Lies in transit. On the 65th anniversary of Khrushchev's "unclassified" report

Warsaw, Belgrade, then - everywhere

65 years ago, in March 1956, Khrushchev's report "On Stalin's personality cult", announced at the last meeting of the XX Congress of the CPSU (February 25, 1956), was sent to the party organizations of the USSR and 70 foreign communist parties. Of course, with a chipboard stamp. And it’s even strange that it’s not “Top Secret”.

However, in Poland and Yugoslavia, and through them "in transit" to the West, the document arrived in advance. The local politicians had to be informed of Moscow's abandonment of Stalinist policies. Many excerpts from the report were published in the West immediately after Khrushchev's speech, so that there would be no more doubts about the course for de-Stalinization.

It is clear that it was a deliberate "leak"... Through Poland - in order to discredit the head of its Communist Party - the Stalinist Bierut and his inner circle. And through Yugoslavia - for a greater "partnership" between Moscow and Tito. Strange as it may seem, but basically these goals have been achieved.

However, on the eve of February 1956, nothing officially foreshadowed the rapid rise of anti-Stalinism in the USSR. Of course, there were some cultural advances. And very strong (The legacy of the leader of the peoples. The masters of culture, who are they with?).

As noted in the theses of the CPSU Central Committee dedicated to the 38th anniversary of the October Revolution and, accordingly, in the "ideological editorials" of the Soviet press from October 1955 to January 1956 (that is, on the eve of the XX Congress of the CPSU) - the party and the country are preparing

"It is worthy to meet the XX Party Congress, following the path indicated by Lenin and Stalin."

Obviously, such calls were a smokescreen designed to calm the opponents of Khrushchev's "de-Stalinization", both in the USSR and among other socialist countries and communist parties. In order to discourage not only Soviet communists with the same report.

Within the framework of that veil - and the "Agitator's Notebook" of the Main Political Directorate of the USSR Ministry of Defense, signed for publication in December 1955 and published in January 1956 - a month before the XX Congress. Of the 47 pages of this brochure, the first 12 are dedicated to the 76th anniversary of the birth of Stalin (21.12.1955/XNUMX/XNUMX) -

"A faithful disciple, militant ally and successor of Lenin's immortal cause."

There is also an elegant clarification in the notebook -

"Being a great example of serving the people, Stalin unswervingly followed the Leninist path to the end of his life."

It also says that

"Our country is meeting the XNUMXth Congress of the CPSU with dignity, following the path indicated by Lenin and Stalin."

Disposal of the chief

It is not difficult to imagine what effect the famous Khrushchev report had in combination with pamphlets of this kind. And also taking into account Khrushchev's mournful and glorifying speech at the funeral, according to him,

"A great teacher, leader and friend of the working people of the whole world" ...

Meanwhile, the text of the report, according to a number of Polish and American sources, no later than mid-February 1956 was forwarded to the secretary of the Central Committee of the Polish United Workers' Party (PUWP) Edward Ochab. Ochab was at that time the first deputy of the Polish party leader Boleslav Bierut.

Recall that Boleslav Bierut died suddenly in Moscow on March 12, 1956, a few days after the scandal with Khrushchev in connection with his anti-Stalinist report. In which, according to B. Berut,

“Responsibility for mistakes and reprisals rigged assigned only to Stalin "

(Special invitation to Stalin's funeral).

By the way, already on March 15, 1956, Ochab became the first secretary of the PUWP Central Committee, but he was "kept" in this post for no more than six months. He was appointed to the decorative post of chairman of the State Council of Poland eight years later.

Boleslav Bierut was still in Moscow, alive, when the text of Khrushchev's report had already been forwarded from E. Ochab's office to the embassies of Israel and Yugoslavia in Warsaw. Thus, Belgrade received convincing "proof" of Khrushchev's determination to overthrow Stalin.

The goal was absolutely transparent - to (among other things) establish closer relations with the initially "pro-Western" Tito Yugoslavia. The policy of which, as you know, was sharply condemned in the Stalinist USSR in 1948-1952.

Then, from Belgrade and Tel Aviv, the text of the report was sent by Israelis and Yugoslavs to the United States, where its main stories were published on June 5, 1956 by The New York Times and The Washington Post and Times Herald. Soon the British Reuters published more than half of the text of the report.

The first publications in the socialist countries of Eastern Europe were made in the spring and summer of 1956 in Poland, Yugoslavia and Hungary. At the same time, the report was not published in Albania, Romania, PRC, DPRK, North Vietnam and Mongolia.

Where to go?

At the same time, in the USSR, Khrushchev's report was stubbornly kept secret, like many other documents of the era, until 1989. Although in the same year 1956, when the XX Congress of the CPSU was held, in the USSR the decree of the Central Committee "On the cult of the individual and its consequences" was nevertheless published.

Actually, it was actually the publication of Khrushchev's report - in the presentation and with serious cuts, which, however, did not change the essence. But this was done only on June 30. That is, the "leak" of the report to the West was, we repeat, purposeful.

For example, Matthias Rakosi, head of the Hungarian Communist Party in 1945-1956, has stated this directly and more than once; and Enver Hoxha, head of Stalinist Albania from 1947-1985; and Colonel General Xie Fuzhi, Minister of State Security of the PRC 1959-1972; and Minister Nikos Zachariadis, head of the Greek Communist Party in 1936-1957; and Kazimierz Miyal, associate of B. Bierut, founder and leader of the opposition USSR and PUWP, the Stalinist Communist Party of Poland in 1966-1996. (GKChP is just a conspiracy or?).

It is characteristic that the premeditated anti-Stalinist hysteria of Khrushchev was exposed not only in the Communist Parties of the PRC, Albania, the DPRK and a number of capitalist and developing countries. So, Grover Ferr, professor at Montclair State University, from the state of New Jersey, in the monograph-research "Anti-Stalin meanness" noted:

“Of all the statements of the“ closed report ”that directly“ expose ”Stalin, not a single one turned out to be true.

More precisely, among all those of them that are verifiable, every single one turned out to be deceitful.

The entire "closed report" is woven entirely of fraud of this sort. "

The goal of the Khrushchevites, including the transfer of the report to the West,

“Was that the West had an idea: what is the main thing and how exactly it was discussed at the XX Congress.

The signal was given: the Stalinist past and the Stalinist ideology are officially over. "

(Grover Furr, "Khrushchev Lied", California, Santa-Monica Blvd Beverly Hills, Erythros Press & Media, 2011).

Comments

[Ross xnumx]

It is characteristic that the premeditated anti-Stalinist hysteria of Khrushchev was exposed not only in the Communist Parties of the PRC, Albania, North Korea and a number of capitalist and developing countries.

What should be added to this:

From the article "On the question of Stalin" dated 13.09.1963/XNUMX/XNUMX, edited by Mao Zedong: "On such a principled issue as the question of Stalin, Comrade Khrushchev did not first consult with the fraternal parties, and after the XX Congress, he presented them with a fait accompli, began to impose on them the decision of the Congress. It was after the XX Congress of the CPSU that the imperialists, taking advantage of Khrushchev's secret anti-Stalinist report, launched a broad anti-Soviet, anti-communist campaign around the world and launched an offensive against the Soviet Union, against the socialist camp, against the CPSU, as a result of which many fraternal parties and fraternal countries found themselves in an extremely difficult situation. ... "

Well, and perhaps the most famous thesis:

Mao Zedong, New China, Beijing. 1964, No. 12: "To power in the USSR after 1953 came nationalists and careerists, bribe-takers covered from the Kremlin. When the time comes, they will throw off their masks, throw away their membership cards and openly rule their counties like feudal lords and serf-owners.»

What is true and what is false can be admitted after time has shown.
PS I liked about the feudal lords ...

[Sling cutter]

Quote: ROSS 42

What is true and what is false can be admitted after time has shown.
PS I liked about the feudal lords ..

Dear Colleague, The quotes you have given are simply wonderful !!! Mao was absolutely right, it was after this damned report of Khrushchev that our relations with China completely deteriorated, then Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland and off they went ...

[Far B]

Not long before his death, talking about Khrushchev, Churchill uttered a very curious phrase: "Khrushchev is the only politician in the history of mankind who declared war on the dead. But more than that, he managed to lose it."

Another great quote. Yes, Khrushchev is a politician (oxymoron, damn it) - in the end he lost outright. Only, unfortunately, because of this Khrushchev's "war," the entire world communist movement also lost, and strongly.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Dalny V

Another great quote

Yes, indeed, such an assessment of the sworn enemy is worth a lot for understanding the vile Khrushchev essence.

[Jolly Roger]

I remember those times very well, Khrushchev completely lost his mind with his corn.

[gsev]

Quote: Jolly Roger

I remember those times very well, Khrushchev completely lost his mind with his corn.

In the USSR, Khrushchev became the first ruler under whom Russians stopped dying of hunger. Under him, the USSR was more successful than the United States in making heavy press, aircraft and space technology, making up for the lag in computer technology. Members of the NATO bloc, hostile to the USSR, England and France ceased to be colonial empires, the prerequisites were laid for the coming to power of politicians loyal to the USSR in Africa.

[lelik613]

Yes Yes. Apparently to my mother, standing in line at night for bread imagined.

[gsev]

Quote: lelik613

Yes Yes. Apparently to my mother, standing in line at night for bread imagined.

Standing in line for bread under Khrushchev is much better than picking quinoa under Stalin and Nicholas 2 ..

[lelik613]

Yes, it was Nikitushkin's flaw. It was necessary for him to accustom the people to the swan.

[gsev]

Quote: lelik613

Yes, it was Nikitushkin's flaw. It was necessary for him to accustom the people to the swan.

In general, it was Khrushchev who weaned Soviet citizens from swelling and starving to death and created conditions for abandoning quinoa in favor of buckwheat, wheat, corn and peas. food of the year in 1975 and her lamentations that the young people of that time were rapidly and frivolously losing such vital knowledge.

[lelik613]

In Novocherkassk I fed ... too. 10 years of his tent, this is a series of large jumps in width and attempts to bury and fly away. Fabulous ... eccentric. He ravaged the Non-Black Earth Region, turned virgin soil into a semi-desert, refused to pay loans to the people, ruined industry, forced people to cut apple trees, deprived the RSFSR of cattle and by the year 63 brought it to a lack of bread. Well, on the little things: Crimea, Bandera, a quarrel with China, corn to the Pole.

[parusnik]

the entire world communist movement has also lost, and it has lost a lot.

I would say more harshly, the defeat of the communist movement began. The result is obvious.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: parusnik

..... the defeat of the communist movement began. The result is obvious.

Well yes! The old principle is to create contradictions and divisions as a result.
Continuation of the topic about Khrushchev. Thanks to the author for the information about the unknown treacherous deeds of the corn plant.
It is not clear that now there are authors who suggest that in fact Khrushchev --- did not want all this. As if. And the preparatory work, it turns out, was prepared and carried out effectively
And the tagged one, like, didn’t want to, and the corn one didn’t want to, everyone reluctantly destroyed the country ....

[Andrey Korotkov]

In 1989, before being drafted to the SA at the faculty, I was asked a question - your opinion about the 20th Congress, the report of Comrade Khrushchev, my opinion - Treason

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Andrey Korotkov

In 1989, before being drafted to the SA at the faculty, I was asked a question - your opinion about the 20th Congress, the report of Comrade Khrushchev, my opinion - Treason

That is, you were so advanced in politics at the age of 20-22? I didn't care about politics and political economy

[gsev]

Quote: parusnik

I would say more harshly, the defeat of the communist movement began. The result is obvious.

The communists under Khrushchev advanced. The United States was unable to defeat the DPRK, suffered defeats in Vietnam and Cuba.

[bk0010]

Quote: Dalny V

Khrushchev is the only politician in the history of mankind who has declared war on the dead. But not only that - he managed to lose it

Well, in fact, not the only one: in the 9th century, the Pope was dug up and tried. With the same result, by the way (as a result of the trial, the dad was strangled).

[Free wind]

Mao was never a friend of the USSR. and the report has nothing to do with it. Mao has always done what is personally beneficial to him. And he got angry with Khrushchev, because of his refusal to transfer the technology for making the atomic bomb, the report has nothing to do with it. Well, and the report, how interestingly it was transmitted to Poland or Yugoslavia, let's say by deep mail. But how many copies would then be transferred? ... If the leadership of Poland was about Stalin's, and suddenly the report falls to the west. That is, an ardent Stalinist, transmits an anti-Stalinist report to the west, I would simply burn such a report, that the author attracts a lot by the ears.

[Reptiloid]

...the author for the ears .....

I disagree about this. After all, if you remember that somehow quickly in the Eastern European countries they began to dump monuments, then this is surprising. It just turns out that they knew there in advance and also carried out preparatory work. And it seemed that everything was spontaneous.

[gsev]

Quote: Reptiloid

somehow quickly in Eastern European countries they began to throw down monuments,

Many of whose relatives suffered during the Stalinist era would gladly demolish monuments to Stalin, and not only in Europe, but also in the USSR. Only in closed cities sometimes streets with the sonorous name "Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria" survived until perestroika. And this is the meaning of Stalinism. He made stable not communist ideas, but respect for the ability to punish people with impunity and enjoy the privileges of special services.

[Andrey Korotkov]

There was a report, whether he changed it to the development of the USSR unconditionally!

[gsev]

Quote: Free Wind

If the Polish leadership was about Stalin's, and suddenly the report gets to the west. That is, an ardent Stalinist, transmits an anti-Stalinist report to the west, I would simply burn such a report, that the author attracts a lot by the ears.

Talking about the reason for the debunking of the cult of personality, one must bear in mind the interesting operation of the CIA and Dulles personally "The Split". Dulles, with unsuitable means, managed to force Stalin and the state security of the socialist countries, including the USSR, to act for many years as their active agents of influence. Unsuitable funds are several agents from among the influential communists who became disillusioned with communism, the methods of building socialism against the backdrop of an army of thousands of members of the Resistance in Europe, who considered the USSR as their savior and Stalin as their leader. Even Dulles' chief human resources assistant in recruiting Field American intelligence agents, agents of influence, saboteurs, and future members of pro-American governments in Europe was a Soviet intelligence agent. Accordingly, by the time of the liberation from the Nazis, representatives loyal to the USSR, Stalin and the Soviet special services were at all the key posts where the CIA tried to introduce its agents. Even the newspaper created by Dulles with American money and printed on state equipment to propagate the American line in Germany in its first issue announced that it was the organ of the German Communists for the amusement of all the secret services of the world. But Dulles, through his Polish agent, gave Stalin the idea that these successes of his intelligence were imaginary. That the CIA is striving to plant local nationalists in the people's democracies as opposed to the true Stalinists who do not have free thinking and who rely solely on Stalin's genius. As a result, all politicians defending the national interests of their countries during negotiations with Soviet representatives began to be suspected of belonging to the CIA agents and repressed. As a result of the massive repressions caused in the countries of Eastern Europe, the authority of the USSR began to decline and the intelligentsia began to realize the need for active unification and search for ways of another way of developing their countries. To the credit of Khrushchev and his associates, the USSR was able to stop the overthrow of the communist power, which the CIA timed to coincide with the first years after Stalin's death, with minimal losses. It was the repressed communists, adherents of the nationalist wing in their parties, who were able to stop the restoration of capitalism in Poland and Hungary in the 1950s-1960s. If we consider these events taking into account the factor of the presence of the CIA operation "The Splitting Factor", then the author of this article, as well as other critics of Khrushchev's policy, can be safely considered agents of influence of the late crusader Dulles.

[Pravodel]

After 1953, nationalists and careerists, bribe-takers, covered by the Kremlin, came to power in the USSR. When the time comes, they will throw off their masks, throw away party cards and openly rule their counties like feudal lords and serf-owners.

Mao's brilliant foresight. It is only necessary to add that Khrushchev's report at the XX Congress began the collapse of the USSR and the Warsaw bloc, which ended with the collapse and 90 years of timelessness and humiliation of Russia.

[depressant]

I remember a period of our history, not so far, by the way, when, reproaching people for surrendering the USSR, many mocked the psychology of the "surrendered", including the words "If only there was no war!"
The scoffers did not understand what war was. Those who said, "If only there was no ...", it passed.
There can be no war in two cases: either to build a powerful state, which no one will dare to attack; or surrender to the mercy of the winner.
Khrushchev, without realizing it himself, or vice versa - understanding very well what he was up to, laid the second path. And since such a path is easier, requiring neither intelligence nor efforts from the country's leadership, but only a cunning estimate "What will I have from this", then it is implemented in the end. And it turns out that Khrushchev, out of revenge on Stalin, opened a Pandora's box, in which every decision is bad.

[kepmor]

about "pandora's box", Lyudmila Yakovlevna, you absolutely rightly noticed ...
only to see in him everything and everything has accumulated so much that no one really bothered to refute Khrushchev ... as always, there was servile approval of the now new party line ...
after all, there was no mass disagreement among the "communists" ... and as a sign of protest, no one put a party card on the table ... all obediently applauded and "looked into the mouth" of the newly-made leader ...
and a period of pharisaism began ... Brezhnev pushed Khrushchev ... then Andropov pulled the tagged "king of sheep" out of Kashara ... and all this farce, according to the laws of dialectics, ended in tragedy in 91 ...
servility with genuflection to the "leaders", combined with sheer infantilism, almost 19 million communists "leading and directing" and 300 million citizens as a result, led to what we have today ...
the primordial Russian tradition to blame tsars, leaders, Zionists and capitalists for all their troubles ...

[depressant]

Dear colleague kepmor, my comment about Khrushchev's report went far down. After all, I managed to listen to it in its entirety on Georgian radio. I don’t think that any of those present, except me, had such an opportunity. There I outlined my version of how Khrushchev managed to get into the brains of all the congress delegates and tune them in the way he wanted.
Here, in the comments, colleagues insist on political differences - they say, the Bolsheviks and Trotskyists. The Bolsheviks were unable to resist, and everyone just throws up their hands: they say, why is this?
And because psychology is discarded as a factor influencing the minds of people. At the convention, Khrushchev proved himself to be a powerful mirroring specialist.
Remember: some fans at matches involuntarily repeat the movements of the footballer who is being watched. A huge crowd of people mirrors the vivid action of a small and most noisy part of it - this distinguishes the psychology of the crowd from the psychology of an individual person.
The congress, like any large gathering, either a rally or a demonstration, has become the very crowd that can be manipulated.
Khrushchev at the congress managed to create such a powerful action, which was fixed in the mirror neurons of the brain of each of those present, acquiring the significance of a priority in the worldview. Following the communist idea is difficult. It is easy to follow Khrushchev's proposal! And now, if they didn’t shout “Crucify him!”, Then they nodded their heads with understanding, in agreement, because nodding in a nodding crowd is easy according to the principle “I am like everyone else” and “I need it more than anyone else?”. Especially when you are no longer required to further exert forces in defending the right idea. No one will call you to account, will not cast a menacing look on you - such relief was dearly worth it! It is difficult to stand before the conscience; it is easy to copy the unworthy if it acquires the meaning of the generally accepted.

[Andrey Korotkov]

I agree with you Depressant - mirroring history. Understanding comes much later

[Richard]

Colleagues, remember the famous gesture of the Roman emperors in the Colosseum - thumbs up life, thumbs down - death.
The photo cited by the respected author in the title of his article is somehow mystically significant - one gave life to a great state, the other ..... opened Pandora's box

[Andrey Korotkov]

It's just mysticism, though ...

[Andrey Korotkov]

Depressant - the answer - Comrade Stalin is certainly possible Khrushchev's father is a son. but I agree with you, I myself was brought up with a teenager, it wouldn’t have been

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: depressant

Khrushchev, out of revenge on Stalin, opened a Pandora's box, in which every decision is bad.

My father never, until his death in 1985, forgave Khrushchev that he defamed J.V. Stalin and the Stalinist period in the development of the USSR. After the XX Congress of the CPSU, he spat in indignation and said: "What a bastard, s ... n son and a shitty, this scoundrel Nikita!" And until his death he called Khrushchev no other than "Nikita".

Under Khrushchev, of course, a lot of good things were done: the economy initially developed steadily, the well-being of people increased, the country's democratization began, politics became more open to all the world, virgin lands were mastered, there was a resettlement of people from the barracks to the "Khrushchev" (then they thought that in temporary housing), space exploration began - the first satellite, the first cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, the first six cosmonauts: Gagarin, Titov, Nikolaev, Popovich , Bykovsky, Tereshkova.

Could all this have been achieved without criticizing J.V. Stalin and his period of leadership of the country? Of course! But Khrushchev took a different path, accusing Stalin of what he himself took an active part in. And much of the good that was done with him and with his participation is crossed out by the fact that he vilely, slavishly, like a jackal, "kicked and cursed the dead lion" and decided to assert himself by defaming his predecessor. For what neither people nor history have forgiven him.

Here some accuse the rank and file communists. But then the party discipline was strong and people sincerely believed the leaders without limit. The era of disbelief began later.

[andrew42]

Some kind of far-fetched nonsense. It sounds something like "He shot himself because he wanted to live." Mr. Dulles was certainly a guy not a mistake, but you shouldn't attribute such a "ingeniously tortured" plan to him. Nowadays REN-TV deals with such things in the section "alternative history". There is one simple reason why a geopolitical adversary would never really implement such a plan, and this reason is called RISK. Uncalculated and colossal risks! The maximum that such an announced "Split" is good for is misleading with the aim of confusing the real intentions of the "West" in assessments. What was the first thing we had there? - Hungary! And armed groups of militants trained abroad who shot communists. The conspiratorial cells of "capitalist resistance" are of course a fertile field, Hungary until 1945 was a typical western feudal-capitalist state, there was no catharsis of civil war there. But the fact of armed penetration of militants from outside the "perimeter" is the main catalyst. With such methods, no "split" of the nafik is needed.

[sniperino]

Quote: ROSS 42

I liked about the feudal lords

Now they want to blame everything on Khrushchev, and dear Leonid Ilyich and other party members of the type were not in the know. Judging by the number of CPSU members who did not see what was happening, the party could only claim to secede in the Society of the Blind, but not to the role of the leading and guiding force of the Soviet people.

[kalibr]

Quote: sniperino

the party could only claim to secede in the Society of the Blind, but not to the role of the leading and guiding force of the Soviet people.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++

[apro]

The first victory of the Russians over the communists. The beginning of the end of the communist project. An attempt to discredit the activities of the IVS of Stalin. At that time was crowned with success ... and led to the loss of the leading role of the communists on the territory of russia. This ideological blow the bulk of the communists could not repel.

[Lech from Android.]

Is this Khrushchev Russian?
Stalin warmed the viper on his chest. Khrushchev inside was afraid of Stalin while he was alive and in every possible way toaddled him.
And as the leader of the nations died and showed his real nasty gut.
A typical opportunist. Khrushchev put a good prank on the Russians ... by his sole decision he pushed the transfer of Crimea to the Ukrainian Republic, which came back to haunt after decades.

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Is this Khrushchev Russian?

Russian Lyokha ... Russian. He reflected the interests of Russians. He acted like a Russian.

[Lech from Android.]

You are, as always, in your role.

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

You are, as always, in your role.

This is the position.

[Lech from Android.]

I respect your position, but I have my own position.
Khrushchev had more than enough firewood in his reign.
He is the same character as Yeltsin. The only thing I liked about him was how he beat Kuzka's mother with his shoe on the UN rostrum.
He was good at making an impression on the Anglo-Saxons ... which is what I wish for our Foreign Ministry.

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

and I have my own position.

I respect your position, but I will defend mine.

[kalibr]

Quote: Lech from Android.

how he beat Kuzka's mother with a shoe on the UN rostrum.

This was not the case. Shoes!

[tatra]

Your main "de-Stalinizers" = Russians, Khrushchev, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, are hated by the majority of the Russian people. And no matter how you slander Stalin, his popularity among the Russian people is only growing. And anti-Sovietism is ALWAYS equal to Russophobia. All the enemies of the communists in the West, in Europe, on the territory of the USSR are russophobes.

[apro]

Quote: tatra

Your main "destalinizers" = Russians Khrushchev, Gorbachev, Yeltsin

Comrade Tatra who are you addressing ???

Quote: tatra

And anti-Sovietism is ALWAYS equal to Russophobia.

He also adhered to this before. But changed his point of view. Communism and Russian national self-consciousness are not equal.

[tatra]

You are like a "chameleon" Gorbachev, then for the "red", then for the "white". You, the Russian enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists, for 70 years under Soviet rule, not for 33 years after the capture of the USSR by the enemies of the Communists, did NOT have anything or anyone good for Russia and the Russian people, starting with the fact that you have NO for Russia and the Russian people have a good government and a good socio-economic system.

[apro]

Quote: tatra

You, the Russian enemies of the Bolshevik communists,

I am not Russian. I am Soviet. It is difficult for me to understand your logic.

[tatra]

Well then, all the more so that you are trying to discuss what we, the Russians, need. And I have normal logic. And what I wrote about the Russians applies both to the Soviet people and to the peoples in the States created by the enemies of the Communists on the territory of the USSR that they had seized. You, enemies of the communists, have NOTHING and ANYONE good for all these 103 years of the Soviet and post-Soviet periods, for your country and people did not appear.

[apro]

Quote: tatra

what we Russians need

If you are Russian, why do you need communism ???

[tatra]

That is, you are suggesting that the Russians unite with the Russophobes, the enemies of the Communists?

[apro]

Quote: tatra

That is, you are suggesting that the Russians unite with the Russophobes, the enemies of the Communists?

Russians are building the Russian world. Communists are building communism.

[tatra]

Ha, what kind of "Russian world" did the Russian enemies of the communists build?

[apro]

Quote: tatra

Ha, what kind of "Russian world" did the Russian enemies of the communists build?

I asked the zealots of the Russian world on the site ... so I didn’t wait for an answer. Even the definition of it. I myself think ... this is a bourgeois project of a small type.

[tatra]

Something you have one senseless verbiage. The enemies of the communists are not capable of even elementary discussions.

[apro]

Quote: tatra

What is your one senseless verbiage

Comrade Tatra so enlighten me how the Russian national project will lead to communism ???

[Krasnodar]

Quote: tatra

Ha, what kind of "Russian world" did the Russian enemies of the communists build?

Comrade tatra - communism = proletarian internationalism.

The classics of Marxism emphasized that interethnic problems recede into the background in comparison with the class tasks of the world proletariat.

Read the Manifesto of the Communist Party of Marx and Engels (Manifest der Kommunistischen Partei), re-read the works of Lenin.

[sniperino]

Quote: tatra

Ha, what kind of "Russian world" did the Russian enemies of the communists build?

The Russian world was built long before the advent of the communists on the political scene and continues to stand today, when the communists moved from the genre of historical tragedy to the arena of political farce.

[Han Tengri]

Quote: tatra

Well then, all the more so that you are trying to discuss what we, the Russians, need.

Irina, and you also turn out to be a typical "enemy of the communists" (c), for a communist = an internationalist, and of you, Great Russian chauvinism is just too pretentious.

[tatra]

Well, if Oleg started talking about the Russians, then this is how I answer. If he started talking about the Soviet people, then I would answer about the Soviet people. And it is very difficult after the capture of the USSR by the enemies of the communists to be an internationalist, after what the enemies of the communists of different nationalities did to the Russians.

[Krasnodar]

I will quote to you the founders of the communists:

the workers have no fatherland ”(Die Arbeiter haben kein Vaterland).

And what is the Russian people from the point of view of a communist, comrade tatra?
This is the Russian-speaking proletariat, which must unite with the proletariat of all other peoples to throw off the age-old shackles of exploitation and “wrest all capital from the bourgeoisie, step by step, centralize all the instruments of production in the hands of the state, that is, the proletariat organized as the ruling class, and increase the sum of the productive forces. "

You, comrade tatra, take the side of the enemies of the communists who are trying to consign to oblivion the main slogan of the founders of the Great Ideology:
PROLETARIANS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE!

[tatra]

Russians, in their true essence, are those who have done something useful for their country and people, or at least proved that they are for the good for their country and people. And among the Russian enemies of the communists after the October Revolution, on the territory of the USSR, there have never been such, and there are none. And none of you is able to honestly, objectively, adequately discuss WHAT and WHO is better for Russia and the Russian people.

[Han Tengri]

Quote: tatra

Russians, in their true essence, are those who have done something useful for their country and people, or at least proved that they are for the good for their country and people.

Oh! So you are a typical Russian nationalist, the sworn enemy of the communists - internationalists, as it was said!
Irina, how does it get along in you: Commitment to the communist idea, with a sense of the superiority of the Russian nationality, over the rest?
Think about it, maybe you are not a communist at all, but an ordinary National Socialist?

[tatra]

Ha, everything gets along well, I am Russian by nationality, and Soviet by mentality, and the USSR is the BEST State on the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia-USSR-your States on the territory of the USSR you captured, enemies of the Communists-both for the Russian people and for all other nationalities.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: tatra

Ha, everything gets along well, I am Russian by nationality, and Soviet by mentality, and the USSR is the BEST State on the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia-USSR-your States on the territory of the USSR you captured, enemies of the Communists-both for the Russian people and for all other nationalities.

The USSR is the best state for Of nationalitiesliving on the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia? M-dya, proletarians of all countries, unite ...
You are not a communist, but you are not a National Socialist either. Closer to the early Mussolini, probably - the priority of the State over nationality and the socially just structure of the former.

[Krasnodar]

??
From the point of view of a communist, nationality does not exist among the proletariat.
You are not a communist, tatra.

[tatra]

Stupidity. It was just under the communists that there was a record of nationality in the passports. And the enemies of the communists made all nationalities in Russia "darags scattered".

[Krasnodar]

Quote: tatra

Stupidity. It was just under the communists that there was a record of nationality in the passports. And the enemies of the communists made all nationalities in Russia "darags scattered".

This is another evidence that they were not real communists, statist-socialists - yes, of course)).
Well, about the socialists - with reservations. The principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work" was replaced by overestimation of standards instead of constant adequate encouragement, and there was no equality - the so-called. communist leaders, "public servants", had their own special clinics and special distribution centers. much different from clinics and shops for the proletariat.
Therefore, tatra, it is not entirely correct to consider the CPSU communists

[tatra]

I am simply "adored" by all VO trolls.

[Krasnodar]

And something on the case, as a matter of fact?

[Reptiloid]

.......You, comrade, tatra .....

You, colleague Krasnodar, seem to be guided by theory? What I don’t have, not at all. It does not enter my head, because I envy those who studied under the USSR with white envy.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Reptiloid

.......You, comrade, tatra .....

You, colleague Krasnodar, seem to be guided by theory? What I don’t have, not at all. It does not enter my head, because I envy those who studied under the USSR with white envy.

When the USSR collapsed, I was 15.))
By the age of 20 he began to read Marx, Lenin, Kropotkin and others.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Krasnodar

...... When the USSR collapsed, I was 15.))
By the age of 20 he began to read Marx, Lenin, Kropotkin and others.

aha! Such was the Soviet education! Even in the late USSR, when already decay came from within.
I just recently read Kropotkin about the Great French Revolution.

[Krasnodar]

So I then served in the Israeli army for a term
And he got carried away with communist ideas because of his life in a kibbutz - an anarchist commune. The theoretical basis was interesting, and I wanted to decide on the future.

[Reptiloid]

Interesting! Where was this kibbutz in Israel?

[Krasnodar]

Mine is in the North. In general, there are dozens of them throughout the country.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Krasnodar

.... In general, there are dozens of them throughout the country

I know. The lecture was.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote: Reptiloid

.......You, comrade, tatra .....

You, colleague Krasnodar, seem to be guided by theory? What I don’t have, not at all. It does not enter my head, because I envy those who studied under the USSR with white envy.

When the USSR collapsed, I was 15.))
By the age of 20 he began to read Marx, Lenin, Kropotkin and others.

If you were in the 60s, you would not have to read anything to understand "what is good and what is bad." It was all obvious. The Stalinist USSR - that was good, because then it was still "touched" by it. Then it was different. Although, of course, many people read Marx, Lenin, etc.

[Krasnodar]

Greetings!
It depends on where - the father recalled the beginning of the 60s in Moldova as a time of hunger. Those. everything was in stores - salary was scanty.
In terms of welfare, everything became normal under Brezhnev.
My childhood memories - from the 86th a decrease in the range, a drop in product quality, etc.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Greetings!
It depends on where - the father recalled the beginning of the 60s in Moldova as a time of hunger. Those. everything was in stores - salary was scanty.
In terms of welfare, everything became normal under Brezhnev.
My childhood memories - from the 86th a decrease in the range, a drop in product quality, etc.

Colleague,
In the mid-60s, in the regions of Ukraine adjacent to Moldova, it was already more or less - I saw it with my own eyes. Not honey, of course, but there were no particular problems. I don't think there was another life for 100 km - the Union, nevertheless, was a pretty "cooperative" state Of course, I did not see the beginning of the 60s, but at that time my great-uncle was the chairman of the State Bank of Moldova, relatives often went to Chisinau, no one remembered about the famine. Maybe everyone has their own memories, of course. As for the decrease in the assortment and the decline in quality, all this appeared already in the mid-70s, when the Stalinist reserve was "eaten away". Remember, maybe Stalin's remark, like, for the New Year, a Soviet person should afford champagne? In the 70s, it was already, in general, not giving a damn about the Soviet person. We lived in a closed military town, where everything was, but for delicious Salami and cheese with mold we already went to the city, to a cooperative store.

[Krasnodar]

There was everything - no doubt. In the shops. The problem is what the hard workers could afford for the salary. According to the recollections of his father, in the border town, the peasant's breakfast was bread with sunflower oil and onions.
There was no hunger as such, of course. They ate meagerly - I'm talking about the bulk of the population. Employees of the level of your great-uncle - it is clear that they could afford the entire range of stores and even more

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

There was everything - no doubt. In the shops. The problem is what the hard workers could afford for the salary. According to the recollections of his father, in the border town, the peasant's breakfast was bread with sunflower oil and onions.
There was no hunger as such, of course. They ate meagerly - I'm talking about the bulk of the population. Employees of the level of your great-uncle - it is clear that they could afford the entire range of stores and even more

Well, I didn't say a word about my grandfather's assortment, I noted the impressions of my relatives from Chisinau. Although this grandfather was very modest. Of all the privileges he recognized only a company car, tk. after the Civil one was left without a leg. Of course, the further from the center, the more it was different. Now, by the way, too. And I myself had relatives from Rybnitsa, but life gave up living in Kotovsk. I liked to visit there in the fall

[Krasnodar]

Under the Union, Moldova was a paradise in every sense - rest, Fruits - Vegetables, before the fig of industry, i.e. work, cultural life, fine cuisine and an excellent book publisher Lumin)).

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Under the Union, Moldova was a paradise in every sense - rest, Fruits - Vegetables, before the fig of industry, i.e. work, cultural life, fine cuisine and an excellent book publisher Lumin)).

I had many colleagues from Moldova - oh, what homemade wines they brought!

[Krasnodar]

My first booze in life is homemade sherry

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

My first booze in life is homemade sherry

Do not press on the corn - tied it up. Only cognac with beer! And how he loved sherry, Madeira, vermouth ... (

[Krasnodar]

After a heart attack, I only have a coronet ... before that, everything, at once and a lot

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

After a heart attack, I only have a coronet ... before that, everything, at once and a lot

Here it is, post-Soviet youth - all at once! And at first I was engaged in athletics, then - heavy, and only then - all at once!

[Krasnodar]

So in Soviet childhood, I, too - and judo and so on))

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

So in Soviet childhood, I, too - and judo and so on))

No, in my Soviet childhood there was only chess, high jumps (according to the then new Fosbury flop technique) and acrobatics (this is when you perform a certain cascade of figures in the air from a projectile - a bridge, a horse, etc.); or it was gymnastics, I don't remember, but there were no exercises on the apparatus. The rest is already in his youth.

[Krasnodar]

Chess was also there))
There was a fat Jewish girl in the section who played very well. I met her in Israel - a lean officer and a beauty.
Then she married a Russian (Russian Russian) multimillionaire, now lives somewhere in the Moscow region, photos with geese, ducks and ... peacocks

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Chess was also there))
There was a fat Jewish girl in the section who played very well. I met her in Israel - a lean officer and a beauty.
Then she married a Russian (Russian Russian) multimillionaire, now lives somewhere in the Moscow region, photos with geese, ducks and ... peacocks

In the fucking twists and turns of fate! When I was a child, a Jewess sat with me at my desk - the sweetest creature! We went to chess with her and were neighbors. Her father, a nuclear physicist by profession, then served in our unit with the rank of major. Now he lives in the States, sometimes we communicate. And her surname was beautiful, but now it is typically Jewish. But everything suits her and I'm happy for her. To each - his own, as they say.

[Krasnodar]

Come on - we have so many beautiful surnames ... Dial, Barrier, Caliper ... An eccentric arrived in Israel at 91, the surname Gorbachev. In order not to laugh, I decided to change it to Hebrew. A connoisseur of surnames in the Ministry of Internal Affairs asked him - a guy, the root of the surname Gorbachoff?
- Hump.
- Yeah, in Hebrew Geben, the closest existing Hebrew surname ... Gavnuni.
- No, thanks, I'll stay better than Gorbachev ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Come on - we have so many beautiful surnames ... Dial, Barrier, Caliper ... An eccentric arrived in Israel at 91, the surname Gorbachev. In order not to laugh, I decided to change it to Hebrew. A connoisseur of surnames in the Ministry of Internal Affairs asked him - a guy, the root of the surname Gorbachoff?
- Hump.
- Yeah, in Hebrew Geben, the closest existing Hebrew surname ... Gavnuni.
- No, thanks, I'll stay better than Gorbachev ...

Irochka had a cool surname - Silver. When I was in a good mood, I called her Golden, when bad - Silver. And now she's just Kogan.

[Krasnodar]

Converted from Zilber or Zilberovich. Hebrew (Yiddish) - silver

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Converted from Zilber or Zilberovich. Hebrew (Yiddish) - silver

No, stupidly Kogan is married. Are Yiddish and German so similar? Zilber and in German silver. And, by the way, the main newspaper in Birobidzhan was once called Rote Stern. Amazing. I studied German for so many years, but I could have 2 at once

[Krasnodar]

South Bavarian German is Yiddish

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

South Bavarian German is Yiddish

I didn't know! What do Jews have to do with German?

[Krasnodar]

As soon as the Romans conquered "Germany", the crowd went to trade, then settled on the banks of the Rhine. The very first large community was in Cologne. Then they moved to the territory of Bavaria and Austria. Yiddish - 70% German, 20% words from Hebrew, 10% words of Slavic origin, tk. then most of the Jews lived in Poland and Ukraine.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

As soon as the Romans conquered "Germany", the crowd went to trade, then settled on the banks of the Rhine. The very first large community was in Cologne. Then they moved to the territory of Bavaria and Austria. Yiddish - 70% German, 20% words from Hebrew, 10% words of Slavic origin, tk. then most of the Jews lived in Poland and Ukraine.

Well, now it's clear, thanks!

[Krasnodar]

Yiddish is already dying away a little, they speak it mostly from native speakers - modern Jews have a Hebrew language of communication. It's a pity - there are no such swearing words and curses in any language of the world.
Once he swore at an orthodox in Yiddish, he stood with an open mouth and clenched fists, and then, as he burst out laughing, he almost climbed to hug ..)))

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Yiddish is already dying away a little, they speak it mostly from native speakers - modern Jews have a Hebrew language of communication. It's a pity - there are no such swearing words and curses in any language of the world.
Once he swore at an orthodox in Yiddish, he stood with an open mouth and clenched fists, and then, as he burst out laughing, he almost climbed to hug ..)))

Come on! I heard many swear in Russian. Although I myself have not heard. But where is the thread in Israel, it's probably true

[Krasnodar]

Swear, how
In Yiddish it's like - my ass is your face is a matchmaker with a matchmaker, kiss me there, but only after three pieces of paper, etc. That is, not abruptly, but deliciously)).

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Swear, how
In Yiddish it's like - my ass is your face is a matchmaker with a matchmaker, kiss me there, but only after three pieces of paper, etc. That is, not abruptly, but deliciously)).

In Russian mate, everything is much straightforward

[Krasnodar]

Well, yes - where to go, what kind of parents, what to do, etc. ))

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Well, yes - where to go, what kind of parents, what to do, etc. ))

Aha But I'm not swearing. Generally. He was a child, he wandered around the barracks - cursing, yes. Well, with whom you will lead, as they say. And how he got into the army - how it was cut off. Descendants of Poles and Buryats choose Russian At the school, the ethics teachers said that I was the only one in the history of the school who was given grades "automatically," because everyone in the army swears except me

[Krasnodar]

Wow
In the IDF, too, absolutely everyone swears and this is part of its only army, but also the culture of the country as a whole.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Wow
In the IDF, too, absolutely everyone swears and this is part of its only army, but also the culture of the country as a whole.

I just don't need to swear - I have enough Russian language for everything.

[Krasnodar]

I swear - but I agree with you entirely)).

[Doliva63]

Well, here it is, consensus!

[Radius]

Quote: Doliva63

Quote: Krasnodar

Converted from Zilber or Zilberovich. Hebrew (Yiddish) - silver

Birobidzhan's main newspaper was once called Rote Stern.

The newspaper was called Birobidzhanen Stern.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Radius

Quote: Doliva63

Quote: Krasnodar

Converted from Zilber or Zilberovich. Hebrew (Yiddish) - silver

Birobidzhan's main newspaper was once called Rote Stern.

The newspaper was called Birobidzhanen Stern.

Like a Birobidzhan star? I don't need a Yiddish translator, it turns out

[Radius]

Yes :) School German is enough.

[Doliva63]

Quote: tatra

Well, if Oleg started talking about the Russians, then this is how I answer. If he started talking about the Soviet people, then I would answer about the Soviet people. And it is very difficult after the capture of the USSR by the enemies of the communists to be an internationalist, after what the enemies of the communists of different nationalities did to the Russians.

The weakest of you a communist, Tatra. Communism is internationalism, anyway. Nationalism divides people, it plays into the hands of capital - it's easier to steer the masses. Including - you.

[Krasnodar]

Here is the difference between national and class struggle "communist" tatra does not understand Maybe she's just a friend of the communists?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Here is the difference between national and class struggle "communist" tatra does not understand Maybe she's just a friend of the communists?

Hurry girlfriend

[Andrey Korotkov]

Lyokha from Android + apro - what are you arguing about？ There was a USSR - the Union of Independent! And you srach raised about the Russians

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Stalin warmed the viper on his chest.

That's for sure. They say he was on his knees before Stalin, and then he took revenge, but not on him, but on the whole country.

[tasha]

They say they stood on their knees before Stalin

And do you believe that? Where do the firewood come from?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: tasha

And do you believe that? Where do the firewood come from?

The film was on "Star" with a title something like "The curse of the children of the leaders." From it "drovishki" ....)))

[tasha]

And you believe that?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: tasha

And you believe that?

As the version of "Zvezda" stated)))

[depressant]

And here is the version of the KGB General Mikhail Dokuchaev:
“Once, during the war, Khrushchev phoned Stalin from the front. And he urgently asked to accept him. Before that, Stalin was informed that Khrushchev’s son Leonid, a military pilot, had committed a serious crime, for which capital punishment is imposed. According to archival documents, after all, what happened in Kuibyshev, Khrushchev's son really ended up at the front in a squadron of fighter pilots.In this regard, the question arises: if L. Khrushchev was threatened with capital punishment, then for what exactly? Was it an accidental murder or something else?
Khrushchev at a reception with Stalin decided to state his request. As he spoke, Khrushchev burst into tears, and then began to sob. They say, the son is to blame, let him be severely punished, just do not shoot ...
... Stalin said: "In the current situation, I can do nothing to help." Khrushchev fell to his knees. Begging, he began to crawl at the feet of Stalin, who did not expect such a turn of affairs and was himself at a loss.
"Spare my fatherly feelings!" - Khrushchev exclaimed, trying to beg the Supreme to postpone the verdict and transfer from the front to the rear.
"Did your son spare the murdered father's feelings?" - Stalin answered ...
... Stalin retreated, and Khrushchev crawled behind him on his knees, crying and asking for mercy for his son. Stalin asked Khrushchev to get up and pull himself together, but he was insane. Stalin was forced to call Poskrebyshev and the guards. When they flew into the office, they saw this whole unsightly picture.
Khrushchev kept repeating: "Have mercy on your son, do not shoot ..."
Stalin refused to grant pardon to Khrushchev's son, who had committed a crime. A tragedy struck in the Khrushchev family. The incident at the meeting between Khrushchev and Stalin is still remembered, especially when it comes to the relationship between Stalin and Khrushchev. In particular, it is argued that this is the main reason for all Khrushchev's attacks on Stalin and one of the main reasons for the exposure of the personality cult.

Information taken from LJ, user
arizonss20

[populist]

Quote: depressant

depressant (lyudmila yakovlevna kuznetsova) Today, 11:43
And here is the version of the KGB General Mikhail Dokuchaev:

In March 1942 L. N. Khrushchev was discharged from the hospital. He was sent for retraining to the 3rd separate training aviation regiment, where he underwent retraining for the Yak-7 fighter.
According to the recollections of Rada Khrushcheva (half-sister of Leonid) and Stepan Mikoyan, in the fall of 1942 Leonid at a party, being drunk and playing Wilhelm Tell (a pistol was used instead of a crossbow), [15] was sentenced to eight years with serving at the front [11] [16] (this fact is questioned by Nina Khrushcheva [9]). According to other sources, the incident was quickly hushed up without any judicial authorities [1
In December 1942, he was sent to the 18th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment of the 1st Air Army (Western Front). In less than three months, the senior lieutenant managed to make twenty-eight training and six combat missions, participated in three air battles.

On March 11, 1943, Leonid did not return from a combat mission. His plane was shot down in the Kozhanovka-Yasenok-Ashkovo area. According to the memoirs of the pilot I. A. Zamorin, who was accompanying him: “When the FW-190 rushed to my car to attack, coming under my right wing from below, Lenya Khrushchev, in order to save me from death, threw his plane in front of a fokker fire salvo ... After an armor-piercing strike Khrushchev's plane literally crumbled before my eyes! ”[16] [18].
The command of the 18th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment of the 303rd Aviation Division organized searches for the site of the plane's fall from the air, partisans were requested, but the search did not yield any results. A month and a half later, Leonid Khrushchev was excluded from the lists of the unit as missing [4] [10] [19]. In June 1943 he was posthumously awarded the Order of the Patriotic War, 1943st degree (was presented in April 9) [20] [21] [XNUMX].
---------------
It is unlikely that the executed Leonid could be awarded an order.

[depressant]

Awesome, colleague Narodnik!
So Leonid was not shot, and Khrushchev begged Stalin for the opportunity to return Leonid from the front, where he was "exiled" for the murder of a sailor. Stalin refused, and Leonid died. And if he had not refused, Khrushchev's son was returned from the front and survived. In any of the versions, it turns out that, according to Khrushchev, Stalin is the murderer of his son. And he himself has nothing to do with it. And I didn’t try to educate Leonid so that he would understand that playing William Tell is the last thing!

[tasha]

You, Lyudmila, I think, have already accepted the version of NS Khrushchev. on the knees. Although ... Mikhail Stepanovich Dokuchaev during the war fought against the Nazis at the front and got into the 9th directorate only in the 70s. This time. And two. I don’t know about you, but it seems to me that the described situation does not characterize for the better that N.S. Khrushchev, that I.V. Stalin. Think about it ..

[Free wind]

Personal meetings with Stalin took place in private, at best it could be who he had a personal assistant there. In those years, a general could at most be a major, and whoever would admit him to Stalin's office. Moreover, to be present at such a scene. So this is a lie from start to finish. Khrushchev's son was an excellent bomber pilot, and a volunteer. since a Finnish company, he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. He studied hard on the fighter. Posthumously awarded the Order of the Patriotic War.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Stroporez

Quote: tasha

And do you believe that? Where do the firewood come from?

The film was on "Star" with a title something like "The curse of the children of the leaders." From it "drovishki" ....)))

I will try to find

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Stroporez

....... They say he was on his knees before Stalin, and then he took revenge, but not on him, but on the whole country.

This version or not, we can assume, of course. But it is certain that even before the Second World War, he congratulated Stalin in writing on his birthday, at the same time, denounced, exposed, as he called them ---... enemies of Stalin ... This has survived. Demonstrated his devotion in different ways ...

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

Demonstrated his devotion in different ways ...

I just wanted to live.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: Reptiloid

Demonstrated his devotion in different ways ...

I just wanted to live.

Well, yes, especially when he participated in the repression

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

Well, yes, especially when he participated in the repression

Exactly, Dmitry. Its skin is closer to the body. But so many did so. And Zhukov, and Rokossovsky, and ... at the XX Congress they did not say a word against Khrushchev and for Stalin. And Kaganovich, Molotov and Voroshilov, who signed death sentences together with Stalin, reviled him ... Also ... they wanted to live and live well!

[Richard]

Its skin is closer to the body. But so many did so. And Zhukov, and Rokossovsky, and ... at the XX Congress, and did not say a word against Khrushchev and for Stalin

Rokossovsky is not on the list of 1349 delegates with a casting vote and 81 delegates with an advisory vote present at the 20th Congress. Nor is he on the list of representatives from the PUWP at the congress, of which Konstantin Konstantinovich was a member of the Central Committee.

And this is not surprising - from 14 to 25 February 1956, when the congress was held, he was in Poland, about which he himself narrates in his memoirs "Soldier's Duty"

[kalibr]

Quote: Lech from Android.

And as the leader of the nations died and showed his real nasty gut.

And the rest of the Supreme Party members at the XX Congress were silent. Their insides were not disgusting

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

And the rest of the Supreme Party members at the XX Congress kept silent... Their insides were not disgusting

and NONE of the "faithful" Stalinists and did not remain silent, all at the XX Congress, furiously and with all the Bolshevik directness (as before in 37,38,39,40yy,) ....condemned the cult of personality:

Here they are, handsome, stigmatize perversions :

G.M. Malenkov:

“... There is no doubt that in the whole party those important measures taken by the Central Committee during the reporting period were received with great satisfaction, against the personality cult, alien to the spirit of Marxism-Leninism. The report rightly emphasized that the cult of personality is a perversion of the Marxist-Leninist teaching. This is a perversion inevitably leads to the belittling of the role of the party and its leading center, to the suppression of the creative activity of the party masses. There is no need to prove that perversion the Marxist understanding of the role of personality, the cult of personality - all this led to the peremptory nature of single-handed decisions, arbitrariness and in a certain period caused great damage to the cause of leadership of the party and the country.

V.M. Molotov:

“Both our serious successes in the internal affairs of the country and important successes in the field of foreign policy are connected with the fact that after the XNUMXth Congress the Central Committee implemented the Leninist principle of collective leadership. Supported by the whole party The Central Committee firmly opposed the personality cult, alien to Marxism-Leninism, which played such a negative role in a certain period. You can express confidence that this convention will fully approve this fundamental principle ”(p. 467).

JI.M. Kaganovich:

“After the XNUMXth Party Congress, the Central Committee boldly (I mean principled, ideological, theoretical courage) raised the question of the struggle against the personality cult. This is not an easy questionfrom. The cult of personality is a harmful cult, it belittles the masses, the party and its leading cadres.

Exposing the personality cult, a correct Marxist-Leninist understanding of the role of the masses, the role of the party and its leading cadres, and the role of leaders is extremely important for strengthening the unity of the party. The fight against the personality cult turned out to be the most important factor in the formation and rallying of the collective leadership of our party " (p. 532).

K.E. Voroshilov:

“During the period under review, the Central Committee firmly and consistently pursued the Leninist principle of collective leadership in its activities.

We must continue to strengthen this Leninist principle of collectivity in our work, because only under these conditions can we warn ourselves against possible mistakes ...

What is written with a pen ...

These "faithful" Stalinists, for their "ideals", did not go underground, nor to barricades, nor to hard labor, but courageously "suffered" under the accursed Khrushchev-Trotskyites on state dachas with special distributors , on state vehicles and personal pensions.

And yes - the resolution condemning the personality cult at the XX Congress was adopted UNANIMOUSLY, there was not a single opposition in the party.

So, Grover Ferr, professor at Montclair State University, from the state of New Jersey, in the monograph-research "Anti-Stalin meanness" noted:

"Of all the statements of the" closed report "that directly" expose "Stalin, there was no not a single truthwillow.

the professor is simply a pathological LIAR himself and jot: wasn’t 75% of the Central Committee of the Party of the 17th Congress and most of the delegates shot? Was there no Yezhovism? Wasn't there a stupid business of doctors? And so on and so forth? Go refute, "professor"

[tatra]

Yes, the Communists and the Chekists did a poor job. As soon as your "Liberator" Gorbachev, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, seized power, for 30 years pretending to be a "loyal communist" for this, gave you freedom of speech and action, it immediately became clear what a huge number of you crawled into the CPSU, Soviet power, and were just waiting in the wings to destroy everything that the communists had created.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

what a huge number of you climbed into the CPSU, Soviet power, and were just waiting in the wings to destroy everything that they created the communists .

Hats!

[Olgovich]

Quote: tatra

Yes ,did a bad job communists and chekists ... it turned out what a huge number of you climbed into the CPSU, Soviet power,

"Enemies of the Communists" after all the real Chekists are "hard workers" in good faith killed each other from 1936 to 1956, and, as you know, there are already ...not left for 1970-80s (non-reproducible piece goods, as it turned out.)

The same with the real Bolsheviks - no more no one (non-reproducible piece goods, as it turned out.)

And who would, in such conditions (some traitors all around - in the party, in the organs) with the enemies of the communists would have fought: with ... themselves, or what?

And the real Bolsheviks, I see just now began to hatch, but where were they from .... 1953 to 1991 ?
And where without a trace , without a fight they disappeared, these millions are fearless wrestlers?

Here you are, I see, a real Bolshevik, and why didn't you create it in the 1980s a real Leninist party in exile, underground, did not go to hard labor, agitation, like the fighters of the Lenin-Ulyanovs at the beginning of the century?

that the damned renegade bloodhounds drove Gorbachev-Shevardnadze underground?
Were the cruel KGB people tortured in the cells?
what a nightmarrrr ,,

[tatra]

Ha, why do I need this "footcloth" of yours? The enemies of the communists, after they were "freed" by Gorbachev, proved what a huge number of criminals and fierce enemies of their country and people on the territory of the USSR. And there is no difference between those of you who, under communist rule, pretended to be communists and their supporters, and all of you who, since your Perestroika, pretend to be "great philanthropists" strictly in your anti-Sovietism to justify the capture of the USSR by you.

[Olgovich]

Quote: tatra

The enemies of the communists, after they were "liberated" by Gorbachev, proved what a huge number of criminals and fierce enemies of their country and people on the territory of the USSR ...

with the invading enemies, everything is just clear, but the other is not clear. WHOM did they seize? ... Enemies captured from ... enemies?

After all, there have been no real Bolsheviks in the leadership, no Nastchekists since 1953? Al forgot already?

And I will repeat the question for "Enemies of the Communists":

why you, a real Bolshevik, did not create in the 1980s a real Leninist party in exile, underground, did not go to hard labor, agitation, like the Lenin-Ulyanov fighters at the beginning of the century?

what the damned Gorbachev-Shevardnadze's renegade bloodhounds driven underground?

tell, yes, about your torture for the big thing in dungeons on Gorbachev-Yakovlev penal servitude

[tatra]

The enemies of the communists are completely lacking in elementary logic and common sense. If a

After all, there have been no real Bolsheviks in the leadership, nor Nastchekists since 1953.

, then WHO was in Soviet power before your "Liberator" Gorbachev? Are you enemies of the communists?

[Olgovich]

Quote: tatra

If
After all, there have been no real Bolsheviks in the leadership, nor Nastchekists since 1953.
, then WHO was in Soviet power before your "Liberator" Gorbachev? Are you enemies of the communists?

well, finally, thank God! At least one nastbolshevik will tell now the real truth after 1953.

List the same REAL Bolsheviks in the leadership of the party and the country after 1953 and AS them, snow-white furry unhappy, crumpled insidious enemies!

And yes, how did they, bastards, made their way (on their bellies, apparently?) To the very peaks and why did the Nast-Chekists, Nast-Communists (you) not stop them?

and again, tell us about your torture for a big idea in the dungeons at the Gorbachev-Yakovlev penal servitude

[tatra]

DO NOT twist. If the communists were not in power after 1953 and before Gorbachev, then WHO?

[Olgovich]

Quote: tatra

DO NOT twist. If not the communists were in power after 1953 and before Gorbachev then WHO ?

here I ask : who? : surnames real communist leaders of the country and the party after 1953 -on the table !! Whom of the Bolsheviks overthrown by the enemies of the Communists?

Enough fidgeting, otherwise spin like the enemy of the communists in a frying pan .
Is this what the Bolsheviks do?

[tatra]

As always, the enemies of the communists scold whatever they hit, and then they cannot substantiate, prove their words, and begin to get out in a cowardly way. It was YOU who declared that after 1953 there were no communists in the leadership of the USSR, but WHO were -You are not able to answer. And I don’t need more of your senseless verbiage-answer only this question-WHO was in the leadership of the USSR after 1953, you can’t-walk by.

[Olgovich]

Quote: tatra

And I don't need more of your senseless verbiage - only answer this question -Who was in the leadership of the USSR after 1953, you can not, go by.

I do not know !!

and I ask you to name it by Surname nastcommunists the leadership of the party and the country.

Well, what does it cost you, huh?

[Andrey Korotkov]

Olgovich, I ask you to refrain from, piece goods, my grandfathers and great-grandfathers in part were both for and against.

[kalibr]

Quote: Olgovich

K.E. Voroshilov:

"And Voroshilov is the first red officer with us, he will be able to shed blood for the USSR." Apparently tired of him shedding blood.

[bk0010]

Quote: Olgovich

the professor is simply a pathological LIAR himself and jot: wasn’t 75% of the Central Committee of the Party of the 17th Congress and most of the delegates shot? Was there no Yezhovism? Wasn't there a stupid business of doctors? And so on and so forth? Go refute, "professor"

I am not a professor, but I can easily refute it: it was not Stalin who started all this, but Stalin stopped all this (well, except for the doctors' case).

[Olgovich]

Quote: bk0010

Has not 75% of the Central Committee of the Party of the 17th Congress and the majority of the delegates been shot? Was there no Yezhovism? Wasn't there a stupid business of doctors? And so on and so forth? Go refute, "professor"
I am not a professor, but I will easily refute:

the professor stated that in the report no not a single truthful statement that there is a FALSE ...

:

Quote: bk0010

Stalin did not start all this, but Stalin stopped all this (

Well, yes, well, yes ... G. Zhukov, 1957, transcript, an excerpt from the report at the plenum, only one day in 1938:

Volume 9, p. 210 contains Yezhov's letter to Stalin, written on a scrap of dirty paper, with the following content: “To Comrade Stalin. I am sending you the lists of those arrested to be tried by the Military Collegium in the first category. Yezhov ". Resolution: “For the shooting all 138 people. I. St., V. Molotov ".

Among these people, doomed to die, Alksnis, Antonov, Bubnov, Dybenko, Mezhlauk, Rudzutak, Chubar, Unshlikht etc. (Noise in the hall).

Yezhov's next note. Secret. “I am sending for approval 4 lists for persons subject to trial: for 313, for 208, for 5 wives of enemies of the people, for military workers - 200 people. I ask for sanctions to condemn everyone to be shot. 20.VIII.38, Yezhov. "

Stalin's resolution: “According... I. St., V. Molotov 20.VIII ".

On the same day, on the 20th, the list arrived, and on the 20th the fate was decided: “for” - and a bullet in the forehead.

You all or most of you know Yakir, a well-known growing major worker .. On June 29, 1937, on the eve of his death, he wrote a letter to Stalin, in which he addresses:

«Dear, close comrade Stalin! I dare to address you this way, for I have said everything and I think that I am an honest and loyal fighter to the Party, the state, the people, as I have been for many years. All my conscious life was spent in selfless, honest work in the sight of the Party and its leaders. I am dying with words of love for you, the party, the country, with fervent faith in the victory of communism».

This statement contains the following resolution:
"-To my archive. Art. A scoundrel and a prostitute. Stalin.
- An absolutely precise definition. Molotov.
- Bastard, bastards and b - one punishment - the death penalty. Kaganovich ". (Noise in the hall).

(Voices: Executioners! Let's answer.)

stopped, you say? List when at least these were rehabilitated - Alksnis, Antonov, Bubnov, Dybenko, Mezhlauk, Rudzutak, Chubar, Unshlikht - come on!

[Foul skeptic]

the professor stated that there is not a single truthful statement in the report that there is a FALSE ...

Why are you distorting? He said something else - that the statements of the report, which it turned out to be possible to verify, all turned out to be false.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Why are you distorting? He said something else - that the statements of the report, which it turned out to be possible to verify, all turned out to be false.

why are you lying all the time?

His resume:

ALL "Closed report" is woven entirely from such fraudulent practices. "

which is a dumb lie.

[Foul skeptic]

In your "resume" there is an emphasis on "juggling of THIS sort." And what SUCH grade does he mean written above:

those of them that are verifiable, every one of them turned out to be deceitful

which is a dumb lie.

Argue about this with the author, sorting out his book point by point.

PS Interestingly, let's say the author of this book (or the publisher) embellished for annotation (which is likely) and for the entire report out of N statements, he showed only 61 statements (and N> 61), which does not correspond to reality. What does this change with regard to the veracity of the report itself, or rather the goals it pursues? Is 61 not enough for you?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

In your "resume" there is an emphasis on "juggling of THIS sort." And what SUCH grade does he mean written above:

in ITS resume emphasis on the word ALL in relation to the report, which is supposedly all based on rigging

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Argue about this with the author, sorting out his book point by point.

He lies, using the word ALL, for there is truth, mostly

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

PS Interestingly, let's say the author of this book (or publisher)

not interesting

[Foul skeptic]

because it's true, mostly

And not mainly? Not true?
Let's do it easier, you name an example of the truth of the report (in quotation), and just look at the book, whether this quote falls under "directly" exposing "Stalin" (because just a given fact, being true, at the same time may not have a relationship with Stalin), and, if it does, we look at how the author refutes it. Then we will understand. Ready? I recommend transferring further conversation to private messages.

[Foul skeptic]

You have a complaint about the word "all", but at the same time:

what do you all time are lying?

This is also then:

is a dumb lie

?

[bk0010]

What does it have to do

Quote: Olgovich

stopped, you say?

к

Quote: Olgovich

List when at least these were rehabilitated - Alksnis, Antonov, Bubnov, Dybenko, Mezhlauk, Rudzutak, Chubar, Unshlikht - come on!

?
Until 1938, Stalin was not the sole ruler of the USSR, but "one of". Companions successfully destroyed each other in the struggle for power, as they destroyed Stalin replaced Yezhov with Beria, who began to curtail repression and review cases. Recently there was a series of articles on the site about the struggle of biases, read.

[kalibr]

Quote: bk0010

Until 1938, Stalin was not the sole ruler of the USSR, but "one of".

Oh really? Reread Lenin's Letter to the Congress. During Lenin's lifetime, he had enough power in abundance!

[bk0010]

Quote: kalibr

Oh really? Reread Lenin's Letter to the Congress. During Lenin's lifetime, he had enough power in abundance!

Exactly. Reread carefully. He writes "immense power" and does not write what it consists of. At the time of this writing, Trotsky, Bukharin and other future victims were influencing Stalin like a bull to a sheep. By the way, this is most likely why Stalin was not repressed in his time: at first they were not perceived as a threat, and then they could not.

[kalibr]

Quote: bk0010

"immense power"

In my opinion, this is quite enough. Why are there any clarifications?

[bk0010]

Quote: kalibr

In my opinion, this is quite enough. Why are there any clarifications?

Not perfect enough.

[BAI]

All or most of you know Yakir, a well-known and growing major worker .. On June 29, 1937, on the eve of his death, he wrote a letter to Stalin, in which he addresses:
“Dear, close comrade Stalin! I dare to address you in this way, for I have said everything, and it seems to me that I am an honest and loyal fighter to the party, state, people, as I have been for many years. All my conscious life was spent in selfless, honest work in the sight of the Party and its leaders. I am dying with words of love for you, the party, the country, with fervent faith in the victory of communism. "

This statement contains the following resolution:
“-In my archive. Art. A scoundrel and a prostitute. Stalin.
- An absolutely precise definition. Molotov.
- Bastard, bastards and b - one punishment - the death penalty. Kaganovich ". (Noise in the hall).

All forgery:

In addition to some insignificant errors (Yakir's letter, for example, was written on June 9, not June 29, 1937), a number of significant distortions can be noticed in Zhukov's speech. The first and foremost of them, of course, is that Yakir has repeatedly confirmed his guilt in the crimes he has committed. Together with Stalin, Molotov and Kaganovich, Voroshilov left his resolution in the letter, but his name was not mentioned at all by Zhukov. Literally on the eve of the Plenum, Voroshilov backpedaled and retreated from Malenkov, Molotov and Kaganovich, who were seeking the resignation of Khrushchev. He, in turn, despite harsh criticism of Voroshilov, made an exception for him and did not demand the punishment assigned to the remaining "troika". Exactly the same castrated letter from Yakir in 1961, Alexander Shelepin read out at the 261nd Congress of the CPSU. (XNUMX)
In 1957, not a single member of the "anti-party group" protested against the forgery committed by Zhukov. From which we can conclude: neither Malenkov, nor Molotov, nor Kaganovich had access to archival sources, even though they were all members of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the CPSU. Perhaps Marshal Zhukov himself did not even think that he was reading the text of a forged document. But for Khrushchev's "interrogators" such manipulations were not a secret: after all, Yakir's letter was received from them. On the other hand, they would not dare to take a step without Khrushchev's knowledge. Consequently, he, too, was aware of the machinations with Yakir's letter.
For the same reasons, none of the "rehabilitation" decisions, on the basis of which many of the repressed party members were declared innocent, cannot be trusted. This is also true for other materials prepared specifically for Khrushchev.

Next:

If we talk about historical science, then almost all studies devoted to Stalin and his era and published over the past half century, in one way or another, rely on Soviet publications of Khrushchev's time. (264) Such works include many or even most of the non-emigrant sources, abundantly cited in the writings of Robert Conquest, including his weighty Great Terror. Another example: in the famous biography of Bukharin, written by Stephen Cohen, (265) all the evidence in the last chapter of the book, which deals with the 1930s, is drawn from sources of the Khrushchev period and sometimes from the "secret report" itself; thus, almost every statement by the author turns out to be false. None of this kind of research can be considered scientifically sound if there is no way to independently verify all the statements contained there.
The same applies equally to the primary sources: Khrushchev and his closest associates used them in the most dishonorable way in speeches and business correspondence. Therefore, without getting acquainted with the originals of documents and texts without cuts, it is impossible to say how conscientiously they were quoted by Khrushchev himself and the authors of books and articles published over the years! so-called "thaw".

[Olgovich]

Quote: BAI

All forgery:
In addition to some insignificant errors (Yakir's letter, for example, was written on June 9, not June 29, 1937), a number of significant distortions can be noticed in Zhukov's speech. The first and foremost of them, of course, is that Yakir has repeatedly confirmed his guilt in the crimes he has committed.

What is a forgery, dishonest?

Was there a yakir letter? It was. Was there a resolution? Was.

What is written with a pen, do not cut it out, just do not try to lie ..

No shame, no conscience ...

PS would have crossed you with boots, they would also have confessed to "crimes"

Quote: BAI

For the same reasons, none of the "rehabilitation" decisions, on the basis of which many of the repressed party members were declared innocent, cannot be trusted.

yeah, you can believe that, according to the USSR State Prosecutor Vyshinsky at the trials, the convicted leadership of the party and government"This is the SS and Gestapo team.".

So don't give a damn about your disbelief

[kalibr]

This statement contains the following resolution:
“-In my archive. Art. A scoundrel and a prostitute. Stalin.
- An absolutely precise definition. Molotov.
- Bastard, bastards and b - one punishment - the death penalty. Kaganovich ". (Noise in the hall).

Why didn't Molotov and Kaganovich say that this was a forgery? That they didn’t read this letter and didn’t sign it?

[kalibr]

Quote: bk0010

Stalin stopped all this (well, except for the case of doctors).

Read the "Truth" from 1946 to 1953 ...

[mr.ZinGer]

Is Stalin Russian?

[Pessimist22]

And who ruled the USSR after 1956, weren't they the communists?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Pessimist22

And who ruled the USSR after 1956, weren't they the communists?

Revisionists. It was after their skilful erasures and public speeches that it was revealed that the USSR produced only galoshes, and BOB owed its beginning not to "the kind and fluffy Hitler", but to the "evil Stalin."

[apro]

Quote: ROSS 42

Revisionists.

That's right.

[Pessimist22]

Whatever the CPSU was created, it remained so, by the way, Stalin cleaned up the ideological party in the party, who knew who he was, left only his sycophants, who took revenge on him later. Not an intelligent person, he enjoyed his own power, but he did not care about the future, otherwise he it would have happened, it was not for nothing that they called him Koba, Asian, he was cruel and vindictive.

[Moore]

Quote: Pessimist22

left only his sycophants

Yes Yes. Toady Beria (Soviet atomic project, state reserves and much more), toady Molotov (international relations), toady Ustinov (defense industry). Sneakers Zhukov, Shaposhnikov, etc. Thanks to these stupid sycophants, the war was won.

[Pessimist22]

Beria was shot as a stray dog ​​by his comrades-in-arms, and then these people whom you listed, exposed the personality cult of Stalin and threw his busts into the garbage pits.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Pessimist22

Beria was shot as a stray dog ​​by his comrades-in-arms, and then these people whom you listed, exposed the personality cult of Stalin and threw his busts into the garbage pits.

You take care of your health and will be able to see how the current associates will disown the "chosen idols" and expose their "intrigues", as well as remove (remove) portraits and slogans from the walls.
The ambiguous activities of Stalin's entourage bore fruit in different directions. Only no one has ever reproached either Stalin himself, or anyone close to him, either for plundering the national economy, or for destroying industry, or for pumping money abroad ...
It is not yet a fact that the "fraternal assistance" rendered to the Communist Parties under the National Union of Artists and Liberal Socialist Republics, as well as the SMS, did not go for other purposes ... The events in the early 90s were happening too quickly and strangely. Example:

At about five in the morning on August 26, 1991, the manager of the CPSU Central Committee N. Ye. Kruchina, under unclear circumstances, fell from the balcony of his apartment on the fifth floor of a house in Plotnikov Lane and crashed to his death. According to the data cited by the journalists of the Moscow News newspaper, Kruchina left a suicide note on the table:
“I cannot live when my Fatherland is dying and everything that I have always considered the meaning of my life is destroyed. Age and past my life give me the right to leave this life. I fought to the end "
According to the journalists of Moskovskiye Novosti, Kruchina left a thick folder with documents containing detailed information on the illegal commercial activities of the CPSU and the KGB, including the creation of offshore enterprises with party money outside the USSR in recent years.

One more fact:

On October 6, 1991, Kruchina's predecessor, 81-year-old Georgy Pavlov, falls from the window of his apartment as head of the Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU

And these were not the most "extreme" people in the party.

[Pessimist22]

I doubt that the capitalists will give up power to someone, this system will stay in Russia for a long time.

[apro]

Quote: Pessimist22

I doubt that the capitalists will give up power to someone, this system will stay in Russia for a long time.

Especially if you support him.

[Pessimist22]

Respected! By the way, I never supported, I have a heightened sense of justice and I believe that everything in Russia belongs to the people, and not to a bunch of swindlers. But unfortunately the Russians became passive, in the 60-70s, Western values ​​were successfully instilled in our diplomats and intelligence officers, as well as other members of the CPSU who have been abroad, and now society is divided and there are no prerequisites for a change, everyone is for himself and his own shirt is closer to the body.

[apro]

Quote: Pessimist22

and I believe that everything in Russia belongs to the people,

But in the end we support the Russian world and are suspicious of the communists.

[Reptiloid]

..... Russians have become passive. ....

no, they didn't. Just the post-revolutionary years, the improvement of life, the victory over fascism, the creation and strengthening of the socialist camp ---- all this brought a sense of confidence to the Soviet people ...
We dreamed about Space, about the development of science ...
Although, some not indifferent people noticed cracks. ........
There were films, warnings, literature, even cartoons like this, I found ...
Not understood? Didn't hear ...

[Reptiloid]

....and why.....

There are many questions, it turns out at that time, the 60-70s, the creative intelligentsia had premonitions, warnings, fears about the destruction of the USSR, including Kochetov's novel, for which he was subjected. ..prediction of the destruction of the USSR from the West, exactly as it happened. That is, the position of individual directors, people of art, was for the USSR, for socialism, it was possible to create works, although they often did not reach the population.
Ps several times the comment disappeared and it should be not here ц

[kalibr]

Why weren't our values ​​instilled in their diplomats and their spies? Ours are better!

[Pessimist22]

Well, there were very few ideological ones, they played on feelings, self-interest and vanity won.

[kalibr]

Quote: Pessimist22

Well, there were very few ideological ones, they played on feelings, self-interest and vanity won.

And they had a lot of ideological ones, right? Well, the atomic spy Fuchs, the Rosenbergs ... and what else? Didn't they seduce anyone in the government? And with us, it means one self-interest and vanity.

[Foul skeptic]

Why weren't our values ​​instilled in their diplomats and their spies? Ours are better!

Are our values ​​better or are our intelligence officers and diplomats better? ))

[Looking for]

Do not be mischievous.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Pessimist22

I doubt that the capitalists will give up power to someone, this system will stay in Russia for a long time.

Power is not given away, it is taken away. But so far there are no applicants. Not yet.

[tatra]

Yes, the enemies of the communists are generally mental traitors, they have long betrayed their benefactors Gorbachev and Yeltsin, tossed them to us, the supporters of Lenin and Stalin - "but they are not ours, they are your communists", and Putin will immediately betray, as soon as he leaves.

[kalibr]

Quote: ROSS 42

Revisionists.

Have the communists changed in three years? So fast? Or they were always unnoticed: they leaked, so to speak, to the very top unnoticed. What talented people ... And how many.

[Gardamir]

.And how many.

You will not deny that now the country is ruled by the "communists", and from top to bottom.

[kalibr]

Of course not. But they have changed. And then they also changed. Communists are changeable!

[Aviator_]

leaked, so to speak, to the very top unnoticed. What talented people ....

Vyacheslav, well, you can't be so immodest

[kalibr]

Quote: Aviator_

Vyacheslav, well, you can't be so immodest

Modesty like underwear. A must have, but not worth showing to everyone!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Aviator_

leaked, so to speak, to the very top unnoticed. What talented people ....

Vyacheslav, well, you can't be so immodest

Class !! Well said. Well, yes, with the support of several generations of relatives with positions and opportunities.

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

with positions and opportunities.

"Something has become with my memory, I remember everything that was not with me!"

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: Reptiloid

with positions and opportunities.

"Something has become with my memory, I remember everything that was not with me!"

As if not you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, repeatedly about the positions, merits of your relatives and you personally? And about salaries, income? Do you really think that only I remembered this?
Although, of course, I could have forgotten something, but I did not read everything and not always

[kalibr]

Dima, turn on your brain. My grandfather was born in 1891. Retired since 1960. When I went to college in 72, he was ... a lot. And no one needed him for all his merits, and even out of his mind he survived. My grandmother had 4 classes of education, since 1905 ... she married him at the age of 17. She also worked as a typist in the library. Although yes, during the war she worked as the head of the reception brigade at the station, received the wounded. But who needed it in 72 and 77? And my grandfather had a pension of 90, and she had 28 rubles. And my mother, yes, she was an assistant professor, but since the 70th she got married and did not live in Penza. And what profit did I get from all this? Did she come to take exams for me, or did she arrange for me to go to the village and to the SYUT? Or did she write books for Polymya and Enlightenment on technical creativity and broadcast on TV in Penza and Kuibyshev? You already, Dima, when you fantasize at least thought a little, and only then wrote.

[Reptiloid]

Remember yourself what you wrote. Here, suddenly, modesty, which cannot be shown like underwear, appeared ...
And why should I strain my brain about this

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

And why should I strain my brain about this

When there is nothing to turn on, it is clear that you will not turn it on. For modesty, Dima, what I wrote has nothing to do with it. I just do not like distortions of information, there are enough of them without you.

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

Or were always unnoticed: leaked so to speak, to the very top unnoticed.

No, "traitors, spies and saboteurs", according to the statements of the highest leadership of the party, constantly and stubbornly "sneaked and sneaked" to ... top positions in the army, state and party: along the corridors Kremlin, Lubyanka crawled and crawled, you bastards ...

[depressant]

Have the communists changed in three years? So fast? Or they were always unnoticed: they leaked, so to speak, to the very top unnoticed. What talented people ... And how many.

Vyacheslav Olegovich, the war took away 8,7 million servicemen, and these were the most morally healthy, ideologically convinced people, full of strength, ready to build a new society. As you can see, the loss was irreparable. The country was orphaned. But the ideological point of bifurcation has not yet been passed. Khrushchev paved a path to her.

[kalibr]

Quote: depressant

and these were the most morally healthy, ideologically convinced people, full of strength, ready to build a new society.

It means that only the dregs of society remained in the rear ...

[depressant]

Not. But there remained those whose ideological conviction was not tested in the harsh front-line conditions. There is also such a thing as steel hardening. And when it is not, then a more favorable environment leads to the alignment of beliefs. In words and on a party card, a person is a communist, and being too principled in an inappropriate environment means looking inadequate to its characteristics. Front and rear are different habitats.

[kalibr]

Quote: depressant

the war took away 8,7 million troops,

But what about 500 criminal cases of privates and 80 thousand officers? The most morally healthy, right? And another 1 million went over to the side of the enemy and ... And you can bring the data on crossbows and deserters, or you yourself will find it on the Internet. And the same communists among them were also quite a few. Think only non-partisans, right? As if...

[depressant]

Only 1% of the dead.
This percentage is the scale during hardening of steel, which is bitter, but inevitable. Yes, it was difficult to correspond to the new time, very much. And not even time, but sometimes to people who carry it out. Most of them managed to fit in, and two parts of opposing beliefs entered into confrontation. The ideology of the state was too new, too unusual. History rushed upwards, broke through the roof.

[kalibr]

Quote: depressant

The ideology of the state was too new, too unusual. History rushed up, broke through the roof.

But you wrote it correctly. But is 1 million from 8 million 1%. I have always been bad with math, sorry, but here it seems to me that you are mistaken. And the "criminal" is 500 thousand privates and 80 thousand officers ...

[Moore]

During the war years, 34 million people were mobilized.
A total of 999.510 Soviet servicemen were convicted (including 376.300 for desertion), of which:
- 427.910 people sent to the penalty units to the front;
- 436.600 people sent to prison;
- 135.000 people were shot.
Thus, 2,9% of the conscripts were convicted of criminal offenses. Excluding penalties (conviction was removed) - 1,65%. To believe that this percentage is lower in some warring army is to demonstrate naivety.
As for "those who have gone over to the side of the enemy." In fact, there are more than 1 million of them, depending on how you count. If we count the prisoners enrolled by the Germans from concentration camps in all sorts of formations, there are about 500 thousand of them. Of those called up in 1941-45, this is 1,45%. The rest - who were collected in the Baltic States, occupied territories, etc.
There were probably communists among all of them. Every family has its black sheep. Or does someone believe that the members of the NSDAP, for example, did not change the oath?

[kalibr]

Quote: Moore

To believe that this percentage is lower in some kind of warring army is to demonstrate naivety.

Very good comment. I must admit that I was counting on something like that. And nobody demonstrates naivety here. It's just that a lot of people here are talking about some special "Soviet people". Other armies are bourgeois. They are forgiven, And we have ideology, devotion, and all that. But in fact, he was not much different from all the others. That is, yes, many had high ideological qualities, but in general, in general, they were like diamonds in the middle of ... mud. And they served as examples for newspapers, books, movies and other people, but in general they did not make the difference. There were, most likely, 20% of them, but all the rest - 80%. That is why the USSR collapsed.

[Moore]

Quote: kalibr

And they served as examples for newspapers, books, movies and other people, but in general they did not make the difference. There were, most likely, 20% of them, but all the rest - 80%. That is why the USSR collapsed.

Well, it’s in human nature. Revolutions are not made by the masses. And coups too. Do you not think that 90% of those who voted 17.03.91/XNUMX/XNUMX for the preservation of the USSR had any meaning for a handful of quiet motherfuckers who decided everything long ago?
On the other hand, wars are won not by political intriguers or bloody dictators, but by morally and psychologically prepared peoples motivated to win. Nations in general, where the critical mass of the above mentioned part exceeds the percentage of vegetables.

[kalibr]

Quote: Moore

Nations in general, where the critical mass of the above mentioned part exceeds the percentage of vegetables.

GV Plekhanov wrote about this in his work on the development of a monistic view of history. So I don't believe anything ... Why? But I am sure that this is a bad system, where a handful ... can decide everything for a huge people.
"but morally and psychologically prepared peoples motivated to win"
Well, yes, but somehow our prepared and motivated people did not show themselves either in 91 or in 93. So it turns out that it is our vegetables that rule.

[Olgovich]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: Pessimist22
And who ruled the USSR after 1956, weren't they the communists?

Revisionists.

And where did the revisionists come from - was it not from a party purged to sterile brilliance (up to 50% of party members were expelled by 1938)?

And incidentally, where else in the world was there a party in which there were so many traitors, traitors, spies, divinersanots (this is all according to the verdicts of conscientious courts and triplets)?

Even immediate family Stalin (brothers, sisters of his wife, their wives, husbands, children, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, matchmaker) turned out to be ... spies, saboteurs and poisoners (according to the verdicts of Soviet courts) - how, you bastards, got close!

[Ros 56]

Let's just say, party members, but what kind of communists they were, this is a question of questions.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

the bulk of the communists could not repel this ideological blow.

Honor, intelligence and conscience of the era!

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

Honor, intelligence and conscience of the era!

Compared to today's Russians ... yes.

[Boris55]

Quote: apro

The first victory of the Russians over the communists

The victory was not the Russians over the communists, but the Trotskyist communists over the Bolshevik communists. The result of this was that the Russians became the largest divided people, incl. calling it a victory for the Russians is very, very problematic.

There is a good analytical note: "Judas sin of the XX Congress."
https://bookscafe.net/download/sssr_vnutrenniy-iudin_greh_hh_sezda-73582.rtf.zip

[apro]

Quote: Boris55

The victory was not the Russians over the communists

The Russian national project is essentially bourgeois, not communist. The Trotskyists advocated the bourgeoisie of the USSR. These are the former Socialist-Revolutionaries.

[Boris55]

Quote: apro

The Russian national project is essentially bourgeois, not communist.

There were two main opposing factions in the Communist Party - the Bolsheviks and the Trotskyists. After the party was renamed from the CPSU (b) to the CPSU in 1953, a "quiet purge" of the Bolsheviks in the party began. In the abbreviation KPSS, there is no mention of the Bolsheviks, (b).

Quote: apro

Trotskyists fought for the bourgeoisie of the USSR. These are the former Socialist-Revolutionaries.

I understood you correctly, in your opinion the Trotskyists are Socialist-Revolutionaries?
By the way, it was the Social Revolutionaries who created the first councils.

[apro]

Quote: Boris55

I understood you correctly, in your opinion the Trotskyists are Socialist-Revolutionaries?

Yes, rightly so. At one time they put on a small rural proprietor, which won the sympathy of part of the peasantry.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

then yes.

Look on the web how many delegates of the "congress of winners" were shot. These were even more honest, cleverer and more conscientious — after all, the delegates to the Congress of Soviets. Or them, too, Khrushchev, that ...

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

Look on the web how many delegates of the "congress of winners" were shot.

The more such screams I hear. The more clearly I understand that there is little. The case of the repressed amusing reading. For three ears of corn. Robbed the warehouse. Anti-Soviet activity raped and killed the teacher. Yes, mostly figurines were shown to the IVSTalin.
I do not argue about one thing. It was that they slandered. But from this no one is immune.

[kalibr]

That is, the delegates of the congress stole spikelets, robbed warehouses and raped the teachers, and then they were elected to the congress, well, we had a country, however.

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

Well, we had a country, however.

With us, not with you.

[kalibr]

Well, it was you who wrote, not me, that the congress delegates stole spikelets, robbed warehouses and raped the teachers, and then ... they sat in the Kremlin Palace and sang Hosanna to Stalin. And by the way, where did it manage to read the cases of the repressed, share the source?

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

Well, you wrote it

I wrote about my country, the USSR. I also think that the USSR is not your country. As a result of the hostile attitude towards it. Rejection of its basis. Your countryview is rf.rr. And ri.

[kalibr]

"And by the way, where did you manage to read the cases of the repressed, share the source?" What is this strange manner in the defenders of the scoop to avoid directly posed questions? Can I get an answer to this question? And whether this is my country or not, this is a completely different question. And about the congress deputies who stole spikelets ... preferably in more detail.

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

What is this strange manner in the defenders of the scoop to avoid directly posed questions?

Mr. Shpakovsky, my country is called the USSR.

Quote: kalibr

And by the way, where did it manage to read the cases of the repressed, share the source

I don’t remember the exact resource on the Internet. with communism ??

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

Are you worried about the memory of the fighters against communism ??

I am worried about honest people who have become victims of arbitrariness.

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

I am worried about honest people who have become victims of arbitrariness.

Not members of the VKPB party ??

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

Not members of the VKPB party ??

And I have a week of people for members and non-members. For me, all people are people, both good and bad. And even bad deaths do not deserve, if they are not completely finished villains. And there are really very few of them.

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

And I have a week of people for members and non-members. For me, all people are people, both good and bad.

Your constant critical remarks about the activities of the Communists. And here is such an attack, although it is natural.
If the communist activity led, as you say, to grave consequences for the Russians. And this activity was carried out by people with communist convictions, then how can they be good for you ??? if they are all with inner conviction.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

the vastness of the Internet. the exact resource is no longer remembered

This is not the source! You give me the data of the archive. And all that is on the Web - "the dog gives, the wind carries."

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

I do not argue about one thing

I see you are sitting here at the computer. And I have time. Let's talk. Dialogue in the form of Timaeus and Critias. I ask questions: you answer, Only not "yes" "no" - the VO does not accept them, but in a little more detail, a little. And without looking ahead, and without the hanged blacks in the United States and about "now". That is, only the answer to the question. Without looking ahead. Do you agree?

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

Do you agree?

Yes.
Only I do not know who Timaeus and Critias are. I did not go deep into Great Rome.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

I did not go deep into Great Rome.

This is not Rome, Oleg. And nothing that you do not know. Not critical. Then the first question is:
There were more positive or negative aspects in the Russian Empire.
Answers: there were more positives
there were more negative points
I find it difficult to answer this question

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

there were more negative points

[kalibr]

Second question: Was there more negative or positive aspects in the USSR?
The answer options are the same as for the first question.

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

there were more positive moments

[kalibr]

Third question: If there was more negativity in RI and it collapsed, why then did the USSR collapse, where there was more positive?
Variants of answer: the negative in the Republic of Ingushetia was protruding, and the negative in the USSR was hidden
unconsciousness of the population of the USSR
"got in and destroyed"
I do not have enough information to answer the question

[apro]

Your suggested answers are not correct.
Neither did they stick out the negative in ri, nor did they hide it too much in the USSR.
Attitudes towards the destruction of both ri and the USSR adopted near-government groupings in order to monetize power.

[kalibr]

Well it started. We agreed to answer yes or no. Is it really so hard to just answer?

[apro]

You can add an answer from the options provided.

[kalibr]

Okay. Although you agreed, it is ugly to change the rules on the go.
Then the fourth question: now in Russia there are more: positive, negative, equally, I find it difficult to answer

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

negative

It’s like the head of the survey conducted his survey. The questions are okay. But the answer options. From the series yes, yes, maybe no. This is an option of one answer. And there are several similar ones.

[kalibr]

That is, there is more negative now? Fine. Let's continue. And now it is like this: there was more negative in RI, and RI collapsed. In the USSR, there was more positive and it also collapsed. In today's Russia, there is more negative, but something is not falling apart, on the contrary ... it is getting stronger. I wonder how this can even be? Variants of detailed answers are welcome!

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

In today's Russia, there is more negative, but something is not falling apart, on the contrary ... it is getting stronger.

As for it grows stronger than what is said, rather the opposite.
The possibility of today's disintegration of the Russian Federation is small. Today there is no organized structure to do this. There are no resources for this. There are no intelligible ideological attitudes that would speak of a real alternative.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

today there is no organized structure to do this. there are no resources for this. there are no intelligible ideological attitudes that would speak of a real alternative.

This is what it says about the fortress of the state, Oleg. That it finally managed to secure itself. In RI Savva Morozov supplied the Bolsheviks with money, Kamo Ter-Petrosyan made ex-banks, Lenin from Zurich led ... Steel from Turukhansk was also led ... And now? That Navalny is in charge of something from prison? Or Zyuganov and Co. will put their resources on the altar of the Second Great October. And - most importantly, there is NO alternative, and there will not be. Finally...

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

This is what it says about the fortress of the state.

Yes, he says, but not everything. Strengthening the state by suppressing the population. Leads to the degradation of territories. Moreover, today's state has no task to develop. Only sucking out material resources.

Quote: kalibr

In RI, Savva Morozov supplied the Bolsheviks with money, Kamo Ter-Petrosyan made ex-banks, Lenin from Zurich led ... Steel from Turukhansk also led ...

Mr. Shpakovsky. I had a better opinion of you. The collapse is the work of completely different characters. Those who controlled the February revolution. Provided the conditions for overthrowing the empire. Those who possessed material and administrative resources to destabilize the tsarist regime.
The persons indicated by you will come later ..

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

especially since today's state does not have a task to develop

The opinion of a person who knows little at all ...

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

rather the opposite.

Then it means it will fall apart. But then you write that there are no prerequisites for this. How so? It is illogical.

[Foul skeptic]

It was so interesting to read your poll of Oleg. With questions of the level "Who will win - an elephant or a whale? You have two options for an answer - an elephant, a whale."

[kalibr]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

You used the same methods to instruct young people on a truly communist path?

As he was ordered, he instructed. Do you think self-righteousness in these matters was encouraged? Everything was signed from above. There was a magazine "Sputnik Political Agitator" ... There were instructors of the RK and OK, who said what and how. And the lecturers and instructors of the Central Committee ... As in the army, the order of the superiors was not discussed!

[Foul skeptic]

Well, you could give the material in accordance with the above. But you yourself had to answer the questions of the audience, I suppose.

[kalibr]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

But you yourself had to answer the questions of the audience, I suppose.

And all the questions of the audience were provided and the answers to them were planned. Do you think someone was asking smart questions? In my memory for 10 years there was only 1 such case when I had to think about what to answer. It was asked by an artist at a cardboard factory.
I will soon be writing an article on the work of the communists in agitation and propaganda from 1985 to 1990. There will also be typical questions from the people.

[kalibr]

Oleg, answer quickly. I'm running out of time.

[kalibr]

That's it, I'm going to work in the archive. It is a pity that you have interrupted our communication, it is a pity.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

Neither did they stick out the negative in ri, nor did they hide it too much in the USSR.

This is akin to Timaeus and Critias, Oleg!

[kalibr]

Quote: kalibr

and in the USSR they did not hide much.

It would be nice for you, Oleg, to read this book ...

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

The USSR took over the power groups

There was a state of the whole people. With the election from top to bottom, the party with honor and conscience, the KGB and party state control. And where did any groupings come from?

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

... And where did any groupings come from?

The strength of the country is in its contradictions. Weakness in its advantages. In different directions from an economic point of view is the exercise of great power by the leaders of production. With the introduction of the concept of profit in the Soviet economy. With the ability to accumulate and dispose of accumulated material resources. By deception. . due to the weakening of control over party structures.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

The strength of the country is in its contradictions. Weakness in its advantages. In different directions from an economic point of view is the exercise of great power by the leaders of production. With the introduction of the concept of profit in the Soviet economy. With the ability to accumulate and dispose of accumulated material resources. By deception. . due to the weakening of control over party structures.

And when all these shortcomings outweighed his merits ... he collapsed like RI. Where there were also certain advantages, but which outweighed the disadvantages. You see, Oleg, to what correct conclusions you finally came to. Congratulations!

[apro]

Quote: kalibr

eventually came to conclusions

The reason for the collapse of any system is the main link of the person, and the study of this object brings paradoxical conclusions.

[kalibr]

Quote: apro

paradoxical conclusions.

I recommended you a book, right? So read it ... You can start with the very first one. This 4th ... It's never too late to educate yourself.

[Looking for]

Shpakovsky. Didn't you go into the archive. ??? !!!

[kalibr]

Let's go for you, huh? And I have already returned from the archive. He's not far from me. And the most interesting thing, again I was able to make an appointment for a visit only for June 3, 4, 5, and 10. People have such a desire to study their past.

[Andrey Korotkov]

apro - your comments are very rarely understood, no offense, specify, refute,

[kalibr]

Quote: Andrey Korotkov

very rarely understood

Porridge in words - fuzzy thoughts!

[leks]

Quote: Moore

Quote: Pessimist22

left only his sycophants

Yes Yes. Toady Beria (Soviet atomic project, state reserves and much more), toady Molotov (international relations), toady Ustinov (defense industry). Sneakers Zhukov, Shaposhnikov, etc. Thanks to these stupid sycophants, the war was won.

As a result, why did IV Stalin fail to determine his receiver from these persons or was he going to live forever?
Where were all these faces when Khrushchev took power into his hands, mind you, none of them rock the boat in defense of Stalin, even say a word.

[Pessimist22]

So the people did not show discontent, the masses said hey, hey! And they began to live in a new way, without knocking on each other.

[Ros 56]

To understand those events, it is necessary to very carefully study and analyze the activities of Khrushchev, starting with his work at a mine in the Donbass and until his removal from power in the first half of the sixties. I think a lot of interesting things will come to light.

[kalibr]

Quote: Ros 56

it is necessary to very carefully study and analyze the activities of Khrushchev, starting with his work at a mine in the Donbass and up to his very removal from power in the first half of the sixties. I think a lot of interesting things will come to light.

Everything has already been studied and found out.

[Ros 56]

Shitty apparently studied.

[kalibr]

Quote: Ros 56

Shitty apparently studied.

If you don’t know something, it doesn’t mean that others don’t know it.

[Ros 56]

There are many of you such know-it-alls, you can only hang noodles on people's ears, basically the same as Khrushchev. I'm so white and fluffy, and everyone else is to blame.

[kalibr]

Quote: Ros 56

I'm so white and fluffy

That is, you write this from the dugout of the partisan detachment "Back to the USSR"? Or does your work merge into the work of all citizens of the Russian Federation?

[kalibr]

You see, Yuri, it's never too late to admit to yourself that you don't know much. Here you are clearly interested in the era of Khrushchev, but you do not even suspect about a number of sources, moreover, available. To get you started, here are the materials that are available on the Web:
1. The main directions of the state activity of N. S. Khrushchev (1953-1964): A Historical Study. The topic of the dissertation and author's abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Eseshkin, Mikhail Mikhailovich, 2007, Moscow
2. Formation of the international image of N. S. Khrushchev: 1955-1964 Subject of the dissertation and abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Zubkov, Sergey Aleksandrovich, 2007, Moscow
3. NS Khrushchev as a political leader. The topic of the dissertation and the author's abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 23.00.02, Candidate of Political Sciences Popolzunov, Yuri Aleksandrovich. 2003, Moscow

[Ros 56]

I'll try to search the net, but the question immediately arises, who are these people? You yourself know that you can turn all these studies for and against, it all depends on their, so to speak, cleanliness and decency. To put it simply, who are they playing for?

[kalibr]

But I don't care, Yuri, who they are. It is important to me what documents they refer to, what conclusions are based on them, what facts and references again to documents support them, and what ultimately comes out. And you simply cannot "turn" the study. This is what I really know. Because ... there will be those right there who will say why you didn't use it, and where ... and where did these numbers come from. So it's not easy at all.

[parusnik]

Khrushchev, the gravedigger of Marxism-Leninism as a science, turned into dogmatism.

[silverwolf88]

“Of all the statements of the“ closed report ”that directly“ expose ”Stalin, not a single one turned out to be true.
More precisely, among all those of them that are verifiable, every single one turned out to be deceitful.
The entire "closed report" is woven entirely of this kind of fraud. "

it’s better to say about the whole report ... the large-scale betrayal that later destroyed the USSR happened ... the betrayal of the Trotskyist descendants destroyed the first country in the world of victorious socialism ... BUT I hope this is not forever ...

[depressant]

Eh, colleagues! ...
I listened to that report in full, in the eighties. Georgia was already mentally completely alien, so it broadcast the report on the radio in order to support hatred of Russia, therefore, the idea of ​​separation from the USSR. And since I was living then in Abkhazia, which was the autonomy of Georgia, I had a chance to listen. At one point, talking about the dead, Khrushchev interrupted the report and sobbed for a long time, unable to stop. And we were crying in the hall. I did not know then the story of Khrushchev's son, none of the ordinary citizens knew. And he cried for him, for his son. And sobs were heard in the hall because almost everyone had someone killed at the front or in the rear. And there were very few families in which no one died. And on this wave of universal grief, Khrushchev got an endless ovation, and everything went as it went. The consciousness of those present at the congress was broken, formatted to fit what the cynical Khrushchev needed. And he needed revenge, in which the interests of the country did not find a place for themselves. And no one then remembered that Stalin's son Yasha also died. Remember this terrible story that Stalin could blame someone - he did not!
As the leader of the state, Stalin did not allow himself to stoop to mass repressions of his entourage, the doubtfulness of many of which manifested itself during the war years. Realizing the severity of what everyone had endured, he did not dare to thoroughly cleanse the higher party and military apparatus, and now, reproaching Stalin for this, he would say, "But it should have been!" my tongue does not turn. Yes, it was necessary - I speak only with regret, without reproach ... And there would be no Khrushchev as general secretary. But the time of universal remembrance of the departed, the pain of parting forever and the overwhelming difficulties did not allow too radical and massive punitive actions, an atmosphere of optimism was needed, and Stalin, as a great leader, chose it.

[Aviator_]

Interesting neck - "top secret". Usually the sequence is as follows - chipboard, secret, owls. secret, of special importance. Perhaps there was also this degree at that time?

[BAI]

This is the most interesting of the entire article. "Strictly Secret" stamp - stamp only for party documents. For government not used. There was even a very rare "Top Secret" stamp.

[Aviator_]

Thanks for the clarification. I have never dealt with party documents. Interestingly, in the EP archive they also use such a neck?

[Doliva63]

Quote: BAI

This is the most interesting of the entire article. "Strictly Secret" stamp - stamp only for party documents. For government not used. There was even a very rare "Top Secret" stamp.

In the USSR, it was neither highly secret nor highly secret. The highest tolerance is of particular importance. No need to invent.

[evgen1221]

And in fact, the cult of the personality of one person, with his unlimited power, is a complete evil for the system. After all, it is not a fact that the next one will be as smart and wise, he may well be a complete insignificance, BUT he will be deified only because. With this message, Khrushchev apparently debunked the cult. But it didn't work out clearly, we always rush to extremes.

[Undecim]

However, in Poland and Yugoslavia, and through them "in transit" to the West, the document arrived in advance. The local politicians had to be informed of Moscow's abandonment of Stalinist policies. Many excerpts from the report were published in the West immediately after Khrushchev's speech, so that there would be no more doubts about the course for de-Stalinization.
The author Chichkin, to put it mildly, is lying. Nobody sent the "document" anywhere in advance, and the story of how the theses of the speech got to Reuters, and the whole speech - from Poland to Israel, has long been described.
Why compose another fable, so that the sketch was a rake?

[north 2]

A completely different fate would await the USSR if Stalin had time to appoint his successor. And Stalin saw then the energetic Panteleimon Ponomarenko as his successor. Already in 1953, Ponomarenko was supposed to become the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR. I happened to read that even the signatures of many members of the Politburo were under the document on the appointment of Ponomarenko to the Chairpersons of the USSR Council of Ministers. Therefore, after Stalin's death, Khrushchev immediately took up Ponomarenko and the former leader of the Belorussian SSR, the former leader of the entire partisan movement in the Second World War, first appointed only the Minister of Culture, and then I did send it as an ambassador somewhere, either to India, or to Nepal, I don’t remember exactly. And the post of secretary of the Central Committee, Ponomarenko, was deprived of after Stalin's death for several days. Ponomarenko was Stalin's favorite, especially for his titanic work and excellent abilities in organizing the partisan movement.
And Ponomarenko superbly led the pre-war Belarus. By the way, similar to
Ponomarenko later became the leader of the Byelorussian SSR the one who was led by Ponomarenko during the Second World War. Peter Masherov. But while Khrushchev was in power, the favorite of all Belarusians, and all Slavs, Masherov was not appointed to the leadership of the BSSR. Well, then, under Brezhnev, they got rid of Masherov altogether. But what, after all, the BSSR was the only one who coped without subsidies from the Russian SSR. Although there were neither such fertile lands as in Ukraine, nor such natural resources as in Kazakhstan, nor oil as in Azerbaijan, nor gas as in Turkmenistan, nor white gold-cotton as Uzbekistan in Belarus. So the "sleeping" Khrushchevites were afraid of Masherov under Brezhnev. And, please, a car accident. The Lithuanian and Latvian SSRs have the same lands and conditions and natural resources as in the Byelorussian SSR led by Ponomarenko or Masherov, but the Lithuanian and Latvian SSR give the RFSSR up to 30% of subsidies, although the BSSR can do without subsidies.
These are the Stalinist heirs to power that Khrushchev was afraid of and after his
those who shit on Stalin in Brezhnev's time, shit under Gorbachev and Yeltsin and in the face of the fifth column of liberals, they shit today ...

[depressant]

That's right, colleague Sever2. I remember everyone was talking not about the accident with Masherov, but about the murder of Masherov. No one doubted! And at the household level, they were not afraid to speak about it out loud, the anger was great.

[Aviator_]

About 10 years ago, in the internet, a retired GBShnik told how such "accidental" car accidents are made. In short, the essence is this - if the one who needs to be eliminated is driving alone, without accompanying cars (and Masherov often drove this way), then a car looms in front of him for a long time, not allowing himself to be overtaken, but when an oncoming car appears in front, the leader slows down, inviting to overtake on the oncoming lane, and there is already head-on.

[Kushka]

It was not so with Masherov. The traffic police were walking ahead.
The speed was great. Therefore, the traffic police went far
forward. After her, a huge
truck (was in the fields on trials) By the limousine
bumper - under a hundred kg. - knocked out the front truck
bridge and turned the entire front end. Chances to survive
there was no.

[tatra]

Khrushchev, unlike the enemies of the communists who seized the USSR, was not an enemy of the USSR and the Soviet people, but he had the same quality of mentality as they all had - inadequately high self-esteem, as a result of a huge inferiority complex, because of which they at the expense of slandering others, insults, humiliation of others, maniacal criticism of how others worked and fought, they try to portray others as bad in order to present themselves better than others.

[BAI]

Khrushchev, unlike the enemies of the communists who seized the USSR, was not an enemy of the USSR and the Soviet people

Irina, you are fond of. Are the enemies of the communists and the enemies of the USSR different people? And still third enemies appeared - the enemies of the Soviet people. So who's worse?

[Reptiloid]

Quote: BAI

Khrushchev, unlike the enemies of the communists who seized the USSR, was not an enemy of the USSR and the Soviet people

Irina, you are fond of. Are the enemies of the communists and the enemies of the USSR different people? And still third enemies appeared - the enemies of the Soviet people. So who's worse?

Below this comment, above it, there are her conflicting statements. Such contradictions and ignorance of theory only confuse and spoil everything.

[ee2100]

There is not a single perfect system of government. There have always been and will be dissatisfied and offended, who will seize power and everything that was done by previous generations will go to hell.
Humiliated Khrushchev, not finished off the Trotskyists, revisionists, having seized power, took revenge on their offenders.
A person cannot be remade, no matter how anyone says.
Now opportunists are joining the party hoping to get a "warm" seat. And this applies not only to the Russian Federation.
A person who has decided to associate himself with politics is unprincipled and unprincipled. He is ready for any compromise.
And today is confirmation of this. Democracy in the West, driven to the point of absurdity, the uncertainty after Putin's departure does not add optimism.
It is unlikely that we will see any new form of government.

[Free wind]

The delegates to the congress, in fact, are all front-line soldiers, and no one actually was outraged. Everyone remembered Yagoda and Yezhov. Everyone has a question as to how these enemies made their way into the entourage of Comrade Stalin himself. Tukhachevsky is a vile enemy, but he was at the very top. All front-line soldiers hated Mekhlis, that's really kamisar kamisarov. after 42, Stalin was probably afraid to send him somewhere. It seems to me for whom the rope was crying. Delov, of course, did this man, but after all, Stalin kept him, although he did not give him any special rewards.

[tatra]

Unfortunately, this is the whole centuries-old history of Russia / USSR, States on the territory of the former USSR. The environment often betrays the leaders of the State. Suffice it to recall the poor fellow Nicholas II with his "circle of treason, cowardice and deceit."

[apro]

Quote: tatra

Suffice it to recall the poor fellow Nicholas II with his "circle of treason, cowardice and deceit"

If this is your informed opinion, it clarifies a lot.

[tatra]

I am a realist, unlike the enemies of the Communists living in their Through the Looking Glass.

[apro]

Yes, really a poor fellow. And not a responsible manager. Who, by his decisions, destroyed his state. Suffered nothing.

[leks]

Quote: Pessimist22

So the people did not show discontent, the masses said hey, hey! And they began to live in a new way, without knocking on each other.

To be honest, it is worth admitting that the people were not aware of this whole struggle for power after the death of Stalin I.V.
"The party said it is NECESSARY, the Komsomol answered IS."

[dgonni]

Neighing like a horse!
The mattresses had a report recording 3-5 hours after the presentation!
And yet it was a message of reconciliation!

[iouris]

Mao was right: it was "Soviet revisionism."

[Consul]

Lies in transit. On the 65th anniversary of Khrushchev's "unclassified" report

Lies are still being poured on Stalin. It's time to close the tap of lies.

[kalibr]

Quote: Consul

It's time to close the tap of lies.

Try it ... In fact, not in words in VO.

[kalibr]

Quote: depressant

And he needed revenge, in which the interests of the country did not find a place for themselves.

So he was a normal person, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! Not a fanatic! Normal, because it is said: "I will repay me for repudiation!" (Apostle Paul to the Romans) For it is said, "Have mercy, and you will be spared!" ... And people who, for the sake of principle, sacrifice their loved ones are simply moral ...! There is nothing higher than blood relationship! The interests of the country are empty pretentious words. Today it is there, tomorrow it is not. But family and revenge for the shed blood of your family is sacred, yes, this is something worth working for. Think of Edmond Dantes ...

[Victor Tsenin]

That's what is interesting, reading a thin red book, I caught the idea that with such leaders the Union has 30 years left, 30 years have passed, 1993 has come, when I asked what was happening, my grandfather replied - bad uncles shoot good ones. Mao is a prophet not only in his own country, I want to say.

[kalibr]

Victor! When I was a lecturer of the RK KPSS, an instructor of the Central Committee came to our Regional Committee. In 1985. He spoke about the revealed contradictions of socialism, that the most difficult year would be 1995 - 2 pensioners, 1 working. But 10 years seemed like ... a lot. Like, the party will figure out what to do. And she came up with: changed the general to the particular and everyone immediately began to work better! And the problem was removed!

[Victor Tsenin]

With all due respect, I did not understand a little who began to work better and what problem was removed?

[kalibr]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

With all due respect, I did not understand a little who began to work better and what problem was removed?

The people, the population of the country STARTED WORKING BETTER, the problem of WORKING DEFICIENCY was removed. Although there was only one worker left for two retirees, he began to work for himself and for those two guys.

[Victor Tsenin]

So I understood you correctly. The Russian government and employers disagree with the thesis that there is no shortage of personnel in the entire spectrum of the economy. The nuance with pensioners has not gone anywhere, because the population is aging, demography is happily directed to a certain place, the decline in only 2020> half a million citizens according to the official "always optimistic" statistics.

The problem should have been removed with reforms a la China, but the inventors in the person of Gorbachert and the half-rotted Communist Party of the Soviet Union came up with, as you say, not at all what was required. We are still reaping the fruits of these great brainstorming sessions.

[kalibr]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

The problem should have been removed with reforms a la China, but the inventors in the person of Gorbachert and the half-rotted Communist Party of the Soviet Union came up with, as you say, not at all what was required. We are still reaping the fruits of these great brainstorming sessions.

Exactly! Marxism ate all their brains ...

[Victor Tsenin]

Marxism, when properly studied, is very good, you know, imperishable Capital is still relevant now, here it is the lack of intelligence, imagination and conscience of those very people who made such fatal decisions, thanks to which our total losses are quite comparable to the Second World War.

[kalibr]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

Marxism, when properly studied, is very good, you know, imperishable Capital is still relevant now,

Canceled his mobile phones, artificial intelligence, "Pareto's law" and PR

[Victor Tsenin]

Well, no, there were no mobile then, there is no AI now, this is a monstrous betrayal, Strobe Telbot writes about this without embellishment. I don’t want to get personal, but your generation is to blame, where were the conventional "you" when the orgy came?

[kalibr]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

where were the conventional "you" when the orgy came?

Money was earned so that the family lived well. And big politics to us, little people, did not care. And besides, personally, I was not afraid of any troubles. I was sure that I would not be the last among the Tuaregs either. And so it turned out.

[Victor Tsenin]

Family in the first place, but personally, my conscience does not allow me to express such beliefs and justify the collapse and robbery of the Tuareg with such insinuations. Without negativity, you have a fancy syllable and intellect, but thinking has a flaw, in the sense that you can cook and be useful (rays of good) or just cook (rob). However, it is in your hands to explain everything correctly to the offspring / subordinates / colleagues, you are aware that you can, without straining)

[kalibr]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

be useful (rays of good)

Personally, I am only benefiting .. This is the only thing I do constantly. In the village he lectured to milkmaids about the role of the party in communist construction. I almost choked on ammonia!

[Valeriy A. Proskournin]

here is the mentioned book in Russian:
Ferr Grover. Anti-Stalinist meanness
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/7Q8x/tgujw8Rrg

[Alimzhan Juraev]

“Khrushchev is the only politician in the history of mankind who has managed to declare war on the dead.
But the funniest thing is not even this, but the fact that Khrushchev lost this war! "Winston Churchill

[Alimzhan Juraev]

“After 1953, nationalists and careerists, bribe-takers came to power in the USSR. Covered from the Kremlin.
When the time comes, they will throw off their masks, throw away their membership cards and openly rule their counties like feudal lords and serf-owners .. "
Mao Zedong "New China" Beijing, 1964 # 12

[Alimzhan Juraev]

There is no person in this world who hates communism more than me. However, there is no other person in this world whom I would respect more than Joseph Stalin. Winston Churchill

[Alimzhan Juraev]

"I walk around this world with greater courage and hope, when I realize that I am in friendly and close relations with this great man (Stalin), whose fame has spread not only throughout Russia, but throughout the world."
W. Churchill,

[Alimzhan Juraev]

“Stalin never broke his word given to me. He was an outstanding personality. Stalin possessed a deep logical and meaningful wisdom, devoid of any panic. He was an unsurpassed master in difficult times to get out of the most hopeless situation. He accepted Russia with a plow, and left it equipped with atomic weapons. " Winston Churchill

[Alimzhan Juraev]

Communism under Stalin won the applause and admiration of all Western nations. It was communism under Stalin that gave us examples of patriotism equal to the best in the annals of history. Communism under Stalin raised the best generals in the world. Persecution of Christianity? This is not true. There is no religious persecution. The doors of the Church are open. Racial Persecution of Minorities? Absolutely not. Jews live like everyone else. Political repression? Of course. But now it is clear that those who were shot would have betrayed Russia to its German enemies.
Lord Beaverbrook, 1942

[Alimzhan Juraev]

Stalin spoke in Tehran as a person who has the right to demand an account. Without revealing the Russian plans to the other two participants in the conference, he made sure that they presented their plans to him and made amendments to them in accordance with his requirements. Roosevelt joined him in rejecting Churchill's idea of ​​a broad offensive by Western military forces through Italy, Yugoslavia and Greece to Vienna, Prague and Budapest. On the other hand, the Americans, in agreement with the Soviets, rejected, despite the insistence of the British, the proposal to consider at the conference political issues related to Central Europe, and especially the question of Poland, where the Russian armies were about to enter.
General Charles de Gaulle.

“Stalin had tremendous authority, and not only in Russia. He knew how to "tame" his enemies, not panic when he lost and not enjoy victories. And he had more victories than defeats. Stalin's Russia is not the old Russia that perished with the monarchy. But the Stalinist state without successors worthy of Stalin is doomed "General Charles de Gaulle

“Stalin is not a thing of the past. Stalin disappeared into the future, ”- General Charles de Gaulle.

[Alimzhan Juraev]

Under the leadership of Marshal Joseph Stalin, the Russian people showed such an example of love for the homeland, firmness of spirit and self-sacrifice, which the world has not yet known. After the war, our country will always be happy to maintain good-neighborliness and sincere friendship with Russia, whose people, saving themselves, are helping to save the whole world from the Nazi threat.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd President of the United States, July 1943.

In simple terms, I got along well with Marshal Stalin. This person combines a huge, unyielding will and a healthy sense of humor; I think the soul and heart of Russia has its true representative in it. I believe that we will continue to get along very well with him and with the entire Russian people.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd President of the United States, (After a personal meeting at the Tehran Conference in 1943._

[Alimzhan Juraev]

Speech by the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexy before the memorial service for I.V. Stalin, said in the Patriarchal Cathedral ...
The Great Leader of our people, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, was gone.
The great, moral, social power was abolished: the power in which our people felt their own power, which he guided in his creative works and enterprises, which he consoled for many years. There is no region where the deep gaze of the great Leader does not penetrate. People of science were amazed at his deep scientific knowledge in the most diverse fields, his brilliant scientific generalizations; the military - his military genius; people of all kinds of labor invariably received powerful support and valuable guidance from him. As a man of genius, in every business he discovered what was invisible and inaccessible to the ordinary mind.
About his intense cares and exploits during the Great Patriotic War, about his brilliant leadership of military operations, which gave us victory over a powerful enemy and in general over fascism; His multifaceted, immense daily work on managing, on managing state affairs was widely and convincingly discussed in the press, and especially at the last farewell today, on the day of his funeral, his closest co-workers. His name, as a champion of world peace, and his glorious deeds will live forever.
We, having gathered for a prayer for him, cannot pass by the silence of his always benevolent, compassionate attitude to our church needs. Not a single question that we addressed to him was rejected by him; he satisfied all our requests. And a lot of good and useful, thanks to its high authority, has been done for our Church by our Government.
The memory of him is unforgettable for us, and our Russian Orthodox Church, mourning his departure from us, escorts him to the last journey, “the path of all the earth”, with fervent prayer.
In these sad days for us from all sides of our Fatherland from bishops, clergy and believers, and from abroad from the Heads and representatives of the Churches, both Orthodox and heterodox, I receive many telegrams in which prayers for him are reported and expressed condolences to us on the occasion of this sad loss for us.
We prayed for him when the news came of his serious illness. And now that he is gone, we pray for the peace of his immortal soul.
Yesterday, our special delegation was composed of His Eminence Metropolitan Nicholas; the representative of the episcopate, clergy and believers of Siberia, Archbishop Palladius; the representative of the episcopate, clergy and believers of Ukraine, Archbishop Nikon and Protopresbyter Fr. Nicholas, laid a wreath at his tomb and bowed on behalf of the Russian Orthodox Church to his dear ashes.
Prayer, filled with Christian love, reaches God. We believe that our prayer for the deceased will be heard by the Lord. And to our beloved and unforgettable Joseph Vissarionovich, we prayerfully, with deep, ardent love proclaim eternal memory. source: Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate. 1953, no. 4. C.3

[Alimzhan Juraev]

Either Russia will become a country of the Soviets, or it will be a colony of Western countries "J.V. Stalin
newspaper "Pravda" 05.06.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX

[Alimzhan Juraev]

The Duma is a full-time parliament. It will only have a decisive voice in word, but in reality it will have an advisory vote, for the upper chamber and the government, armed to the teeth, will stand over it as censors. I.V. Stalin March 8, 1906

[Alimzhan Juraev]

“The country has just reached a certain stage. The whole path after Stalin was not so much difficult as somewhere wrong. " Irina Antonova
For 59 years she headed the Pushkin Museum - first in the rank of its director, and then the president. The material was published in the publication "Interlocutor" No. 47-2020 under the title "The last interview of Irina Antonova: Russia is moving blindly."

[Alimzhan Juraev]

“Unlike Hitler, he possessed incredible patience, like no other leader of democratic countries. Stalin was ready in a minute to engage in a scrupulous study of the balance of forces. (...) he firmly and decisively defended Soviet national interests, without burdening the burden of hypocritical (...) morality or personal affections, a true monster in matters of foreign policy, Stalin, however, was an eminently realist: patient, shrewd and unyielding - the Richelieu of his time. "
Henry Kissinger.

[Alimzhan Juraev]

In 1991, at a Soviet-American symposium, when our "democrats" began to scream about a "Japanese economic miracle," the Japanese billionaire Heroshi Terawama gave them an excellent "slap in the face":




“You are not talking about the main thing, about your leading role in the world. In 1939, you Russians were smart, and we Japanese were fools. In the 1949 year, you became even smarter, and we were fools so far. And in the 1955 year we got smarter, and you turned into five-year-olds. Our entire economic system is almost completely copied from yours, with the only difference being that we have capitalism, private producers, and we have never achieved more than 15% growth, but you, with public ownership of the means of production, have reached 30% or more. All of our firms have your slogans of the Stalin era. ”

[ivan2022]

I tried to find the word "motive" in the article or in the comments. And I did not find it.
Apparently nobody is interested in the motives of Khrushchev's actions. Although any sane person should first of all look for motives, reasons, and only then give assessments. How to explain the absolute lack of interest in the causes of the "Khrushchev thaw"?
Most likely kindergarten psychology of seemingly adults; "These did it because they wanted it so" or "Khrushch made his thaw because he did not like Stalin" - and no problem, everyone understands ... there are bad smart uncles and there are good, but stupid uncles. From this "is - went" the whole history of the great country.
Immediately comes the phrase of Catherine's General H. Minich; "Russia is ruled directly by God, otherwise it is impossible to explain how it exists at all." Apparently, Minich, more than two centuries ago, also pondered the question of the motives of the behavior of our blessed, but to the point of disbelief in a strange society.