The deadlines for the transfer of the upgraded nuclear cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" to the fleet have been postponed

The heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" of project 1144 "Orlan", which is undergoing modernization at the "Sevmash", will return to the Naval fleet in 2023 year.

It is reported TASS with reference to a source in the DIC.

According to the source, the transfer of the cruiser to the Navy is shifting to the right and will occur in 2023, and not in 2022, as previously announced. The reason is problems with suppliers. The source did not provide more specific information.

Due to problems with suppliers, the transfer of the cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" to the fleet has been postponed at best to 2023

- leads news source word agency.

At the end of last year, Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko said that the transfer of the modernized TARKR "Admiral Nakhimov" to the Russian Navy is scheduled for the end of 2022. He noted that work on the ship is proceeding according to schedule, the military department has fully financed the repair. In September 2019, the cruiser was half ready.

The ship has been under repair at Sevmash since the 1999 year, modernization work began only in the 2013 year.

The project 1144 Orlan cruiser Admiral Nakhimov was laid down on May 17, 1983 under the name Kalinin. Launched on April 25, 1986, entered service with the Northern Fleet on December 30, 1988. On April 22, 1992 it was renamed into "Admiral Nakhimov". She is one of four Project 1144 Orlan heavy nuclear cruisers.

Comments

[Sahalinets]

It would be surprising if they hadn't. What do we generally rent on time?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Sahalinets

What do we generally rent on time?

communal apartment until the 10th, then penalties, fines

[Bashkirkhan]

Kommunalka is not directly related to the fleet ... You can endlessly look at three things: how the fire burns, how the water flows, and how the old Soviet heavy cruiser is being repaired. The modernization of "Admiral Nakhimov" has already gone beyond a reasonable price and terms. At the beginning of 2020, Nakhimov has mastered 80 lard since the beginning of modernization, and this is not the final figure. Plus the cost of energy consumption from the plant, plus water, garbage and other "little things in life" will definitely fit a hundred. Here even the admirals had doubts about the scope of modernization of the same type of "Peter the Great", they say, "Admiral Nakhimov" is too expensive, so the scope of work on "Peter the Great" may be significantly limited.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Kommunalka is not directly related to the fleet

well, first of all, it is also connected, heating is electricity, water is all supplied to the fleet and its builders
Well, two - the question was rhetorical and I answered it as best I could

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Tiksi-3

two - the question was rhetorical and I answered it as best I could

Voprs most likely stood in the foreshortening of what is being rented out on time from the ships under construction for the fleet, based on the context of the article. Kommunalka is a concomitant circumstance.

[hrych]

It's simple. He is a promising carrier of Zircon, which is being successfully tested already on the Ships. Therefore, apparently it will intercede already with Zircons, and not only with Onyxes and Calibers. The very shift in terms causes joyful hysteria not among patriots, but among the opposite sex (one of the sexes according to Western classification). The joy is premature. Haste only when catching fleas, let everything be done and brought to perfection, and the timing is just a rough plan. During the period of work, circumstances arise, including positive ones. For example, gunsmiths successfully baked Zircon

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

Haste only when catching fleas,

No one is in a hurry there, neither mice, nor fleas on mice ... Why does the Fleet need ships? The admirals are enough for him.
A very unpleasant sensation from such a mockery of defenses ... yes, at a time when every combat unit counts.

[hrych]

The fleet is not naked. There is a wonderful submarine fleet. There is a powerful coastal defense and naval aviation, including far-field aircraft with powerful missiles. There is also a fleet of BOD, BDK, Cruisers, etc. And our RTOs and Storozhevichki river-sea are even from the Caspian ready to fire up to the Mediterranean. There is a massive rearmament of the fleet with Uranus, Caliber, Onyx and Zircon, while the legacy of Granites, Volcanoes, etc., is far from exhausted. And the Kh-22/32, Daggers, etc. And the aggregate striking power of our fleet, thanks to the overwhelming advantage of our cruise missiles, should not cause you to panic. We still have power projection vessels in the far zone, first of all nuclear submarines are represented, even if the aircraft carrier is under repair, and Nakhimov's exit will coincide with the call to the modernization of Peter, but Peter is in the ranks. Not to mention two types of torpedoes of unlimited range, namely tactical and strategic. The first is for the destruction of enemy formations and naval bases, with a charge ranging from a conventional land mine to a two-megaton SBCH, and the second is generally a "Doomsday torpedo" of a stamegaton class. Those. we have a REVOLUTION of the strike forces of the fleet with hypersonic and nuclear-powered torpedoes; we have a REVOLUTION with over-the-horizon radars, where the enemy's surface fleet is a victim for unpunished massacre.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

The fleet is not naked.

Of course he's not naked.
But with a fig leaf, carried away "to the right" by the terms of the ships. both new and refurbished.
We do not have "Zircons" - they are just being tested.
"Daggers" do not shoot at mobile sea targets (I hope so far), only at stationary ones. But on the naval base - they can.
There is almost no naval aviation.
Especially PLO. What we have - on ancient aircraft with prohibitively weak (in comparison with the enemy) characteristics. Neither about the new PLO aircraft (with a modern armament complex), nor about the sane modernization of the existing ones - silence.
Probably a secret ...
As with AWACS.
There is practically no MRA. Dreams about the Tu-22M3 \ M3M with the X-32 on suspensions remain dreams - they did not marry (the carrier and the rocket), does not fly, does not stand in service ... But they conjure something.
Basic fighter and strike aircraft (Su-30SM and Su-24MR) ... are very few.
"Admiral Kuznetsov", despite all the statements, will not enter service by the end of 2022, because the dock is good for him if it is commissioned by the end of the same year ... Which is also inaccurate.
The dates for the new "Ash-M" have been postponed again - once again.
At the end of the construction of the next 22350, apparently too.

Quote: hrych

And the combined striking power of our fleet, thanks to the overwhelming advantage of our cruise missiles, should not cause you to panic.

In a person with a weak psyche, but more or less knowledgeable ... panic can be caused just by it - "aggregate impact power". Apart from NSNF, of course - this is still - "the last argument of the kings."
But my psyche is strong and accustomed to everyone.
All plans for the construction of new and modernization of old ships have been thwarted.
The news about the "transfer to the law" of the deadlines for their delivery sounds everyday, familiar ... as well as the promises of the next future "breakthroughs".
These breakthroughs break in the wrong places.
And complete, absolute - IRRESPONSIBILITY.
And the Supreme Commander-in-Chief only has in mind ... universal vaccination ...
What to worry about?
After all, the Pechenegs were defeated.
Polovtsev was overpowered.
And if we strain a little more let's go to another breakthrough , then we will certainly overcome the foolish Khazars.
And there will be a feast for the whole world.

... But the feast is bloody ...
But "there will be no war"
Right ?
So Nikolai-2 said the same.
Before RYAV.
And now we have - "everything is like under Nicholas-2".
Sands won't lie.
And the Guarantor does not lie with us.
So we will wait for "the weather by the sea" and all at once we will "throw our hats".
With the Japanese, after all, then won how well it turned out.

[hrych]

Where's your panic? Or are you sowing it? Look at the photo of the Voevoda and Yars, it will immediately feel better With these things, even without a fleet, we will destroy anyone. And if it gets worse, then the passport is Ukrainian, etc. There is nothing to advise you with

Quote: bayard

And the Supreme Commander-in-Chief only has in mind ... universal vaccination ...

Something reminded me of the bearded daughter of a Crimean officer

[bayard]

It reminds you of a Soviet officer from Donetsk, with whom you have already talked.

Quote: hrych

Look at the photo of the Voevoda and Yars, it will immediately feel better

You advise young girls to fantasize on such products.

Quote: hrych

With these things, even without a fleet, we will destroy anyone.

Wow, how did you get it.
Or took in the morning?
The article is not about SNF, but about the Fleet. And about the next "transfers to the right" for an indefinite period. On the eve of the next time we postponed the surrender of “Kazan” and all those following it. "Borei" still without anti-torpedo protection. "Nakhimov" - in the right for an indefinite period. Kuznetsov will definitely not be taken out of repair in 2022. On frigates 22350 - also delays, but at least the power plant went to them. MAPLs are in service - you can count on the fingers of one hand, and new ones are not only not laid down, but also not designed.

Quote: hrych

And if it gets worse, then the Ukrainian passport, etc.

I have two passports - the Russian Federation and the DPR.
And I live in Donetsk.

[hrych]

Quote: bayard

I have two passports - the Russian Federation and the DPR.

Those. Putin gave citizenship, and you throw mud at it? Okay, somehow the General Staff will deal with the Russian Navy without your wise advice

Quote: bayard

It reminds you of a Soviet officer from Donetsk, with whom you have already talked.

You can't remember all of you Swore allegiance to Ukraine How many oaths are there?

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

Swore allegiance to Ukraine

Only to the Soviet Union.

Quote: hrych

Those. Putin gave citizenship,

I was born in Russia .

Quote: hrych

and you throw mud at him?

Is it dirt?
It's true .
To me, as a military specialist, it is obvious.
You don't.
But you are not an expert.
This is not a reproach, but a statement. Everyone can talk about complex and specific issues, but not everyone is right.
Better read the last article by Timokhon, it is useful for the outlook on this topic.
And stop trumpeting "love and loyalty to the Motherland", you did not fight for it, did not endure hardships, did not experience losses.

Quote: hrych

You can't remember all of you

I invited you to us - "to make war". Since the hero is like that.
But more - for an excursion.
Now I don’t call - we have a war again, it’s not for you.

Quote: hrych

Okay, somehow the General Staff will deal with the Russian Navy without your wise advice

What do you know about the General Staff?
Yes, even just - about the headquarters ... the regiment, division, corps?
Everyone can judge only to the extent of their competence.
You don't have one.
And throwing agitation ...

[hrych]

I'm different from you, retired Colonel Retired recently. True, the work was specific. You can't even understand. Donetsk was part of Ukraine, so if he served after 1991, he swore allegiance to Independence. If he didn’t take the oath, then he didn’t serve. In slang for a 70-year-old you can't wait to retire earlier. Maybe, of course, they kicked out In general, your comments are not qualified. I don't feel at all that you can be an army officer. Maybe he served in the construction battalion. Although unlikely. And so, you have solid slogans. And you have agitation. Baseless criticism of the regime. If Putin inherited the USSR, he got the country and the army in ruins after the State Medical University and the EBN. "That is not! This is not!" How do you know? Who shared the information with you? Which admiral? "Kh-32 didn't get married" Who told you that? The missile has been in service for 5 years. Or do you use warehouses with missiles And in general, some kind of collective-farm expression, not an army Got married

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

I'm different from you, retired Colonel

It will not be enough - Marshal.

Quote: hrych

Retired recently. True, the work was specific.

Quote: hrych

You never dreamed.

Yes - Stirlitz and Major Pronin in one bottle.

Quote: hrych

Donetsk was part of Ukraine, so if he served after 1991,

I quit just then - in March.

Quote: hrych

then he swore an oath to the Independent.

Such zashkvar about Nezalezhnaya only Ukrainian trolls themselves.
And your avatar is just theirs, because they consider Svyatoslav theirs.

Quote: hrych

If he didn’t take the oath, then he didn’t serve.

Combat command officer of the air defense unit.
RIC.
Do you know the abbreviation, Colonel?

Quote: hrych

Maybe, of course, they kicked out

Himself, myself - went into science.

Quote: hrych

In general, your comments are not qualified.

What do you young man know about qualifications?
What specific topics are you willing to support discussions on?

Quote: hrych

... I don't feel at all that you can be an army officer. Maybe he served in the construction battalion

That's where it looks like you were urgent and served. Have they even given the sergeant?
Well, you are not pulling at the officer with intellect.
And you can't pull the horizon.
... But perhaps in the construction battalion ... although the smart ones came out from there ...

Quote: hrych

And so, you have solid slogans. And agitation

Quote: hrych

The fleet is not naked. There is a wonderful submarine fleet. There is a powerful coastal defense and naval aviation, including far-field aircraft with powerful missiles

Quote: hrych

There is also a fleet of BOD, BDK, Cruisers, etc. And our RTOs and Storozhevichki river-sea are even from the Caspian ready to fire up to the Mediterranean.

Quote: hrych

There is a massive rearmament of the fleet with Uranus, Caliber, Onyx and Zircon, while the legacy of Granites, Volcanoes, etc., is far from exhausted. A X-22/32, Daggers, etc.

Quote: hrych

And the combined striking power of our fleet, thanks to the overwhelming advantage of our cruise missiles, should not cause you to panic.

From such a syllable, the enemy has long thrown banners and asks for leniency.

Quote: hrych

We still have power projection vessels in the far zone, first of all nuclear submarines are represented, even if the aircraft carrier is under repair, and Nakhimov's exit will coincide with the call to modernization of Peter, but Peter is in the ranks.

Quote: hrych

Not to mention two types of torpedoes of unlimited range, namely tactical and strategic.

Here you, "a colonel of the reserve, recently retired", are bewildering me. What is it that our fleet has such a ... "tactical" torpedo, but of unlimited range?

Quote: hrych

and the second is generally a "Doomsday Torpedo" of the stamegaton class.

Look how - we already have. I didn't know - I didn't know ...
Do we have exactly?
In service?

Quote: hrych

Those. we have a REVOLUTION of the strike forces of the fleet with hypersonic and nuclear-powered torpedoes; we have a REVOLUTION with over-the-horizon radars, where the enemy's surface fleet is a victim for unpunished massacre.

Yes, we have a revolution ... With striking forces so far not very good - "Zircon" has not been adopted for service, "Dagger" so far only hits stationary targets ... but there is hope. And there is not a lot of carriers at all - in order to arrange "unpunished massacre" for the enemy in the ocean and distant sea.

Quote: hrych

And so, you have solid slogans. And you have agitation.

Well, and the X-32, yes, they finished it and even tested it last year, I missed this moment. Although the carriers do not care - the cat cried. And I know about the problems with the "marriage" from those involved.

Quote: hrych

And in general, some kind of collective-farm expression, not an army one Married

Eh ... you are not a military man, Hrych.
Or maybe a political worker ? Painfully your style is bravura.

[hrych]

Too much has been written, I have not read it. I’m too lazy, and there’s nothing to talk about honestly. Your army knowledge boils down to anti-Putin propanganda, not of an officer, but of the Crimean daughter of an officer from Zhmerinka Don't write, don't waste your energy, I won't even read. Criticism of Putin on the Military site is not interesting to me

[hrych]

Quote: bayard

Better read Timokhon's last article

It is clear whom he read and imagined himself to be an officer of the General Staff

Quote: bayard

I invited you to us - "to make war".

To Zhmerinka? You're from there, not from Donetsk.

[bayard]

Quote: hrych

It is clear who has read

I've read a lot in my life.

Quote: hrych

and imagined himself as an officer of the General Staff

Familiar, communicated, but did not belong.

Quote: hrych

Quote: bayard
I invited you to us - "to make war".
To Zhmerinka?

So that's where you come from?
This is the logo you have - Ukrainian nationalists. Since the 90s, they have been trumpeting them.

Quote: hrych

You're from there, not from Donetsk.

Come visit me.
We are waiting for passion as Ukrainian nationalists.

[rjpthju]

- "There is a powerful coastal defense and naval aviation, including long-range aircraft with powerful missiles" ...
Excuse me, dear, where did you see the powerful naval aviation?
By the beginning of the 90s, the Russian fleet had powerful naval aviation .. They included: 145 Tu-22M2 and M3,67 Tu-142,45 Il-38,223 Ka-27, Ka-25 and Mi-14,41 Ka-29 ... In total, more than 500 combat aircraft and helicopters, excluding transport, reconnaissance, rescue and electronic warfare.
As of 2012, the naval aviation fleet includes about 300 aircraft, including transport, reconnaissance, rescue and electronic warfare. Of these, technically sound, capable of performing a combat mission in full, no more than 50%. It was 2012. What do you think happened by 2021?
Where did you consider powerful naval aviation? Pitiful remnants of the old power.

[hrych]

The composition of the Naval Aviation is not what you need, but such as to ensure the country's defense in accordance with the Military Doctrine of the State. And a penny - the price of a huge Soviet army and navy, when this army did not save the USSR from destruction. In this army there was not a single patriot, not a single military leader who would even try to save the country. How was the soldier dressed? The overcoat and the kirzach, everything that the Soviet power was worthy of under the rich, developed socialism. Therefore, do not convince me with references to the USSR, which was destroyed along with its army in kirzach.

[rjpthju]

Doctrine? They just stupidly did not remain, and there are no new ones and are not expected, that's the whole doctrine.

[hrych]

Quote: rjpthju

They just stupidly not left,

Stop talking nonsense

[Alex777]

Something fell on you today ...
Write sensible things, but opponents do not hear.
Spring has come, the way for spring?

[hrych]

Yes, okay, people need to work out The daughters of officers are sitting and not everything is clear

[bayard]

Do not feed the Ukrainian troll - it has an aggravation.
He has already introduced himself to me as a colonel.
And "served" where I never dreamed of.
Where and what I just didn’t dream about in my entire life and 7 years in the war.

[hrych]

Quote: bayard

in my whole life and 7 years in the war

It seems to me that you have two times 7 At 7 I went to school and for the last 7 years you have been at war with the school ... and you won. I mean, the school is hopelessly losing in supplying you with knowledge. I even admit that the armchair, office plankton, but the ceiling of the rank by position was high, because there is a specificity. Here it was necessary to have a civilian university, army schools do not teach this. At least a quarter of a century ago. And I put on shoulder straps after a civilian university. They called. Therefore, the initial rank was officer. Therefore, you really did not dream of the subject. Guess. Three tries. Now I am the head of a branch of a certain all-Russian public organization; I had to take "two hundredths" from the LPNR. I had more contact with the leadership of the LPR, in particular with the deputy of Pasechnik. But the DPR also has exits, so we can celebrate such a heroic fighter like you who has fought for seven years on the front line.

[bayard]

Yesterday my post did not pass ... Yes, this is probably better.
Well, what can I say to you, "older" ... even though you are younger than me ...
The beekeeper is a normal guy. But I'm still in Donetsk.
Pull up and talk. We can also work in some "public organization", since you also imagine that. We can also be in Moscow, when I’m a run over ... I don’t know in which Palestinians you find yourself.

Quote: hrych

Here it was necessary to have a civilian university, army schools do not teach this.

Well, I have more than one education ... though I refused postgraduate studies, at least a couple of times I was invited to Moscow State University ... 90s there was no time for science.

Quote: hrych

Therefore, you really did not dream of the subject

I am familiar with many topics.
And with specifics.
You didn’t dream about much either.
I don't promise an escort, but we'll have some tea.
... And you did not decipher the abbreviation ... apparently the "specificity" prevented ... it happens.

Quote: hrych

Guess. Three tries.

Riddles I myself am a lot of guessing, so we meet and talk.

Quote: hrych

But there are exits to the DPR too.

You see, there are exits.

Quote: hrych

why such a heroic fighter

No, "older" , I'm not a fighter in this war - my health is not the same ... myocardial infarction in 2014, but what I could - I helped.
Maybe we will mark you with something ... maybe we will give you a medal ...
Or maybe we won't.

Quote: hrych

Called

And me, "old man", was called. Only earlier than you.

Quote: hrych

It seems to me that you have gone to school twice 7 to 7 and for the last 7 years you have been at war with the school ... and you win. I mean, the school is hopelessly losing in supplying you with knowledge

But for this - a minus.
Such a "colonel" syllable does not paint.

[bayard]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Voprs most likely stood in the foreshortening of what is being rented out on time from the ships under construction for the fleet

Only "Varshavyanka" for the Pacific Fleet comes to mind.
And with the rest it looks more and more like sabotage, because sloppiness and incompetence also have their limits ... Sabotage - no.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: bayard

Only "Varshavyanki" for the Pacific Fleet come to mind

And then the "Varshavyanka" of the new has only "calibers", it is without on-board antennas, without GPBA as part of the SAC, with an old "good" cylindrical antenna with an acoustic part as in the 877s. We will not go into details, but with an old screw, and let's say so far from a new electro-mechanical part. And I'm not talking about all the hackneyed questions from VNEU and AB. That is why Varshavyanka is being built quickly.

[Alex777]

And in the States, the super-duper rocket refused to fly - it did not detach from the plane. Sabotage too? BLM?

[bayard]

Negros nut not dokrutili.
I’ve been angry since yesterday ... After all, everything seemed to be clear with this freak - "Daring Mercury", but when I read the description of his GEM ... After all, they just wrote before - an experimental GEM with electromotion. Well, what is easier? We have implemented this both on submarines and on icebreakers, and the Mistral was like that - on electric steering columns ...
But THAT was what this GEM turned out to be .... I'm still in a culture shock.
I just talked with a friend on this topic on Skype, told me about this design ... He zadolbali me with questions "why so", "why such a decision", "and what caused", "but after all, they should have been like that to explain it ... why THIS "... And no one explains anything. It's just that someone took it into their heads that "we need to make an electric movement" ...
- Why?
- Fashionable, will not make noise on the search for submarines.
- Okay, but then the propulsion motor will be VERY large and heavy, and our ship is light.
- Why ?
- Low-speed, they are all like that. There is no other way.
- And if the e \ d is made smaller, but of the same power. Can ?
- It is possible, but it will already be high-speed, and you will have to install a reduction gear.
- So put it!
- So he will make noise and get a monstrous loss of mlnosti ...
- Do, they tell you! But it will be fashionable, modular ... and ELECTRIC MOTION ... I'll give money.
- I will

This is approximately how it was solved in the BEST case for us.
And the questions "Why then do we need to convert the torque into electricity, it turns the electric motor, which will rotate the shaft through the gearbox (!!!)? Let's just transfer the torque from the engine (diesel, turbine) through the gearbox to the shaft. The power on the shaft will be more "..... swept aside as retrograde and self-will of subordinates ...
But from WHAT TOP did such nonsense have to be let down?
Or is everything simpler, and a certain leader lobbies for just SUCH a project with SUCH GEM, not at all out of stupidity and stubbornness, but ... out of some selfish and very unkind interest?
Comrade Beria's department would certainly be interested in such a phenomenon.
But in our country such departments cannot do anything even with the lobbyists and developers of Zaslon.
And there are similar examples on other projects ... "Ash" for example ...

That's why I'm angry.
And Putin has nothing to do with it.
Yes, he has nothing to do with in many other things ... You have already seen HOW his decrees and orders are carried out.
And how SOMEONE broke through it under himself.
Remember at least the epic on the eve of the approval of the "Pension reform".
After all, no matter how he resisted, he was forced.
And he signed.
And he did not cancel it after the championship.
So what kind of claims can there be ... They can only be presented to the one who MAKES decisions.

And the amers' rocket will fly sooner or later - not so hot what aeroballistic complexity is. but the longer they fail, the less problems we will have from such weapons.

[lucul]

The modernization of "Admiral Nakhimov" has already gone beyond a reasonable price and terms

Yes, there from the old, in fact, only the body remains. The ship is not small - the Zaslon alone pulls $ 100 million.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: lucul

The modernization of "Admiral Nakhimov" has already gone beyond a reasonable price and terms

Yes, there from the old, in fact, only the body remains. The ship is not small - the Zaslon alone pulls $ 100 million.

Yes, they would sooner be completed! It is clear that the new weapons must be brought to mind, all these "Zircons" and that there will still be stuck on the ship. But the situation in the world today is such that this Hero of the Russian land (USSR-Russia) is now very necessary ... A friendly visit to Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, a couple of times will pass by the Angles ... will overtake Europe .... And if under it there is a couple of nuclear submarine cruisers in general beauty .. You look and "partners" - their mother is an American woman! - organize peace negotiations .. Talking about peace, all over the world, is much better than waiting for a war.

[bayard]

It seems that is why they pull the cat by the genitals, so that he does not have time to go to war.
For such efforts, they pay well, and the medal will be hanged ... American ... and English side by side.
But the Supreme Commander-in-Chief is now only interested in vaccination.
... the general ...

[Alex777]

Without GDP, the cynical Bandera would have pushed you long ago.
Sorry to be blunt, but I don't recognize you lately.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

Without GDP, the cynical Bandera would have pushed you long ago.

But the shelling is regular.

Quote: Alex777

Sorry for being straightforward, but I don't recognize you lately

I've been angry lately.
There is a lot of grief from a lot of knowledge ... And this does not apply to Putin. It has long been known how his decrees and orders are being carried out. This is just a statement of fact and indignation about it.

[Alex777]

I've been angry lately.

The reasons are clear. But we still have to be patient.

And this does not apply to Putin either. It has long been known how his decrees and orders are being carried out.

Enemies spread rumors. Do not believe everyone.
In addition, you have to work with those who have it.
And he has no "other writers" for us.
For 3 years he personally prepared the reunification with the Crimea.
And he was able to outwit all the enemies of Russia.
Without Crimea and Syria, there would not have been.
With all the sad consequences.
I watch him work for a long time and watch with interest.
There is no equal to him yet. Including the ability to wait for the right moment to start acting.
He's gotten a lot tougher lately.
We have our own serious events taking place.
Much will be clear soon. Months in 2.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

Enemies spread rumors. Do not believe everyone.

I'm not talking about rumors.
And the fact that he is kept in the dark about many things ... Only one case with an attempt to deceive him about the bookmarking of "another ship", but in fact "re-laying", or rather renaming the "Daring" to "Mercury" ... After all, even a small scandal happened ...
Therefore, I'm talking about something completely different ...
About sad things.

Quote: Alex777

For 3 years he personally prepared the reunification with the Crimea.

I know this from people who have been preparing for these three years, and then implemented - they met in 2014 in Crimea.

Quote: Alex777

He's gotten a lot tougher lately.

I expected this from him at the beginning of last year ... but the opposite happened.
Again - not a fault, but a statement. Politics is always the art of the possible.

Quote: Alex777

We have our own serious events taking place.
Much will be clear soon. Mask in 2.

It is during these two months that nasty things should be expected.
Big ones.
They are expected here tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.
Let's see how it goes.

[Alex777]

he is kept in the dark about many things ... Only one case with an attempt to deceive him about the laying of "one more ship", but in fact "re-laying", or rather renaming the "Daring" into "Mercury" ...

If he doesn't blow his head off in public, that doesn't mean he can be foolish enough. He is a specially trained person with incredible experience and there are enough loyal people around him.

I know this from people who have been preparing for these three years, and then implemented - they met in 2014 in Crimea.

You know. I know. And many people cannot believe it.

Again - not a fault, but a statement. Politics is always the art of the possible.

Yes. As soon as the ruler loses the support of the majority, there is a risk that he will lose power.
The states not only sleep and see that this will suddenly happen, but also do a lot for this.
And the GDP has to provide this support for the majority in different ways.
So far, I don’t understand one thing - the pension reform. Anyway.
Unlike different dictators, the GDP will not sit in office all his life. Therefore, massive repression is not suitable for him.
So you have to do a tremendous job under certain restrictions.

They are expected here tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

I may be wrong, but I believe that Ze still will not risk a big war.
So let's hope for the best.
A couple of ideas for a good mood.
We are actively making container nuclear power plants.
This is, of course, not a reactor.
Like Petrel, it does not have a reactor.
These CAEUs should be ready by 2023.
The most powerful unit will produce 1 MW.
How do you like 2 such containers for 20386?
This means that you have never heard anything reasonable about why 20386 is the way it is ...

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

I may be wrong, but I believe that Ze still will not risk a big war.

If the curators make a decision, no one will ask him.
Another thing is that the sabotage of the military is possible ... But for this they have the National Battalions.
Today and yesterday I heard arrivals from the center of Donetsk. In general, the coming days will show.

Quote: Alex777

A couple of ideas for a good mood.
We are actively making container nuclear power plants.
This is, of course, not a reactor.
Like Petrel, it does not have a reactor.
These CAEUs should be ready by 2023.
The most powerful unit will produce 1 MW.
How do you like 2 such containers for 20386?
This means that you have never heard anything reasonable about why 20386 is the way it is ...

Suddenly ...
This really does not remove the question of the irrationality of the layout of the corvette and the placement of the radar (its canvases) so low - the ship is already low, it will not be able to cope with low-flying CDs.
But as an experimental vessel for testing a power plant will do.
But questions remain - high-speed electric motors will work through a gearbox, and this is noise ... however, it is still quieter than with diesel engines.
And if I think correctly, there will be about 4400 l / s on the shafts, and this is only a small and exploratory move. But for jerks and maximum speed, of course the turbines ...
Such a power plant on diesel-electric submarines as a VNEU, as Klimov suggested, would be very interesting.
And for the corvette ...

[Alex777]

I have no classified information on the fleet.
But nothing prevents me from analyzing events and figuring out when and where they will then converge at one point.

If the curators make a decision, no one will ask him.

On the one hand, this is so.
And on the other hand:

Another thing is that military sabotage is possible.

I heard that Ukrainian hospitals are packed with covid patients.
For a large-scale offensive, a bed fund is needed, where the wounded will be placed. The confidence that you will not be abandoned if you are injured is needed even by the National Battalions.
Fire - yes they will. But as the SP-2 ends, so the unpunished shooting will end.
SP-2 is being built according to a special project - it can be used to supply hydrogen. And hydrogen is very volatile - you need special gaskets to keep it in the pipe.
The supply of hydrogen is the reason why the United States is so struggling with SP-2. And I would venture to suggest that this is the reason for the current exacerbation in you.
Withstand the pressure - it will be easier for all of us in the future.

Suddenly ...
This really does not remove the question of the irrationality of the layout of the corvette and the placement of the radar (its canvases) so low - the ship is already low, it will not be able to cope with low-flying CDs.

As an escort, 1144.1 will do just fine. He will receive all instructions from the cruiser. And everything is high there.
But the advantages in terms of cruising range, seaworthiness and autonomy - everything will be with him. As well as "invisibility".
Let me emphasize that for now these are only my own thoughts.
I am only showing that without knowing the purpose of the ship, you cannot be 100% sure that you know the truth.

Such a power plant on diesel-electric submarines as a VNEU

And here you, IMHO, correctly calculated the perspective.
I think and hope exactly the same.
Do you remember the hints in the press that on the recently "lost" by NATO anti-aircraft missile forces in the Varshavyanka SZM, there are special underwater engines? Not the same as before.
PS The same Kedmi said: another 3-4 years and no one will be able to attack Russia.
Personally, I really hope so.
Then all issues can be resolved without much bloodshed.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

As an escort, 1144.1 will do just fine.

He is not suitable for a cruiser as an escort - the speeds are different. Cruising \ economic progress.
20 - 25 knots for a cruiser and 10 - 12 for a corvette.
And for search - only for DPL without VNEU. The Japanese have a speed of up to 20 knots in low noise mode.
And Virginia has a stealth mode of up to 20 knots.
To chase these, you will have to turn on the turbines.
Is that for service in the pouring zones and for the protection of the water area ... But there are bases nearby, which means refueling ...
But if it is an experimental one, let it be. Still, the order of pr. 20380 and 20385 suggests that the MO has let go of the whim a little.
Still, with the "Zaslon" to figure it out, otherwise the Investigative Committee can not get rid of these Kulibins in remote places for re-education - the roof ... powerful, gable ...

Quote: Alex777

He will receive all instructions from the cruiser. And everything is high there.

Yes, the fact of the matter is that it is they, the escort ships, who must protect the flagship from low-altitude and anti-submarine threats. And not hide behind him. In combat escort, as a rule, air defense / anti-aircraft defense ships. And "Daring Mercury" can not be called such in any way ... at least in terms of air defense. I am still a former air defense officer, a radar specialist. So the placement of radar canvases on the walls of the superstructure of a low ship is some kind of cargo cult - a la "Zumwalt" in miniature. Senseless and merciless.
That is, as a warship - its value is not great. Is that the provision of PLO in a remote area with high autonomy (for a long time without rotation), dissolving the BUGAS and loading the PLUR into the cells ... So, after all, its subtle GAS is worse than that of 20380 \ 85 ...
In short, a whim.

Quote: Alex777

But the advantages in terms of cruising range, seaworthiness and autonomy - everything will be with him. As well as "invisibility".

Autonomy - perhaps seaworthiness ... much worse than 22350. At an equal price.
I repeat - even with a new power plant for small / economic speed, it is worse than a frigate in everything. With an equal price. And as a specialized ship, the PLO ... has an insufficient subkeeping GAS.
In a word, the concept is incomprehensible.
But what was removed from the eling is good.

Quote: Alex777

Remember the hints in the press that on the recently "lost" by NATO ASW forces in the Varshavyanka SZM, there are special underwater engines

To believe in the press is not to respect oneself, incompetence there is not just screaming ... it is just a "trumpet voice" of ignorance. But yes - they lost the boat, it did not surface for a long time. So it can crawl up to two weeks on conventional batteries at 3 nodes ... so it used to be there - under the belly of an aircraft carrier. and they got excited ...

Quote: Alex777

PS The same Kedmi said: another 3-4 years and no one will be able to attack Russia

Kedmi is certainly a competent interlocutor, but he is still a representative of another state and other special services ... and do not forget that in 1993 he and a group of special forces arrived from his country to ours ... just then ...
And in 2014 he arrived in Ukraine, and also with a group.
This had no positive effect on the course of events, but neither in 1993 nor in 2014, not a single Israeli was hurt.
And these same 3-4 years, by definition, will be the most difficult.
Precisely because after them a completely different quality is expected.

At the beginning of 1904, Russia needed another 1,5 - 2 years. And there would be a completely different quality and balance of power.
But Russia was not given this.
In 1941, the USSR needed another year or a year and a half, and Germany simply would not dare to rock the boat with such power ... But she rock the boat in the summer of 1941.
It's good that we have built all the critical missile defense systems, and there are strategic nuclear forces sufficient to contain ... But the mad dog (and the dog really got mad) sometimes tears the strict collar too.
You cannot be weak and careless at such times.

[Alex777]

He is not suitable for a cruiser as an escort - the speeds are different. Cruising \ economic progress.
20 - 25 knots for a cruiser and 10 - 12 for a corvette.

Let's wait and see what speed someone will have.
If the escort is 22350 - the speed of the tanker will be decisive.

Japanese submarines have a speed of up to 20 knots in low noise mode.
And Virginia has a stealth mode of up to 20 knots.

There are different ways of detecting. Not only GUS.
And the noiselessness at 20 nodes is an advertising statement. It still needs to be verified by practice.

Yes, the fact of the matter is that it is they, the escort ships, who must protect the flagship from low-altitude and anti-submarine threats. And not hide behind him.

Here you are specifically wrong. All air defense AUG US NAVY, as a rule, is provided by teams from the Ticonderoga-class cruiser. Ordinary Berks on REO lose to him and cannot perform the function properly.
BIUS Nakhimov - the most powerful and directly designed to control the OMS of escort ships. Assessment of threats, distribution of goals, etc. Well, there will be a corresponding REO.

Another would be to deal with the "Barrier"

Intuition prompts that by the appointed time everything will work. Believe me, check it out.

I am still a former air defense officer, a radar specialist.

I received shoulder straps in PVURE.

So the placement of radar canvases on the walls of the superstructure of a low ship is some kind of cargo cult - a la "Zumwalt" in miniature.

On the forum, no one will tell us the purpose of such an innovative ship as 20386. We don't even know its final shape. Therefore, any conclusions on it are premature.
Head Ash and Borey are quite different from the serial ones.
I have ideas why this is all right and good, but I will keep them to myself for now.
I can only repeat what I wrote earlier: for the development of the fleet, IMHO, it makes sense to use a pair of corvette 20386 and frigate 22350M.
As 10 years ago the pair 20380/385 and 22350 made sense.
I don't see much sense in a pair of 20386 and 22350.
Including for the price, and for other reasons you have given.
But according to 20380/20385, it has already been said that their RCS is large: about 1000 m2. The first "invisible pancake" was not very successful. Development is needed.

But yes - they lost the boat, it did not surface for a long time. So it can crawl for up to two weeks on ordinary batteries at 3 nodes ...

A standard Varshavyanka cannot but emerge for so long. She does not have VNEU.

You cannot be weak and careless at such times.

You can't. But you understand that I cannot write the most interesting here. Therefore, I say: you need to be patient a little more and everything will gradually work out.
Psaka recently announced that there will be no new sanctions in the near future. The ruble immediately strengthened slightly.
The first swallow.
https://topcor.ru/19414-iskandery-perebrosheny-v-prigranichnye-s-ukrainoj-rajony.html?yrwinfo=1617987087256531-585497253664968007900232-prestable-app-host-sas-web-yp-183

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

There are different ways of detecting. Not only GUS.

Yes, but if you are talking about magnetometers and the radar method for the ring effect, then this is for aviation ... though you can implement this on a helicopter, but it will not be constantly in the air.

Quote: Alex777

Here you are specifically wrong. All air defense AUG US NAVY, as a rule, is provided by teams from the Ticonderoga-class cruiser. Ordinary Berks on REO lose to him and cannot perform the function properly.

This is precisely because of the low-lying AFAR canvases - the difficulty with low-altitude targets. A cruiser has a higher canvas, and in general - a cruiser is a cruiser.
BOD / frigates 1155 are best suited for "Nakhimov" as an escort. Especially after repairs. Yes, he basically goes with them. They match well in speed.

Quote: Alex777

Intuition prompts that by the appointed time everything will work. Believe me, check it out.

There is also a question of price. For a corvette, even 20386 such a radar is pure gold, that is, it is outrageous.

Quote: Alex777

I received shoulder straps in PVURE.

Is this Poltava? Military air defense?
I VVKURE Air Defense. He was later transferred to Gorelovo near St. Petersburg from Vilnius ... and now he is not there at all.

Quote: Alex777

I can only repeat what I wrote earlier: for the development of the fleet, IMHO, it makes sense to use a pair of corvette 20386 and frigate 22350M.

I would pick a pair of two 22350Ms for the same price. The cost of the 22350M is estimated to be about 20% higher than the 22350. I am still a supporter of classic ships with weapons and combat capabilities corresponding to their class.
And there is no need for the industry and the military budget to spread out on all sorts of experiments, when each built combat unit is worth its weight in gold. It is only necessary to build ships that are really useful for the combat readiness of the Navy.

Quote: Alex777

But according to 20380/20385, it has already been said that their RCS is large: about 1000 m2. The first "invisible pancake" was not very successful. Development is needed.

Well, there are no "invisible" ships.
As well as stealthy planes.
For ships, this is generally a cargo cult of some kind. Ships become unjustifiably expensive, take longer to build, composite superstructures impose a number of restrictions and difficulties. As a result, the ship glows just as well on the screen ... just not so bright

Quote: Alex777

A standard Varshavyanka cannot but emerge for so long. She does not have VNEU.

Or maybe she drifted there - motionless.
But if you are right, then there can be no better VNEU. The best VNEU - NPP.
Well, the "swallow" is good.
Hurry to work, but finish this bedlam ... I have a house on the other side.

[Alex777]

A cruiser has a higher canvas, and in general - a cruiser is a cruiser.

The cruiser has 2 canvases in front and 2 on the stern superstructure.
And other differences. It’s not a matter of height.
I read one state admiral. He argued that it is very difficult to provide air defense for the AUG without a cruiser.

Is this Poltava?

Pushkin. Near St. Petersburg. In the barracks of the Life Guards Hussar Regiment. The British crown built the barracks as a gift for the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty.

I would pick a pair of two 22350Ms for the same price.

I would venture to suggest that the power industry of 22350M will be significantly higher than by 22350. For a more powerful electronic equipment and installation of various complexes based on new principles.

Well, there are no "invisible" ships.

Swedish corvette Visby - inconspicuous, dog.
And the first Zamvolt with reflectors went out to sea.
He frightened civilian sailors. It was alleged that he had a mark at the level of a fishing ship.

Well, the "swallow" is good.

Quoting Psaki, I got excited ...
I myself saw her say that new sanctions are not being considered.
https://news.ru/usa/belyj-dom-oproverg-skoroe-vvedenie-sankcij-protiv-vlastej-rossii/
The next day she changed her shoes as usual.

I can confirm: the consequences will be - visible and invisible... We hope to inform you about it soon.

We will survive. The main thing is calmness.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

The cruiser has 2 canvases in front and 2 on the stern superstructure.
And other differences. It’s not a matter of height.
I read one state admiral. He argued that it is very difficult to provide air defense for the AUG without a cruiser.

For the efficiency of the radar, the pulse power, the sensitivity of the receivers, the correctly selected frequency range, noise immunity, multichannel and the height of the radar canvases are important.
And for the air defense system as a whole - the quality and quantity of missiles.
The cruiser and the radar are more powerful, and the canvases are higher, and there are more missiles.
That's why he is a cruiser.

Quote: Alex777

Pushkin. Near St. Petersburg.

Here is sclerosis, of course Pushkin.

Quote: Alex777

In the barracks of the Life Guards Hussar Regiment. The British crown built the barracks as a gift for the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty.

And ours is in Vilnius - in the former Sapieha estate, two of his palaces were under the barracks, but my course was located in a new building ... and then in a hostel.

Quote: Alex777

I would venture to suggest that the power industry of 22350M will be significantly higher than by 22350. For a more powerful electronic equipment and installation of various complexes based on new principles.

The power engineering of the power plant will definitely be more powerful - turbopairs on the M-70FRU and M-90FR (14 + 000 l / s on each shaft), the speed and dynamics will definitely increase. But I am not very sure about the abundance of the new avionics, and he does not need it - "Polyment-Redoubt" is quite sufficient, but the BC will increase significantly. Incl. and on the KR in the UKSK - they promised 27, but in light of the latest modification of the laid down 500 from 48 in 22350.1 UKSK, it is quite possible that at 32 there will still be 4 KR in 22350 UKSK, and a doubled BC SAM.
And this is already a full-fledged destroyer, even though they called him a frigate.
And on the basis of "new principles", he can only use a laser - for work on UAVs and missile launchers, but with a limited range ... the attenuation coefficient is too large.

Quote: Alex777

Quoting Psaki, I got excited ...
I myself saw her say that new sanctions are not being considered.

Quote: Alex777

The next day she changed her shoes as usual.

She checked in the office.
Of course they will press until they get it back.
And the best answer is to return their Russian lands - Little Russia, Novorossiya, Slobozhanshchina. Yes, and Galicia would not hurt - not to give it to the Poles. And scrub it clean. With the work of military tribunals, with the new "Nuremberg Trial".
Only the strong are respected and reckoned with.
Therefore, strength must be shown.

[Alex777]

"Polyment-Redut" is quite sufficient

For the 22350M, a long-range missile (> 300 km) is necessary. They promise on the basis of 40N6.

And the best answer is to return their Russian lands - Little Russia, Novorossiya, Slobozhanshchina. Yes, and Galicia would not hurt - not to give it to the Poles. And scrub it clean. With the work of military tribunals, with the new "Nuremberg Trial".

I completely agree not to give anything away.
Only we won't need Nuremberg.
Let's find another good city.

Only the strong are respected and reckoned with.
Therefore, strength must be shown.

As I said, half of the success of using force is the right moment.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

For the 22350M, a long-range missile (> 300 km) is necessary. They promise on the basis of 40N6.

Oo-oo, again long-term construction, fine-tuning, alterations.
There is no need to inflate the capabilities of a ship of 7000 - 8000 tons to the level of a cruiser. For such a VI and for the normal pace of construction, a proven project with a relatively LOW coefficient of novelty is needed. Otherwise - long-term construction and low quality with the failure of all plans.
22350 turned out quite well and has only a drawback:
- insufficient ammunition
- the speed of the economic, and also the maximum speed.
- well, more autonomy is desirable
, for services in the oceanic zone.
All these problems are solved on the 22350M:
- turbo couples with power addition on the gearbox, which will give a good economic speed and over 30 knots at maximum,
- more VI will give a larger supply of fuel, which means greater range and autonomy,
- the increased BC will allow you to act autonomously or in a group and conduct combat operations of medium and high intensity.
In fact, it can become an analogue of "Burke" in all characteristics, and due to its advantage as a strike weapon, it can have an advantage over it in a duel situation.
And if you want to integrate the S-400 air defense system, or even the S-500, on a ship, then you need a cruiser ... you can call it a destroyer as well - like the Chinese. It is best to build it on a power plant of 4 (two turbopairs) M90FR \ FRU.
In VI there are about 12 - 000 tons.
From UKSK to 80 hypersonic and KR.
And with an air defense system based on the hot S-400.
Or even the S-500.
And no nuclear "Leaders" for $ 2 billion.
But with a strong desire, THIS can be called a "Leader" ... besides, initially, the "Leader" had two hypostases - atomic and gas turbine.
Gas turbine is much better.

Quote: Alex777

Only we won't need Nuremberg.
Let's find another good city.

That's why I took it in quotes. Kiev or Donetsk will do just fine.
In Kiev, this whole mess began.
In Donetsk (generally in Donbass), all major crimes have been committed.
And the main thing is not to lose a convenient moment ... as already happened in 2014.

[Alex777]

There is no need to inflate the capabilities of a ship of 7000 - 8000 tons to the level of a cruiser.

Look:
1. The Berks, with their 7000t, have the SM-3 range of 700-2500 km.
2. The launch range of new SVPs at the limit of 9M96D.
3. We need to drive AWACS and EW aircraft for 300 km.
Take the destroyers of Japan, South Korea, Australia, etc.
It's the same for everyone. SM-2 ER, SM-6 ERAM - 240 km.
IMHO needs a "long arm" and the ability to bring down without restrictions all flying hovercraft in the near zone (like the Sea Ceptor).

It is best to build it on a power plant of 4 (two turbopairs) M90FR \ FRU

IMHO, such a solution will provide the required energy level of 22350M.
On Berks with their ~ 7000 tons - 4 LM 2500 at ~ 25 hp.

And no nuclear "Leaders" for $ 2 billion.

The Leaders are entrusted with the tasks of a regional missile defense system.
When we can build such a thing, it will be good.
We cannot yet. But on Nakhimov everything will be run in for them IMHO. So that you can build quickly and without problems later.
And when we are going to build serious ships, we will need to build them quickly and a lot. Like in China.
History tells us that as soon as Russia begins to build a serious fleet, they immediately try to inculcate it into global problems.

And the main thing is not to lose a convenient moment ... as already happened in 2014.

Have you seen my comment about nuclear power plants in 2014?

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

Take the destroyers of Japan, South Korea, Australia, etc.
It's the same for everyone. SM-2 ER, SM-6 ERAM - 240 km.
IMHO needs a "long arm" and the ability to bring down without restrictions all flying hovercraft in the near zone (like the Sea Ceptor).

All this beauty to counter our heavy supersonic high-profile anti-ship missiles. Against the "Zircon" and "Dagger" (if taught by ships) is unlikely to help.
We need ships and as soon as possible. Therefore, the 22350M should be put into production in blocks. And the first block (sub-series) with the Polyment-Redut air defense system and the existing appearance, double-enlarged strike armament and air defense missile systems, X-2 Uranus for safety (they don't need a lot of space, but it will be useful), two helicopters. We already surpass them in quality with their shock capabilities, but Fort-M (S-35) will not save them from their low-altitude anti-ship missiles of a new type, but Redoubt will cope ... and Pantsir-M. This will be enough for the first sub-series, and if there are successes with the new radar, then on the next one it is already possible to implement this too.

Quote: Alex777

IMHO, such a solution will provide the required energy level of 22350M.
On Berks with their ~ 7000 tons - 4 LM 2500 at ~ 25 hp.

This will be overkill. Two M-70FRU and two M-90FR, these are 2 x 14 + 000 x 2 = 27 + 500 = 28 l / s. For a ship of 000 tons, this power for 55 knots is enough, but more is not needed. But on an economical run it will be quite economical, without overspending.
But 4 x 27 = 500 hp - this power for a cruiser of 110 tons is enough for 000 - 14 knots. The Chinese have more powerful turbines on the same (000 l / s), but they have implemented electric propulsion (losses on double conversion are large) and power reserve for powering combat lasers.
So 4 pcs. M-90FR is quite enough. In WWII, cruisers with such a VI and with such a power of 33 - 34 knots were issued.

Quote: Alex777

We cannot yet. But on Nakhimov everything will be run in for them IMHO. So that you can build quickly and without problems later.

The complexity, timing and cost of work on the Nakhimov show how harmful the topic of nuclear cruisers is. In the USSR, the Eagles were worn out - they turned out to be more expensive than aircraft carriers of the Krechet type. And in operation too.
Now the hand is being filled at 22350, and if the frigates 11356 were built in 3,5 years from laying down to delivery, then after debugging the technical process and cooperation, 22350 should be built in 4 - 5 years, no more. And 22350M in the form I described, for 5 - 5,5 years, there is not much difference.
After the launch of the 22350M series, it is possible to proceed with the cruiser / destroyer VI 12 - 000 tons, and lay them in the new eling of St. Petersburg. You will need 14 of these.

Quote: Alex777

History suggests that as soon as Russia begins to build a serious fleet, they immediately try to inculcate it into global problems.

Well, this is exactly what we are seeing now.

Quote: Alex777

Have you seen my comment about nuclear power plants in 2014?

I do not remember . I myself wrote on these topics.
And about the mined hydraulic structures along the entire course of the Dnieper ... Dnieper was mined first - September 1, 2014.
And I spoke about the NPP back in the spring of 2014 ...
In fact, the inhabitants of the country were taken hostage.

[Alex777]

We already surpass them in terms of their shock capabilities, but the Fort-M (S-400) will not save them from their low-altitude anti-ship missiles of the new type, but the Redoubt will cope ... and the Pantsir-M

Are you aware that the S-400 can control both Buk and Thor?
There is every reason to believe that Nakhimov's BIUS can control the Redoubt and Armor. And not only our own, but also the escort ships.
So don't worry about low-altitude anti-ship missiles.
Reflecting the raid of 28 anti-radar missiles carried by the F-18 unit is a more difficult task. Dimensions, speed, dive, quantity. But also solvable.

Two M-70FRU and two M-90FR, these are 2 x 14 + 000 x 2 = 27 + 500 = 28 l / s. For a ship of 000 tons, this capacity is enough for 55 knots.

Not sure. But it's not about maximum speed.
The Yankees did not supply 4 identical turbines for nothing.
100 hp for 000 tons of standard VI.
They thus ensured a cruising speed of 20 knots, which is essential for the successful operations of the AUG.
In addition, they have the necessary energy reserve.
They can simultaneously walk at high speed and use all the electronic equipment, attacking or defending themselves.
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/ddg-51-flight-iii/
https://topwar.ru/142060-esmincy-arleigh-burke-flight-iii-stroitelstvo-nachalos.html

But 4 x 27 = 500 hp - this power for a cruiser of 110 tons is enough for 000 - 14 knots. In WWII, cruisers with such a VI and with such a power of 000 - 32 knots were issued.

110 hp for 000 tons it may not be enough.
Therefore, we started thinking about the AEU.
Don't even remember WWII.
There were completely different lines of the hulls.
The GAS did not need to be placed, and so on.
However, it is quite possible that the 22350M is also called a frigate because missile defense missions are not assigned to it, unlike destroyers.
And it is quite possible that Redoubt will be enough for him. We'll see.

And about the mined hydraulic structures along the entire course of the Dnieper ... Dnieper was mined first - September 1, 2014.
And I spoke about the NPP back in the spring of 2014 ...

You are the second person who knows. Most don't believe.
And my source personally communicated with the organizer of this.
From him and I learned how everything was.
I know that at first they did not believe the ultimatum. But intelligence confirmed everything. Therefore, the offensive was stopped and Mariupol was abandoned. And people write nonsense about bribery of the environment of the GDP.
I picked up 11 cons on this topic a couple of weeks ago.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

Are you aware that the S-400 can control both Buk and Thor?

But still, "Fort-M" is an air defense system for a larger ship, in order to be able to realize its full potential and place a sufficient ammunition missile system.

Quote: Alex777

The Yankees did not supply 4 identical turbines for nothing.
100 hp for 000 tons of standard VI.

The Yankees simply didn’t have other turbines, they are, and so on, all that can be put - unification.

Quote: Alex777

They thus ensured a cruising speed of 20 knots, which is essential for the successful operations of the AUG.

At 28 l / s 000M they can also keep this speed. For extrapolation, we recall the Bogatyr cruiser from the times of the RYAW with a power plant of 22350 l / s and a maximum speed of 20 knots. With the same VI as the 22350M.
GAK, other contours, this is understandable, of course, but the ships of that period had quite a ramming "tusks", not very rational stems, and there were almost no dumps ...
And "Bayan", having a power plant of 17 l / s, a greater VI and draft, developed 000 knots.
And we have as much as 28 l / s for the economic progress.
Look at our magnificent 1155 with its "Polynomial", power and speed characteristics - there the power plant is seriously weaker (22 and 500 l / s, respectively), and the speed is max. = 9 knots, economic - 000 knots (this is either on one main turbine, or on two but with half power). Even he can keep up to 30 knots at cruising speed.

Quote: Alex777

110 hp for 000 tons it may not be enough.

Enough with a head and a margin of power.
Italian and French cruisers with such power were tested up to 34 - 35 knots. 30 - 32 knots are enough for us.
The power of the GEM 22350M with the addition of a steam turbine and its power supply from the heat recovery unit of the main (M70FRU) turbine would probably be enough for us. Moreover, they would have received about the same power of 100 - 000 l / s, but with a fuel consumption of the 110M.
And this is not a joke, such a power plant is implemented on the cruisers of the project 1164. Only there as many as four turbines work on one shaft, one of them is steam, in conjunction with the main one.
Soviet engineering genius.

Quote: Alex777

You are the second person who knows. Most don't believe.
And my source personally communicated with the organizer of this.

I was one of the first to know about it ... it just so happened.

Quote: Alex777

I know that at first they did not believe the ultimatum. But intelligence confirmed everything. Therefore, the offensive was stopped and Mariupol was abandoned. And people write nonsense about bribery of the environment of the GDP.

But the fact is that on the same day they received the ultimatum, but it reached Poroshenko a little later - on the night of September 2–3. And on the same night he called Lukashenka and begged (!) Him to organize a meeting in Minsk ... without the participation of the Americans.
... but by that time they had already left Mariupol ... alone and recalled the lead detachments from ... already the Zaporozhye region.
And how much that ultimatum worked then can be seen from the behavior of Poroshenko and Putin at Minsk-1 ... And with the words from this ultimatum, Poroshenko justified himself then before his parliament.

Quote: Alex777

And people write nonsense about bribery of the environment of GDP.

And that was - we live under capitalism. There were many differently directed actions.
... BB was very helpful then.
But many mistakes were made later ... by the environment ...

[Alex777]

The Yankees simply didn’t have other turbines, they are, and so on, all that can be put - unification.

There were no other turbines - I had fun.

GAK, other contours, this is understandable, of course, but the ships of that period had quite a ramming "tusks", not very rational stems, and there were almost no dumps ...

Here's an example of a cruiser. Compare with 22350.
If we have enough 2 types of turbines for all ships, then I will only be glad.

And this is not a joke, such a power plant is implemented on the cruisers of the project 1164 ... Soviet engineering genius.

Yeah. So far I have not met anyone who would consider this scheme worthy of imitation. Consumption again ...

But the fact is that on the same day they received the ultimatum, but it reached Poroshenko a little later.

This explains a lot.

There were many differently directed actions. ... BB was very helpful then. But many mistakes were made later ... by the environment ...

It was time to analyze everything.
According to what kind of naughty thing is going on with us, there is an opinion that everything will be like VVP said: if the Banderas go on the attack, we will question the statehood of Ukraine.
Biden's speech completely untied his hands.
I believe that we have already prepared for all the surprises.
Let's hope for the best and that there won't be a lot of blood in any case. The Slavs do not need it.
And the debanderization of Ukraine and the cleansing of any advisers / volunteers are necessary.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

There were no other turbines - I had fun.

At that time it was really so, and they did not want new R&D. Yes, they are generally very rational in unification, and this is not a sin for us to learn. In addition, indeed, this gave a high cruising speed, which is important for an escort of atomic AB.

Quote: Alex777

Here's an example of a cruiser. Compare with 22350.

Well, if we had such in RYAV ... the entire Pacific Ocean would be ours.
But I compared it with the ships of the RYAV era, when the contours were still far from perfect, and similar power plants were the pinnacle of engine building.
And if the "Bogatyr" with the same VI and "as much" 20 l / s accelerated to 000 knots. , then 24,35M at 22350% of the power of its sustainer turbines is quite capable of giving 60 cruising knots ... And at an economical speed it can generally go on one sustainer (as it was on 20).

Quote: Alex777

Yeah. So far I have not met anyone who would consider this scheme worthy of imitation. Consumption again ...

The Americans envied her, but found it too complicated for themselves (like coaxial propellers for helicopters and airplanes). In general, they try to simplify and unify everything - after all, they have very large series, so you need to build quickly, in the same type, and to make it easier to train personnel - because there is a lot of it.
Remember the single-shaft "Oliver H.P." - all for the sake of simplification, reduction in cost and unification.
And that’s worth learning.

Quote: Alex777

This explains a lot.

And that changed a lot, preventing very bad scenarios.

Quote: Alex777

there is an opinion that everything will be like the GDP said: if the Banderas go on the attack, we will question the statehood of Ukraine.

Yesterday there were battles - breakthroughs of several sabotage groups.
And the weather is just right for the start of the campaign.

[Alex777]

Yes, they are generally very rational in unification, and this is not a sin for us to learn. In addition, indeed, this gave a high cruising speed, which is important for an escort of atomic AB.

They generally try to simplify and unify everything.

With their army stretched over a globe, it cannot be otherwise.
But now even rationalism does not save them.
There are more bureaucrats than engineers.
I am pleased to watch AB J. Ford.
States are destroying their foundations with their own hands.
I found these memoirs interesting:
https://coollib.com/b/413874-ben-rich-skunk-works-lichnyie-memuaryi-moey-rabotyi-v-lokhid/read
What I said above is at the end of the article.

Yesterday there were battles - breakthroughs of several sabotage groups.

It seems to me that half of the personnel of these DRGs are not our color?

[antivirus]

so we approached the great civilization - the Soviet - how could those eccentrics build such a fleet? - only Kravchuk and Kuchma are capable of such a thing! without the outskirts, we are a semi-empire and it is difficult to build an underflot.
When Julia worked in Dnepropetrovsk (allegedly there is no connection) - the fleet in Nikolaev and others was under construction - urgently she was sent to the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian government.

[NDR-791]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

At the beginning of 2020, Nakhimov has mastered 80 lard since the beginning of modernization, and this is not the final figure.

For that kind of money, he should dominate in space orbits

[Alex777]

For that kind of money, he should dominate in space orbits

Are you talking about a heavy nuclear missile cruiser?
And for what money, in your opinion, did it have to be completely redone?
Do you even know how much 10 UKSK cost?
And there, besides the UKSK, there are a lot of interesting things.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

At the beginning of 2020, Nakhimov has mastered 80 lard since the beginning of modernization, and this is not the final figure. Plus the cost of energy consumption from the plant, plus water, garbage and other "little things in life" will definitely fit a hundred.

This is the amount !!! Tin !!!

[Basarev]

Wasn't it easier and cheaper to build a new cruiser from scratch?

[mvg]

was to build a new cruiser from scratch?

Will we master it? What have we built from scratch over the past 35 years? 1171 and 2230 to 4500 tons with a displacement? And the little things. 11356, 22380 and everyone's favorite RTOs of 900 tons each.

[Basarev]

In this case, it is generally better not to meddle in cruisers. The fleet should be those ships that can be mass-produced. Single wunderwafers will not decide the outcome of the war, they will only become a waste of money. I still remember the example of Bismarck and Yamato.

[Alex777]

One small remark: when they began to do Nakhimov, no one was going to cancel the INF Treaty yet.
And you can place as much as 80 CR on it.
Now they say that the question of Peter's modernization is suspended.
One more small note: who will provide air defense for the connection of ships without a cruiser?

[Basarev]

Until the economy is pulled out of the abyss, you will have to be content with coastal aviation and RTOs. A cruiser is an extremely expensive pleasure, only for very rich countries, and even then not everything is taken. Here Germany does not build a cruiser, even for her it is expensive, where should we go there, with our impoverished economy?

[Alex777]

I don’t understand your derogatory tone.
Our economy is normal.
I would look at Germany under sanctions.
Yes, and under the coronavirus, she does not look brilliant.
I could not invent any vaccine.
He will take ours. Even without pleasure.
Otherwise, the American agents "green" will come to power there and the Germans will have a complete BLM.
What is so on the SP-2 Germany rests against? Not giving up?
Simply because without him the kirdyk will come to her.
The states will connect to their nipple and will pull all the juices.
All my acquaintances, Russian-speaking Germans and Austrians, are praying for VVP. He is the best in the world for them.

[Basarev]

In a sense, the NATO approach is close to me. The military budget should be 2% of GDP, not a dime more. And within these 2% not to refuse anything, to supply the army with the best. But this requires a truly powerful economy, and not like ours, when one Apple, in principle, can buy the whole of Russia.

[Alex777]

Arseny was ate!
How old are you?
How many tanks does this Germany have?
How long are the borders?
Trump pushed NATO by 2%.
Germany has never spent them and does not spend them.

[rjpthju]

Simpler and cheaper, but a year longer.

[Alex777]

This is the amount !!! Tin !!!

A little more than 1 lard of greens.
Heavy nuclear missile cruiser.
To which the current industry does not mass-produce anything.
And we can only guess about the armament and equipment of which.
I read the list of state purchases for modernization. But I suspect that not everything is indicated there.

[Captain45]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Kommunalka is not directly related to the fleet

Well, how is it not connected? We paid for utility bills, utilities made a profit, they paid tax from the profit, so from ours, say, 100 rubles, 10-15 kopecks went to the "defense industry" In general, as in the movie "It can't be!" : "Brother, and money? -What kind of money? Oh, money ... Then .... I'll give ... half ... maybe ...."

[Grits]

Quote: Tiksi-3

communal apartment until the 10th, then penalties, fines

And also the terms of monthly payments on loans are very well tracked.

[sub307]

We recall Zhvanetsky: "Repair is not an action, it is a state, it cannot be finished, it can be stopped."

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Sahalinets

What do we generally rent on time?

Rise in prices for housing and communal services and rise in prices.

[sustav75]

The multi-storey mansions of the top managers of these enterprises and the generals overseeing these "modernizations" are being leased on time

[Sergej1972]

Air defense systems are delivered on time.

[mvg]

Air defense systems are delivered on time

Come on, then study the question of why the head 22350 was built for 10 years and handed over for a couple of years ... why the underfregates 11356 went to the fleet ... what nonsense.

[Sergej1972]

I mean air defense systems as part of the Aerospace Forces, what was previously called the country's air defense, as well as military air defense as part of the Ground Forces. The question was not about the Navy, but about whether there is something in the Russian Federation that surrenders on time.

[mvg]

Again, Cubes, Buki, Arrows, Armors or their older brothers S-300/350/400/500 with all letters and modifications were in the making. From such a significant one, I can recall the Tu-22M3 of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and the Su-25 at the same time in 2008.
As a result, the air defense did not show anything.

[Alex777]

Morpheus? Pantsir-CM?

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Sahalinets

It would be surprising if they hadn't. What do we generally rent on time?

this is unfortunately - yes ...
I wonder how the issues with the speed of creating gearboxes for the power plant for fr. 22350?!.
Is it possible to assemble up to 3 such power plants per year ?! This could allow, in addition to North. Shipyards, in parallel to lay the frigates of this project and on "Yantar" or "Zaliva" .... (as at one time SRK-ry 1135, three shipyards were simultaneously producing at once) ...?!

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

to what extent are the issues with the speed of creating gearboxes for the power plant for fr. 22350?!.

The DGTA M55R unit for the 924th order "Admiral Isakov" is ready. Soon in Rybinsk, the assembled M55P units will be run in and if everything goes well, then after the "marathon", it will be possible to prepare for shipment. But then everything will depend on the readiness of the ground for loading units to order 924, will it be ready for this? They are still busy with the M55R on the 923rd order of the Admiral Golovko. The date for the delivery of the ship has moved to the end of 2022.

[Thrifty]

"At best," and ideally, will it go into operation by 2030? Or, after modernization, for cancellation? ?? Also an option for the development of money.

[Flooding]

Quote: Thrifty

Or, after modernization, for cancellation? ?? Also an option for the development of money.

Croak, croak, croak,
shout like a crow, like a crow ...
The nightingale did not croak like a crow.
The raven has one edge of its own.
A crow jumped up. What did you say? ...
The raven also croaked, he croaked to his heart's content. He cursed everyone ...
Karkala vol. karkun m. karkunya, karkusha w.
who croaks, grumbles, curses or || portends unkind ...

Explanatory Dictionary of the Living Great Russian Language by Vladimir Dahl

[lucul]

"At best," and ideally, will it go into operation by 2030?

Well, ALL electronics are under sanctions, after all.

[Bshkaus]

Well, ALL electronics are under sanctions, after all.

Well, they themselves asked for sanctions, there was nothing to succumb to on the right location, and secondly, someone screamed with foam at the mouth that sanctions were useful and gave a grudge that they would make import substitution in a year. So we can only blame ourselves

[lucul]

Well, they themselves asked for sanctions

What are you? And you had to crawl on the luggage, wrapped in a sheet?

[Bshkaus]

What are you? And you had to crawl on the luggage, wrapped in a sheet?

Yes, you all have one answer: the enemy is on the doorstep, NATA soldiers urinate in elevators and write bad things on the fence. The damned west is to blame for everything, if only not to turn away

[lucul]

Yes, you have one answer for everything: the enemy is on the doorstep,

Did the communists have a different answer? ))))

[paul3390]

But the communists somehow managed to build one of the two superpowers on the planet. In contrast to the current empty balabolism and total cutting of everything that is badly nailed down .. Even the cruiser in question - has it been built by highly efficient owners?

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

Well, that is, Krivoruchko balabol? I just reported that everything was on schedule, and three months later, suddenly a year to the right.

[venik]

Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay

Well, that is, Krivoruchko balabol? I just reported that everything was on schedule, and three months later, suddenly a year to the right.

========
Imagine yourself as a foreman at a construction site: everything is going well, the house is being built strictly according to the schedule, you reported to the management that if everything goes well, you will meet the deadline .... And then bam! The precast concrete plant stopped (there was an accident or bankruptcy). And no one else can make the necessary reinforced concrete ... What does this mean? Correct: "shift to the right". AND WHO are you after that: balabol??
A cruiser is not a home! there suppliers are in the hundreds, and there is simply NOT WHOM to replace many!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: venik

Imagine yourself as a foreman at a construction site: everything is going well, the house is being built strictly according to the schedule, you reported to the management that if everything goes well, you will meet the deadline .... And then bam!

Imagine that you decided to go out for small need, and there - a sickle!
What, however, a die-hard livestock. As soon as they are asked about the case, as soon as they are interested in a shift in terms, as soon as they try to find out the reasons for the lag, - oh
not all kagal pounce on the questioner and whip him in the face with antipatriotic nicknames and "guaranteed correct" arguments.
Yes, I was sick of it all! BAD !!! (very tired, disgusted, disgusted. Comes from the word BRYD - bitter, sharp.)
What has been built in the country during Putin's rule (taking into account plans and projects):
1. IN TIME.
2. WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE ESTIMATE.
3. WITHOUT INAPPROPRIATE USE OF FUNDS.
4. WITHOUT INCREASING STANDARDS, PRICES AND TRANSFERS.
5. WITHOUT CRIMINAL CASES FOR THEFT.
??
No matter what they take, no matter what they touch, what business or event is not approached with "that microscope in which you cannot see a replacement for Putin" - either a rake, or embezzlement in "oh, what size", or incompetence, or sanctions, or some other crap. BUT!!! When it comes to pinning people down, adding a "load on their shoulders", replacing what is feasible with a posthumous one, increasing the maintenance of one's loved ones at the expense of the budget - everything is done by whistle.
Your example is bullshit! I ordered doors. A team of two arrived and for the promised two did all the work. And what they did not lay down, did not take into account, they did not do it (they did not do too much).

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: venik

Does he mean himself?

What is my stubbornness? Is it that (CONSTANTLY !!!) I get the wrong answers or “cleverly forged remarks” to my correct questions? Stubbornness (the desire to achieve something, but with the belief that just like that, without effort, we will not get anything - we must demand) is present, but stubbornness (a tendency to manifest stupidity in conjunction with stubbornness, stubbornness, stupidity and unreasoning ) - your specific bread!

[venik]

Quote: ROSS 42

What, however, a die-hard livestock.

=======
You mean yourself?
-----------

Quote: ROSS 42

What has been built in the country during Putin's rule (taking into account plans and projects):
1. IN TIME.
2. WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE ESTIMATE.
3. WITHOUT INAPPROPRIATE USE OF FUNDS.
4. WITHOUT INCREASING STANDARDS, PRICES AND TRANSFERS.
5. WITHOUT CRIMINAL CASES FOR THEFT.
??

---------

Quote: ROSS 42

I ordered doors. A team of two arrived and, for the promised two, did all the work.

=========
The answer is obvious: YOUR DOORS!

[clerk]

... I ordered doors. A team of two arrived and, for the promised two, did all the work. And what they did not lay down, did not take into account, they did not do it (they did not do too much).

Did these two days include only installation, or also manufacturing / delivery from a supplier from another region? Or were the doors you ordered already in stock?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: clerk

These two days included only the installation

Inquiries in the store "Doors Good", Leningradsky prospect, Leninsky district, Kemerovo, 650060.
Телефон: +7‒923‒100‒52‒53.

[clerk]

... Did these two days include only installation, or also manufacturing / delivery from a supplier from another region? Or were the doors you ordered already in stock?
///// Information in the store "Good Doors", Leningradsky Prospect, Leninsky District, Kemerovo, 650060.
Телефон: +7‒923‒100‒52‒53.

Since you did not answer the question, we can conclude that the timing of the door production was disrupted for you. Means your argument

... I ordered doors. A team of two arrived and, for the promised two, did all the work.

as opposed to the repair of "Nakhimov" - incorrect. Deadlines are thwarted in both the complex and the simple. And it's not about the power here.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: ROSS 42

What has been built in the country during Putin's rule (taking into account plans and projects):

The stump is clear, Putin needs to be removed! It is necessary to remove Putin to the Americans, Svido ukryak, Poles, Balts. , Canada. australia and a stinking bunch our patriots!

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: 30 vis

Quote: ROSS 42

What has been built in the country during Putin's rule (taking into account plans and projects):

The stump is clear, Putin needs to be removed! It is necessary to remove Putin to the Americans, Svido ukryak, Poles, Balts. , Canada. australia and a stinking bunch our patriots!

I forgot to add Israel, and specifically our former fellow citizens, current citizens of the Jewish state .. They especially hate everything connected with Russia!

[Xnumx vis]

Well, here's a citizen of Israel with his minus drew ... He would have saddled in his Ashdod. ate dates. fatty tummy scratched .., but no! Draws to splash rancid poison on the former homeland - Russia ...

[Bshkaus]

A cruiser is not a home! there suppliers - there are hundreds and many are simply not replaced with WHOM

And this is called the level of industrial development in the country. If the country's industry is not able to organize production, then first you need to build factories, and only then nuclear missiles at these factories, and not vice versa.

[grindz]

Do you have examples of countries that have done so?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: grindz

Do you have examples of countries that have done so?

If about nuclear missiles, then let's look at history.
USSR - socialism.
China is socialism.
North Korea is socialism.
France is capitalism.
Britain is capitalism.
India - capitalism with gypsy dances.
Pakistan - Arab capitalism.
South Africa is capitalism.
Israel is capitalism.

[paul3390]

there suppliers are in the hundreds, and there is simply NOT WHOM to replace many!

And who is to blame for the fact that there is no one to replace? And that they are disrupting defense orders? Why were these issues resolved quite successfully under the Soviet Union, but not under Putin's current highly effective managers with billions of dollars in income?

[Tiksi-3]

The deadlines for the transfer of the upgraded nuclear cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" to the fleet have been postponed
It's not even funny anymore, as if the country

s managers

and promises - where are the real things ?? ay power ??

[Malyuta]

Quote: Tiksi-3

and promises - where are the real things ?? ay power ??

I am very sorry, but she is deaf.

[Bshkaus]

where are the real cases ??

Yes, they have been gone for a long time, we have even perverted the concept of patriotism: there is a serious problem, but it's worth mentioning it - you immediately become a whiner, a representative of the State Department, and so on. Only ships from this do not build faster

[egor1712]

The main thing is that they didn't cut it.

[Aag]

Quote: egor1712

The main thing is that they didn't cut it.

To "cut"?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: egor1712

The main thing is that they didn't cut it.

It's like a terminally ill person in a coma.
You can disable and "kill".
And you can maintain "in a coma" for 20-30-40 years.
Over the years, paying salaries to staff is a colossal amount.
For equipment, repairs and maintenance, electricity.
Write a dissertation.
And all this will be at someone's expense.
And the bill will be huge, and most importantly, all these 20-30-40 years - the right people will be fed and satisfied.
But in relation to people, the rule of humanism works.
And what about iron?
Is such humanism necessary?
What is written about 80 billion rubles is just the point costs for the work performed at Sevmash.
What goes through the equipment suppliers comes from separate government contracts. This is our practice.
Sevmash does not pay the turbine manufacturer. And the state under a separate contract that has nothing to do with "Sevmash", except that the recipient's site on the territory of Sevmash and commissioning work on this territory.
It is not Sevmash that pays the manufacturer KRET. And the state under a separate contract that has nothing to do with Sevmash, with the same recipient ..

And therefore, the real figures for the commissioning of this ship will be approximately 150-200 billion rubles.
How many frigates could be built that really need air?
8-10 pieces.

[Bashkirkhan]

Duc equipment has not been produced for a long time for 1144, repair work is almost restoration. Some had to be re-produced from scratch, drawings had to be gnawed from private owners. The ship is unique and the price tag for modernization is also unique, the timing is also unique, nothing can be done about it.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Duc equipment has not been produced for a long time for 1144, repair work is almost restoration. Some had to be re-produced from scratch, drawings had to be gnawed from private owners. The ship is unique and the price tag for modernization is also unique, the timing is also unique, nothing can be done about it.

Buy yourself a prehistoric Moskvich-412 and try to make a modern, safe, fast, reliable car out of it ...
Equip it with all safety systems, modify the old engine to Euro-6 standards, bring passive safety to 5 stars in Nkap ...

And you will see. that you will actually spend 10-15 million rubles and still get a semi-finished product at the exit ...
And for these 15 million rubles, you can buy 10-15 excellent, reliable and safe modern cars.
Will such an example suit you?

What for such uniqueness?
If the whole world follows a system of unification and large-scale production?
And it is this system that is accepted throughout the world as the only correct one.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: SovAr238A

And for these 15 million rubles, you can buy 10-15 excellent, reliable and safe modern cars.

They won't sell. Sanctions. The production of gas turbines and gearboxes is small-scale. Therefore, you either repair your grandfather's seagull, or walk.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Quote: SovAr238A

And for these 15 million rubles, you can buy 10-15 excellent, reliable and safe modern cars.

They won't sell. Sanctions. The production of gas turbines and gearboxes is small-scale. Therefore, you either repair your grandfather's seagull, or walk.

Well, yes, all our newest frigates are not being built due to sanctions ...

Why did it happen?
In America, the same single turbine called LM2500 - as a marine engine - was produced in an amount of 4000 pieces. And it is installed on almost all types of warships.
Somewhere one turbine. where - two, and where four pieces in a carcass ...

Reducer also.
Unified.
Generators as well.

For our fleet of the present and the near future for 15 years ahead, we need about 2-3 hundred such turbines.
And this is not a piece at all.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: SovAr238A

Well, yes, all our newest frigates are not being built due to sanctions ...

Imagine yes. Turbines on all Russian frigates in service are Ukrainian. Due to the sanctions, the frigate hulls were stuck in the shipyards.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Quote: SovAr238A

Well, yes, all our newest frigates are not being built due to sanctions ...

Imagine yes. Turbines on all Russian frigates in service are Ukrainian. Due to the sanctions, the frigate hulls were stuck in the shipyards.

Who is to blame?

And I thought, due to the fact that Polyment-Redoubt had been sawed for almost 10 years ...

And more.
Stop taking phrases out of context ...
And how is the unification of turbine production to blame for the fact that large-scale production has never been done in the Russian Federation?
Maybe just for other reasons?

[Flashpoint]

Well, here ... I was waiting for this event. Not suppliers, but some kind of substitutes.
...
"We have checked the progress of the repair work. As planned, the ship is expected to be received at the end of 2022. These terms are not in doubt," said Krivoruchko

 Show / Hide text

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=544285&lang=RU

"We have checked the progress of the repair work. As planned, the ship is expected to be received at the end of 2022. These terms are not in doubt," Krivoruchko said during the check on the fulfillment of the state defense order at the Sevmash enterprise.

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Flashpoint

These deadlines are not in doubt

He said everything correctly.
They were not questioned, but transferred, and these are two big differences.

[tlauicol]

The feeder should not be empty. The main process, not the result

[Ros 56]

And the suppliers were given a "premium", not the enterprise, but the management? And if private owners, then nationalize, science will be different, enough to play with toys.

[sergo1914]

Suppliers are not cleaning the North from snow yet?

[novel66]

there is no Stalin on them ...

[novel66]

in like .. and then an aircraft carrier. aircraft carrier...

[Vladimir1155]

a typical example of a ship that is too large, seemingly useful, but unique and cumbersome, therefore problems and huge disproportionate costs, 1155 during this time was already the second one went for modernization, because the series, unification of a number of equipment with frigates of other types, small size, and the possibility the choice of the shipyard, ... 1144 what else, compared to the unnecessary and huge Kuzey, these are flowers ...

[Flooding]

Quote: vladimir1155

1155 during this time already the second went for modernization

what time is it?
the contract for the repair and modernization of "Nakhimov" was signed seven years ago.
The modernization of Shaposhnikov began in 2016.

[Vladimir1155]

As a reminder, the Project 1155 Marshal Shaposhnikov large anti-submarine ship was sent back to Dalzavod for repair and modernization back in 2015. In the future, it is planned that the rest of the BODs of Project 1155 will undergo similar modernization. The modernized frigate of the Pacific Fleet Marshal Shaposhnikov (formerly a large anti-submarine ship of Project 1155) continues testing new weapons in the Sea of ​​Japan. As reported on Monday, December 28, in the press service of the Russian Defense Ministry, the frigate successfully launched an anti-ship cruise missile of the Uran complex against a towed sea shield.

[Flooding]

By and large, comparable.
But the difference between the start dates is about 2 years.

[Vladimir1155]

in terms of costs, it is incomparable, the beginning is 2 years later, the end is three later, it turns out the time is twice as long, we occupy a unique shipyard interferes with the construction of the nuclear submarine, and the money ... this is generally a tragedy ... the amounts for it are astronomical, compared to 1155. .a role? will replace the same 1155 for near-field PLO with slightly greater self-defense capabilities

[Flooding]

you are an interesting conversationalist, namesake
first write that during this time they began to modernize the second bpk
I, so as not to argue a lot, although the difference at the beginning of work is decent, I agree with you
let it be comparable
but now you convince me otherwise

[Vladimir1155]

09:38 04.08.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX "Admiral Levchenko" is awaiting decisions on repairs and modernization.
The large anti-submarine ship (BOD) "Admiral Levchenko" project 1155 of the Northern Fleet will undergo modernization, TASS reports, citing a source in the shipbuilding industry. It is expected that these works will be carried out following the example of the ship of the same project - Marshal Shaposhnikov (Pacific Fleet). The Ministry of Defense has agreed on a list of works on the repair of the large anti-submarine ship (BOD) Admiral Levchenko of project 1155. It is planned that it will go to sea in 2021. The modernization will make it possible to extend the service life of one of the largest and most active warships of the Northern Fleet for a long time. Onboard electronics and equipment, as well as cruise engines will be replaced at the Admiral Levchenko. Experts believe that restoring the combat readiness of the BOD will increase the capabilities of the Navy in the fight against submarines. The last time the BOD went to sea was in 2018. The large anti-submarine ship of the project 1155 "Admiral Vinogradov" of the Pacific Fleet will be upgraded to the level of a frigate by 2025, following the example of the same type BOD "Marshal Shaposhnikov". This was announced to TASS on Tuesday, March 30, by a source in the military-industrial complex, specifying that to increase the strike capabilities, the ship will be armed with Kalibr-NK cruise missiles.

[Flooding]

you don't seem to understand what this is about
only the lazy does not know about the modernization of the second bpk 1155
I wrote to you about the timing, about the difference in two years

Quote: vladimir1155

1155 during this time already the second went for modernization

that this phrase of yours is a little untrue
because "this time" began two years earlier than the works on the modernization of "Shaposhnikov"

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Flood

because "this time" began two years earlier than the works on the modernization of "Shaposhnikov"

maybe I don't understand something, for five years I learned two years before the start of the modernization of Shaposhnikov, which has already been completed and the process of the second ship has begun and the decision on the third one, while the repair of Nakhimov that began two years before the start of the repair will end no earlier than three more years, uh, then evidence of a much greater complexity and cost of repairing one cruiser than repairing several ASW frigates BOD

[Alex777]

a typical example of a ship that is too large, seemingly useful, but unique and cumbersome, therefore problems and huge disproportionate costs, 1155 during this time was already the second one went for modernization, because the series, unification of a number of equipment with frigates of other types, small size, and the possibility the choice of the shipyard, ... 1144 what else, compared to the unnecessary and huge Kuzey, these are flowers ...

Comprehensive confirmation that you have nothing to do with the fleet and big projects.

[knn54]

According to eyewitnesses., After the sinking of the squadron on the roadstead of Sevastopol, the famous admiral suffered a breakdown. He swore not to board the ship (he was killed by a bullet from a French shooter) and asked not to name the ships by his name.
1. The cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" was killed during the Russo-Japanese War in 1905 in the Battle of Tsushima.
2. The second cruiser was renamed "Chervona Ukraine". He died under bombs in Sevastopol.
3.Light cruiser. Was decommissioned (for some unknown reason) in the 50s and fired from missiles as a floating target.
4. Passenger liner, Sank in 1986 after collision with dry cargo ship.
5. BPC Fell into disrepair ahead of schedule in the early 90s.
Was written off for scrap, but did not reach the place of cutting, ran aground and was destroyed by a storm.
And "Orlan" would like to wish a good fortune.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: knn54

And "Orlan" would like to wish a good fortune.

Yeah, good.
It has been under repair for longer than it has been in service.

[Vladimir1155]

a tale about the unhappiness of all ships with this name is known ... unfortunately, the owl, the belt Nakhimov may die, the postponement of its repair increases the likelihood of Petya being written off, formally he will be many years old and can go where Lazarev is, because repairing Nakhimov is astronomically expensive, 164 will turn into ASW frigates because the Volcano will not last forever, 956 will not be, Kuzya will not be either, the total in the Navy is only one attack surface ship and only one surface ship of the first rank .. it is clear that this will be the number one target, and if Timokhin listens to the art missile duels, the ion will move away from the umbrella of coastal aviation, then he will inevitably die in an unequal battle

[grindz]

So this was "Kalinin" until the beginning of the 90s.

[lopvlad]

the transfer of the cruiser to the Navy is shifting to the right and will occur in 2023, and not in 2022, as previously stated. The reason is problems with suppliers.

if the suppliers who disrupted the supply of components and materials are privately owned, then the question of the nationalization of these enterprises should be raised.

[Narak-zempo]

Such an intriguing title.
While I was opening it, I thought which way they had moved.
Turned out to the right

[Sergey Obraztsov]

In such a cruiser there are 100 little things that need to be replaced. And then there are problems with suppliers of 000-50 of them. That's all it gets up. No wonder. That's life.

[Jacket in stock]

Somehow it’s not funny at all.
Suppliers let you down ?!
This is the year of renovation!
Who drew up the charts and how?
Or import components were initially put in, which could not be substituted for import and could not be bought with contraband?
Then everything is much worse with us than the "all the scammers" tell us.

[ermak124.0]

Is anyone surprised?

[123456789]

In September 2019, the cruiser was half ready.

A brigade of Jews won a tender to paint a steamer.

They come to the Odessa Shipping Company, sign a contract, they are paid an advance and they leave. They come to show their work in a week. Well, everything seems to be done as it should - the steamer is all white, beautiful, in general, as good as new ... They signed the Certificate of Completion, paid them the remaining amount, after which the Jews left safely. After some time, the steamer departs, turns on its other side, and there - the whole side is rusty, black and without a single white spot.

The customer was shocked, the technical supervision was in a panic, they found the Jewish foreman, brought him to the ship and told him:

- So, what are you doing, why half of the work is not done ?!

- What are you talking about? Everything is under the contract!

- Began to read the contract!

- Well, here it is written: "The Brigade of Jews", on the one hand, and the Odessa Shipping Company, on the other hand, agreed to paint the ship ...

or the donkey dies, or the padishah dies!

[ccsr]

The ship has been under repair at Sevmash since the 1999 year, modernization work began only in the 2013 year.
The project 1144 Orlan cruiser Admiral Nakhimov was laid down on May 17, 1983 under the name Kalinin.

I would like to know the opinion of non-naval ones, because they often have a blinkered view of such things - did it make sense to modernize in 2013, if even then it was clear that a thirty-year-old ship is easier to write off and build a new one than to stretch this burden for another ten years.
There is no such blatant incompetence in spending people's money in any kind of armed forces, and the naval gets away with it all, to the cheerful shouts of various Timokhins and other swindlers that we desperately need an ocean surface fleet, otherwise we will lose the war to America.
I am more and more convinced that a new wave of military operations on the issue of the fleet was specially initiated by those who want to force us to get involved in another arms race, which we will definitely lose to the Americans, but even worse, we can also lose Russia.

[Anzhey V.]

In fact, the new incarnation of the Nakhimov is a large launch platform for cruise missiles.

It has long lost its original purpose in the form of combating AUG by using supersonic anti-ship missiles with a special warhead - there is no such complex system for which it was created.

There was no radical renewal of the capabilities of its air defense, given the lack of naval aviation in Russia, its combat value in the conditions of the dominance of enemy aviation ... well, so to speak, is doubtful.

There is no escort for the formation of a full-fledged IBM.

As a result, the country gets a huge missile gunboat in the hull of a heavy cruiser. Can he display a flag? Yes. Do you need it? The question is open.

With the money spent, it was possible to build an OTRK park and supply them with specials. BC - I think there would be much more sense for the country. Of course, this is a primitive example, but the General Staff could definitely come up with a good use of these means, which could really strengthen the country's defense at the strategic level.

[exo]

"it never happened and now again" (c)

[musorg]

And not the last time, however. They would be silent too.

[Castro Ruiz]

Raboti idut po grafiku a peredacha postoyano dvigaetsa vpravo. Contradiccio in adjecto. :)

[Alexey-74]

It is necessary to report less, but to do more business and declare in fact.

[yfast]

Quote: mvg

was to build a new cruiser from scratch?

Will we master it? What have we built from scratch over the past 35 years? 1171 and 2230 to 4500 tons with a displacement? And the little things. 11356, 22380 and everyone's favorite RTOs of 900 tons each.

It's like sex, you need to start and do it regularly. It is difficult and expensive to master the first new cruiser. the Americans, as they began to build new aircraft carriers, do not stop. And they do not lose personnel and do not shake up the old.

[Irbiz123]

How Stalin is missing!

[Metallurg_2]

Maybe you should check the suppliers? And those who chose them.
Under Stalin, this could not have happened by definition.

[Revival]

2022, 2023, 2024 ..... 3148 ...

[Soldatov V.]

In general, I wanted to reassure the naval community - who these suppliers are and what investigative actions were taken against them. Everything is there - the prosecutor's office, the industrial department of the FSB, financial supervision, money in banks, but no sense. Maybe there is another Taburetkin and an academic artist drawing profit schemes.

[kriten]

Anyone who breaks the deadlines for a defense order, even if they are suppliers, should be punished, up to nationalization. Many people go into defense orders only to steal ... and then find a reason - why it didn’t work out.