Military Review

"Dragon" versus "Eagle". Comparison of the US and China fleets

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China in 2020 surpassed the United States in the number of warships, coming out on this indicator in first place in the world. According to published reports from the US Department of Defense, the total size of the Chinese fleet was estimated at 350 ships against 293 American. At the same time, the United States still retains the palm in terms of ship displacement, primarily due to its aircraft carriers.


Considering the pace of shipbuilding in China, it can be assumed that this figure will also fall in the foreseeable future. The "dragon" will surpass the "eagle".

At the same time, the displacement of ships in the fleet is of great importance, since it allows placing more weapons on the ship. Displacement is also of great importance for landing craft.

Over the past 30 years, the Chinese military budget has more than doubled. The rise and development of the economy allows Beijing to spend much more money on its army and navy, placing the main emphasis on the development of means of projection of power around the world, including the navy.

Already now we can say that in the confrontation between the eagle and the dragon, the latter has definitely ceased to be paper. Although the Chinese navy certainly has room to grow. But even in its current form, the Chinese navy is causing great concern at the Pentagon. It is no coincidence that recently American submarines after almost 30 years of absence have returned Harpoon anti-ship missiles, for which potential targets were again found at sea.

The size of the personnel of the fleets of the United States and China


For the assessment and benchmarking, we will use data from The Military Balance 2020, produced by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS). It is important to understand that the data of The Military Balance bulletin does not claim to be absolutely reliable, but at the same time is a generally recognized widely used statistical reference, which allows you to bring research to a single denominator.


The PLA navy consists of submarine forces, surface forces, sea aviation, coastal defense troops and marines. Operationally, it is divided into three fleets: the North Sea Fleet, headquartered in Qingdao, the East Sea Fleet, headquartered in Ningbo, and the South Sea Fleet, headquartered in Zhanjiang.

The total number of military personnel is estimated at about 250 thousand people. The Chinese Marine Corps has been consolidated into a separate corps with its own headquarters, its number is about 25 thousand people. All of them are grouped into 7 brigades: special operations, mechanized, three light and two amphibious. The number of naval aviation is estimated at 26 thousand people.

The US Naval Forces are organizationally divided in the operational and strategic respect into the Pacific Fleet and the US Fleet Command (formerly the Atlantic Fleet), as well as the US Naval Forces in Europe and the Naval Shipping Command. At the same time, in operational terms, the American fleet currently has seven fleets operating around the world: the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and tenth. An interesting detail: The Tenth Fleet is a component of the US Cyber ​​Command within the Navy.


The total number of personnel of the American fleet is estimated at approximately 337 thousand people (excluding the ILC). Of these, 98 people serve in naval aviation, which clearly demonstrates the orientation of the American fleet that has historically developed since the Second World War. The United States Marine Corps, which is a separate branch of the Navy, has 600 personnel.

Such a large number of Marines is also a historically developed state of affairs. Including based on the geographical location of the country, which has no equal adversaries on the continent, but is forced to have large expeditionary forces, allowing, if necessary, to project force in different parts of the planet.

Underwater fleet


The submarine fleet is the dimension where the forces of the PRC and the United States have become equal in terms of the nominal number of submarines without taking into account their qualitative component. In terms of the number of attack / missile submarines, China is even slightly ahead. The PLA navy has 55 such boats, and the US Navy has 53.

All 53 American tactical attack submarines are nuclear powered submarines. The US Navy has no diesel submarines at all. The last time diesel-electric submarines entered service with the US Navy was in the 1950s.


Multipurpose nuclear submarine SSN-776 "Hawaii" of the "Virginia"

The most formidable American multipurpose nuclear submarines are boats of the Virginia type (17 units) and Seawulf (3 units), these ships are classified as submarines of the 4th generation. Moreover, the main multipurpose boats are the third generation submarines of the Los Angeles type, of which 29 units are still in operation. Four more boats are Ohio, but armed not with ballistic missiles, but with UGM109C / E Tomahawk Block III / IV cruise missiles. At the same time, the boat turns into an equally formidable weapon, as it carries on board up to 154 cruise missiles (7 in each of the 22 occupied mines).

In turn, 55 of the 49 Chinese tactical submarines are diesel-electric. These submarines have limited combat potential and autonomy. At the same time, the Chinese fleet has two submarines of project 877 "Halibut" and two submarines of project 636 "Varshavyanka", as well as 8 submarines of project 636M. All boats are made in Russia. The last eight submarines are also armed with an export version of the Kalibr cruise missiles (up to 4 missiles per boat).

Chinese multipurpose nuclear submarines are represented by 6 boats of the Type-093 "Shan" project. The main armament of these boats are YJ-18 cruise missiles, capable of striking surface and ground targets. The missiles are located in vertical launchers. In the United States, it is believed that this missile is similar in characteristics to the Russian "Calibers". In the underwater-based version, its flight range is up to 540 km.


Multipurpose Chinese nuclear submarine of the Type-093 "Shan" project

At the same time, in terms of the number of strategic nuclear missile carriers, the American fleet wins with a significant advantage, which includes 14 such Ohio-class submarines, each of which can carry up to 24 Trident II ICBMs. The Chinese Navy currently has only 4 Type-094 Jin strategic nuclear submarines, each of which can carry up to 12 JL-2 ICBMs.

Aircraft carrier ships


With aircraft carriers, everything is more or less clear from the start. In this component, the United States has an advantage that no other fleet in the world can dispute. The US Navy has 11 nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. At the same time, the very structure of the American fleet is such that it is built around these ships, forming Carrier Strike Groups. 10 out of 11 American aircraft carriers are of the Nimitz class, with a typical air group that typically includes 64 aircraft.

The most advanced American aircraft carrier is the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78). The estimated cost of the ship is approaching $ 13 billion excluding research and development costs, with a total displacement of 98 tons. The size of a typical air group aboard the Gerald Ford is 425+ aircraft. Moreover, if necessary, the ships can carry on board up to 75 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs, including the fifth generation F-90C fighter-bombers in the deck version.


The most modern American aircraft carrier USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78)

In China, the situation with aircraft carriers is much worse. The PLA navy is armed with two aircraft carriers. The first of these, Liaoning, is the former Soviet aircraft carrier of Project 1143.5 Varyag. The design of the ship is as close as possible to the only Russian aircraft carrier "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov". The air group of the Chinese aircraft carrier consists of 18-24 Shenyang J-15 carrier-based fighters (based on the Su-33 prototype) and up to 17 different helicopters.

The second aircraft carrier Project 002 or "Shandong" is a further development of the aircraft carrier "Liaoning". This is the first ship of this class, built from scratch in the PRC. In many ways, it repeats the Liaoning and its Soviet predecessors, with the same air group size - up to 40 aircraft, including 24 J-15 fighters.


The first Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning

By 2030, China plans to have four full-fledged carrier strike groups in its fleet. The PRC expects to achieve this by building two new aircraft carriers of Project 003. The displacement of the ships will increase to 80-85 thousand tons, they will also receive electromagnetic catapults, which will significantly expand the range of aircraft used, primarily by placing heavy vehicles on aircraft carriers.

Large surface warships


In terms of the number of large surface warships, China has almost caught up with the United States. And given the pace of construction of such ships, it can be assumed that very soon the PLA navy will be able to bypass the Americans. As of 2020, the Chinese fleet included 81 large surface combatants: one cruiser, 28 destroyers and 52 frigates.

The American fleet has a slight advantage in these categories - 110 vessels: 22 Ticonderoga-class missile cruisers, two Zumwalt-class destroyers (the most modern and advanced ships of the American fleet), 67 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and 19 frigates.


American missile cruiser "Ticonderoga"

And if the American project Zumwalt, one might say, failed: the ships came out too expensive even for the United States, so the series was limited to only three ships, of which two have already been accepted into the fleet. Either the Chinese plans for the development of the naval forces are more mundane and tangible.

Of the large warships, China relies on destroyers of the Type-055 project. This is a large series of promising large missile destroyers belonging to the fourth generation. By 2030, China plans to build at least 16 such ships. At the same time, the Americans refer this ship to cruisers. One of them has already been put into service and is part of the Northern Fleet of China, and, apparently, there is also the second of the two ships of this project built and transferred to the fleet.

The ship with a total displacement of about 13 thousand tons and a length of 180 meters, which makes it comparable in size to the destroyer Zumwalt, will carry up to 112 vertical missile launch cells (64 at the bow and 48 at the stern of the vessel). In this, it surpasses the Chinese destroyers of the 052D project, which had up to 64 cells for launching missiles.


Leading Chinese large destroyer of the Type-055 project

At the same time, the Chinese vertical launch system provides more flexibility compared to the American Mk.41 and Mk-57 launchers and surpasses them in spaciousness. On Chinese cruisers, it will be possible to combine anti-ship, hypersonic and long-range anti-aircraft missiles. It is believed that the main armament of the new Chinese cruisers could be the YJ-100 supersonic long-range cruise missile, which will complement the Chinese analogue of the YJ-18 Caliber.
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  1. Far B
    Far B 29 March 2021 04: 27
    +15
    Over the past 30 years, the Chinese military budget has more than doubled
    But this, in fact, is not the main thing. Much more important is how many times the technological capabilities of Chinese shipbuilding have grown. And there, they suspect, the account is not once, but in orders.
    1. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 29 March 2021 06: 22
      +3
      There is still a huge problem with personnel training. The Chinese have built the ships, but we still need to learn how to manage them, to lead the formations, but I'm not even talking about combat experience. It will take many more years before the Chinese fleet reaches the required combat capability.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 29 March 2021 10: 20
        0
        the Chinese fleet still has many problems, but at least it has stepped over the line of potential to fight the American fleet on equal terms. If they continue to act in the Tirpitz style for 10-15 years, then their capabilities will almost be compared with the Americans.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 29 March 2021 15: 58
          +1
          If they continue to act in the Tirpitz style for 10-15 years, then their capabilities will almost be compared with the Americans.

          1) China's nuclear submarines, if Russia does not help, and in 15 years will not be close to the American ones.
          2) The armament of Chinese ships in most parameters is still inferior to the armament of the Americans.
          3) Aircraft carriers comparable to the American in quality and quantity, and China will not build in 20 years. And no one will help them here in principle.
          A simple comparison of fleets doesn't make sense IMHO.
          China and the United States build them for different tasks.
          China for protection, States for dominance. hi
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 29 March 2021 16: 19
            -3
            If China squeezes the seas nearby, where a priori already has a 10-fold numerical superiority, and the Russian Federation retains the Northern Sea Route, then what kind of dominance are we talking about?
            Quote: Alex777
            China for protection, States for dominance.

            China did HAVE a defensive fleet, but it has changed, and you have not noticed anything.
            Is China also creating an expeditionary naval corps of 340 thousand people, seriously provided with various ships, for defense in Mongolia?
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 29 March 2021 16: 29
              0
              China did HAVE a defensive fleet, but it has changed, and you have not noticed anything.

              bully
              Without aircraft carriers, there is no dominance.
              China has no decent aircraft carriers.
              There are no aircraft to be based on them.
              Experience in the combat use of aircraft carriers - no.
              There is not so much that it is too lazy to list.
              Is China also creating an expeditionary naval corps of 340 thousand people, seriously provided with various ships, for defense in Mongolia?

              Have you noticed the reform of the USMC? wink
              1. yehat2
                yehat2 29 March 2021 16: 34
                -3
                you have not answered my question
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 29 March 2021 16: 35
                  +3
                  you have not answered my question

                  Replied. though not immediately. bully
                  I thought for a while whether it was necessary.
                  Arrogance does not adorn anyone.
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      2. Proxima
        Proxima 29 March 2021 11: 22
        +6
        "China in 2020 outstripped the United States in number of warships, coming out on this indicator in first place in the world. " - from the text. According to this indicator, even approximately the power of the fleets, to compare, to put it mildly, is not correct. Example: North Korea ranks first in the world in terms of the number of combat submarines. fellow There were even experts who ignored the North Korean submarines, which are in semi-conservation, but have their own crews and periodically go to sea. All the same, S. Korea is in the honorable 4th place in terms of the number of submarines (after China, the USA and Russia) and this is completely untrue in terms of the combat power of the submarine fleet. Statistics are tricky here .. No.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 29 March 2021 21: 59
          +1
          earlier, the Chinese fleet consisted of several thousand small warships.
          including several hundred torpedo boats.
          It was a purely coastal defensive fleet, but the size was such that it is not entirely clear how to break through.
    2. Proxima
      Proxima 29 March 2021 13: 17
      +5
      From the text: "The American Navy possesses in these categories small advantage - 110 ships: 22 missile cruisers of the Ticonderoga type ... " - the author has a strange idea of ​​a "small" advantage request - 22 missile cruisers against one Chinese! belay
  2. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 04: 29
    -9
    As I read the forecast ... In general, ours and the Chinese will conquer the United States, and then Russia and the United States will unite, and they will pile on China.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 04: 55
      +11
      And then the United States will say that Bolivar will not stand two and will shoot in the back of Russia.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 05: 03
        0
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        And then the United States will say that Bolivar will not stand two and will shoot in the back of Russia.

        And Rosinante will kick with his hoof. laughing
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 29 March 2021 04: 59
      +3
      The Chinese will not fight against the United States, large investments are being poured into America. and the Chinese there are about 4 million. Yes, the same Jackie Chan is Chinese. But the Chinese creeping expansion has not been canceled. The Chinese are our enemies, this is for one leader, they are awesome friends.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 05: 03
        +2
        The Chinese are not our enemies, but competitors, but the United States is our enemy ... in the military doctrine of this country, Russia is an enemy and the goal is to destroy and destroy our state as well as Yugoslavia.
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 29 March 2021 06: 40
          +4
          You have read this doctrine. Did they bring you the original, stolen from Trump-Biden's desk from the FSB? Not ?
        2. Free wind
          Free wind 29 March 2021 07: 04
          +11
          And where are we competitors to them? Too shy to ask. Car manufacturing? Light industry? Electronics? ...?
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 09: 00
            +5
            Quote: Free Wind
            And where are we competitors to them? Too shy to ask. Car manufacturing? Light industry? Electronics? ...?

            in the cinema, perhaps. And that's all. laughing
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 05: 07
        +1
        Quote: Free Wind
        Yes, the same Jackie Chan is Chinese.

        Bruce Lee was also Chinese ... And Lee Brandon was shot ..
      3. arkadiyssk
        arkadiyssk 29 March 2021 07: 39
        +15
        I would like to demonstrate what the "China Creeping Expansion" is

        This is, for example, off the coast of India 150 !!! trawlers continuously vacuumed the Arabian Sea. They do not return home with their catch, but simply work in one place. With a continuous supply of fuel, supplies and people and caravans back frozen fish. There is nothing of the kind even off the coast of China itself. Not any other country in the world. They work in the same way in Africa. That is why they need the Ocean Fleet, and not for wars with America, as the "local fools" say here.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 08: 58
          +8
          Quote: arkadiyssk
          and not for wars with America, as the "local fools" say here.

          Yes, but it won't take long for the Chinese to declare that their investments in Africa and South Africa are protected. And here without the ocean fleet in any way)
        2. sergej987
          sergej987 29 March 2021 13: 00
          0
          The Chinese put these trackers on the floor with affected nets. Physically, there are no ships there.
      4. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 29 March 2021 11: 48
        0
        Quote: Free Wind
        The Chinese will not fight against the United States, large investments are being poured into America. and the Chinese there are about 4 million. Yes, the same Jackie Chan is Chinese. But the Chinese creeping expansion has not been canceled. The Chinese are our enemies, this is for one leader, they are awesome friends.


        And for the Americans - the Russians are awesome "friends" so what? By the way, the user Lech is right, for the United States Russia is an enemy, this is clearly indicated in the updated US National Security Strategy, and even before that, the US Senate and the Pentagon did not hesitate to directly indicate who their enemy is ... but China - the United States was designated as a competitor , and in this connection it is better for us to be friends with the PRC (more chances of survival in principle), but if we act alone, then given the pressure of the USA + EU + (Great Britain, Canada, Australia, Japan ...) we will be pushed to the sidelines of history , i.e. we are losing markets, access to technology, etc. and become the second Cuba or Iran on a larger scale (at best) and at worst will continue the policy of fragmentation of our state, as happened with the USSR only on a much larger scale ... is such a prospect satisfied? And to prevent this from happening, Russia needs allies, i.e. those countries that will create an anti-American coalition, at the beginning it is the Russia + China link, then Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea + SCO, the Eurasian Union and numerous trade partners of China (in the Middle East, Africa, South America .. even in Europe, the PRC has its own outposts and countries that are already beginning to focus on China) and in this configuration, the picture of the world is already different and the Western coalition should think hard about whether they will pull out such a confrontation, taking into account the growth of China, the strengthening of the New Silk Road and its influence on the rest of the world.

        In any case, the United States - Russia is not on the way, the 90s and "democracy" with American characteristics, or, more precisely, the American view of the world and Russia's place in this world, have already passed through the XNUMXs.
        1. for
          for 29 March 2021 12: 51
          -1
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          And for Americans, Russians are awesome "friends"

          It is better to have open enemies of the Americans than "friends" (partners) of the Chinese. "
          1. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 29 March 2021 13: 08
            +4
            Quote: for
            It is better to have open enemies of the Americans than "friends" (partners) of the Chinese. "


            The Chinese have no goals to split Russia, it is easier for them to cooperate and buy what they need, unlike the United States, which is tearing away from Russia - the former Soviet republics, absorbing new territories - assimilating them (EU, NATO - English, their own standards) and who want to continue, the 90s business and finish what they did not finish + they have completely different approaches, China allows other people's opinions and interests (if only they cooperate and buy Chinese goods), the USA does not ... because it all started long before 2014 and even until 2008. Recall at least the Munich speech of the GDP, where he stated that Russia has its own interests and that the Western elites did not understand, in their opinion we lost and now, like Germany or Japan, we must obediently listen to the will of the United States and do what they tell us, but we didn’t want to, and now all that happens is the consequences of Sovereignty.

            The PRC, on the other hand, respects the interests of Russia and does not cross the border of what is permissible, and if it does, then it is possible to attract other external players to contain it, but China has completely different problems and interests (Taiwan, disputes with India, tense relations with Japan, South Korea, trade and political war with the United States, etc.).
        2. husband
          husband 18 May 2021 12: 11
          0
          Have already passed. Change in your reflections China to Germany and you will receive the pre-war policy of Stalin.

          We are a European people, and in the event of an invasion of our land, our allies have always been and will be the Anglo-Saxons. What's with Napoleon, what's in both World Wars.
          1. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 18 May 2021 19: 01
            0
            Quote: sot
            We are a European people, and in the event of an invasion of our land, our allies have always been and will be the Anglo-Saxons. What's with Napoleon, what's in both World Wars.


            We consider ourselves a European people, but what do the Anglo-Saxons think about this? We are barbarians for them, savages and will never be our own, this is historically so ... here is the United States for the Anglo-Saxons, their former colonies (Canada, Australia, etc.), too, they share the same values, they have a common history, culture , language .... and we are strangers to them. And no matter how many knocks on closing the door, there will be no sense .... at one time Russia and NATO asked, and there was talk about a common economic space from Lisbon to Vladivostok, but the result is exactly the opposite, but why? Because in Foggy Albion and Washington, there is a completely different opinion on our account.
      5. petroff
        petroff April 2 2021 10: 44
        0
        The Chinese may not be ... But the United States will.
        So it makes no difference.
        Now China will land in Taiwan, which is more than likely. And the United States will move the Pacific Fleet to help Taiwan, as promised. Here comes the war.
        And so - yes, China will not attack the United States, but they will fight.
    3. Egoza
      Egoza 29 March 2021 05: 01
      -2
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      In general, ours and the Chinese will conquer the United States, and then Russia and the United States will unite, and they will pile on China.

      I am "summing up" in such a forecast. If ours with China ... yes against the United States .... then there will be nothing left of the United States, there will be no one to unite with. But the fact that the yuan will oust the dollar - that's what the Bulgarian Vanga said.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 05: 09
        +6
        Quote: Egoza
        Bulgarian Vanga spoke.

        Did you say exactly?
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 05: 17
          0
          How from the other world can you say something, someone's afterlife glitches begin ... Wang has been predicting in the afterlife for a long time.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 05: 21
            -2
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Vanga has been predicting in the afterlife for a long time

            Vanga predicted to us in 2025 that Russia would be a world order .... Oba!
          2. Free wind
            Free wind 29 March 2021 06: 09
            +9
            See kRen-tv. There, since 2000, Pokorpenko has been broadcasting about Wanga's predictions, about an awesome take-off. True periods of 5 years. In 2000 we will take off in 2005, In 2005 we will take off in the tenth. etc.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 06: 28
              +4
              Quote: Free Wind
              Pokorpenko there

              There is not only Prokopenko, but Anka Chapman is also driving a snowstorm there.
              1. Free wind
                Free wind 29 March 2021 06: 43
                +7
                Chapman was much more involved, the pioneer there is Porkopenko. laughing
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 08: 11
        +11
        Quote: Egoza
        This is what the Bulgarian Vanga said.

        Nuuu, if Wanga said .... Then yes.
    4. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 29 March 2021 05: 03
      +5
      Nobody will unite with anyone. Every man for himself ... Our "friendship" with China is at the level of ice cream for Xi. And with the Yankees "friendship" with the "Topol" in the sleeve.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 05: 07
        +4
        Well, friends are all around ... one has a dagger behind his back, the other has a Colt.
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 29 March 2021 07: 10
          0
          The Chinese have a type of knife tied to a bamboo stick. In short. From behind the forest, from behind the mountains, a Chinese man showed an ax. Yes, he did not just show him, he tied him to a bamboo. wassat
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 29 March 2021 08: 06
            -1
            Quote: Free Wind
            From behind the forest, from behind the mountains, a Chinese man showed an ax

            Oops, oops, green fence! Girls # priest, so he needs it!
    5. horus88
      horus88 29 March 2021 05: 07
      -2
      Yeah, only we will have to fight on the ground, and the Americans then, at the end, will swim up to finish off the dragon. And they will say that they saved humanity from the yellow threat So-so perspective ...
      Better to let them fight themselves, once at a time. And we, on the sly, with Europe will solve something. There will be one great Russia, from Lisbon to Vladivostok. This is much more promising than a land war with a billion-dollar China
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 05: 13
        -2
        There is no need for Lisbon with its homosexuals and Arab refugees ... there are enough of our own problems.
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 29 March 2021 07: 50
          +6
          And you are talking about these where such a specialist? Have you been harassed?
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 12: 35
            +1
            Quote: Free Wind
            And you are talking about these where such a specialist? Have you been harassed?

            He didn't give in. Remained loyal to Android.
          2. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 12: 49
            -2
            Spit ... mind you ... spit on you. belay
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        6. Rita Aletdinova 1999
          Rita Aletdinova 1999 29 March 2021 19: 36
          0
          So in Russia there will be much more homosexuals. And why did the Arabs not please you? There are many excellent doctors and businessmen among them. To begin with, deal with your Tajiks and illegal migration, which is beneficial to your powerful thieves.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 08: 13
        +4
        Quote: horus88
        As soon as we have to fight on the ground, and the Americans then, at the end, will swim up to finish off the dragon.

        What about a dragon?
        Quote: horus88
        And we, on the sly, with Europe will solve something. There will be one great Russia, from Lisbon to Vladivostok

        Is the seat enough?
        Quote: horus88
        This is much more promising

        Seeing perspectives in this delirium is a stronger thing than Mao's quotation book, yes ...
    6. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 07: 52
      -1
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      As I read the forecast ... In general, ours and the Chinese will conquer the United States, and then Russia and the United States will unite, and they will pile on China.

      What the fuck is a "forecast". I came up with it myself - say so. "Forecast", damn it ... And the people with a smart look rushed to reason. Laughter.
    7. petroff
      petroff April 2 2021 11: 00
      0
      Rave. Ours will not climb into Taiwan, Vietnam, Myanmar, support the expansion of China.
      1 is far away, and to carry out Chinese expansion with your own hands ... What is the profit, to burn fuel and waste ammunition for the good of China?
      2 The United States will not climb on China, before its aggression towards Taiwan. And when the Taiwan "kneading" happens, the United States will move its Pacific Fleet (about 50% of the US naval forces), which, taking into account China's coastal forces and aviation, is not enough. That is, it makes sense for Russia to get involved in their conflict if China, even without Russia, frolics well, sending half of the US ships to the bottom. And the Russian fleet will not reach China. Japan has already signed up to participate on the side of the United States, and the Russian fleet, acting on the side of China, go past Japan. That is, the Japanese are attacking us halfway to China.
      In general, in the aggressive campaigns of China, Russia can support politically and diplomatically no more.
  3. svp67
    svp67 29 March 2021 05: 39
    +1
    Everything is correct, but one main point is missing. China, due to its geographical position, has a clear advantage over the United States, as it is able to concentrate its naval forces in one direction.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  4. apro
    apro 29 March 2021 05: 59
    +1
    Children's disputes. Who is stronger than a whale or an elephant. And then how to give ...
    China learned a lot from the opium wars. It can be said that they instilled for the rest of their lives. It is necessary to resist against the colonialists. By any means and methods, and there are no friends there. And the Russians, including, before the socialist revolution, a small predator. After 1991, he returned to his previous state. weakened.
    A direct military conflict with the PRC sga will hardly go. The problem of Taiwan will be solved by economic expansion. Or it will be easier to buy. And the Chinese know how to wait.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 08: 42
      +5
      Quote: apro
      China was taught a lot by the opium wars. It can be said that they were instilled for the rest of their lives. It is necessary to resist against the colonialists. By any means

      And what, we are talking about the colonization of China? By whom?
      The Opium Wars have shown that quantitative superiority in the wars of modern times does not guarantee success - it’s a matter of quality.
      Quote: apro
      and there are no friends there. and Russians including. before the socialist revolution, a petty predator

      Absolutely right. But somehow it is not customary among the patriotic Imperials to remember how RI, in the company of the same predators, derailed China and cheerfully wetted the ichtuanians. Shoulder to shoulder, so to speak, with the Japanese, with whom 4 years later she herself fought ingloriously over Manchuria.
  5. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 29 March 2021 06: 44
    +4
    Funny, by God.
    America will go to war with China, and then with us, or we with them, or with China, or with America ...
    Ага.
    And what about us, and they, have vigorous bonbs?
    And the whole war will be over in half an hour, while the missiles are flying ...
    That's who needs it.
    America? China? Yes, they invested so much in each other - they got dusty that they wouldn't even dream about it in a nightmare.
    Us? I strongly doubt it.
    As someone correctly wrote here, we will reduce their population to 100 million, and they will reduce us to one, and then, if we are lucky.
    The war will go cold, or as they call it now, hybrid. There will be pushing with elbows, pushing out competitors wherever possible, mutual compromises. And under the distribution (under the bombs) will get smaller guys who will become food for the world's sharks.
    The main thing is that we do not slide down to the level of this very feed. Otherwise, friends-competitors will first eat us together together, and then they will again continue to sort things out among themselves.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 07: 45
      -1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      The war will go cold, or as they call it now, hybrid.

      In other words, frigid)
    2. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 29 March 2021 12: 51
      -2
      Who is the first to reach the basement ... that is the question.
    3. petroff
      petroff April 2 2021 11: 05
      0
      Blah blah blah...
      And they will not attack each other.
      There is Taiwan.
      China will attack Taiwan, not the United States.
      And the United States will protect him ...
      Otherwise, yes, they will not fight, they just shoot each other with missiles, bomb them, drown half of their fleet ...
      And they will not fight at all ...
  6. knn54
    knn54 29 March 2021 07: 11
    +2
    Tons.units.comparison, as they say, by "size". The growth rate of the Celestial Empire's fleet is impressive.
    Now than "bullet".
    Here the Chinese have supersonic anti-ship missiles, which the Yankes do not have. analogue of "Caliber". Sea MANPADS, analogue of S-300. Well, otherwise there is nothing so outstanding.
    It makes no sense to compare naval aviation (a total of 300 Chinese aircraft), but the PRC is striving to develop aviation in the coastal zone.
    China lags behind (both from the United States and from the Russian Federation) in the field of electronic and hydroacoustic equipment.
    The level of training is not high. If naval practice is still being developed, then there are not enough commanders of formations and high-ranking staff officers. And paradoxically, this "shortage" grows with the increase in the "size" of the fleet. But this is today.
    Considering how seriously the PRC approached the formation of the MODERN fleet tomorrow, there may be a different picture.
    1. petroff
      petroff April 2 2021 11: 25
      0
      You forgot about 60 coastal mobile anti-ship missiles with a distance of 1800 km.
      I quote: “initially the DF-21 was developed as a strategic weapon, the later versions of the DF-21 were adapted as carriers of not only nuclear (up to 300 kt), but also warheads in conventional warheads. The latest modification, the DF-21D, became the first and only world anti-ship ballistic missile "
  7. novel66
    novel66 29 March 2021 07: 14
    +1
    The number of naval aviation is estimated at 26 thousand people.

    Do you have planes?
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 29 March 2021 07: 59
      0
      Quote: novel xnumx
      Do you have planes?

      Coastal aviation is meant.
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 March 2021 08: 10
        +3
        what's the difference? at least strange - the fleets and aviation are counted by people, and not by ships and planes
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 March 2021 08: 17
          -1
          The whole article is strange here. A mix of Chinese and American propaganda.
          1. petroff
            petroff April 2 2021 11: 31
            0
            Do you think that in comparing the fleets of the United States and China, it is necessary to advertise the capabilities of the Russian, Indian, British fleet?
            As it were, the topic of the fleets, China and the United States ...
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine April 2 2021 19: 17
              +1
              No. I believe that if you write as if you were an analyst, then you do not need to cheat on either the Chinese jingoistic patriots or the American admirals who write fairy tales for the Congress.

              China is one of four to five countries with a high seas fleet.
              China is building the first full-fledged aircraft carrier (the current ones are training) and is designing its own Hokkai. After that, it will become the second country, after France, capable of forming a full-fledged AUG. One.

              Americans have 10 or 11 full-fledged AUGs. They are stronger than all the other fleets in the world put together. There is no talk of any rivalry in the foreseeable future.

              But the second fleet of the world, albeit with a gigantic lead over the first, has its own capabilities. So comrades are working. It is quite possible that a specific situation will arise when the Americans have no interest in getting in, but the Chinese have. Africa, for example, is full of Chinese interests. An aircraft carrier would come in handy here, but here it is already. This is a very slow business, as the supporters of the aircraft carrier Storm are usually poorly understood.
              1. petroff
                petroff April 3 2021 10: 56
                0
                1 why did you write this, the conversation is not about that, but about the fact that the author supposedly extols both sides of the conflict. And you now extol the power of the United States exclusively.
                2 China is the only one in the world who has ballistic anti-ship missiles in the world and all ten US AUGs fight at a distance without any problems. And these dozens of anti-ship missiles ... And considering that the US will never move the WHOLE fleet, but only the Pacific, the ratio is clearly not in favor of the US.
                The strength of the US Navy is in their missiles, and possibly in aviation, but the AUG, having suffered greatly, will get away from harm.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine April 3 2021 11: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: petroff
                  the author allegedly extols both sides of the conflict

                  The author retells Chinese propaganda and American fiction for Congress. His Chinese frigates are compared with berks in number.
                  Quote: petroff
                  China is the only one in the world who has ballistic anti-ship missiles

                  In vain you offend our dear Soyuzmultfilm and his Zircon rocket. Although the Chinese in 3D videos, of course, perked up better, the music is modern, everything is.

                  Ballistic anti-ship missiles are a 50-year-old theme. Broken theme.

                  Quote: petroff
                  The strength of the US Navy in their missiles, and possibly in aviation

                  The strength of the US Navy lies in the fact that the US has it as a global strategic factor. China has not yet. But China is now the only country that is working in this direction.

                  Surprisingly little is known in Russia of the theory that TMV with the United States is neither the main nor even an important factor determining the development of all branches of the military. The armed forces of a normal country - and China in this respect is close to normality - is not a gift for the Armageddon tree, but a structure that should work out its bread whenever it can be useful.
                  1. petroff
                    petroff April 3 2021 13: 28
                    0
                    1 here you are claiming that the United States has 10 (11) AUG, but this is objectively not the case. For this is ALL. And the United States cannot take and transfer all AUG to the shores of China, exposing the rest of the bases and water areas. They will never muster an ENTIRE fleet in the Pacific, leaving the Atlantic out of cover. That is, only three Pacific fleets will fight against China. Accordingly, the United States does not and cannot have that amount on which you rest. Feel free to divide not two everything that you think about the power of the US Navy.
                    2 non-working topic talking about? 50 years ago?
                    I quote:
                    "China's deployment of the DF-21D raised serious concerns in the US military. For example, in August 2010, The Washington Times published an analyst opinion that the DF-21D was capable of penetrating the defenses of the best aircraft carriers and that it was the first threat to the global dominance of the US Navy since During the Cold War, in January 2011, US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said that among China's military developments, the DF-21D and the J-20 fighter were the biggest concerns.
                    To provide target designation of anti-ship ballistic missiles, China launched a number of satellites "
                    That is, it is acting.
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine April 3 2021 13: 40
                      +2
                      Quote: petroff
                      They will never assemble an ENTIRE fleet in the Pacific Ocean, leaving the Atlantic behind.

                      Cover from whom? Have you already formed a military alliance between the PRC and the EU, or what?
                      The fundamental difference between AB and coastal aviation is that they can be where you need it. And fast.
                      Quote: petroff
                      That is, the current

                      Acting - in the sense that the American military needs more money because of it? So they never get drunk.

                      Or do you believe that politicians (and the highest American military are politicians, this is how the system works there) never lie?
                      1. petroff
                        petroff April 3 2021 13: 45
                        0
                        China's ballistic anti-ship missile system. Read carefully. US AUG are destroyed at a distance of 1700-1900 km from the coast of China. Even without the participation of the Chinese fleet. The United States has already recognized them as the most important threat to the navy. Not aviation, not the navy, but the ballistic anti-ship missiles of China.
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine April 3 2021 14: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: petroff
                        The United States has already recognized them as the most important threat to the navy. Not aviation, not the navy, but the ballistic anti-ship missiles of China.

                        Well, the budget committee needs something to rub in, but about the Chinese fleet and Chinese aviation it turns out even more ridiculous than about the miracle missiles. With rockets, all moves were worked out back in Soviet times.
                        Quote: petroff
                        analysts' opinion was published

                        American analysts, as a rule, are not interested in writing that the main problem of the Navy is cuts, including on child wives, and carelessness. Whether it's a miracle rocket.
                        Quote: petroff
                        To provide target designation of anti-ship ballistic missiles, China launched a number of satellites

                        Ballistic mobile anti-ship missiles system

                        By coincidence, the Americans have been learning to shoot down the MRBM for 30 years already, and they also have anti-satellite weapons on any destroyer. So, even in theory, the Chinese wunderwafers work exactly the same as the Soviet wunderwafers 40 years ago - at the first sudden blow from the PRC.
                    2. petroff
                      petroff April 3 2021 13: 46
                      0
                      The USA has never assembled the ENTIRE fleet in one ocean. NEVER. Why would you? Can you tell?
                    3. petroff
                      petroff April 3 2021 13: 50
                      0
                      Once again about ballistic anti-ship missiles

                      China's deployment of the DF-21D has raised serious concerns in US military circles. So, in August 2010, the Washington Times published the opinion of analysts that the DF-21D is capable of breaking through the protection of the best aircraft carriers and that it was the first threat to the global dominance of the US Navy since the Cold War. In January 2011, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said that among the Chinese military developments, the DF-21D and the J-20 fighter are the most worrisome.

                      To provide target designation of anti-ship ballistic missiles, China launched a number of satellites

                      A system of ballistic mobile anti-ship missiles destroying any AUG at a distance of 1700-1900 km. Works !!!
                      And you said no ... Or maybe you are not aware of the capabilities of China?
                    4. petroff
                      petroff April 3 2021 14: 01
                      0
                      The USA has 7 fleets. Three in the Pacific Ocean they will act as they did in World War II, Korean and Vietnamese. Three Atlantic, two with bases in the United States, the third in Naples and the one that is always wiping out in the Persian Gulf. They will never remove the Atlantic. The maximum will be transferred to the Sixth glorified in all anecdotes. That is, a maximum of 4 out of seven. That is 6 AUG out of 10 that are. Well, in life, the United States will not collect all the available fleet in one place ... To save some kind of Taiwan.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 29 March 2021 08: 51
        -1
        Quote: novel xnumx
        what's the difference? at least strange - the fleets and aviation are counted by people, and not by ships and planes

        laughing
        Precisely noticed)
        "The first thing we think is the planes ..."
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 29 March 2021 09: 24
    -6
    There is no need for China to have a fleet comparable to that of the United States. The fleet, even if it is idle, is a huge amount of money for maintenance, and if it also floats around the world, it will devour half of the country's defense budget. It is better to defend its shores with ground aircraft and missiles, which China is doing, and what is already there will be enough to destroy its neighbors.
    1. petroff
      petroff April 3 2021 13: 40
      0
      It is absolutely true if on the part of the United States it will be a war of fleets (or rather, only three Pacific fleets, which is half and the US ships can be safely divided into two)
      Then China will act not only with its entire fleet, but will also have the support of all its aviation and coastal anti-ship weapons. And China, for a second, is the only country that has modern ballistic mobile anti-ship missiles with a distance of 1700-1900 km. Which makes any AUG defenseless and useless. And these installations are about 60 ...
      In general, the power of China on its shores is three times more than declared. And the United States has two times less. No one will give the command to shoot the ENTIRE fleet including the Atlantic in order to throw all the forces on China.
      At a maximum distance of 2 km, they will swim and express concern ... Otherwise, the United States will lose all of its toys.
  • Eldorado
    Eldorado 29 March 2021 10: 10
    +5
    The article is very weak, the data on the Chinese fleet is very outdated (since everything is taken from the domestic Wikipedia).
  • dgonni
    dgonni 29 March 2021 13: 11
    0
    How does the proverb say there?
    It takes three years to build a ship.
    To start a 300 year old tradition!
    Incidentally wise proverb!
    Tradition is precisely the school of victories and defeats of the fleet and the system of personnel training.
    Looking back in the old days? Then the Chinese navy, in fact, is all sad in this regard.
    Although times are changing!
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 18 May 2021 06: 34
      -1
      To start a 300 year old tradition! Incidentally wise proverb!

      The arrogance of British admirals and nothing more

      How many years did it take for the Japanese fleet to break out on the 2-3 line in the world

      At the beginning of the twentieth century.

      And it took the Kriegsmarines many centuries to learn how to fight at sea
  • ccsr
    ccsr 29 March 2021 19: 05
    -2
    Author:
    Yuferev Sergey
    With aircraft carriers, everything is more or less clear from the start. In this component, the United States has an advantage that no other fleet in the world can dispute. The US Navy has 11 nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. At the same time, the very structure of the American fleet is such that it is built around these ships, forming Carrier Strike Groups. 10 out of 11 American aircraft carriers are of the Nimitz class, with a typical air group that typically includes 64 aircraft.

    Just with aircraft carriers, a lot is now becoming unclear, and it seems that even the Americans realized that these mastodons are not only an easy target for countries such as Russia or China, but also costly weapons:
    "We will not pull any more": what the United States decided to do with its aircraft carriers.
    The Biden administration has returned to the question of the early decommissioning of the aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman. The ship should serve at least another 25 years, however, most likely, it will be cut into metal much earlier. However, this is not the first time that fierce discussions around the American aircraft carrier fleet have arisen. How the fate of the "symbols of democracy" is being decided - in the material of RIA Novosti.
    The aircraft carrier fleet of 11 units was approved as part of the 2007 naval strategy. It was assumed that these ships would be required only in two main theaters: in the western Pacific Ocean and the Persian Gulf. Now the United States is worried about the sharp increase in the Russian navy in the Mediterranean and North Atlantic.
    At the same time, admirals are increasingly reporting serious technical problems with aircraft carriers and rising costs of their maintenance. For example, in 2019, only the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower remained operational on the east coast of the United States. The rest were at various stages of modernization and overhaul, and the power supply system on the Harry Truman was out of order.
    Things are not going well with the commissioning of new "floating airfields". The first aircraft carrier of the next generation, USS Gerald R. Ford has not been able to bring to mind for more than 15 years. The ship was laid down in 2005, launched in 2013, and planned to start full operation in a year. However, numerous design defects were immediately identified. And so serious that it has not been possible to eliminate it so far.

    https://ria.ru/20210329/avianosets-1602969370.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com%2F%3Ffrom%3Dspecial&utm_campaign=dbr&utm_source=YandexZenSpecial
    If China gets involved in the carrier race, then we can only rejoice - the more they make them, the more they will have expenses and the less funds will remain for strategic missiles, and we will benefit from this directly.
  • WapentakeLokki
    WapentakeLokki 29 March 2021 21: 01
    0
    Chinese people can build (and real - can) and 1000 ships but ... this will not make them a Sea Power .. in other words, 10000 ships is not a FLEET !!! and the Fleet is based primarily on TRADITIONS !!! and of course on the personnel ... but the Chinas are not Enlightened sailors and grandchildren of Admirals Nimitz Lockwood and Halsey .. (here even our long-suffering Navy has a HISTORY and of course HEROES !!!) but the whole story of the Chinas, for some reason, trampled by all who could swim to her (well, or walk with pokhom) and this is real for the fruits of their kinem ... well, they are not warriors ... not even something like Drake and Morgan, and even Sinabad-Sailor is not pulled ... this, scientifically, is a mentality .. and its decree cannot be changed by the CCP .. (perhaps Comrade Stalin was able to do that, but .. it was a long time ago) ... to summarize .. if the tea house really BELIEVES that they have a FLEET and it will go out into the ocean on it ... in general, our Tsushima will be like a sandbox ... but in addition to mattress covers in this region there is also South Korea and, of course, the pearl of the region - Yamato (I cannot stress these descendants of the goddess Ameterasu) _... but these have plenty of both fighting spirit and technology ... something like this ...
    1. Usher
      Usher 30 March 2021 00: 04
      -2
      South Korea and, of course, the pearl of the region - Yamato (I cannot but emphasize these descendants of the goddess Ameterasu) _... but these have both fighting spirit and technology in abundance ... something like that ...
      There are too many epithets and curtsies in the direction of Japan, which is now not at all the same as before. Now they have no sovereignty from the word at all. And there is no spirit among the people. The same disaster in Fukushima revealed the entire "organization, the descendants of the goddess Ameterasu." Stupid meat without an order. South Korea has no combat experience or military tradition at all. Moreover, the mentality of people.
      1. Rusticolus
        Rusticolus 30 March 2021 09: 33
        +1
        You're right. The last samurai remained in the caves of Iwo Jima. Now the Japanese are completely different people. Coward sniffers are only formally descendants of fearless warriors.
        1. WapentakeLokki
          WapentakeLokki 30 March 2021 19: 07
          0
          yeah .. someone on June 22, 1941 also believed that the Doychev proletarian would not kill the Soviet proletarian ... and the same mattress covers until December 7 of the same 1941 believed that the Yamato Air Force .. well, at the level of copywriting of outdated models from Germany and the same USA .. so it is not necessary to belittle the samurai altogether .. and even more so their fleet ..
          py.sy. as there are still no submarines in Russia with lithium AB and Air Independent Plants ... and our Kuzya is not the newest Japanese helicopter carrier ... but again, yes, we will shower them with hats ...
          1. Usher
            Usher 30 March 2021 20: 17
            -2
            Quote: WapentakeLokki
            yeah .. someone on June 22, 1941 also believed that the Doychev proletarian would not kill the Soviet proletarian ... and the same mattress covers until December 7 of the same 1941 believed that the Yamato Air Force .. well, at the level of copywriting of outdated models from Germany and the same USA .. so it is not necessary to belittle the samurai altogether .. and even more so their fleet ..
            py.sy. as there are still no submarines in Russia with lithium AB and Air Independent Plants ... and our Kuzya is not the newest Japanese helicopter carrier ... but again, yes, we will shower them with hats ...

            Here we are talking about
            (I can't stress enough these descendants of the goddess Ameterasu) _... but these have plenty of both fighting spirit and technique ... something like that ...
            "fighting spirit". Which is not seen in modern Japan. They are totally dependent on the United States. What is politically, what is economically. During the Second World War, they scattered China, and the arrogant Britas (and poking the British with their 1-2 battleships against 1-2 German battleships, they scattered China, and the arrogant British battleships, this is not at all the same level). But they immediately got rid of the intelligible military machine represented by the USA and the USSR.
            1. Rusticolus
              Rusticolus 31 March 2021 05: 15
              0
              Moreover, the atomic bombing did not solve anything. There is no valor in finishing off the defeated one. But as experience has shown, this may well break an entire nation with a valiant history. the Americans wanted to do it with the Russians, but they were unlucky. In return, they really do not like to receive.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Eug
    Eug 11 June 2021 10: 23
    0
    The PRC fleet, in my opinion, has a significant advantage - in the event of a collision, it will have, at least at the first stage, to operate not far from its coast. Of the minuses, there are many countries in the region that are dissatisfied with the policy of the PRC, and, most likely, in the event of a collision, the fleets and bases of these countries will help the Americans. In short, it will be fun ...
  • Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 13 June 2021 17: 49
    0
    Americans. with all my disrespect for them, great sailors, the traditions of the British. Englishmen 9 Americans 0 walked around the world, and the Chinese barely SWIMMED on junks. There are no great Chinese sailors! Simply no .
  • iv.viktor
    iv.viktor Today, 14: 57
    0
    Зачем-то флот у людей есть.