Military Review

On submarines, nicknamed "black holes" by a potential enemy: a submarine excursion

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On submarines, nicknamed "black holes" by a potential enemy: a submarine excursion

It is not for nothing that the Russian submarines of Project 636 Varshavyanka, including 636.3, are called “black holes” in the camp of a potential enemy. These are some of the hardest-to-find submarines in the world. With the autonomy of the submarine for 45 days, it is able to cover a 400-mile distance while in a submerged position.


Such submarines, starting with Project 636.1, have inertial navigation systems that provide information transfer to the missile system in a submerged position. This makes it possible to better ensure the secrecy of the submarine of the Russian Naval fleet.

One of these submarines is assigned to the Novorossiysk submarine base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. This is a multipurpose diesel-electric submarine Veliky Novgorod, which has been in service since 2016.

In the program "Military Acceptance" at the TK "Zvezda" there is an excursion around the submarine "Veliky Novgorod", it tells about the various compartments and specific rooms on board. During the excursion, the question is asked why there is a red box for smoking and incendiary devices on board the submarine, given that not only the Ministry of Health warns about the danger of smoking as such, but also the fact that smoking on board the submarine is strictly prohibited.

The answers to these and other questions regarding the service and life of submariners are in the plot:

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  1. kapitan92
    kapitan92 April 1 2021 22: 48
    +1
    With the autonomy of the submarine for 45 days, it is able to cover a 400-mile distance while in a submerged position.

    45 days submerged ???
    Maybe I didn't understand something?
    1. rudolff
      rudolff April 1 2021 22: 56
      +5
      This is taking into account the use of the RDP on the periscope. The diesel engine is running, the storage batteries are being charged, the VVD is knocked out.
      1. kapitan92
        kapitan92 April 1 2021 23: 01
        +3
        Quote: rudolff
        This is taking into account the use of the RDP on the periscope. The diesel engine is running, the storage batteries are being charged, the VVD is knocked out.

        Well, the author of the article had to write, and I really thought it was a sinful thing, what a fig for us VNEU, every 45 days we go underwater. hi
        1. rudolff
          rudolff April 1 2021 23: 41
          +5
          Usually "underwater autonomy" is distinguished, i.e. the time the submarine is in a submerged position without surfacing under the RDP. And so ... autonomy is determined purely by provisions for the crew and diesel fuel for the diesel engine.
          1. kapitan92
            kapitan92 April 1 2021 23: 59
            +2
            Quote: rudolff
            Usually "underwater autonomy" is distinguished, i.e. the time the submarine is in a submerged position without surfacing under the RDP.

            How many days on this type of boat?
            1. rudolff
              rudolff April 2 2021 00: 32
              +6
              With new batteries in strict energy saving mode, it can last a week. Usually 3-4 days. Again, if the battery is not killed. With active maneuvering, with the use of the main electric motor - a day or two. Well, with full underwater speed, the battery will go to zero in a matter of hours.
              1. kapitan92
                kapitan92 April 2 2021 00: 38
                +2
                Thanks . I expected 3-5 days, depending on the situation.
                It is curious to compare with the German p / l, 212 series, after all, somewhere in the early 2000s, they went into service.
                1. rudolff
                  rudolff April 2 2021 01: 09
                  +6
                  It's hard to compare them. 212nd fresh ship, modern technology. Varshavyanka, although modernized, but the legs of the project somewhere in the 70s. Nothing fundamental has changed in it. Well, underwater autonomy ... What is three days versus three weeks for a German woman? Moreover, it is not known at what moment a combat mission may arrive, what percentage of the battery charge will be available. And a German woman will always have 100%. Maybe precisely because Varshavyanka is difficult to compare with Germans or Swedes and did not begin to build a new series for the Baltic. With boats we have a complete ... oops.
                  1. kapitan92
                    kapitan92 April 2 2021 01: 28
                    +2
                    Yeah! Everything is relative. It's sad!
                    One thing is good news that something is better than nothing.
                    Thanks for the consultation . hi
                  2. dauria
                    dauria April 2 2021 14: 23
                    -1
                    What is three days versus three weeks for a German woman?


                    A German or a Swedish woman walks under water for three weeks, what move? Probably still creeping. There are no miracles. Both "styling" and hydrogen cells are only slightly better than lithium batteries in terms of energy capacity. Yes, it's better than the lead ones at Varshavyanka. But in the end, all VNEUs are not worth a damn. The same slow boat, chained to position, capable of a single dash. Moreover, Varshavyanka will be able to charge at least. These are no longer there. It's easier to throw out all the stirlings and others, and give the vacated displacement for lithium batteries. An old proven solution that does not require "exclusive" base equipment, cryogenics or sophisticated expensive chemical components.
                    1. rudolff
                      rudolff April 2 2021 16: 02
                      +3
                      1. "A German or a Swedish woman has been walking under water for three weeks? Probably, she is still crawling." 2-3 knots. Most of the time on patrol she doesn't need anymore. Nuclear-powered ships are slightly larger on auxiliary EMs or EMPs. Only from the last generation did the term “maximum silent run” appear. Regarding the submarine, 2-3 knots are the first generation VNEU. On new projects, the capacity of VNEU is already significantly higher, and accordingly, the speed will increase.
                      2. About a single power plant for underwater and surface passage so far only talk. All submarines have a diesel when surfaced. Both the Germans and the Swedes may well charge the battery from a diesel generator on the surface or under the RPD. Not only Varshavyanka. In general, they try, without special need, not to force the installation and not to spend the same fuel cells in the ECH.
                      3. "An old proven solution that does not require" exclusive "equipment ..." If you are talking about German electric bots during WWII, then yes. If you are talking about LIABs or their analogues, then no. So far, only one single combat boat runs with them and the whole world is watching this Japanese woman with interest. Time will tell what the result will be. In any case, LIABs are a very expensive pleasure and are not a full-fledged replacement for VNEU. With VNEU, at the time of the appearance of the combat mission, the battery is always 100% charged and the boat is always ready for active maneuvering. On LIABs, as well as on other other AkB - like a god to the soul. Maybe 80%, maybe 30% ...
                      There are too many myths around LIABs lately. You just need to look on the Internet and compare those parameters of lithium batteries with others. Yes, there will be a difference, sometimes even at times, but not by orders of magnitude! This is not a miracle at all.
                      1. dauria
                        dauria April 2 2021 17: 37
                        0
                        You just need to look on the Internet and compare those parameters of lithium batteries with other

                        It is necessary to compare lithium with the Stirling or with the fuel cells of the 212nd boat. And here a simple thing comes out - you carry with you an oxidizer and fuel in a ratio of 3 to 1 minus the efficiency of the heat engine itself at 30% maximum. You get a win from a gulkin's nose, and hemorrhoids with liquid oxygen or expensive disposable "batteries" (regenerate them later laughing )
                        Was it in vain that the Japanese spat on this venture and filled the nine-meter additional compartment with lithium batteries, throwing out the VNEU?
                      2. rudolff
                        rudolff April 2 2021 18: 55
                        +2
                        "It is in vain that the Japanese spat on this venture and filled the nine-meter additional compartment with lithium batteries ..."
                        I have no idea, in vain or not in vain! You know? Me not. And nobody knows. Again, only one combat boat in the world now runs with lithium batteries. Well, recently, the second was launched into the water and the last from Soryu with lithium. The Japanese classified all information on these ships. They only cunningly mention that the underwater autonomy of Soryu with lithiums is comparable to Soryu with Stirling. Nobody knows what this means! They do not know whether the standard number of lithium batteries or, as you say, the entire compartment was filled with them. It is not even known whether these boats have abandoned the Stirling or whether the installation with lithium batteries complements each other. There is a minimum of information, and a wagon and a small cart are already speculations. It is known for sure that the price of these ships jumped at once by $ 100 million with a hook per "piece". In principle, it was possible to fill the compartment with ordinary batteries, increasing the autonomy. A la analogue of German electric robots. But they don't do that, why? They continue to bother with these Stirlings, EHG at FC, diesel engines and closed-cycle turbines.
                        If the experience of the Japanese turns out to be positive, and the lithium batteries themselves increase in reliability and fall in price, then everything is possible. Until then ...
                        By the way, we don't have such batteries anyway. Ruby deals with them. The result is the same as with VNEU. Certified several years ago traction LIABs for sea transport, but they are not suitable for submarines. Anyhow you can't stick it in. At Losharik they tried what it ended up with, everyone knows. LIABs wanted to install Lada instead of VNEU on the second and third buildings. Nope!
                2. Simple
                  Simple April 4 2021 09: 14
                  -1
                  Quote: rudolff
                  ... And a German woman will always have 100% ...


                  Das UBoot - neuter and you attributed them to feminine lol ... About a hundred forgives - there is no perpetual motion machine. On U212 boats, it is limited by supplies of liquid oxygen and hydrogen (not in liquid form).
                  1. rudolff
                    rudolff April 4 2021 10: 12
                    +2
                    Well, I don't write in German, and not in Swedish. And in Russian "boat" is feminine. Although atomic is sometimes masculine as a "cruiser".
                    As for the perpetual motion machine, you misunderstood. VNEU not only charges the battery, but also provides energy consumption for the entire ship and turns the rowing electric motors directly. That is, under VNEU, the battery charge is not consumed at all, they are always fully charged. If it is necessary to increase the stroke or in the case of active maneuvering, VNEU already works together with the battery. And they have hydrogen, yes, metallized.
                    1. Simple
                      Simple April 4 2021 10: 59
                      +1
                      I don’t know, spend a finite amount of hydrogen and oxygen while patrolling? It's like a "strategic reserve".
                    2. rudolff
                      rudolff April 4 2021 11: 27
                      +1
                      This is during wartime, during a threatened period or when performing combat missions. And so yes, VNEU rests, every night under the RDP. And the point is not in hydrogen or oxygen, but in expensive fuel cells for ECH. This is from German boats. How the Swedes, Japanese or Chinese treat their Stirlings, I don't know. Maybe everything is simpler there.
                    3. Simple
                      Simple April 4 2021 11: 49
                      0
                      Norway in the north, Greece, Italy, Israel and Turkey in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. These are all bases for recharging fuel for VNEU installation U212 / 214.
                      (I don't take South Korea into account)
                    4. Simple
                      Simple April 4 2021 12: 23
                      0
                      And then, what does "expensive" fuel cells mean?
                      If we are talking in the context of VNEU for Russian submarines, then the criterion "expensive" still goes to the third or fourth plan.

                      The first is Reliability and Safety.
                      The second is power.
                      The third is the possibility (for example) of refueling from a ship on the high seas - i.e. ease of delivery, storage and refueling itself.
                      And only then - the cost.
      2. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa April 2 2021 11: 55
        +4
        Asked to transfer a man with a diesel engine, he is banned on the VO. As far as the truth is, I don’t know:

        She will be able to stay under water (without RDP) for a maximum of 3 days, not 5 days. And then in the silence mode, the watchmen in the bunks do not move so as not to emit CO. With the galley stoves turned off, they consume electricity comparable to the economy. On the fourth day, accumulate about 0,8% CO, almost the limit. We have an old chemical regeneration on diesel engines (based on N2H2). As in BOB, it regenerates CO2, produces O2 and water. But CO is not regenerated. There is no oxygen distribution (KDU) installation. Only on nuclear powered ships.
        1. rudolff
          rudolff April 2 2021 12: 37
          +2
          What is the project and how much after the average repair with the replacement of batteries? Three days maximum in silence mode, this is not enough even for the 641st. More like 613. Yes, there was a day or two for happiness. I found them in the 80s in Liepaja. Both the ships and the battery were killed. But Varshavyak with normal batteries should be kept for three days in normal mode.
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa April 2 2021 21: 36
            +2
            Answer:

            Mixed numbers with CO and CO2

            Batteries from nuclear-powered ships were installed on KSF diesel boats. After 3 years of service. Very rarely new. Hydrogen was strongly emitted, afterburning furnaces could not cope. On a diesel engine 641B of project 4 squadron of 69 brigade B-546 (commander Captain 2nd rank Simakov), in 1980 they experimented after being submerged, without the RDP, they held out for 5 days. They turned off the galley stoves, only made tea, and fried alcoholized bread. The compartments were illuminated with only two carriers. The watchmen lay in bunks. But a huge amount of garbage accumulated. every night. First of all, forced ventilation of the compartments.

            From myself: For what I bought in this case, I sell for that.
            1. rudolff
              rudolff April 3 2021 08: 37
              +1
              Well then it all fits. On 641B with already used battery packs, it is worth a lot to hold out for five days.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim April 2 2021 17: 07
          +3
          .On the fourth day, approximately 0,8% CO will accumulate, almost the limit
          The maximum permissible concentration of CO is 0,0170%. 0,08% causes suffocation and headache, if exceeded up to 0,32%, paralysis and loss of consciousness are observed. When exposed to this concentration for 25-30 minutes, death is most likely.
          1. rudolff
            rudolff April 2 2021 18: 25
            +2
            I did not quite understand here either. There may be confusion between CO and CO2, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. For CO2, there was indeed a maximum allowable content of 0,8%. With this value, emergency RDUs with V-64 have already been used at nuclear power plants. But with a content of 0,8% CO in the air, i.e. carbon monoxide, this is probably a large mass grave.
          2. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa April 2 2021 21: 35
            +2
            CO2, human confused concentration.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim April 2 2021 21: 47
              +3
              Oxygen distribution (KDU) installation
              Here, it seems, too, confused. Probably it meant "air separation unit". So her DPL will not pull on energy.
        3. Aag
          Aag April 2 2021 19: 59
          0
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Asked to transfer a man with a diesel engine, he is banned on the VO. As far as the truth is, I don’t know:

          She will be able to stay under water (without RDP) for a maximum of 3 days, not 5 days. And then in the silence mode, the watchmen in the bunks do not move so as not to emit CO. With the galley stoves turned off, they consume electricity comparable to the economy. On the fourth day, accumulate about 0,8% CO, almost the limit. We have an old chemical regeneration on diesel engines (based on N2H2). As in BOB, it regenerates CO2, produces O2 and water. But CO is not regenerated. There is no oxygen distribution (KDU) installation. Only on nuclear powered ships.

          Alexander, is it true that everything is so ... in the paddock in the Navy (submarine in particular)? Or, simply, there were no truth-takers in other troops?
          Sincerely, without scruples, I am interested in your opinion. I understand that it is subjective. And it saddens that it is not far from the objective (IMHO) ...
          Pleases the abundance of submariners on the site. (Perhaps, there are still plenty of tankers)
          Allows you to add a more or less objective picture of the current realities of the Navy, submarine in particular ...
          On the other hand, when some authors, many commentators, run into unresolved problems of "their" kind, the kind of the Armed Forces, sooner or later, something sounds like: "Yes, and hell with him, - the Strategic Missile Forces will come, - everyone will judge! will get even ... "
          Outraged by this approach.
          I can write a lot about the Strategic Missile Forces in the 90s, noughties ... There are judgments about the current ones, he is the division headquarters, you can see from the window ... The children of colleagues serve ... You will go for mushrooms, - to the UBSP (combat training starting positions ) you will come across ... It does not inspire ... (except that you can steal a thorn in the garden))).
          To be honest, there was no doubt about the effectiveness of the weapons entrusted to the Strategic Missile Forces. However, there was no real confirmation of the effectiveness. The range, KVO, neither I nor any of my friends measured with roulettes)). EVERYTHING started! During my service 27 "Pioneers" (one with a delay), three "Poplars" ... I did not see any results. They said that it was normal ..
          What, exactly, am I?
          1. Aag
            Aag April 2 2021 20: 17
            +2
            ... The smartphone no longer perceives beeches ...
            Yes, that sometimes it is difficult to assess the effectiveness of certain systems, weapons, and even the types and types of the Armed Forces. It seems like there is a General Staff, other structures ... But they operate with the data provided to them on the basis of certain The employees know how the results of inspections are formed ... Byada-ah! ...
            In order not to aggravate the gloomy situation, I found some positive in Klimov's article. Alexander, Maxim, I congratulate, it seems, with your labors, the matter has moved forward, the topic has found resonance. Let's hope for the right conclusions and decisions.
            Thank you guys !!! hi
            1. Aag
              Aag April 2 2021 20: 29
              +3
              Well, and to defuse the situation (sorry, of course, in another branch it would be necessary):
              "... An American military drone flew over a Russian Navy destroyer ... Returned to base (avik) with Yandex, State Services, Besogon TV installed ..."
            2. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa April 2 2021 21: 37
              +2
              We will try
              1. Aag
                Aag April 2 2021 22: 15
                +2
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                We will try

                Thank you!
                Good luck!
  • Vladimir Mitin_2
    Vladimir Mitin_2 April 3 2021 17: 08
    +1
    I understand your doubts, which were sown by kapitan 92-rank. Our dll can move under water at full speed for 1 hour, after that it is necessary to surface under the RDP and the diesel engine to charge the battery, while waiting for a nice meeting with Orion, or with its analogue or with anti-submarine forces Read the adventures of our dpl 641 ave during the Cuban missile crisis
  • fomin
    fomin April 10 2021 11: 03
    0
    There are so many stupid citizens who, like brainless troubadours, whistle about the one that will tell them on TV. Let's finally deal with this "black hole". She makes little noise, hurray, ours won, but let's remember what means of detecting submarines are currently available. passive are those who listen to where it makes noise and what makes noise in the ocean, these can miss Varshavyanka at long distances, active means of detecting these means in figs the boat makes no noise, floats or stands still, so they easily find all the "black holes", Now the boat itself , with a full underwater course, the battery energy will last for 1 hour with an economical course of 2-3 days, and then it needs to swim at least under the RPD to start the diesel engine, and then it is easy to find it by the diesel exhaust and using the radar that sees the RPM at a distance of 15- 20 km, i.e. a potential adversary does not need to chase after our "black hole", it is only necessary to wait a little and it will emerge by itself. A little history, the Varshavyanka project was made for the Warsaw Pact countries, someone remembers what kind of contract it was, and the boats are still riveted against the backdrop of the emergence of a new class of submarines, NNS, which many countries have already acquired. Russia has lagged behind a lot in this matter, and riveting of obsolete rubbish under the joyful cries of the troubadours will backfire in the event of a war.