Military Review

Active air defense module Rheinmetall Skyranger 30

165
Active air defense module Rheinmetall Skyranger 30

In recent years, the topic of combating small-sized air targets - high-precision weapons or unmanned aerial vehicles. Rheinmetall Air Defense offers a new prototype to meet these challenges. Developed a universal combat module Skyranger 30, suitable for the construction of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns on different chassis.


New development


The presentation of the Rheinmetall Skyranger 30 module took place on March 3 and was held online. Representatives of the developer company announced the reasons for the emergence of the new project, indicated its goals and advantages, and also published several images of a promising product.

The developers of the complex note that recent conflicts show the presence of new challenges for air defense. Western European armies, incl. The Bundeswehr, abandoned self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery and with it lost part of their combat capabilities. A recent study showed that the German army without decommissioned Gepard ZSU cannot effectively counter the UAV threat characteristic of modern conflicts. All this became the reason for the development of a new project.


The Skyranger 30 module is being developed by the Swiss branch of Rheinmetall (formerly Oerlikon Contraves). As a basis for this project, they took the old Skyranger 35 anti-aircraft system with different weapons and characteristics. Some of the existing units were replaced, and new systems were introduced. The result is a new module with improved characteristics, capable of effectively combating all current threats.

Currently, design work is underway on some of the module's components. By the middle of 2021, it is planned to conduct the first firing from an experimental KCE cannon. The fully equipped combat module will be sent for testing before the end of the year, and within a few months after that, full-fledged fire tests will begin.

After testing and fine-tuning, the development company plans to suspend the project. To save time and money, preparation for the series will begin only if the order for the modules is received. Upon signing the contract, Rheinmetall Air Defense will be ready to launch production and manufacture serial Skyranger 30s as soon as possible.

Technical features


The Skyranger 30 product is a turret with cannon armament and electronic equipment, designed for mounting on a carrier vehicle. The tower is uninhabited; operator stations are located inside the chassis. At the same time, a hatch is provided in the tower, and an operator's workplace can be installed inside. The total weight of the product is up to 2,5 tons. For comparison, the Skyranger 35 tower weighed at least 4 tons.


The module body is assembled from armor plates providing level 2 protection according to the STANAG 4569 standard. It is possible to install additional modules that increase protection up to level 4. All internal units, the gun barrel and retractable optical devices are covered with armor.

The module's main weapon is the Rheinmetall KCE 30mm automatic revolving cannon, a lightweight and modernized version of the old Oerlikon KCA product. The rate of fire is 1000 rds / min. and a range of fire up to 3 km. For the KCE cannon, a new programmer was created, installed on the muzzle. It is smaller and has improved performance. The weapon is placed on a stabilized installation with electric drives. All-round firing with elevation angles up to 85 ° is possible.

The anti-aircraft self-propelled gun must use shots of a standard size of 30x173 mm with a fragmentation projectile and a programmable fuse. The projectile has a warhead weighing 200 g and carries 160 cylindrical tungsten striking elements. Such ammunition has already been put into service and is used by German armored vehicles equipped with a Rheinmetall Mauser MK30-2 / AVM cannon. Tests and practice have confirmed the high performance of these shots.


Muzzle device with programmer

In the basic configuration, the additional armament of the module consists of only two ROSY (Rapid Obscuring System) smoke grenade launchers on the front. Block ammunition - 9 grenades. The possibility of mounting a coaxial machine gun of one model or another is declared. In addition, space is provided at the left side for a retractable launcher for two anti-aircraft missiles.

The task of detecting air targets is assigned to the small-sized Rheinmetall AMMR (AESA Multi-Mission Radar) S-band radar. It includes five small active phased array antennas. Two are mounted on the front of the turret, two more are placed on the sides and one is at the stern. The detection range of small-sized air targets reaches 20 km. At the request of the customer, it is possible to use an additional radar with suitable characteristics.

A support with an optical-electronic station FIRST (Fast InfraRed Search and Track) is installed in the aft part of the tower. Its task is to review the airspace, detect targets and issue target designation to other means of the complex. To aim the gun at the target, an OES of the TREO type is used. It has high-resolution day and night cameras and two laser rangefinders for air and ground targets.

Data from all electronic and optical means are fed to the fire control system. It provides weapon guidance to a target, data generation for a programmable fuse, etc. The operator has the opportunity to observe the operation of the automation and make adjustments. Probably, the LMS is integrated with communications that provide external target designation and work in a battery or battalion.

Possible prospects


The development company plans to test a new combat module, but mass production will be prepared only after receiving orders. There is every reason to believe that she will have to do this in the very near future. The Skyranger 30 project in its current form may be of interest to different customers, and Rheinmetall has a chance for contracts.


Tower forehead with AFAR AMMR and ROSY block

The new project offers a comprehensive solution to the urgent problem of protection against UAVs. At the same time, it is envisaged to use ready-made or advanced components capable of providing high operational and combat characteristics at a reasonable cost. In addition, the Skyranger 30 has no special carrier requirements and can be used with a wide range of chassis. All these factors expand the circle of potential buyers.

The proposed set of detection tools is of great interest. Unlike other ZSUs, the Skyranger 30 system should have an AFAR kit that provides obvious benefits. There are also optoelectronic devices that allow observation without unmasking oneself with radiation. It is very likely that the set of radars and OES is indeed capable of detecting small-sized UAVs with sufficient probability and providing accurate weapon guidance.

The Rheinmetall KCE gun and additional assets should provide ample combat capabilities. So, the programmer and the controlled fuse of a 30-mm projectile make it possible to effectively attack air and ground targets. Undermining is carried out at a minimum distance from the target, and a large number of GGE increases the likelihood of defeat. According to the developers of the project, during the tests, only one such element was able to destroy a commercial-type target drone - it pierced the body, optical device and battery, causing a fire.


Missile launcher

It should be noted that the prospects of the Skyranger 30 project depend not only on the technical features of the module itself. Interest from potential customers can be stimulated by the specifics of recent conflicts. The wars in Syria, Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh have shown what a danger UAVs of different classes pose and how important the means to combat such a threat are. Rheinmetall is presenting its new project in fact in the wake of the recent showcase events.

Near future


This year, the first tests are to be carried out, which will show the real characteristics and capabilities of individual elements of the complex. Then their integration will be completed, and next year Rheinmetall will be able to show both the fully equipped combat module and its main capabilities. In addition, you can expect certain improvements, incl. with the expansion of the range of tasks to be solved.

Obviously, the market will react to the appearance of such a combat module with at least great interest. In addition, it should be expected that in the near future other manufacturers of weapons and equipment will offer their versions of anti-aircraft systems to protect against UAVs. What place will Skyranger 30 occupy on the market and what will its struggle with competitors be - time will tell.
Author:
Photos used:
Rheinmetall Air Defense
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  1. Your stranger
    Your stranger 12 March 2021 18: 09
    -1
    Not a bad thing, the carnation sau chassis should support the weight of the module.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 12 March 2021 19: 00
      +4
      Which country are you talking about?
      1. Your stranger
        Your stranger 12 March 2021 19: 06
        -1
        carnations were made in Poland and Bulgaria,
        Plus Romania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia,
        Many Eastern European countries will be interested in
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 12 March 2021 18: 12
    -8
    Developed a universal combat module Skyranger 30, suitable for the construction of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns on different chassis.
    It is suitable, it is suitable ... and it will remain effective as it gets dirty, worn out, mechanisms, the quality of ammunition, weather conditions and the rest.
    Obviously, a burst from a cannon, cheaper than a rocket, but still ...
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 12 March 2021 18: 40
      +7
      so any weapon depends on many factors, even the thorns of the heroes' clubs fell off. laughing Only now I wonder why the striking elements are made of expensive tungsten, the drones are not armored at all, it seems that steel elements are enough. Well, or change ammunition.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 18: 43
        +7
        Quote: Free Wind
        Only now I wonder why the striking elements made of expensive tungsten,

        The video is told. Simplified to create an efficient shard cloud.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 12 March 2021 19: 16
          +4
          Not patriotic, of course, but the installation is cool, it's a pity that they won't sell us because of the sanctions.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 19: 21
            +1
            So we can do it ourselves. There is nothing supernatural there. Here is the project of the 37-mm ZSU Yenisei. Shilka won the competition.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 12 March 2021 19: 24
              +2
              Do you think Shilka can successfully shoot down drones? Why then did the Armenians in Karabakh find themselves defenseless against drones?
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 19: 40
                0
                Air defense is not a lifesaver from everything flying. It is necessary to promptly modernize it, adequately to the threats. The Armenians thought that 2016 would repeat itself, but the scenario was more difficult. Azerbaijan identified and drowned out the Armenian air defense with electronic warfare, overloaded with quantity, after the destruction of the echeloned air defense, the hunt for everything moving began. Azerbaijan outplayed tactically and technically, the Armenians were unable to wage the war actively, advancing and striking the rear of the army. Any defense, if not attacking, loses.

                As for Shilka, India and Israel modernized it quite well, quite adequately to modern threats.
                They installed modern phased array radars, which have higher performance in detecting various air targets.
                A module with television and thermal imaging cameras, as well as a laser rangefinder, appeared next to the antenna. The equipment allows you to destroy the enemy in stealth mode.
                Additional missile armament was also planned, but at the moment there are no such weapons on the machines in service.

                1. Avior
                  Avior 13 March 2021 00: 44
                  +2
                  There is no programmable detonation of shells - an important function specifically against drones.
                  1. Thomas N.
                    Thomas N. 13 March 2021 08: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: Avior
                    No programmable detonation of shells is an important function against drones.

                    Director of JSC "STC ELINS" in an interview with the magazine "National Defense" says that there is: "Another novelty is a system of programmable remote detonation of shells of calibers 23, 30 and 57 mm. "
                    https://oborona.ru/includes/periodics/exhibitions/2020/0922/114030102/print.shtml
                    23 mm - means suitable for "Shilka".
                    1. DDZ57
                      DDZ57 13 March 2021 13: 05
                      +4
                      Director of JSC "STC ELINS" in an interview with the magazine "National Defense" says that there is: "Another novelty is a system of programmable remote detonation of shells of calibers 23, 30 and 57 mm."
                      https://oborona.ru/includes/periodics/exhibitions/2020/0922/114030102/print.shtml
                      23 mm - means suitable for "Shilka".


                      About what the director of JSC "STC ELINS" says in 2020, they have been talking in ROSTEKH for the last 15-20 years, but things are still there. And ammunition with trajectory detonation (fuse without a chemical power source) for AP, including those in 20mm caliber, has long been mass-produced in the USA, Germany, South Caucasus, etc.
                    2. psiho117
                      psiho117 14 March 2021 21: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: Thomas N.
                      The director of JSC "STC ELINS" in an interview with the magazine "National Defense" says that there is: "Another novelty is a system of programmable remote detonation of shells of calibers 23

                      Let it not zvizdit, not that 23, even 30mm and we do not have a trace. Even 57mm and then not yet, only in development.
                      One 30mm projectile with dist. blasting, costs from 3000 to 5000 dollars, and this is in countries that have no problems with microelectronics and sanctions, and the production of such shells was established decades ago.
                      And then, no one there suffers from insanity, and in 25mm shells dist. undermining does not shove.
                      And then, some storyteller, declares that he has a remote detonation right up to 23mm.
                      Lies, zvizhezh, and a heinous provocation! am
                      1. Thomas N.
                        Thomas N. 15 March 2021 07: 51
                        +1
                        So Tikmenov says that "under construction", read this link.
                        Regarding remote detonation of ammunition of 25 mm caliber and less, here are just the first 3 links issued by Google:
                        https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2011/gunmissile/Thursday11790_Gloude.pdf
                        https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Programmable-air-bust-munition-PABM-developed-by-Micromechatonics-25-mm-caliber_fig11_322163500
                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airburst_round
                        Tell me about a hundred source where this cost data came from: "One 30mm projectile with distant detonation costs from $ 3000 to $ 5000"
                      2. psiho117
                        psiho117 15 March 2021 11: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Thomas N.
                        where does this cost data come from:

                        From the Internet, obviously wassat They took the cost of the contract for the supply of shells, and believed - according to the cut, it turned out that for some reason the Germans had AHEAD the most expensive, even though they bought it in rather large quantities for the Puma.
                        Regarding remote detonation of ammunition of 25 mm caliber and less
                        No i don't deny technical opportunities, and in the portfolio of most manufacturers that produce shells with dist. detonation, there are 25-27mm shells (even 20mm, in fact, there are).
                        It's just categorically ineffective, and no one in their right mind will order them.
                        It's just a technology demonstrator.
                      3. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 15 March 2021 11: 57
                        -1
                        Quote: psiho117
                        there are also 25-27mm shells (even 20mm, in fact).
                        It's just that it's totally ineffective.

                        I think it makes sense to bring the 37mm cannon back to the air defense. Its power is several times more than 30 mm, but the rate of fire can be kept the same. 57 mm is redundant and insufficient at the same time.

                        37 mm ZSU Yenisei.
                      4. psiho117
                        psiho117 15 March 2021 12: 00
                        0
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        I think it makes sense to bring the 37mm cannon back to air defense

                        Duc 37mm Soviet - this is Boforsovsky 40mm, initially. There, in the process of release, of course, differences accumulated, but in fact it is the same good old 40mm Bofors, which still remains one of the most popular calibers in the world.
          2. V.I.P.
            V.I.P. 13 March 2021 07: 52
            0
            What modern aerial targets can this "shilka" work for? The range and height of the 23mm cannons are small ...
            1. DDZ57
              DDZ57 13 March 2021 14: 56
              +1
              What modern aerial targets can this "shilka" work for?


              If the chassis has a motor resource and "adequate" costs for upgrading [weapons systems (drives, ammunition, etc.), detection, communication and navigation], "Shilka" can still be limited in scope (since it has a short firing range) to perform the air defense function of the near zone (penultimate line) of transport and stationary objects.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 12 March 2021 21: 43
          +3
          Why then did the Armenians in Karabakh find themselves defenseless against drones?
          Their hands are growing from the wrong place
      2. ROSS_51
        ROSS_51 15 March 2021 16: 38
        +1
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        So we can do it ourselves.

        Yes, for a long time we can not ... AFAR, MSA, programmable ammunition-all just talk and projects.
  • Simple
    Simple 13 March 2021 11: 30
    +2
    Quote: Free Wind
    Only now it is interesting, why are the striking elements made of expensive tungsten, the drones are not armored at all, it seems that steel elements are enough.


    Tungsten balls in comparison with steel (of the same volume) have a higher kinetic energy.
  • Klingon
    Klingon 12 March 2021 20: 39
    +1
    Does the Carapace have the same cannons or are they diamond ones? This gun has a great feature: the programmer and the corresponding ammunition. And Oerlikon have always made excellent anti-aircraft guns.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal 14 March 2021 22: 06
    -1
    The culture of servicing technology must be up to par.
    Nobody will keep the same Shell in the mud.
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 18: 13
    +4
    Direct analogue, going into service:


    Leonardo offers different weapons, the module is much lighter. For Reinmet's 4 tons, another base needs to be picked up.

    In general, for military air defense, the optimal solution is: radar, OLS, BIUS, 30 mm autocannon with guided detonation, various missiles and UAVs. All this can work not only by air, but also by land. Support combat vehicles.

    A variant from Rheinmetal on a 35 mm autocannon and a Turkish counterpart in Libya.

    1. vadim dok
      vadim dok 12 March 2021 18: 50
      +5
      Rheinmetall offers a 2,5 ton module. This previous Skyrandger 35 weighed 4 tons.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 18: 59
        -2
        Thanks for the amendment! It's still a bit too much, you can't put it on a light chassis.
        1. ROSS_51
          ROSS_51 15 March 2021 16: 48
          -1
          Quote: OgnennyiKotik
          Thanks for the amendment! It's still a bit too much, you can't put it on a light chassis.

          It looks like 500 kg will be too much for you ... you can't put on a bicycle ...
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 16 March 2021 06: 16
          0
          Combat module "Bakhcha". Weight is about 4 tons.
          Placed on the chassis of the BMP-2, BMP-3, BMD-3, BTR "Rostok" and other similar in terms of carrying capacity.
          The BMP-3 can still have additional screens and DZ (reactive armor) for an additional 4 tons.
          -------------------
          Carrying capacity, area and volume allow, therefore, can be supplied.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 12 March 2021 18: 21
    +7
    This is what Derivation does not have! The programmer on the trunk!
    Therefore, this system will be exported and successful. And the Russian army will have a defective derivation. With laser programming system. But not capable of real air defense against drones!
    And the question is that the caliber is still excellent. But the realization of the last century!
    1. Klingon
      Klingon 12 March 2021 20: 48
      +2
      Well, we do not know how to make programmers on trunks! what can you do ?? or do not consider it necessary. With the programmer, the consumption of the BC will definitely be less
      1. dgonni
        dgonni 12 March 2021 21: 22
        +4
        The question is, what about the inferiority of programming by a laser beam, the developers knew!
        But the level of electronics did not allow to cram it even into the 45th caliber!
        57 is basically ideal in terms of power and efficiency.
        But instead of working out a normal system, the developers are trying to shake off the army a priori flawed non-working system!
        And if the ballistics of the gun allows you to drive drones over 4500+ meters. That binding buries it all.
    2. Genry
      Genry 12 March 2021 21: 29
      -2
      Quote: dgonni
      And the Russian army will have a defective derivation. With laser programming system. But not capable of real air defense against drones!

      You said something indistinct.
      Does Derivation have undermining control? Laser - and what else do you want?
      1. dgonni
        dgonni 12 March 2021 21: 46
        +3
        In short! At Erlikon-Rheinmetal! The trunk is strapped programmer!
        Shot with an electrocapsule! At the exit of the projectile from the barrel, the system knows the initial velocity of EACH projectile and programs it to detonate at the desired point of the trajectory!
        In this case, the system has a separate radar as part of the battery! Which, of course, we were not told in the article. And also each vehicle has an optical guidance and tracking system!
        This is what Derivation does not have!
        Opto Vizier? Stop! Determination of the parameters of a projectile launched by a laser and subsequent programming? Nonsense!
        Over this, both the Americans and the French with the Deutsches had their brains.
        This principle does not provide stability and efficiency when shooting in bad weather conditions, smoke and fog with high humidity!
        Although I will note! The 57mm caliber is more versatile and allows drones to be driven above 4500 meters.
        With a normal programmer, you can tear the shells over the trench. And for the destruction of a typical modern drone 2x shells with a stock. Well, if you have a radar essno!
        Against kamikaze drones? Great question! For diving ammunition is not easy to shoot down. Even in spite of the energy of the projectile.
        This is where the rate of fire is needed!
        1. Genry
          Genry 12 March 2021 21: 51
          0
          Quote: dgonni
          Determination of the parameters of a projectile launched by a laser and subsequent programming? Nonsense!

          The laser is the most accurate measure of range and speed - and you say the opposite. And you don't need to program anything - just a command at the right time.
          1. Klingon
            Klingon 12 March 2021 23: 09
            +9
            Well, here's a grassroots fog or rain or something else, how will the laser projectile be programmed ??
            1. Genry
              Genry 13 March 2021 01: 52
              -1
              Quote: Klingon
              Well, here's a grassroots fog or rain or something else, how will the laser projectile be programmed ??

              10 km is not a problem. Water has areas of spectral transparency.
              And UAVs also do not fly in bad weather.
              1. Grognag
                Grognag 13 March 2021 14: 03
                0
                Yeah it was smooth on paper .....
            2. keleg
              keleg 13 March 2021 07: 26
              0
              NNZ there the laser measures the speed of the projectile when it leaves the barrel and programs the detonation.
              The same as that of the Germans, only simpler and more accurate. can be measured at a distance greater than the length of the barrel.
              https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201503291027-casm.htm
          2. Grognag
            Grognag 12 March 2021 23: 55
            -3
            Well, the fact of the matter is that if it is necessary to create a cloud of fragments by detonating several shells, then how will the teams proceed after the formation of a plasma cloud due to the detonation of the first shell, plus a radar to support this shell is needed to accurately detonate the shell
            1. Genry
              Genry 13 March 2021 02: 05
              +2
              Quote: Grognag
              Well, the point is that if you need to create a cloud of fragments by detonating several shells

              You will not create a cloud, since the times of flight of the target and the intervals of the burst of projectiles will be very different - i.e. you need to shoot at a new place on the movement of a target that approaches or flies away from the previous gap ...
              .
              Quote: Grognag
              plus, to accurately detonate the projectile, you need a radar to support this projectile

              Not a radar, but an OLS (optical LAN), which includes lasers (illumination, rangefinder). On the radar, it makes sense to move at ranges of more than 10 km.
              1. Grognag
                Grognag 13 March 2021 14: 02
                0
                How strong is it? What rate of fire does this gun have, like the t 35-85 4 rounds per minute? , what if 2 cannons or a battery are firing and all are on the same target?
            2. Thomas N.
              Thomas N. 13 March 2021 08: 59
              +1
              Quote: Grognag
              Well, the fact of the matter is that if you need to create a cloud of debris by detonating several shells, then how will the teams go after the formation of a plasma cloud due to the detonation of the first shell, plus a radar to support this shell is needed to accurately detonate the shell

              Projectile explosions cannot interfere with the transmission of commands, because the explosions are near the target, and the projectile programming takes place next to the cannon. To detonate a projectile at a given range, the radar tracking this projectile also need not... Read the above link https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201503291027-casm.htm:
              “When the projectile flies 50 meters away, the first code message is sent, after another 20 meters - the second, and so on. The projectile has a scheme for receiving and processing this information. If these messages coincide, the projectile perceives this information and a temporary detonation scheme is triggered. Thus, the projectile reaches the target and explodes at the right time ... ”, - says the designer. Those. laser programming occurs at a distance of several tens of meters from the gun.
          3. The comment was deleted.
    3. V.I.P.
      V.I.P. 13 March 2021 07: 54
      +2
      Derivation does not have a radar. What and how she will be able to detect at night during snowfall, rain, fog, smoke from fires ...
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 12 March 2021 18: 24
    -9
    Compared to Armor, there are both pros and cons. Programmable ammunition is definitely a plus, but only 2 missiles are where the Shells are at war. they would have been knocked out instantly. All destroyed Carapaces were destroyed when the missiles were reloaded or depleted. And here there are only two
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 18: 34
      +1
      With Carapace, there are completely different classes. This is a direct analogue of Tunguska, with the same tasks.
      You need to remove the guns from the Shell and increase the number of missiles, as in the arctic. It is already in the short-medium-range air defense class.

      Military air defense of the near zone on Tunguska, modernize the radar, OLS and BIUS, add the ability to work with guided detonation projectiles, it is possible to update the missiles.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 12 March 2021 19: 01
        -1
        modernize the radar, OLS and BIUS, add the ability to work with guided detonation shells, it is possible to update the missiles.
        OLS, with a 3D lidar and adaptive optics, plus it to increase the drive speed in both planes, a new BM stabilizer with individual stabilization of each barrel in the vertical plane, digital FCS / BIUS and a new package of smaller caliber missiles ... a space-based version for drones. ., "sweetie" will be in desert camouflage !?
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 12 March 2021 20: 06
          0
          With such a set, it is better to make a new car right away. Tunguska are ready-made, are in service.
          South Korea has an interesting K30 Biho complex. He won the Indian Pantsir competition. From the series, this is how the Tunguska needs to be modernized.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 13 March 2021 00: 39
            -1
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            South Korea has an interesting complex K30 Biho

            why is it interesting?
            classic zpk in a modern design.
            The shell is no match.
            Do you need modernization of old anti-missile systems in a rocket-free version?
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 13 March 2021 00: 57
            -1
            From the series, this is how Tunguska needs to be modernized.
            Well, yes, you can do this:

      2. mvg
        mvg 12 March 2021 20: 40
        0
        the ability to work with guided detonation projectiles,

        We only had programmable ammunition last year ... and then we went for testing. The troops are not coming soon. Accordingly, similar systems will appear even later, in 5-7 years.
      3. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 13 March 2021 09: 50
        -1
        30mm assault rifles would be exchanged for something larger than 37-45mm, albeit with one barrel.
      4. dgonni
        dgonni 13 March 2021 10: 34
        +1
        I agree for Tunguska. But there is one small but. Our microelectronics does not allow us to create a programmable projectile in such a caliber!
    2. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 12 March 2021 18: 38
      +2
      In the combat scenario you described, not a small number of missiles are to blame, but a small number of armored combat vehicles and poor organization of mutual cover. That is, it is easier to say that it is not necessary to have many missiles on one AFV, it is more efficient to have several AFVs protecting each other at the time of reloading.
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 12 March 2021 18: 47
        -2
        Cover, yes, in all cases did not work. But 2 missiles are generally an attack of ONE target, this is nothing at all, then they must be driven in groups of 20 in a heap, and this is already a good target for Point-y, which they will not shoot down in any way
        1. Thomas N.
          Thomas N. 13 March 2021 09: 14
          0
          Quote: Cowbra
          Cover, yes, in all cases did not work. But 2 missiles are generally an attack of ONE target, this is nothing at all, then they must be driven in groups of 20 in a heap, and this is already a good target for Point-y, which they will not shoot down in any way

          It seems that during the discussion everyone has already forgotten why this anti-aircraft gun is being proposed. artillery complex: "A recent study has shown that the German army without decommissioned ZSU Gepard can not effectively resist the threat UAV, typical for modern conflicts. "SAM for Skyranger 30 is just an option:" In addition, the port side provides space for a retractable launcher for two anti-aircraft missiles. "For self-defense from helicopters / attack aircraft, the main weapon is a 30-mm cannon.
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 13 March 2021 11: 42
            -1
            No, it's just that THEY have forgotten that the enemy will not attack the "anti-aircraft artillery complex" exclusively by UAVs, and only single ones. This means that it is not viable.
            1. Thomas N.
              Thomas N. 13 March 2021 12: 59
              +1
              Quote: Cowbra
              No, it's just that THEY have forgotten that the enemy will not attack the "anti-aircraft artillery complex" exclusively by UAVs, and only single ones. This means that it is not viable.

              Precisely because the enemy can attack not only UAVs, it is possible to include 30 missiles in the Skyranger 2 for self-defense from attack helicopters, as already mentioned above. And from a simultaneous attack not single kamikaze UAVs, especially from different directions, single The air defense complex will not protect any cannon shells with GGE and proximity detonation, or missiles, no matter how many of them there are on its installation. Therefore, any single ZAK / ZRK / ZRAK in the conditions of mass use of drones should not fight, but an air defense system should be used, which can include any vehicles (ZAK, ZRK, BMPT, BMP, BTR) armed with automatic cannons and even machine guns, under control of the general distributed control system of the tactical level, performing target distribution and target designation. For use in such an air defense system in order to protect "everyone by everyone", and not just yourself, Skyranger 30 is very viable!
              1. Cowbra
                Cowbra 13 March 2021 13: 17
                -1
                Quote: Thomas N.
                under the control of a common distributed tactical control system

                ... what role this apparatus cannot assume. Those. and so - not needed. Once again, a pair of Armor will cover each other at the very least, a pair of such in Syria will lie in the first attack. And only effective against drones from Aliexpress
                1. Thomas N.
                  Thomas N. 13 March 2021 13: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Cowbra
                  Quote: Thomas N.
                  under the control of a common distributed tactical control system

                  ... what role this apparatus cannot assume. Those. and so - not needed. Once again, a pair of Armor will cover each other at the very least, a pair of such in Syria will lie in the first attack. And only effective against drones from Aliexpress

                  What is the role of management? Of course it cannot, because it plays the role of a means of fire, and not a means of control. It is not necessary to fight in a pair - it is necessary as part of a unit that covers air defense, protection of "all by all" as already mentioned. Your option for the destruction of UAVs only with the help of missiles?
                  1. Cowbra
                    Cowbra 13 March 2021 14: 40
                    +1
                    Our option is that in real combat conditions such ZRAK will face massive attacks, in which they are helpless targets, because they are not even able to cover each other. The only area of ​​application is single attacks of kamikaze UAVs or quadcopters. Two drones from four kilometers. - guaranteed to demolish this dregs with simple bombs. Ie the system is not needed nafig. To protect the base perimeter as part of a multilayer air defense, they absolutely do not need a chassis, for example. And missiles too, there are multi-layered
    3. dgonni
      dgonni 12 March 2021 21: 51
      0
      And why waste a rocket if the barrel forms cones of fragments on the way of the drone!
      That is why the Shells were knocked out!
      The cannons do not hit the meok drone at typical ranges. And missiles cannot capture a target due to their low thermal signature.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 13 March 2021 01: 18
        +1
        Yeah, "small" drones with a wingspan of 12m, and much slower than the CD, but the CD knocks down the shell, but there is no "small" drone ... In general, you wrote complete nonsense
        1. dgonni
          dgonni 13 March 2021 10: 44
          -2
          But precisely because the carrier drone barges at altitudes of 4500-5000 meters within the limits of the shell's work, and for the destruction of these it uses ATGMs and gliding ammunition with a range of up to 8 km. The shell can neither reach the carrier nor effectively destroy the ammunition it uses!
      2. Hwostatij
        Hwostatij 14 March 2021 10: 31
        0
        And missiles cannot capture a target due to their low thermal signature.

        You would have wondered how Shell's missiles are guided before writing such nonsense.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 12 March 2021 18: 56
    -1
    And the price of a short burst from this "smart" wunder-gun, if you take not a commercial version of a drone, but a loitering ammunition !? Just with combat functionality, to combat ground-based mobile complexes MZA ... And so, there was a classic German BM, with "BMW gloss" ... and widely advertised characteristics of programmable detonation - 35 mm. ammunition with fragmentation warhead !!!
    1. Avior
      Avior 13 March 2021 00: 58
      0
      not cheap, but the consumption of shells is much less
      and compare, perhaps, with the price of the rocket
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 14 March 2021 21: 33
      0
      Quote: Intruder
      And the price, a short burst from this "smart" wunder-gun

      German 35mm shells for the Puma (Oerlikon AHEAD) cost about $ 5000 (or Euro, I don't remember already), 30mm Belgian shells from Mecar - more than 3000.
      In short, an expensive pleasure.
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 14 March 2021 23: 58
        0
        30 and not 35, of course
  • Phoenix
    Phoenix 12 March 2021 19: 27
    -3
    Cool, but one drawback - the module is very highly specialized. You cannot buy it and hide from tactical aviation, airborne flights and UAVs. Lack of normal missiles at a range of 15 + km. Two stingers are nothing. From a marketing point of view, it will be difficult to offer for this reason, the buyer will not cover all the needs with one complex.
    1. DDZ57
      DDZ57 13 March 2021 06: 43
      0
      Two stingers are nothing.

      There is an option not 2, but, for example, 60.
      The open architecture of the Rheinmetall Skyranger 30 complex allows it to be interfaced with other systems.
      Rheinmetall AG has chosen the SkyKnight anti-aircraft missile from the United Arab Emirates to provide the missile component of this Skyranger 30 air defense system.
      See IDEX 2021.
      Firing range (6-10?) Km, vertical start, the ability to fire multiple targets at the same time.
      The photo shows a container version (60 missiles). It can work autonomously, its own OLS.
      After 1-2 years, they will saw the version on a wheeled chassis, with 20-30 vertical launch missiles.
      But it looks like not only SAMs.

      1. Phoenix
        Phoenix 16 March 2021 22: 25
        0
        Well, what are we talking about. Buy one, two, three. You propose to combine a mobile complex with a stationary container. Or carry it on a trailer? Will not work. Imagine, I will sell you a car with three wheels, and the fourth you can buy whatever you want, completely open architecture!
        1. DDZ57
          DDZ57 17 March 2021 08: 56
          0
          Well, what are we talking about. Buy one, two, three. You propose to combine a mobile complex with a stationary container. Or carry it on a trailer? Will not work.


          I am not suggesting to combine something with something.
          The container is an option for air defense of stationary objects, given that they also have a stationary artillery module, a control module and a laser module. But the same container can also stand on a car and be part of automobile convoys and provide cover for them.
          They have a separate control vehicle (on the same chassis as the artillery module). And I suppose that as a supplement to the mobile artillery vehicle, they will have an independent mobile missile vehicle (vertical launch missiles) (on the same chassis as the artillery module), and then, quite possibly, a mobile laser complex.

          Imagine, I will sell you a car with three wheels, and the fourth you can buy whatever you want, completely open architecture!

          I cannot imagine that I am going to buy a car from you, because I have very nice cars.
          And about open architecture and a car with different wheels, each person has his own concepts. A situation arises and you have to put what is.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 12 March 2021 19: 32
    +1
    For interest, for the public on VO:
    We have:
    military air defense systems in the Russian Federation, which, according to their manufacturers, can effectively counter UAVs: SAM "Tor-M1" and "Tor-2E", "Buk-M2E" and "Buk-M3", "Morpheus", "Vityaz" , anti-aircraft missile-gun systems (ZRPK) "Pantsir-S1" and "Sosna":
    1. SAM "Tor" is positioned as one of the most effective domestic means of fighting stealthy targets (initially - with WTO cruise missiles). SAM "Tor-M1" can detect and process up to 48 air targets with an effective scattering area (EPR) of the order of 0,1 square meters, at ranges up to 27 km, and hit them with a probability of 0,56-0,98 at altitudes : 0,01-9 km and at a range of 1-12 km. The number of simultaneously fired air targets is 2. The reaction time of the complex is 7,4 s. A modification of the Tor-M2E air defense missile system can work on 4 air targets simultaneously. In the version of the "Tor-M2U" air defense system, the complex can also work on 4 air targets, but the ammunition load of the air defense missile system has been increased from 8 to 16 anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM).
    2. SAM "Buk" is also designed to combat air targets with small EPR - WTO cruise missiles, anti-radar missiles, as well as UAVs. According to the manufacturer, this air defense system can operate on 6 UAVs simultaneously, hitting them with a probability of 0,7-0,9, at a distance of 3-42 km and at altitudes of 0,015-25 km. The reaction time of the complex is 15-18 s. A promising air defense system, which is specifically focused on combating UAVs, is the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system (formerly known as the Tunguska-3). This complex is capable of detecting air targets with low RCS at ranges of up to 20 km, and hitting them using both missile and rapid-fire cannon armament. The range of destruction of missile weapons is 2,5-20 km at altitudes: 0,015-10 km. The range of destruction of cannon armament is 0-3 km at altitudes: 0,2-4 km. The number of simultaneously fired air targets is 2. The reaction time is 4-8 s.
    In 2019, a prototype of a new version of this ZRPK - "Pantsir-SM" was presented, while the final development of the complex should be completed in 2021. The ZRPK "Pantsir-SM" will be equipped with a new radar station (radar) based on a phased antenna array ( PAR) with increased performance in target detection range (up to 75 km), their selection and noise immunity. The complex will receive a new missile defense system with a flight speed of about 3000 m / s versus 1300 m / s from the existing Pantsir-C1. It is supposed to increase the capabilities of hitting targets: in range - up to
    40 km, in height - up to 15 km (for targets with a speed of no more than 2 km / s). Perhaps the complex will be presented in two versions - equipped only with missiles and in a version with missile and cannon armament. In the first version, the Pantsir-SM ammunition load will be 24 missiles, in the second - 12 missiles
    3. Another air defense system, specifically aimed at combating UAVs, is the Sosna air defense missile system, which, in fact, is a deep modernization of one of the massive army air defense systems Strela-10M3. So the "Strela-10M3" air defense missile system can hit air targets at altitudes: 0,01-3,5 km and at a distance: 0,8-5 km. (with the probability of hitting one missile defense system 0,3-0,6). Complex reaction time: 7-10 s. ZRPK "Sosna" as a missile weapon is equipped with 12 high-speed two-stage low-mass missiles, capable of speeds up to 900 m / s and maneuvers with an overload of up to 40g. The aiming of the missile defense system is carried out in a combined - radio command way at the launch site, later - teleorientation of the second stage in the laser beam. The range of destruction of this air defense missile system with missile weapons: 1,3-10 km., At altitudes: up to 5 km.

    And so far, what we have and use, without taking "fantastic" complexes with advanced combat lasers and microwave emitters .., for today! wink But these German gloomy, interesting sawing in a classic style ...
    1. Dread
      Dread 12 March 2021 21: 01
      -7
      Quote: Intruder
      The range of destruction of missile weapons 2,5-20 km at altitudes: 0,015-10 km... The range of destruction of cannon armament is 0-3 km at altitudes: 0,2-4 km. The number of simultaneously fired air targets - 2. Reaction time 4-8 s.

      Intruder - not tired of lying on VO and writing your own fables about "Pantsir-C1":
      1. Height of hitting targets
      "Pantsir-C1" missile armament
      is equal to H = 15 km,
      2. The reaction time "Pantsir-C1" is 4-6 seconds, not 4-8 seconds, etc.
      Quote: Intruder
      This complex is capable of detecting air targets with small RCS at ranges up to 20 km, and hit them using both rocket and rapid-fire cannon armament.

      Intruder - don't write about what you don't know! Baby talk. There are technical characteristics of the air defense system.
      1. The detection range of the Pantsir-S1 air defense system is D = 36 km for targets
      with image intensifier = 2 m2.
      Dear forum users! This strategist (apparently from the Square) deliberately writes a lie, underestimating the parameters of Russian air defense systems, and also does not give the characteristics of more modern complexes, for example, "Buk-M3", etc.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 12 March 2021 22: 06
        +2
        ... The detection range of the Pantsir-S1 air defense system is D = 36 km for targets
        with image intensifier = 2 m2.
        Are you rude already, dear !?
        Or fat and uninteresting trolling !?
        "... According to the manufacturer, this air defense system ...", taken from public data, in past years, this is a quote from one work in the Russian Federation, by the way ..., I can tell you where ...! wink
        and also does not give the characteristics of more modern complexes, for example, "Buk-M3", etc.
        And what, then ..., you have been struck by lightning, or is already smoking ... fellow !? Due to the fact that they are not, in mine, and not in your comment! ???? ...
        1. Dread
          Dread 12 March 2021 22: 19
          -2
          Quote: Intruder
          This complex is capable of detecting air targets with low RCS at ranges up to 20 km, and hit them using both rocket and rapid-fire cannon armament.

          Intruder - learn the parameters of the complex that I gave you ...
          For what small RCS? Small ESR is a loose concept! You are deliberately writing outdated data that does not correspond to reality!
          Learn to count!
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 12 March 2021 22: 25
            0
            Learn to count!
            maybe at first, start with yourself!?, and first read in Russian, because we write ..., it is from above and below my answers, to my angry "urges" of speech ..., or not speech at all, well, this is how and to whom - do you like it !?
            1. Dread
              Dread 12 March 2021 22: 31
              -6
              Quote: Intruder
              maybe you’ll start with yourself first !?, and for a start you’ll read it in Russian, because we’re writing ..., it is from above and below my answers, to my angry "urges" of speech ...,

              Intruder - write outright lies lowering the parameters and yourself brazenly rude ... Learn to count and do not write lies about the parameters of Pantsir-C1. Or refute my data about the parameters of "Armor - C1. Weak?"
              Or do you not understand the meaning of Russian expressions?
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 12 March 2021 22: 34
                0
                write an outright lie, lowering the parameters and blatantly rude yourself ...
                Proof of where !? winked You started to be rude to me and continue, also further ... sad
                Or refute my data about the parameters of "Armor - C1. Weak?"
                Only after you, my dear ... you are our accuser, on VO! laughing wink
        2. Dread
          Dread 13 March 2021 11: 54
          -4
          Quote: Intruder
          and also does not give the characteristics of more modern complexes, for example "Buk-M3" etc.
          And what, then ..., you have been struck by lightning, or is it already smoking ...!? Due to the fact that they are not, in mine, and not in your comment! ???? ...

          Intruder - learn Russian, don't know the meaning of Russian words and phrases ... Therefore, they lost their meaning and distorted my and my comments. The conversation went about the parameters of "Buk-M3", and not just about him!
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 12 March 2021 22: 13
        +2
        Dear forum users! This strategist (apparently from the Square)
        Past, and quite far now from Ukraine ... laughing , and you are strongly and personally against ethnic Ukrainians and their beloved country! ??? bully
        1. Dread
          Dread 13 March 2021 12: 04
          -3
          Quote: Intruder
          Dear forum users! This strategist (apparently with Square) Past, and quite far now from Ukraine ... and you are strongly and personally against ethnic Ukrainians and their beloved country! ???

          Intruder - again a complete lack of knowledge of the Russian language and the meaning of Russian words and phrases. I made an assumption and no more.
          1. ironic
            ironic 14 March 2021 20: 56
            -2
            Shaw and he also does not know the Russian language and is lying? And who else does not know the Russian language and the theorization of sour cabbage soup, which makes the language Russian?
      3. Intruder
        Intruder 12 March 2021 22: 22
        0
        deliberately writes a lie
        for your words, answer and then maybe ... my culture of communication won't let me tell you where to go !? Or, the game of the "predictor", you start knowing what and who is deliberately with, with other little-motivated speculations ... smile
      4. Intruder
        Intruder 12 March 2021 22: 47
        +1
        for purposes with image intensifier = 2 m2.
        and what kind of a non-systemic and most likely a personal-formal unit for image intensifier, in m2 - is measured ???, explain to the public on VO !? Brilliant value, really ...!? wink
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 13 March 2021 11: 12
          +2
          EPR has the dimension of area and is usually indicated in mXNUMX
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 13 March 2021 12: 17
            0
            maybe then it's better to just write - sq. m.!? if you cannot add a square, in the size of the area! ???
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 13 March 2021 12: 39
              0
              Well, they write and so too. When they don't want to bother with these indices. Moreover, on VO, the message editor does not allow this.
      5. ironic
        ironic 14 March 2021 21: 10
        -2
        He wrote everything correctly, according to the performance characteristics of hitting targets. Up to 20 km in range. In terms of altitude, yes, it is announced up to 15. But this is the last modification, the previous one up to 10. So here, too, it is partially correct.
        1. Dread
          Dread 14 March 2021 22: 58
          -4
          Quote: ironic
          But this is the last modification, the previous one up to 10. So here, too, it is partially correct.

          Do not write lies, but watch your favorite Wikipedia and the date of filling. Your lie is immediately apparent!
          1. ironic
            ironic 15 March 2021 18: 33
            -2
            I looked and found out that you are lying twice, the first time that there was no version up to 10 km, the second time you lie that I am lying. For you, lying twice is a common trick on the page where you write! The fact that the wiki does not mention a previous version is a wiki problem, not mine!
    2. dgonni
      dgonni 12 March 2021 21: 29
      +3
      From the fact that you have listed only Thor in extreme modifications, something really can.
      Everything else is about nothing!
      Especially against the miniature kamikaze!
      1. Genry
        Genry 12 March 2021 21: 58
        0
        Quote: dgonni
        Especially against the miniature kamikaze!

        Kamikaze just fly up to the available distance / height to the gun 20-30mm. TOP is simply redundant.
        1. dgonni
          dgonni 12 March 2021 22: 40
          -1
          For redundancy I agree. But he has a sensible radar and from all of the above, he is the only one that can do something.
          I don’t understand why he was not overwhelmed!
        2. V.I.P.
          V.I.P. 13 March 2021 08: 02
          -1
          And which of the Russian air defense cannon systems is able to detect and shoot down Spike-Nlos or ATGMs and UABs used from attack drones? I think there is nothing, or the consumption of ammunition for one target is such that there will not be enough ammunition to reflect the attack of several)))
          1. Thomas N.
            Thomas N. 13 March 2021 09: 31
            +2
            Quote: V.I.P.
            And which of the Russian air defense cannon systems is able to detect and shoot down Spike-Nlos or ATGMs and UABs used from attack drones? I think there is nothing, or the consumption of ammunition for one target is such that there will not be enough ammunition to reflect the attack of several)))

            "Shoot down Spike-Nlos or ATGM and UAB" can not be any "cannon system" of air defense both in the Russian Federation and in the rest of the world, because the indicated ammunition too small and fast. Only active defense complexes "Drozd", "Arena", Trophy, etc. are suitable for their defeat.
    3. Genry
      Genry 12 March 2021 21: 43
      0
      Quote: Intruder
      these German gloomy, interesting sawing in a classic style ...

      And these German ones have a completely different purpose.
      They write that it works for some drones, although neither the range nor the altitude will be enough. But they are very suitable for destroying various "gifts" from the sky (within the available speed / performance of the BIUS).
    4. DDZ57
      DDZ57 13 March 2021 07: 39
      +2
      Quote: Intruder
      [quote] taking "fantastic" complexes with advanced combat lasers and microwave emitters .. [/ quote]

      The open architecture of the Rheinmetall Skyranger 30 complex allows it to be interfaced with other systems.
      For example, with the Oerlikon Laser Gun.
      See Are Laser Cannons Reality? August 30, 2017
      https://topwar.ru/123468-lazernye-pushki-stanovyatsya-realnostyu.html[quote=Intruder]
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 13 March 2021 09: 14
        -1
        The open architecture of the Rheinmetall Skyranger 30 complex allows it to be interfaced with other systems.
        For example, with the Oerlikon Laser Gun.

        And how many of them are in service in the armies, in which countries !? Or, is it just a demonstration mass-dimensional model, a project from future promising directions, loved by all manufacturers !?
        1. DDZ57
          DDZ57 13 March 2021 11: 00
          0
          And how many of them are in service in the armies, in which countries !? Or, is it just a demonstration mass-dimensional model, a project from future promising directions, loved by all manufacturers !?


          You are right and the answer is in the article.
          It should be noted that the prospects of the Skyranger 30 project depend not only on the technical features of the module itself. Interest from potential customers can be stimulated by the specifics of recent conflicts. The wars in Syria, Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh have shown what a danger UAVs of different classes pose and how important the means to combat such a threat are. Rheinmetall is presenting its new project in fact in the wake of the recent showcase events.


          But they have it and they have the technology to produce it.
          Accordingly, they demonstrate it at training grounds and create cartoons.
          There will be a customer, i.e. money will be produced and put into service (not for decades).
          One of the prototypes:
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 13 March 2021 11: 24
            -1
            One of the prototypes:
            what is most interesting about these videos is:
            1. Shooting and hitting a hovering drone copter!
            2. Not maneuvering aerial target, only straight-line movement along the trajectory without active maneuvers in different planes ... !!!
            And now the question is, in real conditions, the developers think and show in their "advertising promos" that the UAV will hover in the area where the complex with the laser is located and will wait for defeat or will actively begin to make maneuvers !? wink , which will significantly reduce the time of exposure to radiation energy on its surface area, even without the use of protective measures in the materials of the drone body itself, or other methods of protection against incident radiation, according to the radiation data of sensors / detectors !?
            PS By the way, this is also applicable to a small-caliber anti-aircraft system, you can see how in the last century already, what and how the pilots "twisted" in World War II, in real combat conditions ...
            1. DDZ57
              DDZ57 13 March 2021 12: 52
              0
              And now the question is, in real conditions, the developers think and show in their "advertising promos" that the UAV will hover in the area where the complex with the laser is located and will wait for defeat or will actively begin to make maneuvers !?


              I do not praise the German laser and it is not a panacea for everything (since it has certain limitations), I am only talking about the fact that it is and there is a technology for its production.
              Its presence speaks of a comprehensive (integral) (AP, missile, laser, etc.) approach of the Germans to solving the problem of engaging an air target and, it seems, not only an air target.
              Whether the client needs a laser or not, it is up to the customer to decide. he pays for the system.
              The task of the developer is to show his product, including in the cartoon and at the training ground.
              Subsequently, the potential client (customer) will formulate in the TK: what target he needs to hit, what this target will have a flight path, how this target is protected, etc.
              And this TK of the client will subsequently be confirmed by the manufacturer, if there is no corruption component in the contract and the customer is "competent".
              And about the laser and the UAV: ​​it is not always necessary to set fire to the UAV in flight, sometimes it is enough to illuminate its eyes (OEP) (bolometric and body matrix), and this requires a completely different time interval and energy. And this will be enough to prevent the UAV from fulfilling its combat mission.
              And how to maneuver targets, if the automatic tracking devices of the BIUS (ground) steadily guide it, as in the picture from the AO (https://topwar.ru/174039-zenitnaja-artillerija-juzhnoj-korei.html), add a rocket and a laser here.
              And in the next five-year plan and ammunition with EMP (according to AB Prishchepenko) in the size of 30-40 mm with the possibility of influencing the pn transitions of the EEB targets within a radius of 10 m (along the sphere).
              .
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 13 March 2021 13: 35
                0
                And about the laser and the UAV: ​​it is not always necessary to set fire to the UAV in flight, sometimes it is enough to illuminate its eyes (OEP) (bolometric and body matrix), and this requires a completely different time interval and energy. And this will be enough to prevent the UAV from fulfilling its combat mission.

                - use of polarizing filters;
                - the use of reflective surfaces;
                - the use of TV cameras with a rotary mechanism;
                - optical shutters in front of the matrix;
                And it is better to apply everything in a complex of supporting measures and methods, specifically for optical systems, although the cost of solutions is growing noticeably, which is understandable!
                1. DDZ57
                  DDZ57 13 March 2021 14: 20
                  +1
                  And it is better to apply everything in a complex of supporting measures and methods, specifically for optical systems, although the cost of solutions is growing noticeably, which is understandable!


                  And a set of measures is carried out not only in defense, but also in attack.
                  And also with rising prices. What was written above.
                  But this is already a whim of the client, if he has finances and "brains".
              2. Intruder
                Intruder 13 March 2021 13: 46
                +1
                And in the next five-year plan and ammunition with EMP (according to AB Prishchepenko) in the size of 30-40 mm with the possibility of influencing the pn transitions of the EEB targets within a radius of 10 m (along the sphere).
                It is already old, in the USSR, explosive sources of EMP in the radio spectrum have already been created, more than 50 years ago and with rather successful tests, just described in the book, by this very author: Prischepenko A.B. "Explosive sources of electromagnetic radiation in the radio frequency range"! On the network, it is found on torrents, contains a lot of interesting ... wink
            2. Thomas N.
              Thomas N. 13 March 2021 13: 38
              -1
              Quote: Intruder
              By the way, this is also applicable to a small-caliber anti-aircraft system, you can see how in the last century already, what and how the pilots "twisted" in World War II, in real combat conditions ...

              The pilots of World War II were "spinning" in the "dog dump" of the fighter battle, to which the firing of ground or naval air defense had nothing to do with it. What and how could the pilot of a bomber, dive-bomber, torpedo-bomber on a combat course "twist"? Nothing! If he started to "twist" then the anti-aircraft guns worked as they should - they were knocked off the combat course and made to miss the target.
              I doubt that modern UAVs are capable of actively maneuvering. There is no pilot in the vehicle, so you can make a maneuver with any G-force? Yes, as long as it is strong enough (and heavy). That's just how the pilot can remotely to drive such a "spinning" drone? The view through the "keyhole" of the TV camera (compared to its own field of view), the time delay in acquiring an image and transmitting control signals, loss of orientation in space - the drone is spinning, and the pilot sits motionless. Probably the only option for active anti-aircraft maneuvering of a UAV is full artificial intelligence. What is there already?
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 13 March 2021 13: 51
                0
                But how can a pilot be able to remotely control such a "spinning" drone?
                the pilot controls, and the criticality of the parameters, when maneuvering, is already determined by the avionics in the control system on board the device, and quite successfully, there are long-proven solutions, with software "entrainment", for sports versions of drones even, it is used at competitions, when flying for a while, with various obstacles on ranges and during active maneuvering at extremely low flight altitudes ...
                1. Thomas N.
                  Thomas N. 13 March 2021 14: 18
                  0
                  As I understand from your text, the pilot does not control the UAV directly with the control stick, but sets the control points of the route, and, if necessary, sends a command to execute a preprogrammed aerobatics, followed by an automatic return to the original flight path, right?
                  It would be interesting to watch a video from a competition in which the drone performed such an "anti-aircraft" maneuver.
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 13 March 2021 14: 28
                    0
                    As I understand from your text, the pilot does not control the UAV directly with the control stick, but sets the control points of the route, and, if necessary, sends the command to execute a preprogrammed aerobatics
                    not quite so, but I understood the general essence ... I do not argue wink , there is always direct control of the operator "on the handle", but it is possible to use a flexible neuromorphic algorithm and autonomously under the influence of external factors programmed in flight ..., now neural algorithms have been used for a long time, with deep machine learning, even in autopilot. .and on the ground as well !!!
                  2. Intruder
                    Intruder 13 March 2021 14: 36
                    +2
                    It would be interesting to watch a video from the competition
                    there are several videos from sports performances in the past:

                    in urban conditions:

                    but we drag ourselves with natural flyers, in winter:
                    1. Intruder
                      Intruder 13 March 2021 14: 40
                      0
                      By the way, we have a lot of good pilot-operators in our community, and some, even with combat experience, but where and who will be nicely silent, for obvious reasons ... wink
              2. Intruder
                Intruder 13 March 2021 13: 54
                0
                The view through the "keyhole" of the TV camera (compared to its own field of view), the time delay in acquiring an image and transmitting control signals, loss of orientation in space - the drone is spinning, and the pilot sits motionless.
                panoramic cameras "with a wide eye" have long been used in FPV whales, you can even buy them, surprisingly ... - this is a massive civilian technology and the military has more opportunities to use all this, most, in their applications ...
              3. Intruder
                Intruder 13 March 2021 13: 59
                +1
                The pilots of World War II were "spinning" in the "dog dump" of fighter combat, to which the firing of ground or naval air defense had nothing to do with it.
                hmm ..., an interesting and bold statement, but in the reality of the last century:

                Our pilots have accumulated extensive experience in overcoming enemy anti-aircraft fire. However, the actions of some crews are sometimes still not free from errors. One of the main shortcomings is this: individual crews violate the general formation and order of battle. There are times when some pilots, under the influence of enemy anti-aircraft fire, begin to use their own, artisanal, most often erroneous, anti-aircraft maneuver. For the correct organization and conduct of the anti-aircraft maneuver, the group commander needs to prepare the wingmen on the ground, indicating to them the speed, altitude and intervals, conditional signals, the sequence of actions and rebuildings.

                1. The battle formation of a group of bombers or attack aircraft should be built in the first place with the expectation of effective destruction of the target. At the same time, when building a battle formation, one should remember about the force of fire interaction in a group, about its ability to repel attacks from enemy fighters. The Germans have a well-developed network of observation posts located only one or two kilometers from the front line and equipped with observation and calculation instruments, the data of which is immediately transmitted to the command posts of anti-aircraft artillery. Therefore, it is necessary to begin anti-aircraft maneuver even before the flight of the front line. To do this, you need to sew a certain margin of height and cross the front line with an imperceptible decrease at an increased speed, making small turns along the course, regardless of whether the German anti-aircraft artillery is firing or not. Such a maneuver misleads enemy observation posts, and its anti-aircraft batteries naturally receive a number of conflicting data.

                2. Those pilots who, choosing the route to the target, try to bypass the centers of concentration of enemy anti-aircraft weapons, do the right thing. In their practice, they adhere to the basic rule: never go directly to the target and do not stop anti-aircraft maneuver before the start of the combat course. Let's add to this a few words about the directional maneuver in the anti-aircraft fire zone. It is not recommended to make regular turns here (first to the right, then to the left), but you need to try to diversify them, alternating with short straight lines. Likewise, the height maneuver should not be pronounced. Alternating with horizontal flight segments, it will form short “platforms”.

                3. The most dangerous, in terms of the possibility of defeat, is the combat course of bombing, as well as keeping a straight line for control photography. It is here that the anti-aircraft maneuver should be based on strict calculation, based on knowledge of the tactical and technical data of the enemy's anti-aircraft artillery and their aircraft. Knowing, say, the location and caliber of the enemy's anti-aircraft guns (at least approximately), the given bombing altitude, one can say for sure on what segment of the combat path and how long the aircraft will be under the influence of enemy fire. Each pilot strives to start anti-aircraft maneuvers as soon as possible after dropping bombs. However, it is imperative to maintain a straight line for control photography. This is often used by enemy anti-aircraft gunners, firing to kill. Between those correct calculation of the pilot avoids defeat. Let us assume that at a certain aircraft speed, the crew needs 4-5 seconds to serially drop bombs. Let us assume that the time for bombs to fall from this height will be equal to 21 seconds. This means that until the moment of the first break, the pilot has 16 seconds in reserve, during which he must, as it were, maintain a straight line for control photographing. However, without violating the conditions of photography at all, you can make a maneuver in height and again become level flight. This altitude change will cause enemy anti-aircraft gunners not to calculate the data for firing. In the meantime, the crew will be able to take control pictures and, starting a new maneuver, get out of the firing zone. There are a number of other techniques when, by calculation, one can find and use the "dead craters" of shelling. One more note. During the anti-aircraft maneuver, one cannot come close to the lower edge of the clouds, since it is usually shot by anti-aircraft gunners. It is better to use a descent maneuver here.
                1. Thomas N.
                  Thomas N. 13 March 2021 14: 48
                  0
                  Curious text, which book is the quote from?
                  Judging by this text, this is written about bombers who bombed in a group from horizontal flight from medium and high altitudes, the enemy of which were anti-aircraft batteries of caliber 76, 85, 88 mm and above. I wrote mainly about airplanes (attack aircraft, dive bombers, torpedo bombers), which are fired by small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery, which is much closer to the topic of the article under discussion. It seems to me that there was almost no opportunity for airplanes to maneuver on a combat course at low altitude, evading anti-aircraft fire, there was only one bomb / torpedo, and not a series like the Il-4, Pe-2, He-111, B-17 etc. This is my impression after reading the memoirs from the series "We fought on ..."
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 13 March 2021 14: 59
                    0
                    Judging by this text, it is written about bombers who bombed in a group from horizontal flight from medium and high altitudes.
                    not only about the actions of the pilots of the "bombers", indicated in the quote and about: "The order of battle of a group of bombers or stormtroopers"!
                    Curious text, which book is the quote from?
                    honestly found in the search .., less than a minute of time and on the first page of search results! laughing wink I can give you a link ... (http://www.pomnivoinu.ru/home/calendar/4/12/5776/)
  • Simfy
    Simfy 12 March 2021 21: 44
    -2
    how much is this 3d cinema on "harp" ???
  • alexmach
    alexmach 13 March 2021 00: 14
    0
    But what about all the talk about the insufficient effectiveness of 30mm ammunition with GGE and programmed detonation?
    1. Thomas N.
      Thomas N. 13 March 2021 09: 32
      +1
      Quote: alexmach
      But what about all the talk about the insufficient effectiveness of 30mm ammunition with GGE and programmed detonation?

      And this is just talk smile
  • DDZ57
    DDZ57 13 March 2021 08: 02
    -2
    Quote: alexmach
    But what about all the talk about the insufficient effectiveness of 30mm ammunition with GGE and programmed detonation?


    And talk about the insufficient effectiveness of 30mm ammunition with GGE go only in the Russian Federation, tk. In the Russian army, there are no ammunition with shrapnel-fragmentation (fragmentation-beam) projectiles with axial, radial or radial-axial expansion of the GGE and programmable detonation on the trajectory in the ammunition of automatic guns.
    All this has already passed, tk. know they are not effective, but they have not been seen or compared.
    And a little about myths and other things in Russia on:
    "Strike Simonov in the face with a crutch ..." - https://mayday.rocks/simonovu-udar-kostylyom-pryamo-v-litso/
    "The last patron" - https://mayday.rocks/poslednij-patron/
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 13 March 2021 09: 47
      0
      with fragmentation-shrapnel (fragmentation-beam) projectiles with axial, radial or radial-axial expansion GGE
      and the geometry limitation of 30 mm., how can you get around to create a given density of the fragmentation flow in space, create new laws and unknown super-nano-materials, or "place" the volumes of the GGE into the subspace !? laughing wink , and then this "wondrous thing" in the geometry of 30 mm. projectile, or rather its warhead, which is just its segmentary part !? winked
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 14 March 2021 21: 52
        +1
        Quote: Intruder
        geometry limitation of 30 mm., how can you get around to create a given density of the fragmentation flow

        A 30mm shot contains 162 GGE with a mass of 1,24 g each, in my opinion, not so little.
        For comparison:
        35mm round contains 407 GGE with a mass of 1,24 g, or 152 GGE with a mass of 3,3 g, for more "dense" targets
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 13 March 2021 09: 26
    0
    Given the presence of Rheinmetall and more powerful guns, it is possible to make the system more powerful. 30mm, apparently, so that the module could be installed on everything.
    1. Thomas N.
      Thomas N. 13 March 2021 09: 39
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Given the presence of Rheinmetall and more powerful guns, it is possible to make the system more powerful. 30mm, apparently, so that the module could be installed on everything.

      Already done - Skyrandger 35. This is in the previous comments.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 13 March 2021 09: 48
        +1
        30mm is good, but for anti-aircraft guns it is already weak in range. UAVs are already flying at 4-5-6000 km.
        1. Thomas N.
          Thomas N. 13 March 2021 10: 29
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          30mm is good, but for anti-aircraft guns it is already weak in range. UAVs are already flying at 4-5-6000 km.

          6000 km is the radius of our planet Earth. Are you talking about satellites? And what is also a UAV smile
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 13 March 2021 10: 34
          0
          UAVs are already flying at 4-5-6000 km.
          not all types of UAVs, and not always, are at these altitudes in flight, plus they use low-altitude modes with terrain bending, as one of the types of counteraction to the possible use of electronic warfare by the enemy, in the radio shade of the natural terrain !!!
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 13 March 2021 10: 30
      0
      And the point is to make a larger caliber when there is excellent ammunition and already mastered for mass production, with versatility:
      Like these:


      Just to destroy air targets, even with on-board armor protection (all sorts of attack helicopters and attack aircraft ... and other "heavyweights"), they can surely hit any type of UAV with them!
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 14 March 2021 09: 06
        -1
        A larger caliber, gives a higher altitude ..... The barktar will hang at some 5000m, and 30mm will not fire. And he shoots at 5 km.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 14 March 2021 11: 28
          0
          Larger caliber, higher altitude ...
          And this is not always the case, if you do not take: the pressure in the barrel, with the characteristics of a propelling explosive, the aerodynamic shape of the projectile and other ballistic parameters of movement, then only an increase in caliber is rather the simplest form (with low costs) to ensure altitude !?
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 14 March 2021 11: 41
            0
            It's all tested and WWII .... what calibers, for what height. In terms of throwing a projectile, everything is the same.
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 14 March 2021 11: 31
          0
          The barktar will hang at 5000m,
          And he always loiters at a given altitude ???, he cannot hang, he needs speed - because the aircraft scheme !? laughing wink
          and 30mm will not fire. And he shoots at 5 km.
          for this, and invented a different type of missile launcher, no one hits air targets, in our troubled time from small-caliber artillery - at 5 m!?
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 14 March 2021 11: 40
            0
            Yes ..... but this, and everything like that, is built according to the glider scheme ... it flies as economically as possible at low speed
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 14 March 2021 12: 17
              0
              built according to the glider scheme ... it flies as economically as possible at low speed
              somehow all the same, not a glider-soar, a propeller-driven installation with different powers and types of motors !?
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 14 March 2021 22: 53
                0
                Almost a glider soar .... with a motor.
          2. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 14 March 2021 11: 42
            +1
            The goal is to destroy the UAV as cheaply as possible. A shell or a cheap rocket.
        3. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 14 March 2021 11: 49
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          The barktar will hang at 5000m, and 30mm will not fire

          These systems are not designed against the MALE class. We need medium-range complexes against them. They have Patriots, we have Buk, S-300/350/400. The carapace is already on the border and does not provide a guaranteed defeat.
    3. psiho117
      psiho117 14 March 2021 21: 48
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Given the presence of Rheinmetall and more powerful guns, it is possible to make the system more powerful.

      Just a 30mm projectile with dist. blasting, and produced from 35mm by reverse engineering.
      They have the same unified (for 35mm, 30mm guns and 40mm grenade launcher) programmable fuse Oerlikon AHEAD.
  • Thomas N.
    Thomas N. 13 March 2021 10: 23
    0
    The anti-aircraft self-propelled gun must use shots of a standard size of 30x173 mm with a fragmentation projectile and a programmable fuse. The projectile has warhead weighing 200 g and carries 160 cylindrical striking elements made of tungsten.

    The projectile (unguided) is the "warhead", there is nothing else in it (the fuse is also part of the warhead). The mass of this (PMC308, RWM Schweiz AG) projectile is 360 g (not 200), 201 g is the total mass of the GGE, of which there are 162 pieces in the projectile body. by 1,24 g.
  • DDZ57
    DDZ57 13 March 2021 10: 44
    0
    Quote: Intruder
    and the geometry limitation of 30 mm., how can you get around to create a given density of the fragmentation flow in space, create new laws and unknown super-nano-materials, or "place" the volumes of the GGE into the subspace !? laughing wink , and then this "wondrous thing" in the geometry of 30 mm. projectile, or rather its warhead, which is just its segmentary part !? winked


    The answer to your comment is given in the article.
    The anti-aircraft self-propelled gun must use shots of a standard size of 30x173 mm with a fragmentation projectile and a programmable fuse. The projectile has a warhead weighing 200 g and carries 160 cylindrical tungsten striking elements. Such ammunition has already been adopted and used by German armored vehicles equipped with a Rheinmetall Mauser MK30-2 / AVM cannon. Tests and practice have confirmed the high performance of these shots.


    And that these 160 cylindrical tungsten alloy striking elements are delivered to the required lead point of the trajectory along which the target is moving. And we must also take into account the fact that portioned feeding is carried out, i.e. the required number of shots required to hit an air target. Taking into account the fact that the process of hitting the target is controlled, i.e. visual (everything is visible on the monitor screen).

    Comparison of 30x173mm with GGE and 30x165mm with OFS s (CDC) is a comparison of rifle bullet cartridges with shot ones. Everyone is good in their segment. But in the air defense segment, for solving problems in which the Skyranger 30 was created, the shot is more preferable, i.e. fragmentation beam with axial flow of GGE and trajectory blasting.
    When creating a 30-mm ammunition, the developers considered it expedient to use striking elements weighing 1,24 g with a diameter of 4,65 mm. The projectile contains 162 striking elements, which are stacked in 6 rows of 27 elements in each row. Shot length - 290 mm, shot weight - 830 g, projectile length - 173 mm, projectile weight - 360 g, mass of ready-made striking elements - 201 g.
    Cm. Teeth. MSTU. http://www.btvt.narod.ru/4/rarn_airburst.htm).
    And there are no super-nano-materials and technologies here, everything is produced in rather large volumes and costs 200g no more than 1000 rubles.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 14 March 2021 12: 20
      0
      And that these 160 cylindrical tungsten alloy striking elements are delivered to the required lead point of the trajectory along which the target is moving.
      and why use tungsten alloys to create a fragmentation flow specifically for hitting light composite and polymer materials of the UAV airframe !? What a fundamental need for this .., cheap ceramics, with predetermined crushing segments and ready ... wink laughing
      1. DDZ57
        DDZ57 14 March 2021 14: 13
        +1
        Quote: Intruder
        And that these 160 cylindrical tungsten alloy striking elements are delivered to the required lead point of the trajectory along which the target is moving.
        and why use tungsten alloys to create a fragmentation flow specifically for hitting light composite and polymer materials of the UAV airframe !? What a fundamental need for this .., cheap ceramics, with predetermined crushing segments and ready ... wink laughing


        The PMC308 projectile (30x173mm with GGE) is universal in terms of its impact on different types of targets. It is used to solve problems not only of air defense (and in air defense not only for intercepting UAVs, but also for other purposes), but also for engaging various ground targets.
        The axial (into the front hemisphere) expanding flow of fragments simplifies and reduces the time of the CIUS for calculating the point of meeting with the target and allows you to quickly eliminate and compensate for errors.
        At the moment, there are no cheap design and technological solutions for cases made of ceramics and having a given crushing, especially in small calibers, given their large overloads.
        There is still no alternative to tungsten in terms of mass-energy and economic indicators.
        Indicators of the number of GGE, the percentage of their formation from a 30mm projectile, their expansion zone in this case are very optimal.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 14 March 2021 15: 22
          -1
          At the moment, there are no cheap design and technological solutions for cases made of ceramics and having a given crushing, especially in small calibers, given their large overloads.
          Cermet will be cheaper than a tungsten alloy, modern additive technologies make it possible to create volumetric structures from composite materials, including cermets, given at the stage of formation, with the possibility of geometric elements formed by an explosion in their local volume ...
          1. DDZ57
            DDZ57 14 March 2021 15: 53
            +1
            Quote: Intruder
            At the moment, there are no cheap design and technological solutions for cases made of ceramics and having a given crushing, especially in small calibers, given their large overloads.
            Cermet will be cheaper than a tungsten alloy, modern additive technologies make it possible to create volumetric structures from composite materials, including cermets, given at the stage of formation, with the possibility of geometric elements formed by an explosion in their local volume ...

            Opportunities may exist, but at present no one (the West, China, etc.) is using them.
            Not only in small calibers, but also in medium and large ones. Tungsten is used in a wide range of ammunition (in all calibers).
            Probably a combination of factors is at work after all.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 14 March 2021 16: 10
              0
              Opportunities may exist, but at present no one (the West, China, etc.) is using them.
              Not only in small calibers, but also in medium and large ones. Tungsten is used in a wide range of ammunition (in all calibers).
              Probably a combination of factors is at work after all.
              And here, I agree with you, as proof by evaluating at +1 !!!
              Of course it goes ... as a time-tested solution ... and also understandable, with all technological factors in mass production. But this does not mean that it cannot have analogues, or a promising replacement in the near future ..!? wink
              1. DDZ57
                DDZ57 14 March 2021 16: 48
                +1
                Quote: Intruder
                Opportunities may exist, but at present no one (the West, China, etc.) is using them.
                Not only in small calibers, but also in medium and large ones. Tungsten is used in a wide range of ammunition (in all calibers).
                Probably a combination of factors is at work after all.
                And here, I agree with you, as proof by evaluating at +1 !!!
                Of course it goes ... as a time-tested solution ... and also understandable, with all technological factors in mass production. But this does not mean that it cannot have analogues, or a promising replacement in the near future ..!? wink


                And so the time-tested solution gave in feces. 155mm area (mea, sq. M) - 8000 (this is with a ground burst, and what will happen with optimization?) And more than 30 thousand. fragments (nat & pre frag).
                So, they still have options for optimizing time-tested solutions.
                It cannot have analogues, you know where it can be.
                And this is how the work packages are going: Nexter is developing new warheads using new materials and 3D printing (the link was on VO).
                Work is underway on the so-called reactive materials [HDRM (High-Density Reactive Materials)], including hulls with prefragmentation.

                And the rating is +1 !!! - is it in terms of the school of the Russian Federation or in IT?
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 14 March 2021 17: 04
                  0
                  Quote: DDZ57
                  And so the time-tested solution gave in feces. 155mm square

                  The United States Air Force conducted experimental test exercises on September 2-3, 2020 using elements of the Advanced Battle Management System (ABMS), which is being created for the United States Air Force, Airforcemag reported.
                  At the White Sands test site in New Mexico, for the first time, the practical destruction of a target-simulator of a BQM-167 Skeeter cruise missile with an experimental 155-mm high-speed projectile HVP (Hypervelocity Projectile), which was developed by BAE Systems, was demonstrated. The 155 mm M109A6 Paladin self-propelled howitzer of the US Army was used for firing.


                  Another interesting solution is the installation of sea cannons on a land chassis. The height of 8-10 km should be taken, but the difficulty in calculating the trajectory of the projectile and the target.

                  China has a 76-mm SPAAG SA-2



                  Well, good old Otomatic
                  1. DDZ57
                    DDZ57 14 March 2021 18: 40
                    0
                    Another interesting solution is the installation of sea cannons on a land chassis. The height of 8-10 km should be taken, but the difficulty in calculating the trajectory of the projectile and the target.


                    They will not put naval guns on a land chassis. Naval cannons will solve tasks at sea.
                    You yourself showed how a 155mm self-propelled gun can solve air defense problems. They increase the number of their SPGs (on tracked and wheeled chassis), teach them to solve new problems and give them the tools to do this.
                    The same task (air defense) can be solved by them and MLRS, only in the missile component.
                    There is no difficulty in calculating the trajectory of the projectile and the target, there is great difficulty in detecting the target and the human factor.
                    Network centrism, control of space, detection and distribution of targets, acceptance of target designation and the choice of equipment and tools for solving the problem. All.
                    They work in the west.
                    So a little trifle: in Skyranger 30, which we are talking about in the article, there is a new programmer on the gun, it has 2 coils instead of 3 like the earlier ones (in cal. 30 and 35mm), which led to a decrease in its overall and mass dimensions.
                    Thus, without deteriorating combat performance, they managed to reduce the weight of the module in detail on each unit.
                    A question for experts: and the function of the interrogator "S-Ch" in the module is performed by HEADLIGHTS?
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 14 March 2021 19: 03
                      0
                      Quote: DDZ57
                      They will not put naval guns on a land chassis.

                      For C-RAM, that's exactly what they did, they took Phalanx. But on the whole I agree, there is no point in introducing a new caliber, it is better to increase the versatility of the current systems.
                      Quote: DDZ57
                      The same task (air defense) can be solved by them and MLRS,

                      AIM-120 on HIMARS already posed no problems. Of the interesting things, the Army buys the Tomahawk and the SM-6 upgrade as medium-range missiles, in theory it can retain anti-aircraft capabilities.
                      Quote: DDZ57
                      great difficulty in target detection and the human factor.

                      With the fact that these are key factors I agree, there should be a continuous continuous radar field over the troops. They are working on this too. X-Ku band radars are becoming a massive solution.
                      1. DDZ57
                        DDZ57 14 March 2021 19: 39
                        0
                        For C-RAM, that's exactly what they did, they took Phalanx.


                        They did not create anything new, they used everything that was ready.
                        Those. They took a unified maritime spent firing system (it requires only "drying") and put it on a unified land transport platform and received a short-range land-based anti-aircraft anti-aircraft system (penultimate line), which uses the ammunition that the ground troops have. They have problems, but they are slowly solving them.
                        See https://topwar.ru/154864-zenitnaja-artillerijskaja-ustanovka-centurion-c-ram-somnitelnaja-jeffektivnost-na-fone-zajavlenij-ob-uspehah.html
                        Those. this is what they talked about when they talked about, if we finalize "Shilka".
                        But this is provided that the Shilki assault rifles will show the same accuracy of fire as the six-barrel Centurion C-RAM and the same for BIUS, systems for detecting, transmitting and receiving data (target designation and communication), georeferencing, drives and stabilizers of assault rifles, and quite something else.
                      2. DDZ57
                        DDZ57 14 March 2021 19: 51
                        0
                        And Skyranger 30 was also created from everything ready, worked out and tested.
                        The most recent modern solutions were taken only for him.
                        It is also like replacing an old computer or phone with a new one with more advanced functionality.
                        Technologies are available, films will be shown and pies will be shown and will be baked at the test site.
                        It should be borne in mind that they have access to almost any modern element base and technologies. And there is personnel and finance.
                      3. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 14 March 2021 20: 10
                        0
                        Quote: DDZ57
                        But this is provided that the Shilki assault rifles will show the same accuracy of fire as the six-barrel Centurion C-RAM and the same for BIUS, systems for detecting, transmitting and receiving data (target designation and communication), georeferencing, drives and stabilizers of assault rifles, and quite something else.

                        It seems to me that we are now in a trap that European countries fell into in the late 30s. There are a large number of techniques and tactics that have shown their success in old wars, but they are practically useless in new ones. Everything needs to be written off and done again. The more I study air defense systems, the more the opinion is that this is what Russia needs to do. The phrase you need to change the radar, OLS, BIUS is suitable for almost all samples; modernize guns and missiles if possible.
                        The USA did just that out of the "old" only Patriot and Avenger remained. Hawks, Hercules, Rolands, Volcanoes, etc. are simply written off. They are not kicked to a working condition, new upgrades are not made. They do not meet modern threats, and accordingly they are not in the army. We spend a lot of money on the maintenance of old and on its basis make new, no one needs.
                  2. psiho117
                    psiho117 14 March 2021 22: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: DDZ57
                    A question for experts: and the function of the interrogator "S-Ch" in the module is performed by HEADLIGHTS?

                    Not an expert, but the requestor has always been a separate module, I don't think anything has changed.
              2. Intruder
                Intruder 14 March 2021 17: 41
                +1
                And the rating is +1 !!! - is it in terms of the school of the Russian Federation or in IT?
                maximum for a comment !!! laughing
              3. Intruder
                Intruder 14 March 2021 17: 44
                -1
                And this is how the work packages are going: Nexter is developing new warheads using new materials and 3D printing (the link was on VO).
                here, and I'm talking about additive and new materials, I interpreted above, thanks for confirming, otherwise some in other topics .. start screaming - prove it, and even with your finger in a search engine, poke it !? laughing
                1. DDZ57
                  DDZ57 14 March 2021 18: 17
                  0
                  here, and I am talking about additive and new materials, I explained above,


                  As for new technologies, there are none in Russia. And there are no specialists. If something is done, it is done on the knees and in single copies, and the price is not worth it (for a cartoon).
                  How cartoons are filmed about this and what it leads to:
                  "Filming" Rogozinsky "movie on the ISS endangered Russian cosmonauts"
                  https://mayday.rocks/semki-rogozinskogo-kino-na-mks-postavili-pod-ugrozu-rossijskih-kosmonavtov/

                  And about the comments, do not be offended, read:
                  "The prosaic uprising of robots"
                  https://mayday.rocks/prozaichnoe-vosstanie-robotov/
  • psiho117
    psiho117 14 March 2021 21: 59
    0
    Quote: DDZ57
    there are no super-nano-materials and technologies here, everything is produced in rather large volumes and costs 200g no more than 1000 rubles.

    Nope. 30mm Erlikonovsky for "Puma", cost about 5000 dollars - it was off. infa with purchases.
    Other manufacturers also offer not much cheaper, three to four thousand dollars per shell.
    1. DDZ57
      DDZ57 15 March 2021 06: 04
      0
      Nope. 30mm Erlikonovsky for "Puma", cost about 5000 dollars - it was off. infa with purchases.
      Other manufacturers also offer not much cheaper, three to four thousand dollars per shell.


      For a projectile or for a shot?
      I have 1000 rubles. for 200g - this is only the cost of 200g of GGE made of tungsten alloy, but I could be wrong, because the price of these alloys ranges from 5000r to ....
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 15 March 2021 11: 56
        0
        Quote: DDZ57
        For a projectile or for a shot

        For a shell. But there must have been some accompanying bells and whistles, otherwise it is very expensive, especially since the Germans bought their AHEAD quite massively.
        I have 1000 rubles. for 200g - this is only the cost of 200g GGE
        It is also necessary to take into account the cost of processing - this is a very refractory metal, there is special. arc furnaces are needed for it, with a huge consumption of electricity.
        1. DDZ57
          DDZ57 15 March 2021 16: 04
          0
          It is also necessary to take into account the cost of processing - this is a very refractory metal, there is special. arc furnaces are needed for it, with a huge consumption of electricity.


          It looks like there are no particular problems here if tungsten alloy shot is used in hunting cartridges for smooth-bore weapons. The cost of a shot in retail is about 10000 rubles / kg. The density of balls made of heavy tungsten alloys is 17,9 - 18,5 g / cmXNUMX.
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 14 March 2021 04: 57
    0
    Quote: Avior
    There is no programmable detonation of shells - an important function specifically against drones.

    Yes, and for a long time. Due to more modern systems, the Germans got by with a single gun, the tower is lighter and can be mounted on a wider range of chassis.


    There are a lot of photos and videos of the Turkish SPAAG Korkut - the guns are the same, the tower is also German development, licensed shells were also introduced there in a programmable fuse, but less advanced means of detecting and controlling devices, because the Turks preferred the older, two-gun version.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 14 March 2021 22: 10
      +1
      Quote: Azimuth
      the Turks preferred the older, two-gun version.

      In my opinion, the Turks simply copied / bought the "Gepard" circuits, and made their own, only on a new element base.
      1. Azimuth
        Azimuth 14 March 2021 22: 20
        +1
        The Cheetah had only the same guns, but with their side-by-side arrangement.
        The Turks generally released this pair as a memory device under license, it was developed in the 50s. Here the tower was taken from the Germans, a heavier version with a twin, equipped with simpler systems of its own production.
      2. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 14 March 2021 22: 23
        -1
        No, Korkut is a direct continuation of Skygard. They just have it in service.

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  • petroff
    petroff 20 March 2021 02: 38
    0
    Tympanic is it like? Shot a burst of drum and basta, to reload? That is, the actual and practical rate of fire are two big differences, or what?