Military Review

Mysterious Secretary General of the USSR

154

Did the "Andropov project" really exist?



Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov served as head of the CPSU and head of the Soviet state for quite a bit, only 15 months. But, unlike all other Soviet leaders, he came there after many years of work in the responsible post of the chairman of the all-powerful KGB, which he headed for 15 long years. Perhaps that is why we see a huge jumble of myths and legends in modern historical literature on Andropov. Conspiracy theories about Andropov's alleged plans to carry out significant political and socio-economic reforms in the USSR, including the restoration of capitalism and even the dissolution of the USSR itself, are expressed by a number of historical publicists.

It can be argued that the demonization of the personality of Yuri Andropov is somewhat reminiscent of a similar demonization of another prominent leader of the domestic special services - Lavrenty Beria, who was also credited with similar destructive plans, in order to justify his arrest and subsequent liquidation at the direction of Nikita Khrushchev and his associates.

At the same time, two mutually exclusive myths about Yuri Andropov compete in the information space, but in both cases we are dealing with a desire to present his role in a negative light.

In one case, Andropov appears as a mysterious organizer of a conspiracy of some pro-Western forces in the ruling Soviet nomenclature, which was implemented during the years of perestroika, and the reforms of Gaidar and Chubais were prepared by a well-known team of economic experts since the time of Andropov and under his direct supervision.

In another case, Andropov is portrayed as an insidious leader (limited by Nikita Khrushchev) of the powerful Soviet secret police, who wanted to establish KGB control over the party and the country, revise the decisions of the XNUMXth Congress of the CPSU on criticizing the Stalin personality cult, and return the country to a time of mass repression.

It is curious that the original version of the existence of the "Andropov project", allegedly implemented during the years of perestroika, belongs to the writer and former Soviet intelligence officer Mikhail Lyubimov, who published in the newspaper "Top Secret" in 1995 a conspiracy hoax novel "Operation Calvary" a secret plan of perestroika ", which was an artistic fiction and did not at all pretend to be completely historical.

There is also a clear dislike for Andropov on the part of some representatives of the conservative soil camp, who asserted that it was he who, being at the head of the KGB, opposed a certain “Russian party” and supporters of the revival of Russian national traditions, persecuted Russian nationalists, the so-called “Russianists”. Particularly distinguished was the publicist and writer Sergei Semanov, whose career in the Brezhnev era suffered from the persecution of the KGB due to accusations of nationalism.

According to another version, while serving as editor-in-chief of the magazine "Man and Law", he took part in the Kremlin intrigues, publishing incriminating materials on influential persons close to Leonid Brezhnev at the suggestion of the same KGB, for which he was removed from office. In a number of conspiracy books, characterized by outright hostility to Yuri Andropov, more like settling personal scores, the author portrays him as a dangerous careerist, hostile to the interests of the country, the Soviet state and the Russian people. He devotes a significant part of these texts to a dubious study of Andropov's ethnic origin and the search for hidden liberals and foreigners in his entourage, and the Soviet party and statesman Otto Kuusinen, who promoted Yuri Andropov at the initial stage of his party career, is even suspected of secret belonging to the Freemasons!

On the other hand, in the anti-Soviet literature of the third wave of emigration, the figure of Andropov was also demonized. The most striking example of such a tendentious interpretation of Andropov's role as a failed new "tyrant-Stalinist" is the book "Conspirators in the Kremlin", acting as American Sovietologists for a married couple of emigrants from the USSR, Vladimir Solovyov and Elena Klepikova. Under the pen of these authors, Andropov appears in the role of an insidious intriguer, an "inspired imperial" striving for a one-man dictatorship, inciting chauvinistic sentiments and planning to "tighten the screws" in the country as much as possible. They argued that

“Andropov's coup exposed the police essence of the Soviet state, when the party itself became a formal appendage of the KGB. The entire course of Russian history has led to the fact that the secret police is the highest product of the country's political development. "

Yes, of course, with the arrival of Yuri Andropov to the leadership of the KGB, the role of this organization has increased, and its status has changed even formally.

Andropov headed the department in 1967, when it was called the State Security Committee under the USSR Council of Ministers. Under Andropov's leadership in 1978, the status of the KGB increased, it became an independent state committee called the State Security Committee, expanded its zones of activity, including the creation of district offices of the KGB. At the end of the 60s, the department of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the fight against so-called ideological sabotage was disbanded, and its functions were transferred to one of the KGB departments.

However, there are no sufficient grounds to assert that the KGB, with the coming to power in the party and country of Andropov, suppressed the party and the Politburo. We must not forget that during the reign of first Nikita Khrushchev and then Leonid Brezhnev, a peculiar system of collective leadership developed, and the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee was not able to make fundamental decisions without the consent of other members of the Politburo. This system, under which all the main decisions, including those concerning the activities of the State Security Committee, were made at the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee, was preserved under Andropov, and under Chernenko, and under Gorbachev.

The KGB continued to be one of the most important instruments of power at the top of the CPSU. The KGB, like the Prosecutor's Office of the USSR and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, was subordinate to one of the departments of the Central Committee of the CPSU and acted in accordance with party directives. Moreover, shortly before the death of the then already ill Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov left the post of head of the KGB and became secretary of the Central Committee for ideological issues.

Paradoxically, political scientist Sergei Kurginyan shares this view of Andropov's plans to establish the dominance of the KGB over the party and ideological structures of the CPSU. However, in his interpretation, this plan provided not only the rejection of the communist ideology, but also the implementation of reforms in order to include the USSR in the orbit of influence of the collective West. Whereas historian Roy Medvedev, on the contrary, believes that

"Andropov, as a politician, did not at all intend to take the KGB organs out of the control and leadership of the Politburo and the Secretariat of the Central Committee."

Reform plans


At the same time, there is no doubt about Yuri Andropov's intention to start modernization reforms in the country. But researchers did not agree on the nature of these reform plans.

One position proceeds from the fact that Andropov's policy was reduced to a number of measures to establish elementary order and changes in the management of the national economy, which did not go beyond the framework of the existing socio-economic system. This point of view is generally held by the historian Roy Medvedev in the biography of Andropov "General Secretary from the Lubyanka." But he does not deny the intention of Andropov and his entourage to search for new ways of reforming the Soviet economy, albeit within a certain established ideological framework of the Marxist-Leninist doctrine.

“A kind of headquarters for working out ways of economic development began to form around Andropov. This caused a general revival of economic thought in the country, the discussion was held on a variety of issues, and many articles appeared in the press that could not have seen the light of day even a year or two ago,

- Roy Medvedev writes. At the same time, Medvedev believes that Yuri Andropov himself

"Demanded to restore order, but was not capable of major reforms within the party and Soviet society."

Another point of view is that Andropov and his team of political and economic advisers and referents were ready to make significant changes, at least in the economy. In fact, we are talking about the Chinese version of the reforms, which was carried out by Deng Xiaoping, but with domestic specifics, since the USSR was, in contrast to Maoist China, a much more developed industrial power.

According to the historian Yevgeny Spitsyn, Andropov planned to carry out economic reforms in the spirit of NEP with the introduction of a market economy, including the idea of ​​convergence of socialist and capitalist methods of management. However, one should not forget that the ideas of such a convergence, although clearly in a form unacceptable for the ruling regime, were proposed in his articles by Academician Andrei Sakharov, and Andropov considered it correct and necessary to exile and isolate him in the city of Gorky (now Nizhny Novgorod).

E. Spitsyn, in an interview with the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper on February 27, 2018, also believes that Andropov sought to abandon the tough ideological confrontation with the West and agree on the division of spheres of influence on the principle of a new Yalta, but at the same time pursue a course towards integrating the USSR national economy into the world economy. However, after President Ronald Reagan came to power in the United States, who declared the fight against the USSR as an "evil empire" as the goal of his foreign policy, and the South Korean civilian Boeing shot down over Soviet territory, the opportunities for a "new detente" policy were minimal.

In practice, the short period of Yuri Andropov's tenure at the head of the country was accompanied by a sharp exacerbation of Soviet-American relations, unseen since the Caribbean crisis, and the policy of detente, which began during the reign of Leonid Brezhnev in the first half of the 70s, has become a thing of the past.

Since the Soviet Union was a country with a dominant official ideology called Marxism-Leninism, Yuri Andropov understood perfectly well that any practical reforms and transformations are impossible without an appropriate ideological justification. That is why he began with theory, appearing in the magazine "Communist" (the theoretical organ of the Central Committee of the CPSU) with the program article "The Teachings of Karl Marx and Some Questions of Socialist Construction in the USSR", which immediately became mandatory for study in party organizations, in universities and in production ...

The true author of the text was the collective of the magazine, headed by its editor-in-chief Richard Kosolapov, a man of orthodox communist and neo-Stalinist views, dismissed from this post by Mikhail Gorbachev in 1986 at the dawn of perestroika. In this rather traditional text, the existence of a number of difficulties in the development of the country was recognized and the important task of accelerated mechanization and automation of production was posed. The article emphasized that the share of manual and non-mechanized labor in industry alone reaches 40%. The fact that the preparation of such an important text was entrusted to an explicit conservative testifies to Andropov's adherence to the official ideological doctrine of Marxism-Leninism, which he did not intend to abandon at all. Another thing is that the ideology in the late USSR was largely formal and ritual in nature and, in the opinion of a number of its critics, only camouflaged the imperial and bureaucratic-police character of the regime.

The version, popular among liberal anti-communist authors, about Andropov's desire, under the slogan of restoring order, to turn to repressive methods of government and the intention to return the country to the “dark days of Stalinism,” and supposedly only his death stopped this process, seems quite controversial. Roy Medvedev categorically disagrees with this in his book. Noting that Andropov was not a Stalinist, he quotes his words from a conversation with the arrested dissident V. Krasin:

“Nobody will allow the revival of Stalinism. You remember well what happened under Stalin. By the way, I was also expecting an arrest after the war from day to day. I was then the second secretary of the Karelo-Finnish republic. The first secretary was arrested. I was expecting to be arrested, too, but it got carried away. "

It is also known that Andropov, heading the KGB, did not agree with the proposal to begin the persecution of the poet and singer Vladimir Vysotsky, on which the then chief ideologist Mikhail Suslov insisted. He maintained personal contacts with the poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko, known for his anti-Stalinist views, and the Taganka Theater, popular among the intelligentsia. With the assistance of Andropov's daughter Irina, the well-known disgraced literary critic Mikhail Bakhtin was returned from exile.

Before being appointed head of the KGB, as is known, Andropov was ambassador to Hungary during the suppression of the 1956 uprising, and then headed the department of the Central Committee of the CPSU for relations with the communist and workers' parties of socialist countries. As Roy Medvedev emphasizes, it was in Andropov's department that such scientists, politicians, journalists and diplomats as F. Burlatsky, G. Arbatov, A. Bovin, G. Shakhnazarov, O. Bogomolov began their party-political careers. According to Medvedev, “he and the staff of his department in 1965-1966. to a greater extent they sympathized with the opponents of Stalinism. "

It should be clarified here that, according to the unofficial terminology of those years, “Stalinists” meant supporters of tightening the political regime and ideological control over the population, while adherents of liberalization and reforming the existing system called themselves “anti-Stalinists”. In many ways, the origins of the legend or version of Andropov's far-reaching reform projects are associated with the activities of this consultative group, which was created and supported by him for a long time. According to the testimony of Fyodor Burlatsky himself, almost all of its members "were distinguished by free-thinking and a thirst for change," and "Andropov liked this intellectual freeman." (F. Burlatsky "Leaders and Advisers", 1990).

Roy Medvedev also reports that Andropov received from his advisers Georgy Shakhnazarov and Georgy Arbatov proposals for democratization and liberalization of political and cultural life in the country, but he assessed them as premature. While promoting Mikhail Gorbachev up the career ladder, he nevertheless noted his haste in making political decisions, and about Alexander Yakovlev, who was appointed director of IMEMO, he said that he had lived for a long time in a capitalist country and was "reborn" there.

Despite harsh criticism of Andropov's actions, both as head of the KGB and as head of the party and state, dissident historian Roy Medvedev, expelled from the party in 1969 for his book "To the Court of History" about the repressions of Stalinist times, admits that the reign of Yuri Andropov was a step forward compared to the Brezhnev era. His new course opened up certain prospects for Soviet society as a whole and for overcoming the large-scale corruption that had developed at that time. In the fight against this phenomenon and the so-called "Dnipropetrovsk mafia", he sees, of course, a positive role for Yuri Andropov. The arrest of Tregubov, the head of the Glavtorg of the Moscow City Executive Committee, followed by another 25 senior officials of the Glavtorg and directors of the largest department stores and grocery stores, caught up with a considerable horror on the mafia clans. The case of the director of the Eliseevsky grocery store, Sokolov, also received a great public response.

In general, the active steps taken by the new leader of the Soviet state during the short period of his stay in power allow us to conclude that it was about reforms that provide for the search for new ways of economic development, including the fight against "shadow economists", and at the same time expanding the use of market mechanisms ... In early 1983, a special Economic Department was created in the Central Committee of the CPSU to develop a full-scale economic reform. Scientists A. Aganbegyan, O. Bogomolov, T. Zaslavskaya, L. Abalkin, N. Petrakov were involved in the work, who subsequently took an active part in reforming the economy during the perestroika period initiated by Mikhail Gorbachev.

In 1984, an experiment began to restructure the management of industry, enterprises and associations. Its main goal was to increase the responsibility and rights and independence of enterprises. This should have led to the establishment of a closer relationship between the final results of labor and the size of the wage fund.

However, Roy Medvedev believes that Andropov

"He intended to establish a tough order in the country, based more on harsh discipline, and not at all on democracy, glasnost and a multi-party system." But "he intended to carry out broad, but cautious economic reforms, undoubtedly, hoped to completely remove the" Dnipropetrovsk mafia "from power and create a new leadership group in the party",

- the historian thinks.

And the well-known anti-Soviet emigrant and historical publicist A. Avtorkhanov in his tendentious book "From Andropov to Gorbachev" characterized Andropov as "a full-blooded, strong-willed, inventive and cold politician, a crystal purely Stalinist leaven, that is why he sought to establish police order within the country, and the collective gradually remove the leadership. "

Therefore, it should be assumed with a reasonable degree of probability that the myth of the Andropov project as some kind of anti-patriotic conspiracy to liquidate the USSR will go down in history along with other such historical fakes as the Testament of Peter the Great, the Letter of Grigory Zinoviev, the Allen Dulles Plan, etc.

The Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci wrote:

“The old order is dying, but the new one still cannot replace it. Many malignant symptoms occur during this period. ”

Two prominent Russian statesmen Pyotr Stolypin and Yuri Andropov, the first at the beginning and the second at the end of the XNUMXth century, unsuccessfully tried to rid the state and society of these malignant symptoms and at the same time preserve the old order. Both the one and the other did not succeed for various reasons.

In honor of the holiday of the Day of State Security Workers on December 20, 1999, a bas-relief of the KGB chairman Yuri Andropov was again installed over entrance No. 1-A of the building of the Federal Security Service of Russia on Lubyanka in Moscow. In this entrance, on the third floor, there was the office of Andropov, who headed the KGB from 1967 to 1982. Now it houses a museum. The memorial plaque was smashed during the events of August 1991 by the rally participants, when, as is known, the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky was demolished, and then dismantled.

This act of restoration of the memorial plaque by Yu.V. Andropov had a certain symbolic meaning. This was the period when the Russian government was headed by Vladimir Putin, who previously held the post of head of the FSB (successor to the KGB), who soon succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president of Russia.
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  1. apro
    apro 30 March 2021 04: 57
    .
    Talking about the reforms of Andropov is as stupid as the reforms of the humpbacked. The party and state bureaucracy was only looking for an excuse to monetize their powers. Something to reform in the USSR in order to bring Soviet ideology to the realities of the present time. Was not set to further improve the economic indicators of the USSR. it was considered too risky to return to Stalin's IVS methods in the Soviet economy. The power of the bureaucratic apparatus was threatened with physical survival.
  2. Far B
    Far B 30 March 2021 05: 04
    +13
    Andropov was too little at the head of the country to be able to say anything concrete about him. But the fact that they began to tighten discipline under him, in general, speaks in his favor. As for his activities as head of the KGB, my dad, a participant in the events at Damanskoye, always spoke with respect about Andropov. And for some reason I believe in bate.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 30 March 2021 05: 35
      +3
      And I have other information. Under him, the KGB began, under any pretext, to remove the pros and put people from the Komsomol there. Ideologically correct and zealous. Infa just from a man from the KGB of those times. Even under Soviet power, he said: what is he doing ?!
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 30 March 2021 11: 51
        +5
        The so-called Komsomol leaders were recruited mainly in ideological departments, even a complete layman understands that an unprepared Komsomol member is zero in professional intelligence
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 30 March 2021 15: 35
          +4
          For the sake of truth, they began to "strengthen" the state security bodies with party and Komsomol cadres even under Stalin.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 March 2021 20: 34
            +4
            And he loved Misha Gorbachev very much for the wonderful receptions at a party in the bear's estate.

            The joke was in my time:

            "In Andropov's office, instead of the faces of the founders, there is a portrait of AS Pushkin.

            - Yuri Vladimirovich, do you like Pushkin's poetry?

            - But of course! After all, he had such beautiful lines: SOULS beautiful impulses! " hi

            Those who did not smell the offices of that time cannot understand, and the FSB is no longer the Office of Deep Drilling, although these clerks have completely discussed the Soviet Union, and even now everything about the office is "bull's-eye from the apple tree."
        3. your1970
          your1970 31 March 2021 11: 25
          +1
          Quote: Andrey VOV
          unprepared Komsomol member zero in professional intelligence

          Unwind to the pre-war period and you will be surprised to see Rychagov - with a maximum level of training for a regiment ... And this is not intelligence, this is aviation ...
      2. dzvero
        dzvero 30 March 2021 12: 59
        -3
        I'm afraid to ask - did the same pros recruited from the ROA with the obligatory experience of a volunteer assistant to the Germans?
      3. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 30 March 2021 13: 07
        +6
        .with him from the KGB .....
        And this is a very interesting topic.
        Yulian Semyonov, a series about Stirlitz, other series, where the heroes were employees who worked in difficult conditions. These films have greatly influenced. And what really happened at that time?
        We need to think it over, but it seems that the USSR did not carry out any significant actions for socialism in the world under Andropov.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 30 March 2021 16: 00
          +10
          "it is necessary to think it over" here I agree: it is necessary to calmly think over everything.
          1) strengthening labor discipline and combating speculators - good or bad? For some reason, I think that this is positive.
          "Significant actions for socialism in the world, the USSR did not carry out under Andropov," there are two options: a) he did not have time, because, out of 1,5 liters that he ran the state, he had enough health for 6-7 months, and then the hospital.
          b) perhaps Yu. V. Andropov decided: it is necessary to improve the situation in the country, and then think about world socialism?
          Who among us can guarantee that he knows Y. V.'s plans, or at least the plans of his boss?
        2. depressant
          depressant 31 March 2021 08: 56
          +5
          Reptiloid (Dmitry):
          We need to think it over, but it seems that the USSR did not carry out any significant actions for socialism in the world under Andropov.


          A quote from Blok, the poem "The Twelve" is appropriate here:
          We are on the mountain to all bourgeois
          World fire
          Let's inflate -
          God bless!


          Yes exactly! Speaking about Andropov, you need to start with Trotskyism - this is to dot the "Y", because, understanding the source, we will understand the exhaust.
          The Trotskyists wanted to fan the world fire of socialist revolutions. But no revolution is done for free; it needs funds. And the funds were supposed to be drawn from the USSR budget like a vacuum cleaner, turning their own population into beggars priblud. Stalin, as a zealous owner, was categorically against, building socialism with the prospect of entering communism in a single country - they say, we will be successful, others will reach out on their own, organizing revolutions at their own expense. The struggle against Trotskyism went on until Stalin's last breath, and after his death it turned out that most of the country's leadership was not disinterestedly infected with Trotskyism.
          But it turned out to be something else! Trotskyism, fighting for survival under Stalin, split into two complementary types.

          1. Conditional "firemen".
          Left without Stalin's supervision, "firefighters" began fanning the fire of the revolution around the world by issuing loans to the leaders of the Mumbu-Yumbu tribes, it is clear that irrecoverable ones, the construction of giant dams and buildings, the donation of wheeled and agricultural machinery, weapons, etc. At the same time, bringing the USSR to a shortage of food products and thus depriving the country of the attractiveness of a rich showcase.
          Outstanding representatives - inept Khrushchev and more "skillful" due to rampant corruption and clandestine industries Brezhnev, who managed to correct the "showcase" in this way.

          2. Conditional "converges" (from a society of convergence, rapprochement with the West).
          The convergeists understood that it would not work to fan the fire of revolution in places where old capitalism was growing like Europe and the United States with handouts from Soviet-style technology, and the globe would not be fully embraced by socialism. This means that the iron curtain must be eliminated, the Western capitalist countries must be pressed closer to oneself and thus infect them with socialism as an infection. Andropov was a prominent representative of the convergist trend.

          Was there a confrontation between these two streams of Trotskyism? Of course, there were graters. They reached the population in the form of the removal of Khrushchev, distortion and caricature of the idea of ​​the Union as a showcase of socialism by secret firemen in the process of Andropov's purges. Both firemen and convergists were inept. Firefighters impoverished the USSR financially and ideologically decomposed due to kickbacks from tribal leaders to their own, firefighters, personal accounts in foreign banks. The converges were ideologically corrupted, knowing about these accounts and wishing to appropriate them to themselves. The convergeists, as the smarter and more active guys, won. Their victory, relying on the nationalism of the country's outskirts, resulted in the disintegration of the Union - they finally "approached" the West in a perverted form of trampling on their country and at the same time enriched themselves personally. And which of the Soviet leaders was enriched - we hardly know now. But even if no one has enriched themselves with secret bank accounts, they have enriched themselves with the opportunity to have them legally due to the monetization of ties.
          Thus, the idea of ​​spreading socialism around the world was buried by the mercenary motives of the extinct branch of firefighters and the mercenary degeneration of the branch of convergists.

          Dima, this is all very schematic. But when Mrs. Zhuravleva (tatra) speaks of the "enemies of the communists", one must have this general plan in mind, which, under the guise of a struggle for an idea, has skillfully buried the idea itself. Selfish motives disguised as a theoretical idea under Stalin, after his death, the mask was gradually pulled off his face. And then they pulled it off sharply in the 90s. When it was already impossible to do anything.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 31 March 2021 11: 03
            +2
            ........ Trotskyism ........ Stalin ........ against .......

            After the Second World War, socialist countries appeared on the world map. Stalin began to create a socialist bloc. Probably, he realized that they would try to strangle one socialist country. I fed other countries, covering the borders of the USSR. In theory, I did not succeed ... ... yes, I abandoned the world revolution centered in Germany.
            A socialist bloc centered in Moscow.
            request recourse yes I'll add it later
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 31 March 2021 16: 22
            +2
            .. schematic ...
            yes your comment, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, fits a lot!
            About Khrushchev. He acted very cunningly.
            After all, how many years have passed since the Second World War. People wanted to forget the horrors, so I think ......
            Life gradually improved, the country was rebuilt. The remnants of the destruction caused by the Germans were destroyed and removed, the evacuees returned, restoration and construction took place ... even new separate apartments appeared ... in newsreels shops with groceries, people in a new clothes of that time, women and men have fur hats, collars, children in fur coats. I don’t remember if there was a school uniform before the Second World War? I don’t remember from the movies. But after the Second World War ----- school uniforms, large bows, white front, trade schools also have uniforms, they are fully supported by the state ... scholarships for students ...
            They subdued the atom in order to resist the USA, satellites ... And who invented and implemented all this? It was believed, promoted, that Khrushchev. Although in fact these were all long-term programs of Stalin, which they did not remember .... The repressed began to return ........ But Khrushchev's report was not published in full. So, theses ...
            Therefore, they did not stand out against.
            1. vladimirvn
              vladimirvn 31 March 2021 16: 57
              +1
              About paid education in the USSR.
              https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c35852e62248c00aa8743f6/platnoe-obrazovanie-v-sssr-s-1940-po-1956-g-pochemu-ego-vveli-i-stalo-li-ono-obuzoi-dlia-naroda-5e3c2d58aff0b2449af004f5
            2. depressant
              depressant 31 March 2021 18: 46
              +4
              Dima, I do not look at particulars, I look in general, at the layers of history. That is why now the topic of seemingly completely forgotten Trotskyism has surfaced again, one of whose leaders in the form of a "convergist" was Andropov?
              The West was about to move closer to Russia, but knowing about the two currents of Trotskyism, it did not allow itself to doze off for a second. Mistrust is complete. He considers any actions of present-day Russia from this point of view: they say, are they "firemen" acting or "convergists"?
              The West does not believe that we are building capitalism (and I understand why it does not), and this despite Putin's assurances of a complete rejection of the ideology of socialism. The West believes that we split the USSR in order to undermine capitalism through the "convergent" branch of Trotskyism, that is, through rapprochement with it, the West. They do not believe Putin despite his palaces and sybarism, which he, without hiding, demonstrates and even, as it were, deliberately, without embarrassment or fear of anyone. Like, I'm mine, I'm a capitalist! And they don’t believe.
              Mistrust is also facilitated by the revitalization of our foreign policy, which is acting in the image and likeness of the actions of the Trotskyist "firemen" branch.
              The World Bank has calculated that by the end of 2019, about 30 developing countries owed Russia $ 22 billion. And this debt is unlikely to be paid off. Moreover, Russia continues to issue loans! Countries like Zimbabwe. Who will never give back these loans. Or what are Russia's interests in poverty-stricken Bangladesh? ... No words, only interjections and dots! The situation is exactly the same as under Khrushchev. Their people are undernourished, and the Mumbu Yumbu tribes must be well fed. Can the West, drawing an analogy with the Khrushchev and Brezhnev times, on the basis of such foreign policy actions of Putin, allow Russia to subvert itself against itself? Can! Maybe it does. All the options are calculated there. Not wanting to understand that in this way a significant part of the Russian budget is simply exported so that a small part of what is exported publicly settles in the pockets of the leaders of the tribes, and a large part is now undoubtedly on the secret personal accounts of exporters. You cannot explain to the West that there is a banal robbery of the Russian people under the guise of defending national interests. The West sees its own, namely the actions of the "firemen" who are fanning the fire of the world revolution in the poorest countries.
              And when the question “Hu of Mr. Putin?” Was once asked, it was not at all meant what kind of tribe he was, and who he was - a “firefighter” or “convergist.” That is, how he would destroy Western capitalism.

              And if Western fear, perhaps, simply has big eyes, the issue with Andropov has surfaced now due to the fact that questions within Russia have become more frequent: what did a certain KGB officer do when the USSR was being brought down? "Hu from Mr. Putin?" - people ask each other in Russian.
              And now, an interview with the EADaily news agency, given in 2019 by diplomat Vyacheslav Matuzov, is being taken from the far shelf, and dust is shaken off from that interview. Here, read, citizens, about the true authors of "perestroika" and the collapse of the USSR, but don't touch the KGB officer.
              Indeed, next to the figure of Andropov, the KGB officer becomes more invisible to us, but, paradoxically, it is more visible to the West. Whatever our PR people do, everything is not right.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 31 March 2021 19: 38
                +2
                Wonderful detailed commentary, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I will return more than once to both him and other comments on the article.
                Not knowing the prehistory of many events that I had not witnessed, I assumed that it would be beneficial for the West to have an enemy state and demonize it. Total evil, Morder, justifies the leadership's behavior for the sake of fighting it ..... the moral side and the material side exist. The USSR is destroyed. But the need for the enemy and the fight against him remained for the solution of some situations. The need for money is growing, the benefits from the destruction of the USSR have ended, and a new large recharge is required. The question of faith, in my opinion, does not exist, it is speculation to justify any deeds. There is a need to destroy Russia and gain benefits. Everything else is decorations, ritual dances. Even if you swear on blood, even if you cut off your skin ---- The West does not need an equal sign.
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 31 March 2021 19: 41
                +1
                Below I wrote the lyrics of the 90s song. That Masha, that Gazmanov had songs, where it was hidden behind a cheerful melody. ...
              3. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 8 May 2021 21: 11
                0
                Quote: depressant
                Or what are the interests of Russia in impoverished Bangladesh?

                Well, who will vote for Crimea and Abkhazia at the UN?
      4. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 30 March 2021 22: 42
        +3
        At the time of Andropov, I remember one thing, how, while watching a film, "comrades" came to the cinema and raised everyone with the question "Why are you not at work?"
        I especially liked this question in relation to our pilot-pilots ... I heard it with my own ears.
        The result of the answer, I think you already understood.
        But this is a fact.
        1. your1970
          your1970 31 March 2021 11: 28
          +2
          Quote: DED_peer_DED
          "comrades" and raised everyone with the question "Why are you not at work?"

          And no one asked the question - why are these DNDshniki- themselves not at work ????
      5. zenion
        zenion 13 May 2021 16: 44
        0
        Only recently, after carefully examining the photo, it was recognized that Andropov was a Jew of unknown nationality.
    2. Lannan Shi
      Lannan Shi 30 March 2021 08: 04
      +15
      Quote: Dalny V
      Andropov was too little at the head of the country to be able to say anything concrete about him.

      But he was in charge of the KGB enough to conclude that under him the committee had disintegrated completely and completely. Can you imagine that Medvedev, the one who is a spy, not an iPhone, went to serve as a guard to Vlasov? Andropov's fosterling of gold went to Yeltsin, who was no better than Vlasov. Can you imagine that Sudoplatov, continued Vlasov's case after the latter's words - I'm tired, I'm a muhozhuk? Another foster-child of Andropov, completely continued the work of that same Yeltsin. If for me, the result of Andropov's leadership was that the average morale for the committee dropped lower than that of those with whom the KGB had to fight. The bottom line? At a critical moment for the country, its main security service betrayed the country. And this fact says a lot about who supervised this service.
      1. Far B
        Far B 30 March 2021 08: 33
        -1
        Well, here you go too far. Both fosterlings at the time when the Committee was headed by Andropov, were nobody and did not call them. In any case, not the flight of the bird, so that he was directly interested in them. I hardly even met their names in any documents. And the KGB at the time of his death was quite a solid office, he knew his business. Another thing is that since the time of Khrushchev, the highest party nomenclature was actually withdrawn from the development. This is what Andropov did not correct - but whether he would like to correct it or not, I don’t know. I say, he spent too little time at the head of the country to draw any unambiguous conclusions.
        1. Lannan Shi
          Lannan Shi 30 March 2021 09: 06
          +9
          Quote: Dalny V
          Both fosterlings at the time when Andropov was in charge of the Committee were nobody and did not call them.

          Heh. The problem is not with these two types. The problem is in the personnel selection system and their promotion. You will not say that yes, the commander was a genius, but the fact that his army scattered at the first shot, since he collected all the trash from the surrounding garbage dumps there, is it a small fact that does not affect anything? So Mr. Andropov created a system under which unprincipled careerist abomination went on en masse in the committee. Which, in general, made up the backbone of the middle and top management by the age of 85-90. It was under Andropov that they fell into the ranks and grew up in ranks. And as you know - what is the pop, so is the parish. yes
          Quote: Dalny V
          Another thing is that since the time of Khrushchev, the highest party nomenclature was actually withdrawn from the development.

          1. The king is played by the retinue. Would the same Yeltsin have done a lot, being in a complete vacuum, without a heap of singing along quite accessible for development and landing? The maximum would have drank himself and died 10-20 years earlier.
          2. Well banned. And what? Clean a trifle. And collect dirt on those who are trying to cover them up. That's just the very fact of interference, without any direct development. The Central Committee was constantly fighting for influence. And with a couple of cabinets of such incriminating evidence ... Real bison were felled, not like the late Brezhnev seniors. But it really needs to work. Chasing a small disidu, and it is much easier to shove the fools of plumbers and rhyme-makers around. And you don't need much intelligence, but for career growth it is enough to speak correctly at a party meeting. yes
          Sorry. But ... I see you have a system error. The heyday of Soviet security, this is the end of the 30s-60s. And bureaucratization and decay began with Andropov. As a result, and led to the collapse of the country.
          That's all. For trying to persuade me that the typus destroyed one of the most powerful intelligence services on the planet, and became the beginning of its degeneration into a mediocre secret police. similar to the king's ... Frankly useless.
          1. Far B
            Far B 30 March 2021 09: 49
            +4
            HR problems are the eternal scourge of all managers laughing Moreover, Andropov was not omnipotent, as many believe him: until the 78th year, the KGB was under the Council of Ministers, so everything and everyone was coordinated, including personnel policy.
            The King is playing retinue
            I completely agree. The retinue, labeled for himself, pulled up only by the end of 86, after which he began to frenziedly "rebuild". Before that, I could not afford this. More than a year and a half - I couldn't. And Andropov was at the helm of the country for less than a year and a half, so he simply did not have time to remake the existing system. There was no retinue, there was no one to support. And before that, as the head of the Committee, even such a powerful one, he could not remake the system. Beria had an order of magnitude more leverage - they ate one horseradish. Therefore, it is an exaggeration to blame Andropov as the head of the KGB for personnel problems with the KGB. It was necessary to adjust the System, which loosened under mid-late Brezhnev. And Andropov, having become the leader of the country, nevertheless began to do this. And in the short time that he was at the helm, he managed to do a lot.
            For trying to convince me ... is useless
            God forbid me. I just expressed my point of view, nothing more.
            1. Lannan Shi
              Lannan Shi 30 March 2021 10: 46
              +3
              Quote: Dalny V
              The retinue, labeled for himself, pulled up only by the end of 86,

              And did this retinue spontaneously originate from the mold? Or has Martian intelligence been abandoned? Check out open source biographies. The same Chubais, for example, and Gaidar. Late 70s - early 80s. One joke can spoil your life. And here, in the second capital, damn it, in state institutions, damn it, civil servants, damn it, are developing theories of how to destroy the country more successfully. And they are nothing for that. In addition to bonuses and 13x salaries. Where is the pancake formidable and almighty, well, at least at this level of criminals almighty, the KGB?
              And who actually brought Gorbachev to the Central Committee? Something immediately comes to mind of Andropov. And who was in charge of the KGB when mustaches, tsviguns, mashers, kulaks died in a very strange way, however, you can remember others? Isn't it the Andropov himself?
              Don't you find it strange that those who really could have worked to save the USSR were suddenly struck by some strange pestilence? But the mold that was crumbling the country was bypassed even by the Gopniks, and some kind of shaggy paw was taking care of their well-being. And all this at a time when the KGB was in charge of the Andropov. This does not merge with the thesis of a powerful KGB. Either the KGB was a cardboard jerk, maximum suitable for the role of a garden scarecrow, or was engaged in anything, but not defending the country from an internal enemy. And the third is not given.
              As far as I can assess the situation, the collapse of the USSR did not start from the marked, but from Andropov. He directly sabotaged the fight against real enemies, and at least closed his eyes to the elimination of those who could save the country. What for? I do not know. But oddities remain oddities when they are isolated. And we are observing the system. And he missed it, and maybe created it, it was the KGB, headed by Andropov.
              Dixi.
              1. Captain Pushkin
                Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 11: 07
                +6
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                oddities remain oddities when they are isolated. And we are observing the system. And he missed it, and maybe created it, it was the KGB, headed by Andropov.

                I read the statements of the middle-level KGBeshniks about their participation in the collapse of the System and the country. They are very pleased with themselves and with the results ...
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 30 March 2021 18: 23
                  +1
                  When Gorbachev came to power and the creation of cooperatives began, you can see that loans were given, there were rules, regulations for the organization of cooperatives. This is not like his anti-alcohol campaign. With cooperatives, everything was thought out and prepared. And this was done under Andropov. That is, cooperatives that received loans, pulled funds and raw materials from state-owned enterprises, increasing the deficit - this was prepared in advance.
                  1. Captain Pushkin
                    Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 18: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    cooperatives, which received loans, pulled funds and raw materials from state-owned enterprises, increasing the deficit - this was prepared in advance.

                    In Germany, a group of students of the Faculty of Economics was offered to work out Ryzhkov's law on cooperation. They came to the conclusion that this law was developed solely with the aim of collapsing the economy of the USSR.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 30 March 2021 18: 59
                      +3
                      Quote: Captain Pushkin
                      ..... this law was developed solely for the purpose of the collapse of the USSR economy.

                      That's it! Remembering that the legislative machine is working slowly, we can confidently say that such a well-thought-out law was prepared by collectives of special employees, and not Gorbachev - he blew, spat and quickly came up with
                    2. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 31 March 2021 17: 38
                      +1
                      I also remembered. How easily they hung noodles on people's ears. Behind the music, Masha's bare feet did not ponder the text
                      1) The eerie darkness of corruption is stagnant
                      He enveloped us, almost ruining us.
                      But you shouldn't despair ---
                      Everything will be adjusted by the cooperative.
                      CHORUS:
                      There was an era by her,
                      The period was, --- be healthy, ---
                      Union of Fake Leaders
                      And real thieves.
                      And now Engels and Marx
                      They look at us with delight.
                      And obviously they like it,
                      That there will be meat in borscht.
                      2) The path is steep, not gentle,
                      But the impulse in the soul cannot be tamed.
                      Despite the wild taxes
                      We will find what to pay the racketeer with.
                      CHORUS.
                      3) of the past years, the ideological pirates
                      They tried to pervert our life.
                      But our co-operator woke up
                      And build communism at the bottom.
                      CHORUS.
                      4) And there will be meat in the borscht,
                      And also everything in general.
                      CHORUS.
                      Somehow this particular song quickly ceased to sound.
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 31 March 2021 21: 18
                        +3
                        Oddly enough, I don't remember such a song)))
                        Apparently, when it was heard by the community of the small Caucasian autonomy, in which I had a chance to live at that time, there were other concerns. One part of the community dreamed of taking life away from the other, the Russian part of the community, and did a lot for this. Here colleagues write that in the Andropov era, militiamen walked the streets, or whoever walked there - they walked and detained people, they say, why not at work? What an innocent, sweet show! And in our country, in response to the planting and execution of corrupt officials in Sochi, Moscow and in connection with the cotton business, Russians were slaughtered at night ...
                        Maybe Andropov wanted the best, but it turned out, as always happens with powerful people. A priori, the environment, so as not to fall under the distribution - they say, why did you miss the situation? - conveys to the person in power a half-truth that is convenient for himself, even if the person in power is the chief of the KGB Andropov. In any case, Andropov, already the general secretary, did not manage to shine on the socialist showcase of the USSR in order to get closer to the West with dignity, on an equal footing. As always, the environment rules the chief's policy.
                        However, there is another opinion. Andropov knew what he was doing. The notorious former diplomat Matuzov says that the rapprochement with the West was conceived by Andropov:

                        "... Andropov ... was the first secretary of the Komsomol Central Committee of the Karelo-Finnish SSR. Otto Kuusinen stood behind him. Who was Kuusinen associated with? With Lieutenant General of State Security Yevgeny Pitovranov. This is the" father "of all Andropovs, Primakovs and other leaders "restructuring" ... "

                        On the role of General Pitovranov:
                        "... The thread stretches from the Comintern and Leon Trotsky. The" red thread "in this story is the struggle of Joseph Stalin against Trotskyism in the ranks of the law enforcement agencies. In my opinion, it was all created on the basis of the special services ..."

                        Who is General Pitovranov?
                        Information:
                        Lieutenant General Yevgeny Petrovich Pitovranov was deputy chief from June 1946, and from September 1946 - chief of the Second Main Directorate of the USSR Ministry of State Security (counterintelligence department). Since December 1950 - Deputy Minister of State Security of the USSR. From January 5 to May 5, 1953, General Pitovranov headed foreign intelligence as deputy chief of the First Main Directorate of the USSR Ministry of State Security.

                        Further Matuzov explains:
                        “... further changes ('perestroika') were carried out not on the basis of the KGB, but with the help of the KGB, but outside the framework of the KGB. Where did Primakov come from? This is not the KGB system. a member of the Politburo ... These were parallel structures that duplicated the KGB. Outwardly they worked in conjunction with the party apparatus. But in reality these institutions were ... strong, under the auspices of Andropov ... "

                        On the role of KGB General Oleg Kalugin:
                        "... These same forces created the Leningrad center, where they at one time transferred Major General Oleg Kalugin, who at the PGU (the first main directorate of the KGB) headed the department of the USA and Canada, and was also the head of the external counterintelligence of the PGU ..."

                        On the main role of Primakov in "perestroika":
                        “... I believe that the central figure who made the transition from 'perestroika' to the shootout and the current situation was Yevgeny Maksimovich. I believe that Boris Yeltsin and Gorbachev were people of a secondary plan. This was an external picture. controlled the entire process - before perestroika, perestroika and after perestroika, when all sorts of Austrian institutions were formed, was tied to Primakov and other heirs of Andropov's plan ... He (Primakov) was the main actor who completed Andropov's plan to restructure the Soviet Union. language, Primakov was watching the process - all these years ... The mechanism of "perestroika" was carried out by Primakov's supporters outside the KGB, partly attracting personnel from there that Andropov personally created ... "

                        What were Primakov's views in 1974?
                        As a member of the editorial board of the newspaper Pravda, any negative in which any official put an end to his or her official's career, Primakov, according to Matuzov, declared in friendly conversations that the socialist system has outlived its usefulness, it is necessary to move away from it and start living like in the West.
                        For a minute, it was 1974! The country did not yet suspect that it was already being prepared for surrender. In a nightmare, this could not have dreamed of an ordinary citizen!

                        And here, again, according to diplomat Matuzov, what Primakov thought about Gorbachev:
                        "... Gorbachev is a very narrow-minded person, two-faced. He had no position, except for the desire to destroy socialism. Gorbachev overestimates the importance of his views so that he would be paid more in the West. He submitted to the Politburo and made a decision depending on who the first to approach him ... Gorbachev is a rag, a pawn, nothing at all. "
                        And further Matuzov asserts: behind the collapse of the USSR were Andropov's heirs, brought up by him. That is, the conditions were created for the transition from the system in which we lived to the Western model.

                        So, time goes by, the old diplomats, apparently sensing the approach of the end, begin to confess. And what is behind this - conscience tortured (after all, he did not object, it means he participated!), Or the desire to remain in the memory of descendants as an honest person is unknown to us. One thing is clear: very soon this interview was pulled out ahead of time, which in 2019 passed without a trace, and now it is as a last resort to save the reputation of an inconspicuous KGB officer. Like, it certainly wasn't there.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid April 1 2021 04: 14
                        +1
                        Once again I was delighted with the new important information and a huge commentary, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I've read about Kuusinen.
                        But I heard the name of Pitovranov for the first time.
                        Of course, Andropov knew all this, he consciously carried it out. It could not be otherwise. It's just that after all his posts, a person could not but know, understand.
                        And more and more. Here somewhere it was written about his fatal illness ...
                        If you ask and think about this situation, then it is generally not clear how adequate such a patient is. In my opinion, this is a severe disability with all the consequences ... I am not a doctor, but I have seen very different people.
                      3. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid April 1 2021 04: 21
                        +1
                        About the song. At that time there were different ones that people listened to, both on the radio and at concerts, on TV. ... and it turns out, against socialism, against the USSR ...
                        I will also look at the texts
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 30 March 2021 16: 27
          +1
          "the dawn of Soviet security, this is the end of the 30s-60s" In fact, then it was: THE EPOCH OF THE FIGHTERS.
    3. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 11: 47
      +4
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      Lannan Shi Today, 08:04 New
      +1

      Quote: Far In
      Andropov was too little at the head of the country to be able to say anything concrete about him.

      But he led the KGB enough to conclude that under him the committee had disintegrated completely and completely.

      The Americans proudly puff out their cheeks and hint that they had SUCH AGENT in the leadership of the USSR, that no one will ever guess who it was. And in my opinion, many have already understood who the Americans are so proud of ...
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 30 March 2021 16: 44
        +3
        "" Americans proudly puff their cheeks "1) real pros from intelligence will not shout about this -" leaking information to the enemy. "2) reporters around the world cannot live without a sensation, and even more so American reporters.
    4. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 March 2021 13: 12
      +4
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      Quote: Dalny V
      Andropov was too little at the head of the country to be able to say anything concrete about him.

      But he led the KGB enough to conclude that he had a committee ...
      Exactly. Who led the country in the last years of Brezhnev's life and illness? Just that stagnation?
      Guys, speculation and so on?
    5. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 30 March 2021 13: 33
      -1
      Can you imagine that Medvedev, the one who is a scout, not an iPhone, went to serve as a guard to Vlasov? Andropov's fosterling of gold went to Yeltsin, who was no better than Vlasov.

      Stop posting your nonsense. Ask about the personality of Colonel-General Bobkov, what administration did you manage (ideological) and to whom did you go to serve? This is not Andropovsky. It is entirely Communist, led the ideological management of the office.
    6. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 9 May 2021 08: 32
      -1
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      But he led the KGB enough to conclude that under him the committee had disintegrated completely and completely.

      You gave 3 surnames. Does this somehow indicate a completely decomposed KGB? Yes, there was also Kalugin. But there were always defectors and traitors. Even under Stalin, even in the USA and England.
  3. Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 30 March 2021 08: 40
    -2
    Quote: Dalny V
    then my dad, a participant in the events in Damansky, always spoke with respect about Andropov. And for some reason I believe it.

    My father-in-law, at that time serving in the police of Odessa, a lieutenant colonel of the Soviet police, a Communist with a capital letter! .. He also treated Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov with the deepest respect .. For some reason I also believe my father-in-law!
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 30 March 2021 16: 53
      +6
      My mother is a participant of the Second World War, when Yu V. began to tighten up the discipline, she just perked up. She and other participants in the Second World War, probably, were happy for half a year: finally, there will be order!
      I didn't dream about it.
  4. iouris
    iouris 30 March 2021 12: 00
    +2
    Quote: Dalny V
    under him they began to tighten discipline

    If! “Under him,” young special officers were oriented and began to specifically form compromising evidence on the commanders of units and Soviet leaders, to promote those whom they considered controllable, to push aside and remove the “uncontrollable”. A campaign was carried out to discredit the leaders of the CPSU hostile to Andropov. For what it became clear in August 1991.
    But Andropov himself was hardly the main figure. In my opinion, he was also manipulated. He was hooked. By the way, the name of the head of the KGB of the USSR was Kryuchkov.
  5. vladcub
    vladcub 30 March 2021 15: 26
    +1
    Indeed, under SE, they began to tighten up the discipline. And many did not like it.
    To some extent, I am a "victim" of the Andropovism. Remember when you "tightened up" labor discipline? And then I "raked off" the piston. And I'm not offended, I understand what the matter is
  • Barsikof
    Barsikof 30 March 2021 05: 05
    +20
    For me, Andropov is the person who raised Gorbachev ... And that says it all!
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 30 March 2021 05: 37
      +16
      And Yakovleva. On this about his "great" plans, you can finish. The encirclement makes the king.
      Drive the cops through the streets during the day people with the question: why not at work? To declare war on unearned income - to destroy greenhouses, drive grannies with seeds and carrots. That's all he had enough intelligence for. The most interesting thing is that they did not run into either trade or farts. BUT! Not! Also make vodka in beer bottles. Cheap and disgusting. Andropovka.
      Like Shchedrin: they expected bloodshed from him, but he ate the siskin.
    2. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS 30 March 2021 07: 00
      +15
      Quote: Barsikof
      For me, Andropov is the person who raised Gorbachev

      I join. There is nothing to add.
    3. tatra
      tatra 30 March 2021 07: 37
      +4
      Enemies of the communists are real - only when they have no benefit to lie and hypocrite, and Gorbachev, until his very Perestroika, pretended to be a "loyal communist". Becoming the General Secretary, he lied to the people that he was going to build "socialism with a human face", and he himself was preparing a counter-revolution, under the guise of "rejuvenation" of the highest echelons of power, replaced the real, according to his convictions, communists, with the same as he who helped him to destroy USSR .
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 30 March 2021 08: 48
        0
        Gorbachev did not want to destroy, and he could not prepare a counter revolution, he did not have enough brains for this, he is stupid, he himself did not know what he wanted
        1. tatra
          tatra 30 March 2021 09: 01
          +5
          The enemies of the communists, by their example after their seizure of the USSR thanks to Gorbachev, proved that in order to destroy, destroy, instill anger and hatred, slander, one does not need intelligence.
          He knew everything, and massively replacing the communists in the highest echelons of power, expelling all the members of the Politburo who were in it after Gorbachev became General Secretary, and launching a total slander against the communists, praising Nicholas II, he deliberately destroyed the USSR and the CPSU.
          1. your1970
            your1970 31 March 2021 11: 37
            0
            Quote: tatra
            expelling all the members of the Politburo who were in it, to

            In fact, they themselves did not die, mostly ..
            Carriage racing, isn't it?
      2. Captain Pushkin
        Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 11: 26
        +7
        Quote: tatra
        Until his very Perestroika, Gorbachev pretended to be a "loyal communist".

        Sobchak joined the Communist Party under Gorbachev, after which I left it.
        At that time he was a member of the party committee. Someone then joined the CPSU, and more left it.
        After the next meeting, it was agreed that those who leave are better than those who enter.
        It was a very bad symptom.
    4. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 11: 09
      +6
      Quote: Barsikof
      For me, Andropov is the person who raised Gorbachev ... And that says it all!

      Add numerous Chubais-Gaidars there and the picture will become brighter ...
    5. iouris
      iouris 30 March 2021 14: 58
      +1
      Quote: Barsikof
      For me, Andropov is the person who raised Gorbachev ...

      There is no need to raise people like Gorby: they themselves grow. It is necessary to raise cadres who are willing and able to act in a political organization that leads the country and people to a high goal.
    6. vladcub
      vladcub 30 March 2021 17: 02
      +1
      In this case, let's blame Brezhnev: they made a career under him: Rashidov, Aliev, finally Petrushka began his career in the Komsomol
      1. iouris
        iouris 30 March 2021 21: 21
        0
        The first two you mentioned are quite worthy communists. Rashidov, in the opinion of serious researchers, was slandered, which still goes around .. I did not understand who Petrushka is.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 31 March 2021 08: 34
          +1
          Heydar Aliyev said that back in the 70s he was thinking about national command personnel for Azerbaijan.
          Petro Poroshenko was the secretary of the Komsomol
  • Free wind
    Free wind 30 March 2021 05: 30
    +2
    Somehow, Andropov treated his children ambiguously. The eldest son served a couple of times, then drank himself and died, Andropov did not want to see him. I didn’t see any children from my second marriage either, I almost didn’t want to see them. Stalin, Khrushchev and even Brezhnev treated their children humanly. I tried to establish discipline, but again the performers went to the extreme. The cops began to check the documents of everyone on the street, Like what you go during working hours. In a place with a passport, you must carry a certificate that you are on vacation, or work the night shift, or a pensioner, etc.
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 30 March 2021 07: 53
      +6
      At that time I worked as a bus driver at an enterprise, took shifts from and to work.
      In the morning, half of the accounting department went shopping (like to the bank), waited for them there, then brought them back with purchases, and it began, trying on, exchanging, discussing new things, etc.
      Now no one was working.
      It was almost impossible to get some kind of certificate or invoice before lunchtime.
      Naturally, the chief accountant was guilty, who allowed this, but when the checks began, everyone in the accounting department sat still.
      1. iouris
        iouris 30 March 2021 15: 32
        +1
        It suddenly started and suddenly (three days later) ended and never happened again.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 30 March 2021 17: 14
      +1
      "the performers have gone to extremes again," and this is a "family trait" of local officials.
      Nikita said: "corn" and let's plant at the North Pole. So with Andropov
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 March 2021 06: 15
    +1
    It would be foolish to repeat the thoughts of famous people. The feeling was that the era of document verification had come. Before that I could freely move around the country without documents. Except perhaps by plane, or going to some closed city. We, the workers, did not affect all the transformations. I think , a blow to all Soviet leaders is a well-thought-out action.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 30 March 2021 06: 22
    +1
    Quote: mmaxx
    And Yakovleva. On this about his "great" plans, you can finish. The encirclement makes the king.
    Drive the cops through the streets during the day people with the question: why not at work? To declare war on unearned income - to destroy greenhouses, drive grannies with seeds and carrots. That's all he had enough intelligence for. The most interesting thing is that they did not run into either trade or farts. BUT! Not! Also make vodka in beer bottles. Cheap and disgusting. Andropovka.
    Like Shchedrin: they expected bloodshed from him, but he ate the siskin.

    Where do these myths come from?
    At that time, I freely walked around Moscow, it was during working hours, I went to the cinema for afternoon sessions, as a student. There were rumors about detentions and reports to work, but I did not see it, there are no witnesses among my acquaintances, as well as documents regulating these measures with the police, no one for certain will find. Some of the narrow-minded, perhaps on their own initiative, did something, like my lecturer in a specialized specialty, spending 15 minutes in the roll call of the course by surname every academic hour.
    Vodka ... an interesting question. Andropovskaya cost 4-70, it became cheaper, but in a euro bottle like Russian, for 5-30, I did not see. In the 70s, beer and vodka were bottled in one type of bottle. Beer bottles are always made of dark glass, and vodka bottles are always made of transparent.
    Who has the greenhouse destroyed? You? I don’t remember that something happened to mine.
    Grandmothers were often driven away from the metro, not only under Andropov.
    The usual myths about those already distant times, like with the departure of WWII veterans, there are myths about cadaveric fields, about a rifle for three, even about the fact that the drum magazine for the PCA is not interchangeable and unreliable. My father did not tell me about the PPSh.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 30 March 2021 07: 13
      0
      You know, my mom and her friend got into such a "mess".
      They were sent to full-time refresher courses. To Kiev. The train schedule was such that it was necessary to leave VERY early. They have arrived, they understand that there are still two hours left. Well, we went to the "Ukraine" department store. Walk around, see.
      Here, in one of the departments, a couple of people in civilian clothes and a policeman approached them. Politely asked why not at work. The women presented their referrals and passports with nonresident registration. The reviewers apologized and moved to another department.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 31 March 2021 09: 12
        +2
        The cop stopped me once, though there was: "school la femme", and I had a sick leave.
    2. moreman78
      moreman78 30 March 2021 09: 45
      0
      [quote = Konnick] [quote = mmaxx]
      even that the drum magazine for the PCA is not interchangeable and unreliable. My father did not tell me this about PPSh. [/ Quote]
      Study this question first, and then declare so categorically.
      If someone didn’t talk about something, it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen. And the fact that disc magazines were often not interchangeable HAD A PLACE TO BE (the store was fitted to a specific machine at the factory or in repair shops). Installing the magazine required careful alignment of the disc and machine. The disc had to fit exactly into the narrow grooves. Summarizing the experience of using the PPSh, the front-line soldiers separately pointed out the complexity of this operation. That is why the SECTOR STORE FOR PCA was created.
      1. Captain Pushkin
        Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 11: 31
        0
        Quote: moreman78
        If someone didn’t talk about something, it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen.

        I never read about the PPS, and my father said that his PPS did not shoot upwards - the mainspring was weak.
      2. Konnick
        Konnick 31 March 2021 09: 45
        0
        the fact that disc magazines were often not interchangeable HAD A PLACE TO BE (the store was fitted to a specific machine at the factory or in repair shops). Installing the magazine required careful alignment of the disc and the machine. The disc had to fit exactly into the narrow grooves. Summarizing the experience of using the PPSh, the front-line soldiers separately pointed out the complexity of this operation. That is why the SECTOR STORE FOR PCA was created.

        Do you know what drum shops and PPSh itself did at different factories? Find the drum magazine requirements in the PCA manual.
        Those who directly participated in the battles preferred the drum, and the sector one was with the signalmen, the artillerymen ... Look at the photo in Berlin after the Victory, these are scouts - all have the "Excellent scout" badges, medals for Courage on a small block. They already knew a lot about weapons.

        Also watch this video and don't repeat the myths.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3scecJHjInA
    3. mmaxx
      mmaxx 31 March 2021 07: 00
      0
      I think that in Moscow they tried not to anger the people and, frankly, fed them. And in the regions ... That is why the communists got them all.
    4. vladcub
      vladcub 31 March 2021 09: 05
      +1
      I remember: beer in dark green or brown bottles. For some reason, we didn't have brown bottles at all in the 70s. And there were many in the city.
      Regarding: "one rifle for three" at the end of 1941 at the beginning of 1942 in some places it happened that for the detachments of the people's militia, there were not enough rifles and cartridges were tight.
      I heard about this from the front-line soldiers, there are documents from a different time. And Brezhnev in Malaya Zemlya said that there were few cartridges, hence the rumors that there were no rifles at all.
      The PPSh of the first issues had such a "sin". They talked about this in the program: "I Serve the Soviet Union"
  • parusnik
    parusnik 30 March 2021 06: 35
    +3
    smile There are many opinions, there is no common one. The main thing is that Andropov's dostochka was restored with the GDP.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 30 March 2021 06: 47
    +5
    who wanted to establish KGB control over the party and the country,


    The KGB, however, is no longer the same, but ...

    He maintained personal contacts with the poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko, known for his anti-Stalinist views,


    What? Is this champion in spinal flexibility an anti-Stalinist? Do you read his biography?

    Summary. One comrade was right. History is what we remember ourselves. Everything else, they will write to us.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 31 March 2021 07: 02
      +1
      Do you know what our countryman's name was - Yevtushenko? Evtukh. Draw conclusions. The poems are good, but they won't give such a nickname to a good person.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 30 March 2021 07: 03
    -2
    knowing this:
    In early 1983, a special Economic Department was created in the Central Committee of the CPSU to develop a full-scale economic reform. Scientists were involved in the work A. Aganbegyan, O. Bogomolov, T. Zaslavskaya, L. Abalkin, N. Petrakov, who subsequently took an active part in reforming the economy during the perestroika period initiated by Mikhail Gorbachev.
    and considering that
    It was in Andropov's department that scientists, politicians, journalists and diplomats such as F. Burlatsky, G. Arbatov, A. Bovin, G. Shakhnazarov, O. Bogomolov.
    .
    it becomes clear that it is Andropov who is the architect of the restructuring (in its worst case), for the implementation of which at the beginning of 1983 Andropov instructed Gorbachev and Ryzhkov start preparing economic reform

    Two prominent Russian statesmen Pyotr Stolypin and Yuri Andropov

    absolutely incomparable quantities
    1. tatra
      tatra 30 March 2021 07: 45
      +6
      What Andropov did has nothing to do with what your "Liberator" Gorbachev, enemies of the communists, did. Andropov - "strengthening labor discipline" - Gorbachev - a mess, anarchy, Andropov - a real fight against corruption, at least in Moscow trade and public catering, many were then imprisoned, about 15-20 thousand workers of Moscow trade and public catering were fired , Gorbachev has freedom for criminals.
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 30 March 2021 08: 47
        -1
        Quote: tatra
        What Andropov did has nothing to do with what your "Liberator" Gorbachev did

        I don't often agree with you. Here I fully agree. At that time, the idlers and idlers, all sorts of pisses, staggered through the streets abruptly disappeared. young ladies and those who like to go shopping during their working hours .. the cinema halls were emptied at daytime sessions, the queues at beer stalls disappeared (during working hours) ... hucksters with a shortage between their tails turned their heads ..
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 9 May 2021 08: 36
          -2
          Quote: 30 vis
          At that time, the idlers and idlers, all sorts of pisses, staggering through the streets abruptly disappeared. young ladies and lovers of shopping around the shops during their working hours .. the halls were emptied by the cinema, at daytime sessions, the queues at the beer stalls disappeared (during working hours)

          Sorry, but this is a question for the head of the enterprise, where his workers hang around
    2. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 11: 35
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      Two prominent Russian statesmen Pyotr Stolypin and Yuri Andropov

      absolutely incomparable quantities

      That's for sure. But...
      Someone can remember something from "Stolypin" besides "Stolypin carriage" and "Stolypin tie"?
      Well, perhaps even about the defeat of the peasant community, the core of its "reforms" ...
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 March 2021 13: 06
        -4
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        Someone may remember something from "Stolypin" except for "Stolypin carriage"

        Of course, this is, first of all, the agrarian reform, which completely reformed the community with its obsolete and worthless lowest labor productivity and its most important part is the settlement of Siberia.

        and the Stolypin cars were fine adapted for migrants to Siberia.

        They did not have steel bars and muzzles: all this is the "invention" of the next regime, which turned them into wagons and thus gave them a bad name
        Such cars were also built, much ahead of their time - by a hundred years:
        .
        as for the insult to the then demschiz - "Stolypi tie", then none of the Duma deputies accepted it:
        The event took place on November 17, 1907 at a meeting of the III State Duma. The famous cadet Fyodor Rodichev took the podium. The beginning of his speech provoked an unhappy reaction from the deputies. Then, losing composure, in passion, Rodichev recalls the expression of V. Purishkevich about "Muravyov's collar". And then, according to the transcript of the meeting, he said: "what Purishkevich calls the Muravyov collar, the descendants will call the Stolypin tie." The cadet meant by this a rope for the gallows ... Purishkevich himself was dissatisfied with such a comparison

        The reaction of the audience to the spoken words was lightning fast. Exclamations of indignation were heard from everywhere. The deputies shouted that it was dishonest and despicable to insult, rushed to the podium and tried to forcefully pull the presumptuous Rodichev off it. Despite different political views, the MPs expressed their sharply negative attitude to the disgusting comparison..

        During the break, Pyotr Arkadyevich, as a nobleman,l Rodichev challenge to a duelb. Rodichev immediately rushed to Stolypin, in the presence of several people he repented of his deed and asked for forgiveness.

        “I forgive you,” Stolypin said, and the incident was over. But Stolypin never again shook hands with Rodichev after that.


        The reaction of the State Duma was also not long in coming - as punishment for "non-parliamentary expression" Rodichev was expelled by the Duma for 15 sessions ("The Century")

        Bloated and picked up by the next regime
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 14: 32
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          Someone may remember something from "Stolypin" except for "Stolypin carriage"

          Of course, this is, first of all, the agrarian reform, which completely reformed the community with its obsolete and worthless lowest labor productivity and its most important part is the settlement of Siberia.

          The community was the basis of local government. She, or rather her principle of land distribution, led to an explosive growth in population. Without him, Russia would hardly have survived in those days. And it certainly would not have been able to master new territories.
          The Congresses of the Communities put on the agenda the transfer of landlord lands to the communities and the resettlement of landowners to Siberia, to develop new lands. It is clear that the tsar, through the hands of Stolypin, did exactly the opposite. That's the whole "reform".
          By the way, local self-government was introduced by Ivan the Terrible, for which the Romanovs hated him and continue to hate the current "liberals".
          Quote: Olgovich
          As for the insult to the democrat of that time - the "Stolypi tie", none of the Duma deputies accepted it:

          You would still refer to the current Duma ...
          And what is "Stolypin's tie", felt on their necks over 6 thousand people. Which were hanged according to the decision of the "triplets", sometimes without even asking the name of the hanged man.
          By the way, in those troikas, at the suggestion of Stolypin, there should have been no persons with legal education.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 30 March 2021 18: 10
            +1
            "which were hanged by the decision of the" triplets "in fairness, the death sentences were passed: by military-field courts."
            I read about this at school
            1. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 18: 45
              -1
              .
              Quote: Astra wild2
              I read about this at school

              Have you read that too?

              The court-martial consisted of 5 people: the chairman and 4 officers.
              The latter were appointed by the head of the garrison by order of the commander-in-chief or the governor-general.
              No preliminary investigation was carried out in the case.
              The verdict that was passed was based on materials provided by the gendarme office or the security department.
              The court-martial did not provide for the participation of a prosecutor, witnesses, or a defense attorney.
              The meetings were held behind closed doors.
              The indictment was replaced by an order.
              By personal order of the emperor, a clause was introduced into the Regulations, according to which, the verdict was to be adopted no later than 48 hours.
              At the same time, it immediately took effect and within 24 hours had to be executed
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 30 March 2021 19: 47
                +1
                Least of all, I am going to justify the tsarist regime.
                Imagine that I read this too.
                I foresee the minuses, but these: the "troikas" were not very different from the "special meeting" of 1937. It seems they were canceled back in 1939. I don’t remember exactly.
            2. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 18: 54
              -1
              There were also district military courts. There the Composition consisted of 3 permanent members (troika) and 4 temporary officers.
              So the military district courts executed many times more people than the military courts.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 31 March 2021 08: 31
            -3
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            The community was the basis of local government.

            the community is a wildly low labor productivity, striped and borderlands, low productivity.
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            led to explosive population growth

            does the community rule in Bangladesh too? lol
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            Congresses of the Communities

            oh, the alternative has gone! lol
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            That's the whole "reform".

            REFORM ensured the settlement of Russian people in Siberia and the allotment of lands to them - many THOUSANDS of settlements were formed.
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            You would still refer to the current Duma ...
            And what is "Stolypin's tie", felt on their necks over 6 thousand people. Which were hanged according to the decision of the "triplets", sometimes without even asking the name of the hanged man.

            hung killers caught with weapons in hand. They put things in order.

            for the year 37-38 fired at 1,3 per day the whole year (the majority is justified) -you are okay then.

            And the cattle trucks are those in which the murderers killed tens / thousands of UNDISCEDED peasants and exiled peoples.
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 30 March 2021 17: 59
          0
          "in the presence of several people he repented", but according to the modern "changed his shoes"
        3. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 19: 22
          +2
          Thousands of people were hanged and the atrocities of the bloody couple Stolypin-Nicholas II continued; when in May 1908 Leo Tolstoy wrote:
          “And this is being done in that Russia, in which there was no death penalty, the absence of which, as I was once proud of before the Europeans. And here never ceasing executions, executions, executions. It's the same today. But now it is something terrible, for me, at least, such that I cannot, let alone remain silent, cannot live as I lived, in communication with those terrible creatures who are doing these things. Today the newspaper contains short words: the death sentence was executed in Kherson by hanging over 20 peasants, that is, 20, twenty people of the very ones whose labor we live, the very ones whom we corrupt with all our might, starting with the poison of vodka, which we solder them, and ending with soldiery, our nasty institutions, which we call laws, and, most importantly, our terrible lies of the faith in which we do not believe, but with which we are trying to deceive them, 20 of these same people, the only ones in Russia, on the simplicity, kindness, hard work of which Russian life is maintained, these people, husbands, fathers, sons, like them, we dress in shrouds, we put on caps on them, and under the protection of the deceived soldiers taken from them, we put them on a platform under the gallows , put on loops in turn on them, push out the benches from under their feet, and one after another they tighten the loops with their weight around their neck, suffocate, writhe and, in three minutes full of the life given to them by God, freeze in dead immobility, and the doctrine Ohr walks and feels their feet - are they cold ...
          I appeal to all the participants in the crimes that are incessantly committed under the false name of the law, to all of you, from those who cocked them to the gallows and put on caps and loops on human brothers, on women, on children, and to you, the two main secretive executioners, who, with their connivance, participate all these crimes: to Peter Stolypin and Nikolai Romanov.

          Come to your senses, come to your senses. Remember who you are and understand what you are doing.

          After all, you, before being executioners, prime ministers, kings, first of all, people and brothers of people, now looked out into the light of God, tomorrow you will not be. (You, who caused and aroused, both the executioners and you, special hatred, you especially need to remember this.) Really you, looking out for this one short moment into the light of day - after all, death, if you are not they will kill, here she is always behind us all, - can your vocation in life be only to kill, torture people, tremble with fear of murder and lie to yourself, to people and to God that you are doing all this? on duty for some invented non-existent goal, for an invented just for you, precisely so that, being a villain, you can consider yourself an ascetic of an invented Russia ...

          Can you believe that, without satisfying the requirements, the specific requirements of the entire Russian people and the requirements of the most primitive justice already recognized by the majority of people, the requirements for the destruction of land property, not even satisfying the other requirements of youth, on the contrary, irritating the people and youth, you can you calm the country down with murders, prisons, links? You cannot but know that by doing so, you not only do not cure the disease, but only intensify it, driving it inside ...

          At first I thought about Pyotr Stolypin, when I had the naivete to offer him a speech with a project to free the land from property, that he was only limited and confused by his position, I also thought about Nikolai Romanov, that by his birth, education, environment he had been brought to the stupidity that he manifested and manifests in his actions, but the longer the current situation continues, the more I am convinced that these two people, the perpetrators of the atrocities and corruption of the people, are consciously doing what they are doing, and what exactly they are, who are in the environment where they , due to their ability to satisfy the desires of the people around them, live in a constant atmosphere of flattery and lies that these two people more than any others need exposure and reminder.

          Yes, all of you, from the first executioner to the last of them, Nicholas II, come to your senses, think about yourself, about your soul ... "
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 31 March 2021 10: 12
            0
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            Thousands of people were hanged and the atrocities of the bloody couple Stolypin-Nicholas II continued

            1. steal others article is sinful.

            2. Tolstoy, unfortunately, did not live to see the "bright" thief days / decades, when the victims of the authorities were not a few thousand real murderers and rapists, but millions of innocent people and more than 10 million people died of hunger alone with cannibalism and corpse eating, which was not even mentioned in Russia.
            1. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 31 March 2021 14: 07
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              Olgovich (Andrey) Today, 10:12 New
              -1

              Quote: Captain Pushkin
              Thousands of people were hanged and the atrocities of the bloody couple Stolypin-Nicholas II continued

              1. to steal other people's articles is a sin.

              If you don't understand, this is an open letter from Lev Nikolaevich Tolstoy. And nothing more.
              Quote: Olgovich
              the victims of the authorities were not several thousand real murderers and rapists, but millions of innocent people, and more than 10 million people died of hunger alone, with cannibalism and corpse-eating, which was not even mentioned in Russia.

              As for 10 million people who died of hunger, it is rather the United States that is closer to this figure, but even here it is in the millions. Including, and because the grain was exported for sale in the United States. To save the "beacon of democracy and other things," otherwise there would not have been 7-8 million dead, but 15-20 million.
              In the United States, the number of victims of the man-made famine is still classified. This is in the sense of US citizens, and no one counted dead migrants there at all.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich April 1 2021 08: 29
                -2
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                If you don't understand, this is an open letter from Lev Nikolaevich Tolstoy.

                if you do not understand, then you have stolen and the introduction to it - in YOUR comments there is NOT a single letter of yours.
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                As for 10 million people who died of hunger, it is rather the United States that is closer to this figure, but even here it is in the millions. Including, and because the grain was exported for sale in the United States. To save the "beacon of democracy and other things", otherwise there would be not 7-8 million dead, but 15-20.

                what are the 8 million dead in the ... USA? belay
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                In the United States, the number of victims of the man-made famine is still classified. This is in the sense of US citizens, and no one counted dead migrants there at all.

                Do not talk nonsense - there was no death from hunger, this stupid nonsense even the co-propagandists were ashamed to write. "Discovery" was made only ... a few years ago by an ordinary turkish ...
                1. Captain Pushkin
                  Captain Pushkin April 1 2021 09: 41
                  +1
                  [quote = Olgovich] [quote = Captain Pushkin] [quote = Captain Pushkin] As for 10 million people who died of hunger, it’s more likely that the United States is closer to this figure, but we also have millions. Including, and because the grain was exported for sale in the United States. To save the "beacon of democracy and other things", otherwise there would be not 7-8 million dead, but 15-20. [/ Quote]
                  what are the 8 million dead in the ... USA? belay
                  I quote (who, if interested, look for):
                  “If you believe American statistics, over the decade from 1931 to 1940, according to the dynamics of population growth, the United States lost no less than 8 million 553 thousand people, and the indicators of population growth change immediately, instantly, two (!) Times exactly at the turn of 1930 / 31 years old, fall and freeze at this level for exactly ten years ... There is no explanation for this in the vast, hundreds of pages, text of the US Department of commerce report "Statistical Abstract of the United States"
                  "Few people know ... about five million American farmers (about a million families) at exactly the same time, driven by banks from the land for debts, but not provided by the US government with neither land, nor work, nor social assistance, nor old-age pension - nothing."
                  “Every sixth American farmer fell under the Holodomor roller. People went nowhere, deprived of land, money, their home, property - into the unknown, seized by mass unemployment, hunger and widespread banditry. "
                  John Steinbeck told how it happened: “Whole wagons of oranges fell on the ground. People travel several miles to pick up discarded fruit, but this is completely unacceptable ... Millions of hungry people need fruit, and golden mountains are poured with kerosene ... Burn coffee in locomotive furnaces. Burn corn instead of firewood - it burns hot. Dump potatoes into rivers and set up guards along the coast, otherwise the hungry will catch everyone. Slaughter the pigs and bury the carcasses in the ground, and let the ground become saturated with rot.
                  This is a crime that has no name. This is grief that cannot be changed by any tears.
                  People come with nets to catch potatoes from the river, but the guards chase them away ... they hear the screeching of pigs, which are slaughtered and covered with lime in the ditches, they look at the orange mountains, along which landslides of the fetid slurry slide down; and in the eyes of the people is defeat; anger ripens in the eyes of the hungry ... "
                  [quote = Captain Pushkin] In the United States, the number of victims of the man-made famine is still classified. This is in the sense of US citizens, and no one counted the dead migrants there at all. [/ Quote]
                  Do not talk nonsense - there was no mortality from hunger, this stupid delirium even the propagandists were ashamed to write. The "discovery" was made only ... a few years ago by an ordinary turok ... [/ quote]
                  The US government disposed of surplus food that traders could not sell. You cannot violate the laws of the market - what is not bought is superfluous, to distribute it to the hungry means to strike a blow at business.
                  Food was destroyed “in various ways and on a grand scale: grain was simply burned and drowned in the ocean. For example, 6.5 million heads of pigs were destroyed and 10 million hectares of land with crops were plowed ”.
                  The consequences of such actions were natural. Here are the child's true memories of these years: “We replaced our usual favorite food with a more affordable one ... instead of cabbage we used bush leaves, ate frogs ... within a month my mother and older sister died ...” (Jack Griffin) "
                  A separate topic is "public works".
                  "Under the auspices of the Public Works Administration (PWA) and the Civil Works Administration - NEA, the work consisted of the construction of canals, roads, bridges, often in uninhabited and swampy malaria areas. Up to 3,3 million people were employed at a time. , all in all, 8,5 million people went through the American system of "public works" - this is not counting the prisoners themselves. "
                  “The conditions and mortality at these jobs are still waiting for their attentive researcher ... from the $ 30 nominal salary of a participant in" public works ", the obligatory deductions were $ 25. Five dollars for a month of hard labor in a malaria swamp.
                  “In total, according to calculations, in 1940, the US population, while maintaining the previous demographic trends, should have amounted to at least 141,856 million people. The actual population of the country in 1940 was only 131,409 million, of which only 3,054 million can be explained by changes in the dynamics of migration. So, 7 million 394 thousand people as of 1940 are simply absent. There are no official explanations for this. "
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich April 1 2021 10: 15
                    -2
                    Quote: Captain Pushkin
                    I quote (who, if interested, look for):

                    in US statistics by year NO excess mortality in relation to the pre-crisis and post-crisis years.

                    The question was examined in detail in the discussion with Vladimir. Three months ago, there is nothing.

                    There is NOT a single testimony of our journalists, our diplomats, or our intelligence officers
                    Quote: Captain Pushkin
                    This is a crime that has no name. This is grief that cannot be changed by any tears.

                    it is yes:
                    special reference of the OGPU dated March 17, 1933
                    TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 74, 75, 76, 77, 78. The original.
                    Excerpts from the doc:

                    VOLODARSKY DISTRICT. In the village of Rudoye, leaving 3 small children at home, the sole owner I **** left the village. Having absolutely no food, by agreement with the older sister, A 9-year-old boy killed a 3-year-old girl (sister), after which her head was cut off and corpse meat was eaten raw.
                    CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT. Poor Zh *** died of malnutrition in the village of Andreev. 11 year old malchik - he opened the stomach of his deceased father with a knife, took out the insides and prepared themto cook.
                    VINNYTSIA REGION ...
                    On the basis of hunger, cases of cannibalism were noted:
                    In the village of Pinkovka, a collective farmer, poor K ***, 50 years old, killed his two daughters 7 and 9 years old, whose meat he ate for food... The killing of K *** o's children is clear from hunger for a long period of time

                    etc. .

                    And this was not the case either in Russia or in the world.
      2. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 30 March 2021 13: 45
        +3
        In the order of your educational program - "Stolypin carriage" is absolutely identical to "Potemkin village". The car was originally designed to transport and relocate peasant families along with utensils and livestock. Then the Bolsheviks began to transport prisoners in them by "redeveloping" the carriages. Stop believing in myths. There is a lot of information on the Internet now.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 30 March 2021 15: 06
          +1
          Quote: Okolotochny
          In the order of your educational program - "Stolypin carriage"

          ... Ol'govich, as always, educates himself with myths and fairy tales (it is just that sometimes there is a feeling that after this nickname Svanidze goes to VO). What he, like many and many non-living ones, calls a "two-story Stolypin carriage" is actually a carriage built at the Russian-Baltic Carriage Works "RBVZ" - in a single copy. Moreover, in 1902 ..
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 31 March 2021 10: 20
            -2
            Quote: mat-vey
            Olgovich, as always, educates himself with myths and fairy tales (it is just that sometimes there is a feeling that after this nickname Svanidze goes to VO). What he, like many and many non-living ones, calls "a two-story Stolypin carriage" is actually a carriage built on the RussianBaltic carriage plant "RBVZ" - in a single copy .

            Where Dunno Matvey was formed, it's generally not clear: THREE passenger double-decker carriages were built in Tver, at the Verkhne-Volzhsky plant railway materials, as well as 5 double-decker non-passenger-on Putilovsky factory.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 31 March 2021 17: 40
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              where dunno matvei was formed, it's not at all clear

              This is as much as nine, and not a single Stolypin ...
          2. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 31 March 2021 14: 54
            -1
            No, here Olgovich is right. I answered "Captain Pushkin", who will never be a major if legends are passed off as truth.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 31 March 2021 17: 55
              0
              Quote: Okolotochny
              if legends are passed off as truth.

              And what is the "legend"?
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny April 1 2021 09: 38
                0
                "Stolypin carriage" - the legend is that the concept "Stolypin", "Stolypin carriage" - a carriage for transporting prisoners (there are no other concepts) were introduced into use during the Bolshevik era. The carriages were created during Stolypin's premiership and were intended to transport peasant families and communities to virgin lands in the eastern part of the Republic of Ingushetia. The carriages were designed to transport families with everything they needed - household utensils, agricultural implements, livestock. This is so that when unloading at the place of arrival, the peasants pass the "acclimatization" as quickly as possible, and become involved in the economic and production processes as quickly as possible. After all, remember in school, when the achievements of the USSR were compared with 1913. RI? Why? Namely, at this time, RI gave the maximum indicators in the economy. But it was Stolypin's efforts, including the resettlement of peasants to the eastern regions of the country, that gave such an effect. After coming to power, the Bolsheviks converted these carriages to transport prisoners. And it was from that moment that the "Stolypin carriage" meme appeared.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey April 1 2021 09: 48
                  +1
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  The Bolsheviks, after coming to power, converted these carriages for the transport of prisoners.

                  A freight car can be "converted" into a lot of things ... And transport peasants, and soldiers, and livestock and, of course, for its intended purpose ...
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  But it was Stolypin's efforts, including the resettlement of peasants to the eastern regions of the country, that gave such an effect.

                  They made a lot of fun this hour ..
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Stolypin carriage "- the legend is that the concept" Stolypin "," Stolypin carriage "- a carriage for transporting prisoners (there are no other concepts) was introduced into use during the Bolsheviks

                  The legend is that the Bolsheviks did not know about the resettlement in Stolypin wagons ..
            2. mat-vey
              mat-vey April 1 2021 09: 32
              0
              Judging by the "-" with the legend of the problem ...
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny April 1 2021 09: 48
                0
                For example, I also put "-" for you. Is there a problem with you too ??? Is this an indicator for you? That is, looking on the Internet is not an option, but looking at the cons ??? For lovers of everything Soviet and denial of other periods in the history of the country - tell me, are you proud of the victories of Peter, Spiridov, Rumyantsev, Potemkin, Suvorov, Ushakov, Kutuzov, Nakhimov, etc.? What kind of people are you? There was a tsarist period in Russia, whether you like it or not. And he was not always inglorious. There would be no Catherine and Potemkin, and God knows what would happen to the Crimea.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey April 1 2021 09: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  That is, looking on the Internet is not an option, but looking at the cons ???

                  Yes, like that on your "-" ...
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  For lovers of everything Soviet and denial of other periods in the history of the country - tell me, are you proud of the victories of Peter, Spiridov, Rumyantsev, Potemkin, Suvorov, Ushakov, Kutuzov, Nakhimov, etc.?

                  You are here about the Internet .. imagine - in Soviet times they denied so much that they not only wrote a bunch of books about victories, but even made movies - and all with pride in their ancestors .. You can even search the Internet ..
                2. mat-vey
                  mat-vey April 1 2021 09: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  There was a tsarist period in Russia, whether you like it or not. And he was not always inglorious. There would be no Catherine and Potemkin, and God knows what would happen to the Crimea.

                  There was a period of the USSR in history, and if it were not for him, then you would not have been, whether you like it or not ..
        2. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 19: 04
          0
          Quote: Okolotochny

          +1

          In the order of your educational program - "Stolypin carriage" is absolutely identical to "Potemkin village".

          In these cars (people and cattle in ONE carriage), through the efforts of Stolypin, more than 5 million peasants were transported to Siberia.
          This is all within the framework of the Stolypin program
          "REDUCING THE EUROPEAN PART OF RUSSIA", (read the encyclopedic dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron) and in whole villages drove the Russian people in carriages of cattle-stolypniki. No one counted how many of them died in these cattle trucks from hunger and thirst, and how many died on uninhabited lands.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 31 March 2021 15: 01
            0
            In these cars (people and cattle in ONE carriage)

            You change your shoes on the fly. You originally wrote about the zakach car? According to legend, they are called "Stolypin wagons"? I explained to you that to call the carriage-zak Stolypin is a synonym for the Potemkin village - a legend based on a lie. It was the Bolsheviks who made the zak car from Stolypinsky.
            In these cars (people and cattle in ONE carriage)

            The cars were equipped in accordance with the times. Separate places were equipped for the cattle. And this was done so that the migrants "were immediately involved in the process," the family came to a new place of residence with everything necessary.
            No one counted how many of them died in these cattle trucks from hunger and thirst, and how many died on uninhabited lands.
            So why star? And calculate what this resettlement has given to the economy of Ingushetia?
            1. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 31 March 2021 17: 59
              +1
              [quote = Okolotochny] Today, 15:01
              +1

              In these cars (people and cattle in ONE carriage)

              You change your shoes on the fly. You originally wrote about the zakach car? According to legend, they are called "Stolypin cars"? [/ Quote]
              And where did I write about this? "Stolypin wagons", and the rest is your guess. Your fantasies are not responsible.

              [quote] In these cars (people and cattle in ONE carriage) [/ quote]
              The cars were equipped in accordance with the times. Separate places were equipped for the cattle. [/ quote]
              What would you like to ride, with a separate seat in the cattle truck.
              I do not like? Not a lordly business? Well, yes, this is the very thing for the slaves ...
              [quote = Okolotochny] Nobody counted how many of them died in these cattle trucks from hunger and thirst, and how many died on uninhabited lands.
              So why star? And calculate what this resettlement has given to the economy of Ingushetia? [/ Quote]
              Indeed, since the victims are not taken into account, what are we talking about? After all, who steers the economy got something from this ...
              Well, if the victims of 1937 are not counted and then everything will be the way, the economy jumped like a jump - put into operation three new factories a day, i.e. every 8 hours a new production was launched, where there was Stolypin ...
              I quote: "So why star then?"
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny April 1 2021 09: 18
                -1
                Do not you be a major - you are an ordinary verbiage, the beginning of the 19th century does not mean anything to you? And when the prisoners were brought to a bare field (permafrost, in Soviet times) and they lived in barracks. How many died there? Enough verbiage, you got your money for the "Stolypin wagon", wipe yourself down and live on.
                1. Captain Pushkin
                  Captain Pushkin April 1 2021 09: 56
                  +2
                  Okolotochny ... Is it a gendarme or a policeman?
                  I will not be a major - I have been retired for a long time.
                  An interesting train of thought - Stolypin killed people correctly, because it was necessary, but the Bolsheviks ... This, as they say now, is "different."
                  He asked what people remember from Stolypin besides "Stolypin tie", "Stolypin carriage" and the destruction of the Community, and then it began. Squeals and whimpers.
                  What, the mere mention of the "Stolypin carriage" according to liberal canons pulls on the corpus delicti?
                  Are you for freedom of speech? And "Stolypin carriage" "is it different"? Taboo ... No, no ...
              2. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny April 1 2021 09: 41
                +1
                And how many people died on the great construction sites of the USSR? If you said A, then say B. But here I see, but here I do not see.
                1. Captain Pushkin
                  Captain Pushkin April 1 2021 09: 58
                  +1
                  In fact, the topic was about Stolypin. But if you want to present the entire history of the Russian State in three sentences, for God's sake, do it, and dismiss me.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey April 1 2021 10: 13
                    0
                    Quote: Captain Pushkin
                    In fact, the topic was about Stolypin.

                    What is interesting - as soon as the topic for "Stolypin's cars", for some reason, "Rykovsky's two-story carriage" always starts to flicker.
                    The past war revealed the entire inconsistency of a heat-driven carriage and even a class IV car, which is why a two-story class IV car for 152 people, Rykovsky system, has now been proposed for the current winter transportation of recruits.
                    The internal structure of the car is as follows:
                    1) Four compartments for the lower ranks (for 148 people), with benches for sitting, which are laid out in a very simple way at night in solid sleeping bunks, in the lower floor in two tiers, and in the upper one in three.
                    2) Officer's compartment for 4 people, with a toilet for officers.
                    3) Lavatories for the lower ranks on both floors.
                    4) Steam compartment with boiler.
                    5) Reinforced exhaust ventilation and intake ventilation with air filtration through cotton wool-asbestos and simple; Having passed through the cotton wool, the air, entering the carriage, meets the hot heating pipe and is retained on it by a deaf casing that closes the pipe; then the air turns to the sides and a certain distance passes along the same blank casing, washing the pipe, and then, through the holes in the casing, it enters the car, heated to almost summer temperature.
                    6) Steam kitchen, with separate boilers for soup and porridge.
                    7) A cube for cooking boiling water with steam.
                    8) A cube for cooling boiled drinking water.
                    9) Apparatus for boiling milk with steam.
                    10) Laundry - it is also a washroom for the upper floor and a washbasin for the lower floor.
                    11) Four gas extinguishers and one hydraulic control panel.
                    12) Five brake valves from automatic brakes.
                    It is high time to archive the usual transport of troops in the so-called teplushkas, with gates instead of doors.
          2. mat-vey
            mat-vey 31 March 2021 18: 21
            -1
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            In these cars (people and cattle in ONE carriage), through the efforts of Stolypin, more than 5 million peasants were transported to Siberia.

            Something you flatter Stolypin ..
      3. mat-vey
        mat-vey 30 March 2021 15: 22
        0
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        Someone can remember something from "Stolypin" besides "Stolypin carriage" and "Stolypin tie"?
        Well, perhaps even about the defeat of the peasant community, the core of its "reforms" ...

        I also remember his military courts.
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 30 March 2021 18: 13
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          Someone can remember something from "Stolypin" besides "Stolypin carriage" and "Stolypin tie"?
          Well, perhaps even about the defeat of the peasant community, the core of its "reforms" ...

          I also remember his military courts.

          In terms of the number of capital punishments, the courts-martial lag far behind the military-district courts ...
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 30 March 2021 18: 26
            -1
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            In terms of the number of capital punishments, the courts-martial lag far behind the military-district courts ...

            On the other hand, in terms of democracy, they are far ahead of them.
            1. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 31 March 2021 14: 15
              0
              Quote: mat-vey
              Quote: Captain Pushkin
              In terms of the number of capital punishments, the courts-martial lag far behind the military-district courts ...

              On the other hand, in terms of democracy, they are far ahead of them.

              You forgot to quote ... "democratic" ...
              There is more democracy at the thieves' meeting than in the Nicholas-Stolypin military-field courts.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 31 March 2021 17: 49
                0
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                You forgot to quote ... "democratic" ...

                Whoever is even a little familiar with the topic and without quotation marks will understand sarcasm - you understood right away ..
  • Undecim
    Undecim 30 March 2021 07: 35
    +5
    Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov held the post of the head of the CPSU and the head of the Soviet state for only 15 months.
    Of these, 10 months in a hospital ward.
    What kind of "Andropov project" or governing the country can we talk about if Andropov was, at the time of his election as general secretary, a terminally ill person whose health was rapidly deteriorating.
    In June 1983, at the session of the Supreme Council, at which he was elected Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, he did not even rise to the podium.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 30 March 2021 07: 47
    +2
    His statement that they do not know the country in which they live says a lot. He "chased" the people, but it would be necessary for the party nomenclature who had usurped power and lost its shores. Perhaps this was what he wanted - to scare the people and give the Trotskyists an opportunity to finish the coup to capitalism, which began with the arrival of Khrushchev. The KGB did not do anything to suppress the activities of the Banderaites and the green brothers released after Stalin's death. Moreover, it was Andropov who brought up the young reformers and sent them to Switzerland for advanced training. It was he who "let" the hunchback into the general secretaries ...

    In general, I can't say anything good about him.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 30 March 2021 12: 00
      0
      Trotskyists making a turn towards capitalism, well, your head is a mess
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 30 March 2021 08: 03
    +4
    This act of restoration of the memorial plaque by Yu.V. Andropov had a certain symbolic meaning. This was the period when the Russian government was headed by Vladimir Putin, who previously held the post of head of the FSB (successor to the KGB), who soon succeeded Boris Yeltsin as president of Russia.
    ...Those. Andropov Yu.V., was the ideological inspirer of what has been happening for 30 years? And there is no memorial plaque on Lubyanka, Dzerzhinsky?
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 March 2021 08: 23
    +8
    Scientists A. Aganbegyan, O. Bogomolov, T. Zaslavskaya, L. Abalkin, N. Petrakov were involved in the work, who subsequently took an active part in reforming the economy during the perestroika period.

    I would be careful not to call this pack of democrats scientists.
    1. iouris
      iouris 30 March 2021 11: 55
      +3
      These "institutions" were created under Andropov and actually worked in the KGB system of the USSR. They began to promote the idea of ​​"non-viability of the USSR" already in the mid-1970s. In addition, Andropov supported the "dissidents" Lyubimov and "Taganka", they even said that "The Time Machine." It was not for nothing that Vysotsky was allowed too much. They planned and implemented not reforms, but a coup.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 30 March 2021 17: 49
        -1
        Don't like Vladimir Vysotsky?
        1. iouris
          iouris 30 March 2021 21: 17
          +1
          How did you come up with the idea to ask me this question?
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 30 March 2021 20: 22
        +1
        These "institutions" were created under Andropov and actually worked in the KGB system of the USSR.

        The Institute for the USA and Canada was created under Andropov? Did he work in the KGB system? You are greatly mistaken. Of course, the KGB had a lot of, let's say, informants there, but no more.
        1. iouris
          iouris 30 March 2021 21: 16
          0
          Quote: Aviator_
          Institute for the USA and Canada

          You shouldn't have dragged him in. The persons involved did not work in this institution. But they also did their bit.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 30 March 2021 21: 20
            +1
            Sorry, wrong. I thought that Yakovlev was on the list. But this academic get-together (Zaslavskaya, Abalkin, Petrakov) is also not from the organs.
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash 30 March 2021 10: 06
    +5
    The function of the KGB, which Andropov ruled for 15 years, is to ensure the security of the state. The KGB did not cope with this main function, Andropov - since he had been the head of the KGB for so many years - definitely did not cope with it either. To put it mildly. What else can you talk about?
  • Cure72
    Cure72 30 March 2021 10: 22
    +1
    Quote: Free Wind
    The eldest son served a couple of times, then drank himself and died, Andropov did not want to see him.
    Buried in Bendery, Transnistria. The grave is the most common. Flowers have never been seen on her.
  • iouris
    iouris 30 March 2021 10: 47
    +4
    Mysterious, I would call Andropov's mentor or curator - Kuusinen. Most likely, Kuusinen had other creatures who managed to form a structure for a new (counter-revolutionary) project, which ensured the seizure of power and the suppression of competitors. The viability of this project remains in great doubt.
  • polygraph sh.
    polygraph sh. 30 March 2021 13: 28
    +1
    eeeeeh, if I knew what trampler works for you in the GDR, fufel!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 30 March 2021 17: 47
    0
    "Conducting economic reforms in the spirit of the NEP" in my opinion would be great.
    Remember what preceded the introduction of the NEP? There was a collapse of the economy, devastation. Then some people believed that the "bourgeois" defeated the Soviet regime. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin used to say: "NEP is serious and for a long time," but can anyone doubt Lenin's mind?
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 30 March 2021 19: 34
      0
      Comrades, and, after all, Astra is right: how to treat V.I.Lenin - it WAS GREAT.
      NEP is many times better than the current market. Remember, then "natural monopolies", as they say now, were in the hands of the state, but now?
      Then large-scale production was state-owned or "joint production" - much better than now
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 30 March 2021 19: 36
        +1
        Colleague, Vladkub. Thank you for understanding
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 31 March 2021 18: 11
        +1
        Quote: vladcub
        NEP is many times better than the current market.

        Is it okay that the NEP took place under the dictatorship of the proletariat? And now there is complete domination of the capitalist class? Or such "trifles" in your opinion can not be taken into account?
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 31 March 2021 21: 06
          +2
          Naturally, under the current conditions Lenin's NEP is not acceptable. And in those conditions it was possible. Of course, full copying was out of the question, but in the spirit of the NEP
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey April 1 2021 07: 33
            0
            Quote: vladcub
            Of course, full copying was out of the question, but in the spirit of the NEP

            the spirit of the NEP is the dictatorship of the proletariat, how do you propose to copy this "current conditions"?
            1. vladcub
              vladcub April 1 2021 08: 07
              +2
              Didn't you read it carefully?
              "under the current conditions Lenin's NEP is not acceptable. But under those conditions it (1982) was possible."
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey April 1 2021 08: 16
                0
                Quote: vladcub
                And in those conditions it (1982) was possible. "

                “The draft Party Program poses and resolves a new, most important question of the theory and practice of communism - about the development of the state of the dictatorship of the working class into a state of the whole people, about the nature and tasks of this state and about its fate under communism.
                The state of the whole people is a new stage in the development of the socialist state, the most important milestone on the way of the development of the socialist statehood into communist public self-government. " - know who said when and what followed?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 30 March 2021 19: 20
    -2
    Comrades, so that they don't talk about Yu. V.: both the villain and the American spien are all nonsense.
    I believed and still believe that only Yu. V. Andropov could save the Union, but he was already a seriously ill person.
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 30 March 2021 22: 54
    +2
    Andropov understood the impasse of the Brezhnev stagnation, but he did not intend to return the country to the rails of socialism, which is determined by the dictatorship of the proletariat. By this time, the country was in full swing during the transition period from socialism to capitalism, which ended with the coup of 1991 and the privatization of public property for the means of production.

    Maybe he could have saved the USSR for a while, but most likely not, because Instead of fighting nationalists and nationalism, as well as the massive growth of bourgeois ideology in the country, the KGB under his leadership fought dissidents who, due to their small numbers, did not play a special role in the destruction of the USSR ..
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 31 March 2021 18: 51
      0
      Good afternoon, Alexander!
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Andropov understood the impasse of the Brezhnev stagnation, but he did not intend to return the country to the rails of socialism, which is determined by the dictatorship of the proletariat. By this time, the country was in full swing during the transition period from socialism to capitalism, ..... Maybe he could have saved the USSR for a while, but most likely not, ........

      Andropov, in my opinion, not only understood the dead end of stagnation, but he himself participated in its creation, being in office for 15 years. He did not want to preserve the USSR as a socialist state, otherwise he would not prepare, would not work out the law on cooperation. In my opinion?
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene April 2 2021 22: 25
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        He did not want to preserve the USSR as a socialist state, otherwise he would not prepare, would not have worked out the law on cooperation. In my opinion?

        That's right, Dmitry.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 31 March 2021 22: 04
      +3
      Basically, I agree with you, but we now understand that the various: the Sharanskys, Solzhenitsyn, or whoever else was there, are insignificant.
      To some extent, the fight against dissidents is a manifestation of the confusion of the ideological department of the Central Committee.
      Nikita promised the victory of communism in 1980, but for now it is necessary to keep track of dissidents.
      Indeed, even before 1967, the main direction was "the fight against ideological sabotage." The leaders of the nationalist underground understood: to fight openly - 100% death and they hid.
      Perhaps the CIA was deliberately pointing out: "a shadow on the fence": they say dissidents are our main support?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid April 3 2021 07: 37
        0
        I don't know much about dissidents. Almost nothing. Were they few? Insignificant? Punisher in reality psychiatry, like? But did you fight somehow? If we equate it with that language, then now I will add them and no one is fighting with them. ... request haven't thought of it yet ..
        1. vladcub
          vladcub April 3 2021 17: 19
          0
          It was different. Sometimes fooling through the top, but still it WAS ORDER, and NOW IS A SHOULDER
  • Tarasios
    Tarasios 31 March 2021 09: 56
    +1
    I was too small to judge Andropov's rule. I only remember that then literally in a matter of weeks on the streets during working hours there were practically no loiters, and even more so drunk. And people began to zealously observe working hours and generally keep to the schedule. The term “unemployed” was tantamount to a petty criminal. And even there were no mass arrests and executions as an "incentive", by the way. As for a huge empire, for the most part, accustomed to a certain carelessness - it was really from the realm of fantasy. The more I live, the more I am convinced of this.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 31 March 2021 14: 39
      +3
      Showy repressiveness at the bottom, and at the top of the elite personnel replacement. Shitty way for any independent state.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 31 March 2021 14: 34
    +3
    Why such praises? - Andropov is not a regular Chekist, but a "commissar" assigned to the KGB. Secondly, the godfather of Mishka the Marked, and therefore all Mishka's accomplices in the Politburo, in the Central Committee, and in the Ministries. It is a pity that Iron Kostya (K.U. Chernenko), due to his old age, did not have time to clean up all Andropov's creatures. You look, the state of the working people would have been preserved.
  • Roman Pastukhov
    Roman Pastukhov 31 March 2021 18: 04
    +1
    On the Internet you can find a documentary about the last year of Yuri Andropov's life. One of the main storytellers is his personal bodyguard who has worked with him for 20 years. He said that if Yuri Vladimirovich had lived for another 3 years, there would have been no restructuring, but the exacerbation of chronic gout prevented. He also said that his ward for the last 2 months of his life ruled the country from a hospital bed.
    Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov had an excellent command of the situation inside the country and understood that the country needed reforms, primarily economic ones. The flip side of this process - he saw the need for more democratic reforms than they were before, and in general, his views can be called partly liberal. It is no coincidence that the developments in economic and political reforms that were made by the working groups under Andropov were later not very successfully used by Gorbachev. What this led to, we all know very well.
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi April 1 2021 03: 14
    +4
    panegyric to Andropov ..., it is rather funny, the comparison with Beria is simply ridiculous. Perestroika is the Andropov project, the peak of organ decay passed under his leadership, the recommendations of the KGB lowered and buried Soviet computers, dubious successes as an ambassador to Hungary, a dubious past during the war years and before the war ..., Khrushchev's twin in career and achievements, and, in general, the possible mole MI6 ..., and even as General Secretary did not show himself in the best way, Gorbachev's nomination also does not speak of Andropov as a thinking and responsible politician ... but if the assumptions about his cooperation with foreign intelligence are true, then all his activities are more than reasonable.
  • Fat
    Fat 30 May 2021 09: 58
    0
    Thank you so much for the article.
    I remember when Yu.V passed away .....
    It was February 9, 1984.
    I consider this date to be the beginning of the end of the Great Power of the USSR