Military Review

"Orders were criticized by subordinates": a German officer discusses the reasons for Germany's defeat in the war

22

An inexhaustible topic for discussion, analysis and other attempts to understand the details is connected with the fact why, after all, the German army lost to the Soviet one during the Great Patriotic War? Moreover, she lost in a very short time, rolling back - in the western direction - after the defeat in the Battle of Stalingrad. Hundreds of works have been written on this topic, including materials based on documents and memoirs of military leaders and ordinary soldiers.


One of the cornerstones of this theme is the mental opposition of Soviet and German soldiers, Soviet and German peoples during the war. For a Soviet person, the war was in the literal sense of the word vitally important, because everyone perfectly understood how everything would end for the country and the population after the Nazis captured the USSR. In Germany, only by means of propaganda, they somehow tried to explain why in general the German divisions moved to the east, invaded Russian soil.

The opinion of the opposite side was published on the Diodand channel. The data of the interrogation of the commander of the 114th regiment of the 6th division of the Wehrmacht Paul Stall are given. If you believe the data presented, the German officer sees the reason for the defeat of his army on the eastern front in the fact that discipline was allegedly not all right.

From materials:

Each order was criticized by subordinates, and then carried out in the way that was beneficial to the given subordinate.

An interesting interpretation. How was it profitable for the "given subordinate", for example, to carry out the order to take a specific settlement, how was it profitable for the "given subordinate" to fire artillery shelling of the Soviet positions?

Reasoning of the German officer:

Orders were often given ill-considered and badly. Thousands of orders were issued with inner meaninglessness and impracticability.

All this narration is more like an attempt to make excuses for defeat and to absolve oneself of responsibility for criminal acts.

22 comments
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  1. Alien From
    Alien From 17 March 2021 10: 42
    +9
    The fortitude, courage and heroism of the Soviet people broke the necks of the fascists!
    1. Machito
      Machito 18 March 2021 12: 20
      0
      The USSR was systematically preparing for WWII, developing the defense industry. Germany attacked the USSR without preparation, without intelligence about the state of our army and industry. If Hitler knew how many tanks we have in the army and how much industry produces, perhaps he would not have dared to attack us, but would have begun to seek a military alliance with us against the Anglo-Saxons.
      The heroism of our soldiers, multiplied by the numerous products of the defense industry enterprises, broke the back of Euro-fascism. Eurofascists were smashed and nailed to the pillory of history by the Nuremberg Tribunal.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 18 March 2021 12: 37
        +4
        If Hitler knew how many tanks we have in the army and how much industry produces, perhaps he would not have dared to attack us, but would have begun to seek a military alliance with us against the Anglo-Saxons.

        Confirmation of your words is in Guderian's memoirs, where Hitler's conversation with the general is described.
        And understated information was given to Hitler by Canaris, an English agent. Canaris paid for this by hanging from a piano string on April 9, 1945 for working for the British.
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 18 March 2021 12: 25
      -2
      Quote: Alien From
      Fortitude, courage and heroism of the Soviet people broke the necks of the fascists

      those. You are almost 1.2 million soldiers and those who helped in the rear, who could not stop the Wehrmacht in the summer of 41, are you denied the availability of the above? And then it suddenly took over and appeared?
      Or maybe it's enough to post the slogans of propanganda and it's worth talking about reality?
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 18 March 2021 12: 42
        +2
        Reread my post carefully.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 18 March 2021 12: 45
          -1
          now it's your turn to do the same
  2. Blacksmith 55
    Blacksmith 55 17 March 2021 10: 44
    +5
    For a good dancer ... ... there is always something in the way.
    Therefore, he is looking for a reason, then the orders were not executed, then the "general frost" intervened.
    There are hundreds more to find.
    I have not watched the video, well, not a fan of watching, it's better to read it.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 March 2021 23: 14
      +4
      Quote: Blacksmith 55
      Therefore, he is looking for a reason, then the orders were not executed, then the "general frost" intervened.

      He's not looking for anything. Stahl spent 4 years in the headquarters, so he knows from the inside all this bureaucracy, and clear pepper that he is jealous - we are here, they say, giving birth to cypcularies, and some Oberst or Hauptmann puts down the device and acts in his own way. And compares in this vein the western and eastern campaigns. But when he was thrown out of the headquarters 'in the field' to command first a company of panceregeres, and then a grenadier regiment - here he felt the situation from the inside out on his own skin and with his liver, when he left the cauldron in 1944.
  3. knn54
    knn54 17 March 2021 11: 03
    +2
    Germany lost the war when it attacked the USSR ..
    I was always "touched" (more often in sports) when they said: "It was not they who won, it was we who lost."
  4. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 17 March 2021 21: 02
    +7
    "Each order was criticized by subordinates, and then carried out in such a way,
    how it was beneficial to this subordinate "

    This was the reason for the phenomenal success of the blitzkriegs and the rapid progress.
    ground forces:
    company and battalion commanders were given complete freedom of action.
    They attacked, infiltrated defenses, made traps creatively,
    without waiting for approval from the headquarters.
    As a result, not a minute was wasted.

    In the First World War, strict dependence on the headquarters and inhibiting
    the vertical hierarchy was the weakest point of the German army.
    1. iouris
      iouris 17 March 2021 21: 38
      +1
      I'm starting to think that there were many Jewish fighters in the Wehrmacht.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 17 March 2021 21: 42
        +1
        Israeli infantry trained in flexible modern combat
        English volunteer instructors.
        And it is precisely the high level of training of commanders at the company / battalion level
        allowed the IDF to withstand battles against much outnumbered
        Arab armies. When the units were completely cut off from the headquarters.

        And the British were impressed, of course, by the Wehrmacht's innovative tactics.
        Although such risky techniques as the Wehrmacht's ground forces did, no one
        since then does not dare to repeat.
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 17 March 2021 21: 59
          +3
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Although such risky techniques as the Wehrmacht's ground forces did, no one
          since then does not dare to repeat.

          Strange! For some reason, the Soviet flag over the Reichstag hints at something else. wink wink
          Although, the father respected the Germans as warriors.
          1. adler87
            adler87 17 March 2021 22: 12
            +2
            Still, not to respect: the field Europeans put cancer, they fought in Africa, they fought with England, and all this at the same time, well, in Russia they reached Moscow and the Volga. And so yes, what warriors they are.
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 17 March 2021 22: 56
              +3
              Quote: adler87
              And so yes, what warriors they are.

              Warriors, not warriors. Father had someone to compare with. I had a chance to fight. With Romanians, with Italians, with Hungarians. The higher is the feat of the Soviet people!
        2. ammunition
          ammunition 20 March 2021 04: 39
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And it is precisely the high level of training of commanders at the company / battalion level
          allowed the IDF to withstand battles against much outnumbered
          Arab armies.

          Mikhail Iosifovich Weller said: "If there were Germans, or at least Spaniards, in the place of the Arabs, the State of Israel would not exist."
          -------------
          Who knows ? .. Maybe Weller is right ..
  5. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 March 2021 22: 46
    +3
    All this narration is more like an attempt to make excuses for defeat and to absolve oneself of responsibility for criminal acts.

    Nonsense.
    Paul Stahl is a Doctor of Jurisprudence with diplomas from three (!) Universities - Munich, Geneva and Könichsberg. By September 1, 1939, he was only a reserve lieutenant, from the beginning of the war - a platoon commander in a cavalry regiment, and from the western campaign until the beginning of 1943 - a staff officer. Received the rank of captain and was pushed out of the headquarters to command a company of Panceregerei. In principle, from that moment a real war began for him. As a major, he began to command the 114th Panzergrenadier in January 1944, and received the Knight's Cross for Kamenets-Podolsk. Colonel received on April 30, 1945. Apparently, in honor of the death of the Fuhrer) Although he surrendered to the Americans, he was handed over to ours, he returned from the camp in 1955.
    So, he has no reason to justify himself and relieve responsibility - he saw the war both from behind the headquarters table and at a shot distance. He is not from the cadre caste, in chorus I get along all over for the lost war, blaming the dead corporal and "insane orders".
    1. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 17 March 2021 23: 50
      +3
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      ... he saw the war ....

      I keep a notebook for 2 kopecks. 12 pages.
      The father wrote in it something like a will to us sons. He wrote about himself, about his parents, about brothers, about sisters, about his life, about his understanding of life. There is little about the war.
      He also saw the war. From the first to the last day, except for hospitals.
      "June 22, 1941 is the darkest day in history and life. At 4 am deadly artillery fire fell on the summer camp beyond the Bug, followed by aircraft, tanks, infantry; hundreds of killed and wounded; confusion in the situation."
      Words from his notebook. My father, a sergeant of the Red Army, who left the encirclement only near Smolensk, and brought out the same with mostly captured weapons, some in uniform, some in civilian clothes, some in German uniform.
      No one will ever repeat the feat of the Soviet people. And, these are our fathers and grandfathers.
      PS
      A law on insulting veterans was passed today. And, it is necessary to adopt a law on education.
      https://yandex.ru/news/story/Bastrykin_vzyal_nakontrol_delo_osozhzhenii_pamyatnika_vTatarstane--f2412e1b9acbac9408be29249272abbd?from=newswizard&lang=ru&persistent_id=135661034&rubric=incident&stid=WMHVFGxtkLvd59FXSWuZ&tt=true&wan=1&wizard=story
      Do you think there will be some officials who, on May 9, in the forefront "honor the memory" of veterans?
  6. chicalo
    chicalo 18 March 2021 06: 52
    +1
    This is the Great Patriotic War
  7. Konnick
    Konnick 18 March 2021 12: 57
    +4
    First of all, Germany lost our strategy. We managed to preserve the army in the first months of the war, despite defeats and cauldrons. We were able to evacuate factories and rebuild the economy. And since 43, the Germans did what they did, they plugged the holes. Tactically, they outplayed us in places, but strategically they missed almost all of our main attacks, starting with the Battle of Stalingrad. Even the Battle of Rzhev was not in vain, but kept a third of the entire Wehrmacht in positional battles for a whole year and made it possible to gain time for the defense industry, and this is a strategy.
  8. boris epstein
    boris epstein 19 March 2021 18: 49
    +1
    I came across the Germans when they mastered the GDR's electronic telegraph devices. 0745-at the workplace. 0800-starts work. 1145-collects the tool. 1200-leaves for a break 1145-returns from a break. Work in a workshop for the repair of apparatus-only in CLEAN white coats. The traveling mechanics in their notebooks write down the time to the nearest minute. The same was demanded of us. The first fall in discipline was after the defeat near Moscow, but the Germans quickly overcame it by introducing penal battalions. After the fall of discipline occurred as the Red Army knocked out non-commissioned officers and soldiers who marched victoriously to Europe. I do not agree with the Germans about their generals. Most of them went through the First World War. After her, the German army was reduced and only the most capable and experienced officers remained in it. Therefore, I agree with the comment of the participant Kuznets 55: “For a good dancer .... something always gets in the way.
    "Therefore, he is looking for a reason, then orders were not executed, then" General Frost "intervened." After the defeat in Moscow, the Germans introduced penal battalions, which further strengthened discipline, although there were exceptions. The commander of the submarine that sank the Atenia liner tore the sheets from the logbook. A massive decline in discipline began after the soldiers and non-commissioned officers who marched victoriously across Europe were driven out.
    The main thing is that they still do not understand how, in their opinion, the "subhumans" (that is, we) defeated the "superhumans" and that they are not superhumans. Until the end of the war, they fought strictly according to the template: strike at the joints of enemy units and formations. In this sense, as they gained experience, Soviet generals and officers surpassed them in ingenuity.
  9. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 20 March 2021 22: 56
    0
    Yes, their cartridges are of the wrong caliber.