Military Review

In India: If the WS-10 engines are so good, why does China want to order a batch of Russian AL-31Fs for its fighters again?

31

A notable controversy arose between Chinese and Indian military experts. It is dedicated to the fighters that are in service, as well as aviation engines. It all started with an interview with a Chinese pilot who flew both the Su-30 and the J-16 on the CCTV channel. According to the Chinese pilot, the Chinese J-16 is "seriously superior" to the Su-30. From the interview:


I can say with confidence that, by and large, these are aircraft from different eras. Compared to the Su-30, the J-16 has many more modern components and a better view of the cockpit.

The Chinese pilot said that the Chinese WS-10 engines, which are used in the J-16 fighters, are "superior" to the Russian-made AL-31F engines.

It should be recalled that last year in China they said that the special technologies implemented on the WS-10 make the aircraft less noticeable compared to those equipped with Russian-made aircraft engines.

Such statements by the Chinese pilot and military experts of the PRC caused a wave of criticism from the Indian representatives of the expert community. In India, whose Air Force is armed with Russian Su-30MKI fighters, are skeptical about the J-16's superiority over the Su-30MKI. In particular, it is noted that if we compare the J-16 with the initial versions of this fighter, then, probably, "some advantages of the Chinese combat vehicle can be found, including the use of composites."

In the Indian press:

But if we compare it with the Su-30MKI, which are equipped with modern avionics (airborne electronic equipment), the latest missiles, including cruise missiles, then this comparison will definitely not be in favor of Chinese aircraft.

Even more criticism has been made against the WS-10 aircraft engines:

If the Chinese engines are so good, why is China again going to order a batch of AL-31Fs from Russia for its fighters?

In China, such statements were countered by pointing out the "ignorance of Indian experts with the real characteristics of the J-16 fighters and WS-10 engines." Interesting logic of the correspondence dispute ...
31 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. rocket757
    rocket757 30 March 2021 12: 42
    -1
    In India: If the WS-10 engines are so good, why does China want to order a batch of Russian AL-31Fs for its fighters again?
    The question is ... the answer is unlikely, someone will give! And we can guess, guess ...
    1. SAG
      SAG 30 March 2021 12: 58
      +6
      in China said that the special technologies implemented on the WS-10 make the aircraft less visible in comparison with those equipped with Russian-made aircraft engines.

      And here everything is correct, the turbine blades are less refractory -> the temperature in the combustion chamber is lower -> the radiation is less -> the aircraft is less noticeable in the IR range ... True, the resource + thrust is more noticeable lower ... after all, "special technologies"laughing good wassat
      1. mvg
        mvg 30 March 2021 18: 48
        +1
        the temperature in the combustion chamber is lower -> the radiation is lower -> the aircraft is less visible in the infrared range.

        Or maybe it's easier to get online, read something about the WS-10 options. There is also a decent resource, and gas temperatures in front of the turbine ..., and afterburner thrust and specific consumption ..
        PS: And don't write such garbage anymore ..


        data from TRDDF WS-10A and AL-31F. In particular, the thrust on the afterburner is 12600 kg (12258 kg - the AL-31F data in brackets - approx. "VP"), the thrust without afterburner is 7350 kg (7620 kg), the specific fuel consumption on the afterburner is 2,02-2,08 kg / kgf-h (2,0), without afterburner / cruising 0,78-0,80 (0,795), air consumption 119 kg / s (112), gas temperature in front of the turbine 1527 degrees Celsius (1392), engine weight 1997 kg (1750 kg), specific thrust 8 (7,14). You can also compare the performance of these engines with the F119 and WS-15A (in development). One panellist asks where the data on the mass of the F119 is 1360 kg (?), While Wikipedia calls 1770 kg. Also unclear is the specific thrust of the WS-10A, equal to 8 (with a mass of 1997 kg and a thrust of 12600 kg), which strangely exceeds the characteristics of the AL-31F (7,14 with a mass of 1750 kg (according to other sources, 1530 kg) and a thrust of 12250 kg (12500 It is possible that a typo is also present on the weight of the WS-10A - there are data about 1575 kg (hence the specific thrust of 8,0), which looks more plausible, especially considering that the mass of the WS-15A can really be equal to 1862 kg.
        1. nikodeus
          nikodeus 31 March 2021 17: 14
          +2
          But yesterday I read on the Internet that aliens are on the side of the Kremlin and are supplying the Russians with advanced technologies. Do you think this is as true as what you wrote? )))
          1. mvg
            mvg April 2 2021 23: 33
            -2
            yesterday I read on the Internet that aliens are on the side of the Kremlin

            I don’t drink much, I don’t shmog to get drunk before the aliens .. Devils there, all kinds of chipmunks .. I have not seen green men.
            PS: Don't fucking write about T in engines, about technologies, about resources, etc., if not in courses, but only use proofs from TV Star and comments from VO
            1. nikodeus
              nikodeus April 4 2021 23: 13
              +1
              Did I write something about resources and technologies? Are you confusing anything? I just do not believe in some left pictures on the Internet. Especially if they have hieroglyphs instead of letters.
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ 30 March 2021 13: 11
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      And we can guess, guess ...

      why guess! there is an answer ... VS-10 is AL31f for Zh10 ..... VS10 is AL31f with some Chinese-made units.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 March 2021 13: 53
        -1
        The question was WHY ?, and what is so and how ...
        the Chinese praise theirs, so why do they need ours? Just do not have enough of our own or for other reasons ... here,
        divination.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 30 March 2021 13: 59
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Chinese praise their

          propaganda (like ours, which has no analogues in the world)
          Quote: rocket757
          so why do they need ours?

          pass ours as theirs! because ours is good and for the point sounded above.
    3. RealPilot
      RealPilot 30 March 2021 13: 38
      +3
      Indians and Chinese argue.

      And best of all in this case is Russia: after all, we sell engines, and often together with planes, to all parties to this dispute!
      Moreover, the jealousy of the Indians to the new Chinese engines, as it were, hints at a speedy remotorization of their entire fleet with new Russian engines. Excellent wink
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 30 March 2021 13: 44
        +3
        Quote: RealPilot
        And best of all in this case is Russia: after all, we sell engines, and often together with planes, to all parties to this dispute!

        And this is the right approach.
        The Chinese pilot said that the Chinese WS-10 engines, which are used in the J-16 fighters, are "superior" to the Russian-made AL-31F engines.
        And I also wonder how long would that pilot have served if he said the opposite?
  2. lucul
    lucul 30 March 2021 12: 43
    -2
    In India: If the WS-10 engines are so good, why does China want to order a batch of Russian AL-31Fs for its fighters again?

    "Patamushta" Gladiolus)))
  3. Ka-52
    Ka-52 30 March 2021 12: 43
    +4
    The Chinese pilot said that the Chinese WS-10 engines, which are used in the J-16 fighters, are "superior" to the Russian-made AL-31F engines.

    Chinese bullshit. M30 is installed on the Su-2. In terms of thrust with WS-10 they are equal, in terms of resource M2 they are better, specific consumption is lower. Plus, the service is more convenient.
    According to the Chinese pilot, the Chinese J-16 is "seriously superior" to the Su-30.

    wow - essentially surpasses the twin Su-27, shaggy years of development. Compare at least with the Su-34
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. Ru_Na
      Ru_Na 30 March 2021 12: 47
      +1
      Why they can, only their quality is lame in comparison with our engines!
  5. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 30 March 2021 12: 45
    +1
    Very interesting. Just wrote that our AL-31 engines are better than the Chinese ones and they will order more, and immediately write the opposite.
    1. Alien From
      Alien From 30 March 2021 12: 59
      +2
      Information war......
    2. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 30 March 2021 13: 12
      +2
      Quote: Alexander 3
      and immediately write the opposite.

      Duc, there is one Chinese pilot said. fellow A new meme is coming soon. yes
  6. DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 30 March 2021 13: 25
    +3
    Engines are a real whale problem.
    They rip off designs by specialists, but technologies, materials science, the general concept - "engine" for them, that ...
    Only a few can afford to manufacture their own turbojet engines. China is not on this list.
    The main problem of whales is their psychology and the foundations of their faith.
    Whales will never have a normal and modern turbojet engine. And I don’t need to sing about what they’ll learn. The psychology is not the same.
    Not creators.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 30 March 2021 13: 54
      0
      Quote: DED_peer_DED
      Whales will never have a normal and modern turbojet engine.

      You will never make your engine, never !!! wassat
      1. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 30 March 2021 14: 09
        +1
        They will have nothing breakthrough. Copies, yes - there will be. But at the same time, they will always follow on the heels, and not in front.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 30 March 2021 15: 53
      +1
      Americans and all Europeans say almost the same thing about us. laughing
      What you have listed is a set of typical popularized stereotypes and rather "dense" ones.
      There is no need to treat other races and nationalities on the basis of imposed stereotypes, with such an attitude you look at least stupid.
      1. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 30 March 2021 16: 34
        +2
        There is no need to treat other races and nationalities on the basis of imposed stereotypes, with such an attitude you look at least stupid.

        It's not about race. It's about Faith and psychology.
        Tell me more about how billions of Chinese have scattered and settled around the planet for thousands of years ... Was this for thousands of years? No.
        We sat and didn’t rock the boat in our coterie. You probably think the 20th and 21st centuries are indicative and have been corrected over the previous thousand years.
        Nea ...
        About the ancient race of "Americans", generally better not say anything.
  8. CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 30 March 2021 14: 17
    +1
    CN rvut v svoyom stile.
    Ikh WS-10 khlam.
    Plokhaya kopia AL-31F.
    Motor / dvizhok eto alfa omega samoleta.
    Mozhet CN napichkat samolet sovremennoy elektronikou i kompozitami no bez khoroshogo motora eto budet vsegda khlam.
    I J-10, 20, 31 s ikh dviglom WS-10 khklam.
    1. DED_peer_DED
      DED_peer_DED 30 March 2021 14: 26
      +1
      Therefore, they even copy airplane gliders and combine them. All their "devices" are similar to someone and are torn from someone else.
  9. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 30 March 2021 17: 00
    0
    If the Chinese engines are so good, why is China again going to order a batch of AL-31Fs from Russia for its fighters?

    To produce more aircraft beyond the capacity of their manufacturers. Very elementary.
  10. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 30 March 2021 18: 24
    -3
    Why not tell the Indians about their engines, which are better than the Chinese ones and are not inferior in their performance characteristics to the Russian ones)))
    1. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 30 March 2021 20: 36
      +2
      Quote: TermNachTER
      Why not to the Indians do not tell about your engines, which are better than Chinese ones and are not inferior in their performance characteristics to Russian ones)))
      Maybe all the same INDIANS - from the word India.
      I think apaches and comanches can use engines made in the USA ...
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 30 March 2021 21: 01
        0
        For me, that Indians, that Indians - one hell))))
  11. Prisoner
    Prisoner 30 March 2021 22: 46
    0
    They can be really good. But ours are probably better. And a lot.
  12. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 31 March 2021 12: 36
    0
    According to the Chinese pilot, the Chinese J-16 is "seriously superior" to the Su-30.
    which is logical, they position the J-16 as an analogue of the Su-35
  13. Tezcatlipoca
    Tezcatlipoca April 4 2021 08: 08
    0
    Hello. In China, the CCP is in power, which means that the law of the transition from quantity to quality is well known to them :) Dialectics.