"Doubtful air superiority": Chinese media believe the US has turned the F-35 from a fighter into an attack aircraft or bomber

The Chinese media are discussing the situation that has developed around the program for the creation of 5th generation F-35 fighters in the United States. Recall that the Biden administration is trying to cut spending on this program, in connection with plans to overall optimize the expenditure side of the military budget. The reports of American generals say that instead of reducing the cost of operating F-35 fighters, there is an increase in these very costs, while military pilots continue to identify numerous flaws on the aircraft.

The Chinese edition of Sina discusses this situation, and notes the strangeness: why did the authorities in the United States and the American command start talking about problems with the program and the fighters themselves after the production of more than 600 such aircraft, as well as after a flight of about 400 thousand hours?

The Americans used the F-35 in combat missions, they are actively supplying them abroad, the flight time is hundreds of thousands of hours, and now they suddenly started talking about the need to reduce the costs of the program.

One can recall the crash of the F-35 in Japan, which remained virtually unexplored. The fact is that it is not beneficial for the United States or Japan to voice the real reasons for the plane's crash at sea, although an extensive investigation team was working. If we recognize the technical defect of the oxygen supply system for the pilot (as the experts initially assumed), then this will damage the manufacturer, because to this day no modernization of this system has been carried out. Pilots continue to complain about problems associated with a lack of oxygen while piloting. The Japanese are silent, firstly, so as not to "offend a strategic partner", and secondly, (if the accident occurred through the fault of the pilot) so as not to cast a shadow on the level of training of their military pilots.

The Chinese press notes that the US itself calls the F-35 "the best fighter in the world", while finally turning the plane from a fighter "into an attack aircraft or bomber." It is in this form that it is used in the Israeli Air Force (against objects on the territory of Syria). In addition, it is noted that for a number of reasons it is not used for interception - for financial reasons and because of "dubious air superiority."

From comments from Chinese readers:

In this regard, US officials are like Indian officials: they also have the best. It's fun.

Remark: as if in China itself in this regard, everything is different ...

Really. The over-emphasis on the fact that the F-35 is multipurpose has led to the fact that it can be effectively used against ground means, acting as an attack aircraft or bomber, but it has problems with the functions of a fighter. The F-35 already has clear air superiority problems.

The Chinese media notes that it is ineffective to use the expensive F-35 against ground targets, since today there are much cheaper aircraft for this - Drones.

Comments

[OgnennyiKotik]

The United States calls the F-35 "the best fighter in the world", while finally turning the plane from a fighter "into an attack aircraft or a bomber."

Uh ... F-35 was created under the Joint Strike Fighter program - a single strike fighter. As if it was his task initially, to strike at ground and sea targets in the face of anti-air defense. Conquering air superiority through group tactics.
As the saying goes: "your expectations are your problems."

[Insurgent]

Doubtful Air Superiority: the Chinese media believe that the United States turned the F-35 from a fighter into an attack aircraft or bomber

Well, don't throw it away ...

[abrakadabre]

Chinese media believe the US has turned the F-35 from a fighter into an attack aircraft or bomber

What do you mean turned? Initially, in terms of performance characteristics, it was not a fighter.

[paul3390]

Initially, in terms of performance characteristics, it was not a fighter.

To paraphrase an old joke:
How are the F-35 and the guinea pig similar? She, too, is not a guinea, and not a pig ..

[abrakadabre]

To paraphrase an old joke:
How are the F-35 and the guinea pig similar? She, too, is not a guinea, and not a pig ..

Exactly

[Proxima]

Make from an airplane effective fighter-bomber-attack aircraft IMPOSSIBLE! It's like an all-season rubber. It does not work normally in summer and in winter it is completely out.

[yehat2]

Quote: Proxima

It does not work normally in summer and in winter it is completely out.

the idea is that you can, at the very least, but drive constantly.
the problem begins when advertisements say you can ride well.

[Proxima]

Quote: yehat2

the idea is that you can at least keep driving all the time ..

The idea is that for people like you, I have highlighted the word "effective" in bold. The intentions of the designers and customers of the F-35 were not that this aircraft would at least work as a fighter, at the very least, it would work as an attack aircraft, and at the very least, it would work as a bomber.

[yehat2]

Quote: Proxima

for people like you

you have no idea about me to judge somehow
besides, you clearly lost sight of the fact that the Americans were going to compensate for the lack of performance characteristics of the aircraft with the quality of weapons and systems of location and guidance.
Since the days of the phantom, they have been rushing about with the idea of ​​just flying in and shooting rockets.
and the penguin is another iteration of the same idea.

[Proxima]

I did not offend YOU, if it seemed to you so. Anyway - sorry. For people like you are allocated bold, that is, for those who are not quite attentive.

[yehat2]

closer to the point.

[Magog_]

since the days of the phantom they have been running around with the idea

In support of the same idea, I quote from VO's note for October 2017.

Back in 2001, Lockheed Martin began developing F-35. As part of the Joint Strike Fighter program, it was intended to replace all the outdated fighter and attack aircraft models at once — the F-16 Fighting Falcon, A-10 Thunderbolt II, F / A-18 Hornet and AV-8B Harrier II. According to the plans of the Pentagon, Lightning II was supposed to be a cheaper and more technologically advanced alternative to the fifth-generation fighter F-22 Raptor.

And what happened - read this note and similar assessments ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: Insurgent

Doubtful Air Superiority: the Chinese media believe that the United States turned the F-35 from a fighter into an attack aircraft or bomber

Well, don't throw it away ...

Don't touch the "holy" and kosher. Right now you are here "professor" with his hexagonal gang-diaspora will be crushed by arguments for an unsurpassed pepelats

[Insurgent]

Quote: Piramidon

Right now you are here "professor" with his hex washer-watering can be crushed by arguments for the unsurpassed pepelats

Yes, let them press From their words, the F-35 will not get better ...

[K150]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

The United States calls the F-35 "the best fighter in the world", while finally turning the plane from a fighter "into an attack aircraft or a bomber."

Uh ... F-35 was created under the Joint Strike Fighter program - a single strike fighter. As if it was his task initially, to strike at ground and sea targets in the face of anti-air defense. Conquering air superiority through group tactics.
As the saying goes: "your expectations are your problems."

And nothing that a strike fighter does not mean "attack aircraft". The Chinese are writing to you about this, and they themselves have confirmed it.

[stone]

Uh ... F-35 was created under the Joint Strike Fighter program - a single strike fighter. As if it was his task initially, to strike at ground and sea targets in the face of anti-air defense. Conquering air superiority through group tactics.
As the saying goes: "your expectations are your problems."

I agree with you. The Chinese, or rather the Chinese media outlets referred to, were forgotten about this.

It is in this form that it is used in the Israeli Air Force.

This is the concept that the Israeli Air Force has been promoting for many years. This can be seen on the example of the evolution of the Israeli F-15, F-16 from the beginning of the 80s to the present time.

[figwam]

that using the expensive-to-operate F-35 against ground targets is ineffective

The Americans began to suspect that this was a dead end and nothing could be done with this aircraft, the allies would soon begin to suspect, it would be easier to start developing a new one, cheaper and simpler.

[NDR-791]

Quote: figvam

it's easier to start developing a new one, cheaper and simpler.

And financially beneficial

[novel66]

it's easier to start developing a new one,

what for? the F-15 copes with all the tasks perfectly, and there is no need to invent anything (in fact, the order for them already)

[figwam]

Quote: novel xnumx

what for? F-15 copes with all tasks perfectly

Indeed, why change the F-15 developed in the 60s, the modernization potential of which has long been exhausted and it was still losing to our Su-27.

[Doccor18]

Quote: figvam

... it's easier to start developing something new, cheaper and easier.

Well, they are not in the first ... Experience is.
F22, Zumwalt, littoral torment, Seawulf (good, but unbearably expensive) ...

[K150]

With the money that went into the f35 program, the Americans could make at least 1000 f22. And they whined that he was expensive. The miser pays twice, and the sucker pays three times.

[figwam]

Quote: K150

With the money that went into the f35 program, the Americans could make at least 1000 f22. And if that he is expensive.

Something tells me that the F-22 is not the problem in its price. Only officially, about 35 billion dollars have been spent on the F-60 program and there is no end to this, but the world is constantly surrounded by American lies.

[Incvizitor]

They have already rushed to finish the old ones and extend the resource, they realized that this is a stupid base for equipment and weapons only at a price more expensive than a gold bar of the same size.

[Mountain shooter]

Murder will out? For what purpose did all this infa climb? A really unsuccessful program, but a lot of people have already invested in it, the money has been "repulsed" and it is necessary to start something new? It looks like it. The striped ears were not going to fight.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Murder will out? For what purpose did all this infa climb?

Or the Chinese are going to bring their fighters to the market in the near future and dump competitors with poop in advance.

[Flooding]

The F-35 already has clear air superiority problems.

Wasn't the F-22 intended for air superiority?

[Cowbra]

And didn’t they nafig close the F-22 program, that is, there’s nothing to gain superiority with a first cut, and then a completely curtailed program?
And yet, the F-35 was planned to replace such a model as the F-15, but it certainly will gain air superiority.

[Flooding]

Quote: Cowbra

And yet, the F-35 was planned to replace such a model as the F-15, but it certainly will gain air superiority.

One of the versions of the aircraft - the F-35A - was developed specifically for the Air Force and will replace the F-16 and F-18 fighters, as well as the A-10 Thunderbolt attack aircraft. The second variant, the F-35C, is intended for aircraft carriers and will take the place of the F / A-18. The third version, the F-35B (fully vertical takeoff), will be the successor to the outdated Harrier. All three aircraft variants are 80 percent unified.

Posted in 2012 vpk.name
what changed?

[novel66]

what changed?

did not grow together ... especially about the warthog

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

did not grow together ... especially about the warthog

Naturally, it is possible to hammer a nail in the road with a microscope, but on the second or third, it will definitely crumble.

[Flooding]

Quote: novel xnumx

did not grow together ... especially about the warthog

that's what plans are to stay on paper

[Cowbra]

The skirt turned out to be long, and there was a short one ... And so they sang beautifully ...

Under the new doctrine, the Air Force will have six air superiority units, which will include two F-22 wings and four F-35 wings. The production of the F-22 has been discontinued and the existing machines are only enough for armament of 1,7 wings, and in the remaining units of the F-35, according to Lockheed, the F-15C / D fighters will be replaced.

Well, just like fuckers about a vigorous loaf, which will soon be made, or a Mask about a cheap falcon

[yehat2]

Quote: Flood

Wasn't the F-22 intended for air superiority?

initially - yes, but its production turned out to be too expensive and there are only about 170 of them left.
therefore, when it became obvious that the pigvin was not able to do this, the f-15, f-15ex and a couple of modifications of f-15 and the new f-18 remained.
When the f-15ex will be commissioned in marketable quantities, it will be an event, because they include a noticeable increase in literally all performance characteristics, except perhaps for speed and visibility, especially with regard to weapons. Perhaps they will start installing modernized engines from the F-22 - then the plane will become even tougher.

[rocket757]

In this regard, US officials are like Indian officials: they also have the best. It's fun.

Funny guys, though. They are not at all afraid of "the very, very, best" that their strategic ... competitor has.

[knn54]

A bunch of sensors, high-precision missiles, stealth technology. The F-35 is designed to:
- "shoot and kill" long range aerial targets.
- "elimination / hacking" of air defense systems.
And almost everything.

[novel66]

drones will do it better

[APASUS]

All the capabilities of the F-35 fighter are closed on its invisibility, the ability to come closer to the target to launch missiles. The fact that this scheme does not work quite correctly does not interest the Americans, the F-35 is still the most perfect, the most invisible, the most ............

[yehat2]

For interception, the F-35 does not have the necessary energy, there is no required cruising speed, there is no required range, there is no required climb speed, there are big problems with combining the combat load and stealth, it also lacks sufficient airframe strength, which is present on f-15 I don't know) finally, the f-16 has an absolutely enchanting loss in the procedure for taking off on alarm in comparison with the f-35, the closed compartments do not allow the use of the full range of interceptor missiles.

[Basarev]

This is the whole problem - incorrect goal-setting. Too many bombing and assault missions were loaded onto the plane to the detriment of fighter missions - and vice versa. And as a result, he turned out to be an amateur of a wide profile who does not really know anything.

[xorek]

In this regard, US officials are like Indian officials: they also have the best. It's fun.

Well done Chinese, how clearly they pinned ..))) And everyone knows better about it, only Russian pilots ..! Hey, where are you vaunted Fu-35, you can't see them in the sky ..

[Guru]

Really. The over-emphasis on the fact that the F-35 is multipurpose has led to the fact that it can be effectively used against ground means, acting as an attack aircraft or bomber, but it has problems with the functions of a fighter. The F-35 already has clear air superiority problems.

Somehow the Japanese Air Force tried to intercept our Tu-35 on the F-160, but he was so bad, he folded his wings and ran away from the interceptors in supersonic mode.

[Prisoner]

This is not an airplane, but a brush with which the United States knocks money out of vassals. (sorry Sharapov for borrowing).

[Siberian54]

Is it flying? Yes it flies .. For sale? Yes it is for sale .. No one sane will fight directly with the Russian Federation or China. For the rest of the world, this American is invisible, beating from over the horizon ..

[decimalegio]

no sane person wants to fight with anyone, be it Russia, China or the rest of the world.

[Siberian54]

Tell this to American presidents and senators

[Rafal Vahitov]

the natives have no fighters with whom to fight for air supremacy, so they turned them into an attack aircraft.

[Sancho_SP]

But does the United States really need a fighter? They do not particularly fight with those who have serious strike aircraft.

[decimalegio]

Just out of curiosity, could you tell me which states with modern aircraft controlled by top guns did the Russian pilots encounter ??

[Incvizitor]

Non-fighter, non-attack, non-bomber ...

[decimalegio]

The F.35 is an attack / bomber, but it was not born to be a pure fighter. One who is born round cannot die square.

[decimalegio]

The F-35 was designed to deal with the threat beyond sight. The Pentagon considers aerial combat obsolete, and the design of the F-35 fully reflects this doctrine. The secretive design of the tactical platform required precise aerodynamics. The F-35 is certainly not the fastest or most maneuverable aircraft the United States could build, but the characteristics of the fifth-generation asset were different. For the Pentagon, mobile combat is a relic of Vietnam. Russia and China think differently. Today we know that it would be unwise to launch the F-35 on the Su-35. In the distant case of old-style combat, the Lockheed platform would have no way out. However, if that had happened, someone would have made a fatal mistake, since the F-35 was not designed to participate in mobile combat. If the US reasoning is wrong or not, it will be discovered when used in the hope that it will never happen. For me, the original mistake of the F.35 is that they wanted to replace too many planes (f16. F15. A10 and Harrier) with one.

[voyaka uh]

"The F-35 was not intended to participate in mobile combat" ///
---
The F-35 is superior to the F-16 in close combat. At least this is verified.
He will more confidently perform bends at a transonic speed along a smaller radius.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Decimalegio

For the Pentagon, mobile combat is a relic of Vietnam. Russia and China think differently. Today we know that it would be unwise to launch the F-35 on the Su-35.

Not so simple. Head-on comparison:




Practice battle of the old man F / A-18D and Su-30MKM. The F-35 replaced Hornet and is better than him in everything.

Quote: Decimalegio

For me, the original mistake of the F.35 is that they wanted to replace too many aircraft (f16. F15. A10 and Harrier) with one.

The F-15 is superfluous here, the F-35 was created to replace the F-16, F / A-18C / D Hornet, A10 and Harrier.
F-15, F / A-18E / F, F-22 were never included in the list to replace this aircraft.

[decimalegio]

You are right, I am wrong about F18, but I wrote F15, thanks

[voyaka uh]

Norway bought 50 F-35s instead of the outdated F-16s and uses them strictly as a fighter.
The Norwegians conducted many exercises:
F-35 against their F-16.
F-35 against Typhoons,
F-35 versus American F-22.
The F-35 fully confirms its fighting qualities as a fighter.
Outperforming the F-16 in close combat.

[decimalegio]

Good to know, thanks for the info. But on this site I only read that the F35 is bullshit. I understand the propaganda, but let's talk about weapons. There are many good weapons both in Russia and in the West.

[voyaka uh]

The F-35 has two factors that are very important in close combat:
1) U-turn, bend along a small radius without loss of speed
at 0.8-0.95 MAX.
2) flight at high angles of attack.
Disadvantages of the F-35 as a fighter:
1) low rate of climb.
2) low afterburner speed (up to 1.6 MAX).
3) small span at cruising supersonic (without afterburner).
350 km at 1.2 MAX (for the F-22, for comparison, 1500 km at 1.6 MAX).

[Rusticolus]

There is one clarification on the first point. The radius doesn't matter. In narrow circles, the turnaround time matters. And I have big doubts that the 35th in this parameter will surpass at least the 18th. And even more doubts about the numbers. 0.8mach at a radius of this order, no pilot can withstand. Let me explain how this ad works. We take the minimum radius, and the maximum speed of at least some non-linear movement. Let's bring it all together. And at the exit we get some kind of antigrav. But in reality, and not advertising, there will always be some kind of balance between these two values. Physics cannot be fooled. In this particular case, overload is always speed * radius = time. And if, in the end, a human-digestible value comes out The one with less time will win. Well, either the one who is more resistant to overloads.

[Maxim_ok]

what is this? retelling of Chinese comments? What nonsense