Military Review

Speeches to the Russian nation

113
The author of this note proceeds from the assumption that the existence of the Russian nation is an urgent practical task of modern Russia (as well as the existence of the Tatar, Buryat and other nations native to the territory of Russia).


However, what is it - a nation?

Is this the same as the people?

And if not, how do these two relate to each other? something?

It seems clear that without answering at least the first of the questions posed, there can be no question of a practical solution to the existence of the Russian nation: after all, it is impossible to consciously do something the essence of which you do not understand. Therefore, the practical realization of the Russian nation is preceded by a theoretical understanding of the very essence of the nation.

It is for those who find in themselves the need for such an understanding that the author of this article would suggest that they get acquainted with the report by A.N. Muravyov, at that time a candidate of philosophical sciences and an associate professor of the department stories philosophy at that time, it seems, was the Faculty of Philosophy of St. Petersburg State University (now it is the Institute of Philosophy of St. Petersburg State University).

The lecture is called “Speeches to the Russian Nation” and was dedicated for the first time in 200 years to two translations into Russian of “Speeches to the German Nation” by the German classical philosopher I.G. Fichte (1762-1814).

In our opinion, in this report, at a sufficiently high theoretical level (and, what is important, in a language accessible to those who are not a specialist in philosophy), both the essence of the nation as such is formulated, and it is indicated why the Russian people are suitable to become a nation in the philosophical sense of the word ...


A source: "VIEW"

Abstracts


Let's briefly go over the main theses and topics of the report:

1. Fichte was mistaken in addressing his "Speeches" to the Germans, because, as the XNUMXth century has shown, the Germans are not capable of becoming a nation, being inclined not only to nationalism, but even to Nazism. The key role of real philosophy and real art in the upbringing and education of a real nation.

2. The main idea of ​​Fichte's "Speeches":

"Only upbringing can save us from all the troubles that oppress us."

The clash in the modern history of Russian education of two equally opposite, as well as mutually complementary moral forces: rationalistic-scientific (scientistic) and irrationalist-religious.

3. The complex nature of the national question. Nationalism is a definite mistake of thinking. Nazism is the result of the infringement of the hypertrophied sense of pride of the people in the conditions of monopoly-concentrated capital. Internationalism is also a mistake of thinking, albeit the opposite of nationalism.

4. National self-determination of peoples is necessary today so that these peoples are not dragged into the Third World War. The difference between the concept of a nation and the concept of a nation.

According to the idea, according to Muravyov,

"A nation is any set of individuals who have reached civil accord in the form of a state capable of defending their independence in the fight against other states and ensuring the selfish interests of its constituent citizens."

Terms


According to Fichte's concept of a nation, for its transformation into a nation, any people must fulfill the following necessary and together sufficient conditions:

1) preservation by the people of its connection with their native land;

2) preservation by the people of their native language;

3) the emergence of a methodically thinking philosopher in the depths of this people;

4) education of the people who have retained their connection with their native land and their native language on the basis of scientific philosophy.

The fulfillment of all these four conditions is a revolution not only in the upbringing and education of an individual nation, but also of all mankind as a whole. Only such a revolution makes upbringing and education truly national.

5. If a person brought up not on the basis of national education, largely, although he could be outwardly harmless and even useful person, inside himself he still remained an egoist, then in a real nation all people will be entirely good people, that is, people of good, unselfish will.

If the former (non-national) state was a kind of machine, at best, only externally forcing its own typical citizen to good actions, then the new, national state will be a true state - in the sense that it will create a source of goodness within the free spirit of its citizens.

(It should be noted that this is not about the fact that all citizens of a state in which there is no scientific philosophical upbringing and education are bad, selfish people. Among such citizens there may be unselfish people. However, such people are not directly products of upbringing and education, inherent in such a state, for otherwise it would systematically produce such unselfish people as it systematically produces today, say, people who can solve linear equations.)

6. Substantiation of why Fichte was mistaken in addressing his Rech to the Germans. The reasons why the Russian people can become the first real nation in the history of mankind, including the world-historical role played by Russia in the XX century.

Three lessons from the failure of Fichte's project for the upbringing and education of Germans:

1) speculative-theoretical,

2) practical pedagogical,

3) practical-political (including the fact that the national self-determination of the Russian people does not require either the separation of this people from other peoples of Russia, or the Russification of these peoples).

Where to find


We hope that both the relevance of the topic of the nation itself, as well as the lecturing and writing qualities of the speaker (and their author is inclined to rate them highly) will make it as easy and even pleasant as possible to get acquainted with the original version of this report, the link to which is attached below.

The report at this link is presented in 2 versions:

1) audio and

2) text.

The text contains something that did not fit into the oral presentation, although, perhaps, it will be easier to get acquainted with the audio version and, perhaps, you should start with it.

A.N. Muravyov "Speeches to the Russian Nation"
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  1. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 12 March 2021 15: 08
    +16
    How the author combines this
    a nation is considered to be any set of individuals who have reached civil agreement in the form of a state capable of defending their independence in the fight against other states and to provide for SPIRITUAL interests its constituent citizens

    with this
    in a real nation, all people will be entirely good people, that is, good people, unselfish volley
    1. Bow
      Bow 12 March 2021 15: 44
      +11
      This "pundit" is not able to build logical chains even from a couple of links, judging by the presented material. Therefore, he simply operates from God knows how statements born in the depths of his brain, not giving himself the trouble to monitor at least their mutual coherence.
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 14 March 2021 08: 44
        +1
        So what time do we live? -Koekaklov and commodity-money relations. Copy-paste our everything !!! There was an order for a pseudo-scientific publication, they pulled quotes and paragraphs and voila, the work is ready! And the garbage that it makes no sense.
    2. Terenin
      Terenin 12 March 2021 16: 23
      +11
      Yeah winked , Andrey Nikolaevich dived deeply, especially with such a formulation as

      This means that Russian thought can also become truly national, i.e. truly Russian, only when, with their help, the Russian people become a real Russian nation.
      A. N. Muravyov
    3. businessv
      businessv 12 March 2021 17: 23
      -1
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      How the author combines this

      So there is no contradiction in these statements! If the peoples have reached an agreement to go together towards a common self-serving (i.e., beneficial for everyone, for the entire state) goal, then these people agree and will support each other in this joint endeavor. Philosophy, however! smile
      1. sleeve
        sleeve 12 March 2021 18: 49
        +5
        In principle, having a SINGLE goal implies unselfishness. And yet, yes, polls "educated" because how to achieve without this "general agreement"? But ... The whole question is goal-setting. Is this not a synopsis of fascism with a common goal and universal "unselfishness" in relation to members of their society in achieving it? So the definition rules. Let's agree on values ​​in advance. And then turn the wrong way according to such instructions as two fingers on the asphalt.
        By adopting such a formulation, the nation will have to shape its values ​​beautifully. Then get that agreement and then turn it into a beacon for the rest. Until these values ​​become universal. Doesn't it look like anything? That's right, globalism. Hence the conclusion is that all this is crap ... Not that coat.
        1. ball
          ball 13 March 2021 22: 30
          0
          Quote: sleeve
          In principle, having a SINGLE goal implies unselfishness. And yet, yes, polls "educated" because how to achieve without this "general agreement"? But ... the whole question is goal-setting

          Including the exam, it is necessary to expel and introduce a system of education closer to the truth, the patriots of the Fatherland are again needed ...
          And finally build the Fleet.
          Who will build it?
          My opinion is one of the practical conclusions of a certain proposed philosophy
          1. sleeve
            sleeve 14 March 2021 05: 12
            0
            With the exam, not everything is as obvious as some would like. There are rather two positions: to drive in nails with a microscope and to force a fool to God. It is good as a knowledge testing system. Plus, the rating method of admission completely demolishes corruption and gives chances for admission to "non-traditional" strata of society. In addition, the polling system makes it possible to "layered" information packing: initial, general, private (detailed).
            But what they did to her at the start, literally turning it into a crossword puzzle, is a crime. posing questions and assignments in the exam is the same science. Moreover, this is a real "technical" pedagogy. Now there seems to be a shift in quality improvement. Plus written assignments. judging by the humanitarian part. No, you shouldn't whip indiscriminately on the exam. It was not the fault of the first car that they ran over a pedestrian.
    4. dauria
      dauria 12 March 2021 22: 15
      +11
      How the author combines this


      The author does not combine anything, he just wrote an advertising booklet for the article by A.N. Muravyov "Speeches to the Russian Nation"
      And he gave the link. so there is nothing to discuss here. Go, visit their site "Speculation", read the article, put "likes" there, discuss and so on ... It's a disgusting trick, poke advertisements under the guise of an article. But the VO site has owners, their money and they decide
  2. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 12 March 2021 15: 16
    +7
    Well, Irish means not a nation ... laughing
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 March 2021 00: 56
      +2
      Quote: Sahalinets
      Well, Irish means not a nation ... laughing

      Cats are not human either! laughing:
      Killed the day to be imbued with thoughts in the work of the "advertised" philosopher.
      Much is controversial and irrational.
      Discussing in absentia with Fichte's theory, the Author (Muravyov) misses its initial vulnerability in modern transcription. Thus, it will be an allegory for comparison if we, from the standpoint of modern man's knowledge of astronomy, will smash Thomas Aquinas, a believer in a flat earth on three whales.
      The formation of a single German nation at the end of the century before last and the peoples of Russia have different historical prerequisites. If the German states, according to Fichte's theory, hardly merge into a single nation of the German-Austrian state, then Russia was originally formed by different peoples with different histories and different prerequisites! If the German model presupposes turning back time with the help of a scientific and educational approach, in the territory of Russia the process of state formation occurs naturally. Until the 12th century, it was no different from Western Europe, but then because of the Tatar-Mongol threat to something completely different. Initially, Russia was formed by many peoples and nations in such a variety that for five centuries the religion of Orthodoxy, but not denying other confessions, became a marker of the backbone. In fact, for Fichte, a Pole is not a German and from the outset is a foreign, non-systemic element. For Russia, the Tatar is a bit alien, but his own, which is an integral part of statehood and this applies to all nations. A little different, but when you accept Orthodoxy, you can put on the throne! Semyon Bekbulatov and Boris Godunov are examples of this.
      In fact, I tried to reveal only one facet out of a thousand.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 13 March 2021 02: 16
        +3
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

        Cats are not human either.

        And Ponies are not Horses recourse And Tatar - to the Russian, Friend and Brother! I have many friends among Our Siberian Tatars, I even like to celebrate Muslim holidays with them, they are somehow democratic in Islam ... But, having visited Kazan, I was simply stunned !!! Tatars of Kazan are just beauties (blondes, we have such a rarity) learned that Masha is a friend's wife, Mariam by birth ... Here is an example for Me of Our life and living together (there are no religious prohibitions among children No, Son - considers himself Orthodox, and two Daughters - Muslims good )
        I was in Chechnya after everything by invitation - I liked it very much good The Mosque and the Temple are the House of God, We are all different - and God is one for everyone! Nobody, I repeat, NO ONE said a word that he was baptized in the Mosque! Peace - Peace.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 March 2021 07: 03
          +3
          Alexey completely agrees!
          The difference between a people and a nation is the presence of a state, both Russians and Tatars are imperial peoples. More precisely, collective images based on a language group and the Crimean and Tyumen Tatar are two big differences. In fact, at the present time, the DNA of the Russian and the DNA of the Tatar are porridge-malasha, which is difficult to understand. For the "image" in the case of the Tatars, the marker is negligible - religion. So, there are Orthodox nagaybaks.
          In fact, we have a phenomenon in the Urals. When, for example, a Bashkir can be a Tatar in communication with third parties, but consider himself personally Russian.
          In most cases, in the Urals, the Volga region and Western Siberia, the theme of nationality is of an internal secondary nature. I know a lot of young people who, in the second or even third year of the birth of their first child, began to scratch their turnips, and who are their half by nationality. By the way, the ROC in the Ural region sees a problem in the fact that good friends of a non-Orthodox family can become godparents. Moreover, with "suggestion" from the father, they can force him. Some complain, others go to the parishioners' meeting. Smile - sometimes for one baptism of the godfather !!!
          The argument is plan ....
          In fact, we still live in this mess, where the son of a Tatar and a Bashkir woman will always be Russian. “Why plant a vegetable garden,” said the aksakal of the clan on the occasion of the birth of their third great-grandson. By the way, I'm sure that he and his children are Chingizgids !!!
          I'm not kidding.
  3. Svarog
    Svarog 12 March 2021 15: 25
    +1
    The nation has long been formed and I think there is no need to conduct philosophical disputes on this topic.
    The nation is faced with purely practical tasks .. survival, one of the most urgent, but in order to ensure survival, the nation must decide on the road along which it goes .. now the path of capitalism has been determined for it, its results are quite tangible .. and it is not difficult to assume what will happen to the nation in 50 years ..
    1. businessv
      businessv 12 March 2021 17: 29
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      and it's not hard to imagine what will happen to the nation in 50 years ..
      I think it's the same as today and 50 years before. On this occasion, I like the saying, in view of its relevance to this day: "" Russia will not, and never have had, such haters, envious people, slanderers and even obvious enemies, like all these Slavic tribes, as soon as Russia liberates them, and Europe will agree to recognize them as liberated! After liberation, they will begin their new life, I repeat, precisely by asking for themselves from Europe, England and Germany, for example, a guarantee and patronage of their freedom, and even though Russia will be included in the concert of the European powers, but they are in protection from Russia and will do it. They will certainly begin with the fact that within themselves, if not out loud, they will declare to themselves and convince themselves that they do not owe Russia the slightest gratitude. Maybe a whole century, or
      even more, they will continually tremble for their freedom and fear the lust for power in Russia; they will curry favor with European states, they will slander Russia, gossip about it and intrigue against it. Oh, I'm not talking about individuals: there will be those who will understand what it meant, which means and will mean Russia for them always. They will understand all the greatness and all the holiness of the cause of Russia and the great idea, the banner of which she will place in humanity. But these people, especially
      at first, they will appear in such a miserable minority that they will be subjected to ridicule, hatred and even political persecution. It will be especially pleasant for the liberated Slavs to express and trumpet to the whole world that they are educated tribes, capable of the highest European
      culture, while Russia is a barbaric country, a gloomy northern colossus, not even of pure Slavic blood, a persecutor and hater of European civilization. They will, of course, have, from the very beginning, constitutional administration, parliaments, responsible ministers, orators, speeches. Russia needs to seriously prepare for the fact that all these liberated Slavs will rush into Europe with rapture, before losing their personality they will be infected with European forms, political and social, and thus will have to go through a whole and long period of Europeanism before they comprehend anything in his
      Slavic meaning and in its special Slavic vocation among humanity. "
      F.M. Dostoevsky
      "One very special word about the Slavs, which I have long wanted to say"
      The diary of a writer. September - November 1877
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 12 March 2021 18: 31
        +5
        Quote: businessv
        "One very special word about the Slavs, which I have long wanted to say"

        I hate Dostoevsky.
        I think it's the same as today and 50 years before.

        and 50 years before that and 100 years, the nation multiplied ... no matter what ... and now it is losing 700 tons per year, but only in January 2021, a hundred thousand decreased ... by the end of the year, it will be over a million ...
        This is what should strain and cause anxiety .. but no, demagoguery needs to be diluted .. I cannot call this work philosophy ..
        1. businessv
          businessv 13 March 2021 20: 20
          +2
          Quote: Svarog
          I hate Dostoevsky.

          I did not know him personally, but I treat him as a very talented person, whom the whole world knows. smile The main thing is not who wrote, but what and how! It is written strong and relevant today. As for the extinction of the nation, this worries all thinking people, but unfortunately they cannot influence this process. Until the system breaks down and the welfare state is built, nothing will change.
  4. mark1
    mark1 12 March 2021 15: 34
    +6
    For me, a discovery. that we have Tatar, Buryat and other nations in our country ...
    There are many definitions. what is a nation, but everywhere it is a certain aggregate of citizens of a certain state; a historically established politically independent community of equal and full-fledged individuals (citizens) endowed with a unique national identity.
    Those. there are many nationalities and one nation ... - no?
    1. Avior
      Avior 12 March 2021 17: 53
      +6
      Nationality and nation are not directly related
      A nation is a collection of residents of one country and further according to your post
      And nationality characterizes belonging to an ethnic group united by a common language and origin.
      It may be that people of the same nationality belong to different nations - like the Germans in Germany and in Austria - the nationality is one, but the nations are different
  5. iouris
    iouris 12 March 2021 15: 34
    +12
    You don't have to write - don't write.
  6. Bow
    Bow 12 March 2021 15: 40
    +8
    ... 3) the emergence of a methodically thinking philosopher in the depths of this people

    Oh, this complex of the "rejected messiah" that has ruined more than one generation of the Russian "intelligentsia".
    Their ingenious slogan: "You can - think, you can not - teach others" - for some reason has not found wide approval among our people for a couple of centuries.
  7. nikvic46
    nikvic46 12 March 2021 15: 41
    -1
    To define the Russian nation within a certain framework is to make a mistake. The Russian nation has long been a people, for the reason that many bloods are mixed in it. That is why we have existed for many centuries. This process will be interrupted and the Russian people will come to an end in a hundred years. It all depends on our mind. The Russian people are an alloy of nationalities. And we have nothing to divide within ourselves.
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 12 March 2021 15: 45
    +7
    Speeches to the Russian nation

    Very relevant, right schaz z z ???
    There are creators who live by their labor and create EVERYTHING, including the state and there are those who live at the expense of their labor, parasites ... who do not want to limit themselves to anything !!!
    That is the whole philosophy of our present life ... however, it did not happen yesterday.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 12 March 2021 18: 33
      +4
      Quote: rocket757
      There are creators who live by their labor and create EVERYTHING, including the state and there are those who live at the expense of their labor, parasites ... who do not want to limit themselves to anything !!!
      That is the whole philosophy of our present life ... however, it did not happen yesterday.

      That's right .. everything is much simpler .. but to powder your brains, you need to carry complete nonsense .. maybe someone will bite ..
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 12 March 2021 19: 10
        +2
        Divide and rule! The principle, the topic, the reason, anyone will find, they will be bred like .... not rabbits, but something like that.
  9. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 12 March 2021 15: 46
    +7
    Such philosophizing about the meaning and purpose of nations is a passed stage, chewed and chewed in the 19th century, again all this can be procrastinated only from a complete misunderstanding of the supranational structure of the modern world (one form or another of alliances of different nations represented by both states and small diasporas within viable, developing states), or even not at all a remark of the tendencies of the prevalence of the "buffet" of rights and freedoms over some rigid framework of some kind of "foundations" cut out in granite for nations, repeatedly beaten by time and changes that inevitably happened to even the most persistent and the strong ones.
    Nations are more clumsy than societies shackled by literate laws, even those consisting of different (but at the same time definitely not random) elements - they adapt worse, slow down more when cornering and reflect when you just need to take_and_to do. So all this ideological grave-digging is a waste of time, on the scale of the world game that is being played now, and for which there are no nations - only effective and ineffective models of organization.
    Ours is ineffective, and therefore we need to think about it, and not think cutesy about something "primordial" and some contradictions between the highly spiritual people-creator and the crimson rivers with banks of idiocy, which we rightly riveted and riveted.
  10. apro
    apro 12 March 2021 15: 46
    +7
    Fichte was mistaken in addressing his Speeches to the Germans, for, as the XNUMXth century has shown, the Germans are not capable of becoming a nation, 

    After going through a series of catastrophic defeats. Can you not preserve your unity. Do not self-disintegrate. Although Germany is a young state and originates in 1872. To take a worthy place in Europe and the world. Progressively overcoming obstacles in its path. 3 economy in the world.
    All bourgeois states have a penchant for nationalism if economic opportunities arise.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 12 March 2021 19: 37
      +2
      The third economy is Japan. The first is the United States, the second is the PRC. It's at par. And according to PPP, the first is Chinese and the second is American. The German economy is the fourth in the world in terms of par value after the United States, China, Japan and the fifth in terms of PPP after China, the United States, India and Japan.
  11. BMP-2
    BMP-2 12 March 2021 16: 05
    +8
    I did not understand: why reduce a great people to a dead-end limitation of the nation? And how can this protect against the beginning of the Third World War ???
  12. Thompson
    Thompson 12 March 2021 16: 42
    +5
    The same case when from empty to empty and or mind for reason.
    are not enough for us ancient ukrov?
  13. samarin1969
    samarin1969 12 March 2021 16: 58
    +5
    Russians, as a nation, were born in the village on the Kulikovo field. And they established themselves, with a literary language, identity and a developed economy, in the XNUMXth century.
    As a nation, the Russians survived in November 1941, when they considered whether there would be enough cartridges for all these "Fichtes".
    Well, it makes sense to discuss the "world-historical role" of the Russian nation after the end of the tragedy of Donbass.
    1. apro
      apro 12 March 2021 18: 17
      0
      Quote: samarin1969
      Well, it makes sense to discuss the "world-historical role" of the Russian nation after the end of the tragedy of Donbass.

      And not from the beginning ???
      1. samarin1969
        samarin1969 12 March 2021 18: 29
        +3
        Quote: apro
        Quote: samarin1969
        Well, it makes sense to discuss the "world-historical role" of the Russian nation after the end of the tragedy of Donbass.

        And not from the beginning ???

        It's hard to understand you, Oleg, but the words are interesting. ... If about the "beginning", then this is about cutting fictitious borders within the USSR. Artificial, never existing state formations received an administrative structure. ... The Russian Donbass was handed over to "feed" Ukraine. Here's a start. And about the "end" only the grave of A.B. Mozgovoy.
        1. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 19: 01
          +2
          Quote: samarin1969
          If about the "beginning", then this is about cutting fictitious borders within the USSR. Artificial, never existing state formations received an administrative structure.

          It is clear, once again the communists are to blame ... but the communists did not build national states, but one supranational state, where the main thing was a new ideological project of creating a society of a new type, without religious, national, prejudices, without exploiting surplus value in the interests of private individuals, only for development. society as a whole.
          The division took place mainly for economic reasons, in order to meet the general needs of the USSR.
          You forget that the first attempt to create a Russian national state was made in February 17, and immediately ran into separatist opposition, in which the seemingly Russian territories of Siberia also took part. Communists had to deal with these problems. And they solved this problem with their own methods and created their own state, which stopped the separatist centrifugal forces.
          New time after the destruction of the USSR. Nationality of Russia was born again. And which immediately had the same problems with separatism. Also problems with neighboring territories. But to offer any life-giving prospects for a possible peaceful solution to the problems of conflict of interests there is nothing to offer Russians to former fellow citizens. they are not. also a bourgeois rake. but the Russian bourgeoisie are a little richer. but money in some issues is not decisive. if there are no prospects.
          1. samarin1969
            samarin1969 12 March 2021 19: 13
            +1
            Oleg, the fact that the communists were building a supranational state raises no questions. "international" ... But why did you need "national-territorial" division? Apart from Russophobia, this is difficult to explain.
            1. apro
              apro 12 March 2021 19: 18
              0
              Quote: samarin1969
              Besides Russophobia,

              Communists russophobes ??? boldly.
              Quote: samarin1969
              But why did you need a "national-territorial" division?

              To crush separatist movements, national alliance and delimitation, again in some cases and in economic interests.
              1. samarin1969
                samarin1969 12 March 2021 19: 34
                0
                [quote = apro] [/ quote]
                To crush separatist movements. National allional demarcation. Again in some cases and in economic interests. [/ Quote]
                Well, you failed to crush the "crush" of the nationalists. Kravchuk and Shushkevich simply canceled the "high valor of the regiments" of Russia and are now in the ranks of public politics. But your Bela Kun simply staged a genocide of the Russian people in the Crimea.
                1. apro
                  apro 12 March 2021 19: 47
                  0
                  Quote: samarin1969
                  Well, you failed to crush the "crush" of the nationalists.

                  Why would it be ??? until 1985, these characters did not disturb the Soviet government.
                  Quote: samarin1969
                  Kravchuk and Shushkevich simply canceled the "high valor of the regiments" of Russia and are now in the ranks of public politics.

                  It is not correct to regard these characters as communists. Traitors are reborn. There is nothing communist in their actions.
                  Quote: samarin1969
                  But your Bela Kun simply staged a genocide of the Russian people in the Crimea.

                  And the genocide of the Reds. Does this mean it is not considered ???
                  1. samarin1969
                    samarin1969 12 March 2021 20: 05
                    -2
                    That is, your ideological fathers, Oleg, killed tens of thousands of Russians for the genocide of your people by Ataman Semyonov and Meller-Zakomelsky. Fair enough! I absolutely agree with you! ... But I note that you have confirmed that the Russians and the "communists" have a long history of antagonism. You are for Bela Kun, Uritsky and Zemlyachka, and I am for Kolchak and Gumilyov.
                    1. apro
                      apro 12 March 2021 20: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: samarin1969
                      and I am for Kolchak and the Gumilevs.

                      With what I congratulate you.
                      Quote: samarin1969
                      But, I will note that you have confirmed that the Russians and the "communists" have a long history of antagonism.

                      Why are the communists in quotation marks. What is the hidden meaning?
                      Not too long confrontation. 4 years of civil. And week 91 and week 93.
              2. Tank hard
                Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 10
                +1
                Quote: apro
                Crush the separatist movements. The national alliance does not demarcate. One more time

                Who will push it?
                1. apro
                  apro 12 March 2021 20: 17
                  0
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  Who will push it?

                  I didn't understand your idea ..
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 18
                    +1
                    Quote: apro
                    I did not understand your idea

                    Who will crush separatist aspirations?
                    1. apro
                      apro 12 March 2021 20: 28
                      +1
                      In the USSR, the communists pressed on, but in the Russian Federation I don't even know.
                      1. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 35
                        +5
                        Quote: apro
                        In the USSR, the communists pressed on, but in the Russian Federation I don't even know.

                        In the USSR, such republics as Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and others were created. The result is known. There is no USSR, but there are countries that have never existed in the history of the world. And no one there (the USSR) "crushed" anyone; on the contrary, they supported national aspirations, which later resulted in "independence" and the accompanying nationalism. But there was no Russian republic either then or now. request
                      2. apro
                        apro 12 March 2021 20: 40
                        -1
                        In the USSR, the communists created what they considered necessary, labor and weapons.
                        Today, other characters are in power .. so they have cards in hand. Russians get what you see fit.
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        But there was no Russian republic either then or now.

                        And the Russian Federation is not considered ???
                      3. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: apro
                        And the Russian Federation is not considered?

                        Where is there mention -Russian? By the way, the word considered is written without a soft sign. Although, I do not know how with this in (in) Ukraine or Canada. laughing
                      4. apro
                        apro 12 March 2021 20: 46
                        +2
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        Where is there mention -Russian?

                        And what is not ??? and for what in 1991 the Russians shed blood ...
                        Quote: Tank Hard
                        Although, I do not know how with this in (in) Ukraine or Canada

                        In the Amur province.
                      5. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 48
                        +1
                        Quote: apro
                        In the Amur province.

                        You need to know the language ... wink
                      6. apro
                        apro 12 March 2021 20: 49
                        -3
                        And so it goes ..
                      7. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 49
                        +2
                        Quote: apro
                        And so it goes ..

                        What are you, such is the state ... request
                      8. apro
                        apro 12 March 2021 20: 50
                        -1
                        Which state ???
                      9. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: apro
                        Which state ???

                        What are you. laughing
                      10. apro
                        apro 12 March 2021 20: 53
                        -1
                        Good luck on the bends.
                      11. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 54
                        -1
                        Quote: apro
                        Good luck on the bends.

                        Tailwind. laughing
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 13 March 2021 09: 08
        +3
        Quote: apro
        In the USSR, the communists created what they considered necessary, labor and weapons.

        Those. forcible Ukrainization of Little Russia by the communists, is this not the way to create a national entity within the Union? The forced squeezing of Russians out of Central Asia in the 20s, is this not at all what we think? Creation of Soviet Central Asian republics, is it not violence against ordinary people? After all, the enmity between the Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kazakhs, the enmity of all of them to the Russians was sown just then! Moreover, at the household level, it smoldered until the end of the 80s and as soon as a spark was thrown, everything immediately flared up!
        Chechnya ... in August 1917, Bolshevik agitators promised the fighters of the Wild Division milk rivers and jelly banks, and they praised the future wonderful life of the highlanders so much that they immediately rushed from St. Petersburg to their mountains to build happiness in each individual village ... but it did not work out , the Soviet government came and said ... basta karapuziki, we are now in power! And Chechnya was on fire with Ingushetia and part of Dagestan, until Stalin got tired of it! Someone naively believes that the Nokhchi, Ingush, Dargins in the hungry steppes of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan loved the Russians with all their hearts?
        Quote: apro
        The communists did not build national states, but one supranational state, where the main thing was a new worldview project, the creation of a society of a new type, without religious, national, prejudices, without the exploitation of surplus value in the interests of private individuals, only for the development of society as a whole.

        Firstly, why did the 5th column in the passport exist in a supranational state?
        "new ideological project" ... laughing the same feudal system only turned upside down!
        "without religious.national.prejudices"
        As there Lenin-We must fight religion. Is this the ABC of all materialism and, therefore, Marxism? And what do we actually see? Basically Orthodoxy was destroyed! Islam, Judaism and the Protestant sextant, on the contrary, received privileges!
        "without exploitation of surplus value in the interests of private individuals." We will famously erase the NEP and cooperatives from our history, but where will we go about the private interests of the party nomenklatura?
      3. apro
        apro 13 March 2021 09: 31
        0
        Quote: Serg65
        Those.

        They did what they thought was necessary.
        You can do better. Do it.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 12 March 2021 17: 05
    -1
    Speeches to the Russian nation
    Yes ... VO is degenerating, there are only pages of Stankov's unprinted book left to discuss ...
  • parusnik
    parusnik 12 March 2021 17: 21
    +5
    Only one vporos, and what to do with the other 150 nationalities? Russians to Russians, Bashkirs, to Bashkirs, etc. Hello, disintegration of the country laughing
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 12 March 2021 19: 15
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      Only one vporos, and what to do with the other 150 nationalities? Russians to Russians, Bashkirs, to Bashkirs, etc. Hello, disintegration of the country laughing

      good good The message of the article is not clear. I, a Tatar, somehow do not particularly care about what nationality the people around me, I am worried about the situation around the country, the desire of neighbors to make the country, and therefore each of us in trouble. The subversive activities of grant-eaters are also outraged. We do not underestimate external threats, one of them is not directly related to the national issue, but this is very serious:
      "Again about COVID-19 as the main political problem!
      Or - all coincidences are random, as they say now :))
      "The Chinese Biological Laboratory in Wuhan is owned by GlaxoSmithKline, which (quite by accident) is owned by Pfizer, which (quite by accident) produces a vaccine against a virus that originates from a biological laboratory in Wuhan, and the latter is funded by Dr. Fauci (quite by accident), who does her advertising.
      GlaxoSmithKline is (coincidentally) run by Black Rock Finances, which (quite by accident) manages the finances of the Open Foundation Company, which (coincidentally) services the French insurance company AXA
      It just so happened that Soros owns the German company Winterthur, which (quite by accident) built a Chinese laboratory in Wuhan, and was bought by the German insurance company Allianz, its shareholder (by coincidence) is Vanguard, who (quite by accident) is a shareholder in Black Rock. which (coincidentally) runs central banks and controls about a third of global investment capital.
      Black Rock is also (quite by accident) the main shareholder of MICROSOFT, which is owned by Bill Gates, who is (coincidentally) a shareholder in Pfizer, which (as you may recall, sells this miracle vaccine) is now (quite by accident) the first from WHO sponsors ... "
      PS Doesn't it remind anyone of English folk poetry (translated by Marshak): "The house that Jack built"? "This is for those who doubt whether to vaccinate or not. It does not matter what nationality we are, for our neighbors we are all Russian, although to me more likely .
      Russians
      hi
  • tatra
    tatra 12 March 2021 17: 21
    +4
    There are so few comments, because it is not clear what to discuss, the article is completely meaningless. The Soviet and post-Soviet period proved that nationality is not a community of people, people of the same nationality can be both patriots of their people / nationality and enemies.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 12 March 2021 19: 59
      -5
      Quote: tatra
      There are so few comments, because it is not clear what to discuss, the article is completely meaningless. The Soviet and post-Soviet period proved that nationality is not a community of people, people of the same nationality can be both patriots of their people / nationality and enemies

      Yeah, you have one nationality - a communist. However, not all peoples agree with this. repeat
  • fiberboard
    fiberboard 12 March 2021 17: 25
    +5
    An excellent article, I will not read the opus "Speech to the Russian Nation" itself, I am afraid I will not master it. Now I understand why psychiatrists have the highest number of suicides.
  • populist
    populist 12 March 2021 17: 26
    +1
    Bullshit. Any people is a nation, and any nation is a people.
    The introduction of the concept of a nation was needed in order to disguise the assimilation of different peoples on the territory of the bourgeois states into one people with the priority of the leading people. As was the case, for example, in France or Germany.
  • businessv
    businessv 12 March 2021 17: 32
    -1
    Quote: mark1
    Those. there are many nationalities and one nation ... - no?

    Exactly! smile
  • Engineer
    Engineer 12 March 2021 17: 57
    +1
    An article on a normal, relevant topic, unfortunately, everything is hopelessly spoiled by delusional thoughts and ideas.
    Fichte was mistaken in addressing his “Speeches” to the Germans, for, as the XNUMXth century has shown, the Germans are not capable of becoming a nation, being inclined not only to nationalism, but even to Nazism. The key role of real philosophy and real art in the upbringing and education of a real nation.

    The Germans have long become a nation - with their own national state already in the 19th century, the Russians never had their own national state.
    The inclination towards nationalism is the natural state of any nation in a certain period of history. We must look at the time and degree. By the way, there are different types of nationalism, for example cultural. It was nationalism that made England England and Japan Japan. Although it is currently a largely obsolete concept.


    Substantiation of why Fichte was mistaken in addressing his Rech to the Germans. The reasons why the Russian people can become the first real nation in the history of mankind, including in the world-historical role that Russia played in the XX century.

    Some kind of addict delirium

    5. If a person brought up not on the basis of national education, for the most part, although he could be outwardly harmless and even useful person, still remained selfish inside himself, then in a real nation all people will be entirely good people, that is, good people , unselfish will.


    Tales from the Vienna Woods

    practical-political (including the fact that the national self-determination of the Russian people does not require either the separation of this people from other peoples of Russia, or the Russification of these peoples).

    Sitting on two chairs? Well, for a modern political scientist the norm.

    PS At present, any sane discourse on this topic is complicated by amendments to the constitution and amendments to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
    1. north 2
      north 2 12 March 2021 19: 43
      +2
      but I doubt that the current German state with 10% of Arabs, Negroes and other Muslims for the Germans is too strong a national German state ... it was joined by Turks, Arabs, Negroes and other Muslims there.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 15
        0
        Quote: north 2
        but I doubt that the current German state with 10% of Arabs, blacks and other Muslims for the Germans is very much a national German state

        And in the Russian Federation, how about this?
  • north 2
    north 2 12 March 2021 18: 40
    -1
    After all, the right forces in the politics of states lead to nationalism, just as the left forces in the politics of states lead to communism. And 200 years ago, under Ficht, there were no left forces capable of leading the politics of states to communism, then this bicycle with the steering wheel turned to the right is then I drove in a circle ...
    But the definition that the national self-determination of peoples, so that these peoples are not dragged into the Third World War, this definition should be addressed to Russia and all the peoples that live in Russia. Be proud, Russia, that you are the only country in the world that has preserved in your state so many nationalities and peoples, their traditions, their faith and culture, which help the great Russian people to be strong and collectively protect Russia from any external threats. Be proud, small peoples of Russia, that you long ago decided to be under the wing of Russia, and only because you did not suffer the fate of the Indians of North America or the aborigines of the Amazon Delta
  • Force multiplier
    Force multiplier 12 March 2021 19: 32
    +6
    I regret to notice that materials consisting of an incoherent set of words are becoming the norm on the site. First, the opuses of one person on the theme of the Second World War in the "history" section Now we have reached the Russian nation. At first, comments can be typed in this way. And in the future? Against the background of primitive portals of tank players and "schizomilitarists", VO managed to maintain a high intellectual level. It will be a pity if the site degrades
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 12 March 2021 19: 57
      +2
      Quote: Force Multiplier
      Now we have reached the Russian nation. At first, comments can be typed in this way. And in the future?

      In the future, the Russian people are "dying out". Without this people, the prospect of the Russian Federation as a separate and independent state is sad. Most likely it (the state of the Russian Federation) will cease to be. IMHO.
  • xorek
    xorek 12 March 2021 19: 36
    -5
    In my opinion, just chatter ... Russians are a state of mind and it has been proven many times already .. What are you all picking in our souls, trying to find the shutdown button? Useless "gentlemen" ..
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 12 March 2021 19: 53
    -2
    У русских нет своей республики в составе РФ, у русских не было своей республики в СССР.[media=https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B2_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B5_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8] У них есть. Почему так?
    After all this - the article "nothing"
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 12 March 2021 19: 59
      +1
      the Russians did not have their own republic in the USSR.

      And what was the RSFSR then?
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 02
        -1
        Quote: Aviator_
        And what was the RSFSR then?

        And where is the Russian republic, or at least autonomy? Take a look at the composition of the RSFSR.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 12 March 2021 20: 15
          +2
          The last letter in the abbreviation "RSFSR" means "Republic". Or do you think that the republics are exclusively mono-national? It's a delusion.
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 17
            0
            Quote: Aviator_
            Or do you think that the republics are exclusively mono-national? It's a delusion.

            How many Russians are there in Chechnya and how many Chechens are there in Moscow? Oh, but this is a delusion ... laughing
            By the way, the RSFSR is the Russian Federation now, in fact.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 12 March 2021 21: 07
              -1
              How many Russians are there in Chechnya and how many Chechens are there in Moscow?

              Do you propose to deport all foreigners from Moscow? A bold statement. True, not so long ago they succeeded in Kondopoga - but the scale of the cities is incomparable.
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard 12 March 2021 21: 19
                0
                Quote: Aviator_
                Do you propose to deport all foreigners from Moscow?

                And where is my proposal on this matter? Don't wishful thinking. As much as you would like it. So how many Russians live in Chechnya? wink
                By the way, Kondopoga is Karelia. Karelians are such people. Karelia is such a republic. Karelians, they are not Russian, however. request
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 12 March 2021 21: 31
                  0
                  By the way, Kondopoga is Karelia. Karelians are such people. Karelia is such a republic. Karelians, they are not Russians, however

                  There is only a trifle left - to find out how many Karelians are in Kondopoga.
                  Again, what does the list of Chechens in Moscow and Russians in Grozny have to do with it? Before the extermination of Russians in the early 90s, there were a lot of them there.
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 12 March 2021 21: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    A trifle remains - to find out how many Karelians are in Kondopoga

                    There is, but not the essence, the point is. that there is a republic, regardless of the number of "indigenous people". Why don't the Russians?
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    Before the Russians were cut out in the early 90s there were a lot of them.

                    Who cut them out then? Aren't the Martians a case? wink
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 12 March 2021 21: 37
                      0
                      Who cut them out then? Aren't the Martians a case?

                      This is the legacy of Khrushchev Kukuruzny. It was impossible to return these fascist accomplices back.
                      1. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 21: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        This is the legacy of Khrushchev Corn

                        This is genocide.
                        I will not comment on the second part of your statement, you are not careful in your statements, and this is punishable by some and sometimes. But I was always bitter. The state exists and the people still exist, but there is no republic. What, not worthy? However, do not answer., Evil takes ...
                      2. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 12 March 2021 21: 46
                        +1
                        So you call the elimination of any ethnic organized crime genocide.
                      3. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 12 March 2021 21: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        So you call the elimination of any ethnic organized crime genocide.

                        You did not understand me, however. sometimes it doesn't make you angry, it makes you happy.
  • Vlad world
    Vlad world 12 March 2021 20: 37
    0
    Read this. The author has no idea at all about the Nation and Nationality, the People and the Nationality. Especially touched about the Tatar Nation. For information, according to the ethnographic expedition of Kazan, I repeat the Kazan University in the European territory of Russia 33 Tatar languages. Alas, only a few people know some languages. Even for the people, the language is One.
    About the definition of a nation by one person, I have no normal words, and I do not use mat in my correspondence. Yes, from the beginning, the Bolshevik-communists "Soviet people" gave birth, it did not work out.
    So now they are trying to give birth to the "Russian people". With this definition of the nation.
    For the information of the author - Russia Mono-national country --- One nation Russian. 80% or more. By all international standards and definitions. Others are peoples, nationalities, or at least nationalities.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 12 March 2021 20: 46
      +2
      Quote: Vlad-world
      Russia Mono-national country --- One nation Russian. 80% or more.

      Already a persistent feeling that no. And about 80% is probably too much ... Many have died ... hi
      1. Vlad world
        Vlad world 12 March 2021 22: 29
        +3
        There are sensations and there are statistics. And such feelings are so because they are trying to replace the Russians with others and "import" them is practically unlimited. And such as the author and similar philosophical grounds for this matter bring. Under the "birth" of new "Russians".
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 13 March 2021 08: 56
          +2
          Quote: Vlad-world
          There are sensations and there are statistics

          Statistics is such a thing that can be easily adjusted to the wishes of some, especially if they are interested in it or are ready to be "deceived". Here for a long period of time it was broadcast (and they called some statistics) that in the Russian Federation everything is not so bad with demography. Although even in the last century, academician Kapitsa shouted even from the TV screen that with the demography in the country, not even grief, but quite a disaster. For the rest, I will not argue.
          1. Vlad world
            Vlad world 13 March 2021 16: 45
            0
            Who is interested !!! Are our liberals russophobes interested in showing that there is only one Russian nation in Russia. But even though it is like a sickle in one place for them, you can't really argue against the facts in statistics. So we have to blow out "new" definitions of a nation to please our "friends". And the fact that with demography is bad so it is still with the USSR. You can trace the cartoons what kind of propaganda and at what time was going on. For example - a gray hare with its 12 hares and Holidays in Prostokvashino. Yes, and there was a hiss in the back of many children - they gave birth here - there was.
          2. ball
            ball 13 March 2021 18: 36
            +1
            Quote: Tank Hard
            Quote: Vlad-world
            There are sensations and there are statistics

            Although even in the last century, academician Kapitsa shouted even from the TV screen that with the demography in the country, not even grief, but quite a disaster. For the rest, I will not argue.

            It is necessary at least to nationalize the production of vodka, so that the people do not die out ... but on any tequila, whiskey, etc., a big sanction should be imposed, the import banned, let the enemies get drunk
            1. Vlad world
              Vlad world 13 March 2021 20: 49
              -1
              This is not necessary. With the nationalized production of vodka, consumption grew 5 times faster than population growth. Party and government policy.
              At the moment, consumption is regularly falling and the Nation is sobering up. In 2018, per capita consumption of alcoholic beverages fell lower than in France. WHO data.
            2. Tank hard
              Tank hard 13 March 2021 20: 51
              +1
              Quote: ball
              It is necessary at least to nationalize the production of vodka

              Your pocket, or what? All these producers of alcohol and cigarettes pay such taxes (while remaining in profit) that all states of the world turn a blind eye to the production of this poison. But this is everyone's business. I have smoked since I was 17, I quit when I was 30, this year I will be 48 years old, I have not smoked for 18 years. So. that everyone can not smoke, drink, or consume.
  • 123456789
    123456789 12 March 2021 21: 20
    0
    Nothing unites the nation like an order Not one step back ... soldier
  • north 2
    north 2 12 March 2021 21: 29
    +1
    Quote: Tank Hard
    Quote: north 2
    but I doubt that the current German state with 10% of Arabs, blacks and other Muslims for the Germans is very much a national German state

    And in the Russian Federation, how about this?

    but in the Russian Federation this is bad too. After the destruction of the USSR, 20 million Russians and about the same number of loyal Russian-speaking former citizens of the USSR remained outside the Russian Federation. But after the Yeltsin era, Russia was flooded with tens of millions of Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kyrgyz, Kazakhs. who barely speak Russian. And how many Chinese also poured into Russia. And how did Islamic fundamentalism develop? And in Donbas, thousands of Russians and people devoted to the Russian World are dying. And in the constituent entity of the Russian Federation, in Chechnya, because of security, tens of thousands of Russian families will return, who left everything there and had to flee from death. Who lives there today in their houses. And what about the gold mines, which are controlled by the Chechens and the Georgian and Azerbaijani thieves in law. And as with the SOBR and OMON fighters and from the police itself in Chechnya, whose personnel consists in fact only of Muslim Chechens. Isn't it bad at
    Russia and for Russians in Russia and for the abandoned millions of Russians and devoted Russian-speakers outside the Russian Federation. Yes, there were times in the Russian Empire when Chechens even guarded the Russian Tsar. But that was when Russia was strong and they did not doubt that strength. And at the beginning of the Second World War, the Chechens doubted the strength of Russia and deserted to serve Hitler. Then, after the Victory, they again felt the strength of Russia and until the Yeltsin times they walked on line. Under Yeltsin, they again doubted the strength of Russia and staged a massacre of Russians and a war against Russia.
    The question remains, what kind of Russia do they consider now, if the Russians do not return to Grozny, founded as a fortress of Russia and the Russian world by the ancestors of those Russians who had to leave this Russian fortress because of the weakness of Russia under Yeltsin, What, and still Russia is so weak that Chechens still doubt its strength? Or maybe it's also the indemnity that Russia is paying to Chechnya in this form? The Russians out of Chechnya, and the Chechens, please go to Moscow and St. Petersburg and to control the gold mines ...
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 12 March 2021 21: 58
      +2
      Quote: north 2
      but in the Russian Federation this is bad too

      I won't even argue with you. hi
      1. north 2
        north 2 12 March 2021 22: 47
        +1
        a reasoned dispute is always acceptable and a reasoned opinion of the opponent helps to understand whether my thoughts are right or wrong. So we are getting closer to the truth ... By the way, if there were reasoned disputes and they would be heard by opponents when discussing the latest changes to the Constitution of Russia, and as a result of these arguments, the role and significance of the Russian people would be specifically and clearly defined in the Constitution, and even metaphysically of the Russian World in the state of Russia, then we would not now need to write and read in a half-secret, in a half-word, between lines, in hints about the place of the Russian people in modern Russia. In my opinion, this Yeltsin Constitution should not have been supplemented with amendments, but completely changed. This can still happen after Russia has resolved the issue of Russians and the Russian World in Donbass. What is your opinion, after all, in a reasoned dispute, truth is born ...
  • Dudin Artyom
    12 March 2021 23: 59
    0
    Dear fellow citizens, good afternoon!
    I will not respond in a targeted manner, at least in order not to provoke a transition to personalities. I will answer, in general, what seemed essential to me in your comments.

    Firstly, a certain part of the commentators for some reason began to call my note "article", that is (if we mean the original Latin statutum, "put", "established") by revealing some of my thesis. Dear! I wrote in the annotation of the material that he himself is only an annotation! That is, a concise description of some other material. Therefore, it makes no sense to judge the coherence or incoherence of my thoughts until you get acquainted with the material that I am annotating: what if it contains something that you still do not understand, but understand that, you would admit my annotation is not so incoherent ? Until you read (listen to) the original, you will not know. Therefore, I will not respond to all those comments that express something, the answers to which are already contained in the report to which I refer. (For an anecdote: how others attack the annotation without reading the annotated one, and the responsible persons of one foreign-language scientific journal, without looking, published an article by one recognized specialist in which he, as his co-author, entered his dog (Galadriel Mirkwood - the name of the dog): : //rupress.org/jem/article-pdf/148/1/84/1089395/84.pdf)

    Secondly, according to the comments, which express what the report may not cover sufficiently. 1) Concerning the unity of values: yes, it is true that selflessness means unity of purpose. Only classical philosophy (from Thales to Fichte, in any case), as far as I know, says that this goal is not something arbitrary, established by people, but some original universal law of being, or truth... The point, ergo, is not to "train" everyone to the same values, but to know the truth. Fichte, as far as I can tell, allows you to achieve a sufficiently thorough knowledge of it, although, perhaps, not yet quite sufficient (yes, I am aware that now many people can laugh at the very idea that the truth is knowable, but, I note that this reaction itself is a product of philosophy (Neoplatonism) and - through Neoplatonism - of historical Christianity and the experimental science associated with this Christianity, that is, this position is not something taken for granted, it once arose and cannot when something will not disappear). 2) In any case, we are talking about the fact that the philosophical way of thinking is a certain stage in the development of the human spirit in general. The achievement of this method, accordingly, means a certain level of development. However, although this level is in some way high, this does not mean at all that it can be inherent only in any particular individual. For example, before Thales of Miletus (by the way, the first philosopher, if we bear in mind the Greek character of the word φιλοσοφία), there were no mathematicians in the world who could not just count and measure all kinds of quantitative parameters (such were also before Thales, in Babylon, in Egypt, say), but exactly prove your thoughts on the quantitative laws of phenomena. Then he was the first and only one. At the same time, astronomy began to appear in the modern sense, geography (among the student of Thales, Anaximander). This is beginning to modify the Greek religion, which can no longer easily be as naive as it used to be. That is, mathematics, which first appeared only with Thales, begins to change society. After a comparatively short time of such proof mathematicians in Greece, apparently, there are already quite a noticeable number. Today they are much more noticeable. Roughly the same can be expected from scientific philosophy: at first in some people only one such person inevitably appears, but this does not prevent that tomorrow there will be 100 such people. You just need to systematically educate them. 3) About whether we are (Irish, Germans, Tatars, etc.) nation: the very Latin word natio is literally translated as "people" (from nascor - "I am born"). In this sense, one might think that the very problem of how a people can become a nation is a fiction. After all, as if the whole difference comes down only to the fact that one and the same thing is called so in one language, and differently in another. In fact, as I understand it, the use of the Latin natio is a kind of technical term: in this way we denote a human community that is not just somehow spontaneously, more or less unconsciously was born, but exactly one that made itself, entirely purposefully, what it truly should be. In other words, she made herself a community based on the scientific knowledge of her own essence. And now the question: have you met somewhere unconditionally proof that, say, Russians are truly this and that? I personally, if, perhaps, not count one very small circulation and little-known book on the philosophy of history, have not met. Nowhere. But every day I come across subjective assurances (that is, unsubstantiated opinions): some assure that our essence is Orthodoxy, others are communism, others are some kind of sovereign democracy, others are some kind of union of Slavs, etc. Yes, for God's sake, let everything this, and at once! You just prove that this is exactly the case! You can not? Then, in any case, you are not talking about a nation in the sense I have indicated above.

    In any case, I would like to read the comments from those who would have read the report of A. N. Muravyov. I posted a link to it for advertising purposes, of course. Only advertising of classical philosophy in general and the understanding of the problem in the text of the report in particular. Nowhere else (in the article, for example) the text of the report on the Web, it seems, is not presented. Perhaps in some monograph. But I don’t know if it’s online. And who will read it here?
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 13 March 2021 09: 36
      +1
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      In any case, I would like to read the comments from those who would have read the report of A. N. Muravyov.

      I read it there-
      I will refer to another reasonably thinking person. The outstanding musician of our time, John Lennon, opposed in 1969 the radicals who suggested first understanding what was wrong in the world, and then mercilessly destroying it,

      I remembered what this "outstanding musician" did sometimes -
      John began to frequently bring Yoko to The Beatles rehearsals, breaking the band's unspoken rule of not letting strangers into the studio. Because of this, the musicians felt uncomfortable, and tension within the group increased.

      For a long time, the Lennons were on the verge of expulsion from the United States in connection with drug possession charges [8].

      Is it on such examples that Muravyov suggests raising a nation ?!
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      Then, in any case, you are not talking about a nation in the sense I have indicated above.

      Well, if in your opinion (I will not argue) the people are not a nation, then how will the Russian nation be formed if the Russian people are constantly shrinking. if the Russian people cease to be, then who will the "Russian nation" consist of?
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      Firstly, a certain part of the commentators for some reason began to call my note "article"

      You have a comment on your "promotional note, almost like an article." Why post such a note in order to write such a comment on it.
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      I posted a link to it for advertising purposes, of course.

    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard 13 March 2021 11: 25
      0
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      Nowhere else (in the article, for example) the text of the report on the Web, it seems, is not presented.

      I have to admit. Muravyov's article is very interesting, on the whole I liked it.
    3. populist
      populist 13 March 2021 23: 36
      0
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      at first in some people only one such person inevitably appears, but this does not prevent that tomorrow there will be 100 such people. You just need to systematically educate them.

      Dear Artyom, if you have a desire to increase the number of understanding people from 1 to 100, from 100 to 100 thousand, then write a short article "The method of educating the nation according to Fichte-Muravyov" and post it on the website. The discussion on such an article could be more informative. At the end of the article, you should again give a link to Muravyov's lecture.
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 13 March 2021 23: 34
    0
    The author is right in something, there are many points of view on this object of research ... by the way, Herododt also wrote something similar about the Scythians and other contemporaries. The majority of the population or people simply do not understand that society and the state are different objects, officials and civil servants are already a nation ... and the rest of the subjects or tributaries are the people. The author is right that the nation and the people are political phenomena, at their core - this is the mafia, organized crime groups ..., and, accordingly, hillocks, plowmen, fuckers, terpily. Some owners - others b..lo
  • SVD68
    SVD68 14 March 2021 08: 22
    +1
    Bourgeois philosophy usual for the XIX century. Its meaning is that under the rule of a foreign bourgeoisie, all classes must unite for the purposes of their national bourgeoisie. And then everyone will be fine.
    Because the foreign bourgeoisie is usually stronger, then the bourgeois philosophy of the nation passes into fascism, where the unity of classes in the state is no longer an appeal, but a demand.
  • 1536
    1536 14 March 2021 11: 56
    0
    As in the store: "White top, black bottom?" "Not!" "Will seek." What is the task?
    Maybe it’s enough to search, we need to do something so that the dictum of two centuries ago does not define a person’s life: "Well, how not to please a dear little man! .." Then everything will work out.
  • Dudin Artyom
    14 March 2021 12: 55
    0
    Good afternoon!

    Based on what I noticed in the comments and what I have something to say.

    1) Well, therefore, at least one person still bothered to read the text of Muravyov himself, that is, he got acquainted with the original. This means that it was not in vain that I gave a link to it, which, of course, is gratifying to me personally. It is no less gratifying that this man's comment turned out to be approving. I myself think that Muravyov's text and speech are interesting, informative, and yet I would urge the public not to accept the dog as a co-author, but to patiently get acquainted with the original.

    2) About how much so. Fichte is "ordinary bourgeois philosophy." I honestly can only guess what is meant by this expression. If we are talking about the fact that philosophy as such is only something derivative in relation to the worldview of some special part (class, estate, stratum, group, etc.) of this or that society, then I would propose to adherents of this point of view to solve the following dilemma: the universal is determined by the particular or is the particular determined by the general? If the first is true, then such people may be right (for then we can say that something as special as, say, the bourgeoisie determines the single law of all being). If the second is true, then such people cannot be right (because then the very existence of the bourgeoisie, like the proletariat, etc., is only a certain natural consequence of the universal law of being, which, in relation to spiritual reality at a certain time stage of the existence of this reality gives such special social formations as classes, estates, etc.). If someone wants to insist on the first, then let's put it bluntly: the very structure of the whole world depends on objective social relations, so that both the stars and the females eating their males exist purely in the interests of the proletariat. I personally (as, it seems, Fichte too) am inclined to think that it is precisely the universal that determines the particular, and then Fichte's philosophy must be judged, first of all, by the extent to which it allows this universal to be cognized. If we talk with this so, then Fichte, as far as I understand, is a unique person, since he made a contribution to the history of philosophy: that is, he did such a necessary thing that no one has ever done for the development of philosophy either before him or after him. did and will not do. This contribution consists in the fact that, it seems, for the first time in the history of mankind, he was able to unite reason and reason together (yes, few people here will understand these words, but I must say something like this to clarify my thesis). There were, of course, Fichteans, but Fichte himself was the first and the last in this respect, that is, he was not a Fichtean. (The network has lectures by A. N. Muravyov on the history of philosophy, including on Fichte, if anyone is interested, I can give a link). And in the report of Muravyov there is not a word that, they say, all classes should unite for the purposes of their bourgeoisie. On the contrary, as far as I understand, it is about the fact that the only scientific philosophy (and not, say, class, that is, special consciousness) can act as a unifying basis for all people, and such, all of them special and singular variety will remain... Let's not quote the dog again.

    3) Alas, but I do not have sufficient scientific training to write an article on the education system, with t. Z. scientific philosophy, the adherents of which, as far as I can imagine, are (in some way each in his own way) I. G. Fichte and A. N. Muravyov. Behind such articles there are thousands of hours of preliminary preparation and, I think, a hundred or two to work on the article itself. My time has not come yet. But I could do the annotation, and I did it. If interested, some theoretical understanding by Muravyov of the very essence and course of the educational process of any individual person (spirit) can be found here: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/filosofiya-i-obrazovanie-istoriko-filosofskiy-analiz/viewer The article can to be more difficult to perceive than "Speeches to the Russian Nation", but on the other hand, in it you will hardly find that absurdity about the essence of education, which today lies at the basis of the reforms of the modern Russian school external pumping of the individual with one or another useful or useless information, which does not correspond to such a basic task of education, according to which it should help every person understand who he is in his destiny, to understand from within himself). On the contrary, the content of the article, I believe, is quite consonant with the aspirations of even relatively far from the classical philosophy of the citizens of the Russian Federation.
    1. populist
      populist 14 March 2021 14: 59
      0
      Ah, dear Artyom!
      I read both of your letters to the forum. This is such a feast for the mind. Such a wide range for discussion. I hope you are not an elderly person? They are more touchy. But in the manner of your writing, you are most likely young.
      I would probably dispute all your theses. There are ten of them in each letter. Everything, of course, for the sake of comprehending the truth. But this is a lot. Therefore, the main thing.
      Even without reading Muravyov's lectures, but using the phenomenological method of Edmund Husserl, I can say that Fichte is largely right in his calculations, regarding the German people at that stage. (Teacher of the nation). It can be different with respect to other nations. In Russia, his method will not be used due to national and international peculiarities, and most importantly, because of the incapacity of the authorities.
      And about the development of scientific philosophy. Maybe we won't get into the jungle. Maybe we will confine ourselves to the pragmatism of Charles Pierce and the instrumentalism of J. Dewey. (Joke)
      You have a very high reverence for science (scientific philosophy). The same attitude towards science in general was in the second half of the 19th century. Then science was expected to resolve all issues and resolve all troubles. Even the scientific method was introduced into art. The result is naturalism in literature and painting. However, hopes for science were in vain.
      After my last amateurish and superficial approach to philosophy, I had to conclude that philosophy is a set of time-ranked hypotheses, doctrines, theories, etc. Something in these theories is fair, something crazy, something useful ...
      Different sciences separate from general philosophy as they mature. So, you write, happened to mathematics. This probably happened with Fichte's ideas. These ideas were obliged to form the basis of new sciences - political science, ethnology, political ethnology. Kara-Murza writes that three quarters of ethnological scholars were in the United States in the 70s of the 20th century. Then the USSR collapsed. So everything is very serious.
    2. populist
      populist 14 March 2021 19: 40
      +1
      Quote: Dudin Artyom
      2) About how much so. Fichte is "ordinary bourgeois philosophy." I honestly can only guess what is meant by this expression

      In my understanding (and indeed it is) the term "bourgeois" does not mean censure, but a statement of the time of appearance and the necessity of this philosophy for the new bourgeois states. The full development of capitalism was hampered by various conditions and circumstances inherited from the past. One of these circumstances was the multinationality of a number of advanced capitalist countries.
      Multinationality hindered the development of capitalism within the country. Outside the state, multinationality interfered with the rallying of the entire population to fight other capitalist predators for sources of raw materials, sales markets, and redistribution of territories.
      The new philosophy of the nation justified the transformation from many peoples into a single people, and also provided the tools for such actions. In Germany, this ideology was given by Fichte. In countries where this task was relevant, it was solved. In other states, there was no such task. Thirdly, it could not be solved.
      Of course, elements of this philosophy have been used for a long time by the ruling classes and rulers. But it reached the scientific level only in modern times in connection with an urgent need. This philosophy will be used in the future. Time (conditions for the development of mankind) required and this philosophy appeared and will be eternal.
  • Dudin Artyom
    15 March 2021 18: 07
    0
    Good afternoon!

    Apparently, completing any active discussion of this publication, I will say the following.

    1) I cannot say anything solid about either Husserl, or Peirce or Dewey. Therefore, let those who are sufficiently familiar with the scientific work of these persons judge this. The only thing I will note is that Fichte himself, I believe, would be categorically opposed to take advantage by whatever method for cognizing the truth for the cognition of which his scientific teaching is intended (as in the Russian translation, it seems, the true philosophy he created is called by him). Method (synthetic), from his point of view, as far as I understand, is one, for it necessarily follows from one and only truth. There can be no two methods in this sense. So what still needs to be proved that Husserl's method, if it really is a method, can cognize that unity of infinite and finite thinking, which seems to be expressed in Fichte by the first foundation of all science: I = I.

    Here too: the word "science" itself has more than one meaning. In one sense, it means the empirical science of the New Age, which, taken by itself, = technology (why the invention of all computers, robots, genetically modified products, etc. is called "science", and specialists in this invention are called "scientists "). In another sense, it means theoretical knowledge of certain objects of nature or the spiritual life of people (as far as I understand, Hegel's "Philosophy of Nature" tried to become an example of such a science). In the third sense, "science" can be understood as the knowledge of an infinite subject, the only example of which, as the same Muravyov says, is only Hegel's "Science of Logic", and the first who more or less clearly outlined the very concept of such a science was, it seems, Plato, who spoke about dialectics (Kant, Fichte and, possibly, Schelling, speaking of transcendental philosophy, more or less approached the creation of such a science; however, we find some concept of such a science in modern times already in Leibniz). So, speaking about scientific philosophy, I, generally speaking, mean science, first of all, in the third of the indicated senses. (The other two, apparently, are only derivatives.) Did someone see after Hegel's death that such a science of thinking was somehow intelligibly disseminated in societies? Yes, science in the first sense, especially in the 20th century, was in great demand, but again - as a technique, like the creation of bombs, missiles, tanks, etc. Science in the second sense, perhaps, was also somehow presented (perhaps Einstein or Heisenberg), but much more modest. As one nuclear physicist I know with about 50 years of experience in scientific work, the main problem of modern physics is that it really does not know anything: “Everything that we know today,” he said, “is some scraps ". This is a summary of experimental science. But this is not a scientific philosophy.

    2) According to Fichte's “ideology” supposedly suitable for Germany: after all, one must distinguish philosophy itself as thinking that deals with truth in itself, from the worldview arising from this thinking (which, obviously, refers to “ideology”). Of course, the philosophy of Fichte itself, for some reason, apparently, could not yet arise, say, in ancient Greece: the demands of spiritual development in the ancient world were more modest than during the time of Fichte, and then there was not even a thought that that in our daily life we ​​can fully and completely live correctly, reasonably, on which Fichte seems to be insisting. But the only reason for this is hardly that, they say, a change in objective social conditions (the nature of the productive forces, etc.) led to a change in philosophy. Rather, the internal development of philosophy itself inexorably led to a change in the human race, a particular form of existence of which is the society of the New Time, with the division into the bourgeoisie, the proletariat, etc. (I am not good at political economy, I can be wrong in details). The fact is that human societies themselves are not merely products of nature. They are the products of certain ways of thinking, multiplied by the products of nature. Man is not an animal, he is the subject of thought, and then everything else. Accordingly, a significant change in the modes of thought inevitably entails a change in the forms of social life, even while maintaining the same natural conditions. For example, the appearance of philosophy in the ancient world destroyed the political independence of the ancient Greek city-states and led to their moral decline: such spontaneous, naive societies could not withstand systematically thinking people inside themselves. Another example is the appearance in Russia of writers like Pushkin, Lermontov, Gogol, etc. (who, after all, in their content spoke about the same thing as philosophy - about the absolute) led to the collapse of Tsarist Russia, which could not withstand people inside itself. trying to independently arrange their lives on reasonable grounds, and not on orders from their superiors. What, excuse me, has replaced? Marxism! That is, again, at the very least (badly and poorly, since the USSR still could not resist), but a scientific understanding of social processes. On the basis of Marxism, like Athena from the head of Zeus, from the head of Marxists, a Soviet society, unique in the history of mankind, emerged at that time. Isn't this "out-of-the-mind society" so sad on Voennoye Obozreniye? But after all, Marxism, as far as I know, proceeded from Marx (he himself, it seems, did not consider himself a Marxist), and Marx - including from Hegel. Here you go: philosophy turns out to be the indirect creator of the 70-year period of Russia's life!

    Actually, if we want to stand and win now, we need a more solid foundation than Marxism, under our social life. Therefore, I would urge, if possible, all of us to look for it.
    1. Dudin Artyom
      15 March 2021 18: 18
      0
      Actually, if we want to stand and win now, we need a more solid foundation than Marxism, under our social life.
      - I mean more durable scientific base. Therefore, I can in no way agree with those who believe that Russian, they say, is just a state of mind, etc. This, you know, before the baptism of Russia was a state of mind, that is, some kind of spontaneous movement of thought back and forth. But after this baptism, the Russian soul began to become a Russian spirit, that is, so to speak, a soul knowing itself, trying to determine its place in the universal arrangement of the kingdom of God on Earth. Now, bearing in mind our history and the history of mankind in general, we already need to understand ourselves not just in the language of analogies as "children" of the "god-father" (why not "mothers"?), Etc., but to understand ourselves in a purely scientific language. What is the absolute necessity of our existence on Earth? I think that only this answer will give us a solid foundation for confident movement forward. And I am glad that some authors on "Voennoye Obozreniye" insist in every possible way that we should now win not by numbers, but mindenion. classical philosophy (not Husserl, as far as I understand) fully supports them in this, and we now hardly use its latest achievements in any way.
      1. ivan2022
        ivan2022 16 March 2021 16: 55
        -1
        Quote: Dudin Artyom
        What is the absolute necessity of our existence on Earth? I think that only this answer will give us a solid foundation for confident movement forward.


        There is no need. From the point of view of religion, God will do without any people. From the point of view of atheism, our society has fully matured to the result it has come to; in peacetime they themselves ... about their country. Was there anything like that in History? Thirty years later, a landslide extinction begins. THE IDEAS YOU WRITE ABOUT ARE USUALLY BORN IN THE PEOPLE. IN THE FORM OF NATURAL PUBLIC MOVEMENTS - PUBLIC PRACTICE. AND ONLY THEN ANALYZED BY THEORETICS. And in our case, there is simply nothing to analyze. The fact that any party created in Russia ultimately degenerates into an "OPG-AUE party" speaks precisely of this. They say that "the fish rots from the head" - so this is already a dead fish so rotting ..... Here's a practical sign of how things are.
        1. Dudin Artyom
          17 March 2021 15: 12
          0
          From the point of view of Christianity, cleansed of Judaism, God needs both individuals and nations in order to open up, for Christianity is a religion revelations... A God who does not need a man is perhaps the god of the ancient philosophers Plato and Aristotle. But this is only a product of a misunderstanding associated with the history of philosophy, that is, it is not yet a true religion. However, I will not say for Judaism.

          In general, I'm not talking about some different points of view, but about a single point of view of science (yes, this cannot but be, from the classical philosophical point of view, and not from the point of view of the empirical history of modern times). And the fact that we have lost the country since peacetime, all the more speaks for the fact that this happened due to some of our internal regularity, and any betrayal (which they love to refer to) was only an external manifestation of this regularity. If we want to swim out today, this pattern must be understood.

          No one prevents scientists from emerging from the depths of the people. Moreover, it seems that we already have such scientists.
          1. place
            place 17 March 2021 18: 18
            0
            Quote: Dudin Artyom
            From the point of view of Christianity, cleansed of Judaism, God needs both individuals and nations,


            I don’t know what God thinks, but probably even if he “needs”, he can still get by, as IVAN2022 writes. I follow, you, too, wrote not about "needs", but about "the absolute necessity of being." This is different. You won't be able to change your shoes on the go. The commentator IVAN is right here - if we take the position of Christianity, then there is no need for Him. And blackmail God "simply"; “Where are you going to go without us?” - better not.

            Although it is among Russian authors that there are such habits. The poet A. Khomyakov spoke about this best of all in the poem "We are the chosen race, we said .....".
            Khomyakov - even in the 19th century, he understood where the dog was buried. The parallel is too obvious between modern Russians and ancient Jews after their betrayal of Christ with the subsequent complete defeat of their state by the Romans.

            As for our scientists, it is worth remembering that in our people the word "authority" does not mean a scientist.
            1. Dudin Artyom
              17 March 2021 19: 05
              0
              I will not support a targeted discussion where there are attempts to get personal.