Military Review

Arthur, Merlin and the fairies of the Breton cycle

104

The famous Polish science fiction writer Andrzej Sapkowski, assessing the influence of the legends of the Arturian (Breton) cycle on world literature, said:

"The archetype, the prototype of all works of fantasy is the legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table."

Let's now talk a little about this legendary king.

King of knights


Arthur, Merlin and the fairies of the Breton cycle
A painting of King Arthur in Winchester, Hampshire

For the first time the name of our hero appears in the ancient Welsh poem "Gododdin". According to the overwhelming majority of researchers, he was a Briton. Some historians believe that Arthur was of mixed Brito-Roman descent and was not a king, but one of the generals. Most likely, he led the cavalry units. The life of this hero is attributed to the end of the XNUMXth - beginning of the XNUMXth centuries. His opponents were the Germanic conquerors - the Angles and the Saxons, with whom he waged a stubborn war. The main site of the battles in which Arthur participated, most researchers consider the territory of modern Wales. However, there are supporters of the version according to which the prototype of the hero was the prefect Lucius Artorius Castus, who lived in the II century and enjoyed great authority in this Roman province. It is believed that over time, his image was mythologized. A fusion of images is also possible: the popularly popular leader of the Britons could be called "the second Artorius", and over time his real name was forgotten.

Researchers of medieval literature believe that at the archetypal level, Arthur of Celtic traditions is comparable to the legendary king of Northern Ireland Conchobar and to the Welsh god Bran. What is the meaning of his name?

According to one version, it is composed of two ancient Celtic words and means "Black Raven". In modern Welsh, the word for raven sounds like bran, which can serve as a confirmation of the connection between the images of Arthur and the god Bran.

However, another version is more popular. The point is that in historical Chronicles telling about the battle at Mount Badon (victorious battle for the Britons with the Angles), the name of the leader of the Britons is called Ursus. But ursus is a Latin word for bear. In the Celtic language, the bear is "artos". Galfried of Monmouth, who apparently knew both languages, could well have doubted the Latin name of the leader of the Britons and assumed that the authors who wrote in Latin literally translated the name of the hero from Gaelic. According to this version, Arthur is the British name given to the hero in honor of the totem animal.

In this article, in order to save the readers' time, I will not go into detail about the life and exploits of King Arthur of Celtic legends. They are well known to most of you, and there is little point in retelling them again. Literary sources are readily available, including in Russian. Those who wish will be able to get acquainted with them on their own. Let's talk about other heroes of the Arthurian cycle. And let's start with a story about the magician Merlin and two fairies - Morgan and Vivien (Lady of the Lake, Nimue, Ninev).

Merlin



This sculptural image of Merlin can be seen in the suburb of Chicago - Forest Home Cemetery at Forest Park

The wizard Merlin, mentor and advisor to King Arthur, was known in Wales as Emrys (the Latinized form of this name is Ambrose).


Aubrey Bbeardsley. Merlin takes baby Arthur


G. Dore. Merlin and young Arthur

It was with his name that the famous Stonehenge was associated here, the Welsh name of which is "The Work of Emrys".

Literally in February 2021, a site was found in Wales that coincided in diameter with the outer circle of Stonehenge. On it, stone pits were found, the shapes of which can be compared with the gray-blue columns of the English megalith. Moreover, the shape of one of the pits corresponds to a rather unusual cross-section of one of the stones of Stonehenge. There are cautious speculations that Stonehenge could have been built in Wales, and it was only a few hundred years later that its stones were transported to England as a trophy. It is curious that Galfried of Monmouth tells a similar story in The History of the Kings of Britain, and it is also associated with the name of Merlin. Only in it megalithic stones of a circle called "Dance of the Giants" were brought to England from Ireland by the order of this magician.

Many researchers believe that the Celtic bard Mirddin became the prototype for Merlin. Legends claimed that he lived many lives, preserving the memory of each of them. They believe that the name Mirddin was Latinized - Merlinus (this is the name of one of the falcon breeds).

Bard Taliesin calls Merlin by three names: Ann ap Lleian (Ann ap Lleian - Ann the son of a nun), Ambrose (Emmrys) and Merlin Ambrose (Merddin Emmrys).


Merlin dictating his prophecies. Miniature from the manuscript of the novel "Merlin" by Robert de Boron (1300)

Since Merlin was credited with power over animals and birds, some researchers identify him with the forest god Cernunnos (Cernunnos).


The horned celtic god Cernunnos

There are several versions of Merlin's origin. Some legends claim that he was born from a woman's relationship with the devil or an evil spirit, and at birth was covered with hair that came off after baptism (but magical abilities remained). There is a legend that the magician was the illegitimate son of a king who fell in love with a witch.

According to legend, after the death of Arthur, Merlin cursed his enemies - the Saxons. Some believed that it was because of this curse that the last Saka king Harold was defeated and killed at the Battle of Hastings (1066).

Merlin was ruined by his love. According to one version, he was imprisoned in a rock by the fairy Vivien, whom he vainly coveted. Another version claims that Merlin was immersed in eternal sleep by his other student, Morgana. We will now talk about these fairies.

Fata Morgana



Edward Burne-Jones. Morgan Le Fay. 1862

The famous student of Merlin, the fairy Morgana, is associated with the Irish goddess of war Morrigan or with the Breton river fairy Morgan. Legends of the Breton cycle call her the daughter of the Duke of Cornwall and half-sister of Arthur, at whose insistence she entered into a political marriage with his former enemy, Urien of Gorsky. The couple did not love each other, and therefore, taking their newborn son, Morgana went to the Breton forest of Broceliande, where she became a student of Merlin who fell in love with her.

Thanks to Morgana, a Valley of no return appeared in Broceliande, and only a man could find a way out of it, never, even in his thoughts, who had not betrayed his beloved. Many unfaithful knights were freed from her later by Sir Lancelot.


Lancelot fights two dragons guarding the entrance to the Valley of No Return, XNUMXth century

We'll talk more about Broceliande in the article "Stories with a Stone", but for now let's return to Morgan. She gave birth to three daughters from Merlin, to whom she gave the gift of healing. They also left offspring in which this gift was transmitted through the female line. Some noble English ladies, centuries later, were credited with the ability to make elixirs and balms, which are very effective in healing wounds. Sometimes the son of Morgana is called Mordred, but this is not true: this knight was born from the connection of Arthur and his sister Morgause, who was a pupil of Morgana.

Morgana was offended by Arthur for forcibly giving her in marriage. A powerful sister became the enemy of this king and tried to destroy him. Once she replaced the magic sword Excalibur with a copy, sent him poisoned clothes as a gift.


Fata Morgana presents Arthur with a false Excalibur, illustration for the novel "Merlin" (included in the cycle "Vulgate"), XIV century.

However, it was she who, having come to the field of the last battle of Arthur, took the mortally wounded king to the island of Avalon.

By the way, the English Queen Elizabeth Woodville and King Richard the Lionheart were considered descendants of Morgana's niece - the fairy Melusine. After the fall of Accra in 1191, Richard ordered the killing of 2700 prisoners for whom no ransom was paid. In response to the murmur that arose, he said to his fellow crusaders: they say, what did you expect from me, "aren't we (Plantagenets) children of the devil"?


Julius Hubner. Melusine

But that is another story. If you are interested in it, open the article “Good King Richard, Bad King John. Part 1".

"Virgin of the Lake"


Another student of Merlin was Lancelot's teacher - the fairy Vivien, who is sometimes called Nimue, Ninev, and also Lady of the Lake (Lady or Maiden of the Lake). W. Scott and A. Tennyson, G. Rossini, G. Donizetti and F. Schubert turned to her image.


"The Virgin of the Lake and Baby Lancelot", illustration to the poem by A. Tennyson "Lancelot and Elaine" (part of the cycle "Idylls of the King")


Vivienne finds Lancelot to heal him of the madness caused by Guenever's dream of infidelity (this dream was sent by Morgana). Illustration of the Vulgate, 1475

Few people know that the famous Schubert melody, on which the Ave Maria prayer is laid, was written as Ellens Gesang III - the 3rd song of Elaine, the heroine of Walter Scott's poem "The Lady of the Lake".


Eleanor Fortescue-Brickdale. Elaine and Lancelot, 1911

Let's say a few words about this girl. This is the daughter of King Pelléas, a descendant of the half-brother of Joseph of Arimathea. With the help of deception, she conceived from Lancelot a son - Galahad, who was destined to find the Grail, and then died of unrequited love for this knight. She bequeathed to lower her body in a funeral barge down the river to the castle of King Arthur.


Lancelot Speed. Elaine in the barge

Let's go back to the Lady of the Lake. Vivienne-Nineve was a local native - born in Broceliande, sometimes she is called the daughter of the knight Dionas Briosk and the niece of the Duke of Burgundy. Often the image of this fairy is divided into two: the positive Lady of the Lake, the giver of Excalibur, and the negative Vivienne, who imprisoned Merlin in love with her in the rock. Malorie claims that she did it because of the constant harassment and harassment of an old magician whom she did not love. In the XNUMXth century poem "The Prophecy of Ambrose Merlin of the Seven Kings", it is argued that Vivien was proud that Merlin could not deprive her of her virginity - unlike many other students (such an overt and cynical "harassment" flourished then in Broseliand). In "The Novel of Lancelot" (from the cycle "Vulgate") this is explained by the spell that she put on her womb.


Lady of the Lake, modern illustration


Eleanor Brickdale. "Vivienne and Merlin"


"Merlin's Tomb" in Broceliande Forest

Interestingly, in some legends, having got rid of Merlin, Ninue-Vivienne takes his place as an adviser to King Arthur and twice saves him from the assassination attempts of Morgana. She also rescued him from the captivity of the overly loving sorceress Annour. In general, a very skilled fairy, a worthy student of the lustful Merlin. Together with Morgana, Vivienne takes the mortally wounded Arthur to Avallon.

But back to Celtic legends and their impact on world literature.

The famous French novella Tristan and Isolde, which dates back to the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, is also a literary adaptation of Irish and Welsh legends. Most researchers consider the Irish story ("saga") "The Pursuit of Diarmaid and Graine" to be the primary source of this work.

The Great Hoax by James McPherson


And in 1760, reading Europe was shocked by the anonymously published in Edinburgh "Fragments of Old Poems Collected in the Highlands of Scotland and Translated from the Gaelic Language" (15 passages). The success was such that in the same year the collection was printed again. The translator was the Scottish writer James Macpherson, who then in 1761-1762. in London published a new book - "Fingal, an ancient epic poem in six books, along with several other poems of Ossian, son of Fingal."

Ossian (Oisin) is the hero of many Irish sagas who lived in the XNUMXrd century AD. e. The circumstances of his birth are described in the above-mentioned Irish story "The Pursuit of Diarmaid and Graine". Tradition claims that he lived to see Patrick, the future patron saint of the island, arrived in Ireland.

In new poems, Ossian talked about the exploits of his father - Finn (Fingal) McCumhill and his Fenian warriors (Fians).

And in 1763 MacPherson published the collection "Temora".


James McPherson

These publications aroused great interest, Celtic history and Celtic legends became fashionable, which was reflected in the work of many poets and writers of those years. Byron and Walter Scott became Ossian's fans. Goethe said through the mouth of Werther:

"Ossian drove Homer out of my heart."

Napoleon Bonaparte in all his campaigns took the Italian translation of "Ossian's poems" made by Cesarotti. Russian generals Kutaisov and Ermolov "read Fingal" on the eve of the Borodino battle.

In Russia, Ossian's poems were translated (from French) by Dmitriev, Kostrov, Zhukovsky and Karamzin. In imitation of Ossian, Baratynsky, Pushkin and Lermontov wrote poems.

Alas, in the 1914th and early XNUMXth centuries it was proved that the "Works of Ossian" and "Temora" are stylizations that belonged to the pen of MacPherson himself. Only a few fragments are recognized as borrowings from Gaelic folklore. But it was too late: there were already works inspired by this literary hoax, and some of them turned out to be very successful. In XNUMX the Russian poet O. Mandelstam dedicated the following lines of his poem to Macpherson and Ossian:

“I have not heard the stories of Ossian,
Have not tried old wine -
Why am I dreaming of a clearing
Scotland's blood moon?
And the roll call of the raven and the harp
It seems to me in an ominous silence
And blown up by the wind scarves
Druzhinnikov flash by the moon!
I got a blissful inheritance -
Alien singers wandering dreams;
Its kinship and boring neighborhood
We are deliberately free to despise.
And not one treasure, perhaps
Passing grandchildren, great-grandchildren will leave.
And again the skald will add another song
And how he will pronounce it. "

The next article will talk about the Grail and the search for this relic.
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  1. Catfish
    Catfish April 14 2021 05: 35
    +9
    Good morning friends and comrades!
    For me it is really good thanks to Valery, for which I thank him!
    Here the audience lived merrily at that time, the men between campaigns with a scuffle, had fun with local ladies in spite of kinship,
    and the ladies, too, were not at all lost and sought "their way by washing so by rolling." And I really respect Merlin's dad for him
    kind, I'm not afraid of this word, attitude towards my students.
    I absolutely do not know the history of all the cunning moves of that time, especially with magicians and fairies, and therefore I have a question for the people:
    If the women decided to destroy Arthur by slipping him a dummy instead of a weapon, and even poisoning his clothes, then why, after the battle, did these aunts take the mortally wounded Arthur to Avalon?
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 April 14 2021 09: 53
      +3
      "mortally wounded Arthur was taken to Avalon," Constantine, from a woman's point of view. Morgana is Arthur's sister, and at the last moment, family feelings got the better of her. And Vivienne did not hate Arthur ..
      I haven’t read about it, and therefore I’m just guessing
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 14 2021 10: 24
        +4
        Good morning, Vera. smile
        I don’t know what kindred feelings Morgana had for Arthur, I would have lifted such relatives for all the "good" on the first bitch.
        1. VLR
          April 14 2021 12: 56
          +7
          Well, Arthur forcibly married his sister Morgan. And hubby ran after every skirt he met along the way. As a result, Morgana became a man-hater: she created a "Valley of No Return" in Broceliande for the unfaithful knights. Merlin, from whom she gave birth to three daughters, apparently only endured: as she learned everything from him, according to one version, she sent her to sleep (eternal sleep). Lady Vivienne, however, claimed that it was she who imprisoned Merlin in a rock - so that he would not encroach on her virginity. Directly militant feminists, both smile
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 April 17 2021 09: 12
          +1
          Constantine, so Morgana is lucky that you were not in Arthur's place
          1. Catfish
            Catfish April 17 2021 17: 30
            +1
            "...- In life, everything is given a place,
            Evil coexists with good.
            If the bride leaves for another,
            It is not known who was lucky ... "(c)

            Who knows ... Perhaps the country that is now called England was unlucky. laughing
      2. Richard
        Richard April 15 2021 02: 02
        +3
        The fairies killed Merlin

        It’s my own fault. ”After all, I’m a wizard, I could draw a magic circle around me with chalk. smile
    2. Richard
      Richard April 14 2021 11: 20
      +4
      Konstantin, Good day hi
      The name of King Arthur's sword apparently comes from the Welsh Caledfwlch (Welsh Caledfwlch), which combines the elements caled ("battle") and bwlch ("break integrity", "tear")
      Galfrid of Monmouth Latinized the name - the sword in his XNUMXth century work "History of the Kings of Britain" is called Caliburn or Caliburnus (probably from the Latin chalybs - "steel"). In French medieval literature, the sword was called Escalibor, Excalibor and finally Excalibur.
      \ The first mentions of Caledwulch are related to the Celtic legends "Trophies of Annun" and "Keeluch and Olven" - a work included in the Mabinogion and dating back to about 1100.
    3. Van 16
      Van 16 April 14 2021 11: 37
      +4
      "Why, after the battle, did these aunts take the mortally wounded Arthur to Avalon?"

      - What are your thoughts?
      - Complicated story.
      - How true it is, Watson ..
      (C) smile
      1. Catfish
        Catfish April 14 2021 21: 41
        +2
        Hi Ivan. smile

        The smartest people. wink
  2. Nazar
    Nazar April 14 2021 05: 40
    +13
    And the British do not complex that their today's "nation" has so many progenitors - the Picts, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Welsh, Normans ... and the dog knows who else - this does not bother anyone. And we have only one assumption that at the origins of our people could be not only the Slavs, the Finno-Finns and the Turks, but also the Normans also causes a wild screeching, as if this is some kind of "dark spot" on the reputation of our ancestors hi
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 April 14 2021 08: 55
      +4
      Colleague Nazar, a little clarification: the attitude towards the Normans in general is tolerant, but some consider it not "patriotic" that Rurik was a Norman
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master April 14 2021 10: 55
        +8
        It's strange that Stalin was a Georgian they don't really care about. smile
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 April 14 2021 21: 20
          0
          What hamsters, what Fomenkovites, they are all with cockroaches in their heads
      2. Richard
        Richard April 14 2021 11: 24
        +7
        some consider it not "patriotic" that Rurik was a Norman

        I propose a compromise - let's assume that Rurik was Russian according to his passport laughing
    2. Proxima
      Proxima April 14 2021 12: 41
      +4
      Quote: Nazar
      And the British do not complex that their today's "nation" has so many progenitors - the Picts, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Welsh, Normans ... and the dog knows who else - this does not bother anyone. And we have only one assumption that at the origins of our people could be not only the Slavs, the Finno-Finns and the Turks, but also the Normans also causes a wild screeching, as if this is some kind of "dark spot" on the reputation of our ancestors hi

      And when the Norman Duke William the Conqueror deprived Britain of its "sovereignty" (the Battle of Hastings), no one was too complex and did not tore his shirt. There is only one answer, as the nation of England has not yet been formed. The same can be said about Doryurik Russia. Moreover, moreover, the Scandinavian influence on the Russian language is practically reduced to zero. But we are more complex than the French, whom Bismarck, and then Hitler, raped.
      1. VLR
        April 14 2021 13: 18
        +7
        In fact, the Normans for generations have treated the English aborigines as the last of their livestock. In Waltern Scott's novel "Ivanhoe" this is well shown: the Norman knights there are outrageous, to whom the law is not written. The father of the protagonist is a noble man, but not Norman, and therefore second class. He hates the Normans, curses his son and deprives him of his inheritance because he went to serve the Norman king - Richard the Lionheart.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 14 2021 18: 48
          +4
          like the last cattle
          The main thing here is to put the stress and the additional consonant correctly. laughing
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 April 14 2021 21: 25
          -3
          Valery, actually, Cedric was a Saka nationalist. In the end, almost expresses himself in Love to Richerd
          1. VLR
            April 15 2021 11: 58
            +2
            Ivanhoe is a compromise character. His father is an old Saka baron, one of the few who has retained his title and his possessions. His position is much lower than that of the new Norman feudal lords, who do not consider him equal and humiliate him at every opportunity. The father refuses even to speak the language of the conquerors, and the son is already fascinated by the French culture of the Normans, the ideals of chivalry and courtly love, the legislator of which was the mother of Richard the Lionheart - Alienora. He wants to be like the Normans, to become one of them. Ivanhoe is one of the first representatives of the old noble families who voluntarily went into the service of the Norman king and his father deprives him of his inheritance. But in the end, everything ends well, and Scott hints that the era of confrontation between the Normans and the Saxons is ending, the conquerors and the aborigines begin to unite into one nation.
        3. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 April 17 2021 19: 32
          0
          "curses and deceives the inheritance for the fact that he went to the Norman king" Valery, I respect you very much, but in fairness: "they say that he expelled his only son from the house just because he dared to raise his eyes in love at this beauty" (Ivanhoe chapter 2).
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master April 14 2021 13: 48
        +6
        Quote: Proxima
        the Scandinavian influence on the Russian language has been practically reduced to zero.

        Today, yes. There are much more Türkisms in the Russian language now.
        In general, active contacts between the Scandinavian and Russian elites ended, probably in the middle of the XNUMXth century, at the same time, apparently, the penetration of Scandinavians into the Russian language ended. But, for example, back in the XIV century. and later, many words with a Scandinavian root were actively used in everyday speech, and finally most of them became a thing of the past only by the end of the XNUMXth century. But then not only the Scandinavians became sharply outdated - the whole language changed.
        So they had a significant impact on the language, it's just that the language has changed a lot since then.
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 April 14 2021 21: 28
          -1
          I agree with you: all languages, except Latin, tend to change
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master April 14 2021 22: 32
            +2
            All living languages. Latin, Sanskrit, Esperanto do not change because they are not spoken.
    3. Operator
      Operator April 14 2021 19: 50
      +1
      The British, despite the many conquerors (Romans, Angles, Saxons, Danes and Normans), were 90% as blood relatives of the Scots, Welsh and Irish (in other words, the Celts). The reason is simple - in terms of numbers, all the conquerors were an order of magnitude smaller than the aboriginal population of the British Isles.

      The language and culture of the aborigines of England have changed - from Celtic to Scandinavian, yes.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Esoteric
        Esoteric April 15 2021 07: 41
        +2
        R1b for example, the same is extremely different. And there are a lot of subclades in it. And they are very different from each other. Here, for example, R1b - S21 (aka U106 or M405). Germanic subclade. And here is where their descendants are mostly:

        Map from institutes dealing with population genetics.
        And the Celtic subclade -R1b - L21, DF27. The above map shows where the descendants of the ancient Germans now live. Scotland is especially interesting to see. Do they consider themselves descendants of the Celts? Here is Ireland - yes, Wales - yes, but Scotland is not very good.
        Informative map. The British are mostly descendants of the Germans and Normans (Vikings). The Celtic population of Britain was destroyed during the conquest, almost completely, on the territory of the Anglo - Saxon kingdoms.
        How many Celtic words are in Old English, Modern English? There are none at all. And the reason is clear. Angles, Saxons, Jutes (Danes), Frisians - they were still nationalists, and did not mix with the Celtic population.
        An echo of this is the virtual absence of mixed marriages in the conquest of America. If the Spaniards, the French were actively cross-breeding, so much so that Latin America was formed, with a certain phenotype of appearance, then this did not happen in the USA.
        1. Operator
          Operator April 15 2021 10: 42
          0
          Your information is absolutely wrong - the dominant haplogroup of the Scandinavians (up to 60%) is the Illyrian I2, the second in importance (25%) is the Scandinavian subclade of the Aryan R1a. R1b of the local subclade in Scandinavians is 15%.

          But the inhabitants of Western Europe have up to 95% percent of the speakers of the non-Scandinavian Celtic subclade R1b. If you are too lazy to distinguish between the Celtic and Scandinavian subclades of R1b, then you can always use the distribution area of ​​the Scandinavian subclade R1a, which in the same Scotland reaches only 5%, and in general in the British Isles it is 1%.

          Using the proportion method, it is possible to calculate the population contribution of the Scandinavians to the population of the British Isles - 4%.

          To the Germans (unlike other Western Europeans) in the first millennium AD. assimilated Slavs were added - carriers of the non-Scandinavian subclade R1a, so the total share of R1b among Germans was reduced to 60%, and the total share of R1a was increased to 10%.

          PS You are up to Klesov as to the moon.
          1. Esoteric
            Esoteric April 20 2021 16: 59
            0
            I'm more interested in genetics in the opinion of George MacDonald Church. Here he is a geneticist. And Klesov is not up to him as to the moon, as to the Andromeda galaxy.
          2. Esoteric
            Esoteric April 20 2021 17: 08
            0
            Haplogroup - I2.

            In Scandinavia there is none at all, in England from 1 to 5%, in Russia, Germany from 5 to 10%. Balkan haplogroup.


            Did you mean I1?

            I don’t see some Scandinavians, and I don’t see where there is 60%.
            1. Operator
              Operator April 20 2021 17: 29
              0
              Google "haplogroup of Scandinavians" and see pictures with charts and tables of the joint distribution of I1 and R1a among Norwegians, Swedes, Danes and Icelanders.

              Your pictures from Wikipedia do not in any way reflect the ratio of carriers of haplogroups in each region and, most importantly, the subclades of haplogroups.
      3. Esoteric
        Esoteric April 15 2021 10: 18
        +2
        To the previous comment.
        https://ria.ru/20150318/1053267378.html
        This is not Klesov, an excellent biologist, yes, but not a geneticist. And the link is a study from geneticists. They are Anglo-Saxons, not Celts.
        They are more Germanic than the Germans themselves - https://www.pravda.ru/mysterious/1081192-migration_of_peoples/
  3. tlauicol
    tlauicol April 14 2021 05: 50
    +7
    They had this Santa Barbara. Sodom and Gomorrah without fear or reproach to boot wink I go to the library for Ossian
  4. Undecim
    Undecim April 14 2021 07: 40
    +5
    The archetype, the prototype of all fantasy works is the legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table

    The Polish science fiction writer was a little mistaken, for a thousand years. The prototype of all fantasy works is Greco-Roman mythology and literature. In creating the Ring of Omnipotence, Tolkien developed Plato's idea.
    1. VLR
      April 14 2021 07: 46
      +5
      But what about the notorious "ring of the Nibelungen"? Also a clear influence.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim April 14 2021 08: 05
        +4
        Well, let's put it this way - Wagner and Tolkien developed Plato's idea. Perhaps I am mistaken, but in German-Scandinavian mythology such an artifact as a magic ring is not mentioned. So Alberich's ring is already a Wagnerian idea.
      2. Richard
        Richard April 14 2021 10: 45
        +4
        Since Merlin was credited with power over animals and birds, some researchers identify him with the horned forest god Cernunnos (Cernunnos).

        This is intertwined with Caesar's Notes on the Gallic War, where Guy Julius mentions ritual horned bronze helmets of the Druids. One of them was found and exhibited in the British Museum - the so-called "Waterloo Bridge" helmet.

        But this is not the only depiction of a druid wearing a horned helmet.
        a photo. Plate C of a Celtic cauldron Gundestrup found in Denmark, depicting a magician in a horned helmet holding a wheel
    2. Obliterator
      Obliterator April 14 2021 13: 32
      +2
      Quote: Undecim
      The Polish science fiction writer was a little mistaken, for a thousand years. The prototype of all fantasy works is Greco-Roman mythology and literature. In creating the Ring of Omnipotence, Tolkien developed Plato's idea.

      You shouldn't forget about the Finnish Kalevala either. Tolkien, as a professor of philology, has reread more than one or two heroic epics, so it is clearly not necessary to reduce like Sapkowski to one thing.
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 14 2021 07: 42
    +13
    the fairies of Melusine.
    At first she was a fairy, and then she founded the Starbucks coffee corporation.
    laughing
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 14 2021 08: 26
      +4
      Here she is somewhat prettier. smile
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter April 14 2021 08: 39
        +3
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Here she is somewhat prettier

        Buddy! This is a test !!! good drinks
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 14 2021 08: 41
          +3
          Buy what you need, and let's go to the swamp, catch "fish". wink drinks
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter April 14 2021 08: 43
            +5
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Buy what you need, and let's go to the swamp, catch "fish".

            I am always for and very impressionable on this topic. yes
            1. depressant
              depressant April 14 2021 10: 33
              +4
              They say, unlike the Romans, the Celts did not have philosophy and science, therefore they did not take place as a state, they preferred to dissolve in the local population. But the resulting "solution", consisting of many peoples, initially had an ideology of unification under a strong and wise government. Pay attention to the social origins of the heroes of myths and legends. They are all either kings, or relatives of kings, or, at worst, ordinary knights. This speaks of the desire of the population, making up legends and myths, for a powerful statehood, which was realized over time. The heroes of myths could be licentious, make mistakes, be delusional, which makes their images alive and humanly understandable, answering the secret depravity that is present in one way or another in the overwhelming part of the population. But the heroes of legends, occupying a high social position, do not appear stupid anywhere, do not cause ridicule. This is not a tsar who is pecked in the crown by a rooster, not tsar Peas, and not lazy Ivan, who for some reason is always wildly lucky in everything, as opposed to unlucky active people who are often presented in Russian fairy tales in the most unattractive way.
              I think this state of affairs was due to the fact that the British Peninsula was partially or completely occupied by the Romans as representatives of a great state - they gave a clear example of how to live. We have been occupied by the Horde.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master April 14 2021 11: 09
                +4
                Quote: depressant
                This speaks of the desire of the population, making up legends and myths, for a powerful state,

                Or that over the long centuries the legends have undergone numerous changes and in the form that has come down to us (first systematized and recorded in the middle of the XNUMXth century), they appeared as a reflection of the ideas of people who lived many centuries after the birth of these very legends. smile
                It is more appropriate to compare the legends about Arthur with our epics, where the main characters are as active as the heroes of the Arthurian cycle, although even here I would question the correctness of the comparison.
                So, I think, Rome and the Horde have nothing to do with it, especially since the difference between the occupation of Britain by Rome and the Mongol invasion of Russia will be like that in a thousand years. smile
                1. Mike_E
                  Mike_E April 14 2021 14: 16
                  +2
                  I also want to note that the Norman conquest, quite obviously, was not a "state" one. And it, in my opinion, had a much greater impact on the future of Britain.
                2. depressant
                  depressant April 14 2021 14: 22
                  +1
                  Misha, the difference of a thousand years bothers me least of all. I have an absolutely utilitarian approach to history. It consists in the question: why is it so with them, and so with us? Why at one time the territorially insignificant British Isle became a powerful colonial empire and was freed from colonies only because it became costly to maintain them? And the former colonies are now still drawn to the former metropolis and revere the queen - why? Maybe because they see a pattern of success?
                  And our former colonies are not drawn to us, they prefer to milk and rob us in various cunning ways. Perhaps because in our legends the king is stupid? Do cartoons and full-length game films support the image of the tsar's stupidity and narrow-mindedness? And for some reason it seems to me that our people imprinted the truth in them, namely: on our power, so you can ride on us! And if there is a liberator, then only from the people.
                  Take the same heroes: Muromets is a peasant, Dobrynya is a small-scale prince, Popovich is the son of a priest, and Svyatogor, personifying state power, is eternally sleeping, or does not act as it should. The people realized that they can only rely on themselves. But the yoke of the Horde, in which the princes carried out the will of the top of the wild Horde and at the same time did not forget to fill the pockets of themselves, their loved ones, put an indelible mental stamp of obedience on the people. Not the acquisition of a powerful state as a result of the worthy activity of top managers, but just a faint hope of liberation from evil circumstances - this is the ultimate dream of our people. But with such a limit you will never free yourself from the yoke of dependence! For freedom without understanding what to do with it further leads only to a new yoke - it is understandable and more familiar, and, having been tagged, the nation finds it and puts it on with a sigh, which is what we observe.
                  Thus, the Island correctly built a number of its heroes, romanticizing them as much as possible. It follows that the iconostasis of the legendary heroes is not only a reflection of the mentality of the people, but also an expression of their fate.
                  Was this a reproach to us? No, not a reproach, I'm looking for the truth.
                  1. VLR
                    April 14 2021 14: 56
                    +5
                    Dobrynya, according to the official version, is not a prince, but a Ryazan boyar. But, it may be of completely unremarkable origin. Dobrynya himself says to the saved Zabava Putyatichna:
                    "You are a princely family, and I am a Christian." He calls himself a peasant! And at the first appearance in the bylina (about the Serpent Gorynych), Dobrynya does not even have a weapon - "he fights back with a hat of Greek land." And after the victory over the Serpent, Prince Vladimir did not even invite him to the feast (which is going on in his chambers at that time). And the epic ends with the fact that, having reported to the prince about the victory, Dobrynya goes home and goes to bed. I wrote about this in the article "Serpents and Monsters of Russian Epics". But already in other epics Dobrynya is the most educated, intelligent and decent of the heroes.
                  2. Undecim
                    Undecim April 14 2021 15: 46
                    -4
                    And our former colonies are not drawn to us, they prefer to milk and rob us in various cunning ways.
                    And who is robbing you? And if possible, at least three clever ways.
                  3. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master April 14 2021 16: 41
                    +2
                    Apparently, you, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, also have some symptoms of what I call a "historical inferiority complex." smile It seems to you that we are somehow worse than the rest.
                    Look at Britain on the political map of the world and at Russia. In your opinion, whose method of state building turned out to be more effective?
                    The tsar is stupid with us, you say? How long has it been?
                    Take the "Word to Igor's regiment" - the simplest and most accessible example - where is the stupidity of those in power? Not. All princes are listed and described with untrue respect. Take our epics (however, they have come down to us in an unchanged state only since the XNUMXth century, when they were first recorded), but all the same - a prince can be hot-tempered, tough on reprisals, selfish, even greedy and stupid (although, I think , these are already notes introduced by later eras, rather already in the New Time), but they are not funny or ridiculous.
                    It seems that in your reflections you are coming from the wrong end.
                    You state certain differences in the mentality of our people from the Europeans and explain these differences by the peculiarities of our historical development. Or maybe you should try the other way around? Not faceless "history" affects people, making them what they are, and people create their own history as best they can?
                    Distinctive features of a people are formed by the conditions of its habitation.
                    We have them very harsh - it's cold, the earth will not give birth. In order to feed, you need to settle widely, far from each other. Hence - the cohesion of individual communities, but also the absence of a stable connection between individual communities. Already the first difference from Europe, where people settled more densely (the productivity of the land allowed) and communicated in larger and more numerous associations.
                    Then the state appears, respectively, these communities, one after another, are subject to state power. If in Europe almost every inhabitant of the kingdom at least once saw the king or a member of his family to the center of this power, then in Russia there were hundreds or even thousands of miles before the prince, and many have never seen him for whole generations. , the prince, and if we take it more broadly, then in general the ruler is a somewhat legendary figure. More is said about his deeds than they see with their own eyes.
                    Power, on the basis of the Law, is exercised in the absence of the prince by specific persons. - boyars. Can a boyar be "good"? Unlikely. It is difficult to call a "good" person who takes away from you a part of what you have obtained with such difficulty. No matter how little he takes (and he tried to take just more), he is still "bad". But someone must also be "good", otherwise it remains only to collect belongings and go further into the forest, where there is no prince or boyar. I do not want to leave, I have taken root. therefore, we believe in a "good" prince, especially since periodically vague rumors that the prince punished someone, executed or something like that reach people. The struggle of the princes with the boyars for power is not an invention of historians. Hence the belief in a "good" tsar and "bad" boyars. Paternalism.
                    "It is high up to God, far from the king." Since the king is far away, it means the direct personification of the law - the boyar. The boyar is bad, which means that the law is also bad. Not righteous. And since the law is unrighteous, then besides the Law, there is also Truth, which is higher than the Law. Hence - disregard for the written law, if it contradicts the Truth, that is, morality, that is, the inner conviction of a person.
                    Hence the readiness of the Russian person to ignore the law if internally he does not agree with its orders, the readiness to solve his problems on his own, without waiting for help from the authorities, and the sacralization of the supreme power. All this against the background of the habit of hard work with minimal "exhaust", the ability to settle down with minimal comfort and be content with it in the most unfavorable conditions.
                    And as the cherry on top of the cake, so to speak, the final touch. A person is so arranged that most of all he loves and appreciates what he puts his efforts into, his work. Parents will always love their children more than their parents' children. It is unlikely that anyone put more effort into the arrangement of their land than our ancestors and ourselves did throughout their history. Therefore, the majority of Russians love their land and for them the concept of "homeland" means more than for many other peoples.
                    Here, if it’s short (although it didn’t work out shortly) smile ) what people for the most part have created and are creating the history of Russia. Could our history under such conditions be different from what it is? Should you be jealous of someone, or at least compare yourself with someone? Do you need to strive to be like someone? Everyone decides for himself.
                    And to your question - "why is it like this for them, and we have it like that" there is a simple, though non-obvious answer. Their climate is different.
                    hi
                    1. depressant
                      depressant April 14 2021 16: 52
                      +2
                      But then I have a question: what - our tsars did not know the climatic features and the size of the territory they were feeding? Was it weak to adapt the laws to the realities?
                      1. depressant
                        depressant April 14 2021 17: 11
                        +2
                        I want to add.
                        Relying on the cold climate and, as a result, the need to develop vast areas, you are not justifying the people, not their mentality, you are justifying the authorities. In my opinion, he undertook to be the king of such a people and on such a vast territory - so be it! And not "reign lying on your side" (c)
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master April 14 2021 17: 11
                        +2
                        I do not understand the question.
                        If we start from the formulation of Lenin, according to which "law is the will of the ruling class, erected into law," and I do not know a more precise and capacious formulation, then the question loses its meaning.
                        The essence of the state is suppression, forcing some to do what others need. Laws are one of the instruments of this coercion.
                        What does "tweak" mean?
                      3. depressant
                        depressant April 14 2021 17: 30
                        +2
                        You do not understand my questions because you and I have different approaches to history. History buffs do not ask why Morgana took the mortally wounded Arthur to the island of Avalon and why in a Russian fairy tale, when a young king jumped into a boiling cauldron and boiled in it, the people had fun. I ask these questions.
                      4. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master April 14 2021 19: 17
                        +3
                        Quote: depressant
                        You are justifying power.

                        I'm not making excuses for anyone. I am trying to explain how the special qualities of the Russian people were formed, which distinguish them from other peoples.
                        And if you are seriously thinking about why
                        Quote: depressant
                        Morgana took the mortally wounded Arthur to the island of Avalon and why in a Russian fairy tale, when a young tsar jumped into a boiling cauldron and cooked in it

                        then the very statement of the question is incorrect.
                        You are trying to compare the author's tales of the XNUMXth century. with the legends of time immemorial, albeit presented to us in the XNUMXth century, but also in the author's version.
                        Why not compare "The Little Humpbacked Horse" with a fairy tale about a naked king, for example, or at least fairy tales about Gulliver? They were born relatively recently.
                        And the ancient plots must be compared with the ancient ones. For example, Ivan Tsarevich and Vasilisa the Wise. Both are of royal blood. Ivan, as the hero of fairy tales, appears much later, this is evident from the scenery in which he acts.
                        Have you ever wondered when the fairy tale about Emelya could appear? Let me tell you - Emelya went to the stove. When did such ovens appear in Russia that could be imagined as a vehicle? When did they start to drown in white in peasant huts? Here, that's it.
                        Read Russian narratives of antiquity, at least somehow close in time to the Arthurian cycle - you will see exactly the same thing: the sacredness of power, respect for rulers, not a hint of satire or mockery.
                        Read the author's tales of Europe in the New Time - you will see exactly the opposite: stupid rulers, cunning and successful heroes from commoners such as the Brave Tailor. Everything is like ours. This is no difference if you try to approach the study at least somewhat systemically and objectively.
                        And even remembering Pushkin, you remembered Tsar Dodon, but forgot about the prince Elisha, Prince Guidon, Ruslan.
                        What do we have in the end?
                        The methods of state building used by the Russian people, as the map shows us, are much more effective than European in general and English in particular.
                        Fairy tales and epics among Europeans and Russians, if we consider them taking into account the time of their occurrence, do not fundamentally differ from each other.
                        The signs by which one people can be distinguished from another are due to the natural conditions of their habitat. The more the conditions differ, the stronger the differences in culture, language, customs, mentality, and the faster these differences arise among peoples descending from the same root.
                      5. depressant
                        depressant April 14 2021 20: 07
                        0
                        Misha, you advise me to read ...)))
                        All of this was once read. In the house there was a huge selection of fairy tales and legends of the peoples of the world. But it is not important.
                        Just notice, on their part, the acting king is being saved. An action designed to strengthen the idea of ​​sacredness and the urgent need for higher power. With ours - solid youth in the face of the princes and princesses. And it is not a fact that these lovely, brave princes, filled with all that exist, virtues, will not then turn into stupid adult kings who do not know their country and their people. According to Russian fairy tales, this was basically the case.
                        As for the map, it only speaks of the extensive expansion of our territory with the preservation of ineffective methods of its development, as opposed to the non-expandable, but intensively used territory with a consistent increase in its efficiency, which just as consistently changed for the better not only the appearance of the territory itself, but led to the rapid development of sciences, art, architecture, literature, philosophical thought and models of social management. Remember where Tsar Peter went to learn all this. Our extensiveness is the conservation of backwardness. This is also why the Island abandoned colonies. This is if we leave aside the cruelty against the population in both ways of development.
                        It just seems to me that from the very beginning it was crowded in Europe. Initially, our life was excessively spacious. Once upon a time, a very long time ago, no one particularly encroached on the cold territories. So we were Berendei. This played a cruel joke on us. This is how I assess the role of climate. It's one thing when the Roman civilizers conquered you, and quite another when the Horde conquers you. War, sadly, is a civilization exchange. The winner implants his own. And woe to the vanquished if he was conquered by the steppe.
        2. Richard
          Richard April 14 2021 11: 10
          +6
          They say, unlike the Romans, the Celts did not have philosophy and science.

          Quite a controversial statement, Lyudmila Yakovlevna
          Philosophy (from the Greek phileo - I love, soria - wisdom) - love of wisdom
          Druids can not be denied this. Now, with regard to science, in the then understanding of it, of course. Many historians believe that the Celts were the first in Europe to make iron. Even the very name of the country Ireland-Ireland is translated as the country of iron. And the word Celtic itself is in Old Irish 'ceilid'), or * kʲel is translated as "heat" (metal smelting ???)
          It is known that the Celts were the first to use a metal rim to increase the strength of the wheels of their chariots. The wheel is an attribute of Taranis, the Celtic Thunderer deity.
          And their knowledge in botany and astronomy
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter April 14 2021 12: 28
            +3
            Quote: Richard
            Even the very name of the country Ireland-Ireland is translated as the country of iron. And the word Celtic itself is in Old Irish 'ceilid'), or * kʲel is translated as "heat" (metal smelting ???)

            Greetings Buddy! hi drinks
            Where do you think the Irish language came from and isn't it Anglo-British? And where are the Normans in this sense?
            1. VLR
              April 14 2021 12: 49
              +5
              No, Irish belongs to the Celtic language group. The English at one time paid for the head of the teacher of the Irish language as much as for the head of a killed wolf. And they achieved their goal. According to 2004 data, only 339 Irish people use the Irish language in their day to day communication. And 541 - occasionally. Many do not know him at all.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter April 14 2021 12: 54
                +3
                Quote: VlR
                No, Irish belongs to the Celtic language group.

                I will not argue yet, but I would like to clarify where the Celtic language and writing grew from, including? wink
          2. depressant
            depressant April 14 2021 16: 56
            +2
            Dmitry, with the statement that the Celts did not have a philosophy, I myself do not agree. I wrote - "they say". But already among the mixed descendants, in addition to the possible presence of philosophy, there was something that was less expressed in others - the ideology of a strong state.
  • Undecim
    Undecim April 14 2021 08: 17
    +3
    For the first time the name of our hero appears in the ancient Welsh poem "Gododdin".
    The assertion is controversial, at least. When exactly written Y Gododdin is not established. The run-up in dates is 400 years, from the XNUMXth to the beginning of the XNUMXth century. In this regard, the historian Nennius looks much more preferable.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub April 14 2021 19: 36
      +1
      Vic Nick good evening. You correct inaccuracies as usual
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 April 14 2021 08: 48
    +4
    Good morning everyone. I am absolutely delighted: Valery has started a gorgeous cycle. And God give him the strength to go on and on this cycle
  • Van 16
    Van 16 April 14 2021 09: 19
    +4
    A wonderful continuation!
    Not quite in the subject, at one time he was extremely disappointed with the film "Tristan and Isolde", which was in our cinemas, or rather its sad end ("in general, everyone died"). In the legend that I had read before, the result was even quite positive. It sounded something like this: "Three trees grow in our forest, ivy, poddub and red yew, they do not lose foliage in winter, so Tristan will always be mine"
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 April 14 2021 09: 42
    +3
    Valery, you +++++++, from me and my colleagues.
    Now they have read it and are delighted.
    In general, we know about Merlin, Morgan or Arthur, but the primary sources.
    For example, even in the 3rd grade, I believed that Arthur was a real king
  • Richard
    Richard April 14 2021 09: 43
    +5
    However, there are supporters of the version according to which the prototype of the hero was the prefect Lucius Artorius Castus, who lived in the II century and enjoyed great authority in this Roman province.

    The suggestion that Lucius Artorius Castus is King Arthur was first suggested by Kemp Malone in 1924. He said that although Artorius was not a contemporary of the Saxon invasion in the XNUMXth century, it is possible that his memory was preserved in local tales and legends, and his role grew as he was retold.
  • Richard
    Richard April 14 2021 09: 54
    +7
    everything that is known about the real Artoria comes from inscriptions on fragments of a sarcophagus and a memorial tablet, both found in Podstrana on the Dalmatian coast (modern Croatia)
    a photo sarcophagus and memorial tablets Lucius Artorius Casta









    Despite the fact that the sources are not accurately dated, the estimated time of the manufacture of the sarcophagus (before 200), combined with the position of Artorius, who was a Dux mentioned in the inscription, suggests that he was the unnamed commander of the 185 expedition to Armorica (the ancient name of a part of Gaul , which includes the Breton Peninsula and the territory between the Seine and Loire rivers, extending inland to an unspecified limit and down to the Atlantic coast), mentioned by Herodian
    the text of the inscription on the fragment of the sarcophagus and the tablet
    Dis L. Artorius Castus. Centurioni legionis Manibus III Gallicae. item Centurioni legionis IV Ferratae. item 7 leg. II Adiutricis. item 7 leg V Macedonicae. item primo pilo eiusdem praeposito classis Misenatium praefecto legionis VI Victricis. duci leg cohortium alarum Britanici niarum adversus Armoricanos. Procuratori Cente nario provinciae Liburniae iure gladi. Vi vus ipse sibi et suis H. s. est
    1. Richard
      Richard April 14 2021 10: 06
      +8
      Roman "Dis L" dux of the legion (s) (Latin dux; plural duces) - in the Roman Republic, the Roman Empire and Byzantium, the title of a temporary military leader. Subsequently, the word passed into other European languages: English. duke meaning duke, Italian. doge doge and ital. duce duce. This was also the name of the military leaders of the Lombards.
      In his Notes on the Gallic War Note, Gaius Julius Caesar applies it only to the Celts, with the only exception when he mentioned a Roman without official status. In the Roman Empire, dux was not part of the system of formal titles until the XNUMXrd century. He was subordinate to two or more legions. Although consuls and emperors could have been dux, they were usually governors.
      Fragments of the grave tablets of Lucii Artorius Casta show that he was "Dux of the three British legions against armed men" (literal translation)
      Castus may have been responsible for the actions of the Roman troops guarding Hadrian's Wall, but his inscriptions do not give us exact information about where he may have served in Britain. Author Linda Malcor has suggested that he was in Bremetennacum with a contingent of Sarmatians (established sent to Britain in 175 AD) by Emperor Marcus Aurelius, but there is no evidence to support this hypothesis. Given his duties as Prefect of the Legionis, it is reasonable to assume that he spent some - if not all - of his time in Great Britain at the VI Victrix headquarters in York.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick April 14 2021 13: 45
        +3
        In 2001, a book was published by Cambridge University Doctor of Anthropology and ethnographer Howard Reid. Arthur the Dragon King: How a Barbarian Nomad Became Britain's Greatest Hero. He studied 75 primary sources and came to the conclusion that the legends about King Arthur, Queen Guinerva, the wizard Merlin, the Knights of the Round Table go back to the history of the Sarmatians who lived in the steppes of the Northern Black Sea region. Reed drew attention to the objects with images of dragons stored in the St. Petersburg Hermitage; these items were found in the graves of nomadic warriors in Siberia and date back to 500 BC. Dragons similar to Sarmatian ones are noted in an illustrated Irish manuscript written around 800. By the way, the British cavalry is still called dragoons today.

        Reed argues that the first bands of tall, fair-haired horsemen, protected by metal armor, under the dragon banner appeared in the Roman army in Britain in 175, when about 5500 Sarmatian mercenaries arrived on the island. It was they and their descendants who gave the basis for the legend of Arthur.
        see https://we-russian.ru/archives/77

        Well, and a completely scientific statement about the daughter of Yaroslav the Wise Elizabeth, that she could become Queen of England. Indeed, a month before the Battle of Hastings in October 1066, her husband, King Harald III the Severe of Norway, tried to take the crown of England in the battle with Harald II Hodwinson in September, but died during the battle.
  • Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 April 14 2021 10: 05
    +4
    Great! Thank you for the article. I read it with great interest and look forward to continuing! This is not about the great tartary opuses like some laughing
  • VLR
    April 14 2021 10: 20
    +5
    By the way, did you notice what dragons Lancelot fights at the entrance to the Valley of No Return? This is not Tolkien's Smaug - you immediately believe that such people can be chopped up. Medieval realism smile
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 14 2021 10: 32
      +7
      "- This is not a dragon, but a wyvern! - said Ciri." (FROM)
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter April 14 2021 10: 41
        +4
        Good morning! Wyverns (not dragons) are owned by Queen Daenerys.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter April 14 2021 10: 30
    +6
    This Merlin bewitched (right out of the throat) my wife and I on the train from Cardiff yes

    The local swan geese are extremely unfriendly. The first to climb wassat
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 14 2021 10: 54
    +5
    It is difficult to speak of Arthur as a historical person. Personally, it seems to me that this image is collective and did not have any basic prototype. Well, like our Koshchei the Immortal. smile
    But, speaking of Arthur as a literary hero, it would probably be worth mentioning such an interesting author as Sir Thomas Mallory. If my memory serves me, he was the first to study and systematize the "Arthurian theme", writing a series of novels about this hero, and most of the subsequent authors were based mainly on his works.
    Mallory died in 1471 in prison, where he had been in prison for about 20 years. Actually, in prison, he wrote his main work - "The Death of Arthur" in eight volumes. Apparently, there was enough free time, and there were sources at hand.
    By the way, before being in prison, Mallory led a cheerful life, was a confidant of Sir Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick, the very "kingmaker", even sat in parliament, but, using the patronage of this noble , as later), arranged a complete lawlessness (even for those turbulent times): robbed, raped, generally entertained as he wanted, for which he was repeatedly arrested. At first, he managed to either buy off or escape, but in the end, it seems, he finally got tired of his overlord Warwick and was sentenced to life. And even when Warwick had already become the de facto ruler in England, he did not want to release Mallory, apparently, the character was too problematic. As a result, Mallory died in prison exactly one month before the death of Warwick himself at the Battle of Barnet.
    So, King Arthur owes much of his popularity in the form in which we are seeing it to a criminal outlaw. smile
    1. Alex 1970
      Alex 1970 April 14 2021 11: 01
      +1
      The diversified type was wink
    2. Undecim
      Undecim April 14 2021 11: 11
      +3
      worth mentioning such an interesting author as Sir Thomas Mallory

      Yes, and mention all seven candidates for the "correct" Sir Thomas Malory.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master April 14 2021 12: 12
        +3
        Quote: Undecim
        all seven candidates

        Somehow, these doubts generally passed me by. request In addition, Malorie (he, it turns out, is spelled correctly with one "l"), about which I wrote, about the others have not heard.
        My "hero" was born in Warwickshire around 1415 among the gentry, served Warwick, spoke in parliament, and went to jail for felonies before the Wars of the Roses. Further, it is not very clear whether he left it or not during the reign of the Yorks, rather not. He died on March 14, 1471, I remember this well many years ago, because the Battle of Barnet, in which my beloved "kingmaker" died, took place on April 14, 1471.
        What other candidates are there for the author of Death of Arthur?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim April 14 2021 12: 41
          +3
          The one you describe, Thomas Malory of Revel in Warwickshire, is, shall we say, the main contender. According to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, he is "the only knight with the right name who lived at the right time."
          However, the glaring discrepancy between the lofty ideals set forth by the author in Le Morte d'Arthur and his real moral foundations and biography has long caused cognitive dissonance among researchers and a desire to look for a more worthy candidate. Moreover, the search began in the 15th century, when a certain antiquarian John Bale stated that Malory is a Welsh from Maelor - an area in northeast Wales along the border with England, a relative of Edward Rhys Maillor, a Welsh poet of the XNUMXth century.
          In general, for some reason it was antiquaries who were most noted in their search for an alternative.
          The second candidate was also proposed by the antiquary A. T. Martin in 1897. His nominee is Thomas Malory of Papworth St Agnes in Huntingdonshire.
          The third is Thomas Malory of Hutton Conyers in Yorkshire, proposed by British professor William Matthews.
          The rest must be sought. I am not giving any arguments, since the comment will be larger than the article.
          The August 1973 Review of English Studies has a good article "The Identity of Sir Thomas Malory, Knight-Prisoner".
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master April 14 2021 14: 11
            +2
            I have read "The Death of Arthur" for a long time, but I felt the "high ideals" of the heroes of the cycle did not correspond to their actions at all. Rather, the actions of the heroes, being deprived of "highly ideal motivation", to which they are attached purely speculatively, are completely disgusting and scummy - in full accordance with the spirit of the times. No matter how you drape treason, incest, betrayal or murder with high motives, they remain as they are.
            So I perceived the author's "high ideals" as an attempt to justify himself in front of the world (I first got acquainted with the author's biography, and then with his works, so his personality overwhelmed me in a certain way), they say the author's own actions were motivated by an extremely sublime. In some ways, he was even right, because he terrorized the lands of the Staffords, the enemies of the Neville, whom he served. I just served too hard. smile
            So I don’t think we should be puzzled by the search for new candidates for the role of the author, based only on the moral character of the latter. smile
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman April 14 2021 11: 17
    +3
    The French scientist, linguist and mythologist Georges Dumézil at one time noticed a striking similarity between Celtic legends and the Nart epic and even derived a very interesting theory on this.
    I cannot judge how scientific it is, but the death of King Arthur and Soslan's father - Batradza is written as a carbon copy.
    1. Richard
      Richard April 14 2021 11: 32
      +5
      And the heroes-heroes of the sledges themselves bear no small resemblance to the knights of the round table
      Researchers believe that the Nart epic began to be created in the VIII-VII centuries BC, and in the XIII-XIV centuries, disparate legends began to unite in cycles, grouping around a hero or event.
      Regarding the origin of the word "nart" It is associated with the Ossetian "næ art" (our fire), which leads to certain parallels with the word Celt - in Old Irish 'ceilid'), or * kʲel, which translates as "heat". In any case, both the Celts and the Narts are considered the first in their regions who began to smelt metal.
      a photo North Ossetia Uastyrdzhi monument near the village of Nart
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman April 15 2021 11: 12
        +1
        Uastyrdzhi if anyone does not know - the local name of St. George.
    2. BAI
      BAI April 14 2021 14: 09
      +1
      ... But ursus is a Latin word for bear.

      Linguists can look for Russian roots here as well.
      1. Richard
        Richard April 14 2021 17: 25
        +2
        Honestly, I did not understand your comments. You can get more details. Explain what you mean.
        I didn't seem to write that the Celts and Narts have Russian roots.
        The minus is not mine. I give you a plus, as your comments are quite interesting
    3. vladcub
      vladcub April 14 2021 19: 13
      +3
      Here's a confirmation that the world is small. Is it believed that there was a single proton people?
      The similarity of the Celtic legends and the Nantes ethnos, and the settler among the Cossacks and Indians. The Similarity of the Flood Myths
  • Richard
    Richard April 14 2021 12: 08
    +4
    "Merlin's Tomb" in Broceliande Forest

    it is a tourist park created in the 19th century. And according to legend, the wizard is buried in the British Marlborough in Wiltshire.
    Scientists dated in British Marlborough in Wiltshire - an artificially created mound in British Marlborough in Wiltshire, using radiocarbon dating of coal fragments extracted from the mound, it was found that the mound was created in 2,4 thousand years BC.
    a photo Merlin's Hill


  • The comment was deleted.
  • faterdom
    faterdom April 14 2021 12: 48
    +1
    said to his fellow crusaders: they say, what did you expect from me, "are we (the Plantagenets) not the children of the devil"?

    Still, the knights were honest people in their own way.
    But from Biden or Obama, can you expect such sincerity?
    They will kill more, purely out of good intentions, and besides, they are not ashamed to appoint a certain "peace prize" for themselves.
    Not knights - exactly. Ordinary rogues at the wheel of History.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master April 14 2021 14: 23
      +4
      Quote: faterdom
      Still, the knights were honest people in their own way.

      We just could afford it.
      To modern politicians to blurt out something like that in public is unnecessary problems, make excuses later, fix the rating. I am sure that in a close circle, modern rulers of destinies also do not hesitate.
      Yes, in general, even if Richard spoke these words, then not to the general public, roughly speaking, not in front of the formation of his army.
      Quote: faterdom
      Will kill more

      That's for sure. But only because there are many more people on the planet now.
      So these ghouls are absolutely the same, that now, that a thousand, that two thousand years ago, that in Britain, that in Russia, that in some Mesopotamia. They do not differ in any way for the most part.
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 14 2021 13: 11
    +4
    Valery, sheer gorgeous!
    1. Richard
      Richard April 14 2021 17: 42
      +2
      A wonderful cycle turns out as you promised.
      Thank you, Valery.
      1. VLR
        April 14 2021 19: 29
        +3
        Thank you. And let me thank you too for the wonderful comments.
  • iskanderzp
    iskanderzp April 14 2021 19: 31
    +2
    Valery has already quoted these authors once ("Song about cowards"). Here is another work of theirs about the places described in the new cycle ...

    "Ashes of Newcastle"
    Rats and Anna Shiryaeva


    Sing about you, an island torn apart by strife,
    About the Warriors of Heather, who were exacted from the strangers
    A bloody virus for the land of mossy dolmens,
    That the sacred groves embraced with a net of roots.
    And how the hatred in our hearts burned and died
    Ashes of Newcastle ... ashes of Newcastle!
    Ashes of Newcastle ...
    We walked like a sea wave that the rocks won't hold back,
    We walked, and everywhere by word of mouth our step was heard
    We walked, because we remembered the word that the Scots were given,
    It is not our fault that a traitor was found among them ...
    But in the Mountainous Land they did not forget how they hold weapons,
    And we only had to burn out the nest of the predatory flock.
    Come on, heathen, draw your bow tighter,
    If you do not have enough courage to go beyond the walls!
    The screams of women, and the wounded moan, and the curses of the warriors,
    That perished on the walls and at the gates stood like a wall.
    And the city burned, but the foreigners were able to with dignity
    To look into the eyes of the Morrigan that they shone through the flames.
    And a reward for lying in a pool of boiling oil
    There was only Newcastle's ashes ... Newcastle's ashes!
    Ashes of Newcastle ...
    And although the years have passed after the fiery rage of grief,
    The smoke cleared, the face of the Sun was still bright,
    Woforwick trembled, Winchester knew no rest,
    They dreamed of ruins and black swirling ash.
    And it means that he did not settle on the corpses of fighters in vain
    Ashes of Newcastle ... ashes of Newcastle!
    Ashes of Newcastle ... ashes of Newcastle!
  • Operator
    Operator April 14 2021 19: 52
    +1
    The author - the Angles and Saxons are not Germans, but Scandinavians.
    1. VLR
      April 14 2021 20: 32
      +3
      The Saxons are first mentioned by Ptolemy of Alexandria as a Germanic tribe that occupied the territory from the Elbe to the Rhine. The Angles in Ptolemy and Tacitus are a Germanic tribe that occupied the territory of the northeastern coast of Germany and the central part of the Jutland peninsula. The Scandinavian peoples did not consider the Saxons and Angles to be related. And they got along with them in the same Britain, when the Danes attacked the west of the island, and the Norwegians - the east, and tried to gain a foothold there, very hard.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 14 2021 21: 54
        +1
        Let's start with the English: Jutland is Scandinavia - as a country, of course, and not as a peninsula (we do not divide terminologically, for example, the Greeks into mainland and island).

        As for the Saxons - Ptolemy of Alexandria gives information at a certain point in time - when the Saxons had already migrated from the Jutland Peninsula to the territory between Labe and the Rhine.

        The tribes of the Danes and Norgs did not consider the tribes of the Angles and Saxons their fellow tribesmen - which is absolutely natural (see the title of these tribes). It is also natural that some invaders of the British Isles (Angles and Saxons) had a hard time getting along with other invaders (Danes and Norgs) - like, why should we share our bloodily captured?

        Why are there dissident Angles with Saxons and given with Norgs - Eastern and Western Goths (who were united Gothimi during their residence on the Scandinavian Peninsula) cut each other during migrations across Western Europe with baaaaalshy enthusiasm.

        Scandinavia (Scandinavian and Jutland peninsulas) at the end of the 1st millennium BC - at the beginning of the 1st millennium A.D. in fact, it was a conveyor belt for the formation of extremely hungry and therefore warlike tribes and their landing in Western Europe - from the Kimrs to the Goths. The tribes on the way to the south assimilated the Celts culturally and linguistically. Ethnic hybrid received the nickname "Germans" from the Romans.

        In the second half of the 1st millennium A.D. The German hybrid itself began to hinder the migration of the next Scandinavians to Western Europe. The latter had to abandon physical relocation and switch to the tactics of sea raids - see the Viking Age.
        1. VLR
          April 15 2021 04: 36
          +3
          Hypothesis. But the overwhelming majority of modern researchers still remain on the traditional point of view, considering the Angles, Saxons and Jutes to be Germans, and the ancestors of modern Danes, Norwegians and Swedes as Scandinavians.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 15 2021 10: 24
            -2
            "What will be your evidence" - except for the traditional, God forgive me, "researchers"?
            1. VLR
              April 15 2021 10: 41
              +3
              And your? Have you personally talked with the Saxons, Angles, Danes and others and found out who belongs to whom? M. Bulgakov wrote about this:
              "Your theory is both solid and witty. However, all theories are worth one another."
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 April 14 2021 21: 39
    +1
    "was born from a woman's connection with the devil" probably from his mother he has kindness, and from his daddy love, abundance and magical powers
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 April 14 2021 21: 49
    -3
    "was born from the connection between Arthur and his SISTER Morgause. Probably, then incest was not considered a sin.
    Then the church and doctors came to the conclusion that incest is not welcome. However, let Olgovich not be offended, monarchs, like animals, did not really look at kinship
    1. Richard
      Richard April 15 2021 05: 01
      +3
      The church and the medical profession have come to the conclusion that incest is discouraged. However, let Olgovich not be offended

      Vera, what does Andrei have to do with it? He did not leave a single comment on this topic. Anyway, I never promoted incest belay
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 April 17 2021 09: 09
        0
        Dmitry, Andrey "Olgovich" is a supporter of the monarchy. This is what I was talking about
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 14 2021 23: 06
    +3
    The poems are good, and the article too