Multipurpose nuclear submarines of projects 971 and 949A will undergo modernization and rearmament

The Russian fleet will continue to re-equip multipurpose nuclear submarines of projects 971, 949A and 885. All submarines of these projects will receive cruise and anti-ship missiles in the course of modernization. It is reported by RIA News with reference to a source in the DIC.

According to the source, the service life of the project 949A and 971 multipurpose submarines will be doubled; during the modernization, all submarines will be armed with the Kalibr cruise missiles and the Onyx anti-ship missiles, as well as the Zircon hypersonic missiles. Nuclear submarines of project 885 and 885A ("Ash"), which are regular carriers of "Caliber" and "Onyx", will be additionally equipped with "Zircon".

Multipurpose nuclear submarines of projects 971 and 949A after modernization will be armed with "Caliber", "Onyx" and "Zircon". Containers for these missiles are universal

- the agency leads the words of the source.

Note that the program of rearmament of nuclear submarines of projects 949A "Antey" and project 971 ("Schuka-B") is already being implemented. Instead of 24 Granit anti-ship missiles, Antei will receive 48 Caliber and Onyx missiles and, in the future, Zircon. Project 971 submarines from the 24th "Animal Division" of the Northern fleet In the course of modernization, the Navy also receives universal launchers designed for launches of "Caliber", "Onyx" and "Zircon".

Comments

[Grandfather]

what plans we have not heard, what "projects" have not read. bring at least something to the "worker".

[Flooding]

Quote: Dead Day

what plans we have not heard, what "projects" have not read. bring at least something to the "worker".

you will now be written a bunch of examples of "brought to work"
but that's not an argument for you, is it?
to grumble - a position in life?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Flood

to grumble - a position in life?

Whining for any reason is a surefire way to cut down the plus signs on VO.

[Flooding]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Whining for any reason is a surefire way to cut down the plus signs on VO

and you, I see, are not afraid of difficulties))
+ + +

[IGOR GORDEEV]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: Flood

to grumble - a position in life?

Whining for any reason is a surefire way to cut down the plus signs on VO.

Plusanul

[Kalmar]

Quote: Flood

you will now be written a bunch of examples of "brought to work"

By the way, I would also read the list of examples with an interesting look.

I heard about the rearmament of 971 and 949 under the "Caliber" for a long time, but, as I understand it, so far not a single boat has undergone such an upgrade. The thesis about equipping the 971x with new launchers for missiles generally raises a lot of doubts: a very serious alteration of the boat will be required.

[Flooding]

Quote: Dead Day

which only we didn’t hear any plans, we didn’t read any "projects". bring anything to the "worker".

show your perseverance or try to understand that it was not about specific projects
but that everything is bad

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Kalmar

The thesis about equipping 971x with new launchers for missiles generally raises a lot of doubts.

there seems to be a different idea - they can be launched from torpedo tubes

[Kalmar]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

there seems to be a different idea - they can be launched from torpedo tubes

With "Caliber" it will work, of course. But "Onyx" does not fit even into 650 mm TA - it has 670 mm diameter declared.

[Flooding]

Quote: Kalmar

By the way, I would also read the list of examples with an interesting look.

I never saw your answer
do you still need examples to refute the universal groan of Dedkistariy?

[Kalmar]

Quote: Flood

do you still need examples to refute the universal groan of Dedkistariy?

Of course. A little positive in the morning (although, it's almost lunchtime) won't hurt)

[Flooding]

Quote: Kalmar

Of course. A little positive in the morning (although, it's almost lunchtime) won't hurt)

I will not quote lamentations.
It is not clear what the citizen was writing about at all.
I asked to bring at least something to working condition.
There is such a thing even in the Russian military shipbuilding. The successes of which are modest, but not as insignificant as it is written in the upper commentary.
Of course, we will not mention the lines of corvettes - Buyany, Karakurt, 20380. A trifle doesn't count.
Boreas 955? Probably not either. You won't be surprised by them anymore.
Gorshkov 22350? Have you solved the issue with the power plant? They pulled so much. Moreover, they say there were problems with air defense. Disappointment.
It seems that the main problems with the Lada 677 have been resolved. They are going to launch an episode. When they build it, then we'll see.
Grens 11711 are finally finished. And two are being built according to a new project. Nonsense. Just BDK.
UDC laid down? So when they will be.
Upgrading 1155 and 1164? Cat tears.

You know, perhaps I agree with you and Dedkastary.
Let's cry together how bad everything is.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Flood

Of course, we will not mention the lines of corvettes - Buyany, Karakurt, 20380.

Yes, you shouldn't. "Buyans" are a specific product, more for landowners. "Karakurt" turned out better, but it's not entirely clear where to put it. 20380 is a very bad example: the project is constantly being redesigned, each time it turns out to be expensive and somewhat permanently (this topic has been discussed many times).

Quote: Flood

Boreas 955?

The Boreas are generally not bad. Untimely - yes, because there is nothing to cover them with. And there are no torpedo / anti-torpedo weapons for them.

Quote: Flood

Gorshkov 22350? Have you solved the issue with the power plant?

"A ray of light in the dark kingdom", without exaggeration, is the hope of the Russian Navy for the near future. It is a pity that it is not enough (there should have been 8 pieces, in fact, only the second was completed). The pace of production of power plants is also sad so far.

Quote: Flood

It seems with the Lada 677 the main problems are solved

What did VNEU do? In general, it is still too early to talk about the completion of this project.

Quote: Flood

UDC laid down? So when they will be.

Exactly. Severodvinsk was laid down in 1993, and commissioned in 2014, and even then with difficulty.

Quote: Flood

Upgrading 1155 and 1164? Cat tears.

Only one 1155 was modernized, and then only halfway (say, the antediluvian torpedo armament was not updated). I have not heard about the modernization of 1164, only about current repairs.

Quote: Flood

Let's cry together how bad everything is.

Crying is not necessary, but, alas, there is really not much reason for joy.

[Flooding]

Quote: Kalmar

"Buyans" are a specific product, more for landowners.

sorry. stumbled over this wonderful phrase. I decided that I could not master it further.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Flood

sorry. stumbled over this wonderful phrase. I decided that I could not master it further.

Don't worry, reading is not an easy discipline)

Let me explain: "Buyans" were built as a clever way to bypass the INF Treaty and get hold of medium-range missiles almost on land. They took them and put them on a simple boat that can walk along rivers and formally does not violate the INF Treaty. The landowners like it: there is a launcher almost at hand, capable of throwing a rocket for one and a half to two thousand kilometers. The fleet does not really need these ships because of the sour seaworthiness, symbolic air defense and no PLO.

[Flooding]

Quote: Kalmar

Don't worry, reading is not an easy discipline.

The quintessence of wisdom.
I leave you without any remorse.

[bayard]

Quote: Kalmar

The thesis about equipping the 971x with new launchers for missiles generally raises a lot of doubts: a very serious alteration of the boat will be required.

No one plans to alter the 971 project for new launchers, they were initially capable (and armed) of launching the "Granat" missile launcher (daddy "Caliber") through torpedo tubes. And in the "big TA" for heavy torpedoes, it is quite possible to charge the "Onyx" too ... but about such a launch of the "Onyx" has not yet been heard.
But the reduction of launchers on the modernized 949 pr. From the promised 72 to 48 ... is upsetting. But here the weight load apparently played a role - three "Calibers" instead of one "Granite" can be installed, but three "Onyx" and even more "Zircon" are unlikely. Weights ...
Only this modernization was extremely late, it had to start 10 years ago. Or, at worst, since 2014, they would already have in service at least half of their park in a new look.
And now you may not be in time.
Yes, and the resource of old ships is not the same, it is unlikely that the entire fleet will be modernized - a time factor.

[Kalmar]

Quote: bayard

And in the "big TA" for heavy torpedoes, it is quite possible to load the "Onyx"

Wait a minute, Onyx claims a diameter of 670mm. The TA has a caliber of 650 mm. Plus some more gap should remain. Something doesn't add up.

Quote: bayard

Only this modernization was too late, it should have been started 10 years ago

This is yes. There is a risk of getting a sad result: we will spend a lot of time and money on modernization, and then the boats go through nothing - and already to write off. Or even to the end of this upgrade will not live.

[bayard]

Quote: Kalmar

Wait a minute, Onyx claims a diameter of 670mm. The TA has a caliber of 650 mm. Plus some more gap should remain. Something doesn't add up.

Yes, I didn’t insist. Moreover, no one stuttered about such an option at all ... until today, and the author of this article ...
"Shchukam-B" and "Calibers" are quite enough. In the anti-ship version, it is possible to use a modification with a supersonic 2nd stage (it was only provided for submarines), against submarines at long range - a PLUR with a torpedo. Along the shore - the classic "Caliber" ... or "Caliber-M" from a large TA, because this caliber is just 650 mm. promised.
But it’s time to think about new MAPLs, because we do not have any R&D in this regard at all.

Quote: Kalmar

There is a risk of getting a sad result: we will spend a lot of time and money on modernization, and then the boats go through nothing - and already to write off. Or even to the end of this upgrade will not live.

We have had problems with ship repair since Soviet times - a chronic shortage of ship repair facilities ... and funding for timely repairs.

[Grits]

Quote: bayard

But the reduction of launchers on the upgraded 949 pr. From the promised 72 to 48 ... is upsetting

It is even more upsetting when you imagine how many "Calibers" could be shoved into the "Shark". But they decided to cut them ...

[bayard]

Quote: Gritsa

It is even more upsetting when you imagine how many "Calibers" could be shoved into the "Shark".

Yes, there it was possible to ram in two tiers in each mine great.
But old.
And the modernization of one such is more expensive than the construction of a new "Borey-K"
Just to cut such beauty ... ... wrong . Of these, museums could be made (3 pieces left) in different cities, pulled ashore and put on display by an admiring public! Excursions to drive there, pionErov ... sorry - the Young Gravites, Suvorov / Nakhimovites, cadets and other citizens. Lessons of courage on board to conduct ... and just lessons - she's great .
... There are rides there ... a themed hotel with a sauna and a swimming pool ...
It seems like we have capitalism ... but everything is kind of stupid ... put one in St. Petersburg ... around him, tourists will lead round dances ... around the clock ... against its background rock concerts will be held ... wedding corteges will be drawn to him, with the newlyweds ... and the kids will be so happy ... ... how much ice cream and cotton candy will eat under its shadow ...
But capitalism in Russia is dull and unpatriotic.
Alas.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Gritsa

It is even more upsetting when you imagine how many "Calibers" could be shoved into the "Shark". But they decided to cut them ...

What's the point? The submarine's combat effectiveness is determined not only by the number of missiles on board. Stealth, maneuverability, reliability, the capabilities of the SAC - all this also plays a very important role, otherwise the boat simply will not live to see the possibility of firing missiles. The "Sharks" with these moments was not very (including due to the monstrous size).

[George 2]

Stealth, maneuverability, reliability, the capabilities of the SAC - all this also plays a very important role, otherwise the boat simply will not live to see the possibility of firing missiles. The "Sharks" with these moments was not very

What plays a role is correct, but what "Sharks" did not have so much with these moments, where did you get it? Have a personal experience of detecting and assessing the distance of these ships at sea? So, the detection range of these boats, in fact, did not exceed several units of kbt. SAC with an antenna 4m in diameter. 1kbt-185,2 meters. So don't write about what you don't know.

[Zaurbek]

They've been writing about this for a long time. And, as it were, there is no other way out. Relatives of the Kyrgyz Republic are already atavism. The main anti-ship missile is Onyx, it is serial ..... Caliber is serial .... the question is that somehow it was not enough there was placed instead of "large" Granites.

[Alex777]

Of course, I don't have exact data, but I can assume that the 949AM's armament will consist of Calibers-M with a range of about 5 km and Zircons.
Both missiles will have a decent weight (from 2,5 to 5 tons, or even more).
Therefore, in terms of mass, it turns out 2 instead of 1 Granite (48), and not 3 instead of 1 (72) conventional Caliber (up to 2 tons), as was estimated earlier.
If all 8 949A are upgraded, then there will be tremendous striking power.
But, as far as I am aware, it was decided to confine ourselves to the modernization of 4.
The Boreyev project with CD is, in my opinion, much more promising.
And the new generation will be, and superior in all characteristics.
It is also more convenient to operate and maintain similar APRKs.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alex777

But, as far as I am aware, it was decided to confine ourselves to the modernization of 4.

But really, it will be very cool if they upgrade 2

[Alex777]

But really, it will be very cool if they upgrade 2

IMHO, it will be great if they start building Borei-M with CD.
No matter how much you modernize the old, you will not get the new.
The only exception, in my opinion, is 1144.2.
The cost of modernization and ownership also matters.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alex777

IMHO, it will be great if they start building Borei-M with CD.

A very unreasonable idea, honestly. SSGNs are of no use to us at all now, we need normal PLATs of reasonable prices

[Alex777]

So Boreas cost less than Ash.
And the functions of a cruiser with a CD will be able to perform better than 949AM.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alex777

So Boreas cost less than Ash.

You need to build what you need. I repeat, we need PLAT now, not CD carriers, expensive or not so

[Alex777]

I repeat, we need PLAT now, not CD carriers, expensive or not so

What is needed is determined by the tasks. Including promising. The construction time of the ships is considerable.
Are you sure that your idea of ​​them is 100% true?
Instead of PLATs, they are now building MAPLs.
The States, for example, added a new compartment to Virginias and increased the VI to almost 10 tons. And all for the sake of an additional amount of cruise missiles on the MAPL.
I am aware of the opinions of your group of like-minded people. But I see the situation a little differently.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alex777

Are you sure that your idea of ​​them is 100% true?

Absolutely

Quote: Alex777

Instead of PLATs, they are now building MAPLs.

So the tasks are different, for us and for them :)))
The Americans have on the agenda - actions off our coast, for which they have a large number of modern nuclear submarines. Our task is to somehow resist them there, and several expensive and very large Ash trees will not be able to solve this task by definition.

Quote: Alex777

The States, for example, added a new compartment to Virginias and increased the VI to almost 10 tons. And all for the sake of an additional amount of cruise missiles on the MAPL.

I agree, but everything should be viewed in context. And the context is as follows - having built and laid 28 Virginias with 12 PU for Tomahawks, the next series was made with 24 PU. And the next "block" can again go with a reduced amount of PU.
That is, when the Americans receive 3 MPSs of the latest generation for one of our SSGNs (not counting the improved moose), then they will add a little more KR - in the next series :)))

Quote: Alex777

I am aware of the opinions of your group of like-minded people. But I see the situation a little differently.

Here you are completely in your own right. I expressed my argumentation, but to accept it or not, it's up to you

[Alex777]

I agree, but everything should be viewed in context. And the context is this - having built and laid 28 Virginias with 12 PU for Tomahawks, the next series was made with 24 PU.

A few small clarifications:
- Block V has not 24, but 40 PU KR. Reminds me very much of Ash.
- The appearance of Zircon and similar CDs in our country and in the United States radically changes the situation.
- I agree with you that our PLO must be strengthened in every possible way. And modern aircraft, and ships, and boats with VNEU.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alex777

- Block V has not 24, but 40 PU KR.

Yes, quite right, wrong

Quote: Alex777

Reminds me very much of Ash.

Well, the ash tree is primarily against the fleet, but the virgin is only against the coast.

Quote: Alex777

- The appearance of Zircon and similar CDs in our country and in the United States radically changes the situation.

And what will change? :))) The main threat to our SSBNs is MAPLs and PLO aircraft, hypersonic weapons do not work against them. We had superiority in missile weapons in the 80s, and lasted 20 years, when we had supersonic Basalts and Granites and the US Navy did not have the means to intercept them reliably. And nothing has changed.

Quote: Alex777

- I agree with you that our PLO must be strengthened in every possible way. And modern aircraft, and ships, and boats with VNEU.

Well, here, signif icantly, consensus

[Alex777]

The main threat to our SSBNs is MAPL and PLO aircraft

It is impossible not to agree. They are powerless against planes and PLATS.

We had superiority in missile weapons in the 80s, and lasted 20 years, when we had supersonic Basalts and Granites and the US Navy did not have the means to intercept them reliably. And nothing has changed.

First, the appearance of Basalts and Granites, at one time, forced the AUG to keep a certain distance.
Secondly, at that time it was not planned to shoot such missiles, costing a fighter, at land targets.
And they even plan to shoot Zircon at ground targets, such as decision-making centers, missile defense, etc.
And not only in wartime.
So there are changes.

Well, here, signif icantly, consensus

Without fail!

[Nick Casey]

And ,, Khabarovsk ,, with ,, Belgorod ,, does not suit you? The newest, unparalleled in the world !!!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

And ,, Khabarovsk ,, with ,, Belgorod ,, does not suit you?

Are you kidding me? :)))))) No, they don't

[Nick Casey]

What fleet do you command?)

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

"For what purpose are you interested, dear man?" (from)

[Nick Casey]

If you were in command of the fleet (that is, if you had all the information), then I would understand. And sometimes it’s funny to read “guardians” for the RF Armed Forces, but they do not even have any reliable data. Apart from information from open sources. It's just that this data is classified as secret. And no matter how puffed up anyone, he will know exactly as much as he is supposed to. And if he knows a little more, he will be silent. Otherwise the term.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

And sometimes it’s funny to read “guardians” for the RF Armed Forces, but they do not even have any reliable data.

And what reliable data I do not have? :)))

Quote: Nick Casey

It's just that this data is classified as secret.

I do not discuss religious issues, we have a free country. Believe what you want. Believe that the media are lying to you, but in fact we have 100500 aircraft carriers and a billion submarines in service, for example.
It's so convenient to believe that everything is really good, they just carefully hide it from us.

[Nick Casey]

I do not mean the number of ships, but the quality of defense. It is clear that the aircraft carrier cannot be hidden, but no one will tell you the general capabilities of the Armed Forces and, in particular, the fleet.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

but no one will tell you the general capabilities of the Armed Forces and, in particular, the fleet.

General opportunities directly "follow" from private ones. If you seriously think that our Yaseni-M are so perfect that they can single-handedly withstand 4-5 enemy atomarines - as I said, the issues of religion are sacred to me. If you think that it is possible to mold an invincible underwater killer from the old project 949a, and you are not even embarrassed that "Khabarovsk" is being made for the GUGI, and not for the Navy, which, as it were, DIRECTLY indicates that this is not a multifunctional ship - I can only shrug my shoulders. Etc.

[Nick Casey]

Yes, I understand that you cannot be persuaded. After reading a couple of books, you think you know everything. But this is far from the case. You will see it someday.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

Yes, I understand that you cannot be persuaded. After reading a couple of books, you think you know everything.

Believe me, in more than 30 years of studying the fleet, I have read a little more than 2 books

Quote: Nick Casey

But this is far from the case. You will see it someday.

You're right. I still sometimes embellish reality - precisely because I'm not a pro and I don't always know the real state of affairs

[Nick Casey]

The point is not whether you are a pro or not, but how much you know about the state of the RF Armed Forces today.
For example, tell me the exact number in service with the KR Caliber, the Onyx anti-ship missile system, the Ka52, MI 28, MI 24 helicopters, the SU 30, 34,35 aircraft, etc. Only the numbers are not from open sources. But the real ones.
And also indicate the exact performance characteristics, not from Wikipedia.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

For example, tell me the exact number in service with the KR Caliber, the Onyx anti-ship missile system, the Ka52, MI 28, MI 24 helicopters, the SU 30, 34,35 aircraft, etc. Only the numbers are not from open sources. But the real ones.

Believe it or not, the real numbers are contained in open sources. Enterprises have no practice of hiding production volumes from actual ones. The same Su-35s were produced under two contracts, and produced 98 units. TTx can be viewed on the manufacturer's website knaaz.org
or on dry sukhoi.org

Quote: Nick Casey

And also indicate the exact performance characteristics, not from Wikipedia.

This is the exact data. Do not think that in fact they are some other :))))
Secrecy works a little differently. Some of the equipment of the same Su-35 has secret performance characteristics that cannot be disclosed. But general performance characteristics - such as speed, engine thrust, etc. etc. they are not secret and are completely subject to disclosure.

[Nick Casey]

I can agree with you on su 35 if you know not from Wikipedia. But besides su35, there is a bunch of equipment that I have not even named. At least the same rab. Well, or tell me the exact number of issued mi 28 or approximately at least

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

But besides su35, there is a bunch of equipment that I have not even named. At least the same rab.

Of course. But I'm talking about the fleet.

Quote: Nick Casey

Well, or tell me the exact number of issued mi 28 or approximately at least

It is necessary to search / count it, helicopters are not included in the range of my interests enough to track releases on them.

[Nick Casey]

“Enterprises have no practice of concealing production volumes from actual ones.
So why didn't you find the data on the helicopters? It is clear that you are of little interest, etc. , but to understand the combat readiness of the Russian Armed Forces, this is the necessary information.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

So why didn't you find the data on the helicopters?

Because I wasn’t looking. You can do it yourself if you are interested :)

Quote: Nick Casey

but to understand the combat readiness of the Russian Armed Forces, this is the necessary information.

I am not interested in the Armed Forces in general, but in the fleet, and, to a much lesser extent, in the Aerospace Forces. And helicopters are army aviation, and it is not easy to count them there - at the same time, a number of contracts are in force for the supply of new helicopters and the modernization of old ones. Here you have to climb the sources, this is not an hour of work. But I don't need that.

[Nick Casey]

The fleet cannot be considered separately. The picture should be complex.
At least evaluate the capabilities of the military-industrial complex for the production and repair of helicopters per year. How many pieces do you think? Mi28

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Nick Casey

The fleet cannot be considered separately. The picture should be complex.

To assess the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces as a whole - no doubt. But it is possible to assess the state of the fleet without this, assessing its composition and capabilities in relation to the tasks facing it.

Quote: Nick Casey

At least evaluate the capabilities of the military-industrial complex for the production and repair of helicopters per year. How many pieces do you think? Mi28

So "in my opinion" - there is no such thing, I do not even have approximate data. As I say, I was not interested. And digging for a long time

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

it will be great if they start building Borei-M with CD.

Such "Boreas" under the letter "K" were announced by Shoigu, but for some reason they laid two more Borei-M buildings. Maybe the project is not ready, maybe there are other considerations and the "Zircon" that has not yet been adopted for service ... and the "Caliber-M" has not even been lit up in trials yet. Perhaps that's why the tightening.
But it would be very good to capitalize and modernize the entire remaining fleet of 971 Ave. - we have no MAPLs, except for them, and new ones are not even heard in the project.

[Alex777]

Such "Boreas" under the letter "K" were announced by Shoigu, but for some reason they laid two more Borei-M buildings

When the required number of strategists is built, the line of other modifications will come up, IMHO.

[bayard]

Initially, it was believed that 8 "Boreis" would be quite enough ... but now they decided to bring it to 10.
But I would rather have extra Borei-Ks on duty under the American coast with Zircon and Caliber-M than Borei-M in the bastion, at gunpoint of enemy MAPLs.
And it is generally more reasonable (in our case) to keep strategic warheads on land-based ICBMs. In the depths of its territory, under reliable protection and in PERMANENT readiness. And not only during military service at sea.

[Alex777]

Initially, it was believed that 8 "Boreis" would be quite enough ... but now they decided to bring it to 10.

The states of 12 Colombia have planned. So we also have options ...

But I would rather have extra Borei-Ks on duty under the American coast with Zircon and Caliber-M than Borei-M in the bastion, at gunpoint of enemy MAPLs

"Borei-K" on duty under the American coast with "Zircon" and "Caliber-M" is good.
When the GDP offered the flight time to calculate something like this and meant, IMHO.
Why don't you like Borey-M on duty near the American coast?
By the way, the cost of "Borey-K" should be lower than "Borey-M".
I wonder how to distinguish between "partners" will be when necessary?

And it is generally more reasonable (in our case) to keep strategic warheads on land-based ICBMs. In the depths of its territory, under reliable protection and in PERMANENT readiness

Everyone whose coordinates are constant and known - can be destroyed. Alas.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

Anyone whose coordinates are constant and known can be destroyed. Alas.

It is still necessary to be able to - while they reach, ours will already respond with counter-counter.
Again, no one ruled out mobile deployment. Whether on trains or on a wheeled chassis.
But at sea, having taken our SSBN for "weapon escort", it is possible not to have time for more than one launch ... 16 ICBMs + nuclear submarine cruiser goat the tail from one torpedo.
It's a shame to go for such an exchange ...

[Alex777]

It is still necessary to be able to - while they reach, ours will already respond with counter-counter.

It's not about a standard ICBM salvo. To this - yes, it is easy to answer.
Means of destruction of mine launchers are actively developing. And the INF Treaty was not just covered by the Americans, and the hypersonic one is on its way. From space, there are options ...

But at sea, having taken our SSBN for "weapon escort", it is possible not to have time for more than one launch ... 16 ICBMs + nuclear submarine cruiser goat the tail from one torpedo.
It's a shame to go for such an exchange ...

And do not go for such an exchange.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

And do not go for such an exchange.

So I don’t want to. To place all ICBMs in Siberia under reliable cover, and to upgrade all Borei to Borei-K and all along with the enemy shores, together with Ash and 949 etc. modernized. This will be beauty. There is no need to keep any forces in the "bastions", all surface forces too - under enemy shores, based in Venezuela and Cuba - to protect our SSGNs, to provide cover from air threats and to target enemy ships.
Isn't it great?
The enemy will have to abandon all his surface forces in order to search for our SSGNs under his coast. There are two or three such SSGNs under each bank and here is the same pistol at the temple of the aggressor, which Gorshkov so successfully implemented in his time.
at the same time, all the submarine forces are on free hunting and combat patrols at a dagger's distance, the surface fleet too - roam the Caribbean and in the Pacific Ocean, catching up with fear of the enemy. Than clearly demonstrates its usefulness and necessity.
And under their native shore, corvettes and diesels will cope.
... And immediately there is a reason to talk about future cruise and hypersonic missiles in Europe and Japan, about American bases around our perimeter, about the provision of nuclear bombs by penguins to their NATO allies and training their pilots to use them ...
Beauty
And it will be more fun for our guys in the Navy to serve right away - with a base in Cuba and Venezuela. There are girls, sea, palm trees ... WARM ... and icebreakers don't need to chop off ships ...
And most importantly - immediately (after the modernization of all SSBNs in SSGNs), there will be enough for submarine services. A couple of Boreis and the same number of Ashes from both coasts can be kept permanently in forward deployment areas.
And threaten.
2 x 112 + 2 x 50 = 324 KR ("Zircon" and "Caliber-M") for each bank ... this is GOOD!
And that's not counting the old 949 Ave. and the multipurpose 971 Ave. ... ho-ro-sho.
And the service will immediately become more fun.

... And ICBMs from fabulous Siberia will strengthen the position of our Fleet in the world's oceans. Including dismounted "Bulava", which will carry the database on a PERMANENT basis, and not from exit to exit ... And the calculations will serve on solid ground, breathe fresh frosty air and eat dumplings.
Good .
The fleet is at sea, the missiles are on the database. What else is needed for true HAPPINESS.

[K298rtm]

I am embarrassed to ask (well, excuse the pensioner's grandfather for the naive question): Why do you think that the Borei-K is on duty near the American coast with the Zircon and Caliber-M aviation dominates)?

[bayard]

So she (anti-submarine aviation) and flies into our bastions, who will stop her, when our base airfields are far away (time for reaction). But if our missile carriers (SSBN) are "under the enemy's shore (even 500 - 1000 km. From it), then even one such will pull off so many anti-submarine forces on its search ... and will be a very sensitive" pistol at the aggressor's temple. " there should be at least 3 of them (including "Ash") in each of the two oceans washing the North American continent.
Moreover, the forces of the surface fleet, freed from services in the "bastions", will be able to support our forces underwater in the same waters, illuminating the air and surface situation for submariners, giving target designation, carrying out "tracking with weapons" of the enemy.
And the number of delivered ammunition from "Borey-K" will be more - up to 112 carriers and warheads on each.
And it is even better because the number of APs capable of reaching the enemy's territory (the enemy called himself an enemy, so no offense here) at least doubles at once, because the Bulavas will simply be transferred to ground carriers and will become ordinary ICBMs carrying a constant (!) combat duty, and not from campaign to campaign.
And all this without violating international treaties.
And even if we violate (denounce) any, it’s not scary - the Americans are out of so many.
In addition, there are much more places in the ocean for patrolling (and more places) than in our "bastions". And if we put all the Ash, Borei-K and modernized 949 Ave., on a rotational basis, together with the upgraded 971 Ave., we will be able to create a very serious operational tension already on the enemy's shores if we put into service in forward-based areas. Approximately 3 SSGNs and a pair of submarines in each of the oceans.
The entire complex of modernization works can be implemented within 10 years. During this time, a new surface fleet will be built (22350 and 22350M for the far and ocean zones), which, relying on bases in Venezuela and Cuba, will be able to support our submarine forces on the front lines.
Why are such measures desirable and necessary?
Because in the coming years, the United States is going to deploy its hypersonic and CD in Europe and Southeast Asia. And this is the answer that will be the most rational and painful for the United States. The Yaseni-M planned for such services will not be sufficient to create and designate a really serious threat to the territory of the United States itself.
Refusing the naval component of the strategic nuclear forces, we kill three birds with one stone:
- transferring Bulava to ground vehicles, we increase their operational readiness for an immediate retaliatory strike (constant alert mode),
- without laying new ships, we sharply increase the number of hypersonic and missile carriers capable of serving in forward deployment areas, reduce the flight time to targets, get a tool for cutting down the entire US missile defense system in a matter of minutes - before the ICBM approach, create a regime of very strong operational stress for the fleet The United States near our waters and provide a massive launch of hundreds of missile launchers across the United States,
- we release the forces of the surface fleet from the protection of SSBNs in the "bastions" for services in DM and OZ.
... As you can see, there are actually much more than three hares, but I tried to group them into flocks.
I understand that the proposal is bold and breaks many established patterns, but we have no other way than "asymmetric".
Difficulties will also be, and considerable, but the expected result is worth it.
True, this requires a commander-in-chief of the level of Gorshkov and the highest political power AT LEAST at the level of the young Leonid Ilyich.

[gig334]

Our peace and quiet is still guarded for the most part by Soviet weapons, if not for it, the language of liberalism and promises would hardly have saved us from war. The surface fleet is still in trouble, it can be seen. When the American destroyer invaded the Russian territorial waters near Kaliningrad, we even had nothing to drive, he swam and left himself, here it is, there is an acute shortage of ships. The Su-57 cannot even make two pieces a year, but the urapatriots have already put all of them with zircons, which are not yet in service, they have bombarded them with calibers, which are produced at 100 pieces a year. This is despite the fact that the USA has about 7000 axes. The aircraft-carrying cruiser was almost ditched if it were not for Soviet strategic bombers, nuclear submarines (they still constitute the main atomic backbone), Soviet nuclear weapons, we would have been destroyed long ago. China won 72 corvettes built in 8 years, think about these dates and figures. You can list all this for a long time. In general, I agree with you, some grandiose plans, of which none have been completed, or partially, or in any way. Answered the first comment minus.

[Maz]

Earlier, the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov, said that the service life the most numerous in the Russian fleet, the multipurpose nuclear submarines of projects 949A and 971 will be doubled, they will be rearmed.
Caliber cruise missiles are designed to destroy targets on the ground, Onyx missiles are anti-ship missiles. The Zircon hypersonic missiles are now undergoing a testing phase. Their speed is up to Mach 8,5 (more than 10 thousand kilometers per hour), the range is up to 500 kilometers.
"Project 971 and 949A multipurpose nuclear submarines after modernization will be armed with" Caliber "," Onyx "and" Zircon ". Containers for these missiles are universal", - said the interlocutor of the agency.
Now these nuclear submarines are routinely armed with mine and torpedo weapons.
As for the newest Project 885 Yasen submarines, standard carriers of Caliber and Onyx, they will also be additionally equipped with Zircon, the source said.
Non-nuclear submarines of Project 971 were built from 1976 to 1992, Project 949A - from 1985 to 1996.
Project 885 submarines are being built now. The lead boat "Severodvinsk" was put into service in 2010. The first serial submarine "Kazan" of project 885A will enter the combat strength of the fleet in 2021. A total of ten boats of this project are to be built.

[Charik]

Yes they will tell there

[Mountain shooter]

This is a serious increase. Good luck to the shipbuilders. Is it really that much power can be added to the same ship composition? If possible, almost doubling ... And also "Zircons", with which the enemy does not yet know what to do. Fine.

[Flooding]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

If possible, almost doubling.

by the number of goals, but not by the weight of the salvo
I wonder if the upgrade will affect other systems?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Flood

by the number of goals, but not by the weight of the salvo

There is also a concept, kinetic energy. "Zircon" even without a warhead, with its own speed, can cause considerable destruction. Its speed is twice as high as that of a BOPS tank gun ...
And the special ammunition warhead weighs quite a bit. in short, a big hello to the adversaries.

[Flooding]

I did not evaluate
without a doubt this is the strengthening of the submarine's weapons and the expansion of its capabilities
I commented on your words about doubling

[Kalmar]

Quote: Flood

by the number of goals, but not by the weight of the salvo

The weight of the salvo is not the only characteristic. The probability of hitting, say, plays an equally important role. To hit 200 kg of warheads is still better than not to hit 500 kg)) And an increase in the number of missiles in a salvo seriously complicates the work of the air defense of the attacked ship; as a result, there is a greater chance that at least one missile will break through it.

[Flooding]

Quote: Kalmar

The weight of the salvo is not the only characteristic.

you keep showing your carelessness

Quote: Flood

I did not evaluate
without a doubt this is the strengthening of the submarine's weapons and the expansion of its capabilities
I commented on your words about doubling

[Shadow shooter]

And how many of these submarines are in service now?

[Flooding]

Quote: Shadow shooter

And how many of these submarines are in service now?

In the LiveJournal of Alexander Shishkin you can find this information. Regularly updates the summary tables for the composition of the fleet
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

971 - 4 units in service, 971 units for upgrading 4М, and 1 more unit just for repair (without upgrades)
949A - 5 in service and 2 in modernization (about Chelyabinsk, though, I'm not sure)
885 - 1 unit (Severodvinsk) in the ranks

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

949A - 5 in service and 2 in modernization (about Chelyabinsk, though, I'm not sure)

In formation 4, at the Pacific Fleet only Omsk and Tomsk are on the move, Tver is awaiting repairs, Chelyabinsk is in the water area of ​​the plant, Irkutsk is being sluggishly modernized.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

"Tver" is waiting for renovation

Thanks, I didn't know. On the dipstorm, the last message about her from 2019

[Bashkirkhan]

There are only two shops on Zvezda, one for Irkutsk and another for 971 Magadan. Until they are returned to service, "Tver" and "Chelyabinsk" will not begin to repair them. Dipstorm is a very good source, but sometimes there is not enough information there.

[Sailor]

And what about the pr. 945 and 945A, these are eternal boats, they are no worse than the pr. 971?

[Bashkirkhan]

945 will be disposed of in the near future unambiguously, while they decide about titanium, who is more profitable to sell, 945A finish off the resource and by 2025 they are also going to be recycled.

[Sailor]

It is a pity that Project 945A is the most beautiful in my opinion, and a beautiful weapon is always formidable! And titanium is practically eternal, I don't think that pr.971 is quieter and less noticeable than pr.945.

[Bashkirkhan]

Last year, the first 30A celebrated its 945th anniversary. Under such circumstances, an extension of 5 years and disposal with a clear conscience.

[Sailor]

You want to say that Project 971 is younger, as far as I remember, the first building of Project 971 entered service in the distant 84th.

[Bashkirkhan]

Of the 14 representatives of Project 971, 3-4 are now in service, while those built in the 80s have been disposed of or awaiting cutting. Their time is running out too. More or less in age from the leopards "Cheetah", "Vepr" and "Samara".

[sub307]

"... will receive cruise and anti-ship missiles." ??? Pleases "I" between the winged anti-ship, the range increases by 100%!

[novel66]

I'm ashamed to ask - what about the torpedoes?

[sub307]

Read about 949pr. there is ... https: //topwar.ru/19696-atomnye-podvodnye-lodki-s-krylatymi-raketami-proekt-949-granit-oscar-i-class.html
And if not lazy - google it yourself.

[novel66]

these torpedoes are already groaning here

[sub307]

Yes, yes, if "here" is a sentence. Sofa "eksperdy" rule!

[2 Level Advisor]

Project 391 nuclear multipurpose submarines of the Pacific Fleet K-295 "Bratsk" (right) and K-971 "Samara" (left), loaded onto the transport ship Transshelf of the Dutch company Doskwise for transportation by the Northern Sea Route to Severodvinsk to the head enterprise JSC "Ship Repair Center" "Zvezdochka" for repair and modernization. Kamchatka, 23.08.2014 (c) Igor Kravchuk / express-kamchatka.com

This is NEWS about how since 2014, for example, these boats have not yet begun to be modernized?
Yes, out of all 971, 949 a couple of nuclear submarines have been upgraded, but is this NEW?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

This is NEWS about how since 2014, for example, these boats have not yet begun to be modernized?

It's time to dispose of 971 "Bratsk", the steamer is more than 30 years old, for which it still needs modernization, if 10 years after it is on pins and needles. Since 2014 it has been in the water area of ​​the plant.

[Oleg Aviator]

And what in return? This is a finished boat. It is expensive and time consuming to build a new one. Although .... If it's just that yes. There is little sense.

[xorek]

Serious stuff ..! They are still on top, but if they are still modernizing .. Well, God forbid!

[Vladimir1155]

it is very important to support the submarine fleet, including through repairs and upgrades of existing boats

[Oleg Aviator]

It's good. 949x, if memory serves 10 in combat. Not a bad deterrent for AUG lovers

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Oleg Aviator

It's good. 949x if memory serves 10 in combat strength

5

[Oleg Aviator]

It was 10, including Kursk. There are five left. Poorly.

[donavi49]

Well, the AUG has a contour and a veil of its own and friendly submarine forces.

For example, in Vilyuchinsk there are Omsk, Tver and Tomsk - however, it is difficult to go out into the ocean without the support and attention of partners, even without a special period. They will be pressed into a special one right in Avacha Bay by all sorts of Virginias and Soryu from a neighboring topic.

They can provide an exit - 3 IPC 1124, which on the go do not hear anything at all because of the 112 cylinder engines that have no analogues, and from the stationary it is not a fact that they will hear a 3 ++ / 4 generation boat. For they were made at 2 + / 3, and since that period, no modernization of the IPC was carried out along the SAC line (and in general, too, at most what thread an analog post will be replaced with a stand with a monitor).

Kuzbass, the only SSNS of the Pacific Fleet, can also provide an exit. However, it still needs to withdraw the naval component of the strategic nuclear forces into the ocean. And then he hunts Ohio. The firefighting dispatch of Bratsk and Samara for quick repairs in 2014 ended in complete failure, real work has not yet begun (like in 2020 there was news about preparatory work on one of the boats).

Murikantsy can put 10-12 atomic hunters 3 + / 4 generations + forces of allies in the veil on Vilyuchu.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: donavi49

Kuzbass, the only SSNS of the Pacific Fleet, can also provide an exit.

You're not right. See the publication in Krasnaya Zvezda.
http://redstar.ru/garant-stabilnosti-v-aziatsko-tihookeanskom-regione/
Quote "And here the nuclear submarine Ryazan distinguished itself, which moved from the category of missile submarines to a new quality - a multipurpose nuclear submarine, having received a new life, a new history. As a result, the crew of the submarine won the prize of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy." Krasnaya Zvezda, not the yellow media, and the vice-admiral says quite unambiguously "has moved from the category of missile submarines to a new quality - a multipurpose nuclear submarine" (remark: the service life of the R-29R missiles has already expired). Thus, a 40-year-old BDR with a museum GAK and weak torpedo armament has become a multipurpose nuclear submarine and now there are two multipurpose nuclear powered submarines at the Pacific Fleet with Kuzbass !!!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Very funny.
EMNIP under the GPV 2011-2020 program, it was planned that this modernization will be 4 "Anteya" and 4 "Shchuki-B" (previously there were more ambitious plans, but ...). In fact, either 1 or 2 "Anteya", "Irkutsk" and, possibly (but not exactly), "Chelyabinsk" are currently undergoing modernization, while the commissioning of "Irkutsk" is "under favorable circumstances" in 2023.
The situation with Shchukam-B is a little better - 4 ships are being modernized since 2011-14, they are being modernized, modernized, but they are not being modernized in any way. The leopard, which was put for repairs in 2011, seems to be able to return to the fleet this year, the rest - Wolf and Samara, approximately in 2023, about Bratsk - nothing is heard.
In other words, the modernization plans have failed with a deafening crash, but today they are issued for the achievement

[cniza]

According to the source, the service life of multipurpose submarines of projects 949A and 971 will be doubled

To the delight of our "partner" ...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: cniza

According to the source, the service life of multipurpose submarines of projects 949A and 971 will be doubled

From the rest. That is, if without the modernization of the boards, only for repairs, it would take another ten years, then after it it will last 20 years.
This, of course, will not please the partners, but 9 Ash and Ash-M + 2 (well, even 4) Anthea + 4 modernized Shchuki-B, that is, 15-17 more or less modern nuclear submarines, of which only 8 Ash-trees will be really modern- M versus 30 "virgins" alone by 2028 ...

[cniza]

I agree, but it's better than nothing, although I don't like this phrase ...

[Kalmar]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

9 Ash and Ash-M + 2 (well, even 4) Anthea + 4 modernized Pike-B, that is, 15-17 more or less modern nuclear submarines

And this is on condition that they are finally given normal torpedoes and PTZ, otherwise everything is completely sad.

[Your stranger]

And how will target designation go to those missiles?
How many planes or satellites will there be over the aug?
And yet, different types of drone submarines are being tested in the USA,
The weight of a 324 mm torpedo will be about 330 kg,
If you put a special tactical warhead on a torpedo, then hundreds of drone submarines can be put into service.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Stranger

And how will target designation go to those missiles?

From the onboard GAK, nowhere else

[Your stranger]

The range of action is several tens of kilometers?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Stranger

The range of action is several tens of kilometers?

Well, in some ideal conditions it can be more than 200 km, but ...

[Your stranger]

So under the aug submarines of the usa, and dookola aug their helicopters are flat

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Stranger

So under the aug submarines of the usa, and dookola aug their helicopters are flat

and in front of them are also basic PLO patrol aircraft ... that's why I say "but".

[Alexander Yarosh]

we have been hearing this tale for 20 years of getting up from our knees, most of the boats have already rusted and were written off in Bolshoy Kamen

[Petio]

971 because I know are equipped with calibers launched from a TA. There, part of the weapon system and software for working with Caliber is changing. They could have fired KR before, but with nuclear Grenades, the predecessor of the Caliber

[Tests]

A source in the defense industry complex for a RIA Novosti journalist remarkably hung long, straight, wide pasta on his ears. Not a single specific figure about the deadlines for the delivery of orders ... At the next meeting, it seems, he will tell in general phrases about the "Belgorod", since there will be a reason - the ship is already on the water for 2 years. Then, apparently, he will remember that the Balobols from the RF Ministry of Defense promised 2 "Sharks" - "Severstal" and "Arkhangelsk" to "calibrate", but the ships are still in the port of the Belomorsk naval base. By the summer, you see, the source will remember about "Losharik". And by the autumn storms, as from the pier to "Kirov", new mooring lines will be set so that the steamer does not sit on the sand of the bottom of the Nikolsky branch of the Northern Dvina, he will tell about it. By the New Year, apparently, he will tell a fairy tale that our only aircraft carrier is ready to leave the sea even tomorrow ... And the respected donavi49 is right to 202%. The departure of the ships from the berth was spoken of on "VO" 1000 and 1 times. In Severodvinsk "Onega" and "Naryan-Mar" will soon live to the point that they can be carried to the Patriot park. About the number and quality of minesweepers in the White Sea naval base - only obscenities ... No, if you read Mr. Evmenov's interview on March 19, 2021 in Krasnaya Zvezda: "... the processes of personnel training and living conditions for him, etc., are improving. etc. " and to believe - that for the submariners of the Russian Federation just the soul rejoices! And if you go to Severodvinsk st. K. Marx, and go along the street. North-West, then on the left we will see how LLC "Akvilon" erects a house, how LLC "Intekhstroy" lifted the box of the house in a year, how LLC "SMK" lifts the house, and on the right - how 5 pile fields and 2 grillages of residential buildings stood motionless for submariners for more than 5 years, and they are. If these construction sites are crossed, fortunately no one is guarding them, go through houses 2B, 2B, 2A on the street. Arctic, we will see another abandoned foundation. The "genius" military man who was in charge of the construction of this house in the Northern Fleet had already served his 6 years by a court verdict for a long time. The foundation just did not grow up and was not demolished ... Temples are apparently sweeter for the RF Ministry of Defense to build than housing outside of Moscow. On the construction of temples, it looks like on the seashore - wave after wave, rollback after rollback ...

[Evil 55]

We have no doubt that they will pass .. Interested in the question-WHEN exactly?

[Pavel57]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You need to build what you need. Us

In conditions of limited resources and time.

[Angry]

According to the source, the service life of Project 949A and 971 multipurpose submarines will be increased by twice,??? What is it like? Their estimated service life is 35 years, will they now serve 70 years? Who even writes such nonsense?

[Alexey-74]

And how many submarines remained in the "animal division"? The main part has long been decommissioned

[Charik]

Project 971 submarines receive universal launchers - what ??? It seems to be 971 without UVP, they shoot through the TA ???