Military Review

How Rommel defeated the British in Cyrenaica

90
How Rommel defeated the British in Cyrenaica
Tanks Pz.Kpfw.III and Pz.Kpfw.II of the 5th Panzer Division of the African Corps of the Wehrmacht at the parade in Tripoli. March 1941


Catastrophe of the Italian army


In December 1940 - January 1941, the British inflicted a terrible defeat on the superior forces of the Italian army in Libya (Operation Compass. Catastrophe of the Italian army in North Africa). The Italians lost all previously captured positions, a significant part of Cyrenaica, almost the entire army was defeated and taken prisoner (150 thousand soldiers out of 115 thousand were captured). The remnants of the Italian troops were completely demoralized, lost most of their heavy weapons and could not even successfully defend themselves.

However, the British did not complete the defeat of the Italian forces in North Africa and did not take Tripoli. This was due to several reasons:

1) the British at first simply did not realize the scale of their victory and the fact that the enemy had already been destroyed, and you can simply complete the march - to occupy Tripoli;
2) the small number of the British contingent in North Africa, after the defeat of the enemy, one division was removed from the front;
3) the situation in Greece, London decided to help the Greeks and abandon a further offensive in Libya.

As a result, the Italian army escaped complete defeat. And the Italians retained their foothold in North Africa.

Italy urgently needed to strengthen the defense of Tripoli. But in Italy itself there were no large combat-ready reserves equipped with modern weapons and technology to radically change the situation on the Libyan front. In addition, the Italians were defeated both in East Africa, where they were crushed by the British in alliance with the Ethiopian rebels, and in the Balkans, where there was a threat that the Greeks would throw the enemy into the sea from the territory of Albania. The Italian fleet also suffered serious losses. In order to prevent a military-political catastrophe of his main ally and a complete loss of positions in the Mediterranean, Hitler was forced to intervene.


German trucks Opel Blitz and cars of the Wehrmacht Afrika Korps in the port of Tripoli.
In the foreground is the off-road vehicle Voikswagenle.gl. Pkw-K1 Typ 82 Kfz1 "Kubelwagen". February 1941


Unloading a German tank Pz.Kpfw. III in the port of Tripoli

Operation "Sunflower"


At first, the Fuhrer wanted to send a small detachment to Africa in order to restore the combat capability of the Italian army. However, it quickly became clear that one brigade would not be enough to keep Tripolitania. Therefore, the German Headquarters decided to form the Africa Expeditionary Force, consisting of two divisions (5th Light Division - later renamed 21st Panzer, and 15th Panzer Division) under the command of General Erwin Rommel. To support it from the air, the 10th Air Corps was sent to Sicily. Also, two new Italian divisions were sent to Libya - a tank and an infantry. The Italian army was led (instead of Marshal Graziani, who was dismissed and put on trial) by the commander of the 5th Army, General Gariboldi.

Rommel distinguished himself during the French campaign, bravely and successfully commanding the 7th Panzer Division. On February 6, 1941, Rommel was received by Hitler and Brauchitsch. He was instructed to prevent the Italians from abandoning their positions at El Ageila (Sidra Bay) and to contain the enemy until the arrival of the 15th Division at the end of May. On February 11, the German general arrived in Rome, where he met with the Italian commanders, and on the same day flew to the headquarters of the 10th air corps. There Rommel demanded active action aviation against the enemy base in Benghazi. The next day, the German general arrived in Tripoli, where he met with Gariboldi. On February 14, units of the 5th light division of General Streich began to arrive in Tripoli. Given the difficult situation of the Italian troops, the German units immediately began to be transferred to Sirte, closer to the front line. The 5th division had over 190 tanks and armored vehicles (including 73 newest T-3 tanks and 20 T-4 tanks).

Rommel saw that the Italians were completely morally depressed. There was a lull at the front, but the troops were entirely under the impression of previous crushing defeats. He decided to bring the allies out of their state of apathy and launch an offensive with limited goals before the arrival of the 15th division already at the end of March. Although the Italian command believed that it was impossible to act actively until the end of May, until the entire German corps was in Libya. However, the German commander understood that passive defense did not give any prospects for maintaining positions in North Africa. He wanted to get ahead of the enemy, before the British pulled up reinforcements, and move as far as possible.


Unloading of German equipment in the port of Tripoli. In the foreground is the PzKpfw III Ausf G tank

Situation at the front


Rommel's decision turned out to be correct. By this time, the combat effectiveness of the British grouping - 1 infantry and 1 armored division, 1 infantry brigade and other units (about 40 thousand people in total, 300 tanks), had decreased. The 6th Australian Division, which had extensive combat experience, was sent to Greece, it was replaced by the unexploded 9th Australian Division. The 7th Armored Division was withdrawn to rest and replenishment in Egypt, it was replaced by the 2nd Panzer Division. She also had less combat capability, part of her fleet were captured Italian tanks, which had many shortcomings. German intelligence discovered that the British had two brigades of the 2nd Panzer Division at El Ageila, but they were divided into detachments and scattered on a wide front. The main forces of the 9th division were stationed in the Benghazi area.

Also, the British experienced problems in the supply of troops. A large number of vehicles were sent to Greece. Therefore, the main role in the supply was played by sea transports. And the supply base was Tobruk, from which the troops at the front were 500 km away. The fact is that from the moment the 10th Aviation Corps arrived, the Germans dominated the air. Therefore, the use of Benghazi as a supply base, from which aviation and anti-aircraft artillery was removed (also sent to Greece), had to be abandoned.

Thus, now the British found themselves in the role of Italians. First, their battle formations were stretched, and the Germans could concentrate their forces and strike a strong blow at a weak point. In addition, the British grouping in Libya was weakened by the transfer of troops to Greece. Second, the British were now experiencing supply problems. The Germans dominated the air. Third, British intelligence overslept the enemy's offensive preparations.


At the beginning of March 1941, the British commander Wavell did not consider his position to be threatening. He was aware of the arrival of two Italian divisions and one German formation, the number of which the British estimated as one reinforced panzer regiment. These forces, in the opinion of the British command, would be sufficient at most to push the enemy back to Agedabia. The British did not count on breaking through the enemy to Benghazi. Also, the British believed that it would take at least two months to transport two German divisions to Tripoli. After that, the possibilities of the port of Tripoli as a supply base will be exhausted. In addition, the British did not expect the enemy to launch an offensive during the hot season. Therefore, it is not worth waiting for the offensive of the Italian-German troops until the end of summer. It is possible that active actions fleet and aviation in the Mediterranean (convoy attacks) will hold back the enemy for longer. At the end of March, Wavell, having received new information, was no longer complacent. However, he retained the hope that the enemy could be contained for several months, at which time the situation in the Balkans would improve. Or they will transfer reinforcements to Egypt.


Soldiers of the Australian division in Tobruk

The defeat of the enemy and the fall of Benghazi


Rommel's main striking forces were the 5th Light Division and the Italian Ariete Panzer Division. The local operation at the end of March 1941, thanks to a successful local situation and a bold attack, was successful. One British tank brigade was taken by surprise and destroyed. German aerial reconnaissance confirmed the enemy's flight to Agedabia. Rommel, who initially planned to conduct a limited operation, decided to seize the opportunity and develop an offensive on Agedabia. This strike was also successful. The British rolled back in the direction of Benghazi.

The apparent weakness of the enemy and his desire to avoid a decisive battle led the German commander to the bold idea of ​​recapturing the whole of Cyrenaica. At the same time, Rommel fell out with the Italian command (formally, he was subordinate to the Italian commander-in-chief). Gariboldi, referring to the instructions of Rome, proposed to immediately go on the defensive. However, the German general believed quite rightly - the fleeing enemy must be smashed, not allowed to recover, gain a foothold and bring up reinforcements. It was necessary to pursue the retreating enemy.

On April 4, 1941, the Germans occupied Benghazi without a fight. At this time, the British Panzer Division was in the desert area between Zawiet Msus and El Mekili, while the Australians were retreating to Derna. To destroy the enemy, Rommel sent the 5th division to Mekili, part of the forces to Zaviet-Msus. The Italians walked along the coast. Both sides experienced problems. The Germans, not yet accustomed to the desert, strayed from the right direction, strayed, sandstorms separated the columns, lack of fuel slowed down the troops. But the British had similar problems. Control over British forces was disrupted. British tanks were running low on fuel. Further setbacks and successful German attacks exacerbated the confusion. The fighting continued until April 8th.

The main forces of the Australian division managed to escape along the coastal highway. However, the second brigade of the 2nd Panzer Division, practically without fuel, retreated to Derna, where it was surrounded. On April 7, the brigade surrendered, 6 British generals were captured, including Lieutenant Generals Richard O'Connor and Philip Nimes (the new military governor of Cyrenaica). In El Mekili, Italian-German forces blockaded the headquarters of the 2nd Armored Division, an Indian motorized brigade hastily transferred to help from Tobruk, and other individual units. After unsuccessful attempts to break through, on April 8, the commander of the 2nd Panzer Division, Major General Michael Gambier-Perry, surrendered. 2700 people were taken prisoner.


Erwin Rommel (front center) and Johannes Streich (right) in Tripoli meeting with Italian commander-in-chief Italo Gariboldi and other senior officers


German soldiers inspect British equipment abandoned in El Mekili. April 1941

Siege of Tobruk


As a result, in addition to the hastily assembled small forces on the Libyan-Egyptian border, the British had at their disposal only the 9th Australian Division, which had successfully retreated to Tobruk (which included the 20th and 26th Infantry Brigades, least affected by the retreat from Western Cyrenaica, and the 20th and recently arrived from Egypt 18th Infantry Brigades) and the 7th Panzer Division stationed in Egypt.

The British command decided to concentrate its main forces in Tobruk. The city was turned into a fortified area by the Italians and could fight under siege. Tobruk closed the main coastal highway, could shackle the Italian-German army and prevent it from breaking into Egypt. The supply of the encircled troops could be carried out by sea. Therefore, strong reinforcements were transferred to Tobruk.

On April 10, 1941, the Germans reached Tobruk and on the 11th surrounded the port city. It was not possible to take the well-fortified city on the move (attack on April 13-14). His siege began. Rommel directed the moving parts towards Bardia. On April 12, Italian-German troops entered Bardia, on April 15 they occupied Sidi-Omar, Es-Sallum, the Halfaya pass, the Jarabub oasis. At this point, their progress stopped.

Thus, the bold and unexpected for the British attack of Rommel's relatively small forces was crowned with complete success (despite the Italians' fears and their reluctance to attack. The Italian-German troops recaptured Cyrenaica, occupied Benghazi, besieged Tobruk and reached the Egyptian border. Rommel could not develop the offensive, The forces were small, both sides went on the defensive to build up their forces and attack again. Rommel planned to take Tobruk and strike at Egypt, the British - to release Tobruk.

On April 30, the Germans stormed Tobruk again, but the operation was unsuccessful. Mutual furious but unsuccessful attacks (the Germans attacked, the British counterattacked to regain their lost positions) continued until May 4. The Australians fought fiercely, relying on powerful fortifications. Despite air raids, mining of the port and approaches to it, everything needed from Alexandria constantly arrived in Tobruk by sea. The losses of the British ships eventually became so heavy that they were abandoned. However, fast messengers and destroyers still went to Tobruk and brought all the necessary supplies. Heavy losses of the Italian divisions and the 5th German division convinced the Italian-German command of the impossibility of a successful assault in the near future. The stake was made on the exhaustion of the enemy and the arrival of strong reinforcements.

On the border of Libya and Egypt, the British launched a limited offensive on May 15 to improve their positions for a future breakthrough to Tobruk. The British advanced as far as Es Sallum and Ridotta Capuzzo. Rommel responded immediately, and two days later recaptured the British-occupied strongholds. The British only held the Halfaya pass. This was the only place for tanks to cross the mountains. This passage was essential for the control of the area. On May 27, the Germans recaptured the pass. The British attacked again, but without success.

This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated. If Rommel were immediately given not one corps, but an army and a whole air army, then he would have every chance to seize not only Cyrenaica, but also Egypt with a swift and powerful onslaught, to intercept the Suez Canal, the most important communication of the British Empire. This would sharply worsen the military-strategic, naval, air and economic positions of England. The Germans and Italians received the most important bridgehead in the region, land, sea and air bases. After the capture of the Balkans (Yugoslavia and Greece) and the abandonment of the Russian campaign, Hitler could transfer more troops to Africa. Conduct a number of operations in the Mediterranean (Malta, Gibraltar). Develop an offensive against Palestine, then Mesopotamia, Iran and India. The Italians, with the support of the Germans, got the opportunity to take revenge in East Africa. Hitler gave London check and checkmate.


German medium and light tanks from the 5th Panzer Regiment of the 5th Light Armored Division on Tripoli Street before the parade


A British army patrol near the cathedral in Tobruk, besieged by German-Italian forces. April 1941


Lieutenant General Erwin Rommel with 15th Panzer Division between Tobruk and Sidi Omar, Libya. Rommel drives an average single off-road vehicle (mittelschwerer geländegängiger PKW, Typ 40). May 1941
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  1. apro
    apro April 1 2021 03: 47
    +3
    Even an experienced and capable commander is not able to solve strategic tasks without sufficient forces, and especially since he fought not only with the enemy but also with allies, forcing them to fight.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 1 2021 10: 30
      +8
      Quote: apro
      Even an experienced and capable commander is not able to solve strategic tasks without sufficient forces, and especially since he fought not only with the enemy but also with allies, forcing them to fight.

      There, both sides fought on two fronts. The Germans had Italians, the English British - London. In February 1941, O'Connor defeated the Italians and could take Tripoli - and then an order comes from London: stop the offensive, send two infantry divisions and one tank brigade to Greece. Rommel begins to unload in the port, which was kindly left to the Italians.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 11: 44
        -3
        Quote: Alexey RA
        the British have London.

        And Rommel had - Berlin) No specifics.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 1 2021 16: 00
          +7
          Well, in London, something like this imagined the war between the 8th Army and DAK. good
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 1 2021 16: 40
            +5
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Well, in London, something like this imagined the war between the 8th Army and DAK.

            In London, a lot of things ... represented. smile

            A rail, a blanket, a bottle of gasoline - everything you need to organize a PTO. belay
            1. Catfish
              Catfish April 1 2021 16: 45
              +6
              Or the use of small rodents to combat predators. wink

              Wondering what the Desert Fox ferret can do?
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 April 1 2021 13: 04
      +5
      Quote: apro
      but also allies. forcing them to fight.

      Rommel had a hard time with the Italians only at the beginning.
      then the Italians became his reliable support, especially the infantry.
      his main problem was the archaic structure of the Italian army and the very backward many types of weapons.
      1. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth April 2 2021 14: 43
        +2
        I heard such an anecdote.
        Hitler is reported:
        “My Fuhrer, the Italians have entered the war.
        - Don't be scared, put up a division against them.
        - Hold on, my Fuhrer, the Italians are on our side.
        - Damn it, urgently send the corps to the rescue.
        laughing
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 April 2 2021 14: 50
          +1
          it was about hungary - it doesn't matter which side it will be on - to contain or defend it will be necessary to allocate 3 divisions
  2. Far B
    Far B April 1 2021 04: 17
    +2
    In order to prevent a military-political catastrophe of his main ally and a complete loss of positions in the Mediterranean, Hitler was forced to intervene
    The case when they say that with such friends no enemies are needed. The Italians, in the First, in the Second World, snatched from everyone who came across on the way. And in the meantime, in Ethiopia, they managed to get it from the mustals. Malatsy!
    Shl. They play football better. It would be better just to do it.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik April 1 2021 06: 15
      +4
      In the thirties of the last century, when the Italian national team became the world champion, naturalized Latinos played for it. smile
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 07: 36
        +2
        Quote: parusnik
        In the thirties of the last century, when the Italian national team became the world champion, naturalized Latinos played for it. smile

        Well, in East Africa, they were "played" mainly by askari, dubats and other natives))

  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. April 1 2021 04: 42
    +3
    Heat, endless dust, sand ... there is sand all around ... war in those conditions is also not heaven.
    Rommel fought with the meager resources that Hitler allocated to him ... of course a lucky general could have done better.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 1 2021 10: 48
      +6
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Rommel fought with the meager resources that Hitler allocated to him ... of course a lucky general could have done better.

      Rommel fought with 1500-2500 tons of supplies per day in African ports. Let me remind you that to supply a multiple of the 6th Army in Stalingrad, it was estimated that 1200 tons per day were required.
      The paucity of Rommel's resources is a consequence of disgusting logistics - most of what was delivered to the ports was devoured by further delivery by road on the shoulder right from Tripoli.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 11: 57
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Rommel fought with 1500-2500 tons of supplies per day in African ports.

        The supply was not so methodical. From October to December 1941 there was not a single ship, as far as I remember. In 1942, the first convoy arrived in April, with supplies for a month. If it were not for the fatty trophies in Tobruk, it would be generally sad.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The paucity of Rommel's resources is a consequence of disgusting logistics - most of what was delivered to the ports was devoured by further delivery by road on the shoulder right from Tripoli.

        And with the capture of Tobruk, little has changed, since its port infrastructure was not designed for large cargo volumes. Therefore, Benghazi remained, and land communications never diminished.
        1. Liam
          Liam April 1 2021 12: 32
          +6
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          From October to December 1941 there was not a single ship, as far as I remember

          It is not.


          These are the statistics of the convoys from June to November 1941. Horizontally, the first column - those who left the Italian. ports, the second - reaching Libya. And the third -%.
          Vertically, the first column is the soldiers delivered, the second is fuel, and further on different types of materials
        2. Liam
          Liam April 1 2021 12: 43
          +7
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          ... In 1942, the first convoy arrived in April, with supplies for a month.

          Why's that? The beginning of 42 was a black period for the British. Their Mediterranean fleet was practically destroyed, left without aircraft carriers, all three battleships were sunk, Force K practically ceased to exist on mines, Malta was barely breathing
        3. Liam
          Liam April 1 2021 12: 55
          +5
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

          The supply was not so methodical.

          There is a monthly supply. Red is the percentage that did not reach Libya
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 12: 59
            +1
            Well, convinced.
            1. Liam
              Liam April 1 2021 13: 04
              +5
              In the Russian part of the Internet, knowledge about this theater of operations is an exclusively German point of view. And the Germans are not alien to anything human: all the successes are the merit of Rommel, all the failures are poorly supplied by the Italians. Well, of course, the Italian fleet-boy is inept for whipping with brits.
              Naturally, everything is not so black and white. Until the beginning of 43, the supply of Libya was satisfactory without a doubt.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA April 1 2021 15: 14
                +6
                Quote: Liam
                In the Russian part of the Internet, knowledge about this theater of operations is an exclusively German point of view. And the Germans are not alien to anything human: all the successes are the merit of Rommel, all the failures are poorly supplied by the Italians.

                That's for sure. At one time, the appendices to Bragadin with statistics on traffic to Africa came as a shock to me personally - until 1943, "clumsy Italians" delivered 50-70 thousand tons of cargo a month.
        4. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 1 2021 15: 11
          +4
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          The supply was not so methodical. From October to December 1941 there was not a single ship, as far as I remember. In 1942, the first convoy arrived in April, with supplies for a month. If it were not for the fatty trophies in Tobruk, it would be generally sad.

          This is if you look at the German memoirs. If we take the Italians (specifically, Bragadin), the German supply complaints appear in a completely different light. smile
          In the second half of 1941 and the first half of 1942, the Italians delivered 60-70 thousand tons of cargo to the ports of Africa every month.
          Source: Battle of the Mediterranean. The look of the vanquished. MA Bragadin "The Italian Fleet in the Second World War". Applications.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik April 1 2021 06: 17
    +4
    Articles, by the corporation, are baked like pancakes every day. smile
  5. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 07: 07
    +9
    Ehm ... Well, while the "Samsonov" artel retells Wikipedia and a little Karel - it's still more or less bearable. But then an idiotic summary follows and ... It's as if a lecturer in a country club after a boring lecture on the topic "The influence of magnetic anomalies on the sex life of an earthworm" in the finale suddenly singing loudly ..... sorry, loudly ruined the air. In general, all alternatives and crypto historians are divided into smart and "Samson" ones.
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 1 2021 07: 25
    +1
    ... If Rommel were immediately given not one corps, but an army and a whole air army, then he would have every chance to seize not only Cyrenaica, but also Egypt with a swift and powerful onslaught, to intercept the Suez Canal, the most important communication of the British Empire. This would sharply worsen the military-strategic, naval, air and economic positions of England. The Germans and Italians received the most important bridgehead in the region, land, sea and air bases. After the capture of the Balkans (Yugoslavia and Greece) and the abandonment of the Russian campaign, Hitler could transfer more troops to Africa. Carry out a number of operations in the Mediterranean (Malta, Gibraltar). Develop an offensive against Palestine, then Mesopotamia, Iran and India. The Italians, with the support of the Germans, got the opportunity to take revenge in East Africa. Hitler gave London check and checkmate.

    Shah, but not checkmate: India was not something that England could not survive without.

    And to conquer India and to hold it, you need huge resources and time, which Hitler needs in Europe: there was an unconquered powerful USSR and leaving it on the flank would be foolish.

    Therefore, the campaign against Russia was predetermined.

    And at the same time it is good that hundreds of Hitler's newest tanks and mussolins fought and died in Africa, and did not advance on Smolensk.
    1. House 25 Sq. 380
      House 25 Sq. 380 5 May 2021 16: 22
      0
      Why conquer India? As the Japanese experience has shown, the Indians could be offered "to take as much sovereignty as they can keep" (c)
      And even despite the Japanese reputation and their miserable forces on the Burmese front, many Indians responded ...
  7. knn54
    knn54 April 1 2021 07: 33
    +2
    -This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated.
    Anyone who has read Mein Kampf knows this "truth".
    Once, in a conversation with the generals (in the same period of time), Hitler compared himself to a shooter who had only one cartridge left, and he chose Russia.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 April 1 2021 07: 58
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      -This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated.
      Anyone who has read Mein Kampf knows this "truth".
      Once, in a conversation with the generals (in the same period of time), Hitler compared himself to a shooter who had only one cartridge left, and he chose Russia.

      So you wanted to shoot yourself? Indeed, abnormal.
      1. parma
        parma April 1 2021 08: 49
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        Quote: knn54
        -This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated.
        Anyone who has read Mein Kampf knows this "truth".
        Once, in a conversation with the generals (in the same period of time), Hitler compared himself to a shooter who had only one cartridge left, and he chose Russia.

        So you wanted to shoot yourself? Indeed, abnormal.

        The Fuhrer did not have many chances, due to at least economic reasons (the production volumes of the USSR, the USA and the World Bank are an order of magnitude greater than that of the OSI countries) on which side of the USA it was so clear from the very beginning that the brits would not go to peace, it was also clear, that the USSR is preparing as much as possible and its entry into the war (on the side of the Britons or on its own) is a matter of time (the United States and Britain are far away, and the Nazi beast is outside the door) .. thus, of the three main players of the anti-Hitler coalition, the Fuhrer could only really reach one. .. the direction of the blow was incredibly predictable ...
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 April 1 2021 16: 28
          0
          Quote: parma
          Quote: Doliva63
          Quote: knn54
          -This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated.
          Anyone who has read Mein Kampf knows this "truth".
          Once, in a conversation with the generals (in the same period of time), Hitler compared himself to a shooter who had only one cartridge left, and he chose Russia.

          So you wanted to shoot yourself? Indeed, abnormal.

          The Fuhrer did not have many chances, due to at least economic reasons (the production volumes of the USSR, the USA and the World Bank are an order of magnitude greater than that of the OSI countries) on which side of the USA it was so clear from the very beginning that the brits would not go to peace, it was also clear, that the USSR is preparing as much as possible and its entry into the war (on the side of the Britons or on its own) is a matter of time (the United States and Britain are far away, and the Nazi beast is outside the door) .. thus, of the three main players of the anti-Hitler coalition, the Fuhrer could only really reach one. .. the direction of the blow was incredibly predictable ...

          Well, I also meant that Hitler had no chance. In my mind, I would sit quietly, raise the economy of his "European Union", as China did, and then it would not be before the war.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 08: 25
      0
      Quote: knn54
      -This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated.

      Nonsense. Yes, Rommel's three-hundred-kilometer throw to Tobruk is certainly a brilliant extreme operation - in a couple of weeks he recaptured what Wavel took two months to do - and how did this tactical success end? Rommel ran into Tobruk.
      Quote: knn54
      Once, in a conversation with the generals (in the same period of time), Hitler compared himself to a shooter who had only one cartridge left, and he chose Russia.

      Well, yes, and at the beginning of the war, Hitler said that the Germans were fighting the war north of the Alps, and the Italians to the south, and it would be harmful to change it)
      1. chenia
        chenia April 1 2021 12: 50
        -1
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        in a couple of weeks he recaptured what Wavel took two months to do - and how did this tactical success end? Rommel ran into Tobruk.


        And what to expect from a corps-level operation - the surrender of Britain, the announcement of the last republic (the king becomes a monk) and the renunciation of colonies and dominions?
        Yes, there will be three such operations on the eastern front per day.

        For two years, the Britons fumbled with four German divisions (then they broke down), and already with the Yankees and the French, who had overturned them, they pressed on.

        And the Americans were right to put them on secondary roles later, both in Italy and in Normandy (despite their many years of combat experience) ..
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 12: 57
          -3
          Quote: chenia
          And what to expect from a corps-level operation - the surrender of Britain, the announcement of the last republic (the king becomes a monk) and the renunciation of colonies and dominions?

          According to Samsonov's logic, something like that comes out. It is he who draws this conclusion from the tactical and, frankly, insignificant victories of DAK.
          1. chenia
            chenia April 1 2021 13: 43
            +5
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            According to Samsonov's logic, something like that comes out. It is he who draws this conclusion from the tactical and, frankly, insignificant victories of DAK.


            ????? Have you read the article?

            And how to understand it
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            This operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done, if I really wanted England to be defeated.


            And this

            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            If Rommel were immediately given not one corps, but an army and a whole air army,


            Isn't that right?

            Well, Hess is already preparing the plane. And Dunkirk from the same opera.

            And the author's conclusion is quite logical.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 15: 46
              0
              Quote: chenia
              Have you read the article?

              Lord, come on - this is just a retelling of Wikipedia. And on the basis of one episode taken out of the context of the campaign, a conclusion is drawn about "Kuz'ka's mother" and a hypothetical victorious march to BV and beyond ?? Well, in November, as a result of the British offensive, Rommel lost a third of the DAK - let's grumble now that "if the British wanted, then ...."
              1. chenia
                chenia April 1 2021 20: 08
                +4
                Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                And on the basis of one episode taken out of the context of the campaign, a conclusion is drawn about "Kuz'ka's mother"
                \

                Ha! Yes, the British had nothing at all to shine if Hitler
                Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                really wanted England to be defeated.

                Four German divisions held the main forces of Britain for two years.
                Fact
                And try to argue!
  8. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko April 1 2021 08: 27
    +2
    And where did I read this before? Vicky, or what? Very familiar, but the conclusions are from Samsonov.
  9. Oleg Aviator
    Oleg Aviator April 1 2021 09: 10
    +3
    Silently. He took it and smashed it. Auchinleck was very upset
  10. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 09: 12
    0
    and the refusal of the Russian campaign, Hitler could transfer more troops to Africa.

    And, that is, if in November 1940 the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo axis would take place.Moscow?
    Otherwise, the Reich, which received a logistic hell and depletion of material and human resources in the Middle East theater, also receives a "third rejoicing" in the face of the USSR. Or does Samsonov believe that already before Persia, the Wehrmacht would have stamped vigorously and without hindrance would stick to the British yushka? Oh yes, there are also powerful allies there - Vichy in Syria / Lebanon, Rashid Ali in Iraq and a quarter of a million natives from the Italian colonial forces near the Red Sea. By the way, despite the most advantageous position in Eritrea and Somalia, the Italians had the maximum resources for conducting low-intensity combat operations for six months. That is, the Reich would again have to help "what I can" these losers?
    1. silberwolf88
      silberwolf88 April 1 2021 09: 43
      0
      only the USSR does not even need to add theoretically here ... Moscow could be neutral in the general distribution BUT with Hitler in a pair, definitely not ... the question in the 90s tried to exaggerate many "new" historians and others
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 10: 44
        +2
        Quote: silberwolf88
        only the USSR does not even need to add theoretically here ...

        Nothing is impossible in alternate history, dear colleague. And there are no sacred cows. It is built from top to bottom just on
        Quote: silberwolf88
        even theoretically

        I'm just trying to reason in the tone of the degenerate logic of the Samsonov artel with its fantasy about the Wehrmacht's triumphant march to India instead of the Eastern campaign. Low-level cryptohistors like the Samsonovs have been procrastinating this for a long time and with appetite - well, they have the right to fantasies. Particularly encouraging is the conclusion that some of Rommel's tactical successes in the secondary theater of operations allegedly demonstrate "what Hitler could have done with Britain if he wanted to." And what, really, this alternatively gifted supervises the "History" section of the VO?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 1 2021 22: 19
          +3
          It's right. The author has written more than once (several articles),
          that the constant and worst enemy of Russia is England.
          And the wars between Russia and Germany, sort of "historical mistakes"
          (and hints: "but if only together ...".).
          And this article is in the same context of alternative history.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 2 2021 07: 57
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            It's right. The author has written more than once (several articles),
            that the constant and worst enemy of Russia is England.
            And the wars between Russia and Germany, sort of "historical mistakes"
            (and hints: "but if only together ...".).

            Thats exactly what I mean. Artel "Samsonov" is still embarrassed to openly throw into the discussion field the thesis "And if the USSR had joined the Axis in 1940" in view of its obvious rejection by the audience, but visits are visible. Because pushing, sorry, bullshit, that in the case of a bright in its idiotic scenario of "Rommel's throw to Calcutta", the USSR would remain neutral and focused on the construction of western URs - this is, excuse me, sheer nonsense.
          2. chenia
            chenia April 2 2021 09: 51
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            It's right. The author has written more than once (several articles),
            that the constant and worst enemy of Russia is England.


            And what is the discrepancy?

            Quote: voyaka uh
            (and hints: "but if only together ...".).

            Happened, but not in this article. And from a different angle.
            It is precisely in it that Hitler with the British seriously and did not want to fight. And so he decided to rein in, so that the borzels would not be strong.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 2 2021 10: 26
              0
              Quote: chenia
              And so he decided to rein in, so that the borzels would not be strong.

              Sorry, but to reduce the Fuehrer's policy towards England to such a primitive formula is, to put it mildly, absurd.
              1. chenia
                chenia April 2 2021 10: 47
                0
                Didn't you understand the sarcasm? Happenes.

                Do you agree with this part?
                Quote: chenia
                Hitler was serious with the British and did not want to fight
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh April 2 2021 11: 59
                  +4
                  I didn’t want to and couldn’t - different things.
                  Because the British Air Force was stronger, and in 1940,
                  suffering heavy losses, they defeated the Luftwaffe.
                  Germany lost 1/3 bombers and 1/4 fighters
                  for a short time. And the British military's annual graduation
                  aircraft from 1940 to the end of the war was superior to the German.
                  Well, and the British surface fleet. He paralyzed the German.
                  Only German submarines were active and effective against the supply of Britain.
                  ----
                  But the ground forces of Germany were much stronger than the British and any
                  at all.
                  Especially the tank troops. Therefore, Hitler strove wherever he could, to carry
                  actions on land.
                  Hence, Africa and the attack on the USSR.
                2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 2 2021 12: 08
                  0
                  Quote: chenia
                  Do you agree with this part?
                  Quote: chenia
                  Hitler was serious with the British and did not want to fight

                  There is a kind of sweet childlike spontaneity in this phrase. "Seriously", "not seriously" ... War is an instrument of politics. In your opinion, it turns out that Hitler was a frivolous politician?
      2. bk0010
        bk0010 April 3 2021 12: 11
        0
        Quote: silberwolf88
        only the USSR does not even need to add theoretically here ..
        In 1940, England and France were about to attack the USSR. Hitler captured France about a month before the start of the bombing of Azerbaijan.
  11. Darkness
    Darkness April 1 2021 10: 32
    0
    SUFFICIENT STANDARD ARTICLE. And the pictures are cool.

    [Quote] [/ quote]
  12. Force multiplier
    Force multiplier April 1 2021 11: 15
    +1
    How Rommel defeated the British in Cyrenaica

    Rommel's decision turned out to be correct

    the operation clearly shows what Hitler could have done if he really wanted England to be defeated. If Rommel were immediately given not one corps, but an army and a whole air army ...


    Is this within the framework of April 1st?
  13. bk0010
    bk0010 April 1 2021 11: 42
    0
    In order to prevent a military-political catastrophe of his main ally and a complete loss of positions in the Mediterranean, Hitler was forced to intervene.
    Can anyone explain why both sides rode back and forth across northern Africa? What kind of catastrophe happened when Rommel was beaten? Why weren't the British in Egypt? What is the reason for this battle? After all, there are no resources, no industry, no important logistics hubs ... It just so happened, or what?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 1 2021 11: 57
      +2
      Quote: bk0010
      Can anyone explain why both sides rode back and forth across northern Africa? What kind of catastrophe happened when Rommel was beaten?

      Back in early 1941, the Allies determined that the first link of the Axis to be knocked out would be the weakest - Italy. Accordingly, they needed North Africa as a base for landing in Italy.
      Quote: bk0010
      Why weren't the British in Egypt?

      Because they were attacked by the Italians on 13.09.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX. These experienced masochists regularly attacked first - and regularly took full blows. smile
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 12: 20
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        These experienced masochists regularly attacked first - and regularly took full blows.

        Duce needed Suez to communicate with the IVA. Even the unpretentious Eritrean askari had to be supplied somehow.
      2. andrew42
        andrew42 April 1 2021 16: 09
        +4
        Of course, there is logic in this "first link", but the logic is ephemeral. They knocked out this "first link" for a painfully long time, and without the Americans they would not have knocked out anything even close. So Samsonov is 100% right: the Britons were shaking terribly behind the Suez. And the top of the Reich would definitely have entered "all the way to Palestine", if it was necessary to maintain a database in only two limited theaters of operations - in Africa and the Balkans. If ... if Hitler and Co. were not "charged" against the USSR since 1936. For the complete defeat of the British Empire in Africa / Asia, 1/5 of the forces of "Barabarossa" would be enough. More than enough. The capture of Suez is the complete loss of the Mediterranean by the British, and the subsequent lack of a foothold for any US involvement. The conclusion is correct: Britain was allowed to keep Egypt and the canal.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 1 2021 16: 46
          -1
          Quote: andrew42
          Of course, there is logic in this "first link", but the logic is ephemeral. They knocked out this "first link" for a painfully long time, and without the Americans they would not have knocked out anything even close.

          So plans for a future joint campaign were coordinated with the United States at the beginning of 1941. neutral USA. smile
          Quote: andrew42
          If ... if Hitler and Co. were not "charged" against the USSR since 1936.

          To defeat the USSR in 1936, the "cordon sanitaire" was enough - Romania, Poland, Finland and Japan. 25 cadre rifle divisions from Leningrad to Vladivostok - that's all the might of the Red Army.
          The Reich was allowed to revive for intra-European squabbles.
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 April 1 2021 17: 33
            +1
            "The Reich was allowed to revive for internal European squabbles" -. Well, well. Will you command to believe?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 1 2021 17: 54
              0
              Quote: andrew42
              "The Reich was allowed to revive for internal European squabbles" -. Well, well. Will you command to believe?

              And you propose to believe that some circles have decided to create a monster with the industry of the "big" Reich and the resources of the occupied part of the USSR (inaccessible to the influence of the Allies)? In order to fight him hard later?
              The goal of the future war was the collapse of the colonial system and the weakening of Europe. Not a monster from Biscay to the Urals. smile
              In addition, at the time of the reconstruction of the Reich of the USSR, there was no one in international politics and there was no way to call him. The attitude of the "giants" to the USSR is clearly visible in Munich: we were not even invited to the negotiations on the fate of the country connected with the USSR by treaties
              1. Engineer
                Engineer April 1 2021 20: 33
                +3
                Oops. That is, Hitler was really an "icebreaker". Only not Stalin, but Roosevelt. laughing
                Vini and Britasha were the intended victims. what
                The multi-move is notable, but alas "Stalin outplayed everyone" (c)
              2. chenia
                chenia April 2 2021 10: 18
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                that some circles decided to create a monster with the industry of the "big" Reich and the resources of the occupied part of the USSR (inaccessible to the influence of the Allies)? In order to fight him hard later?


                The guys from Albion did not want this option (Hitler outplayed them). But the "" endless "war between Germany and the USSR and Poland (well, someone else will be connected), during which a change of allies is possible (and this process was to be controlled by the Britons).
                YES. And as NON-comrade Truman used to say. constantly help the losing side (the main thing is that they kill each other more). Stand over the fight.
                And when did the British behave differently?
                They and Frankov persuaded (although that was scary - they did not have the English Channel).
          2. chenia
            chenia April 2 2021 10: 04
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            enough "cordon sanitaire" - Romania, Poland, Finland and Japan. 25 regular rifle divisions


            So they probed, the sensations, it will not be enough. And at the same time it is unlikely that it will be possible to unleash this pack on the USSR.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            The Reich was allowed to revive for intra-European showdown


            They were allowed to revive when Germany was led by forces of a clearly anti-Eastern orientation. And the intermediate "purely" European showdowns were decided by concessions - "peacefully".
          3. andrew42
            andrew42 April 2 2021 14: 01
            +1
            "A cordon sanitaire was enough for the defeat of the USSR in 1936 - Romania, Poland, Finland and Japan." - For rout? Maybe also for the capture? - Do not make me laugh. Of these, only the Japanese Armed Forces can be viewed as an existential threat. Finland is a small number of armed forces, suitable for effective defense, but not for expansion. About the military "cars" of Poland and Romania - frivolous, naked show-off. It can be assumed that the coordinated (!) Interaction of Romania / Finland / Poland with the support of England / France would have made it possible to tear off a couple of pieces of territory from Soviet Russia. What then? - then there will be reckoning. Japan in general is for itself, I saw Western gaijins in a coffin, after Hasan thought, after Khalkhin Gol, it did not feel like it at all. Of course, I understand that all means are good in a dispute, but have a conscience. Otherwise, in 1936 you would have thrown caps at the USSR, and in 1941 there were not enough 190 divisions and the economy of Hitler's European Union. If they evolved for 5 years, then in 1950 they should be on Mars.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 3 2021 12: 03
              +1
              Quote: andrew42
              "A cordon sanitaire was enough for the defeat of the USSR in 1936 - Romania, Poland, Finland and Japan." - For rout? Maybe also for the capture? - Do not make me laugh.

              You either confuse the RKKA arr. 1940 with the RKKA arr. 1935, or believe the domestic propaganda about the invincibility of the Soviet army.
              In the reality of the mid-30s, everything was much sadder:
              The deployment of rifle formations and units corresponded to the main provisions of the operational plan for the deployment of the Red Army, according to which Japan was considered the main enemy of the Soviet Union, and the Far East was determined as the main theater of military operations. In the West, it was supposed to conduct military operations against Poland and Romania with the neutrality of Finland, Estonia and Latvia and the friendly neutrality of Germany. In accordance with this plan, rifle divisions and corps in the Far East were kept in a reinforced composition close to the wartime states.

              In total, according to the mobplan 1934/1935. it was planned to deploy 41 directorates of rifle corps, 150 rifle divisions and 2 rifle brigades.
              But the basis for this deployment was catastrophically weak. The staffing of the peacetime rifle forces did not correspond to the tasks of the mobplan. In wartime, the rifle division of the Red Army was supposed to number about 12 thousand people. However, only 900 divisions of OKDVA had a strength close to wartime (from 12 people in the 7050th and 36th rifle divisions to 57 people in the 10209rd collective farm division). On the western borders, only five border personnel divisions numbered about 3 thousand people each (6 SD). The rest of the connections had a number of 2,4,5,24,44 to 4419 people.

              Once again: in the entire Red Army there were 84 rifle divisions. Of these, 20 (twenty) personnel were actually combat-ready. Of these, 11 were in the Far East.
              Belarus - 3 personnel SD. Ukraine - 2 personnel SD. In the Leningrad Military District in 1935 - not a single personnel division, only 4 mixed (30% of the staff, 2 of the regiments - territories), in 1936 - one personnel, formerly territorial.
              The real term for the deployment of territories (based on the results of the training camp) is 2-3 months, and it is necessary to train not only the assigned staff, but also the permanent one.
              In 1936 they tried to increase the number of divisions to 100, of which 67 were personnel.
              Of the required 67 cadre divisions, it was planned to transfer 9 cadre divisions to wartime staff (13000 people), keep 8 divisions in short supply from this staff (10000 people), 9 divisions to have 8000 people, 40 divisions - 6560 people.

              And they failed this plan, running into cadres and industry: the domestic military-industrial complex could not provide even the states of peacetime with weapons and equipment.
              1. andrew42
                andrew42 April 5 2021 10: 53
                0
                "You either confuse the RKKA arr. 1940 with the RKKA arr. 1935, or believe the domestic propaganda about the invincibility of the Soviet army." - I am not confusing anything, and I am quite aware of the difference between the Red Army in 1935 and 1940. Once again, I draw your attention to the ESSENCE of my post: if in 1935 the Red Army was allegedly unable to unwind the team of near-line "orderlies", then in 5 years no construction of the Armed Forces would have allowed to rise to a level that would allow it to withstand the entire "Hitlerite Europe Team". And by the way, the forces of Romania / Poland, Finland and other "cordonists" in general should also be measured for 1935. As for the readiness of these gentlemen to wage a full-scale war - this is a clear example of the successes of Czechoslovakia in 1936 - the most technically advanced army in Eastern Europe.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA April 5 2021 11: 17
                  0
                  Quote: andrew42
                  THE ESSENCE of my post: if in 1935 the Red Army was allegedly unable to unwind the team of near-cordon "orderlies", then in 5 years no construction of the Armed Forces would have allowed it to rise to a level that would allow it to withstand the entire "Hitlerite Europe Team".

                  The real construction of the Armed Forces began in 1939. And it was spurred on by the results of the SFV, when the forces of the LMO, which theoretically had all the capabilities to reach Vyborg in a couple of weeks, were unable to break through two missile launchers with machine-gun DOS with the forces of a rifle corps, reinforced by a heavy tank brigade. Moreover, in three days of fighting with the Finns, the brigade was reduced to zero.
                  The real state of the Red Army in the first half of 1940 is described in the well-known "Act of transferring the NKO" - the number is unknown, there are no plans for a future war, there is no mob-plan, and the training of the combat arms is unsatisfactory.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 1 2021 22: 24
      0
      Suez Canal, from here
      1) Iran
      2) India
      England is an island and was supplied with raw materials and reinforcements from the colonies.
      The attack on Italy incapacitated Hitler's only Axis ally.
      (Italy surrendered in 1943).
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 April 1 2021 22: 34
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Suez Canal
        The Suez Canal in Egypt, and they rode through Libya and Tunisia (with today's money). And that's all. Well, the Germans and the Italians are fine, but why did the British go to the desert? In the hope of knocking out the enemy, while weakening the defense of a really important object?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 1 2021 22: 46
          0
          The British had a chain of bases throughout the Mediterranean:
          Gibraltar, Malta, Crete, Alexandria.
          The Germans wanted to break this chain. Tunisia is in the middle.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 3 2021 12: 34
          +1
          Quote: bk0010
          Well, the Germans and the Italians are fine, but why did the British go to the desert? In the hope of knocking out the enemy, while weakening the defense of a really important object?

          The British first went to the desert, because the Italians came to them from there. Therefore, they decided to eliminate the source of the threat. And they would have eliminated if not for Vinnie.
          Why didn't they retreat to Egypt after Rommel's arrival? First, underestimating the enemy (two divisions - well, what can they do). Secondly, if you give Rommel Libya, then the Germans and Italians will be able to establish a short shoulder of supply (through the same Tobruk), and even, very likely, they will resolve the issue with Malta (in real life, the same backlashes rushed between the two goals - then they will have Malta bomb, then cover Rommel with them and clear the way for him).
  14. Dmt
    Dmt April 1 2021 12: 00
    +2
    Quote: bk0010
    Can anyone explain why both sides rode back and forth across northern Africa?

    There are resources there - at least oil (modern Libya is an example of this). Plus sales markets. Colonial policy did not disappear with the advent of capitalism, it only took on other forms.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 12: 16
      +3
      Quote: DMT
      There are resources there - at least oil (modern Libya is an example of this).

      Oil was found in Libya only in the mid-50s, and production began in 1959. There were no resource interests there.
      Quote: DMT
      Plus sales markets.

      What are the sales markets in the Libyan Desert?
      1. Dmt
        Dmt April 1 2021 12: 34
        +2
        What does the desert have to do with it? The coast of North Africa is well populated - there are many port cities. There is where to sell and where to take. If you pay attention to the history (and geography) of this territory for a couple of millennia, all the time someone is at war with someone.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 12: 53
          0
          Quote: DMT
          There is where to sell and where to take.

          Who should sell something in this impasse? Berbers? And where to take? Camel caravans to Sudan or Belgian Congo? It's 1940, dear, do you think that consumer goods producers saw a promising market in Africa and were ready to fight for it?
          1. Dmt
            Dmt April 1 2021 12: 57
            +2
            Your questions, dear, make me once again advise you to study the geography and history of the region in more detail request
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 13: 06
              +1
              Quote: DMT
              Your questions, dear, make me once again advise you to study the geography and history of the region in more detail request

              Well, explain the prospects of Libya as a sales market for the European industry in the 1940th year. With its population density of 1 person per 1 sq. Km. And, well, yes, there are more in Tunisia - 10 people.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 1 2021 16: 03
        +1
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        What are the sales markets in the Libyan Desert?

        There, besides Libya, there is also Egypt. Which, in fact, the Italians decided to grab in 1940, because in Libya the colony is purely decorative: there is almost nothing to take, and there is almost no one to sell. smile
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. April 1 2021 16: 36
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          There, besides Libya, there is also Egypt.

          Also a promising sales market? ))
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 1 2021 17: 48
            +2
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Also a promising sales market? ))

            Against the background of Libya arr. 1940 any sales market is promising. smile
  15. Engineer
    Engineer April 1 2021 12: 46
    +5
    In principle, nothing particularly terrible for the British happened. A couple of divisions are defeated, it happens to everyone. The main shame for them in this theater of operations happened a little over a year later.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 1 2021 22: 29
      0
      At the end of 42 Rommel was defeated.
      In the summer of 43, Italy surrendered.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer April 1 2021 22: 34
        +1
        I mean El-Ghazala and the capture of Tobruk
        Rommel's defeat happened later
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 1 2021 22: 53
          +4
          Why do you consider the battle of Gazala a shame?
          A stubborn battle. The British lost, but knocked out about 400 tanks
          enemy. Rommel could not make up for these losses.
          And this later led to his strategic defeat.
          You do not consider the similar defeat of the Red Army in 41 to be a shame?
          1. Engineer
            Engineer April 1 2021 23: 02
            +4
            Numerical advantage in people. and large in tanks, prepared positions. Thousands of mines ahead of the front. Support nodes Bir-Hakim on the left flank, Tobruk on the right. The army has been fighting for two years and has combat experience. There are many New Zealand and Australian units among the units, and these are very good soldiers.
            All this is poured into the toilet with a loss ratio of more than 1:10
            The Red Army in Crimea with a clear conscience can say "we didn't have such crap"
            An illustration of the total superiority of the Germans over the British in a land war.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 1 2021 23: 10
              +1
              "An illustration of the total superiority of the Germans over the British in a land war" ///
              ----
              Was there any other illustration in the East in June 1941? With a million prisoners of war.
              Same. In the tactics of the ground forces, the Wehrmacht surpassed by a head
              during this period, any army in the world, without exception.
              Everyone learned from their defeats. And only in 1944 they learned to replay
              Germans. And even then, not always.
              1. Engineer
                Engineer April 1 2021 23: 19
                +3
                First, I consider the 41st year to be a shame for the Red Army.
                Secondly, this shame fades before El-Ghazala
                The British had everything the Red Army in 41 could only dream of. An excellent position, with powerful defenders, the possibilities of maneuver are constrained, in contrast to the endless expanses of the VF., An experienced army of fighters, an advantage in tanks, both quantitative and qualitative, taking into account that the Germans have half of the tanks Italian. Even in the air there was an approximate equality of forces - an unprecedented luxury at the WF in 41
                Taking Tobruk on the move is generally the icing on the cake and the most shameful page (one of many) of the WB army.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh April 2 2021 01: 54
                  +3
                  "Secondly, this shame ..." ///
                  ----
                  You use this word because you were not in the war. sad
                  I was a little bit and therefore stopped throwing such words.
                2. clerk
                  clerk April 2 2021 10: 15
                  +2
                  Firstly, I consider the 41st year to be a shame for the Red Army ..
                  A highly controversial opinion - an unmobilized, undeployed army, inferior to the enemy in experience, communications and transport, fought with the ratio of losses as in the defeat of France. PMSM is very worthy.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA April 2 2021 10: 26
                +2
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Was there any other illustration in the East in June 1941? With a million prisoners of war.

                The Battle of Ghazal is. rather, an analogue of our summer of 1942. The British had our June 1941, too, in 1941, when Rommel had just arrived.
  16. BAI
    BAI April 1 2021 13: 10
    +2
    If Rommel were immediately given not one corps, but an army and a whole air army, then he would have every chance to seize not only Cyrenaica, but also Egypt with a swift and powerful onslaught, to intercept the Suez Canal, the most important communication of the British Empire.

    If only yes. Who will give so many troops to Africa on the eve of the attack on the USSR and how long would it take to transfer these troops?
  17. Gunter prereen
    Gunter prereen April 12 2021 17: 02
    0
    Yes. It is a pity that the Germans did not appreciate the prospect of the African front.