Military Review

Advantages not available to Hunters-B. What "surprises" will the Thunder UAV provide to the enemy?

47

Having carried out in the second half of 2020 a unique full-scale test of "digital" interception of heat-contrast and radio-contrast air targets of a simulated enemy with the use of flight training modifications (UZR-73/74 and RVV-SD) of air-to-air missiles of small and medium / large range R-73RMD-2 and RVV-SD, the armament control system (SUV) of the experimental prototype of the S-70 Okhotnik-B strike-reconnaissance UAV finally dispelled any doubts of experts and informed observers of VO regarding the possibility of aggregation and functioning in a single network-centric networks with on-board radars, OLS and means of open source / electronic reconnaissance of low-signature Su-57 fighters.


This conclusion is not surprising at all.

Indeed, starting from the information about the architecture of the avionics of both vehicles, partially (albeit superficially) published by domestic military-technical portals, it is quite easy to assume that this "digital" (conditional) interception was carried out thanks to the formation of the so-called " tracking file "(with the corresponding coordinates of the targets of the simulated enemy, tracked either by the N57 Belka radar or the OLS-036M), and then its further issuance to the S-50-N multi-band on-board communication system and transmission to the Okhotnik-B SUV by means of a protected a radio channel for the exchange of tactical information of the K-DlI type (in the frequency range from 111 to 960 MHz).

Thus, the pre-production copies of the promising shock-reconnaissance drones of the C-70 line have confirmed the ability to conduct air battles at medium distances of 20-80 km, as well as long-range air battles (80-100 km or more) with tactical aviation NATO air forces in the "unmanned slave" mode for targeting the Su-57 and other radar / optical-electronic reconnaissance means, minimizing the likelihood of the latter entering the range of the long-range air combat missiles AIM-120C-7 / D and MBDA "Meteor".

What "trump cards" will the promising stealth UAV "Thunder" provide to the Aerospace Forces of Russia?


Meanwhile, familiarization with the layout and design features of another promising strike UAV, announced as part of the exposition of the group of military-industrial companies "Kronshtadt" within the framework of the International military-technical forum "Army-2020", gave us reason to believe that in a number of parameters a new the multifunctional unmanned platform will not only match, but also significantly surpass the S-70 Okhotnik-B strike-reconnaissance UAVs.

We are talking about the advanced multipurpose attack drone "Thunder", which embodied the layout of the similar American and British "unmanned slaves" XQ-58A "Valkyrie" and LANCA ("Lightweight Afordable Novel Combat Aircraft"), as well as the most modern element base of avionics presented by the promising a multi-mode PFAR / AFAR radar with a high level of noise immunity, sensors of the irradiation warning system / executive electronic intelligence (SPO / RTR), as well as a radio station of a network-centric network for exchanging information about tactical air and surface situations.

By means of the latter, "Thunders" can be aggregated into a single network-centric network with "outfits" of multipurpose breakthrough drones of air defense / electronic warfare "Molniya" and C-108 / C-111-N radio stations of Su-35S and Su-57 fighters.

Having a more compact airframe with a fuselage length of 13,8 m and a wingspan of 10 m (versus 14 and 19 m, respectively, for the S-70 Okhotnik-B), approximately 2 times smaller midsection area, as well as an angular triangular lower fuselage generatrix (in conjunction with the widespread use of composite radio-absorbing materials and coatings in the design), the Thunder UAV will be able to boast of a noticeably smaller effective reflecting surface (0,07–0,1 sq. m versus 0,2–0,3 sq. m at C -70 "Okhotnik-B", respectively) in the front hemisphere, at irradiation angles of ± 30 degrees in the elevation and azimuth planes.

It is also worth noting that with these irradiation angles, a similar image intensifier tube for drones of the Thunder family will be observed in the rear hemisphere, which will be facilitated by the presence of a hexagonal flat nozzle block and an inclined two-fin tail vertical tail with a camber angle of about 80 degrees.

Targets with such an EPR are detected: by means of the AN / APG-77 airborne AFAR-radars of F-22A fighters at a distance of no more than 112-120 km, AN / APG-79 AFAR radars of the F / A-18E / F carrier-based fighters - of order 55– 65 km, multifunctional PFAR-radar target designation / illumination AN / MPQ-53/65 of Patriot PAC-2 / 3MSE anti-aircraft missile / anti-missile systems - about 60-65 km.

This distance will be quite sufficient both for the advance launch of the RVV-SD / "Product 180" air combat missiles from the in-fuselage weapon compartments for target designation either from passive RTR means, or from the N035 Irbis-E and N036 Belka radars, and for covert access to 120-kilometer launch lines of tactical missiles with gliding "equipment" 9-А-7759 "Thunder-1", which are a modification of multipurpose tactical missiles of the Kh-38MTE / MAE family.

They will be able to boast promising "Thunders" and a small infrared signature, which is due to the presence of flat nozzle "cuffs" of the "beaver tail" type with additional cooling circuits, in which hot products of aviation kerosene combustion will be mixed with the incoming stream of atmospheric air entering through additional air ducts, built-in into the internal circuits of the air intakes of the "Thunder" UAV.

Thus, the probability of Gromov's direction finding (in the medium-long-wave infrared ranges) at distances of more than 50-70 km by means of DAS distributed aperture optoelectronic systems (F-35A / B / C fighters) and Pirate IRST (fighters of the "Typhoon" family) will be minimized.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 16 March 2021 04: 38
    +8
    Advanced solutions are not a novelty for Russia, the matter lies behind the element base.
    1. Profiler
      Profiler 16 March 2021 06: 26
      +8
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Advanced solutions are not a novelty for Russia, the matter lies behind the element base.

      That's just it ... Damn good "Thunder", in the way it is written.
      But when will we see him in the series? How will it look by that time against the background of analogs being developed, for example, in the USA?

      Boasting before the army?
      1. El Chuvachino
        El Chuvachino 16 March 2021 10: 47
        -6
        When it becomes necessary, then they will see him in the series. You are doing demagoguery.
        1. nickname7
          nickname7 17 March 2021 02: 52
          +2
          You do demagoguery

          This is how the article describes the BLP, send complaints to the author.
          Further in the article, they write about some surprises for the enemy, and what surprises if "Thunder" does not exist, not counting the layout.
          The layout is apparently going to scare the enemy.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 16 March 2021 12: 46
        +4
        "Thunder," as written, is damn good.
        and forgot about the "ravines" !? There are a lot of things "piled up" to a heap and Lightning, and Drying with Thunders, plus 120 km. the launch lines of all kinds of URs ... and all to the terry network center !!!
  2. Nazar
    Nazar 16 March 2021 04: 56
    +7
    What is it about? Projects for the distant future? Of all that is written in the article, there is only ONE (!) Serial SU-57. "Hunter" is in the testing stage and will obviously not go into production soon, and Thunder generally exists so far only in the form of a plywood model. request
  3. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 16 March 2021 05: 56
    -1
    Damantsev was paid to advertise "thunder"?
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 16 March 2021 08: 33
      -11%
      Why is that? The fact that the Hunter is going nowhere is obvious. The future belongs to the Thunder-type UAV.
      1. Kart
        Kart 17 March 2021 09: 35
        +2
        When did it become obvious to you? When did he appear in Russia?
        In normal countries, everything is understandably good and necessary.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 17 March 2021 10: 10
          +3
          Quote: Carte
          When did it become obvious to you? When did he appear in Russia?
          In normal countries, everything is understandably good and necessary.


          It became obvious to everyone who has a head on their shoulders.

          The same Americans and Europeans, using such an aerodynamic scheme, released their first UAVs more than 20 years ago.
          They have already experienced everything and ...
          Refused to use such an aerodynamic scheme in the UAV of the battlefield.

          Refused.
          For there are a lot of shortcomings and contradictions.

          We must be able to use someone else's experience before we spend our hundreds of middiards on the already understandable "path to nowhere."
    2. Toucan
      Toucan 16 March 2021 11: 24
      +4
      No, he writes out of "love for art." By and large, it doesn't matter to him: what to write about, and how much it fits in with reality. Graphomania is cruel and merciless ... wassat
  4. Bez 310
    Bez 310 16 March 2021 07: 34
    +1
    Again fairy tales?
    I'm tired!
    1. Dread
      Dread 16 March 2021 13: 39
      -1
      Quote: Bez 310
      Again fairy tales?
      I'm tired!

      Bez 310 - and what are the fairy tales?
      Bez 310 - do you have little knowledge in terms of calculating the detection range and the like? Judging by your comments on VO. Therefore, it is better to read and learn to count. The author of the article has made significant progress in this, at least in this article! Although the difference in the data is small, there is.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 16 March 2021 13: 42
        +5
        Quote: Dread
        Bez 310 - and what are the fairy tales?

        There is no "Thunder" UAV, there is only a model.
        Therefore, everything that is told in relation to
        this "UAV" is a fairy tale.
        Quote: Dread
        Bez 310 - do you have no knowledge in terms of calculating the detection range and the like?

        Well, where did I get such knowledge?
        Especially in the field of "the like" ...
        1. Dread
          Dread 16 March 2021 14: 37
          -2
          Quote: Bez 310
          There is no "Thunder" UAV, there is only a model.
          Therefore, everything that is told about this "UAV" is a fairy tale.

          Yesterday, many were talking nonsense about the F-15EX, which is not in service with the United States. Which has a weak radar, compared to the N035 "Irbis", weak RRV-BD AIM-120 (with a range of D = 180 km), compared to the R-37M
          (with a range of D = 300 km), and so on. Large enough image intensifier ... Doesn't that remind you of your answer? Conversation about development also includes actions in the future tense. However, many in the VO often confuse the future with the present when it comes to foreign-made weapons. According to your comments - in your profile, there is no talk of love for Russian-made technology, only neglect.
          It's my opinion.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 16 March 2021 14: 40
            -5
            Quote: Dread
            Yesterday, many were talking nonsense

            Poor thing, read and endured, but did not understand anything laughing
            Quote: Dread
            F-15EX, which is not in service with the United States

            All yesterday's article was about the fact that he "entered service" lol
            1. Dread
              Dread 16 March 2021 14: 53
              -3
              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              Poor thing, read and endured, but did not understand anything

              Uneducated, you are unable to explain what you regularly post from the Internet. And with your knowledge in the field of air defense systems, you have shown your complete illiteracy. You are not even able to refute what I indicated above in my commentary about the F-15EX. Learn materiel ...
              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              All yesterday's article was about the fact that he "entered service"

              OgnennyiKotik - don't write lies!
              He entered only for tests, completely lied.
              The first F-15EX fighter was received by the US Air Force on March 10: the plane was delivered to Eglin Air Force Base (Florida) from the Boeing plant in St. Louis. Soon, the military will begin flight tests of the vehicle.
          2. Bez 310
            Bez 310 16 March 2021 15: 41
            +2
            Quote: Dread
            Yesterday, many were talking nonsense ...

            Some people still cannot stop today.
            It was about the fact that there is no Thunder UAV, but you
            here you are telling me about some F-15EX ...
            Stop it, stop!
            1. Dread
              Dread 16 March 2021 15: 47
              -3
              Quote: Bez 310
              Some people still cannot stop today.

              Bez 310 - I have written everything for you above. Have a problem with the Russian language? Some are you talking about yourself?
      2. Titus_2
        Titus_2 17 March 2021 00: 20
        +1
        I agree with you Damantsev has grown up straight ... well, I guessed the author from the title, and not after a few lines like the previous article.
  5. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 16 March 2021 09: 42
    -3
    Damantsev's next wet fantasies on the topic "if only, if only" about something that still does not exist, seasoned with a bunch of fancy terms and names.
  6. kill the fascist
    kill the fascist 16 March 2021 10: 20
    +2
    I understand correctly that "Hunter" is already flying, but "Thunder" exists only in a model made of plywood?
  7. Professor
    Professor 16 March 2021 11: 25
    +12
    Targets with such an EPR are detected: by means of the AN / APG-77 airborne AFAR-radars of F-22A fighters at a distance of no more than 112-120 km, AN / APG-79 AFAR radars of the F / A-18E / F carrier-based fighters - of order 55– 65 km, multifunctional PFAR-radar target designation / illumination AN / MPQ-53/65 of Patriot PAC-2 / 3MSE anti-aircraft missile / anti-missile systems - about 60-65 km.

    I would like to supplement the author. The SK 8P863 electrical conversion unit of the SK 1P8 cable machine No. 863 by means of the SK OTR 8A61 or 8K11 control machine allows reducing the RCS by 3 tenths of a point, while the chemical warhead of the 140-mm RS MS-14 confidently captures 8F115 (light warhead for 8K64 ICBMs or IRBMs 8K65) if used with 8U38 (RPU-14 rocket launcher for firing 140-mm RS M-14).
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 16 March 2021 12: 46
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      I would like to supplement the author. The SK 8P863 electrical conversion unit of the SK 1P8 cable machine No. 863 by means of the SK OTR 8A61 or 8K11 control machine allows reducing the RCS by 3 tenths of a point, while the chemical warhead of the 140-mm RS MS-14 confidently captures 8F115 (light warhead for 8K64 ICBMs or IRBMs 8K65) if used with 8U38 (RPU-14 rocket launcher for firing 140-mm RS M-14).

      lol good
      Oleg, you usually don’t read this author’s nonsense in principle. What's wrong with you?
      1. Professor
        Professor 16 March 2021 15: 28
        +4
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        Quote: Professor
        I would like to supplement the author. The SK 8P863 electrical conversion unit of the SK 1P8 cable machine No. 863 by means of the SK OTR 8A61 or 8K11 control machine allows reducing the RCS by 3 tenths of a point, while the chemical warhead of the 140-mm RS MS-14 confidently captures 8F115 (light warhead for 8K64 ICBMs or IRBMs 8K65) if used with 8U38 (RPU-14 rocket launcher for firing 140-mm RS M-14).

        lol good
        Oleg, you usually don’t read this author’s nonsense in principle. What's wrong with you?

        I haven't read it. I chose a proposal and "corrected" it. In general, I have a dictionary of abbreviations at hand. I'll do the author in battle. wink
        Hello to my husband. drinks
    2. Titus_2
      Titus_2 17 March 2021 00: 43
      +3
      Ay thanks ... 5 + ... Eugene fits any opus, almost ..
  8. Intruder
    Intruder 16 March 2021 12: 33
    0
    support file
    maybe an escort profile, or, in extreme cases, a "profile" if it's a digital system !?
  9. Intruder
    Intruder 16 March 2021 12: 42
    +2
    by means of a secure radio channel for the exchange of tactical information of the K-DLI type (in the frequency range from 960 to 1215 MHz).
    something the range is a little low, although the high output power on the transmitting path of the transmitter cannot be obtained on the scale of avionics on this drone
    Featuring a more compact glider with a fuselage length of 13,8 m and a wingspan of 10 m
    then it follows ... request , from an equally interesting statement, about:
    for a stealth exit at 120-kilometer launch lines of tactical missiles with gliding "equipment" 9-А-7759 "Thunder-1"
    interesting picture, how will all this be managed !? wink and all the more support -
    a unified network-centric network with "outfits" of multipurpose breakthrough drones of air defense / electronic warfare "Molniya" and C-108 / C-111-N radio stations of Su-35S and Su-57 fighters.
    ! ??? fellow
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 March 2021 12: 53
      0
      It is especially interesting to look at the capabilities of the S-108 onboard communications system:
      Information exchange system terminal:
      Frequency range, MHz - 960 ... 1215;
      Frequency bandwidth, MHz - 255;
      The number of frequency jumps in 1 s - 78125;
      Emission time at one frequency, ms. - 6,4;
      Bandwidth, Kbit / s not less - 25;
      Transmitter power, W. - 200;
      Noise protection coefficient, dB / W. - 15,5;
      Relay mode - up to 16 steps;
      Availability of coding - Reed-Solomon code;
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 16 March 2021 13: 19
        +2
        Especially, the use of coding on the Reed-Solomon code will greatly amuse the US NSA, with their array of computing clusters, in the Echelon GRID networks !!!
        The US NSA is the primary operator of the Echelon global interception system. Echelon has an extensive infrastructure including ground tracking stations located around the world. Almost all world information flows are monitored.
        The study of the possibilities of gaining access to the semantics of encoded information messages at the present time of active information warfare both in the field of technology and in politics has become the next challenge and one of the urgent and demanded tasks of our time.
        In the overwhelming majority of codes, the encoding and decoding of messages (information) is implemented on a strict mathematical basis of finite extended Galois fields. Working with elements of such fields differs from those generally accepted in arithmetic and requires writing special procedures for manipulating field elements when using computational tools.
        1. seyben57
          seyben57 11 May 2021 22: 08
          0
          Missed. Instead of making jokes, try reading the materiel. Reed-Solomon codes are not connected with cryptography in any way. For cryptographic protection of communication, separate devices are used; you will not find their description on the Internet.
  10. Voenmeh
    Voenmeh 16 March 2021 14: 46
    +5
    Again they beat with presentations, not real products. Under the USSR, it was the other way around - first they will do it, and then they will tell, or even not tell.
  11. Tavrik
    Tavrik 16 March 2021 15: 00
    +5
    "Network-centric" is powerful. Almost like "directional direction" or "flying plane".
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 March 2021 20: 40
      +1
      The "network-centric network" is strong
      strongly, in a terminal, such as: С-108, possibly even with a cheap TNC - (Terminal Node Controller) with multiple access in the channel, on the standard - AX.25, at a speed of at least 25 kbps ...!?winked
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 17 March 2021 12: 04
        +1
        Wow! Finally, the ancient AX-25 has been introduced.
        In general, who makes these C-108 terminals?
  12. Alexey Zigalov
    Alexey Zigalov 16 March 2021 16: 29
    +2
    Voenmeh well done !!! Become a fake and wishlist. In the photo, the Hunter always flies in front or from the side he is controlled from the ground from the bunker, so the Su-57 is attached to it so safer. Is this a faithful wingman ???? The same noodles Thunder.
  13. Basarev
    Basarev 16 March 2021 16: 59
    0
    Eh, if he could also carry an anti-ship missile ...
  14. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 March 2021 17: 49
    +1
    Targets with such an EPR are detected: by means of the AN / APG-77 airborne AFAR-radars of F-22A fighters at a distance of no more than 112-120 km, AN / APG-79 AFAR radars of the F / A-18E / F carrier-based fighters - of order 55– 65 km, multifunctional PFAR-radar target designation / illumination AN / MPQ-53/65 of Patriot PAC-2 / 3MSE anti-aircraft missile / anti-missile systems - about 60-65 km.
    I smashed all the brains into pieces! All the gyrus braided! And the Kanatchikov authorities are injecting us with a second injection ...
  15. nnz226
    nnz226 16 March 2021 19: 03
    -1
    We need to quickly take into service and more! The situation is heating up so that 1941 does not repeat itself: they adopted a lot of new equipment, but it turned out to be little and did not know how to manage it, and then the evacuation and a year passed under the sign of the bombing of our infantry with "pieces" and the breakthrough of the defense with tank wedges ...
  16. MrFox
    MrFox 16 March 2021 21: 42
    +2
    Transferred a file from one system to another. Well, also a result
  17. chicalo
    chicalo 18 March 2021 06: 44
    0
    We are all under the cap (continents, islands, peninsulas) of the Ancient Ones. As long as THEY allow us to live.
  18. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 19 March 2021 16: 10
    +1
    That's when they launch the series, after all the tests, "Thunder", that's when we will discuss.
  19. Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 21 March 2021 18: 42
    0
    Quote: The "digital" (conditional) interception was carried out thanks to the formation of the so-called "tracking file" in the Su-57 armament control system - this indicates the inability of the S-70 drones to act independently. And whether the UAV can operate autonomously is not indicated.
  20. Sevastiec
    Sevastiec 22 March 2021 10: 30
    -1
    But I'm wondering: the "Thunder" UAV is described as less "glittering". But was it counted with outboard weapons, or without? The Hunter has missiles in its inner compartments.
  21. vin605na
    vin605na 27 March 2021 21: 01
    0
    Guys, do you think that you can talk about something serious, even the word "stupid people" is a certificate of honor for you Popiz ...... those are further idiots, you can hardly pull on full-fledged fools Ava! Go for it, clowns!
  22. seyben57
    seyben57 11 May 2021 21: 57
    0
    Someone, tell the author that, using abstruse terms incomprehensible to anyone and indicating all the decryptions of products, he does not seem smarter. A channel of the K-Dli type, a "beaver tail", "executive" radio-technical reconnaissance — what is this in general?

    with the corresponding coordinates of the targets of the imaginary enemy, tracked by either the N036 Belka radar or the OLS-50M


    Instead of scouring the Internet in search of cool words, it would be better to find a source more authoritative Wikipedia. Half a minute of searching in Google is enough to find that the Su-57 is equipped with the 101KS optical-electronic system (Atoll). What can we say about the confusion in indices and factual errors. You still write about weapons on the site, try to match.
  23. Kettle13
    Kettle13 12 May 2021 15: 00
    0
    Mutual espionage) and no one canceled the betrayal. Therefore, we have them with us. So we will snatch from each other and develop ourselves and enrich each other with certain technologies. Do not turn up your nose, neither they nor us who are cooler.