Military Review

Torpedo disaster of Russia

80

Article "Anti-torpedo catastrophe of the Russian fleet" caused a violent reaction, including in the professional environment. A question from a prominent Russian specialist (on "related topics") to the author:


"Is this all true?"

Of course.

Moreover, the article contains only those facts that have not just public links, but in the most "sensitive issues" links to sources permitted for publication by the relevant authorities.

That is, the simply "lethal" facts set out in the article are just the "tip of the iceberg".

This is an anomaly on the scale of the entire Armed Forces, where the Navy is the most disastrous in terms of rearmament. And in the Navy itself - the whole topic of marine underwater weapons, where the military-technical lag from the current level reaches half a century (!).
Taking into account the acuteness of the issues and the specifics of the problem, it is necessary to write about it relying on open and public documents, but with the implementation of their comprehensive deep analysis.

Of the “fresh” publications worthy of a “deep dissection”, it is especially worth noting the article by Yu.V. Novikov (head of the military-technical cooperation department of the Concern "Gidropribor") "Military-technical cooperation of the State Scientific Center of JSC" Concern "MPO-Gidropribor" with foreign countries ".

It was written (the style was slightly changed) in 2014 as part of a sharp "torpedo discussion" on publications in the "Military-Industrial Courier":

I think it is worth identifying the main problems of modern domestic torpedoism, with "some explanation of the situation" ...

1. Lack of modern scientific and technical groundwork. Here "Lomonos" played a negative role, which began to be "officially" shoved since about 2010 - "the development of super torpedoes of the 21st century with fantastic performance characteristics in a fantastically short time."

Moreover, this was "promised" by an organization that has failed all the topics over the past couple of decades and has serially produced equipment that has been "altered" from the American early 60s of the last century. The actual goal of "Lomonos" is to "devour" all "Torpedo money" for the coming years.

2. For this, the "crushing" began "Physics" (with the cowardly compromise of the "Region") - that is, the model considered by the Anti-Submarine Weapons Directorate of the Navy in the 2000s as the base torpedo of the Navy, which had the highest performance characteristics of all domestic, a huge modernization stock, and confirmed its performance characteristics (yes, it's hard, with "Blood") on state tests back in 2007 (!).

Prices for the products themselves soared, and most importantly for operation (with the existing ones - the modernization of "Physics" and its normal development for navy impossible due to the wild cost of shooting).

3. Due to the termination of the modernization of "Physics" many years ago, the antique "Kant" was launched. "Questions" on it are given above. (If we take the real, then this "balalaika" actually did not pass the tests. Those that were - this is their imitation and falsification). Further, the modernization of "Physics" was "resumed". But in a form in which not only it will not be, but also further serial production will become impossible. Calling a spade a spade is a deliberate sabotage.

4. Under these conditions, UPV was forced to order outdated USETs to Dagdizel, especially since Dagdizel began a serious initiative R&D on a new product, which went very well.

As a result, we have:

- a scam with "Lomonos" (despite the fact that it is clear to all sane specialists that the deadlines will be disrupted, and most importantly, there will be indecency at the end);

- the serial production nevertheless, despite all the intrigues of the "Physics" launched in the series, after a while will become impossible;

- serial production of antique USET-80 is no longer possible;

- completion of tests (for which it is necessary to manufacture materiel - that is, money) of a new product of "Dagdizel" is blocked, accordingly - without the completion of tests there will be no series.

All.

And this is done by the "hydra" so that the fleet, which has already been placed on all fours with torpedoes, "squeezes its nose" and "closes its eyes." And crawled to them on all fours "give at least something." After that, the "hydra" will solemnly foist on him the "Kant" who did not pass the tests, and the lies about "Lomonos". Moreover, the fleet will be made guilty for all this. And he will be forced to be silent!

Something has changed since then.

"Physicist-1" was launched into a large series and put into service. The sabotage with the modernization of "Physics" was stopped, and its more or less decent deep modernization ("Case") began. Stopped "Lomonos". He successfully completed the tests and entered the Ichthyosaurus series.

Success?

Is that small.

At what cost it was given to all participants - a separate conversation. And in a number of cases with details worthy of the pen of Agatha Christie.

However, when considering the issues of high-tech weapons, comparison with the enemy is very important. Yes, the worst weapon in some cases can be successfully fought and won. However, here it is necessary that there be at least a “minimum threshold level of its effectiveness”. In order to use it successfully by other means (tactics, military cunning). If this “minimum level of effectiveness” is not there, then the weapon is nothing more than “firewood”.

And with our torpedo weapons, in relation to the ammunition of the fleet, the situation is largely exactly the same - "torpedo firewood".

Speaking about the topic of naval underwater weapons, it will be very useful to recall the only public discussion that took place at the Army-2015 forum, with the participation of key industry and navy specialists. More details about this - “Russia's naval underwater weapons today and tomorrow. Will the breakthrough come from the "torpedo crisis?"

The author was directly related to the events related to the IGO and the development of the IGO Concept, since since 2007 he worked closely on this topic with Admiral G.A. Suchkov, Admiral of the Russian Defense Minister.

Taking into account the critical situation with the IGO of the Navy, Admiral Suchkov, in 2007 a memo was submitted to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. Without touching upon the issue of Serdyukov's numerous mistakes (including in the part of the clumsy "reforming" of the command and control bodies of the RF Armed Forces), in that situation he behaved like a normal defense minister - give the Concept ("business plan") - "there will be funding for it."

However, the development and approval of the IGO Concept was then thwarted. This was due, first of all, to the intrigues of certain individuals and organizations, given that the decisions planned by the Anti-Submarine Weapons Directorate (UPV) of the Navy (in particular, on the Fizik torpedo) were fundamentally at odds with their financial interests.

It was written in 2015 ...

Five and a half years have passed. The term for which it was possible to carry out development work (R&D) on a promising topic. In other words, to solve the main part of the problems and really provide the fleet with effective and reliable torpedoes.

What actually happened?

Torpedo "firewood" of the Navy


The topic of ancient and obsolete (even at the time of their adoption in service in 1980) USET-80 torpedoes in the Boreyev ammunition has been raised several times. However, this is a question that needs to be raised harshly and publicly until it is resolved. The Navy itself, completely following the lead of the industry, apparently is not in a position to independently solve this problem.

Torpedo disaster of Russia
APKR project "Borey": loading torpedo "firewood" USET-80, they are also on the torpedo deck.

And the key problem here is not even the low transport characteristics of the USET-80 torpedo, but the extremely low noise immunity of both variants of its homing system (CCH): both "Waterfall" and "Keramika".

At first, USET-80 had a SSN "Waterfall" (the so-called "five"), later replaced (after a criminal case and a big scandal with "Keramika" - the so-called "ten").

Something about these circumstances:

The head of the torpedo weapon exploitation department of the 28th Central Research Institute of the Navy L. Bozin recalled:

“The commander of the 3rd generation submarine formation, Admiral Tomko, sent the boats into combat with a heavy feeling ...

Knowing that torpedoes are not aimed at the target, when performing a combat exercise, he positioned the shooting boat and the target in such a way that it was impossible to miss.

But the torpedo still did not see the target ... "

Very interesting here is the "look at the emerging problem" of the industry ("Gidropribor"), which, in fact, "got it done in full", but is very "concerned" with the "honor of the fleet":

A similar situation is described in the memoirs of an employee of the Gidropribor Research Institute, who participated in the development:

“It was 1986. The Northern Fleet has been firing USET-80 practical torpedoes for five years.

However, in the submarine mode, the results of these firing began to alarming: maybe the sailors are poorly mastering this torpedo or the torpedo is unstably guided in the conditions of shallow northern ranges.

After repeated batisfere tests on real targets, it was established that the SSN torpedoes USET-80 in the conditions of the North landfills did not provide the required response distance according to the technical specification.

The honor of the fleet remained at the height, and the Central Research Institute Gidropribor took another two years to put on the torpedo USET-80 SSN, adapted, among other things, to the conditions of the North. ”

USET-80K caliber 534 mm, 1989 ... new SSN "Keramika" ... pleased with their successes ... homing devices completing their cycle of full-scale tests of torpedo "Kolibri" (product 294, caliber 324 mm, 1973) with SSN reproduced on domestic elemental base ...

This SSN - "Ceramics" - has broken all records of longevity. There is practically no torpedo left where this SSN was not installed as an anti-submarine SSN during modernization. "

Taking into account the fact that this SSN "Gidropribor" "tore" (and still "fights" in the series!) From an American torpedo, the development of the late 50s (Mk46 mod.1, 1961), as they say, comments superfluous!

Sharp posing of questions by the author of the article in 2010 (from the article "Marine underwater weapons: problems and opportunities" Part 1., Part 2.) caused a "definite reaction" of "Gidropribor" - article "An example of unfounded criticism":

Discussing the SSV "Waterfall" (amplitude equal-signal), M. Klimov drew attention to the insufficient range of action on submarines, which took place in the shallow areas of our northern ranges.

But he either forgot or did not know that a similar property in shallow water is inherent in all western CLOs. Unfortunately, the same picture was observed in our country as a result of an increase in the levels of the boundary reverberation interference under these conditions and, accordingly, an increase in the triggering threshold of the CCH due to the receiving acoustic beams deployed in the vertical plane.

In the temperate and deep-water areas of the North, Black, Japanese and other seas, the range of the "Waterfall" SSN fully corresponded to the requirements of the TZ.


Over time, the "Waterfall" SSN was replaced by a later development - the "Ceramics" phase SSN, which has high noise immunity. Yes, one of the first SSN models of the American MK46 torpedo served as a prototype for the "Keramika".

Ну и что?

SSN MK46 was not only deciphered by us and transferred to the domestic element base, but also supplemented with a number of electronic units of our design. And, in particular, technical solutions to protect against GPA funds, which were not available in the prototype at all.


The answer to such "creative" views followed. And devastating - article "Marine Underwater Weapons-2: Arguments and Facts".

My opponents declare that the "Waterfall" CLS meets the technical specifications in temperate and deep-water areas. "

However, it is not.

It all depends on the conditions of the shooting. Even in deep-water areas, under a number of conditions, there was no need to talk about the compliance of the Waterfall CLS with the technical specifications ...

The reason for the difference between the results of samples and real work in the fleet is well known - greenhouse test conditions.

The reference of my opponents to the fact that a number of western torpedoes also had problems with aiming at targets in shallow water is untenable.

Of course, they had problems, but their level and complexity could not be compared with the failure that we got with the SSN "Waterfall".

The reason for this is that Western CLOs had a number of effective methods of protection against reverberation interference (reflections from the surface, volumetric irregularities, and especially the bottom), which were absent in the “Waterfall” CLO, and their signals were more adapted to work in jamming conditions.

It should be noted that the author's acquaintance with USET-80 and "Waterfall" was not at all theoretical. And in personal communication with the authors of the article "An Example of Unjustified Criticism", these authors simply had nothing to cover. As for Keramika:

A number of limitations of the design of the "original sample" did not allow for a significant increase in the performance characteristics of "Keramika" and bring them in line with the modern requirements at that time.

So, the author's point of view is that the result of work on the development of the CLS should be a serial torpedo mastered in the fleet, confirming its performance characteristics when firing in real conditions of use.

Figuratively speaking, this is "a look at the situation from the torpedo compartment and the central post of the submarine."

My opponents, apparently, consider a large amount of R&D and performance of firing, carried out in obviously ideal conditions, to be the “result” ...

In addition, one cannot fail to note another excellent statement by the representatives of Gidropribor:

As for the current level of our developments in comparison with the West, then, according to the General Director of OJSC Concern MPO - Gidropribor V.A. Osipova,

“... we lagged behind for one simple reason: those ROCs that were started in the 80s should have been completed in the 90s, which would have allowed us to at least reach parity.

But due to the collapse of the USSR, which led to the disruption of the existing cooperation, and weak funding, we are reaching this level only now, more than 10 years late. "

So, what began in the 80s, "Gidropribor" is trying to finish "just now." And solemnly "hand over" to the fleet. However, for the aforementioned SSN it still looks "decent" (from the point of view of Gidropribor specialists). Still, "some thirty years"! But the chief designer of the engine of this "very strongly" proposed to the fleet of the torpedo died in 1969. Never mind, it was recently put into series production at Gidropribor again (de facto having signed for the inability to create a modern engine).

It should be noted that the title of this topic has an “English version of reading”, which comprehensively characterizes the entire “bottom” of this OCD.
In details - "Ichthyosaurus" and others. Electric torpedoes - new and old. "

From the author's statement to the Main Military Prosecutor's Office (No. OGR-12224 of 20.07.2017):

... for ROC "Kant" (modernization of product 2503):

1. No tests have ever been carried out to check the real noise immunity ... - with the simultaneous presence of the target and hydroacoustic countermeasures in the observation zone of the CLS, modern, ... operating in the normal mode.

2. The single-use battery ... has never passed real tests for charging (start-up) ... in accordance with the technical specifications.

3. The new practical battery of the product did not pass the safety requirements (tests) in the Navy, it has the letter 01 of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and there are still numerous failures in the control and protection system. The unsatisfactory operation of the control and protection system is a prerequisite for an explosion and fire of a powerful power battery on the torpedo deck.

4. The Kant II product has never been tested in conjunction with a combat battery, while separate batteries for the power and instrument circuit were used for testing (which cannot be provided for a combat battery).

This raises a "wonderful question":

"But what about the Physicist?"

And with him, despite his formally high performance characteristics (confirmed on state tests), so far not a single prize of the Commander-in-Chief "for some reason has happened."

Moreover, at the time of the author's statement in the fall of 2015 to the Main Military Prosecutor's Office for Physics and Case, the Physicist torpedoes were last aimed at real submarine targets only on Gosy in 2007 (this was “somewhat corrected”, but only later 2015)!

That is, the fleet was supplied with obviously unusable ammunition. And this is not "someone gave out a military secret", and purely technical reasons for the deliberate destruction of this torpedo - up to deliberate sabotage.

Examples?

Please.

According to the formal requirement of the military acceptance of the State Scientific and Production Enterprise "Region" (and absolutely inadequate), the filling of the antenna was replaced. In other words, the "state" torpedo successfully passed with one fill, and went into production with a completely different one. And experts immediately warned about the consequences of this ...

Or, for example, the deliberate disruption of the extended tests (RI) "Physics" personally by the chief of military acceptance of the "Region", who deleted from the list published on the website of state purchases, the work of "Region", without which it was simply impossible to carry out these RIs. As a result, they still had to be carried out, but in the ways in which questions arise: where did those who were supposed to “watch” look?

However, the main problem of "Physics" was named back in the article of 2014 in the "Military-Industrial Courier" "Pitfalls of Severodvinsk":

Attention is also drawn to the extremely high cost of firing torpedoes "Fizik-1" (especially for work in the north from "Severodvinsk" - more than eight million rubles). Actually such a cost "kills" the "Physicist-1" torpedo, excluding its effective modernization and normal development in the fleet, due to the prohibitive cost of testing and combat training. These fantastic prices appeared after 2009, when the Gidropribor concern was appointed the sole supplier of Physics.

After that "suddenly" the cost of the product itself soared, and most importantly - the shot. Prices need to be reviewed. After firing torpedoes should be re-prepared in the navy with the participation of industry representatives, but under the supervision of naval specialists. In addition, it is necessary to restore the practice of one hundred percent zeroing (shooting) of all fired thermal torpedoes. This will give statistics, reliability, and confident mastering of new weapons.

After working out all coursework tasks, it is necessary to conduct ice tests similar to those of the American ICEX with firing of new torpedoes and countermeasures.

That is, the "Physicist-1" torpedo "exists" in the Navy, is supplied by the industry, and is in ammunition. However, in a "half-choked state."

At the same time, the "so-called partners", having adopted the Mk2006 mod.48 torpedo in 7 (at about the same time as the state tests "Physicist-1"), the US Navy in 2011-2012 managed to fire more than 300 rounds of Mk48 torpedoes mod.7 Spiral 4 (4th software modification of the 7th torpedo model). This is not counting the shots of the previous "mods" Mk48 from the modifications of the latest model (mod.7 Spiral 1-3).

Mass torpedo firing is an axiom of modern torpedoism. Unfortunately, Western.

The reason for this requirement is the complex and variable environment in which torpedoes are used. The unitary breakthrough of the US Navy (that is, the adoption in service in the late 60s - early 70s of the Mk46 and Mk48 torpedoes with dramatically improved performance characteristics) was associated precisely with the need to shoot a lot to practice and master new complex homing, control and remote control systems.

In terms of its characteristics, the OTTO-2 unitary fuel was frankly mediocre and was inferior in energy to the peroxide-kerosene pair already successfully developed in the US Navy by more than 30 percent. But this fuel made it possible to significantly simplify the torpedo device, and most importantly, to sharply (by an order of magnitude) reduce the cost of a shot. This ensured massive firing, successful fine-tuning and development of new torpedoes with high performance characteristics in the US Navy.

Solutions to the problems of Physics (including the inflated cost of a shot) were reported to the management (in particular, the Acting Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Fedotenkov in the fall of 2015), caused a lot of enthusiasm and ... fierce opposition from "persons with interest" who blocked the issue.

In addition, the export of our only 53-centimeter torpedo with more or less decent performance characteristics - UGST - was de facto blocked. As a result, not a single torpedo was exported, and this is against the background of the super-successful contracts of the 90s for its predecessor. But more on that below.

Torpedo UGST (photo by Vitaly Kuzmin)

The question arises:

“And what about the Case?

Firstly, the "popular" statements of some of our media (including TASS) about the alleged "completion of tests" and "acceptance of this torpedo" have nothing to do with reality.

Real work on the "Case" (more precisely, on the main thing - her "head", "brains") began only from the end of 2015. After the author's application to the SHG. Despite the fact that there were good reasons for the "case" based on what was happening with this OCD in the period 2013–2015, everything was done to hush it up.

However, a big plus (and here a very positive role was played by the Technical Inspection of the Ministry of Defense) was already in the fact that they finally began to do what had to be done immediately (in fact, the ROC was started anew). Alas, not all.
The technical details are, of course, not for the media. However, it should be noted that the author was one of those who raised (2012–2013) the question of implementing the highest possible requirements in the Case. But on non-technical, organizational problems, he himself suggested (after a series of meetings with experts) to take a "step back" from this "maximum level of requirements." Just because there are questions and parameters, to "swing" at which without serious research and research, means - with a high probability of "flunk" OCD.

Accordingly, about any superiority of the "Case" over the Mk48 mod. 7 is not necessary to say. In terms of transport characteristics, due to our requirements for ampoule storage of fuel (similar in energy capacity), we obviously lose. On the "head" - also. Due to the failure to carry out (in fact, deliberate blocking, including on the part of the customer), the R&D works necessary for a breakthrough.

At the same time, in no way can it be considered that the "Physicist" torpedo is bad. Even despite some (small) lag in performance characteristics from the Mk48, you can successfully fight with it (including due to its very high noise immunity). And the people who make her "brains" are not just the best domestic specialists, but also sincere patriots of the country. Let me remind you that the success of the same persons on "Last" back in 1998 in the USA and Germany has not been able to repeat until now.

Here is the answer to the question:

"Case" or "Ichthyosaurus"?

"Ichthyosaurus" is already in the series. And the Navy needs it, unambiguously, in a certain (small) amount. However, both in terms of transport characteristics and in terms of "brains", "Case" is significantly superior to "Ichthyosaur". And it would be right to focus further production of Dagdizel on Case. We need an alternative, the problems of the "Gidropribrovsky" "Physics" extremely sharply raise the question of another manufacturer of the new torpedo.

From a 2017 article “Shooting at sea and bases. The newest submarines of the Russian Navy are being armed with outdated weapons and self-defense means. "

Separately, I would like to note the breakthrough groundwork for the acoustic CLS of torpedoes of the former head of the small acoustics department of AKIN D.P. Frolov, capable of increasing the effectiveness of our submarine forces by an order of magnitude. Its implementation in naval torpedoes allows even on old second-generation submarines, project 667BDR, to have equal chances in battle with the newest fourth-generation submarines "Virginia" (because the main thing in battle is weapons).

And this is quite objective. These solutions were actually tested at sea for real purposes. And the question of their introduction into the "Physicist" and "Case" torpedoes has been raised by specialists many times. However, all work on this topic was discontinued in the mid-2000s, with the transfer of ordering and control functions for R&D from the Anti-Submarine Weapons Directorate, first to the Directorate of Orders and Supply of Ships and Weapons, then to DOGOZ.

Dmitry Pavlovich is no longer with us today.

However, his scientific and technical groundwork remains, which someone really wants to destroy: from physical liquidation (documentation and materiel) to the elimination of any mention of these works.

For example, his speech at a conference at the KGSC in the fall of 2015, where he recalled some of the results of his work, simply disappeared from the conference reports. And it’s a very good question whether it’s an "accident" or "something more."

Export: and "torpedo firewood in load"!


Let's return to the article "Military-technical cooperation of SSC JSC" Concern "MPO-Gidropribor" with foreign countries ".

Section "Proposals for military-technical cooperation with foreign customers regarding the supply of mine and torpedo weapons"

2) torpedoes UETT, TE2 of various modifications ... belong to modern models.

In reality, the TE2 torpedo has:

- SSN, "reproduced on a domestic base" from an American torpedo developed at the end of the 50s;

- a battery according to an American patent of the 40s of the last century;

- the engine, the chief designer of which died in 1969;

- a telecontrol system, the level of the early 60s (which today it would be correct to call "reins").

Wow "modern sample"!

At the beginning of the XNUMXth century, on the world market of ship bottom mines, a certain interest was aroused by the proposals of JSC KMPO Gidropribor for the supply of an instrumentation module (APM) for the modernization of bottom mines of the UDM-E and DM type.


The question of this "rudiment" of the 60s of the last century has already been dealt with in the article “What's wrong with the 12700 project's newest PMK?”

However, it is worth adding to this the "reaction of foreign customers":

Regarding the interest of the Indian side in sea bottom mines, it should be noted that in 2010-2012. an international competition was announced for organizing joint production in India. The Concern's proposals were rejected.

... In terms of sea bottom mines, the PRC did not show interest in the proposals of KMPO Gidropribor.

It should be noted that the first customer of APM, having received this development, did not swear. And just in a couple of years I made myself modern sea mines. Himself. Against the background of which, what Gidropribor is demonstrating today is just antique junk.

Participation in the military-technical cooperation assumes the constant maintenance of export samples of equipment at a modern scientific and technical level.

For this purpose, JSC "Concern" MPO - Gidropribor "carries out constant measures to improve scientific, technical and industrial cooperation. In the Russian Federation, these include:

- Development of an electronic control device B-107 for torpedo weapons and its serial production since 2016 to replace the electromechanical control device B-27, supplied by JSC NPO Kiev Automation Plant.

- Organization of serial production of DP-31UN type birotative electric motors.

- Development and production of lithium-ion batteries for practical torpedoes TE2.

- Constant updating of technical documentation in order to use modern domestic element base.

Well, you can't publicly “take off your pants” like that. That is, the "modern" (in quotation marks) level of "Gidropribor" is the launch of junk into a series and the "correction of technical documentation" for the "use of a modern element base", "ripped off" from the American development of the late 50s.

On mass failures of lithium-ion batteries - described in the article already mentioned in the text “Ichthyosaurus "and others. Electric torpedoes - new and old».

Torpedo TE2

Note. The author first heard about the massive failures of the control and protection system of this battery in the office of Admiral Suchkov back in 2012. It's 2021. (And in 2019 there was "Losharik").

UETT torpedoes have been in operation for about 15 years, which predetermines the following options for negotiating topics with the customer

- torpedo repair,
- modernization of torpedoes,
- purchase of modern TE-2 torpedoes.

Let's take a closer look at these options:

- The scope of the repair is determined by the customer's requirements and agreed with the contractor. According to its capabilities, the Concern is able to carry out repairs of any complexity, except for the repair of the “B-26” control device, which must be addressed to the manufacturer.

- AO Concern MPO Gidropribor can fulfill any modernization requirements, but It should be borne in mind that when replacing the B-26 control device with a B-107 device and when using lithium-ion batteries, in practical torpedoes, the total cost of upgrading the UETT torpedo may exceed the cost of the new TE2 torpedo.

I repeat once again, the cost of installing a new block of B-104 gyroscopes and an "innovative" lithium-ion battery (from which components - we will not ...) is more than the cost of a new TE2 torpedo! Publicly, this figure did not appear, but it is, let's say - "very, very immodest."

Some time ago, a violent reaction was caused by the price of the Ichthyosaurus torpedo. It is a pity that there was no price tag for TE2 nearby. The amazement (here it would be more correct to say another word - from the "boatswain's lexicon") society would be guaranteed.

Taking into account the antiquity and the very high cost of KMPO Gidropribor products (in fact, these "torpedo firewood" are supplied to the customer for "load" on Russian-built ships), there are problems with export, to put it mildly. Therefore, all these "firewood" are "simply obliged" to "accept and pay" for our Navy and the Ministry of Defense: both the B-107 and the lithium ion batteries that have not passed the required tests (including safety tests) (which have been stubbornly trying to push them into fleet).

There is not a single mention of UGST in the article (all export contracts are listed and supplies for them are detailed), which has long turned into an "interior for salons".

Moreover, the article itself was written at an extremely low professional level. There are a lot of mistakes that raise very bad questions about the degree of "competence" of the author in the subject of IGO and arms export. Only one example, diesel-electric submarines of project 877EKM (deliveries of the 80s, with torpedoes with mechanical spindle input of firing data) turned out to be, among other things, with "electrical input of shooting data" (sic).

It should be added to this that, despite the fact that since the summer of 2013, there is no doubt about the ability of the M15 anti-torpedo to reliably kill attacking torpedoes (based on the results of a series of tests on real targets with outstanding results), the export of this unique piece has failed. Moreover, they disrupted their equipping of submarines of the Navy (including the newest "Ash" and "Boreev", where they were supposed to be according to the project and state contract). After that, it is no longer surprising that there are no export deliveries of "Package".

Stupidity or sabotage?


And this is all in a situation where, despite a number of problems, there are all the technical possibilities to have a decent and effective naval underwater weapon. Moreover, some of our achievements (for example, anti-torpedoes), our Western "so-called partners" cannot repeat for two decades!

A logical question arises:

"What's going on?"

For example, one of the high-ranking leaders of the defense industry complex behind the scenes directly raised the issue of direct sabotage on the subject of underwater weapons and countermeasures. That is, in fact, deliberate preparation of the military defeat of the country.

Where is the fleet looking?

Ex-commander-in-chief Chirkov and Korolev are now in "fat" positions in the USC. And the list goes on.

From the article “Russia's naval underwater weapons today and tomorrow. Will the breakthrough come from the "torpedo crisis" 2015 of the year:

The question of personal responsibility.

Let me emphasize that no one in the Navy and the Ministry of Defense, or in the defense industry has bore real responsibility for what is happening.

At the same time, IGO is not “something not very important”. IGO is the most critical and disastrous area of ​​the RF AME, including extremely important for ensuring defense capability and strategic deterrence.

The basis of the latter is not "the flight range and the number of SLBM warheads", but the inevitability of a retaliatory strike, the basis of which is the combat stability of the NSNF (the most important part of which is the IGO).

Today, the country and the navy need an honest and well-grounded comprehensive target program "Marine Underwater Weapons" to overcome the acute crisis of IGOs.

Otherwise, the construction of the Russian Navy in its current form does not make sense.

Well, then there was "Arctic torpedo scandal".

Today in 2021, our boats are still virtually unarmed.
Author:
80 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Eldorado
    Eldorado 16 March 2021 09: 24
    +17
    "All our deeds will be overthrown if the fleet is wasted"
    Peter the Great
    1. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 16 March 2021 09: 37
      +32
      Thank you very much to Maxim for his caring position, even if it annoys someone on "VO"! God grant that these publications have an effect! Although, given our realities, it will not be easy.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 16 March 2021 09: 58
        +18
        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
        May God grant that these publications have an effect!

        God grant that these publications have an effect at the level of the Supreme. So that he (or someone in his place) began to understand why such a desperate situation has developed in 20 years. It has long been necessary to shake up those departments (such as Chubais's Rusnano), where there are no discoveries or inventions. It's time to kick those who spit on Soviet science and still enjoy its fruits.
        A frankly disgusting mood. After such articles, you begin to think that the topic of enemies of the people in modern Russia has not been disclosed. I'm not even talking about the enemies of the fleet, aviation, astronautics ...
        Torpedoes developed in the 60s of the last century? Maybe it's time to change the lamps, at least for transistors? wassat
        1. ANB
          ANB 16 March 2021 10: 50
          +12
          ... Maybe it's time to change the lamps, at least for transistors?

          This has been changed. Back in the early 90s. Only the era of microprocessors has long been.
        2. syndicalist
          syndicalist 17 March 2021 13: 46
          +4
          Quote: ROSS 42
          so that these publications have an effect at the level of the Supreme. So that he (or someone instead of him) begins to understand why such a desperate situation has developed in 20 years

          Are you serious or kidding? 20 years did not understand, and now suddenly "throw everything" and start?
      2. WHAT IS
        WHAT IS 16 March 2021 09: 59
        +22
        I join - Maksim Aleksandrovich is a real naval officer, not indifferent to the fate of the fleet. Patience and health to him and those serving and retired officers who do not allow the bureaucratic swamp to stagnate and finally put on the fleet. Respect is caused by such people.
        1. knn54
          knn54 16 March 2021 10: 53
          +16
          Just all around the majors, "effective managers". I can cite a lot of examples when smart officers were pushed in to please the children of parquet generals / admirals.
          Bangladesh orders the modernization of the MiGo in Belarus, because (according to the reserve officer, the son of the chief engineer of the Voronezh aircraft plant), where the clerks do not want to spit.
          1. Machito
            Machito 16 March 2021 11: 27
            +12
            Maxim, thanks for the article. In the Military Search, this will not be said. Corruption in the navy (grain positions in the USC for retired admirals), irresponsibility and impunity of the leadership are serious threats to the security and sovereignty of the Russian Federation. The author rightly raises the question of sabotage and deliberate sabotage. For this you need to shoot at the stadium on the air. But, we do not surrender ours (theirs).
            And it turns out, as in Krylov's fable:
            Once a swan poked with cancer ...
          2. ANB
            ANB 16 March 2021 11: 50
            +6
            ... Just all around the majors, "effective managers".

            This is some kind of wave has gone. This is not only the case in the navy and government agencies. But also in large private companies. And foreign too. Just quit after 13 years of work.
      3. antivirus
        antivirus 16 March 2021 13: 03
        -14%
        cut all submarines. pour everything into 10 units of AB with 100 VI each. that's the reason for building aircraft carriers.

        The Navy itself, completely following the lead of the industry, apparently is not in a position to independently solve this problem.

        - to close the schools that released such "sailor commanders"
        to train naval troops in schools of frontier troops.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 16 March 2021 15: 38
          0
          will my provocations work? will there be a fleet? or will they just fall to the trough?
        3. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 16 March 2021 18: 55
          +2
          Quote: antivirus
          to train naval troops in schools of frontier troops.
          do not waste time on trifles. Better straight away in culinary colleges ... ?! lol
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 16 March 2021 19: 00
            0
            You said - you and answer to the Moreman for the mockery.
            there are little green men. there are blue (or white) men (naval) - consumables for the greatness of the Russian state, without torpedoes and anti-torpedoes
      4. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 16 March 2021 19: 30
        +1
        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
        Thank you very much to Maxim for his caring position, even if it is annoying
        yes, do not rush "make yourself an idol" ...(!).
        He's certainly an interesting guy. Not without it... ?!... But ....
        According to Maxim in the Navy bad with almost all torpedo armament: "Physicist", "Ichthyosaurus", "Case" ... almost everything - slag (!)... Not slag only "Package" (324 mm), to "complicity in the production of which", he had a place to be involved ... (!).
        To the question to him, - "Tell me, were there any comparative tests of the Paket-NK and RBU-6000 (or Smerch)? And what exactly showed the greatest efficiency in the anti-torpedo protection of ships?". request
        Perhaps you will be lucky and you will receive the most direct answer. ?! winked
        Or maybe the answer will be without specifics ?! recourse
        but in general it is certainly not uninteresting !!
        1. timokhin-aa
          16 March 2021 21: 19
          +3
          To the question to him, - "Tell me, were there any comparative tests of the" Paket-NK "and" RBU-6000 "(or" Smerch ")?


          There are no comparative ones, but in general RBU fired at the torpedoes, the conclusion is that the tool is not suitable, the issuance of the CU for the attacking torpedo is very difficult, the shells go under the water for so long that the torpedo has time to slip under them.
    2. ramzay21
      ramzay21 17 March 2021 03: 33
      +1
      Thanks to the author for a good article.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Gardamir
    Gardamir 16 March 2021 09: 36
    +5
    here it is not necessary to look at naval construction. A topic from the category, not even economics, but ideology. Mr. Abramovich's yacht costs about 44 billion rubles, and the frigate of the Admiral Grigorovich series is 13 billion. And yachts are built faster.
    This is not sabotage. Officials are simply looking for personal gain, but patriotism is not profitable. No, they will always declare their love for Russia from the high stands. But this is the ideology. "Seek Benefits."
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 16 March 2021 09: 44
      +5
      Quote: Gardamir
      Abramovich is worth about 44 billion rubles, and the frigate of the Admiral Grigorovich series is 13 billion. And yachts are built faster.

      The project 20380 corvette costs 17 billion rubles. The frigate of project 22350 is even more expensive. And Abramovich has more than one yacht, which one? And they build yachts for Abramovich at the German shipyard Lloyd Werft, so it's faster.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 16 March 2021 13: 05
        +2
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        And Abramovich has more than one yacht, which one?

        Can you say something in essence of the commentary?
        Quote: Gardamir
        This is not sabotage. Officials are simply looking for personal gain, but patriotism is not profitable. No, they will always declare their love for Russia from the high stands. But this is the ideology. "Seek Benefits."

        This is the essence, and not the price nuances.
        But if we really rest on the price ratio, then there was an article on the VO about this.
        https://topwar-ru.turbopages.org/topwar.ru/s/148420-20-jaht-rossijskih-milliarderov-prevoshodjat-po-stoimosti-voenno-morskoj-flot.html
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 16 March 2021 15: 24
          +3
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Can you say something in essence of the commentary?

          The German shipyard Lloyd Werft built a 2010-meter expedition yacht Luna for Abramovich in 115. By 2015, Abramovich finally got off his knees and ordered a new 145-meter Solaris from the same shipyard. Photo of Solaris is attached below.
  4. Sailor
    Sailor 16 March 2021 09: 39
    +13
    Nothing has changed in our swamp! Sell ​​the country at all levels!
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 16 March 2021 09: 42
    +7
    Nothing on the topic, not mine ... and so, for the Power, it can be very offensive, in some places and at times for sure.
  6. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 March 2021 09: 51
    +6
    Well, what can I say? There is nothing! No words ... only emotions!
  7. KKND
    KKND 16 March 2021 09: 54
    +7
    I read, read, read, did not understand anything. Some kind of "Santa Barbara" from the eternal showdowns of design bureaus, manufacturers and the military. The author, if you are a specialist, then write specifically how torpedoes, counter-torpedoes, countermeasures, sonars, and so on work. Specifically and in detail from the point of view of physics, describe why our weapons are inferior to the western and not who said what when and who heard what in which smoking room. Really reading and understanding nothing is possible, describe the mechanisms of operation of the devices and not who blurted out what and who "bent" whom.
  8. jonht
    jonht 16 March 2021 09: 55
    +11
    There are no admirals in their homeland, only corruptionists ...
    Joke.
    But seriously, those who could no longer be in the Navy, and those who remained are caring for their korman.
    Perhaps V.I. Stalin was not so wrong when he dispersed the entire top of the Red Army. But isn't it too late already?
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS 16 March 2021 10: 18
      +11
      And this is an option, but this should be done not only in the naval offices, but most importantly in those where decisions on the financing of the fleet are made on a leftover basis.
  9. 9PA
    9PA 16 March 2021 09: 56
    +9
    I want to kill after reading
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 16 March 2021 10: 57
      -9
      Quote: 9PA
      I want to kill after reading

      That's why it is written. Today is an election year ... wassat Can you imagine what they will write in 2024 ?! fellow
      1. timokhin-aa
        16 March 2021 12: 46
        +10
        With such a defense, we still have to live to 2024
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 16 March 2021 13: 50
          +9
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          such a defense must still survive until 2024

          Shoigu built the main military temple, everything is under control. You are safe.
          1. timokhin-aa
            16 March 2021 13: 57
            +10
            Well, if only so.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 March 2021 18: 08
          -8
          Don't worry about Russia in 2024 and 2054 and beyond, no one will attack.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 16 March 2021 21: 22
            +6
            Quote: Vadim237
            Don't worry about Russia in 2024 and 2054 and beyond, no one will attack.

            What's the point of attacking your own raw material appendage? You just need to create the appearance of confrontation, and slowly squeeze. And you, supporting this system and this power, support the planned and measured destruction of Russia.
            1. syndicalist
              syndicalist 17 March 2021 13: 56
              +1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              What's the point of attacking your own raw material appendage?

              For those for whom we are a raw material appendage, it makes no sense to attack. But there is also one for whom we are temporarily lost northern territory.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 March 2021 15: 08
                0
                At the moment, there is no point in them either. After all, we sell them oil and gas, and invest money from the sale in their securities.
                1. syndicalist
                  syndicalist 17 March 2021 17: 04
                  0
                  You cannot approach China with European standards. Oil, gas, money - all this is secondary for the Chinese. They are now ecstatic about the resurgent greatness of the empire. Everything has already returned to them, except for the unjustly lost, as they believe, northern territories. Shijinping is clearly aiming for the role of Mao. Moreover, he will not be satisfied with the place of the "second Mao" - he will be the first and only the first. All this cannot but end with an expansion to the north. And the age of the Chinese leader does not allow us to hope that he will postpone this for a more distant future.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 17 March 2021 17: 22
                    +1
                    Quote: syndicalist
                    They are now ecstatic about the resurgent greatness of the empire

                    I agree, as with Turkey, however. I just think that it makes no sense to them YET, but in the future it is very possible. I hope not in the next one, because under this power we will not be able to oppose China with absolutely nothing. hi
  10. prior
    prior 16 March 2021 09: 59
    +12
    The catastrophe for Russia in general is already obvious, we are dying out, impoverished and degraded.
    A naval catastrophe, a torpedo catastrophe are only components of a general catastrophe.
  11. betta
    betta 16 March 2021 10: 04
    +5
    Author, what are you doing? So there are few topics for optimism, but here. If only the ending would be sweetened.
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 16 March 2021 11: 15
      +1
      The leading fleets of the world leave in service outdated torpedoes as a reserve in case of war or for weak targets, for example, transports. In Great Britain, for example, there was an old air torpedo Mk-VIII with a cruising range in the first mode of about 5 km. Accordingly, the torpedo was straight forward. In the Falklene War, a British nuclear submarine sank the Argentine cruiser Belgrano with these torpedoes.
  12. Niko
    Niko 16 March 2021 10: 32
    +5
    Irresponsibility. Personal financial interests that exceed the interests of the business. Lack of control (and no interest in the interests of the business on the part of the controlling parties). And a strong belief based on the facts that only "those who do not agree with the party's policy" are brought to justice.
  13. Niko
    Niko 16 March 2021 10: 52
    +1
    The financial interest of developers and manufacturers in the military-industrial complex is good in countries such as the United States, where there is at least some kind of competition - invented, made better, faster, cheaper than others - received an order. And with an actual monopoly, this is a reason for stagnation and corruption
    1. Darkesstcat
      Darkesstcat 16 March 2021 14: 24
      +1
      What is the competition if the top command staff after resignation leaves for the corporation?
  14. Per se.
    Per se. 16 March 2021 11: 38
    0
    Yes, the article made an impression. I remembered how, in my school years, I read in the journal "Tekhnika-Molodyozhi" (No. 12 for 1973) an article by Mikhail Chekurov "The Wooden Sword of Admiral Denitz". If the Germans had a problem because of the innovation with the proximity fuse of the G7e torpedo, which was supposed to "break the backbone" of battleships, passing under the bottom, we have a problem with lagging ...

    The author asks,
    Stupidity or sabotage?
    This is, first of all, capitalism, with which both stupidity and sabotage and outright sabotage, especially since our "partners" and masters of the world capitalist system, have a frank fad on counteracting the naval strengthening of Russia.

    What are the priorities here for our long-suffering fleet? But we have "Poseidon", which has no analogues. In principle, it is not necessary to kill the world's oceans, when "We, as martyrs, will go to paradise, and they will simply die," you can simply blow up all your nuclear power plants and nuclear warheads in general on your territory, the effect will be more effective and with less torment.

    Otherwise, you read such articles, and you hear, - "Tell the sovereign that the British do not clean their guns with bricks: even if they do not clean them here either, otherwise, God save war, they are not good for shooting".
    When will the time of fools and traitors end, and, instead of oil and gas, the army and navy will again become Russia's main allies?
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 16 March 2021 11: 40
      +6
      Quote: Per se.
      When is the time of fools

      Fools, along with roads, are braces, without them it is impossible to imagine Russia.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 16 March 2021 11: 49
        +1
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        Fools along with roads are braces
        Moreover, when one trouble is trying to fight another. Seriously, the main trouble that ruined the Union too, we were outplayed in propaganda, in the advertising gloss of the West. As a result, what the “Junkers” did not do, the “Snickers” did, we still always had a weak defense against someone else's lobby (from the tsarist times).

        The French say "cherchez la femme" (look for a woman), we need to look for where the Anglo-Saxon ears stick out, all the "rats" and "moles" in the light of day, as well as Western adepts. Then there will be order with torpedoes.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 16 March 2021 13: 09
          0
          Anglo-Saxon ears, all "rats" and "moles" in the light of day, as well as Western adepts. Then there will be order with torpedoes.

          - to restore the status of closed cities - Novgorod-Gorky and St. Petersburg-Leningrad. How can Liteiny Prospect and Aglitskaya Embankment survive without Chinese and Italian tourists?
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 16 March 2021 13: 07
      0
      and, instead of oil and gas,

      - see the beginning of the 1970s. who was in the hands of the country?
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 16 March 2021 13: 43
        +1
        Quote: antivirus
        see the beginning of the 1970s. who was in the hands of the country?
        Mr. antivirus, then the country's fleet was ocean-going, the country was a superpower. You don’t understand this, or do you also earn money with an ideological "firewall", "drown" the capitalists? So they are doing well without your "antivirus" protection.
        Liteiny Prospect and "Aglitskaya Embankment", not all of Russia, which will live without Chinese and Italian tourists, however, the point is not in them, but in those who pump billions from Russia, with dying out industries.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 March 2021 18: 20
          -6
          What kind of production in Russia is dying out - is it possible in more detail?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 16 March 2021 21: 38
            +4
            Quote: Vadim237
            What kind of production in Russia is dying out - is it possible in more detail?

            Are you blind or what? Instead of closed factories with thousands of workers, mini-shops for 20-30 jobs are being opened. Yes, automation, but for some reason this process in China is different. You constantly justify the sale of factories by the fact that our citizens work for them, but no one sells the factories to us, they refuse. (Opel and Volvo)
            You are a real traitor to Russia, Vadik, constantly licking the failed policy of the current government, although any normal (!) Person knows that constructive criticism helps to correct mistakes. You contribute to their accumulation, not understanding one simple thing - mistakes do not accumulate forever, but to a critical mass. And it has already been practically achieved. You don’t understand, or don’t want to understand that as a result of a social cataclysm, it is not the left, but the ultra-right who can come to power. And the country will split, mired in nationalism and internecine conflicts.
            .
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 March 2021 18: 18
      -7
      Tell the sovereign that the British do not clean their guns with bricks: even if they do not clean them in our country, otherwise, God save the war, they are not suitable for shooting. ”This is no longer relevant now for the measuring power of the state and the guarantee of non-aggression of the enemy and its guarantee is nuclear weapons and the commandment - "Who fires first, dies second" keeps all opponents in good shape and in place, and as for torpedo weapons, they have never been made at the level of the best Western models in Russia and will not be made.
  15. BAI
    BAI 16 March 2021 12: 55
    0
    And torpedoes, in general, are not outdated in principle? Maybe you need something like "Squall"?
    In terminology. This means: a torpedo - with a propeller, an underwater rocket - with a jet engine.
    1. timokhin-aa
      16 March 2021 14: 01
      +2
      Flurry - https://topwar.ru/175609-superkavitirujuschaja-torpeda-shikval-jeto-jeffektno-no-nejeffektivno.html

      Not obsolete.
    2. Usher
      Usher 16 March 2021 17: 42
      0
      Quote: BAI
      And torpedoes, in general, are not outdated in principle? Maybe you need something like "Squall"?
      In terminology. This means: a torpedo - with a propeller, an underwater rocket - with a jet engine.

      how can a torpedo become obsolete? I don't understand the very logic of the question? It's like an airplane can be out of date or a bicycle. People have not learned to fly quickly on anything other than an airplane, perhaps a rocket, but this is not practical. So is the torpedo, what can you offer in return for the optimal one?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 16 March 2021 18: 28
        -6
        Goes too slowly to the target - the maximum hitting distance of 90 kilometers after such an attack will immediately detect and destroy the submarine - the maximum speed and launch range will be preferable to rocket torpedoes.
      2. timokhin-aa
        16 March 2021 21: 18
        +5
        How is it deprecated? Well, old Los Angeles without a ring around the screw, if there is a supply of steam in the main condenser system, it breaks off our SET-65 in a stroke and, if necessary, will take it to interference without problems.
        But the Mk48 at a short distance of 55 knots and the CCH is such that it is physically impossible to create interference for it - its range goes too far into low frequencies.

        This is the difference.
  16. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 16 March 2021 13: 38
    0
    Question from the overland couch: How are torpedoes tested in general? It is clear - no charge. But even if without it, such a fool, at many tens of kilometers per hour, crashes into a light hull or into a submarine's wheelhouse, or into a propeller, into a steering wheel, into a casing of a bow GAS submarine or a surface ship, and what?
    1. timokhin-aa
      16 March 2021 14: 00
      +5
      They unscrew the BZO (combat charging compartment) and put it in place of a practical one, with a recorder that "writes" whether the CCH was triggered, a mallet, in order to find it later, they put a reusable battery.

      Then they shoot like a normal combat, but the target is at one depth, and the torpedo is restricted to another.
      As a result, it grabs the target, the CLS is triggered, the torpedo follows the target, but cannot hit it.

      Then she goes into shallow water, her torpedo tubes are raised.
      Anti-ship torpedoes have practical signal flares and are fired at the ship's hull.

      There are tests of torpedoes in a purely combat version - they simply shoot at a decommissioned ship and see if it works or not.
      It is possible to remove some data through the telecontrol.
      1. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 16 March 2021 16: 54
        0
        Then they shoot like a normal combat, but the target is at one depth, and the torpedo is restricted to another.

        In such a test, it is likely not to check whether the torpedo is correctly guided in depth at a real target and whether it can hit a boat maneuvering in depth. Is it the same on the other side of the ocean?
        1. timokhin-aa
          16 March 2021 21: 15
          +2
          In reality, the recorder writes commands to the torpedo actuators, the Americans also shoot.
    2. timokhin-aa
      16 March 2021 16: 24
      +2
      A clarification was sent to my last comment:

      The torpedo travels a set distance, not necessarily in shallow water. Under the conditions of the NT-1,2,3,4 exercises, they are not performed in shallow water.

      Signal flares of the tracer device for showing the trajectory of the torpedo's path. They are fired all the way, without being tied to the target ship's hull.

      NT-6 is performed along the shore. Otherwise you will not be enough ships
  17. Usher
    Usher 16 March 2021 17: 39
    -2
    In reality, the TE2 torpedo has:

    - SSN, "reproduced on a domestic base" from an American torpedo developed at the end of the 50s;

    - a battery according to an American patent of the 40s of the last century;

    - the engine, the chief designer of which died in 1969;

    - a telecontrol system, the level of the early 60s (which today it would be correct to call "reins").

    Well, Mk48 is the same. All the same.
    1. timokhin-aa
      16 March 2021 21: 14
      +3
      Yeah, only she has a head with a broadband antenna and digital data processing, a heat engine, not an electric motor, and there are little things like televoltage via fiber-optic cable, the speed is twice as high, the range is also there, etc.

      I understand that people have a writer's itch so strong sometimes that you want to blurt out at least something, but you don't need to write this even from under the itch.
      Have pity on those around you.
  18. Old26
    Old26 16 March 2021 17: 44
    +3
    The head of the torpedo weapon exploitation department of the 28th Central Research Institute of the Navy L. Bozin recalled:

    Maksim! Did they write this about Larion Mikhailovich?
    1. timokhin-aa
      18 March 2021 13: 59
      0
      I'm not Klimov, of course, but I can say yes.
  19. Aag
    Aag 16 March 2021 18: 50
    +3
    Once again, - thanks to the author for the article! (Interesting, informative, yes, - not life-affirming ..., - but, I hope, honestly !!!)
    And most importantly, in the interests of the Country (departmental interest, in the context under discussion, I count, can be left for later, if it is present ...)
    Fortitude, success, luck, finally, to Klimov!
    It would be good, in every region, department of such fighters for the cause!
    The question remains: if Maxim writes on "VO", having access to specialized, interested departments (according to his publications, to no avail), apparently, hopes for a public reaction?
    I have already asked (maybe I did not notice in the stream of comments) - how can you help?
    A "direct line with the President" is expected soon. I hope that on the eve of the elections to the State Duma, not all the questions received will be able to be ignored (they will be filtered, unambiguously) ... Maybe, once again, let's try it honestly?
    I propose (I am stunned by my naivety, - nevertheless, - let them not say later that we did not try in an amicable way): to form a list of questions to the President. Thematically, reasonably ... On various aspects of our life ... I do not hope that the editorial board of "VO" will sign ... But it will not formally be able to prevent it, subject to the laws of the Russian Federation (if the questions are posed correctly).
    Sorry, I don't see any other bloodless ways ... hi
  20. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 16 March 2021 20: 24
    +1
    terrible situation, thanks to Maxim Klimov for the bitter truth, I hope Shoigu or Putin will honor and take action
  21. dgonni
    dgonni 16 March 2021 20: 32
    +2
    For the persistence of the authors! Really respect!
    Do people fight and are even given answers? So they moved the tram with their hands. Then the engine should turn on in the form of the bureaucratic system of the Navy! They know it! Respect again!
    Although they can bury.
    It depends on the shoulder straps.
    But for the position? Lions!
  22. ritenyto
    ritenyto 16 March 2021 20: 45
    -8
    The material is propaganda nonsense. Torpedoes in general, as a class, have reached the limit of improvement in the naval forces of the leading world powers.
    1. timokhin-aa
      16 March 2021 21: 10
      +4
      But in our country they have reached the level of the USA in the 60s.
      1. mik193
        mik193 17 March 2021 13: 08
        0
        One bad thought torments me. What (or who) prevents us from acting in Chinese - stupidly copying Mk48?
        1. timokhin-aa
          18 March 2021 14: 01
          +4
          Maxim's answer:

          In fact, this was done for the Chinese in "Hydra", "Mortepla" and Gavrilin NIIP (SU on laser gyroscopes)
          The torpedo was called 211ТТ1. According to the Chinese TK, the hydrodynamic scheme was exactly a copy of the Mk48. It was delivered to China without a CCH (the Chinese made it themselves), immediately went into a large series, but the Chinese brought the torpedo FOR YOURSELF for a long time. But it worked out well (Yu-6)
          Подробности - https://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2019-03-15/10_1037_toreda.html
          And the essence of this story is that at the end of the 90s we supplied SIGNIFICANTLY MORE PERFECT TORPEDS than now !!! See transport characteristics, and according to TU, the comparison is generally lethal - 211TT1 has a multi-torpedo salvo with TU and a speed limit of 15 knots, and UGST and TE2 only 1 torpedo with TU and a maximum of 8 knots
          1. mik193
            mik193 18 March 2021 19: 52
            +1
            Thanks for the info. I didn't know anything about Chinese developments. Just go crazy! That is, our designers have been doing hell knows what for more than 20 years and just pooped on each other's heads, and the command of the Navy stupidly accepted incompetent developments ... To have a chance to adopt a really excellent torpedo and it's so mediocre ... There are no words.
          2. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 18 March 2021 20: 09
            0
            To be able to make yourself modern naval weapons, you first need to learn how to sell them to other countries, just as it happens with tanks and aircraft. At least sell an inexpensive custom-made development of such equipment for foreigners according to their terms of reference - that is, intellectual services of the design bureau and the result in the form of drawings and prototypes, and they will do the series themselves. To take, without fail, for the solution of their intractable technical problems that they themselves could not solve and successfully solve them. It's like driving a car - you need driving practice and development practice. Later, you need to practice making small batches for the market, then designing and manufacturing media available to poor coastal countries, such as boats, airplanes or small submarines. It is too difficult to break in half now and at the same time to design and manufacture them well, so it is better to be able to lead in custom design and advanced scientific and technical thought in the field of torpedoes and their carriers and gradually tighten up production.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. xomaNN
    xomaNN 16 March 2021 21: 16
    +1
    It’s sad for me to read about "marking time" by our torpedo developers. And the "technical impotence" of the engineering and technical staff of NPO Gidropribor. After all, my classmates from PF LKI are working there now. It was at the instrument-making faculty that we trained the developers and manufacturers of torpedo weapons. After 4 years of working with naval weapons, I myself began to deal with space equipment. But you always watched how things were going in our department? It turns out - BAD!
  25. K298rtm
    K298rtm 16 March 2021 23: 14
    +2
    Maxim is great. Does not leave the topic of torpedo weapons of the Navy, which is most important for Russia's security.
    The disease has been identified. The diagnosis was made. But how to treat (a rhetorical question)?
    Unfortunately, it seems that the fleet is intended for:
    - demonstration of "combat power" at parades,
    - demonstration of the flag (mainly for the natives (in a good way)),
    - heroic death without lowering the flag (in case of a real conflict with a serious enemy).
  26. mik193
    mik193 17 March 2021 12: 37
    +2
    Thanks to Maxim for the article and his caring attitude to the fleet. And this Caudle of would-be designers, effective managers and armchair admirals, mired in squabbles, squabbles, corruption, must be brought up exclusively by the Ipatyev method. And yes, they somehow forgot about the phrases "sabotage", "sabotage", "treason to the Motherland" with the corresponding verdict. The wise man said correctly: "Every misfortune has a name, surname and position."
    1. syndicalist
      syndicalist 17 March 2021 14: 04
      +1
      Quote: mik193
      The wise man said correctly: "Every trouble has a name, surname and position."

      All Russian troubles, without exception, also have a surname. And this name is "Putin".
      1. timokhin-aa
        18 March 2021 14: 00
        +2
        No, this is a very strong simplification.