Military Review

Putin's opinion: in whose hands is the solution to Russia's migration problems?

232
After quite harsh statements by the Krasnodar governor Tkachev about the migration problems of the region he is in charge, a rather powerful negative wave has arisen in Russia about such statements of an official of such high rank. Recall that Alexander Tkachev expressed in the spirit that in the Krasnodar Territory it is time to create special Cossack guards who will oppose the migration of residents of the North Caucasian republics and "squeeze" representatives of Caucasian nationalities from the Kuban. This original initiative of Tkachev led to the fact that the deputy Abdulatipov decided to prepare a bill regulating the responsibility (up to the criminal) of regional leaders for the statements of a nationalistic nature.

After the statements of Tkachev and the evaluation of these statements by Abdulatipov, as usual, two camps managed to form. The first camp was made up of supporters of the idea of ​​the governor of Krasnodar Region, who are concerned about the problems of uncontrolled migration in the territory of the Russian Federation, and the second camp was joined by people who believe that statements like those made by Alexander Tkachev in Russia can lead to cruel inter-ethnic confrontation.

In connection with the rather aggravated situation, the meeting of the Presidential Council in the capital of Mordovia looked particularly interesting. Since the council had presidential status, Vladimir Putin took the floor on it. In his opinion, in order to eliminate inter-ethnic tensions, it is necessary to solve the problem of corruption and bias of state bodies, which, in particular, include regional authorities and law enforcement agencies. Whether there was a hint here directly at the governor Tkachev, or Putin decided to hook on the problem in general, it is not easy to say, but the fact is that the president publicly stated the roots of any interethnic and interfaith confrontation in Russia. Whatever the supporters of the idea of ​​the complex relations of individual nations of the country as such, try to make, but in the first place is precisely the corruption component of the bureaucratic activity. It is obvious that the “gilded pen” of a single official can simply turn a blind eye to the uncontrolled migration in the region, which subsequently gives rise not only to economic problems, but also problems on national and religious grounds.

In his speech, Putin spoke about the fact that, without removing responsibility from the regional and federal authorities, it is necessary to realize the fact that the immigrants often ignore the traditions of the region in which these immigrants were forced to come for one reason or another. It often happens that the national minority eventually turns into a powerful enough force that not only does not intend to integrate into the local public field, but also with all its forces tries to impose traditions that are frankly alien to the local population. In this regard, Putin called for specifying the tasks for the federal government and regional authorities to create a single network of so-called adaptation courses, not only for labor migrants, but also for their family members. However, in order for these initiatives not to appear as a kind of tool to hinder the desire of many immigrants to live and work in one or another Russian territory, Putin called for a big public discussion that should lead to the development of a national policy strategy. For Russia, in which representatives of the most diverse ethnic groups live, the issue of interethnic interaction can be considered one of the main ones in state policy.

Putin raised the issue of migration to the Russian Federation of citizens of foreign countries. According to him, this year Russia ranked second in the world (after the United States) in the number of migrants from other countries. Mostly, those arriving at work or permanent residence are citizens of the former Soviet Republics. If you believe the official statistics of the Federal Migration Service (and experts believe that these figures are only the upper part of a huge iceberg), today there are about 9,2 million migrants living on a permanent basis in Russia, while no more than 15% of them work legally. More than 3,7 millions of the specified total number of migrants, entering Russia, do not at all indicate labor activity as their main goal. But if these people come to the country not to search for legal earnings, then why? - Is it really the so-called "tourists with prolongation" - it is hard to believe ...

Over the past year, about 14 of millions of citizens of foreign countries entered the Russian Federation, about 77% of whom are citizens of CIS countries. The greatest representation here are citizens of Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Moldova, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and Uzbekistan. According to one of the surveys conducted, the greatest desire to adapt to the traditions of the region in which they come, was expressed by citizens of the Central Asian republics. However, to express the desire to adapt is one thing, but to set yourself up for real adaptation is quite another.

That is why it is time to start addressing migration issues in Russia today. In this case, without a full-fledged public discussion here is clearly not enough. If you give everything at the mercy of officials of different levels, then the task may not come to a complete solution, but it will turn out to be just skillfully hidden behind a corruption screen.
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  1. Dmitriy69
    Dmitriy69 27 August 2012 08: 11
    +21
    In general, it is somehow strange to equalize the citizens of Russia, even though not Russians and citizens of other states. Or the author does not catch the difference?
    1. INTER
      INTER 27 August 2012 08: 19
      +6
      Well, and I think that the state will put things in order in the implementation of federal laws throughout the federation.
    2. bachast
      bachast 27 August 2012 08: 26
      0
      And what about the moment in the article? Isn't that what Putin said?
      Putin touched on the issue and migration of foreign citizens to the Russian Federation
      It’s not clear who is equalizing whom.
      1. Dmitriy69
        Dmitriy69 27 August 2012 08: 54
        +3
        I explain: the article begins with the problems of internal migration and, without any transition, continues with a discussion of external migration
        1. bachast
          bachast 27 August 2012 09: 25
          +2
          Well, this is Alexey’s style. Well, if we are talking about migration issues, there isn’t a hint of generalization here, it’s about problems with control.
          Vladimir Putin took the floor. In his opinion, in order to eliminate ethnic tensions, it is necessary to solve the problem of corruption and bias of state bodies, which, in particular, include and regional authorities and law enforcement
          so what is next
          Affected Putin issue and migration to the Russian Federation of foreign citizens
          really it was necessary to cut it out? Then in the weekly reviews you can say they say, why are you writing in one article about sports and about Clinton and about Pusey wright ... what kind of generalization is that?
          1. Volodin
            27 August 2012 12: 48
            +2
            Isaac, thank you for your clarification to Dmitriy69. Just sometimes, many readers read what they call diagonally, and then draw conclusions, skipping not just separate sentences, but entire paragraphs. But this, as they say, trifles. I do not know who you work for, but advocacy is your vocation wink
    3. volcano
      volcano 27 August 2012 09: 41
      +13
      Quote: Dmitriy69
      In general, it is somehow strange to equalize the citizens of Russia, even though not Russians and citizens of other states. Or the author does not catch the difference?


      I think Alexei is hinting that the "citizens of Russia" in question are "Russians" only formally.

      Although I do not insist ...

      Honestly, if we discard political correctness, then the way it is.
      Since Russia is mainly inhabited by Russians with its own mentality, customs and traditions, then naturally the majority will demand respect for themselves.
      And "Caucasian Russians" as well as foreigners do not want to accept or even respect our customs and way of life.
      And here you can really put an equal sign between them.
      So it turns out that there are "Russian migrants" who often do not even know the Russian language and foreign ones who are exactly the same.
      And not only that, they usually aggressively promote their values ​​and traditions, frankly spitting on the "indigenous population" of the region to which they moved. And again, the behavior of both is no different.

      All this tyagomotin and the game of tolerance will not lead to anything good.
      We are confidently heading for ethnic hatred.
      I do not see any smart steps.
      I see only flirting with non-Russians ... and boltology.

      Fearing, of course, the accusation of "Russian nationalism" I will still take the liberty of reminding the leadership that this state exists all the same because of the Russians, thanks to the Russians, and only Russians will be able to preserve it.

      This does not mean that the rest should be spread rot, but be kind to unquestioningly observe and respect our way of life.
      1. Bismark
        Bismark 27 August 2012 10: 09
        +4
        In my house, neighbors "Caucasian Russians" in the entrance are always clean, the elevator is not sucked, I did not hear any noise or screams from their apartments, despite the fact that some Muslims treat my religion well, smart people are calm in communication, explain to me in fact how they "do not want to accept or even respect our customs and way of life." I do not generalize as you do because I know that there are young and daring among them.
        1. volcano
          volcano 27 August 2012 10: 47
          0
          Quote: Bismark
          In my house, neighbors "Caucasian Russians" in the entrance are always clean, the elevator is not sucked, I did not hear any noise or screams from their apartments, despite the fact that some Muslims treat my religion well, smart people are calm in communication, explain to me in fact how they "do not want to accept or even respect our customs and way of life." I do not generalize as you do because I know that there are young and daring among them.


          I am talking about the general and the whole. Of course there are decent people.
          But if out of 10 decent there are 2, then excuse me that is exactly the way to conduct it.

          Many can give you a lot of examples of really good-neighborly living. And naturally it has a place to be.

          But when, for example, we talk about the United States and call them because they behave, we are not talking about a specific John from Texas who reads Pushkin and loves Russia with all his cowboy heart. But surely in the United States such a couple of dozen typed.
          No, we are talking about the United States as a whole, where the love of justice, for Russia of several hundred (or even tens of thousands) people are completely lost amid the bestial behavior of millions of Americans.
          1. Bismark
            Bismark 27 August 2012 11: 11
            0
            I will accept your answer, but not completely, since not all Russians know their culture and history. We are not talking about the United States, but about Russia.

            All this tyagomotin and the game of tolerance will not lead to anything good.
            We are confidently heading for ethnic hatred.
            I do not see any smart steps.
            I see only flirting with non-Russians ... and boltology.

            And what action do you want, deportation or executions. Without the "Caucasian Russians" Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities will drown in garbage the next day. What do you think young people who want to be an office manager, lawyer, marketer will do dirty work (construction sites, tile factories, etc.), I doubt it. I will give you advice not to row everyone under the same trough! hi
            1. volcano
              volcano 27 August 2012 11: 24
              +1
              Quote: Bismark
              What do you think young people who want to be an office manager, lawyer, marketer will do the dirty work (construction sites, tile plants, etc.), I doubt it. I will give you advice do not row everyone under the same trough!


              In my opinion, I explained that I’m not rowing everyone under the same trough.

              As for garbage and youth.
              In fact, it is the presence of disenfranchised migrants that allows impudent employers.
              I am sure that their absence and, as you say, the unwillingness of "ours to go to work" will force employers to raise wages and give social guarantees prescribed by law.
              Whatever one may do, +
              It’s just necessary to understand that businessmen and businessmen are primarily interested in migrants who do not have a residence permit or citizenship or something else in the wrong order. But not the Russian economy, as a concept as a whole.
              And this lobby draws you pictures of "dirty cities", abandoned construction sites, etc. if only the state and society did not take this problem seriously and break off such a thrill for them.
              1. virm
                virm 27 August 2012 11: 43
                +10
                Travel to Belarus and look at the perfect order in the cities, the prosperous villages, and the excellent roads. And there are no migrants, the same people live there as Russian Russia.
                1. volcano
                  volcano 27 August 2012 12: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: virm
                  Travel to Belarus and look at the perfect order in the cities, the prosperous villages, and the excellent roads. And there are no migrants, the same people live there as Russian Russia.


                  Why are you telling me this?
                  You tell Bismarku. He believes that if there are no migrants, then we will wallow in mud and crap.
              2. Bismark
                Bismark 27 August 2012 12: 03
                +1
                I very much doubt that the absence of migrants will force employers to raise their salaries and give social guarantees laid down by law, and Ukraine is an example where there are no such migrants. I’m talking not for illegal immigrants, but for migrants as such, these are two different things. A legally registered migrant brings no small profit to the treasury, if you do not know how much money needs to be poured to officially apply for a migrant job.
                Some acquaintances of employers do not even take Russians to such work because the work will either not be completed, or underfulfillment, or lack of workplace due to hard drinking, applicants were even at my enterprise. We took a few people to the geologists to help, but they have not a day on a business trip, then they are drinking something else. Not all of course such, but unfortunately the percentage runs up.
            2. Light source
              Light source 27 August 2012 23: 38
              +2
              Quote: Bismark
              Without the "Caucasian Russians" Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities will drown in garbage the next day. What do you think young people who want to be an office manager, lawyer, marketer will do dirty work (construction sites, tile factories, etc.), I doubt it.


              I have not seen Russians from the Caucasus picking up trash. I see Asians and Europeans, and I saw them before when, as a student, I worked as a cleaner.
              So, do not drive that we will drown, on the contrary, it will be better, because they will begin to clean up after themselves, morality will appear, instead of sloppiness.
            3. Pancho
              Pancho 28 August 2012 21: 02
              0
              Quote: Bismark
              Without the "Caucasian Russians" Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities will drown in garbage the next day.

              But how did we live without them? And where did you see the "Caucasian Russians" cleaning up mountains of garbage, should you follow the Russians?
        2. bachast
          bachast 27 August 2012 12: 11
          +3
          I heard no noise or screams from their apartments

          It is a colleague in different ways .. as well as their noise
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5MQCFGNvTU
          1. Bismark
            Bismark 27 August 2012 12: 22
            +1
            I do not argue. Impudent immigrant youth will come across with us.
        3. Arsen
          Arsen 28 August 2012 20: 57
          -1
          God bless you and continue to live like this, I'm serious.
      2. valokordin
        valokordin 27 August 2012 13: 08
        +4
        Now, when there was internationalism, when people respected each other regardless of race and nationality, when the principles of socialism acted, then these questions did not arise, but now get it. Oh pokekh.
    4. minister
      minister 27 August 2012 13: 06
      +4
      Yes, it's high time to piss them off, otherwise in 91 they wanted independence, they got it, and now again to us, what a fig to go, sit at your place and coo. Okay, Ukrainians they are Slavs to us, but these are from Central Asia, I have evicted everyone, especially let them deal with the North Caucasus when in the Stavropol Territory they arrange dances under the windows at 2 am, and then they write on the door "Russian and not beautiful girls do not enter" what is it. If they lived in America, they would shoot them on the spot and say that they are right
      1. Nir
        Nir 27 August 2012 14: 54
        -4
        Quote: ministr
        Yes, it's high time to piss them off, otherwise in 91 they wanted independence, they got it, and now again to us, what a fig to go, sit at your place and coo. Okay, Ukrainians they are Slavs to us, but these are from Central Asia, I have evicted everyone, especially let them deal with the North Caucasus when in the Stavropol Territory they arrange dances under the windows at 2 am, and then they write on the door "Russian and not beautiful girls do not enter" what is it. If they lived in America, they would shoot them on the spot and say that they are right

        Do not worry, dear, we are here for a long time ... but from the fact that someone came up with something like a new exam, it's just a new feeder for officials, a migrant is for life wink so do not be indignant, so to speak, give us independence and work in RF here we are such bad dealers wink
        1. kontrzasada20
          kontrzasada20 27 August 2012 23: 30
          -1
          We don’t take a steam bath, we educate our children to hate you, teach us not to drink and not smoke, to read and study a lot, to learn, history is just beginning, what will happen in fifty years, I won’t recognize it, but I believe your grandchildren will recognize it.
          1. Nir
            Nir 28 August 2012 13: 13
            0
            Quote: kontrzasada20
            we educate our children to hate you,

            Do not tell my slippers, dear lol the question is who to bring up? You have one pair of 0,8 children, study fertility per woman in erefey wink
            Quote: kontrzasada20
            we teach you not to drink or smoke, a lot

            Oh well seriously lol something seems to be badly taught since young people not only get drunk but are expanding wink and how to understand "a lot" what do you want to say that you can learn to drink but little by little? Well, well, teach, teach us this only on hand.
            Quote: kontrzasada20
            read and learn a lot

            Read whom? Akunin? Dontsov? Minaev? I can’t laugh, have you even seen today what your writers write?
            Quote: kontrzasada20
            what will happen in fifty years, I will not know

            This is the key phrase that you don’t recognize, but I already know how everything will be wink
            1. Pancho
              Pancho 28 August 2012 21: 05
              0
              Something you already know our language very well for the Uzbek. And then do not forget how all sorts of invasions of Russia ended.
              1. Nir
                Nir 29 August 2012 09: 43
                +1
                Quote: Pancho
                And then do not forget how all sorts of invasions of Russia ended.

                With what, a tribute was collected that's what wink Or forgot about the Asian hordes that in the Middle Ages went up and down across Eurasia?
                Quote: Pancho
                Something you really good for the Uzbek speak our language.

                Come on, where do we have black to own then "great and mighty" we are not distant, these are reflexes at the level of instincts lol
                1. Pancho
                  Pancho 29 August 2012 22: 21
                  0
                  Quote: Nir
                  Come on, where do we have black to own then "great and mighty" we are not distant, these are reflexes at the level of instincts

                  So reflexes ?! Relax, your countrymen are full, which are neither be nor me.
                  Quote: Nir
                  Or forgot about the Asian hordes that in the Middle Ages went up and down across Eurasia?

                  And where are they all? And they didn’t tear their mouths like wolves. I don’t remember how your compatriots were added in the 19th century. Read the literature on this topic, entertainingly.
            2. kontrzasada20
              kontrzasada20 28 August 2012 22: 45
              0
              I understand your sarcasm, but I’m sure you understand everything perfectly and most importantly you know that there are people - bees, people - creators, creators inventors, builders of the State, without this they cannot. And there are people who are flies whose activity and nature you are beautiful You know. That's the nature of your sarcasm, that's what kind of laughter you choke on.
    5. Cesar_Xnumx
      Cesar_Xnumx 27 August 2012 15: 35
      +1
      Hmm, Putin's migration policy can only be called Tolerant deepthroat.
  2. Z.A.M.
    Z.A.M. 27 August 2012 08: 29
    +26
    "Whether there was a direct allusion to the governor Tkachev, or whether Putin decided to hook on the problem in general, it's not easy to say ..."
    In short, as always, "hook" in general, while not really explaining shit, is in Putin's style. About everything and nothing - think what you want.

    "In his speech, Putin also said that, without relinquishing responsibility from the regional and federal authorities, one should be aware of the fact that migrants often ignore the traditions of the region to which these migrants were forced to arrive for one reason or another ..."
    Another "brilliant" phrase that round is round. And we ourselves would not have guessed ...
    A dream, about not a dream, when not a dream - a dream. "The magic lamp of Aladdin", one of the "wisest", there, too, twisted his brains out of his mind.


    That is why it is time to start solving migration problems in Russia today.

    E SH П - P O Z A V C H E R A!

    Well, he doesn’t want, he doesn’t want GDP, rely on RUSSIAN.
    1. esaul
      esaul 27 August 2012 08: 41
      +3
      Quote: Z.A.M.
      In short, as always, "hook" in general, while not really explaining a damn thing, is in the style of Putin.


      but the fact is that the president publicly stated the roots of any interethnic and interfaith confrontation in Russia. No matter what the supporters of the idea of ​​trying to express the complex relations of individual peoples of the country as they try, the corruption component of the activities of the bureaucratic corps is in the first place. It is obvious that the “gilded pen” of a single official can simply cover his eyes to uncontrolled migration in the region, which subsequently creates not only economic problems, but also problems on national and religious grounds.

      In his speech, Putin also stated that, without taking responsibility from regional and federal authorities, one must be aware of the fact that migrants often ignore the traditions of the region in which these migrants were forced to come for one reason or another. It often happens that a national minority eventually turns into a fairly powerful force, which is not only not going to integrate into the local public field, but is also trying to plant traditions that are frankly alien to the local population.

      In this regard, Putin called for specific tasks for the federal government and regional authorities to create a single network of so-called adaptation courses not only for labor migrants, but also for members of their families


      It is strange that this was not noticed.

      Yes, you were in a hurry with the conclusion ...! Now Putin, having heard your accusation, will roll up his sleeves and rush into a raid on the places of "compact residence", just to prove to you ...

      Quote: Z.A.M.
      Well, does not want, does not want GDP


      And where did you see this in the text of the article? If you yourself thought up, then you yourself know that in fantasies you can blind an elephant out of a mouse.
      1. Committee
        Committee 27 August 2012 09: 28
        +4
        I don’t need to "adapt" them at my side, adapt them somewhere in pedrant Europe. Correctly they say here - Russian speech is already exotic. Tolerated with "adaptations".
      2. Z.A.M.
        Z.A.M. 27 August 2012 09: 55
        +4
        esaul

        Good morning.
        I don’t want to argue with you ...
        The fact that he DOES NOT WANT to rely on Russians is evident from his "migraine policy" ... Some talk about creating conditions for the resettlement of Russians in the near and far abroad. And not only Russians, but those who feel that way and are ready to restore the agricultural and production of Russia. But the last (agriculture and production) Putin DOES NOT NEED.
        Everything is filled with Gaster, the WTO has entered us into the WTO here's to you and FAK T.

        Quote: esaul
        but the fact is that the president publicly stated
        lol Well, after I STATED, then yes - everything will work out. hi Candle for him, after this statement, do not put? ...

        Farewell.
        1. esaul
          esaul 27 August 2012 10: 35
          0
          Quote: Z.A.M.
          Good morning.


          Good morning.

          Quote: Z.A.M.
          Farewell.


          All the best. There is no desire to argue the same. hi
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic 27 August 2012 10: 40
        +10
        Greetings Valery! I, too, first of all drew attention to the excerpts you cited. That's right. It is more profitable for officials, businessmen and law enforcement officers to deal with visitors. They can be paid a tiny fraction of the salary by putting the remaining lion's share in their pocket, they can arrange a 14-hour working day, they can be thrown out on the street without paying at all, they can put ten people in a room, a basement or ... right in the garbage container.
        More is more: for example, Moscow has already appeared network companies where practically some newcomers work. These are hairdressing salons, catering establishments and retail trade, apartment and office renovation offices, shipping companies that hire minibus drivers, etc. Moreover, some areas of business are divided between diasporas that are actually at enmity with each other and do not allow "strangers" its sphere Business
        That is more and more professions are monopolized by migrants
        Illegal labor is cheaper. You do not have to pay taxes for them, deduct funds to the Pension Fund. Law enforcement officers must fight this problem, but the police and migrant workers prefer not to decide, but to make money. On average, each guest worker pays a monthly “roof” of 1-3 thousand rubles. Part of the profit goes up. Management also receives big money from businessmen hiring hundreds of Asians
        Moreover themselves for the sake of personal enrichment, employees of relevant departments create clandestine channels for transporting criminal elements across the border . We are witnessing the emergence of large-scale ethnic crime! .. The problem is growing rapidly, if it is not solved at the legislative level, it will be solved from below, most likely under the able leadership from the outside. Unfortunately, we do not have a sane party or movement in the country defending the interests of the Russian people as a nation-forming nation, the government is either afraid of its people or does not know what to do with this problem, having held countless meetings of open governments, all sorts of advisory committees create different adaptation programs that no one can find needed, etc. And things are still there .. Although in my opinion there are quite real legislative measures that must be taken yesterday. I will give below ..
        1. esaul
          esaul 27 August 2012 11: 03
          +2
          Ascetic,


          Greetings, buddy and thank you, as always, for a great comment.
          Apparently, until we have our own Breivik announced, the authorities will not scratch their heads.
          Or Putin will be bored so much that he (for one reason or another) transplantes or sends a good half of bureaucrats to rest.
        2. Ascetic
          Ascetic 27 August 2012 11: 11
          +11
          In this regard, it is necessary the following measures

          1. Citizens with evidence of the Russian origin of themselves and / or their parents or direct ancestors are automatically vested with the right to obtain Russian citizenship.
          2. Acceptance Law "On the Russian people." The document should reflect that Russian people are now divided, and also formulated a strategic goal for reunification through voluntary rapprochement and integration primarily of the Slavic countries
          3. For foreigners who have no reason to enter the country borders must be closed (excluding Ukraine and Belarus)
          4 ..Foreign citizen without special permissionissued if there is a shortage of these specialists, does not have the right to work or do business in Russia. Mentioned permits must be issued for a period not exceeding 5 years and within a clearly defined quota, compliance must be closely monitoredThis will be a struggle of corruption not in words but in deeds.
          5. Foreign citizens who are in the country illegally must be sent immediatelyarrivals re-attracted to criminal liability not administrative fines. Where are the vaunted FMS databases, why don't they work? And all because - corruption and real estate abroad by officials and everything else is good ..
          6. Foreign citizens who are legally in the country but do not have the right to work must be suspended from the performance of their work duties or from engaging in commercial activities.
          6. Foreign citizens who are legally in the country and have the right to work in must pay Russian taxes. If the fact of non-payment of taxes is confirmed, they should be deprived of the right to further work and stay in Russia. At least and even better in prison according to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
          7. The introduction of large fines for employers, regional or local authorities, hiring foreign nationals without the latter having an appropriate work permit. and even better, immediately a prison, because these fines, judging by the current situation, do not work, turning into another corruption feeder.

          Then, in my opinion, things will move from a dead point if migrants live and work (do business) on these legally the problem will not be so acute and after that we need to talk about adaptation, social and other rights of labor migrants.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 27 August 2012 11: 21
            +5
            I will give one example about the extent of corruption in the migration structures of power
            taken from article Georgy Alexandrov: Migration Gate of Russia published in AIF

            True, in reality, not everything is going smoothly at the local migration service. For example, at the end of last year, the Omsk Regional Court found the former head of the FMS department Vladimir Alles and his wife guilty of committing as many as three crimes. In 2007, a senior official, through the mediation of his wife, received a bribe from a PRC citizen who has business in the Russian Federation. 150 thousand rubles the entrepreneur paid the head of the FMS for assistance in obtaining work permits for compatriots, whom she planned to arrange for her enterprises. In 2010, the same business woman “brought” another 135 thousand for the officer for such services. Permits were issued for specialists assigned to an unquoted group - engineers for automation and mechanization of production processes. Moreover, the Chinese were actually going to work as vegetable growers. And in March 2010, the same Chinese woman with whom Alles's wife had developed friendly relations turned to him for help in rescuing from her law enforcement agencies twelve of her compatriots detained for violating the rules of the regime of stay in the Russian Federation and illegal work. Alles for a fee of 300 thousand rubles. agreed to help avoid large fines and got caught. The sentence sentenced him to imprisonment for a term of 5 and a half years in a maximum security colony, and a fine of half a million rubles was imposed on his wife.


            My webpage

            During the time of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich Tishishy, ​​they put him on a stake for such things, under his son Peter the Great they chopped his head, under Stalin
            put to the wall, now only 5 years old and a fine ..
          2. Roman Dmitriev
            Roman Dmitriev 27 August 2012 11: 22
            +1
            Ascetic, a huge plus for your offer. I would particularly emphasize point 7.
    2. not good
      not good 27 August 2012 17: 39
      +1
      Yes, he does not rely heavily on laws!
  3. Senzey
    Senzey 27 August 2012 08: 38
    +1
    The question is serious, it’s necessary to solve it somehow, but our government is not ready to do this. They don’t know how ...
    1. Mikhalych82
      Mikhalych82 27 August 2012 09: 25
      +3
      our government is not ready to do this
      Not ready or unwilling? sad
      The question is very serious. Not resolving this issue, the budget of the Russian Federation loses money, taxes, contributions to the PFR (which pensions of Russians directly depend on), the department of illegal immigrants is carried out at the expense of budget funds, the growth of crime (the activity of ethnic groups), as a result of nationalist sentiment! An abscess is brewing. Lack of jobs for citizens of the Russian Federation.
    2. Committee
      Committee 27 August 2012 09: 29
      +2
      But our government knows how to "adapt" them tolerantly.
  4. tan0472
    tan0472 27 August 2012 08: 43
    +5
    Anteres deputies in Krasnodar are found. Mr. Abdulatipov believes that irregular migration does not lead to nationalism, and Tkachev’s statement caused by this migration leads. Some kind of Kunstkamera. fool
  5. Committee
    Committee 27 August 2012 08: 48
    +13
    It is a very stupid and short-sighted policy not to rely on the Russians, appealing to "numerous" "ethnic groups", calling for "discussions", "discussions". And what is there to discuss ?! We are Russians, we live in our own country, we want to live according to our own laws. We are in the majority. We do not go to Azerbaijan with our "charter", although it is warm there and everything is growing ... We are freezing here, at home .... But we have it! Or will Russia soon turn into a communal apartment for newcomers? And who will we be in this kitchen?
    1. Ataturk
      Ataturk 27 August 2012 10: 00
      -4
      Quote: Committee
      We don't go to Azerbaijan with our "charter"


      We went and went more than once. If in doubt or not believing, I can prove it to you !!!
      Starting from the time of Peter to Gorbachev. Tell the truth! No need to dissemble !!! (I'm not talking about commoners)
      Almost 5 hundred years with their charter in Azerbaijan and went.
      1. Rebus
        Rebus 27 August 2012 16: 02
        +10
        Quote: Ataturk
        Starting from the time of Peter to Gorbachev. Tell the truth! No need to dissemble !!! (I'm not talking about commoners)
        Almost 5 hundred years with their charter to Azerbaijan and went.

        In Azerbaijan, a century equals 40-50 years? laughing
        On November 17, 1813, the Gulistan Peace Treaty was concluded. According to the agreement, Persia recognized the transition to Russia of Dagestan, Kartli, Kakheti, Megrelia, Imereti, Guria, Abkhazia and part of modern Azerbaijan, where the khanates were located: Baku, Karabakh, Ganja, Shirvan, Sheki, Derbent, Cuban. Part of the Talysh Khanate also went to Russia.
        Under the agreement, Russia was granted the exclusive right to have its own navy in the Caspian Sea.
        At least before Russia, Azerbaijan lived according to Persian charters, and it is not known which charter was milder for Azerbaijan.
        1. vikingost
          vikingost 18 January 2015 05: 03
          0
          a ti oshibaeshsa do 1925 v irane nebili persidskogo rejima ,, tam upravlyali tyurki azerbaydjanci, vi u azerbaydjana tolko golovu otorvali winked
      2. vikingost
        vikingost 18 January 2015 05: 01
        0
        tocna, koe kto nexocet eto priznat lol
  6. afire
    afire 27 August 2012 09: 12
    +12
    in general, as I saw crowds of unwashed people in the morning, it will be so ....
    and if it already bothered me? and if a thousand like me already got it?
    and if a million of my compatriots are all disgusted?
    If they say this and follow SUCH policies, then the gdp is deeply mistaken and it will not lead to anything good, I do not want to live in
    tajiuzbekazarossii am am am
    For centuries we fought for our lands, and now they stupidly moved here-WONDERFUL! VERY SMART!
    1. Committee
      Committee 27 August 2012 09: 23
      +2
      I support. You're right! just picked up and arrived. No fight. No loss. Moreover, with its charter in our monastery.
    2. Apollo
      Apollo 27 August 2012 11: 57
      +2
      Quote: afire
      in general, as I saw crowds of unwashed people in the morning, it will be so ....
      and if it already bothered me? and if a thousand like me already got it?


      I don’t understand you, dear, you are talking about whom, about the citizens of Russia, Tajik Uzbek, Georgian Azerbaijani, Armenian, Korean, Moldavian, Indian ......... nationality in question and what kind of expression do you choose for those unwashed in the morning expression in his opuses. In your words a subtext of racism is felt! am
      Had it happened that tomorrow these as you call the "unwashed" will be the first to go to defend Russia !!!
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 27 August 2012 12: 42
        +6
        Not everyone who lives in Russia needs Russia, even if he is its citizen.
        But Russia needs everyone who lives in Russia, even if he is not her citizen.
      2. nnz226
        nnz226 27 August 2012 14: 25
        +6
        They will not go to defend Russia, they were so enthusiastic about driving the Russians out of their bantustans in the 90s ("Suitcase, railway station, Russia!") That I Doubt VERY MUCH from them to expect a patriotic impulse to defend Russia !!! I cannot and will not forgive the persecution of the Russian population in the 90s with this "unwashed" one !!! And the politicians have nothing to do with it: it was not the newly created presidents and ministers who broke into the houses and apartments of Russians and threw them out into the street, but these "ordinary citizens" who now (realizing that without the Russians they will be in the trees within one or two generations ) burst into Russia ...
        1. Nir
          Nir 27 August 2012 14: 51
          -4
          Quote: nnz226
          They will not go to defend Russia, they were so enthusiastic about driving the Russians out of their bantustans in the 90s ("Suitcase, railway station, Russia!") That I Doubt VERY MUCH from them to expect a patriotic impulse to defend Russia !!! I cannot and will not forgive the persecution of the Russian population in the 90s with this "unwashed" one !!! And the politicians have nothing to do with it: it was not the newly created presidents and ministers who broke into the houses and apartments of Russians and threw them out into the street, but these "ordinary citizens" who now (realizing that without the Russians they will be in the trees within one or two generations ) burst into Russia ...

          Ah ah offended lit up ... how much offended you? Well, who are you not with wink Patience grow together, fall in love as they say lol
          1. Xtra1l
            Xtra1l 27 August 2012 21: 20
            +1
            Yes, they do not want to learn the Russian language in order to earn money. Do you see whether this is their right to learn or not. although there, like first-graders, exams should be taken even lower. I wouldn’t even give this right to what’s located here, they’ve been very much insolent, they don’t refuse what they want and do something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5MQCFGNvTU
            and there are a lot of such examples, especially Siberia, we will soon live by their rules. I like Caucasians when they are at home
          2. denisey
            denisey 28 August 2012 17: 30
            -3
            Quote: Nir
            Ah ah offended lit up ... how much offended you? Well, whoever you are not wink be patient grows together, to fall in love as they say lol

            As you say, the dog barks, the caravan goes, look again 101 times do not be offended))))
  7. predator
    predator 27 August 2012 09: 14
    +14
    Too late Vladimir Vladimirovich came to his senses. He had to put the national question under control for a long time; now time is lost and now these attempts are only disgusting. Enough - ran into it. Brought to such a state and now in a hurry to fix it. I spread demagoguery- it is necessary so, it is necessary that way- earlier it was necessary to think. In the current situation, I think the decision of Vladimir Vladimir is equivalent to the next nail in the coffin of the existing regime.
    I used to be calm about migrants, but when Russian around you becomes exotic, and visitors begin to behave like fascists, you involuntarily begin to think about the national question.
  8. baltika-18
    baltika-18 27 August 2012 09: 18
    +7
    Fish rots from the head. It seems that our rulers don’t know what the hell they are doing. Migrants are beneficial for many officials, businessmen, and crooks of all kinds. It’s necessary to deal with the problem, but many feeders will lose. In short , as in the saying: eat a fish, and sit on the x ... th.
  9. Leisure
    Leisure 27 August 2012 09: 54
    +3
    Visitors wanted to spit on adaptation courses. Visitors come to earn money, rather than sit on courses.
  10. borisst64
    borisst64 27 August 2012 09: 55
    +3
    Ten years ago, a conversation with a Georgian colleague, he wants to open a retail outlet. I told him - how will you solve the problem with paperwork? The answer is that the administration has ANYTHING Georgians (that is, he is not even familiar with it), he will do everything! And in the eyes of surprise, they say a stupid question.
    I think this is the whole problem. It is necessary to introduce a law for violating an official in favor of the Caucasians, and apply a doubled punishment rate.
    Although I have a lot of examples in personal communication, where a Caucasian is an honest and noble person, but they are all of pre-retirement age.
  11. Apollo
    Apollo 27 August 2012 10: 06
    +8
    Issues of interethnic and migration relations should be the prerogative of only the highest organs of Russia.If one or another regional leader decides on these issues, this will definitely lead to chaos and confusion.
    Another thing is that sometimes the leaders of the state do not give a clear and clear answer on how to solve the above issues and hence the whole pun.
    If there is a clear and intelligible program, then many issues on the ground will be resolved accordingly.
  12. Bismark
    Bismark 27 August 2012 10: 15
    0
    The problem is not that they are coming, the problem is that no one wants to be registered according to the law, medical examination, state duties, work permit, etc. ...
    1. Xtra1l
      Xtra1l 27 August 2012 21: 34
      +2
      So many of them come here and they don’t want to make out
  13. Committee
    Committee 27 August 2012 10: 27
    +2
    Ataturk. By the way, it was like the Turks, and not an Azerbaijani? Why are you writing to me personally? You write here for everyone to read.

    Here is what a user with the nickname "Ataturk" wrote to me in a personal message:

    You write to Azerbaijan did not go with your charter?
    And who started the war with us and took Derbend from us?
    Only 70 stormed the Erivan fortress.
    And who divided Azerbaijan into 2 parts and created Armenia?
    And who in 90 entered the army in Baku and exterminated the people?
    And who helped the Armenians chop off another 20 percent of the land?
    And who at the age of 41-45 robbed our oil and poked what and how should we do and live?
    Who when illegally during the USSR sold Uzbek cotton and then Azerbaijanis were hunched to comply with the state norm?
    Isn’t Russia now getting into our business, especially to whom and how do we sell oil, especially the Trans-Caspian pipeline, while you are building pipes through the Black and Baltic Sea?

    And much more. So who and with the charter came first and second and tenth, it's yours.

    And how to integrate with them? As it is not tolerant, it turns out. And all of the sneak again.
    1. Smirnov Vadim
      Smirnov Vadim 27 August 2012 10: 32
      0
      Who else received letters from Ataturk?
      1. esaul
        esaul 27 August 2012 10: 46
        0
        Quote: Smirnov Vadim
        Who else received letters from Ataturk?


        Greetings, Vadim. Atatürk appealed to me after I reproached him for comment in the Nazi attempts, but the short correspondence did not contain any obvious excesses and was very emotional on his part. The guy absolutely does not accept any objections, if they do not contain convictions, in the Karabakh conflict, only Armenia.
    2. Ares1
      Ares1 27 August 2012 11: 31
      +6
      According to your message from Ataturk ... Honestly, it's even difficult to read that. He (Ataturk) looks like you in a personal and wrote that such, to put it mildly, nonsense cannot be put on public display ... This is where you can find such historical "facts"? Not otherwise, as in Azerbaijani textbooks. Or is it even taken from Azerbaijani "alternative" history. Their Fomenko ...
      1. virm
        virm 27 August 2012 12: 01
        -1
        Caucasian - there is a Caucasian. I’m becoming more and more convinced that these people are always ready to deceive, rob, throw dust in the eyes with cheap show-offs. If he needs something, and this something cannot be stolen or taken away, then he without soap will climb.
        If he has to jump from the size of his ego by the value of his iq, then he will break all the bones, since he will have to fly for a very long time.
        And the most interesting, with all this, is that they are people in their own way. And they also have a system of life values ​​and ideals. But this system is located, not even on another planet, but in a different universe, by the thinning of our worldview. And they treat Russians as nonhumans. Not because we are so bad. But because we are from another universe.
        And Mr. Putin wants to say: That's it. The train left, and you stayed on the platform together with migrants dear to your heart.
        1. Kamilla
          Kamilla 27 August 2012 12: 20
          +1
          Quote: virm
          Caucasian - there is a Caucasian. I’m becoming more and more convinced that these people are always ready to deceive, rob, throw dust in the eyes with cheap show-offs. If he needs something, and this something cannot be stolen or taken away, then he will climb into the well without soap.


          if 2-3 or more Caucasians did this personally to you .. Doesn’t mean yet that everyone is like that !! like not all Russian alcoholics and swindlers !!
      2. vikingost
        vikingost 18 January 2015 05: 07
        0
        pravda vseqda gorko, a on Ataturk prav
    3. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 27 August 2012 11: 35
      -3
      Man relax, it's Azerbaijani and they and rats are synonyms.
      1. Kamilla
        Kamilla 27 August 2012 12: 03
        +2
        WHEN OUR OIL at 41 to 45 was pumped out by RATS WE WERE NOT ... AND WERE THE BROTHERS OF THE AZERBAIJAN
        And how, our wealth passed to us, so immediately the Armenians helped chop off Karabakh ..... and everything else. OLD PETRA SONG !!!!!
    4. nnz226
      nnz226 27 August 2012 14: 19
      +3
      So you have already gained independence from the "hated" Russians! Sit in Azerbaijan and “raise your homeland!”, Why are you bursting into Russia again ?! Everyone hates her (Russia), but they don't want to stay at their homes, they climb into Russia! What for? Russia needs you ???
  14. pheophano
    pheophano 27 August 2012 10: 28
    +2
    Who is aware, please. Throw a link to the official source.
    And at the same time watch this video. In the light of the above, it is very interesting.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JlbWAHYRoE
  15. alebor
    alebor 27 August 2012 11: 08
    +7
    Here, in my opinion, is a wise policy:
    "Everyone who wants to visit Japan must apply for an entry visa, it can be a tourist visa - it is issued for three months, or a work visa - is issued for a period of six or more months.
    Japan is one of the few countries in the world that is not interested in immigrants. This state has a relatively closed immigration policy regarding the admission of unskilled labor to its labor market. So, in accordance with the law, only migrants of Japanese origin, as well as foreign students and interns, can legally apply for unskilled work among foreigners. As for highly qualified personnel with knowledge of the introduction of new information technologies, the state is interested in their entry and employment. "
    "The laws are written in such a way that it is more profitable to hire local residents than foreigners, since a foreigner, according to the law, has to pay more than a local. Therefore, the more educated professional specialist you are, the more chances you have to find a job in Japan, and the Japanese do unskilled work themselves . "
    Putin, who is pursuing a policy of mass settlement of Russia by migrants-foreigners (which is worth his proposal to grant Russian citizenship to all former citizens of the USSR, i.e. Central Asia, the Caucasus, etc.!), Turns our country inhabited by indigenous peoples into what something, I apologize for the rude expression, "ethnic dump".
    1. virm
      virm 27 August 2012 12: 05
      +4
      More South Korea.
      Oh, imagine how cool it is to live among your people, in our native land, among birches and wooden churches. And do not see these wild people in skull-caps with Wahhabi beards, their women wrapped in dark clothes, their children with guttural screams. I respect other nations, but not the invaders.
  16. Forget
    Forget 27 August 2012 11: 49
    +6
    I want to live in Russia, let me go?
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 27 August 2012 12: 17
      +5
      Quote: Forget
      I want to live in Russia, let me go?



      such chauvinists, adventurers and enemies of Russia as Alexei Prikazchikovs will not let, be sure.
  17. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 12: 34
    0
    Committee And how to integrate with them? As it is not tolerant, it turns out. And all of the sneak again.


    Before talking about whether to integrate with us or not, we need to ask a question, and does the current relationship between Russia and Azerbaijan allow Azerbaijan to build relations taking into account all of the above?

    Ares1 seems to you in a personal and wrote that such, to put it mildly, nonsense can not be put on public display ...

    Why nonsense, I always said that. I speak openly. Maybe I'm wrong?

    Alexey Prikazchikov is Azerbaijani and they and rats are synonyms.

    It’s better to be a rat than people like you and others like you. Who do not want to admit the truth!

    Part 1

    I am sometimes amazed, or deliberately falsify the story or brazenly do not want to accept the truth. Many people like to say what happened 1000 years ago, what happened during the time of Caesar and everyone who wants to gain a foothold in the land of Azerbaijan.

    This is not nice guys. We never talked about this. They were silent. If it comes to that, you never think that we can have land claims to all? Including both Georgia and Iran and Armenia. There are historical facts to this.

    But once the topic came up about Derbend, and so we read.
    For starters, consider Derbent. Where did this name come from and what is it like.



    Now let's check if this is true. Consider its population. I take the source that I most hate Wikipedia. Which always writes against us.



    But we did not talk about this and did not shout to the whole world. If there is war, everyone will get it.


    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 13: 06
      +1
      Lobster.
      Your wiki clipping says: "... and the northern part of Azerbaijan ..."
      What kind of Azerbaijan are we talking about?
      In the 18th century (1700-1800), Azerbaijan was the Anthropathy (or Aderbaidag), i.e. northern province of the Persian Empire, territorially lying north of the Araks River.
      That Azerbaijan, which now borders on Dagestan and shares Lezghin lands, appeared in the form of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic in 1918 on the lands of the primordially Caucasian peoples: Udis, Avars, Lezghins, Talyshs, Armenians. Thus, the Azerbaijani khanates that existed in the 18th century were not the state of Azerbaijan.
      And yet, clean your inbox, you don’t get private messages.
      And you did not answer me.
      1. Kamilla
        Kamilla 27 August 2012 14: 02
        -1
        Quote: Neutral
        What kind of Azerbaijan are we talking about?
        In the 18th century (1700-1800), Azerbaijan was the Anthropathy (or Aderbaidag), i.e. northern province of the Persian Empire, territorially lying north of the Araks River.


        in the 18th century, in the territory of present Azerbaijan there were Azerbaijani khanates .... and the Azerbaijani Turks lived there (Azeri Turki) .... the Russians called us the Azerbaijani Tatars ... you, the Armenians also have more than one name, you are haiks, then you are Armenians ...

        Quote: Neutral
        That Azerbaijan, which now borders on Dagestan and shares Lezghin lands, appeared in the form of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic in 1918 on the lands of the primordially Caucasian peoples: Udis, Avars, Lezghins, Talyshs, Armenians. Thus, the Azerbaijani khanates that existed in the 18th century were not the state of Azerbaijan.


        Well, this is your purely subjective opinion .. but where was Armenia in the 18th century? you better say it? Erivan Khanate existed on the territory of Armenia !! KHANATE !! read carefully ... the khan was at the head ... the Azeri! not an Armenian !! and there were no Armenians either !! And where have you been? that is the question .... where were you the last 200, 300, 400 years ago? I don’t have to bet the cards of the so-called "Armenia" .. since the time of Noah .. or else I don’t know ... Roman Empire ... these Armenians have the same attitude to you haiks, immigrants from India, as a sparrow to an elephant. winked
        1. Fidain
          Fidain 27 August 2012 16: 38
          -1
          If you even read a bit of history before saying something, you would have known that Aik (Haik) and Armen had beaten Armenian flames and united the Armenian nation, there were also more small tribes that were not numerous in number. We are Armenians and ourselves we call Khai, but abroad it is so overwhelming that they call us Armenians.
          Please look at the map a little higher, will you see Armenia there, and Azerbaijan?
          1. Kamilla
            Kamilla 28 August 2012 10: 39
            0
            hearings ... you go and teach a Russian ... then here .. to the Russian site ... a great hike ((((((((((
            and Turkic tribes have always lived on the territory of Azerbaijan ... these are Scythians, Huns and Sumerian tribes ....

            I'll be kind ... and okay, look at your cards ... so what? Armenia, if you believe it, occupied all of Asia Minor ... ((it’s not interesting to look at such maps. No.
            1. Light source
              Light source 29 August 2012 00: 04
              +2
              Scythians lived in the steppes near the Black and Caspian Seas. These are Russian lands before the arrival of Muslims: Tmutarakan, Belaya Vezha, there were probably others about whom no data were preserved. DNA analysis data confirm.

              But the fathers and grandfathers of the local Azerbaijani population first lost to the Arabs and deprived their people of their native religion, and then they lost to the Mongols and deprived their people of their native language.

              I am sending you to the following links:

              Azerbaijan below:
              http://rugiland.narod2.ru/gaplogruppi/raspredelenie_evropeiskoi_y-hromosomi_dnk_
              y-dnk_gaplogrupp_po_regionam_v_protsentah /

              Haplogroups, click on the links of those haplogroups that interest you:
              http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%D0
              % BF% D0% BF% D1% 8B
      2. vikingost
        vikingost 18 January 2015 05: 08
        0
        a vot ti vrew po polney
  18. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 27 August 2012 12: 53
    +7
    All migrants are different. Familiar with both the first and second. Some selflessly drag drugs and earnestly pray out of place and out of place, while others work from light to light, have created an excellent enterprise, behave respectfully and render services to a city with a population of one hundred thousand. Some at one time were kicked out of their country for excessive greyhound, while the latter fled from the lawlessness of the former. So the first ones I wouldn’t want to see at home, and the second ones I gladly accepted. It is necessary to somehow tune our power to such a solution to the question. Otherwise, they will trample their cattle - they really are more. The fact that the GDP drew attention to the fact that there really is a problem is great, but somehow it is very streamlined and without consequences.
  19. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 12: 54
    +1
    The fact that the Caucasus is on fire puts us all back. When our real enemies develop. Many say the commoner does not solve such issues. Believe me decides. Only love and respect for our neighbor, only when we understand that we are all people and some sort of gang manipulates us and makes us enemies, when we all understand that God is one for all of us. That a person shouldn’t be below the plinth because of skin color, or rather a plebeian or a nobleman, then peace will come. Many people use us.
    You can’t ask and ask and beat all the time. Believe me tired. I am writing for the last time and will not return on this topic anymore, the Russian people, commoners, are not enemies for me, I have always been hostile to attitudes and actions ranging from Peter ending to Humpbacked. Use in a good way with us for friendship, for business, for the development of relationships, and do not hit us sick. God see everything. Everyone will get what he deserves. These are the rules of life.

    And those who want to decide, or have decided to ask for independence from someone on earth, are TRAITORS. As they betrayed the bread they ate, so they would betray the new HOST.
  20. taurus69
    taurus69 27 August 2012 13: 44
    +3
    And why is this, as far as the rights of other nationalities are concerned, is this normal, but if the rights of the Russian people are immediately "Russian nationalism", "great-power chauvinism"? How long will Russians feel like outcasts in Russia?
    and migration policy in theory and in practice are two big differences. while the local boss of the FMS will warm up with impunity on illegal registrations, residence permits, work permits, etc. etc., no presidential decree is a decree to him. and one cannot do without truly extreme measures. he took on his paw - on the zone itself, confiscated everything from the whole family: businesses, property, values, and to raise agriculture to Siberia or the Far East. in especially large cases - life-long without the right of pardon. then the FMS cones will think whether to take it or not. only, vague suspicions torment me, Putin will not go for it. it's a pity...
  21. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 14: 06
    0
    David, the administration closed my access to the PM and I can’t write to the PM. Although he did not offend anyone, he did not touch anyone. Lies also did not write. For everything that I write facts and evidence from me. Probably a technical error. We will see.
  22. nnz226
    nnz226 27 August 2012 14: 14
    -5
    Quote: "Citizens of Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Moldavia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and Uzbekistan have the largest representation here."
    These Papuans, with the exception of Ukraine, wrote in the 90s: "Suitcase, station, Russia!" And now they themselves are breaking into this Russia, they are also dragging wives with children, who need to be arranged in kindergartens and schools and taught for free ... Do we need it ?! Labor migrants should be taken only with a higher education on a "permanent" basis, and for any unskilled laborers to be given permission to enter for three years, without the right to import families, (let them breed), and do not fill Russian cities with their camps. And brutally toughen the migration policy, for illegal entry or work without permission - a ban for 15 years on entry into Russia, and if repeated - imprisonment for at least a couple of years to discourage the hunt. And the "handymen" should not be concentrated in Moscow, but in Siberia - let BAM restore and master Siberian spaces!
    1. Nir
      Nir 27 August 2012 15: 08
      -1
      Quote: nnz226
      These Papuans with the exception of Ukraine

      Oh, what a connoisseur appeared, the highest man with a complex of Napoleon below the belt of Nietzscian casting, born in the 90s lol Why is dust so much in vain? Relaxed respected us no matter how you drive the migrant away it's almost completely ... wink
      ps
      by and large, it’s already violet to us your attitude towards us, and so we already know who you think we are ... so there’s nothing to be offended about and we have our own interests.
  23. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 14: 25
    +4
    Quote Kamilla but where was Armenia in the 18th century? .Roman Empire ....


    He will say that they killed the Armenians and then, purely by chance, in just 1 century they will appear in the city of MAGARA in Iran and will be throughout Eastern Turkey.

    Of course he will give an example of this map "ancient Roman map" they say there we are written and you are not. But if we open the maps of those years, we will see how different the map is. In those days, maps were not drawn with such precision.

    These maps show the territory of the Roman Empire and neighboring regions from the year 146. BC. and until the year 14 CE laughing laughing laughing



    Quote nnz226 These Papuans with the exception of Ukraine


    Given that, these Papuans as you say have such a characteristic


    Kingdom: Animals
    The kingdom: Eumetazo
    Section: Bilateral
    Subsection: Secondary
    Type: Chord
    Subtype: Vertebrates
    Class: Mammals
    Subclass: Placental
    Order: Primates
    Suborder: Dry
    Infrastructure: Narrow Nose
    Superfamily: Humanoid
    Family: Hominids
    Subfamily: Hominins
    Triba: Gominini
    Subtribe: Gominina
    People: People
    Kind: Intelligent Man
    Subtype: Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens


    It turns out that you are also in the ranks of these Papuans like all members of your family to their ancestors. Or do you deny that you are not a person.
    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 14: 37
      +1
      Omar and Camilla.
      "In 1639, after the peace concluded between Turkey and Iran, Armenia was finally divided: Western Armenia, which constitutes most of the country, went to Turkey, Eastern Armenia to Iran. The last remnants of the Armenian statehood were the 5 meliks of Nagorno-Karabakh, which existed until the end of the 18th century. "
      This is an excerpt from academic work - the Great Soviet Encyclopedia.
      Вот ссылка http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/bse/65118/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D1%8F%D0%BD%D1%81%D0
      % BA% D0% B0% D1% 8F
      About Azerbaijan there too.
      Read, enlighten.
      "Learn, learn and learn." V. I. Lenin
      1. Kamilla
        Kamilla 27 August 2012 14: 58
        -2
        the Great Soviet Encyclopedia refers to both Azerbaijan and Georgia ... but, you say that Azerbaijan was not then ... The Great Soviet Encyclopedia could not write anything so as not to provoke ethnic tension between the Soviet fraternal peoples ... this so it is not clear? so learn as Lenin bequeathed !!
        1. Neutral
          Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 02
          +1
          Kama.
          Yes, so any source that writes not what you want to see is declared illegitimate.
          I realized that learning in Azerbaijani is reading books by Azerbaijani authors and "scientists" praising Aliyev and Azerbaijan.
          Sorry, somehow we ourselves.
          1. Kamilla
            Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 29
            0
            and if reliable cards are put, and not falsifications of Armenian historians ... so immediately incomprehensible pictures ?? although everything is sooooo clear on these cards!

            so, we too somehow.
            1. Neutral
              Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 34
              -1
              Sources of article in TSB
              Lit .: V.I. Lenin, Poly. Sobr. Op., vol. 31, p. 329, v. 32, p. 15-16, 40-41, 250 - 252, v. 42, p. 54, p. 132, t. 43, p. 198-200, v. 44, p. 255, v. 48, p. 208, 218-221, v. 52, p. 135-36; Marr N. Ya., Caucasian Cultural World and Armenia, P., 1915; Bryusov V. Ya., Chronicle of the historical fate of the Armenian people, M., 1918; Piotrovsky B. B., On the Origin of the Armenian People, Er., 1946; Sardaryan S.A., Paleolithic in Armenia, Er., 1954; Martirosyan A, A., Armenia in the Bronze and Early Iron Age, Er., 1964; Nersisyan M. G., From the History of Russian-Armenian Relations, Prince 1, Yerevan, 1956; Yeremyan S. T., The experience of periodization of the history of Armenia in the era of feudalism, “Questions of History”, 1951, No. 7; Petrushevsky I. P., Essays on the history of feudal relations in Azerbaijan and Armenia in the 1949th - early 1954th centuries, L., 80; Harutyunyan P. T, Liberation Movement of the Armenian People in the First Quarter of the 1947th Century, M., 1958; A. Ioannisyan, Russia and the Armenian Liberation Movement in the 1959s XVIII century, Er., 1957; him, Accession of Transcaucasia to Russia and international relations at the beginning of the 1947th century, Er., 1860; Grigoryan Z. T., Accession of Eastern Armenia to Russia, M., 1920; Adonts M. A., Economic Development of Eastern Armenia in the XIX Century, Er., 1959; Tumanyan O. E., Development of the Armenian economy since the beginning of the 1967th century before the establishment of Soviet power, Er-, 1962; Hambaryan A., Development of capitalist relations in the Armenian village (1960-1966), Er., 50; Amirkhanian Sh. M., From the history of the struggle for Soviet power in Armenia, Er., 1967; Agayan Ts. P., Great October and the struggle of the working people of Armenia for the victory of Soviet power, Er., 1967; Kadishev A. B., Intervention and the Civil War in Transcaucasia, M., XNUMX; Arzumanyan A.M., Armenia - Russia - friendship forever, Er., XNUMX; The economy and culture of Armenia to the XNUMXth anniversary of the Great October Revolution. Statistical Digest, Er., XNUMX; Nerkararyan V.N., On Some Regularities and Features of the Construction of Socialism in Armenia, Er., XNUMX.
  24. Kamilla
    Kamilla 27 August 2012 14: 29
    -1
    Yes, it’s straight, maybe there were no dinosaurs yet, but there were already Armenians ??? they will become .... they are a famous fake! famous historians confirm that in falsification, Armenians have no equal ((
    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 36
      +1
      TSB article
      Turkmanchay Treaty 1828
      The agreement between Russia and Iran, which ended the Russo-Iranian war of 1826–28 (see the Russo-Iranian wars of the 19th century (See the Russo-Iranian wars of the 19th century).). Signed on February 10 (22) in the village of Turkmanchay (near Tabriz) from Russia by I.F. Paskevich, from Iran by Abbas-Mirza (see Abbas-Mirza). A. S. Griboedov participated in the development of the conditions for T. d. By T. d. To Yerevan and Nakhichevan Khanates withdrew from Russia (Eastern Armenia), the Iranian government has pledged not to impede the resettlement of Armenians in Russia. An indemnity of 20 million rubles was imposed on Iran. in silver. The exclusive right of Russia to keep a navy on the Caspian Sea was confirmed. The parties exchanged missions at the level of envoys. The Russian government recognized Abbas Mirza as the heir to the throne. A trade treaty was signed at the same time as the peace treaty, according to which Russian merchants received free trade rights throughout Iran. T. D. strengthened Russian positions in the Caucasus, contributed to the strengthening of Russia's influence in the Middle East and undermined the British position in Iran. Especially important T. D. had for the fate of the Armenian people, part of which was part of Russia.
      Lit.: Yuzefovich T. P., Treaties of Russia with the East Political and Trade, St. Petersburg, 1869; Fadeev A.V., Russia and the Caucasus of the first third of the XIX century., M., 1960; Shostakovich S.V., Diplomatic activity of A.S. Griboedov, M., 1960.
      1. kNow
        kNow 27 August 2012 16: 46
        -1
        Quote: Neutral
        Turkmanchay Treaty 1828

        Read the article - "Historical Migration of the Armenian Population". Read it for yourself, we already know it all wink
        According to the desk description of the Armenian region of General Merlini for 1830, 30.507 people lived in the Nakhchivan province, of which 17.138 were Muslims (Azerbaijanis), 2.690 people were native Armenians, 10.625 people Armenians resettled from Persia and 27 people - Armenians resettled from Turkey.
        According to Griboedov, the resettlement of Armenians in Nakhichevan led to discontent of the local Muslim population. Griboedov noted that this could lead to the flight of Muslims to Persia, which the Russian administration prevented by forcibly returning the fugitives
        1. darkman70
          darkman70 27 August 2012 17: 31
          +1
          You are missing one point. Prior to this, the Iranians relocated Armenians from their lands to the internal territories of Iran. Their reverse resettlement caused indignation of the Muslims who were once resettled there instead of the Armenians. And in general, what is the argument ??? Türks appeared on these lands when Armenia existed for many centuries. The very name of Nakhchivan is of Armenian origin. It’s not necessary to read the story selectively, but completely.)
          1. Kamilla
            Kamilla 28 August 2012 10: 57
            -1
            Quote: darkman70

            You are missing one point. Prior to this, the Iranians relocated Armenians from their lands to the internal territories of Iran. Their reverse resettlement caused indignation of the Muslims who were once resettled there instead of the Armenians.


            do not talk nonsense ... directly resettled them here and there ... if this is their return to their "ancestral" lands, why did Griboyedov never mention this? on the contrary, he warned the Russian elite about an imminent mistake and catastrophic consequences ... that we are seeing today. Nakhichevan, this is not an Armenian name .. you are deeply mistaken. If it comes to that, the Armenians call this area Syunik .... Turkic tribes have always lived on the territory of Azerbaijan, and the Seljuk Turks appeared later ..

            I am a historian, and I read everything completely, believe me.
  25. Uncle
    Uncle 27 August 2012 14: 33
    +2
    Alexander Tkachev spoke in the spirit that it was time to create special Cossack squads in the Krasnodar Territory that would counteract the migration of residents of the North Caucasus republics and “squeeze out” representatives of Caucasian nationalities from the Kuban.
    Putin touched on the issue of migration of foreign citizens to the Russian Federation.
    Tkachev spoke out, but Putin "touched"! Who is Tkachev and who is Putin? He should not touch, which he has been doing for many years, especially during the election campaign. He must start doing something. Stop talking.
  26. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 14: 36
    +2
    Quote from Kamilla:This is a famous fake!


    with a cursory glance, it becomes clear that these are not “ancient maps”, but just a modern concrete model attached to the Coliseum’s wall in order to familiarize visiting tourists with the area of ​​Ancient Rome. In addition, the map is compiled in the modern borders and outlines of the continents, rivers and seas, as it is a copy of a photograph of this geographical region taken from space. And it is clear to the student that the ancient Romans could not draw maps with the accuracy that can be achieved by taking a photograph from space, the more the Romans could not predict what the outlines of the region would look like 2000 years after their life.

    However, in spite of these elementary things, the Armenian side everywhere issues this “ancient Roman” map as evidence of the existence of the ancient Armenian state.

    In fact, no Roman cards other than the so-called The Peytinger table does not exist, and the existing Peytinger table is considered a copy of a Roman map of the IV century, which has not been preserved in the original and no one can prove whether it was even in the original. This map schematically shows the network of roads of the Roman Empire from Iberia to the east. And that’s all.



    There are also several ancient Greek maps of the world; this is the well-known map of Ptolemy and the maps of Herodotus and Strabo. However, the map “Cosmography of Ptolemy”, reworked in 1467, was preserved, in which, in addition to the name, almost nothing remained of the ancient Ptolemy map.



    As we see, the so-called ancient maps, attributed to the ancient period, actually turn out to be the work of a whole galaxy of medieval and later monks, clerks and pseudo-scientists, with each correction and falsification made taking into account the political situation and the sympathies of its time. The result was such a mess in which the states that appeared 300-700 later each other are shown as contemporaries and neighboring countries.
  27. Kamilla
    Kamilla 27 August 2012 14: 43
    0
    excellent Omar))))))) this is the best proof of the falsification of the Armenians!
    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 14: 57
      -1
      Kama.
      Rather than look at incomprehensible pictures and applaud Omar, one would rather read Strabo.
      Kohl can not in the original, a beautiful translation into Russian has long been made.

      "In Armenia itself there are many mountains and plateaus, where even a vine grows with difficulty; there are many valleys there, and some of them are not particularly fertile, while others, on the contrary, are extremely fertile, for example, the Araks plain, along which the Araks river flows to the borders Albania, flowing into the Caspian Sea. Beyond this plain is Sakasena, also bordering on Albania and the Cyrus River, and even further is Gogarena. The whole country is full of wild fruits and fruits of trees grown by man and evergreens; even an olive tree grows here. Armenia is Favena, as well as Komisena and Orhistena, which exhibit the largest number of horsemen. Horzena and Cambisena are the most northern and most covered with snow; they are on the border with the Caucasus Mountains, Iberia and Colchis. "
      Strabo Geography. Book XI.

      "Part of this country is surrounded by the Caucasus Mountains. As I indicated above, the spurs of the mountains protrude in a southern direction; they are fertile, cover the whole of Iberia, adjoining Armenia and Colchis. In the center of Iberia there is a plain along which rivers flow. The largest of them is Kir. It originates in Armenia and, immediately entering the above-mentioned plain, receives the Arag (flowing from the Caucasus) and other tributaries, and then flows through a narrow valley to Albania; between this valley and Armenia, the river rushes powerfully along the plains, very rich in pastures, receives more more rivers, including Alazoniy, Sandoban, Retak and Khan (all navigable), and finally flows into the Caspian Sea. Before it was called Kor "
      1. Kamilla
        Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 22
        +1
        The fact that Armenia is a geographical concept has long been known. There is no scientific explanation in the sources why people who call themselves Aiki, and people live their own country as Ayastan, on a land called Armenia. Some early Armenian historians, for example, Moses Khorensky, consider Armenians to be direct descendants of the Urartians, and the origin of the name Armenia is elevated to the name of Tsar Urartu Aram. Today, Armenian historians do not repeat this fabrication, recognizing that there is no relationship between the Urartians and Armenians.

        The Muslim scholar Abu Zayd Ahmed ibn Sahl al-Balkhi made a map back in the 9th century, on which the territory of Azerbaijan began just above Derbent Bab al Abwab and extended to the territory of present-day Iraq. On these maps "Azerbaijan" is written in black on white. They bear the names of all historical Azerbaijani cities - Shamakhi, Tabriz, Maraga, etc. "," Moreover, "Armenia" in these sources is indicated not as the name of the state, as the Armenian side claims, but only as the name of the area. Then the Armenians began to move north, and already on the maps of the 18th century they are present in the territory of modern Turkey, but not in the South Caucasus.

        As for the city of Yerevan, it was formerly called Revan. The city, renamed by Armenians to Armavir, is the ancient Azerbaijani city of Sardarabad. Lake Sevan was previously called Goychya. And all this is visible. And all this can be seen on ancient maps "
        Some considerations about the origin of the name “Armenians” are expressed by Toynbee: “If Mesopotamia in the period between the fall of Assyria and the rise of Media passed from Urartu to the Armenians, this may explain the origin of the two concepts we are interested in. First of all, this can explain the replacement of the self-designation aik by "arminia" by the Achaemenids. The place called Arminius by the ancient Parthians, quite possibly, came from the Urartian word urmeniukhini mentioned in cuneiforms near Mush, which is the name of a conquered and destroyed city. The occupation of this Urartian province by flies, which called themselves ayks, may have led to the fact that the Medes, and then the Parthians, began to name new inhabitants of this area by its Urartian name. " [AJ Toynbee. A Study cf History. Oxford University Press. 1963, VII, p. 661].

        READ AND EDUCATE !!!!

        Quote: Neutral
        Beyond this plain is Sakasena, also bordering Albania and the Cyrus River; still further goes Gogarena


        ohh progress, do you admit that Albania existed? and Karabakh was part of it! and then, she asked, it’s not necessary .... the times of Strabo, Herodotus ... and so on .. specifically, the recent past, who was the ruler of Armenia 200 years ago? 300 years ago? if Armenia existed, rulers must exist! So? why was the khan sitting there? Erivan? so don’t bring nonsense!
        1. Neutral
          Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 26
          +1
          One more time:
          "In 1639, after the peace concluded between Turkey and Iran, Armenia was finally divided: Western Armenia, which constitutes most of the country, went to Turkey, Eastern Armenia to Iran. The last remnants of the Armenian statehood were 5 meliks of Nagorno-Karabakh, which existed until the end of 18 at."
          This is an excerpt from academic work - the Great Soviet Encyclopedia.
          Вот ссылка http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/bse/65118/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D1%8F%D0%BD%D1%81%D0

          % BA% D0% B0% D1% 8F
      2. kNow
        kNow 27 August 2012 16: 39
        0


        David, guess what city it is? laughing
      3. kNow
        kNow 27 August 2012 16: 59
        0
        Quote: Neutral
        In Armenia itself there are many mountains and plateaus, where even a vine grows with difficulty; there are many valleys there, and some of them are not particularly fertile, while others, on the contrary, are extremely fertile, for example the Araks plain, along which the Araks river flows to the borders of Albania, flowing into the Caspian Sea. Behind this plain is Sakasena, also bordering on Albania and on the river Kir; still further is Gogarena. This whole country is full of wild fruits and fruits of man-grown trees and evergreens; even an olive tree grows here. The province of Armenia is Favena, as well as Komisena and Orhistena, which exhibit the largest number of horsemen. Horzen and Cambisena are the most northern and most covered with snow; they are on the border with the Caucasus Mountains, Iberia and Colchis. "
        Strabo Geography. Book XI.

        I know you love my questions laughing and so - why does the whole world call you Armenians, the territory of Armenia, and you yourself are hai, and the territory - Hayastan? (don't laugh comrades)
        Here Russians are Russians, the territory of Russia, and the whole world calls them that. As well as us ...
  28. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 14: 47
    +1
    I answer David. David, no offense. Don’t be offended, I like talking facts. And so let's start with Derbend. So that the site administration does not consider it a lie and does not delete the RUSSIAN FACT.

    For example, if Armenians from ancient times lived in the Caucasus, on the territory of the present Republic of Armenia, then a large number of Armenian settlements and names should undoubtedly be indicated on Russian, English, German and other maps of the region. However, with a careful examination of maps of the 17-19th century, compiled by military cartographers, diplomats and researchers, nothing of the kind can be found. On the contrary: everywhere the Azerbaijani, Turkic names of settlements, mountains, rivers, and lakes are everywhere.

    For example, we turn to the "Map of hostilities in the Transcaucasian Territory from 1809 to 1817 with borders on the Gulistan Peace Treaty." (Tiflis, 1902, edited by Gen. Major Potto). This map was compiled by the Russian general and military cartographers in order to show the administrative and political situation in the regions that recently became part of the Russian Empire. The map shows Shirvan, Aderbeidzhan, the Khanate of Shusha or Karabakh, the Khanate of Erivan and other independent entities that became part of Russia. On the territory of present-day Armenia - then the Erivan Khanate, Gekcha Lake, Zangi River, Arpachai are indicated and there is not a single Armenian name.

    SEE DAVID DERBENT WHERE IT IS. I also wrote unfortunately deleted, the population of Derbend until the 1990s

    click on the map will increase
    1. Kamilla
      Kamilla 27 August 2012 14: 53
      +1
      many thanks for such detailed and truthful information)))))
    2. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 04
      +2
      Great map, Omar.
      Azerbaijan south of Araks.
      What was discussed.
      And with Dagestan borders the Kura and Cuban Khanates!
      Be careful.
      1. Kamilla
        Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 16
        0
        and who lived in the Kurin and Cuban Khanate ???????????? Fatali Khan ruled the Khanate ... and he was a Turk !!
  29. Yarbay
    Yarbay 27 August 2012 14: 48
    -2
    Again war?))))))))))
    Gentlemen, there are enough duels for today, the more David is not your opponent)))))))
    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 12
      +2
      "My friends.
      We conclude the debate.
      Moreover, Albai-oglu-Baba himself pulled himself up.
      Not even an hour, scolds you, but I worry laughing
  30. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 14: 57
    -2
    Further, more detailed maps of the lands conquered by Russia in the Caucasus have already been drawn up. Military cartographers moved one region at a time and applied more or less significant settlements, names of rivers, peaks, lakes and other geographical objects, since such cartographic accuracy is vital for both the military and the Russian authorities. Just look at the “Map of Tiflis, Elisavetpol and Erivan Provinces” (Engraved by S. Kurakin in 1899) to make sure that Despite the 70-90 years that had passed since the phased entry into the Russian Empire, by the beginning of the 20th century, 90% of all geographical names on the lands of present-day Armenia remained Azerbaijani and Turkic.

    http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20120827/WuP8EIBS.jpg



    An even more detailed and extensive map was compiled by the Caucasus Military District in 1903. This “Map of the Erivan Province” (Compiled and lithographed in the military topographic department of the Caucasus Military District, Tiflis, 1903) also confirms and shows to the smallest detail that almost all geographical and administrative names in Erivan province and in the most densely populated Novobayazetsky district by Armenians , have Azerbaijani and Turkic significance.

    http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20120827/qDVGI7VT.jpg

  31. Kamilla
    Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 04
    -1
    excellent) very good reliable sources)) where do you find them? do you have more
  32. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 15: 11
    0
    One can also recall Karabakh, which Armenian falsifiers often depict on the maps as “Artsakh”. The “General Map of Georgia”, compiled in 1823 in Russian and French, has been preserved, looking at which you can see which settlements and names are marked on the territory of the Karabakh and Erivan khanates.

    http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20120827/bC91evIj.jpg



    The names are entirely Azerbaijani, so the question arises: so where are the Armenian cities and villages "living under the oppression of the newly arrived nomads" - Ottoman Turks and Azerbaijani khans, what do Armenian historians write about?



    And we have a great many of these cards, and indeed in the free Internet space, even more of them are stored in Russian and other foreign archives.

    A reasonable question arises: if, according to Armenian historians, Armenians have lived in the Caucasus since ancient times, then why is there not a large number of Armenian settlements and geographical names on any serious, accurate map? After all, if Armenians have lived in our region for millennia, then this should have been preserved in the form of a huge array of administrative, topographic, geographical names, hydronyms and toponyms. However, after reading the maps of the 17-19 centuries. and older, we can make sure that most of the names have Turkic significance and this is evidenced by Russian, English, German, Dutch and other foreign sources.

    Armenian forgers avoid detailed accurate maps and try to rely on dubious “ancient” maps, where someone wrote the word “Armenia” (sometimes putting it anywhere: even higher than Derbent, in present-day Dagestan or in the center of Iran).

    David Azerbaijan where it is, carefully look at the cards. Zoom in and see who Derbend was listed in the 19th century. By the way, at the top, I wrote in error until the 90s Mechanical error.
    1. Kamilla
      Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 17
      -2
      yes Omar) that's right, a very good map!
  33. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 15: 18
    +2
    There is a “Map of the Caspian lands” (beginning of the XVII century), compiled by order of the first emperor of Russia - Peter I, who then captured the western Caspian lands from the Safavid Empire in the 20s of the XVIII century. Peter passionately loved and relied on the Armenians in his aggressive policy in the Caucasus, and therefore he cannot be accused of bias towards them. And if the Armenians played a significant role in the region, this would undoubtedly be reflected on this map, since Peter I intended to use the Armenians in the fight against Turkey.

    On this Petrovsky map, Irevan (now Yerevan) is indicated, which historically refers to Azerbaijan, which, according to the old tradition, is called the Latin word Media on the maps of the Middle Ages Media - Midia (even at Strabo, present-day Azerbaijan is referred to only as the Midian of Atropathy). There has never been any Armenia near Iravan or between the Araz and Kura rivers.

    In the interfluve of Araz and Kura, the cities of Barda (not “Partav”), the Karabakh region (and not “Artsakh”) with the central city and Astabad are clearly visible. Given that the concept of Media refers to Azerbaijan, and North Azerbaijan is also included in the map, it can be concluded that Shirvan, Karabakh and the entire Araz and Kura interfluve were historically denoted by the concept of Media - that is, Azerbaijan.

    In addition, the map clearly shows that the city of Derbent was part of Shirvan (region and state in Azerbaijan) and is not part of the geographical Dagestan.

    1. Kamilla
      Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 25
      +1
      yes that's right, Derbent has always been ours! and Karabakh too !!
      1. Neutral
        Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 26
        -1
        And your cabbage rolls are also yours laughing laughing laughing
        1. Kamilla
          Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 32
          -1
          cabbage rolls ... want to give you a present ... so be it! eat and remember us! when you stay without Karabakh ... yes
  34. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 15: 32
    -1
    David, did you doubt that our dolma? Wait a minute, now I’ll get to your alphabet. What did you write there in the 17th century that destroyed you?

    Let's go to the 16th century.

    The fact that the Safavid empire was created in Azerbaijan, that its capitals were here, was also noted by Soviet historical science, just look at the map “Safavid State in the 16th - early 18th centuries” to see the territory of Azerbaijan, its capital and understand its leading role in history of the East.




    Another Soviet map shows in detail the territory of the Azerbaijani state of the Salarids of the 10th century. It shows the territory of Azerbaijan from Derbent to Hamadan, from the current Armenian-Turkish border: Kars, Gyumri and to the province of Gilan.



    So David does not have to mislead people. You were not. You are created by Peter 1. Or do you think the Soviet and other scientists like the Turks went against you?

    On the Soviet map "The Caucasus of the First Half of the 19th Century" Azerbaijani khanates are indicated, step by step, annexed to Tsarist Russia and nowhere is any Armenian education indicated, since there was simply no mention of this.

  35. Kamilla
    Kamilla 27 August 2012 15: 38
    -1
    I say, let him call at least one Armenian ruler who ruled Armenia in the recent past .... he cannot! because there is no such thing !! but how much pathos!
    Summing up the topic, it can be stated that the overwhelming majority of Armenian arguments and facts regarding the antiquity of the history of Armenians in the Caucasus turn out to be fiction or well-furnished falsification, which leads to "nowhere" if checked for the source. The problem with serious primary sources is the “Achilles heel” of Armenian historical science and ideology, in connection with which it would be appropriate for scientists and specialists to check the sources and documents on which the myth of “Great Armenia” in the Caucasus is built. To this end, it would be possible to organize a study of the possibility of primary sources and archival materials, to which Armenian ideologists constantly refer in their claims to the land, culture, and history of neighboring peoples.
    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 15: 48
      -4
      How could the Armenian ruler rule Armenia, which, following the results of the Turkish-Persian war, was divided between these states in 1639?
      The exception was 5 Armenian melikovs that existed in Artsakh until the 18th century.
      Or do you think that the Turks and Persians would entrust the management of their land to the Armenians?
      Kama, tell me why in the Turkish school, there are still deputy national schools. directors must be Turks.
      Remind you of the words of Ataturk’s oath, with which a schoolboy is obliged to start in Turkey, of whatever nationality he was?
      Can you recall how many Armenian monuments you destroyed in Nakhichevan from the beginning of the 20th century?
      By the way, such a question for you and Omar.
      In Russia, near Rostov, in the beginning of the 18th century, the village of Nakhichevan was formed by Armenians, who now constitute one of the districts of Rostov-on-Don.
      Tell me, if Nakhichevan has anything to do with you, why did the Armenians who moved to Russia in the 18th century call their village like that?
      Apparently in memory of their Turkic "friends" who have managed to wipe out all the Christian heritage in the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic for 70 years.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 27 August 2012 15: 55
        -2
        Quote: Neutral
        Tell me, if Nakhichevan has anything to do with you, why did the Armenians who moved to Russia in the 18th century call their village like that?

        another meanness and dreams !!
      2. kNow
        kNow 27 August 2012 16: 56
        -2
        Neutral,
        illiterate you, david. And you don’t want to study.
  36. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 15: 42
    0
    I put Russian cards, especially so that it was clear that they were writing. There is no information anywhere that they existed on our lands. Nowhere!

    it is clear that there are no ties between the concepts of Armenia and Hayastan and the Armenian and Hayk. Naturally, all the inhabitants of Armenia from ancient times were called Armenians - residents of Armenia, but it is equally obvious that there is no continuity between today's Hayk Armenians and the ancient inhabitants of this area. Thus, the statement that the ancestors of present-day Armenians lived in these places since the first mention in the written sources of the concept “Armenian” is the same myth as the statement that the Armenians descended from Noah. But the claims of today's Armenians, who once settled here and lived compactly in the region for several centuries, over the entire territory of Armenia are based on precisely this kind of “justification”.

    The origin of the geographical name Armenia remains unclear even today, just as the time of resettlement of Hayks here remains unclear.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 27 August 2012 15: 48
      -1
      The XNUMXth century Russian Caucasian scholar I. Chopin also believed that “Armenians are aliens. It -
      the tribe of Phrygians and Ionians who crossed into the northern valleys of the Anatolian mountains. ”At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the luminaries of Armenians N. Adonts wrote: in the XNUMXth century BC in Thrace,
      in the Balkans, the Cimmerians, one of the "peoples of the sea", by definition of ancient Egypt, appeared
      written monuments. Here they came into contact with the ancestors of the Armenians, who were taken away with
      to the east - to Asia Minor
      The fact that the ancestral home of the Armenians is located outside the South Caucasus and even Asia Minor,
      writes an outstanding Russian scientist I. M. Dyakonov. Based on linguistic analysis of the tree
      non-Armenian language “revealed, first of all, that it is Indo-European. Thereby
      the question of the possible Urartian two-naturalness of the ancient Armenian language, the pre-ancient Armenian language, proto-Armenian language, could only be Indo-European, not related
      neither the Hurrit-Urartian languages, nor the Hutt, nor the modern Caucasian languages, nor the Semitic
      skim
      Further, I. M. Dyakonov states: “since the ancient Armenian language is not related
      to the languages ​​of the autochtones of the Armenian Highlands - Hurrit, Urartu, it is clear that he is brought here from outside "
      I came to similar conclusions in a special study on the “pre-Caucasian homeland” of Armenians
      famous Armenist G. A. Kapantsyan. So, he writes: “The location of the country of Hayas-Azzi is needed
      confine mainly to the space between the upper reaches of the Euphrates (= Kara-su), Chorokh and Arak-
      sa - that is - outside the Caucasus
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 27 August 2012 15: 53
        -1
        In the Caucasus, including in Northern Azerbaijan, this ethnic conglomerate in mass
        it was announced only in the XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries, that is, when it began to wave over the region
        Russian tricolor. The only thing that remains the same among Armenians is hostility towards each other,
        what the Armenian traveler Simeon Lehatsi wrote in the XNUMXth century
        which Armenian mi-
        Grants brought with them to the South Caucasus. That’s why, 200 years after Simeon Lehatsi,
        at the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, it was noted: the Armenians of Tiflis, Akulis, Elizabethpol,
        Rabag, Akhaltsikhe and Akhalkalaki "almost do not understand each other and marriages between them
        extremely rare "
        . According to another testimony: “Catholic Armenians, people of the same race with Armenians,
        Gregorians, always higher than the latter: smarter, more moral, less unloved by neighbors ”
        According to the observations of A. S. Griboedov, the Armenian immigrants from the Iranian state “are much
        more useful than our Georgian Armenians, in general traders, who do not bring any benefit to the treasury:
        those who came from Persia for the most part are artisans and farmers ”
        N. Dubrovin noted: “Being in the citizenship of various states and scattered, you can
        throughout the world, the Armenian tribe, subject to a different climate,
        lifestyle and occupation, has lost its general typicality "
        . In this regard, there is a remark
        S.P. Zelinsky: the Armenians, who appeared at different times in Garabagh, did not understand each other's language
        ku; “The main difference between the Armenians of different localities of Zangezur is the dialects in which
        they talk about. There are almost as many dialects as there are districts or individual villages ”
  37. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 16: 06
    -1
    Quote Neutral: Tell me, if Nakhichevan has anything to do with you, why did the Armenians who moved to Russia in the 18th century call their village like that?


    David you wrote beautifully. I am answering you.
    Why did you call Armavir a city which is located 35 km from Yerevan?
    I know a million percent that sooner or later the Russians will have a headache for this, since you will ask for autonomy. You’ll say we live here for 100 years, so this is the land of our ancestors.

    You always do that. Is always!
    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 16: 52
      -1
      Lobster.
      You do not answer, because you have nothing to answer.
      Because Nakhichevan is an Armenian land.
      That's why they called it.
      And the Russians did not try to take anything from us.
      And they did not try to lime us as a nation, under the root.
      Welcome we remember.
      Evil does not forgive.
      If we say in the context of the article, then after this speech of Tkachev, the Adygs and Armenians proposed to include their representatives in Cossack patrols.
      1. kNow
        kNow 27 August 2012 17: 04
        0
        Quote: Neutral
        Because Nakhichevan is an Armenian land.

        In the Nakhichevan region, I found even more disorder and oppression from the resettlement of Armenians than in Erivan. Your Excellency knows how scarce the former inhabitants are and how poor this province is. Here, the Armenians, the aliens, are better than in another place where I met them; but fermentation and displeasure in the minds of the Tartars reaches the highest degree. ... It can very easily happen that they desperately abandon their household and property, and then in vain we will attribute this to Persian suggestions, as recently happened during the flight of the Sadarakians. Griboedov.
  38. Volodin
    27 August 2012 16: 09
    +5
    I begin to get the impression that the comments are reduced to the establishment of who is cooler, Azerbaijanis or Armenians. Guys, cool down already.
    1. bye
      bye 27 August 2012 16: 13
      +3
      Quote: Volodin
      comments boil down to stating what's cooler, Azerbaijanis or Armenians

      Maybe create a separate thread for them, I made a decision for myself not to take part in these "... measured disputes" while I hold on ... :)
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 16: 17
        +3
        I don’t understand, and who Lehu minusanul, well come out and look at you, touch am
        1. bye
          bye 27 August 2012 17: 05
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          I don’t understand, and who Lehu minusanul, well come out and look at you, touch

          Sanya, I'd better bring the object myself to "feel", I think you won't get any pleasure from what you have proposed :)
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 17: 44
            +1
            Quote: bye
            San, I'd better bring the object myself to "feel",

            Only not inflatable and not rubber wassat
            1. bye
              bye 27 August 2012 18: 03
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Only not inflatable and not rubber

              I will send a photo before presentation hi
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 27 August 2012 16: 32
        +2
        Quote: bye
        I made a decision for myself

        In fact, as far as I remember, you promised us kirdyk after the debauchery of one user under the nickname talatpasha)))
        But I am glad that you, my esteemed man, buried an ax of war in the land))) !!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 16: 39
          +2
          Quote: Yarbay
          You my dear man buried an ax of war in the ground

          Quote: Yarbay
          You my dear man buried an ax of war in the land))

          All tapor is buried and there is no warrior. Peace-world. drinks
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 27 August 2012 16: 41
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            World Peace.

            Alex is one of the most respected people of mine !!
            Even if he hits me with an ax, I would rather bleed, but I won’t answer !!
        2. bye
          bye 27 August 2012 17: 33
          +2
          Quote: Yarbay
          In fact, as far as I remember, you promised us kirdyk after the debauchery of one user under the nickname talatpasha)))

          Then I had a meeting with friends, they chose a cafe near the metro, sat peacefully, then music (national wassat ) got it, peacefully asked to decrease the volume, in response ... measurement, there are a lot of them but we are more united, personally I broke the freak, what kind of knife I took, I pulled two chairs and jump ... From here and everything else ...
          Alibek, now there is no enmity ... Sorry, I was wrong ...
          Got a device (on the last day from which emoticons can be set laughing Mike, God grant you a non-drinking husband wassat
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 17: 43
            +2
            Quote: bye
            personally broke a freak’s hand,

            So that’s why Oslo Militia is on the tail laughing
            Quote: bye
            Mike, God grant you a non-drinking husband

            And hooked, probably not the last time. Take a house in Oslo wassat
            1. bye
              bye 27 August 2012 17: 45
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              So that’s why Oslo Militia is on the tail

              No, it's purely business
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              And hooked, probably not the last time. Take a house in Oslo

              what an ulcer are you laughing I gave Apple apple and I put emoticons ... By the way, I also made a gift for her, not a weak one soldier
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 18: 00
                +1
                Quote: bye
                I gave Apple apple and I put emoticons ... By the way, I also made a gift for her, not a weak one

                Ohhh, but this is reciprocity love I feel like you will become Norway wassat
                1. bye
                  bye 27 August 2012 18: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Ohhh, but this is reciprocity

                  it’s a fee for ... I didn’t in vain hold it on my hands ... laughing
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  I feel like you will become Norway

                  Nah..y, let them eat their cod without me wassat
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 27 August 2012 17: 53
              +1
              and who is Mike?))) I hardly drink and can get married)))))))))))
              4 wives I should)))
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 17: 57
                +1
                Quote: Yarbay
                and who is Mike

                Alibek, what can I tell you, I envy some, I envy laughing
                Quote: Yarbay
                4 Wives I Must

                In, there are people in the world, I got fed alone. Tomorrow morning I will draw am
              2. bye
                bye 27 August 2012 18: 08
                +1
                Quote: Yarbay
                and who is Mike?))) I hardly drink and can get married)))))))))))

                Alibek, this is a long and scary story of how a simple Russian man can get into a network of schemers. But in fact:
                Maya, Norwegian, 22 years old, height somewhere 177 cm, weight somewhere 60 kg, beautiful, owner of the store "Sports goods, Clothes, Shoes" with an income of about 50 euros per month, wants a real man ... Kind, gentle, skillful feel
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 18: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: bye
                  22 years old, height somewhere 177 cm, weight somewhere 60 kg, beautiful, the owner of the store "Sports goods, Clothes, Footwear" with an income of about 50 euros per month, wants a real man ... Kind, gentle, skillful

                  In short, I went to get a visa to Norway feel
                  1. bye
                    bye 27 August 2012 18: 14
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    In short, I went to get a visa to Norway

                    Sanya, I'll give you a better password from the mail laughing In two days you will understand that this is a monster wassat
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 18: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: bye
                      Sanya, I'll give you a better password from the mail

                      Already MOOD has risen laughing
                      Quote: bye
                      In two days you will understand that this is a monster

                      After three days wassat I will be in Norway already
                      1. bye
                        bye 27 August 2012 18: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        In three days I will be in Norway

                        Bon Voyage!!! Do you want to eat three times more expensive than in Mosca, drink vodka 10 times more than in Moscow and buy figures of trolls and Vikings, sweaters and gloves, then GREAT NORWAY !!! laughing Cheaper, get fucked at home !!! Checked !!! True earned more than missed, friend helped hi Stas and Anya HELLO !!! Watch this free Thanksgiving !!! laughing
                      2. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 27 August 2012 18: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: bye
                        Do you want to eat three times more expensive than in Mosca, drink vodka 10 times more expensive than in Moscow and buy figures of trolls and Vikings, sweaters and gloves then GREAT NORWAY !!!

                        Here you are always in a barrel of honey, throw a spoonful of tar. Only going to dream laughing
                      3. REPA1963
                        REPA1963 27 August 2012 22: 36
                        +1
                        Is he going to drink vodka there? Is that all?
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 27 August 2012 17: 52
            -1
            Quote: bye
            Then I had a meeting with friends,

            Yes, I'm joking)))))))))))))))))))))
            1. bye
              bye 27 August 2012 18: 09
              +2
              Quote: Yarbay
              Yes, I'm joking)))))))))))))))))))))

              Oh well, it's nice to talk with you hi
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic 27 August 2012 16: 45
        +6
        Quote: bye
        Maybe I can create a separate thread for them, I made a decision for myself not to take part in these "... measured disputes" as long as I hold on ..


        Yes, let us argue for ourselves to think about it first of all, ..
        1. bachast
          bachast 27 August 2012 17: 23
          +4
          Oh Ascetic, this video will not add a positive. "Psychologist" - the author did not leave these frames for nothing. We have nothing. The country is dying ... You can kill with these words, but not awaken .. (despite the fact that this is not true .)




          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 27 August 2012 17: 56
            +4
            .
            Quote: bachast
            With these words you can kill, but not awaken .. (despite the fact that this is not true.)


            The time of convictions has passed, it is necessary to "morally kill" if they do not change their minds. And in an amicable way, in addition to convictions and videos, articles for parasitism and vagrancy, also restore the system forced treatment(or isolation is not the point) from drug addiction and alcoholism.
            sodomy and the promotion of homosexuality, prostitution, etc. and on mandatory work.. such an army will pick up that the need for Gaster will be sharply reduced
      4. Apollo
        Apollo 27 August 2012 17: 25
        +3
        Quote: bye
        Maybe create a separate thread for them, I made a decision for myself not to take part in these "... measured disputes" while I hold on ... :)


        I support Alex so that no one is offended !!! good
      5. esaul
        esaul 27 August 2012 19: 00
        +2
        Quote: Volodin
        I begin to get the impression that the comments are reduced to the establishment of who is cooler, Azerbaijanis or Armenians. Guys, cool down already.


        Absolutely correct remark, Alexey. What the article says is let down by gentlemen on the side of the Armenian-Azerbaijani dispute.

        Lord gentlemen! You encourage your comments on the supremacy of nations and land ownership to be removed. Find out your relationship elsewhere.
        1. bye
          bye 27 August 2012 20: 07
          0
          Quote: esaul
          You encourage your comments on the supremacy of nations and land ownership to be removed. Find out your relationship elsewhere.

          From Esabol erupted and everyone immediately began to live peacefully. Ghoul, and it’s not easier not to post provocative articles, and sometimes a neighbor on the head to fool around? Well duck except slogans and repost news zero square we see winked I cut off a normal forum member, a dock in air issues and ..., dragging ghouls until September 20 did not last long am
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 27 August 2012 16: 35
      0
      Alexey!
      Quote: Volodin

      My impression is beginning to appear that the comments come down to establishing what is cooler, Azerbaijanis or Armenians.

      This is because you do not feel the pain that we feel !!

      Quote: Volodin
      Guys cool down already

      Is it possible to cool to the homeland, to the native land ??
    3. kNow
      kNow 27 August 2012 16: 54
      +1
      Volodin,
      sitting here alone - David the restless, even managed to turn Breivik's discussion into a discussion of Azerbaijan, however, as well as this topic ... Moreover, the same thing is repeated in 50 rounds ...
    4. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 17: 01
      -1
      Alex.
      I know if you need an answer to a question, you yourself will look for it and find it. Those. form your own opinion on the issue you are interested in. Unfortunately, not everyone knows how to do this.
      My comments on the site began in April of this year.
      They were connected with the fact that Omar, who is now known as Ataturk, wrote that Armenians were not killed in Sumgait. There was no "bloody bacchanalia" of February 1988, in his words.
      Those. he wrote a lie.
      Moreover, he actively defended it.
      And many, reading his point of view, took it as a given, because it was too lazy to look for the answers themselves.
      That is why I am discussing with representatives of Azerbaijan.
      They really love to tell a lie.
      I have nothing against them and sunny Azerbaijan, until it turns into anti-Armenian hysteria.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 27 August 2012 18: 33
        0
        Quote: Neutral
        They were connected with the fact that Omar, who is now known as Ataturk, wrote that Armenians were not killed in Sumgait. There was no "bloody bacchanalia" of February 1988, in his words

        No one says it was not!
        The thing is that it was organized by the Armenians and one of the organizers was Eduard Grigoryan !!
        Which he killed on the 5th and worn out in a group with his bandits of three Armenians!
        1. Neutral
          Neutral 27 August 2012 18: 37
          +2
          You are lying.
          And often.
          Watch here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6816184241312524821&hl=en
          I remember you said something about Kirovobad.
          About November 1988.
          They say he was there, quietly calm.
          Take a look.
          And don't dirty yourself with lies.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 27 August 2012 18: 39
            -1
            Quote: Neutral

            You are lying.
            And often

            I didn’t understand, didn’t you say that Grigoryan’s mother is not Armenian?)))))))
            and dad left him)))))))))))))))))
            There was no Grigoryan ??))))
            Didn’t kill the Armenians in Sumgait?
            Did not rape Manukyan his neighbor ??
            At the in-person meeting, she did not recognize him?)))
            After all, everything is documented, including by the employees of the investigative bodies of the KGBSSSR !!)))
            And he was not the only one from the Armenians!
            Honor Philip Bobkov, Deputy Pred KGB USSR !!
            Galkin Investigation Team Leader !!
            read the interview with the prosecutor Katusev!
            1. Neutral
              Neutral 27 August 2012 19: 00
              0
              His mother is not Armenian.
              Father abandoned them.
              About killing - I do not know. At least they did not blame him for the murder.
              Raped.
              I did not see the meeting in person.
              The key point is that everything is documented.
              Sentenced for Sumgait pogroms - 90 people.
              84 - ethnic Azerbaijanis.
              As an organizer, only one ok was shot - an Azerbaijani named Akhmetov.
              Put Galkin right here. Especially in the part where he will say that the Armenians themselves did it.
              Only you shish that lay out. Because you're lying.
              Your little ranger, no matter how he tried, never pulled Grigoryan onto the organizer. He even created his own website, on which he posted the criminal case materials for a group of 6 people, 5 Azerbaijanis and Grigoryan. Anyone can go to this site and familiarize themselves.
              And then tell you in the face -YE DID, Alibek.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 27 August 2012 21: 06
                0
                Well, well, David)))))))) without nerves)))
                Eduard Grigoryan was a recidivist and organizer of the Sumgayit events !!
                And his father did not abandon him, but died of a serious and prolonged illness!
                - We can get the answer to this question from the indictment of criminal case No. 18 / 55461-88, which says that Grigoryan Eduard Robertovich was born on December 16, 1959, is a native of Sumgayit, an Armenian, non-partisan, married, has two dependent minors children, registered at the address: Sumgayit city, 2nd microdistrict, Mira street 19 \ 13, apartment 20. actually lived at the address: Sumgayit city, 1st microdistrict, house 122, apartment 71. He worked as a mechanic of mill 140 at an Azerbaijan pipe rolling plant . He was tried. For the first time, on December 17, 1976, the Sumgait City Court, under article 201, part 3 of the Criminal Code of the Azerbaijan SSR, was sentenced to 3 years probation.
                The second time - on January 30, 1981, the Sumgayit City Court, under Article 105 of the Criminal Code of the Azerbaijan SSR, was sentenced to 1 year of corrective labor with a deduction of 20% of earnings.
                The third time, on April 5, 1982, the Sumgayit City Court, under article 108, part 2, article 143, part 2, article 215, part 2, and 215 of the Criminal Code of the Azerbaijan SSR, was sentenced to 5 years, 2 months and 13 days in prison. As we see, we have before us a criminal element that has set foot on the road of crime at the age of 17. It was on such kind of elements that the forces interested in provocations have always relied on in order to destabilize the situation in a particular country in the world.

                Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to 1news.az
                and here is the interrogation of Eduard Grigoryan !!
                http://video.mail.ru/mail/alik-movlamov/10051/10184.html
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 27 August 2012 21: 17
                  -2
                  Move on))))
                  Naturally, during this press conference, not a word was said about the crimes committed by Eduard Grigoryan. Although, here’s what is said in the Criminal Case: “About the actions of the accused Grigoryan E.R. in their apartment, the victim Mezhlumyan L.G. explained on August 29, 1988 and March 9, 1988: When I was raped, I lost consciousness several times ... When I woke up, I saw that I was again on the bed, there was no mattress, the pillow was on the floor, and Grigoryan, whom I recognized, was lying on me Eduard Robertovich, whom I confidently recognized. Lying on me, he had sexual intercourse with me in the usual way, I felt it well ... " And here is another episode. “The accused Safarov Nizami Sumbat oglu of the charge against him on February 20, 1989, partially pleaded guilty to this episode and explained:“ ... Edik Grigoryan kicked the owner in this apartment, raped Lyudmila and, if I'm not mistaken, Karina searched values, scattering the unnecessary around. " In the criminal case there is also the testimony of the injured Petrosyan, Sh. M, whom Grigoryan beat with an ax butt. But, of course, in Armenia they prefer to forget about these facts and keep silent.


                  Details: http://1news.az/interview/20100601101211215.html
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 27 August 2012 21: 34
                    -1
                    move on)))))
                    from the indictment:
                    -Grigoryan Eduard Robertovich according to Articles 67,72,94 p.p. 2,6,7,15,94 p.p. 2,8,109ch3 of the Criminal Code of the AzSSSR - that is, agitation with the aim of inciting national hostility and hatred[/ b], direct participation in the riots, accompanied by pogroms, destruction, arsons and other similar actions; intentional murder from hooligan motives, with particular cruelty associated with rape and with the aim of concealing the crime; attempted murder out of hooligan motives committed by a person who had previously committed a murdered murder; rape, that is, sexual intercourse with the use of physical violence, threats, using the helpless state of the victim, a perfect group of people and a person who has previously committed such a crime!


                    and here is the whole thing to whom it is interesting to let him read what a jackal this Grigoryan was!
                    in the case everything is described in detail the crimes of the gang of Grigoryan!

                    http://www.sumgayit1988.com/files/cinayat1.pdf
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 27 August 2012 22: 10
                      -1
                      from an interview with Aslon Ismayilov, the public prosecutor at the trial: Of course. But, besides this, the reasons for the apparent insanity of the participants in the riots are found in their testimonies, from which it becomes clear that a similar effect among the participants in the riots arose after E. Grigoryan distributed the pills to them. At the trial, video recordings of evidence confirming what was said were demonstrated. I made some notes about these videos in my notebook. In one of these videos, the confrontation of the accused Isaev with Huseynov was recorded. Isaev showed the following: "Edik handed out pills to everyone, after using which he felt a surge of strength." As you can see, E. Grigoryan handed out pills to the participants of the Sumgayit events with the goal of causing a surge of strength, euphoria. All the accused admitted that after taking the pills they felt a surge of strength, became more courageous and decisive. In addition, I especially want to note that from the materials of confrontations it becomes obvious that it was he who was the leader: he led all the accused, gave them instructions, it was he who had a list of Armenian families. It can be seen from the video tapes that the investigative actions are carried out completely freely, the participants in the riots expose each other, try to cover up the traces of atrocities, trying to shield themselves, and often insult each other. In these episodes, Grigoryan threatens everyone, he reminds the injured Armenians who expose him that he himself is also an Armenian
                      But as soon as the turn came to Grigoryan, the sisters, not hiding their excitement and indignation, immediately recognized him, indicating that he was the main figure. Volume 2, sheets of the case 83-103, contain testimonies of L. Mezhlumyan: “I saw Grigoryan well. He was pale. I thought he was Lezgin. On the hand was written "Rome" or "Rita." Indeed, E. Grigoryan does not look like an Armenian at all, which is also evident from the photograph presented in the book “Sumgayit: the beginning of the collapse of the USSR”. It could be mistaken for a Russian or a Lezgin. Therefore, with the exception of particularly close ones, everyone in his circle took Grigoryan for Lezgin. In addition, E. Grigoryan spoke purely Azerbaijani, which also suggested that he was not Armenian.

                      Details: http://www.1news.az/interview/20110127094816092.html#page2
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 27 August 2012 22: 18
                        -3
                        but what actually happened during the process from an interview with Aslanov:

                        On the second floor, one door was located directly along the way, and on the right side of the corridor there were several other doors. One of the doors was open and someone was there. The young people accompanying me pointed to the open door, from where this man called. We entered the room and asked him to introduce himself. He answered in Russian and in a very rude manner: "What is it to you?" I said that I was an employee of the Prosecutor's Office of the Republic, and again asked him to introduce himself.
                        Then he said: "If you are an employee of the Prosecutor's Office of the Republic, then go and command there, here you have no right to demand anything." But, sensing the tension of the situation, he pulled out an ID from his pocket. He said that he is an employee of the KGB of the Azerbaijan SSR. When I tried to take and look at the certificate, he did not give it. Later it turned out that in front of me was really an officer of the KGB of the Azerbaijan SSR, an Armenian by the name of Tsaturyan.
                        With the help of two young people accompanying me, who took him by the arms, we tried to escort him to the president of the court. But he began to resist, asked what I want to do. I answered: "Let's go to the chairman of the court." And if before that he showed resistance, then, having heard where we want to go with him, he immediately relaxed and agreed.
                        In the chairman’s office, I explained that this person interferes with the process, intervenes in the case, and illegally meets with Grigoryan. And he even firmly stated that he was meeting with other arrested people, so he asked him to find out what the KGB officer, an ethnic Armenian, was doing in the Supreme Court building during the trial. 
                        Huseyn Talibov was familiar with me and resolutely said: "Don't worry, I'll find out." But until now I do not know, neither the fate of this episode, nor what the chairman found out and what conclusion he came to.

                        http://www.1news.az/interview/20110131100323551.html#page1
                      2. Neutral
                        Neutral 28 August 2012 01: 17
                        -2
                        You, Alibek, seem to be blissing out, poking around in Grigoryan’s dirty laundry.
                        Only it’s not clear that you get your hands dirty.
                        Edik handed out the pills to the participants of the events. You just can’t enter in any way, that another five Azerbaijanis are going through with him in the case, and there are 90 people involved in the events. The remaining 84 suspects Edik never saw.
                        In the Supreme Court of the USSR (and not the Azerbaijani SSR - to which you refer) - the episode with Grigoryan was not even considered.
                        Nobody took this foolish criminal seriously.
                        And only the Azerbaijanis, who so far have not been able to understand how it suddenly turned into a herd of animals, clung to him as a miserable opportunity to make excuses.
                        I will not spread the diaries of the trial in the Supreme Court of the USSR on the events in Sumgait here. If desired, they can easily be found on the Internet.
                        I will not write the horrors of those events, out of respect for people who are no longer there.
                        But you remember, Alibek, we all walk under God.
                        He will ask everyone.
                        And from you, for your lies, will also ask.
                        After all, you are not mistaken when you write about Grigoryan, you mock.
                        And this is your essence.
                        Therefore, none of you have asked forgiveness so far.
                        So I’m telling you in the end and in person - YOU DID, Alibek.
                      3. Kamilla
                        Kamilla 28 August 2012 08: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: Neutral
                        I will not write the horrors of those events, out of respect for people who are no longer there.
                        But you remember, Alibek, we all walk under God.
                        He will ask everyone.
                        And from you, for your lies, will also ask.


                        That's it, first of all Armenians from you !!!


                        Quote: Neutral
                        After all, you are not mistaken when you write about Grigoryan, you mock.
                        And this is your essence.


                        it’s your rotten essence ... it’s you who scoffed when we talked about Khojaly !! you mock when we talk about bloody January ... you! this is your Armenian essence, appear here and provoke users with Azerbaijani flags ...!

                        it's you SLAVE David ... and what else!
                      4. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 28 August 2012 13: 35
                        0
                        [quote = Neutral] In the Supreme Court of the USSR (and not the Azerbaijani SSR - to which you refer) - the episode with Grigoryan was not even considered.
                        [/ quote] / quote]

                        and if it wasn’t considered, then only with the goal of hiding it from the public! After all, until recently you thought that Grigoryan was invented by Buniyatov and many Armenians still think so!

                        But he was one of the ORGANIZERS and the video clearly shows that he was not a jerk, but was very dangerous and quite well prepared !!


                        [quote = Neutral] And only the Azerbaijanis, who still have not been able to understand how it suddenly turned into a herd of animals, clung to him as a miserable opportunity to make excuses [/ quote]

                        Firstly, you Armenians turned into a HUNT OF BARANS when, even before the events in Sumgayit, you started the process of expelling Azerbaijanis from Armenia and killing Azerbaijanis there!
                        The expelled Azerbaijanis were placed in Sumgait and in Baku, and they began to provoke them with such nonhumans like Grigoryan!
                        There were many like Grigoryan, only FIVE were caught !!
                        Remember, you used to say that there was no Grigoryan at all, and now he is a moron for you)) no, he was a jackal, prepared by the Armenians!

                        quote = Neutral] Therefore, none of you have asked forgiveness so far. [/ quote]

                        It is for you to apologize to us and as soon as possible !!
                        Then it will be too late!
  39. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 16: 54
    +1
    Ascetic - oh yes it's super. Plus for you)))
  40. darkman70
    darkman70 27 August 2012 17: 46
    +2
    I did not like Putin’s speech. No way.
    It is clear that migrants will continue to uncontrollably populate Russia, but Russians are not needed there. Apparently, the authorities believe that the more Russians, the more dangerous for them. The resettlement program turned out to be zilch, an appearance of activity. And migrants from Asian countries are meek, agree to a lower salary, do not require medical care and leave, etc.
    About three months ago there was a message that they would give a simplified growth. citizenship, then a message that they will give citizenship to Russians. Now all this has died out, silence. Most of my classmates and classmates left for permanent residence in the USA and Canada. It is easier for Russians to leave and get a job there than to Russia. Paradox. Russians are not needed in Russia. In which state is there still such a "national" government ??? It's just a shame !!!!
    1. REPA1963
      REPA1963 27 August 2012 22: 34
      +2
      And who said that it is national?
  41. Ataturk
    Ataturk 27 August 2012 18: 02
    +1
    Neutral
    David, you're lying again. Before talking about Sumgait, tell me what happened in Armenia a couple of months before Sumgait.

    Tell us about the Armenian who set everyone on the murder and that his trial in Baku was open and then he was extradited and how the trial went and what happened to him to this day in secret.

    And so here everything is explained in detail. It's a lie? Where exactly?



    Quote: darkman70 The very name of Nakhchivan is of Armenian origin. It’s not necessary to read the story selectively, but completely.)


    DIDN'T TIRED THE ARMENIANS TO LIE THE PUBLIC?

    Another Armenian historian appeared. Then tell me smart are you ours who is Khan Hussein Nakhichevan (I re-write the name, HUSSEIN, BY OUR HUSSEIN and not ASHOT or VAZGEN or ANDRANIK and HUSSEIN) and if it’s not difficult for you to tell who his grandfather was, and most importantly in what year he died, and then tell me, this family had how many dynasties. And then we'll talk.

    1. Neutral
      Neutral 27 August 2012 18: 18
      +1
      Lobster.
      Why are you dirtying yourself with this dirty lie?
      If you don’t really know what was in Sumgait, what I doubt, look here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6816184241312524821&hl=en
      This is a documentary film, not a film, sponsored by "Production Association" SUMGAITKHIMPROM "
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 27 August 2012 18: 34
        0
        Quote: Neutral
        sponsorship of the "Production Association" SUMGAITKHIMPROM "

        and who should sponsor ??
        Etchmiadzin or Voskopalata ??)))
        1. Neutral
          Neutral 27 August 2012 18: 44
          -2
          How do you say: "Whoever eats a woman, dances her"
          No comments
          ... When Gorbachev, "who was late with the introduction of troops to Sumgait by 3 hours", is buried, take him to your alley of "heroes". He must lead it.
          1. Kamilla
            Kamilla 28 August 2012 11: 29
            +1
            Quote: Neutral
            .When Gorbachev, who was late with the introduction of troops to Sumgait by 3 hours, is buried, take him to your alley of "heroes". He must lead it.


            here you are a bastard all the same !! and say do not mock ??? take it yourself ... and his wife! which received a diamond necklace from your Catholicos ... and after a while, the issue of Karabakh’s accession to Armenia was raised !!! Yes, you should erect a monument to this bloody Bear if it weren’t for him ... there wouldn’t be any war, the Karabakh Armenians would never raise the issue of tearing away from Az-na!
    2. darkman70
      darkman70 27 August 2012 22: 17
      +3
      )))) Well, what are you really.)
      I am not Armenian and not Azerbaijani, I am Russian - a completely neutral person in this regard. He was just fond of the history of the Caucasus at one time.
      And here is Adjutant General Nakhichevan ??? His ancestor named Kengerli became the khan of Nakhichevan in 1749. What is this talking about? About nothing.
      Nakhchivan was founded in the 6 century BC
      In the VI-IV centuries. BC e. city ​​- as part of the Persian satrapy “Armenia”, in the 3rd century BC e. as part of Atropatena mussels. At the beginning of the II century BC. e. as part of the Basorepida (Vaspurakan) region, it was annexed to Great Armenia by King Artashes I, was the center of the eponymous havar (district), which belonged to the nahang (province) of Vaspurakan and since then remained part of Armenia until the fall of this kingdom at the beginning of the 5th century AD e. The scientist and monk Mesrop Mashtots from the end of the IV century conducted active preaching work in the Gavar Gokhtn and Yerndzhak near Nakhichevan, after which he faced the need to translate the Bible into Armenian, for understanding by the local population.
      The Armenian historian of the 4th-5th centuries Favstos Buzand tells that in the 1st century BC e. the Armenian king Tigran the Great settled the Jews removed from Palestine in Nakhichevan, and in 369, the Persian king Shapur II, during the invasion of Armenia, took Nakhichevan and brought “two thousand Armenian families and 16 thousand Jewish families” to Persia, etc. ..
      Seljuk Turks appeared in those parts and began the conquest of Armenia only in 1049, led by Togrul-bey. I.e Turks appeared in Nakhichevan when the Armenians lived there for 13 (thirteen) centuries. What can I argue about here?)
      1. Kamilla
        Kamilla 28 August 2012 10: 16
        -1
        and where did you read all this? on Armenian sites ?? and if you delve deeply, where did anyone live ... what can one get to. eg:

        Armenia Second, east of Cilicia131 near the Taurus Mountains, has 3 mountains, 4 rivers and 2 passages to Syria132. {33}

        Armenia First, east of the First Cappadocia, adjacent to the Second Armenia, borders Efrat to the east. {34} It comprises Mount Argeos ('Αργαΐος), the Galis River and 30 small rivers.

        Third Armenia, east of Cappadocia, stretches in length along the Ephrat; In addition, it has 2 more rivers and 22 high mountains
        ??????????? and how many were Armenians? and as you can see, this is just the name of the area ....

        Scythia 204, i.e. Apakhtark, the same as the Turks starts from the Ethilia River, stretches to Mount Emavona ('Ιμαος), and after it extends to the country of Chenov. Mount Hamavon is higher and longer than all mountains. 44 peoples live in Scythia: Sogd (), Tukhara, Ephthalites () and other peoples with barbaric names. There are many mountains, large rivers, desert plains, a hot and waterless region in which a fiery field lies. Sogd live between Aria and Turkistan. They are rich, industrial () and engaged in trade ..... which was required to prove that in ancient times we inhabited the territory of Azerbaijan ..... since the Scythians, Huns, and Sumerians ... these are Turkic tribes !! and the Seljuk Turks appeared much later!


        But with Armenia, everything is somehow confusing ... is it like in a good old joke, where is Armenia ...? she is everywhere winked

        and then, dear, do Moldovans live on their land ?? neighbors have no complaints? or do you have neighbors? I doubt it ... I am well acquainted with both Romanians and Moldavians, I happened to ... and I heard about your territorial claims.

        By the way, this is an Armenian site ...http://www.vehi.net/istoriya/armenia/geographiya/04.html


        Pardon, dar vreau sa intreb .... care problema? pentru voi? request
        1. darkman70
          darkman70 29 August 2012 00: 49
          +1
          Dear, I do not read any Armenian sites, not Azerbaijani ones. They are not interesting to me, since nationalism in them puts pressure on historical science.
          There is nothing confusing with Armenia, for those who want to sort it out, and not look for confirmation of their claims to any territory.
          What kind of territorial claims do Moldova have, ask the Moldovans, I do not belong to them. And about the one who lived where, then I'm sorry, this Ataturk started. Or you notice only that. what do you want to see ?. The fact that the Armenians lived there before the Turks is a historical fact. What you will continue to do with this is your business, it does not concern me and I am not going to offer anything. By and large, I don’t care how you end up there. I hope this is clear? And I want to give you advice before writing something about the history of your land, you need to at least know this story. And it is advisable not to use Azerbaijani sources after the 1991 of the year. (As well as Armenian)
  42. kush62
    kush62 27 August 2012 19: 21
    +3
    Russians! Not tired of constantly reading the showdowns of our good neighbors from Azerbaijan and Armenia? May ask the site administration to provide them with separate territory for peaceful showdowns.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 27 August 2012 23: 46
      +2
      Quote: kush62
      Russians! Not tired of constantly reading the showdowns of our good neighbors from Azerbaijan and Armenia? May ask the site administration to provide them with separate territory for peaceful showdowns.
      It’s a good idea, otherwise this David craps about 50 times already!
    2. Odessa
      Odessa 27 August 2012 23: 51
      +1
      kush62,
      separate territory for peaceful showdowns.

      You can open a topic on the forum and chat there.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 27 August 2012 23: 56
        +2
        Quote: Odessa
        You can open a topic on the forum and chat there.

        10 times I promised myself to go past these showdowns, because I thought and believe that I gave enough information to local users, but every time I see these attempts to falsify the past, I can not resist!
        Therefore, I agree with you!
  43. REPA1963
    REPA1963 27 August 2012 22: 32
    0
    And that the truth was a POWERFUL NEGATIVE WAVE I did not hear something, in my opinion the author goes too far.
  44. Ataturk
    Ataturk 28 August 2012 00: 19
    0
    Nakhichevan, when the Armenians lived there for 13 centuries

    Can you provide me with documents or facts confirming your words?
    Even if we take the fact that they lived there and are now trying to restore their country, then let's divide the whole world? Let's remember who lived where, we say from Altai and the Tatars, and maybe then we can take the whole of Tatarstan? Or a 50 million nation fell from the moon, but the "ancient Armenians" with 7 million in the world, then in Persia, then in the Ottoman Empire, then in Azerbaijan, even Georgia.

    WILL IT NOT BE TOO FAT FOR 7 MILLION NATIONS? They say that 1.5 million were destroyed, well, 9 ... And if I count how many Turks died, didn’t you think that the figure would go wild?
    1. darkman70
      darkman70 28 August 2012 00: 46
      0
      Ataturk
      But do I propose something to divide or take away? I’m just stating a fact of history. By the way, in Transcaucasia, in general, such an ancient history and such a jumble of peoples took place that there is almost no territory where it can be said with certainty that this territory 100% belongs to this nation, and this one. So, I don’t really envy you, to be honest.) There the best option is a big state. uniting all local nations. Well .. it's in my opinion, and so you figure it out.)
  45. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 28 August 2012 01: 01
    +1
    Putin doesn’t give a damn about native, Russians, Tatars, Mordovians, he needs to increase the number of Russians to 154 million by 2050, which means that almost 60 million (by then) should be taken from somewhere. By the way, the population of Central Asia is about that much.
    1. darkman70
      darkman70 28 August 2012 17: 54
      0
      Why 60 Million? Now 143. It turns out 11 million is needed.
      1. Mr. Truth
        Mr. Truth 29 August 2012 19: 51
        0
        darkman70,
        because the population of the Russian Federation without fertility stimulation will decrease by as much as 90 million.
  46. mind1954
    mind1954 28 August 2012 02: 56
    +1
    All this migration is needed only by thieves making money on it!

    Our people do not know how to fight off their thieves,
    so this power, turning the country into a passage yard,
    flooded the whole country with foreign thieves
    and scrappers - strikebreakers,
    who pretend to work,
    and our thieves pretend that they are paid !!!
  47. xzWhiteWolf
    xzWhiteWolf 28 August 2012 05: 09
    +2
    Honestly, I don't see why one citizen of the Russian Federation cannot go to any part of the country in order to live and work there. Or do you want to specifically divide our country into "Russians" and "not"? All of us, as Yeltsin said "Russians". And we are strong as long as we are united. In the meantime, there are all sorts of mongrels who bark about the opposite, we will be weak and will destroy ourselves.
    Yes, there is such a problem about the fact that the inhabitants of the North Caucasus love to bring their own traditions with them, which are fundamentally different from the traditions of most Russian citizens. But this problem needs to be solved in kindergartens, schools and any other educational institutions. It is there that you need to lay the foundation for the fact that, although very different, we are one. What you need to respect the traditions and culture of different nationalities - but of one country. And when the first such generation grows up, then in schools this will no longer need to be taught. Fathers to sons, mothers and daughters. This is my personal opinion, I do not impose it on anyone.
    Regarding immigrants from the CIS. Oh, I already wrote about this. They are so enraged at all, they say they take work ... They take a place ... But who's stopping you from going to lay asphalt? Who prevents to clean the streets? Do repairs for ridiculous money? And so on, so on ... Do you want to say that you will voluntarily go for it? I doubt it. Respect someone else's work, if someone is doing this, be grateful to them for it. All Tajiks, Uzbeks and other people from the CIS whom I saw are very calm people. Which keep aloof, without imposing anything on anyone ... So here too they prevented you from doing something ... Is there a small place? Russia is such a small country ... We cannot fit ... You know, the more people who consider Russia to be their Motherland, the stronger it will be. Indeed, in my understanding RUSSIAN - not only birth, roots, ancestors make you - but love for your country, your homeland! It doesn’t matter what nationality you are, just love your country and make it better.
    1. virm
      virm 28 August 2012 15: 30
      0
      All Tajiks, Uzbeks and other people from the CIS whom I saw are very calm people ... You are made not only by birth, roots, ancestors - but by love for your country, your homeland !.

      For some reason, these calm people staged Russian genocide at home. And then we came to our land. For some reason, these calm people do not want to love its homeland and make it better, but they want to live on our land.
      And do not measure the size of our country. She is all ours. and if someone thinks that it is too much for the Russians, then this is a big mistake thinking.
      And it’s very important what nationality you are. We do not need crowds of Asians, Blacks, and Papuans here. And the general people, too.
      1. xzWhiteWolf
        xzWhiteWolf 28 August 2012 23: 25
        0
        If you did not live in the USSR, then you should not say such nonsense. We all had a common Motherland - the Soviet Union! And if the political leadership of these countries spread rot Russian, then ordinary citizens can not be responsible for the actions of greedy freaks. Freaks are everywhere and Russia is no exception. But if you judge the whole nation by freaks ... Russia, judging by your opinion, is an abyss ... You meet your freaks more often.
        And who said that we share the land? If they work for the good of our country (note, not every person in our country does this), then why can't he live in it? Well, he will take this money to his family home, and the other wants to become a citizen. If you look at other countries, such as the USA, France, then many times more emigrants work in them. And although they do not like them there, they understand that any developed country simply cannot live without them. But in fact, we have such guys who came in search of a better life can hardly be called emigrants. After all, once the same Tajikistan was part of the USSR.
  48. Uncle Serozha
    Uncle Serozha 28 August 2012 09: 44
    +2
    Quote: darkman70
    By the way, in Transcaucasia, in general, such an ancient history and such a jumble of peoples took place that probably there is almost no territory where it can be said with confidence that this territory is 100% owned by this nation, and this one.
    There, the best option is a large state. uniting all local nations.

    ... or one large state that does not unite local nations, but resolves conflicts between them and establishes the rules of the game. And it definitely should be Russia. New manifestations of genocide in the Caucasus cannot be allowed, peace must be ensured.
  49. Evil Tatar
    Evil Tatar 28 August 2012 10: 12
    +2
    Quote: Mr. Truth
    Putin doesn’t give a damn about native, Russians, Tatars, Mordovians, he needs to increase the number of Russians to 154 million by 2050, which means that almost 60 million (by then) should be taken from somewhere. By the way, the population of Central Asia is about that much.

    Quote: Uncle Seryozha
    ... or one large state that does not unite local nations, but resolves conflicts between them and establishes the rules of the game. And it definitely should be Russia

    I read so much shit from our neighbors and in the future citizens of Great Russia. what a horror - the head ached ...
    ... and only at the end, as a summary, did I see two clever thoughts, which I decided to single out.
    Putin not only thinks himself, but also takes the advice of many analysts, as well as entire institutions, so it’s worth recognizing that when all or almost all the men (and women) of good-neighborly countries (the former USSR) become tightly tied to the Russian economy, then the time will come for easy unification, or rather, their accession to Russia ...
    There are probably several ways, but the simplest one is a sudden tightening of the migration policy for those who have failed to enter and leave ... Major leaders and activists of diasporas will become a support ...
    And then, after joining Russia, everyone back to the republics and building there a new future for each new entity, as in the first five-year plans, but under the strict guidance of ... Who do you think?
    And psy guys - the neo USSR will begin a new round of great history ...
    Wouldn't that be fair?
  50. Uncle Serozha
    Uncle Serozha 28 August 2012 11: 06
    +1
    Quote: Angry Tatar
    And psy guys - the neo USSR will begin a new round of great history ...
    Wouldn't that be fair?

    Be. wink Maybe not so simple and not so fast, but ...
    By the way, formally it is not at all necessary to include them in the Empire. If they are with us, then let them be independent. 15 UN votes are better than 1. wink