Military Review

Russian-English war of 1919

126
Russian-English war of 1919

It all began with a statement by Lord Balfour in 1918:


"The new anti-Bolshevik administrations grew up under the cover of the allied forces, and we are responsible for their existence and must make efforts to support them."

November 1, 1918.

The statement had purely pragmatic reasons - the property of the British in Soviet Russia was nationalized, the former empire was rapidly disintegrating, the Civil War was gaining momentum inside ...

And in the North - furs and timber, and in the South - the abandoned oil and coal of Donbass, and in the Baltic - the birth of the Baltic limitrophes and a chance to recapture Petrograd ...

Talking in general about the naval war between England and Soviet Russia is not a matter of fasting, but, perhaps, of books.

So briefly. And about the Baltic. Fortunately, the most ambitious battles and the loudest episodes took place there. And we must start with the strength of the parties.

The forces of the parties


The Baltic Fleet was formally a formidable force, despite the loss of Finland, the Baltic States and, along with them, part of the ships. It consisted of four dreadnought battleships, two dreadnought battleships, five armored cruisers, armored decks, dozens of destroyers and submarines ...

The entrance to the Gulf of Finland was covered with powerful minefields, which turned it into a real soup with mines. Kronstadt itself is a base with a developed ship repair, huge reserves. And perfectly covered by coastal batteries.

For three years of the First World War, the Germans did not dare to storm the Marquis's puddle, and they acted carefully in the Gulf of Riga. So everything is fine on paper, but in reality ...

The steamship plant is paralyzed, the sailors first killed / dispersed most of the officers, then fled themselves. Not all, of course, but in a significant number.

To understand the state of the ships and crews, it is enough to look at the fate of the battleship Frunze (nee Poltava).


“On November 24, 1919, a fire broke out on the disabled battleship Poltava, which lay in a sludge near the wall of the Admiralty Plant, practically without a crew, due to an oversight of the watchkeepers.

On the ship prepared for winter storage, the water systems were drained, electricity had to be supplied from the shore, and only one boiler in the bow boiler room operated to heat the premises.

The stokers who worked by candlelight and kerosene lamps did not notice that fuel oil was entering the hold due to the loosely battened neck of the oil storage, and when the fuel floating on the surface of the bilge water reached the level of the boiler furnace, an extensive fire broke out in the stoker.

Despite the arrival of city firefighters, a rescue ship and two icebreakers, the fire on the ship lasted 15 hours.

The fire damaged the rooms adjacent to the bow boiler room, in particular the central artillery post and the armored pipe of wires under it, the forward conning tower, one of the power plants and the bow corridors of the electrical wires.

In addition, the central post was flooded with water, as well as the cellars of the bow tower of the GK ”.

There is no light on the ship, the stokers have forgotten or have forgotten about safety measures, during extinguishing they destroyed more equipment than the fire itself destroyed ...

The battleship was never restored. There was no one, nothing, and not for anything.

Roughly the same thing happened everywhere, it was just that there were no fires on other ships. But the submarine did not manage - all four lost Baltic "Bars" were lost after the February revolution. Yes, in addition, there is also one AG.

What to do - the fleet cannot fight without officers, strict discipline and normal supplies. And rallies with the elections of commanders only aggravate the situation. So the British had nothing to fear. Well, apart from mines and navigational hazards.

The fleet disintegrated by the end of 1918, and it posed a danger rather to its crews. The British saw their task not in sea battles with the Red fleet, but, rather, in support of the offensive of the opponents of Soviet power on land and the provision of escort of transport ships. For which the divisions of the dreadnoughts of the Grand Fleet were clearly not needed. They were not sent. And they sent:

5 light cruisers, 9 destroyers, transports with weapons and several minesweepers

under the name of the squadron of Admiral Edwin Alexander-Sinclair.

In principle, that was enough. But in the end, the British had to replenish the squadron more than once, transferring both exotic (like the Erebus monitor) and high-tech (in the form of an aircraft carrier and torpedo boats, and the latest L-type submarines).

It can be stated that the whole campaign the Baltic Fleet outnumbered the British by a head in quantitative terms. And in the same way he was losing qualitatively.

However, no decisive tasks were set for the fleets. The Soviet leadership had no one to install them. There is no need for the British, and it is politically risky.

First operations



It all started with a naval method.

I mean, at first, the British, rushing to the aid of the Estonians, lost in this very way the cruiser "Kassandra" on December 5, 1918, having driven it into a minefield (either German or Russian) near the island of Dago. The brand new cruiser went to the bottom.

And the initiative of the British was picked up by the Red Warriors, who, under the command of the revolutionary tribune Raskolnikov, handed over to the British two Novik-class destroyers - Avtroil and Spartak - safe and sound. The second (with great skill) was driven onto the stones, having organized a rally on the topic

"Should the revolutionary sailors pump out the water."

And the first surrendered to the British without a fight.

After that, the beauty and pride of the revolution without a twinge of conscience merged the position of the cruiser "Oleg". But, fortunately, he left her without permission. Actually, the entire special task force of Raskolnikov (the battleship "Andrey Pervozvanny", the cruiser "Oleg", three destroyers and the submarine "Panther" - all running in the Baltic at that moment) risked ceasing to exist, shrinking to one battleship. But lucky.

"Oleg" is gone. But Azard didn’t arrive. Due to the lack of fuel oil. The Panther's reconnaissance attempt was terminated due to a breakdown.

Then there was a subtle moment of searching for the extreme.

The operation was sanctioned and appointed to lead by Raskolnikov by a certain Lev Davydovich Trotsky. But they did not touch the fiery revolutionaries. The last was appointed "Tsar's satrap" Zarubaev, who had fought in Chemulpo on board the "Varyag" and the First World War in the Baltic.

All the same, we must pay tribute to the Bolsheviks - in addition to excluding Lev Davydovich and his protégé, serious conclusions were drawn.

It became clear that the fleet was incapable of fighting without supplies and specialists. It also takes discipline. And it turns out that rallies interfere with a military operation. And it also surfaced that the officers and the conductor were hit in the face not because of class hatred, but because one revolutionary sailor, pulling the wrong lever or throwing a cigarette butt in the wrong place, could ditch the newest ship.

They began to return personnel. To recruit former officers (whom the sailors did not finish off) and repair ships. The formation of a pillbox began - an active detachment of ships of the Baltic Fleet.

By March 1919, it included two dreadnought battleships, a dodreadnought battleship, six destroyers, seven submarines and two minesags. Rear Admiral Dmitriev, a hero of the Russo-Japanese War, was appointed to command the detachment. And the chief of staff with him was Lev Haller, who had previously commanded the battleship "Andrew the First-Called".

In a word, the fleet was revived within a year (by the spring of 1920).

The only problem was that in the spring of 1919 they had to fight with what they had.

The fighting in March-June 1919



By the spring, the British had strengthened their detachment by transferring a flotilla of submarines and a floating base. The group of cruisers also changed, which immediately affected.

On May 13, the cruiser Curacao was blown up by a mine. And he was taken to England, losing the steering wheel on the way. Fighting on land was already on the territory of Russia.

And the British were not particularly eager to fight:

“The situation and the nature of the intervention instantly change as soon as the Russian whites begin to demand from the British offensive actions against the Bolsheviks.

Here, in front of inquiries in parliament and wide publicity, you can’t get out in any way, so the English squadron becomes lethargic, the English admiral begins to dissemble and at the right moment leaves the side without a shot. "

Since England officially did not fight with Russia.

The pillbox was not much better with success.

Thus, an attempt to fire at the Estonians and Yudenich's troops with "Andrew the First-Called" ended with the refusal of five boilers and a return to the base. Most of the activity was shown by the destroyers.

In the spring, two battles between Russian and British destroyers took place without decisive results.

The first time on May 18, four British destroyers pursued the Russian "Gabriel", firing 500 shells at it and not hitting never (hello to those who like to laugh about the accuracy of the "Varyag"). But he himself slapped one of the British.

In the second battle on May 31, the destroyer Azard retreated to board her older brother, the battleship Petropavlovsk. And the destroyer Walker, which rushed after him, received a Russian shell from 47 cables, as a kind of explanation that the British exaggerated the problems of the Baltic Fleet.

And on June 4, this fact was brought to the enlightened navigators in more detail.

The attempt to attack the same Noviks with the L-55 submarine ended for the British with a miss, an attack by Russian destroyers and an explosion in their minefield. Subsequently, the boat was raised and became the only major trophy of the Russian fleet of the technical era, taken from the battle.

The Russian fleet was gaining momentum. And, despite the additions from the British:

“Since the end of June, reinforcements have begun to arrive, in particular, the cruiser Kalydon, four light cruisers, and the Vindictive airplane, on board which 22 seaplanes were based.

By the end of July, there were already 38 ships of the Royal Navy in the Baltic.

And the provision of bases in Finland.

On June 10, all the same "Gabriel" and "Azard" attacked the British destroyers in the roads at night. A fire broke out on one of the British ships.

Ours went unnoticed. The destroyers of the bunker (who did more than all his other ships) were commanded by yesterday's midshipmen of the RIF Nesvitsky and Sevastyanov.


And the two young hooligans had their full blast.

Looking ahead, Sevastyanov will not survive this war. And Nesvitsky will die in 1945 as an honored admiral ...

Kronstadt wake-up call



In the same summer, a new factor appears in the theater of operations - the British replenished their forces with torpedo boats.

Their first victim was the cruiser Oleg. Alas, there were not enough RIF warrant officers for everyone. And on "Oleg" they did not even understand what had happened, attributing everything to the attack of the submarine.

There were also a number of minor episodes with the participation of TKA of the type CMB 40 feet, but they were not given importance.

And on August 18, 1919, something happened that went into history as the Kronstadt wake-up call:

“It was supposed to use 7 torpedo boats of the 55-foot type to attack the ships of the Red Fleet. and 1 boat of the 40 ft. type, which had arrived earlier, and Aviation to support an attack of 12 aircraft based on the Vindictive airplane ...

Torpedo boat No. 1, acting in accordance with the order and not encountering booms on its way, burst into the harbor and, finding the Pamyat Azov floating base located at the Surgin dock, fired two torpedoes at it, one of which hit ...

Boat number 2, which burst into the harbor, immediately behind boat number 1, attacked the battleship "Andrey Pervozvanny", which was standing at the wall of Ust-Rogatka.

Judging by the explosion characteristic of the hit, the boat retreated, firing machine-gun fire at the ships, and then left the harbor.

Boat number 4, passing through the gate, lost the commander and 2 sailors killed. "

The same Sevastyanov and his "Gabriel" saved the fleet. Fighting off an air attack, the ship opened fire on the British TKA:

"On the British side, the loss boiled down to the following: the artillery fire of the Gabriel sunk 3 torpedo boats and one exploded on the way to the forts and soon sank."

Bottom line. Having lost four boats, the British damaged the pre-dreadnought "Andrew the First-Called" (the ancient "Memory of Azov" should not be counted for a warship converted into a floating base).

One of the boats, by the way, was raised.

On its basis, the Soviet TKA "G-5" were designed.

To summarize: the brilliantly conceived combined attack of the Air Force and TKA of the best fleet in the world brilliantly failed, thanks to the 27-year-old midshipman.

"Andrey" was not restored. And there was no need. Having two dreadnoughts against the light cruisers of the British did not have to spend money on an obsolete ship.

Last fights



The war, meanwhile, went on as usual.

And the parties exchanged losses on mines. We lost a minesweeper, the British lost a destroyer.

The British carried out air raids on Kronstadt, incurring losses, but without much success (do not count them as a success - eleven civilian casualties in the Summer Garden of the city).

We continued to plant mines and carry out submarine exits, which yielded results.

On August 31, the submarine "Panther" under the command of a young lieutenant of the RIF Bakhtin sank the destroyer "Vittoria" of the Royal Navy, opening an account of the victories of Soviet submariners. Bakhtin was 1919 years old in 25 ...

And then there was a disaster.

“On the night of October 21, the Baltic Fleet suffered a heavy loss.

Destroyers "Gabriel", "Azard", "Svoboda" and "Konstantin", which left for the Koporsky Bay to carry out a mine-barrage operation, swooped down on British mines.

"Gabriel", "Svoboda" and "Constantine" were blown up by mines and sank.

Only Azard managed to avoid the explosion and return to Kronstadt.

484 people were killed, including the entire command staff of the sunken destroyers.

Among the dead was the commander of "Gabriel" V.V. Sevastyanov ".

A disaster caused by dizziness from the success of the pillbox command.

Still, a night mine setting in the conditions of that time was a frank gamble, which could not have ended in a different way.

The last combat episode was an attempt to scare the Russian fleet with a large-caliber Erebus monitor. But it didn't work out to get anywhere. And the return fire forced the British to retreat.

Then the British quietly cleared out.

And in December 1919, the fighting on land ended.

Ended up in a draw. Petrograd held out, but the Baltics were lost for 20 years.

The sea is also a draw. Still, taking into account the state of the Baltic Fleet at the end of 1918, it is strongly in our favor.

And they forgot the war.

Among her heroes in the current Russian Federation, only Bakhtin was erected. And that was not for the battles-victories, but for the fact that he served on Solovki in the 20s.

The names of Nesvitsky and Sevastyanov, which would become the pride of any fleet and showed that even on worn-out ships and with anarchist crews not prone to discipline, Russian sailors can beat the Lady of the Seas in the tail and in the mane.

But history was sacrificed for the sake of politics. And the exploits of those sailors (for whom there were neither red nor white, but there was Russia) were first ideologized in Soviet times (they were not communists, and fought not for the International with the World Revolution, but for the Russian land) and are not particularly remembered during Russian times, because partnership and sworn Bolsheviks.

And I would like to see the frigates "Sevastyanov" and "Nesvitsky". And SSBN "Lieutenant Bakhtin".

And rightly so. And thus the "partners" would be pleased to remember, probably ...
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126 comments
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  1. iouris
    iouris 23 March 2021 18: 09
    .
    In 1919, Russia was gone.
    1. Zhan
      Zhan 23 March 2021 18: 41
      +21
      Quote: iouris
      In 1919, Russia was gone.

      And let me be curious, but where did Russia go? smile
      1. iouris
        iouris 23 March 2021 18: 43
        .
        We lost her.
        1. tatra
          tatra 23 March 2021 18: 57
          +18
          Yes, the rich and richest parasites on the neck of the poor people lost their Russia, and the people found their social state, which was taken away from them by those who praised "Russia we lost" in October 1917.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 23 March 2021 21: 09
            +5
            The rich and the parasitic have always been and will be. Drive some away there will be others, nature cannot be trampled on against it. The only thing that can be done is so that it would be beneficial for them to be strong in their state, so that they would defend it, so that it would be beneficial for them to defend it. And if this is not the case, then it will be 1917, it will be 1991 ....
            1. tatra
              tatra 23 March 2021 21: 27
              +11
              In 1917, they staged a revolution in order to throw the parasites off the neck of the people, and during Perestroika they staged a counter-revolution to put parasites on the neck of the people again.
              1. Herman 4223
                Herman 4223 23 March 2021 21: 41
                +5
                This is nature. They threw off some, others came. And for these others, the living conditions were unacceptable and they began to change it for themselves. Here you just need to accept that there are and will be such people, it is impossible to reconcile if these, as you call them, parasites work to destroy their state, in favor of another, because in this case, nothing will shine for the people except devastation and absorption by other peoples. And it's good if without physical extermination.
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 23 March 2021 19: 03
          -9
          in their big pockets? a lot of things have pocketed ... adnaka the Buryat cavalry still terrifies
        3. Ilya-spb
          Ilya-spb 23 March 2021 19: 36
          +7
          Are you Bulkokhrust?
        4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 23 March 2021 22: 21
          -2
          Quote: iouris
          We lost her.

        5. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 24 March 2021 09: 10
          +1
          Quote: iouris
          We lost her.

          Crunch crunch with tears in half!
          1. bayard
            bayard 24 March 2021 23: 58
            +4
            And I liked the idea of ​​naming the new ships after the heroes of that war.
            Good names would be for good ships.
            Well, at least for the corvettes.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 25 March 2021 03: 07
              +2
              Quote: bayard
              And I liked the idea of ​​naming new ships after the heroes of that war.
              And in terms of Angles dunk, too, nothing idea.
            2. Kayuk
              Kayuk 25 March 2021 15: 27
              +1
              I agree with the author and with you! Nice topic.
        6. Hikker
          Hikker 26 March 2021 12: 50
          +1
          Looking at the degenerate king, the semi-feudal regime, general illiteracy and the extreme place in the list of developed countries, followed by the current Qin China, it's good that we have lost this, and I hope we will never find it again
    2. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 23 March 2021 19: 08
      +16
      I would say that this was the period between when Russia (Tsarist) was no longer there and when Russia (Soviet) did not exist yet. Whoever treats the Bolsheviks, but the USSR, the RSFSR is also Russia!
      1. iouris
        iouris 23 March 2021 19: 11
        -9
        We also lost the USSR and the RSFSR.
        1. Ilya-spb
          Ilya-spb 23 March 2021 19: 38
          +1
          Sir, the Russian Federation is the legal successor of both the USSR and the Russian Empire.
          1. tatra
            tatra 23 March 2021 21: 31
            0
            What kind of successor is she, if, unlike the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, she does not have a positive history of her country, there are no great people of both the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, if both Soviet and Russian are destroyed, and foreignism is implanted everywhere?
            1. Artyom Karagodin
              Artyom Karagodin 23 March 2021 23: 12
              +9
              No great people? Are Roman Filippov, Magomed Nurbagandov, Alexander Prokhorenko great people? And the pilot Damir Yusupov, who saved the whole plane? And those who designed Avangard, Peresvet, Armata, etc. etc.?

              Believe me, our country also has enough incredibly talented poets, musicians, actors, finally. Yes, they are almost invisible against the background of Kirkor's with cuffs. Yes, the list of spheres where crooks took over everything is long. But not to celebrate them forever. Who like, but I believe that

              "... You will straighten your broken camp,
              How before you will feel like the Messiah
              And you will blossom into the envy of all enemies ...
              ... great Russia "
            2. gsev
              gsev 21 June 2021 00: 29
              0
              Quote: tatra
              What kind of successor she is, if, unlike the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, she does not have a positive history of her country

              Rescue from the Georgian genocide of Ossetians. The beautiful and bloodless return of Crimea from the clutches of modern Petliurists. A difficult but glorious war for the freedom and dignity of the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR. And labor prowess buried Obama's plans to tear the Russian economy to shreds. One of the effective vaccines against Covid was created in Russia.
          2. iouris
            iouris 24 March 2021 13: 24
            0
            Quote: Ilya-spb
            Sir, the Russian Federation is the legal successor of both the USSR and the Russian Empire.

            It's just you for some reason think so. I do not know why.
            The "assignee" received the right to pay off the debts of the USSR. And that's all.
    3. ABC-schütze
      ABC-schütze 24 March 2021 13: 39
      +5
      Your thesis is false. Both in the international legal and in the historical and cognitive context. To us, a teacher at school, at this point, tells the following ... Russia, in 1919, was not just "was." It has already been, "de jure", internationally recognized. I'm talking about the so-called. "Brest Peace". And with his conclusion, the SOVIET power of Red Russia itself was officially and internationally recognized. No matter how anyone likes it, the fact is the fact. ALL powers that have signed with Soviet Russia the so-called. The "Brest-Litovsk Peace", although they were "enemies and bastards" for ANTANTA and the USA, nevertheless, they were also OFFICIALLY recognized subjects of the then international law in force. And the fact that after the First World War they ended up in the camp of "losers", the very LEGAL FACT of the international recognition of Soviet Russia, which emerged from the First World War, after the signing of the Brest Peace Treaty, does not in any way cancel. As it does not cancel it and the "non-recognition" of Soviet Russia, on the part of the UK and the US mentioned in the article, NIGHTLY, through ILLEGAL MILITARY intervention in the RUSSIAN TERRITORY, who intervened in the INTERNAL Russian conflict (civil war) beyond the borders of the Russian, by the way, NEVER went out. This is, in short, about the "de jure" side ... And at the conceptual level, dear, if "Russia was no longer there", then with whom, excuse me, EVERYTHING, from the former ANTANTA "allies" who became invaders, to the former German invaders, who were "transformed" after November 1918, in the territories of the Baltic provinces, into all kinds of "landswears", as well as Czechs, Japanese, "volunteer armies" of all kinds (from the Baltic and Crimea, to Siberia), For almost TWO HALF YEARS unsuccessfully fought? .. And who did they then, so famously robbed, exporting Russian national wealth from the Russian North, the Crimea, the Far East and the Caspian Sea ?.
      1. iouris
        iouris 24 March 2021 14: 18
        0
        Quote: ABC-schütze
        And who were they then, so famously robbed, exporting Russian national wealth from the Russian North, the Crimea, the Far East and the Caspian ?.

        Why "robbed"? Robbed. De jure and de facto. Don't confuse "country" and "state". A country can exist even if a sovereign state is destroyed. To develop the resources of a very large country that cannot be occupied, simulacra are usually created.
        Stalin and Beria (for a while), Mao-Zedong with Jou-Enlai (the project has not yet been closed) managed to create a sovereign state in a large country, the wealth of which is being mastered by world capital.
        A country with such a small population as the Russian Federation already has very little chance of leaving the prescribed orbit. We still need to be able to realize these chances. Moreover, this case will require the adoption of very unpopular measures.
        1. ABC-schütze
          ABC-schütze 24 March 2021 15: 07
          +1
          Please, do not change the topic of discussion "along the way" ... Firstly, you yourself, having stated that "Russia in 1919 was no longer", did not use the term "country" or the term "state" ... I, without "confusing" anything, quite clearly stated that Soviet Russia, as a STATE, in 1919 was already internationally recognized. This is a simple fact. Moreover, since the Brest-Litovsk Peace, by its initial conditions and obligations imposed on the Soviet state, covered the territory of the former imperial Russia (which was both a "state" and a "country", although all this "division", by and large, is purely cabinet scholasticism, into which I will not even go deeper on this branch), which means that Soviet Russia, which fulfilled these obligations, is quite perceived as a "state". Well, and secondly, it is somehow not very clear to me why you have undertaken to oppose precisely from the last paragraph (conceptual) of my reply post? Having stated the FACT of the international legal subjectivity of Soviet Russia in 1919, I do not at all deprive it of its own JUSTIFIED right to be considered a full-fledged country. Moreover, not just a "country", but an EMPIRE. Only EMPIRE RED. For the STRATEGIC goals, the plans of the Soviet government had a GEOPOLITICAL SCOPE, although they DIFFERENTLY DIFFERENT IN TARGETS from the plans of the capitalist powers (empires) that unleashed the First World War. Moreover, the Bolsheviks were fully aware of the self-sufficient inexhaustibility of the Russian development potential (resource, human, scientific, etc.) and were not going to give it to anyone for plunder. So, I would refrain from calling their construction a "project". Moreover, the imperialist "project" collapsed already with the outbreak of the First World War. Already by the very fact of its unleashing, showing a COMPLETE and LONELESS impasse of capitalist development. By the way, not one of the "those" SYSTEM contradictions has been PRINCIPALLY eliminated to this day. And the collapse of the USSR is the result of an OPEN, ORDINARY betrayal of the ruling elite, and not of the "systemic" contradictions of socialism. But from the betrayal of the "top" leading to collapse, no one is insured and never. NONE OF THE SYSTEMS. Incl. etc. "capitalist" - "market". Well, no, it's just that, today, there is NO scientific evidence ...
          1. iouris
            iouris 24 March 2021 23: 41
            +1
            In October 1917, the Bolsheviks believed they had immediately converted to communism. Under communism, the state withers away, tk. it is a classless society. Money, the police, the army also "die off."
            The "October coup" (that is, "revolution") took place under the slogan: "a world without annexations and indemnities." The Bolsheviks refused to pay the debts of the tsarist government. This slogan and this power were not recognized by either Germany or the Entente.
            "Soviet Russia" and "Russia" in 1919 did not coincide. Soviet Russia in 1919 is not a state, but a springboard for the world revolution, which was supposed to lead to the abolition of all states. Lenin and all the old Bolsheviks considered the victory of the socialist revolution in Germany to be a necessary condition for the victory of the world revolution. Lenin saw and substantiated the possibility of building socialism in a single country later and substantiated the program of building communism, which was developed and implemented by Stalin.
            One can speak of the "recognition" of the USSR only since 1941.
            The "Red Empire" was created only in 1945.
            The USSR did not "collapse" but was dissolved. In this, the main role was played by the top of the KGB of the USSR and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - the vanguard of the party nomenklatura, the degenerated class, which became the exploiting class, the comprador bourgeoisie.
            Thus, the USSR is the stage of initial capitalist accumulation.
            However, the "domestic elites" miscalculated. They are not destined to be accepted into the world's ruling class. That's their drama and (haha) comedy.
            1. samarin1969
              samarin1969 25 March 2021 05: 52
              0
              Quote: iouris
              The USSR is the stage of initial capitalist accumulation.

              "Archival", dear. hi good ... like everything else you wrote.
            2. ABC-schütze
              ABC-schütze 25 March 2021 12: 11
              +1
              Again an attempt to get away from the main topic on your part ... And in October 1917, i.e. in the TRANSITIONAL period, the Bolsheviks could consider anything. At the same time, they clearly knew their MAIN PURPOSE (which state and for whom they want to build), but they COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD THE TOTAL LACK of "ready-made recipes" (practical and theoretical) of such construction. All the more so when literally the WHOLE WORLD LEFT against them, including those who fought to death against each other in the First World War. Besides, - a small detail, you have forgotten that the Bolsheviks, during the Civil Period, pursued a policy of "MILITARY" communism, not communism as such. And THIS WAS DONE by them ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. The policy, which already in the period starting from the 9th Congress of the RCP, began to be transformed into the future NEP. The international recognition of Soviet Russia by Germany and its allies is an international legal and historical axiom, confirmed by the very fact of the signing of the so-called. "Brest Peace". With the subsequent opening of the OFFICIAL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS of Soviet Russia with the same Germany. In Moscow, the German Ambassador Herr Mirbach OFFICIALLY "lodged". Have you forgotten? .. Alas, nothing can be "replayed" or "rethought" here. The fact of the INTERNATIONAL recognition of Soviet Russia ALREADY in 1918 will remain a FACT forever. Your personal right to count and "talk" about the fact that "You can talk about the recognition of the USSR only since 1941" remains with you. But ... And here, as my teacher constantly reminds, do not substitute themes. And do not lump, if it does not complicate, everything in "one heap", literally juggling terminology ... For the so-called "Brest Peace" in 1918, internationally recognized as the FACT OF THE CONCLUSION of the so-called "Brest Peace" in XNUMX, is Soviet Russia, it is not yet the USSR (formed a little later ...). The empire begins with the PROMOTION OF IMPERIAL GOALS and the FORMATION of the corresponding OBJECTIVES to achieve them. And I never said that Soviet Russia, during the period when the Bolsheviks came to power and the period of the forced construction of the foundations of socialism, was already "an empire." But the Soviet Power, already from the very beginning, was fully aware of the self-sufficient imperial potential of its country. And its GEOPOLITICAL scope and UNIQUE GEOPOLITICAL subjectivity of Soviet Russia. Regarding your, outwardly bright, but absolutely empty in meaning thesis: "The USSR is the stage of initial capitalist accumulation" ... Sorry, my teacher laughed for a long time. Again, because of the absolute inability of the authors of such conceptual "insights", to see the essence of the ongoing transformations and to realize their cause-and-effect relationships. T.N. The "initial" capitalist "accumulation" BEGAN in post-Soviet (and ANTI-Soviet FOR THE TIME ...) Russia after the USSR collapsed (it did not "collapse", but it was BROKEN, which is not the same thing). It began with the ILLEGAL and ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL PLANING OF PUBLIC property under the guise of "privatization". And the newly-minted Russian capitalists (including some of the "elite" you mentioned) have never "accumulated" anything. They simply plundered the accumulated Soviet power. But this, excuse me, both in essence and in form, are ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT PHENOMENA and PROCESS. Just in case... In the Constitution of the USSR (and the RSFSR), the land and its bowels were in the EXCLUSIVE PROPERTY OF THE PEOPLE. This "EXCLUSIVELY" means that NOBODY, except for the Russian (Soviet) PEOPLE, the decision on the so-called. "privatization" of land and its subsoil, LEGALLY, had no right to accept. Neither parliament, nor government, nor Congress ... Only the PEOPLE ITSELF at the REFERENDUM. But such a NATIONAL referendum on the privatization of land and its subsoil in Russia has NEVER BEEN HELD. This question is simply "shook up". But this, I suppose, is "before the time" ... Such things are never forgotten by anyone. And ALWAYS, in an appropriate situation, can become a LEGAL basis for one or another socialist force that has come to power in Russia, for "retaking the deck." I do not "wang" and do not rush things. I just remind you that in Russian history, different things, you know, happened ...
              1. irontom
                irontom 25 March 2021 19: 55
                0
                With all due respect to you and your point of view, with which I largely agree, your main drawback is "a lot of bukaf", as a result, your detailed thought due to
                most will simply ignore it.
                Brevity is the soul of wit
      2. Zug
        Zug 25 March 2021 11: 20
        0
        This is what should be saved, and all ignorant history poke around. Thank you for such a short, but succinct answer. And then some even Finland, walking around Karelia, began to be called "defenders" of the Vepsians and Karelians.
    4. ioan-e
      ioan-e 26 March 2021 08: 53
      0
      Quote: iouris
      In 1919, Russia was gone.

      Russia was, is and always will be, no matter how anyone calls it!
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 23 March 2021 18: 12
    +1
    The statement had purely pragmatic reasons - the property of the British in Soviet Russia was nationalized, the former empire was rapidly disintegrating, the Civil War was gaining momentum inside ...
    The arrogant from the islands knew how to take it away by force, and even grab it for free, as they thought, was simply "sacred"!
  3. Andy
    Andy 23 March 2021 18: 21
    +18
    “I would like to see the frigates Sevastyanov and Nesvitsky. And the SSBN Lieutenant Bakhtin.
    And rightly so. And thus the "partners" would be pleased to remember, probably ... "

    huge plus!
  4. tatra
    tatra 23 March 2021 18: 26
    +8
    "The history" of the Civil War in Russia from the enemies of the communists who seized Russia under the cowardly spells "and we have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists are to blame."
    In their "history" there is neither the White Terror, nor the occupation of Russia by the invaders, nor the atrocities of the invaders against the Russian people, there are no concentration camps created by the "whites" and their allies, the invaders, there is only one big Red Terror against "the most, most innocent, gene pool and color nation ".
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator 23 March 2021 20: 13
      -8
      Quote: tatra
      In their "history" there is neither the White Terror, nor the occupation of Russia by the invaders, nor the atrocities of the invaders against the Russian people, there are no concentration camps created by the "whites" and their allies, the invaders, there is only one big Red Terror against "the most, most innocent, gene pool and color nation ".

      The White Terror is a consequence of the activity of certain frostbitten military leaders. The Red Terror is a deliberate policy of the Bolsheviks in accordance with their views on the class struggle. The difference is obvious.
      1. tatra
        tatra 23 March 2021 20: 23
        +5
        What are "separate"? ALL enemies of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War unleashed by them killed the Bolsheviks and their supporters. Especially, the Anglo-Saxon lackey Kolchak and his comrades-in-arms, praised by the current enemies of the Bolsheviks.
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator 24 March 2021 00: 11
          -3
          Quote: tatra
          What are "separate"? ALL enemies of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War unleashed by them killed the Bolsheviks and their supporters.

          Everything is relative. During the White Guard Yaroslavl uprising, the whites killed a couple of the most important Bolsheviks with sabers, while the rest were put under arrest, from where they later escaped safely. Grateful Bolsheviks, in return, demolished half of the city from the artillery, and then staged a massacre during filtration, shooting those who, in their opinion, had few "labor corns" on their hands.
      2. Artyom Karagodin
        Artyom Karagodin 23 March 2021 23: 27
        +5
        Quote: Obliterator
        White terror - a consequence of the activity of certain frostbitten military leaders

        What is usually attributed to the Red Terror - too. For example, when, after the defeat of Wrangel, Bela Kun and Zemlyachka together gave the order to destroy all registered white officers, then in Moscow their actions were condemned. True, only in words, since in the conditions of a civil war, local leaders are practically uncontrollable. Kolchak also hated Semyonov with his atrocities, which he did on his behalf, but he could not do anything. Like Frunze, who, after the aforementioned executions, almost shot himself, since the word "honor" was not foreign to him.

        The difference between the White and Red Terror is only that the Reds declared openly that they would destroy everyone they consider enemies, while the White did not. But they also carried out mass executions of Bolshevik supporters. Can you guarantee that there were only the guilty among those executed?

        Why all of the above? To the fact that trouble is trouble. It always means rivers of shed blood. Everywhere and always. And yes, as a rule, the winner sheds more blood than the loser. Or do you think if White won, they would have shed less of it?
      3. ABC-schütze
        ABC-schütze 24 March 2021 14: 02
        +5
        "The White Terror is a consequence of the activity of certain frostbitten military leaders. The Red Terror is a deliberate policy of the Bolsheviks in accordance with their views on the class struggle. The difference is obvious."
        ******************************************************************************
        Well, I would not be in a hurry to name Mr. Milyukov or gene. Alekseeva "individual scumbags." In short, no need to dissemble ... MASS WHITE, anti-Bolshevik terror, began not at all "with the executions" of the Bolsheviks, but with the organization of the TOTAL, food and fuel BLOCADES of the Bolshevik industrial centers in AUTUMN 1917. In an attempt to "cut off" them from the food of the south and the coal of Ukraine. And intentions, thereby causing MASS HUNGER OF MILLION masses of the population of the aforementioned industrial centers and "cold" economic and communal paralysis. It is THIS that is the BEGINNING, ACTIVE, CONSCIOUS, MASS, WHITE, ANTIBOLSHEVIST terror. supplemented by an ACTIVE force (military) influence on the Soviet government and its supporters. By the way, the Bolsheviks, who abolished the death penalty as such, and released ALL the captive "class opponents" who "signed up" with the refusal of armed resistance to Soviet power, kept their word ...
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 23 March 2021 20: 20
      -6
      Grandma Tatra, don't you get tired of being in exorcist ecstasy all the time? Do you lull your grandchildren with fairy tales about "enemies of the communists"? Well, paranoia, by God ...
      1. tatra
        tatra 23 March 2021 20: 26
        +1
        Ha, why are the enemies of the communists, all 103 years of the Soviet and their post-Soviet periods, proving that they are the fierce enemies of the communists, go into hysterics when they are called that? And this is their cowardly essence, a desire to pretend that they themselves do not exist, and there is nothing that they have done with their country and people during the Soviet period, during their Perestroika, 30 years after their capture of the USSR.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 23 March 2021 20: 38
          -4
          Quote: tatra
          fierce enemies of the communists, go into hysterics when they are called that?

          hell knows, they don't go anywhere, I think. Tantrums are more in your part.
          1. tatra
            tatra 23 March 2021 21: 32
            -1
            Well then, do not hysteria.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 23 March 2021 21: 58
              -1
              Quote: tatra
              Well then, do not hysteria.

              laughing Are you funny)
              Dusty helmet, leather jacket, personal revolver?
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 24 March 2021 10: 09
                +5
                personal revolver

                Mauser "Bolo".
  5. Zhan
    Zhan 23 March 2021 18: 43
    +8
    The article is very interesting, thanks to the author. Now, if on the basis of these events a film was made, I think it would have been a very great success.
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 23 March 2021 18: 45
    +11
    There were also a number of minor episodes with the participation of TKA type CMB 40 feet
    According to the British classification, this is not a torpedo boat, but a coastal motor boat - a coastal motor boat.
    Those used in the Baltic were called Coastal Motor Boat 4.

    HM Coastal Motor Boat 4 in the Baltic.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 23 March 2021 19: 25
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      HM Coastal Motor Boat 4 in the Baltic.

      where is TA?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 23 March 2021 19: 35
        +9
        where is TA?
        At the stern - a grooved torpedo tube. After the torpedo was dropped, the boat had to turn away from its course and the torpedo, having gained a given depth and speed, continued its independent movement.

        In the photo is Lieutenant August Agar's HM Coastal Motor Boat 4 at the Imperial War Museum in Duxford.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 23 March 2021 19: 40
          +5
          Wow.
          Thank you, I did not know about the existence of such launchers. Pipes are more familiar.
          Those. the torpedo descended into the water astern and then followed the course of the boat itself?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 23 March 2021 19: 43
            +12
            Those. the torpedo descended into the water astern and then followed the course of the boat itself?
            Yes, absolutely correct.

            By the way, on the Soviet G-5, there were also gutter TA.
          2. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 23 March 2021 22: 34
            +6
            Those. the torpedo descended into the water astern and then followed the course of the boat itself?

            Quite right, this type of TA was also on our most massive torpedo planing boats of the G-5 type. A significant disadvantage of such a torpedo launch was that it was impossible to fire a torpedo at the target from the spot. Later, this scheme was abandoned altogether.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 March 2021 16: 11
              +2
              Quote: Aviator_
              Quite right, this type of TA was also on our most massive torpedo planing boats of the G-5 type.

              EMNIP, the gutter TA was abandoned only on the D-3 and the drag TA was installed. And on TM-200 and 123-bis pipes finally appeared.
  7. nnz226
    nnz226 23 March 2021 18: 48
    +21
    The headline speaks of the Russian-English war of 1919, but only the war at sea is described, and the battles in the north of the country (Arkhangelsk, Murmansk)? Concentration camp on the island of Mudyug, who need to poke in the face of the impudent current small-bred people incessantly? And why is our Foreign Ministry crumpled?
    1. Gato
      Gato 23 March 2021 23: 06
      +6
      and the battles in the north of the country (Arkhangelsk, Murmansk)?

      Yes, and there was something to fight for. Among other things, huge reserves of military equipment supplied by the allies, which did not have time to be exported to central Russia. From there, by the way, leather jackets. There were also rumors that the legendary award-winning red revolutionary harem pants were old supplies donated by the French after switching to khaki:
      1. irontom
        irontom 25 March 2021 20: 02
        +1
        Nah, it got from our / tsarist (ceremonial) hussars, in one of the Soviet films about the civil war, unfortunately I don't remember, the topic of hussar uniforms painted with paints who had just arrived at the front was raised.
        1. Gato
          Gato 25 March 2021 20: 30
          0
          Yes, this also took place:
          For example, in the spring of 1920, the Polish-Gycapkiy Shelf of the Zavolzhckoi Group made it possible for us to revise the 10th Gycapcko Ingamenland Apollopolk. This happened because the red hycaps were standing in the town of Balaklee, in which the Ingrianlandians had been saying before the revolution. They are normally in nocili kachectve papadnoy fopmy kpapovye (verily ect yapko-kpacnye) chakchipy.Na ckladah in Balaklee boytsy, k cvoey neopicyemoy padocti, obnapyzhili bolshie zalezhi ctapogo papadnogo obmyndipovaniya hoposhego kachectva and kpoya. The beautiful konniki transformed into theatrical emperors of the hycap, overlooking the blue expanded schnypamy hollows and krapovy chakchirs. But later the tight pants turned out to be y mahnovtsev - they stacked them from the killed kpac warriors - Source: https://muegn.ru/tehnicheskie-sredstva/nagradit-krasnymi-revolyuevtsev ©
  8. knn54
    knn54 23 March 2021 18: 50
    +10
    Roman, thank you very much. UNIVERSAL "+" The last two paragraphs were especially impressive.
  9. Pavel57
    Pavel57 23 March 2021 18: 55
    +9
    Yes, an interesting war.

    L-55 was lifted by the rescue catamaran "Commune" - still in service.
  10. Constanty
    Constanty 23 March 2021 19: 07
    +13
    Submarine HMS L-55 after lifting from the bottom

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  13. Catfish
    Catfish 23 March 2021 19: 14
    +10
    Roman, thank you very much for the interesting and useful article. And for Bakhtin, Sevostyanov and Nesvitsky - separately! good
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 23 March 2021 19: 29
      +13
      British submarine L - 55. She served Russia for a long time and survived the Great Patriotic War.



      A model of a boat in one of our museums, below the "native" flag of the British Navy.

      55ft British TC.

  14. smaug78
    smaug78 23 March 2021 19: 26
    -7
    Samsonov, Frolova, Ivanov - hello bottom ...
    1. Borisych
      Borisych 23 March 2021 19: 50
      +6
      Thanks to the author for the material, there are still many blank spots and interesting points. And a lot of work. The same applies to the concentration camps created by small-bred people, it's time to present an invoice.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 23 March 2021 20: 51
      +1
      Quote: smaug78
      Samsonov, Frolova, Ivanov - hello bottom ...


      The first two do not raise questions - dona. And what did Ivanov not please?
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 24 March 2021 20: 58
        +1
        Yes, the same ...
  15. purple
    purple 23 March 2021 19: 46
    .
    Quote: tatra
    "The history" of the Civil War in Russia from the enemies of the communists who seized Russia under the cowardly spells "and we have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists are to blame."
    In their "history" there is neither the White Terror, nor the occupation of Russia by the invaders, nor the atrocities of the invaders against the Russian people, there are no concentration camps created by the "whites" and their allies, the invaders, there is only one big Red Terror against "the most, most innocent, gene pool and color nation ".

    Irina breathe out .... In reality, the Bolsheviks merged the country. How many people died because of their stupidity and inability to negotiate
    1. Jager
      Jager 23 March 2021 20: 14
      +13
      Lenin overthrew the tsar, yes.
      And with whom to negotiate, with the interventionists? With the Japanese or the British? Or with the Americans, who also rolled over to the section of the pie?
      In some 30 years, the USSR will become a nuclear superpower that has broken the backbone of the strongest army in the world.
    2. tatra
      tatra 23 March 2021 21: 22
      +2
      What a cowardly manner of enemies of the communists - when they write about YOU, you rush to malice against the communists? Where did the Bolsheviks "merge" the country? This is according to the new training manual of Putin, whose Bolsheviks, who created the Soviet Union, destroyed it, and the CPSU?
    3. Hantengri
      Hantengri 23 March 2021 22: 05
      +12
      Quote: purple
      Irina breathe out .... In reality, the Bolsheviks merged the country.

      Yeah! And what a country it was! ... The rolls crunched, Schubert's waltzes were playing, the drunk schoolgirls, as expected, blushed in the cold ... Lyapota!
      And obese peasants, drowning knee-deep in jelly banks, scooped milk straight from the river and sold it to each other to pay the ransom payments, glorifying God, the Tsar and the Fatherland ... wassat
      Quote: purple
      How many people died because of their stupidity and inability to negotiate

      And how much? More than Nicholas II Worthless, from a great mind, ditched in RYAV and PMV, or less?
  16. purple
    purple 23 March 2021 19: 57
    .
    Quote: tatra
    Yes, the rich and richest parasites on the neck of the poor people lost their Russia, and the people found their social state, which was taken away from them by those who praised "Russia we lost" in October 1917.

    hinterland? reading your comments, the former party nomenclature of Moscow is written with laughter ...
    what kind of people in the USSR ... really did not differ much from the slaves in ancient Rome ... although the slaves had more rights.
    Plus, in the USSR, yes, it was possible to live without straining and doing nothing, it is quite normal.
    I think your ideal.
    1. tatra
      tatra 23 March 2021 21: 24
      0
      Ha, the enemies of the communists are all "processed". Well, you really need to try to ruin ALL the republics of the USSR that you captured, and ALL branches in them.
  17. Undecim
    Undecim 23 March 2021 20: 03
    +10
    The Baltic Fleet was formally a formidable force, despite the loss of Finland, the Baltic States, and with them part of the ships. It consisted of four dreadnought battleships, two dreadnought battleships
    Regarding the dreadnought battleships as of 1918, the author was clearly mistaken.
    Squadron battleship "Tsesarevich", since March 1917 - "Citizen".
    Squadron battleship Andrew the First-Called.
    Squadron battleship "Emperor Paul I", from April 1917 - "Republic".
    1. Roman81
      24 March 2021 10: 18
      0
      Caesar was by 1919 a heap of unusable and deeply obsolete scrap metal. I have not yet counted Alexander 2 and Peter the Great
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 24 March 2021 11: 01
        +3
        This pile of scrap metal in October 1917 still actively fought with the Germans together with "Slava".
        1. Roman81
          24 March 2021 16: 05
          -2
          Not so active. "Slava" was shooting at a distance. And a lot has been lost in two years. Neither Caesar nor Paul entered the pillbox and were not planned
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 24 March 2021 16: 38
          0
          Quote: Undecim
          This pile of scrap metal in October 1917 still actively fought with the Germans together with "Slava".

          On what his active service ended.
          After 1917, the problems of "iron" on the "Tsarevich" were the result of problems with the crew. The ship was enlisted in the reserve detachment of the Kronstadt Naval Forces, which in fact meant "the ship was thrown in the harbor and guarded carelessly."
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 24 March 2021 18: 05
            +1
            Does this somehow cancel his existence?
  18. Undecim
    Undecim 23 March 2021 20: 16
    +14
    One of the boats, by the way, was raised.
    On its basis, the Soviet TKA "G-5" were designed

    I wonder where the author got this information from?
    Soviet torpedo boats G-5 were designed on the basis of Soviet torpedo boats SH-4 (ANT-4).
    The Sh-4 torpedo boats were designed on the basis of the ANT-3 torpedo boat.

    The torpedo boat ANT-3 was created taking into account the experience of designing the ANT-1 and ANT-2 gliders by Tupolev.
    ANT-1 is generally Tupolev's 1918 graduation project.
  19. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 23 March 2021 20: 31
    +5
    The article is an ordinary libel against the Bolsheviks. There was a hard war, no one forgot it, but the author forgot that during this war the Baltic Fleet sank 18 ships of the interventionists, including 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, damaged 16 ships .. The losses of the Baltic fleet 8 ships. For battles in the civil war, the Baltic Fleet was awarded the Order of the Red Banner, i.e. became known as the Baltic Red Banner Fleet.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 23 March 2021 22: 39
      +2
      During this war, the Baltic Fleet sank 18 ships of the interventionists, including 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, damaged 16 ships ..

      Forgotten drowned British boat L-55
  20. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 23 March 2021 21: 04
    +2
    On May 13, the cruiser Curacao was blown up by a mine. And was taken to England

    To Denmark. He was treated in Copenhagen.
    A month later, the famous mutiny of the forts Kr. Gorka and Seraya Horse began - the rebels, with some fright, awaited the approach of English ships for help. With what hangover to do this to the British - it is not clear.
  21. samarin1969
    samarin1969 23 March 2021 21: 08
    +2
    Great article. Great light style. hi
  22. parusnik
    parusnik 23 March 2021 21: 13
    +7
    Eh, so soon there will be articles about how Russia (like the USSR never existed) fought with Japan in 1945
    1. tatra
      tatra 23 March 2021 21: 38
      +2
      And so already, all of Putin's speeches at the Victory Parades are neither the USSR nor the Soviet people, but only "our country", "our people."
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 24 March 2021 10: 17
        0
        Irina, maybe it's enough to draw dividing lines in the history of the country? How can? Interestingly, are you proud of the victories of Peter the Great, Rumyantsev, Suvorov, Potemkin, Ushakov? But they were "exploiters", had serf souls, "drank the blood of the working peasantry"?
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 24 March 2021 11: 37
          -1
          Quote: Okolotochny
          Irina, maybe it's enough to draw dividing lines in the history of the country?

          Empty. To appeal to logic when dealing with this fanatical ascetic is a waste of time.
    2. Roman81
      24 March 2021 10: 19
      +3
      it was not. The state in 1919 was called the RSFSR. That is, Russia. USSR was created three years later
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 24 March 2021 11: 42
        +3
        Quote: Roman81
        it was not. The state in 1919 was called the RSFSR. That is, Russia. USSR was created three years later

        Comrade Kalinin, speaking at the rally on 23.12.1919. before the sailors of Kronstadt, operated with the name "Russian Soviet Republic" and "Russian Republic")
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Niko
    Niko 24 March 2021 00: 00
    +1
    Quote: iouris
    In 1919, Russia was gone.

    Russia was in the 16th and did not go anywhere in the 19th, it is now, it will be afterwards. If a loved one is sick, even a seriously normal person does not renounce him, but thinks how and how to help
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Unknown
    Unknown 24 March 2021 00: 36
    +3
    An interesting topic is touched upon in the article, but talking about the confrontation between only two fleets, the Royal Navy and the Baltic Fleet of the RKKF, is a little inaccurate. There were also fleets of Limitrophes, Estonia and Finland, created from the ships of the former imperial fleet, and captured by the British during Operation "Special Forces" in this composition ... 2 destroyers - "Novik" - "Lennuk" and "Vambola" former Russian destroyers Avtoil and Spartak
    2 gunboats - "Lembit" The former Russian gunboat "Beaver" captured by the British on December 26 and 27, 1918 during an adventurous raid on Tallinn. at first loudly called a cruiser by the Estonians.
    "Lood" and "Laene" former Russian messenger ship "Sputnik", captured by the Germans in Helsingfors in the spring of 1918),
    2 minelayers - "Kalev" and "Olev" former Russian motor boats No. 8 and 10
    4 minesweepers - "Alice", "Edith", "Kaethe" and "Una" (converted from tugs),
    10 small minesweeping boats
    military transport "Kalewi Poeg" (former Russian steamship "Alexei"
    icebreaker "Hercules. The Finns also took it. So, they captured 5 old destroyers (Mobile, Obedient, Discerning, Frisky, Zealous), 21 messenger ships (Berkut, Voevoda, Viola, Kondor, Posadnik, No. 103, 104, 119, 120, 127, 128, 129, 212 , 214, 215, 716, 217, 218, 219, 220, 222), 5 patrol boats (Dove, Vulture, Penguin, Owl, Teal), more than 20 patrol boats, 9 minelayers (Bureya, Voin, Dune, Zeya, Ilmen, Irtysh, Luga, Mologa, Msta), 30 minesweepers (Alyosha Popovich, Gruz, Dobrynya, Dulo, Defender, Capsule, Comet, Krambol, Mikula, Minrep, Namet, Flame, Planet, Stream Bogatyr, Svyatogor, Trunk, Tumba, Fortral, Tsapfa, Cheka, M-1, M-4, M-5, M-6, M-7, No. 2, 3, 16, 17. 23), a number of auxiliary vessels. Add them to the British squadron, you get a lot of strength. The combat operations of this joint squadron were not limited to the sea, they were actively shelling the coast of Estonia, occupied by the 7th Army of the Red Army, and up to the fort "Red Hill" and the battery "Gray Horse". Generally speaking, the history of GV in the Northeast cannot be considered only as military clashes at sea. After February 17, there was another leapfrog with the independence of the Baltic provinces, the occupation of the Kaiser Germany, attempts to establish Soviet power, the intervention of the Entente. The local bourgeoisie and the intelligentsia, who seized power with the help of the Germans, then threw them over to the Entente, did not want to be part of, whether it be indivisible Russia, or as Soviet republics. And the countries of consent themselves were not eager to destroy the limitrophes, they did not create it for this purpose ....... The British ambassador in Paris, Lord Bertie, characterizing the mood of the British government circles, wrote in his diary on December 6, 1918:
    “There is no more Russia! It disintegrated, the idol in the form of the Emperor and religion, which connected different nations with the Orthodox faith, disappeared. If only we manage to achieve the independence of Finland, Poland, Estonia, Ukraine, etc., and no matter how many of them we manage to fabricate, then, in my opinion, the rest can go to hell and cook in our own juice! .... It turns out that the Bolsheviks were the real force that could collect what was lost again. They had the main thing - an ideology that was understandable to the masses, terry local nationalism, they opposed internationalism, whether someone liked it or not, but then it worked. Time will pass, cadres will be created in the spirit of the USSR, everything will return to normal. This is the merit of the RKPb.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 24 March 2021 08: 12
      -9
      Quote: Unknown
      It turns out that the Bolsheviks were the real force that could collect what was lost again.

      where does it ... "come out"? The Whites successfully crushed the nationalists and cost Russia.

      The Bolsheviks have collected NER-Russia, look through the window, WHAT they have "collected". In fact, they left the Brest Treaty in force - you can see it in the window.
      Quote: Unknown
      They had the main thing - an ideology understandable to the masses, terry local nationalism

      Well said and right! yes Terry systemic nationalists, carefully grown and nurtured by the Bolsheviks in the nat. republics, the homegrown nationalists of 1917 were no match.
      Quote: Unknown
      this, they did not burn with the desire to destroy the limitrophes, they did not create ....... The British ambassador in Paris, Lord Bertie, characterizing the mood of the government circles in England, wrote in his diary on December 6, 1918:
      “There is no more Russia! It disintegrated, the idol in the form of the Emperor and the religion, which connected different nations with the Orthodox faith, disappeared. If only we manage to achieve the independence of Finland, Poland, Estonia, Ukraine, etc., and no matter how many of them we manage to fabricate, then, in my opinion, the rest can go to hell and stew in its own juice!

      that's exactly why the British left, and not because they were ... "driven away" lol puffing out cheeks, Bolshevik infirmities.

      Likewise, the Americans and Franks left THEMSELVES, and the Yapps were ordered to leave the United States altogether.
      Quote: Unknown
      Time will pass, cadres will be created in the spirit of the USSR, all back into circles withhowling. This is the merit of the RKPb.

      returned, of course, in the form of the RF. But cut off by 5 million km2, thanks to the "merit" of the rkpbee
      1. Unknown
        Unknown 24 March 2021 10: 06
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich

        where does it ... "come out"? The Whites successfully crushed the nationalists and cost Russia.

        The Bolsheviks have collected NER-Russia, look through the window, WHAT they have "collected". In fact, they left the Brest Treaty in force - you can see it in the window.

        Do not talk nonsense about whites and other "saviors of the fatherland". They did not crush the Natsiks, not in your country in Bessarabia, not in the Baltics, all the more so in Ukraine, where they served everyone en masse, then Skoropadsky, then Petliura, about which M.A.Bulgakov wrote well. Denikin tried to drive the Caucasian abreks so that the rear would not be robbed, yes There was no sense. 1-August 1919, the North-Western army of Yudenich recognized the independence of Estonia. Kolchak recognized the demands of the Entente. Transfer of the issue of secession of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania (as well as the Caucasus and the Trans-Caspian region) from Russia to the arbitration of the League of Nations in the event that the necessary agreements are not reached between Kolchak and the "governments" of these territories. Along the way, Kolchak was presented with an ultimatum that he should recognize the right of the Versailles Conference to decide the fate of Bessarabia. Who is Wrangel? ”1) Recognize all obligations of Russia and its cities towards France with priority and payment of interest on interest. 2) France will convert all Russian debts and a new 6,5% loan with partial annual repayment over 35 years. 3) Interest payments and annual repayments are guaranteed by: a) transfer to France of the right to operate all railways of European Russia; b) the transfer to France of the right to levy customs and port duties in all ports of the Black and Azov Seas; c) providing France with a surplus of grain in Ukraine and the Kuban region; d) placing at the disposal of France 75% of oil and gasoline production; e) transfer of 1/4 of the coal mined in the Donetsk region; Items b), c), e) enter into force immediately upon the occupation of the corresponding territories by the troops of General Wrangel. 4) Under the Russian ministries of finance, trade and industry, French financial and commercial offices are being established in the future ..

        Source: https://fishki.net/3006317-dogovor-mezhdu-vrangelem-i-francuzskim-pravitelystvom.html © Fishki.net Krasnov looked the other way .... and Wilhelm was told the following:

        “Your Imperial and Royal Majesty.

        The bearer of this letter <...> I have been authorized by the Don Ataman to greet Your Imperial Majesty the Mighty Monarch of Great Germany and convey the following.
        <...>
        Ataman of the Winter village at the court of Your Imperial Majesty <...> I am authorized to ask Your Majesty to recognize the rights of the Great Don Army to independent existence, and as the last of the Kuban, Astrakhan and Terek troops and the North Caucasus are liberated, the right to independent existence and the entire federation under the name Don-Caucasian Union. <…>

        To ask Your Majesty to put pressure on the Soviet authorities in Moscow and force them by order to clear the boundaries of the Great Don Army and other powers that have entered the Don-Caucasian Union <...>

        To ask Your Imperial Majesty to help our young state with guns, rifles, ammunition and engineering equipment, and if you find it beneficial to arrange a gun, rifle, shell and cartridge factories within the Don Army. The Great Don Host grants the German Empire the right of preferential export of surplus for the satisfaction of local needs of bread, grain and flour, leather goods and raw materials, wool, fish products, vegetable and animal fats and oils and products from them, tobacco products and products, livestock and horses, wines of grape and other products of horticulture and agriculture, in exchange for which the German Empire will deliver agricultural machinery, chemical products and tanning extracts, equipment for the expedition for the preparation of state papers with an appropriate supply of materials, equipment for cloth, cotton, leather, chemical, sugar and other factories and electrical supplies.

        In addition, the government of the Great Don Army will provide German industry with special privileges for investing capital in industrial and commercial enterprises in the Don, in particular, for the construction and operation of new waterways and other routes.

        A close agreement promises mutual benefits and friendship, welded with blood shed on the common battlefields by the warlike peoples of the Germans and Cossacks, will become a powerful force to fight all our enemies. <...>
        I am addressing Your Imperial Majesty with this letter ... <...> I ask you to believe in the sincerity of my feelings.
        Yours, Pyotr Krasnov, Don chieftain, Major General. "
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 March 2021 11: 21
          -7
          Quote: Unknown
          not in Bessarabia, not in the Baltics, especially Ukraine, where everyone was served en masse, then Skoropadsky, then Petliura, about which M.A.Bulgakov wrote well. Denikin tried to drive the Caucasian abreks so that the rear did not rob, but there was no sense

          do not chalk BASH: the whites did an excellent job with both the Georgians and the self-styled people, only your singers of the nationalists prevented them from bringing their feelings.

          By decrees of the so-called. sovlvasti were recognized as the independence of the baltics, ukraine, poland, finland much earlier ..

          And the NWP just delivered an ultimatum to the Angles.
          Quote: Unknown
          Kolchak recognized the demands of the Entente.

          lie: he replied that thhe cannot make a final decision before the convocation of the Constituent Assembly, since only it, as the spokesman for the interests of the people, must finally decide this issue.
          Quote: Unknown
          ”1) Recognize all obligations of Russia and its cities towards France with priority and payment of interest on interest. 2) France will convert all Russian debts and a new 6,5% loan with partial annual repayment over 35 years.

          again you are quoting stupid false agitation: the DOCUMENT itself is on the table!
          Quote: Unknown
          Peter Krasnov

          Until the restoration of Russia, the Don kept. and the Cossacks fought in the same ranks with Denikin for united Russia
          Here, in Bessarabia, tell the local nationalists how good it will be for them under the Russian monarchy. Wondering what you get in return?

          These nationalists, you know, were brought up by the BOLSHEVIKS for 50 years, before that they never existed, practically.
          .
          even after the thief, the MDR declared itself a part of Russia and during the occupation by the Romanians, Chisinau spoke Russian and with joy returned to Russia in 1940, but from Russian Bessarabia, at the same time, the MSSR was forcibly molded. Another crime of yours.
          Quote: Unknown
          The Americans, Franks, Anglicos, do not have the habit of leaving on their own, where Gibraltar, Guantanamo, French Polynesia, Martinique, Mayotte and others have come. They leave when they demand, by force to get out.

          do not compare n with a finger and learn DOCUMENTS regarding Russia, where in Russia ... is Gibraltar? they fulfilled their goals, made a decision and left. They, yes, ruined BM and drove out yap-s
          She returned as the USSR, returning what R.I. in R. Ya. war.

          Show the official DOCUMENT, or at least the statements of the owls of the leadership that the USSR is Russia. You can not? when you find, come.

          And yes, if you in the ESSR, GSSR, etc., declared that it was Russia, your face, would suffer greatly ...
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 24 March 2021 16: 49
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            Until the restoration of Russia, the Don kept. and the Cossacks fought in a single formation with Denikin for a united Russia

            Hmm ... just in Deninkin's works Krasnov's art and his small-town separatism are well described. After all, he even wanted to lay a paw on Drozdovsky's detachment, and generally send the Volunteers to fight Tsaritsyn - in the interests of his personal state.
            Krasnov was a separatist - just like the Georgian and Ukrainian nationalists. And he fought together with the Whites not for "one and indivisible", but against the Bolsheviks who threatened the Don Army that they had pulled out of Russia. If it were not for the red ones in its edges, he would not have lifted a finger.
            By the way, relatively recently, it was described here - how the Cossacks had to be forced to fight outside the territory of their "troops" almost by force.
          2. Unknown
            Unknown 24 March 2021 18: 05
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            do not chalk BASH: the whites did an excellent job with both the Georgians and the self-styled people, only your singers of the nationalists prevented them from bringing their feelings.

            Probably the nationalists fell from Mars, and did not appear in R.I., having studied at higher educational institutions.
            Quote: Olgovich
            You are lying: he replied that he could not make a final decision before the convocation of the Constituent Assembly, since only it, as the spokesman for the interests of the people, should finally decide this issue.

            Well, of course, as Schweik used to say ... in one regiment one officer had the same obedient orderly. He did whatever his master wanted. When asked if he would be able to eat a spoonful of his feces on the orders of his officer, he replied: “If the lieutenant orders, I will eat, just so that no hair is caught in him. I am terribly squeamish, and I will immediately vomit. "
            Quote: Olgovich
            again you are quoting stupid false agitation: the DOCUMENT itself is on the table,

            Give the opposite, for example, whatever Wrangel's slogan, flag in hand, or something else.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Until the restoration of Russia, the Don kept. and the Cossacks fought in a single formation with Denikin for a united Russia

            Not the slogans of the times of G.V. push here, sit down and read, “Quiet Don,” what Krasnov defended there, and that the Cossacks are better than M.A. Nobody wrote Sholokhov.
            Quote: Olgovich
            These nationalists, you know, were brought up by the BOLSHEVIKS for 50 years, before that they never existed, practically.
            .
            even after the thief, the MDR declared itself a part of Russia, and during the occupation by the Romanians, Chisinau spoke Russian and happily returned to Russia in 1940. But the Russian Bessarabia was then forcibly molded into the MSSR.

            You know, in the USSR almost until the 91st year, and in your Chisinau they spoke Russian, as well as Vilnius, Riga, Tallinn, Kiev, and even in Tashkent, Alma-ata and other republics of the Union. But here, along with Gorbachev, there came empty talkers and talkers, arguing what Russia they had lost, singing along with the local Nazis that the Bolsheviks were to blame for everything, assuring the Russians living there that there would be no USSR, whether there would be a monarchy, it is not known with which tsar, or a republic February, but in August 91, like in 17, the Nazis put all the points. Suitcase, station, Russia, will not be like under the tsar, not like under Soviet rule, it will be our way. In Bessarabia, the truth was shouting, we want a tsar, but not Russian, preferably Romanian, as România Mare shouted there. But the Pridnestrovians got their brains right.
            Quote: Olgovich
            And yes, if you in the Estonian SSR, the Georgian SSR, etc., declared that it was Russia, your face would suffer greatly ..

            Easily ! I have never been to Georgia, but when I worked in Moscow, there are more Georgians in the capital than in Georgia itself, I always said what they owe to the Union, and nothing, some agreed. And he told the Estonians there, they also agreed that life was not bad under the Union.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 25 March 2021 10: 21
              -2
              Quote: Unknown
              Probably the nationalists fell from Mars,

              whites coped with them - you raised them on the shield and gave them the country for Ukrainization
              Quote: Unknown
              Well, of course, as Schweik used to say

              according to your "reasons", he said even better: "In a madhouse, everyone could say whatever came into his head."
              Quote: Unknown
              Give the opposite, for example, whatever Wrangel's slogan

              Where is given you document, liar? Yes:
              Quote: Unknown
              flag in hand, or wherever.

              Quote: Unknown
              Not the slogans of the times of G.V. push here, sit down and read, “Quiet Don,” what Krasnov defended there, and that the Cossacks are better than M.A. Nobody wrote Sholokhov.

              you are given the FACT of the struggle in a single formation. artistic literature SOVIET (those lies by definition) of the period will be left to literature
              Quote: Unknown
              You know, in the USSR almost until the 91st year, and in your Chisinau they spoke Russian, as well as Vilnius, Riga, Tallinn, Kiev, and even in Tashkent, Alma-ata and other republics of the Union.

              you know, do not talk nonsense about what you don’t understand: the Nazis were brought up in your universities and the parties matured and hatched by the 1980s
              Quote: Unknown
              Suitcase, station, Russia, will not

              shouted YOUR communist writers, brought up by you, by you, supported by the party and raised to the top. If it did not reach Bessarabia, there were no such people during the Romanian occupation!
              Quote: Unknown
              Easy !

              would be easy to get.
              1. Unknown
                Unknown 25 March 2021 14: 43
                -1
                Quote: Olgovich
                you are given the FACT of the struggle in a single formation. SOVIET artistic literature (those lies by definition) of the period will be left to literature

                To which, sometimes homegrown monarchists from Bessarabia like to refer.
                Quote: Olgovich
                you know, do not talk nonsense about what you don’t understand: the Nazis were brought up in your universities and the parties matured and hatched by the 1980s

                I understand well what I am talking about, I studied at vocational school in the 80s, I did not see Natsiks at close range. Lads of different nationalities were in the hostel, Estonians, Karelians and Slavs. And then, while serving in S.A., he came across almost all the peoples of the former USSR. What language did you speak to say, or guess yourself? I suppose they avoided the army interethnic communication, confined themselves to the Chisinau State University, or the State Pedagogical University named after Ion Creanga. Only there they could get such knowledge about national education and monarchy in R.I.
                Quote: Olgovich
                shouted YOUR communist writers, brought up by you, by you, supported by the party and raised to the top. If it did not reach Bessarabia, there were no such people during the Romanian occupation!

                I agree that the personnel policy after the Second World War gave weakness, every bastard got into the party, but this is fixable. But where does the detailed information about the Romanian occupation come from, that's the question?
                Quote: Olgovich
                would easily get

                Not so easy, he is still alive, and in the Bryansk region. at home, and in Bryansk itself, I communicate with different nationalities, and with people too.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 26 March 2021 08: 19
                  -1
                  Quote: Unknown
                  To which, sometimes homegrown monarchists from Bessarabia like to refer.

                  lying.
                  Quote: Unknown
                  I understand well what I am talking about, I studied at a vocational school in the 80s, I did not see Natsiks point-blank

                  1. you studied in RUSSIA, not in the national republic.

                  2. Your Natsiks were raised in your parties and your national universities: YOURS invented them their "great", never existed "history," culture ", literature, YOUR attracted the Nazis for this Grushchevsky, Vinnichenko, etc. russoboth abomination who, together with yours, raped the Russians into "Ukrainians" and turned the Russian Nikolaevs into Mykolaevs (ugh, how disgusting!)
                  Quote: Unknown
                  And then, while serving in S.A., he came across almost all the peoples of the former USSR. What language did you speak to say, or guess yourself? I believe the army escaped interethnic communication

                  lol in the army, I served more than yours and with me there were battles between teams of Armenians and Azerbaijanis from different units at the facilities, and the Slavs fought off the Asians (WZO)
                  Quote: Unknown
                  I agree that the personnel policy after the Second World War gave weakness, every bastard got into the party, but this is fixable. But where does the detailed information about the Romanian occupation come from, that's the question?

                  Both before and after the Second World War there was one policy of raising nationals to the detriment of the Russians, For example, from the national republics, to the MRSK universities there was a quota from the republics only for nationals, Russians from the same place were prohibited from entering this quota ..

                  2. The history of Russian Bessarabia is fascinating to study. Chisinau, for example, was a Russian-Jewish city, it was made Romanian and brought up by you, under the chatter about "brotherhood". It's just a FACT
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Not so easy, he is still alive, and in the Bryansk region. at home, and in Bryansk itself, I communicate with different nationalities, and with people too.

                  In the LSSR, etc., they would have received for " LSSR is Russia "... And they would have deservedly received it, for it was yours who made her and the rest non-Russia.
                  1. Unknown
                    Unknown 26 March 2021 21: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    lying.

                    Really? When it comes to collectivization, immediately the example of Shchukar or Nagulny, and in addition to constantly referring to the secretary of the regional committee, who saw what he saw there and reported to the Central Committee. Here's how to dodge ..
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    ... you studied in RUSSIA, not in the national republic.

                    2. Your Natsiks were raised in your parties and your national universities: YOURS invented them their "great", never existed "history," culture ", literature, YOUR attracted for this Nazis Grushchevsky, Vinnichenko and other Russobophical abomination, which together with your raped Russians into "Ukrainians" and turned Russian Nikolaevs into Mykolaevs (ugh, how disgusting!)

                    The party was one of the CPSU, and the universities were all-Union, diplomas were valid throughout the Union. History and culture are there for every nation. Why is it so bad to talk about Little Russians, as they were and remained, no matter what it sounds like, Mykopa or Misha. And about Grushevsky and the rest. Mikhail Grushevsky spent his youth in the Caucasus, where he studied at the 2nd Tiflis gymnasium.

                    In 1886-1890 he studied at the Faculty of History and Philology of Kiev University. For his student work "Essay on the history of the Kiev land from the death of Yaroslav to the end of the XIV century." received a gold medal and was left at the university. Another Vinnichenko entered the law faculty of the Kiev University of St. Vladimir in 1901, from the tsarist universities.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    in the army, I served more than yours and with me there were battles between teams of Armenians and Azerbaijanis from different units at the facilities, and the Slavs fought off the Asians (WZO)

                    In large numbers, immigrants from the Caucasus and Central Asia served in the construction battalion. Yes, I sympathize, serving among them with monarchical views is difficult. Apparently the pressure was not weak. The commanders' mistake, it is impossible to collect them all in a crowd, especially Armenians with Azeris. But when part of it is half of the persons of Slavic nationality, then the nationalities are serving regularly. Now it is clear where the chauvinism towards other peoples comes from.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    2. The history of Russian Bessarabia is fascinating to study. Chisinau, for example, was a Russian-Jewish city, it was made Romanian and brought up by you, under the chatter about "brotherhood". It's just a FACT

                    Of course, there was a dispute, there were many nationalities, for example, one comrade from Chisinau worked with me, you tell him a Moldovan, he is offended, no, I say Gagauz, do not confuse. By the way, in the 90s they stood for the Union like a mountain.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    In the LSSR, etc., they would have received for "LSSR is Russia". And they would have deservedly received it, for it was yours who made her and the rest non-Russia.

                    LSSR what kind of republic? Lithuanian or Latvian? I was on business trips in both of them, Klaipeda, Ventspils, it was normal, it didn’t come to a massacre, even in conversations beyond the hill.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 27 March 2021 10: 15
                      -2
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Really? When it comes to collectivization, immediately the example of Shchukar or Nagulny, and in addition to constantly referring to the secretary of the regional committee, who saw what he saw there and reported to the Central Committee. Here's how to dodge ..

                      lie, give a specific example. You can not? No!
                      ... Not ashamed?
                      Quote: Unknown
                      The party was one of the CPSU, and the universities were all-union, diplomas were valid throughout the Union. History and culture are there for every nation. Why is it so bad to talk about Little Russians,

                      what is "bad" said, again lying

                      Little Russians are the Russian people and they have no separate history.
                      And the funny Russophobic "Ukrainians" with its funny "history" of the early 20th century have already made nation with an ancient "history" lol exactly YOUR
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Mikhail Grushevsky spent in the Caucasus, where he studied at the 2nd Tiflis gymnasium.

                      In 1886-1890 he studied at the Faculty of History and Philology of Kiev University. For his student work "Essay on the history of the Kiev land from the death of Yaroslav to the end of the XIV century." received a gold medal and was left at the university. Another Vinnichenko

                      These Nazis did NOT lead anything in Russia and were arrested for Russophobia, and in the USSR the Nazis ... were invited, raised, courted by the criminals, and they carried out the criminal Ukrainization.
                      Quote: Unknown
                      In large numbers, immigrants from the Caucasus and Central Asia served in the construction battalion. Yes, I sympathize, serving among them with monarchical views is difficult. Apparently the pressure was not weak.

                      lol the captain of the UNRM is fine
                      Quote: Unknown
                      The commanders' mistake, it is impossible to collect them all in bulk, especially Armenians with Azeris

                      and none of the officers collected them, they themselves, and from different parts of the flock, working at the facility.
                      Quote: Unknown
                      .Now it is clear where chauvinism towards others nations.

                      you are simply slandering and should be held accountable for your insults, if you do not give at least one example-
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Of course the dispute, there were many nationalities

                      There were many and together they made Russian Bessarabia, and YOU made mono-national Moldova
                      Quote: Unknown
                      LSSR what kind of republic? Lithuanian or Latvian? I was on business trips in both of them, Klaipeda, Ventspils, it was normal, it didn’t come to a massacre, even in conversations beyond the hill.

                      and you told them that the LSSR is Russia?

                      No? Afraid of the face of the face, of course lol
                      1. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 27 March 2021 10: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        These Nazis did NOT run anything in Russia and were arrested for Russophobia

                        Can I link to the documents in the criminal case?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the captain of the UNRM is fine

                        It was just such "captains of the UNR" that the community was encouraged. I served a term in the WZO. The officers would not have supported the fellowship, there would not have been such a mess in the WZO.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        There were many and together they made up Russian Bessarabia, and YOU made mono-national Moldova

                        The USSR only legalized what in fact happened under the interim government, and you are well aware of this and nevertheless distort.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        what is "bad" said, liar?

                        But what about without insults? Are the arguments running out?
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 March 2021 11: 24
                        -2
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Can I link to the documents in the criminal case?

                        is there an educational program?
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        It was just such "captains of the UNR" that the community was encouraged. I served a term in the WZO. The officers would not have supported the fellowship, there would not have been such a mess in the WZO.

                        we didn't have a mess
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        The USSR only legalized what in fact happened under the interim government, and you are well aware of this and nevertheless distort.

                        don't talk nonsense: Bessarabia was a multinational RUSSIAN province, where Moldovans were a minority. It was returned by the Romanians in 1940 in June, and already in August, against the will of the people, they came up with some kind of almost mono-national ... "MSSR", cutting off the Novorossiysk South with a pro-Russian population from it.

                        And yes: under the VP, there was NOT ANY independence, ALL independence was declared after the thief, on the basis of HER stupid decrees and recognized by the Bolsheviks
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        But what about without insults? Are the arguments running out?

                        Comrade is lying (that is, he cannot give a single example of "chauvinism"), but he insults others with chauvinists, which is what he was told. It's like that.
                      3. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 27 March 2021 13: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Can I link to the documents in the criminal case?

                        is there an educational program?

                        Well, you understand the local rules? Since the link to the documents was not provided, it means they lied. So, congratulations lied?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        we didn't have a mess

                        Wasn't there a mess in the construction battalion? In the WZO, officers with the UPR, as well as company commanders, were engaged in encouraging hazing, encouraged such an ugly phenomenon as a community, so that it would be more convenient to steal building materials, plumbing, electrics, and so on. He served 88-90 Khimki.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        don't talk nonsense: Bessarabia was a multinational RUSSIAN province, where Moldovans were a minority. It was returned by the Romanians in 1940 in June, and already in August, against the will of the people, they came up with some kind of almost mono-national ... "MSSR", cutting off the Novorossiysk South with a pro-Russian population from it.

                        You either do not understand at all what you are writing about, or you are deliberately misleading members of the forum. In almost all the outskirts of the Republic of Ingushetia there was a very strong separatist national movement, which raised its head under the interim government. By the time the Bolsheviks came to power, almost all the outskirts were independent from the center. Something the communists collected under the RSFSR, and something they were able to collect only in the form of various SSRs, encouraging communist movements in the republics. With the coming to power of your like-minded people in the 90s, all the outskirts again broke away from the center, so that it would be more convenient to drag public property into private pockets.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And yes: under the VP, there was NOT ANY independence, ALL independence was declared after the thief, on the basis of HER stupid decrees and recognized by the Bolsheviks

                        Learn materiel, the example of Finland, Poland, the Baltic States, Armenia, Don, Kuban, no DVR? In what year were the Dashnaks crushed, for example? Now the Dashnaks are quite an official party in Armenia, under the leadership of your like-minded people, the same nationalist parties flourished throughout the post-Soviet space. They flourished simply because, under the guise of nationalism, it is more convenient for your like-minded people to plunder their peoples.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Comrade is lying (that is, he cannot give a single example of "chauvinism"), but he insults others with chauvinists, which is what he was told. It's like that.

                        Do you want examples of Great Russian chauvinism in Ingushetia? Then start with the study of the Jewish question, with the Black Hundred movement, with the attitude towards the Poles, with the attitude towards the peoples of the north, and there are many examples of this. RI was an ugly, feudal archaic state. Have you read classical literature at school? Read Dostoevsky, Gorky, Ostrovsky, Radishchev, at last, and that's the right word, sometimes I'm ashamed of you. It happens that you write that it does not climb into any gate. The impression is that you draw all your knowledge from the filing of the post-perestroika magazine "Ogonyok" or "Speed ​​Info". hi
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 March 2021 16: 28
                        -2
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Well, you understand the local rules? Since the link to the documents was not provided, it means they lied. So, congratulations lied?

                        I repeat: this is not an educational program: you do not know that the Earth is round, your choice.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Wasn't there a mess in the construction battalion? In the WZO, officers with the UPR, as well as company commanders, were engaged in encouraging hazing, encouraged such an ugly phenomenon as a community, so that it would be more convenient to steal building materials, plumbing, electrics, and so on. He served 88-90 Khimki.

                        Once again, I repeat, everywhere I served, there was a mess (except for the building itself, when they were building, they were demolishing it ... and building it again), basically, it WAS NOT, and the soldiers were fed normally and the discipline was, on the whole, normal.
                        "Soldiers are OUR CHILDREN !!" -drumbled to us every evening by the unit commander and was required in the same vein. And in the other and third parts, it was about the same.

                        In the woods, on business trips, it was tougher there, but this is understandable

                        He was the foreman and the head of the UNRM section, I did not steal ANYTHING and I do not know the others, except for the little things, the transport: no one got rich (we still call back), although the resources were huge
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Learn materiel, the example of Finland, Poland, the Baltic States, Armenia, Don, Kuban, no DVR?

                        NO-teach the History of the country-NO ONE independence before the THIEF. Dot.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Do you want examples of Great Russian chauvinism in Ingushetia?

                        an unknown person accused me of chauvinism.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        RI was an ugly, feudal archaic state.

                        It was a unique, wonderful State, free and developing, where ALL nations and nationalities survived and developed, see. to the USA, Australia, etc.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Read Dostoevsky, Gorky, Ostrovsky, Radishchev,

                        advise, yes, from Ostrovsky that, on the national question.lol
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        and then the right word, sometimes ashamed of you.

                        so with all those who do not know.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        It happens that you write that it does not climb into any gate. The impression is that you draw all your knowledge from the filing of the post-perestroika magazine "Ogonyok" or "Speed ​​Info"

                        have you denied something? No?

                        Funny. lol
                2. Unknown
                  Unknown 27 March 2021 14: 34
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  lie, give a specific example. You can not? No!
                  ... Not ashamed?

                  Calm down, without hysterics, I have nothing to do, as in the old comments to look for. Remember yourself, maybe refresh your memory.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Little Russians are the Russian people and they have no separate history.

                  So we are not talking about Little Russians, about others. Immediately answer about chauvinism, denying other people in culture and history, this is natural chauvinism, these idiots, have harmed the Russians more than all revolutions, coups taken together. In such a multinational country as R.I. or the USSR, where peoples lived side by side for centuries, and everyone was mixed up, talking about the special right of Russians to rule all other peoples leads to completely different results.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  but none of the officers collected them - they themselves, and from different parts of the flock, working at the facility

                  So the officers are not very good. If the so-called officer, allowed a fight in the unit on an interethnic basis, he is not just commanding people, you cannot entrust the cows to graze, they will scatter. What kind of company commander, battalion commander, if he does not know business in a company, battalion, and in the bud to nip something like that. He was a command department, a lock, on an emergency, he was always aware of platoon affairs.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  and you told them that the LSSR is Russia?

                  No? Afraid of the face of the face, of course

                  So what is the LSSR, then? As for the muzzle, where does such a desire to kick in the face come from? Well, it was necessary to wave fists before, when they were a captain in the unit, and people of Caucasian nationality arranged battles, but now what is it. As for the Lithuanians, that Klaipeda was given to them by the USSR, we agree, but Lithuania Russia or Russia Lithuania, they argue here, they say the Russian princes went from Vitovt, and they have no desire to fight.
                3. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 March 2021 16: 45
                  -3
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Calm down, without hysterics, I have nothing to do, as in the old comments to look for. Remember yourself, maybe refresh your memory.

                  that is, you are a liar.
                  Quote: Unknown
                  So we are not talking about Little Russians, about others.

                  you lie again, it was about them.

                  Examples of my chauvinism - where? You lie again ...
                  Quote: Unknown

                  So the officers are not very good. If the so-called officer, allowed a fight in the unit on an interethnic basis, he is not just commanding people, you cannot entrust the cows to graze, they will scatter. What kind of company commander, battalion commander, if he does not know business in a company, battalion, and in the bud to nip something like that. He was a command department, a lock, on an emergency, he was always aware of platoon affairs.

                  at the facilities there were TEN parts or more.
                  Quote: Unknown

                  So what is the LSSR, then? As for the muzzle, where does such a desire to kick in the face come from?

                  you would get in any LSSR for yours: "LSSR is Russia" and you know that, but you are spinning, how can you ...
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Well, it was necessary to wave fists before, when the captain was in the unit.

                  And then did not wave
                  Quote: Unknown
                  , and Lithuania Russia or Russia Lithuania, they argue here, they say the Russian princes went from Vitovt, and they have no desire to fight.

                  once again, tell them that Lithuania is Russia.
                4. Unknown
                  Unknown 27 March 2021 18: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Your Natsiks were raised in your parties and your national universities: YOUR people invented them their "great", never existed "history," culture ", literature, YOUR attracted for this the Nazis Grushchevsky, Vinnichenko and other Russobophical abomination, which together with yours raped the Russians into "Ukrainians" and turned the Russian Nikolaevs into Mykolaevs (ugh, what disgusting!)

                  This is not chauvinism? What cultures and stories have come up with. You sweep your tongue like a broomstick.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  at the facilities there were TEN parts or more.

                  And what difference does it make. The commander must always be the commander. Of course, the construction battalion is not a full-fledged military unit, but the officers ended up there.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  And then did not wave

                  Where did the ardor come from now.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  you would get in any LSSR for yours: "LSSR is Russia" and you know that, but you are spinning, how can you ...

                  Desire splashes over the edge, but calm down, the quarantine measures will end, I'll go there again and tell you, and everything will be fine. It seems that they were a foreman, but you do not know a simple thing, they beat only those who allow them to be beaten.
                5. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 March 2021 19: 08
                  -1
                  Quote: Unknown
                  This is not chauvinism? What cultures and stories have come up with. You sweep your tongue like a broomstick.

                  learn what "chauvinism" is, ignoramus.

                  I do NOT have anything similar.

                  And the "great"ancient separate from the Russians, it was YOURS who invented the history of "Ukrainians" and raped millions of Russians into "Ukrainians" - YOURS and the Russian cities of Nikolaev raped YOURS in Mykolaiv.
                  Quote: Unknown
                  And what difference does it make. The commander should always be the commander. Of course the construction battalion not complete military unit, but the officers ended up there.

                  everything does not reach you: there were motorized riflemen and tankmen and artillerymen and missilemen and signalmen
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Where did the ardor come from now.

                  what's wrong with you? lol
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Desire splashes over the edge, but calm down, the quarantine measures will end, I'll go there again and tell you, and everything will be fine.

                  then we'll talk.
                  Quote: Unknown
                  It seems that they were a foreman, but you do not know a simple thing, they beat only those who allow them to be beaten.

                  nonsense. So there you go!
                6. Unknown
                  Unknown 27 March 2021 21: 26
                  -1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  learn what "chauvinism" is, ignoramus.

                  I do NOT have anything similar.

                  And the "great" ancient, separate from the Russian, history of Ukrainians was invented by YOURS and raped by millions of Russians into "Ukrainians" - YOURS and the Russian cities of Nikolaevs raped in Mykolayvy YOUR

                  Like no, chauvinism is militant nationalism. The ideology of chauvinism affirms the exclusivity of a particular people or race, preaches its superiority over others.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  everything does not reach you: there were motorized riflemen and tankmen and artillerymen and missilemen and signalmen

                  In the listed types of troops, the national men do not suit battles, they have to serve there, this is not a construction battalion.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  then we'll talk

                  And what can I say, before quarantine I traveled for three years in a row, and nothing.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  nonsense. So there you go!

                  It's not nonsense at all, he allowed himself to be beaten, then they will always be beaten. They carry water to the offended, and not only.
                7. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 28 March 2021 10: 27
                  -1
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Like no, chauvinism is militant nationalism. The ideology of chauvinism affirms the exclusivity of a particular people or race, preaches its superiority over others.

                  The fifth time you lie: I have no exclusivity. fool
                  Quote: Unknown
                  In the listed types of troops, the national men do not suit battles, they have to serve there, this is not a construction battalion.

                  EVERYTHING worked at those facilities, it was built for them and they also worked (common practice) - you don't even know this. What do you even know?
                  Quote: Unknown
                  What can I say, before quarantine I traveled for three years in a row, and nothing
                  the grunting ones are not touched.
                  Quote: Unknown
                  , allowed himself to be beaten, then they will always beat. They carry water to the offended, and not only.

                  Zolotar.ev - surname, apparently, yours ..

                  Tired of it, yes ...

                  Good luck!
                8. Unknown
                  Unknown 28 March 2021 11: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The fifth time you lie: I have no exclusivity

                  How is it not? Permanent approval of the type, those did not have until the age of 17, these too. Constant accusations of lies. Weren't you under investigation? The manner of getting out is familiar. I would say so, offended.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  EVERYTHING worked at those facilities, it was built for them and they also worked (common practice) - you don't even know this. What do you even know?

                  Yes, I did not often have to deal with the construction battalion, there were two construction companies in the training, I did not intersect. Further, Turkwo, field post 93992 Jalalabad, then the province of Laghman. I did not have to intersect with the construction battalion, other tasks.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  the grunting ones are not touched.

                  Talk about yourself.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Zolotar.ev - surname, apparently, yours ..

                  Tired of it, yeah ..
                  Good luck

                  On the personality switched. Not good. All the same offended immediately visible, such a breed.
  • Unknown
    Unknown 24 March 2021 10: 21
    +4
    Quote: Olgovich

    Well said and right! Terry systemic nationalists, carefully grown and nurtured by the Bolsheviks in the nat. republics, the homegrown nationalists of 1917 were no match.

    Here, in Bessarabia, tell the local nationalists how good it will be for them under the Russian monarchy. Wondering what you get in return?
    Quote: Olgovich
    that's exactly why the British left, and not because they were ... "driven away", puffing out, the Bolshevik infirmities.

    Likewise, the Americans and Franks left THEMSELVES, and the Yapps were ordered to leave the United States altogether.

    The Americans, Franks, Anglicos, do not have the habit of leaving on their own, where Gibraltar, Guantanamo, French Polynesia, Martinique, Mayotte and others have come. They leave when they demand, by force to get out.
    Quote: Olgovich
    returned, of course, in the form of the RF. But cut off by 5 million km2, thanks to the "merit" of the rkpbee

    She returned as the USSR, returning what R.I. in R. Ya. war.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 24 March 2021 09: 43
    +3
    Quote: Unknown
    a little not accurate. There were also fleets of Limitrophes, Estonia and Finland, created from the ships of the former imperial fleet

    Well, then we must also mention the flotilla of Soviet Latvia, created in March 1919, which consisted of a sea and river parts. Of course, she did not represent a significant force, only a few gunboats, TR and armored boats, but, for the sake of formality ...
    1. Unknown
      Unknown 24 March 2021 10: 30
      +1
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Well, then we must also mention the flotilla of Soviet Latvia, created in March 1919, which consisted of a sea and river parts. Of course, she did not represent a significant force, only a few gunboats, TR and armored boats, but, for the sake of formalities

      The aforementioned flotilla did not take part in the hostilities in the Baltic. But the Estonian and Finns were active in the Gulf of Finland.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 24 March 2021 16: 42
    0
    Quote: Unknown
    The combat operations of this joint squadron were not limited to the sea, they were actively shelling the coast of Estonia, occupied by the 7th Army of the Red Army, and up to the fort "Red Hill" and the battery "Gray Horse".

    In several issues of "Gangut" there was a large article on "Avtroil" and "Spartak", devoted to the circumstances of their surrender and service in the Estonian and Peruvian navies. Regarding the actions of the Estonians in the area of ​​"Krasnaya Gorka" there, EMNIP, it was written that after the first falls of 12 "shells, the Estonian Navy withdrew, not wanting to go under the fire of such calibers.
    1. Unknown
      Unknown 24 March 2021 20: 10
      0
      Of course, they did not climb much on the rampage, the loss of one or two destroyers put an end to the entire fleet of the newly-minted state, and the ground forces actively supported. her. Further along the Narva Bay, on Koporye, Estonian ships fired at the positions of the 1919th Army near Narva and the Shpilevsky lighthouse, and on May 7-15 they ensured the landing of small troops in the area of ​​Ust-Luga and Koporsky Bay.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 24 March 2021 01: 31
    0
    Quote: tatra
    In 1917, they staged a revolution to throw the parasites off the neck of the people, and

    then arrange the genocide of the Russian, Orthodox people.
    To plunge the country into a bloody civil war, to lose a lot of territories (which were later returned by Stalin). The Red Army was commanded by the Jew Trotsky, who fiercely hates the Russian people.
  • Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 24 March 2021 08: 43
    +3
    In addition to the Baltic and Northern theater of operations, battles with the British were fought in the Caspian Sea.
    https://warspot.ru/7209-morskaya-voyna-na-kaspii-god-1918-y
    1. Roman81
      24 March 2021 10: 20
      +1
      it was also interesting there, but for one post it turned out so-so about the Baltic. Here you need to write books according to your mind.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 24 March 2021 16: 22
    0
    Quote: nnz226
    The headline speaks of the Russian-English war of 1919, but only the war at sea is described, and the battles in the north of the country (Arkhangelsk, Murmansk)? Concentration camp on the island of Mudyug, who need to poke in the face of the impudent current small-bred people incessantly? And why is our Foreign Ministry crumpled?

    How many wars were there with England? More Crimean. In 1939 the British were going to bomb Baku, but they did not go to bed.
  • Moore
    Moore 25 March 2021 06: 28
    0
    And two young hooligans had their full blast
    The guys got the fucking time. Go figure it out - where is she really.
    And these did not understand - for their own Russia, as they understood it, against its eternal enemy and fought.
    When, including from some VO visitors, you hear that they will not go to fight for the Rotenbergs with the Abramovichs, these "hooligans" are invited to be remembered.
  • Azamat Ramazanov
    Azamat Ramazanov 27 March 2021 10: 06
    0
    The author is clearly rewriting history under the current authorities. The red sailors were so-so. At first, the sailors did not escape from the ships, but went to the fronts of the civil war to be counter. minded. they remained to serve not to the king so to their people. as a result, even with such weak forces they gave the mistress of England at that time. a little earlier the Tsaokits fleet led by Admiral Viren. the Kaiser's fleet was fighting. was afraid to stick out their bases.
  • Karl Ivanovich
    Karl Ivanovich 28 March 2021 14: 04
    0
    "... in the Russian Federation, a monument was erected only to Bakhtin. And that was not for the battles-victories, but for serving on the Solovki in the 20s" - where?
    In 2007, a memorial plaque was installed on the house at the 11th line of VO, 24 (architect G. S. Peichev) - text (approximately) "Here lived the commander of the submarine" Panther ".
    At the same time, in 2007, at the Smolenskoye cemetery, a monument to Alexander Nikolaevich Bakhtin was unveiled at his grave. The monument was created within the framework of the Governor's Program "100th Anniversary of the Russian Submarine Fleet in St. Petersburg" on the initiative of the St. Petersburg Club of Submariners and the family of A. N. Bakhtin. The author of the monument was the architect Gennady Peichev.
    And in Saransk, a monument was erected to another Bakhtin, who was sitting on Solovki - a philosopher who was engaged in teaching in 1919.
  • p164
    p164 10 May 2021 01: 34
    0
    Interesting. And how will historians describe the support of the Russian military to the "legitimate" authorities of some states in the fight against "illegal armed groups"?
    And if you consider how the Bolsheviks concluded a separate peace with a common enemy ...
    Just don't talk about love for the West, etc. snot. Invaders, they are occupiers. But where is the line when help in the fight against the rebels grows into banal aggression?
  • Georg Shep
    Georg Shep 25 May 2021 20: 50
    0
    The title of the article itself is nowhere more stupid. Even if we call these naval skirmishes a "war," then this one is no longer Russian, but Soviet-British. But such a name is also nonsense.