Military Review

AK-12 project. First 10 years

137
AK-12 project. First 10 years

Ten years ago, in 2011, NPO Izhmash (now the Kalashnikov Concern) began developing a promising assault rifle, the future AK-12. During the development and testing stage, this sample faced various difficulties that had the most serious consequences. However, the AK-12 was nevertheless brought to the desired appearance, entered service and went into production.


The first sensation


The design of a new machine gun at Izhmash started on its own initiative in mid-2011 and was carried out under the leadership of V. Zlobin. In the AK-12 project, it was planned to use the experience of research work of recent years and a number of new solutions. The project was completed in a few months, and the first trials began at the end of the year.

In January 2012, the AK-12 assault rifle was first presented to the general public. In the same year, the product was included in the Izhmash exposition at several military-technical exhibitions. At the same time, the machine was offered to a number of domestic departments, which were considered as potential customers.


Automatic in the 2014 version.

In the same year, the AK-12 assault rifle together with the AK-103 were proposed for a competition to create weapons for combat equipment "Warrior". The army conducted comparative tests, during which Izhmash's developments competed with machine guns from the Kovrov Plant named after V.I. Degtyareva. Products A-545 and A-762 were recognized as winners and recommended for use in the "Ratnik". The development of the AK-12 had to continue without the support of the army.

In 2014, the newly formed Kalashnikov concern once again presented its assault rifles for testing. The result of the competition was the same - the AK-12 was not recommended for adoption. Moreover, as a result of these measures, the new management of the concern decided to abandon further work on the machine in its current form. It was proposed to develop a new design, devoid of the characteristic shortcomings of the existing one.

Second attempt


The Army-2016 forum hosted a premiere showing of a number of promising Kalashnikov designs, incl. AK-12 assault rifle of the second version. As reported, this project was created practically from scratch and without borrowing ready-made parts and assemblies. Due to this, it was possible to get rid of the problems that the weapons of previous models had, as well as to increase the manufacturability of production and improve the tactical, technical and operational characteristics.



AK-12 mod. 2016 with a silent firing device

In 2017, the next comparative tests began, for which the Kalashnikov concern submitted AK-12 assault rifles and an AK-15 product based on it, chambered for 7,62x39 mm. It was reported that the new version of the AK-12 showed itself well and has the greatest prospects. The concern was ready to start mass production as early as 2018 - immediately after receiving the order from the Ministry of Defense.

In January 2018, it became known that the AK-12 and AK-15 received a recommendation for adoption. Such weapons in the future were supposed to enter the ground and airborne forces, as well as the marines. Soon there were reports about the production and transfer of the first batches of new machines and about the start of the process of their development in the troops.

Development continues


Within the framework of the Army-2020 forum, the Kalashnikov concern presented several different types of weapons, incl. modernized AK-12 assault rifle of the second version. Taking into account the experience of operating weapons in the troops, some changes were made to the design that did not affect its basic principles. There are new and improved hardware elements and redesigned sighting devices.


Serial AK-12 in one of the units of the armed forces

The prospects for the AK-12 version of 2020 have already been determined. It was argued that such a weapon will go into production and replace the previous version of the machine. In addition, a new AK-12 assault rifle was created on the basis of the modernized AK-19. It uses a 5,56x45 mm NATO cartridge and is intended for export deliveries.

It can be assumed that in the foreseeable future, the AK-12 and AK-15 will again undergo modernization of one kind or another. In particular, it is possible to improve the design and production technologies, taking into account new operating experience. Like any other new samples, the two machines retain minor flaws that can only be identified with prolonged use.

Machine guns in the troops


On a regular basis, the Ministry of Defense announces the arrival of new batches of AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles in combat units. Each such batch includes up to several hundred items; some connections have already received thousands of units. Obtaining new samples makes it possible to abandon the existing AK-74 (M). At the same time, AK-15 products of a different caliber make it possible to change the general indicators of the unit.


First of all, the rearmament of units is being carried out, which are assigned increased responsibility. The assault rifles are received by reconnaissance and airborne assault units, special forces, etc. In the foreseeable future, the re-equipment of line units, which make up the bulk of the troops, will start.

The new machine is generally receiving positive reviews. Greater convenience is noted due to new ergonomic elements. The proposed design of the main parts and improved automation make it possible to obtain an increase in accuracy and accuracy. At the same time, from the point of view of development or maintenance, the AK-12 is minimally different from the weapons of previous models.

However, the machines have not yet got rid of "childhood diseases". Regularly, at different sites, reviews appear about certain flaws in the design or production technology, which have not yet been eliminated. There are problems with the coating of parts, with fittings, etc. Probably, all these problems can be eliminated as production continues.


Obviously, the mass production of the AK-12 and the supply of such weapons to the troops will continue over the next years. The number and share of these machines in the armed forces will gradually increase. It is possible to introduce certain modifications aimed at correcting shortcomings and improving the design. Also, one cannot exclude the possibility of the appearance of new modifications and promising models based on the machine gun.

Results of the decade


This year marks 10 years since the start of work on the first version of the AK-12, and it was quite an interesting decade. In the shortest possible time, Izhmash was able to create a promising and interesting model with a number of important innovations, but it turned out to be unsuccessful and did not receive development. The second attempt to create a promising weapon was crowned with success - and launched rearmament.


Civilian carbine TR3 based on AK-12

Despite the lingering problems and shortcomings, the AK-12 arr. On the whole, 2016 can be considered successful. The assigned engineering and technical tasks have been successfully solved, and the armed forces have already received thousands or even tens of thousands of new weapons. In addition, on the basis of the AK-12, machine guns were created for other cartridges, incl. for the international market and a civilian carbine.

The AK-12 product was initially positioned as "the fifth generation of Kalashnikov assault rifles." It was assumed that it will continue the legendary domestic line and provide the Russian army with modern weapons for the coming decades. The process of solving such problems turned out to be rather complicated and excessively long, but still led to the desired results. The army received new and more effective weapons.
Author:
Photos used:
Concern "Kalashnikov", Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
137 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Holuay T.O
    Holuay T.O April 5 2021 05: 16
    +24
    They frankly smuggled into the Moscow region, because the Kovrov AEK won the competition
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 April 5 2021 05: 25
      +11
      AEK is in service with special units, AK 12 for the rest.
      1. Holuay T.O
        Holuay T.O April 5 2021 05: 27
        +7
        AEK won the competition, they should arm everyone, but then Rogozin pushed the AK
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather April 5 2021 05: 37
          .
          Quote: Holuay T.O.
          Rogozin pushed AK

          "cosmonaut" Rogozin? belay
          1. Holuay T.O
            Holuay T.O April 5 2021 08: 40
            +2
            This is it, but then the whole defense industry was under him
            Study the background before asking smart questions.
          2. bayard
            bayard April 6 2021 00: 27
            +4
            Quote: Dead Day
            "cosmonaut" Rogozin?

            He not only smuggled the AK-12, but also filed a patent in his own name.
            He is also a designer ...
            And his immensely talented son has as many as 6 patents in chemistry ... he is also a chemist ... not only an outstanding aircraft manufacturer ...
        2. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev April 5 2021 09: 18
          +8
          He won the competition, but there is such a thing as price / quality. For mass production, the price decides a lot, especially if the machines are close in quality parameters. Two submachine guns are taken: one for mass, the other for specialists, this is normal.
          1. Holuay T.O
            Holuay T.O April 5 2021 09: 28
            +1
            AEK extinguished frankly
            AEK frankly won the competition, the Ministry of Defense chose him, and also a sniper rifle and a light machine gun from Kovrov, the Ministry of Defense had money, moreover, all tests were carried out in Kovrov at the expense of the Ministry of Defense
            Cost is a weak argument, especially when the Ministry of Defense abandoned AK altogether
            Everything changed when Rogozin came
            AEK does not receive any special forces, they have already received AK
            1. Viktor Sergeev
              Viktor Sergeev April 5 2021 10: 43
              +2
              The AEK entered service, for example, in the units of the Ministry of Justice, it was also tested in the troops, but ... the machine gun is complicated and expensive, and the superiority over the AK is insignificant to pay more. When you need to purchase several tens of millions of barrels, price matters.
              1. Holuay T.O
                Holuay T.O April 5 2021 10: 54
                +3
                Here we have already written about the quality below
                Buy a three-line even cheaper and easier
                1. Viktor Sergeev
                  Viktor Sergeev April 8 2021 19: 32
                  -2
                  A three-line is just a thing, but with a sniper scope, and in the hands of a trained soldier, in general, a bomb, not a single armor can withstand.
                  You shouldn't make mistakes, one of the most important parameters of mass weapons: price.
                  1. Holuay T.O
                    Holuay T.O April 8 2021 20: 13
                    +1
                    Atkat price
                  2. Droid
                    Droid April 9 2021 07: 22
                    0
                    You better read the passport for the reservation.
                  3. Alexfly
                    Alexfly 17 August 2021 16: 30
                    0
                    And how are you going to aim with this paddle under continuous enemy fire? Ali bullet stupid, bayonet well done?
              2. Illanatol
                Illanatol April 5 2021 13: 51
                0
                Where can we buy "tens of millions" ... we don't have so many soldiers with all the mobilizations. Questions to AEK in terms of reliability and service life. Taking into account the increased rate of fire.
                1. Viktor Sergeev
                  Viktor Sergeev April 9 2021 09: 39
                  +1
                  Ten million is not enough, it is desirable to have a hundred million. Weapons tend to break, get lost. By the way, up to 30% of the population can be conscripted, and this is up to 40 million people.
            2. Mister X
              Mister X April 5 2021 23: 09
              0
              Quote: Holuay T.O.
              AEK does not receive any special forces, they have already received AK

              "Army - 2020". Outcomes
              16.09.2020
              Press service of JSC "Plant named after V.A. Degtyarev "
              As a result, all the developments that reached the final of the competition were highly appreciated by the military and adopted into service: a new version of the AK-12 Kalashnikov assault rifle as the main small arms, and our 6P67 and 6P68 assault rifles as providing higher combat effectiveness to support reconnaissance units and parts for special purposes.

              http://www.zid.ru/press-tsentr/novosti/2020/sentyabr-2020/armiya-2020-itogi/?sphrase_id=81093

            3. nobody75
              nobody75 13 June 2021 10: 39
              0
              Why is "Clock with a Cuckoo" better than AK ??? Do you seriously think that with the help of the "cuckoo" the laws of internal ballistics can be canceled?
              Sincerely
          2. Revival
            Revival April 5 2021 10: 16
            +1
            Whatever the price, even the lowest, but without quality is unacceptable
            1. Viktor Sergeev
              Viktor Sergeev April 5 2021 10: 37
              0
              And who said that the quality of AK is low? Maybe a little lower accuracy, that's actually the whole drawback. to reveal the advantages of accuracy, a high-class soldier is needed; for infantry, especially from conscripts, this parameter does not play a special role.
              1. Revival
                Revival April 5 2021 10: 46
                +1
                User reviews and high quality photos
                1. Viktor Sergeev
                  Viktor Sergeev April 5 2021 10: 48
                  +1
                  Any new weapon needs to be refined. So, AK47 turned into AKM, T34 into T34-85, etc. In general, AEK has been doing and improving for 20 years. You can find heaps of reviews of "experts" about the poor quality of AKM.
                  1. Revival
                    Revival April 5 2021 10: 53
                    -2
                    So 7 years only contests, until they competed
                  2. nedgen
                    nedgen 23 May 2021 16: 32
                    0
                    I wonder why the AK-108 with balanced automatics was hacked to death in due time?
              2. paul3390
                paul3390 April 5 2021 11: 20
                +3
                The main drawback of the AK is the frankly shitty gross cartridges. Take decent Western ones and you will be amazed at the result .. Checked. Kalashnikov - created a masterpiece, a kind of ultimate weapon ..

                So - the quality of army cartridges should be pulled out, and not dealt with perversions in order to drink the dough. And to hang the AK with different buns is not a big problem, only the lazy one does not rivet them. Just in bulk for every taste. For example, my AKMoid .. What's worse? And nothing needs to be invented - everything has been done long ago.


                1. Narak-zempo
                  Narak-zempo April 5 2021 22: 35
                  -8
                  Quote: paul3390
                  So - the quality of army cartridges must be pulled

                  Expensive.
                  And in general, admiring Western patrons is Russophobia.
                  Look, in the First World War they admired that in .303 the British, who went to the Lewis, the gunpowder burns more stable and the bullets do not fall out, and lost Russia.
                  1. paul3390
                    paul3390 April 5 2021 22: 45
                    +13
                    Rare stupidity .. Che - to plant the same bullets and hang a standard sample of gunpowder - is this a type of Russophobia? To love the Motherland means to release shit for its army ?? I haven't read such stupidity for a long time ..
                    1. Narak-zempo
                      Narak-zempo April 5 2021 22: 59
                      -5
                      Quote: paul3390
                      What - to plant the same bullets and hang a standard sample of gunpowder - is this a type of Russophobia?

                      It is not on purpose that they plant and weigh them crookedly.
                      The lines in the factories are loose, and the gunpowder is not of the best quality, because the situation is the same in its production.
                      And the equipment can be updated only at the expense of pensions, which will not fail to take advantage of a variety of boat rockers. Yes, and sanctions - still try to buy it.
                      1. Svateev
                        Svateev April 6 2021 10: 51
                        +5
                        Quote: Narak-zempo
                        And the equipment can be updated only at the expense of pensions,

                        Look how ... And to tax surplus profits, as in the same Europe, what religion does not allow?
                        Quote: Narak-zempo
                        Yes, and sanctions - still try to buy it.

                        And "to develop by yourself" is missing in your vocabulary as a concept?
                      2. Narak-zempo
                        Narak-zempo April 6 2021 13: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: Svateev
                        Look how ... And to tax surplus profits, as in the same Europe, what religion does not allow?

                        So are the braces.
                        Quote: Svateev
                        And "to develop by yourself" is missing in your vocabulary as a concept?

                        And where to get these same developers?
                  2. Azimuth
                    Azimuth 28 May 2021 17: 24
                    0
                    And this is the main argument with which they gagged us, as they would now be called "couch warriors".
                    And the AK-12 did not even reach the Jewish - Finnish modifications of our AK, a genius for its time, but not now and not even yesterday.
                    I was killed by the lack of a slide stop, always 4-6 rounds, that is, one more short burst was dropped with the store, it was half the trouble when a fighter - a couple of stores equipped with a pair, and as one, then count 8 x for 4-6 = one store presented to Izhmash , although he carried it to the detriment of water - food.
              3. Viktor Sergeev
                Viktor Sergeev April 9 2021 09: 41
                0
                Excuse me, why don't you like AK cartridges? Do you compare mass cartridges with special Western ones, or do you really believe, about the miracle of cartridges for example for the M16?
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 April 9 2021 09: 46
                  +2
                  I forgive. The fact that he personally was somehow not too lazy and outweighed three packs. And also - measured the landing of the bullet. The result is, to put it mildly, deplorable. With such a spread, it is simply pointless to talk about a heap.

                  Well, if, according to you, the same fit and weight in cartridges is a miracle - then yes, I believe in Western miracle cartridges ..
                  1. gross kaput
                    gross kaput April 23 2021 20: 06
                    0
                    Damn what kind of nonsense do they periodically write on the Internet? You hung Shaw there and what fit did my HZ measure. Especially having the 308th saiga in use, a well-known problem of domestic hunters is that our cartridges are bullshit, here Lapua or fat-white fly, from how to make cartridges, only the sales in the head of such grief do not come to such specialists to compare the cost of the cartridge, and certainly not to anyone of them, it does not occur to compare with exactly the same NATO Surplas, and not with kosher commerce. The same applies to crying about weapons - they have quality and we have ... But as soon as you compare a non-commercial arch for $ 1500. and the usual army M4 with the usual NATO M855A1 and our AK74M with the 7N10 a miracle happens - and the descent at the stock military arch is oak and the accuracy is exactly the same as that of the 74M.
                    And it’s quite a mosch for such people is blown up by the simple fact that before the sanctions, BPZ, UPZ, APZ and oil refineries were selling rolls to the states by steamers and local shooters were incredibly happy, so among the army surprise our 7,62X39 and 5,45X39 in terms of price-quality Yugovskie wings , Bulgarian and Chinese patrons as a tortoise god.

                    It's simpler - there are military requirements for the acceptance of cartridges, these requirements are fulfilled by factories, and it does not matter that a particular Uncle Vasya wants a cartridge of the Paw level but at the price of Barnaul.
            2. Alexfly
              Alexfly 17 August 2021 16: 33
              0
              In the USA, for example, almost all recruits have sufficient experience in handling weapons, we have only a few, and even then superficially ...
        3. English tarantas
          English tarantas April 8 2021 10: 54
          0
          Here recently it was considered how much the Americans would need to re-equip with a new weapon-cartridge complex, it turned out like a pair of nuclear submarines at a price, who has no money there? In 10 years they would have already re-equipped, especially since the cartridges do not need to be changed. In fact, no machine gun, no cartridges.
      2. Twodi
        Twodi April 5 2021 13: 26
        +1
        AEK is more demanding on operating conditions, so it was sent to specialists. And the troops are ordinary Kalash. In my opinion, it is a fairly competent decision.
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker April 5 2021 06: 35
      +18
      Pessimist22 The fact that AEK will join the special forces was only declared in order to avoid a scandal with the open push of a mediocre AK-12.
      In reality, it is like this:
      The special purpose regiment of the Southern Military District, which was located in the Stavropol Territory, has already received 300 new AK-12 assault rifles of the latest generation.

      The first batch of AK-12 Kalashnikov assault rifles entered service with the special-purpose brigade stationed in the Tambov region.

      As previously reported by the Ministry of Defense, lots of new AK-12 assault rifles received, in particular, special forces brigades in Togliatti and in the Krasnodar Territory.

      I was not able to find official data on the admission of AEK to specific units at all.
      1. Droid
        Droid April 6 2021 09: 35
        -2
        The scandal with the frank pushing of AEK, which it lost back in 1986, was hushed up.
    3. Revival
      Revival April 5 2021 10: 12
      0
      Which ones, for example?
      Didn't you write anything about it, or the most, most secret?
      It seems that no ..
  2. Old tanker
    Old tanker April 5 2021 06: 22
    +14
    Exactly. This is not the first time that Kovrovtsev has been crushed by the Kalashnikov lobby. And the operators in the military do not particularly praise the AK-12. In March of this year, I managed to get to know this model closely. There are many complaints about the fragility of parts and the unreliability of fittings. Even funny cases were told.
    It is noteworthy that the Russian Guard has abandoned the AK-12 and continues to operate the AK-74 series.
    1. Anzhey V.
      Anzhey V. April 5 2021 06: 59
      +25






      Here are photos from the direct operator (contractor).

      There are many complaints about the poor quality of plastic, rusting steel, the butt for some reason only half folding, and so on.

      To the quality of Soviet AK, they are like the moon ...

      There, a friend wrote below about the fact that AEK's purchase price is at least 15 thousand higher than the AK-12 - that, apparently, in the photographs the difference in this very price is visible.
      1. Old tanker
        Old tanker April 5 2021 07: 02
        +18
        Yes, this is exactly what the guys from 104 dshp complained to me. During the preparation for the parade, 12 submachine guns were smashed from the box.
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 08: 36
        +16
        Stunned! Are these machines being supplied to the Armed Forces today? !! After 100500 tenders and so many years of "trial" operation?
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar April 5 2021 08: 55
          +10
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          After 100500 tenders and so many years of "trial" operation?

          So there was no intelligible competition. It's just that Izhevsk residents made a conditionally new machine, which "Nteen percent better than Kalash" and began to push it to the military. The competition in the usual sense, when the military formulate the desired TTT, and the contestants try to keep within them, was not actually held. Hence the result: we got an assault rifle, which seems to be better, but, if you look at it, not enough to throw everything and rearm at it. Plus, the traditional problems with the quality of Izhevsk products - civilian buyers will confirm this.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 5 2021 09: 02
            +1
            I'm just very far from the automaton ... but I didn't think it was all that "fun".
            1. Anzhey V.
              Anzhey V. April 5 2021 10: 05
              +10
              Honestly, this raises reasonable questions about the quality of acceptance of high-tech weapons.
            2. Revival
              Revival April 5 2021 10: 19
              +5
              And "fun" tends not to be alone, this is usually a group phenomenon, it's just easier to understand something about something, more clearly, but somewhere only when everything is already
          2. Droid
            Droid April 6 2021 09: 37
            -3
            Well yes. The competition was started solely with one goal - to shove AEK. Even the requirements for the machine, specifically the presence of balanced automation, were written off from AEK. But something went wrong.
      3. Alexfly
        Alexfly April 5 2021 11: 50
        +2
        I didn't understand why they are, they are casting the adapter, not milling it? This is a weapon for war, not shooting in a shooting range ???? !!!!! Actually AK-12 sucks, even Galil is better ...
      4. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo April 6 2021 16: 01
        -5
        Quote: Anjay V.
        Here are photos from the direct operator (contractor).

        If you open a beer on the scope, then yes, an unreliable weapon.
        Quote: Anjay V.
        rusting steel

        You need to clean it.
        Quote: Anjay V.
        butt for some reason only half foldable

        This is so that if the enemy attacks by surprise from around the corner, hit him with the butt, without wasting time on unfolding.
        1. English tarantas
          English tarantas April 8 2021 11: 06
          +2
          If you open the beer on the sight

          How many years have I been opening beer with my teeth - I haven't broken it even once, although I don't clean it every day, I don't go to the dentist (no money), my teeth are stronger than an automatic machine?
          You need to clean

          So if it is necessary to clean, then why is there a stainless steel at all? I have a plumbing at home, which has not rusty for many years, has never dried.
  3. SKVichyakow
    SKVichyakow April 5 2021 10: 35
    +2
    I completely agree. He was pulled like a donkey by the ears, since, well, he did not go to the Moscow region in any way. The article looks like another order.
  4. Droid
    Droid April 6 2021 09: 32
    -5
    Everything is exactly the opposite. AEK was frankly dragged in, even the competition was muddied. But it didn't work out.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev April 6 2021 10: 59
      0
      Quote: Droid
      AEK was frankly dragged in, even the competition was muddied.

      We wanted to show the advantages of balanced automation. They are, they are real - the accuracy of the burst is much better.
      Another question is that the specific version - the balancer assembly in the AEK - heats up during intense shooting. But it hits much more often.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar April 6 2021 11: 34
        -1
        Quote: Svateev
        We wanted to show the advantages of balanced automation. They are, they are real - the accuracy of the burst is much better.

        As usual, everything is with nuances. There is an increase in accuracy when firing bursts from unstable positions. The growth is not to say very large - about 20%. In this case, the design becomes much more complicated. In general, as I understand it, neither the AEK nor the AK-12 showed any large-scale advantages over the existing AK-74M. In this context, the AK-12 looks somewhat preferable: compatibility with the AK-74 allows faster production and operation. True, it will probably be even easier to attach some tuning to the existing 74s (this topic is also being worked out).
        1. Svateev
          Svateev April 6 2021 11: 42
          +2
          Quote: Kalmar
          Growth is not to say very large - about 20%

          Such growth is significant for the current state of the shooters. If the reliability was at the AK level. But the synchronization of the balancer through the gearwheel with such - shock - nature of the loads ...
          Quote: Droid
          Balanced automation can give a rather significant advantage only at ultra-high rates of fire - 4000-6000 rpm

          Justify such numbers!
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar April 6 2021 11: 56
            -1
            Quote: Svateev
            For the current state of the shooter, such an increase is significant.

            Perhaps, but this is a result achieved under certain conditions. The rest of the significant benefits are not shown. The final growth, let's say, the total combat effectiveness is also not very large. For the sake of this, it is somehow irrational to start large-scale rearmament and retraining.
            1. Svateev
              Svateev April 6 2021 12: 16
              +2
              Quote: Kalmar
              total combat effectiveness

              Oh, for me this "total efficiency"! If you smear 20% "in total" in terms of the effectiveness of the fire of all weapons of the squad, and even worse - of the platoon, then you get one and a half percent. Indeed, why bother ?! Spending billions on tuning AK74 (for AK-12) is "effective", right?
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 6 2021 13: 18
                0
                Quote: Svateev
                Indeed, why bother ?!

                The question you always need to ask yourself)

                Let's say, we rearmed a squad with a new machine gun, which, under certain conditions, gives an increase in accuracy of 20 percent. And in a real battle, the effectiveness of this squad turned out to be plus or minus the same, because these very certain conditions in life do not develop so often, and the accuracy is far away not the only factor affecting the probability of hitting.

                And you can, for example, put on existing machines, say, a good sight (with the help of the aforementioned tuning, for example), and the effectiveness of fire will suddenly increase much more noticeably, and in a variety of situations. Simply because it is faster and more accurate to aim with optics than with mechanics.

                Such things, in theory, should be evaluated in the course of various kinds of competitions and tests. Compare different options (a new machine, another new machine, an old machine with modifications, without modifications, etc.) in a variety of scenarios and calculate some integral indicators. And already according to these indicators, decide which of the options is ultimately preferable.
            2. yehat2
              yehat2 April 6 2021 13: 50
              0
              why start a large-scale rearmament?
              AEK is not particularly different from the Kalash. Just start replenishing the disposal of worn-out barrels and re-equipping on demand. And it does not require much retraining.
              However, now an assault rifle is also required for more or less accurate work up to 350-400m.
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 6 2021 13: 56
                +1
                Quote: yehat2
                AEK is not particularly different from Kalash

                Well, almost all parts: the return mechanism, trigger mechanism, bolt group, etc. Maintenance and repair, respectively, will have their own nuances.

                Quote: yehat2
                Just start replenishing the disposal of worn-out barrels and re-equipping on demand

                It is possible, the question, as I already wrote above, is expediency: is it worth breeding confusion and winding up the nerves of suppliers, if the real advantage turns out to be at the level of "well, it seems a bit better"? Appropriate tests are needed.
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 April 6 2021 13: 58
                  +1
                  Are you going to use the AK until they change it to blasters?
                  after all, modernization does not go in leaps and bounds - step by step.
                  1. Kalmar
                    Kalmar April 6 2021 14: 07
                    0
                    Quote: yehat2
                    Are you going to use the AK until they change it to blasters?

                    I personally do not intend to, I'm not MO. Replacing one machine gun with a completely different one (albeit gradual) is a rather costly thing when reaching a serious scale. Accordingly, she must be acquitted.

                    Quote: yehat2
                    after all, modernization does not go in leaps and bounds - step by step.

                    This approach is more consistent with the AK-12, even if the "twelfth" itself was not very successful. The design is tried and tested, proven over decades of operation and, at the same time, has some potential for modernization. Even balanced automation (if you really want to) can be attached.

                    The Americans, for example, are going roughly the same way: all their new and "new" infantry rifles are derivatives of the good old AR-15. Alternative designs are sometimes invented, but they cannot yet show significant advantages over the "arch".
                    1. yehat2
                      yehat2 April 6 2021 14: 19
                      0
                      yes, no special advantages are needed, it is enough to tighten the performance characteristics to the level of nk416 and other modern rifles, which the ak-12 does NOT correspond to.
                      and you need to start with the quality of manufacture of the cartridge.
                    2. Kalmar
                      Kalmar April 6 2021 14: 26
                      -1
                      Quote: yehat2
                      yes, no special advantages are needed, it is enough to tighten the performance characteristics to the level of nk416 and other modern rifles

                      For this, the transition to another design (AEK) is not needed. We need to fight for quality improvement and stricter technical control in production: both weapons and cartridges (here you are right).
                    3. Droid
                      Droid April 6 2021 16: 28
                      -2
                      How did you decide that it doesn't match? Here is the same AK74 in terms of firing efficiency surpasses the M16 due to the better accuracy of fire in bursts.
        2. yehat2
          yehat2 April 6 2021 13: 53
          0
          As far as I understand, in the queue of more than 2 bullets, the difference in the spread will already be felt.
        3. Droid
          Droid April 6 2021 16: 24
          -1
          For the current state of the shooter, such an increase is significant.


          Inessential. It has long been established by experience that rearmament with a really new model is justified if it exceeds the standard one by at least 1,5 times. AEK did not pull more than 1,2 times.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 27 May 2021 21: 04
            0
            Quote: Droid
            rearmament with a really new model is justified if it exceeds the standard one by at least 1,5 times. AEK did not pull more than 1,2 times.

            Therefore, it is necessary to spend money on the AK-12, which is NOT even 74 times superior to the AK1,2 ?!
            Droid, your logic is always about a "spherical horse in a vacuum"!
            1. Droid
              Droid 28 May 2021 20: 39
              0
              Yes. Back in 11, I wrote - either the AN-94 or to cut the AK. The balanced automatics did not resist either there or there.
      2. Droid
        Droid April 6 2021 16: 20
        0
        Accuracy is 2-3 times better. 20% more is efficiency and this is the maximum difference, and on average, somewhere around 10% -15%.
      3. English tarantas
        English tarantas April 8 2021 11: 13
        0
        True, it will probably be even easier to attach some tuning to the existing 74es.

        So before the announcement of the competition, Mo had to look at what was in the development, estimate how much better it would be to get a weapon and how much it would cost, otherwise it would be a waste of funds and life imprisonment until the moratorium was lifted. And so it happened (if 20% accuracy is not enough for you, which is not so) there is a set of attachments for the AK-74M, the body kit is called, such as it was adopted for service, from it and the AK-74 is made of the AK-12 type.
        1. Droid
          Droid April 9 2021 07: 25
          0
          20% is not accuracy, but efficiency. And this is really little and is not worth re-equipping with a completely different model.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 27 May 2021 21: 05
            0
            Quote: Droid
            little and not worth re-equipping with a completely different model.

            Yeah ... We need to re-equip with the old model ... Uh-huh ...
            1. Droid
              Droid 28 May 2021 20: 37
              0
              Yeah. As from M16A2 to M4. This is a gradual transition to almost the same machine.
    2. Droid
      Droid April 6 2021 11: 35
      -1
      The advantages, or rather their insignificance, were shown back in the distant 80s. And nothing has actually changed since then. Balanced automatics can give a rather significant advantage only at ultra-high rates of fire - 4000-6000 rpm, and for it, a rate of even 2000 rpm is death.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev April 6 2021 11: 43
        0
        Quote: Droid
        Balanced automation can give a rather significant advantage only at ultra-high rates of fire - 4000-6000 rpm

        Justify such numbers!
        1. Droid
          Droid April 6 2021 13: 24
          0
          Have you read Dvoryaninov? In volume 4, he has a small chapter dedicated to the Abakan competition, as it contains 99% of the currently known information on the competition. Including this ...
          1. Passing
            Passing April 9 2021 14: 23
            0
            Quote: Droid
            Balanced automation can give a rather significant advantage only at ultra-high rates of fire - 4000-6000 rpm

            Quote: Droid
            Including this ...

            Either I don’t understand something, or it’s some kind of distortion taken out of context. Any weapon without a displaced recoil momentum increases its accuracy of the first 2-3 bullets with an increase in the rate of fire. It doesn't matter whether it's balanced or traditional. Balanced automation under a low-impulse cartridge, at a rate of fire + -900, there is a fixed advantage in the frequency of hits over the traditional one, and it is equal to + - 20%. And with the same increase in the rate of fire of each of the schemes, the difference between them will only decrease!
          2. Svateev
            Svateev 27 May 2021 21: 11
            0
            Quote: Droid
            Have you read Dvoryaninov?

            Moreover, one of the reference books. Even two - 3rd and 4th.
            But I can read:
            "Based settlement dependencies ... "
            But Dvoryaninov's instructions that these calculations were verified by experiment - firing a weapon with such a rate of fire - I did not find. If there are such instructions, please report the page.
            1. Droid
              Droid 28 May 2021 20: 35
              0
              Means badly read. There, the practice is described, for example, a fire monitor and a double-barreled gun confirmed the calculation, and the balanced automation was already dying at 2000 rpm. And the same AEK, with its 1150 rpm, showed practically the worst accuracy of the experimental machines, after which it dropped out of the competition.
      2. Svateev
        Svateev April 6 2021 12: 18
        0
        Quote: Droid
        The advantages, or rather their insignificance, were shown back in the distant 80s.

        And therefore it is necessary to purchase a non-advantageous AK-12 ?!
        1. Droid
          Droid April 6 2021 13: 19
          0
          It was necessary to purchase and implement the AN-94 normally, and then, based on the results of operation, roll out a number of modernization requirements to the designer. And if you don't want the AN-94, then here's the AK-12, the further development of the AK. And AEK is not needed in any form.
          1. Yuri Starodub
            Yuri Starodub April 9 2021 14: 16
            0
            Nikonov died ...
    3. English tarantas
      English tarantas April 8 2021 11: 09
      0
      balancer unit in AEK - heats up during intense shooting

      If they'd give the money, they'd finish it, it's easy there, play with the material, lubricant, make a ribbed surface on the outside or a stupid pad and thicker so as not to burn yourself.
      1. Droid
        Droid April 9 2021 07: 26
        0
        There is nothing to finish there. There is little sense in balanced automation, which was proven back in the 80s.
        1. English tarantas
          English tarantas April 9 2021 10: 24
          0
          Above is your comment about the fact that it was necessary to take an94, but how does it work? I suppose a balancer? And even more difficult ...
          1. Droid
            Droid April 9 2021 10: 56
            +1
            There is no balancer, the AN-94 has a carriage scheme. And the AN-94 was still able to give an efficiency advantage of 1,5-2 times over the AK74, in contrast to the AEK, which did not rise above 1,2 times.
            1. English tarantas
              English tarantas April 9 2021 15: 08
              0
              And exactly. How was efficiency improvement considered appropriate? Cardinally complicating the design in order to be able to make two instead of a single shot? It turns out that ammunition is overspending, no one will use it in reality, one hit is enough for a person. On the other hand, the usm has already gone straight, and the vaunted gun carriage did not give anything, except for high requirements for tolerances, low resistance of the weapon to malfunctions, to pollution.
        2. Passing
          Passing April 9 2021 14: 31
          0
          Quote: Droid
          Balanced automation is of little use

          If we consider from the point of view of the extrapolation wishful thinking of the military, then yes, 20%, this is not enough, but if it falls from heaven to earth, and understand that the plateau of perfection of traditional schemes of cartridges and automation has already been achieved, and competitors-conservatives have nothing better to be stupid, then 20% is a giant leap and a colossal advantage.
          1. English tarantas
            English tarantas April 9 2021 14: 59
            0
            Controversial. The fact is that the transition to other cartridges can give those opportunities that cannot be squeezed out of the available ones, depending on how they thought the increase in efficiency. The same rate of shooting from unstable positions, why the ability to shoot normally in safe or difficult positions is not a decisive advantage is unclear. Moreover, in the 21st century, it is not so much what you shoot with as what you aim at, and in this case, the effectiveness of the weapon is multiplied by the sight. If the a-545 makes it possible to shoot with less recoil and displacement of the weapon from the sighting line, then when firing from the same collimator, a mass recruit will already show a significant difference than when firing from an open one.
            1. Passing
              Passing April 9 2021 16: 40
              0
              Quote: English Tarantas
              why being able to fire normally in safe or difficult positions is not a decisive advantage is unclear.

              As I understand it, the modern paradigm of combat is dynamism, no months-long trench firefights, so the emphasis on advantage in shooting from unstable positions is the main trend.
              Quote: English tarantass
              when firing from the same collimator, a mass conscript will already show a significant difference

              I completely agree with you, the transition to collimators, and especially to future computerized sights, will give many times greater gain for a low-skilled shooter, when firing single, than the transition to progressive automatic schemes and shooting with a cut-off. But, it will cost the same times and orders more expensive than switching to a new machine.
              1. English tarantas
                English tarantas April 9 2021 20: 13
                0
                But, it will cost the same times and orders more expensive than switching to a new machine.

                Let's take a look. But I think the whole body kit will cost about the same as the machine itself is now - 30-40 thousand at current prices, and in the future the machines themselves will certainly become "cheap".
            2. Svateev
              Svateev 27 May 2021 21: 26
              0
              Quote: English tarantass
              The same rate of shooting from unstable positions, why the ability to shoot normally in safe or difficult positions is not a decisive advantage is unclear.

              You're right. Pink dreams of getting from a standing position, or better - generally on the move, just as effectively as from a prone position with an emphasis, obscured the brain of the great military leaders. The fact that a person cannot and never can do this does not bother them. They ordered, they included in the course of firing ...
              Now, in "tactical shooting" they shoot from a standing position on a swing set swinging on chains. Apparently, we watched a film about how our famous admiral taught to shoot from cannons from a swing, and "adopted a clever method." True, the cannon with the ship is really almost always rolling. And where does the shooter of the Ground Forces find such pitching ?!
              Instead of being taught what is necessary in battle - to occupy a position as low as possible and with emphasis in order to hit the enemy as often as possible, and to be sheltered from return fire - they are taught to take the "third ballet position"!
  • Maz
    Maz 25 May 2021 08: 27
    0
    Quote: Holuay T.O.
    They frankly smuggled into the Moscow region, because the Kovrov AEK won the competition

    BB here Do not tell fairy tales. On tests, AEK, as expected, lost to ak, since due to a more complex design, it was able to fire only half of the shots for trouble-free shooting, of those that ak. By simple, after 10000 shots, there were delays in firing, which is unacceptable in battle
  • Siberian54
    Siberian54 April 5 2021 05: 33
    0
    I wonder how it costs next to AKM and AEK? In addition, it is not necessary to retrain the storekeepers for it.
    1. Sentinel-vs
      Sentinel-vs April 5 2021 06: 20
      +4
      In 2016, they wrote the following: A month ago, military state tests of assault rifles were completed as part of the military equipment "Warrior". The price of the AEK from the pilot batch was 50 thousand rubles, while the AK-12 was estimated at 35-40 thousand rubles. Possible "large-scale" price of AK-12 today is estimated in the range of 10-15 thousand rubles.
      1. Siberian54
        Siberian54 April 5 2021 07: 22
        0
        Sentinel-vs / This is probably the answer, the price-quality and traditionality of weapons is the ability to sell different "beards" without instructors ..
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 April 6 2021 13: 56
        +3
        this is all speculation with the cost.
        AEK is essentially distinguished by the presence of several additional parts, only one of which has at least some significant cost.
        Because of this, the price cannot rise by 15-30k.
        the prime cost of ak-12 is lower primarily because some of the parts are already being produced on the conveyor.
  • Sergey_G_M
    Sergey_G_M April 5 2021 05: 34
    +10
    On the third time I won the competition. Why were there only three contests - we want more! )) In general, the actions of our MO are not clear, why there are so many contests and why they stopped.
    And so the machine gun is very average, it will replace the completely worn-out AK-74 in small batches, it will definitely not be as massive as the AK-47 and AK-74.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen April 5 2021 08: 07
      +12
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      On the third time I won the competition.

      Once again I am convinced that comments to articles are much more informative and more interesting than an article. Journalists should crawl out of their offices or sofas and emphasize their emotional and colorless feelings with some specific data. After all, it was possible to communicate with users so that the photos of the commentators were in the article. It would be possible to communicate with someone from the KK and MO in order to add at least some specifics to the article. In fact, one heading could be left as a topic for discussion, the rest could be left to the readers. Although they are not journalists and write for free, they are more interesting and more specific. If you read this, you feel ashamed of Russian journalism.
      1. English tarantas
        English tarantas April 8 2021 11: 21
        +3
        The editorial board on VO has died, basically there are articles like from Roman, accumulated from the first lines of Google search, changed paragraphs in old articles, or copied the news from the RIA website, here's an article for you, the main thing is that they poke at the picture and money for advertising goes.
    2. Revival
      Revival April 5 2021 10: 20
      +2
      Well, why the actions of the MO are not clear, but if you think about it))
  • da Vinci
    da Vinci April 5 2021 08: 18
    0
    Particularly pleasing "We can assume that in the foreseeable future AK-12 and AK-15 will again undergo modernization of one kind or another." So there is still money in the budget and there is a place for defective managers to roam!
    1. da Vinci
      da Vinci April 5 2021 08: 21
      +3
      Yet. Usually, modernization (and this is not even modernization, but tuning (except for the type of sight) makes an improved version of an ordinary product. In this case, exactly the opposite.
  • Ingenegr
    Ingenegr April 5 2021 09: 21
    +2
    The AK-12 product was initially positioned as "the fifth generation of Kalashnikov assault rifles." It was assumed that it will continue the legendary domestic line and provide the Russian army with modern weapons for the coming decades. The process of solving such problems turned out to be rather complicated and excessively long, but still led to the desired results. The army received new and more effective weapons.

    None of the above happened, except "turned out to be quite complicated and excessively long" and expensive.
  • John22
    John22 April 5 2021 09: 28
    +12
    I understand that the author Ryabov only rewrote the concern's message. My thoughts are not there. Otherwise, we would not have read the nonsense that the second sample was created from scratch, but the design is minimally different from the previous model. It was in the first sample that there were new solutions - or rather, a repetition of the achievements of the world industry. The accepted sample is the next modernization of the AK-74 and of inferior quality. The transfer of the aiming bar and front sight, a pseudo hanging barrel, an adjustable butt and a normal-sized handle - these are all achievements in 40 years. The designers were taken out - the managers remained. It's a shame for the state - what are we going to fight with.
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M April 5 2021 15: 01
      +1
      I also liked the magazine - a heel for resting on the ground and a pin-indicator of a fully charged magazine. The transparent windows are really not very small, it will be difficult to see through them in not bright light, the dirt will collect, but they will be scratched over time.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev April 6 2021 11: 09
        0
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        I liked the store - a heel for resting on the ground and a pin-indicator of a fully charged store

        Open the manual for any AK and you will see that the store was ALWAYS allowed to push. Nothing new.
        And the pin ... Just looking out the window is not kosher? Previously, a generally simple hole was drilled in the store at the level of the 30th cartridge.
        Half of the "innovations" of the AK-12 are plagiarism of the previously used one. The second half of the innovations could shoot, but not brought to mind, for example, a hanging barrel.
  • Revival
    Revival April 5 2021 10: 10
    +4
    “In January 2012, the AK-12 assault rifle was presented to the general public for the first time.
    In the same year, the Army conducted comparative tests, during which the developments of Izhmash competed with the automatic machines of the Kovrov Plant named after V.I. Degtyareva. Products A-545 and A-762 were recognized as winners and recommended for use in the "Ratnik" ".

    And let's re-compete for years until AK wins ...
    Clear.

    And the reviews, yes, it's scary to drop it, it happens that something falls off
  • Luty
    Luty April 5 2021 10: 24
    +1
    After reading the comments and looking at the photos, I got the impression that the AK 12 is not much superior in strength to its airsoft counterparts, and that is not a fact that much.
  • Barnabas
    Barnabas April 5 2021 10: 30
    +1
    Hmm ... is it a problem with the site, or what?
    When I first opened this article and there were no more than 5 comments to it, at the beginning of the article there was a photo signed "AK-12. 2013-14", where the machine gun looked like the 2016 version. And now, when there are 23 comments, this photo is not, the first is a picture with a 14-year assault rifle, where the assault rifle looks like an AK-74. Why is there no photo of the AK-12 2013-14?
    1. agond
      agond April 5 2021 11: 28
      +3
      It seems that the AK-12 should be equipped with a flat screwdriver-scraper for picking out dirt from the Picatinny rail and from other places (it can also be useful for picking out dirt from the soles of the ankle boots, because there are such grousers, !!! this is what a fighter would be like a walk-behind tractor on arable land. ). but seriously, the machine has a large external embossed surface, which contributes to the adhesion of a large mass of dirt on it and makes cleaning difficult.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick April 5 2021 11: 43
        +3
        Seriously, the machine has a large external embossed surface, which contributes to the adhesion of a large mass of dirt on it and makes cleaning difficult.

        Whoever forced them to carry out such a construct probably did not serve in the army, otherwise they would not have made such a dirt collector. There is not only a relief surface, there is a hole in the hole and even a perforated magazine. If only to change something, it is necessary, it is not necessary ... computer designers.
      2. loki565
        loki565 April 5 2021 14: 06
        -3
        This is a global trend, take any modern machine.
      3. Luty
        Luty April 5 2021 20: 01
        +2
        No scraper is dumb. Only a brush, otherwise they can break the product.
      4. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich April 8 2021 13: 25
        0
        Good point about the dirt in the soles of the ankle boots. The shape of the "lugs" is also surprising.
  • iouris
    iouris April 5 2021 12: 45
    +1
    Unconvincing. This is the most widespread weapon, if it has design flaws, then it is dangerous.
  • senima56
    senima56 April 5 2021 14: 42
    -3
    "Despite the remaining problems and shortcomings, the AK-12 model 2016 project can be generally considered successful." - this is perhaps the most important and important thing!
    And everything new has "childhood diseases". The famous PM was brought to mind for more than one year, so that in the end it became the "most reliable pistol"! hi
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin April 5 2021 15: 38
    +1
    There is information that the AK-12 forend is prone to cracking. All the same, it would be worth making plastic on an aluminum frame, reliably, inexpensively.
  • beeper
    beeper April 5 2021 15: 50
    +13
    In my youth, among other things, our Soviet weapons, I had a chance to shoot a lot from 7.62mm AKM and 5.45mm AKS-74, and operate them in the field.
    I must note with gratitude that our Soviet Motherland and the Working Soviet People did NOT save ammunition and related resources on our (my and my comrades') rifle training, achieving mastery of the entrusted weapon ...
    I am quite familiar with the history and material part of firearms, as well as with the history of creation, testing and development in production, design and technological features of these automatic rifles of the "AK family".
    I also have sufficient (almost 40 years) design and technological engineering (including all the main working professions in mechanical engineering) production experience.
    Therefore, I consider myself entitled express your own military engineering opinion on this "model" "Concern K. (alas, I know from experience that criticism of" KK "and its figures is fraught with the removal of the commentary, coupled with" defeat in rights ")."
    I consider "AK-12" a complete profanation of ideas and concepts that were originally incorporated into the "family" of AK-47-AK-74 assault rifles by their creators-designers MT Kalashnikov and his comrades!
    Suffice it to look at the complicated (in many ways, "intuitive-NOT obvious" and by no means "asking for its place"!) Incomplete disassembly-assembly with small, easily-lost parts, a three-part baggy-screwing fragile ramrod, NOT "folding" to the end lurid " sliding (only up to its usual length on a standard AK-74, no more, but what about the decades-old "lamenting" about the "short Kalashnikov butt", was it "lengthened" with quasi "improvement" ?!) "butt, fragile hollow control handle fire and other, the same flimsy, "bells and whistles", and dubious "improvements (for example, why was it necessary to complicate the trigger to" cut off twos "while maintaining a low rate of auto-fire, because even novice shooters from the AK were easily trained to" shoot once or twice " deuces ", or take the same supposedly" suspended "trunk, whose" suspended "is a priori canceled by a rigid side vent, and which would not have been violated by an ordinary one-piece ramrod under the barrel, but whatever you take .... complete disregard of wear the basic principles of the AK design, which just determined its outstanding reliability in battle and our soldier's sincere commitment!) "in order to understand the harmful contrivedness of such a" modernization "and the decline of the engineering thought" embedded "in this, not to mention the complete disregard of military operating experience drastically changed concepts of building such systems at the present time ...
    And this (conceptually outdated in its "architecture" !!!) dubious "miracle" on the KK "was designed and tested (" mastering "the state military budget)" for almost 10 years, and now they are "happily making happy" Russian soldiers ?! request
    With all this obvious deb ..., "sawing-AKmodernizatsionny", I am glad only that millions of good old Soviet AKM and AK-74 are stored in the warehouses of GRAU, which in the "hard times", I believe and know (as "old a soldier who does not know the words of love " winked ), they won't let us down!
    IMHO, I do not impose!
    1. Svateev
      Svateev April 6 2021 11: 19
      +2
      Quote: pishchak
      "suspended" is a priori canceled by a rigid lateral gas outlet,

      In AK-12, the gas pipe is disconnected from the gas chamber. There is a gap between them, a sheet of paper passes. Another thing is that in old AKs the connection was NOT rigid - the tube was simply put on the camera during incomplete assembly and disassembly and when the barrel was heated (lengthened) it moved without bending the barrel.
      As for the rest, I completely agree with you!
  • Gregory Charnota
    Gregory Charnota April 6 2021 00: 05
    0
    Sladkov, look who was filming in Chechnya and in the DNR he says a complete ram! one marriage
    the forend is cracking! the front sight falls off! the piston eats corrosion!
    1. Svateev
      Svateev April 6 2021 11: 21
      0
      Quote: Gregory Charnota
      Sladkov look

      Give a link to such a video by Sladkov.
      1. Gregory Charnota
        Gregory Charnota April 21 2021 11: 38
        0
        https://zen.yandex.ru/media/kalashnikov/ak12-pri-mne-nikto-osobo-ne-hvalil-6059d7734109067a3bc52d2e
  • vl903
    vl903 April 6 2021 11: 47
    0
    why do not they sell AEK as a saiga in a hunting option?
  • vl903
    vl903 April 6 2021 11: 47
    0
    how do you like AKV521 Kalashnikovsky?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 April 6 2021 13: 46
    +2
    The assigned engineering and technical tasks have been successfully solved

    but this is a lie.
    Not only did the rework of the machine create new problems (the strength of several elements and an increase in weight), but in fact, new useful properties have not appeared, except that something has become more convenient for little things. Considering that the assault rifle has become heavier and almost equaled the AEK and became less reliable, also actually becoming nothing in this regard, no better than the AEK, a simple question arises - why the hell is this assault rifle being introduced at all?
  • edelweiss968
    edelweiss968 April 6 2021 15: 03
    +1
    beeper
    Yesterday, 15:50 p.m.
    With all this obvious deb ..., "sawing-AKmodernizatsionny", I am glad only that millions of good old Soviet AKM and AK-74 are stored in the warehouses of GRAU, which in the "hard times", I believe and know (as "old a soldier who does not know the words of love "winked), they will not let us down!"

    sure the quantity will not meet expectations. taking into account the number of hucksters admitted to the trough.
    1. agond
      agond April 6 2021 19: 55
      +1
      Quote: Konnick
      Whoever forced them to carry out such a construct probably did not serve in the army, otherwise they would not have made such a dirt collector. There is not only a relief surface, there is a hole in the hole and even a perforated magazine. If only to change something, it is necessary, it is not necessary ... computer designers.

      The appearance or architecture is now being formed by designers - stylists, of course stylists, but they do not serve in the armies, their task is to give things a stylish, dumb, cool look
      1. Konnick
        Konnick April 6 2021 20: 08
        +2
        their task is to give things a stylish, dumb, cool look

        Thanks for the information, but I was taught at the institute in the 80s of the last century other principles of industrial design - ergonomics, functionality, information content, manufacturability, and of course the beauty of the product. If now the trend is "coolness" and "dumbness", then the designers from Kalashnikov succeeded. But I would make them run for a march with this product behind their backs, go through the obstacle course after the rain and then clean the machine.
        1. agond
          agond April 6 2021 22: 14
          +2
          It would be cool to set up an experiment, to stain the AK-12 in liquid concrete, and when it hardens, send it to the plant to the designers, let them clean it, by the way, it was noticed that scrap at a construction site from corrugated reinforcement is very difficult to clean from concrete, knock it or not knock it on the rail , but let's say scrap smooth and round is much easier, but scrap of a square cross section is cleaned best of all, that is, flat surfaces are best, with this simple thought I want to reach out to the mind of a gunsmith.
  • English tarantas
    English tarantas April 8 2021 10: 40
    +2
    At first I thought who could write that, it turned out as usual. The story with the AK-12 is a complete disgrace. Previously, everything was first given factory names, then army names, and now just like in the army. Because of that, KK confused the brains of the poor caretakers of domestic television programs such as the Military Receiver, in total we have a whole alley of AK-12 assault rifles that have a mediocre relationship to each other. At first, they did something new and interesting, okay, they licked it off with the AR-15, all these bars, switches, delay, but this is really convenient, they did not accept it - the Kovrovites turned out to be better (how many years they finished finishing AEK). Then they made an AK-74 out of a kind of new assault rifle, weighed it with slats, put a fashionable stock and a regular sight, made a version for 7,62 and a machine gun type (which looks more like the first AK-12, but come on, he has his own machine-gun jokes) ... Despite the fact that the competition ended with the victory of the A-545/762, the AK repeatedly conducted tests for its own money.
    In fact, they promoted the shabby AK-74 and they forgot how to do it, I did not see news about the real winner about the arrival of large series. The story of how KK has been trying for 10 years at the expense of the RF Armed Forces to learn how to make an AK-74.
    fifth generation Kalashnikov assault rifles

    AK, AKM / S / N, AK-74S / N / SN / SU / M, AK-101/2/3/4/5 (7/8/9 remembered about the ancient prototype), this is this absurdity under the name The AK-12 is already the fifth generation, but how the assault rifles differ so fundamentally that they can be divided into more than two generations is not clear to me personally. Coming up with new numbers and letters is not a generation, distorting an AK-74 is not a new weapon.
    1. Droid
      Droid April 9 2021 07: 29
      0
      Despite the fact that the competition was started with the sole purpose of pushing through the AEK, which had lost back in the 80s, common sense partially won and the AK-12 was accepted.
      1. English tarantas
        English tarantas April 9 2021 10: 27
        0
        Do not powder the brains of people, a-545/762 has little to do with aek. This time. When there was no ak-12 competition, there was no a-545 ready for the competition, as he lost the first two competitions, but he was dragged further and he won (in the competition for a-545 dragging through). Common sense won out and accepted ak-74 of poor quality, here's your health
        1. Droid
          Droid April 9 2021 11: 03
          0
          You don't powder your brains here. Balanced automation, and the carpet product with it, does not provide significant advantages in any form. It was clear back in the 80s, but under the 7,62x39 cartridge it does nothing at all, which was proven in practice in the 70s.
          When the competition was overwhelmed, there was no AK-12, the competition was given a-545 ready,

          What, in fact, is the conversation. This whole competition is an attempt to push through the carpet product. For a competition from one participant in general it is necessary to plant.