Military Review

The emergence of the Ukrainian question

130

Ancient Russia



At the dawn of the Russian stories there were no, strictly speaking, Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, and any textbook will tell you about tribal unions, like the Volynians or Vyatichi, about the beginning of the formation of their statehood. And about the Varangians, they are Vikings, they are normal. It was from these elements that the Russian state was formed. And this happened for objective reasons: both internal - the Slavic tribes in their numbers and development had already reached a certain level, and external - the path from the Varangians to the Greeks flourished.

In the end it turned out what happened. And the Norman Oleg, the prince of Slovenia, captures Kiev - the capital of the glades. And creates a single state. Later, almost all Slavic tribes begin to pay tribute to Kiev, where Oleg moved his capital. In 988, Russia adopted Christianity, under Yaroslav it became one of the strongest states in Europe. But, again, no Russia, no Ukraine, no Belarus.

In 1132, Ancient Russia disintegrated completely. But, again, it is stupid to look for the national here. Ordinary feudalism. Talks about nations in relation to the inhabitants of Smolensk or Kolomna are drawn only to delirium. The people understood this. The residents of both Novgorod and Galich considered themselves to be Russia in the same way, and the princes of the "sovereign" were all relatives, moreover, their neighbors. A single church, language, culture remained. In 1187, however, the word "Ukraine" is mentioned, but how

"There is a lot of poston about him in Ukraine"

and in the context of the Pereyaslavl principality, which was "Ukraine", in the sense of a frontier - the border between Russia and the steppe, on which the war never stopped.

The name is fair. And then, and after 850 years, Ukraine remains the frontier. The steppe was replaced by the Ottomans, the Ottomans - by the West. But this land plays the role of a battlefield between us and them, that is, those for whom we are a resource. The Mongol invasion and the Golden Horde, in fact, did not change anything. Is that at the beginning of the XIV century the Galician principality went to Poland and was lost for Russia forever, and Volyn - to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, also Rus, but led by the Gediminovichs.

It so happened that Russia was slowly and surely rebuilding as a whole from two centers: one of them was Moscow, the second - Vilna. To modern Lithuania, that principality has nothing to do with that which occupied it, and the present Lithuanians are the descendants of Zhmudi, but this is so, by the way. The phenomenon is, in general, common: two centers fought for state unity. Many in Europe experienced this, but in our country it ended in a draw, which was the beginning of the split of the Russians, at first imperceptible.

Khmelnytsky region


The emergence of the Ukrainian question

In the 1456th century, centrifugal tendencies accelerated, and the religious question was the start of this. Back in the XNUMXth century, there were two metropolises of Kiev: one in Galich, the second in Vladimir. And, in fact, Orthodoxy has nothing to do with it - the Rurikovichs fought for power. It is clear that the Gediminovichs also did not want their church to be subordinate to Moscow, where the Metropolitan moved from Vladimir, and set up their Kiev Metropolitanate, however, in Vilna in XNUMX.

In the 1569th century, two unions were signed. The first was in 1596, under the name Lublinskaya. And according to it, Kiev region, Volhynia and Podillia were transferred to Poland in exchange for the creation of an equal federation of Vilna and Warsaw. The fact is that Vilna was slowly and surely losing to Moscow, old Russian cities like Chernigov, Gomel, Bryansk, one after another, returned to Russia, and it seemed that a little more ... But it did not work out. Orderly Westernized Lithuanian princes and nobles preferred Warsaw to Moscow. In XNUMX, the situation was aggravated by the Beresteyskaya church union, which the population of Little Russia did not support and which actually made Orthodoxy illegal.

But for Little Russia (again, small - in the sense of the old, historical) difficult times have come. It was during this period that a price revolution was taking place in Europe, and Polish tycoons fell for the golden rain. In Moscow at that time, serfdom was difficult, in Europe too. And what was happening on the territory of Volyn and the Dnieper region was simply horror, aggravated by the constant raids of the Crimean Tatars, armed squabbles between the tycoons themselves and the Cossacks.

The Cossacks, in general, are an international phenomenon. In those days, wherever there was a burning border, hotheads settled who did not obey the authorities, did not believe in God or in the devil, and were waging their own war. And the Cossacks fought against the Poles, the Tatars, and Russia. A forgotten fact - Susanin was killed not by the Poles, but by the Zaporozhye Cossacks ... Nevertheless, it was the Cossacks who became the force that fought against Poland and the union. In the first third of the XNUMXth century, a series of Cossack uprisings swept across Little Russia. They demanded little - expanding the register and removing obstacles in the campaigns against the Crimea and the Ottoman Empire.

The uprisings were mercilessly choking. But in 1648, the head of the next riot, Bogdan Khmelnitsky, despite all the tales, agreed with the Crimean Tatars for the same purposes. In the same year, the united army reached almost to Warsaw, but did not storm the capital of Poland: Khmelnitsky sincerely tried to agree on the forty thousandth register and assign himself and his comrades-in-arms the dignity of the gentry. Negotiations were also conducted with Moscow, but Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich was openly afraid, having every reason for this - the Troubles ended less than half a century ago, and the war with Poland seemed a dubious undertaking. And the Cossacks did not fit into Russia at that time, to put it mildly, not very well. As a result, the war dragged on. Over time, the Cossacks began to suffer defeat, and Russia was faced with a choice: either to observe the massacre of Russian and Orthodox people (and Khmelnitsky himself titled himself Prince of Russia) further, or to intervene. The people would not have forgiven him for the first one.

As a result, the Pereyaslavl Rada of 1654, and the autonomous Little Russia - the Hetmanate within Russia. True, not all. On this territory, the fighting thundered for a long time. Hetmans and candidates for hetmans called on anyone to get the coveted mace. The result is Ruin, a war of all against all, in which the Ottoman Empire and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth willingly intervened. The ending is somewhat predictable: Little Russia was simply divided. The left bank and Kiev with Zaporozhye passed to Russia, becoming an autonomy within it, with very broad rights. The devastated Right Bank partly went to the Commonwealth, and partly to the Ottomans.

Then the Ukrainian question was born in the modern sense - there were too many applicants for fertile and half-empty lands. And the locals, who gravitated towards Russia, were never particularly asked.

Why?

In that glorious era, who weapon - he is the main one, but the peasants and townspeople did not have it.

To be continued ...
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  1. Sofa batyr
    Sofa batyr 31 March 2021 03: 58
    +12
    Norman Oleg, prince of Slovenia, captures Kiev - the capital of the glades. And creates a single state

    It is not clear why the names of Askold and Dir (a whole layer), the boyars-vigilantes of the Novgorod prince Rurik (after whose death Oleg reigned in Novgorod), were deleted from the history and graphics, because Prince Oleg himself is the uncle-mentor of the young Igor Rurikovich, whom Oleg is almost in his arms brought it to the Dnieper bank?

    But for Little Russia (again, small - in the sense of the old, historical) difficult times have come.


    "Old, historical" is this a historical, linguistic, political mistake?

    How and why "small"treated as" old "?
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 31 March 2021 05: 33
      +11
      Then the Ukrainian question was born in the modern sense - there were too many applicants for fertile and half-empty lands. And the locals, who gravitated towards Russia, were never particularly asked.

      Why?

      In that glorious era, whoever had a weapon was the main one, but the peasants and townspeople did not have it.


      Here is THIS (summarized article), is this a publication in the "History" section?

      I wonder what the editors of this section have about History as such, if they allow such materials to be published?

      Why is it not published in the "Opinions" section, because there is one on the site where it would not look so depressingly illiterate and definitely distorting history?

      Now - to the one highlighted in the quote. What is the author's mistake in this case?
      Yes, in the elementary - Not knowing history and interpreting it in your own way.

      For example, the same Little Russia, practically the same historical period (1768) - "Koliivshchyna", a large-scale uprising of the Haidamaks from among the Orthodox peasant and Cossack population in the Right Bank Ukraine against the economic, political, religious and national oppression of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, under the leadership of Maxim Zheleznyak and Ivan Gonta.

      Were the rebels so unarmed?
    2. knn54
      knn54 31 March 2021 09: 40
      0
      -How and why is "small" interpreted as "old"?
      The author did not mean the old one, but the central one. Those are the "core".
      By analogy with Greece, the central region of which (with Athens)) is called Little Attica.
      - A forgotten fact - Susanin was killed not by the Poles, but by the Zaporozhye Cossacks.
      The fact is that initially False Dmitry1 had less than 1000 Poles - 300 horsemen and 500 infantrymen. But in the Kiev region a lot of local people joined. And later - 1000 Zaporozhye 1500 (!) Don Cossacks. Those who believed in False Dmitry joined.
      No matter what they wrote (especially foreign historians), the authority of Ivan the Terrible among the people was high, which was what the invaders took advantage of.
      The basis of the ON was Belaya Rus. That is, the Lithuanians are the Belarusians. The Lithuanians were Mitskevich, Senkevich, Kosciuszko, Oginsky, and Pilsudski.
      Prominent military leaders of Poland Potocki and Wyszniewiecki are also not Poles.
      Khmelnitsky's uprising was organized ... by the king of Poland, Vladislav. With money from the dowry of his French wife. The goal is to raise the people, pat the presumptuous magnates, and then TOGETHER hit the Turks in the area of ​​present-day Moldova.
      But the king is dying, and the rebellion is already in full swing.
      Hence, there are some "oddities" in the relationship between Khmelnitsky and the Poles.
      By the way, Khmelnitsky was supposed to lead the corps, which, at the request of Mazarin, was sent to the French to fight the Spaniards.
      But for the above reason, Khmelnytsky remained, and the corps was headed by Ivan Sirko.
      1. Avior
        Avior 31 March 2021 18: 45
        0
        - A forgotten fact - Susanin was killed not by the Poles, but by the Zaporozhye Cossacks.

        so forgotten that even Tsar Michael, six years after the events, was no longer in the know.
        ... how we, the Great Sovereign, the Tsar and Grand Duke Mikhailo Fedorovich of All Russia, were in Kostroma in the past 121 (1613) year, and at that time Polish and Lithuanian people came to the Kostroma district, and his father-in-law, Bogdashkov, Ivan Susanin in At that time, the Lithuanian people seized and tortured him with great, immeasurable tortures and tortured him where at that time we, the great sovereign, the tsar and the grand duke Mikhailo Fedorovich of all Russia were, and he Ivan, knowing about us, the great sovereign, where we were in those There were times when, enduring immeasurable torture from those Polish and Lithuanian people, about us, the great sovereign, to those Polish and Lithuanian people where we were at that time, he did not say, but the Polish and Lithuanian people tortured him to death ...

        And you all learned and brought everyone to clean watersmile
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk April 1 2021 18: 27
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          And you all learned and brought everyone to clean water

          The author not only brought this to clean water. He told us one more (in fact, not one) story. Here he writes -
          = In 1132, Ancient Russia disintegrated completely. But, again, looking for something national here is stupid. =
          Surely. Russia was, there were no Russians. Russia was inhabited by everyone except the Russians. "Historians" settled many in Russia: Polyans, Drevlyans, Dregovichi .., I will not list all, except for the Russians. They erected a high fence between these "tribes" and they did not contact each other in any way. Based on this logic, Russians do not exist even now. Show me a city, region, area called Rus. Here there are Kostroma, Muscovites, again, there are both Smolensk and Pskov. But there are no Russians. And there never was! laughing
          = Talks about nations in relation to the inhabitants of Smolensk or Kolomna are drawn only to delirium. The people understood it =
          Well, of course. The people understood that they were Russians. But the author is not aware of this.
          And where is the irrefutable evidence that Oleg is a Norman? And who said that Norman, Viking and Varangian are one and the same?
          Asking questions to the author is stupid. He still does not know the answer to any of them. And all the same - he writes "historical" opuses.
    3. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin April 1 2021 09: 44
      0
      Because in ancient times such a gradation existed. For example, among the Byzantine Greeks (it would be more correct to write - the Romans), from whom we adopted not only the faith, but also much more, Greece itself was called Little Hellas, and Great Hellas was the place of the subsequent settlement of the Hellenes. Therefore, Little Russia is the historical heart of Russia (which is what the author had in mind), and Great Russia is the place of the subsequent resettlement of the Russians, who left to the north from the princely strife and raids of nomads. That's all right.
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 31 March 2021 04: 27
    +2
    Odessa, Nikolaev, Kherson, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, Donetsk and Kharkov regions must be returned, and all the stubborn non-brothers must be taken to the rest, let them marinate there.
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 31 March 2021 04: 41
      +21
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Odessa, Nikolaev, Kherson, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, Donetsk and Kharkov regions must be returned


      And the ancient, chronicle Russian Chernigov, once the capital of the most powerful principality, which included our Starodub, Vshizh, Bryansk, Kursk, Rylsk, Trubchevsk, Karachev, the legendary "evil city" Kozelsk, do not need to return?

      Yes, in Little Russia in general, wherever you stick it - everything is ours, though beaten out of the hands, but ours ...
      1. FIR FIR
        FIR FIR 31 March 2021 10: 12
        -3
        Lviv, Volyn and Rivne regions - to the Ukrainians, everything else should be part of Russia.
    2. apro
      apro 31 March 2021 04: 58
      +6
      Quote: Pessimist22
      stoned non-brothers

      Until there is any sense in joint economic activity, all these are good wishes.
    3. wkat
      wkat 31 March 2021 12: 00
      -9
      Old Russian imperialism, to seize everything "ours"
      1. AK1972
        AK1972 31 March 2021 12: 37
        +8
        Eternal Polish arrogance: "Polish from Mozha to Mozha."
        1. wkat
          wkat 31 March 2021 13: 14
          -6
          What is possible for one, it is possible for another
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 31 March 2021 16: 27
            +6
            This is how anyone. Someone's navel may come loose. hi
  3. Cowbra
    Cowbra 31 March 2021 04: 54
    +2
    Hetmans and candidates for hetmans called on anyone,

    but the peasants and townspeople did not have it.

    ?
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 31 March 2021 05: 34
      +5
      Quote: Cowbra
      ?


      Yes, QUESTIONS yes
  4. Cowbra
    Cowbra 31 March 2021 04: 55
    +2
    Hetman candidates
  5. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 31 March 2021 04: 56
    +1
    Forgotten fact - Susanin was killed not by the Poles, but by the Zaporozhye Cossacks ...
    belay
    A rotten fact ... the author is more careful to pass off the Polish-Lithuanian detachment for the Zaporozhye Cossacks.
    An article to put it mildly with a smell.
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 31 March 2021 05: 06
      +13
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      An article to put it mildly with a smell.

      To be continued ...
      Author:
      Roman Ivanov


      The author, Roman Ivanov - is it worth writing (publishing) a sequel?
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 31 March 2021 05: 32
      +1
      Quote: Lech from Android.

      A rotten fact ... the author is more careful to pass off the Polish-Lithuanian detachment for the Zaporozhye Cossacks.
      An article to put it mildly with a smell.

      Forest forest forest
      In the middle of the Forest stands Ivan Susanin
      Polish Gadina asks:
      - Where is Moscow?
      - I don't know, said Ivan Susanin
      Ivan Susanin is the Great Russian Hero
      1. novel66
        novel66 31 March 2021 08: 18
        +4
        Where did you take us, Susanin - the hero?
        go fuck you. I myself am here for the first time
        always surprised - a rather big detachment passed. trampled, broke branches and bushes - but could not follow his tracks, rare morons fought with us
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 31 March 2021 08: 50
          -4
          - Let's cut off Susan's leg!
          - Don't, don't, I remembered the road!
          But the legend is beautiful - life for the king))
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 31 March 2021 14: 52
            -1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            - Let's cut off Susan's leg!
            - Don't, don't, I remembered the road!
            But the legend is beautiful - life for the king))
            Wise Moses, for forty years he led the Jews in the desert and there is nothing repeat ! Everyone believes! laughing
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 31 March 2021 17: 52
              -2
              Well, yes - Judeo, Christians, Muslims
            2. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 31 March 2021 19: 21
              +1
              I do not argue!
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 March 2021 23: 16
                0
                Freedom country fellow
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Cowbra
      Cowbra 31 March 2021 08: 44
      +2
      No, exactly what, hello.
  6. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 31 March 2021 05: 26
    -2
    Forgotten fact - Susanin was killed not by the Poles, but by the Zaporozhye Cossacks
    ----
    According to Solovyov and Pogodin

    Susanin's suffering is an incident in itself very common at that time. Then the Cossacks roamed the villages and burned and tortured the peasants. It could be that the robbers who attacked Susanin were the same kind of thieves, and the event, so loudly glorified later, was one of many that year. After some time, Susanin's son-in-law took advantage of it and begged for a letter to himself.

    - Kostomarov N.I. Ivan Susanin / Russian history in the biographies of its leaders
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 31 March 2021 05: 40
      +4
      According to the version ... Maybe ...
      smile What a kindergarten ... pass it off as a fact. hi
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 31 March 2021 05: 41
        -3
        Well, yes, although Susanin has long been a character of jokes)).
        Feat (semi-official) - he gave his life for the first Romanov.
        In fact - yes, fig knows him request
        Who exactly killed him - even if the Cossacks were on the Polish side.
        1. Sofa batyr
          Sofa batyr 31 March 2021 05: 49
          +11
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Well, yes, although Susanin has long been a character of jokes)).

          The character of the Bible, Moses, who led Jews across the desert for 40 years, also appears in anecdotes.
          But who said that the compilers of these anecdotes are smart people?

          While laughing, think at least sometimes what you are laughing at ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 31 March 2021 06: 17
            +10
            Moses took Jews around the Middle East for 40 years - and it smelled bad everywhere - the pungent smell of kerosene. ...
            Finally he found a place where there was no smell and the Jews settled there.
            As a result, all the peoples of the Middle East have oil, and the Jews smell good. fellow
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 31 March 2021 08: 27
              +5
              Did you have to get out without oil, which affected your character?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 March 2021 08: 52
                -1
                Quote: Korsar4
                Did you have to get out without oil, which affected your character?

                Well, glory to Gd. Now, even if it is found, it will be spent on social services, as well as on expensive medical and military toys, and not as "money for life."
    2. Cowbra
      Cowbra 31 March 2021 08: 50
      -1
      The fact of the matter is that the author is right, and they just know it ... Get out there, not your cart
  7. svp67
    svp67 31 March 2021 05: 33
    +8
    In ancient times, "ukraina" had the meaning of "borderland" ... This is also in dictionaries, both Russian and Polish.
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 March 2021 07: 05
      -4
      Quote: svp67
      In ancient times, "ukraina" had the meaning of "borderland" ... This is also in dictionaries, both Russian and Polish.

      This is how it was and once the Ukrainians as an ethnic group did not exist, but now the Ukrainians consider themselves to be a separate people. They have their own language, their own writing, their own folklore and their own culture. To argue that now such a people does not exist is simply stupid.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 31 March 2021 08: 54
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: svp67
        In ancient times, "ukraina" had the meaning of "borderland" ... This is also in dictionaries, both Russian and Polish.

        This is how it was and once the Ukrainians as an ethnic group did not exist, but now the Ukrainians consider themselves to be a separate people. They have their own language, their own writing, their own folklore and their own culture. To argue that now such a people does not exist is simply stupid.

        So the Falastin people exist - since the beginning of the 1950s, they have been an original people, with their own dialect of Arabic, their own cuisine and mentality)).
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 March 2021 09: 40
          -9
          Quote: Krasnodar
          So the Falastin people exist - since the beginning of the 1950s, they have been an original people, with their own dialect of Arabic, their own cuisine and mentality)).

          Fylystyntsev was invented in 1964. They do not have their own cuisine, language, writing and culture. The dialect of the Arabs from Gaza and Judea and Samaria (or whatever they slavishly) differ very little from other Arabs. It's like Muscovites and Petrograd residents. The Fylystynians will exist for 400 years then and we will call them "Shabl Fylystyny" (the Palestinian people). hi
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 31 March 2021 09: 48
            0
            Le.
            They began to form after the war of independence from refugees in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan. The cuisine is its own - labane im zatar, hummus-ful-minced mutton, lafa with falafel and chicken inside.
            Dialect - Kataib (Phalangist Christians) in Lebanon in the 70s, they were distinguished as follows:
            - Say Pandora (tomato)
            If Bandora spoke (the Palestinian Arabs do not pronounce the letter P), it means a falotny. During the Civil War, they could disembark from a minibus and bang
            Guys from Gaza have Masri language closer to Egyptian
            For people from Samaria - closer to the Syrian
            In Judea, each village has its own dialect
            And so I agree - we are the Palestinians.
            1. Professor
              Professor 31 March 2021 10: 19
              -6
              Nat.
              The first mention of fylystyntsi dates back to 1964. They could begin to form even in the Paleolithic period.
              The cuisine you listed is regular Arabic cuisine.
              Arabs' dialects are like Russians. Even I can distinguish the Kuban from the Novgorod or Muscovites. However, this does not make them an individual nation. Yes, and we Tel Aviv speak with a dialect. Forgot? wink

              PS
              I ask you not to distort the self-name "fylystyn". Show due respect for the Arab striving to wrest another territory from the Jews.
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 31 March 2021 11: 02
                +4
                Quote: Professor
                However, this does not make them an individual nation. Yes, and we Tel Aviv speak with a dialect. Forgot?

                Well, if the Ukrainians were made a separate nation, then why not make the Falestinians a separate nation as well. Of course, this is not beneficial for Israel, but such a people already exists, and this is a fact.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 31 March 2021 11: 46
                  -7
                  Quote: tihonmarine
                  Well, if the Ukrainians were made a separate nation, then why not make the Falestinians a separate nation as well.

                  No problem. Its own "church", its alphabet, its language, its own culture and voila. fellow They have their own people. So after 400 years. But for now it's just Arabs like the Syrians or Egyptians.

                  Quote: tihonmarine
                  Of course, this is not beneficial for Israel, but such a people already exists, and this is a fact.

                  Israel doesn't care. And this is not at all a fact. They do not have a single attribute of the people. Not yet. In 400 years, it may not be a fact.
                  By the way, even the leaders of Hamas claim that they are just Arabs and that there is no Phylist people.
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 31 March 2021 15: 11
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    Its own "church", its alphabet, its language, its own culture and voilayayayay. They have their own people.

                    The old Orthodox Church has gone into oblivion, the Austrians have shifted the old Mova in their own way, the culture, if anything, remains of it. Everything is the same as with the Falestinians.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 31 March 2021 17: 32
                      -2
                      Quote: tihonmarine
                      Quote: Professor
                      Its own "church", its alphabet, its language, its own culture and voilayayayay. They have their own people.

                      The old Orthodox Church has gone into oblivion, the Austrians have shifted the old Mova in their own way, the culture, if anything, remains of it. Everything is the same as with the Falestinians.

                      No. Fylysryntsi are not translated to other Arabs. The same language.
                      The religion of the Phylystites is no different from the Egyptians.
                      Let's wait 400 years and call the Fylysty people a people.
                      1. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 31 March 2021 20: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        Let's wait 400 years and call the Fylysty people a people.

                        Well, you are a Professor, it’s painfully long decided to live.
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 31 March 2021 17: 47
                -2
                In 1964, the PLO arose, but there were already refugee camps outside Eretz Yisrael, and the Arabs already distinguished them from the rest of their fellow tribesmen - although you are right, the Kubans can also theoretically be distinguished from Muscovites, for example.
                The kitchen is not really. Already the Egyptians have a different one.
                Tel Aviv - I myself was Tel Aviv. From what schooner in Tel Aviv is also a question)).
                I quote the name of the Greek - Arabic, from the words Phalos, paying respect to the indigenous people of Gaza - the Felisimlianai, who came from Crete and Tnyn - two in Arabic. Judea and Samaria are two fellow
                1. Professor
                  Professor 31 March 2021 19: 41
                  -4
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  In 1964, the PLO arose, but there were already refugee camps outside Eretz Yisrael, and the Arabs already distinguished them from the rest of their fellow tribesmen - although you are right, the Kubans can also theoretically be distinguished from Muscovites, for example.

                  There were camps for "refugees", but no one even thought to call them fylystyntsi. Daddy Asad to the last asserted that the Phylistians from Judea and Samaria (or whatever they say in Arabic) were Syrians, although he did not give citizenship to any of them.

                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Tel Aviv - I myself was Tel Aviv. From what schooner in Tel Aviv is also a question)).

                  Northern, only northern. The rest are amha. wink

                  Fylystyntsy in one word. Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. wassat
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 31 March 2021 20: 17
                    -1
                    Quote: Professor
                    Fylystyntsy in one word. Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

                    Well, no offense is said, and you, too, will not miss yours.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 31 March 2021 20: 32
                      -4
                      Quote: tihonmarine
                      Quote: Professor
                      Fylystyntsy in one word. Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

                      Well, no offense is said, and you, too, will not miss yours.

                      That's it. We do not miss, but Fylystyntsi Never miss an opportunity to lose an opportunity.
                      1. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine April 1 2021 09: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: Professor
                        That's it. We do not miss, and Fylystyntsi will never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

                        Well, the Phalestins, the same Jews, only of the Muslim faith.
                  2. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 31 March 2021 20: 52
                    -2
                    On the Arab street they were already called Falistinyun, about the official ideology of the Syrians - everything is very neglected there. Anti-colonialism mixed with dreams of Greater Syria and National Socialism. Citizenship was given to them only by the Jordanians, for which they almost paid in the early 70s.
                    And what are the northerners? Russians / locals? And which north? Old or Ramat Aviv? In Ramat Aviv, except for Gimel, the nouveau riche from Bat Yam and Tikva (and in Gimel already too) to the figs. )))
                    There, for a long time, everything has been divided according to housing prices;
                    As for the Falotnyns, I agree. Always a great choice - in WWII for Hitler, after - against the partition of Palestine, in the 90s during the kipish with Kuwait - for Sadam laughing
                2. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 31 March 2021 20: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  The kitchen is not really. Already the Egyptians have a different one.

                  Now in Moscow you will not find Russian cuisine without fire.
                  And you will not find such a kitchen like my neighbor in a communal apartment, aunt Khesya did, in all of Israel.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 31 March 2021 20: 55
                    0
                    I recommend Moscow restaurants of Russian cuisine:
                    Russian Hunting
                    Royal Hunt
                    Cafe Pushkin
                    1. tihonmarine
                      tihonmarine April 1 2021 10: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      I recommend Moscow restaurants of Russian cuisine:

                      So these are restaurants, but for ordinary Russian people, "skorozharalka" with European dregs. Until recently, in Kaliningrad, near the German market, there was a snack bar "Russian cuisine", as well as pickled mushrooms and cucumbers, dumplings, potato pancakes, sour fish and even rye bread with homemade baked goods.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 1 2021 10: 23
                        +2
                        Well, there are different dumplings, Mu-mu, I think, still works (herring under a fur coat, jellied meat, cabbage soup), and a lot of other things ...))
                      2. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine April 1 2021 10: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Mu-mu, I think, is still working (herring under a fur coat, jellied meat, cabbage soup), and a lot of other things ...))

                        It's high time to switch to healthy Russian cuisine instead of Western plastics.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 1 2021 10: 49
                        0
                        How healthy is she? laughing
                        Shchi - cabbage with a high content of vinegar and salt in the basis of the soup.
                        Borscht with sour cream - you mix milk with meat, which is full of trash for the intestines and stomach.
                        Pies with potatoes and mushrooms - carbon impact))
                        Pickles - lots of salt and preservatives (natural; but still)
                        Herring under a fur coat - salted fish with preservatives, potatoes and mayonnaise
                        Olivier - salad with pickles and sausage - processed meat that raises the risk of cancer more than smoking
                        Potatoes and cutlets fried in sunflower oil are a pure carcinogen
                        Etc.
                        No healthier than McDonald's
                        Mediterranean cuisine is yes. Fish, olive oil, durum flour spaghetti, fresh vegetables, herbs.
                        Truly healthy food.
                        You can alternate with Japanese - sushi, rice, seafood
                        And the North European ones - in figs, figs
                      4. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine April 1 2021 10: 58
                        +2
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Mediterranean cuisine is yes. Fish, olive oil, durum flour spaghetti, fresh vegetables, herbs.
                        Truly healthy food.

                        You can't argue against this cuisine, as well as against the Arab one. Although not for everyone, but I also like Korean and Chinese (I have lived with them since childhood).
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 06
                        +1
                        Korean is spicy. Chinese - oh, we forget that "Chinese" is a general term that unites a bunch of peoples with very different cuisines, often completely unhealthy and not always tasty))
                        Arabic - generally healthy and tasty
                      6. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 20
                        +2
                        Quote: Krasnodar

                        0
                        Korean is spicy. Chinese - oh, we forget that "Chinese" is a general term that brings together a bunch of peoples

                        Korean is very spicy, it can only be eaten by those who are accustomed from childhood. In Iskanderia, at the Amon Ra hotel, the owner of the restaurant is Korean, we were frequent guests there, but not everyone could eat everything that goes with a meat or fish dish. It is better for a European person not to try Chinese cuisine.
                        But for me, one of the best cuisines, as I wrote, was the neighbor's aunt Khesi, who was born in the 19th century in St. Petersburg. She had Jewish, Russian and even Caucasian cuisine, but everything was in moderation, as it should be for the cook of some very rich, or well-born St. Petersburg gentleman.
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 27
                        +2
                        There are many Korean eateries in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk. Halibut soup is wonderful. Sharp, of course. But rice sticks well.
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        There are many Korean eateries in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk. Halibut soup is wonderful. Sharp, of course. But rice sticks well.

                        But vodka does not go under it, but flies laughing
                      9. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 38
                        +2
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        But vodka does not go under it, but flies

                        Vodka always flies well under a good snack, and it's not bad under a piece of crust, and if this is not the case, then they ate "chicken" and nothing.
                      10. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 20
                        0
                        So under the spicy, in general, the most tsimes))
                      11. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine April 1 2021 14: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        So under the spicy, in general, the most tsimes))

                        And it is good for spicy, but for a well-cooked minced meat, for a sweet soul.
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 57
                    +2
                    Yes. I agree with Professor Preobrazhensky about spicy snacks.
              3. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 28
                0
                Ashkenazi cuisine is quite sophisticated - if we are talking about Romanian, Hungarian, South Ukrainian and Bessarabian Jews.
                Litvaki, Belarusians, Polish - already for an amateur
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 30
              +2
              It feels like the Chinese eat everything. I didn’t have enough dairy products. Any diving beetle in sunflower oil will go with beer.
              But plain pork is better.
            3. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 32
              +1
              Neither rushu has been to China
              They say that street food is better not even to try
            4. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 46
              +2
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Neither rushu has been to China

              There are now a lot of buffet-style cafes in the Canaries with a cost of 7-8 euros (no alcohol). Cheap food, with a commensurate quality. They often used it (but you need to choose your own cafe).
            5. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 20
              0
              And not only in the Canaries)).
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 58
            +2
            Exotic only. And what is under the roof is quite interesting and varied.
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 41
          +2
          Quote: Korsar4
          It feels like the Chinese eat everything.

          Well, we will not eat pickled locusts and stewed worms, but for them it is cimus. Although the rich Chinese did not eat and do not eat this. But I ate the oil in a barrel, buried in the ground for 5 years, with pleasure, as well as fish glue.
        3. Korsar4
          Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 59
          +2
          "The cat died from curiosity." I tried silkworms and swimmers. If there is a question of survival, barbel larvae contain a lot of protein.
        4. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 21
          +1
          I dream of trying normally cooked insects.
        5. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine April 1 2021 14: 08
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          I dream of trying normally cooked insects.

          Well, you need to go to China, or take a ride to Indonesia.
        6. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 1 2021 14: 46
          0
          I still dream of a free month, after the pandemic, when the whole family with slightly grown children can go to Hong Kong, from there to Australia and New Zealand sad
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 1 2021 14: 09
        +2
        At least in Heihe they did it on an ongoing basis.
  8. clerk
    clerk April 1 2021 11: 06
    +4
    ... Borscht with sour cream - you mix milk with meat, which is full of trash for the intestines and stomach
    ... A Jew does not need a simple apartment: a Jew needs an apartment to live without blemish, an apartment in which there are two different toilets: one for meat, the other for dairy. (WITH) laughing
  9. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 19
    +1
    Three toilets. The third - for pork lol
  10. clerk
    clerk April 1 2021 11: 26
    +2
    ... Three toilets. The third - for pork
    Throwing all prejudices away,
    But so that from G-d in secret,
    Sage Joseph eats pork
    And loudly praises this fish. (WITH)
  11. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 31
    0
    Is this Brodsky? ))
    Or Huber?
  12. clerk
    clerk April 1 2021 11: 52
    +2
    Moderation does not skip the last name - too short laughing
  13. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 21
    0
    So - Katz
    Or something else for three letters? laughing
  14. clerk
    clerk April 1 2021 12: 25
    +2
    She didn't even miss Guberman. Anti-Semitism, not otherwise ... laughing
  15. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 41
    0
    No
    Anti-Zionism lol
  16. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine April 1 2021 16: 12
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Three toilets. The third - for pork

    And there will be only one room left.
  17. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 30
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Herring under a fur coat - salted fish with preservatives, potatoes and mayonnaise

    Therefore, you need to salt the herring yourself, and not in brine, but with dry salting, salt by eye, as you always pour. That would be "malosol" (not for storage for more than a week). And make mayonnaise homemade, but I prefer sour cream (not a fermented milk product). And in no case do not use the idiotic "rossier"
  18. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 36
    0
    I agree - just in the quantities that go to the "fur coat", this is very unhealthy
  19. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 54
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    I agree - just in the quantities that go to the "fur coat", this is very unhealthy

    Everything should be in moderation, everyone does it for himself. You can't overdo anything, you can't even drink water a liter at a time. Everything should be in moderation, then you can feel the taste and see the beauty of the dish (although with vodka it is not always done in moderation).
  20. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 25
    +2
    Works. But the "Yolki-Sticks" have not survived.
  21. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 11: 29
    +2
    Christmas tree sticks like it was
  22. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 1 2021 11: 55
    +2
    Not really. There were quite good buffets called "The Cart".
  23. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 24
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    Not really. There were quite good buffets called "The Cart".

    I was there once - I ate jellied meat and boiled potatoes I don't remember with which meat)))
  24. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 1 2021 14: 10
    +1
    There was always jellied meat, mushrooms, cereals, vinaigrette, etc.
  25. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine April 1 2021 11: 56
    +2
    Quote: Korsar4
    But the "Yolki-Sticks" have not survived.

    And the "Blue Danube" has not survived either.
  26. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 1 2021 12: 02
    +3
    Only once was. In the early 90s (if not confused).

    But "Taras Bulba" occupies its own niche.
  27. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 1 2021 12: 25
    +1
    I wanted to visit everything, by the way))
  28. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 1 2021 14: 11
    +2
    Sometimes, when guests from different places gather, I find myself there.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 31 March 2021 06: 31
    +4
    This topic, discussed for more than 4 years on the website 2014, started again on a new one. And the article is not worth discussing. It is written in the style: So, so Caesar was killed, but his workmates remained
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 31 March 2021 07: 36
    +13
    It seems that the VO history site itself has declared a real war. The Samsonovs, Frolovs, Ivanovs, Verkhoturovs and the Apukhtins who joined them regularly give out cryptohistorical and quasihistorical versions of the past to the mountain, boldly rearranging the history of the world in their own way.
    1. Liam
      Liam 31 March 2021 07: 45
      +3
      If only stories ..
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 31 March 2021 08: 29
      +3
      I wonder how long it took to be composed?
      Could a serious historian tell an elegant historical anecdote in half an hour?
      I think yes. But for this it is important to understand the issue properly.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 31 March 2021 08: 56
        +2
        Graceful historical anecdotes are not in the spirit of the times.
        Now the trend is a primitive historical outline.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 31 March 2021 09: 08
          +3
          “And the fact that the spirit of the time is called
          There is a spirit of professors and their concepts,
          Which these gentlemen are inappropriately
          They give out for true antiquity ”(c).
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 31 March 2021 07: 59
    +7
    A solid primitive, dear author, everything was much more complicated than you write. To me the History section resembles one of the series of the animated series "Smeshariki", where they write history and each in his own way.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 31 March 2021 09: 31
    +9
    We have two news. The good news is that Romanov left the history of the fleet alone for a while. The bad thing is that he took up history in general ...
  • Kushka
    Kushka 31 March 2021 11: 45
    -2
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: svp67
    In ancient times, "ukraina" had the meaning of "borderland" ... This is also in dictionaries, both Russian and Polish.

    This is how it was and once the Ukrainians as an ethnic group did not exist, but now the Ukrainians consider themselves to be a separate people. They have their own language, their own writing, their own folklore and their own culture. To argue that now such a people does not exist is simply stupid.


    So the Falastians exist - since the beginning of the 1950s, they have been an original people, with their own dialect of Arabic, their own cuisine and mentality. )).

    Well, why is it so cool to leave aside,
    all the way to the Middle East (and from the topic of the article, by the way)
    Let's better but father Lukashenka declare that
    there is no and there was no Belarus, no and never was
    no Belarusian people.
    We’ll hear enough.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 31 March 2021 13: 02
    0
    Money for the fish again. Rurik is a Varangian from Pomerania (the then Slavic Vagria), and not a Viking (the latter is not a clan-tribe at all, but a thug from a "Vick" - the village of wild weapon men), and not a Norman. The relationship between the Varangians (North-Western Slavs) and Vikings / (from among the Normans / Sveev / Dan) has always been on the principle of "cop not Kent". Rurik is a representative of a princely family from a completely civilized Slavic state with cities and villages, and "Vikings" are sea robbers by occupation.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 31 March 2021 15: 22
    0
    In that glorious era, whoever has a weapon is the main one,

    It seems that this is still true.
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 31 March 2021 16: 11
    +1
    Then the Ukrainian question was born in the modern sense
    It would be interesting to find out from the author how a question in the modern sense could arise several hundred years ago?
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 31 March 2021 16: 33
    0
    Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
    To me the History section reminds one of the series of the animated series "Smeshariki", where they write history and each in its own way.

    And so the whole story is written. and we (historians and not historians) either believe in it or not.
  • Scorpion85
    Scorpion85 31 March 2021 17: 26
    -5
    Petersburg is a baby city, Moscow is an adult, Kiev is an old man whose age is eternity. "(Honore de Balzac" Letter about Kiev "1847). Therefore, to tell that Moscow should turn Kiev, and not Kiev - Moscow is more than stupid, given the fact that Moscow appeared much later than Kiev.I understand, it is unpleasant for the citizens of Russia to realize that the center of Russia was Kiev, and today's Ukraine, like the Ukrainian people, whatever one may say, but in fact are the legal successors of Russia, who likes it Many will write that they say there was no such country as Ukraine, and there was no such country as Russia either, Ukrainians live on the lands of their ancestors, but what relation to them is, for example, a Petersburger or a Muscovite or Tver resident, most of which have never been to Ukraine, does not know these lands, local residents, but they say that these are their lands, on what basis?
    1. mister-red
      mister-red 31 March 2021 22: 27
      +7
      Petersburg is a baby city, Moscow is an adult, Kiev is an old man whose age is eternity. "

      Balzac is forgivable, he did not know everything, but you do not - Novgorod is a city about the same age as Kiev and Russia went from there. And the first capital in general is Ladoga. Rurik has never been to Kiev, Oleg was an invader for the Polyans (Kiev was, after all, a city of Polyans), just like your other national heroes, like Prince Vladimir, Yaroslav the Wise, Princess Olga, etc. Olga in general, besides being the wife of the occupier Igor, is also a Pskovite. And the genocide of your ancestors is cool, remember about the Drevlyans? You choose strange heroes for yourself.
      In general, everything is much simpler than your conclusions. After Kiev fell in 1240, the ancestors of today's Ukrainians and Belarusians lost their independence forever, with the exception of the Galicia-Volyn principality. By the way, the last prince of Kiev was Alexander Nevsky - you still haven't referred him to the Ukrainians? Well, think with your head, what kind of "legal successors of Russia", if there was no state, there were no princes. Can you name whom?
      And what does Moscow have to do with it, if after Kiev Vladimir became the grand princely throne? And this happened even before the devastation of Kiev by the Mongols, at the end of the 12th century. And Vladimir was founded by the Grand Duke Vladimir 150 years earlier than Moscow. Moscow simply won the rivalry for the title of the Great Prince's throne. And it could have lost. And the city was founded by the Grand Duke of Kiev Yuri Dolgoruky. By the way, whether he is ukrian or not, it’s somehow incomprehensible who you count as ukrian and who is not.
      Let's summarize. As part of the Russian people, of course, you have every right to the history of ancient Russia. As Ukrainians, your first state (by the way, not one, but several at once) was not long in the civil war and then only from 1991.

      PS By the way, I'm from Moldova. We have had a state since the end of the 14th century, as can be seen from the numerous maps where Moldova is present, as well as from the numerous surviving documents, including diplomatic correspondence with other countries. Can you give a link to some sources of such a plan, where Ukraine would appear? It would be interesting to see.
      PSS In general, you have been brainwashed for 30 years, just tin. Every time I am convinced that you have a sick country and only surgery can help.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 April 1 2021 14: 32
        0
        If we assume that Novgorod is inseparable from Slovensk on the river. Muddy, then this is "Scythian and Slaven". Kiev-city for antiquity was not there nearby. I am of the opinion that Kiev was a small city on the outskirts of the area of ​​the tribal union of the Drevlyans, which at the peak of the expansion was conquered by the Khazars, and included in the territory of the Polyan tributaries of the Khaganate as a north-western outpost of Khazaria and a trading post. What is hail? - These are in fact several buildings, surrounded by a palisade, in which the mythological Kiy with his family and close relatives could well have been located. There was a hail of Kiya, Kuyaba became a trading post, captured by Askold. The new city is not originally a family nest, but a communal settlement, which has a metropolis - the Star City.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 April 1 2021 10: 46
      +1
      What ancestors? After Batu, all of Southern Russia was empty. Read eyewitness accounts. There was no longer a Slavic population there. Some went to the north, who were driven into slavery, who were massacred. It is not for nothing that Ukrainian folk memory knows absolutely nothing about the times of Kievan Rus. In contrast to the North .. Noneshnee population is either the descendants of the Turkic inhabitants, or the Russians who moved there back under Catherine. Look at the classic type of Ukrainians, sung in songs - black-eyed, black-browed, black-haired .. Where is the Slavism here ?? They look much more like the Turks ..
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 April 1 2021 13: 12
        0
        As Vitya-Twilight said, "you don't need to load everything on Batu"! Only the bloody assault on Kiev and the defeat of Chernigov were recorded, the rest of the territory of the then southwestern Russia was not marked by any large-scale pogroms. Zalesskaya Rus, even in the concept of the Karamzin OI, underwent a much greater defeat and the hostilities were much more intense and fierce. From Ryazan to Torzhok. So there is no reason to say that the "Mongols" somehow significantly thinned the population of the Vesyi on the territory of modern Ukraine. Regular Polovtsian raids in an earlier period caused much more tangible damage to the population - there the slave trade was put on stream, and from both sides.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 April 1 2021 13: 21
          0
          We carefully read Plano Carpini and Robruk .. And the archeological data show the same - the population has practically disappeared. As for Zalesskaya Rus - everything was easier there, because the land is deeply wooded and in winter - what the hell you can catch there. Cities - yes, they got it, the rural population quite successfully sniffed. At least in subsequent years, it says nothing about the massive depopulation of the territory. On the contrary, the flourishing of the northern principalities begins. In South Russia - in this regard, it was significantly worse. For the terrain is much more accessible for the horse detachments of the steppe dwellers. Here the surviving people rushed to the North. Bringing in itself the epics of the Kiev times.
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 April 1 2021 14: 16
            0
            "As for Zalesskaya Rus - everything was easier there, because the land is deeply wooded and in winter - what the hell you can catch there." - Here the grandmother said in two. In winter, you will survive in the forest with uncaught horseradish. And besides, even the official historical concept is of the opinion that the "Mongols" needed tributaries, and not a territory with corpses. Yes, Kiev has become ashes, but this is just a piece of territory. The same Daniel Galitsky felt quite at ease, and even impudent, despite the "sword of Damocles" of the Horde. Until Nogai was still oh, how far away. Here other factors must be sought. From "plague plagues" to boyar squabbles and princely strife, coupled with the subsequent "polonization" because of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which stupidly bought into union with Polish Catholics.
          2. andrew42
            andrew42 April 1 2021 14: 19
            0
            Plano Carpini and Robruk - there is no trust to these gentlemen from the word at all. The guys worked in the interests of the customer from the third side.
    3. clerk
      clerk April 1 2021 11: 09
      +1
      Moscow is an adult, Kiev is an old man whose age is eternity. "(Honore de Balzac, Letter about Kiev, 1847). Therefore, it is more than stupid to talk about how Moscow should turn Kiev, and not Kiev - Moscow.
      Why is it stupid? Twirls the one who has something to twirl (the other). The elder of Kiev has not had this for a long time, but the adult of Moscow has it. So she turns Kiev. Everything is logical.
  • S. Talin
    S. Talin April 1 2021 08: 51
    0
    So it turns out that while the Slavs are suing, dressing up, and the Chukchi have existed forever, even anecdotes about them are three thousand years old this year.
  • GEOID
    GEOID April 2 2021 04: 02
    0
    Why do they write Ancient Rus?
    The school taught at that time was only one Rus - Kiev.
    Can't you name it-Novgorod Rus?
    This is written in order to subconsciously separate concepts.
    Russia and Kiev?
    And for some reason a monument to Vladimir the Baptist was erected in Moscow.
    When the baptism took place, Moscow did not exist yet.
    Illogical.
    1. mister-red
      mister-red April 2 2021 09: 47
      +1
      Quote: GEOID
      Why do they write Ancient Rus?
      The school taught at that time was only one Rus - Kiev

      And in Soviet times, many things were kept silent and treated. For example, Khatyn was burned not by the Germans, but by the Ukrainian nationalists, led by a certain Vasiura.
      In fact, of course, there was no Kievan Rus, just Rus. So return to normal history, no more

      And for some reason a monument to Vladimir the Baptist was erected in Moscow.
      When the baptism took place, Moscow did not exist yet.
      Illogical.

      And where would you like the Russian government to erect a monument to Vladimir the Baptist? In Kiev? So it can still be)
  • Alexander Betonkin
    Alexander Betonkin April 3 2021 00: 27
    0
    Map of the generalized genetic landscape of the Eastern and Western Slavs by haplogroups of the Y-chromosome (male line) from the book of geneticist Oleg Balanovsky "The Gene Pool of Europe". Constructed as an average of 9 maps of genetic distances: from Belarusians, Belarusians of Polesie, Kashubians, Poles, Central-South Russians, Slovaks, Sorbs, Ukrainians, Czechs.
    к
  • All the details
    All the details April 8 2021 23: 27
    0
    For the uninitiated, this OPUS seems to be a deeply scientific study. And in fact, such nonsense and heresy ... I advise you not to leave anything of this nonsense in your head at all.
  • Tambov-there is god
    Tambov-there is god April 27 2021 22: 42
    0
    Here you are a woodpecker, along with your Normans. For ... Bali Scaligerians are ass-heads.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 9 May 2021 18: 40
    0
    It was with this card that it was necessary to work in 2014. What was lacking in spirit or something else.
  • aleks700
    aleks700 29 May 2021 12: 57
    0
    There were no Russians, but there were Ukrainians! Otherwise, who dug the black sea?)))