The place of service of the first carrier of "Poseidons"

Carrier of nuclear drones "Poseidon" - nuclear submarine of special purpose K-329 "Belgorod" - will be part of the Pacific fleet. Reports about it TASS citing a source close to the Russian Ministry of Defense.

According to the source, after the end of state tests and the transfer of the submarine to the fleet, "Belgorod" will go to the Pacific Fleet and will serve in the Pacific Ocean. At the same time, he stressed that the Poseidon carrier will be able to solve problems anywhere in the world ocean.

According to preliminary information, the nuclear submarine "Belgorod" after the transfer to the customer will serve in the Pacific Ocean, while it will be able to solve its problems anywhere in the World Ocean

- leads news source word agency.

On the eve of another source in the defense industry complex said that tests of the nuclear submarine "Belgorod" will be completed by September this year, the submarine is currently undergoing the stage of mooring tests, the reactor has been launched on it. State tests are due to begin in May this year. There is still no information on the timing of the transfer of the submarine to the Russian fleet.

The multipurpose nuclear submarine Belgorod, launched on April 23, 2019, will be an experimental carrier of the Poseidon drones. The nuclear submarine "Khabarovsk" of project 09851 will be the standard carrier.

Earlier it was reported that it is planned to build four Poseidon carriers - two each for the Northern and Pacific fleets. Three of them will be built within the framework of the current state armaments program until 2027, and one more will most likely be built within the framework of the new program.

Comments

[Labrador]

Let's say nothing surprising. Not in the Baltic!

[Victor_B]

it is planned to build four Poseidon carriers - two each for the Northern and Pacific fleets.

Or one of two things!

[Jacket in stock]

And I still did not understand the purpose and objectives of these "Poseidons".
Okay, the carrier boat of smaller devices, even inhabited, even uninhabited. It's like intelligence, sabotage and so on, so on, so on.
And why do we need a huge slow-moving torpedo? Why is it better, for example, a dozen ballistic missiles or hundreds of cruise missiles?

[NDR-791]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And I still did not understand the purpose and objectives of these "Poseidons".

Ideally, something like this ...

[ironic]

It's like that in a dream ...

[tikhonov66]

Vaascheto - originally it was "Stalin's Strait".
- So, Comrade Kurchatov, you propose to create a Stalin Strait?
That's right, Joseph Vissarionovich is the strait between Canada and Mexico ...

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And why do we need a huge slow-moving torpedo? Why is it better, for example, a dozen ballistic missiles or hundreds of cruise missiles?

And this is how you look. Maybe a huge, fast, nuclear bottom mine?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: ROSS_51

Quote: Jacket in stock

And why do we need a huge slow-moving torpedo? Why is it better, for example, a dozen ballistic missiles or hundreds of cruise missiles?

And this is how you look. Maybe a huge, fast, nuclear bottom mine?

With near-zero efficiency.

Rather, with an efficiency equal to one warhead approximately 450 kilotons.

For there will be no super destructive tsunami. neither 500 meters, nor even 30 meters.
Leaving thousands of kilometers and washing away the entire infrastructure.

this will not be.
You just need to know how a nuclear explosion occurs in an aquatic environment. What energies are extinguished by water. At what distance the wave touches.

And the most important thing is to understand that the energy of any earthquake with a tsunami at least 10 meters is 2-3 orders of magnitude higher than 50 megatons - there are tens of exajoules of energy, and not tens of petajoules (like 50 MT).
The largest tsunami in the Indian Ocean with 12 Exajoules of energy. And the wave heights were only 3-4 meters.
And the topography of the seabed in the Atlantic and the Pacific coast does not greatly contribute to the formation of a tsunami.
Does anyone remember hearing the news about the tsunami in the continental US over the past 100 years? Not Alaska, not Canada - namely the United States?

So that's all the talk. about the super-mega-tsunami - the essence of complete nonsense ...
But so laconic urya-patriots - and what? Thinking is not necessary! You don't need to go to school. Know, repeat the training manuals.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: SovAr238A

So that's all the talk. about the super-mega-tsunami - the essence of complete nonsense ...
But so laconic urya-patriots - and what? Thinking is not necessary! You don't need to go to school. Know, repeat the training manuals.

And if you do not think so narrowly? Why would you wash off America? You yourself are in captivity of this delirium. It is enough to erase the naval base or AUG at the crossing, block the strait, etc.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: ROSS_51

Quote: SovAr238A

So that's all the talk. about the super-mega-tsunami - the essence of complete nonsense ...
But so laconic urya-patriots - and what? Thinking is not necessary! You don't need to go to school. Know, repeat the training manuals.

And if you do not think so narrowly? Why would you wash off America? You yourself are in captivity of this delirium. It is enough to erase the naval base or AUG at the crossing, block the strait, etc.

In order to erase all naval bases and large ports on the territory of the Atlantic coast - you need only 2 Bulava SLBMs ... Only two.
The same is for the Pacific coast.
There are also only 2 Maces.
Well, if you make exactly the first strike using a flat trajectory from a pistol range, then 4 missiles on each coast.
Which is incomparably much more profitable both economically and in the guarantee of defeat ...

Poseidon does not know how to "AUG at the crossing". He can't do it in any way.
He does not have an active guidance system and will not. It only has an inertial guidance system ..
And its design and operation scheme is such that it will not work according to the "AUG at the crossing" ...

"Block the strait" is something new ... What strait are you going to block? I'm just curious...
What will happen? Will all the water boil away and the strait will become shallow?

[ironic]

The fact of the matter is that this and mobile Yars can do and you wrote everything else correctly, but where is the hurray to shout? This is all commonplace and uninteresting, the Russian Federation and the United States and the USSR have this, and there was no one who has no equal, no "kizka mother" and you can't knock on the table with your shoe.

[ironic]

By the time the ICBMs are launched, military bases will already be half empty, and even more so by the time a single bursting torpedo arrives. Do you say a dozen AUG to nail down? This is with a couple of carriers, against which dozens of tactical opponents herding? And a pair of covers with the same tactics for each AUG, which torpedoes will equip with nuclear heads? And to them air P-8, with anti-boat, which will also be given, as before, nuclear heads? Well, very likely yes ... So who will be worse from the underwater race of nuclear weapons? Well this has already happened, it will not be difficult for the Americans to renew it, and they will do it.

[tikhonov66]

"... So who will be worse off from the underwater race of nuclear weapons ?.
..."
- the stump is clear - to the SUPOSTAT !!!
Almost all of their infrastructure and main cities, including the capital, are located ON THE OCEAN COAST !!!
- well, "white stone" - any underwater weapon - POFIG.
It cannot be delivered to the Moscow River ...
8-))

[ironic]

Those. it turns out even the stump is clearer than your conclusions. It turns out that you need nuclear weapons to nightmare cities with a population? Oh how. It is clear that by definition they could not have done anything operatively such single torpedo torpedoes with dirty bombs inside. Those. for real confrontation with weapons, in comparison with the well-known arsenals on the database, they are useless. This is what we are talking about.

[ironic]

It is not a bottom, it is forbidden to keep it at the bottom by the contract.

[tikhonov66]

"...
It is not a bottom, it is forbidden to keep it at the bottom by the contract.
..."

- there is absolutely no need to store it there!
The absence of a crew on board and the presence of a vigorous engine - allows this "torpedo" to FLY (well, for example in circles, or better along a closed pseudo-random route) at a great depth - literally FOR YEARS ...

- so we DO NOT VIOLATE any agreements here ...
8-))

- Although there is no "torpedo" at the bottom, but IN THE OCEAN DEPTH - it CONSTANTLY IS !!! ...
Hello completely insolent adversaries ...

[ironic]

Those. to carry out a combat launch of a loaded underwater dirty bomb? This is a guaranteed TMB. Those. nothing more stupid and suicidal can not be imagined.

[tikhonov66]

"... Why do we need a huge slow-moving torpedo?
..."
- elementary Watson !
8-))

Firstly, this "torpedo" moves towards the target autonomously and practically noiselessly and at a depth of many kilometers, where it is fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE to DETECT.
...
and secondly - this torpedo - it is not "against a separate ship" ... This "torpedo" - it is against enemy fleets and CITIES on the enemy coast.
- a tsunami wave several kilometers high - passes through the enemy's territory - a huge distance - sweeping away EVERYTHING in its path. And given that almost ALL the main cities of the "potential enemy" (including the capital) are located EXACTLY ON THE COAST OF THE OCEANS - the oceans that previously PROTECTED the "potential enemy" - in the appearance of this "torpedo" - turn into his NIGHT NIGHTMARE, capable of ANY (unpredictable) MOMENT and ANYWHERE ON THE COAST - "open up" and turn the life of a potential enemy - into sheer HELL ...

- something like that...
Teach materiel.

[ironic]

The materiel? You don't even know it at the popular scientific level. Learn at least something ... Yapatstal.

[xorek]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And why do we need a huge slow-moving torpedo? Why is it better, for example, a dozen ballistic missiles or hundreds of cruise missiles?

Well, imagine letting her out into the duty area and she lies there until a combat order arrives or slowly moves closer to the target .. And this can go on for quite a long time, this is her charm and the power of inevitable retaliation .. Sakharov also offered to strike with atomic torpedoes on the coast of the United States causing a tsunami of enormous power and one of the generals of the military-industrial complex called him a maniac It was later that, under the influence of his wife, he became a cunning dissident ..

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: xorek

Well, imagine letting her out into the area of ​​duty and she lies there until the order of the combat one or slowly moves closer to the target

Well, if you know for sure that tomorrow is war, then yes.
And if just in reserve, then oh.
To begin with, the issue of receiving an order still does not have an adequate solution.
And secondly, being in a sober mind and a firm memory to leave "a neighbor under the rug" a charged nuclear mine for 100 megatons unattended ???!
And who is the maniac here?

[xorek]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And secondly, being in a sober mind and a firm memory to leave "a neighbor under the rug" a charged nuclear mine for 100 megatons unattended ???!
And who is the maniac here?

Well, there is a program to return to base or self-destruct at a depth .. They will just take away EVERYTHING! This is the whole point of the development of "Poseidon", he obeys the commands
Why are you so worried? And the "partner-neighbor" is still bloodthirsty and cunning
It's the only way with them !!!!!

[antivirus]

about the maniacs - the naval base and the air force, how many partners around the Russian Federation have - they will be trampled in the dressing room because of the 16 poison torpedoes under their noses. this is apparently cheaper and better than cramming Cuba with rockets like the early 60s

[tikhonov66]

"... To begin with, the issue of receiving an order still does not have an adequate solution.
..."

- this is FOR YOU (due to your deep physical illiteracy) - this "question" does not have an "adequate solution". And on the Russian "sub-surface" - this "question" - "adequately-resolved" a long time ago !!!
- Years, commercials - already like 50 ...
8-)

- Let it be known to you that an electromagnetic wave penetrates into ANY electrically conductive medium (for example, into sea water, or into the steel hull of a ship 8-) - to a depth of ONE FOURTH of this wavelength.
So, if the length of the electromagnetic wave is - well, for example, 200 meters - then theoretically it is quite possible to accept it - even at a depth of 50 meters. But "200 meters" is by no means an EXTREMELY LONG electromagnetic wavelength. How, for example, about an electromagnetic wave - a FEW KILOMETERS long ?!
8-))

Yes, to receive such a wave, a very long antenna is also needed - no less than the same 1/4 of the length of this electromagnetic wave (the so-called "quarter-wave vibrator"). And if the hull of the boat is shorter, then nothing prevents you from letting out a LONG CABLE from the hull of the boat - an antenna of the required length. And, usually - well, do not disappear the "good" - on this "tucked" cable (like beads) there are also spatially distributed receivers of the hydroacoustic station ...

- so don't worry! - "ORDER" will quickly reach the submarine missile carrier, which is located even at a kilometer depth. Yes, the data transfer rate of such an "ultra-long" electromagnetic wave will be very LOW. But, as one general said in the film "the traditions of national fishing" - orders, like toasts - they should be "short - like a shot" - well, "so that there is time to rest ..."
8-)))

[tikhonov66]

"... And secondly, being in a sober mind and a firm memory to leave" a neighbor under the rug "a charged nuclear mine for 100 megatons unattended ???!
And who is the maniac here?
..."

Who's that ?!
"The maniac is here" is a pi-Indosia country that OFFICIALLY designated Russia as its ENEMY and set as its strategic goal - the DESTRUCTION OF RUSSIA.

- So that - "who didn't hide" - it's not my fault ...
Now they are themselves "evil Buratins".

[tikhonov66]

"... Well, if you know for sure that tomorrow is war, then yes.
..."
- so they tell you BLACK ON WHITE - that Russia is an ENEMY
And the strategic task of the "democratic world" is the DESTRUCTION OF RUSSIA.
And the only stopping factor is the receipt from Russia - IN ANSWER (!) - "unacceptable damage" (which has been repeatedly calculated and stated by the military-political analysts of the "probable enemy").
.
- and if "for exact knowledge" - all this is NOT enough for you ...
then I have big doubts about your SANITY ...
8-))

[SovAr238A]

Quote: xorek

Sakharov also proposed to strike with atomic torpedoes along the coast of the United States, causing a tsunami of enormous force, and one of the generals of the military-industrial complex called him a maniac It was later that, under the influence of his wife, he became a cunning dissident ..

Stop repeating this populist bullshit ...
Which doesn't even beat by dates.

The submarine of Project 627 and the T-15 torpedo to it, which the sailors and no one else planned to use for striking the enemy naval base from a distance of 25-30 miles, was designed in 1950-52.
When analyzing further - all work on it stopped, and by 1954 - the project was completely redesigned.
All work on the super torpedo was discontinued as meaningless.
In 1954 !!!

And Sakharov claims that he created the T-15 b torpedo based on the results of a thermonuclear explosion in 1961. And that he discussed it with Fokin in 1963 ...

That is, the topic about Sakharov's role in this issue is no longer growing together.
Sakharov did not participate in this project from the word in any way.
Everything that has been written about Sakharov is written from his personal words, and has not been confirmed by anything or anyone.

There is only one opinion that is at least somehow similar to reality
Quote: "According to Sakharov, in the early 1960s, he discussed the idea of ​​a new weapon with a certain Rear Admiral Fomin, and he" was shocked by the 'cannibalistic' nature of the project, "which shamed the father of the Soviet thermonuclear bomb. Reading Sakharov superficially, you can to think that it was he who proposed this type of weapon, although in fact he only claimed to invent a new engine for a super-torpedo. "
"Sakharov, in his own estimation, 'fantasized' a ramjet water-steam engine, which pushes the torpedo forward due to the strong heating of the ocean water in the core of an onboard reactor (by analogy with air-jet nuclear ramjets)."

He did not participate in anything related to the Poseidons and never did it.
Stop already repeating nonsense about Sakharov's role.

[tikhonov66]

"...
Sakharov also offered to strike with atomic torpedoes along the US coast, causing a tsunami of enormous force, and one of the military-industrial complex generals called him a maniac laughing Later, under the influence of his wife, he became a cunning dissident .. hi


Stop repeating this populist bullshit ...
..."
- you, dear, do not even IMAGINE - what are you talking about ...
8-))

"...
Which doesn't even beat by dates.
..."
- why should she fight ?!
8-))

"... The boat of Project 627 and the T-15 torpedo to it, which the sailors and no one else planned to use for striking enemy naval bases from a distance of 25-30 miles, was designed in 1950-52.
When analyzing further - all work on it stopped, and by 1954 - the project was completely redesigned.
All work on the super torpedo was discontinued as meaningless.
In 1954 !!!
..."
- P! and STILL - in Kiev - UNCLE.!
8-)))

"... And Sakharov claims that he created the T-15 V torpedo based on the results of a thermonuclear explosion in 1961. And that he discussed it with Fokin in 1963 ...
..."
- I've never heard that.
This is very similar to your personal "fabrications".

"...
That is, the topic about Sakharov's role in this issue is no longer growing together.
Sakharov did not participate in this project from the word in any way.
..."
- so no one (except you) - and did not "stutter" here about the "T-15". T-15 - had a conventional NUCLEAR (atomic) warhead - according to the technological scheme of Fission of uranium or plutonium nuclei.

While Sakharov is a WORLDWIDE RECOGNIZED (!!!) inventor of the so-called "puff" - the principle of constructing a THERMONUCLEAR charge (according to the scheme FISSION-SYNTHESIS-FISSION-SYNTHESIS, etc. - theoretically to infinity). And the THERMONUCLEAR charge created according to this "Sakharov" scheme - DOES NOT HAVE a theoretical LIMITATION ON THE POWER OF A SINGLE EXPLOSION.
- and for the EXPERIMENTAL demonstration of the absence of such a limitation - in 1963 according to the "Sakharovskaya puff" scheme - a THERMONUCLEAR charge with a capacity of 100 megatons was designed and practically-manufactured. This power is absolutely inconceivable for a conventional nuclear charge (according to the "fission" scheme). But they tested this 100 megaton charge (at the "new earth" test site) - only at its HALF power - "only" 50 megatons (prudence won).

But that's bad luck! It turned out that single charges of such a gigantic power turned out to be NOT RATIONAL for military purposes (no matter how cynical it sounds). And for this reason - practically - they were NOT NEEDED by the military.

The fact is that on the one hand - such giant thermonuclear charges - created EXCESSIVE destruction at the epicenter of the explosion, and on the other hand they had (compared to the resources spent on their manufacture) - such charges gave a relatively small area / radius of destruction.
It turned out - that according to the materials - i.e. in terms of the amount of uranium and plutonium required to destroy a given area, it was much more "rational" to make a lot of relatively small charges and evenly "scatter" them - over the largest affected area.

Thus, Sakharov's invention turned out to be "without practical prospects" (and hence funding, awards, prizes, etc.). And so - to show the military the "promise" of his SINGLE CHARGE of gigantic power - Sakharov had an idea - a GIANT UNDERWATER EXPLOSION off the coast of the enemy, which should cause a giant TSUNAMI, which was supposed to become the main damaging factor of such weapons. But the then military were not exactly horrified at the consequences of the use of such weapons, as they most likely doubted the POSSIBILITY OF TECHNICAL IMPLEMENTATION of this idea at the then level of technology (underwater) communication, the reliability (not serviced !!!) of control equipment and the capabilities of deep-sea technology.

- so the IDEA of "Poseidon" is definitely Sakharov's. This idea is completely LOGICAL - from the point of view of "selling" to the military his ingenious, but economically not rational invention. Well, like, he figured out how to make a charge of enormous power, but from a military point of view, a charge of such power was not needed by the military (not profitable).
- Well, today all of the above technologies have reached such a level of development that the implementation of Sakharov's idea in "Poseidon" has become practically feasible and in military-political demand - as a weapon of practically inevitable terrible retaliation to an arrogant aggressor.

- We will go to paradise - but they will simply DIE ... - including from the GIANT THERMONUCLEAR tsunami invented by the ingenious Sakharov.

- learn materiel!

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: xorek

Well, imagine letting her go to the duty area and she lies there until the order is received from the combat or slowly moves closer to the target.

Hear! Wah! Why is Em lying ... He walks quietly. There, here, there, here ... The dagger sharpens. Then zip .... and that's it! Have arrived

[ironic]

Yeah, only this is forbidden by the contract, it is the current exit, yes, now I didn’t do it, and even the 3rd MYROVOYNYNAYYITTSA yes ... We arrived ...

[Xnumx vis]

The third world begins on svidoukryakia! On your Kryzhopelshin!

[Wedmak]

The inevitability of retaliation. In fact, it makes no difference when there is a response to a nuclear strike - in an hour, or in a week. If it is 100%, it will make even hotheads think before pressing the red button, in the hope of their missile defense.
And I also think that the Poseidons will be not only shock, but also patrol and reconnaissance. They can also be trained to accompany our groups of ships, monitoring the situation around the perimeter.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Wedmak

And I also think that the Poseidons will be not only shock, but also patrol and reconnaissance. They can also be trained to accompany our ship groups,

Don't you think that these are somewhat different tasks and that they require several different technical solutions?

[Wedmak]

Replace warheads with reconnaissance and monitoring equipment? To make docking stations or launchers at naval bases? Add / replace slightly different communication systems? You don't think it's very difficult, do you?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Wedmak

Replace warheads with reconnaissance and monitoring equipment? To make docking stations or launchers at naval bases? Add / replace slightly different communication systems? You don't think it's very difficult, do you?

And I think that the only thing in common in these devices will be the electrical connector for communication with the carrier.

[vadimtt]

The problem is that the dimensions of modern warheads are extremely small in terms of full-fledged underwater reconnaissance equipment.

[the most important]

Quote: Wedmak

You don't think it's very difficult, do you?

Turn on the nuclear reactor, turn off the nuclear reactor, turn it on again ... Yes, everything is just elementary !!!

[Sergey Valov]

"Will make even hotheads think" - hotheads who make fateful decisions may well afford to move a safe distance from the coast and do not give a damn about those who cannot do it.

[Wedmak]

This is not entirely true. In any headquarters there are adequate people who understand the situation. But it is better to have such a weapon than not to have it.

[Sergey Valov]

“Who understand the situation” - they may understand the situation, but they do not have the information in full and do not make decisions.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Wedmak

And I also think that the Poseidons will be not only shock, but also patrol and reconnaissance.

And to carry tourists to the Canary Islands.

[Roman070280]

If it will be 100%, it will make even hot heads think before pressing the red button, in the hope of their missile defense.

First, there is a 99,9% chance that nothing will happen.
Secondly, the "hotheads" do not really hope for their missile defense system now, and they are not going to press any button.

no matter when there is a response to a nuclear strike - in an hour, or in a week

Here is a question about years and decades .. And for such a period of time to throw a nuclear bomb to the bottom off the coast of the United States .. Nuuuu .. so-so idea ..))

[Disant]

The inevitability of retaliation. In fact, it makes no difference when there is a response to a nuclear strike - in an hour, or in a week.

but something like that - in a week. ?
all will have time to screw up to Mexico on foot. Or they will be halfway to Africa, even by rowing

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And I still did not understand the purpose and objectives of these "Poseidons".

"The mind cannot understand Russia ..."

Quote: Jacket in stock

And why do we need a huge slow-moving torpedo? Why is it better, for example, a dozen ballistic missiles or hundreds of cruise missiles?

She's no better than an ICBM, she's worse.

[Sergey Valov]

“No better than an ICBM, it is worse” is the same as comparing who is stronger - a whale or an elephant. Poseidon is neither better nor worse, he is DIFFERENT.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Sergey Valov

it's like comparing who is stronger - a whale or an elephant.

No, it doesn't matter. We have a clear task - if something happens, to burn so that it does not seem a little. And ICBMs are better suited for this task than Poseidon.
The fact is that it is impossible to answer the question "who is stronger - a whale or an elephant" precisely because of the vague formulation "stronger" - it does not contain an indication of how this strength is manifested. At the same time, you can easily answer the questions "Who will swim a kilometer faster - a whale or an elephant" or "Who will run a hundred meters faster - a whale or an elephant".

Quote: Sergey Valov

Poseidon is neither better nor worse, he is DIFFERENT.

And it copes worse with the task

[Sergey Valov]

“He copes with the task worse” - no one has checked this, and their tasks are different.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Sergey Valov

"He copes with the task worse" - no one checked it

You know, no one has also checked what will better cope with the task of nuclear deterrence of the United States - an ICBM or a fly swatter. But this is not a reason to believe that a fly swatter is better :)

[Sergey Valov]

"ICBM or fly swatter" - I, in my naivety, thought that the topic "whale or elephant" is closed. But no. Well then, continue without me.

[hrych]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

She's no better than an ICBM, she's worse.

Why compare warm with soft? We have ICBMs, they have not gone anywhere, the whole range and promising. Firstly, there is no such carrier of Kuz'kina Mater. Tu-95 and free-fall ammunition does not roll. The non-mine-based proton also did not ride and went to space conversion. Although he did his job, having finished one of the stages of the nuclear confrontation and the Cold War. Secondly, there are no means of defense against it, even in the long term. Third, there is no better remedy for a Dead Hand system. Well, the only country (of the nuclear powers) against which this type is ineffective is Russia itself, as a continental power. And also, who said that Poseidon is bad at destroying enemy formations? Who said that he would be bad in anti-submarine warfare, including SSBNs. Okay, just don’t argue with me. Start a correspondence dispute with Academician Lavrentiev, Academician Sakharov, Rear Admiral Alferov, etc.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: hrych

Why compare warm with soft?

Because they are designed to solve the same problem.

Quote: hrych

We have ICBMs, they have not gone anywhere, the whole range and promising.

But there is not a heap of everything needed - there is not enough MPLA, naval aviation, RTR and AWACS aircraft, armored vehicles are entering the troops yesterday, etc. etc. And money is spent on Poseidon and its carriers

Quote: hrych

Firstly, there is no such carrier of Kuz'kina Mater.

So there is no Kuzka's mother either. And there is not a single official confirmation that Poseidon can carry her

Quote: hrych

Secondly, there are no means of defense against it, even in the long term.

It is just there - it is easier to defend against such a torpedo than from ICBMs, and within the framework of the organization of existing ASW areas

Quote: hrych

Third, there is no better remedy for a Dead Hand system.

Nothing better than SSBNs

Quote: hrych

And also, who said that Poseidon is bad at destroying enemy formations?

Our submarine will hardly approach the enemy's formation for a torpedo shot, here the skill of the commander should be hoo and a lot of luck. And here - a noisy and stupid drone.

Quote: hrych

Okay, just don’t argue with me.

I will not

Quote: hrych

Start a correspondence dispute with Academician Lavrentiev, Academician Sakharov, Rear Admiral Alferov, etc.

Why argue? Lavrentiev's project was closed by fleet specialists (the tsunami from 100 mt turned out to be frankly ridiculous), the same applies to Alferov's project of this T-15, Sakharov did not work on such a topic AT ALL (he had an idea, he expressed it, he was sent - that's all).

[hrych]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

It is just there - it is easier to defend against such a torpedo

Well, you have to understand that there is missile defense. Where the anti-missile is not the main thing, but only part of the system. Starting with a satellite early warning system. Those. to fix the start. Then the early warning radars work, the trajectory is being calculated, and so on. Here this does not come from the word at all. Here is your giant SSBN type is good, but the smaller, deep-sea and fast pier does not roll. The Russian Federation has no problems making ammunition of a hundred-megaton class, do not even hesitate. Who told you that Kuz'kina's mother would explode near the shore? The meaning of the explosion is further from the coast, to hit most of the coast. Ideally, it is better to smudge into the shelf boundary. So catch it with insignificant hydroacoustic means with a short detection range and when the ocean background does not allow you to overcome the limit.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Why argue? The Lavrentiev project was closed by the fleet specialists (the tsunami from 100 mt turned out to be frankly ridiculous),

Just don't lie about your laughs. The abandonment of the project was due to the impossibility of the torpedo carrier, i.e. PL, get out of the affected area. Also, the submarine had to approach the launch distance with a threat from the anti-aircraft weapons. What made you laugh? Now all these problems are not relevant. Sakharov & Co successfully developed the warhead of the torpedo. Therefore, it is ridiculous for Sakharov to refuse to develop the super torpedo assembly. Or should he be a rower

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: hrych

Well, you have to understand that there is a missile defense

Which still does not know how to fight even with a single ICBM with MIRVed IN

Quote: hrych

Here is your giant SSBN type is good, but the smaller, deep-sea and fast pier does not roll.

If Poseidon was launched from the pier, I would not say a word. But it needs a carrier that corresponds to the SSBN in size.

Quote: hrych

The Russian Federation has no problems making ammunition of a hundred-megaton class, do not even hesitate.

The question is not that it cannot, but the question is whether we have it and, if so, whether it will stand on Poseidon. You see, the idea of ​​100 mt and Poseidon is speculation by the media, who like Sakharov's torpedo, but the officials somehow did not confirm this

Quote: hrych

Who told you that Kuz'kina's mother would explode near the shore? The meaning of the explosion is further from the coast, to hit most of the coast.

Then the tsunami will strike at 2-5 km, and 200-500 m from the coastal cut :))))

Quote: hrych

Just don't lie about your laughs.

No hysterics, please.

Quote: hrych

The abandonment of the project was due to the impossibility of the torpedo carrier, i.e. PL, get out of the affected area.

That is, you do not even understand the difference between what Lavrentiev did and what Alferov did.
Lavrentyev was just studying the impact of a tsunami from a 100 mt warhead. Everything was pretty serious, even practiced - on the shores of Lake Ladoga, the US coast was parodied, with the recreation of the "continental shelf" and detonated real charges (non-nuclear, of course)
As a result, serious damage could be inflicted no further than 2-5 km from the water's edge. The direct executor (Suntsov) summed up: “Thus, we refuted the proposal of some hotheads to“ wash ”American imperialism off the face of the earth.
More details can be found here Adamskiy, V. B. 50-megaton explosion over Novaya Zemlya

Quote: hrych

Sakharov & Co successfully developed the warhead of the torpedo

Sakharov NEVER developed a torpedo warhead, it's a shame not to know. Developed about 50 Mt. AVIABOMB. Read Sakharov's memoirs

[hrych]

From the pier, he is announced. Although it is easier for a civilian vessel to secretly drop at a given point for duty. Belgorod and Khabarovsk, besides solving strategic problems, must also solve tactical ones. The same Poseidon is declared not only as a Doomsday torpedo, a hundred-megaton class for tsunami or radioactive contamination, but also in a tactical one of a couple of megatons against fleet units, bases, etc. There was an insider from Baranets that Poseidon had been in the patrol zone for three years, then for maintenance. Therefore, the hidden carrier in this scheme also suggests itself. Khabarovsk and Belgorod are also sharpened on the repaired Losharik and other special apparatus, and not only for Poseidon. The range of tasks for these nuclear submarines is wider. Modeling with waves is of course classified, but Ostretsov's insider about a seven-meter or more wave is quite adequate. When the threat to the carrier from the use of ammunition was gone. Also, there was no need to enter the active zone of the enemy's PLO, despite your criticism The Big Heads decided to return to the topic. Before denying, mocking, waking up the topic of drinking dough, think

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Sakharov NEVER developed a torpedo warhead, it's a shame not to know.

Antonov, A. M. Nuclear submarines, project 627 // Submarines: history of development: Sat. articles / Compiled by: V.P. Vlasov, design engineer. - Yekaterinburg, 2003.
The warhead of the torpedo was developed in KB-11 of the USSR Ministry of Medium Machine Building under the leadership of the chief designer Yu. B. Khariton - along with Academician A.D. Sakharov
I'm not ashamed

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: hrych

I'm not ashamed

It should be. First, in

Quote: hrych

Antonov, A. M. Nuclear submarines, project 627 // Submarines: history of development: Sat. articles / Compiled by: V.P. Vlasov, design engineer. - Yekaterinburg, 2003.

The quote you cite does not contain You were in such a hurry to copy and paste from the wiki that you could not even cite the source correctly... In fact, this is a quote not from Antonov, but from Shitikov, to which Wikipedia points directly :)))))
But here's the problem - the phrase you quoted

Quote: hrych

The warhead of the torpedo was developed in KB-11 of the USSR Ministry of Medium Machine Building under the leadership of the chief designer Yu. B. Khariton - along with Academician A.D. Sakharov

no, and there It is written there

Nuclear charges for torpedoes were originally developed by KB-11 under the leadership of Yu.B. Khariton.

Secondly, neither Antonov nor Shitikov mentions any Sakharov..
You see, Wikipedia is such a Wikipedia :)))))) You need to check the links, if you can't read the sources :)))) However, even this is clearly difficult for you, since you could not even determine which source the wiki is referring to

Quote: hrych

From the pier, he is announced.

Only in someone's fantasies. Unofficial persons.

[hrych]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You were in such a hurry to copy and paste from the wiki that you couldn't even cite the source correctly. In fact, this is a quote not from Antonov, but from Shitikov, to which Wikipedia points directly :)))))

This does not change the essence. Although I checked it forward. You can rejoice. However, in addition to the torpedo, INCLUDING ITS warhead, the nuclear submarine of project 627 was also developed. And if you did not go further, but there were draft designs. Okay. Developed, developed, but not developed. Is that okay? Or is the development of a draft design for your brother not a development? Only when in the gland? It is obvious that charges of a hundred-megaton class would never have passed by Sakharov. Sakharov himself wrote about this. You can check. Allow And the most important thing. The President knows better than Andryukha from Chelyabinsk! The General Staff knows better than Andryukha from Chelyabinsk! Academicians also know better than this evil Andryukha! And the device is already made in iron, apparently to spiteful critics of evil and evil Andryukha from Chelyabinsk.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Only in someone's fantasies. Unofficial persons.

If it is announced that it has an inertial guidance system, if it is announced that it has a rounding of the terrain, if it has an unlimited range. If its intercontinental range was voiced by the President himself, then whose fantasies are these?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: hrych

And the most important thing. The President knows better than Andryukha from Chelyabinsk! The General Staff knows better than Andryukha from Chelyabinsk! Academicians also know better than this evil Andryukha!

The argument is over, hysteria began :))))

Quote: hrych

If it is announced that it has an inertial guidance system, if it is announced that it has a rounding of the terrain, if it has an unlimited range. If its intercontinental range was voiced by the President himself, then whose fantasies are these?

Voiced, voiced :)))) But

Quote: hrych

From the pier he is declared

NOT SOUNDED

[hrych]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

The argument is over, hysteria began :))))

Your argument is gorgeous, they say why Poseidon, when there is an ICBM. A smart argument. The General Staff found its arguments. The position of the General Staff is closer to me. The President explained that it is quiet, very deep-water, faster than other torpedoes and ships, and invulnerable for the current means of intercontinental range. And he spoke about two types of torpedoes. And there were two types of devices in the cartoon. Yellowy, got out of the carrier of the nuclear submarine and actually the future Poseidon. That Status-6 was attached externally to the nuclear submarine was in the pictures. In cartoons, Poseidon (future) is shown without a carrier. "Off the pier" is your (relatively wacky) term I draw your attention once again to the fact that we were talking about two types of torpedoes and cartoons showed two types of torpedoes. Tactical and Strategic. Beginning at 6:60 a map with continents is shown, a roundabout is shown.

[ironic]

He was told that she was invulnerable, and he voiced it. And an intercontinental torpedo is generally some kind of bezishodnost.

[ironic]

Status does indeed have a different mission than ICBMs. The second has a nuclear shield, the first has money and politics.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: hrych

The warhead of the torpedo was developed in KB-11 of the USSR Ministry of Medium Machine Building under the leadership of the chief designer Yu. B. Khariton - along with Academician A.D. Sakharov
I'm not ashamed

Although it should be ...
For Khariton and Sakharov - they worked in different places, were engaged in different projects, and did not intersect with each other in their work ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: hrych

Why compare warm with soft?

As a matter of fact, we are comparing solutions to one problem - to deliver the warhead to the address.
And by the way, against the "continental" Russia, such a super-super torpedo is just more dangerous, in the Pacific Ocean there are enough 2 of them to completely forget about the Pacific fleet and in general almost all the population of our Far East. But on the American coastal area there are much more potential targets.

[hrych]

Poseidon does not go to the address, this is the BB ICBM goes to the address. In the case of Poseidon, water is sent to the address in the form of a tsunami wave. The task of Poseidon, like Santa's, is to deliver gifts to all the cities of the coast in one fell swoop. After the global war, the Pacific Fleet can be neglected. But the overwhelming majority of the population of the Russian Federation, its economic, military-political and cultural centers are located far from the coast and at a decent height above sea level. Washington and Beijing are 50 kilometers from the coast, not to mention New York and other centers that are on the coast.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: hrych

an overwhelming number of the population of the Russian Federation, its economic, military-political and cultural centers are located far from the coast and at a decent height above sea level.

Are you talking about Peter?
And in the Far East Vladik and Petropavlovsk, there are more and there are no cities.

[hrych]

While the enemy does not have the technology for the production of ammunition of the hundred-megaton class. There is no compact YSU of high power. And in the near future it is not expected. And the first Poseidon will soon take up experimental combat duty. Therefore, before they begin to develop something like that, we will try to apply this, of course, on the condition that our missile defense system will cope with a massive strike. Where the technologies used on Poseidon will go to satellites with combat lasers and to ground-based Peresvets.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: hrych

before they start to develop something like that, we will try to apply this

You should have a drink of valerian, or what is stronger.
You are scaring us.

[hrych]

Drink it yourself, once you got scared Our strategists and academics with huge heads have developed Poseidon's project, adopted and even done it in hardware. And nuclear weapons have been created to destroy the enemy, missile defense systems have been created for defense against these weapons. Why did you think? For beauty? Therefore, you can change the military site for a cutting and sewing course, since the principle of operation of these devices scares you so much

[Jacket in stock]

The principle of operation of the devices does not scare me.
People who seriously admit the possibility of their use scare me.
And even more so those who believe that they should be used.
You want to die, die yourself, why the rest of the world with you?

[hrych]

Quote: Jacket in stock

People who seriously admit the possibility of their use scare me.

Whoever developed these means, adopted them, etc., seriously admitted the possibility of their use. Otherwise why? Moreover, there was already the combat use of atomic weapons. Also, the list of countries with such weapons has expanded and it is too early and its use cannot be avoided. Therefore, it is advisable to apply it first.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: hrych

Otherwise why?

Well, like bum, both our Americans and Koreans and other Israelis are positioning nuclear weapons precisely as a deterrent.
Those. it is done so that no one ever dares to use it.

[hrych]

The Americans did not position themselves that way, they always planned the first strike, but only the counter threat slowed them down. We were just catching up and, for the first time, we pulled ahead with hypersonic missiles, gliding, maneuvering blocks and intercontinental cruise missiles and torpedoes. And now there is a frantic creation of missile defense systems on both sides. Only one of the parties will have the opportunity to strike and receive a minimum response, then the command for use will be immediate.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: hrych

Only one of the parties will have the opportunity to strike and receive a minimum response, then the command to use will be immediate.

Yah?
Do you think that in the forties we could answer the Americans?
Than, tanks in Paris?
Oh, scary, already horror.
They could have bombed us almost like a shooting range, but we are still alive.

[hrych]

If you would not start sarcasting, but would continue a polite dialogue, then I would tell you that in the forties, before the creation of our nuclear weapons, the Americans, after testing and combat use, did not have ready nuclear weapons, there were no developed weapons-grade Plutonium and Uranus and intelligence reported this to Stalin. A window of opportunity has appeared. "Hurry up Comrade Kurchatov (with a Georgian accent), we have a window of opportunity." Their bomb carrier was a B-29, and in 1949, the MiG-15 rocket entered service, and radar stations appeared. And in Korea, they conducted a simulation led by Kozhedub, ours showed that they could not get us and the pilots of the enemy would not let us through. We, with the analogs of the B-29, through landing on ice hop airfields for refueling in the Arctic, had to give change. At least try. After that, the next, already nuclear-missile round of the race began.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: hrych

If you would not start sarcasting, but would continue a polite dialogue, then I would tell you that in the forties, before the creation of our nuclear weapons, after testing and combat use, the Americans did not have ready-made nuclear weapons, there were no developed weapons-grade Plutonium and Uranus and intelligence reported this to Stalin.

Again a stream of lies.
It seems plausible - but a lie ...

Plan "Troyan", which provided for the start of hostilities on January 1, 1950. At that time, the United States had over 300 atomic bombs and nearly 800 long-range bombers capable of using atomic bombs.
But by 1950 we had only one test explosion and only 4 atomic bombs behind us.

You need to lie less ... you just lie and come up with intelligence, about Stalin ...

[2 Level Advisor]

and where did the infa about 100 megatons come from? it's just that it is already being used as a dogma, but where it came from is unclear ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

, but where they got it is not clear ...

Yes, like bae,
From "open sources", which some local commentators do not recognize, while others, on the contrary, competently discuss the details of the propellers, the device and performance characteristics of the reactor, communication and control systems ...
Most likely, the journalist blurted out some thread, the rest picked up. This is how "news" usually spreads.

[2 Level Advisor]

probably it means the unrealized power of the "tsar-bomb" just like 100 megatons was ... just, why not 200 or not 300 ...
And for good, as they did before, first they would conduct tests, and then drive billions into this project ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Jacket in stock

The principle of operation of the devices does not scare me.
People who seriously admit the possibility of their use scare me.
And even more so those who believe that they should be used.
You want to die, die yourself, why the rest of the world with you?

He already has missile defense systems at every intersection.

Do not interfere with the amateur marshal of the Couch Troops of the film DMB - to soar in his universe.
Another Romario Agro, as I understand it ...

[hrych]

What troops do you command? First, everyone is working hard on missile defense. There are positive results. Nudol and Aegis develop. And who are you, such a space specialist? Why not at the Pentagon? Didn't you take it? Don't you believe in Poseidon? So do not believe who is in the way. The main thing is that he is being tested here. What they say about dogs and a caravan

[Red]

Good afternoon colleague! The main task of this torpedo is retaliation. You can manage to cover ballistic missiles with your strike, try to intercept, etc. There and then the ocean to find it, like looking for a needle in a haystack.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Red

You can manage to cover ballistic missiles with your strike, try to intercept, etc. There and then the ocean to find it, like looking for a needle in a haystack.

And if you take a calculator and calculate?
Covering a boat with "Poseidons" with a sudden blow is no easier or more difficult than with a "mace" or "caliber".
Intercepting 16 "clubs" or 100 "calibers" is not at all easier than catching 4 huge noisy torpedoes near the coast, which is already covered by continuous hydroacoustic observation.
Yes, each Poseidon can fit a very large warhead that will not fit into any missile, but in total it will work.
And the "calibers" will not fall into the restrictions under the START treaty. You can cut them at least 10 thousand.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Jacket in stock

but the amount will work for that.

It is not possible to detonate 10 missiles at one point at the same time.
Therefore, such a tsunami as from Poseidon will not work.

[Disant]

The main task of this torpedo is retaliation.

why did you decide so?
the first stated goal is AUG.
listen to the president carefully

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And I still did not understand the purpose and objectives of these "Poseidons".

With the help of a powerful, underwater explosion of up to 100 Mt, it causes a tsunami, which leads to the complete destruction of large coastal cities / facilities along with all infrastructure and prolonged radioactive contamination, which makes these territories unsuitable for recovery and any economic activity for a long period.
Poseidon moves at a speed of 200 km / h at a depth of 1 km, which makes it impossible to intercept and destroy by existing means.
In addition, after leaving the carrier in the event of a decrease in danger, Poseidon can return to the carrier for reuse, which, for example, cannot be done by either a ballistic or a cruise missile.

[Sergey Valov]

Is this knowledge or wishlist? So I just see the docking under water of a giant nuclear torpedo and a submarine and a rapidly graying crew.
"Causes a tsunami" - or does not cause, there were no field tests, and modeling, for that and modeling, to conduct tests after it.

[Wedmak]

So I just see the docking under water of a giant nuclear torpedo and a submarine and a rapidly graying crew.

Well, somehow AS-12 Losharik docked to Orenburg and the Moscow region ... also nuclear, also to nuclear.

[Sergey Valov]

1. There was a crew on Losharik.
2. There was no nuclear warhead on Losharik.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

With the help of a powerful, underwater explosion of up to 100 Mt, it causes a tsunami, which leads to the complete destruction of large coastal cities / objects, along with all infrastructure

Even wikipedia knows that:
The idea to cause an artificial tsunami with a powerful (up to 100 megatons of oil equivalent) explosion off the coast of the United States belongs to Academician Lavrentyev. In 1962, he wrote a memo to Khrushchev, on whose initiative experiments were carried out to test the effects of a powerful coastal underwater explosion at the Central Research Institute-12 of the Ministry of Defense. Their results showed that regardless of the power of the underwater explosion, real damage could be inflicted on US coastal facilities at a distance of 2, maximum 5 km from the water's edge.
That is, complete about nothing

[Boris55]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

That is, complete about nothing

Have you seen a map of the USA? All major cities are located in the coastal zone.
"Poseidon" is going to update and modernize the system "Perimeter" - "Dead Hand". Naturally, it will be used along with all the means of destroying the enemy that we have.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Boris55

Have you seen the map of the USA?

Again:)))

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

real damage could be caused to US coastal facilities at a distance of 2, maximum 5 km from the water's edge

To do this, you do not need a 100 mt warhead under water, it is enough to jump 0,25 Mt along the base

[Boris55]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

To do this, you do not need a 100 mt warhead under water, it is enough to jump 0,25 Mt along the base

That's what the wave does not wash away, then the rest of our ICBMs will finish. Can you imagine what would happen if Poseidon exploded somewhere very close to the Statue of Liberty?

The Navy, which the United States is proud of, will be destroyed. Shipments by sea will not be possible due to the destruction of the entire coastal structure. The ships remaining in the sea will not be able to replenish their supplies, etc. In general, a complete US kirdyk incl. let them sit straight and do not twitch - the return arrival is inevitable.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Boris55

Can you imagine what would happen if Poseidon exploded somewhere very close to the Statue of Liberty?

CU hit is better

Quote: Boris55

The Navy, which the United States is proud of, will be destroyed.

He will not, he will carry out tasks at this time on our shores.

Quote: Boris55

Shipments by sea will not be possible due to the destruction of the entire coastal structure.

From an ICBM warhead - the same

Quote: Boris55

The ships remaining at sea will not be able to replenish their supplies, etc ...

Will go to any European port and replenish

Quote: Boris55

In general, a complete kirdyk USA incl. let them sit straight and do not twitch.

Which is provided by the ICBM. Poseidon is not needed for this

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Boris55

What the wave does not wash away, the rest of our ICBMs will be completed.

Yes, like bae,
About "Poseidon" they say exactly the opposite, it is like "the last breath", will sail when the whole war has ended for a week and will drown what has not burned out.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

To do this, you do not need a 100 mt warhead under water, it is enough to jump 0,25 Mt along the base

The radius of solid damage will be small.
In addition, after a nuclear explosion in the epicenter, you can walk without protection in a week, maximum 2.
In addition, by analogy with Poseidon, the United States will be able to destroy not very many large cities in our country, but we have ALL of them.
Read on Poseidon striking factors.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

The radius of solid damage will be small.

So the tsunami is also small

Quote: Alexey Sommer

In addition, after a nuclear explosion in the epicenter, you can walk without protection in a week, maximum 2.

After the tsunami - even faster

Quote: Alexey Sommer

In addition, by analogy with Poseidon, the United States will be able to destroy not very many large cities in our country, but we have ALL of them.

Americans will not suffer such nonsense - why? They are armed with the ancient Minutemans and good Tridents. And this is more than enough to scare the world. And in order to destroy large cities of the Russian Federation, this will be enough too

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

After the tsunami - even faster

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Read on Poseidon striking factors.

I insist.)

Simulation of a 100-megaton explosion in the NukeMap program by Alex Wellerstein [43] shows that even without amplification with a “cobalt bomb”, the size of the zone of strong radioactive contamination will be approximately 1700 × 300 km at a wind speed of 26 km / h

A practical test of even low-power nuclear underwater explosions (during Operation Crossroads) showed that the “base wave” of droplets and steam generated during a nuclear explosion is a carrier of extreme doses of radiation and, having “washed” the target ships, created on them such the level of radiation that the United States had to stop testing with them, as people could not approach any ship without receiving a dangerous dose of radiation. At the same time, experimental animals placed on the deck or inside the armored hull of battleships died from radiation in the same time (2 days), which shows that even thick metal armor does not protect against such a quantity of radiation. Thus, the indication that the Status-6 warhead has radioactive contamination as the main damaging factor coincides with practical tests and is noted by experts such as Jeffrey Lewis

The second most damaging factor is the creation of an artificial megatsunami with a wave height of 300-500 m with the arrival of the wave on the mainland under the condition of flat terrain up to 500 km [45].
The most serious and complete analysis of the problem of wave formation from nuclear explosions is given in the official Pentagon study "Water Waves Generated by Underwater Explosions" [46]. Generalizing different theories, the researchers gave a table of wave heights for nuclear explosions of different power and at different distances from the point of explosion under ideal conditions for wave formation. So, for an underwater explosion with a power of 100 Mt, the wave height at different distances from the epicenter will be:

at d = 9,25 km - 202-457 m;
d = 18,5 km - 101-228 m;
d = 92,5 km - 20-46 m;
d = 185 km - 10,1-22 m;
d = 925 km - 2,0-4,6 m.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

That's it. An ordinary nuclear weapon explosion will give much more. And about the tsunami - I already wrote, 2 - 5 km from the water's edge at 100 mt warhead. This is the result of REAL studies on this issue, which Academician Lavrentiev was engaged in. With a model of the Atlantic coast of the United States on Lake Ladoga, real detonations (of a non-nuclear, of course) charge, etc.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And about the tsunami - I already wrote, 2 - 5 km from the water's edge at 100 mt warhead.

You wrote without reference to the official research. I gave you specific studies of the Pentagon.
ps Of course, the exact numbers depend on the power of the explosion, the relief and depth of the sea zone of the explosion and the relief of the land against which this weapon is used.
But that the coastal megacities will get on the most do not indulge, there is no doubt.

[2 Level Advisor]

You mixed up the information .. in the specific studies of the Pentagon, it is written about the wave height of 400-500 meters and perhaps this is true, but with regard to the speed of its decline and penetration into the depths of the land, this is no longer a study of the Pentagon, but the opinion of someone else, it follows and directly indicated in your link [45] and [46] (different) ..

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

I have given you specific studies by the Pentagon.

Which Pentagon?
What kind of research?
You wrote about the NuMap program ...
Did you watch it yourself?
It is freely available on the Internet ...
It was written by an ordinary historian who has never dealt with physics, let alone nuclear physics ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Boris55

Have you seen a map of the USA? All major cities are located in the coastal zone.
"Poseidon" is going to update and modernize the system "Perimeter" - "Dead Hand". Naturally, it will be used along with all the means of destroying the enemy that we have.

Have you seen these gigantic agglomerations yourself?
You think this is New York City - but in fact it is an agglomeration.
And the size of this agglomeration is 35 thousand square kilometers.

Now compare this with the area of ​​Moscow of 2500 square kilometers and the area within the Moscow Ring Road of 900 square kilometers.

Get too tired to wash them off ...

[ironic]

Can you imagine if its carrier is added within a radius of 5 km from Vladivostok or Severodvinsk? And even if more, but with a nuclear torpedo, and 6 heads on board in a Cobalt 59 shell ...

[Wedmak]

at a distance of 2, maximum 5 km from the water's edge

It is enough to sweep away the naval base and inflict serious damage on all ships, spitting on all the booms, ASW and anti-torpedo nets.
5 km deep into the coastal city - there are thousands of houses, networks, electrical substations, infrastructure, port, warehouses ...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Wedmak

It is enough to sweep away the naval base and inflict serious damage on all ships, spitting on all the booms, ASW and anti-torpedo nets.

A half-megaton (at most) ICBM warhead will cope no worse, and even better. And much cheaper

[Wedmak]

A half-megaton (at most) ICBM warhead will cope no worse, and even better. And much cheaper

Not a fact, far from a fact.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Wedmak

Not a fact, far from a fact.

Absolutely reliable fact, just look at the consequences of a nuclear explosion

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Wedmak

A half-megaton (at most) ICBM warhead will cope no worse, and even better. And much cheaper

Not a fact, far from a fact.

Well, force yourself to spend a week looking for the results of nuclear explosions ...
There is a lot on the Internet.
Not everything is immediately searched for by direct search; many real documents are not indexed.
For they are located on resources where there are no tags for indexing by search engines.
And they are on the links from the resources.
those. you really need to spend a week.
I once spent it - I read it all for more than a week. translated.
And it became clear to me that this was all such a mess.
Water extinguishes up to 50% of all explosion energy simply for its evaporation ...
50%.
no lights and others ...
There is nothing more terrible for the population, for the economy, for any country than an air blast.
And the underwater one? Yes, there, after a year all the living creatures returned.

[Disant]

where did you see the underwater explosion?
officially there are only cartoons, and there clearly a torpedo explodes near the coast.
In general, from the cartoon and the words spoken during its showing, it becomes clear that AUG will be served on the first course.
AUG is the first target.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Disant

where did you see the underwater explosion?

For a tsunami to occur, the detonation must be at a depth of about a kilometer.

Quote: Disant

AUG is the first target.

AUG there generally on the side

[ironic]

And three or four separated by 100-150KT are even better. And more accurate and destructive.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: ironic

And three or four separated by 100-150KT are even better.

I can not agree :)

[ironic]

Well, Duc is trivial, it has already been calculated and proven that the best percussion instrument is a 3-4x head system with powers of 100-300 Kt. On boats, they put on 6 because of the limitation of the number of carriers under the contract, in all likelihood, dividing one carrier to defeat two targets, 3 for each.

[Operator]

In the Northern Fleet, the Poseidons do not need a carrier - the cold current from the Arctic Ocean, directed opposite to the warm current of the Gulf Stream (at greater depths), will absolutely silently carry the Poseidons to the Sargasso Sea, where they will float to a shallower depth and also silently with the help of already the Gulf Stream will be distributed among combat positions along the entire Atlantic coast of North America.

SOSUS will be out of business from the word at all

[Grandfather]

Quote: Operator

In the Northern Fleet, the Poseidons do not need a carrier - the cold current from the Arctic Ocean, directed opposite to the warm current of the Gulf Stream (at greater depths), will absolutely silently carry the Poseidons to the Sargasso Sea, where they will float to a shallower depth and also silently with the help of already the Gulf Stream will be distributed among combat positions along the entire Atlantic coast of North America.

SOSUS will be out of business from the word at all

beautifully expounding ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Dead Day

beautifully expounding ...

But again, without actual knowledge of hydrology.
He has a 40-ton, 20-meter torpedo - it has become a water sail, moving at the behest of underwater currents ...
He's one of these ... Alternate universes. Gifted ... Or hurt as a child ...
For so many fantasies are presented by the Operator ...
They are identical twins here.
Operator, Hrych, RomarioAgro and CCCP ....
All are very fancy guys.

[xorek]

Quote: Operator

In the Northern Fleet, the Poseidons do not need a carrier - the cold current from the Arctic Ocean, directed opposite to the warm current of the Gulf Stream (at greater depths), will absolutely silently carry the Poseidons to the Sargasso Sea, where they will float to a shallower depth and also silently with the help of already the Gulf Stream will be distributed among combat positions along the entire Atlantic coast of North America.

SOSUS will be out of business from the word at all

You're a genius!

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Operator

In the Northern Fleet, the Poseidons do not need a carrier - the cold current from the Arctic Ocean,

Oh, these storytellers .... (c)

[ironic]

Yeah, only that is prohibited under the contract. Find at least one and start TMV, right away.

[paul3390]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Why is it better, for example, a dozen ballistic missiles or hundreds of cruise missiles?

I think - because it should be much more difficult to detect and intercept it .. The ocean is big and deep .. And the adversary's nerves should be pretty good - it's hard to decide on the first blow, if you know that even after his success in a few days it's quiet to you but will inevitably float ..

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: paul3390

I think it should be much more difficult to detect and intercept it ..

ICBMs with MIRVed IN so far have not really learned to intercept ICBMs. Even a single one, not to mention a massive volley

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: paul3390

it should be much more difficult to spot and intercept .. The ocean is big

And the sky, like less?
Funny.
And yes, we were told that this thing will travel across the ocean at a speed of as much as 100 knots. It is necessary to be blind and deaf in both eyes, so as not to detect such a rattle.

[Wedmak]

It is necessary to be blind and deaf in both eyes, so as not to detect such a rattle.

It seems that if it passes right under you, and you have a sensitive hydrophone, and lo and behold, it was discovered, you ... can not do anything. How to get a nuclear torpedo going at a speed of 100 km / h, at a depth of 1 kilometer? Moreover, with an unknown route.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Wedmak

if it passes right under you, and you have a sensitive hydrophone, and lo and behold, it is found, you ... can not do anything. How to get a nuclear torpedo going at a speed of 100 km / h, at a depth of 1 kilometer?

If you have a sensitive hydrophone, you will hear it long before.
And you do not need to catch up with her, she already floats to you.
As a last resort, the torpedo missile will catch up with it without straining.
And determining the route is also not a problem, because you have not just a hydrophone, but a whole network of them.

[Wedmak]

Okay, let's complicate the task: you do not know where Poseidon is, you do not know at what depth he is going and at what speed. Even with a network of hydrophones, PLO ships, aircraft and submarines patrolling missile-torpedoes, it is far from a fact that you will detect a threat in time.
Poseidon can traverse the boundaries of hydrophones at low speed under a sound-absorbing layer of water. Missile-torpedoes only travel in a straight line, so there is a chance that they will dodge them too. There can be several routes, it can circle for days and weeks, bypassing active sonars of ships and submarines, aircraft buoys. And nobody canceled distracting maneuvers. Just like no one canceled the salvo launch. 6-8 pieces at once, from different directions, with different tasks, with different routes. You get tired of catching.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Wedmak

Just like no one canceled the salvo launch.

That's right. Instead of hitting an enemy naval base with the same "Vanguard" and forgetting about it forever, let's spend on it

Quote: Wedmak

6-8 pieces at once

with the same efficiency

[Wedmak]

with the same efficiency

Sure? What if the Vanguard Mine is destroyed? Missile shot down while gaining speed? And then, I didn't say that all 6-8 will be directed to one base. The outfit of forces is unknown to us. So is the breakout scheme.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Wedmak

Sure? What if the Vanguard Mine is destroyed?

You see, the likelihood that the carrier of the "Poseidons" will crash before a volley is significantly higher than the scenario you described

Quote: Wedmak

Missile shot down while gaining speed?

Nobody and nothing

[Wedmak]

the likelihood that the carrier of "Poseidons" will crash before a volley is significantly higher than the scenario you described

Than it will be banged? Stealth is the same as that of the SSBN. The start is not noticeable at all.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Wedmak

Than it will be banged? Stealth is the same as that of the SSBN.

That's the problem. With the secrecy of the SSBN, we have ... not very

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Wedmak

Okay, let's complicate the task: you do not know where Poseidon is, you do not know at what depth he is going and at what speed. Even with a network of hydrophones, PLO ships, aircraft and submarines patrolling missile-torpedoes, it is far from a fact that you will detect a threat in time.
Poseidon can traverse the boundaries of hydrophones at low speed under a sound-absorbing layer of water. Missile-torpedoes only travel in a straight line, so there is a chance that they will dodge them too. There can be several routes, it can circle for days and weeks, bypassing active sonars of ships and submarines, aircraft buoys. And nobody canceled distracting maneuvers. Just like no one canceled the salvo launch. 6-8 pieces at once, from different directions, with different tasks, with different routes. You get tired of catching.

We repeat once again for the gifted, who do not want to think about how the opposition takes place.
Poseidon carriers will be absolutely 100% escorted right from the base.
She will be accompanied by so many enemy boats. how much they want to bet.
3-5-6 ...
They will do it so clearly - that they will get on the nerves strongly.
They will go to the collision. Active GAS mode. Simulated torpedo attacks.
You can't even dream of any imperceptible movement of the carrier - and even more so the launch of Poseidon.
Opening a torpedo tube on our boat - we must be ready to receive torpedoes from the enemy.
Our carrier will not be able to release more than one Poseidon - it will be instantly destroyed.
For we simply do not have the strength for confrontation and a real war with the American submarine.

And there is no need to complicate anything. about not knowing where Poseidon is.
They know, lead the carrier, control it.
Dozens of other Poseidons, those that are PLO planes, are pointing.

[paul3390]

It can drive at 100 knots and drives - there are two big differences .. Nobody bothers the piece of iron to quietly drip at 5 knots for a week, and in front of the harbor - for example, to jerk sharply. The sky is no less. But you must agree - a flying warhead is much easier to detect than a quiet underwater vehicle at great depths?

[Many_ways_point]

And he is not quiet. A torpedo with a nuclear engine cannot be quiet in principle, there is no room for some kind of sound insulation. And in fact, detection for a warhead is a trifle, there are a lot of false targets besides it, but for Poseidon, detection is the end. He is immediately banged from the PLO aircraft.

[Wedmak]

A torpedo with a nuclear engine cannot be quiet in principle

Why suddenly? Poison-> current generator-> electric motor, which is much quieter, there are a minimum of moving parts.

but for Poseidon, detection is the end. He is immediately banged from the PLO aircraft.

At a depth of a kilometer? Bang a cigar with a diameter of 1,5 meters (or how much is there), 24 meters long? Than? In general, I have doubts that the plane will be able to detect it, it is necessary to scatter hundreds of buoys.

[Many_ways_point]

Why suddenly? Poison-> current generator-> electric motor, which is much quieter, there are a minimum of moving parts

Since in such a configuration with an electric motor, it will give you 10 front knots and no more. And there it is stated more, so there is no question of any electric motor. In addition, it stupidly does not fit in size.

At a depth of a kilometer? Bang a cigar with a diameter of 1,5 meters (or how much is there), 24 meters long? Than? In general, I have doubts that the plane will be able to detect it, it is necessary to scatter hundreds of buoys.

LF illumination This is if you suddenly imagine that it does not make noise ala goldfish, and this is most likely the case. The plane will just fly in and throw off the torpedo and nothing more.

[Wedmak]

Since in such a configuration with an electric motor, it will give you front 10 nodes and no more.

Well, yes ... 636s on batteries and electric motors give out 20 nodes under water, but here with power from poison will be 10 with significantly smaller dimensions?

[Many_ways_point]

At 636 there is no huge reactor that takes up a lot of space. And yet, will he also give out 100 knots on electric motors?

[Svetlana]

Quote: Many_holes_point

where do these bubbles come from.

Bubbles appear when water is heated to a boil. (example - a kettle on a gas stove). There is something to warm up - a nuclear power plant (NPP) of Poseidon. There is also water overboard. Any power plant needs cooling. Nuclear power plant Poseidon is cooled by seawater.

[Many_ways_point]

And how do you think this giant boiling kettle will be, rustling with bubbles for many kilometers and unmasking itself with stealthy jets of boiling water? This is not serious.
It should be either fast and loud or quiet and slow. There are no miracles.

[Wedmak]

As I understand it, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation should have asked you first whether it was worth doing such a thing, and not wandering around specialized institutes and prying out professors and engineers.
Do you know exactly how steam behaves when surrounded by water at a pressure of 100 atmospheres? Or are you an expert in fluid dynamics? Or by NU? Or hydrology?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Wedmak

I have doubts at all that the plane will be able to detect it, it is necessary to scatter hundreds of buoys.

scattered, no problem.

[ironic]

Aha, only they can detect even low-noise boats, but they won't find a fool screaming across the ocean at a frantic pace, in size, like a small boat.

[xorek]

According to preliminary information, the nuclear submarine "Belgorod" after the transfer to the customer will serve in the Pacific Ocean, while it will be able to solve its problems anywhere in the World Ocean

In short, we will be where they are not waiting for us .. Or maybe they are already on duty

[Runway]

It is said that this ship is more than 949 projects. Not to be confused with anything ... News in the style of "a chicken in the nest, and we ...".

[Ascold1901]

That's interesting!))) "Noisy", "low-speed", etc., etc.))) How does everyone know the performance characteristics of the new development?)))
Only, please, do not refer to open sources .... somehow unreasonable!)))

[Wedmak]

Are you not considering the power of the tactical couch's reconnaissance equipment?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Ascold1901

That's interesting!))) "Noisy", "low-speed", etc., etc.))) How does everyone know the performance characteristics of the new development?)))

People just know physics :)))))

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Ascold1901

That's interesting!))) "Noisy", "low-speed", etc., etc.))) How does everyone know the performance characteristics of the new development?)))
Only, please, do not refer to open sources .... somehow unreasonable!)))

Is it possible to turn the laws of physics and hydrodynamics so that they cease to be laws?
Themselves tried to include the mind?

[Ascold1901]

Without knowing the Tactical and Technical Characteristics, one cannot say all the nonsense about noise, etc.
For example. Propeller driven fighters could not overcome the speed of sound. The speed of sound was overcome at a new technological stage. And now hypersonic aircraft have appeared.
Note the laws of physics have remained unchanged!)) And no one was going to change them)))) It is not clear what you "dragged" the physical laws into.)))
Earlier, just like you now, you argued that airplanes are impossible, metal ships cannot float and the Sun revolves around the Earth. And they also referred to the laws of physics.)))
You do not know what technological and scientific solutions are incorporated in the "Poseidons", but already slow-moving, noisy .....)))
Glad you know the laws of physics.
But it seems to me that the Reason is not included in you.

[ironic]

How do you imagine a low-noise run of 50 knots or more? What should be the performance characteristics for this?

[Ascold1901]

"How do you imagine a low-noise run of 50 or more knots?"
No way!)))) I do not speculate and do not draw conclusions without having any data.)))
Fortune telling "on the coffee grounds" (what the physics expert SovAr238A (Al) does) is not a sign of Reason.))))
For example. At the beginning of the 20th century, destroyers sailed at a speed of 25-27 knots ("Lieutenant Burakov" developed 32, but it can hardly be called a full-fledged destroyer). A steam turbine was invented and built, and the Noviks ran quietly at a speed of 35-36 knots, and battleships at a speed of 25-27 knots.
And similar examples .... well, very, very many.)))
I do not like it when they pass off their Guesses with pathos as the Truth.))) It is unreasonable.)))

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Ascold1901

"How do you imagine a low-noise run of 50 or more knots?"
No way!)))) I do not speculate and do not draw conclusions without having any data.)))
Fortune telling "on the coffee grounds" (what the physics expert SovAr238A (Al) does) is not a sign of Reason.))))
For example. At the beginning of the 20th century, destroyers sailed at a speed of 25-27 knots ("Lieutenant Burakov" developed 32, but it can hardly be called a full-fledged destroyer). A steam turbine was invented and built, and the Noviks ran quietly at a speed of 35-36 knots, and battleships at a speed of 25-27 knots.
And similar examples .... well, very, very many.)))
I do not like it when they pass off their Guesses with pathos as the Truth.))) It is unreasonable.)))

You are guessing, as you are guessing.
You take and deliberately emphasize one factor, and just as deliberately belittle the other.

Now compare the speed and noise ...
And the same examples of airplanes and destroyers - which you cite as a movement of the human mind - are in some way measures of acceleration, but also of descent.
a piston aircraft flying at an altitude of 1000 meters is quiet, you may not even hear it, but the jet is listened to much further.

And the speed of movement - especially in the aquatic environment - is an extremely unmasking factor.
Just by the same laws of physics. Cavitation there, bubble collapse.

[Ascold1901]

The jet plane is heard after it has flown.))) The speed of the SU-35 is 1,1 max in cruise mode and 2,5 in afterburner.
I'm not an expert, maybe that's why I don't know if there are sonars for detecting modern aircraft.
I also don’t know if there are ways to detect submarines by cavitation trail. If you know, then tell me (this is already serious, without "jokes")

[ironic]

She does not want to know all this. It only gets in the way.

[ironic]

The truth is not comprehensible, but the facts, what noise is emitted by 50 knots, even the well-known, incomparably smaller, modern torpedoes, this is just the very physics that you can't get away from, but what you wrote is already lyrics.

[AshPoseidon]

Well, the carriers of the "Poseidons" have emerged. Success to our engineers, scientists, technicians and everyone who made and is making such weapons at this difficult time for us.

[Xenofont]

Actually, when driving at high speeds, the effect of cavitation is used, and this is easier to detect than, "sorry", farting herring.

[Silver Fox]

In the case of a compact low-speed drone moving at a depth of about 1000 m, an anti-submarine surface ship will not be able to detect it using modern acoustic technologies. This is a reactor with a liquid metal coolant. the reactor has two power modes: low-power and high-power. The transition between modes is carried out in the drone "200 times faster" than in the reactors of modern nuclear submarines. Liquid metal can withstand extreme overheating of thousands of degrees without strong thermal expansion. Even if you find it, you can't catch up.

[ironic]

Do you already know what kind of reactor it has? Do you know at what minimum speed this drone, the size of a small boat, can move?

[Old26]

Quote: Wedmak

Replace warheads with reconnaissance and monitoring equipment? To make docking stations or launchers at naval bases? Add / replace slightly different communication systems? You don't think it's very difficult, do you?

This means that the entire product must be redesigned. If it (product) is made as a "torpedo". then everything else is a complete redesign.

[dgonni]

Ndya! The Pacific Fleet is not the best place to base them. Obviously! From logistics and repair base to deployment conditions!
Again, rake only the other side!

[Silver Fox]

Quote: Jacket in stock

And I still did not understand the purpose and objectives of these "Poseidons".

any naval base can be destroyed. This is just one application. It cannot be compared to rockets at all. This is an underwater nuclear drone.

[ironic]

And how to release it? As well as ICBMs only for tests declared in advance, otherwise TMV will start.

[AC130 Gunship]

About these Poseidons, except for cartoons, there is no specific information at all. Some fortune-tellers and estimates. They wrote that she did not need a mother ship at all. Then suddenly it already needs. It is incomprehensibly shorter. Especially with the control system. The radio signal sounds very bad under water. Relay aircraft deploy antennas 8 km long to send one code. Whether the submarine received the signal or not, no one knows before surfacing