Military Review

Stanovoy ridge NSNF: strategic missile submarine cruisers (SSBN) of project 667

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Submarine cruiser and its chief designer Sergei Nikitich Kovalev


On November 1, 1958, the lead USS George Washington (SSBN-598) SSBN was laid down at Electric Boat.

Our submarine missile carrier K-19 was laid down earlier - on October 17, 1958, but the acceptance act was signed only on November 12, 1960. And on November 15, 1960, George Washington went on the first combat patrol in readiness to destroy Soviet cities.

A strategic underwater confrontation began.

The beginning of a strategic underwater confrontation: the score is 1 to 50 against us


3 ballistic missiles of our K-19 (Project 658) against the background of 16 George Washington looked frankly insufficient, but the main thing was that the US Navy launched a large-scale program of rapid construction and commissioning by 1967 of a naval strategic group of 41 SSBNs (City killer ").


By this time, the ratio of the naval strategic strike potential between us and the United States was about 1 to 50 (and this is without taking into account heavy bombers with nuclear weapons on aircraft carriers).

Work on the creation of a second-generation submarine missile carrier was started back in 1958 by TsKB-18 (future TsKB "Rubin") under the leadership of chief designer A.S. Kassatsier, but by the beginning of the 60s it became clear that with project 667 S. Kassatsier TsKB-18 worked "on the basket" - the elaboration of its appearance was too exotic and unrealistic.


To a certain extent, this was a consequence of the unclear situation with the main missile system - right down to its fundamental decisions and appearance. And an important role in the creation of truly effective domestic strategic nuclear submarines was played by the initiative of the chief designer V.P. Makeev to create in SKB-385 (Miass). Liquid fuel (but with ampulization of components) rocket small-sized the D-5 complex with R-27 ballistic missiles (SLBMs) ​​(weighing 14,5 tons each and a range of 2 km), originally developed for Project 400B missile carriers (with 705 SLBMs), created with maximum use of the backlog of Project 8 multipurpose nuclear submarines (for more details about project 705 "Goldfish" of project 705: a mistake or a breakthrough in the XXI century? ").

Work on the atomic submarine pr. 667A was set by the Resolutions of the CM No. 316-137 of April 14, 1961 and No. 565-234 of June 21, 1961. SN Kovalev became the new chief designer of the 667 project (in a new look, with 16 SLBMs in a solid hull). In 1961, the development of a technical project 667A was started with 16 solid-propellant SLBMs of the D-7 complex, placed in stationary vertical mines. However, the development of the D-7 complex was delayed. And in terms of its performance characteristics, it was inferior to the D-5 complex. Taking this into account, the corrected technical project 667A (approved in 1964) with 16 SLBMs of the D-5 complex was completed in the shortest possible time.

The head submarine pr. 667A K-137 was laid down at the Northern Machine-Building Enterprise on November 4, 1964, launched on August 25, 1966, and in the fall of 1967 presented for state tests.

The first "throw" of the Navy and the defense industry of the USSR to restore parity was the construction of 34 SSBNs (strategic missile submarine cruisers) of Project 667A and 667AU within only 6 years!


From the book of S. N. Kovalev "About what was and what is":

It was supposed to be a ship capable of patrolling in any area of ​​the World Ocean, including the Arctic basin ... The design ... was supposed to ensure the possibility of its serial construction on the NSR and ZLK at the maximum rate. The submarine was supposed to be based in the existing bases of the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet.

Therefore, the two-shaft, two-reactor scheme of the power plant was retained, and its reliability was significantly increased. On the initiative of my dear deputy Spassky, an echelon layout of the power plant was implemented, when both turbines were placed not side by side in the same compartment, but sequentially, in two turbine compartments, and steam from any reactor could go to any turbine.

For this decision, which significantly increases the displacement, with the filing of Derevianko I was criticized for a long time in the ministry.

However, the advantages of such a layout made it possible to consistently implement measures to reduce noise on this and subsequent modifications of the second generation missile carriers and achieve dramatic success.
in solving this problem, fully confirmed in the future.


Speaking about a strategic missile submarine, it is necessary to emphasize a factor that usually remains in the "shadow" - navigation support (navigation complex - NK) for solving the tasks of the SNR, which determines the effectiveness of the missile system, and, accordingly, the solution of tasks for its intended purpose as a separate RPK SN and the entire NSNF grouping.

Chief Designer S.N. Kovalev on the dramatic details of the creation of the 667 project in terms of navigation aids:

For submarines of project 667A, NPO Azimut (now TsNII Elektropribor) created a solid all-latitude NK Sigma (chief engineer and chief designer V. I. Maslevsky), based on air suspension ball gyroscopes. Maslevsky saw further improvement of navigation in the consistent improvement of the Sigma complex. In this he was supported by the Ministry, including Minister Butoma himself, with whom I had many discussions on this topic.

Central Research Institute "Dolphin" came up with a new progressive idea of ​​creating an inertial navigation complex (chief designer O. V. Kishchenkov), built on float gyroscopes and distinguished by complex mathematical processing from various sources. Kishchenko's opponents were Maslevsky and practically the entire leadership of the Ministry. Kishchenko's persistence is admirable and surprising. In the Ministry he was kicked out of meetings, and he came back ... Personally, I supported Kishchenko, realizing that only inertial navigation can provide a long voyage under water, incl. and in high latitudes, and provide the necessary parameters for the missile system.

As a result of all battles, Kishchenko and inertial navigation won, and the Tobol navigation complex was created for the serial submarines of Project 667A at the Dolphin Central Research Institute.
.

In 1967, the head and first serial RPK SN were handed over to the Navy by the Northern Machine-Building Enterprise (SMP). The term is simply astounding in today's times. But even more vividly is how they worked then in the Far East at the shipyard named after V.I. Lenin Komsomol (SZLK) in the city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

From the article by A. Ya. Zvinyatsky, I. G. Timokhin, V. I. Shalomov "The first nuclear-powered submarine cruiser in the Far East":

Preparations for the construction of new strategic nuclear submarines of Project 667A were carried out by the plant in the face of a busy production plan.

Suffice it to say that in 1966, the plant was under construction seven nuclear submarines of project 675, four submarines of project 690, six icebreaking transport vessels of project 550, a floating base for recharging reactors of project 326 ... another nuclear submarine was undergoing refurbishment and modernization (according to project 659T) project 659 ...

The duration of the construction of the nuclear submarine from the date of the laying and signing of the act was 1 year 10 months and 1 day, and from the moment the manufacture of mechanical engineering components began - 3 years 9 months and 3 days.

Moreover, it is especially necessary to emphasize the high quality of the construction of new submarine cruisers.

Rear Admiral A.N. Lutsky (then - commander of the RPK SN K-258):

State tests, against expectations, were somewhat delayed. I don't remember why, but I had to make several exits. I remember only one well.

I had to go out again to measure the underwater noise of the ship. The fact is that they did not believe the results of the first measurement, they thought that the error was:

the noise was much less than expected, almost the same as that of the American boats. Someone said: "It can't be!"

We prepared special equipment, the measuring vessel hung it out at a certain depth, and we went under it a couple of times.

Ну и что?

The first result was confirmed.

Designers and shipbuilders smashed their heads over the phenomenon, but could not explain.

A.N. Lutskiy especially noted the very high maneuverability of the RPK SN (despite the very significant displacement).

Note. The noise issues of the 667 project will be discussed below, but it should be noted that there is a significant spread in the noise of orders within even one batch and one plant. Another well-known example of "abnormally low noise" is the Project 685 deep-water Fin, which, despite the use of a steam turbine unit from the 2nd generation and a relatively small diameter of a durable hull, due to its exceptionally high-quality construction, turned out to be quite quiet.

Despite the massive construction of the defense industry complex of the new PKK SN, the Navy faced serious problems in creating their effective groupings. From the book of the former head of the Operations Directorate of the Northern fleet Rear Admiral V. G. Lebedko "Fidelity to Duty":

Before his arrival at the headquarters of the Northern Fleet, Rear Admiral Kichev, being the head of the Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Navy, with the help of his assistants, drew up a schedule for the use of SSBNs for a decade. According to the schedule, the number of our missile carriers at sea should have been constantly increasing, but in fact this number was decreasing. This could not but disturb the Main Command of the Navy. The General Staff demanded an answer.

The Americans have 18 missile carriers constantly on combat patrols, and instead of 12 according to the schedule, we have only 4 or 5. The whole point was that we did not have elementary experience in the cyclic use of the PKK CH. By the cycle, we understood the totality of interrelated processes that form the completed period of use of the PKK SN in the base, in combat training and in combat service.

By order of Kichev, we ... analyzed the entire cycle of the RPK SN, drawing it on long rolls of graph paper ... As a result, we developed the so-called small cycle ... This work revealed that the decrease in the number of submarines at the base station is due to the lack of repair lines that carry out inter-trip repairs.

The boats arriving from the BS were queuing up. This shortcoming had to be urgently eliminated. In addition, the boats were built at different times of the year, and they had to be linked into a single system according to the cycles of use. This led to the most severe accounting of the motor resource ...

Subsequently, the cyclical use of the PKK SN was introduced in the fleets by order of the Main Committee of the Navy. But already in 1974, we managed to almost double the number of missile carriers permanently on the BS. It was a gigantic work of submariners, headquarters, logistic support agencies, shipyards and docks.


RPK SN project 667A were quickly and completely mastered by the crews and began active combat service. Interesting and ironic sketches of its different sides remained, for example, in the drawings of the caps. 2nd rank O. V. Karavashkina.

Stanovoy ridge NSNF: strategic missile submarine cruisers (SSBN) of project 667

An example of successful and covert patrolling is the combat service of commander Lutskiy on K-258. Link to a chapter from the book by A.N. Lutskiy "For the strength of a strong hull" "Combat patrol".

In terms of missile firing, it is necessary, of course, to note the "first hippopotamus" - the shooting in 1969 of the K-140 SSBN with half ammunition (8 SLBMs). Some details on it are contained in the article of its commander, now retired Rear Admiral Yuri Beketov in the "VPK":

Already after the successful salvo firing at the meeting on preparation for the "Ocean" exercises, a conversation took place between the Chief Directorate of the Navy and the commander of the K-140:

Gorshkov asked who carried out the eight-rocket salvo? I got up and introduced myself. The commander-in-chief says: "Tell us how you performed the shooting, what are your impressions and feelings?" Within 4-5 minutes I reported on the peculiarities of the shooting. Gorshkov asked: “Are you confident in the combat capabilities of the missile system? If you are instructed to launch 16 missiles? " I answered in the affirmative.

At the same time, Project 667A SSBMs were intended not only for solving strategic tasks to defeat the most important ground targets, but also operational and tactical ones, including ensuring the deployment and breakthrough to the areas of missile use at strategic SSBN targets. Such nuclear strike support is usually forgotten by those who argue about the low effectiveness of the Navy's SSBN grouping. An example of such a real combat training is contained in the memoirs of Rear Admiral A. N. Lutsky.

In the summer of 1973, our K-258 SSBN was lucky to fire a salvo of two missiles at the sea field, ... replacing two missile warheads at the RTBF pier with practical missile warheads with inert warheads, unloading a couple of neighboring ones for security purposes, and went into the ocean. On board the senior on the cruise is the commander of the 2nd flotilla of submarines, Vice Admiral E. N. Spiridonov. It turned out that the firing position is located almost at the very American naval base on the island of Midway!

In a given time, they occupied the area of ​​firing positions ... In one of the communication sessions, the long-awaited conditional "signal" came ...
- Rocket attack! ..
- The rockets came out, no comments.
- Boatswain, ascend under the periscope ... Radio operators, send the RDO!

And at that moment the bulkhead door opens, the commander enters the central post.
- What are we doing?
- We dive to a depth of ... meters, develop full speed to get out of the "retaliatory" strike ...
- And the rockets?
- They left. RDO too.
The commander looks at his watch in bewilderment.
- We have it quickly, ... twenty minutes - and the missiles are in the air. The crew worked out in excess of the standard shooting.

Having indicated an evasion maneuver, they lowered their readiness, and began to wait for the command to return to the base. We, the GKP rocket crew, stayed at the BIUS ...

Then the first mate drew attention to the fact that the bearing of the missile firing on the BIUS screen was almost to the north. Two missiles left exactly in the direction of another American military base on the island of Adah (so in the text, really - Fr. Adak - approx.), a small island in the Aleutian Islands chain.

The fleets were hard work on the maximum possible increase in the effectiveness of the created group of SSBNs. When developing the operational technical task for the creation of a nuclear missile system with an SSBN of project 667A, the Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Navy put forward the requirement to ensure the value of the operational voltage coefficient of 0,5. In reality, by the mid-70s, it was possible to reach only 0,23. But it was a colossal work of crews, headquarters, and industry. However, the key problems were the weakness of the ship repair base and the insufficient resource of some of the mechanisms and complexes.

A. M. Ovcharenko, "Analysis of the effectiveness of project 667A (AU) strategic missile submarine groups in the system of strategic nuclear forces of the Soviet Union":

Factory overhaul of Project 667A SSBNs was supposed to last no more than 24 months, due to the underdevelopment of the production base in the 70s, factory overhaul lasted 3-4 years ...

The production capacities in the Northern Fleet were brought to the required level only in 1982–1990, after which the repairs began to be carried out within the standard time frame. In the Far East, even at the end of the 80s, average repairs lasted at least 30 months.

Rear Admiral Aleksin, Chief Navigator of the Navy, recalls:

... we managed to reduce the launch time of the Tobol-type INK by ten times, which ensured the possibility of effective use of missile weapons not only from the pier, but also from any point on the routes of dispersal and operational deployment of forces of the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet ...

It wasn't all that simple.

For example, I was ... many times tried to stop representatives of the Central Research Institute and manufacturers, warning about responsibility for the possible incapacitation of the INK RPK SN.

They complained to the authorities, ... they threatened with jail, but we did not stop our research work, we did not break the navigation systems, ensured the full development of the established service life of their systems.

As a result, the new planned launch schedules of the INK RPK SN were appreciated and included in the new rules for the use of SSBN navigation complexes, published by the GUNiO MO.

I would like to emphasize once again that the capabilities of navigation aids for SSBNs are not “abstract technical characteristics”, but parameters that specifically affect not only the effectiveness of the use of the main weapon, but directly ensure its use.

Over the entire period of operation of the D-5 (D-5U) complex, about 600 missile launches were made, more than 10 thousand missile loading and unloading operations, 590 combat patrols in various regions of the World Ocean were carried out. The last R-27U missile was unloaded from the Project 667AU (K-430) SSBN of the Pacific Fleet on July 1, 1994.

The second "throw": projects 667B and DB - to catch up and surpass!


The insufficient range of SLBMs of the D-5 complex led not only to the need to overcome the enemy's anti-submarine lines, but also significantly reduced the number of SSBNs ready to strike at designated targets in patrol areas (which still had to reach many thousands of miles).

Therefore, the plan for naval shipbuilding for 1969-1980 provided for a much more effective strategic nuclear missile submarine system with intercontinental SLBMs. In 1963, the development of such a new missile system, the D-9, began. The capabilities of the SSBN navigation complex did not provide the required firing accuracy for SLBMs with a traditional control system, which required the creation of an onboard azimuthal astrocorrection system for SLBMs, which would make it possible to refine the position of the rocket in space by the stars and correct its movement.

The tactical and technical assignment of the Navy for a nuclear submarine equipped with the D-9 complex was approved in 1965.

That is, the existing opinion that intercontinental SLBMs and new SSBN projects were "a response to SOSUS" (stationary hydroacoustic system of the US Navy) has no basis. The navy and the military-political leadership of the USSR worked effectively to "preempt", but the main stimulus for this was precisely the increase in the missile readiness of SSBNs and their number, immediately ready to defeat the assigned targets.

It should be borne in mind that objective data on the very high real effectiveness of SOSUS by the military-political leadership of the USSR were obtained through intelligence channels only in the 1970 region.

The construction of a series of 18 nuclear submarines of project 667B with 12 SLBMs of the D-9 complex was carried out at the Sevmash enterprise in the city of Severodvinsk, where 10 SSBNs were built, and at the plant. Lenin Komsomol (Komsomolsk-on-Amur), where 8 more SSBNs were built.

Together with 4 Project 667BD SSBNs (which had an ammunition load increased to 16 SLBMs), only 22 SSBNs with intercontinental SLBMs were completed in 5 years. The areas of combat patrolling of SSBNs with intercontinental SLBMs were usually located within 2-3 days of the transition from the basing points, which sharply increased the effectiveness of SSBNs of projects 667B and 667BD.


SSBN project 667B

Interesting memories of the construction of the first "Komsomol" SSBN of project 667B are contained in the memoirs of its chief designer:

The subject of my pride was the upper deck of the turbine compartments, where the electrical panels were located, and between them there were convenient passageways where a tall person could walk at full height. Arriving in Komsomolsk in 1973 to build the lead boat of Project 667B, I was horrified. The pipelines and cables on the deck of the compartment were mounted in such a way that instead of passages, there were slots. Having scolded the plant, designers and military representatives, I forced everything to be redone. Before leaving for Leningrad, I went to the director A. T. Deev to say goodbye. He calls the chief builder Shakhmeister on the selector: they say, the chief designer is leaving, are there any questions for him? In response, a hysterical cry: "Let him leave as soon as possible and as far as possible, he made us redo half of the boat!"

The achievement of strategic parity with the United States in the field of strategic weapons led to the conclusion of the SALT-1 Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty and the withdrawal from the Navy of part of the still quite new Project 667A SSBNs (the first was K-411 in April 1978).


Subsequently, these ships (with missile compartments cut out according to SALT-1) were planned to be converted into multipurpose nuclear submarines and special purpose nuclear submarines, but not all ex-SSBNs were waiting for this.

There is an opinion that a big mistake was the refusal to modernize the SSBNs of project 667A for the D-9 complex (similar to project 667B), however:

• for SSBNs, a large number of R-27 SLBMs were produced (which solved not only strategic tasks, but also operational ones in the theater of operations);

• Since the beginning of the 70s, the problem of the noise of the Navy's submarines has sharply emerged, and the whole complex of measures to de-noise the 667B project was impossible or extremely expensive to implement to modernize the 667A project.

Accordingly, Project 667A SSBNs served with the D-5 complex (only the K-140 was modernized for the D-11 experimental complex with a solid-propellant SLBM).
Taking into account the acute problem of secrecy and ensuring the combat stability of the RPKNS against the powerful and effective anti-submarine forces of the United States and NATO Naval Forces, active and systematic work began in the late 70s on the development of the Arctic theater of operations, including patrolling under the ice of the Navy's SSBNs. By 1983, the USSR Navy completed about 70 sub-ice cruises of nuclear submarines (our probable enemy at that time was three times less).


The first launch of the R-29 intercontinental SLBM from the Arctic region was made on July 3, 1981, and it took place just 9 minutes after receiving the launch command.

The third "throw": to sharply increase the strike potential - Project 667BDR with SLBMs with MIRVs (MIRV)


In the mid-70s, the US Navy again, due to the massive equipping of SSBNs with SLBMs with MIRVs, significantly pulled ahead of the USSR Navy in terms of the number of SLBM warheads. Accordingly, the measures of the USSR to restore parity followed.

In 1979, the R-29R SLBM was put into service with a firing range of 6500–7800 km (depending on the MIRV configuration) for the SSBN of the new project 667BDR. At the same time, a large set of measures was introduced to reduce noise, new radio-electronic devices were installed, including the Rubicon State Joint Stock Company (for more details "Rubicon" of underwater confrontation. Successes and problems of the MGK-400 hydroacoustic complex ") and a flexible extended towed antenna for detecting targets by discrete components (including in the aft sector).

The pace of work was such that the lead boat of the 667BDRM K-441 project was actually the second, since the 667th hull of the 5BD K-667 project was completed according to the 424BDR project. In total, 14 SSBNs of project 667BDR were built.


The last SSBN project 667BDR - K-44 "Ryazan" is still in the Navy (Pacific Fleet).

Organization of the NSNF of the USSR Navy


From the memoirs Ocean Parity. Notes of the Commander of the Fleet "Admiral A. P. Mikhailovsky (early - mid-80s):

The defeat of strategically important objects on the enemy's overseas territory, with the approval of the military-political leadership of our country, can be carried out by conducting an operation of strategic nuclear forces under the direct control of the Supreme Commander, who decides on the operation and gives the order for the first nuclear strike.

Role of the General Staff:

The success of the operation is ensured by long, advance preparation and careful planning, taking into account many options for solving the problem. This is constantly being done by the General Staff, which determines ahead of time and, if necessary, clarifies the list and coordinates of objects to be destroyed. Assigns the order and degree of damage to each object. Establishes the share of participation, the resource of ammunition and the distribution of target complexes between the components of the nuclear triad, as well as the issues of their interaction with each other. The General Staff puts into operation and periodically modifies the command and control signal system.

Directly the forces of the NSNF and the forces and means supporting them were controlled by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (General Staff of the Navy) and the fleets (we emphasize that this was a very reasonable and optimal system, today it is actually destroyed - see, for example, A. Timokhin “Destroyed management. There is no single command of the fleet for a long time ").

The combat operations of the naval strategic nuclear forces are personally directed by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (with the help of his General Staff), determines the composition of the Atlantic and Pacific groupings of naval strategic nuclear forces required to defeat the facilities allocated to the Navy, as well as the number and type of strategic nuclear-powered ships intended for reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. The commander-in-chief establishes patrol zones in the oceans and seas, the number of submarine cruisers in combat service, the required degree of ensuring their combat stability in each of these zones ...

The group of submarine cruisers in the Atlantic and in the Arctic is directly controlled by me, the commander of the Northern Fleet. It is I who must establish routes, areas and patrol periods, the procedure for the deployment and build-up of both combat service forces and the grouping as a whole. I am obliged to organize its interaction with the rest of the forces of the fleet, to provide everything necessary.

And the specific features of the performance of tasks by each SSBN with their cyclical use:

The naval life of any missile submarine is provided, as a rule, by two crews and is scheduled according to the so-called large and small cycles. A similar cycle, for example, includes the following steps:

• going out to sea for combat patrols with the first crew;
• return and transfer of the missile carrier to the second crew; inter-passage repair; going to sea for combat training;
• again going out on combat patrol, but with the second crew.

With the return, the cycle repeats.

After several such small cycles, a large one is planned, including factory repairs, and even modernization with the complete unloading of all missiles, which, in turn, requires significant time for combat training and the introduction of the cruiser into the permanent readiness forces.

And the general assessment of the entire NSNF grouping:

Two-thirds of the total number of missile carriers are always loaded with missiles and are in constant readiness for action. Some of them are constantly at sea, in combat service. The other part is on alert. The rest are busy with their daily activities at the bases. A grouping deployed at sea can be reinforced through combat alert or build-up forces. However, in an extreme situation, cruisers of constant readiness located in bases should be able to launch their missiles directly from the berths. A similar demand was expressed to me by the Minister of Defense Marshal DF Ustinov when he was giving instructions to the post. However, how to ensure such launches organizationally and technically, the minister did not explain, he recommended thinking.

The task of ensuring the launch of SLBMs directly from their bases was not as simple as it seems at first glance. And one of the main problematic issues (eventually resolved) was again navigation.


Launch of SLBMs from the pier from the Portnochikha Bay.

Rear Admiral Aleksin, Chief Navigator of the Navy, recalls:

Not without incidents. At the Northern Fleet, for example, they came up with the idea of ​​using missile weapons from the pier without the initial NK and the main power plant of the RPK SN, just a few minutes after the order. In the form of navigation firing data, the operator of the missile combat control system (RBUS) "Alpha" (on the RPK SN pr. 667B, 667BD) was given geographic coordinates, the course of the RPK SN and a speed equal to zero.

However, they found out that even when moored at the berth in the frozen Krasheninnikov Bay in Kamchatka, with an ice thickness of about one meter, the SSBNs are blowing along the course along with the berth by tidal currents by an amount more than the limit established by the governing documents. With salvo firing from the berth, the yaw and roll of SSBNs would all the more exceed the permissible values. We have developed our own measures.

However, the northerners have already managed to introduce their "rationalization" into the draft operational documents. The end of the innovations was put by the experimental rocket shooting, appointed by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. The navigation complex worked according to the full scheme, but fixed data were entered into the missile weapon complex according to the methodology of the Severomors. As a result, of the four launched SLBMs, only the first two salvo missiles arrived at the Kura battlefield in Kamchatka, and the other two self-destructed on the trajectory, so their astrocorrectors, due to a large error in the ship's course, could not aim at the given stars. The analysis showed that both the yaw and the pitching of the RPK SN after the release of the first two missiles of the salvo significantly exceeded the permissible limits.

To save the motor resource of the INK and to fulfill the assigned operational readiness, under the leadership of the chief navigator of the Navy and the Main Navigator of the Ministry of Defense of the Ministry of Defense, schemes were developed for broadcasting the "live" course, quality of the ship and other VAT for all RPK SN projects, which also ensured the effective use of the entire SLBM ammunition from the berth in one salvo , and saving the motor resource of the main INK systems.

Since the mid-70s, after the intercontinental SLBMs entered service and it became possible to launch missiles from their home bases, up to 20-22 SSBNs were in high readiness for launching missiles (on combat patrols at sea and on alert at bases). This intensity persisted until the early 90s.

With a sharp exacerbation of the Cold War confrontation in the early - mid-80s, the Navy did everything to maximize (in fact, prohibitively) to raise the operational stress ratio of NSNF (first of all, Project 667A SSBNs, as opposed to the new US medium-range missiles in Europe ). In 1983-1986, the KOH was about 0,35, but the exhaustion of the resource of equipment and people led to the death of the SSBN K-219 in 1986 (which entered combat service with unacceptable malfunctions in the outboard fittings of the missile silos).

Stealth and noise


The chief designer of the project, S.N.Kovalev, wrote about understanding and taking into account the issues of low noise when creating an SSBN of project 667A:

It's not that we didn't pay attention to this problem, but that we were not scientifically and technically prepared to achieve low noise levels ...

In the same period of time, large-scale work was launched to study the issues of secrecy and a sharp decrease in the noise of mechanisms and ships.

In 1968, fundamentally new requirements for the vibroacoustic characteristics of the main component equipment (VAH-68) were developed, which ensured significant progress in reducing the noise level of SSBNs pr. 667B and 667BD. In 1974, new, more stringent requirements were adopted (VAC-74).

However, the main thing (along with a significant increase in the technological level of the defense industry enterprises) was fundamentally precisely the methodological understanding of how to build low-noise submarines. It did not come at once, after a number of mistakes and misconceptions (for example, an unsuccessful attempt to solve the problem by increasing the number of depreciation cascades), catching up with the "potential enemy" that had gone ahead significantly. In full, these modern approaches to "acoustic design" of nuclear submarines were already implemented in modern nuclear submarines of the 4th generation, however, the presence of significant modernization reserves of the original project 677A made it possible to dramatically reduce the noise of SSBNs - both from project to project and during the construction of series and repairing ships in fleets.


Approximate dynamics of reducing the noise of ships of projects 667A (B, BD, BDR, BDRM) in comparison with other projects of nuclear submarines of the Soviet and US Navy.


Changes in SSBN propellers.

The complex of works to reduce noise has led to an outstanding result - the 2nd generation nuclear submarine developed in the early 60s in its latest modification (project 667BDRM reached the level of new 3rd generation nuclear submarines in low-noise moves).

However, secrecy is not only low noise, it is a complex of measures, where the level of acoustic fields is only a part. Much depends on the organization and tactics of effective use of false conditions. But with this, not everything was always good.

Starting from the sometimes insufficient level of training of individual crews and military command and control bodies and ending with simply stringent requirements to maintain the established cyclicity of use. For example, the US Navy's Yankee Class Ballistic Missile-Launching Nuclear DIA Report, June 1976, explicitly stated:

the frequency of exits of the Project 667A submarines was kept quite strictly, which was one of the reasons for the high efficiency of the tracking system for them by the US anti-submarine defense forces in the 70s.

Wherein:

The speed of movement of the boat during the transition was chosen on the basis that the transition had to be made ... in the shortest possible time. In the Atlantic, the average speed of Project 667A SSBNs during the transition was 10-12 knots, and the SSBNs arrived in the combat service area in 11-13 days.

Of course, there could be no question of any "secrecy during the transition" at such a speed. Such an SSBN was taken by SOSUS at very, very long distances, ensuring the maintenance and transfer of contact with it to various anti-submarine forces in the theater of operations.

The above was an example of very competent and effective tactical actions of the commander of the SSBN A.N. Lutsky, but this was, alas, not always the case. For example, one of the most serious troubles that sharply worsened the secrecy of SSBNs was their prolonged "walking on one leg" (shaft lines). And here considerations could be from an illiterate opinion that it was so, "American style", supposedly "quieter" (and the level of broadband noise did decrease, but with a sharp increase in low-frequency discrete components, according to which the enemy detected SSBNs from very large distances) to hard directive requirements for saving the equipment service life.

The controls were far from always at their best, recalls the former commander of the K-182 Rear Admiral V.V. Naumov ("Separate tactics of the US Navy's anti-submarine forces against single submarines of the USSR Navy in the period from 1962 to 1980"):

Checking the absence of tracking of SSBNs heading to the Atlantic did not always give positive results, primarily due to the insufficiently thought out method and the choice of means to carry out this check. For example, checking the absence of tracking for SSBN K - 182 in 1977 was carried out by the submarine 633 of the project on the North Cape - Medvezhiy line, for a long time being in its position for this purpose, periodically charging the AB with diesels, which easily allowed the multipurpose submarine of the US Navy at that time to find it and settle down next ... After the submarine 633 of the project found the K-182, crossing its course from right to left, and approached the course line of the K-182, she unexpectedly found the turbine noise on the left course 120 °, which later retired in bearing to the departed K- 182. It is natural to assume that the US Navy submarine was secretly in a waiting position west of the project submarine 633, therefore it did not cross the course of the middle submarine, but, having found the K-182, set in motion and followed it. So it was more reliable and easier to detect SSBNs for US Navy submarines than to search all over the Barents Sea. In response to this suggestion I made in the NF PLS department, they told me that they did not have data on tracking US Navy submarines for diesel submarines.

And as an example - competent tactical actions to maximize secrecy against SOSUS (at the "level of knowledge" about it in the late 70s - early 80s):

Actions to increase the secrecy of SSBNs from hydrophones of the SOSUS system:

- the choice of the operating mode of the mechanisms, in accordance with the results of the pre-travel measurement of noise;

- do not exceed the speed of 4–5 knots unless absolutely necessary;

- avoid the use of mechanisms for which there are data or assumptions that they are unmasking the ship due to exceeding the noise standards during the period of operation;

- if there is a jump layer, you should patrol above it, and best of all, in the near-surface layer of 35-40 m, especially in fresh weather, which, due to the noise of the sea waves, completely masks the ship from the SOSUS system, it should be remembered that diving under the jump layer from any the goal is to dramatically increase the efficiency of the SOSUS system ...

The pinnacle of development - 667BDRM


A promising third-generation SSBN was considered Project 3 with a solid-propellant SLBM. More about the motives for this and the project itself - Project 941 Shark. The pride of the domestic submarine shipbuilding? Yes!"

However, technological difficulties did not allow the creation of a missile system with a solid-propellant SLBM with the required characteristics, which led to a sharp increase in the displacement of the new SSBN and a decrease in its serial production.


At the same time, in the mid-70s, technical solutions were identified that ensured a sharp increase in the effectiveness of the SSBN missile complex of project 667 and a decrease in its noise (along with the introduction of new radio-electronic means).
The decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR on the development of a new modification of the project - 667BDRM was issued on September 10, 1975.

The lead missile carrier of Project 667BDRM - K-51 "Verkhoturye" - was laid down in February 1981 and in December 1984 put into operation. In total, in the period from 1984 to 1990, 7 SSBNs were built (one of them was subsequently converted into a special purpose nuclear submarine BS-64).


The creation of the SSBN project 667BDRM was the pinnacle of the development of the project 667. Yes, the new project was inferior to the newest SSBNs of the US Navy "Ohio" (including in terms of low noise). However, in the USSR there was no technological reserve at that time in order to reach the "Ohio" level. At the same time, the 667BDRM project received good stealth, new radio electronic means (including a modification of the new Skat-M SJSC - MGK-520) when performing medium repairs in the 2000s with "separate modernization works" of the AICR, replaced by a very good digital SJSC MGK-520.6 is a new missile weapon system with very high performance.


Did he have serious flaws and problems?

Of course, for example, weak countermeasures and underwater weapons. However, this was a common disadvantage of all our submarines.

Underwater weapons and countermeasures for the PKK SN


Initially, the torpedo armament of Project 667A consisted of 4 torpedo tubes (TA) of 53 cm caliber for torpedoes with mechanical (spindle) data entry and a quick-loading device with a double ammunition load of torpedoes on racks (a total of 12 torpedoes of 53 cm caliber).

In the "special period", due to the disassembly of part of the structures of the 2nd compartment, it was possible to place additional spare torpedoes in the second compartment, as provided for by the project.


Initially, the APCR could accept a wide range of torpedoes with spindle data entry, but already in the mid - late 70s, loading from SET-65 anti-submarine torpedoes and 53-65K anti-ship torpedoes (including 1–2 in the nuclear version) became almost the standard. Unfortunately, despite the small ammunition and the number of torpedo tubes, until the end of the USSR, SSBNs did not receive a universal torpedo. The timing of its creation was disrupted by the industry. And the work on it (USET-80 with mechanical data input) was completed only in 1993 (RA Gusev “This is a torpedo life”).

In addition to Project 667BDRM SSBN torpedoes, thanks to the installation of a new BIUS "Omnibus", it became possible to use anti-submarine missiles.

In addition to the 53 cm TA, on most (except for BDRM) SSBNs of Project 667 there were two 40 cm TA for self-propelled countermeasures (usually self-propelled MG-44 simulators) with reloading (a spare item on the rack) or 40 cm torpedoes (SET-40 or SET-72).

The self-propelled simulator MG-44, created simultaneously with the APKR project 667A, had high and very well-balanced characteristics for its time, providing effective imitation of submarines for both hydroacoustic stations (GAS) of ships and helicopters, and torpedoes of the Mk48 and Mk46 types, and the capabilities of the created in the early 60s, complex electronic self-propelled products were at the height of tactical requirements until the 90s of the last century.


Alas, for SSBNs of project 667BDRM TA 40 cm caliber were removed and instead of relatively small MG-44 devices, multipurpose self-propelled devices for hydroacoustic counteraction MG-74 could be adopted, which, with formally higher characteristics and higher modes than MG-44, were in fact inferior to it. (since they did not provide a number of the most urgent tactical tasks).

Of course, we have to regret the refusal to install on it the highly effective “Shlagbaum” countermeasures complex (developed in the second half of the 80s), while objectively we have to admit that instead of the extremely complex and problematic in operation “Shlagbaum” complex with outboard storage of self-propelled devices , The Navy could well have received an effective MG-104 device, but in a caliber of 40 cm (the mass of MG-104 and MG-44 are close), thereby immediately providing the latest (in the late 80s) countermeasures a huge number of submarines (including including from the MASSYAS) Navy.

However, the head of the "Shlagbaum" SPBMT "Malakhit" preferred to master funds on a new launcher (and therefore a different caliber of products), installed only on nuclear submarines of project 971 and 945A and the modernized APCR of project 941U.

The "Stanovy ridge" NSNF did not receive effective countermeasures. Despite the fact that for their creation there were all the technical possibilities. And, moreover, they were created (MG-104 "Throw"), but could not be used from the overwhelming majority of the Navy's submarines (including all Project 667 SSBNs with modifications).

As a result, countermeasures (ineffective MG-34 and GIP-1 devices) could be deployed through two VIPS devices ("a small special torpedo tube of 5 inch caliber") and a DUK.

Conclusions and lessons of the creation of SSBN project 667 (A, B, BD, BDR, BDRM)


Since 1967, when the lead and first serial ship of Project 667A were delivered, until 1990, when the last SSBN of Project 667BDRM was commissioned, 77 SSBNs were built according to five projects ... That is, on average, more than 3 ships per year.

These SSBNs were not "engineering masterpieces" for "ultimate performance", they were not "something unique." These were simple and reliable ships with a sufficient level of efficiency to solve their main task - strategic deterrence (albeit at the cost of heavy losses).

Both the ships of Project 667 and their crews did it, including in the most difficult post-perestroika years. And when in 1999 our paratroopers were rushing to Pristina, they knew that behind their backs were not only the "strangled" START-2 treaty in the places of permanent deployment "Topoli", but also several RPK SN project 667BDR and BDRM on duty and patrolling ...

Moreover, there was a practice (very wise) before serious political events and meetings of practical missile launches of SLBMs - to show the “so-called partners” that even though the “Russian bear” turned out to be “knocked down” and “lying”, stand up and be very strong He may well "embed".

And the chief designer of the project S.N.Kovalev played a huge role in maintaining the capabilities and potential in these difficult years.


Yes, theoretically, much more could be done to significantly increase the combat capabilities of these SSBNs ... However, too often unsolvable problems in our country are not technical, but organizational, or rather, even often the flaws of the very organization of the development and operation of AME (as in its military unit, and in industry).

And with this in mind, SN Kovalev made 101% of the possible: both for his ships and for the country.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 5 2021 05: 45
    +25
    Excellent article!
    The naval wits of the 667 projects were called "Ivan Washington", which is obvious, and the 667BDR was awarded a separate nickname "The Prison of the Nations" because of the characteristic "lattice" of scuppers. laughing
    1. sleeve
      sleeve April 5 2021 06: 46
      +9
      Great job, really. I agree with you.
      1. NIKN
        NIKN April 5 2021 12: 15
        +7
        Quote: sleeve
        Great job, really. I agree with you.

        Let me join you. Very good work of the author, thanks to him for the article! hi
    2. senima56
      senima56 April 5 2021 15: 04
      +1
      You are a little mistaken in the name, the boats were not called "Ivan Washington", but "Ivan your groan"! good hi
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 5 2021 15: 24
        0
        Quote: senima56
        "Ivan Washington", but "Ivan your moan"

        For the first time I hear how I fully admit a derivative.
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 5 2021 20: 46
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      667 projects

      - Project 667A "Navaga" (NATO "Yankee") (16 SLBM R-27)
      - Project 667B "Murena" (NATO "Delta") (12 SLBM R-29)
      - Project 667BD "Murena-M" (NATO "Delta" II) (16 SLBMs R-29)
      - Project 667BDR "Kalmar" (NATO "Delta" III) (16 SLBMs R-29R)
      - Project 667BDRM "Dolphin" (NATO "Delta" IV) (16 SLBMs R-29RM)
    4. RealPilot
      RealPilot April 6 2021 04: 37
      +2
      Wonderful article, almost a book wink
      Thanks a lot! I learned a lot of interesting things on topics that I had not mastered myself. There, to understand, you need to serve ...
    5. DenZ
      DenZ April 8 2021 09: 24
      0
      Only early versions of the 667 project were named "Ivan Washington". Nobody called 667 BDRM that way.
  2. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets April 5 2021 06: 02
    +13
    But the number of nuclear submarines in general and missile carriers in particular was prohibitive for the capabilities of the Soviet economy. With a reasonable organization, less could be done. And this is how we got guns instead of butter.
    I'm waiting for a bunch of minuses from people who have never lived in the USSR! laughing
    1. sleeve
      sleeve April 5 2021 06: 46
      +4
      And the centrobolt on these cons (or centrobalt?)
    2. ism_ek
      ism_ek April 5 2021 06: 52
      -4
      "Said it suddenly and bluntly" .)))
      There was no point in building fewer missile carriers. In the event of a conflict, they would have been destroyed before they could launch.
    3. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov April 5 2021 08: 24
      +10
      “It was possible to get by with less” - in this matter, KOH rules. The insufficient resource of a part of the mechanisms forces the entire product to be repaired. The lack of repair capacity (a chronic trouble in the domestic industry) leads to a decrease in combat-ready units. Deficiencies in the planning of combat use also lead to a decrease in KOH. To eliminate the above problems, first of all, you need a highly qualified leadership of the country and the army. And where to find these people, if in the country for appointment to a post, political motives dominate over professional qualities? As a result, we have what we have.
      1. GEOID
        GEOID April 5 2021 09: 27
        -8
        Sorry, but you are mixing KOH, KRN, KHN ....
        Operational, repair and running components.
        An uncle sat in the OO of the flotilla headquarters and kept a journal. At the headquarters of the rear of the flotilla there was another guy who also kept a journal. The brigade headquarters is the same. On the ship (boat) too. This is only for the gland. And there are also directors in weapons, navigation, engine specialists ... Each has its own terms.
        This is a rather difficult question and use a mantra KOH, as does the ignorant Andrey from Chelyabinsk worthless.
        Here you need someone who was directly involved in this. With acc. VUS.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov April 5 2021 09: 33
          +7
          It may well be that I got it wrong with the terminology, not a sailor, however winked ... Nevertheless, the factors that I cited took place, and they greatly influenced the combat readiness of our ships.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. GEOID
            GEOID April 5 2021 14: 40
            +8
            Quote: Sergey Valov
            that I got it wrong with the terminology

            This is not the point. A lot of "gitiks"))) I saw how the operators think, gave them data. But I will not undertake to explain. I tried to figure it out, got confused and spat.
            This is an element of tricky accounting - to give data that suits the "top" and not be left out of the money yourself (Fuel, repairs, write-offs, meals, closing orders (for civilian workers at the ARZ). And it is useless to minus me. I was banned more than 50 times ... I will come again. ..if you get bored.
            "Shaft according to plan ... Shaft plan ..." Part1,2,3.
            https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/11900.html
            https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/12243.html
            https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/12422.html
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov April 5 2021 15: 03
              +2
              I didn't minus, I rarely play these games. drinks
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 10: 10
          +16
          Quote: GEOID
          to use the mantra KON, as the ignorant Andrey from Chelyabinsk does it, is useless.

          Of course, it's much easier to cut professionally
          Quote: GEOID
          This is a rather difficult question.

          And to blurt out the fact that in essence Sergei Valov is right, and that the number of required nuclear submarines and their KO are directly interconnected
    4. Bez 310
      Bez 310 April 5 2021 08: 40
      +11
      Quote: Sahalinets
      we got guns instead of butter.
      I'm waiting for a bunch of minuses from people who have never lived in the USSR!

      I lived "in the USSR".
      Perhaps I lived in a different USSR than I lived in
      the rest, but I did not see the lack of "oil".
      He lived on the Kola Peninsula, in the Donbass, on
      Far East, Sakhalin often visited,
      in Kamchatka, and nowhere did the people suffer without oil.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov April 5 2021 09: 28
        +6
        I lived in Moscow, I first saw the absence of "butter" in the early 70s, when in just how many days condensed milk disappeared from the shelves, although before that, cans stood in pyramids in almost every store. Well, then it went on increasing, when buying even milk became a problem.
        1. GEOID
          GEOID April 5 2021 09: 39
          +7
          Closer to the 90s, when the coupons began to be introduced.
          We didn’t come to that. Earlier, for the holidays, everyone at the headquarters of the military organization gave out a package. Sweets, coffee, caviar, cognac, crabs in a can, etc.
          After 88, they were no longer issued to everyone, but to the department. 15 people, for example, gave out 10. Paid, of course. Well, we are all in a common heap and lot.
          But as a colleague in VVVAUSh writes, OBUShnik is true, we did not have such a thing.


          "... And yet these queues are nothing compared to the scene when two of my colleagues, two colonels, two former commanders of the Kachinsky VVVAUL regiment, one of Beketovsky, the other of Kotelnikovsky, both with the academy, got into a fight because of the bank instant coffee, which the military organization allocated one for 25 officers .... "
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 April 5 2021 10: 03
            +8
            Quote: GEOID
            Closer to the 90s, when the coupons began to be introduced.

            This is no longer the USSR ...
            1. GEOID
              GEOID April 5 2021 10: 57
              +3
              Well yes. I quit my job in 90, and then in Kamchatka I found coupons for vodka, washing, soap ...
              Only thanks to connections with the girls in the Foodstuffs management ... Half of the headquarters supplied vodka)))
              What has always been dofig is fish. At the expense of her and survived. Then they began to give Australian lamb for rations .... Well, it's great for you with your wife, the head of the dining room)))

            2. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov April 5 2021 15: 04
              -2
              This is quite a USSR, only such that it is sad to remember.
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 10: 01
          +9
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          I lived in Moscow, I first saw the lack of "oil" in the early 70s

          Sorry, I don’t believe it. We had this oil in Chelyabinsk - heaps until the very end of the 80s, and in the early - mid 80s I quite often went to Moscow to see my relatives. And there was always better food than ours, the same cervelat could be bought, not to mention butter.
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan April 5 2021 11: 42
            +8
            I visited you in Chelyabinsk sometime in 1984. On your central street we went into a store, bah, there is a sausage and there is no queue. I’ll go to the counter, but we won’t sell it to me, only for local residents. Okay, we went to a restaurant, ordered elk dumplings in ceramic pots filled with eggs, plus 150 grams of alcohol. The thing is not expensive, I still remember.
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov April 5 2021 14: 53
              +1
              I similarly ended up in Kuibyshev around 1984.
          2. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov April 5 2021 14: 43
            0
            Did you write somewhere that there was no oil in the 70s? belay With sausages, problems gradually increased from the early 70s until they disappeared altogether by the late 80s. There is one more nuance - Muscovites were at work during the day, and shops were closed by 8 pm, during the day everything was swept away by visitors and those few Muscovites who were not working at the moment. It was almost impossible to stock up on a short lunch break. Believe it or not, my pension will not decrease from this.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 16: 04
              +3
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              Did you write somewhere that there was no oil in the 70s?

              Nuuu
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              I lived in Moscow, I first saw the lack of "oil" in the early 70s

              I understand that under the quotes you meant not only oil, if you misunderstood, I apologize
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov April 5 2021 16: 06
                +1
                By quotation marks, I meant consumer goods, including food.
          3. Cympak
            Cympak April 5 2021 21: 52
            +1
            Butter - oil strife ... Sandwich heaps, and butter 82,5 had to look. It's the same as with sausage: some kind of sausage was on the shelves, but the people were thirsty for servilat.
          4. Monar
            Monar April 6 2021 07: 06
            0
            Do not remind me when coupons appeared in Chelyabinsk?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 6 2021 07: 12
              0
              I don’t remember, honestly!
              1. Monar
                Monar April 6 2021 08: 15
                0
                Almost immediately after the 80 Olympics. Even then, at the beginning, I was happy because I was young, that like these pieces of paper would be given out for free and communism soon. And then I stood in line for hours to "buy" them.
        3. Sahalinets
          Sahalinets April 5 2021 11: 07
          +3
          Don't even start about Moscow.
        4. Titus_2
          Titus_2 April 7 2021 11: 47
          0
          I am a Muscovite since 1974. and it seems to me that you are 'beeping' on the popovod of absent milk and I do not remember the strong absence of anything except toilet paper ... until one restructuring started.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 5 2021 09: 49
        +1
        Quote: Bez 310
        Quote: Sahalinets
        we got guns instead of butter.
        I'm waiting for a bunch of minuses from people who have never lived in the USSR!

        I lived "in the USSR" ... but I did not see the absence of "oil" ...

        I, too, did not notice the lack of food.
        And it doesn't matter what to write, the main goal is to "kick the USSR", with or without ...
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov April 5 2021 15: 06
          +1
          My children also listen with skepticism to my similar memories.
      3. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets April 5 2021 11: 13
        +4
        They lived poorly in the USSR. Moscow was an exception, some regions were well supplied (Sakhalin until 1980) laughing , well, the capitals of the union republics by itself. But the middle zone of Russia, the Urals already in the 70s lived in a terrible deficit.
        But now they will tell me that there were heaps of everything, and the sausage trains to Moscow from the hunger belt are enemy propaganda!
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 11: 34
          +4
          Quote: Sahalinets
          Already in the 70s the Urals lived in a terrible deficit.

          Yes, I would not say that right now is generally in short supply ... Until the end of the 80s, we always had meat, butter, sour milk, and sausage at 2.90 each and salt and sugar, and so on. At 2.20, it was also in stores, but we almost did not take it. There were a terrible shortage - cervelat, sprats (I don't remember at all what was sold, unless sprat in tomato sauce is considered sprat laughing ), oranges / tangerines, which were brought only for the new year and there were queues for them across the entire store to the street, and green peas for Olivier. The latter was brought in 2 times a year, the queue stretched for a day, we went to stand in it as a family in turn :)))))))
          1. Sahalinets
            Sahalinets April 5 2021 12: 22
            +2
            At 82 we introduced coupons for butter and meat. My mom passed me sausages from Moscow when I was there. We didn't have them at all. Etc.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 12: 27
              +3
              Quote: Sahalinets
              At 82 we introduced coupons for butter and meat

              As for the coupons, I won't say exactly when they happened, I just remember well that there was plenty of oil.
              At the same time, there were gardens - everything is ours :)))) We stocked up on raspberry and apple jam for the future so that it stood in the buffet until summer. And they constantly drank tea with sandwiches - bread + butter + jam, instead of cookies there, or gingerbread. And they often fried on a creamy one. As long as I remember, there was always enough oil :)
              And sausages - yes, there was also a big deficit, that's for sure
          2. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov April 5 2021 14: 59
            +3
            The garrisons were different. My sister and her husband served all the 80s in Sosnovy Bor near Ulan-Uda, if you know one. So I brought canned food from there to Moscow. And in Hotilovo in the 60s it was a rolling ball in the production military store, by agreement of the commanders of our units, we went to stock up with the missilemen in Vypolzovo.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U April 5 2021 15: 23
              0
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              80s in Sosnovy Bor near Ulan-Ude, if you know one. So I drove canned food from there to Moscow
              And also the Star is near!
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 16: 01
              +1
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              My sister and her husband served all the 80s in Sosnovy Bor near Ulan-Uda, if you know one.

              I know, I worked there at one time :))))
      4. vadim dok
        vadim dok April 5 2021 12: 58
        +3
        'Guns instead of butter "- here both" guns "and" butter "combine weapons and food, like meat butter, etc. If you had butter, then most likely there was not enough meat, sausage, fruits, etc. .d.
      5. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A April 6 2021 11: 14
        0
        Quote: Bez 310
        Quote: Sahalinets
        we got guns instead of butter.
        I'm waiting for a bunch of minuses from people who have never lived in the USSR!

        I lived "in the USSR".
        Perhaps I lived in a different USSR than I lived in
        the rest, but I did not see the lack of "oil".
        He lived on the Kola Peninsula, in the Donbass, on
        Far East, Sakhalin often visited,
        in Kamchatka, and nowhere did the people suffer without oil.


        But Kuibyshev (now Samara) has always been a "hungry" city.
        Butter? It has never been on store shelves since 75.
        Fish? Only capelin. Then by the beginning of the 80s in the huge shops "Ocean" - canned whale meat and seaweed. And that's all.
        The meat is awful.
        Sausage - only doctor's.
        In the early 80s
        An adult was supposed to have a monthly rate
        1 bottle of vodka, a pound of sausage, a kilogram of sugar, 300 grams of pasta, 400 grams of cereals, 1 pack of washing powder, 5 boxes of matches, 1 piece of toilet soap, 1 kilogram of sugar and 150 grams of sweets,
        Moreover, the only system in the city by which normal people could buy something of high-quality products was in ... the registry office ...
        There was a real practice when young guys came. wrote applications to the registry office, received food coupons for the wedding and then canceled the wedding.
        I have seen this dozens of times with all my older acquaintances.

        Everyone had to buy in the markets.
      6. max702
        max702 April 6 2021 12: 25
        0
        You would be in the non-black earth and the Volga region, in Ivanovo and Kostroma .. That's when understanding would come ..
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 April 6 2021 15: 13
          -1
          Quote: max702
          You should be in the non-black earth and the Volga region, in Ivanovo and Kostroma ..

          I had a great life in Severomorsk,
          Why do I need "in the non-black earth and the Volga region"?
          "Everyone chooses for himself ...".
          1. max702
            max702 April 6 2021 16: 43
            0
            Well, it may be fine for you, but for us in the Volga region of the Urals and other primordially Russian places, it’s not very good .. Not at all ..
  3. GEOID
    GEOID April 5 2021 06: 58
    +11
    It was a good project.
    The last thing filmed while working together.
    This is on the topic "Anomaly" - ice detection.
    They put the "scientist" on a boat.




  4. Professor
    Professor April 5 2021 07: 49
    +12
    Test article. Respect to the author. good
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 5 2021 18: 19
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      Test article. Respect to the author.

      I agree. I knew a lot, but I also learned a lot!
      This article by MA differs from his previous work in its constructivism and restrained criticism of the gaps that took place.
      Therefore, the impression of the article is completely different. There is no previous negativity splashed out on an unprepared audience. Gone are the fever of the battle for increasing the combat readiness of the submarine forces of the fleet. The whole story is neatly laid out in a historical outline. Respect. hi
      1. Alien From
        Alien From April 6 2021 17: 08
        +2
        Let me join you, it is written in a very balanced way hi
  5. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 April 5 2021 08: 41
    +3
    an interesting article about the most important part of the fleet
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 5 2021 09: 32
    +6
    Thanks to Maxim for a great article. I read it with pleasure.
    For me, many years ago, it was completely incomprehensible why they were simultaneously building two SSBN projects (667BDR and 941), only later, after understanding the issue, I realized that there were objective reasons for this ...
    1. Usher
      Usher April 5 2021 21: 38
      -1
      Quote: Doccor18
      Thanks to Maxim for a great article. I read it with pleasure.
      For me, many years ago, it was completely incomprehensible why they were simultaneously building two SSBN projects (667BDR and 941), only later, after understanding the issue, I realized that there were objective reasons for this ...

      No offense, but this can be understood even by reading the wiki about these submarines.
      1. Titus_2
        Titus_2 April 7 2021 12: 00
        0
        The minus is not from me, but to get into pedia or here to find out the difference is great.
        1. Usher
          Usher April 7 2021 16: 46
          -1
          Quote: Titus_2
          The minus is not from me, but to get into pedia or here to find out the difference is great.

          Well, I'm interested in technology and science. And I'm looking for information wherever I can. For me, TOPVAR is only as an information platform, and not as an encyclopedia)
  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 10: 03
    +7
    Well what can I say? Traditional "+"
  8. Bez 310
    Bez 310 April 5 2021 10: 13
    +12
    The article is interesting and informative.
    I would like to hope that the article was written not only for
    to discuss the topic of "guns instead of butter", but
    and for something else ...
    1. GEOID
      GEOID April 5 2021 11: 23
      +1
      It is possible for humor. Suffered for 667. (((
      Andrei Mendel, cellmate, Frunze, BDR navigator abandoned in aviation. I drew it and hung it up. Someone invested. I suspect Varnakov, Safronov's rightist. Future ..... nasalnik.
      The police officer took the picture, they whipped us. Taken red-handed for drinking ...
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr April 5 2021 21: 15
        0
        Quote: GEOID
        Drawn, hung ...
        The same, the photo served as incriminating evidence, but the search carried out by the deputy engineer at our workplace yielded no results ...
    2. KKND
      KKND April 5 2021 11: 36
      +10
      Quote: Bez 310
      I would like to hope that the article was written not only for
      to discuss the topic of "guns instead of butter", but
      and for something else ...

      Unfortunately, you came to this resource too late. About 7-8 years ago, people were really discussing complex military equipment, but now the level is: "guns instead of oil" basically.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa April 5 2021 18: 40
        +1
        Quote: KKND
        About 7-8 years ago, people were really discussing complex military equipment, but now the level is: "guns instead of oil" basically.

        - Yes, aaa! - said Kisa Vorobyaninov. (with)
        What do you want, colleague? - Neophytes! The victims of the exam ... And now this:
  9. xomaNN
    xomaNN April 5 2021 11: 18
    +3
    I read this article with pleasure. A lot of fact. Indeed, the nuclear submarine pr.667 A / B ... were the main shock club of the USSR Navy wassat
  10. Niko
    Niko April 5 2021 11: 22
    +7
    Special thanks to the author for the fact that he is not afraid to write from article to article about REAL work, REAL successes or failures, REAL pros and cons of projects, AND REAL lagging behind in certain areas. state, but try to write a comment about something on the news thread - the reaction is immediate - - - - -
  11. KKND
    KKND April 5 2021 11: 33
    0
    I liked the article, but there were a lot of questions.
    1. According to the schedule of boat noise by years. Why is the noise of American boats decreasing over the years and not increasing? And ours remain unchanged? After all, over the years, due to wear and tear of mechanisms, all boats should "get noisy"?
    2. How can the ANN work be accelerated 10 times? Increase the spin speed of gyro flywheels? what
    These are very complex systems. Is it possible to make such serious improvements?
    3.
    For example, one of the most serious troubles that sharply worsened the secrecy of SSBNs was their prolonged "walking on one leg" (shaft lines). And here the considerations could be from an illiterate opinion that so, "in an American way", supposedly "quieter" (and the level of broadband noise did decrease, but with a sharp increase in low-frequency discrete components, according to which the enemy detected SSBNs from very long distances)

    How can the low-frequency discrete components increase if the propeller starts to turn at a higher frequency? After all, on one screw, in order to go with a reasonable speed, it is necessary to turn it harder?
    Or was there something else here? Or did it mean the shaft of the reactor turbine?
    1. GEOID
      GEOID April 5 2021 15: 15
      +1
      Quote: KKND
      How low-frequency discrete components can increase

      There are no high-frequency DSs in nature)))
      Walking on the same shaft is Dudko's personal opinion (Heroes of Bangor).
      The topic is very deep and requires a series of articles, but of interest to a small number of readers. There are specialized sites like those of the simulator lovers. And here is consumer reading, such as "Chips No". Well, the uncertainty of the contingent. Too many pretend to be "Brave Pilots and Sailors". And to dig, ask what, where and how ...
      And photos ... I've put hundreds of mine here in seven years. If he served, where is the school? Fears? Means a troll or a liar.
      Well, or the "pilots" themselves will give it out. At least cry.
      1. KKND
        KKND April 5 2021 15: 39
        0
        Quote: GEOID
        There are no high-frequency DSs in nature)))

        Here is a dark forest for me, Sound can be both low-frequency and high-frequency? A complex oscillation can be decomposed by the Fourier transform into simpler ones, is this really not a DS? And they can also be of different frequencies?
        Quote: GEOID
        Walking on the same shaft is Dudko's personal opinion (Heroes of Bangor).

        So I did not understand what kind of shaft? propeller shaft or turbine shaft?
        Quote: GEOID
        Well, or the "pilots" themselves will give it out. At least cry.

        There is such a "looking glass" that I myself have been racking my head for 7 years who is who. Answer: a normal specialist will most likely not stay here, but there are still, like, several pilots and several sailors, there are tankers, there was an artilleryman.
        Here in 2019, bots coordinated their propaganda vectors directly through the articles in the news section. I am a person far from this, but as I understand they do not have a computer center, apparently it is expensive to maintain, they write from home when the propaganda vector of the Russian Federation under the influence of external or internal reasons changes, something else needs to be written to them and this resource through the news section is short notes coordinated their propaganda, all this IMHO and I have no evidence, just observations.
        Are you, excuse me, a flyer or a sailor? If I only flew in a virtual simulator (computer game), I only understand a little there.
        I have very little understanding of the maritime business.
        1. GEOID
          GEOID April 5 2021 16: 30
          +1
          Everything is on the site.
          There is HF radiation, it is "continuous", does not create a DS. More precisely, they cannot be used. Features of acoustic stations. As I say, the topic is murky. You need a strong stake. to read literature.
          Books on acoustics. But I think it's not worth wasting time.


          Some believed that SSBNs on one shaft were less noisy. There are both for and against this version. Most likely it is in the conditions of use, speed, condition of the boat, depths and experience of the commander and RTSnik.
          Dudko, when working in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, with SSBNs, considered that this was so. The recommendations of the fleet DU were the opposite.
      2. timokhin-aa
        April 5 2021 18: 51
        0
        From Maxim:

        what Dudko discovered by his "one-leggedness" was "slightly and slightly" (taking into account the fact that his analysis bandwidth was limited by the main antenna of the "Skata-KS")
        and the real problem (and the most serious one) was when walking on "one leg" in ELF.

        It was the MOST unmasking discrete "azukhi", with which at the Pacific Fleet Dobn they reached simply crazy values.
        And there is simply no subject for controversy.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 5 2021 18: 59
      +1
      Quote: KKND
      2. How can the ANN work be accelerated 10 times?

      The normal spinning mode for gyroscopes is 10 hours. Emergency entry - 1 hour. And it takes a day for them to come normally to the meridian.
      Quote: KKND
      How can the low-frequency discrete components increase if the propeller starts to turn at a higher frequency?

      They wrote to you: broadband decreased, and low frequencies, due to an increase in the load on the support and thrust-support bearings of the LP, grow. The load on the LP is growing, the productivity of pumps and other mechanisms that provide the low-frequency spectrum is increasing, vibrations are transmitted to the PC, etc.
      Quote: KKND
      is it possible to make such serious improvements?

      Can. First there was a liquid suspension of the sphere, then an air suspension, then an electromagnetic one. Now laser gyroscopes, inertialess ... And the INC in general was put on the platform. True, in astronautics they have moved away - the total system error is growing. Returned alone ...
    3. Usher
      Usher April 5 2021 21: 37
      -1
      Quote: KKND
      I liked the article, but there were a lot of questions.
      1. According to the schedule of boat noise by years. Why is the noise of American boats decreasing over the years and not increasing? And ours remain unchanged? After all, over the years, due to wear and tear of mechanisms, all boats should "get noisy"?
      2. How can the ANN work be accelerated 10 times? Increase the spin speed of gyro flywheels? what
      These are very complex systems. Is it possible to make such serious improvements?
      3.
      For example, one of the most serious troubles that sharply worsened the secrecy of SSBNs was their prolonged "walking on one leg" (shaft lines). And here the considerations could be from an illiterate opinion that so, "in an American way", supposedly "quieter" (and the level of broadband noise did decrease, but with a sharp increase in low-frequency discrete components, according to which the enemy detected SSBNs from very long distances)

      How can the low-frequency discrete components increase if the propeller starts to turn at a higher frequency? After all, on one screw, in order to go with a reasonable speed, it is necessary to turn it harder?
      Or was there something else here? Or did it mean the shaft of the reactor turbine?

      What can I say, this is facepalm.
  12. Mooh
    Mooh April 5 2021 11: 41
    +4
    Wow, Maxim Klimov can not only be negative! A sensible, balanced article, not very banal and informative. I will follow the link about the Shark and read something, I missed it, I hope that the material there is no worse.
  13. ccsr
    ccsr April 5 2021 13: 33
    -5
    The first serious article by Klimov, which can be viewed both as an excellent historical excursion, and as a sentence to Timokhin's dreams of creating an ocean-going surface fleet, because the obviousness of the development of the submarine fleet was understood even in the seventies by the same "boots". Moreover, the author himself described what an important role our NSNF played for the General Staff:
    The success of the operation is ensured by long, advance preparation and careful planning, taking into account many options for solving the problem. This is constantly being done by the General Staff, which determines ahead of time and, if necessary, clarifies the list and coordinates of objects to be destroyed. Assigns the order and degree of damage to each object. Establishes the share of participation, the resource of ammunition and the distribution of target complexes between the components of the nuclear triad, as well as the issues of their interaction with each other. The General Staff introduces and periodically modifies the command and control signal system.

    Based on the current capabilities, I think that it is this component of the fleet that should develop, even to the detriment of other structures of the Navy.
    1. timokhin-aa
      April 5 2021 14: 02
      +9
      Here is just one moment forgotten - then there were too many of these boats to overwhelm everyone. Not now. Moreover, without the forces to support them, they will be overwhelmed.
      And SSBN + support forces are capable of providing only nuclear deterrence and nothing else at all.

      And our country's tasks are not limited to nuclear deterrence.
      1. GEOID
        GEOID April 5 2021 14: 21
        +4
        I used to collect ... But there are already two dozen screenshots.
        Tired, he will not calm down. A blooper on a blooper. The operator is revealed in details, the person has absolutely no command of terms and concepts. Let him write ... can fight dementia.

        1. KKND
          KKND April 5 2021 15: 13
          +1
          Quote: GEOID
          Let him write ... can fight dementia.

          There may well be an option that the person is on the payroll. It is easier to say a pro-Kremlin bot that leads from home, retired, propaganda on the Internet, for an additional payment to a military pension. At least not a Ukrainian bot, those are even worse. There used to be a lot of them here (bots), but since the resource started having problems with funding, many have "faded", but some are still present.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. KKND
              KKND April 5 2021 16: 16
              +3
              Yes, I myself like to do this here, but most bots only sculpt avatars with different techniques, but they themselves still do not say that they are flyers or submariners. But there are those who directly say that he flew, but he himself does not even know what radio direction finding is on an airplane. I myself was banned when I superfat trolled. But then the resource started having problems with financing and after 2 years I was unbanned, like I would not live to be fat.
              In general, the resource is journalistic, and the journalists themselves are note-taking trolls, they write under a pseudonym, then they change it. Today they have one opinion tomorrow another. And for some reason, professionals are banned for trolling. Through the looking glass.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr April 5 2021 18: 20
          +1
          Quote: GEOID
          I used to collect ... But there are already two dozen screenshots.

          So the sense that you have gathered, if you have no idea what is meant by the words "in the operational link of species reconnaissance" - you are just an amateur in these matters.
          What is the GSVG Directory

          Here's what - educate yourself:
          1. timokhin-aa
            April 5 2021 18: 55
            0
            What is LHC?
            1. ccsr
              ccsr April 5 2021 19: 15
              -1
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              What is LHC?

              And this man convinces me that he understands official documents ...
              1. timokhin-aa
                April 6 2021 10: 33
                0
                Prapor I'm checking you.
                You don't even see what is written on your page. And you shove this scribble as an argument laughing
                Seek professional help urgently.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr April 6 2021 11: 54
                  -1
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  Prapor I'm checking you.

                  You are too illiterate for that.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  You don't even see what is written on your page.

                  You yourself do not see, since you asked a stupid question, and when they pointed it out to you, you immediately began to wriggle.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  And you shove this scribble as an argument

                  You don't even have those, you get everything from the Internet, which is why you constantly find yourself in a mess. By the way, this is not a "scribble" but a service reference book of the DSP for the command of a group of troops.
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    April 6 2021 12: 39
                    +1
                    You don't even have such, you get everything from the Internet, that's why you constantly get into trouble


                    Yes, I do not get into a hole, calm down. You are trying to write such things, because you are constantly being poked in the dirt by everyone you yapped at, including me.

                    I just checked your reaction - whether you read it or posted it or not. It turns out that no.
            2. GEOID
              GEOID April 5 2021 19: 30
              0
              He himself does not know ... amid the hype, I typed both chipboard and secret ones.
              Write-off issue.
              All this is outdated for a long time.
              Unfortunately, iron is not outdated. With which the same simulators are trying to work.
              Who will tell you about X, K, DAC, etc.?

              1. ccsr
                ccsr April 5 2021 20: 23
                -2
                Quote: GEOID
                Write-off issue.
                All this is outdated for a long time.

                Of course it's outdated - it's 1992, and the edition was limited. But your chatter was immediately apparent.
                Quote: GEOID
                The SPECIES reconnaissance does not have an OPERATIONAL link. TACTICAL !!!
                Well, at least cry.

                I already understood that you are a complete amateur in military knowledge, since you only knew how to get vodka to the chiefs in Kamchatka, but I will conduct a small educational program for you.
                Specific reconnaissance is called reconnaissance of a branch of the armed forces. It can be tactical, operational and strategic, as it was in the Navy. The main headquarters of the Navy was responsible for strategic reconnaissance, the headquarters of the fleets for the operational, and the headquarters of the formations for the tactical.
                And now "expert", tell me who the Pacific Fleet's small and medium intelligence ships worked for, and for whom the Ural was supposed to work, which the incompetent naval commanders destroyed to the detriment of the country. He, too, was supposed to conduct tactical reconnaissance, being under operational subordination to the command of the Pacific Fleet?
                Well, and the last question for filling - the intelligence posts for whom did they work?
                1. GEOID
                  GEOID April 5 2021 20: 46
                  +1
                  The mistake of a normal person is that he begins to argue with a sharper.
                  I told you everything a long time ago.
                  Got excited ... but we'd better not communicate. It will be easier for everyone.
                  Consider that I jumped.
            3. Anzhey V.
              Anzhey V. April 5 2021 20: 39
              -1
              What is LHC?


              Bomber Aviation Corps.
              1. GEOID
                GEOID April 5 2021 20: 48
                -1
                And there were such? )))
                1. Anzhey V.
                  Anzhey V. April 5 2021 21: 08
                  -1
                  In the USSR, this term was in use, after the end of World War II, he finally left the Air Force.

                  But in relation to some American connections it was applied. Apparently, comrade ccsr has just that case in the reference book.

                  But he, to us damned illiterate amateurs, will not tell anything.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr April 6 2021 12: 03
                    -1
                    Quote: Anjay V.
                    But in relation to some American connections it was applied. Apparently, comrade ccsr has just that case in the reference book.

                    But he, to us damned illiterate amateurs, will not tell anything.

                    You are too primitive to fantasize, because the text implies that the LHC is the Air Combat Command, which appeared in 1991 as a consequence of the Gulf War, when the Americans realized that they also needed a mobile air command, which can be quickly transfer to any continent. This was revealed by us, as well as the appearance of some parts of these structures at the Central Election District of the theater. But illiterate people begin to select the terms they know for this abbreviation and then chimeras are born in your head like:
                    Quote: Anjay V.

                    Bomber Aviation Corps.
                    1. Anzhey V.
                      Anzhey V. April 6 2021 22: 13
                      -1
                      Thank you for the clarification)

                      You are so funny, of course - you yourself do not know that there used to be bomber aviation corps, and you run in front of your pants to tell how illiterate everyone around you is. Do you have any complexes for an hour?

                      And then it's somehow strange - so much unmotivated aggression ...
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr April 7 2021 09: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Anjay V.
                        You are so funny, of course - you yourself do not know that there used to be bomber aviation corps,

                        In 1992 there were also - are you out of your mind, "connoisseur"? And before, there were cavalry armies, so now, and now, these terms are used when you do not understand what is thwarted by the abbreviation of the spacecraft.
                        Quote: Anjay V.
                        Do you have any complexes for an hour?

                        This complex remained after the IMF forum, so you are trying to get rid of it here.
            4. Konstantin Pekhlivanov
              Konstantin Pekhlivanov April 5 2021 23: 05
              0
              Possibly Air Combat Command. Although, as it was created, there were no longer the F-111 and F-4G.
          2. GEOID
            GEOID April 5 2021 19: 59
            0
            The SPECIES reconnaissance does not have an OPERATIONAL link. TACTICAL !!!
            Well, at least cry.
            1. GEOID
              GEOID April 5 2021 20: 05
              0
              Probably, you and I are better off not noticing each other.
              So the informer Kirill Guk-Kobra merged and everything became easier.
      2. KKND
        KKND April 5 2021 14: 59
        +3
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        And our country's tasks are not limited to nuclear deterrence.

        It is useless to argue with the adherents of the theory of "land" and "sea" powers sucked from the finger. They even hired one of the main propagandists of this theory for a salary at Moscow State University, Mr. D.
        These theories try to pass off need as virtue. Allegedly, we do not need a fleet since we are a "land power".
        It doesn't matter that water occupies 2/3 of the Earth's surface and the main trade is by sea, since we cannot physically build a powerful fleet, it means that we do not need it, we are "land-based".
        The USSR occupied a huge part of the land, but it was 2 in the development of the fleet, they could afford this and everyone understood.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa April 5 2021 20: 09
          0
          Quote: KKND
          The USSR occupied a huge part of the land, but it was 2 in the development of the fleet, they could afford this and everyone understood.

          Colleague, glory to the Almighty, at least someone understands that Russian tsars were wise rulers, because led their power to the seas! First to the Black, and then to the Baltic.
          Gorshkov and Brezhnev took our fleet to the Ocean ...
          But the witnesses of the "flat earth" are still sharpening for the "land" Russia, which is forever barred from the road to the sea! Horror !!!
      3. ccsr
        ccsr April 5 2021 17: 52
        -4
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        And our country's tasks are not limited to nuclear deterrence.

        The journalist Timokhin does not reduce this, but in the General Staff they always believed and believed in a completely different way, because they
        Sets the share of participation, the resource of ammunition and the distribution of target complexes between the components of the nuclear triad, as well as issues of their interaction with each other.



        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Here is just one moment forgotten - then there were too many of these boats to overwhelm everyone.

        I don't give a damn about all the boats, because the main attack was always planned on the territory of the United States and large bases, and not on the American fleet - Timokhin does not know this either.
        1. timokhin-aa
          April 5 2021 18: 54
          +2
          I don't give a damn about all the boats, because the main attack was always planned on the territory of the United States and large bases, and not on the American fleet - Timokhin does not know this either.


          You are already carrying you. We are talking about SSBNs with ballistic missiles - and they took part in these attacks.
          1. GEOID
            GEOID April 5 2021 19: 54
            +3
            This is OV ... He could not know it. And I, with a tolerance of 1 form, SS and OV, who prepared the calculations for the SSBN at the headquarters of the Far Eastern Military District (Ulan-Ude), did not know either.
            All this is a provocation for information. Well, show-off.
            What the deputy chief could know. shift, who assigned the fighters to clean the snow? The squadron leader was engaged in this for me.
            Are you sane?
            1. ccsr
              ccsr April 5 2021 20: 36
              0
              Quote: GEOID
              What the deputy chief could know. shift, who assigned the fighters to clean the snow? The squadron leader was engaged in this for me.

              Well, verbiage, it is immediately clear that, apart from getting vodka, he did not learn anything in the army - firstly, our duty officer had a regular major post in the department where there were thirty officers and half of them were senior officers, and secondly, it was the duty officer who was personally responsible for disrupting combat duty, which is why only he had the right to determine who could be removed from his post to clean the snow.
              However, you did not serve in the army for a long time, apparently you picked up vershoks, but you still don’t know the service. I am not surprised why you, like Klimov, did not stay in the army - they do not move such verbiage much, and, if possible, get rid of such.
              Quote: GEOID
              And I am with a tolerance of 1 form, SS and OV,

              I had it in my third year, and now what to write with boiling water for joy?
              1. GEOID
                GEOID April 5 2021 20: 52
                +3
                Quote: ccsr
                I had it in my third year, and now what to write with boiling water for joy?

                VUS in the studio. And the question is closed.
                My

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  14. 501Legion
    501Legion April 5 2021 16: 39
    +3
    Thank you for the article
  15. Tests
    Tests April 5 2021 18: 03
    +6
    Dear VO commentators! Starting to discuss the topic "There was no sausage in the USSR," please remember my request, which I voiced 5 times already, at least. At first. Telling and comparing life in the USSR, let's measure everything as in the USSR - five-year terms. After all, 1940 was a little different from 1945, 1960 from 1965, and 1980 from 1985, and even more so from 1990. Secondly. Write exactly where you lived. Life in Moscow and Leningrad was a little different from life in the capitals of the Union republics, and life in the regional center was different from life in the regional center, and even more so in the timber industry enterprise, collective farm or state farm. And even in the same city there were different enterprises. In Severodvinsk, there are military-industrial complex plants (with their subsidiary farms) and SevDormash (of which only memory remains), a sewing and furniture factory (the same only memory remains), two thermal power plants and regional power grids, a timber industry enterprise (died quietly, but UZhD became municipal and lives ), KSKM (Combine of Building Structures and Materials) and 6 Construction Departments, Combine "Teplichny" (eternal memory to him), meat-packing plant, bakery, refrigerator, vegetable warehouse, PATP (passenger motor transport company), "Obshchepit", "Promtovary", " Foodstuffs "," City Administration "(Wow, how gloriously they were privatized!), Not counting educational institutions, post offices and savings banks, and doctors: military, city and" factory "- now subordinate to FMBA RF ... Third. Even in one garrison there were different types of troops. Each branch of the army had its own units. In each part there was an early. thing and early. prod, and there were different people in the warehouses, and in the canteens. "One torment - but different hands" - not invented by us. ..In my native Severodvinsk there were sailors, air defense missilemen, border guards and a construction battalion. A training detachment and a school of technicians, a training ground in Nyonoks, submariners, ships of the auxiliary fleet, OVR men, the headquarters of the base - all wore the same black naval uniform, but did not obey each other, were supplied in different ways ... Was it somehow different for you?
    In 1978, when I came to "Zvezdochka" for the first time, I heard about the 667 - "Dzhorzhiki". And since 1979, as it was on television, "The meeting place cannot be changed," they began to say about "667 Bukakhs": "Humpbacked".
    Many thanks to Maxim Klimov for the article.
  16. Aag
    Aag April 5 2021 19: 09
    +2
    What a wonderful, interesting article! - Another thanks to the Author! - Explains a lot. But, for example, an interested layman, I have a lot of questions. I looked forward to interesting comments. (((....
    And here, - mostly, - when where the oil disappeared, who has the VUS ... "longer" ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  17. Simple
    Simple April 5 2021 19: 25
    +1
    The US Naval Institute recently published an article dedicated to the 66th anniversary of SOSUS.

    https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2021/february/66-years-undersea-surveillance
    1. Aag
      Aag April 6 2021 18: 46
      +1
      Quote: Simple
      The US Naval Institute recently published an article dedicated to the 66th anniversary of SOSUS.

      https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2021/february/66-years-undersea-surveillance

      Thank you!
      I looked, and the topic began to grow with interesting details in the comments ...
      1. Simple
        Simple April 8 2021 09: 41
        +1
        At the time that article was published, it was readable without a subscription.
        Now the reading is limited to the contingent of subscribers.
        Of course it is sad.
        Try it.
  18. Pavel57
    Pavel57 April 5 2021 19: 38
    +1
    Quote: Sahalinets
    And this is how we got guns instead of butter.

    With controversial stability in the event of the outbreak of war, the naval component of the triad.
  19. GEOID
    GEOID April 5 2021 19: 47
    +1
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    It was the MOST unmasking discrete "azukhi", with which at the Pacific Fleet Dobn they reached simply crazy values.
    And there is simply no subject for controversy.

    No need to argue.
    A couple of times a year I visited the Sovetskoye with acousticians. I took data on "Fox". Well, WAAASCHE)))
    I wrote it according to the situation. Commander's decision, type, season and movement parameters.
    SOSUS is not there ... And "Los" ... check, call the aircraft, go into shallow water.
    Dudko chose the wrong area for experiments. Moreover, HE IS THE ONLY SOURCE ....
    Well, he thought so.
    According to Dudko, there was BDR.
    In the Okhotsk AU, she could do whatever she wanted. Its goals are secondary. By start-up restrictions.
    Targets are Okinawa and Alaska.
  20. bandabas
    bandabas April 5 2021 21: 08
    +1
    There was an option with 90-degree rotary blocks for missiles on the sides of the nuclear submarine. During the demonstration of the model of the nuclear submarine of the project 667, the demonstration for the country's leadership was presented as the launching unit passes from the traveling position to the combat position. On the model, the rotary part of the missile unit is stuck in an intermediate position. To which, N.S. Khrushchev noticed, if this happens on a model, what will happen in combat service, in a combat situation, and what all this can lead to. According to rumors, this was the reason for the closure of Project 667 in this form.
  21. Usher
    Usher April 5 2021 21: 25
    -1
    However, the advantages of such a layout made it possible to consistently implement measures to reduce noise on this and subsequent modifications of the second generation missile carriers and to achieve dramatic success in solving this problem, which were fully confirmed in the future.
    very strange logic. And immediately make it low-noise, that is, lead to the maximum low noise at that time in any way? The question just arises, these words sound like excuses.
    Interesting facts, but for example a question about the organization. Is it difficult to calculate in advance? What kind of "smart guys" were sitting in the headquarters who cannot organize the maximum efficiency? You can think it over in a couple of evenings on paper. At least algorithms, and then debug little things. No
    The whole point turned out to be that we did not have elementary experience of cyclic use of RPK SN. By the cycle, we understood the totality of interrelated processes that form the completed period of use of the PKK SN in the base, in combat training and in combat service.
    as if the Americans had this experience.
    1. GEOID
      GEOID April 5 2021 21: 43
      -1
      Quote: Usher
      And immediately make it low-noise, that is, lead to the maximum low noise at that time in any way? ......... By a cycle, we understood a set of interrelated processes that form the completed period of use of the PKK SN in the base, in combat training and in combat service.
      as if the Americans had this experience.

      Even WIKI has ...
      In early 1980, the Soviet foreign trade organization Tehmashimport contacted Wako Koeki, a small Japanese trading company with a representative office in Moscow. Negotiations in Moscow began after Wako Koeki established contact with Toshiba Machine, which agreed to provide the necessary high-tech equipment. The Toshiba Machine catalog included a US $ 110 million MBP-5 dedicated milling machine for the production of propellers. In the USSR, they wanted to purchase this particular model of the machine because of its nine independently adjustable spindles (axes), which made it possible to grind screws with a diameter of more than 9 meters of complex shape. To avoid suspicion from Japanese export licensing officials, Toshiba brought in its permanent exporter, C. Itoh & Company "(Itochu). To insure the deal, the two companies hired the Norwegian company Kongsberg Trade (the trading arm of the state defense enterprise Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk), which allegedly sold its digital control system and related software to the Japanese.

      Here ...



      Here also


      Here also


      This also includes the lack of FOSS, normal BPA, statistics and noise bank.
      1. Usher
        Usher April 5 2021 22: 02
        0
        Quote: GEOID
        Quote: Usher
        And immediately make it low-noise, that is, lead to the maximum low noise at that time in any way? ......... By a cycle, we understood a set of interrelated processes that form the completed period of use of the PKK SN in the base, in combat training and in combat service.
        as if the Americans had this experience.

        Even WIKI has ...
        In early 1980, the Soviet foreign trade organization Tehmashimport contacted Wako Koeki, a small Japanese trading company with a representative office in Moscow. Negotiations in Moscow began after Wako Koeki established contact with Toshiba Machine, which agreed to provide the necessary high-tech equipment. The Toshiba Machine catalog included a US $ 110 million MBP-5 dedicated milling machine for the production of propellers. In the USSR, they wanted to purchase this particular model of the machine because of its nine independently adjustable spindles (axes), which made it possible to grind screws with a diameter of more than 9 meters of complex shape. To avoid suspicion from Japanese export licensing officials, Toshiba brought in its permanent exporter, C. Itoh & Company "(Itochu). To insure the deal, the two companies hired the Norwegian company Kongsberg Trade (the trading arm of the state defense enterprise Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk), which allegedly sold its digital control system and related software to the Japanese.

        Here ...



        Here also


        Here also


        This also includes the lack of FOSS, normal BPA, statistics and noise bank.

        What does the 80s have to do with it? There is such a public on VKontakte "Cat_Cat" there is a series of articles about Toshiba. https://vk.com/@1615387-noise-of-soviet-submarine-6 ​​Do you think I don't know the whole story? You would copy the entire wiki here. Are you talking about at least one-sidedness? Hedgehog, it is clear that the SSBN does not need speed, it needs stealth.
      2. Usher
        Usher April 5 2021 22: 12
        0
        Quote: GEOID
        Here also

        In the last quote, it seems to me just a set of words, for cleverness)))
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
      3. Antagonist
        Antagonist April 5 2021 23: 03
        +5
        Quote: GEOID
        Even WIKI has ...

        Well, if there is a wiki, then oh wink laughing
    2. GEOID
      GEOID April 5 2021 21: 50
      0
      Quote: Usher
      as if the Americans had this experience.

      Was.
      They worked hard.
      For example, few have heard of Alvarez. And this is a kind of ancestor of unconventional detection means.
      The side effect was muddied by slipping NIDAR. And the intelligence of the USSR was eating him.
      1. Usher
        Usher April 5 2021 22: 05
        +2
        Quote: GEOID
        Quote: Usher
        as if the Americans had this experience.

        Was.
        They worked hard.
        For example, few have heard of Alvarez. And this is a kind of ancestor of unconventional detection means.
        The side effect was muddied by slipping NIDAR. And the intelligence of the USSR was eating him.

        What are you talking about? What kind of experience? in the early 60s? I'm actually talking about the organization of the service. And not about low noise. You are like a fanatic with your quotes and links. Which immediately makes it clear that you are engaged and biased.
        1. GEOID
          GEOID April 5 2021 22: 32
          0
          So don't answer. Let's give your version. Let's discuss.
          If I have a desire that you have completely discouraged.)))
          1. Usher
            Usher April 5 2021 23: 01
            0
            Quote: GEOID
            So don't answer. Let's give your version. Let's discuss.
            If I have a desire that you have completely discouraged.)))

            I mean, don't answer? I haven’t asked you what to write or not. I didn’t write to you like that, but left my thoughts under the article. You got here with your "fairy tales".
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Usher
        Usher April 5 2021 22: 09
        0
        Sorry for the expression "nonsense".
        1. GEOID
          GEOID April 5 2021 22: 38
          -2
          Talking ... nonsense ... fanatic ...
          Who are you yourself? do you have your thoughts?
          1. Usher
            Usher April 5 2021 22: 58
            +3
            Quote: GEOID
            Talking ... nonsense ... fanatic ...
            Who are you yourself? do you have your thoughts?

            I write my thoughts, you dump me in response, a ton of "fakes" without links, just quotes taken out of context. Your feverishness and not a desire to even read and comprehend the text, gives you a fanatic "dilettante", it's like "alternatives" who have read or heard some theory somewhere and they "liked" it (they liked it, and did not convince with facts and argumentation) ... I also read about all sorts of "uberpuper veender wafers" all sorts of fields, etc. Only there is no exact information about them, only incomprehensible articles on the Internet run. And what you wrote in general has nothing to do with what I wrote, you do not even understand what I am writing about. Especially funny about the US pilots during WWII and about some kind of effect there, I did not understand at all what it was about, and how to connect it with the nuclear submarine, which does not even pop up, but it was funny.
            I wrote that the quotes in the article give off "excuses". I have some questions. That the "smart" heads in the headquarters could not in any way plan the combat service of the SSBN? Is it that difficult? Guess about two crews? Make charts? And about the low noise, when they cite the strong noise of our first SSBNs as a "dignity", they say, look, but then we consistently lowered the noise. This shows that the design is correct. Yes, emae! Immediately "dokumekat" in any way? What would not fix the jambs later? I understand what the afterthought speaks in me. But the answers are obvious. Maybe there were insurmountable conditions and situations that made it impossible to build more secretive boats. But the article does not reveal this, and I start from it.
            1. GEOID
              GEOID April 5 2021 23: 09
              +1
              Here.
              About the secrecy of the Soviet SSBNs. What is the problem?
              http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=27761
              Here.
              Aircraft search for underwater objects
              https://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2247
              Here.
              http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/

              Scroll and choose what you need.
              This is mine, I wrote it myself. Don't forget to read the comments. There's even more.
              1. Usher
                Usher April 5 2021 23: 14
                0
                Quote: GEOID
                Here.
                About the secrecy of the Soviet SSBNs. What is the problem?
                http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=27761
                Here.
                Aircraft search for underwater objects
                https://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2247
                Here.
                http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/

                Scroll and choose what you need.
                This is mine, I wrote it myself. Don't forget to read the comments. There's even more.

                What kind of "boyans" are you showing me? Did you just wake up? Don't write anymore, ok? There is not even a desire to go back to these "zheltopressnye" forums.
                1. GEOID
                  GEOID April 5 2021 23: 17
                  -1
                  Approx.
                  Fast, fast, sama.
                  Look for information yourself. Good luck)))
                  I spend time on you, and you still have complaints ...
                  1. Usher
                    Usher April 6 2021 01: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: GEOID
                    Approx.
                    Fast, fast, sama.
                    Look for information yourself. Good luck)))
                    I spend time on you, and you still have complaints ...

                    Do you really think so? I wrote to you that you sent me "boyans" and where does the time and yourself?
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr April 6 2021 12: 31
                  -1
                  Quote: Usher
                  What kind of "boyans" are you showing me? Did you just wake up?

                  He constantly slips them here, but under different nicknames. And so it is clear why this Svidomo has developed such a vigorous activity here - there in Ukraine he is not taken seriously, so he decided to teach the Russian public.
  22. exo
    exo April 5 2021 21: 56
    +2
    I found the parish in Rybachiy, Kamchatka, of the first BDR. But I don’t remember the slang name of this project, unlike 667A. But I don’t pretend to be the last resort. I was still a kid.
  23. beeper
    beeper April 5 2021 23: 23
    +1
    I will definitely read this interesting Article a little later (I already added it to my favorites)!
    In the early 1990s, he even made a model of the SSBN project 667 himself according to the drawings in the "Modelist-Constructor" magazine.
    My childhood friend, a graduate of the Sevastopol Naval School, who went to sea on these ships, then drew my attention to the fact that the water intakes for cooling nuclear reactors are located on both sides of the submarine. winked
    But somehow I didn't ask him at that meeting (and we never saw each other, we live in different countries) and there is no one to ask (my second friend, a submariner, also moved from the North to Moscow and in our native places "we do not intersect"), what kind of "butterfly", glazed, is located in front of the cruiser's wheelhouse enclosure, just below the row of windows ?!
    Maybe some of the respected submariners, readers of the Site, just "in the subject", will briefly enlighten my dullness in this matter, if, of course, this is not a "military secret" ?!
    In my declining years, I remembered my former youthful hobby for modeling and, especially, the history of the Russian submarine fleet, now for peace of mind (you see, from submarines and to homemade sailing ship models I will move "knots to knit" ?!))).
    And this is such a characteristic "butterfly" on the wheelhouse of Soviet missile carriers - I would like not just to blindly copy, but there is no one to ask about its "functionality" (our places are far from the sea and the rest of my familiar sailors all served on cruisers and destroyers) ! winked
    1. GEOID
      GEOID April 5 2021 23: 44
      0
      Quote: pishchak
      what is this "butterfly", glazed

      Not glazed.
      Something for navigation, my guess))).
      1. beeper
        beeper April 6 2021 00: 37
        0
        hi Thank you very much for the answer and the photo, dear aka GEOID! good
        Also I suppose something similar, some thread flashing "navigation light", a connected (semaphore) or emergency "signal" ??!
        So far I do not have complete clarity as to how to correctly imitate and paint this "butterfly" on the model. I always look closely at photos and videos! winked
  24. Rlptrt
    Rlptrt April 6 2021 07: 38
    +1
    Excellent article.
    The main conclusion: when they wanted, they did 34 boards in 6 years, when they didn't want to, they did 4 in 30 years.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr April 6 2021 12: 35
      0
      Quote: Rlptrt
      Excellent article.

      I agree - the article is interesting, Klimov distinguished himself.
      Quote: Rlptrt
      The main conclusion: when they wanted, they did 34 boards in 6 years, when they didn't want to, they did 4 in 30 years.

      And did it make sense to be so struggling to destroy the United States five or six times? Maybe once is enough?
      1. timokhin-aa
        April 6 2021 12: 48
        +1
        And did it make sense to be so struggling to destroy the United States five or six times? Maybe once is enough?

        That's what I understand - officer!
      2. Rlptrt
        Rlptrt April 7 2021 18: 36
        +1
        Maybe once is enough. The only problem is, will all this "clutter" be enough even for one time?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr April 7 2021 19: 53
          -1
          Quote: Rlptrt
          Maybe once is enough. The only problem is, will all this "clutter" be enough even for one time?

          I think that's enough, taking into account man-made disasters. And the Americans themselves know about this, which is why they never dare to engage in a military clash with us in any conflicts, even such as in Syria.
          1. Rlptrt
            Rlptrt April 7 2021 22: 45
            +2
            No. It is very likely that even once is not enough. For a very large percentage of even those that can go to sea will be destroyed by layered anti-submarine defense. And a large percentage will be shot down by missile defense.
            Americans do not want to pollute themselves with vigorous explosions. Nevada was enough for them. They are even afraid of one of Kim's missiles. Why, if there are other ways? They destroyed the union from within, and then bought up its remains for beads. They planted dolls with children and money there, over the hill. Why the heck and who to fight with? Easier and better to manage and rob. Do you think they don't need Nord Stream, that it is being blocked and stifled by sanctions? Needed. Only not for the money that the tsar's oligarchs want to get, but for nothing. And they will receive it for free. As already received a lot.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr April 8 2021 12: 25
              +1
              Quote: Rlptrt
              And a large percentage will be shot down by missile defense.
              Americans do not want to pollute themselves with vigorous explosions.

              Can you name at least one American exercise, where at least several warheads were shot down at the same time, so that I believe in your "big percentage"? You just have no idea what a massive launch is, where, along with warheads, there will be many false targets, and I don’t even remember about our new maneuvering warheads.
              Quote: Rlptrt
              They are even afraid of one of Kim's missiles

              This is a real assessment of their ability to shoot down warheads.
              Quote: Rlptrt
              And they will receive it for free. As we have already received a lot.

              I do not share your pessimism - not everything is lost with us.
    2. max702
      max702 April 6 2021 12: 45
      +1
      Quote: Rlptrt
      Excellent article.
      The main conclusion: when they wanted, they did 34 boards in 6 years, when they didn't want to, they did 4 in 30 years.

      But in the shops there are 50 varieties of sausage and beer and there are no vouchers as well as queues for anything .. And the peaceful sky as it was and remains ... Maybe even then 4 boards in 30 years would have been enough?
      1. timokhin-aa
        April 6 2021 14: 54
        +3
        It is now peaceful because then there were 34 aircraft in 6 years. And so the Americans would have fried everyone here for a long time.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 April 6 2021 15: 22
          +2
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          It is now peaceful because then there were 34 aircraft in 6 years.

          That's right!
          The Soviet Army and the Soviet Navy provided
          we have the current peaceful sky over our heads.
          1. max702
            max702 April 6 2021 16: 47
            -2
            No working man provided all this and arms and food for the military ... So 4 would be enough, I repeat now the same 4, and the sky is peaceful .. But standing at the machine until 60 and plowing the same 60 on the collective farm is not in a military position up to 45, so I wanted toys and more places with military service ..
            1. Bez 310
              Bez 310 April 6 2021 16: 56
              +2
              Quote: max702
              it is not in a military position until 45

              Yes ... I've already heard it somewhere ...
              So they would not stand at the machine, and would not plow on the collective farm,
              but would have served only 25 years in the regions of the Far North,
              would fly on airplanes, take a ride on boats
              and submarines, that would have retired
              at 45, not at 60. I repeat - "Everyone chooses for himself ...".
              I will not persuade you, there is no need for this ...
              1. max702
                max702 April 6 2021 17: 34
                0
                And my parents and I worked at the Sredmash, providing the opportunity for some people to sail on the nuclear submarine and serve for 25 years at the same time and drank as if not more than yours, so it is not necessary too much ... I remember that life well ..
                1. Bez 310
                  Bez 310 April 6 2021 18: 34
                  -1
                  Quote: max702
                  And me and my parents worked at the sredmash

                  This is your choice...
                  1. Aag
                    Aag April 8 2021 20: 16
                    0
                    Quote: Bez 310
                    Quote: max702
                    And me and my parents worked at the sredmash

                    This is your choice...

                    Sorry, I butted into your dialogue, could not resist. I answered your opponent ... Because. I myself rarely look at the topics again, in the absence of answers, requests, - I think I must inform, - my comment is just above (below) ... hi
                2. Aag
                  Aag April 8 2021 20: 01
                  0
                  Quote: max702
                  And my parents and I worked at the Sredmash, providing the opportunity for some people to sail on the nuclear submarine and serve for 25 years at the same time and drank as if not more than yours, so it is not necessary too much ... I remember that life well ..

                  Hmm. Let me express your opinion ...
                  You "butt" with the wrong people ... You are measured by merit, endured adversity, and the result obtained ...
                  Dear Comrade Bez310, apparently, is already tired of dismissing such statements and reproaches of your kind, - he decided not to enter into polemics. I am also familiar with this. But, I consider it necessary, if you can't find a consensus, then at least understand each other .. Do you agree with this line of reasoning?
                  ... You write: "... providing an opportunity for someone to sail on a nuclear submarine and serve for 25 years ..." (?? !!).
                  True, from bewilderment I start to stutter. ... The very first thing that comes to mind: "you yourself, you would swim, you would be provided too! By the way," provided ", sometimes it is worth putting in quotes ...
                  Didn't you want to? "
                  Second, you write like this, as if to swim, fly, ride, pop, - a fun attraction ... (I think that some of those who want to populate would be eliminated already at the stage of dragging the bullets to the bullet site).
                  Or, as if you bought them this conditional submarine (or me this "Poplar") for entertainment! Yes! For the work of yours, my parents, and many others, all this military equipment (military equipment is designed, produced, operated) ...
                  I will note (!) That it is produced, that it is exploited, - with great exertion of forces. Sometimes with heroism. What is there (in civilian life), what is there (in the troops) ... (that someone's heroism is someone's- then carelessness, - for now, probably, it is worth leaving beyond the scope of controversy).
                  From a purely human point of view, IMHO, it does not really matter, - civilian, military, - there are hard workers, there are adapted. And there, and there ... In each, that labor, that military collective, they are usually known .. Yes, even if you walk down the street, at the level of the janitors, this, upon closer examination, will become noticeable. And it is not a fact that the more responsible will remain healthier or financially secure.
                  Absolute justice, not to achieve (IMHO)? Yes, it's worth striving! ...
                  Or, do you really think that your parents, pensioners, receive less money because of the fact that the military pens are fattening?)))!
                  I repeat, you are not looking there ...
                  Look at the TV, -each region, district, -representative for communication with the media, deputy. by ... colonel's, general's shoulder straps ...
                  What can I say the necessary, about the unnecessary do not blurt out (?) ... maybe something else ...
                  Of course, God is their judge (almost an atheist, -after communicating with some representatives of the CPC), - but after all, for our work (money) ...
                  So why my spitch?
                  Neither you, nor your parents, paid neither me nor my comrades-in-arms for a SWEET life. Provided, supplied with the necessary, -YES! -How it turned out, -a separate conversation ... Heroism and handshake were present on both sides (since you are so dividing the population We lived, rejoiced (not without tension) ... But no one encroached! ... So, it worked out !?
                  What do we have now?
                  A forgotten slogan, and not a slogan at all, but a meaning - "The people and the Army are one!"
                  Not pathos. Absolutely!
                  ... Crushed ... Crushed on any basis (belonging to one or another department, nationality, region, contrary to what is declared in the media ...).
                  Do you really think that your parents' pension has gone into the MO pension?
                  I, as a pensioner of the Moscow region, whose pension was initially cut by allowances, coefficients for employees, once; cancellation, postponement, monetization (with subsequent denomination) of part of the benefits, -two; frozen indexation, -three; -I don’t count that this was done to "please" civilian pensioners !!! Those who designed, built the country's economy, VT (military equipment), fed, clothed, and put on SA shoes.
                  ... Local TV often broadcasts a chronicle of the construction of the Irkutsk and Bratsk hydroelectric power plants ... Heroic everyday life of the 60s! Military construction, in a broad sense, more often, behind the scenes ...
                  What we now have, built by our ancestors, defended by us, has been given to the weasels! Moreover, due to greed, it has been profaned by the former "probable opponents" - now - "partners", sponsored by us under the slogan "to support domestic entrepreneurs" ... Next we have cut pensions, plus Western sanctions as a pretext for another belt-tightening ... (((.
                  Sorry, my vision of the situation ...
                  You can, of course, paint about hardships and hardships in paints ... It will look like an azkavoo near the sandbox))).
                  Hope for understanding. hi
                  1. max702
                    max702 April 8 2021 22: 26
                    +1
                    At my enterprise, uranium was smelted and fuel rods for reactors were rolled .. And believe me, this is a hell of a job not only directly for manufacturers but for the entire population of a town of 100 ... And they've seen enough of such specialists who have given their lives for their homeland .. An acquaintance of mine also served the calendars in the navy in the north. In the orchestra as a drummer on Kuznetsovo, I got all the benefits as it should be and money allowance for all these years, plus housing ... And excuse me, but it's not near the uranium furnace to stand not in acid to soak zirconium tubes .. just a little annoying arrogance and neglect of citizens in uniform to those who provide them with all this .. Here I see the same arrogance, see where he served, everything was in order for which it was stated that not everywhere it was, and it is precisely due to such places that he has everything there and was present, to which it was answered that it was like himself .. The country went out of her way with a margin and brute force doing everything so that it was and as it turns out without much need and a quarter of the effort would be enough, but here statements like a little more are needed like then! After all, with a small number of such places, the "right choice" will not affect everyone and you will have to get up at the machine, and this is not comme il faut for the high-born who chose the right one.
      2. Rlptrt
        Rlptrt April 7 2021 18: 44
        0
        Yes. 50 varieties. Not sausages, but shit disguised as sausages. What is it made of? You will never eat it again.
        Yes. Peaceful sky ... What kind of hen will cut the hen that lays his golden eggs? Do you know how much money is exported from Russia annually? No, not by bureaucratic thieves, but by the western owners of Russia. It is quite official and legal: dividends,! A quarter of the population of Russia lives at the poverty line, 10% use a booth with a hole in the floor, 5% do not have access to drinking water. Continue about a peaceful sky or you yourself realized that the war has long been lost. Economic. The director of the "property of Russia" - Rosneft - is the son of a fascist and the former chancellor of Germany, the German Schroeder. And so everywhere.
        And you, apparently, have enough crumbs from the master's table.
        1. max702
          max702 April 8 2021 13: 10
          0
          Compared to the "wonderful" times of the USSR, we now live in CHOCOLATE! No need to talk about shit in the form of sausage, today there is just plenty to choose from, if you want to eat shit for a penny, the "red price" of the top five, if you want normal for 300-400r \ kg, you can buy only without queues of coupons and fresh .. money is exported, it was not exported before (it was given to cannibals and bratsky peoples), but there was nothing to eat, nothing to wear, and there’s nothing to buy at least for that beggarly salary .. I was born and raised in the Urals and I saw enough of poverty .. But now I have meat on the table every day, and not as before 1 kg per worker per month (children in the forest), and there is simply nowhere to put the car in the yard, just like cabinets with clothes and shoes are not closed, not to mention household appliances and tools. Judging by the fairy tale about a hole in the floor, another horse with 404th writes to me, about 5% without access to drinking something new in the training manual, and yes above us there is a peaceful sky, but you need to think hard there in a horse so that the situation does not change. and indeed we don’t have to go to us! Live on your own! Everything suits me in my country!
  25. moreman78
    moreman78 April 6 2021 09: 14
    +1
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Sahalinets
    Already in the 70s the Urals lived in a terrible deficit.

    There were a terrible shortage - cervelat, sprats (I don't remember at all what was sold, unless sprat in tomato sauce is considered sprat laughing ), oranges / tangerines, which were brought only for the new year and there were queues for them across the entire store to the street, and green peas for Olivier. The latter was brought in 2 times a year, the queue stretched for a day, we went to stand in it as a family in turn :)))))))

    Therefore, the majority bought all canned food for good almost in boxes. I still remember cans of peas, condensed milk ... - under the bed (since in Khrushchev houses without a balcony there is not much storage room)!
  26. Konstantin Pekhlivanov
    Konstantin Pekhlivanov April 6 2021 22: 46
    0
    I never understood why the BS-64 was made on the basis of one of the most modern missile carriers? Why not based on 667BDR? Was the boat in trouble or what?
  27. K298rtm
    K298rtm April 7 2021 21: 26
    0
    1. Great article, thanks to the author.
    2. In the USSR, there were two successful series of plpl 667th and 671st projects, brought from the 2nd generation to 2 ++ (by analogy with airplanes). We are waiting for an article from the author about the history of the 671s.
    3. I will add a little - for the 667A the first BIUS "Tucha" and GAK MGK-100 were created - quite decent systems for their time.
    4. Regarding the grate of scuppers on the BDR: initially there was one row, but after the first ascent (k-424) there were such heels that they added 2 more rows.
    5. On the issue of "one-leggedness": at one time (in those epic times, so to speak) there was an opinion that walking under one shaft line complicates the classification of pl (all Soviet strategists were 2-shaft, and multipurpose - single-shaft).