Military Review

The probable place of service of the first serial submarine of the project 677 "Lada"

72

The newest diesel-electric submarine "Kronstadt" of project 677 (Lada) will become part of the Baltic or Severny fleet, the issue is pending. Reported by "News" with reference to a source in the Ministry of Defense.


"Kronstadt" is the first serial submarine of the "Lada" project, laid down after the lead "St. Petersburg". The second production submarine is the Velikie Luki diesel-electric submarine, the contract for the construction of the third and fourth submarines of the project has been signed, but the start is not planned yet. Most likely, shipbuilders expect the appearance of a domestic air-independent installation.

"Kronstadt" is a long-term construction of the domestic shipbuilding industry. The bookmark took place in July 2005. In 2009, by the decision of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the construction of the order was suspended pending the transfer of the main order of the series of submarines "St. Petersburg" to trial operation. The resumption of construction took place on July 9, 2013. September 20, 2018 "Kronstadt" was launched.

Currently "Kronstadt" is being completed at the "Admiralty Shipyards". The delay in the construction of the Lada submarines is explained by changes to the project already in the process of construction, as well as by problems with one of the equipment suppliers. The transfer of the submarine to the Navy is scheduled for 2022.

Project 677 submarines of the "Lada" type belong to the fourth generation of diesel-electric submarines. They have a low noise level. Submerged speed - 21 knots, crew - 35 people. The main armament is the KR "Caliber". The lead boat of Project 677 is Saint Petersburg, which was delivered to the fleet in 2010 and is still in trial operation.
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee April 1 2021 11: 26
    +10
    "Kronstadt" is a long-term construction
    Yeah, I got a "beard" ...
    1. xorek
      xorek April 1 2021 11: 41
      -5
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      "Kronstadt" is a long-term construction
      Yeah, I got a "beard" ...

      And yet Vladimir went into the series! Sly submarines are very .. Well, God forbid! hi
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 1 2021 11: 47
        +14
        Quote: xorek
        And yet Vladimir went into the series!

        The fact of the matter is that I did not go. In fact, at one time, 3 pieces were laid, the lead was transferred to the fleet with such "shoals" that it is still in trial operation, two were re-laid, since it was necessary to globally remake in the light of the trial operation of the first. And so - I was glad that they had contracted the fourth and fifth, but they are not all pledged. This means that it is not possible to bring 677 to an acceptable level.
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 April 1 2021 11: 53
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          the head was transferred to the fleet with such "shoals" that it is still in trial operation

          She has been in Kronstadt for maintenance and modernization since last year. I don't know how deep the modernization is.
          1. Alexilyin
            Alexilyin April 1 2021 17: 27
            +1
            Artem, they shove her under a regular diesel engine, because VNEU, which was supposed to be on it, will not work. Despite all the mantras of leadership. The rest of the boats of this project will also be without VNEU.
        2. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg April 1 2021 13: 06
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: xorek
          And yet Vladimir went into the series!

          The fact of the matter is that I did not go. In fact, at one time, 3 pieces were laid, the lead was transferred to the fleet with such "shoals" that it is still in trial operation, two were re-laid, since it was necessary to globally remake in the light of the trial operation of the first. And so - I was glad that they had contracted the fourth and fifth, but they are not all pledged. This means that it is not possible to bring 677 to an acceptable level.


          They just want to look at the operation of the already serial modernized Ladas, and then make a decision on construction, and not start building and then redo the project again during the construction process.
          In March this year, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov, announced that in the near future the fleet will receive two Project 677 boats - Kronstadt and Velikiye Luki. There are plans to build two more. The decision on further purchases, he said, will be made based on the results of the practical operation of serial samples.

          The Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the construction of the third and fourth serial submarines with Admiralty Shipyards two years ago. But its practical implementation has not yet begun. The general director of the enterprise, Alexander Buzakov, said that no new submarines of the Lada project would be laid down this year either. Like all the previous ones, it is planned to build them not with a promising air-independent power plant (VNEU), but with a conventional diesel-electric one.

          https://iz.ru/1144990/anton-lavrov-aleksei-ramm/lady-prioritet-besshumnoi-podvodnoi-lodke-nashli-mesto-sluzhby
        3. Machito
          Machito April 1 2021 14: 18
          +2
          17 years from bookmark to handover to the fleet. sad Under Nicholas II, they were still building quickly.
      2. Niko
        Niko April 1 2021 12: 40
        0
        Quote: xorek
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        "Kronstadt" is a long-term construction
        Yeah, I got a "beard" ...

        And yet Vladimir went into the series! Sly submarines are very .. Well, God forbid! hi

        Unfortunately, what was a "gimmick" 20 years ago in design tends to become obsolete.
        1. xorek
          xorek April 1 2021 14: 03
          -1
          Quote: Niko
          Unfortunately, what was a "gimmick" 20 years ago in design tends to become obsolete.

          And now what for metal .. Like in the 90s? It gets old because they talk a lot and leak many secrets .. That is the problem! It is no coincidence that Putin recently signed a decree on the nationalization of all military-industrial complex enterprises ...
          They surrender the bastards and tear them to London .. And all the work of the eagle is down the drain .. angry
          1. Niko
            Niko April 1 2021 14: 07
            +1
            Quote: xorek
            Quote: Niko
            Unfortunately, what was a "gimmick" 20 years ago in design tends to become obsolete.

            And now what for metal .. Like in the 90s? It gets old because they talk a lot and leak many secrets .. That is the problem! It is no coincidence that Putin recently signed a decree on the nationalization of all military-industrial complex enterprises ...
            They surrender the bastards and tear them to London .. And all the work of the eagle is down the drain .. angry

            No, of course, there is no need for scrap metal. However, to be touched and roll your eyes FINALLY FINALLY BUILDING a ship that is already lagging behind at the moment of launching ????
            1. xorek
              xorek April 1 2021 14: 14
              0
              Quote: Niko
              However, to be touched and roll your eyes FINALLY FINALLY BUILDING a ship that is already lagging behind at the moment of launching ???? "Smart face, this is not a sign of the mind of the Lord" ...

              Oh well ... hi But the whining is even worse, as if everything was gone, etc. And it's time to get out of this "barbaric" country .. Are you hinting at this "master"?
              1. Niko
                Niko April 1 2021 14: 32
                +1
                Quote: xorek
                Quote: Niko
                However, to be touched and roll your eyes FINALLY FINALLY BUILDING a ship that is already lagging behind at the moment of launching ???? "Smart face, this is not a sign of the mind of the Lord" ...

                Oh well ... hi But the whining is even worse, as if everything was gone, etc. And it's time to get out of this "barbaric" country .. Are you hinting at this "master"?
                No, not that. I would answer you in the style of V.V., a childish saying: "someone who hurts, he says about that"
            2. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa April 1 2021 17: 15
              +3
              Quote: Niko
              FINALLY FINALLY BUILDING a ship that is already lagging behind at the moment of launching ???? "

              The 677 project surpasses in its capabilities all non-nuclear boats that we have built before. And in terms of the composition of weapons and the capabilities of onboard weapons, it even surpasses the 885 project.
              Therefore - "he laughs well who knows what to laugh at, and where it is better to be silent, so that knowledgeable people would consider him smart ..." (Diderot, from unpublished).
              About AIP and new batteries, as well as PMGs on permanent magnets. Variation "D" will be devoid of all these drawbacks, since the solution to the problem was passed on to another think tank. And they don't like to joke there ... (They say that they have even learned how to light the stars!) bully
              1. Niko
                Niko April 1 2021 18: 58
                0
                Quote: BoA KAA
                Quote: Niko
                FINALLY FINALLY BUILDING a ship that is already lagging behind at the moment of launching ???? "

                The 677 project surpasses in its capabilities all non-nuclear boats that we have built before. And in terms of the composition of weapons and the capabilities of onboard weapons, it even surpasses the 885 project.
                Therefore - "he laughs well who knows what to laugh at, and where it is better to be silent, so that knowledgeable people would consider him smart ..." (Diderot, from unpublished).
                About AIP and new batteries, as well as PMGs on permanent magnets. Variation "D" will be devoid of all these drawbacks, since the solution to the problem was passed on to another think tank. And they don't like to joke there ... (They say that they have even learned how to light the stars!) bully

                I see you special thanks for the science. "Surpasses all non-nuclear boats that we have built before" -HIT to compare YOUR new with YOUR old! Applause. But did not think that it is necessary to compare your new one with the new enemy ?????? And it lags behind not the newest NOT OUR
                1. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa April 1 2021 19: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: Niko
                  And it lags behind not the newest NOT OUR
                  Is it from the Japanese woman who surfaced under the cargo ship? laughing
                  Don't bother too much stop so that it doesn't work like in a meme:
                  1. Niko
                    Niko April 1 2021 20: 40
                    -5
                    Quote: BoA KAA
                    Quote: Niko
                    And it lags behind not the newest NOT OUR
                    Is it from the Japanese woman who surfaced under the cargo ship? laughing
                    Don't bother too much stop so that it doesn't work like in a meme:

                    You are right YOUR QUESTIONS are really ooooooo dumb laughing
                2. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa April 5 2021 23: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Niko
                  "surpasses all non-nuclear boats that we have built before" - HIT to compare YOUR new with YOUR old! Applause. Didn't you think that you need to compare your new one with the new enemy?

                  To be honest, I tried very hard to find a convincing answer to your reproach.
                  So --- look, clickable.
        2. Grits
          Grits April 1 2021 15: 13
          -1
          Quote: Niko
          Unfortunately, what was a "gimmick" 20 years ago in design tends to become obsolete.

          In general, it would be interesting to know what is so super cunning about her? Why is she better than the Varshavyanka or the last German or Japanese boats?
          1. Niko
            Niko April 1 2021 15: 23
            -1
            Quote: Gritsa
            Quote: Niko
            Unfortunately, what was a "gimmick" 20 years ago in design tends to become obsolete.

            In general, it would be interesting to know what is so super cunning about her? Why is she better than the Varshavyanka or the last German or Japanese boats?

            This is just not difficult. There is enough information, read. On VO, for example, there are excellent articles on the problems of Russian submarines, written quite competently. And specifically about this project has been repeatedly written
    2. Vladimir Mashkov
      Vladimir Mashkov April 1 2021 14: 16
      +5
      Several years ago, when at Politicus I complained about the absence of VNEU, I was spat and trampled for skepticism. And - come on! - VNEU and still, unfortunately, no ...
      And the boats are pretty.
  2. mark1
    mark1 April 1 2021 11: 30
    -5
    Baltika is normal. And V.I. not big and renovated, if anything, near and the absence of VNU is not critical.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 1 2021 17: 25
      +2
      Quote: mark1
      Baltika is normal.

      It's bold! yes
      We have the North naked with their strategists. There is no one to spoil the "virgins" of AmerZ ... Do you think why for 10 years "St.
      Therefore, given the bare backside of our PLB, most likely a few will go to guard Gadzhievo and Vidyaevo at the same time as Vaenga and the surrounding area.
      IMHO.
    2. hrych
      hrych April 1 2021 23: 13
      0
      P-750B - Russian small multipurpose submarine. For the first time, the P-750B project was presented at the Army-2019 forum in 2019, where representatives of the Malakhit design bureau revealed some of the design features.
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/П-750Б_(подводная_лодка)
      This is optimal for the Baltic. Surface displacement of 1450 tons, for example, at Varshavyanka, surface displacement of 2350 tons. Crew 20. In the range of weapons, including the Caliber from TA 533 mm. Also VNEU. A Lada in a link to the Federation Council. laughing
  3. knn54
    knn54 April 1 2021 11: 33
    -9
    Submarine fighter ... budget.
  4. Thrifty
    Thrifty April 1 2021 11: 33
    -8
    So a boat on ordinary diesel engines, it seems, and no matter where to put it, it will not go further than the sea!
  5. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 1 2021 11: 39
    -2
    And how does Lada differ from Varshavyanka? Except VNEU.
    1. mark1
      mark1 April 1 2021 11: 44
      +7
      Everyone ... Except VNEU ...
      1. Revival
        Revival April 1 2021 12: 33
        +10
        Yes, according to VNEU they are the same, both do not have it
      2. Grits
        Grits April 1 2021 15: 15
        0
        Quote: mark1
        Everyone ... Except VNEU ...

        I think the question should be posed differently - How is she better than Varshavyanka?
    2. vvvjak
      vvvjak April 1 2021 11: 45
      +4
      The size and quantity of l / s are smaller, more automated, less noisy, etc. But VNEU is not yet being developed.
      1. hrych
        hrych April 1 2021 13: 16
        -3
        VNEU is not needed now, the relevance has disappeared with the adoption of the Caliber. The range of strike weapons allows you to perform basic tasks without leaving your active zone of the PKO / PLO. And the rest will be completely done by nuclear-powered ships, because the best VNEU is a nuclear reactor. A terrible thing also happened, a compact YSU of high power appeared in the Russian Federation (ala the heart of Poseidon). Dollezhal's egg is resurrected wassat With a slight movement of the hand, the diesel engine turns into a nuclear-powered ship wassat There was no sense in this when the main weapon of the diesel was mine and torpedo. Now the diesels have got strategic weapons in their clutches, they are also the most powerful tactical weapons, which is the nomenclature of calibers, from strategic, anti-ship missiles, to missile-torpedoes. VNEU, even with Stirling, even with reforming, is always noisier than electric ships, and their cryogenic installations, etc., are complete sadness and a dead-end road. Therefore, Lada and hung, not even because there are problems with VNEU, but on the contrary, there is a breakthrough in parallel industries. It happens. It's okay if three LADs remain in the Baltic in the end, and that's enough. In Caliber / Dollezhal mode, Varshavyanka is preferable, and in this case Lada has no advantages, rather the opposite. Unless, of course, Lada does not receive the same vertical launchers and does not become the most powerful - a strategic missile carrier, which is not bad in the near theater, but with a testicle and in the distant laughing .
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak April 1 2021 14: 54
          +2
          Quote: hrych
          VNEU is not needed now, the relevance has disappeared with the adoption of the Caliber.

          A controversial enough statement. At least the developers of VNEU RF disagree with you, they argue that a "super-duper device" is currently being developed, which has no analogues in the world (well, this is as usual).
          Quote: hrych
          Now the diesels have got strategic weapons in their clutches, they are also the most powerful tactical weapons, which is the nomenclature of calibers, from strategic, anti-ship missiles, to missile-torpedoes

          Well, I would not extol the dignity of the "Caliber" to the level of "wunderwaffe", in fact it is an analogue of the "ax" with a slightly more expanded range of applications.
          Quote: hrych
          a compact YSU of high power appeared in the Russian Federation

          I like your idea of ​​replacing VNEU with a small-sized YSU. But to be honest, I have little idea of ​​how it works, and the price-efficiency factor should be looked at
          1. hrych
            hrych April 1 2021 15: 07
            +3
            Quote: vvvjak
            At least the developers of VNEU RF disagree with you

            The end of funding is scheduled, therefore, a loud statement about super-duper (Trump) laughing
            Quote: vvvjak
            Well, I would not extol the dignity of "Caliber"

            No, not an Ax. This is only the ZM-14 analogue of the Ax, and the Caliber range is wider. Anti-ship missiles with a supersonic stage, anti-ship missiles without a supersonic stage, Missile-torpedoes ala Waterfall and more. And the ZM-14, including the strategic diesel-powered version, is also a breakthrough for this class of submarines. In this sense, Caliber is a super-duper wunder ... laughing
            Quote: vvvjak
            "price-efficiency"

            Everything is already ... before us. The collapse of the USSR slowed down, but did not kill. Now the time has come. The idea is to mount the mini-reactor outside the rigid body, than to save on the protection of the crew. And also a removable option will add versatility. Mount as needed and not mount when there is no need. Dollezhal was ahead of his time, but now the time has come.
            1. mark1
              mark1 April 1 2021 15: 20
              +2
              Quote: hrych
              Dollezhal was ahead of his time, but now the time has come.

              Fruits in your ears ... -true. WOW and lithium-ion batteries in a closed theater
              And the enthusiasm for VNEU can be explained by the export factor.
              1. hrych
                hrych April 1 2021 15: 39
                +2
                Quote: mark1
                And the enthusiasm for VNEU can be explained by the export factor.

                Definitely. drinks However, a potential buyer should have a higher desire, even if it is an export one, but a Caliber on board (range 300 km) than the ability to get relatively unnoticed at a torpedo attack distance (well, 10 km). Also, the Japanese, who are confident Stirling users, are worn out with cryo-installations and are leaning towards lithium-ion batteries. The first boat was built on lithium batteries, so the price is such that it is easier to build an Ash tree with this money wassat And the noise of Stirling's work is not small, it also monitors well.
            2. vvvjak
              vvvjak April 1 2021 15: 35
              0
              Quote: hrych
              No Ax

              "- This is Jazelle. French. I recognized her. On the leg.
              - No, this is not Jazelle. Jazelle was a brunet, and this one is all white. "(C), movie" Formula of Love " laughing
              Ax also has a variant of anti-ship missiles. PLUR "Caliber PL" in the range of use is comparable to the US torpedo (about 50 km), here speed against stealth plays a role.
              1. hrych
                hrych April 1 2021 15: 50
                0
                There is no Tomahawk in the anti-ship missile version yet, they tested it, threw it, and now they are looking at us again. Caliber ala Waterfall is inevitable. You can't run away from him (especially if the SBCH). And from a torpedo fired from a distance of 50 km, you can escape, you can destroy it, etc., Waterfall allows you to destroy the enemy, even who fired first, etc. And the anti-ship missile caliber with a supersonic stage is the pinnacle of anti-ship missiles. All the best from subsonic anti-ship missiles, i.e. range and compactness. And all the best from supersonic in the final section. Such a super-duper RCC. wassat
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 April 1 2021 18: 04
                  +1
                  There is no Tomahawk in the RCC variant yet

                  There is. The first one, in the Block V version, was received by US NAVY last week. hi
                  The first mass-produced Tomahawk cruise missile in the Block V modification was added to the armament of the American fleet. The information about this was spread by the US command.

                  As it goes in the message, the first upgraded to the latest version of the Tomahawk Block V entered the US Navy on March 25, 2021. The missiles are being upgraded at Raytheon Technologies in Camden, Arkansas.

                  More details at: https://avia.pro/news/krylataya-raketa-tomahawk-block-v-postupila-na-vooruzhenie-vms-ssha

                  A Caliber anti-ship missile with a supersonic stage is the pinnacle of anti-ship missiles.

                  There is not a single such missile (3M-54) in the Navy.
                  IMHO, of course, but the top of the RCC is Zircon. wink
                  1. hrych
                    hrych April 1 2021 19: 07
                    +1
                    ZM-54E is even exported, in particular to India, Vietnam and China. Those. you refused our fleet, but the Indo-Chinese have a type, but the United States gave one piece for testing and you have already adopted it laughing They have already tried and nothing came of it, I hope they will fail.
                    Zircon has its own cluster and does not cancel our supersonic ones, which Americans only dreamed of in nightmares, and also does not cancel subsonic ones in which they can only boast of a Harpoon, and we have the entire line in range and power.
                    1. Alex777
                      Alex777 April 1 2021 19: 09
                      +1
                      I am guided by information from the Navy. They said that there were no purchases of ZM-54.
                      I don’t refuse anything to our fleet. As it is. hi
                      ZY If there are links to supplies - I will be grateful.
                      China has a similar missile to the ZM-54. Here you are right.
                      1. hrych
                        hrych April 1 2021 19: 19
                        +2
                        The entire nomenclature of the Caliber has been adopted by the Russian Navy, as well as India, Vietnam and China, I forgot to mention Algeria. The ZM-14 simply had combat use, the ZM-54, unfortunately, was not used in battle, but what years it was. All information on the Caliber without "E" is classified and if someone told you something from the naval, then into the sump and into the water wassat
                      2. Alex777
                        Alex777 April 1 2021 19: 31
                        +1
                        The entire nomenclature of the Caliber has been adopted by the Navy

                        The "answer" is still being tested. wink
                        All information on Caliber without "E" is classified

                        Secrets means secrets ... bully
                        I can only repeat my opinion:
                        1. "Onyx" is a good rocket.
                        2. 3M-54 is a good rocket.
                        But it makes no sense to produce them in large quantities: both Aster and Sea Ceptor are able to intercept them.
                        Therefore, Zircon is our everything. hi
                      3. hrych
                        hrych April 1 2021 19: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Secrets means secrets ...

                        So if they write that, I am not to blame. We learned about the Dagger when he was put on experimental combat duty, and that Zircon with a ramjet engine was only on test frames. As for the anti-ship missiles, which is good, the GOS is similar, the algorithms are worked out, change the airframe and go ahead. A little bit, a flock, etc. is our theme.
                      4. Alex777
                        Alex777 April 1 2021 19: 45
                        0
                        So I'm only "for" when they talk about what has been done, and not about plans to do something there. drinks
                      5. hrych
                        hrych April 1 2021 19: 59
                        +2
                        And I am glad for surprises, especially when Prez, with a contented m ... expression, "partners" talks about our achievements. Then the stages of the terminally ill begin (Kübler-Ross model). Denial - Anger - Trade - Depression - Humility. "Partners" are already moving from trade to depression wassat These are our and former irresponsible fellow citizens all stuck from denial to anger wassat
                      6. Alex777
                        Alex777 April 1 2021 22: 36
                        +1
                        And I am glad for surprises, especially when Prez, with a contented m ... expression, "partners" talks about our achievements.

                        So I am about the same:
                        So I'm only "for" when they talk about what has been done
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock April 1 2021 11: 46
    0
    Quote: Zaurbek
    And how does Lada differ from Varshavyanka? Except VNEU.

    Yes, as a bum, just VNEU it does not differ. She's dumb there too.
    And so the dimensions are smaller, and the electric motor is different, and some of the equipment seems to be newer.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 1 2021 19: 01
      0
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      and some of the equipment seems to be newer.
      AHA, as much as 70%!
      "Kronstadt" was completed according to an adjusted project, with the elimination of the deficiencies of the head body revealed in the sea. In terms of improvements - improved: control system for ship technical means and navigation complex. Introduced modern electronics, ASBU. The living quarters, where the crew, the wardroom and the galley are located, have been corrected. Retractable devices, shaft line shock absorbers have been improved. The main propeller electric motor SED-1 (developed by NII EFA) has been replaced with a more advanced one from JSC Electrosila. It is also made on permanent magnets, like the German Siemens Permasyn.
      On the 677th project, the first digital integrated system was installed, built using modern network technologies of increased reliability "Lithium", the first domestic inertial navigation complex for the submarine "Apassionata", the first highly automated miniature communications complex "Distance", the periscope complex "Parus-98" of non-penetrating type , DC diesel generators, nitrogen fire extinguishing system. The noise level of the submarine, according to various estimates, is about 50% lower than that of the Project 877 submarines.
      The coefficient of equipment renewal in the submarine, laid down in its design, reaches 70%.

      For the low noise level of the submarine pr. 877, the Western military nicknamed the "Black Hole". Tests of the "St. Petersburg" showed: the noise level of the 677 project (according to the calculations of the designers) is 4-5 times less, even than that of the submarine of pr.636.
      Taking into account the increased secrecy of the "Lada" ("which the enemy does not see and does not hear"), our submarine can be called "Invisible", - said V. Chirkov, chief adviser to the USC president.
      BUT! This is the CHIRKOV who, being the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, declared that the Navy did not need a boat with new brains, but on the energy of the Second World War. BUT ! how views change if you are sitting in a warm comfortable chair of the Chief Adviser to the President of the USC ... So don't believe after that the classics of ML that "social existence determines consciousness!" laughing
  • URAL72
    URAL72 April 1 2021 11: 57
    +3
    Yes, in general, everyone. This is a new project. The crew is significantly reduced. In terms of armament, nothing more - the Varshavyanka was re-armed, incl. KR. All equipment, including the SAC, is new. Noise, magnetic field, thermal footprint below. The smaller size allows even "skerry" along the skerries, to walk in shallower depths. It would be transferred to Sormovo, the atoms are losing their competence. But the main difference is still not admitted. Let's wait for this VNEU ...
    1. Grits
      Grits April 1 2021 15: 17
      +1
      Quote: URAL72
      It would be transferred to Sormovo, the atoms are losing competence

      This is a good idea. unloading the main capacities a little will also not hurt
  • Eldorado
    Eldorado April 1 2021 12: 03
    +3
    Less noise, new electronics, new GAK, towed GAS, new electric motor, new diesel engines (in the future VNEU).
    1. V.I.P.
      V.I.P. April 2 2021 14: 06
      0
      Is there a towed GUS for sure? Is there something that can be fired back to fight torpedoes?
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa April 2 2021 10: 24
    0
    Electric propulsion is complete, despite the absence of VNEU, for example. Other equipment composition.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak April 1 2021 11: 48
    +1
    I do not understand a little: how so - the contract has been signed, but since there is no air-independent engine to build until we will ... But how, if it appears, it must also be inscribed in the compartment, and something will definitely be wrong, and there will be improvements ...
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 1 2021 11: 59
      -1
      If everything is new there, then without VNEU it is necessary to run in everything else .... Should we wait for VNEU.? There are also options with Castable batteries ...... in terms of operating time, they look good.
      1. mark1
        mark1 April 1 2021 12: 09
        +3
        Quote: Zaurbek
        options with Castable batteries ......

        There is that is, but where can we get them (and at a democratic price!)? Of course, I assumed, not long ago, that Chubais did not ruin everything and could leave us some kind of inheritance, but apparently I was wrong, given the number of crammed minuses.
  • musorg
    musorg April 1 2021 12: 24
    +1
    The main thing is not where, but when and then?
  • rudolff
    rudolff April 1 2021 12: 48
    +4
    The degree of novelty ruined this project. If implemented in stages, blocks, sub-series, counting on a large series, it would turn out to be a good modern ship. And so ... Overestimated their strengths and capabilities. Dancing with tambourines, experimental operation of the head must be stopped, enough disgrace. Albeit with operating restrictions, but include in the combat strength of the fleet. You can leave in the Baltic. We have a complete submarine there ... oops, at least there will be something. Both serials are there as well.
    1. Mooh
      Mooh April 1 2021 13: 46
      +1
      There is not only the degree of novelty, but also the customer distinguished himself for all the money. He wanted to become the queen of the sea, then a white swan.
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 1 2021 14: 11
      +1
      And ruined for 30 years ..
      1. rudolff
        rudolff April 1 2021 15: 08
        +2
        I understand your sarcasm, but the problem is that since the beginning of work on the Lada project, as well as on the Ash project, we have not been able to move forward in any technologies. Somewhere they froze in place, and somewhere they degraded. Therefore, what seemed quite achievable in the 80-90s turned out to be too tough in the 2000s. If only not in a highly illustrated form. For example, in terms of VNEU, we were once world leaders. We had not only installations, but also working projects of ships with them and the ships themselves. These are closed-cycle diesel engines, gas turbines or Walter engines, and compact nuclear power plants. And by the end of the 80s, the state and VNEU successfully passed at the EHG. After 30 years, we signed our own powerlessness to at least repeat what had already been created.
        1. agond
          agond April 1 2021 16: 41
          0
          The best VNEU is a small turbine (one or two) at the inlet of pure ethyl alcohol and oxygen at the outlet of pure carbon dioxide and water, water can be pumped overboard immediately, and the gas can be liquefied again and stored on the boat, by the way, they can blow through the tanks, having previously evaporated, which will reduce the number of cylinders for compressed air, in a critical situation, you can even immediately blow the products of combustion of alcohol in oxygen by burning alcohol not in a turbine, but in a special chamber.
          Alcohol VNEU should be a single power plant both for running under water and on the surface, of course there should be batteries, by the way, the auxiliary generator with an internal combustion engine should also be on alcohol., The fuel should be the same, this will simplify the design of the boat and its logistics,, store liquid oxygen in a special container installed, for example, at the place of removed running diesel engines.
          Thus, we see that there is nothing particularly complicated in VNEU, all technologies have long been known there would be a desire.
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock April 1 2021 19: 23
            +1
            Quote: agond
            , store liquid oxygen in

            When I read the stock of liquid oxygen on board, I shudder.
            And yes, why alcohol? If there is oxygen, why is it impossible to supply it to an ordinary diesel engine and burn ordinary kerosene?
            IMHO all these games with supposedly VNEU are time to finish, this is already a skipped stage, you need to make normal batteries.
            1. rudolff
              rudolff April 1 2021 20: 30
              0
              We have already gone through this. Project A615 with a single closed-cycle diesel engine. They called it a lighter. There is infa in the internet, you can read it.
              It is not necessary to keep a supply of oxygen on board. It can be overboard. In the inter-hull or superstructure of a light hull.
              It is at the words "normal batteries" on the Northern Fleet that they shudder. After the fire on Losharik. We do not have normal LIABs and it is not known when they will be.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 April 1 2021 20: 35
    0
    What about the submarine in the Baltic? some kind of stupidity there, the depths are scanty and the straits are narrow, on the Northern Fleet it is more needed
    1. agond
      agond April 1 2021 22: 02
      0
      quote = Jacket in stock] If there is oxygen, why can't you supply it to an ordinary diesel engine and burn ordinary kerosene? [/ quote]
      It must be understood that it is not liquid oxygen that is the main source of danger on a boat, but a diesel engine running on it, and then a diesel engine is heavy, noisy, bulky, slow-speed and requires the same low-speed generator, it cannot be reliably sealed and therefore it is very dangerous for working with pure oxygen. oil and diesel fuel stains constantly appear in it, and a turbine of the same power, due to its high speed, will be at least ten times lighter, and its high-speed generator will be just as light and small, and reliable sealing of turbines has long been mastered. by the way, the suspension of the turbine shaft on air and on a magnetic cushion has been known for a long time, and therefore it may not make any noise at all and at the same time shine with stainless steel
      Why exactly alcohol, a turbine on alcohol is much easier than on diesel fuel, since the temperature in it will be lower and the combustion products are clean and simple, there are no impurities, only water and carbon dioxide, which are easy to liquefy
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 April 1 2021 22: 40
        0
        Quote: agond
        an alcohol turbine is much simpler than diesel fuel, since the temperature in it will be lower and the combustion products are clean and simple,

        firstly, oxygen is not supplied to the turbine at all, it burns in the combustion chamber, and water and co2 are already flowing into the turbine, it will not be cleaner if you have kerosene, then there will be the same exhaust as with air blast, except for NOX, which appear rather not from nitrogen how much from temperature processes, while you should have in the go that with oxygen blast the temperature will rise sharply, and the first stages of the turbine may not withstand, austenite is also not a ceramic .. alcohol is expensive in general, you can also burn glucose ... or if you are ecology, then you can first clean kerosene or it is banal to burn gas
        1. agond
          agond April 2 2021 10: 06
          0
          1 Ordinary kerosene cannot be used by VNEU without deep cleaning
          it has impurities of sulfur, nitrogen and oxygen compounds, which are more difficult to liquefy at the outlet than pure CO2
          2 for reference, when burning diesel fuel, kerosene, soot is formed, then what should VNEU do with it?
          3 if the stoichiometric ratio is changed and more oxygen is added, then unreacted gaseous oxygen will be present at the outlet, then what should VNEU do with it? , absorb or excrete and liquefy back? Why this extra hassle on the boat?
          4 as it was rightly noted, the combustion of any fuel in pure oxygen gives too high a temperature, but alcohol, unlike diesel fuel, dissolves in water, that is, in a turbine, not pure alcohol, but DILUTED with water, should be burned, this will significantly lower the temperature
          5, the stoichiometric ratio should be shifted towards an increase in the proportion of fuel in the mixture, the alcohol unburned in the turbine can either be isolated (distilled) or pumped overboard in a mixture with water.
          Conclusion, it seems that there is no alternative to ethyl alcohol in the chemical VNEU.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 April 2 2021 11: 04
            0
            Quote: agond
            Alcohol diluted with water,

            in general, I understand your reasoning, but also the water is nowhere to take it is salty
            1. agond
              agond April 2 2021 20: 01
              +1
              Quote: vladimir1155
              but also the water is nowhere to take it is salty

              Why salty if the combustion reaction is C2H5OH + 3O2 ---> 2CO2 + 3H2O,
              water will be a product of combustion, like CO2, both will have to be collected for some time and stored on the boat, if only in order not to violate zero buoyancy
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 April 2 2021 21: 54
                0
                Quote: agond
                like CO2,

                dry ice on a boat is cool ... I can't imagine the technology yet ...
                1. agond
                  agond April 3 2021 20: 48
                  0
                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  dry ice on a boat is cool ... I can't imagine the technology yet ...

                  Liquid carbon dioxide can be stored for an unlimited time in black cylinders at temperatures up to + 31 * С
                  Here it is appropriate to recall the boats of the project 615 with a diesel engine running on oxygen, nicknamed lighters, as many as 30 pieces of them were built (a vivid example of a bad design idea), on a boat with a surface 406t and an underwater 504t displacement there were as many as 3 diesels, and three propellers !!!, a supply of liquid only 8.5 tons of oxygen plus 15 tons of lime absorber of exhaust gases and 23 tons of diesel fuel, nevertheless, the supply of oxygen was enough for 100 hours of travel at a speed of 3.5 knots. Now imagine that instead of diesel fuel there would be alcohol, instead of three hefty diesel engines, 2 light carburetor engines of the same power converted to alcohol, instead of a 15 ton chemical absorber and an 8.5 ton oxygen tank, there would be a 2.7 times larger tank, then the cruising range for alcohol this boat would be
                  100h x 2.7 x 3.5 knots / h = 945 miles, that is, the boat could cover 11 km without surfacing in 1750 days and (the state of the art of the sixties of the last century), that is. , indicators and today are not too lazy