Military Review

Age, age, the main thing is experience!

297
Age, age, the main thing is experience!

Internship, trainee and internship



Your authors almost never wrote about pensions, even in the "difficult" days of PR promotion of pension reform. Through televisions and the loyal press, bloggers and social networks. We repent, we did not write only because the reform did not directly affect either one or the other.

One of us is a pensioner about the same as a Bolshevik with pre-revolutionary experience. During the years of teaching, I managed to "save up" both the retirement experience and the accruals for it. Another - it's good that at one time he managed at least the necessary military experience to serve. If he had stayed a little late in the Square in the 90s, he could have stayed on the beans at all, and so he regularly receives his major's "thousand".

Nevertheless, now both felt that something was wrong with the reform, although the pandemic is casting a shadow on the fence. However, even with indexing, things often turn out awkward, and with some social benefits. It is better not to stutter about transport, although we both say “thanks” to Russian Railways separately for a one-time free travel across Russia, and regularly.

In general, the feeling that every change for the better, albeit small and capable of making few people happy, does not leave, is only called to this, in order to once again muffle the nasty feeling from this "big pension reform" itself.

We are already starting to communicate with the first victims of it, but they have just begun to acquire this feeling. But to blame them for the fact that a couple of years ago "slept through everything", the language somehow does not turn. Yes, and the latest decisions did not directly affect us either, there is already time for children to worry and collect certificates for every fireman in advance.

Where, where, why


Teachers, doctors, firefighters and pilots are actually an interesting, even original selection of shots who can now go on a well-deserved rest a little earlier. Although in these areas, potential retirees already had some "chances". However, they knew about them without us.

According to the new rules, which were signed by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, their work experience, which is needed for early retirement, will now be credited with studies in universities, and, most likely, in secondary educational institutions, for example, medical schools, and vocational training.

However, the latter is subject to the preservation of jobs and insurance pension contributions. The first, however, is also the case, since in student years no one can keep either jobs or insurance premiums for students by definition.

But what the hell is not joking, in the distant Soviet times, almost a quarter, or even a third of the students earned their 30-40 rubles from the so-called NIS (research sector). This is in good universities, and not necessarily technical ones.

Even in military schools, quite a lot of cadets managed to "find a place" somehow and somewhere. And from all such earnings, not only income taxes were regularly paid to the treasury, although there were "lower levels" there, but taking into account the scholarships for them, it went off scale, as well as all other deductions due.

In this case, to be honest, we would look in the original staff selection chosen by the Cabinet of Ministers for those who underwent retraining or studied just like that, without registration, as they say - for our own pleasure. But let's not be flattering, although the gifts that only a few can actually get are somehow not very inspiring.

The simpler the worse


The business and official press immediately described the latest pension innovations as simplifying the rules for early retirement. I would like to see some of the authors of such publications when they try to take advantage of this simplicity.

It's as easy as shelling pears to retire, as they say, at a minimum, when nothing serious, although no one really offers anything serious, you do not pretend. One of us had the opportunity to be convinced of this for quite a long time, when even the MFC was not yet, and the mayor in the capital was different.

All the simplicity actually boils down to the fact that it seems that only one certificate is required from an applicant for early retirement. From a technical school, institute-university or from refresher courses.

But, firstly, the certificate is by no means one, but with a confirmation or a visa from the personnel department, that it was not just that he studied. And secondly, it’s only with real educational institutions that it’s still all right - many have reformatted today, but at least there are legal successors.

Although, for example, at the Polytechnic University, which has merged with a dozen old Moscow technical universities, they are in no hurry to deal with the graduates of the 80s, and especially the 90s. Raising archives is a real headache, since many of them have dispersed to cities and villages.

But with the courses, it’s a disaster - sometimes it’s more difficult to find the ends there than in the archives of the Ministry of Defense during the Great Patriotic War, consider it simply unrealistic. But someone in their careers had such episodes as a second higher education or studying at the Universities of Marxism-Leninism, which have now been successfully re-profiled into private humanitarian universities.

It would be interesting to know how this kind of ideological retraining will be counted in the retirement experience? After all, she had, frankly, little in common with professional studies.

Have you forgotten the soldier?


To the doctors and teachers in the government, they generously added all “other categories of workers who are entitled to an early retirement pension". Previously, all of them counted only working hours, as well as periods of temporary disability and paid vacations.

In addition, it was finally decided to take into account the time when, for example, a pregnant woman was transferred to work that excludes harm or difficult working conditions, including lifting and carrying weights.

In general, it is indicative that the innovations through the Cabinet of Ministers were promoted by the Ministry of Labor, which in recent years has simply been inundated with appeals to the court demanding that certain everyday circumstances be taken into account.

But that's why in the same Ministry of Labor they completely forgot about those who honestly served a couple of years, and someone and all three in the army or on navy? Yes, the materials of the government now at least indicate that “the possibility of being included in the work experience for early retirement on preferential terms of service in the army"Is currently under discussion.

In the meantime, alas, there is no question of this, although according to the calculations of experts from the specialized committee of the Federation Council, this will require no more than 2 billion rubles annually. Compared to the figures, which we were alternately frightened and inspired by, campaigning for the need to raise the retirement age - sheer pennies.

And the main thing is that our government actually has them. You just have to look carefully.
Author:
Photos used:
Communist Party website
297 comments
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 14 March 2021 04: 27
    +15
    One of us is a pensioner about the same as a Bolshevik with pre-revolutionary experience.
    p: "How dare you, impudent man, with an unclean snout
    Here net stir up drink My
    With sand and silt?
    For insolence
    I’ll rip your head off. "-
    "When the brightest Wolf allows,
    I dare to bring that down the stream
    From the lordship of his steps I drink a hundred;
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 06: 27
      +16
      Uh-huh "the farther the worse and worse."
      1. Machito
        Machito 14 March 2021 10: 24
        +33
        He served as an urgent in 91-93 years. According to Yeltsin's law on the status of military personnel of that time, a year of military service was counted as two years of work experience. And then, under Putin, I was robbed of four years of work experience. The law is not retroactive. Only not in EBN-GDP Russia. The law is that the drawbar, where it turned, went there. I remember the oath promises of one gallery owner that the retirement age will not rise. So what? One chatter. They stole five years and more than a million rubles.
        Everything is like a classic:
        -And how is it in Russia?
        - They steal.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 14 March 2021 15: 22
          +2
          Quote: Bearded
          They stole five years and more than a million rubles.

          The President asked you to be understanding.
          Understanding, acceptance, tolerance - these European and universal values ​​should not be alien to us.
          There is no tolerance for different kinds of rainbow scum, God forbid, but for such decisions of the authorities.
          1. Machito
            Machito 14 March 2021 16: 09
            +6
            Understand and forgive?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 14 March 2021 16: 19
              -24%
              The global trend and, alas, Russia with 46 million retirees is no exception - so you have to accept, but you can not forgive - your right.
              1. vic02
                vic02 15 March 2021 12: 31
                +2
                You may not forgive - your right
                The existence of the right presupposes the possibility of some kind of reciprocal legal action. And all such opportunities are now actively suppressed by the authorities, so it is quite possible to say that there is no right "not to forgive".
        2. Stas Sv
          Stas Sv 15 March 2021 17: 03
          -2
          I wonder for what such feats a year in two? Really was a leDchik ???
          Even at the flight school they counted year after year. winked
          1. notingem
            notingem 19 March 2021 00: 51
            +2
            They thought to see a lot. You went yourself, but the Soldier was not even interested in what kind of troops you want to serve.
  2. Van 16
    Van 16 14 March 2021 04: 38
    +35
    This "simplification" is not even a handout, it is the appearance of a handout.
    For a long time already everything is clear with this cannibalistic reform.
    1. Machito
      Machito 14 March 2021 10: 27
      +33
      Russia's problem is not that you can't feed the poor, but that the rich won't get drunk. So that they burst.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 10: 36
        +13
        Quote: Bearded
        So that they burst

        No, they themselves will not burst. bully
        Last year, Russia took the "honorable" first place in suicide among pensioners. Another record for this power.
        1. Machito
          Machito 14 March 2021 10: 40
          +15
          Putin is not interested in pensioners, consumables. At a meeting with volunteers, he was concerned about child suicide over his liberal social media. Very much reminded of Ostap Bender. The union of the sword and plowshare.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 11: 05
            +21
            Quote: Bearded
            At a meeting with volunteers, he was worried about the problem of child suicide due to his liberal social networks.

            Only in conjunction with a massive outcry of young people on the streets. Prior to that, this problem did not bother him, although by this indicator Russia has long been in the top three. And now these are banal political technologies, and cheap ones, because equating protests with suicides is insanity.
            It would be better to take up drugs, we are in the first place in the consumption of heroin. But no, there is money.
            There is a measured genocide of the Russian people, in the best traditions of the Ost plan.
            1. Machito
              Machito 14 March 2021 11: 11
              +22
              The police feed on drugs. What to deprive the police of income?
              Autumn elections. Until the fall, EdRo will throw all the fans. It's time for empty promises. For there is no money, but you hold on.
              1. ammunition
                ammunition 14 March 2021 15: 33
                +9
                Quote: Bearded
                For there is no money, but you hold on

                So there is money. 2019 surplus - 2 trillion. rub. Surplus in 2020 - 1 trillion. rub. And this is actually the collected money.
                I wonder where these trillions go?
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 16: 40
                  +8
                  Quote: ammunition
                  Surplus in 2020 - 1 trillion. rub

                  In fact, the deficit is about 700 billion. rub. And a trillion is, so to speak, the remainder, so to speak, they simply did not have time to spend (or saw). laughing
                  Thimblers, in a word.
                  1. Drugov
                    Drugov 16 March 2021 00: 31
                    +1
                    Every year, over 3 trillion rubles are hidden in our budget under the SECRET label for secret needs. How these colossal sums are spent is anyone's guess. And so there is no money!
          2. Hagen
            Hagen 14 March 2021 11: 22
            -25%
            Quote: Bearded
            Putin is not interested in pensioners, consumables.

            And why should retirees be more interesting to someone than to themselves? A person who, at the age of forty, has thought about a pension, may well provide it for himself by the age of 60 and leave for it as a desire or need arises. And there is no need to sing songs about the fact that all of us here are so poor that we cannot save a penny for our future. Some have difficulties, but the overwhelming majority simply do not want to look into the retirement perspective. It is from the unwillingness to build their own perspective that many are credited for vacations, repairs, September 1, etc. As if these are all unpredictable events. The same is about retirement. It's just that when there is a couple of years left before entering it, then it's too late to "wiggle your brains." It is high time to understand that the state pension from the PFR will never be able to meet the needs, like the usual amount of wages, no matter what the Fund's reforms are carried out.
            1. Machito
              Machito 14 March 2021 11: 28
              +17
              If you are frail, go straight to the coffin ...
              Circumstances are different, intelligence, professional skills are also different. And in general, people are different. Do you want to cut everyone with the same brush? Under you?
              Aloizych also divided people into different categories.
              Most Russians will not master half of the text in VO.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 14 March 2021 11: 37
                -10%
                Quote: Bearded
                Most Russians will not master half of the text in VO.

                Do you know many of this half? What makes you think that they are stupider than you?
                Quote: Bearded
                Do you want to cut everyone with the same brush? Under you?

                And who here said about one comb? You? The human community has never been and never will be a single monolith. There will always be a base in the center and something along the flanks. This must be understood and accepted as an existing inevitability. I'm not going to cut anyone. I propose to try to look into the future for those who may be interested in this, and for whom it is still possible. "Whoever throws the rudders and oars, those" hard "brings them ...."
            2. U-58
              U-58 14 March 2021 11: 48
              +18
              According to your logic, only wealthy people are credited for vacations, who "can provide themselves with a pension."
              Spend a poor vacation at home. For borrowing strangers and for a while, but giving your own and navsed, is beyond the power of the poor. And that is why he himself can provide his own pension in a very theoretical and minimal way.
              It would never have crossed my mind to take out a vacation loan.
              By the way, after 1991 I spent all my vacations at home. Sad but true.
              So I saw the Black Sea back in the USSR exactly after the Emergency Committee.
              1. tralflot1832
                tralflot1832 14 March 2021 11: 59
                -8
                The Black Sea will shake you off now, vacation is better than fishing at home. Last year I wet my feet twice last year, but I need this sea,
              2. Hagen
                Hagen 14 March 2021 12: 44
                -15%
                Quote: U-58
                According to your logic, only wealthy people are credited for vacations, who "can provide themselves with a pension."

                This cannot follow from what I have said, because the very logic of a loan is precisely that they take a loan when there is no money. "Wealthy people" have money, that's why they are called "wealthy". The people with whom I have to communicate in half of the cases cite the inability / inability (as a rule, it is very difficult) to accumulate savings in advance as the main reason. It is difficult to resist the temptation to spend money when you have it in your account. Therefore, it is easier for them to take a loan, and then "unfasten, reluctantly" the bank. Some have such a philosophy of life - to enjoy today, and then I will somehow pay off. At the same time, almost everyone understands that this leads to additional costs, but nevertheless go for it. Such is the weirdness.
              3. your1970
                your1970 15 March 2021 21: 12
                0
                Quote: U-58
                It would never have crossed my mind to take out a vacation loan.

                I know three people who took out loans for vacations. Repeatedly.....
                I know two who took loans - for Gelendvagen and Skoda Kadiak. The owner of the Skoda has always hungry eyes, the owner of Gelik told me - "And what I eat before the light bulb. But I am always greeted by clothes .."
                Quote: Hagen
                Some have such a philosophy of life - to enjoy today, and then I will somehow pay off. At the same time, almost everyone understands that this leads to additional costs, but nevertheless go for it. Such is the weirdness.

            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 12: 08
              +15
              Quote: Hagen

              And why should retirees be more interesting to someone than to themselves?

              Why then taxes, dear? After all, 30% of the salary that the employer allegedly pays for you, and which is taken into account by him in any way when forming the salary, is deducted for each employee. wink
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 14 March 2021 12: 50
                -19%
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                After all, 30% of the salary that the employer allegedly pays for you

                You will show me this 30% in the calculation. In my experience, when people get a job, they see in the employment contract only the accrual from which personal income tax is withheld. Only. Contributions to various funds that the employer pays, he pays from OWN funds, not from yours. wink
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 13: 07
                  +11
                  Quote: Hagen
                  Contributions to different funds what the employer pays

                  Can you show me at least one employer who forms the payroll without taking into account the fact that for each employee you still need to pay 30% tax? This money also comes from the workers' salaries, and not from the personal pocket of the employer. An official scam in the style of twisting, I want to confuse. As a former individual entrepreneur, I am telling you this, who had a staff of workers.
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 14 March 2021 13: 12
                    -20%
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    This money also comes from the workers' salaries, and not from the personal pocket of the employer.

                    If you take something not provided for from the salary, which must be paid to the employee under the contract, then the prosecutor's office will take care of you or the employee will simply leave you. It is very significant that you were an individual entrepreneur and had a staff of employees. That is why they "were" because there was not enough literacy in business. Although, of course, you will present yourself as "victims of the regime"? laughing
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 13: 19
                      +13
                      Quote: Hagen
                      If you remove something not provided for from the salary that the employee must pay under the contract, then the prosecutor's office will take care of you

                      Are you pretending to be, or are you naturally so long-walking?
                      Once again, any entrepreneur, when forming the payroll, will definitely take into account the fact that he will have to pay 30% for each employee. This is an axiom.
                      Accordingly, this money is simply not paid in addition to the workers.
                      1. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 13: 23
                        -16%
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Accordingly, this money is simply not paid in addition to the workers.

                        You are trying to present yourself as holier than the Pope. You will pay the employee exactly the same amount how long it takes for him to 1. come to work for you, and 2. so that he does not run to a competitor. And at the same time you will build the work of your enterprise so that with all these payments, which you cannot dodge, you will also be in profit. And if you manage not to pay to the Pension Fund, then you will not add these 22% to the employee's salary. Today, many of these are trying to find their former employers, who did not contribute a penny to the FIU for them.
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 13: 35
                        +11
                        Quote: Hagen
                        how long it takes for him to 1. come to work for you, and 2. so that he does not run to a competitor.

                        Does this somehow refute the fact that workers receive less than 30% of their salary? belay
                        Let's take a look at the other side - why are gray salaries usually higher than whites? wink
                      3. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 13: 51
                        -18%
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Does this somehow refute the fact that workers receive less than 30% of their salary?

                        This cannot be refuted, because for reasons it is not connected at all with each other. Although probably one thing to connect them is the lack of talent of the employer.
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        why are gray salaries generally higher than whites?

                        Because it is necessary to keep the skilled workers at home and not to drop their profits. And how these "gray" will receive a pension, such an employer "to the lamp."
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 14: 02
                        +10
                        Quote: Hagen
                        And how will these "gray" ones get their pension,

                        What kind of pension? Firstly, there are not many chances to live up to it, and secondly, it is difficult to call those pennies a pension that pensioners pay now. Taking a calculator in hand, it is easy to calculate that people are not getting anywhere near the amount they have been paying for many years.
                      5. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 14: 11
                        -15%
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Firstly, there are not many chances to live up to her.

                        Not at all. If the average for my subject is 68, this does not mean that personally I cannot live more than 68 ...
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        people don't get anywhere near the amount they have been paying for many years.

                        Here I am talking about the same thing. At the same time, the option remains - to form their savings in addition to the pension from the Pension Fund. The whole world does just that (in different volumes), and only in Russia all the hopes are only on the federal authorities.
                      6. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 14: 12
                        +5
                        Quote: Hagen
                        in addition to pension from the Pension Fund

                        Better instead, not in addition.
                      7. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 14: 15
                        -9
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Better instead, not in addition.

                        There is no point in giving up even small things. Or do you propose to liquidate the PFR in principle, by law to increase salaries by 22% and impose the collection of pension funds directly on the citizen?
                      8. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 14: 24
                        +7
                        Quote: Hagen
                        to impose the collection of pension funds directly on the citizen?

                        Now he is also on the citizen. And yes, to cancel the payment by entrepreneurs, and oblige them to raise salary by this amount. In addition, all taxes paid by a citizen and not received by him in the form of pensions should be paid to relatives as an inheritance.
                      9. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 14: 53
                        -9
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Now he is also on the citizen.

                        Now citizens do not participate in payments to the PFR, with the exception of individual entrepreneurs and self-employed, who are "sitting" on a 6% tax or patent. There is a possibility of voluntary contributions to the FIU. But there are few of them.
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And yes, to cancel the payment by entrepreneurs, and oblige them to raise salary by this amount

                        What's the point? Who will get better? But today the working system will collapse instantly.
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        In addition, all taxes paid by a citizen and not received by him in the form of pensions should be paid to relatives as an inheritance.

                        First, these are not taxes. Secondly, if you collect your pension through NPF, these contributions are inherited today. Russia inherited the current system of "state" pensions from the USSR, just like the system for collecting personal income tax. Everyone is used to this, why break something. After all, if you transfer the obligation to make contributions to a citizen, they will still be forced, like an agent, to be collected and transferred to a fund by the employer (in the likeness of personal income tax). What is the advantage of your offers? Today, out of 9 trillion rubles of receipts to the PFR, 4 are from the federal budget. If, as you suggest, the current income to the PFR budget is transferred to the personal accounts of working people, then a hole of 5 trillion rubles will be formed. What do you offer to close?
                      10. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 15: 14
                        +4
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Now citizens do not participate in payments to the FIU,

                        You are really "heavy". laughing I have already chewed on you that only the most "narrow-minded" entrepreneur will not take this 30% into account when forming the payroll.
                        Quote: Hagen
                        But today the working system will collapse instantly.

                        Why is that? belay The money is the same, the recipient is the same, the FIU. But there is a personal responsibility of the FIU to citizens, for the contributions paid by them.
                        Quote: Hagen
                        these contributions are still inherited today.

                        This is a minuscule amount of taxes paid.
                        Quote: Hagen
                        then a hole of 5 trillion rubles is formed. What do you offer to close?

                        TE Do you now admit that the FIU is a banal financial pyramid? wink
                        But seriously, just as before, pay from the current contributions. But on a different principle. This is how FIUs work in all countries.
                      11. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 15: 27
                        -19%
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The money is the same, the recipient is the same, the FIU. But there is a personal responsibility of the FIU to citizens, for the contributions paid by them.

                        I can't imagine how you were an entrepreneur without understanding the elementary things? Apparently that's why you don't take it today ...
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        TE Do you now admit that the FIU is a banal financial pyramid?

                        Why did you get this?
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        But seriously, just as before, pay from the current contributions. But on a different principle. This is how FIUs work in all countries.

                        You have such a mess in your head !!! You do not want to understand in any way that the money on personal accounts should work as investments in profitable projects in order to grow to compensate for inflation. They cannot just be spent on the current financing of the state's obligations. That is why the state freezes the 6% funded part, which was given the right to dispose of citizens. I will not call you "heavy" or anything else. But I recommend reading something about economics and money. You are not special at all in these matters.
                      12. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 15: 43
                        +6
                        Quote: Hagen
                        But I recommend reading something about economics and money.

                        I recommend that you get acquainted with the basics of economics, listen to Glazyev and other independent economists.
                        And for your information, I know a little more about economics than the average man in the street, I have a "rig" specializing in finance and credit. So I don’t need a mess in my head. wink
                      13. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 15: 48
                        -11%
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I have a "tower" specializing in finance and credit. So I don’t need a mess in my head.

                        End of the world!!! How did you learn that with such a "tower" you are terminologically confused in taxes and contributions. In absentia, or what?
                      14. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 16: 03
                        +3
                        Quote: Hagen
                        taxes and contributions

                        In the area of ​​pension contributions, it is more correct to talk about contributions. After all, a fund (and the PFR is just a fund) implies just contributions. wink
                      15. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 March 2021 16: 13
                        -9
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        In the area of ​​pension contributions, it is more correct to talk about contributions.

                        I don't even try to argue wink
  • bk316
    bk316 15 March 2021 00: 42
    -7
    After all, 30% of the salary that the employer allegedly pays for you, and which is taken into account by him in any way when forming the salary, is deducted for each employee

    Write incredible stupidity, maybe that's why they went broke.
    Look here. My IT company has reduced social insurance this year from 15% to 7,6% (by the way, no 30%). According to yours, salaries should have changed. But NO have not changed.
    Because the employer pays exactly what the employee can buy and taxes do not affect this in any way. If the taxes are so high that the profitability is insufficient, the business simply closes. Therefore, the employer will simply put these 7% in his pocket.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 14 March 2021 12: 51
    +16
    Quote: Hagen
    the state pension from the FIU will never be able to meet the needs,

    A simple, to the point of banality, question arises: why then work for the state and for a "white" salary?
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 14 March 2021 12: 59
      -15%
      Quote: Silvestr
      A simple, to the point of banality, question arises: why then work for the state and for a "white" salary?

      The answer is simple to the point of banality. The state, developing an apparatus of violence, is strenuously looking for those who do not want to work according to the rules established by the state, and forcing them to comply with the rules. Someone still succeeds in working in a gray zone, but there is no guarantee that this will last forever. It is clear that the question is not for you. You already have a pension. But the employer has a lot to lose if he gets caught up in the tax. Those who aspire to the gray zone as an employee before retirement will join the ranks of those dissatisfied with the size of this pension in the future.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 14 March 2021 14: 51
        +10
        Quote: Hagen
        looking for those who do not want to work according to the rules established by the state, and forcing them to comply with the rules.

        the dust will be tortured to swallow such a state.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 14 March 2021 14: 56
          -13%
          Quote: Silvestr
          the dust will be tortured to swallow such a state.

          Still not worn out. Why should something change? Do you consider yourself more powerful than the state? This state gave you the opportunity to live in better conditions than many within these boundaries. Why do you hate him?
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 15 March 2021 11: 32
            +5
            Quote: Hagen
            This state gave you the opportunity to live in better conditions than many within these borders.

            Tell this to my deceased mother with a pension of 11 thousand and an experience of 42 years, and to me, who bought medicines in intensive care for 60 thousand.
            Quote: Hagen
            Why do you hate him?

            That’s why I don’t like it and there is a reason!
          2. Drugov
            Drugov 16 March 2021 00: 50
            0
            What pathos, what pathos! Straight high calm! Do you know what data Rosstat answers you with?
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 14 March 2021 22: 36
      +8
      Quote: Silvestr
      A simple, to the point of banality, question arises: why then work for the state and for a "white" salary?

      I had another question a long time ago. Why do I need such a state? The state should be for the people, not the people for the enrichment of government officials.
      1. bk316
        bk316 15 March 2021 00: 45
        -12%
        Why do I need such a state?

        I don’t know.
        And I have already written 100 times what I need from the state. am
        - so that there are no wars and revolutions and the streets can be walked without a machine gun.
        -that the laws would protect me
        - so that the infrastructure would work
        All this was given to me, the rest I myself ...
    3. bk316
      bk316 15 March 2021 00: 44
      -6
      question: why then work for the state

      Greetings. Well, you know, to sleep well. laughing
  • Aag
    Aag 14 March 2021 16: 13
    +12
    Quote: Hagen
    Quote: Bearded
    Putin is not interested in pensioners, consumables.

    And why should retirees be more interesting to someone than to themselves? A person who, at the age of forty, has thought about a pension, may well provide it for himself by the age of 60 and leave for it as a desire or need arises. And there is no need to sing songs about the fact that all of us here are so poor that we cannot save a penny for our future. Some have difficulties, but the overwhelming majority simply do not want to look into the retirement perspective. It is from the unwillingness to build their own perspective that many are credited for vacations, repairs, September 1, etc. As if these are all unpredictable events. The same is about retirement. It's just that when there is a couple of years left before entering it, then it's too late to "wiggle your brains." It is high time to understand that the state pension from the PFR will never be able to meet the needs, like the usual amount of wages, no matter what the Fund's reforms are carried out.

    Your comment is a direct confirmation of the effectiveness of the "work" carried out by those in power. Perhaps, they applaud you standing up ... Like, those who have now received less than promised (guaranteed by Federal laws, the Constitution), or even specifically on the verge of poverty, are to blame! There have already been so many ... innovations on pensions that it is difficult to keep track of (maybe that's the reason for that?) ...
    And now, through the media, the question is imposed on young people: "We will feed the old people, provide them with jobs, or at least an acceptable level of" living "(ugh, bl., We have formed the rhetoric!), Or, let us give way to the young, promising, white, fluffy, (who do not remember, do not know what a socially oriented state is, yes, I mean the USSR, although it seems that there are already a number of countries, we are looking at Scandinavia, where this issue and under the conditions of capitalism is being implemented more than successfully ...).
    Does the current leadership of the Russian Federation have any results? Still as it is! Here it is: "Why should pensioners be more interesting to someone than to themselves?" !!!
    Okay, let's get down to earth. Where can you "" ... put aside a pretty penny ... "with confidence that at least YOUR penny can be returned in old age? Somehow the level of official inflation, and real price increases; deprivation of licenses for banks, etc. , strongly limit the choice. Don't you think? And, this, if we assume that there is something to postpone (we will leave the discussion of existing taxation for discussion of another article).
    No, well, really, in your environment there are no people who were blatantly, stupidly thrown ?! I agree, there are times when people seem to have done everything to find themselves "at the bottom of the trough." , the state should be concerned that this does not happen. And not vice versa! How long can you "change the rules of the game" (the term itself, I think, is inappropriate)? Their young people, with whom I communicate, (25-35 years old), no one believes in a pension, not in independent savings (they have nowhere to come from for the overwhelming majority).
    Yes, exactly "unpredictable events" - as you write! ... Yes, there were comrades who were "credited for vacation, repairs" ... .)).
    And most of them talk about their uncle, themselves without vacations, pandemics, sometimes with one day off a week ...
    Perhaps this has not yet touched you, and you think that, miraculously, it will not touch ... If you want, write ...
    So, for the sincerity of the conversation ... The Moscow Region retired in 1999, due to disability (I did not receive insurance), the pension indexation promised by the two leading Presidents of the Russian Federation is not expected (I remind those who are not in the know, the timing is definitely not I remember that the members of the forum will correct it, but officers who went into the reserve in the period from 1998 to 2010 were charged with a decreasing coefficient of 1.9-type, there is no money, then we will return ..., of course, there were also tricks for allowances, etc.). Honestly, - it's not clever to write about it, - when they "bent" a BIG part of the surviving part of the population, the PEOPLE, the country that was under construction, creating everything that is now shamelessly surrendering, is being sold to the former adversaries (current "partners") for the sake of a separate group of people ...
    No, do you really think that you will not be "dumped"? Are you special?
    Let me remind you of the story about the "hammers" from Irkutsk (a couple ... teenagers were hammering homeless people, pensioners with hammers) ...
    The case was loud. On the central channels, too, flashed. But it seems, not in full. On local TV, interviews with detainees flashed, where they were sincerely surprised, they say, didn’t we cleanse the city of unnecessary, unworthy people? anyway, they do not bring any benefit to society!
    Sound familiar?
    Please think about your words. In the end, in the current situation, in the role of victims, such as "cleaners", perhaps any of us, including you.
    Sorry if I misunderstood your comment, but, according to your rhetoric, everyone can appreciate it ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 March 2021 16: 34
      -16%
      Money out of thin air for all your Wishlist will never appear - and the effectiveness of the "work" carried out by those in power has absolutely nothing to do with it.
      1. Gardener91
        Gardener91 14 March 2021 17: 16
        +6
        Quote: Vadim237
        Money out of thin air for all your wishes will never appear

        Elementary Wishlist just to live, feed, be treated, dress, help relatives and pay for the KOMUNALKU! Well, yes, and "the effectiveness of the" work done "has absolutely nothing to do with the powers that be." After all, how much a pensioner is measured after 65, if he lived, only the Lord knows. Amen.
      2. Aag
        Aag 14 March 2021 17: 58
        +7
        Quote: Vadim237
        Money out of thin air for all your Wishlist will never appear - and the effectiveness of the "work" carried out by those in power has absolutely nothing to do with it.

        Do not take the arrows away ... And yes, - be ready, figuratively, - to receive a kumpol from ideological opponents when they meet at the garbage cans! With your support of what is happening, - a completely real plot. Or, as often happens, you consider that you are the chosen one, Are you lucky? You need to be more zealous! Then, maybe ... And so ... Well, you will exhaust the "extra", - you yourself will become unnecessary ... (((
    2. Hagen
      Hagen 14 March 2021 19: 22
      -11%
      Quote: AAG
      No, do you really think that you will not be "dumped"? Are you special?

      Are you sure you must throw it?
      Quote: AAG
      So, for the sincerity of the conversation ... MO retired in 1999, due to disability

      For the same. They brought it from across the river after being blown up by a mine. After the hospital I put almost a box of "horse meat" so that the disability would not be "sealed". It happened in the late 80s. I finished off my retirement at the Ministry of Internal Affairs. But from St. Petersburg he left for Siberia. You say they didn't give you insurance and cheated you with your pension? I have no idea what insurance is. I retrained and work. And I earn. And yes, I'm not special. And what he lived and gained is available to everyone. That's what I'm actually talking about. You just need to sometimes turn on your head and use those financial instruments that the authorities have made for us and be less lazy. I don't listen to any high-profile cases on TV. You can talk about them, having this case in full on your table. Just do not understand you, do you consider the risk of getting a hammer on the head from a youngster so high as not to believe in living up to retirement? It's paranoia ...
      1. Aag
        Aag 14 March 2021 21: 10
        +4
        Quote: Hagen
        Quote: AAG
        No, do you really think that you will not be "dumped"? Are you special?

        Are you sure you must throw it?
        Quote: AAG
        So, for the sincerity of the conversation ... MO retired in 1999, due to disability

        For the same. They brought it from across the river after being blown up by a mine. After the hospital I put almost a box of "horse meat" so that the disability would not be "sealed". It happened in the late 80s. I finished off my retirement at the Ministry of Internal Affairs. But from St. Petersburg he left for Siberia. You say they didn't give you insurance and cheated you with your pension? I have no idea what insurance is. I retrained and work. And I earn. And yes, I'm not special. And what he lived and gained is available to everyone. That's what I'm actually talking about. You just need to sometimes turn on your head and use those financial instruments that the authorities have made for us and be less lazy. I don't listen to any high-profile cases on TV. You can talk about them, having this case in full on your table. Just do not understand you, do you consider the risk of getting a hammer on the head from a youngster so high as not to believe in living up to retirement? It's paranoia ...

        "Are you sure you must throw it?"
        Evaluating the course of events, they will try unambiguously. How will it be in real life, I'm not the messiah .. But there are already a lot of "defeatists in rights"!
        "... They brought it from across the river after being blown up by a mine. After the hospital, I put almost a box of" horse meat "so that the disability would not be" sealed. "In the late 80s, this happened. Before retirement I finished off in the Ministry of Internal Affairs ..."
        hi I take off my hat ... For 17 calendars, 21,5 years of preferential treatment, I have never seen an enemy, not even in sight ... The Strategic Missile Forces, sorry ...
        Further in the text ...
        So I had no time to find out about benefits, preferences, and so on ... It happened so. When I faced the fact, it turned out to be late, I need to sprinkle an application for insurance within a year. (No, those who served less, looked for more benefits, they are ripe).
        The question of disability is still open for me, - it has long been possible to issue the 2nd group (now it is even easier), but will it be any better (yes, I work illegally as long as my health is enough) ...
        "... I finished off my retirement at the Ministry of Internal Affairs ...."
        Many colleagues were forced to walk in the same way, taking into account the years, mostly through the second Chechen ...
        Well, I immediately retired from the Moscow Region, only, as I already wrote, it was cut in half ...
        In the Ministry of Internal Affairs, it was not realistic to find a major position without a bribe. According to the law, they had no right to a lower position. He was a rifleman of the Special Military Operations Department, a cinematographer, a guide, an instructor of service dogs in the OVO of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a teacher of the OVS, and much more ... to the fact that it is not on the couch, not on the neck of the state has not a donkey. I worked a lot officially ... Two parallel labor ... And not officially ... Only here is a hypothetical supplement to the pension (according to printouts from the pension fund), casts doubt on the correctness of this undertaking.
        "... left St. Petersburg for Siberia ..."
        Yes, I left Riga for Chita! No, slowly, of course I am returning ... For 22 years I moved to the west, to Irkutsk ...
        ".... Just do not understand you, do you consider the risk of getting a hammer on the head from a youngster so high that you do not believe in living up to retirement? This is paranoia ..."
        I did not understand correctly. I was talking about the fact that with the emerging attitude towards pensioners (extra people, a burden, the reason for the insufficient well-being of workers, those who did not fit into the market, etc.), NOBODY, who does not plow for the benefit of ... individual, not immune from this!
        There are "positive" examples among my people who got a house, on vacation, at least flies to Thailand, "who kept to the wind and caught the current, away from steep banks" (c) MV.
        There are more "honest" ones who assert - do not ... cheat, - you will not live! "
        So are you okay? Me, -no!
        Well, and returning to the article about pensions ... Yesterday I spoke with my mother. Lives in Riga, 84 years old. Pension of the Russian Federation is about 12.5 thousand rubles (for 25 years of work in a military design organization, with all titles ... with an average technical and two higher educations, a business trip for 3 years to Kamchatka, work in "troubled times" - forgiven). Pension for work as a janitor (about 10 years), for age, in Latvia - 430 euros ... Details are possible, yes! But I’m not tracking the trend from a single source.
        Doesn't it bother you? This is to your question, "they will not throw it."
        They grabbed, they won't let go!
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 14 March 2021 17: 03
    +3
    Quote: Hagen
    And why should retirees be more interesting to someone than to themselves?

    You will find out if you live to see your "retirement". Or already? It looks like you are either an employee of the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation, or an optimist: “It will be, it will not be like that!" FIUs, which should "think" about future retirees.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 15 March 2021 16: 38
      -1
      Quote: Gardener91
      You will find out if you live to see your "retirement".

      I am already a pensioner. And I earn another pension. My program in the NPF will allow me to go on vacation at 60, regardless of any reforms. And, which is typical, it is available to everyone, of course, who wants it.
      Quote: Gardener91
      Well, not learned, not knowledgeable, does not consider it necessary for our person, especially a young one, to think about his own retirement prospects. There is the state, there is the employer and the FIU, which must "think" about future retirees.

      A naive and not far-sighted thought. You need to prepare your own well-being. Then it will be. Again, better than me about myself, no one will take care of me.
      1. Gardener91
        Gardener91 16 March 2021 12: 04
        0
        Quote: Hagen
        I am already a pensioner.

        And I am already a pensioner and have three pensions. Two from the Ministry of Defense, including a social one, but then tears and an earned civil society, from which at 65, if I live, I will receive scanty interest. From the notorious NPF "Lukoil Garant", in the age category of which I fell according to the allegedly announced presidential program until 2010, letters came with notification of the amount of pension savings in this fund. Quite recently I went to the website of this fund and found out that it was not on the "lists". And I wish you success and optimism.
  • ANB
    ANB 14 March 2021 23: 32
    +5
    ... And there is no need here to sing songs about the fact that all of us here are so poor that we cannot save a penny for our future.

    And I'll sing all the same.
    My salary is not the smallest, but there is nothing to save in loans and there is simply nothing to save.
    This does not bother me yet with the term of retirement, since it is already there.
    But living on it is generally unrealistic.
    I'll have to work while I can. Fortunately, now remote people are everywhere, and because of their age, they don't drive me out of my profession.
    But here's the question. Why was it possible in the USSR to pay decent pensions, while study, service and even childcare were counted? And now it doesn’t work. At the same time, social security officers sat in cells, and the PFR sits in palaces with the most sophisticated equipment.
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 14 March 2021 23: 51
      +2
      Quote: ANB
      Why was it possible in the USSR to pay decent pensions, while study, service and even childcare were counted?

      The question is generally rhetorical. Because even the late USSR was a socially oriented state. And the current Russian Federation is an anti-people state, except, of course, for the people of all sorts of Chubais, Abramovich and other "heroes of labor" such as the Rotenbergs.
    2. Hagen
      Hagen 15 March 2021 16: 42
      -1
      Quote: ANB
      My salary is not the smallest, but there is nothing to save in loans and there is simply nothing to save.

      And if you don’t take a loan, but what goes into interest today, put aside in your own savings?
      Quote: ANB
      Why was it possible in the USSR to pay decent pensions, while study, service and even childcare were counted?

      Perhaps that is why, with such enthusiasm, the whole country fled from the socialist USSR to capitalist Russia. Or give an example of how someone resisted? laughing (at home by the refrigerator)
      1. ANB
        ANB 15 March 2021 17: 16
        0
        ... Perhaps that is why, with such enthusiasm, the whole country fled from the socialist USSR to capitalist Russia.

        And who asked us? We were presented with a fact.
        Moreover, the referendum was held for the preservation of the USSR. And no questions were asked about the abolition of socialism.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 15 March 2021 18: 00
          0
          Quote: ANB
          And who asked us? We were presented with a fact.

          I'm embarrassed to ask who, under the tank with the EBN, drove joyful round dances, who rushed under the BMP of the Taman division in a drunken stupor? Those present, of course, are excluded ... The square was full of people, and no one who would be against it. So it is not necessary to shed tears over the fact that they themselves pro ..... fukali.
          If, under the USSR, pensions were decent, and salaries, groceries in stores, and all three layers of super socially protected, then we lived in the USSR today. All these tears for the USSR are idle mythology and nostalgia for the years that have flown away. Moscow alone in the entire RSFSR still more or less lived, and several cities of the 1st category of supply, and all the others at different speeds started up coupons for everything. Even the soap on coupons was, humanitarian, French (for horses), so green in long bars !!! Why this happened is another question, but it was the same.
          1. ANB
            ANB 15 March 2021 18: 17
            +1
            ... Moscow alone in the entire RSFSR lived more or less

            And Moscow alone was for Yeltsin.
            And not all of them. Classic colored. They screwed up the not very smart ones, promised with three boxes and took them to the streets. The same Moscow then transformed into Mmm. There is always a layer that does not want to work, but wants everything at once. And in Moscow, the concentration of such is increased.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 15 March 2021 18: 23
              -1
              Quote: ANB
              There is always a layer that does not want to work, but wants everything at once. And in Moscow, the concentration of such is increased.

              That is the question - why did no one come out against this layer?
            2. ANB
              ANB 15 March 2021 19: 04
              0
              ... That is the question - why did no one come out against this layer?

              This is how normal people worked.
              Kiev, Beijing - all according to the same scenario.
              Only the Chinese had the will to disperse the loafers.
            3. Hagen
              Hagen 15 March 2021 19: 07
              0
              Quote: ANB
              This is how normal people worked.

              There just weren't those who would be against it. Today, everyone here sweetly remembers the USSR, and that is because you do not need to get up from the table for this ...
            4. ANB
              ANB 15 March 2021 19: 41
              0
              ... There just weren't those who were against

              There were. Nobody imagined that it was necessary to go against Yeltsin. But there were many people who supported the State Emergency Committee.
              But the GKchepists themselves merged. And the supporters passed. A revolt of the type against Gorbachev. And then the hunchback himself quietly poured power to Yeltsin and away we go. Stupidly there was no moment when and where it was possible to go out and support socialism and the USSR.
              93D it was no longer the same.
            5. Hagen
              Hagen 15 March 2021 19: 50
              +1
              Quote: ANB
              But the GKchepists themselves merged.

              Today I see no reason to discuss those times, because the past cannot be returned. We have to think about how to survive in the current conditions. But here, judging by the established tradition at VO, everyone is for himself. Usually forums are created so that participants can share ideas, suggestions. After all, in fact, everyone has about the same problems. But local haters did their best to squeeze out everyone who was not ideologically similar to them. You have seen a lot of ideas, tips, recommendations. And once they were present ... I solve my problems, I probably won't share my thoughts.
  • Drugov
    Drugov 16 March 2021 00: 37
    0
    Excuse me, if a person himself has to shape his retirement future, then why does he, or rather his employer, release 22 percent monthly? Why shouldn't he receive this interest on his hands, well, or on a special checking account? What does it mean, the state takes a quarter of the salary for retirement all his life (we take only 22 percent of pension contributions, and at the end a person gets horseradish without butter?
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 16 March 2021 16: 44
      -1
      Quote: Drugov
      and at the exit, a person gets horseradish without oil

      You were offered this "horseradish" when applying for a job? Why did you go to such a "shitty" job? However, the useless rassoling of the topic, when there is no concept of who pays whose money where ... All your salary is listed in your employment contract. Who and how takes a quarter of it from you, then you have to ask. From there, only 13% of personal income tax is withheld ...
      1. Drugov
        Drugov 16 March 2021 17: 16
        +1
        I am an employer. I pay 30 percent for my employees, and for some, within the framework of the agreement, all 43 percent. And I do this with great pleasure, because I understand that there is no guarantee that this money is used correctly and for its intended purpose. Most likely, those people for whom I pay today will not be able to rely on retirement at all.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 16 March 2021 18: 33
          0
          Quote: Drugov
          And I do it with great pleasure

          Not all duties under the law cause joy and tenderness. Especially when it comes to donation of funds.
          1. Drugov
            Drugov 16 March 2021 19: 56
            +1
            Yes, such duties as it does not even come to mind, but these transfers to the state for dubious machinations and feeding all these PFR servants, as it is very annoying.
        2. Hagen
          Hagen 16 March 2021 18: 38
          0
          Quote: Drugov
          I pay for my employees 30 percent, and for some, as part of the agreement, all 43

          Obviously the difference is related to the type of contract, GPC or labor?
          Quote: Drugov
          Most likely, those people for whom I pay today will not be able to rely on retirement at all.

          Let me be curious, from what did you draw such conclusions? Today, thank God, pensions are paid in full and on time, not like in the 90s.
          1. Drugov
            Drugov 16 March 2021 19: 52
            +1
            I draw my conclusions from the events that have taken place around pension obligations over the past few years. There are several unsuccessful reforms and a freeze of the funded part and an increase in the retirement age and promises of indexation and other indirect factors that suggest that the state in every possible way brings us to the understanding that pension is an atavism and gradually, given the servility of civil society that is not able to defend its rights this good will disappear altogether.
  • Zaits
    Zaits 16 March 2021 11: 49
    0
    Quote: Hagen
    A person who, at the age of forty, has thought about a pension, may well provide it for himself by the age of 60 and leave for it as a desire or need arises.


    Name at least one relatively affordable financial instrument that will allow you to do this without the risk of being robbed by our state.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 16 March 2021 16: 48
      0
      Quote: Zaits
      Name at least one relatively affordable financial instrument that will allow you to do this without the risk of being robbed by our state.

      There are no tools without risk. But there are risks insured. So they can be considered from the point of view of a possible investment. Each subject has a lot of pension programs. Read on. Find savvy financiers who can explain questions you do not understand.
      1. Zaits
        Zaits 17 March 2021 00: 54
        0
        Quote: Hagen
        Each subject has a lot of pension programs. Read on. Find smart financiers who can explain questions you do not understand.


        If you are talking about NPFs, then no self-respecting financier will predict the state of your savings in NPFs in 10 ... 20 years. In comparable terms, essno. With the current practice of financial regulation in Russia, this is simply impossible. The risks of losing a significant part of savings are such that they will shock you anyway. The established practice simply implies this. And no insurance program will protect you from the actions of the state that will do it.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 17 March 2021 12: 08
          0
          Quote: Zaits
          The established practice simply implies this. And no insurance program will protect you from the actions of the state that will do it.

          Once Banionis said about faith in God: "Everyone believes. Some believe that God exists, others that he does not exist. Neither one nor the other is provable." You believe that the state is asleep and sees how to deceive you (that is, all of us), I do not share your faith. Life will judge. In the meantime, according to the experience of people who are already using these tools, I see no reason to build conspiracy forecasts. As long as I see that in three or four years my second pension will be equal to the first, and with this it will be possible to calmly go towards contemplating other people's passions. But you have the right to believe what you believe. Good luck to you...
          1. Zaits
            Zaits 18 March 2021 00: 05
            0
            Quote: Hagen
            Do you believe that the state is asleep and sees how to deceive you (i.e. us all)


            What does faith have to do with it? The established practice of financial regulation, taxation, state participation in social issues, etc. has very specific objective numerical indicators. And these indicators are characteristic of a fairly wild capitalism. While maintaining this practice, all these indicators are easily approximated. And I just voiced the conclusions of such an approximation. I was not even too lazy to evaluate something roughly. If the practice does not change, with a forecasting horizon of 10 ... 15 years, they will easily be cut by half. Even with an optimistic scenario. In comparable terms, essno.

            Quote: Hagen
            Until I see that in three or four years my second pension will be


            Today and for 3 ... 4 months it is sometimes difficult to predict anything. And the vulnerability of the mechanism of work of NPFs, like all funds of this type, is quite high, especially during periods of economic and political turbulence. Well, our management practice also brings non-acidity. In other words, your vision of your pension in 3-4 years does not differ too much from the vision of your future income by participants in financial pyramids. Millions of people who went bankrupt during the mortgage crisis in the United States also thought that they were not getting a drop. And how beautiful they painted everything ...

            This is the market, my friend. And in our case, this is a rather wild market.

            Another question is that the wild market is not a sentence yet. There are tools that are better than NPFs, and they work quite well even in wild markets.
            The problem is that these tools are not available to everyone.
            However, this is already a separate and difficult topic.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 18 March 2021 16: 15
              0
              Quote: Zaits
              Well, our management practice also brings non-acidity. In other words, your vision of your pension in 3-4 years does not differ too much from the vision of your future income by participants in financial pyramids. Millions of people who went bankrupt during the mortgage crisis in the United States also thought that they were not dripping. And how beautiful they painted everything ...

              These mantras, as an excuse for my own inaction, I have been hearing for ten years. And as time goes on, people retire and receive it, including from NPFs. And those who are accustomed to only reasoning suddenly find themselves on the "beans" with unfulfilled forecasts. It would be more interesting to hear about the instruments mentioned but not disclosed. What do you use yourself?
  • kapitan92
    kapitan92 14 March 2021 21: 29
    +4
    Quote: Bearded
    Putin is not interested in pensioners, consumables.


    hi
  • bk316
    bk316 15 March 2021 00: 51
    -1
    Last year, Russia took the "honorable" first place in suicide among pensioners.

    First among whom?
  • Alexilyin
    Alexilyin 15 March 2021 11: 42
    -1
    In order for the ball to burst, you need to poke a needle into it. hi
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 14 March 2021 05: 00
    +15
    In theory, I have years of work to retire earlier. Then, whenever ... But, honestly, I am very afraid of going to all these funds! God knows what else they will come up with during these working years remaining for me!
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 14 March 2021 07: 46
      +9
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I am very afraid of going to all these funds!
      That's what it is designed for. Everything for people.
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 14 March 2021 10: 34
      +20
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      then, whenever .... But, honestly, I am very afraid of going to all these funds! God knows what else they will come up with during these working years remaining for me!

      It is necessary to disperse the pension fund., Sov. Fed. and Duma.
      Your time is over. ”And one of the intruders, touching his pennies, announced something simple and uncomplicated:“ I, chairman of the Revolutionary Military Committee Antonov, declare the Provisional Government deposed. ”V. Mayakovsky.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 14 March 2021 11: 29
        -16%
        Quote: Stroporez
        It is necessary to disperse the pension fund., Sov. Fed. and Duma.

        In-in !!! And to destroy the little that is still left .... Gorgeous idea! Well, they dispersed, and then what? Is there an action plan with a list of the names of people who can be assigned the tasks whose performers you are going to disperse? It should be understood that if Russia weaken for the slightest time and engage in "Maidanism", a single state will turn into 85 territories hostile to each other. The United States will not make mistakes for the second time, as in the 90s. Be sure.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 14 March 2021 12: 42
          +25
          Quote: Hagen
          Well, they dispersed, and then what?

          Roll up our sleeves and rebuild a new country and we have everything for this, and hands, and resources, and brains.
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 14 March 2021 13: 03
            -9
            Quote: Stroporez
            Roll up our sleeves and rebuild a new country and we have everything for this, and hands, and resources, and brains.

            With such thoughts, you cannot even gather people at the entrance for a clean-up day with such thoughts. Some kind of childish babble, sorry ...
          2. bk316
            bk316 15 March 2021 01: 03
            -1
            Roll up our sleeves and rebuild a new country and we have everything for this, and hands, and resources, and brains.

            Well, I don’t know about hands, but if you really think that it’s enough to disperse the FIU and the Duma, then it’s just a problem with brains. Well, let's try turning them on. Thought experiment. We woke up in the morning and there is no more thought, the FIU and the Federation Council. In principle, by the way, this is a completely possible situation. Now think about how your life will improve or worsen from this. The next day, a week after a month after a year. Well, of course, on the first day you will get drunk with joy. And in a week you will understand that NOTHING HAS CHANGED in your life. In a month, VO will begin to write about the fact that pensions are not being charged for new pensioners - there is no PFR ... In a year, everything will somehow settle down and you will whine on. Well, you can roll up your sleeves.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 14 March 2021 12: 57
          +11
          Quote: Hagen
          And destroy the little that is still left ...

          How can you destroy what has already been destroyed? Russia has gone through 5 pension reforms! And where is the result? The situation resembles the construction of a castle on the sand by the hands of Dzhamshudov-. Only he will fix the situation
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 14 March 2021 13: 06
            -10%
            Quote: Silvestr
            How can you destroy what has already been destroyed?

            Sit in Moscow and moan about the collapse ?! Not tired yet?
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 14 March 2021 14: 52
              +7
              Quote: Hagen
              Sit in Moscow and moan about the collapse ?!

              in your opinion, I don’t leave Moscow and don’t see what is happening in the regions?
              Quote: Hagen
              Not tired yet?

              ernichat laughing
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 14 March 2021 15: 01
                -10%
                Quote: Silvestr
                in your opinion, I don’t leave Moscow and don’t see what is happening in the regions?

                If you get invited to work a couple of times a week, I can imagine where you go ... But that's not the point. You live and receive a salary with a pension in Moscow. And therefore it is not for you to moan that you feel bad. Obviously you just love it. God forbid me to get to such a doctor ... Judging by the minuses, you, such sad and moaning two-thirds of the VO ... laughing
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 15 March 2021 12: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Hagen
                  If you are invited to work a couple of times a week, I can imagine where you go ...

                  I am not invited, but I have to walk because of my pension of 16 thousand. Since myocardial infarction was removed twice in the last 6 months, I will have to walk only 3 times a month - the safety margin is exhausted. Where I go, where and everything, to my small homeland, to relatives. It is forbidden?

                  Quote: Hagen
                  You live and receive a salary with a pension in Moscow. And therefore it is not for you to moan that you feel bad.

                  Envy is a great sin. Take away my salary (and it will soon disappear) and live on 16 thousand. Is that a lot or a little?
                  Quote: Hagen
                  God forbid me to get to such a doctor ...

                  Don't get hit laughing
                  But Sobyanin and the head physician disagree with you, well, they won't let me go to full retirement - they create all the conditions for me, just don't leave request
                  Quote: Hagen
                  Judging by the minuses, you, such sad and moaning two-thirds of the VO ...

                  You are mistaken, this is 2/3 walking on the ground, unlike soaring in the sky
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 15 March 2021 16: 52
                    0
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    forced to go because of a pension of 16 thousand.

                    In Moscow, the pension standard is 19. The minimum wage for doctors starts from 500-60 thousand per rate. Don't you "drive" for an hour?
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Envy is a great sin.

                    Me your moans and envy - that's a sin laughing

                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 15 March 2021 19: 23
                      +3
                      Quote: Hagen
                      In Moscow, the pension standard is 19. The minimum wage for doctors starts from 500-60 thousand per rate

                      Come see a psychiatrist with your dreams, racer and Dunno
                      1. Hagen
                        Hagen 15 March 2021 19: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        See a psychiatrist

                        What, do not pull the standard? Of the recently "come in large numbers"? laughing
                        "... The pension for Muscovites who have lived in the city for over 10 years is set according to separate standards. According to them, in 2020 the lower limit is set at 19 rubles ...."
                        Source: https://zarabotatdoma.ru/minimalnaya-pensiya-v-moskve
                        We will also continue the implementation of the most important social projects started before the pandemic, - said the Moscow Mayor during his annual report to the deputies of the Moscow City Duma. - From January 1, the minimum amount of pensions with city supplements will be increased to 20 rubles per month. Child benefits and social benefits for the older generation will be indexed. " (Official website of the Mayor of Moscow)
                      2. New Year day
                        New Year day 15 March 2021 19: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Hagen
                        According to them, in 2020 the lower limit is set at 19 rubles .... "

                        And how many workers do they have?
        3. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 13: 10
          +6
          Quote: Silvestr
          Only he will fix the situation

          Eh, in a country that once occupied the first places in the production of heavy equipment, now there are no bulldozers of its own ... crying
          1. Free wind
            Free wind 14 March 2021 14: 23
            0
            What kind of bulldozers were there? If it `s not a secret. DET-250 so it was a curse and not a tractor. T-ЗЗ0 Cheboksary Tractor, launched in about 85. Heavy bulldozers were purchased from 65-75 years. American, Italian, Japanese, we did not have such machines, and only they saved on the permafrost.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 14: 30
              +3
              Quote: Free Wind
              launched around 85

              In 75. wink
              And the list of tractors and tractor plants (now closed) is publicly available, and it is easy to find by request "tractors of the USSR".
              1. Free wind
                Free wind 14 March 2021 17: 41
                0
                You mentioned heavy bulldozers. I told you that we do not have such. We bought bulldozers weighing over 50 tons. Well, up to 110 tons. Well, about how many factories there were and what tractors they produced, I already know. And he worked for many. Only here it was not at all exotic. Well, like cotton pickers. Or for tea plantations.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 17: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Free Wind
                  You said about heavy bulldozers

                  I spoke in general about heavy equipment. request But I don’t argue with you, we really bought a narrow range of equipment. But the bulk was still produced by ourselves, which cannot be said about now.
                  1. bk316
                    bk316 15 March 2021 01: 10
                    0
                    But I don’t argue with you, we really bought a narrow range of equipment.

                    Not narrow, the hagen correctly wrote to you about the oil industry everything heavy - all pipelines were laid by caterpillars or do you think Kirov people? So he does not walk on the frozen ground laughing And you minus it for the truth. A shame. The USSR does not need such defenders, it collapsed from them. am
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 15 March 2021 12: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: bk316
                      you minus it for the truth. A shame

                      For your information, I'm not minus anyone at all. It's a shame for you for slandering for no reason. laughing And look for the thickness of the ruler in Google, as a percentage. wink
                    2. bk316
                      bk316 15 March 2021 12: 37
                      -2
                      For your information, I'm not minus anyone at all.

                      Do you see "you" with a small letter? And I still dignify you and Storoporez with a capital letter. But the fact remains the fact that the hagen will pass for the truth - the main pipelines of the USSR were not made by our technology. And the pipes were not ours either. This is now the Russian Federation makes pipes itself, but the USSR could not, that is, in principle, could create a production, but preferred to buy. laughing Gap pattern? belay But this is a fact.
                    3. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 15 March 2021 20: 29
                      0
                      Quote: bk316
                      You "with a small letter see

                      Did you answer me, or did you all the opponents in bulk? wink
                      Quote: bk316
                      But the fact remains the fact that hagen will be passed over for the truth -

                      Since when did the closeness and pro-government position become true? belay Guys, you argue with facts, you seem smarter. wink
                    4. bk316
                      bk316 16 March 2021 13: 17
                      0
                      Did you answer me, or did you all the opponents in bulk? wink

                      In a crowd, of course, you are all in a crowd.
                      Since when did the closeness and pro-government position become true

                      The truth about the fact that in the USSR there was a problem with heavy construction equipment and he (the USSR) did not scream about "everything was lost", but bought this equipment from the damned capitalists. Specifically, we are talking about the construction of pipelines. And if for YOU (this is already personally) the truth is divided into ordinary and pro-government, which must be hushed up by all possible means, then for this word "you" I will write with MAAAAlenka letter.
                    5. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 16 March 2021 14: 05
                      +1
                      Quote: bk316
                      In a crowd of course, you are all in a crowd

                      Strange you - answer me for everyone, but I'm not in the subject at all.
                      Quote: bk316
                      The truth about the fact that in the USSR there was a problem with heavy construction equipment

                      With a VERY narrow ruler, which I wrote about.
                    6. bk316
                      bk316 16 March 2021 14: 16
                      0
                      Strange you - answer me for everyone, but I'm not in the subject at all.

                      With a VERY narrow ruler, which I wrote about.

                      How is it out of topic?


                      You are arguing, although you are wrong. As a result, you have a wrong +6, a right hagen -21. Probably all because of the "pro-government position" of Hagen?
                      True, she is my friend alone. And if you start to consider it from the point of view of political preferences, then you are just an anti-state propagandist ...
                    7. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 16 March 2021 17: 44
                      0
                      Quote: bk316
                      How is it out of topic?

                      Another hard one! laughing Not in the subject of cons! wink
                      Quote: bk316
                      You are arguing, although you are wrong. As a result, you have a wrong +6, a right hagen -21.

                      What is wrong? May I have the facts?
                      Also, don't you find this imbalance between my +6 and his -21 strange?
                    8. bk316
                      bk316 18 March 2021 15: 54
                      0
                      Also, don't you find this imbalance between my +6 and his -21 strange?

                      It seems because it should be the other way around
                      It is wrong that in the USSR with heavy construction equipment (specifically used in the construction of pipelines) it was better than now.
                    9. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 18 March 2021 17: 24
                      0
                      Quote: bk316
                      It is wrong that in the USSR with heavy construction equipment (specifically used in the construction of pipelines)

                      And what is wrong? Under the Soviet Union, there was none, but there was a technique in this area, now it is not at all. Is this not worse in your opinion? And if you do not run into pipelayers, but take the heavy equipment market as a whole (which I initially talked about), then again Hagen is right? lol
  • Aag
    Aag 14 March 2021 18: 12
    +1
    Quote: Free Wind
    You mentioned heavy bulldozers. I told you that we do not have such. We bought bulldozers weighing over 50 tons. Well, up to 110 tons. Well, about how many factories there were and what tractors they produced, I already know. And he worked for many. Only here it was not at all exotic. Well, like cotton pickers. Or for tea plantations.

    In part, I have to agree with you. Not about bulldozers, - "Tatras", "Magiruses" were in the price, with reservations about the discipline of operation (which was, at times, difficult to implement under the Soviet Union).
    But you, too, please, do not deny either the walking excavators or the record-breaking quarry workers from Belaz.
    If, of course, you do not aim to convince the youth that in the USSR, there is really nothing but galoshes ...
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 14 March 2021 17: 51
    +22
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    And the list of tractors and tractor plants (now closed) is publicly available, and it is easy to find by request "tractors of the USSR".

    Bro, We won't prove anything to them
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 14 March 2021 18: 03
    +21
    Quote: Free Wind
    American, Italian, Japanese, we did not have such machines, and only they saved on the permafrost.

    You lie, how you breathe, but I don't understand why?
    And "Kirovets" is not a tractor?
    When was the first time in your life that you saw something Japanese in the Soviet Union?
    I'm all a student. he spent his youth in mechanized detachments, mainly T40 and T-150.
    Are you sure they are Japanese? Or do you have a tongue without bones?
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 14 March 2021 22: 54
      +1
      hi
      Quote: Stroporez
      You lie, how you breathe, but I don't understand why?

      In the north, my father worked as a foreman, the pipelines were pulled in the late 80s, there were a lot of heavy Japanese tractors, bulldozers and pipelayers. Domestic similar special equipment was much worse.
      Quote: Stroporez
      And "Kirovets" is not a tractor?

      Kirov workers are welders, wagons, etc. there they dragged, and the heavy Japanese equipment was mainly Komatsu and Inzuki.
  • Hagen
    Hagen 14 March 2021 15: 05
    -10%
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    in a country that once occupied the first places in the production of heavy equipment, now there are no bulldozers of its own ...

    The USSR raised the entire oil industry on the Katharpillers and Komatsu. In addition, Chetra and Uraltrak still produce as many bulldozers as they buy. They will buy more, do more. You shouldn't have buried them.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 15: 22
      +6
      Quote: Hagen
      The USSR raised the entire oil industry on Katharpillers and Komatsu

      That latna ?!belay
      The book "Tractor Evolution" will help you.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 14 March 2021 15: 29
        -11%
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        That latna ?!
        The book "Tractor Evolution" will help you.

        I live here. Why do I need your book? The skeletons of the sunken equipment still stick out in places.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 15: 38
          +8
          Quote: Hagen
          Why do I need your book?

          Do you need figures for the production, export / import of tractors, or do you just want to shout in tune with Putin, who claims that nothing but galoshes was produced in the USSR? wink
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 14 March 2021 15: 45
            -9
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            You need production numbers

            You wrote earlier
            Eh, in a country that once occupied the first places in the production of heavy equipment, now there are no bulldozers of its own ... crying

            The answer is: at the end of 2018, 7 tractors were produced in Russia, which is about 836% less than in 3,3. Of these, agricultural tractors 2017 6 units. (-728%), and industrial tractors - 4,8 units. (+ 1%).
            On my own I will add that there will be effective demand within the country, and I will start producing more than previously shown. There is simply no need to supply Africa and Southeast Asia with equipment for free, as in the USSR. In addition, I know firsthand how sometimes the plan for ChTZ was "driven" in the late 70s, hammering the bolts with a sledgehammer laughing The number of issues is not always equal to technological excellence.
            1. Liam
              Liam 14 March 2021 15: 53
              +5
              Quote: Hagen
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              You need production numbers

              You wrote earlier
              Eh, in a country that once occupied the first places in the production of heavy equipment, now there are no bulldozers of its own ... crying

              The answer is: by the end of 2018 7 836 tractors were produced in Russia, which is about 3,3% less compared to 2017. Of these, agricultural tractors 6 728 units. (-4,8%), and industrial tractors - 1 units. (+ 108%).
              On my own I will add that there will be effective demand within the country, and I will start producing more than previously shown. There is simply no need to supply Africa and Southeast Asia with equipment for free, as in the USSR. In addition, I know firsthand how sometimes the plan for ChTZ was "driven" in the late 70s, hammering the bolts with a sledgehammer laughing The number of issues is not always equal to technological excellence.

              According to the SeaNews TSVT service, in 2019 import of tractors to Russia amounted to 90,5 thousand units (-18,2% to 2018) in physical terms or $ 1,3 billion (-20,1%) in monetary terms.

              In 2019, tractors came to Russia from 25 countries. At the same time, the leaders in terms of supplies were Belarus, the Netherlands and China. Most of the deliveries were made to Moscow and the Moscow region.

              Imports of tractors to Russia from China at the end of 2019 in physical terms decreased by 31,6% to 45,8 thousand units, in monetary terms, on the contrary, there was an increase by 9,6% to 38,7 million dollars. Most of the deliveries were for tractors driven by a nearby driver. The equipment was mainly sent to Moscow, Perm Territory, Moscow and Tula regions.

              Belarus received 27,6 thousand tractors (+ 28,4%) in the amount of $ 281,3 million (+ 4,1%). Almost all imports were delivered to the Vologda and Moscow regions, as well as to Tatarstan and the Stavropol Territory.

              Imports from the Netherlands in physical terms increased by 24,3% to 4,6 thousand tractors, in monetary terms - by 24,8% to 317,9 million dollars. The equipment mainly went to the Moscow region and Moscow


              https://seanews.ru/2020/04/29/ru-import-traktorov-v-2019-godu-snizilsja/

            2. Hagen
              Hagen 14 March 2021 16: 10
              -8
              Quote: Liam
              Imports of tractors to Russia from China at the end of 2019 in physical terms decreased by 31,6% to 45,8 thousand units, in monetary terms, on the contrary, there was an increase by 9,6% to 38,7 million dollars.

              I understand correctly that 45 units were imported for a total of $ 800. the average unit price is $ 38? laughing Probably some very small tractors laughing
            3. Liam
              Liam 14 March 2021 16: 40
              +5
              Quote: Hagen
              Probably some very small tractors

              You have less than vague knowledge of tractors and their markets.

              while deliveries of small tractors of 0,6–0,9 traction classes from Japan and China were carried out in maximum volumes, and in significantly smaller quantities of tractors of medium and high traction classes from France, the USA and Germany (Table 7).

              According to the nominal tractive effort, agricultural forestry tractors are divided into ten traction classes, and industrial and forestry tractors - into eight. Bulldozers are divided into four classes (traction classes).

              Currently, it is customary to distinguish seventeen thrust classes, which cover the entire technique.
            4. Hagen
              Hagen 14 March 2021 19: 06
              -5
              Quote: Liam
              You have less than vague knowledge of tractors and their markets

              You're right. I don't sell tractors. When asked about bulldozers, I would not even think of giving statistics on self-propelled lawn mowers for 10-20 kW. But statistics are statistics. Taking off my hat. Although it does not contradict my figures.
        2. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 15 March 2021 14: 09
          0
          Most of the deliveries were for tractors driven by a nearby driver.

          This is not a tractor !!!
          This miracle is called a walk-behind tractor! And 90% of the rest of the Chinese tractors in the Russian Federation - to plow the dacha and no more.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 14 March 2021 18: 24
    +20
    Quote: Hagen
    I live here. Why do I need your book? The skeletons of the sunken equipment still stick out in places.

    well, you and a troll.
    You just have to write that the USSR produced shitty tanks, Sputnik invented Japs, and Uzi is better than Kalashmat belay
    at the time when Igor and I registered here, you would have flown into the skull in half an hour fellow laughing
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 15 March 2021 17: 04
      0
      Quote: Stroporez
      at the time when Igor and I registered here, you would have flown into the skull in half an hour

      Judging by the way you remember the river, you must be about 50? By this time, it's time to change diapers for adult pants .... "you would-I would" - some kind of kindergarten request You would say something useful. And what I write about is not for you to tell. You already here and so with your "dung fan" and "politeness" scared away all normal members of the forum.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 16 March 2021 20: 31
        +19
        Quote: Hagen
        You already here and so with your "dung fan" and "politeness" scared away all normal members of the forum.

        I'm still ashamed to ask, who are you? And what "normal" ones did you come up with? If Normal, then here
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 16 March 2021 21: 38
        0
        Quote: Stroporez
        If Normal, then here

        And what is "here"? Hiding behind Rosenbaum? Do not confuse sour with soft. You are not the only one with sand in your teeth. Whom did you want to surprise? How does your video relate to the topic? Want to point out where the "normal" ones are? So I'll tell you - not only there. I will say more, the scum and there were exactly the same share as elsewhere in the country. Although, I have already written everything to you, and with every word you answer I see that I have not missed.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 16: 20
    +7
    Quote: Hagen
    will do more.

    Of course they will. And we, the "architects", will drink seagulls in the office with a portrait of Putin and draw the facade of the next pension fund.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 14 March 2021 16: 25
      -9
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      And we, "architects", in the office with a portrait of Putin, will drink seagulls

      To your health! Drink at least tea, even kakavu. Yes, you can draw whatever you want ...
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 16: 33
        +4
        Quote: Hagen
        Drink at least tea, even kakavu. Yes, you can draw whatever you want ...

        This is me about you. I hope that you will die of your oncology before you reach retirement.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 14 March 2021 19: 02
          -2
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Hope you get bogged down by your oncology,

          You have demonstrated this:
          and. that you are worse than a Bandera censor. Although they wish death to citizens of a hostile (as they believe) state, you - to a citizen of your country. This is how all the dissidents will die, who will you stay with?
          b. stupider than those who are from the censor, because they wrote and posted their wishes in the public space.
          But I forgive you (today is such a day), as a creature that has lived, but has not acquired a mind, and I wish you health .... Just remove the cross from your neck (if you wear it). Yet the death wish is a sin ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 19: 22
            +4
            Quote: Hagen
            Yet the death wish is a sin ...

            Well, live happily ever after, I'd rather be bent over from all your disgusting reforms to get me off my knees.
          2. Hagen
            Hagen 15 March 2021 17: 05
            0
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Well, live happily ever after, I'd rather be bent over from all your foul reforms

            Don't strain yourself. You have already told everything about yourself ...
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 14 March 2021 18: 29
    +18
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Of course they will. And we, the "architects", will drink seagulls in the office with a portrait of Putin and draw the facade of the next pension fund.

    Volodya, today is such a beautiful day that to burn a scarecrow = this is to give a debt to the Motherland wink
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 19: 25
      +4
      Today everyone must be understood and forgiven.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 16 March 2021 20: 46
    +18
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Of course they will. And we, the "architects", will drink seagulls in the office with a portrait of Putin and draw the facade of the next pension fund.

    My friend, drinking "seagulls" with those who are killing the Motherland is probably not out of our hands, so the PC.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 14 March 2021 22: 58
    +2
    Quote: Hagen
    The USSR raised the entire oil industry on the Katharpillers and Komatsu.

    Good to chat. They were partly heavy special equipment and that was all. Domestic similar equipment was the same, but somewhat easier, therefore, when possible, they used their technique.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 14 March 2021 16: 43
    -5
    "Eh, in a country that once occupied the first places in the production of heavy equipment." Yes, tens of thousands of tanks were produced like everything else, and they distributed all this to half of the world for free. Is ChTZ not bulldozers?
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 17: 20
      +5
      Quote: Vadim237
      Is ChTZ not bulldozers?

      Market share of bulldozers in Russia? wink
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 14 March 2021 16: 41
    -5
    "It is necessary to disperse the pension fund., The Soviet. Fed. And the Duma." I, the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Committee Antonov, declare the Provisional Government deposed. " the rest of the state funds have disappeared and all state property is sold out or squeezed out in favor of new private individuals - in your interests, no one will do anything, since everyone is pursuing their own pocket goals.
  • apro
    apro 14 March 2021 05: 11
    +27
    To discuss bourgeois reforms. To look for some signs in them in improving the well-being of the population. Is meaningless. Not for that purpose the bourgeois took power. To infringe upon themselves. For this there is a population.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 14 March 2021 07: 42
      -22%
      Quote: apro
      for this there is a population. who, having watched enough TV, will react with understanding to everything they say.

      Someone watches our TV, and someone prefers to watch and listen to TV from over the hill. Guess three times: who is for Russia, and who is for the interests of our enemies?

      Management is an informational process. What information we receive, we do such actions. You are not happy with the increase in the retirement age, by the way - I am the same, but you are also unhappy with the measures to overcome this. Do you want radical changes, return everything as it was? I do not mind, but with the current, pro-Western composition of the Duma, this is simply not possible.

      ps
      You can watch our TV and theirs, but you just don't need to listen to the announcers (their opinion) and you will have an adequate perception of the information, thanks to which "our" opinion is formed.
      1. apro
        apro 14 March 2021 07: 55
        +11
        Quote: Boris55
        Guess three times: who is for Russia, and who is for the interests of our enemies?

        The question is not posed correctly. For the opportunity to extract profits from the territory of the Russian Federation. As well as for a share of profits. The enemies of the Russian Federation want those wishlist of those who are in favor. are united in one. the share of financial resources for the population should be reduced. there is nothing to spend the owner's money on anything ...
        Quote: Boris55
        Do you want radical changes, return everything as it was?

        Today it is not possible. There is no resource, either human or ideological.
        Quote: Boris55
        I do not mind, but with the current, pro-Western composition of the Duma, this is simply not possible.

        I agree. Yes, and the dumka does not solve such questions in principle. They do not sit at the feeding for this.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 14 March 2021 07: 59
          -16%
          Quote: apro
          the share of financial resources for the population should be reduced. there is nothing to spend the owner's money on anything ...

          I do not quite understand here. Are you saying that the more people are sent to retire, the more profit the bourgeois will have?
          1. apro
            apro 14 March 2021 08: 06
            +14
            Quote: Boris55
            Are you saying that the more people are sent to retire, the more profit the bourgeois will have?

            To retire ???? after raising the retirement age ??? and even these populist early retirements will not improve the situation.
            The real purchasing power of a pension is falling every year, and all these increases are not able to compensate for this, which means that the bourgeois will have more profits.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 14 March 2021 08: 25
              -17%
              Quote: apro
              These populist early exits will not improve the situation.

              Ask those affected about it.

              Inflation is an integral part of capitalism. The more we earn, the more inflation. It is necessary so that the dream, which is hammered into your head, that the more you work, the faster you can become a millionaire and do nothing, never come true.
              1. apro
                apro 14 March 2021 08: 29
                +9
                Quote: Boris55
                Ask those affected about it.

                Especially those who did not live to see retirement ..
                Quote: Boris55
                Inflation is an integral part of capitalism.

                One of the methods of making a profit from the population without straining too much.
              2. lucul
                lucul 14 March 2021 09: 26
                +1
                Inflation is an integral part of capitalism.

                This is an integral part of the loan interest. It is the lending interest that creates fiat money.
                Natural inflation is when half of your country (economy) is suddenly destroyed by a natural disaster or war. In this case, the amount of money in the country does not correspond to the amount of goods or services that were suddenly lost.
                1. bk0010
                  bk0010 14 March 2021 09: 59
                  +2
                  Quote: lucul
                  This is an integral part of the loan interest. It is the lending interest that creates fiat money.
                  Europe now has negative bank rates, zero credit, and is struggling with deflation there.
              3. Aag
                Aag 14 March 2021 18: 33
                0
                "... Inflation is an integral part of capitalism. The more we earn, the more inflation ...."
                Doctoral topic, and half a thousand term papers ...
                "It is necessary so that the dream that is hammered into my head that the more you work, the faster you can become a millionaire and do nothing ..."
                Well, here you can limit yourself to a test in Russian, a test task in logic ...
                Sorry for the banter, Boris, - in the end, forgiven Sunday ... But really, what did you want to refute, confirm, say - in terms of discussion? It seems that they did not say anything, but there are enough disagreements with you (13- minuses, mine is not ... - did not understand you ..).
            2. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 14 March 2021 09: 43
              +3
              I agree at retirement it was if after a dollar 400, now a little less than 300.
              1. Aag
                Aag 14 March 2021 18: 48
                +1
                Quote: tralflot1832
                I agree at retirement it was if after a dollar 400, now a little less than 300.

                It is worth taking into account the inflation of the dollar ... (by the way, everyone can minus just for the level of pensions, - to many, and this is not available. And many of them did not realize that low, small, unfair pensions are not due to the fact that You are like that, but because someone just got insolent). ((((.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 10: 40
        +6
        Quote: Boris55
        Guess three times: who is for Russia, and who is for the interests of our enemies?

        Boris, what can you say about the people who invest practically all foreign exchange earnings from the sale of resources in the securities of those countries to whom these resources are sold? wink And inside the country they stupidly print money, spurring inflation?
        How do you like the scheme of divorce?
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 14 March 2021 12: 07
          -5
          Norebo's company invests in the development of production in Russia. The revenue is a little less than $ 1 billion. And the owner is a fine fellow, although he could have lived comfortably abroad for a long time by selling his funds. You just can't get a job there, you need to have knowledge and hands on your shoulders. The largest fishing company in Russia, Murmansk. The capital earned money without attracting government funds. He started in the 90s, having graduated from the Murmansk Higher Sailor, without acquaintances.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 12: 31
            +4
            Quote: tralflot1832
            Norebo is investing in the development of production in Russia

            What kind of production? belay Most of the ships are not built at our shipyards, the catch mostly goes over the hill, the proceeds are offshore. Since 2018, the firm has been in a fever, searches in offices, a court in London. Yes, and the Russian company can be called a stretch.
            And how does this firm stand in the direction of printing money and withdrawing government funds abroad?
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 14 March 2021 12: 49
              -3
              We lost the construction of fishing vessels, the last Pulkovo Meridians were handed over to us by the Ukrainians in 15 year. We had to work on the old fund from the USSR and used foreign cars. Now they are building ships, 10 units in Russia according to the Norwegian Icelandic project, and what to do if they are ahead of the whole planet. But they are building in Russia, and this is the main thing. He is building a mooring stevedore complex in Murmansk to remove one intermediary on the sea-population line. 400 people will work on it. So not everything is so bad. There is one rogue, by the way, convicted of corruption. Cope, he has support.
              1. Aag
                Aag 14 March 2021 19: 08
                +2
                Somehow you look like a small town ...
                I justify, - you are caring for the industry which you gave the best years ((. Only now it is not in the interests of the hard workers. You can of course look at the volume of state investments in the region. Only this, rather, will characterize the level of protectionism and corruption ... Sorry ... In the last time, often so. Yes, even the return to the budget, with modern statistics, is not like Soviet reports. You can enjoy the "unprecedented export of grain" for as long as you like ... Until you come to the store for bread. About fish, seafood I am silent .. .No, well, remember the hype in the media two or three years ago, when the law on fishing was passed noisily! For citizens (?), Fish will fall in price, yelling, twice! Skeptics said -2%. "Enemies of the people" -30%.
                What do we see? How much is a plus?
                You shouldn't expect ANY improvements ... (((
            2. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 14 March 2021 13: 13
              +21
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              And how does this firm stand in the direction of printing money and withdrawing government funds abroad?

              there will be no normal answer, but the detsky babble is quite.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 13: 21
                +2
                Greetings buddy! hi
                Quote: Stroporez
                there will be no normal answer

                And for zaputintsy it is according to the manual, little by little to tear up, and pull the opponent off the topic.
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 14 March 2021 13: 45
                  +21
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  for zaputins it is according to the training manual,

                  Greetings, Brother! soldier drinks
                  litter-tv drives lol Grudinin is a thief, Lyokha is an agent of the Gas Department, Platoshkin is the Kremlin's project, Shaman is minted, you and I are the 125th convoy, and Vova is a maladec.
                  Shl. I wonder if I'm the only one who wants him to just die? if he'd take the proto and die, why would he feel sorry for that? what crying
                  A box of vodka and a festive fireworks are waiting in the garage.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 13: 56
                    +3
                    Quote: Stroporez
                    one who just wants him to die?

                    Too easy, Hitler's way or something. Better by the verdict of the people's court, after the publication of the verdict. bully
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 14 March 2021 14: 18
                      +21
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Too easy, Hitler's way or something. Better by the verdict of the people's court, after the publication of the verdict

                      I was talking about the most light version, and so you are a hundred pudofff RIGHT !!!
                2. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 14 March 2021 16: 48
                  -9
                  For the two of you, humiliation is enough
                  of the state and private business. Live in your little world, and we will grow. There is a boom in construction on the Black Sea, and it’s not managers who are building. We have to work !!!!
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 17: 25
                    +2
                    Quote: tralflot1832
                    enough belittling
                    benefits of the state and private business

                    Remember the saying "Everything is learned in comparison"? All your achievements are exaggerated, and easily deflated if you mention next to the list of failures, achievements of neighboring states, and the list of owners of your "achievements".
                    1. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 14 March 2021 17: 31
                      -8
                      This is your personal opinion, and I moved from the southern coast of the Barents Sea to the northern coast of the Black Sea, thanks to the management of our President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 17: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        This is your personal opinion.

                        Wait, how did the comparison of achievements and failures, comparison with other states and clarification of the owners of "achievements" become my personal opinion? belay
                      2. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 14 March 2021 18: 22
                        -5
                        It's your failures, but Putin's VV and Yen's all uphill !!!
                      3. Aag
                        Aag 14 March 2021 21: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        It's your failures, but Putin's VV and Yen's all uphill !!!

                        "The grocer and the Cardinal, that's power!" a quote from the movie "The Three Musketeers".
                        Sorry, after reading your post, the picture in front of the verbs immediately surfaced ...))))
                      4. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 21: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        , and Putin VV and yenya all uphill !!!

                        According to the results, poorly, without mountains? wink
                        In what areas did Russia come out on top in global breakthroughs? While in the first places in anti-ratings.
                  2. Aag
                    Aag 14 March 2021 21: 31
                    +2
                    Quote: tralflot1832
                    This is your personal opinion, and I moved from the southern coast of the Barents Sea to the northern coast of the Black Sea, thanks to the management of our President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

                    O-stunned ... What a significant achievement for the Country !!!
                    You to your comrades-in-arms, add thousands of new citizens who came from the former Soviet Union! Only teach them the Russian language, and then not all of them will be able to support you.
                3. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 14 March 2021 19: 47
                  -4
                  At that level you will remain your children of health and prosperity !!
              2. Aag
                Aag 14 March 2021 19: 26
                +2
                Excuse me, I will shake it, because not from "these two" (partly I agree with them).
                You write: "you have to work!"
                I absolutely agree with you! Only EVERYONE (who is capable) should work and receive as much as they worked!
                And with your posts ... you support a different concept, which is peddled by strongly interested people who exploit your faith in justice brought up in the USSR! Indirectly, by obtaining your consent to the further sale of everything that was created by you, your, my parents (I did not create , - protected ...), and, a lot of other compatriots about whom we are talking about in the article under discussion ...
      3. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 16: 38
        +4
        Quote: tralflot1832
        And the owner is well done, although he could have lived comfortably abroad for a long time, having sold his funds.

        This one, or what?
        In 2019, an English court recognized its jurisdiction in this dispute [17] [18] [19]. In its decision, the English court indicated that, despite the tax residency and citizenship of Russia, Orlov has a significant connection with the UK, including most of his personal property in this country, his children live, and he himself regularly spends weekends in London.

        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE_%C2%AB%D0%9D%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%C2%BB
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 14 March 2021 16: 51
          -8
          So, the construction of ships and berths on Three Streams has stopped?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 17: 10
            +4
            Quote: tralflot1832
            So, the construction of ships and berths on Three Streams has stopped?

            Yes, the fact that this fellow of yours has been sitting on the chumodans for a long time, and does not connect his future with Russia, apparently.
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 14 March 2021 17: 26
              -7
              And where you have the facts, they will take you to Norebo, if you are a turner, they would work for 150 rubles a month for six months.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 17: 58
                +2
                Quote: tralflot1832
                Where are your facts?

                What are the facts?
                London court ruled to unfreeze Orlov's assets for $ 350 million, frozen a year ago

                This is only the amount that his former partner demanded.
                https://www.forbes.ru/milliardery/381041-sud-v-londone-razmorozil-aktivy-rybnogo-korolya-vitaliya-orlova
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 14 March 2021 18: 15
                  -3
                  Would you pay for a flight for 150 rubles as a turner? For half a year 000 rubles
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 14 March 2021 19: 23
                    +3
                    Quote: tralflot1832
                    Would you pay for a flight for 150 rubles as a turner?

                    I would go, only I'm not a turner, but a locksmith.
                  2. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 14 March 2021 21: 40
                    +4
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    I would go, only I'm not a turner, but a locksmith.

                    Man, don't argue with him, it's useless. At least pee in the eyes, all is God's dew.
                    Now such salaries are not even on duty. In Togliatti, the average salary is more than 35 tr, but in real life this is the maximum among blue-collar occupations. You can, of course, shabbat unofficially, there are 50+, but the pace of work is worn out, the Labor Code does not smell there.
                  3. tralflot1832
                    tralflot1832 15 March 2021 12: 56
                    -2
                    My friends do not look at contracts less than 200 thousand, but one thing is that for this money you have to plow there, the watch is resting in Yamal.
                  4. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 15 March 2021 20: 39
                    +2
                    I am ready to chat in a personal, with personal data. What contracts, how many of these two hundred have to be paid for housing and food, travel, how much to the intermediary, how much to the foreman, what is the work schedule. Otherwise, your contracts are just urya in the style made by you. I personally know people who regularly work on a shift in Moscow, 2 weeks, 30 tr, + accommodation and meals. The road is at your own expense. YouTube is full of videos exposing watch tales. wink
  • New Year day
    New Year day 14 March 2021 13: 01
    +9
    Quote: Boris55
    Someone watches our TV, and someone prefers to watch and listen to TV from over the hill.

    And someone sits in the office and destroys the economy, takes out their assets abroad, introduces new taxes, conducts experiments to liquidate the "social" state Russia
    Quote: Boris55
    who is for Russia, and who is for the interests of our enemies?

    And what's the answer? The one who destroys the population is your friend, the one who resists it is your enemy. It's simple
    ,
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 March 2021 16: 58
      -14%
      And someone sits in the office and destroys the economy, It is destroyed and it is not growing at a fast pace, but 2000 is growing 1,635.3 billion dollars - 2020 4200 billion dollars you don’t find something that does not fit with the destruction of the economy. assets for the last time, cite "Introduces new taxes" are these for withdrawing funds abroad up to 15% and for profits from dividends and from annual salaries of more than 5 million rubles. Are you against these taxes?
      Russia conducts experiments to liquidate the "social" state. What 7 trillions spent on social services last year, if not more.
      1. Aag
        Aag 14 March 2021 21: 56
        +6
        Quote: Vadim237
        And someone sits in the office and destroys the economy, It is destroyed and it is not growing at a fast pace, but 2000 is growing 1,635.3 billion dollars - 2020 4200 billion dollars you don’t find something that does not fit with the destruction of the economy. assets for the last time, cite "Introduces new taxes" are these for withdrawing funds abroad up to 15% and for profits from dividends and from annual salaries of more than 5 million rubles. Are you against these taxes?
        Russia conducts experiments to liquidate the "social" state. What 7 trillions spent on social services last year, if not more.

        You stick tight on the center channels ...
        "... on social services last year, 7 trillions were spent, if not more ...."
        I dare to suspect that a good part of the flood victims of the Irkutsk region ... Earlier, the fire victims ...
        Only now, even online video cameras were not saved. About three hours ago, another story on local TV about crumbling houses, a little earlier, about subsidies that turn into debts for large families, orphans, fire victims ... Ah, this is an information war, cyberattacks !
        Remember! "The roads are not broken by trucks (all over the world they build and earn money), but yachts!
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 15 March 2021 11: 35
        +3
        Quote: Vadim237
        and it is not growing at a fast pace, but it is growing in 2000 1,635.3 billion dollars - 2020 4200

        If everything is bad, then why new taxes? Why didn't they help in the pandemic? Why did the trade in footwear and clothing collapse while food trade grew? Why has the number of beggars increased in the country? Or do you not believe the members of the government and Rosstat?
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 14 March 2021 15: 13
    +7
    Quote: Boris55
    Someone watches our TV, and someone prefers to watch and listen to TV from over the hill. Guess three times: who is for Russia, and who is for the interests of our enemies?

    If you live longer, you will see more. Such interesting "guesses". Here, the question of priorities is not even entirely clear: “does someone prefer to watch and listen to TV from behind the hill” while over the hill or watch and listen to foreign TV?
    In any case, those who watch Russian TV do not reduce the cost of goods advertised on Russian channels. I know Russians (in deep old age) who hate Russian television channels in terms of broadcasting programs of a certain kind and watch only feature films (and even then not always).
    Then I will ask you two questions.
    First. Who do you consider to be our enemies?
    Second. There is a table like this:

    Who were these "compassionate" ones who made, adopted and signed the pension law of 2018, setting the retirement age for men to 65 years?
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 14 March 2021 17: 00
      -8
      Sailors used to die after retirement, at 55. I am 60 and I communicate with you.
      1. Aag
        Aag 14 March 2021 21: 59
        +1
        Quote: tralflot1832
        Sailors used to die after retirement, at 55. I am 60 and I communicate with you.

        Not a modest question, are you already retired?)))
        ... Health to you! ... and prudence.
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 15 March 2021 07: 42
          -4
          Thank you for your health. I have a slightly different point of view on our life. I do not like who works less than me.
          1. Aag
            Aag 15 March 2021 08: 24
            +2
            Quote: tralflot1832
            Thank you for your health. I have a slightly different point of view on our life. I do not like who works less than me.

            Why did you decide that your point of view is different? - I did not voice my own on this score.
            If you're interested: I don't respect lazy people, "hoses", "mowers", to put it mildly ...
            But I understand that there will always be people who work more, less, with one result or another. The question is, does everyone have such an opportunity? hi
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 15 March 2021 08: 31
              -2
              I am more with the sea, yearning on the shore. Now I envy the young, sailors, mechanics and navigators! I do not like life, go forward under the flag, where the salary is higher. In my time, only the “chosen ones” had such a choice. Although I was elected for 4 years.
              1. Aag
                Aag 16 March 2021 15: 56
                +1
                Quote: tralflot1832
                I am more with the sea, yearning on the shore. Now I envy the young, sailors, mechanics and navigators! I do not like life, go forward under the flag, where the salary is higher. In my time, only the “chosen ones” had such a choice. Although I was elected for 4 years.

                Dear tralflot1832!
                For the above post you have -2. I abstained .. This, of course, is my personal opinion (you can disagree with him, yes, don't even read!): You, a person of the same era with me (USSR), are not fundamentally older, but due to the prevailing circumstances, - in general, pleased with what is happening (see your post about moving from the "southern coast of the North Sea ..." to "... the northern Black Sea ..." Does this characterize the situation in the country? It happened so for everyone. Rather, it is an exception .. I was called from the eastern coast of the Baltic Sea to defend the Motherland beyond the eastern shores of Lake Baikal ... For thirty years I was able to move closer to my small homeland, to the western shores of the lake ,.))) More specifically, most of the citizens of the former USSR are deprived of their EARNED, HONORED; the youth of the Russian Federation is deprived of prospects (challenge !!!)
                Emotionally, I understand you, - a lot of relatives worked in the fishing fleet under the USSR ... Until recently ... Maybe out of a desire to make money, more often, like you, I could not imagine myself without the sea.
                There were a few from the TorgFlot, there were from the GUGI and accompanying ones, from the Navy I knew, but without details ... From my classmates, a school friend, a citizen of Latvia, under the Liberian flag, on a Korean tanker, carries Russian oil to the USA ... That is why I wrote to you about "local interests" ... I don't remember, probably minus ... hi
    2. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 15 March 2021 14: 37
      +2
      Who were these "compassionate" ones who made, adopted and signed the pension law of 2018, setting the retirement age for men to 65 years?

      So this is also the "expected duration"
      On the Rosstat website there is quite officially a table with the population of the Russian Federation. It is very interesting to watch the data from 2014, 2015 ... 2020.
      There is something to think about! Somehow the Kremlin did not shout in 2015 about the increase in the population of the Russian Federation by 3 people! Not due to an increase in the birth rate and a decrease in mortality such figures. All refugees arrived ..., and in the Russian Federation again minus the population.
      Take a look at the Rosstat website, ponder over different tables!
  • Aag
    Aag 14 March 2021 16: 24
    +1
    Quote: Boris55
    Quote: apro
    for this there is a population. who, having watched enough TV, will react with understanding to everything they say.

    Someone watches our TV, and someone prefers to watch and listen to TV from over the hill. Guess three times: who is for Russia, and who is for the interests of our enemies?

    Management is an informational process. What information we receive, we do such actions. You are not happy with the increase in the retirement age, by the way - I am the same, but you are also unhappy with the measures to overcome this. Do you want radical changes, return everything as it was? I do not mind, but with the current, pro-Western composition of the Duma, this is simply not possible.

    ps
    You can watch our TV and theirs, but you just don't need to listen to the announcers (their opinion) and you will have an adequate perception of the information, thanks to which "our" opinion is formed.

    Your rare comment, which is difficult to disagree with. +
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 14 March 2021 06: 32
    +12
    In the world of capital, all laws adopted at the top will be accepted only for themselves, for their further existence. I envy those people who tirelessly try to be with the authorities at any time. Now, probably, the legislators have been tasked to irritate the people. The tremendous power of words over deeds does its job. Tomorrow is Great Lent. And as one of the representatives of the church said when asked what to eat - “The main thing is, do not eat each other.” This is the most important thing for our country.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 14 March 2021 07: 48
      -7
      Quote: nikvic46
      In the world of capital, all laws adopted at the top will be accepted only for themselves, for their further existence.
      RџSЂRё any social order !!! The ideology is slightly different.
      "Rome" looked - everything is very clearly shown there. Nothing changes.
      1. lucul
        lucul 14 March 2021 09: 28
        +1
        With any social system !!! The ideology is slightly different.
        "Rome" looked - everything is very clearly shown there. Nothing changes.

        You better watch the movie "Selling for a Fall".
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 14 March 2021 11: 56
          0
          Quote: lucul
          You better watch the movie "Selling for a Fall".
          And what will I find there?
          Just what was the mutual guarantee under capitalism? Do you understand what the film is about?
          About the same thing that we had under "socialism" late USSR: about postscripts. By the way, do you know how many there were - these USSR?

          One can somehow assume that in North Korea there is some semblance of communism, but ... in fact, like any other system, it supports itself in the first place. This is the nature of the state.
          If I am wrong, give the opposite examples.
    2. Machito
      Machito 14 March 2021 10: 34
      +10
      Quote: nikvic46
      In the world of capital, all laws adopted at the top will be accepted only for themselves, for their further existence. I envy those people who tirelessly try to be with the authorities at any time. Now, probably, the legislators have been tasked to irritate the people. The tremendous power of words over deeds does its job. Tomorrow is Great Lent. And as one of the representatives of the church said when asked what to eat - “The main thing is, do not eat each other.” This is the most important thing for our country.

      Tereshkova is always in power. In 1977, she advocated for the Brezhnev Constitution, and in 2020 for zeroing. Valyukha is always with the bubble. For the sake of the dough, I am ready to trample any principles and beliefs. But she was always honest: she’s in her pocket for the loot, and the others don’t care.
      We have many such principled ones: Nikita Mikhalkov, Pavel Gusev, etc.
      They are always for power and loot. Sometimes it seems to me that if the Nazis come to power, they will agitate for the Nazis, just to eat in three throats.
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 14 March 2021 15: 22
      +3
      Quote: nikvic46
      Now, perhaps, the legislators have been tasked with irritating the people.

      Quote: Simargl
      With any social system !!! The ideology is slightly different.

      Is someone driving you somewhere? That you are so hastily stringing words on top of each other:

      Quote: Simargl
      "Rome" looked - everything is very clearly shown there. Nothing changes.

      Quote: lucul
      You better watch the movie "Selling for a Fall".

      Any feature film cannot pretend to be either truth, or a set of laws, or a guide to action. Colorful pictures about morality and immorality as understood by the director.
    4. Aag
      Aag 14 March 2021 16: 41
      +1
      Quote: nikvic46
      In the world of capital, all laws adopted at the top will be accepted only for themselves, for their further existence. I envy those people who tirelessly try to be with the authorities at any time. Now, probably, the legislators have been tasked to irritate the people. The tremendous power of words over deeds does its job. Tomorrow is Great Lent. And as one of the representatives of the church said when asked what to eat - “The main thing is, do not eat each other.” This is the most important thing for our country.

      "In the world of capital, all the laws adopted at the top ..."
      It looks like you are the same retrograde, like me)). Apparently, it's time to clarify: not "capital", but "transnational capital". I would not like to believe it, but, - all the reasons for that. ((
      "... I envy those people who tirelessly try to be close to the authorities at any time ...."
      IMHO: it does not paint you! Is it, only sincerity ... Otherwise, "we are losing another fighter"))).
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 14 March 2021 07: 20
    +16
    All this is fiction for not particularly smart voters before the Duma elections. Well, you will be credited with the experience of studying at a university, for example, so what? The pension is calculated based on earnings and contributions to the Pension Fund. That is, in fact, the scholarship that you received at the university should have levied personal income tax, and the university had to calculate and pay insurance premiums for you to the PF. Not only is it unclear what to do with those who do not receive a scholarship, but to study, for example, on a paid basis, it is still unclear to which shishi the university should pay contributions to the Pension Fund. The same scholarship is still not subject to personal income tax, and there is no money in the Pension Fund for this and is not expected. And if people retire early, then what is the point of raising the retirement age by 5 years? In general, they hung noodles on the ears, that's all.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 14 March 2021 07: 34
      -1
      When I studied in the 90s, I did not see the principle of the scholarship as a class.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 14 March 2021 15: 27
      +3
      Quote: From Tomsk
      All this is fiction for not particularly smart voters before the Duma elections.

      On the eve of the elections, we can find out that "the hair will come out of the orbits" ... laughing
  • parusnik
    parusnik 14 March 2021 07: 23
    +26
    Work, Russians, the sun is still high!
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 07: 39
      +11
      What other sun ... a digital paradise awaits us ahead, each citizen got his own number with a personal file ... there is your whole life and a loyalty index. smile The times of total dependence on those in power are coming.
      Personal life, family, income and expenses all come under the control of people whose interests, to put it mildly, are unclear to the end ... what are they preparing for us ... a concentration camp or a golden cage?
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 14 March 2021 09: 09
        0
        Lech from Android. You look very darkly into the future. Think, they will put a digital brand. A person will not die from this. Those who are twelve years younger will see wonderful transformations. If you want socialism, please. If you want a monarchy, which is easier. And if you want everything in one bottle, then the monarch will also be the General Secretary of the CPSU. Of course, it will look like graffiti. The main thing is for people to see, everything is for them.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 09: 35
          +4
          The president is the colonel of the KGB, the prime minister of taxation, the former deputy of the internal troops, the adviser to the president, the well-known Mr. Comrade Chubais, grew up.
          .. what
          A wonderful quartet ... I'm not against the siloviki ... but when Comrade Chubais is in their company, gloomy thoughts come into my head ... knowing the biography of this swindler.
      2. Machito
        Machito 14 March 2021 10: 37
        +1
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        What other sun ... a digital paradise awaits us ahead, each citizen got his own number with a personal file ... there is your whole life and a loyalty index. smile The times of total dependence on those in power are coming.
        Personal life, family, income and expenses all come under the control of people whose interests, to put it mildly, are unclear to the end ... what are they preparing for us ... a concentration camp or a golden cage?

        In Auschwitz and Majdanek, numbers were imposed on the hand, and now they are photographed in the MFC and Sberbank.
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 14 March 2021 17: 02
        -7
        Income and expenses - This is the main thing, it will be possible to determine online who pays taxes and who does not, who steals and takes bribes.
      4. Aag
        Aag 14 March 2021 17: 49
        0
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        What other sun ... a digital paradise awaits us ahead, each citizen got his own number with a personal file ... there is your whole life and a loyalty index. smile The times of total dependence on those in power are coming.
        Personal life, family, income and expenses all come under the control of people whose interests, to put it mildly, are unclear to the end ... what are they preparing for us ... a concentration camp or a golden cage?

        ... Let me just specify: "every citizen of the Russian Federation"! ...
        It looks like the Cabinet of Ministers, the State Duma, the Security Council will soon decide and pass a resolution, adopt a law that in the aforementioned structures, the Russian authorities will have the right to "wave the oars" only non-citizens of the Russian Federation (at the same time, the issue with former compatriots in the Baltic republics will be "settled"). Accordingly, they will not necessarily be provided, even with falsified levels of income, expenses ... No-oh, well, you still need to milk the cow, even though the cerebral fluid is rushing through the udder ...
        As for the "interests of people" ... (((
        Not Julia: years before the 16th, -yary, not without reservations, "Zaputinets". I may be somewhat mistaken in the timing, I do not attribute the change of priorities to specific laws, events ... The edge, - the pension reform! No, purely selfishly, one could even rejoice, - against the general background I will even have some advantage (pen. somewhat earlier. But, since it was not critical, in those years, there was health, and the opportunity to work, officially, unofficially ...), he took the next innovations with caution, but "with understanding" ... After retirement, - the masks have been dropped, - the Russal case, - "it is necessary to support OUR businessmen, the reincarnation of Taburetkin; fires, floods, or rather a striking difference from what is presented in the media with what is happening on the ground; and much more. By the way! Not at all related to those" protests "in Moscow, with whom Solovyov and the team are so fiercely" fighting (and in the "team", it seems, opponents are ripe ...)
        Sorry if I misinterpreted your thought.
    2. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 14 March 2021 09: 49
      -12%
      The question is for what salary, at the level of the 90s, when I received a salary for 4 years in dollars, I now live better, earning in rubles. So the sun not only shines but also warms.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 09: 56
        +1
        Real social guarantees would be attached to these rubles, then there would be no questions. hi
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 14 March 2021 10: 00
        +22
        Quote: tralflot1832
        So the sun not only shines but also warms.

        one question remains, who fills this very budget?
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 14 March 2021 10: 06
          -8
          Such as I was in my youth. I worked for 40% of the cost of manufactured products, which are highly liquid by the way. Fish is always in price. The owner could not raise our salary because of taxes. There is a tricky grid in taxation.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 14 March 2021 12: 57
            +20
            Quote: tralflot1832
            Such as I was in my youth. I worked for 40% of the cost of manufactured products, which are highly liquid by the way. Fish is always in price. The owner could not raise our salary because of taxes. There is a tricky grid in taxation.

            I'm sorry that you learn about your thoughts from the written. Try to re-read a couple of your previous comments.
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 14 March 2021 13: 11
              -2
              I never regretted it, someone had to feed the state employees and pensioners then. Taxes and excise taxes are sacred, especially since my youth has passed, now I am a pensioner who works. I am preparing a shift, if everything is successful in six months I will forget about this work. You can't earn all the money, but you need to strive for this.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 14 March 2021 13: 26
                +18
                Quote: tralflot1832
                I am preparing a shift, if everything is successful in six months I will forget about this work. You will not earn all the money, but you have to strive for this.

                Well, what are the prospects for a state called the Russian Federation?
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 14 March 2021 13: 35
                  -6
                  Everything will be fine if there is no cruel and merciless war. In the 90s, the West got out on our dollars, I hope this will not happen again. Children and grandchildren will heal !!!
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 14 March 2021 13: 59
                    +21
                    Quote: tralflot1832
                    Everything will be fine if there is no cruel and merciless war. In the 90s, the West got out on our dollars, I hope this will not happen again. Children and grandchildren will heal !!!

                    I agree, everything will be fine if you stop writing this garbage.
                    and the 90s did not go anywhere, just the same cops-bandits and bandits-cops mimicked from red jackets to jackets from Isaia or Paul Smith, and instead of vodka they began to use coconut.
                    1. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 14 March 2021 14: 03
                      -2
                      It is anological for you, it is good to write all sorts of garbage. Time will judge.
                      1. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 14 March 2021 14: 05
                        +20
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        It is anological for you, it is good to write all sorts of garbage. Time will judge.

                      2. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 14 March 2021 14: 08
                        -1
                        A good history film will probably be banned in the light of new history clips, it's a pity.
                      3. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 14 March 2021 14: 31
                        -1
                        The most surprising thing with all the "cuts" on the VO, I find a common language, with a Crimean and an Englishman.
                      4. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 14 March 2021 14: 32
                        +15
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        A good history film will probably be banned in the light of new history clips, it's a pity.

                        Gee-gee, why are you changing your shoes? laughing
                        Do you want me to provang your life under Putinism?
                        you have more than fifty dollars, you live in a Soviet three-ruble note (options are possible), you have a car like "LogAn", well, or "DUSTER" on credit, your wife has already gotten you with Correg cream, constantly asks for money, and you earn pennies (I think no more -ki), in the evening you twist the check and watch the evening one, and of course you have children ...
                        continue or have you had enough?
                      5. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 14 March 2021 15: 04
                        -4
                        Yes, I will be 60 in four months. I live in my house in Sochi, I sell the second plot to Muscovites, I don’t want a MacLaren car, but I don’t have a lot of money. By the way, I rode a little thing on Formula 1 as a passenger. My wife got it on her bombs, she spends All your pension on yourself, the salary is six-figure, it turns out it was necessary to study, especially recently. Work with your hands, not only for the clave.
                      6. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 14 March 2021 15: 30
                        +20
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        I live in my house in Sochi, I sell the second plot

                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        The salary is six figures,

                        and you are not a "brush" by any chance belay what
                        Shl. admins, I just asked, how are things in Sochi? And how many kilowatts of life from Tomsk-Omsk before, damn it, Sochi ?!
                      7. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 14 March 2021 15: 37
                        -2
                        To be honest, I sold my apartment in Murmansk, reported my savings from the sea, bought a barn in Sochi, moved two times after the sale. As a result, my house and land for sale.
                      8. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 14 March 2021 18: 48
                        +20
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        sold an apartment in Murmansk, reported his savings from the sea, bought a barn in Sochi. He moved two times after the sale. As a result, his house and land for sale.

                        Well, you're just a successful entrepreneur, the pride of the Russian Federation good Why didn't you go to Tula or Tolyatti? And how is the girl from Apatity who got through to Kabayav?
                        And now look here, talk about pensions and figure out that I have a couple of medals and five buried awards across the river and you want to tell me that two fittings from Vova are worthy?
                      9. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 14 March 2021 19: 01
                        -3
                        The city of birth is Sochi. The passport is registered. For your parents, I earned a pension in the north in the 90s.
                      10. tralflot1832
                        tralflot1832 15 March 2021 07: 23
                        -2
                        I have a person whom I supported in difficult times. He passed the first Chechen war, under the command of Stanislav Kravtsov. Eternal memory to Stanislav Kravtsov, who saved the life of my friend. He died a couple of meters from my friend's BMP. After demobilization, the Friend decided to devote his life to the sea. Yes, it was difficult, but I was able to help fulfill his dream. Now he is currently going on a steamer to Brazil as a mechanic. Each master of his own fate. During 25 years of friendship, only last year I learned the details of that battle. And then from journalists.
  • Aag
    Aag 14 March 2021 22: 17
    +2
    Quote: tralflot1832
    Such as I was in my youth. I worked for 40% of the cost of manufactured products, which are highly liquid by the way. Fish is always in price. The owner could not raise our salary because of taxes. There is a tricky grid in taxation.

    So did you work on the budget, or did you work for the Boss? (Of course, if for the Boss, then he still put a fraction into the budget, or Tolik, he entered) ...
    Actually, in the 80s, in construction, for example, a worker received 6 kopecks from the earned ruble. And, ATTENTION, in the overwhelming majority of cases he was satisfied! Because I had a vacation, medical support, a queue for free housing, with the provision of a compulsory service, the possibility of free education for myself, children, - in general, faith in tomorrow. Let the youth not grin, - about many social guarantees they and did not hear (do not want to voice the current ...).
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 15 March 2021 07: 25
      -2
      The owner paid taxes honestly, for me that's for sure, his pension is not bad, Everything would be like that.
  • Drugov
    Drugov 16 March 2021 01: 27
    +1
    Hospad, do you really consider your fishing job an incredibly important and necessary achievement for the whole country?
  • Stas157
    Stas157 14 March 2021 10: 29
    +5
    Quote: parusnik
    Work, Russians, the sun is still high!

    hi So now we have African salaries!

    A few more years of such a stabilizer, and our superpower will no longer differ from the poorest countries on the planet. No, well, except for the luxurious palaces and yachts of those in power. Nobody can beat us here!
  • tatra
    tatra 14 March 2021 07: 33
    +12
    As the enemies of the communists longed for "changes" in their Perestroika, the endless "reforms", "plans", "projects" still cannot calm down.
    "And let's do it this way. Oh, it didn't work out, but let's do it like this. And, again, it didn't work out. Well, to hell with him, as always, we will blame the communists."
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 14 March 2021 07: 49
      -21%
      Quote: tatra
      As the enemies of the communists longed for "changes" in their Perestroika, they still cannot calm down

      Have you calmed down yet? Don't you want any changes? Are you satisfied with everything already? laughing
    2. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 14 March 2021 09: 53
      -14%
      Which party has betrayed the interests of the people more than once? I hope that they keep only on their leaders. There is continuity in United Russia, although many are angry about it.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 14 March 2021 15: 39
        +2
        Quote: tralflot1832
        In United Russia, there is continuity, although this angers many.

        "At" or "Pre"?
        People said that there is also continuity among the “watching” and among the thieves ... Only the poor do not have it - there is nothing to receive or transmit ... request
    3. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 14 March 2021 13: 38
      -3
      You probably have not encountered pompolytes in production,
    4. Drugov
      Drugov 16 March 2021 01: 34
      0
      There is always someone to blame, in the cage both the State Department and Navalny and the fifth column and the damned liberals and further down the list.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 14 March 2021 07: 33
    +7
    On the face of the removal from the state (a handful of oligarchs at the helm) of the basic obligations of the state to its citizens. The unspoken social contract between the government and the people has been violated on many points. Systemic crisis. Some are reluctant, others cannot. Plus bureaucracy that works for itself, without any benefit to the country in which they feed. In general, the generation of 77-90 years old, in general, in principle, for the most part, shines a minimum wage or homeless style for social security, because it is easier for a veteran of 1812 to find certificates of experience in the archives than for our brother.
    1. apro
      apro 14 March 2021 08: 50
      +5
      Quote: evgen1221
      On the face of the removal from the state (a handful of oligarchs at the helm) of the basic obligations of the state to its citizens

      And why are you surprised ??? the market in the Russian Federation decides who has what responsibilities. And who owes whom.
      Quote: evgen1221
      An unspoken social contract power-people violated

      Oh ... how ... but publicly to put forward and defend their interests to the people, as I understand it, faith does not allow ??? are there public organizations today in rf. Which defend the interests of the population ???
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 14 March 2021 10: 19
        +3
        Not only religion, but also the law does not allow the population to defend their rights. There are only one unsubscriptions. Recently, he complained to neighbors with children about constant Mouzon after 12 at night, an answer came in which it was revealed that it was my mother who improperly supports minor children (while my mother is 65 years old and I have one child who is 45 already. ...
        1. apro
          apro 14 March 2021 10: 30
          +2
          Quote: evgen1221
          but the law does not allow the population to defend their rights.

          And who writes the laws ??? the representatives of the people or the occupants ??
          1. evgen1221
            evgen1221 14 March 2021 12: 27
            +3
            And where did you see the representatives of the people there?
            1. apro
              apro 14 March 2021 12: 28
              -5
              Quote: evgen1221
              And where did you see the representatives of the people there?

              And who do you choose in the elections ???
              1. evgen1221
                evgen1221 14 March 2021 12: 31
                +1
                And who - all business or party functionaries. Pls mass of people on the lists, in which God knows by what criteria they are recruited.
                1. apro
                  apro 14 March 2021 12: 35
                  -4
                  Quote: evgen1221
                  completely or business or party functionaries

                  So democracy. For which 1991 blood was shed.
                  But seriously, this speaks of the inability to organize and protect your rights. For you just like that. No one will do anything.
                  1. evgen1221
                    evgen1221 14 March 2021 13: 29
                    0
                    Not only inability is the case, but also in the legislatively leveled opportunities, mechanisms of this case.
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 14 March 2021 15: 40
            +4
            Quote: apro
            And who writes the laws ??? the representatives of the people or the invaders ??

            laughing
            Do you believe that Narusova represents the interests of the inhabitants of Tyva?
            1. apro
              apro 14 March 2021 15: 44
              +2
              Quote: ROSS 42
              Do you believe that Narusova represents the interests of the inhabitants of Tyva?

              The question is not correct. It is intended for feeding. By a public guarantor.
              But I do. I do not believe. This is not the case. You should know.
          3. Aag
            Aag 14 March 2021 22: 21
            0
            Quote: apro
            Quote: evgen1221
            but the law does not allow the population to defend their rights.

            And who writes the laws ??? the representatives of the people or the occupants ??

            And your own answer?
            Well, at least in parentheses, upside down, or on the last page? Huh?)))
            1. apro
              apro 15 March 2021 03: 18
              -1
              Quote: AAG
              And your own answer?

              And the option is to organize oneself and strive to improve one's position, just like 150 years ago.
              1. Aag
                Aag 16 March 2021 15: 06
                0
                Quote: apro
                Quote: AAG
                And your own answer?

                And the option is to organize oneself and strive to improve one's position, just like 150 years ago.

                In general terms, I absolutely agree with you! (True, I misunderstood about "150 years" ...
                However, on EVERY word in your comment, you can put at least a couple of clarifying questions: "Is it an option?", "Or the only correct solution?", "What other options?" ...
                "Organize ..." - you can fall under the wording of an organized criminal group ...
                "..to achieve .." - and what methods? (do they pull on the article?) - it will not work otherwise (!).
                "... their ..." - did not notice, the interests of citizens are strongly disunited (IMHO: planned)?
                "... provisions ..." - what is meant by this, how to evaluate? (domestic statistics is a very "flexible" thing) ...
                ... My dissatisfaction is not with you personally, but with the situation. Don't you think, they did everything competently, competently, in the style of modern realities? hi
                1. apro
                  apro 16 March 2021 19: 57
                  0
                  Quote: AAG
                  However, on EVERY word in your comment, you can put at least a couple of clarifying questions: "Is it an option?", "Or the only correct solution?", "What other options?" ...
                  "Organize ..." - you can fall under the wording of an organized criminal group ...

                  Dear. Of course, there are no ready-made recipes for a specific dish here. How to fight and search for Kaverin and not give up. There would be a fatal need to survive.
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 16 March 2021 20: 48
                    0
                    Quote: apro
                    Quote: AAG
                    However, on EVERY word in your comment, you can put at least a couple of clarifying questions: "Is it an option?", "Or the only correct solution?", "What other options?" ...
                    "Organize ..." - you can fall under the wording of an organized criminal group ...

                    Dear. Of course, there are no ready-made recipes for a specific dish here. How to fight and search for Kaverin and not give up. There would be a fatal need to survive.

                    "... it would be fatal to survive ..."
                    But with this in the current population society of the Russian Federation there are big disagreements ... I do not agree with the opinion of many, in the sense that fools are in power. At least, the thesis-divide and conquer, -they have learned .. And even expect 1905- th year is not worth ... ((( hi
                    1. apro
                      apro 16 March 2021 20: 51
                      +1
                      Quote: AAG
                      I disagree with the opinion of many, in the sense that fools are in power

                      This is exactly. Good luck on the path of life. What I could. Said.
                      1. Aag
                        Aag 16 March 2021 20: 58
                        0
                        Quote: apro
                        Quote: AAG
                        I disagree with the opinion of many, in the sense that fools are in power

                        This is exactly. Good luck on the path of life. What I could. Said.

                        Mutually...
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 14 March 2021 07: 41
    +11
    The topic is interesting, but they will trample on with stories about Ukraine.
    About various benefits and early exits. You can, of course, when you need to close your eyes, to how we transitioned to capitalism. For example, I have lost my experience for decades. And my studies under Leonid Ilyich, whoever needs it, then they also said they would be counted in the experience. Only now are the times. Yes, I am still so young that now I have to exist up to 65. And so everything is fine.
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 14 March 2021 07: 46
    +3
    [quoteUnder the new rules, which was signed by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, their work experience, which is needed for early retirement, will now be credited with studies in universities, and, most likely, in secondary educational institutions] [/ quote]

    laughing The Russian public is not aware that earlier days of training and "advanced training" were deducted from the teaching experience of teachers. This is about 1-3 weeks per year. They, at one time, were taken from their teaching experience along with maternity leave. This is, in fact, an insignificant period.
    The wife flew by with the "seniority", to which there was a year. sad

    The Russian Federation has taught working citizens to rely only on themselves. Even in conditions of falling nominal wages, it would be possible to postpone it "for old age." But the world order considers "moderate inflation" commendable. Any "neo-Calvinist" will face a problem, but how to postpone?
    PFs are unreliable, they burst even in the States. Denmark shows negative profitability! Banknotes are threatened with dilapidation, inflation and the pranks of monetary reforms. Gold is not affordable.
    It remains to protect health and at the same time "break the day". laughing am
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 14 March 2021 12: 29
      -4
      There are, for example, options to get out of this madhouse.
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 14 March 2021 07: 48
    +8
    "Even in military schools, somehow and somewhere" to settle down "
    quite a few cadets did it. "
    The authors! What did you mean?
    "study at the Universities of Marxism-Leninism"
    What is this about? How is UML related to retirement?
    I doubt the competence of the authors ...
    1. Aag
      Aag 14 March 2021 22: 26
      +1
      Quote: Bez 310
      "Even in military schools, somehow and somewhere" to settle down "
      quite a few cadets did it. "
      The authors! What did you mean?
      "study at the Universities of Marxism-Leninism"
      What is this about? How is UML related to retirement?
      I doubt the competence of the authors ...

      By the way, strongly Yes!
      Also outraged !! Distracted by comments ... Article ... IMHO, none ... However, it must be admitted, it caused controversy! Or is this a day? ...
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 14 March 2021 09: 13
    +1
    For future retirees, when "going" to the pension fund for registration of a pension, prepare as if for a battle. No one will look for help there, you should have everything in your hands. Why, during privatization, the archives of enterprises were burning in the first place, then the options are simple no. The difference in the monetary level can be many times, fight for every ruble. The forgotten government regulation can play a decisive role.
  • Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 14 March 2021 09: 22
    -7
    Quote: apro

    Quote: Boris55
    Inflation is an integral part of capitalism.

    One of the methods of making a profit from the population without straining too much.

    Not so, in fact. Inflation is, rather, one of the ways to make the wheel of the economy spin. Because without inflation, sooner or later the moment will come when the amount of savings of the population will outweigh the desire and need to work. And then what to do? Drive to factories at gunpoint?
    And so, no matter how much you dig, if the grandmas do not work, then they depreciate and the likelihood of spitting on everything and stopping working for the conditional Vasya is pushed back into the boundless future. I want to eat every day
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 10: 11
      +4
      Original, smile But what about those who, at the expense of the same people, have long accumulated billions, transferred them over the hill and live there skimming the cream.
      That is, it turns out that a small part of society can afford to fatten at the expense of most of society, organizing an artificial
      inflation telling the people a blizzard about inflation, the economy and the need to work. A vicious circle turns out.
  • Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 14 March 2021 09: 24
    +2
    Quote: Bez 310
    "Even in military schools, somehow and somewhere" to settle down "
    quite a few cadets did it. "
    The authors! What did you mean?
    "study at the Universities of Marxism-Leninism"
    What is this about? How is UML related to retirement?
    I doubt the competence of the authors ...

    Unfortunately, there is such a thing. The article is more like thinking out loud under-formed.
  • maiman61
    maiman61 14 March 2021 09: 30
    +10
    Putin's "Pension Reform", this is the state "MMM"! Who disagrees?
  • Altona
    Altona 14 March 2021 10: 16
    +9
    "Take away pensions, medicine, social services and build another palace for yourself" - this is the simple logic of the current government. As for the "insidious, omnipresent West", our "patriots" have this very West in the form of Nabiulina and Siluanov, Gref and Chubais, but they do not see them point-blank. The "patriots" see a "miracle hero" who breaks pens and shifts papers in the bunker, simultaneously signing terrible decrees and laws. That's all.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 14 March 2021 17: 10
      -7
      "Nabiulina and Siluanova", About other previous ones in these places they wrote the same thing. You are not tired of emptying from empty to empty yet.
      1. Altona
        Altona 14 March 2021 19: 54
        +3
        Quote: Vadim237
        "Nabiulina and Siluanova", About other previous ones in these places they wrote the same thing. You are not tired of emptying from empty to empty yet.

        --------------------------------
        No, not tired, unlike you. Pension reform in its current form is an act of civil war against which the supposedly conformist part of society is.
  • nnm
    nnm 14 March 2021 13: 10
    +1
    If he had stayed a little late in the 90s in the Square, he could have stayed on the beans at all, and so he regularly receives his major "thousand"

    No, I wouldn't. The length of service with the countries of the former Soviet Union is mutually recognized. Except for the Baltics and Georgia. So, the length of service in the Armed Forces of those years is taken into account when assigning a pension in Russia.
    If he resigned from the RF Armed Forces and he was not credited with the length of service in the Armed Forces, let him apply to the regional military registration and enlistment office, they will count.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 14 March 2021 16: 46
    +3
    Let me put it simply about the pension reform repeat
    I can't wait until finally according to all the rules and laws people on the streets express their protest drinks I tama will be in the forefront soldier and - the most law-abiding drinks
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 14 March 2021 17: 59
    +1
    Don't add salt to sugar.
    I don’t understand anything about these pensions anymore ...
    And how much more I have to smoke before them actually.
    One thing I understood is to smoke and smoke ...
    Therefore, I try not to think about such sorrows. Too much.
    In order not to fall into the Martian depression.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 14 March 2021 19: 17
    +2
    Even in military schools, quite a lot of cadets managed to "find a place" somehow and somewhere.

    Curious. This is where a cadet of a military university with the status of a conscript, without a passport, with only one military card without a demobilization mark could officially fit in?
    Despite the fact that both then and now there was and there is a ban on such an act, except for scientific or creative activity. How could he "work" officially? A CSKA hockey player? Then it concerns at best two or three people in the country.
  • Tests
    Tests 14 March 2021 19: 32
    +5
    Well, dear authors, it seems, did not read what they write about at all. I'm talking about the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of March 4, 2021 N 322. "Teachers, doctors, firefighters and pilots," the authors write. There is no such listing in the Resolution. There is a clear reference: "When calculating the periods of work that gives the right to early retirement benefits in accordance with Articles 30 and 31 of the Federal Law" On Insurance Pensions ".
    As many commentators reasonably noted - the terms of study, when you retained a job, the average salary and contributions to the pension fund were deducted - are very small, for labor activity it will take a little more than 20 months. Of course, 1,5-2 years plus length of service is great, but the Pension Reform in a year of the World Cup is a plus from 6 months. up to 5 years for work experience ...
    And nothing is said in the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation about studying, neither in universities, nor in secondary specialized educational institutions. And doctors and teachers, about whom the authors wrote, who received a preferential pension without taking into account the time of study in courses confirming certificates and categories, with whom they did not speak in the last week, will not go to the Pension Fund of Russia or to the courts. They waved their hand: "A lot of fuss, time and nerves to find all these papers and nerves to spend in the Pension Fund of Russia do not want to because of the recalculation of 100 rubles."
    That the reform of the cannibal was talked about a lot and often. The authors raised the topic of military service in the SA for 2-3 years. It seems that this topic has been forgotten by the Supreme. She doesn't bother him. He himself was not a soldier or a sailor, a sergeant or a sergeant major - a conscript ... After all, if you raise this topic, you will immediately see the difference between those who served as a conscript in the Theater of the Soviet Army and those who crawled under the floorboards next to the reactor, who froze snot on Novaya Zemlya, and some in Gorno-Badakhshan Autonomous Okrug, some languishing in heat near Kushka, some with a diesel engine for 4 or 3 days sitting at the -20 m mark, some received DP for dinner for the fact that an oxidizer or fuel in the OZK and a gas mask in the "product" filed. Yes, they are not combatants. But many of those who are preparing for retirement today served in the zone where the state of emergency was declared. But they all have no experience of either the "northern" or the "harmful" ... Even if a person worked in the HRC and then came to the rescue service, his compulsory service as a firefighter does not go into his work experience in his specialty. During the Soviet era, there were a lot of fire brigades in both Moscow and Leningrad, where conscripts were firemen ... There is no money, but you ...
  • Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 14 March 2021 21: 57
    +5
    .... Compared to the figures, which we were alternately frightened and inspired by, campaigning for the need to raise the retirement age - sheer pennies.
    And the main thing is that our government actually has them ...

    laughing laughing laughing
    Money, that is, but not about your honor. wink lol
    .
  • Kushka
    Kushka 14 March 2021 23: 51
    +1
    Quote: Benzorez
    Don't add salt to sugar.
    I don’t understand anything about these pensions anymore ...
    And how much more I have to smoke before them actually.
    One thing I understood is to smoke and smoke ...

    And FSE from human greed!
    When the Lord created everyone, he assigned each one for 25 years.
    Here is a horse hunched over a couple of years and begged - throw it off,
    says ten, I can’t pull it. And the Man says - give me, give.
    The dog tapped out a couple of fierce winters with his teeth and prayed -
    Throw off a dozen, I beg you, I will not make it. And Man - give me, give me.
    Monkey from tree to tree, and eat a little - two
    years from hand to mouth, hands to knees - throw off a dozen, rheumatism
    I will not hold out. And man - give me, give me.
    Now Man lives -
    the first 25 years - OWN - full of health, for pleasure.
    then 10 years of horse - builds a house, feeds, raises a family.
    then 10 years of dogs - mother-in-law bickering - father-in-law-daughter-in-law, wife sawing,
    children have "teeth cut through."
    finally 10 years of monkey - blind, toothless sits on a bench,
    and the kids are grimacing and showing duli.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 15 March 2021 02: 20
    +4
    This is how I see it all! sad
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAY_2uG97cc&ab_channel=nikolau61
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 15 March 2021 16: 01
    0
    it is necessary immediately to 72, that would be with a guarantee. And officials will gladly sit at their posts until the end. Silver period - the bastards came up with.
    1. agond
      agond 16 March 2021 10: 11
      0
      On early retirement pensions for doctors and teachers (miners are not allowed, even though you can't go underground since childhood before 50 years), but let's say the conscripts in the construction battalion, or as they were called by military builders, in addition to serving their homeland, created material values ​​(such as built) This paid two taxes, one income tax, and the second tax on childlessness in the amount of 19%, after deducting the tax from the accrued salary, they deducted everything in a row, food, uniforms, a bathhouse, wear and tear of the barracks, some of them having served 2 years in 1979 were due to 100 rubles (the debt was generously forgiven), but it happened with a salary of 97 kopecks a day (6 working days and a week, overtime was never paid), they went into minus, and as much as 1 rubles were spent on the maintenance of a soldier per day for a builder. and 4kop. at the same time, the homeland saved on everything, boots were given 2 pairs instead of 3 as in combined arms, and work gloves for working on a construction site in the textile region were always in short supply.
      So it would be fair to reduce the retirement age for these two years of conscript service.
  • Lister
    Lister 29 March 2021 17: 59
    +8
    campaigning for the need to raise the retirement age

    Personally, no one asked or campaigned for me. I am against the pension reform. I am in favor of canceling it.