Military Review

Rostec made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center

172
Rostec made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center

Rostec made a decision to merge the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft design bureaus into a single corporate aircraft building center of the UAC. This was reported by the press service of the state corporation.


Within the framework of a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center, the UAC intends to consolidate the functions of managing the aircraft manufacturing programs of the MiG and Sukhoi Design Bureau. Also, the Tupolev, Ilyushin and Irkut corporations will be subordinate to the Center.

We are forming in Moscow a single management organization and a single center of design competencies for all UAC companies. (...) Taking into account the importance of the task, I decided to take the issue of corporate reforms under my personal control and head the Board of Directors of UAC

- said the general director of "Rostec" Sergei Chemezov.

As explained, within the framework of the reform, design schools and KB brands will remain the same, only the organizational structure of legal entities will change. It is planned that design bureaus will remain independent, but will receive new opportunities for development and new conditions within the Center.

The assessments that Sukhoi and MiG will cease to exist are too radical. Yes, the organizational form of legal entities will change, but the brands and people who make these brands will not disappear anywhere.

- said the representative of "Rostec".

It is clarified that the transfer of the design bureau to other regions is not planned, the Center itself will be located in Moscow. The reform will take place in stages and will take several years. It is planned that the optimization will save up to 130 billion rubles.
Photos used:
https://vk.com/air_public
172 comments
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  1. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 18 March 2021 13: 05
    +13
    Interested in the opinion of those who work in the Russian aviation industry, who really work?
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 18 March 2021 13: 19
      +34
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Interested in the opinion of those who work in the Russian aviation industry, who really work?

      Nobody asks their opinion, all questions are solved only by "managers".
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 18 March 2021 13: 23
        -14%
        the decision is correct - to remove from regional budgets (is it just?) 130 billion time of advice, when money was not spared - it will still be invested in the club or the pioneer camp - PASSED. The GDP and the government - for savings, even in the scrolling of money in a short circle. There will be less money to circulate between design bureaus and factories. all for yourself. overcentralization. 1 deputies will become second deputies.
        and how the locksmiths and janitors will work is not the sheriff's problem.
        1. DymOk_v_dYmke
          DymOk_v_dYmke 18 March 2021 13: 55
          +22
          Quote: antivirus
          the time of councils, when money was not spared - all the same they will invest in a club or a pioneer camp - PASSED.

          Better a club or a pioneer camp than a yacht or a villa.
          Quote: antivirus
          1 deputies will become second deputies.

          Rather, the number of deputies will double. hi
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 18 March 2021 15: 43
            +2
            the level of a corporation's competence - not tied to the level of competence of an ordinary designer - this is a market coefficient. assets, etc. ... not knowledge-skills-developments of an ordinary worker. capitalization and control of market indices - we are in a different world., for another time we live.
            WHY DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE OIL WORKERS ARE CORRECT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT STRATEGIES - AND NO FOR AVIATION?
            EXCHANGE FOR OIL-GAS IS GOOD, BUT FOR ROSTEKH, AVIATION IS BAD?
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 18 March 2021 13: 58
          +7
          Quote: antivirus
          the decision is correct - to remove from regional budgets (is it just?) 130 billion council time, when money was not spared - they will still invest in a club or a pioneer camp - PASSED. ...........

          My friend, at first I didn’t understand what you are writing. belay ...... everything is articulate and quite sane! After all, you can! recourse
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 18 March 2021 15: 46
            +1
            a friend is not enough. understanding the direction of development of the world and the country - already leads to sadness.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 19 March 2021 08: 20
              +3
              Quote: antivirus
              understanding the direction of development of the world and the country - already leads to sadness.

              Do not be sad, my friend, we are lost ..
              ..............................................................
              We died my friend.
              I swear it was perfect!
              Don't be sad my friend
              We are lucky with you:
              In the very heat of meaningless years.
              Forever leaving
              Sun of heroes
              Light up our late dawn.
              Do not be sad, we are perishing, the battle ends.
              Forever departing Sun, Sun of heroes -
              Wave goodbye!

              Every 100 years the world is in dust, but still ... the devil is alive! wink
              Do not be sad, my friend, and it will pass! drinks
              1. antivirus
                antivirus 19 March 2021 12: 01
                +1
                I agree - I hope that all the nonsense that we are living will bring the country to a new qualitative level of development and just life.
                "only that beautiful time ..."
        3. Beby
          Beby 18 March 2021 14: 02
          +25
          Unfortunately, in most cases, such "mergers", "optimizations", etc., are described quite accurately by a picture from the article "How new leaders destroy the companies entrusted to them" (https://habr.com/ru/post/297678/):
        4. Minato2020
          Minato2020 18 March 2021 15: 20
          +13
          Quote: antivirus

          The decision is correct - to remove from regional budgets (only?) - 130 billion rubles. The time of the Soviets, when they did not spare money - they will still invest in a club or a pioneer camp - PASSED ...


          From the Internet.


          Children of the Plant - "Children of the Arbat"

          I am a child of a factory, like three quarters of Samara residents. It doesn't matter what profession we chose, where we went further - we were raised by our parent plants: some - VAZ, some - "Frunze", some - "ZIM" ...
          And me - Aviation.
          Not everyone remembers who the "Children of the Arbat" are. However, perestroika began with them. This is a novel about the “plight” of the children of the nomenklatura. The novel was a revelation. Because we, factory children, did not really know anything about the repressions. And not because the textbooks were silent about it. Textbooks just reported. But because it was not our family history: workers were not imprisoned. They imprisoned and shot, in the main, the nomenclature. And as you understand, it was not factory guys who lived on the Arbat then, what now. Here the Children of the Arbat pointed a finger at us 20 years ago: "Repent!" Putting us in the "siu" pose, they arranged a holiday on their street ...
          ... 24 thousand are the production personnel of the Aviation Plant and 4 thousand are non-production personnel. 28 thousand, each with two or three children. It turns out that there are at least 100 thousand of us in Samara. Aviation children. Sit next to me at the ruins, guys. And let's remember what the parent Plant was in our life.


          ... It began for us from childhood. The Plant had 25 kindergartens. Did our mothers wait in line for years? Or did someone extort bribes from them? Moreover, the payment for the kindergarten was symbolic. And for the whole summer we were taken out "to the dacha" - a summer garden on the Frunze glade ...
          ... 7 sponsored schools were at the Aviation Plant. Do any of us remember that the director with bulging eyes rushed about in search of money for repairs? With bulging eyes, she ran on completely different occasions. And we, fools, provided many reasons for these. The director threatened to write to her parents at the plant. And this was for us fools, the last, fatal warning ...

          ... First of all, Children of the Arbat threw kindergartens off the balance sheet. They, ill, did not understand with what dedication the parents were working, knowing that the children were well fed, warmed, and a doctor was nearby. They didn't understand anything about the Factory at all ...
          ... It was profitable to take care of the workers. Because the production was organized according to the principle of the Russian artel. We will talk about what an artel is and how its laws are ineradicable in our brains and souls. This is the same riddle of the Russian worker, over which the Western masters are racking their brains. And precisely because they will not "drive in" in any way, all strikes in Russia take place precisely at foreign enterprises. I will explain everything on my fingers, and at the same time I am not in the least afraid that by doing so I will reveal our secret to foreigners: they still will not understand, because we look at the world with different eyes. Artel is a wildly effective principle of labor organization! Japan's economic wonders are based on the same scheme: artel, family. With the Japanese, strange as it may seem, we have similar brains. But with the Americans, no.


          On this artel, family principle, we mastered industrialization at a furious pace and recovered after the war. We even canceled the cards before England and others ...
          ... And spit in the eyes of someone who says we had bad planes. These were the safest and most reliable aircraft in the world! There was not a single accident on the TU-154 due to the glider's fault ...


          ... Television with respect, swallowing saliva, celebrated the anniversary of Viktor Stepanovich Chernomyrdin. According to parquet journalists, Chernomyrdin, first of all, should remain in the people's memory as the author of deep aphorisms. But you noticed, a strange thing: everything that was quoted was poor? However, if you know that the best "Chernomyrdin" aphorism "they wanted the best, but it turned out, as always," it was published in collections of aphorisms and actually belongs to the tsarist minister S.Yu. Witte, really smart person, then nothing strange.
          And the workers of our Factory remember another "aphorism" of Stepanich, from which you cannot turn away:

          "Make a decision on full exemption for a period of five years from customs duties, dues and taxes for Boeing-750 aircraft, Douglas-DC10 aircraft imported into the territory of the Russian Federation in 1994-1995 and operated on domestic and international airlines" (Order of the Prime Minister RF Chernomyrdin V.S. N1489Р dated October 7, 1996).

          And one more quote from the death sentence to ours, guys, to our native Plant:
          "Unfortunately, Recently, there has been an extremely dangerous tendency of thoughtless lobbying of the interests of the domestic aircraft building complex on the part of government agencies. We ask you to support the issue of the inadmissibility of the serial launch of the TU-204 aircraft on Russian air routes and the continuation of the doctrine of leasing advanced samples of Western aircraft."(Letter from the Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation for Economics A. Livshits to the Government of the Russian Federation NА-1-1268Л dated April 3, 1995).


          ... Once upon a time, 100 planes took off from here into the sky every year ...
          ... All "social" is destroyed ...
          ... In the former factory dispensary, drug addicts are now being pumped out ...

          https://cont.ws/@Gen-Petrich/899422
        5. New Year day
          New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 25
          +2
          Quote: antivirus
          how will the locksmiths work

          If the locksmith does not get up at the machine, then all the ideas of your managers will die without being born, especially in an uncleaned workshop. TB has not been canceled
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 18 March 2021 15: 49
            0
            30 years ago it was necessary to think about "the ways of the development of the party and the people", of society. Chemezov (and Serdyukov?) Only repeat the path of Nemtsov-Khodorkovsky and others.
            I believe that until 2005 it was necessary to pay huge factories (to support collectives - not to reduce) for the transformation of former peasants into citizens-townspeople. for the systemic growth of social relations. without yachts and billion in offshore, etc.
            did not go to the "leveling" - without crying through the hair. taking off my head.
          2. KCA
            KCA 18 March 2021 18: 46
            +1
            Locksmiths do not get up to the machine, they work with their hands, turners and milling machines are at the machine, but this was before, now they put someone at the processing station who can not sleep through the night, or, at least, hear a malfunction signal, and not thump alone in an empty workshop , where something buzzes and squeezes by itself, there are, of course, various carousel and revolving machines, but their products are single and an 80-year-old grandfather will quite cope with the volume of one part per month, or even a year. For example, at the IBR-2, neutron reflectors are made of stainless steel and weigh 60 tons, they can be made at least 5 years during the modernization of the reactor, until the next 50 years, well, if scientists do not come up with something clever
          3. Alf
            Alf 18 March 2021 23: 08
            +3
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: antivirus
            how will the locksmiths work

            If the locksmith does not get up at the machine, then all the ideas of your managers will die without being born, especially in an uncleaned workshop. TB has not been canceled

            I beg you ... The worker will be forced to clean up. During business hours. Without payment. First time, or what?
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 18 March 2021 13: 26
        +11
        Well, we are like waterfowl, there Kiriyenko and Rosatom have done what he has done! Wherever he goes everywhere, from ammunition to the person responsible for the development of the NSR.
      3. Piramidon
        Piramidon 18 March 2021 13: 49
        +4
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Nobody asks their opinion, all questions are solved only by "managers"

        There is no need to blame everything on the notorious "managers" and shout - "everything is lost!" First you need to have a complete understanding of all the pros and cons of such a combination.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 18 March 2021 14: 56
          +11
          Quote: Piramidon
          First you need to have complete an idea of ​​all the pros and cons of such a combination.

          How can one not rejoice for the interpretation from the mind. I ask you to outline the prospects for the development of this:
          It is clarified that the transfer of the design bureau to other regions is not planned, the Center itself will be located in Moscow. The reform will take place in stages and will take several years. It is planned that optimization will save up to 130 billion rubles.

          Where will these "unfortunate crumbs, pitiful 130 rubles" be sent? Searching for and attracting promising development specialists? Improving the technical capabilities of the design bureau and modernizing the technical base? Increase in the salary of Mr. Chemezov and Co.?
          It is assumed that "someone" is trying to kill two birds with one stone: to optimize the territories belonging to corporations for the sake of the Moscow mayor and his team, and to receive these 130 rubles for free use ...
          Here there are people close to Mr. Chemezov's entourage to tell what exactly this "cleverness" gave the country personally, except for these "merits":
          From 1980 he worked in the experimental-industrial association "Luch", from 1983 to 1988 he headed the representative office of the association "Luch" in the GDR (oversaw the export of mined uranium ore to the USSR), where he met Vladimir Putin. It was reported that Chemezov and Putin worked in the Dresden KGB station, lived in the same house and became friends. Based on the Stasi phone book at the time, Captain Chemezov shared one office with Major Tokarev, who later became head of Transneft.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 30
            +7
            Quote: ROSS 42
            optimize territories owned by corporations to please the Moscow mayor

            After all, it is precisely said: together the aircraft plant on Khodynka is at home, instead of the Mil plant in Lyubertsy at home.
          2. Irokez
            Irokez 18 March 2021 15: 42
            -5
            Where will these "unfortunate crumbs, pitiful 130 rubles" be sent?

            - These crumbs must still be earned in order to spend later.
            - And to save is to make money (that is, not to spend, because you spend means you spend).
            - Everyone, from the individual to the state, is engaged in economy and optimization, as it benefits everyone (and not just those of whom you think).
            1. Pass 1-2 bus stops - this is to spend on the ticket.
            2. Walking 1-2 stops will save money (win) on the ticket.
            You can feel the difference. In the capitalist world, it is a profitable business to make money like that, so there optimizers are in demand at large enterprises.
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 18 March 2021 18: 18
              +4
              Quote: Irokez
              - These crumbs must still be earned in order to spend later.

              You still tell me (all of us) that Russia is eating up its last bread without salt ... Where is the gold reserves? Where were they effectively "placed"? Where is this savings from pension reform? Where is this cheapness of energy resources from the optimization of production and sale?
              Sobyanin doesn't bother. In Moscow, janitors "remove snow" from clean asphalt with the help of hand-held snow blowers, while in our country the snowdrifts lie for weeks until they deign to start up the tractor. This year, they really got crazy. Nobody needs anything, as if they've scored everything ..
              And here 130 rubles allocated from their budget will be distributed with "great optimization" ... Or will their salaries and bonuses be cut? Yeah, I believe ... To Chemezov ...
              1. Irokez
                Irokez 19 March 2021 12: 40
                -1
                Tell me (all of us) that Russia is eating its last bread without salt

                And then there is bread when there is so much of it and salt in bulk and is exported.
                Where is the gold reserves?

                Where, where - we (the state) do not worry. If you do not know, then the excess of the established percentage of gold and foreign exchange reserves can already go to the development of the economy and other items of expenditure, and this can now be launched, so everything is OK, sleep well.
                Where is this savings from pension reform?

                The pension fund was blown away even during the effective restructuring - ask the Chubatovs about this, and therefore, even now, not everything is so rosy with the pension fund, even after your sarcasm about the pension reform.
                we have snowdrifts for weeks until they deign to start up the tractor

                This is so with you, but with others it is normal, and therefore ask the local authorities this question, but rather write to Putin that everything is gone and we are drowning in the snow.
                Yeah, I believe ... To Chemezov.

                This is your personal opinion and attitude towards it, but you do not need to agitate and promote your opinion - everyone has their own considerations, preferences and outlooks on life. And it may well be that you are mistaken with your opinion, because it is based on the self-loved individualism of your personality and you argue from yourself centric where everything is around you, but try differently, according to the state, when millions of egocentric and everyone needs to please or do so that more or less It was normal for everyone to know that it is very difficult to raise the level of normality for everyone because of the ambitions of everyone and their self-centeredness, like yours. Understandably right now, you will say, I stand up for everyone, for leveling, from each according to his ability and to each according to need, in conscience and justice. But this does not work anywhere, because communism has not yet been created, there is no justice in the world and it certainly will not be, but everyone's conscience is different and don't measure it by yourself, even if you have ideal one - others simply won't understand or won't believe. Well, there is no ideal society in life - from this and all the troubles, and to blame the government for everything is from the evil one, like how all our sworn democratic partners blame Russia for all their troubles or unnaturalness, then it intervened in the elections, then the newcomer misfired , but thank God Navalny survived, then Sputnik-V discredits their vaccine, then in general "Putin is to blame for everything." It's easier to find someone to blame than to admit your sins.
                1. Ross xnumx
                  Ross xnumx 19 March 2021 14: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: Irokez
                  This is your personal opinion and attitude towards him

                  Don't poke me, minion. Don't you like criticism? There, a number of questions were asked above. There are no answers.
                  Quote: Irokez
                  "Putin is to blame for everything." It's easier to find someone to blame than to admit your sins.

                  Flaws, you say? Yes, these are not flaws, but blunders and mediocre leadership of their subordinates. But no one forbids you to express your servility from a running start.
                  1. Irokez
                    Irokez 19 March 2021 15: 38
                    0
                    blunders and incompetent leadership of their subordinates

                    What a pity that people like YOU are not in power. I assure YOU, YOU would also lead, and if you did everything purely for the people, contrary to the requirements of the state and statehood, the state would disappear. You need to think on the scale of the STATE, not SELFOLICITY.
                    1. Ross xnumx
                      Ross xnumx 19 March 2021 18: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: Irokez
                      What a pity that people like YOU are not in power.

                      It is a pity that there are few people in power with views like mine. For me, social justice is more important, and, being not a very high boss, I did not snatch a fat jackpot for myself, and if I came across some kind of hack, even if I did it, the money was divided among the whole team.
                      I lack restraint. It was thanks to my harsh statements that I did not go to the favorites of the authorities (and most likely, I did not come out with a “face” like Vaskov Fedot Evgrafovich, and could not say nice words about “intelligence and talent” to someone who did not have it). Only I did not climb into the upper echelons of power, because I could not tolerate flattery, or lies, or hypocrisy.
                      True, in Russia there are worthy people for whom personal wealth is in last place, and I, by virtue of the past years and the accumulated experience, know how to build relations both in the state and among citizens. And you are pushing here sermons in defense of the gentleman, squeezed like a lemon into tea, with authority and obligations to friends, who does not know the realities of life in the country.
                      It is necessary to sink to abundance, when you do not have to count your own salary. Moreover, the master also does not know its size ...

                      Yes, stop talking about being too busy and tired. That is why the country provided for presidents with two terms of 4 years each. And how can a person know something about others if he does not know his own position.
                      1. Irokez
                        Irokez 22 March 2021 08: 20
                        0
                        I assure YOU to be a foreman with a good conscience and fairness is not at all like being at the head of state. There is an understanding that the "Regulation obliges" is when you have to take unpopular measures for others, but in favor of a common cause and this is a necessity that ordinary people do not understand. Even in the brigade, the respected YOU was not always sure everything was smooth and YOU punished someone. And counting other people's money is not decent and to some extent it is envy.
          3. Leon68
            Leon68 18 March 2021 19: 50
            0
            Read this one.
            https://yandex.ru/efir?from=efir&from_block=ya_organic_results&stream_id=40644c07def0815d853f36901327951c
            everything is going according to this plan, which I personally read in Sov. Secret in the year 97 somewhere.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 28
          +7
          Quote: Piramidon
          First you need to have a complete understanding of all the pros and cons of such a combination.

          All helicopters (Mi and Ka) combined, what are the advantages?
      4. Svarog
        Svarog 18 March 2021 13: 55
        +10
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Nobody asks their opinion, all questions are solved only by "managers".

        That's right .. their task is to optimize everything .. in all directions, the military-industrial complex has "coped".
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 18 March 2021 15: 11
          +4
          Quote: Svarog
          That's right .. their task is to optimize everything ..

          Today their task is that, in the event that other people come to power, nothing can be done with the economy and production (sold, given away, transferred into other hands, appropriated as a result of various privatization schemes), except nationalization, which is not will pass without economic shocks and corresponding hardships.
          In comparison with the performance results, the amount of income, the list of awards, some individuals show very modest results (more precisely, "none"). But in words it turns out that only thanks to the efforts of Kirienko, Rotenberg, Chemezov, Russians still have the opportunity to retire at 65 (if they survive) and receive at least 12 rubles for their work.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 31
            +2
            Quote: ROSS 42
            nothing can be done except nationalization,

            After such leaders, there will be nothing to nationalize
    2. NIKN
      NIKN 18 March 2021 13: 25
      +7
      Maybe it will really give something, I honestly do not know, but the chains of approvals and bureaucratic delays will obviously grow. Also, apparently, this will clip the wings for the initiative, before, somehow at their own expense and at their own expense, they tried to do something, now no one will allow it.
      I repeat that this is personal speculation, maybe there will be something positive, how the definition of important directions and the concentration of forces on the right ... I would like to, but we live in this country here too ... recourse
      1. LifeIsGood
        LifeIsGood 18 March 2021 15: 18
        -3
        Why should they grow up? Design bureaus will remain old, factories, too, ordinary workers will also remain in their places. The only one who will be affected by the changes is the bosses and, apparently, they will be downsized.
        How this can clip the wings of the initiative is also not clear. If earlier the "initiative" was shown only to be able in the future "maybe" to snatch a piece of food "if we guess", now such developments may well receive normal funding.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 33
          +4
          Quote: LifeIsGood
          these are the bosses and, apparently, they will be cut short.

          I don't know how in defense, but in medicine, before optimization, there were 3 deputy chief physicians, after optimization - 8. Previously, 3 workers sat in the OK and everything was done, now 13.
        2. Garm
          Garm 18 March 2021 15: 46
          +1
          If earlier the components were bought by the KB itself, then when it needed it, focusing on market offers, and at the market price. Now they will send an application to Moscow for a year ahead. And already Moscow will decide where and at what price to buy. And forget about the initiative, it was not agreed in advance and was included in the plan ...
          1. LifeIsGood
            LifeIsGood 18 March 2021 16: 28
            +2
            If earlier the components were bought by the KB itself, then when it needed it, focusing on market offers, and at the market price. Now they will send an application to Moscow for a year ahead. And already Moscow will decide where and at what price to buy.

            And why will the design bureau now be obliged to send an application to Moscow for a year in advance? With what fright do you think that the design bureau used to buy components at random and where is it cheaper? Or something like "let's buy ***** today." As before, contracts and plans were drawn up, so they will remain. As purchased from trusted suppliers with whom everyone will continue to buy "on ointment". Or do you think that they will just break the whole chain ... Why such confidence?

            And forget about the initiative, it was not agreed in advance and was included in the plan ...

            And what was the "initiative" not previously agreed upon and not included in the plan? Do you seriously believe this? bully
            That's how I see how the workers of the design bureau, on a dark, dark night, work behind drawers under the light of flashlights, "God forbid, someone will notice."

            All this "initiative" was discussed 100 times with the authorities, agreed and included in the work plan!
            1. vic02
              vic02 19 March 2021 12: 29
              0
              With what fright do you think that the design bureau used to buy components at random and where is it cheaper?
              All this "initiative" was discussed 100 times with the authorities, agreed and included in the work plan!
              Don't confuse design bureaus with conventional production. For development, pilot production of piece goods, you can only assume what you will need and in what quantity based on similar products developed and tested earlier. And yes, the required equipment, devices and materials must be bought directly by the team that will use them and who is responsible for the result; coordination with the superiors who are not part of this team is not required. And the Chemezovs, Serdyukovs do not bear any responsibility for the result.
    3. Cottodraton
      Cottodraton 18 March 2021 13: 44
      +2
      Nothing is known yet. At least on "Irkut" there is silence
      1. AUL
        AUL 18 March 2021 14: 19
        +12
        When in our country did optimization benefit CASE, and not optimizers?
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 18 March 2021 15: 18
          +9
          Quote: AUL
          When in our country did optimization benefit CASE, and not optimizers?

          And people completely forgot the optimization in the style of “Chubais privatization”. It has already overshadowed them that it was the optimization in the Russian Railways that gave the ticket prices exactly the same. Optimization of Aeroflot made it possible to pay much more for flights.
          And how much can you write about optimization in RAO UES, Vodokanals, after which people are simply amazed at the numbers in payments ... And this is only the visible part, what we face every day.
    4. loki565
      loki565 18 March 2021 15: 56
      +4
      Interested in the opinion of those who work in the Russian aviation industry, who really work?

      For Mig, definitely a plus, he has long worked on subsidies, now they have carried out an update at the factories and new contracts have appeared, in general, things are getting better.
    5. Clone
      Clone 18 March 2021 18: 50
      +4
      Quote: tralflot1832
      The opinion of those who work in the Russian aviation industry is interesting

      "There are no aircraft manufacturers in the management of the corporation. There are psychologists, lawyers, even a music producer. Recently, there is also a graduate of the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade with a bright furniture past. The structure is inflated at the expense of thieves and relatives. Their main strong point is the collection of work reports from the Design Bureau. , and there is no real help to the designers and designers on whom everything is based.
      Therefore, the result is obvious. All these transformations will lead to only one thing: the destruction of the domestic aviation industry. "(C)
      Igor Semenchenko,
      Leading Advisor to the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security (2003–2013), Major General of Aviation.
    6. ramzay21
      ramzay21 19 March 2021 08: 45
      0
      Any of their actions end in the same way. We wanted the best it turned out as always
  2. 113262a
    113262a 18 March 2021 13: 11
    +17
    It will be like with tanks- Of the three factories, now one-TAGIIIIIL! Kirovsky plant and Transmash-in a black body.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 18 March 2021 13: 28
      -6
      Can i ask you. Why the hell in Russia, which has thousands of tanks in storage and produces dozens of them a year for itself, three tank factories? You are interesting, like, for 30 years, there is no Union, and people still have a plant, just a place where they pay wages, and the fact that the products of this plant are not needed is not their problem.
      1. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 18 March 2021 14: 04
        +6
        Quote: EvilLion
        Can i ask you. Why the hell in Russia, which has thousands of tanks in storage and produces dozens of them a year for itself, three tank factories?

        They are also sold to many countries.
        Quote: EvilLion
        it seems like there is no Union for 30 years, and people still have a plant, just a place where they pay wages, and the fact that the products of this plant are not needed is not their problem.

        At the Kirov plant, they also made tractors, not only paid wages.
        Miraculously, he managed to survive and increase production. hi
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 18 March 2021 15: 10
          -3
          The willingness to buy tanks from other countries is several times less than the Soviet factories could offer. UVZ alone perfectly closes all contracts.

          I'd rather not talk about tractors, otherwise you will start rubbing in again about 100500 tractors that were produced by the USSR, for nothing that one modern agricultural complex on one tractor replaces a dozen Soviet tractors, and trailers with a carrying capacity of 7 tons, "Kirovites" with 300-horsepower engines no one no longer carries.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 18 March 2021 15: 15
        +1
        Quote: EvilLion
        Can i ask you. Why the hell in Russia, which has thousands of tanks in storage and produces dozens of them a year for itself, three tank factories?

        What do you mean why? To produce three types of MBT, each plant has its own. smile
        UVZ would drive T-72 with T-90, Kirovtsy - gas turbine T-80, Omsk - diesel T-80.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 18 March 2021 15: 17
          -3
          Please, don't troll me. Here, and without me, there are a lot of people willing and 3 and 33 types of tanks.
          1. 113262a
            113262a 18 March 2021 23: 17
            0
            Is it okay that the most successful tank was and is the T-80, but the mediocre T-72 survived, which it still is? And to sing the praises of mediocrity, because THERE knows better, now, is a sign of pratriotism? Send cars to the north for slaughter, just because they start THERE? And do not put those designers against the wall, whose tanks DO NOT START in the cold!
        2. 113262a
          113262a 18 March 2021 22: 56
          0
          About diesel Omsk eighties, in more detail, please!
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 March 2021 10: 41
            0
            Quote: 113262
            About diesel Omsk eighties, in more detail, please!

            Well, someone would have to replace Kharkiv, which turned out to be abroad. smile
            1. 113262a
              113262a 19 March 2021 19: 42
              0
              And how are you doing there? Are they also beyond the Arctic Circle?
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 35
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        and people still have a factory just a place where wages are paid,

        Read how at this only plant a hard worker hanged himself from non-payment of wages in the shop
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 18 March 2021 15: 41
          +1
          Weak, almost the whole country lived like this in the 90s. And she survived.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 March 2021 15: 13
      +4
      Quote: 113262
      It will be like with tanks- Of the three factories, now one-TAGIIIIIL! Kirovsky plant and Transmash-in a black body.

      There are two factories. It's just that the Omsk plant is now part of the UVZ.
      1. 113262a
        113262a 18 March 2021 23: 03
        +1
        So it will be with aviation. The winner is the one who is the most effective manager - the one who brings cuticles around the bends to the boss and the closest! They will develop a UFO-plane that DOES NOT HAVE ANALOGUES, but they will produce twenty years of AIRCRAFT-the same FLANKER (27) but sooooo modernized! By analogy with t-72BVM, then BVM_1M, then BVM_2, etc.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 March 2021 10: 50
          0
          Quote: 113262
          So it will be with aviation. The winner is the one who is the most effective manager - the one who brings cuticles around the bends to the boss and the closest!

          The amalgamation and consolidation of aircraft corporations is a global phenomenon.
          Where is McDonnell Douglas now? At Boeing. Moreover, "M-D" itself is the result of the combination of "McDonnell" and "Douglas". The same "Douglas", which is DC-3 and A-26.
          Where is Sikorsky now? At Lockheed Martin. Moreover, traditionally "L-M" itself is the result of the merger of the notorious "Lockheed" and the no less famous "Martin-Marietta".
          1. 113262a
            113262a 19 March 2021 19: 47
            0
            But it will not be so! There will be one chief designer, the units development departments will also be reduced, and unification in aviation is not the same as in other areas, experimental production is also under the knife! And all the testers in LIA!
  3. moreman78
    moreman78 18 March 2021 13: 12
    +22
    It is clarified that the transfer of the design bureau to other regions is not planned, the Center itself will be located in Moscow. The reform will take place in stages and will take several years. It is planned that the optimization will save up to 130 billion rubles.
    It's funny, that is, a certain management company is being formed (let's put it bluntly "gasket") in Moscow (which means with very good salaries). Themselves KB nobody abbreviates. And as a result, wow - savings of up to 130 billion rubles! Not a country, but a FIELD OF MIRACLES!
    1. astepanov
      astepanov 18 March 2021 13: 18
      +14
      What's so strange about that? They will put everyone in one office, other sites, including the production and testing base, will be sold for construction, and that’s the savings. The confident hand of Mr. Serdyukov is felt. True, there will still be about 400 billion debt left. Maybe it’s worth wandering under the beds - maybe they’ll scrape together a couple of hundred lards? By the way, for some reason it seems to me that the organization of tenders will be dealt with by one madam, who is also an artist, a poetess and a fighting friend, a sufferer for the truth, a relative .... Shh!
      1. Clone
        Clone 18 March 2021 14: 04
        +3
        It seems that the Serdyukov case "lives on and wins!" As a result of his previous "fruitful" activities, military schools and academies were destroyed. I had to beg the already dismissed young officers to return to the Army, there was no one to command, fly and drive equipment ... Now is it the turn of the design bureaus? So then the designers will have to be pulled out of China ... if not from the countries, the so-called "partners".
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 37
      +2
      Quote: moreman78
      Not a country, but a FIELD OF MIRACLES!

      Russia is a country where roads go around the side of the road
    3. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 18 March 2021 16: 39
      -3
      Before yelling your WOW, take an interest in the experience of other firms? US aviation firms - see how many acquisitions and mergers were there? Has it become bad? Automobile giants from different countries create conglomerates !!! Because they understand, alone they will be left overboard. And here two state corporations are uniting and a bunch of commentators "who have tremendous experience in managing corporations" came running and show their profanity.
      1. Clone
        Clone 18 March 2021 18: 14
        +2
        And it is not necessary to have "vast experience in managing corporations" in order to draw a conclusion about the inevitable losses when changing the "location" of any structure. It is enough to move yourself from one duty station to another. As we said - "One crossing is equal to two fires."
        By the way, I forgot what kind of corporation the current "aviator" Serdyukov was in charge of, before he appeared with his female battalion in the Ministry of Defense? What personal and very diverse qualities, besides the ability for a profitable marriage, allowed him to move so quickly through positions?
  4. leks
    leks 18 March 2021 13: 12
    +10
    Recently, an article on VO was that the design bureaus will be sent from Moscow to the regions.
    Here is the official information that design bureaus will not move to other regions!
    Unless, of course, they are secretly transported, but this is unlikely.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 18 March 2021 13: 27
      +3
      they will not translate - but give the task by 30% (in the outback, they will do it at half price?) from the possible, they will leave.
      1. astepanov
        astepanov 18 March 2021 16: 00
        +2
        No, everything is simpler: design bureaus is not just a place where people sit, it is an experimental base, workshops, darkness of equipment, measuring complexes ... This is what will be stolen by selling it off, and people will be seated in a more flexible way. Where does the savings of 130 lard come from? Of course, from the sale of the land, first of all.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 18 March 2021 16: 04
          0
          yes, they will reduce - at each design bureau and research and development, its own base. will do 1-2 for the whole country. reduction of everything that is possible.

          WILL LEAVE ONLY WHAT THE STATE NEEDS. private "Ansats" - separately, cutlets - separately. there will be no private corporations in the aviation industry - only the state interest (military). conceptually failed and banks will not rescue independent aircraft manufacturers in Russia.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 38
      +1
      Quote: leks
      that the design bureaus will be sent from Moscow to the regions.

      Send then they will send, that's just who gets there laughing
    3. gsev
      gsev 18 March 2021 18: 17
      +3
      Quote: leks
      KB will not move to other regions!
      Unless, of course, they are secretly transported, but this is unlikely.

      Are there really those among the designers who would dare to go to the Siberian or Ural city, where there is only one city-forming plant, instead of trying himself at least as a sales manager for bearings or going to work as a repairman of complex equipment in some company selling Chinese equipment.
  5. Cananecat
    Cananecat 18 March 2021 13: 15
    +7
    To inflate the state "for their own", children and grandchildren are growing up, they must fall somewhere to the trough.
  6. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 18 March 2021 13: 18
    +7
    It is planned that the optimization will save up to 130 billion rubles.

    Hard to believe.
    1. apro
      apro 18 March 2021 13: 22
      +6
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Hard to believe.

      When they talk about savings, and even more so they call the amounts, it means that they have found a better use of funds, for example, a palace. Or a yacht, and just transfer to a normal account in a normal bank ...
      1. Altona
        Altona 18 March 2021 13: 25
        +8
        Quote: apro
        When they talk about saving, and even more so, they call the amount.

        -------------------------
        When one of two firms is made, it means that the real estate in the center of one firm can be successfully pushed, the staff can be reduced and shoved into the outskirts of the buildings of another firm.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 18 March 2021 13: 50
        +4
        Quote: apro
        When they talk about savings, and even more so they call the sums, it means that they have found the best use of funds, for example, a palace.

        It’s a palace or something else, but the managers don’t do anything just like that. Moreover, it is free of charge, this is not theirs.
  7. Altona
    Altona 18 March 2021 13: 20
    +16
    "Goodbye engineer! Hello manager!" That's all these perturbations.
  8. Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 18 March 2021 13: 20
    +8
    Well, everything, khan and here the "optimizers" got there.
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 18 March 2021 13: 43
      +14
      Money saved is money earned (Henry Ford).
      As it is understood by "managers", in terms of costs and profits.

      And, in general, for a "production organism" two "kidneys" are an unforgivable luxury, like "ten fingers".
  9. Professor
    Professor 18 March 2021 13: 21
    +26
    All. The legendary MiG was finally killed. recourse
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 18 March 2021 13: 51
      -5
      Quote: Professor
      All. The legendary MiG was finally killed.

      And you are a professor and you can wash it logically. I approve.
    2. IL-18
      IL-18 18 March 2021 14: 47
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      All. The legendary MiG was finally killed. recourse

      Alas, but rarely, when I agree with you.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 March 2021 15: 18
      +6
      Quote: Professor
      All. The legendary MiG was finally killed. recourse

      Over the past 20 years, the epithet "legendary" is the best description of the MiG.
      A legend of the past, surviving on rare orders and itself telling legends about the MiG-35 with AFAR.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 41
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        A legend of the past, surviving on rare orders and itself telling legends about the MiG-35 with AFAR.

        Is it different somewhere with us? Legendary Tu, Il, Yak, Ka, Mi ...
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 39
      0
      Quote: Professor
      All. The legendary MiG was finally killed.

      Is there only one MiG!
  10. yfast
    yfast 18 March 2021 13: 24
    +6
    Savings of 130 billion in the future, and how much will be spent on the merger? Will the competition disappear completely?
  11. EvilLion
    EvilLion 18 March 2021 13: 26
    -8
    It's high time, otherwise the MiG is only to be buried.
  12. Trickster
    Trickster 18 March 2021 13: 27
    -6
    It was high time to do it. Now migrants who have already released 6 planes in recent years are minus.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 42
      +2
      Quote: Trickster
      migrants who have already released 6 planes in recent years.

      Is it their fault or their misfortune? Maybe they don't want to work? Or, nevertheless, do not give?
  13. Siberian54
    Siberian54 18 March 2021 13: 33
    +8
    It looks like another step towards the destruction of the symbols of the USSR ... MIG and SU will also leave circulation ...
    1. Clone
      Clone 18 March 2021 14: 07
      0
      In honor of the chief of the reforms will be "CEP-1". sad
      1. V.I.P.
        V.I.P. 18 March 2021 14: 14
        +8
        Not. Will- "NAVM" (there is no analogue in the world) laughing
  14. Emil Azeri
    Emil Azeri 18 March 2021 13: 36
    -9
    Quote: Professor
    All. The legendary MiG was finally killed. recourse

    Maybe, on the contrary, there will be a MIG push?
    1. DymOk_v_dYmke
      DymOk_v_dYmke 18 March 2021 14: 10
      +3
      Quote: Emil Azeri
      Maybe, on the contrary, there will be a MIG push?

      Or a kick.
      However, the word "push" has two meanings ... hi
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 44
      +4
      Quote: Emil Azeri
      Maybe, on the contrary, there will be a MIG push?

      In the back. Push the falling one - that's what it's called. Modern, without sentimentality
  15. rocket757
    rocket757 18 March 2021 13: 37
    +1
    Rostec made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center
    Is this good or ... as always, will it work ???
    1. DymOk_v_dYmke
      DymOk_v_dYmke 18 March 2021 14: 13
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Is this good or ... as always, will it work ???

      "This has never happened - and here it is again!"
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 March 2021 14: 26
        -1
        How many attempts do we have? Trinity ....
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 45
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          How many attempts do we have? Trinity

          They trained on the pension reform 5 times and there is no result. Again we were going to reform. This is such a disease - to break everything and create nothing adequate in return
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 18 March 2021 15: 49
            +1
            The one who KNOWS TO DO and breaks carefully, according to the mind ... but the current ones do not have a list of achievements, nowhere and in nothing. The result is now having our retirees very hurt.
            I would say that it is sad, but it is much worse.
      2. IL-18
        IL-18 18 March 2021 14: 50
        +3
        Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
        Quote: rocket757
        Is this good or ... as always, will it work ???

        "This has never happened - and here it is again!"

        Can the investigative committee get involved right away? Well, in order not to fully optimize it.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 46
          -1
          Quote: IL-18
          the investigative committee immediately connect?

          They are also optimized laughing Everything is in optimization
    2. WIKI
      WIKI 18 March 2021 14: 26
      0
      Quote: rocket757
      Is this good or ... as always, will it work ???

      There is one good point. The general director of the state corporation "Rostec" will head the board of directors of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) instead of Serdyukov.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 March 2021 14: 51
        +3
        Quote: WIKI
        instead of Serdyukov.

        Do you think that the place will not be found? Very optimistic ...
  16. Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 18 March 2021 13: 37
    +7
    Quote:
    We form in Moscow unified management organization and a single center of design competencies for all UAC companies. (...) Taking into account the importance of the task, I decided to take the issue of corporate reforms under my personal control and head the Board of Directors of UAC
    - said the general director of "Rostec" Sergei Chemezov.


    As explained, as part of the reform, design schools and KB brands will remain the same. only the organizational structure of legal entities will change... It is planned that design bureaus will remain independent, but will receive new opportunities for development and new conditions within the Center.

    So, there will be no competition between design bureaus for technical specifications of the customer? The head of the single managing organization will decide which project to finance?
    A design school and a brand is not only experience, development and assembly, but also a legal entity as an economic entity with the right to conclude transactions, fulfill obligations, in order to make a profit.
    It is not clear what it means: the organizational structure of legal entities will change. "I know the organizational and legal form of legal entities, according to the laws of the Russian Federation:" About LLC ";" About JSC ";" About state and municipal enterprises. "
    1. Dmitry V.
      Dmitry V. 18 March 2021 14: 01
      +19
      Quote: Lynx2000
      It is not clear what it means: the organizational structure of legal entities will change. "


      this is a term veiled for the common people - unfriendly takeover
      Quote: Lynx2000
      So, there will be no competition between design bureaus for technical specifications of the customer?


      Exactly - now Rostec will determine who to give those tasks and no competition - they will take what they get and for any money that Rostec and specifically Chemezov will appoint.

      Quote: Lynx2000
      We are forming in Moscow a unified management organization and a unified center of design competencies for all UAC companies.

      This means adding technologies and new developments into a common pot - good from the point of view of existing technologies and completely kills the incentive for further development.

      constructor - develops a node that will improve parameters and reduce weight - another constructor takes this node from the database, slightly changes it and puts it into the project under his own name ...
      Once it will ride, the second time the designers will just sit out the time and make fake reports that the development progress was 65 percent ...
      Mediocrity - who commands the designers - absolute mediocrity!
      They do not even try to take into account the personal ambitions of designers and scientists - and the USSR took advantage of this - highlighting personal cars, dachas, awards, prizes, titles.
      But there was real competition between rocket design bureaus, engine engineers, aviation design bureaus, tank builders - there was competition in the USSR.
      But under state capitalism of the Russian Federation - no. This is state idiocy!
      1. IL-18
        IL-18 18 March 2021 14: 54
        +9
        Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
        They do not even try to take into account the personal ambitions of designers and scientists - and the USSR used this - highlighting personal cars, dachas,

        And has anyone seen over the past 30 years that the leadership of a budgetary organization cares about the efficiency of the enterprise, and not about personal material well-being? Me not.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 March 2021 15: 19
      +1
      Quote: Lynx2000
      So, there will be no competition between design bureaus for technical specifications of the customer?

      Was she? When was the last time MiG and Su competed?
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 48
      -2
      Quote: Lynx2000
      The design school and brand is not only about experience, development and assembly,

      It's a NAME! Reputation!
  17. GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 18 March 2021 13: 40
    +1
    The idea may be correct, but it will probably turn out as always.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 18 March 2021 13: 54
      +9
      Quote: GRIGORIY76
      The idea it may be correct, only it will probably work out as always.

      Wrong answer. The idea is being implemented by 150%. request as always. Financial flows will run on the "right" channel ....
  18. Graz
    Graz 18 March 2021 13: 43
    +11
    heh, officials will proliferate again, and designers and engineers will decrease
    1. IL-18
      IL-18 18 March 2021 14: 55
      +4
      Quote: Graz
      designers and engineers will decrease

      And their salary will decrease.
  19. Klingon
    Klingon 18 March 2021 13: 47
    +8
    the inflator of the new bureaucratic apparatus, which, moreover, will decide everything for everyone. Competition and initiatives were killed in the end, and the saved tugriks will go to finance this very new "Organ" wassat
  20. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 18 March 2021 13: 50
    +4
    Well, the end of the Mikoyan Design Bureau has come - an unfriendly takeover
    I wonder what next idiot in the government thought that feeding the brains of designers is not profitable?
    There is no competition between design bureaus - you will receive what "worked out" and not what could have been ...
    Kapets highly intelligent development.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 18 March 2021 14: 06
      +1
      Well, this is a global trend.

      How many combat aircraft manufacturers are left in the United States? Two. But there were more than a dozen. And everyone has their own style. The same F-5, F-14 or F-105 - appeared only thanks to fresh approaches and various innovative concepts. And they competed with projects L and B - but they won, and sometimes L and B tensed and they won, their planes went into series. And now L&B have devoured all the design bureaus and manufacturers, and Northrop has withdrawn.

      How many combat aircraft manufacturers are there in France? Only Dassault survived.

      How many in the UK? Suddenly 0,5 - BAE, which, without partners, can only produce the Havk TCB.

      Eurofighter was made in a club by 4.
      Tempest is made at 5, and FCAS (alternative superfighter) in general by all aerospace enterprises of the EU (Safran, Thales, MTU, Indra Spain, Airbus, Dasso, Leonardo).
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 18 March 2021 14: 19
        +4
        Quote: donavi49
        How many combat aircraft manufacturers are there in France? Only Dassault survived.


        And where are modern competitive developments there?
        Quote: donavi49
        How many combat aircraft manufacturers are left in the United States? Two.

        and this is the minimum when competition is still possible

        How much will we have? One ...
        In the aircraft industry, everything has long been very deplorable - the uncontested long-term construction of the Su-57 is quite indicative.
        Even the Indians did not dare to join the consortium - and there are good reasons for that.

        Where is the world's bestseller Super Jet? Failure.
        and this is because the money was not given to someone who had experience and competence.
        And in the UAC, you also do not take into account the undercover struggle for financing.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 18 March 2021 14: 40
          +2
          And where are modern competitive developments there?


          Rafal got the MiG from the Indians. Rafal got the Su-30 from Field Marshal Sisi.


          Participation in the FCAS program is 5 ++ / 6 generation.



          Where is the world's bestseller Super Jet? Failure.


          The most successful Russian civil aircraft for a minute. On orders in the class, it is second only to Embraer and Bombardier (which has already left the scene because CRJ is finishing off the last options, and the newcomer is Watermelon200 and he is more likely a competitor to the younger 737 and MC21). At the same time, bypassing the Chinese and Mistubishi.

          Another thing is that they caught a mountain in Indonesia - in fact, it was -80-120 boards at once, according to the KLA. We miscalculated the service very badly. As a result, the companies looked at it and decided that it would be more expensive than a new leasing Boeing or Watermelon to get the planes off the ground and wait for some thread for 1,5-2 months. This seriously undermined the European direction, where they are trying to squeeze every hour out of the plane and simple waiting for details, this is a very tough flight. Well, and then politics finished off export prospects.

          Tu-334 - initially had 0 chances. Moreover, after 2014, it would not have been possible to assemble a single board at all. For there 40% of the aircraft was made by Ukrainian cooperation.

          The MS-21 also has few export prospects, if anything.
      2. Altona
        Altona 18 March 2021 16: 52
        +3
        Quote: donavi49
        How many combat aircraft manufacturers are left in the United States?

        --------------------------
        Well, yes, judging by your thesis "we are in trend". And positive or negative, this trend is the tenth thing.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 18 March 2021 17: 31
          +1
          Well, under Stalin in the USSR, there was one of the famous:
          KB Belyaev
          KB 43 (Tairov)
          OKB-31
          Separate aviation engineering group of Matus Bisnovat
          KB-30 Shevchenko-Niktin
          engineering group of plant 81 with chief designer Leonid Panteleevich Kurbala (worked on a new generation close-range bomber)
          Tomashevich-Bolotnikov group at TsKB-29
          KB of plant 39 with group of companies Kochergin and Yatsenko
          Plant Group 135 with Grushin.

          And this, in addition to all the Sukikhs, Polikarpovs, Tupolevs, Ilyushins, Lavochkins, Yakovlevs and others. So in Brezhnev times, you could also grumble - WHAT THE AVIASTROY WAS UP TO THERE WAS 50+ KB UNDER STALIN, AND NOW!
    2. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 18 March 2021 14: 54
      -1
      what other idiot in the government thought that feeding the brains of designers is not profitable?
      In fact, it is the brains that should feed the government, and not vice versa. If the "brains" do not bring money, they do not work, this is a cancerous tumor.
      No competition between KB
      It has been gone for a long time already, "Mig" cannot even modernize old machines with dignity, there is nothing to say about new developments.
      Kapets highly intelligent development.
      Nobody bothers to cooperate and compete with foreign manufacturers.
      Where is the world's bestseller Super Jet? Failure.
      The "superjet" itself is not a failure; there are big problems in the absence of a developed service infrastructure. This is already a long-standing tradition of any state-owned enterprise - to buy / sell an airplane / tank / ship / tractor, to write bonuses for a "plan" ... and to send / write off new equipment to ferrous metal in a couple of years.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 52
        0
        Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
        The "superjet" itself is not a failure; there are big problems in the absence of a developed service infrastructure.

        And what prevents it from developing in the producing country!
        1. Nestor Vlakhovski
          Nestor Vlakhovski 18 March 2021 16: 12
          +3
          And what prevents it from developing in the producing country!
          Lack of incentive gets in the way. When indicators in reports become more important than profitability, this is the situation. If an enterprise does not live at its own expense, it will try to snatch from the state treasury as much as possible, like any other budget organization.
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 18 March 2021 15: 50
      +1
      Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
      the end of the Mikoyan Design Bureau came - an unfriendly takeover
      I wonder what the next idiot in the government,

      There was such a Poghosyan, so they threw him for incompetence. Now the rector of the Moscow Aviation Institute, teaches students how to destroy competitors in aviation and build aircraft from imported components
  21. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 18 March 2021 13: 52
    -1
    Rostec made a decision to merge the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft design bureaus into a single corporate aircraft building center of the UAC.
    It is sad.
    The assessments that Sukhoi and MiG will cease to exist are too radical. Yes, the organizational form of legal entities will change, but the brands and people who make these brands will not disappear anywhere.
    Brad. fool It's not legal. faces, and in impoverishment Fin. streams.
    It is planned that the optimization will save up to 130 billion rubles.
    Who would doubt that. Optimizing at the expense of quality. request
  22. RMT
    RMT 18 March 2021 13: 53
    +1
    130 billion in several years .... How many years?
  23. alekc75
    alekc75 18 March 2021 13: 57
    +2
    what exactly is the optimization ????
  24. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 18 March 2021 13: 58
    -4
    It seems that Chemezov will replace Serdyukov in the UAC. The design bureaus will not unite, they will cut the management and service staff. Somehow on paper.
  25. Yarik
    Yarik 18 March 2021 14: 01
    0
    This is because there are few stars on the shoulder straps for someone, and at the same time it is much easier to cut the cache.
  26. vadivm59
    vadivm59 18 March 2021 14: 07
    +5
    I especially liked "... I made the decision to head the board of directors." and there was already a similar office in the 30s, TsKB-29. history teaches that it does not teach anything.
  27. Siberian54
    Siberian54 18 March 2021 14: 13
    0
    [quote = Mavrikiy] [quote] Rostec has decided to merge the MiG and Sukhoi aircraft design bureaus into a single corporate aircraft building center of the UAC. [/quote] Sadly. [quote] Estimates that Sukhoi and MiG will cease to exist are too radical. Yes, the organizational form of legal entities will change, but the brands and people who make these brands will not disappear anywhere [/ quote] Nonsense. fool It's not legal. faces, and in impoverishment Fin. streams. [quote] It is planned that the optimization will save up to 130 billion rubles. [/ quote] Who would doubt it. Oh .. Does the new Russian brand MS say anything to you?
  28. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 March 2021 14: 14
    +2
    It is clarified that the transfer of the design bureau to other regions is not planned, the Center itself will be located in Moscow

    He breathed a sigh of relief. Already good
  29. ASG7
    ASG7 18 March 2021 14: 19
    0
    This is how many effective managers will stick to such a tasty morsel. Chase them out before it's too late. All harm comes from good intentions, the only hope is on the experience of previous generations, but for now everything is decided by Money.
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth 18 March 2021 14: 50
      +3
      This is how many effective managers will stick to such a tasty morsel

      Count for yourself. From top to bottom: 1. Rostec 2. UAC 3. Unified aircraft manufacturing center (in the plans) 4. Local effective managers.

      The design team must feed all of the above. And for what remains, and myself.
  30. evgen1221
    evgen1221 18 March 2021 14: 25
    0
    Well, in a moment it is clear what is needed from su and what is the use, but what about that? Have you ever had a competitor at the expense of your sales? And in general, in the light of all the habits of our effective, little is believed in success, rather they are united so that it would be easier to separate with one concern.
  31. Emil Azeri
    Emil Azeri 18 March 2021 14: 35
    0
    Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
    Quote: Emil Azeri
    Maybe, on the contrary, there will be a MIG push?

    Or a kick.
    However, the word "push" has two meanings ... hi

    Most of all I was afraid that in this sense they would understand.)

    Calling only MIG legendary, the question arises, why is he the only one legendary? Why is this SU not legendary?
    (Although he himself is now behind MIG 35 with two hands.)
  32. Kushka
    Kushka 18 March 2021 14: 35
    +2
    Quote: Cottodraton
    Nothing is known yet... At least......


    The grandchildren gave Miho's grandfather a watch for his anniversary.
    Taught - when the big arrow comes to 12,
    the small one shows how many hours.
    On Sunday, Miho's grandfather, all of himself went down
    from the mountains to the bazaar. He was immediately surrounded and asked -
    Miho, how many hours? He looked at his watch, and the little
    the arrow has not yet reached 12.
    Not yet knownhe replied.
  33. Ros 56
    Ros 56 18 March 2021 14: 38
    0
    As explained, within the framework of the reform, design schools and KB brands will remain the same, only the organizational structure of legal entities will change. It is planned that design bureaus will remain independent, but will receive new opportunities for development and new conditions within the Center.

    More specifically, what are the new opportunities and new conditions?
    And the first grader will be able to write just about anything.
  34. iouris
    iouris 18 March 2021 14: 39
    -9
    It is high time. Most of the work is done by the Intel processor, SolidWorks software, and monitor.
  35. avia12005
    avia12005 18 March 2021 14: 39
    +4
    Where Serdyukov is, there is success, there is victory. For him, but not for Russia.
  36. APASUS
    APASUS 18 March 2021 14: 43
    +2
    Optimization according to Serdyukovski continues. It remains to wait when Sukhoi is flooded and that's it, we are buyers of weapons
  37. The comment was deleted.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 18 March 2021 14: 56
      +7
      Well, here's the question, but the meaning:
      - There is no UVT, its heavy Su-30 from Irkut will pull into the BVB.
      - He himself was heavier to the limit in this glider.
      - For the price came close to the Su-30 from Ikrut.
      - In terms of capabilities, it still seriously lags behind the Su-30 from Irkut.
      - No unification, additional logistics chain.
      - It is still very unclear about airborne radar and avionics in general. Without AFAR, this is a museum exhibit with a slotted Beetle, the 80s are back, so to speak.
  38. Minato2020
    Minato2020 18 March 2021 14: 48
    +1
    From the Internet
    In October 2018, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree transferring 92,31% of UAC shares to Rostec. In July 2019, Sergei Chemezov informed the head of state about the need to capitalize the company by 300 billion rubles, and Putin approved it. In March last year, it was announced that the process of UAC joining Rostec was completed.

    In August last year, the industrial director of the Rostec aviation cluster, Anatoly Serdyukov, said that the UAC's debts to banks amount to about 530 billion rubles. RBC's source in the military-industrial complex notes that the debt has grown since then. “About 80 million rubles are spent on servicing it. a day, ”he explained.

    Serdyukov said that 530 billion rubles. - these are the old debts of the KLA, formed as a result of the implementation of state tasks. “UAC was forced to receive loans for the solution of these tasks on very unfavorable terms, which were at that time,” explained the head of the aviation cluster. Chemezov in an interview with RBC that these are actually bad loans received in the late 1990s, in the early 2000s.


    That is, the reform is being carried out in order to write off the UAC's debts to banks, which arose mainly due to the pushing of the Super-plane project, and the former head of the UAC went to teach with honor and no one is responsible ...

    The Internet remembers ...


    In April 2010, Putin said that the main success in the aviation industry was “the Sukhoi-Superjet-100 passenger airliner was certified and launched into series. The portfolio of firm orders for this machine already totals 150 pieces. This year Aeroflot will purchase 10 of these machines on lease terms. Aeroflot will receive its first aircraft in mid-May ... This is our first civil aircraft, which is made exclusively in digital form, this is a new step, this is a good event.

    In fact, Poghosyan deceived the country and Putin personally, who for two years in a row, reporting on the activities of the Russian government in 2010 and 2011, at the suggestion of Poghosyan, speaks of the "Superjet" as an allegedly convincing breakthrough, setting a model for the government's actions in the field of aviation and mechanical engineering and industry in general.

    I would like to believe that the whole story with the Sukhoi Superjet will become the subject of the most close study and investigation by an authoritative body, ideally a direct presidential commission on the state of the Russian aviation industry and aviation. It is required to connect, in addition to the Accounts Chamber, other bodies. For the surrender of Russian aviation to foreign geoeconomic competitors in the last quarter of a century, everyone who had a hand in this should fully answer.

    https://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2012/05/10/aviasoobshchenie-v-rossii/otets-superdzheta-obmanul-i-putina-i-stranu
  39. Emil Azeri
    Emil Azeri 18 March 2021 14: 51
    -2
    Fans and Fans MIG-35 Unite





    Our hope never dies
  40. ironic
    ironic 18 March 2021 14: 53
    +1
    So that is all. Brands may remain, as will some of the people, but there will no longer be two independent firms and intellectual concepts.
  41. Minato2020
    Minato2020 18 March 2021 14: 54
    +6
    Along with the decrease in the number of design schools, ideas will dwindle, the view on the problem will become more and more one-sided.
    Among domestic aviation design bureaus traditionally competed for a couple of firms in each class of aircraft, which was only for the benefit of the common cause.
    In the USSR it was -

    Fighters: Mikoyan-Yakovlev

    Attack aircraft: Ilyushin-Sukhoi

    Bombers: Tupolev-Myasishchev

    Transport aviation - Ilyushin

    Of course, there were cases of protectionism, when promising projects were closed or transferred to a competing firm. For example, M-50 Myasishchev and the T-4 Sotka project were closed, and all the developments were transferred to Tupolev.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 March 2021 16: 20
      +3
      Quote: Minato2020
      Among domestic aviation design bureaus traditionally competed for a couple of firms in each class of aircraft, which was only for the benefit of the common cause.
      In the USSR it was -

      Fighters: Mikoyan-Yakovlev

      Sukhoi (and Tupolev) were also added to interceptors and fighter-bombers. And then Su climbed into the clean fighters.
      Quote: Minato2020
      Attack aircraft: Ilyushin-Sukhoi

      Competition came to naught under the NSH due to the disappearance of the Stormtrooper class. The IBA appeared, in which Mikoyan and Sukhoi competed. And when the attack aircraft rose from the ashes, Sukhoi had no competitors.
      Quote: Minato2020
      Bombers: Tupolev-Myasishchev

      In FBA - Tupolev, Ilyushin and Sukhoi again. smile
      Quote: Minato2020
      Transport aviation - Ilyushin

      Why was Antonov offended? smile
      Quote: Minato2020
      For example, M-50 Myasishchev and the T-4 Sotka project were closed, and all the developments were transferred to Tupolev.

      The M-50 project was closed due to a lack of characteristics caused by an increase in the mass of an empty car due to technical and technological problems. There, one additional sealing of the fuel compartments cost what - instead of the calculated 1,5 kg / sq.m, in real life it turned out to be 6 kg / sq.m. EMNIP, the total overweight was more than 20 tons.
      And when the plane began to fly more or less normally, it was no longer needed. For ICBMs went to the Strategic Missile Forces. The aircraft could have saved the conversion into an ALCM carrier - but even a semi-submerged suspension worsened aerodynamics, and the niche of "heavy ALCM DD carriers" was already occupied by the upgraded Tu-95s.
  42. Kushka
    Kushka 18 March 2021 15: 17
    +1
    Quote: Fan-Fan
    Well, everything, khan and here the "optimizers" got there.


    Khrushchev applauds from there.
    He was also an optimizer-enlarger,
    the creator of the economic councils.
    It ended in queues for pea bread.
    1. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 18 March 2021 15: 40
      -1
      He was also an optimizer-enlarger
      Large agricultural holdings are much more productive than small agricultural holdings, which has been known since the 19th century (and maybe even earlier)
      It ended in queues for pea bread.
      It all ended with the fact that under Khrushchev there was the only period in Soviet history when country A) did not starve B) did not buy food abroad.
      Under Stalin, mass famine with the extinction of the provinces was common, and you are here trying to reproach Khrushchev with temporary queues.
      Khrushchev applauds from there.
      Was it not under Khrushchev that Soviet aviation was at its peak? Already about Brezhnev's stagnation, this cannot be said, and with a mustache with aviation, everything was also not easy.
      1. Kushka
        Kushka 18 March 2021 16: 08
        0
        In 1962, I was 10. I only remember how
        my mom took me to the store so that
        there were two people and they gave two loaves
        black bread, inside which there was a whole
        peas. As it was under Stalin, sorry not
        I remember, on March 5, 1953, I was 15 minutes
        days a year.
        1. Nestor Vlakhovski
          Nestor Vlakhovski 18 March 2021 16: 19
          0
          Unfortunately, or fortunately, I only saw the 80s. And then there were queues not only for buns, but in general for everything. My friends and I spent half of our “happy” childhood in queues while our parents worked hard at the factory for “free” housing, “free” medicine with education, and beggarly salaries.
          But I remember well the stories of my old people who, with tears in their eyes, told about the death of my relatives from hunger during the times of the mustachioed "sage - superstrateg", who out of excess of personal modesty renamed half of the geographic objects of the vast country in his honor.
          1. Kushka
            Kushka 18 March 2021 17: 53
            0
            Well, this is already another optimizer,
            who decided to optimize the entire USSR.
            Indian soap (oh and stinked) and gave out the smoke
            at the factory according to the list. I already had two boys.
  43. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 18 March 2021 15: 23
    0
    Rostec made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center and rename Rostec to Rosetikh ...
  44. Radikal
    Radikal 18 March 2021 15: 29
    +4
    As explained, within the framework of the reform, design schools and KB brands will remain the same, only the organizational structure of legal entities will change. It is planned that design bureaus will remain independent, but will receive new opportunities for development and new conditions within the Center.
    There is another answer -
    https://vpk-news.ru/articles/61181
  45. Irokez
    Irokez 18 March 2021 15: 50
    +1
    Quote: Silvestr
    All helicopters (Mi and Ka) combined, what are the advantages?

    Well, at least that they will not go bankrupt or they will not go bankrupt. And what is more control or accountability. Or the fact that if there is no job (temporarily), then no one will fire anyone and the corporation will allocate money to stay afloat, and then orders from others can be placed and greater flexibility in production within the corporation, common allies and representatives in search of buyers, and so on Further. Look at global corporations - flourish and flourish for a versatile and united power.
  46. Tavrik
    Tavrik 18 March 2021 16: 21
    -1
    Quote: Clone
    I had to beg the already dismissed young officers to return to the Army, there was no one to command, fly and drive equipment ...

    Duc, it seems like after there was an oversupply of graduates. As a result, excellent students went to officer positions, and C grade students went to sergeant positions. It was an excellent incentive for a good study ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 March 2021 12: 13
      0
      Quote: Tavrik
      Duc, it seems like after there was an oversupply of graduates. As a result, excellent students went to officer positions, and C grade students went to sergeant positions. It was an excellent incentive for a good study ...

      The situation there was even steeper: there was an overabundance of officers in the army and at the same time there was a shortage.
      The Armed Forces had 300 officers, plus up to 000 lieutenants graduated annually. And with all this, the commander of one of the court divisions in the pre-Serdyuk times was crying that in his battalions 10% of the officer posts were occupied by "jackets" and sergeant wreeds.
  47. Breard
    Breard 18 March 2021 16: 43
    +1
    Aviation impotence is progressing!
    hmm ... Russia for 30 years was able, not completely, only before flight tests to assemble the ONLY new Tu 160!
    At the "ancient level" of technology in the USSR, they were made 10-13 per year!
  48. Andre___86
    Andre___86 18 March 2021 18: 24
    +1
    It's a pity that KB's healthy spirit of competition is being killed. I hope that they will guess at least to divide the bureau and 2-3 bureaus worked on it when designing the aircraft. Who is better - to that encouragement.
  49. Clone
    Clone 18 March 2021 18: 35
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    For ICBMs went to the Strategic Missile Forces. The plane could have saved the conversion into an ALCM carrier

    So Nikitka covered cruise missiles with a strong-willed decision in 1960. He was a great specialist in all fields, especially corn and art.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 March 2021 12: 51
      0
      Quote: Clone
      So Nikitka covered cruise missiles with a strong-willed decision in 1960.

      Hmmm ... seems to be just the opposite: Nikita covered up all the developments on aircraft carrying "cast iron". But the carriers of the URO, including the ALCM, received the green light with it. The same Tu-95 survived due to its transformation into the X-20 aircraft-ALCM system.
      In the navy, the same situation was: the artillery ship program was covered, but the carriers of missiles, anti-ship missiles and the Kyrgyz Republic did not suffer. The same project 61 is just the times of the National Union of Artists.
  50. Clone
    Clone 18 March 2021 18: 54
    0
    Quote: Radikal
    There is another answer -
    https://vpk-news.ru/articles/61181

    In the "top ten" hit.