formed the basis of the Armed Forces of the Polish Republic.

      PS "Newsletter" of the Home Army dated August 12, 1944 gave the AK members the following explanation on the attitude towards the 1st Polish army: "this is not a Polish army, but detachments of mercenaries of Polish origin in Soviet service."
      What time! Mercenaries! They see the currency paid! For every scalp of a German soldier!
      1. Taratut
        Taratut 29 August 2012 09: 22
        0
        Quote: Ratibor12
        As for the Polish patriots, they fought as part of the Polish Army along with the Red Army. Some of the Poles, either out of meekness, vindictiveness, or ambition, wound up on a secondary front, and that’s where they belong.


        Not quite clear. That is, to fight against the Germans on the Eastern Front is noble and patriotic, but stupid on the Western?
        Strange position.
        1. Ratibor12
          Ratibor12 29 August 2012 10: 51
          +1
          Quote: Taratut
          Not quite clear. That is, to fight against the Germans on the Eastern Front is noble and patriotic, but stupid on the Western?
          Strange position.

          Oh no! No! Respected!!!! How could you think that !!!
          Of course the opposite is true!
          Noble and patriotic: dance around palm trees and sled from the pyramid of Cheops, while the Germans genocide your people. After all, it is necessary to preserve the gene pool of the best (after all, they were the best ???) representatives of the Polish nation. You need to save yourself for future great achievements under the wise guidance of England and the Vatican!

          Unnoble and stupid: to go into the meat grinder where the fate of the continent is being decided (at least), and those slaves who dared to disobey must be declared deserters (so the commander of the 1st Polish army, Berling, was sentenced to death in absentia). The height of indecency to prevent German jackals and Russian dogs from cutting each other. The best option is when "... the last German would have killed the last Russian and he would have fallen dead beside him."

          In general, it does not matter if the USSR loses and the SS man shakes hands with a samurai somewhere in the Urals! Well, Poland will not! Well, the Poles will end there! Nonsense! There we have a government in exile in London. So we will build ourselves and African Poland in exile! Figley !!! New politically correct name - Afro-Poles!
          1. Taratut
            Taratut 29 August 2012 13: 11
            -3
            No, of course, you need to fight shoulder to shoulder with those who
            1) committed aggression against your country and helped the Germans occupy it
            2) shot the country's military elite
            3) repressed the Poles within the USSR - after all, the Poles were subjected to the most terrible and crushing repressions.
            1. Ratibor12
              Ratibor12 29 August 2012 16: 35
              +1
              Quote: Taratut
              No, of course, you need to fight shoulder to shoulder with those who
              1) committed aggression against your country and helped the Germans occupy it
              2) shot the country's military elite
              3) repressed the Poles within the USSR - after all, the Poles were subjected to the most terrible and crushing repressions.


              Do not agitate us, dear. And these tales are outdated a long time ago. Only Poles believe in them.
              1) the USSR took our lands from the invading Poles, defended the population, and delayed fascist genocide in these areas for almost 2 years.
              2) Judged Polish war criminals. The Nazis fabricated Katyn for their own purposes.
              3) Yes! A terrible repression was to form the Polish Army from the Poles and send him to liberate his homeland.
              And in general, the gentlemen are painfully picky! Here is their patron Churchill was less scrupulous: "If Hitler invaded hell, I would at least put in a word for the devil in the House of Commons."
              In short, Stalin sent them correctly. He waved his hand into the distance to the departing train, smoked a pipe and quietly hummed in his mustache:

              I say goodbye to you annoying psheks,
              And finally I give you advice:
              Oh you roll pans finicky
              Say hi to Cheops!
              1. Taratut
                Taratut 30 August 2012 11: 13
                0
                Quote: Ratibor12
                In short, Stalin sent them correctly

                Where did you send it? Is it allegorical?
                1. Ratibor12
                  Ratibor12 30 August 2012 14: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Taratut
                  Where did you send it?


                  There: → "Nah ..."
            2. Zynaps
              Zynaps 29 August 2012 18: 23
              +1
              a little more dull pressure, thicker than black paint and delusional lies - orders from the Poles are just around the corner, like those of the mourner-falsifier Alyoshenka Pamyatnyh. this one has already earned. try and you, gobbelsky lackey.
  • Bosk
    Bosk 31 August 2012 00: 50
    0
    If only the Poles agreed on their uprising with the Red Army ...... flawlessly grandfathers lived to see victory, so maybe they are heroes but if my opinion is that they did everything right, then there would be a lot of people alive both from the Poles and from our side.
  • aviator46
    aviator46 9 September 2012 22: 15
    0
    The fact that Stalin did not want to support the Craiova Army is a fact.
    The prevalence of supporters of the London government among the Warsaw rebels, Stalin did not like.
    If, after the start of the battle at Tukums, Katukov's 1st Tank Army had been retargeted at Warsaw, and Rokossovsky's troops had been replenished with tanks and ammunition, they would have been able to immediately attack the Polish capital, and the Germans would not have been able to defend it. But the rebels still held out, and Stalin was not going to help them.
      Rokossovsky did not receive a direct "stop order". But after August 13, he realized that his armies would not be given enough strength and means to take Warsaw until the Germans had finished with the rebels.
    On August 16, Stalin wrote to Churchill: “Having familiarized myself with the Warsaw case, I became convinced that the Warsaw action was a reckless and terrible adventure that cost the population great victims. This would not have happened if the Soviet command had been informed before the start of the Warsaw action and if the Poles had kept in touch with the latter. Given the current situation, the Soviet command came to the conclusion that it must distance itself from the Warsaw adventure, since it cannot bear either direct or indirect responsibility for the Warsaw action. "
  • Reinhard
    Reinhard 18 January 2014 20: 28
    0
    That's for sure ! Rebellion for the sake of rebellion! Then in Prague about the same thing happened.
  • Reinhard
    Reinhard 18 January 2014 20: 29
    0
    That's for sure ! Rebellion for the sake of rebellion! Then in Prague about the same thing happened.
  • Reinhard
    Reinhard 18 January 2014 20: 30
    -1
    That's for sure ! Rebellion for the sake of rebellion! Then in Prague about the same thing happened.
  • Head Physician
    Head Physician 4 November 2017 23: 08
    15
    Could the Red Army help the rebellious Warsaw

    Theoretically, yes