Military Review

"Torpedo poverty" exercises of the Russian Navy "Umka-2021"

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On March 26, it became known that, as part of the Umka-2021 Arctic expedition, the Navy finally conducted the first under-ice torpedo firing in the Arctic. With a delay of tens of years, but spent. It would seem that there is something to be happy about, but what happened raises such a mass of questions that one cannot simply be happy.


First of all, the approach itself, in which only one torpedo was used, raises questions. One shot is practically nothing, the Americans fire dozens of shots during each exercise, and under different conditions. It also raises a lot of questions about the form in which everything that happened was reported to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. Was objective information brought to him? And from these questions follows the main one: was this the beginning of real work on bringing the torpedo case in the Navy to the desired state, or was it just an attempt to calm the public?

Umka-2021 and a report to the President


At first - message from the website of the President of the Russian Federation.

The President heard a report by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Nikolai Evmenov on the progress of the integrated Arctic expedition on March 26.03.2021, 17, 15:XNUMX.

V. Putin: Nikolai Anatolyevich, good afternoon!

N. Evmenov: I wish you good health, Comrade Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation!

V. Putin: The Arctic expedition, about which you will report, has no analogues in stories, both of the Soviet period and in the modern history of the Russian Federation. Please report your results.

N. Evmenov: Comrade Supreme Commander-in-Chief, from March 20, 2021, under the leadership of the Chief Command of the Naval Fleet an integrated Arctic expedition "Umka-2021" is underway.
In total, the plan provides for 43 activities ... To date, in accordance with the plan, 35 activities have been completed, eight are being implemented according to the plan.
For the first time in the history of the Navy the following has been done:
- ascent from under the ice of three nuclear missile carriers with a break of one and a half meter ice according to a single plan and plan at the appointed time in an area with a radius of 300 meters;
- flight in the circumpolar region with refueling in the air with a pair of MiG-31 with the passage of the geographic point of the North Pole in the forward and backward directions;
- practical torpedo firing of a nuclear submarine from under the ice, followed by icing a practical torpedo, detecting it by technical means and lifting it to the surface.

The last phrase should be specially emphasized.


Next:

As a result of the measures taken, the samples of weapons, military and special equipment confirmed all their specified technical characteristics in conditions of high latitudes and low temperatures.

It should be noted that some provisions of this report of N. Evmenov to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, to put it mildly, do not correspond to reality.

For example, in addition to "three nuclear missile carriers" (two projects 667BDRM and K-549 "Prince Vladimir" of project 955A), there was also a special nuclear submarine BS-64 (project 09787).


The photo clearly shows four ice breakage, snowmobile tracks and markings left during the advance preparation of the ascent site by forces on the ice surface. Source: Maxar technologies

Very bad questions are raised by the "vigorous report" about the alleged "confirmation by all samples of military equipment and military equipment of their specified performance characteristics." A simple example is how messages about an event look on the website of the Ministry of Defense and on the website of the Presidential Administration.

"Torpedo poverty" exercises of the Russian Navy "Umka-2021"

Obviously, the difference in the meaning of the two phrases below is significant:

As a result of the measures taken, the samples of weapons, military and special equipment confirmed all their specified technical characteristics in conditions of high latitudes and low temperatures.

и

Based on the results of the measures taken, samples of weapons, military and special equipment participating in military-technical experiments, generally confirmed their tactical and technical characteristics in conditions of high latitudes and low temperatures.

And the word "as a whole" allows for a very loose interpretation and the possibility of "stretching" the results. At the same time, it is clear that the "DIMK formulation" was not invented by him and was evidently present in the original text of N. Evmenov's report. However, a completely different meaning and essence was reported to the President of the Russian Federation ...

And this is not the first time this has happened.

You can recall the exhibition of naval weapons in Sevastopol in December 2019, where on the model of the "promising ship of the oceanic zone" of project 20386, the Supreme Commander was given Reduta launchers for the "Caliber" launchers. Or a show with the destruction of German mines during the Great Patriotic War by the minesweeper "Alexander Obukhov" in the area of ​​the sinking of the Shch-308 submarine (on the eve of the immersion of the President of the Russian Federation), that is, work that could be done with practically the same efficiency by a minesweeper of the USSR Navy in the early 70s biennium project 1265 (with GAS MG-89 and underwater vehicle "Luch-1"). But the fact that "Obukhov" (and the entire "newest" project 12700) has very serious problems with modern bottom mines, they "safely forgot" to report to the president ...

We can recall the "brave reports" of the Department of Information and Mass Communications of Konashenkov (DIMK MO) about the alleged "successes" of firing new corvettes of the Navy with the MF-RLK "Zaslon" (in fact, "Aldar Tsydenzhapov" did not fire anti-aircraft missiles at all, but shooting "Thundering" was carried out in conditions not only in the slightest not corresponding to the real battle, but, moreover, for them it was generally possible not to include the "passing state tests" MF-RLK), for more details see the materials "Thundering" and others. Will our fleet get effective ships in the near-field? " и The Leaky Umbrella of the Fleet.

Let me emphasize that if the conclusion about the failure of the firing of "Aldar Tsydenzhapov" was made on the basis of a comprehensive analysis of various sources (including the Internet inside information of the MF-RLK developers themselves), then according to "Thundering" these are precisely the facts documented by the DIMK of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - see. video of shooting, with a lot of technical details (the very fact of the open publication of which causes frank bewilderment).

That is, misleading the president has actually become the norm when it comes to naval issues. And the ice-firing torpedoes are a vivid example of this. He understood in detail in the article “To deceive Putin. How the domestic and Western press are used for misinformation ".

That is, in accordance with the "answer" at the request of the presidential administration, and GOU GSh (!), We allegedly have:
- ice shooting is carried out;
- our submarines have effective anti-torpedo protection and are armed with modern torpedoes;
- our submarines and NSNF are provided with effective anti-submarine and anti-mine defense. Etc.
All this is a lie (which is confirmed, among other things, by photographs of the Boreyev torpedo decks and materials of arbitration courts), and this lie was reported to the Presidential Administration by the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff!

What has the OU GSh to do with it?

And here's what - this is how the "answer" looked at the time at the request of the Presidential Administration of the Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff:

No. 312/4/4421 dated 15.05.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX
The handling of information on the state of the submarine forces of the Navy and the Northern Fleet, received by the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation, by the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation has been considered. This situation is not true.
I. Dylevsky, Deputy Head of the General Staff School.

What was the request about?

As for the ice shooting, of course.

Now the dots above the "i" for ice shooting are placed. Officially, including on the website of the President of the Russian Federation: performed for the first time (in the Navy of the Russian Federation and the USSR), during the events "Umka-2021". The fact of deliberately misleading the country's leadership has received public evidence.

I must say that the responsible persons lied not only to the president. It is also appropriate to recall how earlier representatives of DIMK, to put it mildly, “misled the public” by making deliberately false statements (deputy head of DIMK, Volosatov, “VPK”):

Even more surprising are statements that the naval forces are not practicing combat training exercises in the Arctic [with practical torpedo firing - M.K.]. Probably Klimov doesn't bother with routine monitoring news information on this subject.

Now everyone can see everything well?

It is worth noting that in the days of the USSR, for false reports to the highest military-political leadership, they were mercilessly removed from their posts. And that was absolutely correct. We, on the other hand, often only have new questions from the reports to the management. This shooting is just such a case.

"Inconvenient" facts and questions of "Umka-2021"


Of course, the fact that we have finally begun to do what for the US Navy has been a "routine of combat training" for a quarter of a century is a positive event.


The reaction to this news in the media was very stormy. Including again emerging "ducks" (the level of simply inadequacy) about the alleged "freezing (and getting stuck in the ice)" of American submarines and their alleged "inability to operate in the Arctic."

However, there are objectively no special grounds for jubilation and “massive throwing of caps into the air”.


The snapshot indicates that a combat torpedo (most likely 53-65K) was used to break through the ice during the exercise. Source: Maxar technologies

First. The US Navy not only began the development of the Arctic before us, they immediately put at the forefront the question of not just "sailing there" (like we), but effectively fighting. For example, the first group ascent of three submarines (and at the North Pole) during the ICEX exercise was carried out back in 1986!


Second. The number and level of special exercises with us and with them is simply disproportionate. "The so-called partners" conduct such exercises at least once every two years, with multipurpose PLA hunters. The non-participation (?) Of multipurpose nuclear submarines of the Navy in Umka-2021 (and, accordingly, their failure to conduct torpedo firing in ice conditions) begs very bad questions for the Russian Navy.

Third. Torpedo firing. When one side conducts them regularly and in dozens, and the second - "once and all right", the question arises - what was it? Is this definitely combat training (and not an element of a ceremonial PR report)?

Fourth. Why did not our main "ice walker" shoot the nuclear submarine of Project 677BDRM? Technically it was quite possible, even by "Physicists" with telecontrol from a portable device for backup data input. And even more so they could shoot old torpedoes SET-65 SSN "Keramika" or "Sapphire". Only here shooting at such exercises with torpedo junk SET-65 would be just a shame. Why didn't our multipurpose nuclear submarines fire?

Fifth. The Umka-2021 exercise, of course, was closely monitored by anti-submarine forces and the means of "so-called partners." The presence in one place of two or three strategic "bomb carriers" and a special purpose boat is a tasty catch, which simply could not pass by the attention of the US Navy. At the same time, even the old Sturgeons could cope well with covert tracking of the 667BDRM project (which was fully demonstrated by the collision of the 1969 Greyling with the last BDRM hull in 1994).

Moreover, the presence of two BDRMs nearby (including a special-purpose boat converted into a boat) was an unmasking factor for our newest strategic agro-industrial complex Prince Vladimir of project 955A. With a probability of "four nines", he was tracked during "Umka-2021", and his noises were recorded. Having organized a show of three "strategists" in a group ascent, the Main Command of the Navy did everything so that the enemy could easily do this.

As for the report on “43 events”, RM comes to mind. Melnikov, the book "Rurik" was the first ", the chapter" Cruisers are preparing for battle ":

The famous table of 286 exercises was given from above, in the mass of which, sometimes far-fetched and archaic (with mine rafts, kites, rockets for railway communication from the coast, etc.), those main ones were lost, on which the combat readiness and combat effectiveness of the ship directly depended ... The above-set ammunition consumption remained depressingly low as before ...

It ended with Tsushima and revolution ...

Against this background, 1 (one) Umki-21 torpedo raises a very bad question: was this a real attempt by the Navy to end it or was there a need for a vigorous report from the Supreme Command?

I think both.

For there were those who demanded and carried out (this is, first of all, the Northern Fleet), and there were those who “promoted” and used it, including in “career interests” (and the latter were really “uninteresting” in full-fledged tests and firing).


Against the background of the statistics of a huge number of ICEX special exercises, attracted by submarines and massive torpedo firing on them by the US and British navies, 1 (one) torpedo shot during Umka-21 is not even funny, but very sad. Especially considering the very significant costs (financial, extremely expensive resource of the nuclear submarine) for this event.

An unpleasant phrase from the publications of 2019, which has been "cut" by many: "Arctic fitness of the Russian Navy instead of tin combat training in the Arctic for US and British submarines" is also true for Umka-2021 ...

On the question of the results of torpedo firing.

From the article "Arctic torpedo scandal".

I am sure that the first shooting under the ice will turn out to be largely a failure. And this is an objective fact. Do not worry: a tough and decisive elimination of the identified deficiencies, and again shooting. More disadvantages? Again, their removal and shooting. And the task will be solved, because, I repeat, there are no technical problems, everything is within our reach and can be solved. The question is exclusively in the tough formulation of the question (just as it was done earlier with the “Polyment-Redut” AAMS).
Our submarines are required to have a reliable and effective torpedo weapon and be able to use it in all conditions of the situation (including under the ice)!

Some may argue - how is it that the author wrote about the "failed shooting", but now Mr. Evmenov is reporting to the president that:

have confirmed all their specified specifications in high latitude conditions.

And it is very simple - by means of telecontrol it is possible to "drag" a torpedo even with an almost "deafened" CLS to the target according to the hydroacoustics of the firing submarine (and then monitor its ascent point or, in general, lead to a large ice hole).

Note. Shooting with autonomous torpedoes (without telecontrol) is also possible, for example, near the edge of the ice with the formation of a firing task for the output at a given time of the torpedo to clear water to lift it.

There is also the option of placing special navigation aids on the ice, but I don’t want to think about this, since taking into account the short range of such means (to ensure the required accuracy), such shooting will be simple in “aquarium” conditions.

In addition, the Arctic is different. And for a torpedo shot, an area with a relatively flat bottom surface of the ice (that is, without a large number of "plots") could be chosen.

It will not be superfluous to recall the main SSN torpedoes of the Navy (so far):

The powerful low-frequency SSN “Waterfall”, which is the main one for USET-80 since its “birth”, has extremely low noise immunity, and is practically inoperable in ice conditions.
In 1989, due to the extremely low noise immunity of "Waterfall" at shallow depths, USET-80 received a medium-frequency low-power SSN "Ceramics" (literally from the developer's book: "reproduced on a domestic base" with SSN of the American torpedo Mk46mod.1, 1961), which, in fact, is a shameful page in the domestic torpedo building.
Until now, the Ceramica SSN, despite its extremely low performance characteristics, is the most common SSN of the Navy's torpedoes.
The use of USET-80 with "Ceramics" in ice conditions is possible with very significant restrictions, and at minimum ("pistol") distances, despite the fact that the firing positions of enemy torpedoes are almost an order of magnitude higher than ours (the performance characteristics of torpedoes are simply incomparable). Figuratively speaking, the enemy has a "sniper rifle" against our "pistol", and this is in conditions of a significant lead in detection!
In such a situation, a clash between a Russian nuclear submarine and an American or British submarine will be described by the word “shooting”.


To the history of these SSNs (and how we came to such a shameful situation with the combat capability of the Navy submarines, we will return below).

A brief history of the under-ice confrontation between the Navy of the USSR (RF) and the Navy of the United States and Great Britain.

Rear Admiral V.G. Lebedko:

The first attempt to reach the North Pole was the voyage of the American submarine "Nautilus" under the command of W. Andersen in September 1957. Then the American submariners reached 87 ° north latitude.
In March 1958, a group of submarines S-347 V.N. Chernavin, B-76 V.N. Berkovchenko and B-70 L.A. Matushkina. Their main task was to study the possibility of receiving radio transmissions under the ice. Having traveled north about 90 miles under continuous ice cover, the boats turned back and, at the limit of their energy capacities, surfaced in broken ice, before reaching clear water. This is all that our new diesel-electric submarines could do in "response to Andersen" (such an unofficial name was used by this ice navigation among the submariners of the Northern Fleet).

On August 3, 1958, the USS Nautilus submarine reached the North Pole for the first time in the world.

In 1959, the nuclear submarine of the USSR Navy K-3 Captain 1st Rank L.G. Osipenko made a short voyage under the ice of the Arctic (260 miles).

In 1961, four cruises of the naval submarine took place in the Arctic, with the K-3 L.M. Zhiltsova reached 82 ° north latitude.

In 1962, a 50-day trip to the Arctic was made by K-21 (commander - Captain 2nd Rank V.N.Chernavin). Under the ice, they covered 1700 miles, developed a method for finding polynyas and surfacing in them, determining a place in high latitudes.

July 17, 1962 K-3 captain 2nd rank L.M. Zhiltsova finally reached the North Pole.

Let me emphasize that we were in relation to the US Navy, already actively sailing in the Arctic (up to the group actions of the submarine - the first group ascent on August 22, 1962: SSN-578 Skate and SSN-584 Seadragon), in the position of catching up. It is worth noting that the then anti-submarine torpedoes of our nuclear submarines - SET-53 - had a passive SSN, which was quite functional under ice conditions. More details - "Torpedo SET-53: Soviet" totalitarian ", but real".

In 1971, for the first time, a campaign was made in the Arctic (and to the North Pole, although he could not use his missile weapons there) RPK SN project 667A K-411 (commander 1st rank captain S.E. Sobolevsky, senior campaign rear admiral G.L. Nevolin) and the newest multipurpose nuclear submarine K-147 of project 671 (passed under the ice of the Arctic about 10 miles).

Only this was again a response to the active development of the Arctic (since 1969) by the latest USS Sturgeon-class submarines.

After the US Navy's submarines received Mk-70 remote-controlled torpedoes in the early 48s, they acquired a decisive military-technical superiority over our nuclear submarines.

At the same time, after we received intelligence information about the very high efficiency of the American stationary SOSUS submarine detection system, the Navy was forced to shift the patrol routes of the RPK SN (with intercontinental missiles - projects 667B, BD, BDR) closer and closer to its coast. This decision was extremely positively received in the US Navy - since now the activity and initiative of the USSR Navy in the far and oceanic zone was shackled by "weights on its feet" with the demands of providing its PKK SN in the coastal "bastions".

The solution for the Soviet Navy to "unload" its general-purpose forces was the Arctic, whose difficult conditions significantly hampered countercurrent operations. From the beginning of the 80s, mass campaigns and pratrolling of our RPK SN "under the ice" began. For example, in 1982 the RPK SN K-211 (commander 2nd rank captain A.A. Berzin) made a cruise along the perimeter of the Arctic Ocean.

Rear Admiral V.G. Lebedko:

By 1984, American submarines had 26 Arctic cruises, while the Soviet had over 70.

Of course, the result is very serious. However, we have lost the main thing - the ability to actually fight and win under water in ice conditions.

The fact that the question of ice firing was not raised in our country at that time is possibly a consequence of a grandiose "torpedo scandal" (and a criminal case) over the newest torpedo USET-80 (basic for the 3rd generation), which turned out to be practically incapable of combat.

The main anti-submarine torpedo of the USSR Navy submarine at that time was the SET-65III with the Sapfir SSN, which had several times worse performance characteristics in comparison with the Mk48 and could be effectively used under ice only from "pistol distances" and with a number of serious restrictions (which no one had ever checked practical shooting).

Briefly on the methodology of the US Navy exercises in the Arctic


The US Navy's ICEX exercise is administered by The Arctic Submarine Laboratory is the US Navy's Center of Excellence for the deployment of submarines to the Arctic.

The Arctic Submarine Laboratory is a center of excellence for diving in the Arctic, which is responsible for developing and accumulating practical knowledge, technologies and procedures to work more efficiently and safely in the unique environment of the Arctic Ocean.

Its main tasks:

- research and development of specific experience in the Arctic;
- training and advanced training of submariners for the deployment of naval forces in the Arctic;
- planning and organization of seasonal ice bases and ICEX operations;
- testing and evaluation of weapons and military equipment for operations in the Arctic.

Just one example of the scale of such work in the US Navy. During ICEX-2003, the SSN-22 submarine fired 2003 Mk18 torpedoes within two weeks (and the personnel of the ICEX-48 station removed from under the ice).


The technique of lifting torpedoes from under the ice of the US Navy is interesting, and the key here is the high accuracy of the Mk48 torpedo control system and the presence of telecontrol. Due to this, at any moment in time on the firing submarine they know the exact location of the torpedo, have telemetry from its side (including the work of the SSN) and can control it (including for withdrawal to the area that is optimal for lifting from under the ice).

Further, the coordinates of the surfaced (frozen) torpedoes are transmitted via the underwater communication to the ice control point, from where helicopters take off to the designated point. A team of three to four people drills a series of holes ("holes") for divers, as well as one hole for a torpedo, which is then lifted by a helicopter.

Lt. Courtney Callaghan of the ICEX Exercise Support Team writes:

As soon as we know the location of the torpedo and the holes, the divers descend into the water to place ballast weights on a cable attached to the tail of the torpedo to change the buoyancy of the torpedo from positive to neutral in order to move it to the hole for subsequent ascent.

Simple, reliable and efficient.

If you have in the ammunition load modern and mastered torpedoes (and not "green torpedo firewood", as is often the case with us). More information about these exercises of the US Navy can be found in the article "ICEX - the Arctic threat to Russia" ("NVO" 2019).

The key problem of the Russian Navy in the Arctic is that we have never conducted torpedo firing under the ice with homing systems turned on. Thus, we get that the "probable enemy" has tough combat training, as close as possible to real conditions, while we have "Arctic fitness". The only thing that was done in the USSR was bathyspheric (stop) tests of torpedo homing systems from ice, and the last of them were carried out already in 1971! ..
The question of conducting their own special exercises, similar to ICEX, was repeatedly raised by the initiative officers of the Russian Navy, but "things are still there." Reasons for refusals to organize such exercises range from “no money” to outright fear of “revealing” acute problematic issues. As a result, we got a situation where today the submarine forces of the Russian Navy in under-ice conditions are practically non-combatant. Obviously, this situation is intolerable, and decisive measures are needed to correct it as soon as possible.

There is also something related to torpedoes under the ice, and besides shooting.

Bathyspheric tests of our torpedo homing systems in the Arctic


Taking into account the huge "failure" in the development of modern domestic SSN torpedoes in ice conditions, the bathyspheric (stop work) of the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor", carried out until the beginning of the 70s, is of great interest. in the Arctic.

From the article "Bathyspheric Chronicles" (N.Kh. Boychenkov, Yu.N. Bukhalov, Ph.D. V.N.Shekhin Central Research Institute "Gidropribor") with the author's comments:

By decision of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, in the period from the second quarter of 1970 to the second quarter of 1971, the Central Research Institute "Gidropribor", together with the AARI, organized a second Arctic expedition at a specially created drifting station SP-20 ...

A leveled pack ice floe measuring 750x4,2 km, at least 3,9 years old, was chosen 3 km from Wrangel Island. The thickness of the ice floe in some areas varied from 2,8 to 12 m.

The level of the problem statement - the Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR - draws attention to itself.

Conducting full-scale stop tests of samples of non-contact systems on SP-20 included studies of the performance of the CLS of serial and experimental torpedoes MGT-3, SET-40, AT-2, UST, UMGT-1, as well as measuring input effects by equipment with CLN parameters. torpedoes MGT-1 with the use of bathyspheres, lowered on a cable into the water through holes punched with explosives in the ice-hole ... The first sea tests of the UMGT-1 torpedo SSN were started in under-ice conditions at the SP-20 station.

Thus, on the SP-20, stop (bathyspheric) tests of all the latest SSN torpedoes of the Navy were carried out:

- SSN UST Naumov (later "strangled" by intrigues in "Gidropribor" - more about this will be in the article on USET-80);
- SSN UMGT-1 "Waterfall" (eventually installed (in a more powerful form) instead of SSN Naumov in the UST-A torpedo (USET-80));
- SSN MGT-1 "Kolibri" (our copy of the American Mk46 mod1, which later became the SSN "Ceramics");
- SSN MGT-3 and AT-2 (which became UAS "Sapphire").

A very interesting episode of work on the SP-20 was the use of divers:

In order to get an idea of ​​the structure, scale and configuration of ice irregularities reflecting and scattering sound, in the summer of 1970, a group of scuba divers from the Hydrographic Service of the Navy brought to the station carried out an underwater survey of the ice floe near the floes and photographing the most characteristic relief forms of the lower edge of the ice cover.

And already the torpedo-familiar "all is well beautiful marquise":

… The drift passed without emergency and faults. The ice floe turned out to be extremely reliable and durable. It was a pity to part with the habitable station and well-established technical facilities. In total, in the period from July 1970 to April 1971, several dozen hydroacoustic observation stations were carried out - sessions of work and tests of the CLS of all types. During the summer and winter seasons, the features of the under-ice propagation of sound and the functioning of the equipment in various modes in a wide range of operating frequencies, immersion depths and trims were investigated.


The results obtained confirmed the assumptions and predictions about severe hydroacoustic conditions for the operation of the CLS equipment under the ice cover of the Arctic and made it possible to develop a number of recommendations for improving the quality and reliability of the samples, both serial and experimental equipment.

The real test results (first of all, the "hopes of Gidropribor" - SSN "Waterfall") were such that everything was done so that more such tests would not be carried out. The scandal with the SSN "Waterfall" and USET-80 broke out already in 1983, although all the problems were clear from the beginning. They were “just” hidden and covered ...

Subsequently, already in the 80s, NPO Uran discussed plans to organize another research expedition to the Arctic to conduct stop full-scale tests of promising SSN samples, but the gaining momentum and economic reasons made their implementation impossible.

Translated into normal technical language, this means that the second time with SSN "Sapphire", "Waterfall", "Keramika" to go out to dishonor in the Arctic "Gidropribor" did not want and waited for the appearance of a new generation of SSNs ("Electronics" and "Pilon"). However, perestroika and the collapse of the USSR came much faster ...

Well, and once again about the bathyspheric tests:

2006 marked the 10th anniversary of the imperceptible exit from the structure of the institute's divisions of the bathyspheric sea trials sector. And for almost 15 years the boxes have not been packed, and the tough guys from the bathysphere team do not go on business trips to the training grounds. Maybe this is partly hidden the reason for the difficulties experienced by the 165th department (SSN) in the process of creating and testing new technology (SSN). Models - models, but the experiment has not been canceled. And it should be borne in mind that obtaining experimental information, for example, about the characteristics of the hydroacoustic channel, the levels of reverberation, the expected range of the CCH, the reflecting ability of various objects when using bathyspheres, it requires an order of magnitude lower costs compared to torpedo firing.

Here, it will be appropriate to recall that the great success with the development of the first domestic anti-submarine torpedo SET-53 was largely due to the large volume of bathyspheric work carried out by the Navy (namely the Navy - the mine and torpedo institute!), Which ensured its creation.

Today, this experience in the Navy and the military-industrial complex is not just “forgotten”, but “buried”, because if you start working seriously, very big problems in all torpedo ROCs (which are now hidden and covered) will be revealed.

Taking into account the unconditional need to fulfill the huge statistics of tests of torpedo launchers in the Arctic and the extremely high cost of a torpedo shot in the Russian Navy, it is bathyspheric tests that are very important, since they allow, at a minimum cost, to actually reveal most of the problems for their elimination. In the case of a single torpedo shot, instead, the organizers are faced with the need to work in obviously simplified conditions, without checking problematic issues (for example, firing at an icy submarine target).

PR and Silence Against Free Press and Public Opinion



First, a little history. From the book "Panama of the Russian fleet" Russian officer Boris Tageev:

All the telegrams about the combat readiness of the fleet flew, and the whole of Russia, through the rattling of weapons "Novoye Vremya" and similar publications, read about the mighty stronghold in the Far East in the person of the Pacific squadron.

Thanks to the lackey newspaper "Novy Kray", Lieutenant Colonel of the Maritime Department P.A. Artemyev, the combat training of our fleet was inflated to the last degree. Flattering, laudatory articles were reprinted by Russian newspapers, and the bribed French organ in Shanghai, "Echo de Chine", echoed its Amur comrade, fogging the already giddy heads of the sailors.

A "wonderful question" arises - what prevented Mr. Evmenov from conducting under-ice torpedo firing when he was Kom SF (from April 2016 to May 2019) or two years after that in the chair of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy?

At the same time, they publicly declared:

The Northern Fleet has tremendous experience in ice navigation and operation of submarines and surface ships in Arctic conditions ...
The main assessment criterion is the readiness to perform tasks according to its main purpose at sea. I have no doubt that today the Severomor submariners are ready to complete all assigned tasks 100% ...
We also closely monitor the activities of our subarctic neighbors in this region. We draw conclusions and on the basis of them we improve our training.

As a result, it was the public reaction (including at the "top") to the "Arctic torpedo scandal" that made it happen.

This is a very important point - the recent shooting has become possible. only thanks to the harsh statement in the media of very uncomfortable questions to the Navy in terms of under-ice torpedo firing.

Just a few examples.

1. "Forgotten underwater rake" ("MIC" 2019).

Ice fitness. We have never conducted torpedo firing in the Arctic, under the ice with homing systems turned on ... While we are actually engaged in "patrolling with fitness elements" in the Arctic, the enemy is practicing tough combat training there, being ready to immediately destroy our submarines upon receipt of an order.

2. The above article "ICEX - Arctic Threat for Russia" ("NVO", 2019).

3. Voennoye Obozreniye, 2019, Arctic Torpedo Scandal.

Articles published in "VPK", "NVO", "Voennoye Obozreniye" (and their "resonant coverage" in the Internet edition "Lenta") about the problems of combat readiness of the Northern Fleet's submarine forces (who have never carried out torpedo firing under the ice with working homing systems) caused a violent reaction: in the media, society, the Ministry of Defense and government bodies (up to official requests: "to understand and report").

4. "Voennoye Obozreniye", "The Fleet Going to Tsushima. Results of the Navy for 2020 ".

The real threats to Russia in Artik today come either from under ice and water (US and British submarines), or from the air (US Air Force).
And at least one torpedo firing under the ice with the included homing systems was carried out? No! The Navy has not been able to do this until now (despite the "ice torpedo scandal" a couple of years ago).

“A drop is hammering a stone”, all this was read (including at the “top” and among specialists - we will write about the reaction to articles of “VO” in the specialized press in the next materials). And the lack of ice firing of the Navy raised more and more questions ...

And finally, such a shooting was carried out.

But a beggarly one torpedo shot (with very significant forces involved and huge costs) raises a tough question - what was it all the same: a show for the Supreme and society or the beginning of a real solution to critical problems of the combat capability and combat readiness of the Russian Navy?

After all, once again - one torpedo is not enough to obtain all the necessary information about the work of its CLS under the ice. And there was exactly one torpedo!

There will be no conclusions this time. Let everyone do them himself. According to my experience, education and honesty.

And the real criterion of the meaningfulness of what happened and the answer to this most important tough question will be the facts of new firing and testing of torpedo weapons in the Arctic.
Author:
Photos used:
Maxar technologies, RF Ministry of Defense, US Navy.
185 comments
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  1. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx April 1 2021 03: 49
    +39
    ... If it is true - well, at least a third,
    There remains one thing - just go to die!

    The impression was that "eyewash" at the highest level became the norm in our life. It remains to ask (but who's it?): "What are the goals pursued by these two sides?" What, Comrade "Supreme" for twenty years has not learned to separate the wheat from the chaff? Or, is the “fellow speaker” thus extending his tenure?
    All this is disgusting. Especially the comparison with 1986.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 April 1 2021 08: 48
      +30
      ... tough question - what was it all the same: window dressing for Supreme and society or

      And the Supreme is not in the know, poor fellow! Cunning admirals are deceiving the "simple thing", they just twist around the finger!

      In fact, it was a window dressing for the sovereign for the brainwashed electorate. We don't do others on TV.
      1. barclay
        barclay April 2 2021 10: 55
        +2
        Quote: Stas157
        And the Supreme is not in the know, poor fellow! Cunning admirals are deceiving the "simple thing", they just twist around the finger!

        It's just that the Supreme, of course, is not an expert in all matters.
        And all the specialists, apparently, have learned very well how to rub glasses on to the Commander-in-Chief. And not only in the Navy. This is a rotten system that makes a "colossus with feet of clay" out of power.
        For example, a very depressing situation in the same military medicine.
      2. GYGOLA
        GYGOLA April 4 2021 15: 04
        +1
        In fact, it was a window dressing for the sovereign for the brainwashed electorate. We don't do others on TV.
        I think everyone has already noticed how the Supreme Commander knows how to work on camera with the government; talking to the camera is his strong point. Such conversations, correct, so that on the other side of the screen would burst out: "Oh yes, Putin!" just words. And to do on camera, to fix, not what you, even a vaccination. Well, he is not used to doing on camera, not used to it .. That's the talk, yes.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 April 1 2021 08: 50
      .
      Quote: ROSS 42
      The impression was that "eyewash" at the highest level became the norm in our life.

      Spectacle rubbing? Have you come up with a new term to belittle our successes?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 April 1 2021 09: 54
          .
          Quote: rudolff
          This term is at least half a century old and was actively used in satirical media back in the Soviet period.

          And how did he help preserve the USSR?
          1. Overlock
            Overlock April 1 2021 10: 12
            +39
            Quote: Boris55
            And how did he help preserve the USSR?

            And how does this help preserve Russia?
            1. frog
              frog April 1 2021 11: 19
              +5
              And it doesn't matter))) I just had to say something ...
      2. Snusmumrik
        Snusmumrik April 1 2021 17: 39
        0
        Let me guess .... Sarcasm ??
    3. seregatara1969
      seregatara1969 April 1 2021 22: 22
      -6
      A propaganda mouthpiece, not an article
    4. rjpthju
      rjpthju April 2 2021 09: 00
      +8
      Yes ... They raised such a triumphant noise ... How, supposedly, the Americans were scared ... And the Americans did it at the Pole 35 (Thirty-five) years ago ... Depressing ... Shame. All around window dressing, shapkozakidatelstvo. This suggests an analogy with the pre-war film "If there is war tomorrow." History has taught nothing.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 1 2021 03: 53
    +2
    - DIMK, and DIMK! The torpedoes are of the wrong system!
    - Oh, everything! laughing laughing

    I hope the respected author is still somewhat exaggerating, but healthy paranoia is better than unhealthy optimism!



    For example, the first group ascent of three submarines (and at the North Pole) during the ICEX exercise was carried out back in 1986!

    In general, it is clear that amerskie boats have surfaced in a hole with thin ice or even sludge, in contrast to ours, where the ice is 0,7 m minimum.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. timokhin-aa
        April 1 2021 10: 25
        +10
        The rocket deck of the 667s turned out to be above the ice. Plus the wormwood in the photo - also for a reason, although Max did not elaborate on the question (including at my request).
        So I would not put the choice of the area into a claim.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. dSK
            dSK April 1 2021 13: 18
            +1
            The States used helicopters to catch a dozen of their torpedoes. And for these exercises in the North. our helicopters will not reach the poles, they cannot be refueled in flight. Torpedo firing in the White Sea is more real ...
      2. val43
        val43 April 1 2021 12: 42
        +21
        God with you! Back in 1981, I was part of the K-447 SSBN crew when we surfaced in pack ice. So despite the thickness of the ice more than a meter, we surfaced normally. They also fired a volley of two missiles at the Kura training ground. Commander - Captain 1st Rank L.R. Kuversky, senior captain of the 1st rank E.D. Baltin.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr April 1 2021 13: 24
          .
          Quote: val43
          Back in 1981, I was part of the K-447 SSBN crew when we surfaced in pack ice. So, despite the ice thickness of more than a meter, we surfaced normally. They also fired a volley of two missiles at the Kura training ground.

          And now it was necessary to repeat this so that everyone would understand why they were emerging, and that would be correct. Why this was not done is a mystery to me, the author of the article does not say anything about this either. All his references to Tsushima and submarine campaigns in the fifties and sixties are generally at the level of children's fairy tales, because this is no longer relevant, at least from the point of view that then there was no Strategic Missile Forces.
          All Klimov's crying about torpedoes against the background of missile launches is not worth a damn - SSBNs are not needed to destroy the enemy's fleet, but to destroy the territory of the United States and they have no other tasks. And therefore, the main task is not to improve torpedoes, but to look for ways to escape our SSBNs from being pursued by the enemy using technical and organizational methods, which at the moment is the main task of the submarine fleet, as I imagine it.
          1. timokhin-aa
            April 1 2021 13: 35
            +16
            All Klimov's crying about torpedoes against the background of missile launches is not worth a damn - SSBNs are not needed to destroy the enemy's fleet, but to destroy the territory of the United States and they have no other tasks.


            And how to live to receive the order to launch without weapons, huh? Well, please the audience.
            1. Foxnova
              Foxnova April 1 2021 19: 23
              0
              Everyone knows how they love the miners on the rpskn.
              1. Aag
                Aag April 1 2021 20: 35
                +4
                I don’t know (sorry, not that VUS).
                If not difficult, please explain.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
            2. lopvlad
              lopvlad April 2 2021 08: 26
              +1
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              And how to live to receive an order to start without a weapon


              as well as, for example, the American B-21 survives, which does not have any self-defense weapons other than REBs. You were rightly pointed out that the role of SSBNs is not to fight with enemy submarines and surface ships, but to covertly deliver and strike nuclear missiles on the territory of a potential enemy ...
              And if such a boat was discovered before it managed to strike at the enemy's territory, then even super-modern torpedoes will no longer help it, since the data on its location are already known at the enemy's headquarters and there is no chance of surviving.
              Just as there is almost no chance for SSBNs to survive immediately after launching nuclear missiles at enemy territory, because the launch site of such missiles from under the water can be seen from a satellite and the enemy will strike at the coordinates obtained.
              1. timokhin-aa
                April 2 2021 10: 10
                +4
                as well as for example the American B-21 survives, having no self-defense weapons other than REBs.


                And how will Raider survive if he has a Su-35S on his tail within visual range? Tell me how, I'm very interested.

                You were correctly pointed out that the role of SSBNs is not to engage in combat with enemy submarines and surface ships


                Your pointer did not grow to indicate to me. In our country, 80-100 percent of SSBNs in combat services are monitored by American and British submarines, their commanders have an order, given acoustic signs of preparation for launch (occupation of the launch depth, work with rudders and ballast tanks, etc.) to immediately drown.

                In fact, NOT ONE of our submarines will be able to fire off missiles without destroying the hunter who is watching her, who is ALWAYS
                1. lopvlad
                  lopvlad April 2 2021 16: 22
                  -5
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  We have 80-100 percent of SSBNs in combat services are tracked by American and British submarines


                  I have not heard such outright nonsense and at the same time propaganda of the superiority of the West.
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    April 2 2021 22: 03
                    +7
                    These are realities.
                    And this statistics was not taken from the ceiling according to the results of checks of the presence of tracking, which were carried out by anti-submarine aviation.
                    There was a special order on this topic.

                    Just stupidly behind the boat, the intercepting buoys were set up, and after 20-30 minutes the Americans quietly crawled through it.

                    That's all. These are realities.
                    If there is real interest in these issues, then -
                    https://topwar.ru/173104-na-ostrie-podvodnogo-protivostojanija-holodnaja-vojna-podplava.html

                    There are also working maps of anti-submarine warriors with detections, and evidence of submariners from both sides.
              2. vic02
                vic02 April 2 2021 10: 26
                0
                as well as survives, for example, an American B-21 that does not have any self-defense weapons other than REB
                Bad comparison. The B-21 will not be allowed on a single flight for "covert delivery" without air and ground protection.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  April 2 2021 12: 50
                  +2
                  Just stealth is for single actions, the covering forces unmask them.
                  You can check out the finishing off of the reactor in Osirak in 1991, this is a classic example of a stealth attack.
                  1. vic02
                    vic02 April 2 2021 13: 18
                    0
                    Stealth is exactly for single actions.
                    There were not unarmed bomb carriers participating, so they could stand up for themselves, if anything. But in general, no, they are not intended for single actions. Possibly as an exception for specific conditions. And then, there must be some kind of distraction. Covering forces do not unmask stealth, but help to accomplish a certain task, while actually performing the task of camouflaging.
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      April 2 2021 22: 04
                      +1
                      There were not unarmed bomb carriers participating, so they could stand up for themselves, if anything.


                      I'm talking about an American strike. The F-117s were there. quite unarmed, except for laser-guided bombs. Classic stealth attacks.
              3. ccsr
                ccsr April 2 2021 12: 37
                -2
                Quote: lopvlad
                And if such a boat was discovered before it managed to strike at the enemy's territory, then even super-modern torpedoes will no longer help it, since the data on its location are already known at the enemy's headquarters and there is no chance of surviving.
                Just as there is almost no chance for SSBNs to survive immediately after launching nuclear missiles at enemy territory, because the launch site of such missiles from under the water can be seen from a satellite and the enemy will strike at the coordinates obtained.

                It's strange, but I thought that all the professionals understood this at a glance, but as it turned out, the cool naval commander Klimov and the no less pissed journalist Timokhin could not think of this before, which means they will again push us different nonsense about torpedoes, and about how we should destroy enemy ships, in a word, all that nonsense that they carry for many years at different sites.
                I am not at all surprised by the answers to Klimov's appeals - they immediately understand who they are dealing with, which is why they get off with formal replies.
            3. Barberry25
              Barberry25 April 2 2021 10: 03
              +1
              well, for the sake of justice, it is worth noting that half of the article is the author's reflections in view of the complete lack of access to information ... And then DIMK adds salt to him ... it will be interesting if it turns out that the launches were new torpedoes
              1. timokhin-aa
                April 2 2021 10: 11
                +2
                Yes, the comrades involved have already reported what kind of torpedo they fired there. The author's article is a little out of date.
                But there is nothing to rejoice at at all.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 April 2 2021 12: 15
                  0
                  those. let them guess .. did the physicist shoot? Well, but seriously, the launch was just that for working out the technology, and not for mass
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    April 2 2021 12: 51
                    +5
                    No, not a physicist and no, not for testing.
                    But this became known only yesterday.
                    I do not want to reveal details, maybe later someone will light up this information. there is nothing to be happy about.
                    1. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 April 2 2021 16: 10
                      0
                      it means that it became boring during the exercises and a torpedo was launched))) "we will believe"
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        April 2 2021 22: 06
                        +2
                        You do not need to make jokes, this is not very funny.
          2. Overlock
            Overlock April 1 2021 17: 26
            +24
            Quote: ccsr
            All Klimov's crying about torpedoes against the background of missile launches is not worth a damn - SSBNs are not needed to destroy the enemy's fleet, but to destroy the territory of the United States and they have no other tasks.

            Then why would they need torpedoes in principle? laughing
            1. ccsr
              ccsr April 1 2021 18: 27
              -4
              Quote: Overlock
              Then why would they need torpedoes in principle?
              I believe that they cannot be used for torpedo attacks, which means they must receive operational information about the enemy, and try not to approach them at a torpedo launch distance.
              Naturally, the enemy will not allow separation, which is why it is necessary to improve the technique of false targets, and to improve the methods of jamming enemy ships with the help of our surface and air means, including the release of specialized buoys.
              There is no other way.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              And how to live to receive the order to launch without weapons, huh?

              In the same way as the rest - to release all the ammunition before they are destroyed. But this is a more complex issue that you have no idea about.
              Why on earth should we risk strategic weapons, for the sake of your desires to have whatever you want on the nuclear submarine?
              1. Overlock
                Overlock April 1 2021 20: 26
                +30
                Quote: ccsr
                But this is a more complex issue that you have no idea about.

                But this does not prevent you from thinking logically! Do you need self-defense? And then, in the world there is not a single nuclear submarine that did not have torpedo armament. And this is not a whim. A simple example: the nuclear submarine goes to shoot at America and then, along the way, meets the "Iowa". The commander of the nuclear submarine calls a submarine with torpedoes (there are none of his own), but he himself moves on?
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr April 1 2021 21: 55
                  -6
                  Quote: Overlock
                  But this does not prevent you from thinking logically! Do you need self-defense?

                  So it is - it was laid down in the TTZ. And we are being forced to think that we have very bad torpedoes in the fleet, although only a fool can believe that our naval commanders will allow a situation for SSBNs to find themselves in a threatened period in the place where enemy ships can attack them with torpedoes.
                  Quote: Overlock
                  And then, in the world there is not a single nuclear submarine that did not have torpedo armament.

                  But this is not the main weapon for SSBNs - the Tu-95 also has AM-23 cannons in different places, but this does not mean that we need to improve them or they are bad. And if you upgrade something on this aircraft, then the guns are the last - this is how you need to approach the assessment of the armament of any strategic product.
                  Quote: Overlock
                  A simple example: the nuclear submarine goes to shoot at America and then, along the way, meets the "Iowa".

                  Well, what are the dumbheads at the naval headquarters and cannot tell the submarine commander to change course in order not to be around? As far as I know, the operational situation is constantly brought to the attention of the commanders of submarines - it cannot be otherwise.
                  Quote: Overlock
                  The commander of the nuclear submarine calls a submarine with torpedoes (there are none of his own), but he himself moves on?

                  You are exaggerating - I did not say that torpedoes are not needed at all, I am only against the hysteria that Klimov and Timokhin staged here about our backwardness in this weaponry.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. timokhin-aa
                    April 2 2021 10: 13
                    +7
                    And we are being forced to think that we have very bad torpedoes in the fleet, although only a fool can believe that our naval commanders will allow a situation for SSBNs to find themselves in a threatened period in the place where enemy ships can attack them with torpedoes.


                    Chudik, when in the 80s they began to check whether there was tracking of our boats, they found out that in 80% of cases the boat is tracked by "Sturgeon" or "Los Angeles".
                    Since then, they have only widened the opportunity gap with us.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr April 2 2021 12: 27
                      -5
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      Since then, they have only widened the opportunity gap with us.

                      Lies, if only because the noise of our boats is reduced, and rubberized boats are more difficult to detect. But this is not the point, but the fact that the journalist Timokhin will never know what methods and techniques will be used to suppress the detection systems of our SSBNs in a threatened period, up to sabotage.
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        April 2 2021 12: 52
                        +3
                        You are insane. What are you talking about?
                      2. Anzhey V.
                        Anzhey V. April 4 2021 20: 43
                        +2
                        You are insane. What are you talking about?


                        What do you want from a person who licks a Chinese boot everywhere in the comments, admiring the country that, during his years of service, sponsored the murder of Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan?)))
                      3. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik April 4 2021 20: 47
                        0
                        In Russia, every fourth person needs psychological help, every eighth needs psychiatric help. How many of these people do you think are in this open source?
                      4. Anzhey V.
                        Anzhey V. April 4 2021 20: 52
                        0
                        I'm afraid to estimate at least an approximate number, Ser Kitty, but definitely much more than I would like to see)
  • Runway
    Runway April 1 2021 04: 00
    +6
    Exactly". But adjusted for the ancient "bread and circuses" in the Theater there are always two "actors". Well, A.S. Pushkin is right ...
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad April 1 2021 04: 33
    .
    This is a very important point - the recent shooting became possible only thanks to the harsh formulation in the media of very uncomfortable questions to the Navy in terms of ice torpedo firing.


    the idea that everything in the Russian army happens thanks to the release of this or that scribble can only occur to rapists over letters, words and sentences.
    In general, judging by the reaction in the media to the Umka-2021 exercise of the Russian Navy, all the military and political tasks set by the top Russian leadership have been achieved.
    In the west, they put on their pink pants and try to convince their own and Russian audiences through the media that the Umka-2021 exercises of the Russian Navy is not an achievement but a failure.
    1. Operator
      Operator April 1 2021 09: 42
      .
      Not just through the media, but specifically through Voennoye Obozreniye, signed by Hydromayor.

      His colleagues - foreign agents immediately jump out in the comments and start hysteria about pensions, failures in foreign policy, etc. according to the training manual of the State Department.

      Hydromayor is absolutely unaware of the specific events that took place during the Arctic exercises, and the OCD in the field of hydroacoustic devices and torpedoes, but he is doing a good job.
      1. Overlock
        Overlock April 1 2021 10: 18
        +33
        Quote: Operator
        hysteria about pensions, failures in foreign policy, etc. according to the training manual of the State Department.

        We start parsing:
        1. Pension reform - in your opinion, everything is done correctly? - In your opinion. everything is correct. But if you remember Putin, then no: "When planning the pension reform, the government proceeded from the fact that there will be a positive financial result for several years from these measures. But after the adoption of the presidential amendments, it became clear that there would be no income, but, on the contrary, the government will have to finance the presidential amendments. ”Putin himself admitted to his failure, but the residue remained. You obviously don't read this - you’re all using the manual.
        2. Failures in foreign policy, your proof by contradiction .... In my opinion, in a flash, failures are Ukraine, Belarus, Azerbaijan. The list goes on.
      2. timokhin-aa
        April 1 2021 10: 26
        +11
        Andryusha, Maxim wrote the method of these firing if that.
        1. Alceers
          Alceers April 8 2021 09: 26
          0
          Ay, here Klimov was caught once again completely out of touch with the real information .... And outstanding conceit. Hmm ... And the program and methodology and plans were developed by people who, at the mention of his name, only twisted their fingers at their temples.
      3. GEOID
        GEOID April 1 2021 12: 03
        +5
        Quote: Operator
        Hydromayor

        And who is this, if not a secret?
        Logically, a firefighter, or is it correct - "firefighter."?
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Alexander Lysenko
        Alexander Lysenko April 2 2021 23: 26
        +2
        ... Why do you think that MO releases are true ?! Pink pony.
        1. GEOID
          GEOID April 3 2021 13: 24
          +1
          Precisely because I'm a naive pink pony. (((
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. timokhin-aa
      April 1 2021 10: 25
      +12
      This is some kind of reality of a fairy-tale elf born yesterday.
      All those who are interested and involved have been aware of torpedo cases for many years.
    4. DominickS
      DominickS April 2 2021 12: 35
      +3
      In "pink pants" in the West, if they did, then, perhaps, out of laughter.
  • Denis Rumyanny
    Denis Rumyanny April 1 2021 04: 48
    +5
    Hard. But this has been the way since the time of Peter 1. They built ships at the cost of millions of lives. Then the prodigies rotted in the port and went for firewood. When a real mess happened - the war was pulled out by a simple Vanka with a rifle on the shore. Again at the cost of a thousand lives. So it was near Poltava, Borodino, Stalingrad. Only the last Tsar finally realized that the Russian destroyer was the Trans-Siberian Railway. History repeats itself. History teaches us that it teaches nothing.
  • maiman61
    maiman61 April 1 2021 05: 12
    +32
    Compared to the absolute lie about the "happy" life of Russian citizens under Putin, high wages and pensions, complete degradation of the economy, destruction of small business, absolute failure in foreign policy, things with torpedo weapons look just perfect!
    1. Flooding
      Flooding April 1 2021 07: 09
      .
      Quote: maiman61
      Compared to the absolute lie about the "happy" life of Russian citizens under Putin, high wages and pensions, complete degradation of the economy, destruction of small business, absolute failure in foreign policy, things with torpedo weapons look just perfect!

      in this case the converse is also true
      since the situation with torpedoes in the Navy regarding the problems you mentioned is ideal, then
      no pensions are paid
      there is no small business
      foreign policy was drunk

      With such an objective and unbiased view of serious problems, you cannot even solve 2 + 2 problems
  • jonht
    jonht April 1 2021 05: 29
    +13
    Tough, but in fact everything is most likely the case. The Supreme is not God and not the devil, he should not know everything and understand everything. And the affairs of the Navy for him, apparently, are slices. Plus, our Ministry of Defense has been looking askance at the fleet for a long time, everyone wants money and they are no exception, and if we consider that if there are naval units in the General Staff, then their scanty and vryatli they have weight.
    The second misfortune of our Navy, industry, and the lack of sane TTZ for ships and their equipment and weapons.
    Again, where do all the naval retirees go ... That's right in USC, so what is there to talk about ...
    1. Runway
      Runway April 1 2021 05: 40
      0
      In the non-Red Army, BP is at the same level as in the Navy. And in this part the question of money / financial means is deeply secondary.
      1. jonht
        jonht April 1 2021 06: 32
        +5
        An acquaintance, already a major, serves in a Marine Corps unit, is located almost in the center of PK, on ​​the "Siluet", and so he complains that they have exercises of different levels at least twice a year, and the range every quarter ... And I myself often observe their advance to the landfill. But the Kamchatka fleet does not have the same movement. Submarines, yes they go out and work out, but NKs are very rarely washed even in the roadstead ... hi
        1. Runway
          Runway April 1 2021 07: 07
          +6
          For your friend, "already a major" is a discovery Two training periods in the army, when from year to year there is a "run" of l / s units through exercises on two main topics of OT? "Every quarter - with shooting" - something new in the OP ...
          A fighter in the order of individual training / squad / platoon and company (capacity of the training field of the shooting range) must fire from muskets and group per month - 3 (1 night) / 2 (1 night) / 2 (1 night). Those. each military unit of the company per month must have 7 "fire days", 4 of which are in the form of a Complex field exit (classes), where, against the background of the Theme, there are classes in TP, VIP, SV, topography, physio, ZOMP, medicine and EP.
          This is for any "infantry".
          Ask your familiar "already major" how their shooting range / shooting director is oriented to the cardinal points. wink And how often the target arrangement changes in the directions of the exercises by the shooting team. And how often do the group / bbm calculations work out practical interchangeability.
          1. jonht
            jonht April 1 2021 07: 51
            +2
            When he started his service, this was not in such a volume, and in my opinion this is an indicator, I wrote about it by his example that there was no such movement in the Navy and there is no such movement.
            1. Runway
              Runway April 1 2021 08: 52
              +5
              Your acquaintance, since "already a major", at least started a summer at the "sunset of Serdyukov" (when the shrinkage / shrinkage had already happened). And what he "complains" to you (if he is frank) - then he complains about the "pale shadow" of the KBP standard.
              For the sake of joke, you will ask him the above questions and “digest” his answers over a glass of tea (the number of commercials is 28.05.21/XNUMX/XNUMX).
              Then the "solitaire" will be formed.
              "High performance BP" alas, break down on the reality of the database. Any unit (even 100% contracted) will fail to perform the familiar OP exercise with a probability closer to 100%. Alas.
          2. Aag
            Aag April 1 2021 20: 41
            +3
            Quote: WFP
            For your friend, "already a major" is a discovery Two training periods in the army, when from year to year there is a "run" of l / s units through exercises on two main topics of OT? "Every quarter - with shooting" - something new in the OP ...
            A fighter in the order of individual training / squad / platoon and company (capacity of the training field of the shooting range) must fire from muskets and group per month - 3 (1 night) / 2 (1 night) / 2 (1 night). Those. each military unit of the company per month must have 7 "fire days", 4 of which are in the form of a Complex field exit (classes), where, against the background of the Theme, there are classes in TP, VIP, SV, topography, physio, ZOMP, medicine and EP.
            This is for any "infantry".
            Ask your familiar "already major" how their shooting range / shooting director is oriented to the cardinal points. wink And how often the target arrangement changes in the directions of the exercises by the shooting team. And how often do the group / bbm calculations work out practical interchangeability.

            You are straight with a sickle ... according to BP of many types, types of the sun ...
            The main expenses at the beginning of the academic semester on PAPER !!! Plans, orders, reports ...
            --Creating a "picture" ... (((
            1. Runway
              Runway April 1 2021 22: 48
              +2
              If I'm wrong, indicate where.
              And paper with "refreshed" dates (like notes) is, yes.
              1. Aag
                Aag April 2 2021 08: 12
                0
                Quote: WFP
                If I'm wrong, indicate where.
                And paper with "refreshed" dates (like notes) is, yes.

                Alas, right ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl April 1 2021 22: 32
      +1
      Quote: jonht
      The second misfortune of our Navy, industry, and lack of sane TTZ on ships and their equipment and weapons.
      allow (!), but who composes them, if not customer (represented by the Navy) ?! and if he (customer), why agrees to that that instead of this offers him (and sells) it is the industry (represented by USC) ... ? !! belay winked
      1. jonht
        jonht April 2 2021 00: 09
        +5
        Read where the high ranks of the Navy are retiring, and the question will be closed by the subwoofer .... If you are lazy, then I will tell you, almost everyone is in high positions in the USC and related structures.
  • Lepsik
    Lepsik April 1 2021 05: 37
    .
    --- that for the US Navy for a quarter of a century it has been a "routine of combat training

    For 25 years, the naval staff of the US Navy have not dried out from drugs, regularly burning their submarines, then crashing into rocks under water. The Brita have been carrying prostitutes on them for a long time.

    Of course, the Navy will not give all the details to the American hirelings who are so fervently promoting their sponsors.
    1. Denis Rumyanny
      Denis Rumyanny April 1 2021 05: 42
      +12
      You forgot to write in America, blacks lynched, and we need your carrier
      1. Mikhalych 70
        Mikhalych 70 April 1 2021 17: 39
        +7
        You have old information. Nowadays niggas put whites on their knees.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day April 1 2021 09: 33
      +5
      Quote: Lepsik
      regularly burning their submarines, then crashing into rocks under water. Brita have been carrying prostitutes on them for so long

      Participated? Do you know how the girl was removed from the ship going to the BS to Mediterranean. It was a long time ago, the chief executive officer told us in 82
  • leks
    leks April 1 2021 05: 44
    +20
    Who among the command staff, in their right mind, will dare to report to the Supreme Commander that torpedo firing with one torpedo is not at all an indicator of what is happening in the fleet.
    The supreme himself nodded his head, congratulated without any questions on the accomplished task.
    Why ask unnecessary questions, in the looking-glass RF with fake statistics in all directions, the upper classes live well, and the people will somehow tolerate.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day April 1 2021 09: 34
      +7
      Quote: leks
      The supreme himself nodded his head, congratulated

      And awarded, it should be laughing
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty April 1 2021 05: 55
    +27
    It will end with the fact that the site will be "put on a harness", and it will be forbidden to publish articles of both Timokhin and Klimov! Someone is calmer and more profitable to splurge than to actually solve a lot of problems! And so we all have beautiful, but false reports, and the helplessly unarmed Armed Forces of the country!
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 April 1 2021 06: 51
      +10
      Quote: Thrifty
      It will end with the fact that the site will be "draped with a harness", and it will be forbidden to publish articles of both Timokhin and Klimov!

      Yes, we have already told the authors that articles should be sent to Kremlin.ru simultaneously with the site. There is no real sense from the fact that we find out here there is no one, only nerves and a loss of faith in the state. Nerves are personal problems of everyone, but the second is fraught.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 April 1 2021 08: 41
        .
        Quote: NDR-791
        There is no real sense from the fact that we find out here there is no one, only nerves and a loss of faith in the state.

        This is the meaning of all anti-Russian articles. When they succeed in defeating the Russian spirit, little remains to be done - "our" elite is ready for betrayal ...
        1. New Year day
          New Year day April 1 2021 09: 35
          +11
          Quote: Boris55
          our "elite is ready for betrayal ...

          She's been ready for a long time
        2. AK1972
          AK1972 April 1 2021 12: 19
          +7
          Quote: Boris55
          "our" elite is ready for betrayal ...

          Led by the main nullified "elite".
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 April 1 2021 08: 43
      .
      Quote: Thrifty
      And so we all have beautiful, but false reports, and the helplessly unarmed Armed Forces of the country!

      Are you talking about Crimea now, about Syria?
      1. New Year day
        New Year day April 1 2021 09: 36
        +16
        Quote: Boris55
        Are you talking about Crimea now, about Syria?

        Are all the chiki-chiki there?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 April 1 2021 09: 47
          .
          Quote: Silvestr
          She's been ready for a long time

          So you admit that there is a fifth column in power. laughing

          Quote: Silvestr
          Are all the chiki-chiki there?

          Crimea:
          Do you want to ask if there are disadvantages? Completely. But every year there are fewer and fewer of them. On the agenda are new ones, which were not even suspected until recently - there was no time for that.

          Syria:
          Before us, ~ 90% of the territory in Syria was occupied by the irregular army of the West. After we entered there, ~ 90% of the territory in Syria was returned to the legitimate government.
          The West lost to Russia.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day April 1 2021 09: 50
            +9
            Quote: Boris55
            Do you want to ask if there are disadvantages? Completely. But every year there are fewer and fewer of them.

            That's good
            Quote: Boris55
            90% of the territory in Syria has been returned to the legitimate government.
            The West lost to Russia.

            Do not count your chickens before they are hatched. That the war in Syria ended for us, Putin reported 6 years ago. So all the "hockey"
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 April 1 2021 09: 52
              -7
              Quote: Silvestr
              That the war in Syria ended for us, Putin reported 6 years ago.

              Do not pass off your thoughts as Putin's words.
              It was said that the ISIS state no longer exists. Whether terrorism is defeated, the irregular army of the West is not. For this it is necessary to destroy the West - the main sponsor of terrorism.
              1. New Year day
                New Year day April 1 2021 09: 56
                +5
                Quote: Boris55
                that the ISIS state no longer exists.

                Of course it does not exist, but the war is going on. Who are you fighting with? With pyramids?
                Oh yes! You are now at war with the Turkish army! In general, enough misinformation to drive
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 April 1 2021 09: 59
                  -8
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Who are you fighting with?

                  State ISIS - exists?

                  On whom our pilots practice their skills in a combat situation, re-read my post above.
                  1. Fan-fan
                    Fan-fan April 1 2021 13: 24
                    +10
                    Borya don't have to lie
                    90% of the territory in Syria has been returned to the legitimate government.
                    The West lost to Russia.
                    Here is an article about 63% of the territory. And who has the entire left bank of the Euphrates? And who has the main oil fields?
                    https://rossaprimavera.ru/news/db581103
          2. Overlock
            Overlock April 1 2021 10: 22
            +30
            Quote: Boris55
            So you admit that there is a fifth column in power.

            Binomial theorem! Old data, but I guess nothing has changed

          3. parma
            parma April 1 2021 11: 10
            +11
            Quote: Boris55
            Quote: Silvestr
            She's been ready for a long time

            So you admit that there is a fifth column in power. laughing

            Quote: Silvestr
            Are all the chiki-chiki there?

            Crimea:
            Do you want to ask if there are disadvantages? Completely. But every year there are fewer and fewer of them. On the agenda are new ones, which were not even suspected until recently - there was no time for that.

            Syria:
            Before us, ~ 90% of the territory in Syria was occupied by the irregular army of the West. After we entered there, ~ 90% of the territory in Syria was returned to the legitimate government.
            The West lost to Russia.

            I understand that this will not be an argument for you, but here is an article on the control of zones in Syria, there is a map
            https://amp.topwar.ru/175061-situacija-v-sirii-na-segodnjashnij-den-s-zonami-kontrolja.html
            If you have opened it, then you see - not about 90% of the question is out of the question ... moreover - the oil fields (the only real source of money in Syria) are far from being controlled by the CAA ... about the quality and morale of the Syrian army, you can find out from sources specializing on our PMCs ... They do all the work, the Syrian army and our military commander bring in when everything is cleaned up and it is necessary to shoot a report for the zombie ... as soon as the PMCs are transferred to another front, the SAA scatters - the loss of Palmyra is an example to you ...
            accordingly, Mr. Assad feeds and keeps only thanks to our help, while the Americans and Kurds are at least self-sufficient ... Are you sure that this is a "victory"?
            1. Overlock
              Overlock April 1 2021 17: 30
              +28
              Quote: parma
              accordingly, Mr. Assad feeds and keeps only thanks to our help

              Reminds Najibullah
        2. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl April 1 2021 22: 41
          +2
          Quote: Silvestr
          Boris55 Are you talking about Crimea now, about Syria?

          Are all the chiki-chiki there?
          And on Earth there are generally places where everything would be - chiki-chiki ?!
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A April 1 2021 19: 55
        +5
        Quote: Boris55
        Quote: Thrifty
        And so we all have beautiful, but false reports, and the helplessly unarmed Armed Forces of the country!

        Are you talking about Crimea now, about Syria?


        And what has changed in Syria since 2016?
        Has the influence become strong?
        Maybe the Kurds no longer hold 30% of the territory of Syria, where all the oil is concentrated?
        Maybe the Turks (who were not in Syria at all in 2015) do not hold 15% of the northern, most fertile part of Syria?

        Maybe Assad has only one desert? And the fact that it is unrealistic to control in principle and his troops are hammering from all sides, and in most settlements, complete anarchy?

        Or maybe our troops are already at 10 bases?

        So what's in Syria?
    3. timokhin-aa
      April 1 2021 10: 28
      +3
      We tried it more than once.
    4. ccsr
      ccsr April 1 2021 13: 42
      .
      Quote: Thrifty
      It will end with the fact that the site will be "draped with a harness", and it will be forbidden to publish articles of both Timokhin and Klimov!

      Don't panic as Nobody reads their articles there at all, so they go out of their way to prove how advanced they are, and all who serve in the Navy are notorious scoundrels and scoundrels who lead us to the new Tsushima. I carefully read the reports and letters of Klimov to the minister and the president, and the answers to them, and immediately realized that the authors of the answers perceive him as another urban madman, that is why they get off with the usual phrase "does not correspond to reality." Believe me, if there was something serious in Klimov's messages, he would certainly have been summoned for a conversation at least to the ordering structures of the Navy. And since they got off with a formal reply, it means they realized that he did not deserve more due to the lack of constructive proposals.
      Quote: Thrifty
      Someone is calmer and more profitable to splurge than to actually solve a lot of problems!

      Someone has known for a long time that the fleet will no longer play the same role for Russia as it did in the 20th century, which is why they look at everything differently. Those who do not understand this, like Klimov and Timokhin, shout at every corner - "Help, the fleet is dead, we will lose the war with America!"
      Although in the texts of these two authors I am alarmed by their constant praise of the American fleet - why would it, especially since they have enough mess, as experts know about.
  • parusnik
    parusnik April 1 2021 06: 01
    +3
    If tomorrow is a war, if the enemy attacks ... Laugh, merry Tanks ..
  • Alexilyin
    Alexilyin April 1 2021 07: 32
    +10
    "Spectacle cleaning" in recent decades has reached a colossal level. At all levels and areas. And this will not lead to any good. But I want to believe in the best.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 April 1 2021 08: 37
      .
      Quote: Alexilyin
      "Spectacle cleaning" in recent decades has reached a colossal level.

      To call our achievements allegedly eyewash, for this you have to be completely blind or outright traitor, belittling our achievements and protecting the interests of a potential enemy.
      1. Alexilyin
        Alexilyin April 1 2021 09: 00
        +18
        Boris55 (Boris) Let's just say .. I have been working in the structure for many years in a good position. being touted as a super duper, etc., and I know what I'm talking about. And as an event or an exercise, then the superiors say: - "We are a host (not a curse, for censorship), how and what will happen, do not care how it goes, the main thing is that the photos are beautiful and the report too" And look for traitors in your head. hi I'm sorry for the Country!
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 April 1 2021 09: 18
          .
          Quote: Alexilyin
          I'm sorry for the Country!

          There are always drawbacks and striving for the best is natural.
          Is it possible to compare our army of the 90s model with the current one?
          Do you have any achievements? And this is the main thing.

          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. timokhin-aa
              April 1 2021 10: 29
              +10
              Yes, this is a bot uryakalka, he has no idea about anything.
          2. bk0010
            bk0010 April 1 2021 10: 23
            +3
            Quote: Boris55
            Is it possible to compare our army of the 90s model with the current one?
            Damn, are you serious? Well, compare, you will be shocked by how it has dried up. In 1992, the staff was 2.87 mln people. Now the staff is 1.9 million.
          3. Overlock
            Overlock April 1 2021 10: 27
            +26
            Quote: Boris55
            There are always drawbacks and striving for the best is natural.
            Is it possible to compare our army of the 90s model with the current one?
            Do you have any achievements? And this is the main thing.


            They themselves wanted ...

            BOD "Ochakov"

            BOD "Kerch"

            2019 year. Sevastopol. The sunken submarine B-380 of the Russian Black Sea Fleet with the floating dock PD-16
            1. frog
              frog April 1 2021 11: 24
              +8
              Well, right word, what are you? Man at work ...
          4. Aag
            Aag April 1 2021 20: 47
            0
            Quote: Boris55
            Quote: Alexilyin
            I'm sorry for the Country!

            There are always drawbacks and striving for the best is natural.
            Is it possible to compare our army of the 90s model with the current one?
            Do you have any achievements? And this is the main thing.


            And this is a photo not from Latvia, where Indians were taught in the 80s, Bolderaja?
  • leks
    leks April 1 2021 07: 34
    +13
    Quote: ROSS 42
    The impression was that "eyewash" at the highest level became the norm in our life.

    Unfortunately, this happens not only at the highest level. Starting from the administrations of schools, hospitals, districts, regions and republics, all chiefs, directors and managers are engaged in "eyewash". None of these so-called leaders will ever tell the truth in the face, about the real average salary, about the real mortality rate, about the real life expectancy, and so on and so forth. Because they are afraid for their positions, their careers and their wallets.
    Imagine that some head of public health in one of the oblasts says on the air that the real life expectancy is 60 years and it cannot jump by 9, 12 years in ten years. He was refuted at once on all federal channels, in the evening primetime on the talk show
    "respected officials and experts" will put everything on the shelves about how people actually live happily ever after, and the head of health is a radish.
    As a result, some health care director will say that he was misunderstood, apologize and resign of his own free will.
    Everyone understands everything on this, no one will rock the boat and tell the truth.
    As they say, the truth is not in fashion now and is not needed by anyone.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day April 1 2021 09: 38
      +9
      Quote: leks
      Imagine that some head of health in one of the areas,

      This is impossible in principle! If you write the TRUTH in the annual reports, then there will be no one in their places except the minister. He will never tell the truth
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 April 1 2021 09: 59
      +5
      Imagine that some head of public health in one of the oblasts says on the air that the real life expectancy is 60 years and it cannot jump by 9, 12 years in ten years.

      In fact, no one can say that, because:
      1. Life expectancy is calculated for those born this year, it is assumed on the basis of some factors, and will happen when those born now live up to the predicted date.
      2. The calculated life expectancy has nothing to do with those living now.
      3. These are the rules of statistics, but they prefer not to talk about them. Although it turns out that what was said is half-truth and even worse than a lie.
      In general, as one of the classics said, there is a lie, there is a blatant lie and there is statistics.
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan April 1 2021 13: 45
        +5
        I have been living for a long time and I want to say that now the scale of lies is simply amazing. Any official is afraid to tell the truth, as he will instantly fly out of service. Recently I learned that they have classified the data on the ecological situation in Siberia, where, for example, Krasnoyarsk is recognized as the city with the dirtiest air. Also among the "leaders" are Irkutsk and Norilsk, and the officials themselves propose not to disturb the population, to silence the situation, since the people may demand the closure of dirty enterprises, and the oligarchs cannot agree to this.
    3. Igoresha
      Igoresha April 4 2021 19: 28
      -1
      Unfortunately, this happens not only at the highest level.
      since Stalin's times this, try not to shave off and it will not seem a little "Do not be afraid to tell the truth. Stalin" (c) from the movie "Anecdote"
  • GEOID
    GEOID April 1 2021 08: 06
    +4
    Eyes gnawed about the deception of the Supreme.
    But remembering my favorite book, White Clothes,
    when a group of villains monopolized others' access to Stalin and
    pushed Lysenko's ideas. The rest were declared enemies and hands
    The KGB arranged a hunt for real scientists.
    How do you like that opinion?
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 April 1 2021 10: 04
      +7
      when a group of villains monopolized others' access to Stalin and
      pushed Lysenko's ideas.

      in this example, everything is very ambiguous. Lysenko's ideas worked here and now, Vavilov's ideas in the distant future. The management chose the opportunity to feed people here and now.
      Although who wrote the 4 million denunciations, the question is debatable.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 April 1 2021 08: 10
    0
    It's awful, if SSBNs are defenseless, then why bother with the Navy
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko April 1 2021 08: 17
    +3
    The brilliance and poverty of the exercises of the Russian Navy "Umka-2021"
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 April 1 2021 09: 14
    +8
    And sad, and ashamed, and I want to swear obscenities ...
  • New Year day
    New Year day April 1 2021 09: 27
    +5
    Cool! But expected!
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 1 2021 10: 10
    +1
    Why was there one shot? Even the article says that at least two. One training, the second combat for breaking the ice.
    And immediately a question to the author: And earlier, torpedo shots were used to emerge from under the ice or not?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. timokhin-aa
        April 1 2021 17: 59
        +4
        But then another question arises - why do we need an AU and a special boat, if the "Physics" has zero buoyancy even in the prepared state? What did they do, it turns out, did they shoot?
        Wow....

        That's what Max hid when he wrote that there would be no conclusions. This is the bottom.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. timokhin-aa
            April 1 2021 20: 49
            +2
            Yes, I already shook him on this topic, he never said yes or no, but my senses told me that I was right.

            We used USET-80 or its mutation from Gidropribor.
            Then the speaker lifted it.

            This is the only consistent version.
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 1 2021 10: 45
    +4
    Quote: Boris55
    Quote: NDR-791
    There is no real sense from the fact that we find out here there is no one, only nerves and a loss of faith in the state.

    This is the meaning of all anti-Russian articles. When they succeed in defeating the Russian spirit, little remains to be done - "our" elite is ready for betrayal ...

    Your "elite" headed by ... has been ready for this for a long time - already thirty years, or even more .... sad
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 1 2021 10: 55
    +6
    "Torpedo poverty" exercises of the Russian Navy "Umka-2021"

    What is the name of the event, so is the result. I wonder who up there fell into childhood? what The next exercise should be expected with a similar name, something like - "Cheburashka", or "The locomotive from Romashkovo" ...? lol
    1. GEOID
      GEOID April 1 2021 16: 38
      +4
      So someone likes cartoons.
      Umki, Loshariki .... As in the "Snow Queen" - to the boy Kai (Kolya) add from four
      letters П..О..Ж..А the word FLEET.
    2. Earthshaker
      Earthshaker April 3 2021 13: 20
      +1
      "Whoever calls his name is called that."
      "Just because."
      "Scratch-knuckle."
      This is an incomplete list of quotes, I am not hinting at anything.
      1. GEOID
        GEOID April 3 2021 13: 22
        +1
        )) We won't talk about whores for 10 dollars ... It's not him. Berezovsky framed it.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart April 1 2021 11: 19
    +2
    What conclusions ... more and more in our real security is tied to the notorious nuclear deterrence, less and less on everything else. If it is possible to restore the torpedo after lifting, then I see no problems in mass shooting.
    1. timokhin-aa
      April 1 2021 12: 18
      +7
      In the case of Physicists, the problem is the cost of a shot - 8 million. This is not due to objective circumstances, it was just that they decided in the Navy and the industrial department.
      Plus an organizational problem.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 April 1 2021 16: 15
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        In the case of Physicists, the problem is the cost of a shot - 8 million.
        Is this the price of a shot or the price of a torpedo? The training torpedo seems to be being restored ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          April 1 2021 17: 54
          +2
          Shot of course.
  • leks
    leks April 1 2021 11: 33
    +10
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: leks
    Imagine that some head of health in one of the areas,

    This is impossible in principle! If you write the TRUTH in the annual reports, then there will be no one in their places except the minister. He will never tell the truth

    I understand this fact, that's why I wrote "imagine".
    Although from time to time the exclamation of the former
    any official, that everything is a lie.
  • Niko
    Niko April 1 2021 11: 43
    +10
    Unfortunately, one cannot expect much from the Supreme Commander. When asked by a journalist about what he thinks about the strengthening of the Chinese navy in recent years and whether he thinks that this has to do with Russia (of course, the question is partly strange: after all, Russia is directly affected by Chinese tanks), the Supreme Commander condescendingly explained that the military budget of China is several times less the US budget, THIS IS NOT ABOUT US ..... "silent scene .... everyone froze ..." It seems that he is still not a pridedent of the United States, why is it safer for him that China's military budget is smaller than the United States? With Russian, it's quite ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Volga073
    Volga073 April 1 2021 12: 23
    +2
    Good article !
    And the President will be given to read it ??
  • Free wind
    Free wind April 1 2021 12: 29
    +3
    Pay attention to even ice in the ascent area, and then again hummocks. I understand perfectly well that this is a coincidence, and there was a complete calm and thaw when the ocean froze. And the boats there surfaced quite by accident on the instructions of the General Staff.
    1. K298rtm
      K298rtm April 4 2021 19: 38
      0
      1. Regarding the past event "Umka" - better late than never.
      2. Let's hope the ice is broken (in a good way).
      3. When a fish under the ice is looking for a wormwood to ascend, it is not at all necessarily pure water, wormwood in these cases and even ice of the required size and thickness. The ice conditions are difficult at this time of the year.
      4. It is sad that there are no multipurpose planes for going to the AB, without them it is difficult to check the absence of tracking for the rocket launcher.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN April 1 2021 12: 54
    +1
    The unctuous coverage of those teachings for the populace makes sense to arouse pride in our mighty fleet. If only GDP, people in the General Staff of the Navy, people in the military-industrial complex objectively understood the situation and took steps to overcome the failures.
    1. Alexander Lysenko
      Alexander Lysenko April 1 2021 23: 54
      -4
      GDP cannot cover everything. We need a competent administration.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter April 1 2021 23: 59
        +8
        Quote: Alexander Lysenko
        GDP cannot cover everything. We need a competent administration.

        Again childish babble about bad boyars, for more than 20 years I have been hearing this nonsense.
  • leks
    leks April 1 2021 13: 56
    +3
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: leks
    The supreme himself nodded his head, congratulated

    And awarded, it should be laughing

    How can it be without this, otherwise it will not turn out beautifully, praised it, but forgot to award it with another title or order for services to the fatherland. request
  • Garri_
    Garri_ April 1 2021 15: 26
    +4
    Quote: Volga073
    Good article !
    And the President will be given to read it ??

    .. of course they will .. certainly .. especially our comments ..
  • Ayman75
    Ayman75 April 1 2021 18: 33
    +1
    If even half of what is written is true, it is depressing. Next to me lives (a writer) who wrote a book about nature without leaving his office. !! ?? BCh-5 B-557 itself
  • s9883300
    s9883300 April 1 2021 19: 51
    -8
    I'm just wondering where the author got the outgoing one ??? It smacks of disclosing official information, or all the same messy most of the article.
    1. Aag
      Aag April 1 2021 20: 29
      +8
      Quote: s9883300
      I'm just wondering where the author got the outgoing one ??? It smacks of disclosing official information, or all the same messy most of the article.

      Judging by the "chevrons", you have been on the site for a long time ... The surname, publications, position of the author (Maxim Klimov, - if, of course, you are interested in this area of ​​the RF Defense) - have long been known. (Among people interested). The author posted fragments of appeals to relevant departments, answers, links to previous publications are given, - everything is fair! (at least no one has provided reliable refutations yet).
      IMHO: if such a "Klimov" were found in each of the structures of our difficult State, life would become, if not simpler, then, at least, it would be more expedient, more logical, and most importantly, more promising ... hi
  • Charlie
    Charlie April 1 2021 21: 22
    0
    Quote: GEOID
    Quote: Operator
    Hydromayor

    And who is this, if not a secret?
    Logically, a firefighter, or is it correct - "firefighter."?

    Yes, the Russian language, it is, of course, great and powerful. But it seems to me that these two terms mean the same thing.
    1. GEOID
      GEOID April 2 2021 03: 30
      +3
      Nope ... On kebabs, one major PCh explained, the Firefighter is the one who kindles, makes the fire.
      And the Firefighter is the one who extinguishes.
      This is to the question - why does his fire burn badly in the grill?))) I can extinguish, ignite nicht.
  • Compasure
    Compasure April 1 2021 23: 36
    .
    I would like to ask the author: sweet ration in the State Department? wink
    1. Alexander Lysenko
      Alexander Lysenko April 1 2021 23: 44
      +4
      Unknown. How is it?
    2. Alexander Lysenko
      Alexander Lysenko April 1 2021 23: 48
      +3
      People write, raise problems. What did you do, farted? Dill?
    3. Alexander Lysenko
      Alexander Lysenko April 2 2021 00: 01
      +2
      All stones are the same. Let's goodbye.
    4. timokhin-aa
      April 2 2021 02: 05
      +5
      So you have to ask this.
  • ramzay21
    ramzay21 April 2 2021 04: 42
    0
    Well done author!
  • Cergey
    Cergey April 2 2021 06: 00
    0
    Thanks for the interesting article
  • Paphnutius the Unforgettable
    Paphnutius the Unforgettable April 2 2021 09: 53
    -4
    Here's what's interesting to me, but does this author have anything positive about the fleet at all? At least I haven't seen it! The fact that he writes long boring and not very clear verbal constructions, such as "everything is not easy, but very bad !!" It's clear. And the fact that he is well versed in maritime affairs is not at all obvious! For him, the main thing is to convey to the readers: everything is bad with us, but everything is good with the Americans !!!!
  • Barberry25
    Barberry25 April 2 2021 09: 55
    0
    The war between DIMK and Klimov continues. In fact, Klimov is dissatisfied with everything as always
    1. timokhin-aa
      April 2 2021 10: 14
      0
      And right in this case.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 April 2 2021 12: 46
        -2
        laughing Well, so far there are no requirements for the presentation of information from DIMK ... And Klimov needs to get used not to rush to write an article, but to study the information and wait for the details, otherwise it will be like with ships
        1. timokhin-aa
          April 2 2021 12: 53
          +1
          What ships?
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 April 2 2021 16: 11
            -2
            yes, with the tests of anti-aircraft missiles at the corvettes ... when he hurried and thought a little ...
            1. timokhin-aa
              April 2 2021 22: 07
              0
              Yes, he hurried, but in fairness, it was impossible to understand the MO message otherwise. The same thoughts occurred to me then, and not to me alone.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 April 3 2021 09: 29
                -2
                that's why I say that you need to first wait for the details, and then lay out your opinion. and then it turns out already two articles with conjectures instead of facts .. there is no zer gut it
  • Xscorpion
    Xscorpion April 2 2021 11: 03
    -2
    ... Even more surprising are statements that the naval forces are not practicing combat training exercises in the Arctic [with practical torpedo firing - MK]. Probably, Klimov does not bother himself with the usual monitoring of news information on this topic.

    I agree with this laughing Since he does not know elementary information, but tries to get to the bottom of the words. He will pull the words of the commander out of context, then he will get to the extra word in the report. Otherwise, he would have known that such shooting is carried out regularly and no less often than among the Americans, and maybe more often. One of these exercises was in May 2019, 3 nuclear submarines worked out operations in high latitudes, including the use of weapons under the ice. But at that time, no one even bothered to even try to post this news on the website. As this is just a routine study and not to anyone. But the Supreme Commander did not report to Mr. Klimov about this, and there was nothing to get to the bottom of.
    1. timokhin-aa
      April 2 2021 22: 09
      +2
      One such exercise took place in May 2019, with 3 nuclear submarines practicing operations in high latitudes, including the use of weapons under the ice.


      There is no need to tell fairy tales. In 2019, Rear Admiral Dudko said that there had never been such firing, now Evmenov reported to Putin that this was the first time in history, the author himself was an assistant to Admiral Suchkov when he was an adviser to the Minister of Defense and was dealing precisely with issues of torpedo weapons and knows what writes.

      Your statements against this background require some kind of proof.
      1. Xscorpion
        Xscorpion April 6 2021 08: 18
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        One such exercise took place in May 2019, with 3 nuclear submarines practicing operations in high latitudes, including the use of weapons under the ice.


        There is no need to tell fairy tales. In 2019, Rear Admiral Dudko said that there had never been such firing, now Evmenov reported to Putin that this was the first time in history, the author himself was an assistant to Admiral Suchkov when he was an adviser to the Minister of Defense and was dealing precisely with issues of torpedo weapons and knows what writes.

        Your statements against this background require some kind of proof.

        What proof is needed? Official? So they were and were published in the press. I quote again.
        In May 2019, the Russian fleet held another submarine exercise. Three nuclear submarines - the strategic missile carriers K-114 "Tula", K-407 "Novomoskovsk" and the multipurpose K-560 "Severodvinsk" have worked out operations in high latitudes, including navigation and the use of weapons under the ice.

        As far as I remember then the figure was announced on 2 torpedoes each boat fired. And as for the statement of Evmenov, then they simply pulled out of the content. He meant the first time shooting FROM THE ICE WITH a practical torpedo to equip the ice hole. I mean, the first torpedo firing UNDER THE ICE. You invented it yourself.
        1. timokhin-aa
          April 6 2021 10: 48
          0
          Give a link to your quote.
  • DominickS
    DominickS April 2 2021 13: 01
    +3
    The fact that he writes long boring and not very clear verbal constructions, such as "everything is not easy, but very bad !!" It's clear. And the fact that he is well versed in maritime affairs is not at all obvious!

    But it is obvious that you, apparently, are hardly able to master reading anything, in addition to the price tag in the store, since you see "verbal constructions" everywhere. And the author very well described the very real critical problems of the Russian Navy, which were always obvious to everyone who studies any third-party sources on the topic, except for pocket portals and the Russian Ministry of Defense media.
  • Vladimir Muster
    Vladimir Muster April 2 2021 15: 28
    0
    I do not presume to judge the entire article, but in one question the author definitely showed incompetence. I served as a cameraman on B85, 19 of the submarine brigade KTOF. In 1974 we already had remote-controlled torpedoes. The combat post was located in the 2nd compartment. The maximum firing range of remote-controlled torpedoes reached 24 km (not nautical miles, as in the Leningrad PTS, namely km), which was provided by two cable coils. The first to unwind was the coil pushed out of the TA, when the torpedo was launched, hanging outside. If necessary, the cable was unwound from the second reel mounted on the torpedo.
    By the way, a few years ago, "high-tech" Germany announced that they had remote-controlled torpedoes with a firing range of 20 !!! km.
    1. timokhin-aa
      April 2 2021 22: 13
      +3
      I served as a cameraman on B85, 19 of the submarine brigade KTOF. In 1974 we already had remote-controlled torpedoes


      These were systems with a towed reel, and they are still there. But these are "reins", not TU, they do not provide a multi-torpedo salvo, a lot of restrictions are imposed on the submarine's course and torpedo speed, it is impossible to actively maneuver while the torpedo is moving towards the TU.
      The author, KBCH-3 from the submarine of the 10th division of the Pacific Fleet, do not think that he is not aware of this antiques.
      1. Vladimir Muster
        Vladimir Muster April 20 2021 15: 42
        0
        Your remark about "antiques" is inappropriate.
        50 years ago no one else had such an opportunity and we were the first and only.
        By the way, the modest "Bug" 641 project took on combat service (campaign, autonomous), among other weapons, 4 torpedoes with nuclear warheads! In the 70s, it was not "antiques"!
        1. timokhin-aa
          April 20 2021 19: 50
          0
          In the 70s, all this was not antiques, but today, in 2021, it is quite an antiques, and our submarines are still armed with such antiques.
          Unlike the enemy.
    2. GEOID
      GEOID April 3 2021 17: 22
      +1
      They did not shoot at FULL range.
      Even at the KVF, they did not shoot at full capacity.
      Technical subtleties and the difficulty of finding the raising of products.
      Lost and unclear drowned or stolen.
  • Moskal 55
    Moskal 55 April 2 2021 16: 53
    +1
    And really, let's just tell the truth! As the USSR destroyed its, and before that, the entire social. the camp was surrendered ... And the army was then in relation to the American much stronger than it is now. And where were our valiant military men then? Yeltsin was ... licked! And now, through the stump-deck, we begin to restore and arm the army. And the media and generals lie in interviews. The media is the second oldest, everything is clear here, but the generals ... but where to go. And the authors and commentators are just all pristine! Aki babies! Well, there was none of them in the 90s in the Russian Federation, they were on the moon! They cannot understand that we are crawling out of the city with our inheritance in the form of an economy and society, i.e. all of us. They do not understand that, with rare exceptions, everything is quite inertial and, to be honest, corrupt. And this is not them, this is us. And from this city ..., by the way, we may not get out. We can fall into the second restructuring! Everyone is so honest and correct!
    1. timokhin-aa
      April 2 2021 22: 14
      +2
      Strange hysteria.
      Somewhere in 2028-2030, the Americans will come to kill us.
      Do you want us to be unprepared?
      1. GEOID
        GEOID April 3 2021 17: 24
        +1
        Alexander, I think they won't have to do anything.
        The worst thing they can do is leave the RF alone. Just don't notice. )))
        1. timokhin-aa
          April 3 2021 22: 14
          0
          It seems to you.
      2. reader65
        reader65 April 5 2021 18: 43
        0
        That’s the same. I may be 2030 years old in 65. Is it possible to postpone the apocalypse later. I really want to get a pension of $ 200 at least a couple of years to spite Putin Kabaeva.
  • Protos
    Protos April 3 2021 22: 04
    0
    EVERYTHING IS LOST laughing
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I April 5 2021 01: 18
    0
    There is a saying that the first time an event happens like a tragedy ... the second time, like a farce ... but the third time? What awaits us, tragedy or farce? Much depends on the country's leadership! And Putin tops the list of those who should be asked! Is Putin being deceived? Putin is not in "courses"? Come on! How long to!? 1.Russian Empire: The tsar did not know ... the tsar is being deceived ... anyone is to blame, but not the tsar! ; 2. Soviet Union: Stalin did not know ... Stalin was deceived ... anyone is to blame, but not Stalin! ; 3.RF: Putin doesn't know? Is Putin being deceived? Anyone to blame, but not Putin? ...
  • nikant
    nikant April 6 2021 21: 36
    0
    the salt is not in whether SSBNs will be able to snarl with torpedoes: this will already be the end for them ... the salt is in how, with what - what torpedoes they and their guard will be protected with ... someone (not believing) actively orgasms on the subject the fact that the entire SSBN cruise is actively grazing by American nuclear submarines ... situationally, missile carriers and guards will begin to be destroyed before their volleys ... but here they dreamed of shooting under the ice ...