Military Review

Do we need such a memory?

128
I had a raid to the south. So we will soon talk about some of the nuances of the southern tactical direction, including the Crimea, which is ours, and even more so about the Crimea, which is not ours.


But I would like to start with a little abstract topic.


I have been stirring the topic of memory and monuments for a long time and I simply will not let it fall. Actually, they didn’t put it, this topic, in order to take it and drop it. "The people who do not remember the past ..." and so on.

It so happened that I chose Anapa as the place of temporary deployment for several reasons at once, and made raids to the Crimea.

It so happened that quite close to the PPD on Gorky Street, I immediately discovered something resembling a memorial. Found - must be examined for an item. I took my camera and went.


Honestly, sometimes the initiative is not just a punishable case, but punishable in full.

The first thing that catches your eye is the tool and the scheme.


The scheme is absolutely correct, there are no complaints about it. But further ...

Let's get a little stories?

The first character in our history is the Shahumyan destroyer.


The destroyer is conditional, because when it was laid down, yes, the ships of the Fidonisi type, the Black Sea relatives of the Noviks, were destroyers. But by 1941, the "Shaumyan" could be considered a destroyer with a huge stretch.

Laid down in 1916 as Levkas, it entered service only in 1925. Displacement 1580 tons (full), speed 36 knots, cruising range 2 130 miles at 18 knots. The armament consisted of four 102-mm guns. Anti-aircraft armament consisted of four DShK machine guns with a caliber of 12,7 mm. In addition, the ship carried four 457 mm three-tube torpedo tubes. Crew of 9 officers and 127 sailors.

The destroyer was laid down as "Levkas", since January 1919 it was renamed "Ivan Sirko", since February 5, 1925 it became a part of fleet like “Shahumyan”.


With the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, "Shahumyan" took part in mine laying, escorting transports and the defense of Odessa. From the beginning of November 1941 he took part in the defense of Sevastopol. On December 28-29, 1941, the destroyer landed troops in Feodosia, January 15-16 and January 24-25, 1942 troops in Sudak. February 28-29 - landing in Alushta.

On April 3, 1942, in a heavy snowfall, "Shaumyan" was crossing from Novorossiysk to Poti. Due to gross violations of the rules of navigational service, the ship ran aground near Gelendzhik in the area of ​​Cape Tonky. During the accident, the ship broke through the bottom and lay down on the ground.

It was not possible to remove the ship from the stones, subsequently the ship was completely destroyed by storms and German aviation.

But the 102-mm guns of the Obukhov plant with ammunition were removed from the ship, transported to the shore and used to form the coastal battery No. 464.


The destroyer gunners were also sent there along with their guns.

August 1942. The battery was fully formed and ready for battle. It so happened that the calculations of the battery guns turned out to be the last defenders of Anapa. The combat mission was set to delay the enemy's advance in any way.

The choice was small, in fact, the only one - to fire on the enemy until the full use of the ammunition of the guns. That is, 1000 shells.

The battery was commanded by senior lieutenant Belokhvostov.

On the morning of August 30, 1942, the guns of "Shaumyan" opened fire on the column moving towards Anapa from the direction of the Gostagaevskaya stanitsa. tanks and enemy vehicles. The tankette, the gun and about 20 vehicles with infantry and cargo were destroyed, and the enemy's movement was stopped.

The Germans retreated, being completely unprepared for the fact that 102-mm shells would fall quite accurately and carry death. And for the naval gunners, it was easier to shoot from a fixed platform than from the deck of a small destroyer. So the result was quite predictable.

On the morning of August 31, the Germans again left the village of Gostagaevskaya. At 9 am the battery opened fire again. They did not spare the shells, the outcome of the battle was clear to all the Red Navy men, there was nowhere to retreat.

The Germans stopped their offensive towards Anapa and moved part of the equipment and personnel directly to the battery. The battle went on almost all day. By 17 o'clock, the 464 battery was completely surrounded.

The commander of battery 464 Belokhvostov decides to destroy all documents, blow up the battery and break through to the village of Blagoveshchenskaya, where the boats were waiting for evacuation.

The cover group of the spotter commander Sharoglazov remained on the battery. The rest of the personnel under the command of Belokhvostov withdrew in battles along the Vityazevskaya spit to the village of Blagoveshchenskaya, was taken on boats and taken to Gelendzhik.

Having shot all the ammunition, the remnants of Sharoglazov's group (16 people) were captured during the retreat, the rest (about 30 people) died or disappeared without a trace.

In total, the battery destroyed 20 vehicles and about 900 Germans. The Nazis captured Anapa and adjacent villages.


Two days of combat work of the battery. An episode of that war.

And this is what we have today.






It's just wonderful that history has preserved and brought to us the names of those who fought in these positions.

It is wonderful that the place where the 464 battery stood is not forgotten and this very nice square was created on it. Clean, well lit in the evening and cozy.




This is a good memory.

What's bad is the way it is all done.







Errors on the signs are unpleasant. Yes, today you can easily say, “Who cares, barbet or barbet?”. Indeed, what kind?

Illiteracy is humiliating. For both sides, and the one that wrote this, and the one about which they wrote. Like "Tigers" in films about the battle of Moscow in 1941 or La-5, which, judging by the films, generally fought from the first to the last day.

And what about the weapon?

With the gun, too, everything is sad.



It immediately becomes clear (probably not to everyone) that this weapon has nothing to do with the events of 1942. But it still stands here.

In fact, this gun has its own history. They say that there used to be a sign telling about what kind of gun it is and why it is here.

This is a 4-mm SM-130 artillery mount, designed to combat high-speed enemy ships and airborne assault forces.

In our case, this is the coastal artillery installation SM-4-1B No. 633T, caliber 130 mm, firing range 27 km.

The installation made its first artillery fire in 1956, the last in 2001.

The gun served 45 years and during its time in the combat composition of the Black Sea Fleet performed 216 artillery fires, fired 2400 shells, and repeatedly won the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy for artillery fire.

On May 8, 2010, the gun was installed on battery 646 in the village of Vityazevo.


Here's a story. With ambivalent feelings and questions.

1. Why was a weapon installed at the site of the battery that had nothing to do with that war?

2. Why did they remove the sign telling about what kind of weapon it is? Apparently, at today's level of historical "enlightenment", just a gun with a barrel and painted green is enough?
By the way, the color, to put it mildly, is not the same at all.

3. Why does no one have any questions about the illiterate inscriptions on the tablets? Okay, the barrel of the antiamphibious gun facing the sea is normal. But the guns of the 646 battery looked in the completely opposite direction.

And the most important question: do we need such a story at all? Blinded "on the knee", stretched in the style of "owl on the globe"?

Of course, it's great that the place where the 646 battery fought for two days remained untouched, it is being looked after. But the approach itself is outraged. Of course, not the level of the Nazis on the posters for Victory Day or February 23, but still.

Why do we need a story that is not history at all? Why do we need such monuments that evoke nothing but pity and surprise?

It is clear that there are few specialists, and mostly people who come to the southern city on vacation are not interested in such cruel details. But can we even afford such things?
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 April 7 2021 11: 12
    +21
    When, to be honest, everything should be so ...
    Formalism does not humiliate the heroes' feat, but it shows well who cares about our story ... it doesn't matter.
    1. Asad
      Asad April 7 2021 12: 14
      +16
      Well, where will the municipalities find the “correct” tool? A normal monument, I saw much worse.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding April 7 2021 13: 15
        +7
        Quote: ASAD
        Well, where will the municipalities find the “correct” tool? A normal monument, I saw much worse.

        History does not tolerate negligence.
        And this should be taught from a young age.
        Here I agree with Skomorokhov one hundred percent.
        This is a special attitude, a thrill inside when you touch the weapons that the grandfathers fought with.
        And falsehoods cannot be tolerated here in any form. Falsehood is destructive.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter April 7 2021 14: 21
          +1
          Quote: Flood
          And falsehoods cannot be tolerated here in any form. Falsehood is destructive.

          And here everything is simple, the formalism of officials in the Russian Federation is off scale, there is a task, they set what happened, reported, the money was written off. And that's all, even though the grass does not grow.
          In this case, I completely agree with the author.
          1. your1970
            your1970 April 8 2021 11: 02
            +7
            Quote: Stroporez
            And here everything is simple, the formalism of officials in the Russian Federation is off scale, there is a task, they set what happened, reported, the money was written off. And that's all, even though the grass does not grow.

            And the formalism of the bureaucrats of the USSR did not go off scale ??? !!!! The party instructed, the bureaucrats stuck the post-war T-34-85 (since they were like dirt) on the pedestal, reported on the work done in the regional committee, the money was written off and even though the grass did not grow .... It was not like that ?????? !! !!!!!!!
            Where on the pedestals BT-2/5/7 ??? Where is at least 1 pre-war plane on a pedestal ????
            Okay, tanks / planes / ships - such as ferrous and non-ferrous metal resource - therefore in open-hearth and figs with it with memory ...
            But, damn it, PO-2 was made of pieces of wood and rags - there were zero resources, but they were also written off and destroyed during the USSR ... it was weak for museums with 10-k to leave - as a memory ????

            Well, it was necessary to think about the future - the bureaucrats of the USSR were not accustomed to this ... The plan to fulfill / master the grandmother / report to the Central Committee is easy, but the MBR-2 or Catalina to the museum - you che, this was not in the plan, so to junk them ...

            And now to cry - "Oh, not authentic! Oh, the paint is not the same! Oh, there is no memory left!" the entire bulk of the pre-war and military equipment in the USSR was cut ...
            Previously, you had to scream and cry, for about 50 years ... then everyone was profiled and turned into a fake, and she
            Quote: Flood
            Falsehood is destructive


            The main thing was to shout: "Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten!", But the fact that the people saw that a disabled war veteran with 4 Orders of Glory (!!!!) lives in an emergency (since 1972 !!!!!) barrack - so it's a trifle - he doesn't ask for a place to live, yeah ... Under socialism, under capitalism, he died in an emergency barracks ...

            Z. Y.
            As a child, in the 1970s, I was in the Kursk region - so there the forest was packed with equipment - tanks, armored cars ... I remember in a tank it was even possible to turn the tower and lower the barrel ...
            In 1983 she was no longer there - they cut and took out
            1. irontom
              irontom April 9 2021 08: 37
              +2
              For the shooting of the film "A Particularly Important Task" in the 81st year dedicated to Sergei Vladimirovich Ilyushin, it was discovered that even in museums there is not a single Il-2, by some miracle the Il-10 was saved in Monino and that's it.
              Found in a peat bog, landed on the forced on December 30, 1942, IL-2, the plant restored, after filming "Particularly important task" and "You must live" the plane is exhibited in Monino. Even the Voronezh IL-2 monument in front of the factory entrance was raised from the swamp in 79th.
            2. Elektron34
              Elektron34 April 13 2021 10: 30
              +1
              To understand why this is the case, you just need to note for yourself the fact - Victory Day began to be celebrated only 20 years later. Accordingly, for 20 years in the country, no one set the task of living in the past and artificially implanting memory about it - the country was developing, moving forward, living tomorrow, dreamed of space ...
              1. your1970
                your1970 April 13 2021 17: 53
                0
                AND???!!!! What prevented this technique from being taken out and restored in 1970-80 ???
                Quote: your1970
                As a child, in the 1970s, I was in the Kursk region - so there the forest was packed with equipment - tanks, armored cars ... I remember in a tank it was even possible to turn the tower and lower the barrel ...
                In 1983 she was no longer there - they cut and took out

                It was no longer the 50s and 60s ...

                Z. Y.
                Quote: Elektron34
                Accordingly, for 20 years in the country, no one set the task of living in the past and artificially implanting memory about it -

                "Those who do not remember the past have no future" - as it turned out, this also applies to the USSR ...
          2. Torins
            Torins April 9 2021 07: 36
            +2
            The overwhelming majority of the original weapons were destroyed during the Soviet era.
          3. Kaman
            Kaman April 10 2021 09: 35
            0
            And I thought Roman Skomorokhov was no longer on VO. He used to be a big boss at VO
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding April 8 2021 14: 14
            +3
            Quote: AKuzenka
            Your words, yes to Skomorokhov's ears. A well-known apologist and singer of capitalism, who hates everything Soviet and suddenly such a reverent attitude towards the most heroic period of Soviet history

            I have nothing in common with Skomorokhov except swearing in correspondence and an eternal ban.
            But if I agree with a person, even if he is an enemy, I don’t conceal it.
            Almost like Plato and Socrates.
            1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 210ox
        210ox April 7 2021 19: 26
        +10
        Yes, that's it. Here Roman is wrong. I visit this place many times, passing by from Gorky towards the street. Lermontov. This is a good monument. Well, and the fact that this weapon is clearly later years, then what's the difference? By the way, these guns were taken away by the Germans for metal. There are cutter marks on the pins.
      3. Souchastnik
        Souchastnik April 8 2021 09: 23
        +1
        Well, where will the municipalities find the “correct” tool?

        If you say "what can I?" then nowhere and no one will find anything.
        But on the good - the work of the Ministry of Defense is needed here. This wonderful organization has a plan for military history work. Like many questions we have, it is highly formalized. But some universities of the Moscow Region are really working in this direction. So, within the framework of this very VIR, it is possible to organize both the maintenance of memorable places and the search for "correct" samples of weapons from the times of the war, and their restoration, and provision to local administrations for installation in memorable places. We find money for temples, I think we will find money for monuments to fallen heroes. Sergey Kuzhugetovich, AU.
        1. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka April 8 2021 10: 30
          -2
          We find money for temples, I think we will find money for monuments to fallen heroes. Sergey Kuzhugetovich, AU.
          Huge monuments and temples - visible and pathetic! Under this a lot of money can be added. And they don't need quiet, inconspicuous, but VERY important work. You can't get anything from her.
          1. irontom
            irontom April 9 2021 08: 48
            +3
            Another unconscious.
            We went through this in 90, in my small homeland, after the bankruptcy of the collective farm, a beautiful granite monument was put up by the management of the salesmen for the company with the property of the collective farm, only the hype in the press stopped.
            I buried the veteran's grandfather the year before last, 95 years old, a volunteer at 17 in 42, Kursk then liberated Ukraine until he was seriously wounded at the end of 43. Under the salute of a platoon of machine gunners. It hurts, but for the last fifteen years I have nothing to reproach the authorities with.
      4. English tarantas
        English tarantas April 8 2021 10: 03
        +2
        Rotate, return the removed plate, and paint it in its normal color. If only they saw the T-34 at the parade, it looks like Chinese plastic soldiers. Was it that difficult?
      5. Dmitry Trumpcard
        Dmitry Trumpcard April 30 2021 19: 06
        0
        This is a desire to buy a penny for a penny Put something anyhow - milking the checkboxes and report. Do you see the color of the paint? "Form number eight" (c) Surely somewhere nearby there are garbage cans painted with the same paint (it was so in our city). This is the attitude
    2. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk April 7 2021 13: 00
      +13
      Why was a weapon installed on the site of the battery that had nothing to do with that war?

      Well, yes, why did they install the 130mm gun from 1956? It would be better if they took a similar 102-mm gun from the Piercing destroyer, which is in the museum on Malaya Zemlya, and this was given to the museum.
  2. Professor
    Professor April 7 2021 11: 17
    +6
    Roma, what is the fate of these guns?
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 April 7 2021 12: 46
      +5
      I think a 100mm gun from a destroyer, even if not this one, but just the same type can be obtained, it would be desirable. It seems to me that the local order is already affecting here - few people are able to start and complete a major business.
    2. 210ox
      210ox April 8 2021 08: 05
      +4
      I will try to answer. I spoke with a local old man. He was a kid and his parents lived in Dolzhanskaya. He said that the Germans collected all the weapons they had left, whether they were in good order or not, and took them to Germany. On the barbette, you can see that most of the studs are intact, that is, unscrewed and bolts. And on one, maybe more cut with a cutter. This conversation was about eight years ago, just shortly after I first saw this monument after moving to the Kuban.
  3. paul3390
    paul3390 April 7 2021 11: 18
    +18
    In a country where, unfortunately, similar posters are riveted to Victory Day, is it worth it to be surprised at the wrong monuments?

    1. irontom
      irontom April 9 2021 08: 53
      +2
      It is precisely modern girls and boys who are forgetful designers, every year to the 9th such he constantly floats. Therefore, it is necessary to educate and remember.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 April 9 2021 09: 16
        +1
        need to educate

        It is necessary to beat for this. And teach the damned doubles, not the exam to pedal ..
        1. irontom
          irontom April 9 2021 09: 23
          +1
          some especially wise yells Victory must be handed out to the veterans, and local officials are the blood and flesh of our 90s and XNUMXs, the "proud" birds - until they kick, they don't fly.
          As long as we remember and kick it will be good.
  4. vl903
    vl903 April 7 2021 11: 21
    +16
    The question is correctly posed, but:
    1. it is always easier to criticize.
    2.Money is probably taken from the local budget, it is already in deficit (this is not the Moscow budget for which the whole country plows)
    2. the task of arranging is entrusted to the one who came to hand and is forced to do it from what is at hand and to "tomorrow May 9"
    3.To get away from this, you can either transfer all the registered monuments to the newly formed federal service, or by making the mayor's office state institutions and allocating money for the monuments and lowering their demands.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 7 2021 12: 05
      +13
      Quote: vl903
      2. money is probably taken from the local budget, it is already in deficit (

      A well-written inscription will fit into the local budget.
      Quote: vl903
      the task of arrangement is entrusted to the one who came under the arm and forced to do it from what is at hand and by "tomorrow May 9"

      This first of all shows that the one who instructs absolutely does not care about our memory.
      Quote: vl903
      This can be avoided either by transferring all the registered monuments to the newly formed federal service, or by making the mayor's office state institutions and allocating money for the monuments and lowering their demands.

      Are you sure this will work? Officials will not change from this.
      1. Lionnvrsk
        Lionnvrsk April 7 2021 13: 22
        +7
        Quote: Egoza

        This first of all shows that the one who instructs absolutely does not care about our memory.

        Are you sure this will work? Officials will not change from this.

        Well, the one who is entrusted must also have a head!
        For example, when the memorial on Malaya Zemlya was just being organized, a cannon was brought there one of the first and installed on a hillock by the sea. They took tourists there and the aunt-guide told with pathos how the Russian artillerymen shot the Germans from her. And the guys and I got sick of such slogans, because we crawled out all over it, talked about it and saw the brands on the shutter in the form of German eagles. What the aunt was laughing in the eye and reported about. Then the cannon was buried with its barrel in the ground and the tourists were already told that this German gun fired at our landing ships, although it was aimed at Sheskharis. Now this cannon is just in the museum.
        1. vl903
          vl903 April 7 2021 14: 24
          +5
          Well, the guide must have read the leaflet approved by the museum! and museum workers could write at least "our paratroopers fired from a captured cannon at the enemy"
      2. vl903
        vl903 April 7 2021 13: 28
        +4
        "officials" are a convenient faceless excuse. How to explain the small resource of the mechanism - the bolts are to blame. Although more often it is not even the assembler, not the designer, not the technologist, not the efficient manager who makes you do shit, but the owner who puts the director, who hires the manager, who puts the designer and the technologist in cancer, but the assembler is to blame for us !!! to fix the problem, you need to correctly find the cause of the problem, it seems to me.
        1. Lionnvrsk
          Lionnvrsk April 7 2021 15: 19
          +3
          Quote: vl903
          to fix the problem, you need to correctly find the cause of the problem, it seems to me.

          "Therefore, the devastation is not in the closets, but in the heads!" (with) yes
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 April 7 2021 12: 48
      +3
      Quote: vl903
      he is already in short supply

      the local budget is quite normal, the money in the city may not be from Moscow, but there is.
      if the locals hadn’t had a rest for half a year, but worked, it would have been great.
      Unfortunately, there is a lot of corruption.
      1. vl903
        vl903 April 7 2021 13: 38
        +4
        well, as it were, I doubt very much that the city has money and people to stir up the installation of a historical instrument (or take it in a museum with a friend or raise it from under the water), I doubt that they have money that no one needs to support a person who would follow the historicity ... even if they find it won't solve the problem all over the country. but the problem is really all over the country --- we come to school in the evening with a 6 year old son for additional classes. there are several posters on the walls with congratulations for 23 February. dozens of drawings from girls to boys. and he shows me one beautiful drawing - a tiger tank with a star and a red flag. I told him: a girl drew my son, she doesn’t understand tanks and she’s not to blame for the fact that the amers have a flag in every yard and in our school no one distinguishes a tiger from t34. this girl was still lucky, otherwise they would have made Kolya from Urengoy out of her. Although both Kolya and this girl are not to blame, our generation is to blame.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman April 7 2021 16: 18
          +2
          Quote: vl903
          beautiful drawing - a tiger tank with a star and a red flag.

          Maybe it was a trophy?
          1. vl903
            vl903 April 7 2021 16: 48
            0
            he (son) himself suggested this version too)))
        2. yehat2
          yehat2 April 8 2021 09: 36
          0
          Quote: vl903
          well, I doubt very much that the city has money

          the city budget earns not very little for rent, real estate and other goodies
          so much so that after 25 years the construction of 2 schools was laid.
          there is money. And even more so for the monument.
      2. Souchastnik
        Souchastnik April 8 2021 09: 34
        +2
        if the local didn’t have a rest for half a year, but worked

        The idea is not new. It would be nice for everyone to work. Where to work? There is nothing in the resort area except for tourist business. You will be the first to start resenting if a factory with smoking chimneys is installed on the seashore. And the local residents have a problem: to live at home and without work, or to leave for work, leaving their small homeland. What would you do.
        And again, if everyone leaves for Moscow as guards and governesses, who will sell you cold beer and smoked riba in the summer?
  5. WHAT IS
    WHAT IS April 7 2021 11: 23
    +16
    Why doesn't anyone have questions about the illiterate inscriptions on the tablets?

    Because now it is all too often.

    The USE generation in action, reaping the fruits of abandoning the Soviet education system.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 April 7 2021 11: 48
      +7
      The USE generation in action, reaping the fruits of abandoning the Soviet education system.

      Unfortunately, these are only flowers so far .. The fruits will go - when this generation matures and en masse comes to leadership positions .. And new managers - you can't look without tears, and even those who are coming to replace them ..
      1. Souchastnik
        Souchastnik April 8 2021 09: 40
        +3
        you won't look without tears

        Inspired from life.
        The wife was returning from Moscow. In the compartment she came across a young manager. All the way he told me what a good specialist he was, how well he sells cars, and that he was sent to Volgograd for a raise. And when we were passing by the Motherland Monument, he suddenly asked: "What kind of man with a saber is this?"
        Probably 7 years have passed since then. Then they laughed. And now I don't know what to do ...
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 April 7 2021 13: 08
      +3
      Why didn't skiing suit you? would have poked at them.
  6. knn54
    knn54 April 7 2021 11: 25
    +5
    "The memory of the Russian soul is the spirit of Victory."
    Admiral Makarov asked: "Do not forget not only the past wars, but think about a possible war."
    In the middle of the last century, the German magazine "Stern" wrote that it was necessary to make sure that in a future war there would be neither Kosmodemyanskiy nor Matrosovs.
  7. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 7 2021 11: 29
    +8
    Thank you for the article.
    It is clear that there are few specialists, and mostly people who come to the southern city on vacation are not interested in such cruel details. But can we even afford such things?

    The questions asked by Roman are very difficult. My opinion is that if a place is historical, then the approach to it should be with historical accuracy.
    In our town, near the new residential district "Gorky Park", a small park with an alley was laid out, along which military equipment (T-72, BMP-3 and BTR-40) was placed. You can approach the technique, touch it ... It's nice, many are very interested. But ... over time, this technique has become not a monument, but a kind of attribute of the street interior. Children climb on it, teenagers take pictures on it, young people drink something at its wheels in the evenings ... Is it possible to treat military equipment this way? I don't think so. What is the way out? Enclose your armor with a high mesh fence ..? These are all tough questions. It is not enough to deliver, it is not enough to ennoble, it is also necessary to explain, to understand ...
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 April 7 2021 12: 01
      +8
      Yes, there is such a thing. We have tanks around the city just in the courtyards like ... behind a bathhouse. Probably 10 pieces. It's just stupid in the courtyards, even without pedestals. And even more so without explanations and plates.



      In 1014, a commemorative stone was erected in our place for the day of the beginning of WWI. The people were so good. A stone with an absolutely illiterate inscription. The people asked the contractor right on the spot who wrote this? He stupidly replied - sent from the administration, and try to change - approved. In the bathhouse under the brandy, they probably said.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 12: 13
        +4
        And even more so without explanations and plates.

        The landing self-propelled gun was better sent to us in the Artillery Museum, and not put in this condition and this color ... And then there is a "bare-assed Ferdinand" in the Art Museum, there is a "Nona", but the ASU-85 - no! request
    2. Souchastnik
      Souchastnik April 8 2021 09: 47
      +2
      Can this be related to military equipment?

      I think the question should be divided into two parts.
      Military equipment - a monument to the fallen heroes. It should be on a pedestal, with a mandatory fence to avoid disrespectful attitude.
      Military equipment is the object of popularizing the army. It should be accessible so that children can climb on it, take pictures. But with the maximum observance of security measures. I grew up in a military town. There was a real plane in our school yard. The most beloved place for us. One of the main factors that influenced the choice of a profession and my whole life.
    3. igor_sabadah
      igor_sabadah April 28 2021 11: 07
      0
      BMP3, are you sure?
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 28 2021 13: 53
        0
        In the BMP-3? That there is a BMP-3?
        The question is not clear.
  8. Woodman
    Woodman April 7 2021 11: 29
    -1
    Here's a story. With ambivalent feelings and questions.
    Nothing prevents you from contacting the municipality with these questions and getting answers to your questions. There it will be immediately clear whether it is bungling or something else.
    Why do we need such monuments that evoke nothing but pity and surprise?
    These emotions in connection with the designated problem arise among specialists who are "few". Citizens who do not ask such questions have different emotions.
  9. Andrey Korotkov
    Andrey Korotkov April 7 2021 11: 41
    +4
    The formal approach of the local administration (sad) in no way cancels the symbolism of the monument
  10. Niko
    Niko April 7 2021 11: 42
    +9
    Questions, of course, have the right to be. However, Roman's "proprietary" peremptory tone on the topic of errors is surprising .... This is despite the fact that everyone reading VO knows perfectly well that Roman's article is ERROR ON ERROR.
    1. Walking
      Walking April 7 2021 14: 18
      +2
      Quote: Niko
      Questions, of course, have the right to be. However, Roman's "proprietary" peremptory tone on the topic of errors is surprising .... This is despite the fact that everyone reading VO knows perfectly well that Roman's article is ERROR ON ERROR.

      Roman is such a whistle-blower, you can do it better. To write is not to roll bags.
      The city administration made a request to the Ministry of Defense about the allocation of a weapon for the monument to her, and they gave it from a nearby warehouse. The paint on the gun is definitely not the same.
      1. Niko
        Niko April 7 2021 14: 25
        +4
        Quote: Hiking
        Quote: Niko
        Questions, of course, have the right to be. However, Roman's "proprietary" peremptory tone on the topic of errors is surprising .... This is despite the fact that everyone reading VO knows perfectly well that Roman's article is ERROR ON ERROR.

        Roman is such a whistle-blower, you can do it better. To write is not to roll bags.
        The city administration made a request to the Ministry of Defense about the allocation of a weapon for the monument to her, and they gave it from a nearby warehouse. The paint on the gun is definitely not the same.

        In my homeland there was a T-34-85 as a monument to the liberators, as well as in many other places. And if you find fault with the fact that at the time of the liberation of such tanks in the army, most likely we did not have to demolish monuments throughout the country? Although, of course, it's nice that in the city in which I live now, history is treated not only with respect but also with knowledge ... here they are toyat t-34-76 (as many as two pieces next to
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Niko
          Niko April 7 2021 14: 33
          +3
          like that somehow
      2. volodimer
        volodimer April 9 2021 19: 04
        0
        The accuser Roman was in such a hurry that in the text he called the battery 464 twice 646 ...
        After that, somehow blame others for their mistakes ...
        Of course, there are questions about the monument. Paint is yes, even if the ball was painted.
  11. Galleon
    Galleon April 7 2021 11: 43
    +13
    Do we need such a memory?

    I need it. The names of the commanders and sailors are all listed. There is a description of the feat. And the illustrations ... are no strangers. When were we in short supply of stupid rams?
  12. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 11: 52
    +7
    1. Why was a weapon installed at the site of the battery that had nothing to do with that war?

    I cannot assess whether this is right or wrong, but it has been ubiquitous since Soviet times. In general, Belarusians, according to personal impressions, where they do not have equipment from the times of the war, put modern technology.
    Monuments are different ... Just - examples.
    Buinichskoe field, Mogilev. IS-2 and post-war anti-tank gun.

    But in front of them there is a more interesting character! Pz.3 with 50 mm cannon, command variant. By the way, in 2001 the tank was successful ... stole! But, thank God, a few days later they were found in one village. hi

    City of Kingisepp, "Grove of Memory". On the pedestal howitzer arr. 1910/30. The plate says that this gun met the Germans here in 1941. A separate question is why such a color is chosen?

    Ropsha. Here is the KV-1, which was the first to break into the village in the winter of 1944. There are several holes on the tank, the fenders are broken.

    In general, the monuments are different. Usually these are "duty T-34-85" and ZiS-3 cannons. Apparently, they just riveted so much that there was a reserve! hi
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 April 7 2021 12: 23
      -3
      The color is chosen because it attracts attention. And this is necessary. His eye will always catch and attract passing people.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 12: 40
        +3
        The color is chosen because it attracts attention. And this is necessary. His eye will always catch and attract passing people.

        Dmitry, and I thought it would be better to paint in the historical ... what
        The exhibits would like to add a monument to the liberators of Polotsk. We are accustomed to the "ZiS-3 duty divisions", but there are two anti-tank ZiS-2s at the edges. Unusual, amazing! hi
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 April 7 2021 15: 19
          +2
          Historical is certainly good. It is just made in order not to attract attention on the contrary) understand. Do you feel bad from the fact that somewhere a person catches a color with his eye and goes to see? Therefore, our business is in its infancy, because we do not want to understand that we cannot even present a spectacle to our own people. People need to be enthralled. Color is one of the means. Which works. Memory is primarily people. And there is nothing wrong with luring them by all means. The hidden tank is therefore not visible in the bushes) but it should be the other way around
          1. igor_sabadah
            igor_sabadah April 28 2021 11: 09
            0
            And let's put the figure of a naked woman on this cannon or tank, so that it fits exactly ...
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 April 28 2021 13: 15
              0
              The legislation is prohibited. Well, if you don't like it, you can do it the old fashioned way. Maybe someone will come. Only people do not go to what they do not see and do not know. Meanwhile, the issue is easy to close, simply ceasing to live with past technologies.
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 April 7 2021 12: 52
      -1
      and how did it become clear that the T3 commander? from the outside, this can only be determined by the antenna on the hull behind the tower, but it is not.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 12: 58
        +2
        and how did it become clear that the T3 commander? from the outside, this can only be determined by the antenna on the hull behind the tower, but it is not.

        I say this from memory. In August 2001, I was in Mogilev, read a local newspaper - an article about the theft of a tank ... There were these words ...hi But, if you made a mistake, I ask you to forgive generously. drinks
        By the way, here are the materials on this case:
        https://www.kp.by/daily/23075/133719/
        On Monday, the Mogilev District Court began hearing the case of the theft of a German tank during the Second World War, which was part of the Buinichskoye Pole memorial complex. They stole a combat vehicle back in July 2001. The loss was noticed a few days later. The watchman just threw up his hands: "I thought he was taken for restoration." At this time, the construction of the memorial was in full swing. The tank could not move on its own. All that was left of it was the frame and nothing of the filling. They assembled the car from pieces fished out from the local swamp.
        The picture of the theft looked something like this. In one of the Mogilev transport organizations, the hijacker hired a crane and a trailer. I put a combat vehicle, the weight of which in combat equipment is almost 20 tons, and in our case, a little less, and took it away.
        A week later, the tank was found in one of the courtyards of the village of Ermolovichi, Belynichi district. A local resident, at the request of the hijacker, regularly looked after the tank. From the village courtyard no one has stolen a rarity of the war during this time.

        Read on WWW.KP.BY: https://www.kp.by/daily/23075/133719/

        And in the next issue of the newspaper, when the tank was found, it was said approximately the following: they say, comrades with a tank on a trailer came to a local peyzanin and asked to hold him in the barn for a while. They said that they would shoot a film, and soon they would bring two more tanks and an airplane ... yes
        I remember this moment for sure! laughing
        It's in the spirit of the movie "Old Robbers"! good
        - What are you carrying?
        - A painting by Rembrandt.
        - And where to?
        - For restoration!
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 April 7 2021 13: 05
          -1
          I'm not without pretensions. I was just curious how the tank was identified.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 13: 11
            +2
            I'm not without pretensions. I was just curious how the tank was identified.

            The phrase about the commander appeared in the newspaper ... recourse
            But the photo.
            https://myauu.livejournal.com/252136.html
            I'm not a tank specialist, alas. I can discern the brands, but the nuances - yes, thank you. I could be wrong!
            Here's another photo of this car:
            https://deletant.livejournal.com/40391.html
            It's interesting that the LJ authors disagree about modifying the tank ... But, probably, if the 50mm cannon, then it's the PzKpfw III Ausf. G?
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 April 7 2021 13: 43
              +2
              there are several important signs -
              judging by them, this is one of the PzIIIF
              - the model h began to weld on additional. armor, and the 50mm gun began to be installed from the summer of 40, starting with F and G. Also, the "Rommel box" behind the turret is not visible - it appeared on the G model
              another sign - the turret mask on the outside - this is also typical for the T3F with a 50mm gun
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 7 2021 13: 46
        +3
        Quote: yehat2
        from the outside, this can only be determined by the antenna on the hull behind the tower, but it is not.

        Not only. In the Pz Bfwg III, instead of a course machine gun, to the right of the gun, there should be a PN like a mechanic drive, not an MG. And where does the muzzle brake come from on the KVK39?
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 April 7 2021 13: 49
          +1
          t3f and g were produced rather crumpled, in different configurations
          could well have put another machine gun.
          But I cannot explain the muzzle brake. It just shouldn't be.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 7 2021 13: 55
            +1
            Quote: yehat2
            But I cannot explain the muzzle brake. It just shouldn't be.

            No, well, KVK39 L60 with a brake is possible. But the "cougar", not the "troika". But damn, this is not a brake, but in general it is not clear what.
    3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 7 2021 13: 34
      0
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      Pz.3 with 50 mm cannon, command variant.

      Why "commander's"? A machine gun in a ball mount is available, there are no antennas. And what a weird little fluff he has?
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 13: 36
        +1
        Why "commander's"? A machine gun in a ball mount is available, there are no antennas. And what a weird little fluff he has?

        Check out my correspondence with the esteemed yehat2. If I'm wrong, I admit. I could have been mistaken, although I'm not complaining about memory. drinks I gave two more links to LJ-shki about the photo. I look forward to your opinion! drinks
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 April 7 2021 13: 45
        0
        50mm with 42 extensions
        between the summer of 40 and the spring of 42, only this was installed.
        obsolete T3 and T4 were often transferred to the commander's units, so that their weak security would have less impact
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 7 2021 14: 08
          0
          Quote: yehat2
          50mm with 42 extensions

          What does this mean?
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 April 7 2021 15: 02
            0
            42 caliber barrel extension
            Hitler insisted that the 40mm L50 be installed back in 60
            but she was ready only in 42
  13. Radikal
    Radikal April 7 2021 12: 03
    +3

    Of course, it's great that the place where the 646 battery fought for two days remained untouched, it is being looked after. But the approach itself is outraged. Of course, not the level of the Nazis on the posters for Victory Day or February 23, but still.
    I understand and share the author's anger and concern, but I repeat what I sometimes write in such cases, that imitation and profanation are the pillars on which everything (for now) rests in modern Russia. hi
  14. sergo1914
    sergo1914 April 7 2021 12: 12
    +7
    There is a thought. Place a remake of the OB-3 armored platform next to the local museum. The most massive armored train. The originals have not survived, but the piece is legendary. They built it in the shortest possible time, practically handicraft. Who is in that much. No one is alike. The location of machine gun nests, turrets, armor, hatches ... Everything is different. But they fought, reached Berlin, guarded Potsdam.
    We found the first act of acceptance in TsAMO well. When the division was formed, it was drawn up. There is a chronicle, photos, drawings. We found an old 20-ton cargo platform at the factory. You can weld a body from sheets, make hatches, a rotating tower. Push the old cannon in. Vertical / horizontal guidance. Chop the imitation bolts. What next? Experts will walk and spit through their lips - the bolts are not real, the gun is not the same, the steps are not the same, the hitch is not correct ... And, yes, the paint is not according to RAL. So what? Not to do? Or make them see how and on what their ancestors fought. There, the maximum height in the building is 1,6 meters. You can only stand in the tower. Until you climb in, you will not understand how it feels.
    1. frog
      frog April 7 2021 14: 36
      +2
      He was like that. The entire Union stood in the ide of the museum. Now only the armored locomotive remains. The rest of Russian Railways handed over to the metal ... And it was quite a decent reconstruction ...
  15. Free wind
    Free wind April 7 2021 12: 18
    +1
    And where to get real guns and other equipment, but we have not had them for a long time.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 7 2021 14: 21
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      And where to get real guns and other equipment, but we have not had them for a long time.

      Order a model studio.
    2. sergo1914
      sergo1914 April 7 2021 14: 47
      +3
      Quote: Free Wind
      And where to get real guns and other equipment, but we have not had them for a long time.


      This stuff we have to hell. I think there are trunks from the time of Borodino somewhere in the grease. And as for the Soviet period and WWI ...
  16. sleeve
    sleeve April 7 2021 12: 33
    +1
    But where is our ONF? Let the expert committee draw up and "inspect" the monuments for historical relevance. And will draw up an all-Russian act. Separately, military equipment, separately the correspondence of art objects. And after all, in a hundred or fifty years, there will even be no one to point out the "nuances". What is not a global work. For example, and there is a date for which to "scan" everything (including museums). 2025 year. There will be enough people there. So as not to rush around, you can "send" the activists with removable devices. They shot the object in detail, sent it to the committee.
  17. Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver April 7 2021 12: 50
    +9
    Do we need such a story at all?

    Roman doesn't need a navy. A novel doesn't need a story. Is it age-related?
    Roman did not even think that he had read the story about the 464th battery only because he stumbled upon this memorial. The monument has fulfilled its function - he recalled. The novel has fulfilled its ...
    Of course, it is necessary to approach such things as the creation of this memorial - as responsibly as possible. But not approaching at all is never an option.

    Illiteracy is humiliating

    I am glad that you realize this. Let's start.
    Exercise 1, place the punctuation marks correctly:

    The destroyer is conditional, because when it was laid ...

    Yes, today you can easily say, “Who cares, barbet or barbet?”.

    By the way, the color, to put it mildly, is not the same ...

    etc.

    We will move on to Exercise 2, stylistic mistakes, after we have mastered Exercise 1 properly.

    Well, and the most important question: do we need such an article at all? Blinded "on the knee", stretched in the style of "owls on the globe"?
    It is clear that there are not many specialists, and mostly people who come to the topvar to rest are not interested in such cruel details. But can we even afford such things?
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 April 7 2021 14: 52
      +6
      Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Do we need such a story at all?

      Roman doesn't need a navy. A novel doesn't need a story. Is it age-related?
      Roman did not even think that he had read the story about the 464th battery only because he stumbled upon this memorial.


      How ... evil you are. Plus with syntax and punctuation. Yes to the vulnerable parts of the body. It hurts.
      1. volodimer
        volodimer April 9 2021 19: 09
        0
        And the fact that the 464th battery is twice named 646th? It's like this. repeat
        It is clear that there are few specialists, and mostly people who come to the southern city on vacation are not interested in such cruel details. But can we even afford such things?
  18. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 7 2021 14: 08
    +3
    Where the hell is there such a weakness for this stupid emerald color ????
    1. frog
      frog April 7 2021 14: 31
      +3
      Whichever one was singled out, that one was painted. Okay, not pink ...
    2. sergo1914
      sergo1914 April 7 2021 14: 54
      +3
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Where the hell is there such a weakness for this stupid emerald color ????


      Which one is emerald green? Something between menthol and neon green.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 7 2021 15: 29
        +2
        Which one is emerald green? Something between menthol and neon green.

        There is also celadon or light green! request
  19. Charlie
    Charlie April 7 2021 17: 52
    -1
    The chronology of those events is interesting. On the morning of August 30, the Germans left Gostagaevskaya in the direction of Anapa. We were moving as part of a column, suddenly came under fire from a battery, suffered terrible losses, and returned back to Gostagaevskaya. We sat there for the day, sat for the night, did nothing, apparently, the next day they resumed the march to Anapa again. Apparently they forgot that yesterday they had to be hot on this site. Yes, the dog is with her, with this battery, give Anapa. Germans that such fools were, as they are shown in films? Maybe you should slightly adjust the plot about that fight? The battery sent 900 people to the next world? Isn't it too much? The Germans apparently walked in full-length chains on this battery. Who did this counting of the killed and how, I wonder.
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver April 9 2021 02: 03
      +1
      It is said in Russian: the first day the Germans marched in a column. Probably, the Fritzes did not yet have data on a battery of 130-mm guns capable of reaching them.
      And then I will ask you your own question:
      Quote: Charlie
      Germans that such fools

      Why did they have to march in a column again on the second day? Where did you see this from the author? Do you think they were not taught to attack in dispersed order? Moreover, the mountainous terrain favored coverage and detour.

      For the destroyed fascists. For a battery of such guns, from a dominant height overlooking a significant section of the road, it is quite possible to fill 900 frags on that road.
  20. Undecim
    Undecim April 7 2021 18: 02
    +7
    And the most important question: do we need such a story at all? Blinded "on the knee", stretched in the style of "owl on the globe"?
    The question is, of course, correct. The truth, given the author's articles, in which there are a lot of errors, looks somewhat ambiguous. But nonetheless. Taking into account the specifics of the site at the end of the article, a proposal on how to fix the situation and install the "right tool" would look very harmonious.
    This is difficult, but it can be found.


    Stands on the former Finnish coastal battery on the Isokari island in the Gulf of Bothnia.
    Judging by the appearance, the Finns do not really need a gun.
    True, the Finns have altered it somewhat. bored out to 105 mm and installed a muzzle brake. But this is insignificant, it will not be difficult to restore the previous appearance.
    So you can contact the Kustavi municipality with a request. What if they give it back. Or they will sell it. There are thousands of turbopatriots on the website, can’t we collect the required amount. It is unlikely that the Finns will break the price.
    And on the monument restored in Anapa, it will be possible to install a memorial plaque. For example - "The weapon was purchased and installed on the initiative and at the expense of the" Military Review "website.
  21. bbss
    bbss April 7 2021 18: 59
    +3
    Is it possible to find a 102 mm gun at the Obukhov plant now? I doubt it ... As for the color. For many years, a T-34-85 stood (and still stands) in front of the building of the Tushino regional executive committee in Moscow. They painted it in light green, then in the fence green. It seems that he was never painted with the correct color scheme. So bureaucrats have always been bureaucrats ...
    1. Undecim
      Undecim April 7 2021 20: 15
      +4
      Is it possible to find a 102 mm gun at the Obukhov plant now? I doubt it ...
      Do not doubt. I wrote above where to find.
  22. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 April 7 2021 20: 36
    +1
    Those who do not remember their story, are doomed to repeat it ... I do not remember who said-BUT ... not in the eyebrow, but in the eye
  23. Borvox
    Borvox April 7 2021 20: 39
    0
    And what do we want if there is no education ... Immediately a letter to the administration to prevent the distortion of history. On another it is impossible.
  24. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener April 8 2021 09: 10
    +3
    The author got to the bottom of the monument. You see the weapon of the wrong system. For me, this is already overkill.
  25. Iskor Iskor
    Iskor Iskor April 8 2021 09: 15
    0
    I can agree that it is difficult to find exactly what was in this place. But in the city of Ramenskoye, for example, a monument was erected to the units and formations that were formed in the city. Well, to make the inscriptions look beautiful, the "guards" was removed in all names. So it turned out that the monument was erected to brigades and divisions, which, not only in the city, but even in the Moscow Military District, have never been, and some were not even in nature. But for several years they have been going to him, pretentious speeches speak of memory
  26. Grossvater
    Grossvater April 8 2021 10: 47
    +2
    Well, it's hard to find 4 "/ 60 now. You can put whatever you have, only the plate must be correct.
    As for what they climb? Yes, let them climb. In Bovington, I generally climbed inside the English diamond. Interesting!
    The money for the correct plate is exactly the same as for the wrong one; it is not a problem to find fans of military history in the city at all. Anyone out of pure interest will tell you how it should be right!
  27. Evgenii Xolod
    Evgenii Xolod April 8 2021 11: 03
    +3
    Do you know where to get the weapon of that time? Monuments are erected, children are told and shown (children have much better visual memory), mistakes in spelling, but they need to be corrected. But everything else is probably not worth touching, if only because there are not so many 34 of the first days of the war, they burned down with their crews and then melted down into other t 34, in order to burn again and get to be melted down and melted down to enter Berlin. It's the same with the guns ..... Here the spears broke because of Katyusha, they say, the installation is 54 years old How is it, but for a child it is Katyusha and he will not understand the difference in a slightly different gun carriage, rails and sights, for him it will be Katyusha ...
  28. Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 8 2021 12: 13
    +1
    Quote: 210ox
    Yes, that's it. Here Roman is wrong. I visit this place many times, passing by from Gorky towards the street. Lermontov. This is a good monument. Well, and the fact that this weapon is clearly later years, then what's the difference?

    I agree, this is better than just a plaque. We are not shocked that at parades we see post-war T-34s, especially of Czech production.
  29. Konnick
    Konnick April 8 2021 12: 29
    +1
    When I was at Malakhov Kurgan, I did not like the fact that it was completely turned into a forest park, most of the trees were planted with signs, there is even from the Sevastopol customs.
    The French, I think they did the right thing with the village of Oradour-sur-glane.
    From Wikipedia -
    On the morning of June 10, the 1st battalion of the Der Führer regiment under the command of the Hauptsturmführer Kahn surrounded the village, residents were ordered to gather in the center of the village, after which the SS men took away all the men and drove the women and children to church.

    The men were taken to the sheds, where they began to be shot from machine guns, trying to beat them in the legs. After that, they were doused with a combustible mixture and set on fire. Only five men managed to escape, 197 people were killed. After that, a powerful incendiary device was installed in the church, after it worked, the SS men began to shoot at women and children who were trying to escape from the fire. Only one woman managed to survive; 240 women and 205 children were killed. Another group of 20 people managed to escape in the morning, when the SS men had not yet managed to surround the village.

    The village was completely destroyed. As it later turned out, the day before the arrival of the German battalion, Helmut Kempfe was indeed captured, and at night the partisans executed him and burned his corpse.

    The French did not begin to restore the village after the war, they left it in the same form in 1944, turning it into a kind of memorial



  30. tolancop
    tolancop April 8 2021 15: 06
    +4
    "... 1. Why was a weapon installed at the site of the battery that had nothing to do with that war? ..."
    Probably because there is simply nowhere to take the original ... The version with a replica-replica would hardly have been better.

    "... 2. Why did they remove the plaque telling about what kind of weapon it was? Apparently, at today's level of historical" enlightenment ", just a cannon with a barrel and painted green is enough? .. "
    If this tool has its own history, then it would be better to leave it in its place, and put something else in THIS place. With color, of course, a disgrace to put it mildly ..

    "... 3. Why does no one have questions about the illiterate inscriptions on the tablets? Okay, the barrel of the antiamphibious gun looking towards the sea is normal. But the guns of the 646 battery were looking in the completely opposite direction ...."
    From my point of view, illiteracy on museum plaques is unacceptable. If desired, I think it was quite possible to get the advice of a competent person. With the direction of the barrel, I think, it is still not so simple. The composition must be, the monument must be "watchable". I cannot judge how the monument with the breech looking outward would look, but I still think it’s not very good.

    "... Well, and the most important question: do we need such a story at all? Blinded on the knee, stretched in the style of an owl on a globe?"
    I need it. And this too. With minor and minor mistakes. The existing drawbacks of this object, IMHO, are a mere trifle compared to the stormgower at the Kalashnikov monument.

    About 5 years ago, a monument to the tankmen who defended Moscow was erected in my homeland. T-34-85, which, in principle, could not be there. But he, as they say, was barely found in some wilderness and was transported across half the country. I think that some inauthenticity of the technique used in the monument is a small sin. Exception: if the monument, say specifically to the ZiS-3 cannon, but is M-30, then it is unacceptable.
    And if a monument to tankmen, it doesn't matter that the installed tank does not quite correspond to the time.
    I may be wrong, but this is my opinion.
  31. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 April 8 2021 16: 31
    0
    Roman, everything is elementary. There was a command: to install the weapon as a monument.
    They took the first thing they came across on the "unhooked" set. And the higher authorities have no time to check the execution
    1. your1970
      your1970 April 8 2021 17: 39
      0
      Quote: Astra wild2
      There was a command: to install the weapon as a monument.
      They took the first thing they came across on the "unhooked" set.

      Oh yeah....
      Turn on ANY (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), absolutely any, Soviet film about the war. What do we see there? That's right - covered with plywood like "German tanks" ...
      There were no consultants in 1950-60-70? Yes, complete - for example, "They fought for the Motherland", there were even actors in the war (Nikulin, Bondarchuk, Smoktunovsky, Vanin) and ... where did THIS come from?


      Also on "unhook" done ???
      1. irontom
        irontom April 9 2021 09: 09
        +2
        Because it's expensive, watch Western films of that time, the same crap, Belmondo in the famous film goes to the place of the German troika on the AMX-13. The topic of tanks in Soviet cinema has been analyzed more than once on specialized sites, until the beginning of the 60s, until the beginning of the 44s, they used real German tanks at Mosfilm, but, alas, they developed a resource, then they used T-XNUMX with plywood and other various dummy options out of savings. So in the film "The Living and the Dead" by Simonov there were real fours, the book and the film itself are very strong.
        And that the "Ballad of a Soldier" due to the fact that Alyosha Skvortsov knocked out plywood tanks from a T-44, did not become less grasping from this.
        But modern, crafts, and computer graphics, and technology identical to the real one, even the flying I-15 I-16 in one of the series about pilots (for deffochek), as a result, a complete UG.
        1. your1970
          your1970 April 9 2021 09: 49
          0
          Quote: irontom
          from this did not become less clinging to the soul.

          Quote: irontom
          So in the film "The Living and the Dead" by Simonov there were real fours, the book and the film itself are very strong.

          So what am I talking about ???? !!!!!!
          If it is possible to slap German tanks out of modern ones in the cinema - and this is normal, then why not - to make a monument from the wrong weapon ??? !!!
          That is, the monument must be strictly authentic, but if in the cinema on Khalkhin-Gol, we see Japanese MTLB lol are coming - is this the norm? If only it would catch ??
          The monument will be seen by several million in 50 years, Liberation
          and They fought for their homeland, the whole country looked many times - where is the impact higher?
      2. aglet
        aglet April 9 2021 09: 13
        0
        and then there were many tigers at Mosfilm, in the storerooms, t4, t3? not to mention the Czechs? and completely disguising the T55, or later, as a German is extremely difficult, expensive and time-consuming. and still, a specialist can easily determine, it's better to use Photoshop, but in moderation
      3. Chack wessel
        Chack wessel 11 May 2021 07: 47
        +1
        Quote: your1970
        We include ANY (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), absolutely any, Soviet film about the war. What do we see there? That's right - covered with plywood like "German tanks" ...

        We take the German film "The Bridge", and we notice the same certain caterpillar devices covered with plywood.
        ... Strange as it may seem, but after the fall of the 3rd Reich, the production of spare parts for German tanks (and not only German ones) was discontinued. And making spare parts on the knee is sooooo expensive, and not always possible. Therefore, modern tanks and armored personnel carriers have to play the role of Panthers, Tigers and Ganomagov.
        1. your1970
          your1970 11 May 2021 09: 22
          0
          Quote: Chack Wessel
          Strange as it may seem, but after the fall of the 3rd Reich, the production of spare parts for German tanks (and not only German ones) was discontinued.

          Yeah ... Only supply depots remained ... As well as a bunch of abandoned serviceable tanks ...
          Who prevented from leaving hundreds of tanks and guns for the cinema from the floor ?????

          Well, okay - like scrap metal ..
          Who prevented leaving PO-2 for museums ??? A frenzied series, a sign of the era, an airplane - a station wagon, zero resources - sticks and rags, as a result - in the country there are 0 (zero !!!) ...
          And so on all - for ALL models of technology during the war ... They stuck a massive T-34-85 on the pedestals - for reporting .. Fast, cheap, cheerful ... But the predecessors for the whole country - 1-2-3 pieces. Although BT, for example, in the Far East and in the 1950s were still ..
          Sawed for metal in the USSR ...

          And now they are groaning - ah the pin is inauthentic, ah the shape of the rivets is not the same, ah the truck is not native ...

          In the Caucasus, the duty tractor on a track repair train (I do not remember which railway) works ... Sherman !!!! Naturally without a tower ...
          and without the supply of spare parts from the USA, by the way ... The production was stopped for 70 years ... But it works ...
  32. Roman Pastukhov
    Roman Pastukhov April 9 2021 09: 33
    0
    Not "gunners" of the destroyer, but gunners, they are naval gunners.
  33. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 April 9 2021 09: 53
    -1
    Auto, you are encroaching on the sacred. Federal money can only be spent by firms owned by officials and deputies. However, there are no other firms left in Russia, since there is no money in the country, except for federal ones. Banks give loans at a blocking interest, that is, if you took out a loan for a business, you went bankrupt.
    Since the deputies are just thieves, and the officials are thieves with a cover, their firms are organized as thieves. That is, not for work. Here everything is simple, a person or a skilled worker, or a skilled thief. Two in one does not fit, it is simply impossible. Examples of "skillful business executives" who "harmlessly steal" while at the same time doing miracles of production always, under all conditions, turn out to be a bluff. Miracles are always the result of the fact that a "skilled business executive" begged them from the budget or took them away from someone, destroying another sucker who tried to work.
    In general, rejoice, author, that there is not a "Coalition of SV" standing there, and not a pile of pipes, carelessly welded together. I wonder if people were even paid for laying the tiles? Or, as always, thrown?
  34. Charlie
    Charlie April 9 2021 11: 28
    0
    Quote: Boris ⁣ Shaver
    It is said in Russian: the first day the Germans marched in a column. Probably, the Fritzes did not yet have data on a battery of 130-mm guns capable of reaching them.
    And then I will ask you your own question:
    Quote: Charlie
    Germans that such fools

    Why did they have to march in a column again on the second day? Where did you see this from the author? Do you think they were not taught to attack in dispersed order? Moreover, the mountainous terrain favored coverage and detour.

    For the destroyed fascists. For a battery of such guns, from a dominant height overlooking a significant section of the road, it is quite possible to fill 900 frags on that road.

    In Russian it is said: 102 mm. The hundred and thirty were on the sevens. On "Noviks" 102 mm. I didn’t say that on the second day the Germans were in a column. Yes, there was a fight, of course. They fought desperately, heroically. Nobody argues. How long can a detected battery last? Moreover, she could not change her position. Moreover, these guns seem to have no shields to protect against shrapnel. As on the "Varyag". I want to say that it was different, perhaps, than it was officially described. Yes, 900 people is too much. Wouldn't have piled up the battery so much
  35. staer-62
    staer-62 April 10 2021 15: 53
    0
    A good article, in that the author's soul hurts and I want to do my bit. Perhaps if there are more such publications, the memorial will become closer to those times. So far, I think, we must pay tribute to those who arranged everything so beautifully. Do not stop, continue to work, you may find more appropriate to that time. In the meantime, and so good, better than Bandera and Hitler's henchmen Tatar
  36. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 April 11 2021 09: 06
    0
    The story should be true, especially since in this case there really was a feat and everything that was due to it. And it so happened that a small lie gives rise to big doubts. It's just a time bomb.
  37. xomaNN
    xomaNN April 11 2021 10: 26
    0
    "The artillerymen. Stalin gave the order ..." As in a song from Soviet times. It was hardly possible to find an authentic weapon. So, and this is not bad, of course, indicate on the plate the actual type of weapon, year, etc. But when instead of khaki they paint in a cheerful green color, it jars. am
    Often tanks on monuments guard the same.
  38. Bryanskiy_Volk
    Bryanskiy_Volk April 11 2021 19: 19
    0
    Last time, Mr. Skomorokhov, I remember, in the "wrong" collector of painted tanks, spotted a whole harmful and sabotage activity of museum workers. Moreover, in the accusatory style of the 37-year-old, he did not restrain himself. This time, at least it was done without it - thanks already hi
  39. Evgeny Malyshko
    Evgeny Malyshko April 18 2021 21: 26
    0
    What is provincial Anapa! Practically in the center of Petrograd, on Gorokhovaya in the Museum of Political Police in Russia, the first photo that comes across contains two of the three depicted faces mixed up. And no one cares.
  40. Chack wessel
    Chack wessel April 19 2021 06: 02
    0
    Quote: Elektron34
    To understand why this is the case, you just need to note for yourself the fact - Victory Day began to be celebrated only 20 years later. Accordingly, for 20 years in the country, no one set the task of living in the past and artificially implanting memory about it - the country was developing, moving forward, living tomorrow, dreamed of space ...


    In which country did Victory Day begin to be celebrated only 20 years later?
    1. igor_sabadah
      igor_sabadah April 28 2021 11: 15
      0
      In the USSR after 1947, May 9 shocked the status of a public holiday and returned this status to him only under Brezhnev
      1. Chack wessel
        Chack wessel 11 May 2021 07: 34
        0
        Quote: igor_sabadah
        In the USSR after 1947, May 9 shocked the status of a public holiday and returned this status to him only under Brezhnev

        Stop. First, the following was stated: "To understand why this is the case, you just need to note for yourself the fact - Victory Day began to be celebrated only 20 years later."
        It says that in the USSR Victory Day was not celebrated at all, and not whether it was a day off or not ... A holiday does not have to be a day off.
  41. Andycomm
    Andycomm April 20 2021 19: 34
    0
    But this is correct! This nasty Rashka can be defeated only from within. And it is necessary to start with the devaluation, and then the direct, uh, correct correction of the historical memory of these Raskists!
    So we will win! (c) A. Navalny
  42. Hans
    Hans 2 May 2021 19: 26
    0
    That's what there are definitely no questions for, so it is for the conformity of the model of the tool. Let's remember what our grandfathers told us: after the war there was no need for monuments, because direct eyewitnesses of the events were alive, and these eyewitnesses more often wanted to forget the war than to erect monuments to it. But there was an urgent need to rebuild the country. And the value of old weapons was equal to the value of the metal from which they were made. The same naval gun could serve as a source of resources for a dozen trucks in which there was an acute shortage. Resources that no longer need to be mined and processed. Moreover, if we are talking about an obviously outdated weapon built before the revolution.
    And where to put it then? The same steam locomotive, retired from service, can be transferred to the plant for shunting work, or, at worst, converted into a boiler room. Medium tanks were used to make tractors and engineering vehicles that served in the army and the national economy for many years. And where to adapt the rest? Just store until needed? So this also requires resources: warehouse space and rare, but obligatory maintenance. These resources, if the weapons were really valuable, it was more logical to use for more modern systems, potentially useful for the country's defense. So it turned out that the widest range of equipment was irretrievably lost.
    Moreover, the attitude to technology then, contrary to popular belief, was less reverent than today: people and their actions remained in the memory, and not iron, which served only as a tool for their accomplishments. When they wanted to celebrate something, they most often changed the names of the streets, erected memorial plaques on memorial places ...
    When the concept changed, weapons became just a symbol, not a monument to themselves. So, for example, near Leningrad, at the place of the famous battle of Zinovy ​​Kolobanov, he was erected on the IS-2 pedestal. There were simply no authentic KV-1s, similar to Kolobanov's real car, by that time (let me remind you: his platoon received their cars in August 1941, and these were modifications with additional shielding). There were even just a few similar ones. What's the difference? Even Zinovy ​​Grigorievich himself agreed with this (especially since he ended the war on the IS-2). If the veterans themselves, whose feat is reflected in the monuments, were quite satisfied with this situation, then why arrange a showdown for their descendants?
    The main thing is that memory is preserved (and here I agree with the author of the article, pointing out errors in the tablets and explanations, as well as the disdainful attitude of a number of officials to the historical inconsistency), and its materialized images were kept in proper form.
    PS: The color of the gun is really ... specific. However, now it is found everywhere. For example, military monuments in St. Petersburg have been painted in the same color for a long time. An extremely ambiguous impression.
  43. aba
    aba 4 May 2021 13: 09
    0
    The main thing is that the money was divided, and more is already an overkill according to the concept of modern officials
  44. Angry sailor
    Angry sailor 9 May 2021 01: 03
    0
    Heavy. I recently began to think about all this and came to sad conclusions. But do the inhabitants of the city really know nothing ?! How so!?!
  45. Andycomm
    Andycomm 12 May 2021 14: 12
    0
    You, YOU, dear, with all your free-loving, bright-eyed people, do not need any memory at all! Unless to remember where grants are issued and where the closest commandant's office of universal human liberators has settled.
    The ability to dig a distress ..., um, utilization ditches for the wrong people and then bury them in - will come by itself
  46. Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 13 May 2021 08: 02
    0
    Quote: your1970
    Yeah ... Only supply depots remained ... As well as a bunch of abandoned serviceable tanks ...
    Who prevented from leaving hundreds of tanks and guns for the cinema from the floor ?????

    And they were at first. In the early films, three-and-fours, fours, and even cattencrads flashed every now and then. But, alas, nothing lasts forever under the Moon. The equipment wears out, but there are no spare parts. And it is expensive to create warehouses with spare parts, the equipment itself, to keep service personnel. It is VERY expensive ... Why is the USA a rich country, and then there in the movies flashed "Shermans" and M3 armored personnel carriers with swastikas.
    ... However, I agree with many things you said. The fact that at one time they did not leave little equipment for museums is very bad.
    1. Frank Muller
      Frank Muller 21 May 2021 01: 06
      0
      Eminent filmmakers remembered about military equipment corresponding to the historical events of the Second World War reflected in the cinema right away, even during the war. A familiar cinematic figure told me about this half a century ago, as well as the fact that such a wise undertaking was prevented at first by the military - economic confusion, then by the bureaucracy and, finally, the main "irresistible" excuse (concerning captured weapons): we will not allow glorifying the enemy military technology, its place is in the remelting - the country needs metal to restore its industry. At first, Soviet military equipment was borrowed from military post-war units, and then, during rearmament, they simply did not take care of it in time. Why are there weapons! Only thanks to Romm, who directed "Ordinary Fascism", was it possible to preserve the German war newsreel, many of which still give the impression of having not been shown before. But there was an official order to destroy kilometers of visual film evidence filmed by enemy operators!